Date: 4/06/2020 22:00:43
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567919
Subject: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

A Finnish research group has found strong evidence for the presence of exotic quark matter inside the cores of the largest neutron stars in existence. They reached this conclusion by combining recent results from theoretical particle and nuclear physics to measurements of gravitational waves from neutron star collisions.

more…

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:02:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567920
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Reckon there’s also a new type of matter in black holes?

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:03:01
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1567921
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Reckon there’s also a new type of matter in black holes?

You’d better go and have a look.

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:07:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567922
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Reckon there’s also a new type of matter in black holes?

You’d better go and have a look.

I’d like to pass a probe through the black holes jets.

From that reverse engineer the jets, figure out what matter it really is.

Unless, unless the jets can be reversed engineered here in a lab somehow…

Could that be possible.?

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:09:36
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1567925
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Reckon there’s also a new type of matter in black holes?

You’d better go and have a look.

I’d like to pass a probe through the black holes jets.

From that reverse engineer the jets, figure out what matter it really is.

Unless, unless the jets can be reversed engineered here in a lab somehow…

Could that be possible.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_jet

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:13:20
From: Michael V
ID: 1567932
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Reckon there’s also a new type of matter in black holes?

You’d better go and have a look.

PMSL

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:24:45
From: dv
ID: 1567945
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Michael V said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Reckon there’s also a new type of matter in black holes?

You’d better go and have a look.

PMSL

I’m going to say… no

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:26:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1567948
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

dv said:


Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You’d better go and have a look.

PMSL

I’m going to say… no

Why can’t I laugh? I thought it a very funny comment.

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:37:17
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567957
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

dv said:


Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You’d better go and have a look.

PMSL

I’m going to say… no

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:42:09
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567962
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Michael V said:

PMSL

I’m going to say… no

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:43:12
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1567963
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I’m going to say… no

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:43:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1567964
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I’m going to say… no

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

black holes contain new types of matter

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:48:44
From: dv
ID: 1567967
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Michael V said:

PMSL

I’m going to say… no

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

that’s entirely believable

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:51:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567969
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:53:49
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1567972
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:



were stars. plus other matter that was never stars. plus other matter that was once part of other stars.

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Date: 4/06/2020 22:59:33
From: dv
ID: 1567975
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Bogsnorkler said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Conventional models do not permit matter to exist in black holes.

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Date: 4/06/2020 23:02:18
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1567979
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

dv said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Conventional models do not permit matter to exist in black holes.

I know this, I was just trying to get Tau to elucidate.

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Date: 4/06/2020 23:04:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567982
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Bogsnorkler said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/06/2020 23:10:52
From: Michael V
ID: 1567987
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

We don’t know.

Check out Chandrasekhah limit and event horizon.

Yes, because the maths are beyond us.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/06/2020 23:13:36
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1567991
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

Just wondering

What if an antimatter black hole was placed next to a positive matter black hole ?

What would happen?

Would the forces repel, attract or annihilate ?

When you place magnets next to each other forces either repel or attract.

What would push a black hole away ?

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Date: 4/06/2020 23:28:13
From: dv
ID: 1567996
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

As far as we are concerned, the universe might as well stop at the EH.

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Date: 4/06/2020 23:41:18
From: sibeen
ID: 1568003
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

dv said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Bogsnorkler said:

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

As far as we are concerned, the universe might as well stop at the EH.

It was a good car for its time, ground breaking some would say, but I think you’re going a bit too far there, dv.

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Date: 5/06/2020 00:21:00
From: Rule 303
ID: 1568012
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

sibeen said:


dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

As far as we are concerned, the universe might as well stop at the EH.

It was a good car for its time, ground breaking some would say, but I think you’re going a bit too far there, dv.

I got an EH sideways once – Fishtailing on a trailer.

True story.

:-)

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Date: 5/06/2020 04:55:47
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1568061
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

A Finnish research group has found strong evidence for the presence of exotic quark matter inside the cores of the largest neutron stars in existence. They reached this conclusion by combining recent results from theoretical particle and nuclear physics to measurements of gravitational waves from neutron star collisions.

more…

We’ve been waiting for this result for as long as neutron stars have been known to exist. Some ten or so years ago, the first diameter of a neutron star was found, but the diameter was not accurate enough to determine whether most of the star was made of neutrons (hence the name “neutron” stars) or quarks. There was also a lot of speculation back then about whether neutron stars could be made primarily of supersymmetric “dark” matter.

Let’s have a look at the technical article.

> A key factor contributing to the new findings was the emergence of two recent results in observational astrophysics: the measurement of gravitational waves from a neutron star merger and the detection of very massive neutron stars, with masses close to two solar masses.

> In the autumn of 2017, the LIGO and Virgo observatories detected, for the first time, gravitational waves generated by two merging neutron stars. This observation set a rigorous upper limit for a quantity called tidal deformability, which measures the susceptibility of an orbiting star’s structure to the gravitational field of its companion. This result was subsequently used to derive an upper limit for the radii of the colliding neutron stars, which turned out to be roughly 13 km.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-020-0914-9.pdf

> The theory governing the strong nuclear force quantum chromodynamics predicts that at sufficiently high energy densities, hadronic nuclear matter undergoes a deconfinement transition to a new phase of quarks and gluons. Although this has been observed in ultrarelativistic heavy-ion collisions, it is currently an open question whether quark matter exists inside neutron stars

Yeah.

> the presence of quark matter is found to be linked to the behaviour of the speed of sound c in strongly interacting matter. If the conformal bound c^2 ≤ 1/3 is not strongly violated, massive neutron stars are predicted to have sizable quark-matter cores.

So the speed of sound inside neutron stars approaches half the speed of light? That’s fast.

Wow, a 3-D graph with perspective. This actually makes sense. The vertical axis is the speed of sound, an unknown. A second axis is pressure, directly related to star mass. The third axis is gamma, whatever that is. A 1.4 solar mass neutron star is hadronic, ie. made of neutrons. A 2 solar mass maximum mass neutron star is too dense to be composed of neutrons.

The paper is theoretical, but there’s a brief reference to observations in the appendix.

> Comparison with recent mass and radius constraints … In general, this kind of qualitative comparison remains largely inconclusive

Oh dear, not confirmed by observation, yet.

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Reckon there’s also a new type of matter in black holes?

You’d better go and have a look.

I’d like to pass a probe through the black holes jets.
From that reverse engineer the jets, figure out what matter it really is.
Unless, unless the jets can be reversed engineered here in a lab somehow…
Could that be possible.?

There’s no real difference between black hole jets and jets from other astrophysical objects. The matter in such jets comes from outside the black hole, just normal matter than has been squeezed, randomised and ejected at high speed. We already have a fair idea what is in these jets, from cosmic rays.

As for reverse-engineering in a lab, that’s a tricky one. It’s not too wrong to say that the jets of matter from a black hole are similar to the jets of matter from particle collisions in the Large Hadron Collider.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:08:27
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568090
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I’m going to say… no

What if a said last week I reckon there’s new type of mater in Neutron stars ?

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

I agree, but I doubt that there is much chance of investigating this hypothesis.

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Date: 5/06/2020 09:15:50
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568094
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

dv said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think there’s a really good chance that there are new types of matter in black holes, and I’m also going to suggest that they are in layers as well.

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Conventional models do not permit matter to exist in black holes.

Isn’t that statement saying the same as:

According to conventional models, all the mass inside black holes consists of new forms of matter

?

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:20:15
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568095
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Michael V said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Bogsnorkler said:

as in solid surfaces to these layers?

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

We don’t know.

Check out Chandrasekhah limit and event horizon.

Yes, because the maths are beyond us.

?

I don’t think the maths have anything to do with it.

We just don’t know how matter (or whatever you want to call it) behaves under those conditions.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:22:18
From: Michael V
ID: 1568098
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

The Rev Dodgson said:


Michael V said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole solid ?

Usually there is some transition zone.

Do black holes have to be mysterious ?

We don’t know.

Check out Chandrasekhah limit and event horizon.

Yes, because the maths are beyond us.

?

I don’t think the maths have anything to do with it.

We just don’t know how matter (or whatever you want to call it) behaves under those conditions.

Because the maths are beyond us.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:24:13
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568099
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Michael V said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

We don’t know.

Check out Chandrasekhah limit and event horizon.

Yes, because the maths are beyond us.

?

I don’t think the maths have anything to do with it.

We just don’t know how matter (or whatever you want to call it) behaves under those conditions.

Because the maths are beyond us.

No, because we have no observations to tell us what maths to apply.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:31:40
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1568100
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

The Rev Dodgson said:


Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

?

I don’t think the maths have anything to do with it.

We just don’t know how matter (or whatever you want to call it) behaves under those conditions.

Because the maths are beyond us.

No, because we have no observations to tell us what maths to apply.

no ¿ none at all ¿

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:37:23
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568102
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

SCIENCE said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

Because the maths are beyond us.

No, because we have no observations to tell us what maths to apply.

no ¿ none at all ¿

I suppose we have some observations on what maths not to apply.

But where “we don’t have the maths” I’d say the reason is not that “we don’t have the maths”, but rather we don’t know what maths is applicable and/or how to apply it, because of lack of observational evidence.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:44:13
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1568106
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

I would have thought we would have the maths up to the singularity otherwise we wouldn’t have a singularity?

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Date: 5/06/2020 09:50:14
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568109
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Bogsnorkler said:


I would have thought we would have the maths up to the singularity otherwise we wouldn’t have a singularity?

There is precisely zero evidence that there is a “singularity”.

Not because of lack of maths, but because of lack of observational evidence of what happens beyond the event horizon.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 09:54:25
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1568110
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

The Rev Dodgson said:


Bogsnorkler said:

I would have thought we would have the maths up to the singularity otherwise we wouldn’t have a singularity?

There is precisely zero evidence that there is a “singularity”.

Not because of lack of maths, but because of lack of observational evidence of what happens beyond the event horizon.

Logical fallacy: Personal incredulity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulmsutter/2019/03/19/how-we-know-whats-inside-a-black-hole/#4f810c9b374a

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Date: 5/06/2020 10:04:00
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568115
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

Bogsnorkler said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I would have thought we would have the maths up to the singularity otherwise we wouldn’t have a singularity?

There is precisely zero evidence that there is a “singularity”.

Not because of lack of maths, but because of lack of observational evidence of what happens beyond the event horizon.

Logical fallacy: Personal incredulity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulmsutter/2019/03/19/how-we-know-whats-inside-a-black-hole/#4f810c9b374a

Thanks for the link.

It was pretty disappointing though.

It’s just saying that it is certain that you can extrapolate the physical behaviour we have observational evidence for, literally to infinity, which is just nonsense.

Personal incredulity has nothing to do with it.
Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 10:11:24
From: Cymek
ID: 1568116
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

What would happen to exotic quark matter if it was removed from a neutron star (the difficulty of doing it aside)

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Date: 5/06/2020 11:28:26
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1568136
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

The Rev Dodgson said:


Bogsnorkler said:

I would have thought we would have the maths up to the singularity otherwise we wouldn’t have a singularity?

There is precisely zero evidence that there is a “singularity”.

Not because of lack of maths, but because of lack of observational evidence of what happens beyond the event horizon.

Um. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you. But since then the LHC has cleared things up a bit. It essentially has killed off a lot of different types of hypotheses for quantum mechanics beyond the standard model. If the standard model is correct then we know exactly what is beyond the event horizon, and we actually have a fair idea of what is beyond the singularity.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 11:38:50
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568141
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

mollwollfumble said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I would have thought we would have the maths up to the singularity otherwise we wouldn’t have a singularity?

There is precisely zero evidence that there is a “singularity”.

Not because of lack of maths, but because of lack of observational evidence of what happens beyond the event horizon.

Um. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you. But since then the LHC has cleared things up a bit. It essentially has killed off a lot of different types of hypotheses for quantum mechanics beyond the standard model. If the standard model is correct then we know exactly what is beyond the event horizon, and we actually have a fair idea of what is beyond the singularity.

What do you mean by “beyond the singularity” exactly?

How can observation of the results of interactions between tiny numbers of particles in Earth’s gravitational field tell us anything about how huge quantities of matter interact under totally different conditions, and when all occupying a volume even approaching a singularity?

Reply Quote

Date: 5/06/2020 16:10:48
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1568295
Subject: re: Researchers discover a new type of matter inside neutron stars

From the latest New Scientist:

“A sceptic might view complications such as dark matter and dark energy, the current incarnation of the cosmological constant, as today’s equivalent of the Ptolemaic epicycles, the convoluted tweaks made to the model of the planets’ motions to maintain the fiction that they were all revolving around Earth. I have more skin in this game than most: I introduced the mystery elements of dark matter and dark energy into our standard cosmology. So is the model I helped construct right; is our cosmology a true reflection of reality? In what follows, I will strongly argue yes – but only as far as that goes.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632851-400-why-the-universe-i-invented-is-right-but-still-not-the-final-answer/#ixzz6OT7JVQl2

(Read more for subscribers only)

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