Nicotine e-cigarettes and refills will be banned in Australia from July 1 under pain of a $220,000 fine. In the United Kingdom, they’re advertised and sold in hospital foyers. What’s going on?

On Friday, the Australian Government announced that it was extending its already strict vaping ban — not only would selling nictoine vaping products in the country be illegal (this has been the case for years), but so would be importing them for personal use. The change would come into effect in just 12 days — on July 1.

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. They say that e-cigarettes risk undoing decades of work in reducing the appeal of cigarettes to children; they worry it’s a ‘gateway’ to conventional smoking. Meanwhile, the UK, Canada and New Zealand are going in the opposite direction; encouraging smokers to switch to vaping as harm reduction. The number of smokers in England is falling. In Australia, it’s going up.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/will-the-july-1-vaping-ban-push-people-back-to-cigarettes/12385698?utm_medium=social&utm_content=sf235359535&utm_campaign=abc_australia&utm_source=m.facebook.com&sf235359535=1&fbclid=IwAR1jlP9k1vLuu3OBAjsSdHtIlOAg2Ay03K-5tYGYusPyZX1R-rad3p9yytw

oh no…

Arts said:

Nicotine e-cigarettes and refills will be banned in Australia from July 1 under pain of a $220,000 fine. In the United Kingdom, they’re advertised and sold in hospital foyers. What’s going on?

On Friday, the Australian Government announced that it was extending its already strict vaping ban — not only would selling nictoine vaping products in the country be illegal (this has been the case for years), but so would be importing them for personal use. The change would come into effect in just 12 days — on July 1.

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. They say that e-cigarettes risk undoing decades of work in reducing the appeal of cigarettes to children; they worry it’s a ‘gateway’ to conventional smoking. Meanwhile, the UK, Canada and New Zealand are going in the opposite direction; encouraging smokers to switch to vaping as harm reduction. The number of smokers in England is falling. In Australia, it’s going up.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/will-the-july-1-vaping-ban-push-people-back-to-cigarettes/12385698?utm_medium=social&utm_content=sf235359535&utm_campaign=abc_australia&utm_source=m.facebook.com&sf235359535=1&fbclid=IwAR1jlP9k1vLuu3OBAjsSdHtIlOAg2Ay03K-5tYGYusPyZX1R-rad3p9yytw

oh no…

The rate of people smoking has been falling in Australia much quicker than other countries. If it’s now going up, something significant has changed. I can’t think of anything else that would explain it.

Arts said:

Nicotine e-cigarettes and refills will be banned in Australia from July 1 under pain of a $220,000 fine. In the United Kingdom, they’re advertised and sold in hospital foyers. What’s going on?

On Friday, the Australian Government announced that it was extending its already strict vaping ban — not only would selling nictoine vaping products in the country be illegal (this has been the case for years), but so would be importing them for personal use. The change would come into effect in just 12 days — on July 1.

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. They say that e-cigarettes risk undoing decades of work in reducing the appeal of cigarettes to children; they worry it’s a ‘gateway’ to conventional smoking. Meanwhile, the UK, Canada and New Zealand are going in the opposite direction; encouraging smokers to switch to vaping as harm reduction. The number of smokers in England is falling. In Australia, it’s going up.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/will-the-july-1-vaping-ban-push-people-back-to-cigarettes/12385698?utm_medium=social&utm_content=sf235359535&utm_campaign=abc_australia&utm_source=m.facebook.com&sf235359535=1&fbclid=IwAR1jlP9k1vLuu3OBAjsSdHtIlOAg2Ay03K-5tYGYusPyZX1R-rad3p9yytw

oh no…

I think that’s stupid.

Arts said:

Nicotine e-cigarettes and refills will be banned in Australia from July 1 under pain of a $220,000 fine. In the United Kingdom, they’re advertised and sold in hospital foyers. What’s going on?

On Friday, the Australian Government announced that it was extending its already strict vaping ban — not only would selling nictoine vaping products in the country be illegal (this has been the case for years), but so would be importing them for personal use. The change would come into effect in just 12 days — on July 1.

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. They say that e-cigarettes risk undoing decades of work in reducing the appeal of cigarettes to children; they worry it’s a ‘gateway’ to conventional smoking. Meanwhile, the UK, Canada and New Zealand are going in the opposite direction; encouraging smokers to switch to vaping as harm reduction. The number of smokers in England is falling. In Australia, it’s going up.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/will-the-july-1-vaping-ban-push-people-back-to-cigarettes/12385698?utm_medium=social&utm_content=sf235359535&utm_campaign=abc_australia&utm_source=m.facebook.com&sf235359535=1&fbclid=IwAR1jlP9k1vLuu3OBAjsSdHtIlOAg2Ay03K-5tYGYusPyZX1R-rad3p9yytw

oh no…

I watched an interesting Netflix doco (Broken) on the marketing of vaping products, and now am of the opinion that Australia’s stance on this is a good one.

Speedy said:

Arts said:

Nicotine e-cigarettes and refills will be banned in Australia from July 1 under pain of a $220,000 fine. In the United Kingdom, they’re advertised and sold in hospital foyers. What’s going on?

On Friday, the Australian Government announced that it was extending its already strict vaping ban — not only would selling nictoine vaping products in the country be illegal (this has been the case for years), but so would be importing them for personal use. The change would come into effect in just 12 days — on July 1.

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. They say that e-cigarettes risk undoing decades of work in reducing the appeal of cigarettes to children; they worry it’s a ‘gateway’ to conventional smoking. Meanwhile, the UK, Canada and New Zealand are going in the opposite direction; encouraging smokers to switch to vaping as harm reduction. The number of smokers in England is falling. In Australia, it’s going up.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/will-the-july-1-vaping-ban-push-people-back-to-cigarettes/12385698?utm_medium=social&utm_content=sf235359535&utm_campaign=abc_australia&utm_source=m.facebook.com&sf235359535=1&fbclid=IwAR1jlP9k1vLuu3OBAjsSdHtIlOAg2Ay03K-5tYGYusPyZX1R-rad3p9yytw

oh no…

I watched an interesting Netflix doco (Broken) on the marketing of vaping products, and now am of the opinion that Australia’s stance on this is a good one.

It does seem deliberately aimed at younger people and the various pipes etc designed to look striking and almost collectable

Factors driving changes in tobacco consumption:

From here

(link opens Tobacco in Australia web page)

It’s the typical nanny state overkill we’ve come to expect from Australia.

Bubblecar said:

It’s the typical nanny state overkill we’ve come to expect from Australia.

Well…… that’s it.

I’m moving to Thailand where it’s a dollar a packet. And when I get sick, I’ll come back for the health care that I won’t have contributed a cent towards any of it.

So they can stick that up their vape hole and suck on it.

Bubblecar said:

It’s the typical nanny state overkill we’ve come to expect from Australia.

So are you still a vaper Mr. Car?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s the typical nanny state overkill we’ve come to expect from Australia.

So are you still a vaper Mr. Car?

I still occasionally have a puff of non-nicotine juice (I’m slowly using up my last supply), but I gave up the nicotine juice last year.

I’m not an expert on it by any means, but that shouldn’t stop me having an opinion….

The question is what are the vape smokers going to do in 12 days time? Quit or switch to buying normal ciggies?

I’ll have to accept the medical advice on the dangers of vaping, but really public policy needs to include some assessment of human behaviour and how to manage the transition period.

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Woodie said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s the typical nanny state overkill we’ve come to expect from Australia.

Well…… that’s it.

I’m moving to Thailand where it’s a dollar a packet. And when I get sick, I’ll come back for the health care that I won’t have contributed a cent towards any of it.

So they can stick that up their vape hole and suck on it.

>nods<

Addiction reinforcing thinking. Remember it well. Prick of a drug.

party_pants said:

I’m not an expert on it by any means, but that shouldn’t stop me having an opinion….

The question is what are the vape smokers going to do in 12 days time? Quit or switch to buying normal ciggies?

I’ll have to accept the medical advice on the dangers of vaping, but really public policy needs to include some assessment of human behaviour and how to manage the transition period.

The advice might be that the transition period is best managed ‘Cold Turkey’.

Just sayin’.

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

I find it a little disturbing that expert opinion in Aus all goes one way, and expert opinion in other similar countries all goes the opposite way.

It almost looks like there is more disagreement amongst the experts than their peak bodies are willing to admit to.

Rule 303 said:

party_pants said:

I’m not an expert on it by any means, but that shouldn’t stop me having an opinion….

The question is what are the vape smokers going to do in 12 days time? Quit or switch to buying normal ciggies?

I’ll have to accept the medical advice on the dangers of vaping, but really public policy needs to include some assessment of human behaviour and how to manage the transition period.

The advice might be that the transition period is best managed ‘Cold Turkey’.

Just sayin’.

Gonna be tough on their spouses.

Should be noted, ecigs will still be available on prescription to people who are trying to quit smoking, in cases where patches/gum have failed.

Under the incoming ban, an e-cigarette prescription will only be provided to assist with smoking cessation where other measures, such as nicotine replacement therapy, have failed.   ‘I urge all people who smoke to see their GP and explore the pharmacotherapy treatments available. This includes nicotine replacement therapy in the form of a patch, spray, gum or lozenge,’ Dr Nespolon said.

Tamb said:

Rule 303 said:

party_pants said:

I’m not an expert on it by any means, but that shouldn’t stop me having an opinion….

The question is what are the vape smokers going to do in 12 days time? Quit or switch to buying normal ciggies?

I’ll have to accept the medical advice on the dangers of vaping, but really public policy needs to include some assessment of human behaviour and how to manage the transition period.

The advice might be that the transition period is best managed ‘Cold Turkey’.

Just sayin’.

Gonna be tough on their spouses.

What, worse than now?

Rule 303 said:

Tamb said:

Rule 303 said:

The advice might be that the transition period is best managed ‘Cold Turkey’.

Just sayin’.

Gonna be tough on their spouses.

What, worse than now?

Much worse Mz Tamb was a smoker. Savage until after her first durry & coffee.

next they’ll be telling us all that COVID-19 spreads by vaping

Damn I have a number of shares in vaping

Sell

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

Woodie said:

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

Bar-stewards. Just 6 full days left to get more supplies. Buggrit.

Woodie said:

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

furious said:

Woodie said:

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

furious said:

Woodie said:

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

None on the vaping juice, as it is banned from sale in Australia. It wasn’t banned from importation. It will be in a few days.

Cigarettes, probably $40+ per packet.

Cymek said:

furious said:

Woodie said:

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

Definitely not metho in the vape juice.

Has vaping even been shown to be harmful?

sibeen said:

Has vaping even been shown to be harmful?

Wasn’t some mysterious pneumonia type illness doing the rounds that may have been a contaminated batch though

Woodie said:

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

The 100% imported tobacco industry.

Tamb said:

Woodie said:

dv said:

The announcement has the support of every major public health body, from the Cancer Council to the Heart Foundation to the Royal Australian College of GPs. 

—-

Well it’s nice to have a government that listens to experts.

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

The 100% imported tobacco industry.

Perzacterly. Importing nicotine industry being protected from another.

Cymek said:

sibeen said:

Has vaping even been shown to be harmful?

Wasn’t some mysterious pneumonia type illness doing the rounds that may have been a contaminated batch though

or COVID-19

Cymek said:

furious said:

Woodie said:

Listens to the tobacco industry more like. These vaping buggers are pinching our business. Ban ‘em for us will ya?

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

So you’ll be breathing methanol. Not recommended.

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

sibeen said:

Has vaping even been shown to be harmful?

Wasn’t some mysterious pneumonia type illness doing the rounds that may have been a contaminated batch though

or COVID-19

It may have been, haven’t really read anything since it was mentioned months ago

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

furious said:

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

So you’ll be breathing methanol. Not recommended.

burnt methanol.

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Wasn’t some mysterious pneumonia type illness doing the rounds that may have been a contaminated batch though

or COVID-19

It may have been, haven’t really read anything since it was mentioned months ago

Seems this is it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaping-associated_pulmonary_injury

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

furious said:

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

So you’ll be breathing methanol. Not recommended.

I was joking thinking of two substances not good to inhale

Woodie said:

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

So you’ll be breathing methanol. Not recommended.

burnt methanol.

Vapourised not burnt.

aren’t some of the bigger vape producers owned by BigCig?

Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

So you’ll be breathing methanol. Not recommended.

I was joking thinking of two substances not good to inhale

even I got that.

:-)

JudgeMental said:

Cymek said:

Tamb said:

So you’ll be breathing methanol. Not recommended.

I was joking thinking of two substances not good to inhale

even I got that.

:-)

Oh duh Tamb. Fell right in. :(

Cymek said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

or COVID-19

It may have been, haven’t really read anything since it was mentioned months ago

Seems this is it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaping-associated_pulmonary_injury

Which doesn’t seem to implicate the ‘normal’ nicotine style vaping.

party_pants said:

I’m not an expert on it by any means, but that shouldn’t stop me having an opinion….

The question is what are the vape smokers going to do in 12 days time? Quit or switch to buying normal ciggies?

I’ll have to accept the medical advice on the dangers of vaping, but really public policy needs to include some assessment of human behaviour and how to manage the transition period.

they’ll need go nicotine lozenges, or spray in the mouth, or something

Cymek said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

or COVID-19

It may have been, haven’t really read anything since it was mentioned months ago

Seems this is it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaping-associated_pulmonary_injury

Starting, in September 2019, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has been reporting on a nation-wide outbreak of severe lung disease linked to vaping, or the process of inhaling aerosolized substances with battery-operated electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes), ciga-likes, or vape mods. The cases of lung injury date back to at least April 2019. As of February 4, 2020, 2,758 cases of VAPI have been reported to the CDC, with 64 confirmed deaths.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

No. The tobacco companies are probably cock-a-hoop as well.

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

To me it seems like a disadvantage. Instead of a tax windfall for the govt, it is a subsidised prescription item only.

dv said:

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

To me it seems like a disadvantage. Instead of a tax windfall for the govt, it is a subsidised prescription item only.

the advantage would be in the tax dollars from (presumably) increased tobacco sales… unless of course everyone just says “Fuck it, we’ll give up smoking altogether”

Arts said:

dv said:

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

To me it seems like a disadvantage. Instead of a tax windfall for the govt, it is a subsidised prescription item only.

the advantage would be in the tax dollars from (presumably) increased tobacco sales… unless of course everyone just says “Fuck it, we’ll give up smoking altogether”

Or (shrugs) just get a prescription for the vape. It’s not hard.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

No. The tobacco companies are probably cock-a-hoop as well.

you would have thought they would have gotten on this vaping thing early…

(also I had to look up cock-a-hoop as you used it.. it’s a 17th century origin that was about turning on the taps to get alcohol flowing which, I supposed, made people very pleased leading to the use you had… it doesn’t surprise me that you used an alcohol related term and that it was 17th century).

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

To me it seems like a disadvantage. Instead of a tax windfall for the govt, it is a subsidised prescription item only.

the advantage would be in the tax dollars from (presumably) increased tobacco sales… unless of course everyone just says “Fuck it, we’ll give up smoking altogether”

Or (shrugs) just get a prescription for the vape. It’s not hard.

Probably harder than walking down to the local milk bar and buying some.

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

To me it seems like a disadvantage. Instead of a tax windfall for the govt, it is a subsidised prescription item only.

the advantage would be in the tax dollars from (presumably) increased tobacco sales… unless of course everyone just says “Fuck it, we’ll give up smoking altogether”

Or (shrugs) just get a prescription for the vape. It’s not hard.

I see a couple of issues with this.. first is that to get a script you need to pay a doctor (these days doctors also charge for just writing out a script, not as much as a consultation but still). second – the script idea is with the intention that you are trying to quit.. so Presumably it is not a long term solution .. maybe it is I dunno.

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

No. The tobacco companies are probably cock-a-hoop as well.

you would have thought they would have gotten on this vaping thing early…

(also I had to look up cock-a-hoop as you used it.. it’s a 17th century origin that was about turning on the taps to get alcohol flowing which, I supposed, made people very pleased leading to the use you had… it doesn’t surprise me that you used an alcohol related term and that it was 17th century).

You’d really never seen the term cock-a-hoop before?

sibeen said:

Arts said:

sibeen said:

No. The tobacco companies are probably cock-a-hoop as well.

you would have thought they would have gotten on this vaping thing early…

(also I had to look up cock-a-hoop as you used it.. it’s a 17th century origin that was about turning on the taps to get alcohol flowing which, I supposed, made people very pleased leading to the use you had… it doesn’t surprise me that you used an alcohol related term and that it was 17th century).

You’d really never seen the term cock-a-hoop before?

nope.

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

you would have thought they would have gotten on this vaping thing early…

(also I had to look up cock-a-hoop as you used it.. it’s a 17th century origin that was about turning on the taps to get alcohol flowing which, I supposed, made people very pleased leading to the use you had… it doesn’t surprise me that you used an alcohol related term and that it was 17th century).

You’d really never seen the term cock-a-hoop before?

nope.

You should use it in an essay and then in a footnote thank me for the idea.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

sibeen said:

You’d really never seen the term cock-a-hoop before?

nope.

You should use it in an essay and then in a footnote thank me for the idea.

you’re right.

sibeen said:

dv said:

Arts said:

the advantage would be in the tax dollars from (presumably) increased tobacco sales… unless of course everyone just says “Fuck it, we’ll give up smoking altogether”

Or (shrugs) just get a prescription for the vape. It’s not hard.

Probably harder than walking down to the local milk bar and buying some.

but cheaper

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

nope.

You should use it in an essay and then in a footnote thank me for the idea.

you’re right.

I know. It’s generally the case. Where generally means all the time.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

sibeen said:

You should use it in an essay and then in a footnote thank me for the idea.

you’re right.

I know. It’s generally the case. Where generally means all the time.

Been, S., pers com

I wasn’t committed to either side of this debate until I saw this..

The Nationals wanker Matt Canavan described as “overkill” the move to impose fines “for importing what is in most countries a legal product”.

Also, the instruments look hot but they sound shit..

Looks like a recorder just about to blow

Michael V said:

Cymek said:

furious said:

How much tax do they get per unit of tobacco vs per unit of vaping liquid?

Especially as you can make your own vape really cheap using methylated spirits and essential oils for flavour

Definitely not metho in the vape juice.

Yeah. I was going to ask.

sibeen said:

dv said:

Arts said:

the advantage would be in the tax dollars from (presumably) increased tobacco sales… unless of course everyone just says “Fuck it, we’ll give up smoking altogether”

Or (shrugs) just get a prescription for the vape. It’s not hard.

Probably harder than walking down to the local milk bar and buying some.

Maybe that’s the notion: youngsters would find it exceptionally difficult to get a prescription, whereas old long-term addicts like me might be able to get one.

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

you would have thought they would have gotten on this vaping thing early…

(also I had to look up cock-a-hoop as you used it.. it’s a 17th century origin that was about turning on the taps to get alcohol flowing which, I supposed, made people very pleased leading to the use you had… it doesn’t surprise me that you used an alcohol related term and that it was 17th century).

You’d really never seen the term cock-a-hoop before?

nope.

Well, there you go. It’s not a common expression, but it’s not that unusual, I’d‘ve thought.

Michael V said:

Arts said:

sibeen said:

You’d really never seen the term cock-a-hoop before?

nope.

Well, there you go. It’s not a common expression, but it’s not that unusual, I’d‘ve thought.

It used to be more commonly used in the past but I rarely see it used these days.

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Or (shrugs) just get a prescription for the vape. It’s not hard.

Probably harder than walking down to the local milk bar and buying some.

Maybe that’s the notion: youngsters would find it exceptionally difficult to get a prescription, whereas old long-term addicts like me might be able to get one.

According to a Netflix Doco I watched, can’t offhand remember the name of it, The US vaping equipment is supposed to be in addition to smoking, with the same nicotine hit in every puff like the first puff of a ciggy. In the UK, it is used as a replacement for smoking the same way Nicorette is here. The UK version has significantly less nicotine and you can gradually get less and less until you quit altogether. And of course, there are vaping cartridges with no nicotine at all but full of flavour.

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

Not really.

How the government spend the money and how they raise it are two separate things, so if they raise more money from voluntary taxation, that’s good.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

Not really.

How the government spend the money and how they raise it are two separate things, so if they raise more money from voluntary taxation, that’s good.

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

Not really.

How the government spend the money and how they raise it are two separate things, so if they raise more money from voluntary taxation, that’s good.

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

Not really.

How the government spend the money and how they raise it are two separate things, so if they raise more money from voluntary taxation, that’s good.

Of course.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

Not really.

How the government spend the money and how they raise it are two separate things, so if they raise more money from voluntary taxation, that’s good.

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

That.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Not really.

How the government spend the money and how they raise it are two separate things, so if they raise more money from voluntary taxation, that’s good.

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

Depends how the tax is spent.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Not really.

How the government spend the money and how they raise it are two separate things, so if they raise more money from voluntary taxation, that’s good.

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

Huh? That isn’t what I said.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

Huh? That isn’t what I said.

I thought that strange..

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

Huh? That isn’t what I said.

I read it that way.

smug look

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

Depends how the tax is spent.

No, it depends on how the tax effects the usage of the product that has associated health costs.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

as long as the cost of smoking re health doesn’t outweigh the tax raised. surely?

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

Huh? That isn’t what I said.

What did you say?

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does taxing cigarettes increase the health cost?

Surely the opposite.

Depends how the tax is spent.

No, it depends on how the tax effects the usage of the product that has associated health costs.

Those who still smoke the same amount will still be paying the tax no matter how much it is. Surely, there will be thos who smoke less or give up due to financial restraints?
However, most would likely to give up due to health concerns.

Divine Angel said:

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

Probably harder than walking down to the local milk bar and buying some.

Maybe that’s the notion: youngsters would find it exceptionally difficult to get a prescription, whereas old long-term addicts like me might be able to get one.

According to a Netflix Doco I watched, can’t offhand remember the name of it, The US vaping equipment is supposed to be in addition to smoking, with the same nicotine hit in every puff like the first puff of a ciggy. In the UK, it is used as a replacement for smoking the same way Nicorette is here. The UK version has significantly less nicotine and you can gradually get less and less until you quit altogether. And of course, there are vaping cartridges with no nicotine at all but full of flavour.

I don’t understand vaping with no nicotine. once the addiction is gone, what’s the deal? Habit?

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

so, all of the people who currently vape are pissed?

DO we think this is a purely economic advantage for the government?

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

stand down I see this has already been covered.. (Arts, read the whole thread before replying, you idiot)

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

I very much doubt that is the case now as the tax on cigarettes has gone up quite steeply. Even back then I suspect the figures were a bit on the fluffy side where nearly every ailment a smoker had was considered to be smoking related.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

I very much doubt that is the case now as the tax on cigarettes has gone up quite steeply. Even back then I suspect the figures were a bit on the fluffy side where nearly every ailment a smoker had was considered to be smoking related.

oh ok, smoke on then my little flying monkeys, smoke on.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

So you are saying smoking should be made illegal?

Certainly there is a case for that, but I don’t see many people proposing it.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

So you are saying smoking should be made illegal?

Certainly there is a case for that, but I don’t see many people proposing it.

I’m not making a stance either way. this is just a conversation not a debate.

Arts said:

Divine Angel said:

Michael V said:

Maybe that’s the notion: youngsters would find it exceptionally difficult to get a prescription, whereas old long-term addicts like me might be able to get one.

According to a Netflix Doco I watched, can’t offhand remember the name of it, The US vaping equipment is supposed to be in addition to smoking, with the same nicotine hit in every puff like the first puff of a ciggy. In the UK, it is used as a replacement for smoking the same way Nicorette is here. The UK version has significantly less nicotine and you can gradually get less and less until you quit altogether. And of course, there are vaping cartridges with no nicotine at all but full of flavour.

I don’t understand vaping with no nicotine. once the addiction is gone, what’s the deal? Habit?

Oral fixation.

Arts said:

Divine Angel said:

Michael V said:

Maybe that’s the notion: youngsters would find it exceptionally difficult to get a prescription, whereas old long-term addicts like me might be able to get one.

According to a Netflix Doco I watched, can’t offhand remember the name of it, The US vaping equipment is supposed to be in addition to smoking, with the same nicotine hit in every puff like the first puff of a ciggy. In the UK, it is used as a replacement for smoking the same way Nicorette is here. The UK version has significantly less nicotine and you can gradually get less and less until you quit altogether. And of course, there are vaping cartridges with no nicotine at all but full of flavour.

I don’t understand vaping with no nicotine. once the addiction is gone, what’s the deal? Habit?

Partly, but also because people like the flavours. There was a bit in the doco where people were talking about their favourite flavours. It’s like eating lollies without the sugar hit or weight gain.

There’s a vape shop near me and they have tons of flavours, including one called Bogan’s Brew. Wonder what that’s like?

https://www.northsidevapeshop.com.au/

Divine Angel said:

Arts said:

Divine Angel said:

According to a Netflix Doco I watched, can’t offhand remember the name of it, The US vaping equipment is supposed to be in addition to smoking, with the same nicotine hit in every puff like the first puff of a ciggy. In the UK, it is used as a replacement for smoking the same way Nicorette is here. The UK version has significantly less nicotine and you can gradually get less and less until you quit altogether. And of course, there are vaping cartridges with no nicotine at all but full of flavour.

I don’t understand vaping with no nicotine. once the addiction is gone, what’s the deal? Habit?

Partly, but also because people like the flavours. There was a bit in the doco where people were talking about their favourite flavours. It’s like eating lollies without the sugar hit or weight gain.

There’s a vape shop near me and they have tons of flavours, including one called Bogan’s Brew. Wonder what that’s like?

https://www.northsidevapeshop.com.au/

one could have some Bertie Botts every flavour fun with the names of the vapes…

>I don’t understand vaping with no nicotine. once the addiction is gone, what’s the deal? Habit?

turns out inhaling air is addictive, oxygen maybe, starts very young

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

So you are saying smoking should be made illegal?

Certainly there is a case for that, but I don’t see many people proposing it.

I’m not making a stance either way. this is just a conversation not a debate.

Looks like a discussion to me.

Which is a type of conversation.

I’m not sure where “debate” fits in.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So you are saying smoking should be made illegal?

Certainly there is a case for that, but I don’t see many people proposing it.

I’m not making a stance either way. this is just a conversation not a debate.

Looks like a discussion to me.

Which is a type of conversation.

I’m not sure where “debate” fits in.

it might be time for a beer TRD

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

I’m not making a stance either way. this is just a conversation not a debate.

Looks like a discussion to me.

Which is a type of conversation.

I’m not sure where “debate” fits in.

it might be time for a beer TRD

Thanks, mine’s a glass of the house Cab Sav please.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

I’m all in favour of voluntary taxation.

Me too. Provided they(the gov’t) spend the money in the appropriate fashion amenable to me in particular and others in the community other than just to suit the party political machinations lobbied by those invested in running the economy to suit tthemselves.

I admit that it was many many years ago, but I think the cost of healthcare for smoking related ailments exceeds the financial benefits for the gov…

and that was my point.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/26/greg-hunt-delays-ban-on-liquid-nicotine-imports-after-backlash-from-coalition-mps

There has been a backdown and the ban won’t come into play until Jan 1 2021.