Date: 13/04/2020 13:24:52
From: transition
ID: 1537720
Subject: attraction/repulsion, anomalies of thought

perhaps a typical conception of magnetism, or conceptualization of a magnet involves that it is a force of attraction, toward a metal like steel for example, or of two magnets north and south poles attract

of course you know also that two like poles repel, still probably under that variation from attraction remains an idea or concept derived from attraction, the idea flipped, your stereotype or fundamental concepts are derived of the notion of attraction. Your cause and effect explanation probably comes from the idea of an attractive force, or force of attraction. The repulsive effects of two south poles or two north poles may be less attractive as the basis of your understanding, or more to the point you may be less inclined to give the force of repulsion equal value in your consideration of the force

now, i’m not really talking about magnets, i’ve used it as an example, and it’s instructive I believe

the phenomena of bias in explaining things in terms of attractive forces, or forces of attraction, I believe is highly distorting, including of human and other animal behavior, it may well disincline explanations that have more power, more explanatory power

right off the bat attractive explanations, and even the attraction to explanations probably have biases

get back to this later

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Date: 13/04/2020 21:47:06
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1538011
Subject: re: attraction/repulsion, anomalies of thought

transition said:

the phenomena of bias in explaining things in terms of attractive forces, or forces of attraction, I believe is highly distorting, including of human and other animal behavior, it may well disincline explanations that have more power, more explanatory power

right off the bat attractive explanations, and even the attraction to explanations probably have biases

get back to this later

Analogy or metaphor? More a metaphor I think. Animal magnetism is not an analogy.

I’ve hear a comic say that what attracts people together initially is the same thing that repels them later.

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Date: 13/04/2020 22:03:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1538016
Subject: re: attraction/repulsion, anomalies of thought

mollwollfumble said:


transition said:

the phenomena of bias in explaining things in terms of attractive forces, or forces of attraction, I believe is highly distorting, including of human and other animal behavior, it may well disincline explanations that have more power, more explanatory power

right off the bat attractive explanations, and even the attraction to explanations probably have biases

get back to this later

Analogy or metaphor? More a metaphor I think. Animal magnetism is not an analogy.

I’ve hear a comic say that what attracts people together initially is the same thing that repels them later.

yeah it’s almost as if a little bit of salt does wonders to enhance the flavour of food, but a lot more and it tastes king disgusting

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Date: 13/04/2020 22:43:34
From: transition
ID: 1538025
Subject: re: attraction/repulsion, anomalies of thought

mollwollfumble said:


transition said:

the phenomena of bias in explaining things in terms of attractive forces, or forces of attraction, I believe is highly distorting, including of human and other animal behavior, it may well disincline explanations that have more power, more explanatory power

right off the bat attractive explanations, and even the attraction to explanations probably have biases

get back to this later

Analogy or metaphor? More a metaphor I think. Animal magnetism is not an analogy.

I’ve hear a comic say that what attracts people together initially is the same thing that repels them later.

did I say something about animal magnetism, whatever that is

perhaps we could start back at the start..

when you first conceptualize a magnet, or magnetism, your most basic ideas of, does it start with attraction, does your primary notion or stereotype involve (mostly) attraction, forces of attraction

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Date: 14/04/2020 10:48:00
From: transition
ID: 1538110
Subject: re: attraction/repulsion, anomalies of thought

magnetism is, by definition, a force of attraction, for most people, the idea sort of centres around two or more things, whatever, being pulled toward each other, and the idea of a repulsive possibility, repulsive force, comes second

a toddler’s first introduction to magnetism, or a magnet, is probably a demonstration or observation of a force of attraction (not sure what that’d resolve to in mentalese, there’s inescapable gravity as an introduction though). A second magnet is needed to demonstrate repulsion, so you know a toddler might get around to putting two fridge magnets together from their own exploring, they can do a lot of exploring, call it toddler physics, proto-physics, toddler science

it’s possible I guess that a toddler’s first experience and most influential experience of a magnet could be one of repulsion, I think though making that happen would require some unusual control over the environment the toddler inhabits, perhaps the fridge door could have another line of magnets fixed to the fridge side that kept the door open rather than seal shut, and a latch, so it sprung open when unlatched. Don’t expect the fridge door seal to seal very well, if the strip magnet’s in that

not sure a magnet could rightly be called a magnet if the experience of it was to generally repel, or always repel, you’d perhaps need rename it repeller. And the force the repellent force perhaps, or change what magnetic means, but if you knew no different you could happily call a repeller a magnet, until perhaps you went to explain it to someone that had the more common experience of attraction, and more commonly agreed word-concept

of course the force of magnetic repulsion is not uncommonly used, defiantly exists in the physics of the world, contrary to the basic idea or primary notion commonly held

anyway, if I could crossover now by mentioning conceptualizing a magnet as having a force of attraction is a conceptualization people are attracted to. Word-concepts can be very useful, people are attracted to useful things. This thread may not be useful for much at all

there are so many things that aren’t really, or entirely as the concept or word-concept may tend to define them, like i’m sitting on a chair, you could say a chair is for sitting on, I might argue it is (for) so you don’t have to stand all the time, or lay down, so there’s something between laying and standing, another possibility

that a chair is for sitting on is perhaps the more appealing explanation, or description. Sit, seat, chair, all makes perfect sense, intuitively maybe

bringing standing and laying into the explanation (of function) sort of wanders off from a simple description, even potentially introduces contradiction, because while sitting you’re not standing or laying (ignoring planking on a single chair, laying across multiple chairs, or standing on a chair to change a light bulb or whatever), yet we’ve all thought while standing at some stage i’ve got to sit down, or maybe heard an older person say that

so i’m wondering what shapes working concepts about things, the forces that shape them

you know if I say look up there’s a bird flying over you might look up, and to do that you instantly employ the idea of down with the idea of up, because up and down are part of the same idea, (derived from gravity, responses to), part of intuitive geometry if you like, for orientation etc, but I ask what happens to sideways, the perpendicular to that line in that flash of automated thinking. It too accompanies the up-down thing, in fact if you look up, down sort of vanishes from view but sideways persists. Imagine though how delayed looking up would be if you started thinking about all the mental processes involved while, so to save from catatonic abstraction the mind tools employ efficient ways

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