Date: 10/04/2020 14:14:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1535886
Subject: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

In a strange twist of evolutionary history, the ancestors of modern South American monkeys such as the capuchin and woolly monkeys first came to the New World by floating across the Atlantic Ocean on mats of vegetation and earth. According to a new study, they were not the only primates to make the trip. A fossil find in Peru suggests that a different, entirely extinct family of primates undertook the same kind of oceanic voyage more than 30 million years ago.

On the banks of Río Yurúa, close to the border of Peru and Brazil, University of Southern California paleontologist Erik Seiffert documented a fossil site that contains a mix of the strange and familiar. Here, roughly 32 million-year-old rock preserves the remains of bats, relatives of capybaras, and early New World monkeys. They also found evidence of a second primate group, one thought to have lived only in Africa.

Seiffert and colleagues propose the primate teeth they found in Peru belonged to a now-extinct group of monkeys called parapithecids. To a casual observer, Seiffert says, these primates would have looked somewhat similar to today’s New World monkeys. “It’s only when we look into the details of the teeth, crania, and long bones that we see there are important differences,” he notes, with the arrangement of bumps and troughs on the teeth acting as a reliable guide to which fossil belonged to which family.

Back then, during a time known as the Late Eocene, Africa and South America were significantly closer. The span of the Atlantic Ocean between the two continents measured about 930 to 1,300 miles apart compared to the modern expanse of 1,770 miles. In addition, the buildup of glaciers in Antarctica around that time caused sea levels to drop, making the passage shorter than it is today. During this window of prehistory, the path between the continents was passable by sea.

The type of raft that might have made the journey.
https://youtu.be/_OwfGunvPXA

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/monkeys-raft-across-atlantic-twice-180974637/

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Date: 10/04/2020 14:19:46
From: dv
ID: 1535892
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

This is a pretty big leap on the basis of a small set of evidence

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Date: 10/04/2020 14:22:38
From: sibeen
ID: 1535894
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

dv said:


This is a pretty big leap on the basis of a small set of evidence

But that’s what get you tenure :)

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Date: 10/04/2020 14:29:11
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1535902
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

dv said:


This is a pretty big leap on the basis of a small set of evidence

Teeth are not a small set of evidence, but evolve over millions of years making them one of the best features to determine closely related animals. This I might add is not an opinion of an oddball scientist, but is now the accepted theory. Have a look at the video supplied to see the island type, they are not a few bits of wood locked together. Better still read the article.

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Date: 10/04/2020 14:47:57
From: dv
ID: 1535922
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

This is a pretty big leap on the basis of a small set of evidence

Teeth are not a small set of evidence

Yeah, the Science paper makes clear this is a small set of evidence, just four sets of teeth. You should check it out.

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Date: 10/04/2020 14:55:42
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1535928
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

This is a pretty big leap on the basis of a small set of evidence

Teeth are not a small set of evidence

Yeah, the Science paper makes clear this is a small set of evidence, just four sets of teeth. You should check it out.

Me thinks you are bullshitting again.

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

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Date: 10/04/2020 15:28:43
From: dv
ID: 1535941
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Teeth are not a small set of evidence

Yeah, the Science paper makes clear this is a small set of evidence, just four sets of teeth. You should check it out.

Me thinks you are bullshitting again.

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

Nup. Never do. Four sets of teeth.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 15:37:22
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1535945
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yeah, the Science paper makes clear this is a small set of evidence, just four sets of teeth. You should check it out.

Me thinks you are bullshitting again.

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

Nup. Never do. Four sets of teeth.

But teeth are unique, even one tooth would do. Why don’t you read the article?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 15:41:33
From: Tamb
ID: 1535946
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Me thinks you are bullshitting again.

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

Nup. Never do. Four sets of teeth.

But teeth are unique, even one tooth would do. Why don’t you read the article?


Wasn’t Thingodonta named after only one tooth?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 15:46:09
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1535947
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

Tamb said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Nup. Never do. Four sets of teeth.

But teeth are unique, even one tooth would do. Why don’t you read the article?


Wasn’t Thingodonta named after only one tooth?

Lots of things have been determined by only one or two teeth. Teeth as I have said evolve over millions of years and have unique features. Anyway the identity of these teeth have been determined long ago and are not in question.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 15:49:12
From: dv
ID: 1535950
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

Tamb said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Nup. Never do. Four sets of teeth.

But teeth are unique, even one tooth would do. Why don’t you read the article?


Wasn’t Thingodonta named after only one tooth?

Right but we are not talking about the establishment of the existence of a genus. We’re talking about the development of an intercontinental migration model.
Will wait for rebuttals by others in the field.

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Date: 10/04/2020 15:53:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1535957
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

dv said:


Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

But teeth are unique, even one tooth would do. Why don’t you read the article?


Wasn’t Thingodonta named after only one tooth?

Right but we are not talking about the establishment of the existence of a genus. We’re talking about the development of an intercontinental migration model.
Will wait for rebuttals by others in the field.

Your argument was about a small set of teeth. However I am glad that you have now read the article and can comment more rationally than before, but still ignoring factors that support the argument for rafting. I find you very slippery dv!

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 16:55:01
From: dv
ID: 1535979
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

Tamb said:

Wasn’t Thingodonta named after only one tooth?

Right but we are not talking about the establishment of the existence of a genus. We’re talking about the development of an intercontinental migration model.
Will wait for rebuttals by others in the field.

Your argument was about a small set of teeth. However I am glad that you have now read the article and can comment more rationally than before, but still ignoring factors that support the argument for rafting. I find you very slippery dv!

Fuck, man, this is pretty basic stuff. I read the article before commenting. You should have read it before posting.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 17:02:22
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1535989
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Right but we are not talking about the establishment of the existence of a genus. We’re talking about the development of an intercontinental migration model.
Will wait for rebuttals by others in the field.

Your argument was about a small set of teeth. However I am glad that you have now read the article and can comment more rationally than before, but still ignoring factors that support the argument for rafting. I find you very slippery dv!

Fuck, man, this is pretty basic stuff. I read the article before commenting. You should have read it before posting.

You should keep to trivia and politics that are difficult to question and impossible to pin down. You are a very devious person, where truth is unimportant when your ego is confronted, never liked you and never will.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 17:04:12
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1535991
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Your argument was about a small set of teeth. However I am glad that you have now read the article and can comment more rationally than before, but still ignoring factors that support the argument for rafting. I find you very slippery dv!

Fuck, man, this is pretty basic stuff. I read the article before commenting. You should have read it before posting.

You should keep to trivia and politics that are difficult to question and impossible to pin down. You are a very devious person, where truth is unimportant when your ego is confronted, never liked you and never will.

Where’s Manboob Habib when you need him?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 17:08:57
From: dv
ID: 1535996
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

Seriously. You’ll suffer fewer embarrassments of this kind if you read the source article of this kind.

I’m here to help.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 17:12:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1536000
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

dv said:


Seriously. You’ll suffer fewer embarrassments of this kind if you read the source article of this kind.

I’m here to help.

Unfortunately I don’t think you can help anyone. The silliest thing you have actually claimed to be a genius. Now that is one big ego. :)))

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 17:40:45
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1536012
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Teeth are not a small set of evidence

Yeah, the Science paper makes clear this is a small set of evidence, just four sets of teeth. You should check it out.

Me thinks you are bullshitting again.

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

Yes, I wouldn’t trust this without genetic clocks.

Certain species do travel vast distances on rafts of vegetation but, because of the lack of food and water, that tends to be only cold-blooded and small species.

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Date: 10/04/2020 18:04:31
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1536025
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

mollwollfumble said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yeah, the Science paper makes clear this is a small set of evidence, just four sets of teeth. You should check it out.

Me thinks you are bullshitting again.

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

Yes, I wouldn’t trust this without genetic clocks.

Certain species do travel vast distances on rafts of vegetation but, because of the lack of food and water, that tends to be only cold-blooded and small species.

Here we go. Look for platyrrhine and Ucayalipithecus perdita. (Pronounced just like Eucalyptus?)

If it’s just teeth, it could be convergent evolution.

It’d be quite a long walk from Africa to South America by land bridge, here’s what the world looked like then, Oligocene, 35 million years ago. Though I keep in mind that the Mid Atlantic Ridge was probably above sea level very many times after it first formed.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/04/2020 18:08:36
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1536027
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

I keep reading this as:

‘More Than 30 Million Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America’

Now that’s entertainment!

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Date: 10/04/2020 18:10:20
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1536030
Subject: re: More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America

mollwollfumble said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yeah, the Science paper makes clear this is a small set of evidence, just four sets of teeth. You should check it out.

Me thinks you are bullshitting again.

Abstract

Phylogenetic evidence suggests that platyrrhine (or New World) monkeys and caviomorph rodents of the Western Hemisphere derive from source groups from the Eocene of Afro-Arabia, a landmass that was ~1500 to 2000 kilometers east of South America during the late Paleogene. Here, we report evidence for a third mammalian lineage of African origin in the Paleogene of South America—a newly discovered genus and species of parapithecid anthropoid primate from Santa Rosa in Amazonian Perú. Bayesian clock–based phylogenetic analysis nests this genus (Ucayalipithecus) deep within the otherwise Afro-Arabian clade Parapithecoidea and indicates that transatlantic rafting of the lineage leading to Ucayalipithecus likely took place between ~35 and ~32 million years ago, a dispersal window that includes the major worldwide drop in sea level that occurred near the Eocene-Oligocene boundary.

Yes, I wouldn’t trust this without genetic clocks.

Certain species do travel vast distances on rafts of vegetation but, because of the lack of food and water, that tends to be only cold-blooded and small species.

Please read the article, if not my first post and then watch the video.

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