Date: 27/04/2020 19:21:28
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1546643
Subject: Colourblindness - Revisted

Buffy and forumers,

You may remember many years ago there was a thread about colour blindness on SSSF? I posted the thread iirc. Curve and maybe Sibeen added some bits about camouflage and how colour blind people aren’t generally affected by what they call jungle blindness. Like a lot of servicemen were.

It occurred to me the other day that maybe being colour blind is a gene from the past for when humans were still hunting in jungles around the world to be able see their prey and predators.

What do you thing about that hypothesis?

My understanding of humans into their future that colours became important in food choices and seeing red was important apparently , for example. Humans have different specialised skills now. What would this not be true for early humans and pre-modern man?

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 19:22:22
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1546644
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

This is very, very detailed. Evolution of colour vision in mammals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781854/

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 19:23:09
From: buffy
ID: 1546645
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781854/

Evolution of colour vision in mammals

(Lucky there were some more ads, hey!)

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 19:23:24
From: buffy
ID: 1546646
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

Ah, beat me.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 19:24:48
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1546648
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

What a day, can sun subone bump me one

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 19:26:35
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1546649
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

buffy said:


Ah, beat me.

Exact same pubmed article. I’m impressed. Reading it now.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 19:34:11
From: buffy
ID: 1546658
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

mollwollfumble said:


buffy said:

Ah, beat me.

Exact same pubmed article. I’m impressed. Reading it now.

We had been in Chat and ms just moved my post here. But she did it before I did it.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 19:53:38
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1546667
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

thanks buffy. just reading through. was kicked off the net there.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 20:13:01
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1546678
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

> The earliest true mammals evolved from therapsid ancestors during the Early Jurassic, somewhere around 200 Ma.

Um, what? I would have put the date either earlier or later than that, depending on whether we talk of last common ancestor of all existing mammals or the divergence date of mammals from sauropsida. But all that begs the question: how do you define a “true mammal” when mammary glands do not show up in fossil records? Pick an arbitrary date?

> All four of the cone opsin gene families emerged at a point early in vertebrate evolution, perhaps as long as 540 Ma

That is very long ago, we’re talking what, ah, Cambrian explosion. “All four”, where we have … only two with a non-functional third in monotones.

> monotremes diverging from other mammals approximately 166 Ma, while marsupial and eutherians subsequently diverged approximately 148 Ma.

That’s shockingly early, comparable with early dinosaurs.

> Rh2 in marsupials … conflicting results from studies.
> the majority of contemporary mammals in containing two types of cone pigment.
> The relative spectral positioning of the cone pigments varies widely among mammals.

Three colour vision is present in several monkeys, by duplication of the LWS pigment group. Not in all monkeys, and not all at the same frequencies. Ditto lemurs.

> Although three (or more) types of cone pigments are common among vertebrates, in eutherian mammals only primates have three cone pigments, and even among them that arrangement is far from universal.
> All contemporary catarrhine primates (Old World monkeys, apes, humans) have two LWS genes that are positioned in a head-to-tail tandem array.
> There is no evidence for evolution of a third cone pigment in any non-primate eutherian mammal.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 20:21:08
From: buffy
ID: 1546683
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

Here is another interesting idea:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1618887/

“Bare skin, blood and the evolution of primate colour vision”

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 20:23:08
From: buffy
ID: 1546684
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

And someone looked at the old idea about spotting fruit being important.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3677335/

“Spotting fruit versus picking fruit as the selective advantage of human colour vision”

(How much reading would you like?)

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 20:31:06
From: buffy
ID: 1546685
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

And food again:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5107980/

“Food color is in the eye of the beholder: the role of human trichromatic vision in food evaluation”

And an oldish paper, but interesting:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1444-0938.2004.tb05053.x

“Ecology and evolution of primate colour vision”

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 20:32:59
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1546686
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

buffy said:


And someone looked at the old idea about spotting fruit being important.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3677335/

“Spotting fruit versus picking fruit as the selective advantage of human colour vision”

(How much reading would you like?)

I think I remember the fruit one about how fruits darken as they ripen.

I will have a look through them all. I stopped and stepped across to reading about Rh2 Opsi .

Reply Quote

Date: 27/04/2020 20:49:14
From: buffy
ID: 1546691
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

Ooh, and here is some much more recent stuff that I hadn’t actually caught up with.

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.tree.2017.09.001

“Evolution of VisualProcessing in theHuman Retina”

And some very interesting research referenced in that paper:

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/9/e1600797

“The elementary representation of spatial and color vision in the human retina”

It seems cones ain’t what we thought they were.

Stopping now. I’m going to bed to read other stuff.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/04/2020 01:26:13
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1546778
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

Question, now fucking gave borkmismnorked

Reply Quote

Date: 29/04/2020 12:38:12
From: Ogmog
ID: 1547502
Subject: re: Colourblindness - Revisted

2 Stories
neither necessarily relevant;

Hunter’s Advantage;
3 couples standing in a bluff
all staring into a deep pool of water.
ALL the men were pointing at several trout
not one of the women saw anything but the surface.

Conclusion:
Apparently Polarized Vision gives males the Hunter’s Advantage
(makes me wonder what gifts evolution has bestowed on the Gatherers)
…possible the ability to spot the ripest (most sugar laden) fruit from a distance(?)

2nd:
Years after the fact, my significant other confided in me that he adopted our cat, Fritz,
because he’d never seen “A GREEN CAT” before!
Conclusion:
Apparently Ted’s colour blindness made him see our Grey/Tan cat as Grey/Green.

I never had the heart to correct him.

Reply Quote