Date: 10/07/2020 15:38:28
From: dv
ID: 1587440
Subject: China

The political situation appears to be deteriorating rapidly so perhaps worth a continuing tracking thread.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-53344013

National security law: Australia suspends Hong Kong extradition treaty

Australia has suspended its extradition treaty with Hong Kong in response to fears over a new national security law imposed by China.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said the new law undermined “Hong Kong’s own basic law” and the territory’s current level of autonomy from Beijing.

Australia planned to extend visas for Hong Kong residents and encourage businesses there to relocate, he said.

China has criticised the move as “gross interference” in its domestic affairs.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 15:55:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1587445
Subject: re: China

but did it deteriorate to the point where Bob let the students in

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 16:04:36
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1587448
Subject: re: China

anyway it’s probably political expediency and not deterioration, China doesn’t want criminals hiding in Hong Kong and Australia doesn’t want illegal immigrants so we’re just arranging an exchange of ambassadors, we get their Democratic Peoples and they get their Law And Order, win win win

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 17:41:36
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1587496
Subject: re: China

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 19:50:27
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1587621
Subject: re: China

Just let me die before starting world war III.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 19:51:42
From: furious
ID: 1587623
Subject: re: China

mollwollfumble said:


Just let me die before starting world war III.

You’re going to haunt xi?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 19:52:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1587625
Subject: re: China

mollwollfumble said:


Just let me die before starting world war III.

I’ll mention to Xi Jin Ping next time he rings up.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 19:53:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1587628
Subject: re: China

World War XI, eh

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 20:21:08
From: dv
ID: 1587652
Subject: re: China

You’ve reminded me of the Indian newscaster who called him “President Eleven”. Makes sense in a cricket nation.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 20:22:53
From: dv
ID: 1587654
Subject: re: China

Again for Rev, here is the handshake scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTt-jdDEWAw

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 21:50:09
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1587711
Subject: re: China

Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 21:56:05
From: sibeen
ID: 1587712
Subject: re: China

Witty Rejoinder said:


Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Hmm, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the brit Telegraph.

I didn’t look who the author was until I hit the line “The “second derivative” was already turning as far back as 2007.”

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 21:57:24
From: furious
ID: 1587713
Subject: re: China

Witty Rejoinder said:


Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

When you’re the biggest bully in the playground You don’t need friends…

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 21:58:00
From: dv
ID: 1587714
Subject: re: China

Witty Rejoinder said:


Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Unforch, the West is quite divided right now.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:00:45
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1587715
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Hmm, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the brit Telegraph.

I didn’t look who the author was until I hit the line “The “second derivative” was already turning as far back as 2007.”

:)

Didn’t notice that. What’s he mean by ‘second derivative’ in this context?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:00:58
From: sibeen
ID: 1587716
Subject: re: China

dv said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Unforch, the West is quite divided right now.

But if China really started to lurch around I suspect common ground would be found quite quickly.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:01:57
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1587717
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Hmm, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the brit Telegraph.

I didn’t look who the author was until I hit the line “The “second derivative” was already turning as far back as 2007.”

:)

A quick reminder on the UK newspapers:

Who reads the papers

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:02:36
From: sibeen
ID: 1587718
Subject: re: China

Witty Rejoinder said:


sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Hmm, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the brit Telegraph.

I didn’t look who the author was until I hit the line “The “second derivative” was already turning as far back as 2007.”

:)

Didn’t notice that. What’s he mean by ‘second derivative’ in this context?

The rate of growth of the rate of growth has slowed down.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:03:23
From: sibeen
ID: 1587720
Subject: re: China

The Rev Dodgson said:


sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Hmm, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the brit Telegraph.

I didn’t look who the author was until I hit the line “The “second derivative” was already turning as far back as 2007.”

:)

A quick reminder on the UK newspapers:

Who reads the papers

I knew what that was going to be before I clicked on it.

big tits

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:03:37
From: dv
ID: 1587721
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Lone wolf: The West should bide its time, friendless China is in trouble

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/lone-wolf-the-west-should-bide-its-time-friendless-china-is-in-trouble-20200709-p55adj.html

Unforch, the West is quite divided right now.

But if China really started to lurch around I suspect common ground would be found quite quickly.

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:06:03
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1587724
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

sibeen said:

Hmm, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the brit Telegraph.

I didn’t look who the author was until I hit the line “The “second derivative” was already turning as far back as 2007.”

:)

A quick reminder on the UK newspapers:

Who reads the papers

I knew what that was going to be before I clicked on it.

big tits

:)

You have to admit it’s a pretty accurate summary though.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:06:13
From: furious
ID: 1587725
Subject: re: China

dv said:


sibeen said:

dv said:

Unforch, the West is quite divided right now.

But if China really started to lurch around I suspect common ground would be found quite quickly.

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

Good luck with that…

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:10:20
From: dv
ID: 1587733
Subject: re: China

furious said:


dv said:

sibeen said:

But if China really started to lurch around I suspect common ground would be found quite quickly.

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

Good luck with that…

What a nice think to say! Thank you.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:12:42
From: furious
ID: 1587737
Subject: re: China

dv said:


furious said:

dv said:

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

Good luck with that…

What a nice think to say! Thank you.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:12:58
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1587738
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

sibeen said:

Hmm, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the brit Telegraph.

I didn’t look who the author was until I hit the line “The “second derivative” was already turning as far back as 2007.”

:)

Didn’t notice that. What’s he mean by ‘second derivative’ in this context?

The rate of growth of the rate of growth has slowed down.

Ahhh.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:14:46
From: party_pants
ID: 1587741
Subject: re: China

dv said:


sibeen said:

dv said:

Unforch, the West is quite divided right now.

But if China really started to lurch around I suspect common ground would be found quite quickly.

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

OK, I’ll bite…

G6 hey…who drops out?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:15:35
From: dv
ID: 1587743
Subject: re: China

party_pants said:


dv said:

sibeen said:

But if China really started to lurch around I suspect common ground would be found quite quickly.

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

OK, I’ll bite…

G6 hey…who drops out?

One of them already effectively has.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:21:40
From: party_pants
ID: 1587748
Subject: re: China

dv said:


party_pants said:

dv said:

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

OK, I’ll bite…

G6 hey…who drops out?

One of them already effectively has.

They’ll have to come up with a new name if they decide to exclude both China and Russia. It ceases to be principally about economics after that.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:22:45
From: furious
ID: 1587749
Subject: re: China

party_pants said:


dv said:

party_pants said:

OK, I’ll bite…

G6 hey…who drops out?

One of them already effectively has.

They’ll have to come up with a new name if they decide to exclude both China and Russia. It ceases to be principally about economics after that.

Gee,six?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:23:42
From: dv
ID: 1587750
Subject: re: China

party_pants said:


dv said:

party_pants said:

OK, I’ll bite…

G6 hey…who drops out?

One of them already effectively has.

They’ll have to come up with a new name if they decide to exclude both China and Russia. It ceases to be principally about economics after that.

China’s never been in.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:25:27
From: party_pants
ID: 1587752
Subject: re: China

dv said:


party_pants said:

dv said:

One of them already effectively has.

They’ll have to come up with a new name if they decide to exclude both China and Russia. It ceases to be principally about economics after that.

China’s never been in.

OK…

So the UK then after Brexit?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:45:45
From: dv
ID: 1587764
Subject: re: China

party_pants said:


dv said:

party_pants said:

They’ll have to come up with a new name if they decide to exclude both China and Russia. It ceases to be principally about economics after that.

China’s never been in.

OK…

So the UK then after Brexit?

Christ, man. The USA, party_pants, the US of fucking A. The USA has been missing in action for the G7 for three years. Not sure whether you’re geeing me up. They’ve kneecapped, deliberately sabotaged cooperation, with Trump having no willingness to work on anything other than Russia rejoining.

2017
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-28/g7-leaders-end-summit-split-on-climate-change/8566044

2018
G7 summit ends in disarray as Trump abandons joint statement
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

2019
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-g7-summit-performance-analysis-2019-8?r=US&IR=T

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:47:07
From: sibeen
ID: 1587766
Subject: re: China

dv said:


party_pants said:

dv said:

China’s never been in.

OK…

So the UK then after Brexit?

Christ, man. The USA, party_pants, the US of fucking A. The USA has been missing in action for the G7 for three years. Not sure whether you’re geeing me up. They’ve kneecapped, deliberately sabotaged cooperation, with Trump having no willingness to work on anything other than Russia rejoining.

2017
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-28/g7-leaders-end-summit-split-on-climate-change/8566044

2018
G7 summit ends in disarray as Trump abandons joint statement
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

2019
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-g7-summit-performance-analysis-2019-8?r=US&IR=T

Your work here is done, pp. Magnificent trolling, good job.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:48:59
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1587770
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


dv said:

party_pants said:

OK…

So the UK then after Brexit?

Christ, man. The USA, party_pants, the US of fucking A. The USA has been missing in action for the G7 for three years. Not sure whether you’re geeing me up. They’ve kneecapped, deliberately sabotaged cooperation, with Trump having no willingness to work on anything other than Russia rejoining.

2017
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-28/g7-leaders-end-summit-split-on-climate-change/8566044

2018
G7 summit ends in disarray as Trump abandons joint statement
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

2019
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-g7-summit-performance-analysis-2019-8?r=US&IR=T

Your work here is done, pp. Magnificent trolling, good job.

And you wonder why DV considers you a trouble-maker…

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:51:50
From: sibeen
ID: 1587771
Subject: re: China

Witty Rejoinder said:


sibeen said:

dv said:

Christ, man. The USA, party_pants, the US of fucking A. The USA has been missing in action for the G7 for three years. Not sure whether you’re geeing me up. They’ve kneecapped, deliberately sabotaged cooperation, with Trump having no willingness to work on anything other than Russia rejoining.

2017
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-28/g7-leaders-end-summit-split-on-climate-change/8566044

2018
G7 summit ends in disarray as Trump abandons joint statement
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

2019
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-g7-summit-performance-analysis-2019-8?r=US&IR=T

Your work here is done, pp. Magnificent trolling, good job.

And you wonder why DV considers you a trouble-maker…

He does? Surely not.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:52:42
From: dv
ID: 1587772
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

sibeen said:

Your work here is done, pp. Magnificent trolling, good job.

And you wonder why DV considers you a trouble-maker…

He does? Surely not.

I’m going to blow an o-ring one day…

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:54:34
From: sibeen
ID: 1587774
Subject: re: China

dv said:


sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

And you wonder why DV considers you a trouble-maker…

He does? Surely not.

I’m going to blow an o-ring one day…

I’ll make sure to keep you above freezing point.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 22:56:23
From: party_pants
ID: 1587776
Subject: re: China

dv said:


party_pants said:

dv said:

China’s never been in.

OK…

So the UK then after Brexit?

Christ, man. The USA, party_pants, the US of fucking A. The USA has been missing in action for the G7 for three years. Not sure whether you’re geeing me up. They’ve kneecapped, deliberately sabotaged cooperation, with Trump having no willingness to work on anything other than Russia rejoining.

2017
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-28/g7-leaders-end-summit-split-on-climate-change/8566044

2018
G7 summit ends in disarray as Trump abandons joint statement
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

2019
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-g7-summit-performance-analysis-2019-8?r=US&IR=T

I’l re-read the thread tomorrow, sober and with my glasses on. I think I’ve misunderstanded your point completely.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 23:06:20
From: dv
ID: 1587780
Subject: re: China

party_pants said:


dv said:

party_pants said:

OK…

So the UK then after Brexit?

Christ, man. The USA, party_pants, the US of fucking A. The USA has been missing in action for the G7 for three years. Not sure whether you’re geeing me up. They’ve kneecapped, deliberately sabotaged cooperation, with Trump having no willingness to work on anything other than Russia rejoining.

2017
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-28/g7-leaders-end-summit-split-on-climate-change/8566044

2018
G7 summit ends in disarray as Trump abandons joint statement
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44427660

2019
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-g7-summit-performance-analysis-2019-8?r=US&IR=T

I’l re-read the thread tomorrow, sober and with my glasses on. I think I’ve misunderstanded your point completely.

My point was that the Western international organisations are just biding their time until the US normalises.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 23:11:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1587781
Subject: re: China

I’ve been saying for years that China is fundamentally unstable. Totalitarianism on that sort of scale is hard to sustain indefinitely, but also very tricky to relax.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 23:14:31
From: dv
ID: 1587783
Subject: re: China

Bubblecar said:


I’ve been saying for years that China is fundamentally unstable. Totalitarianism on that sort of scale is hard to sustain indefinitely, but also very tricky to relax.

There is burgeoning wealth disparity, which can’t help.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 23:16:11
From: party_pants
ID: 1587784
Subject: re: China

Bubblecar said:

but also very tricky to relax.

A man may build himself a throne from bayonets, but he can never sit upon it – Chairman Mao.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 23:20:16
From: sibeen
ID: 1587787
Subject: re: China

party_pants said:


Bubblecar said:
but also very tricky to relax.

A man may build himself a throne from bayonets, but he can never sit upon it – Chairman Mao.

peers over glasses

Reply Quote

Date: 10/07/2020 23:23:23
From: sibeen
ID: 1587789
Subject: re: China

sibeen said:


party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:
but also very tricky to relax.

A man may build himself a throne from bayonets, but he can never sit upon it – Chairman Mao.

peers over glasses

Even though it wasn’t Mao it really is a bullshit quote. There’s been uncountable warlords over the centuries who have done just that. Up until very recent history it was the only way you really grabbed any sort of power.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2020 16:25:07
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1588088
Subject: re: China

dv said:


sibeen said:

dv said:

Unforch, the West is quite divided right now.

But if China really started to lurch around I suspect common ground would be found quite quickly.

I think the OECD and G6 are counting down until 20/1/2021 so they can consider taking some concerted action.

The new world disorder
If America pulls back from global institutions, other powers must step forward

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/06/18/the-new-world-disorder?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/07/2020 09:19:15
From: dv
ID: 1594918
Subject: re: China

‘Virtually entire’ fashion industry complicit in Uighur forced labour, say rights groups

Human rights coalition says cotton produced in camps in Xinjiang region finds its way into one in five cotton products worldwide

___

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jul/23/virtually-entire-fashion-industry-complicit-in-uighur-forced-labour-say-rights-groups-china

Reply Quote

Date: 24/07/2020 09:36:38
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1594922
Subject: re: China

dv said:


‘Virtually entire’ fashion industry complicit in Uighur forced labour, say rights groups

Human rights coalition says cotton produced in camps in Xinjiang region finds its way into one in five cotton products worldwide

___

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jul/23/virtually-entire-fashion-industry-complicit-in-uighur-forced-labour-say-rights-groups-china

If someone buys some cotton fabric from a cotton fabric supplier, and that fabric originally came from a forced labour camp without the knowledge of the supplier or purchaser, does that make them “complicit”?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/07/2020 09:38:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 1594924
Subject: re: China

dv said:


‘Virtually entire’ fashion industry complicit in Uighur forced labour, say rights groups

Human rights coalition says cotton produced in camps in Xinjiang region finds its way into one in five cotton products worldwide

___

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jul/23/virtually-entire-fashion-industry-complicit-in-uighur-forced-labour-say-rights-groups-china

So we should stop selling them cotton and start making chesty bonds here again?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/07/2020 10:17:16
From: dv
ID: 1594952
Subject: re: China

The Rev Dodgson said:


dv said:

‘Virtually entire’ fashion industry complicit in Uighur forced labour, say rights groups

Human rights coalition says cotton produced in camps in Xinjiang region finds its way into one in five cotton products worldwide

___

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jul/23/virtually-entire-fashion-industry-complicit-in-uighur-forced-labour-say-rights-groups-china

If someone buys some cotton fabric from a cotton fabric supplier, and that fabric originally came from a forced labour camp without the knowledge of the supplier or purchaser, does that make them “complicit”?

Obviously it’s complex but in this information age there’s a limit to the defence of ignorance on the part of the supplier. I’m happy to say I’m complicit.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/07/2020 10:18:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 1594953
Subject: re: China

dv said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

‘Virtually entire’ fashion industry complicit in Uighur forced labour, say rights groups

Human rights coalition says cotton produced in camps in Xinjiang region finds its way into one in five cotton products worldwide

___

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jul/23/virtually-entire-fashion-industry-complicit-in-uighur-forced-labour-say-rights-groups-china

If someone buys some cotton fabric from a cotton fabric supplier, and that fabric originally came from a forced labour camp without the knowledge of the supplier or purchaser, does that make them “complicit”?

Obviously it’s complex but in this information age there’s a limit to the defence of ignorance on the part of the supplier. I’m happy to say I’m complicit.

Cheap undies are what they are?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/07/2020 11:38:38
From: transition
ID: 1595007
Subject: re: China

dv said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

‘Virtually entire’ fashion industry complicit in Uighur forced labour, say rights groups

Human rights coalition says cotton produced in camps in Xinjiang region finds its way into one in five cotton products worldwide

___

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jul/23/virtually-entire-fashion-industry-complicit-in-uighur-forced-labour-say-rights-groups-china

If someone buys some cotton fabric from a cotton fabric supplier, and that fabric originally came from a forced labour camp without the knowledge of the supplier or purchaser, does that make them “complicit”?

Obviously it’s complex but in this information age there’s a limit to the defence of ignorance on the part of the supplier. I’m happy to say I’m complicit.

the word complicit has a long association with law, used in different things written up, has a legal definition, loosely it goes to how someone might be involved (in something that may be bad)

you know, going to more a generalization with the word, a person might ask are most humans complicit in global overpopulation, a wobbly climate, destruction of environments through overpopulation, is the intelligent human species an arrogant species, do they kill millions of animals each day to live, do they breed and harvest animals for food, is the intelligent species really a cunt species and ought seriously consider self-extinction

there’s really no end to the complicity, if you want it, want to go there

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Date: 24/07/2020 11:39:22
From: dv
ID: 1595008
Subject: re: China

transition said:


dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

If someone buys some cotton fabric from a cotton fabric supplier, and that fabric originally came from a forced labour camp without the knowledge of the supplier or purchaser, does that make them “complicit”?

Obviously it’s complex but in this information age there’s a limit to the defence of ignorance on the part of the supplier. I’m happy to say I’m complicit.

the word complicit has a long association with law, used in different things written up, has a legal definition, loosely it goes to how someone might be involved (in something that may be bad)

you know, going to more a generalization with the word, a person might ask are most humans complicit in global overpopulation, a wobbly climate, destruction of environments through overpopulation, is the intelligent human species an arrogant species, do they kill millions of animals each day to live, do they breed and harvest animals for food, is the intelligent species really a cunt species and ought seriously consider self-extinction

there’s really no end to the complicity, if you want it, want to go there

Yes. There are shades of responsibility but as long as everyone feels a little bit, things should get better.

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Date: 24/07/2020 11:49:08
From: transition
ID: 1595022
Subject: re: China

dv said:


transition said:

dv said:

Obviously it’s complex but in this information age there’s a limit to the defence of ignorance on the part of the supplier. I’m happy to say I’m complicit.

the word complicit has a long association with law, used in different things written up, has a legal definition, loosely it goes to how someone might be involved (in something that may be bad)

you know, going to more a generalization with the word, a person might ask are most humans complicit in global overpopulation, a wobbly climate, destruction of environments through overpopulation, is the intelligent human species an arrogant species, do they kill millions of animals each day to live, do they breed and harvest animals for food, is the intelligent species really a cunt species and ought seriously consider self-extinction

there’s really no end to the complicity, if you want it, want to go there

Yes. There are shades of responsibility but as long as everyone feels a little bit, things should get better.

i’d guess humans dilute responsibility with their numbers, give the responsibilities to others, in fact if enough people do this successfully nobody really takes responsibility, so i’ll be happier when there’s twenty billion people on the earth, the abundance will further dilute my responsibility

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Date: 24/07/2020 11:55:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1595029
Subject: re: China

transition said:


dv said:

transition said:

the word complicit has a long association with law, used in different things written up, has a legal definition, loosely it goes to how someone might be involved (in something that may be bad)

you know, going to more a generalization with the word, a person might ask are most humans complicit in global overpopulation, a wobbly climate, destruction of environments through overpopulation, is the intelligent human species an arrogant species, do they kill millions of animals each day to live, do they breed and harvest animals for food, is the intelligent species really a cunt species and ought seriously consider self-extinction

there’s really no end to the complicity, if you want it, want to go there

Yes. There are shades of responsibility but as long as everyone feels a little bit, things should get better.

i’d guess humans dilute responsibility with their numbers, give the responsibilities to others, in fact if enough people do this successfully nobody really takes responsibility, so i’ll be happier when there’s twenty billion people on the earth, the abundance will further dilute my responsibility

This is democracy at work.

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Date: 16/10/2020 16:23:30
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1634161
Subject: re: China

China calls its “heroic” handling of covid-19 proof of its wisdom
A lopsided global recovery amid Chinese bragging could sharpen divisions between China and the West

China
Oct 17th 2020 edition

Aseries of failures made 2020 a rough year for China’s relations with the world. First, Chinese officials—following the logic of their unaccountable, secretive one-party system—failed to report an unknown virus in the central city of Wuhan for several critical weeks, giving covid-19 time to take hold. More failures followed. As one foreign government after another botched its own response, China’s rulers refused to take any blame for the pandemic, instead slapping economic sanctions on such countries as Australia that called for inquiries into the outbreak’s origins. The costs are plain to see: a recent survey of rich countries by the Pew Research Centre found soaring distrust of China (with negative views in Australia jumping 24 percentage points since last year).

That political gulf between China and the world is set to widen. This time, the cause will be asymmetric success. China has effectively controlled covid-19 and its economy is returning to life. Meanwhile, governments in America, Europe and beyond face second waves of infections and business bankruptcies and exploding public deficits. Several elected incumbents will lose office.

Amid that global misery, China’s leaders call their country’s recovery proof that Communist Party rule offers a uniquely effective blend of organisational prowess, respect for science, and traditional Chinese morality. They are about to discover how provocative that boasting will sound to many in the rest of the world. Foreign anger will in turn prompt resentment within China. Ordinary Chinese remember the collective sacrifices made by hundreds of millions of citizens who stopped transmission by staying indoors for weeks, often without pay. Glib lines from Western politicians about admiring China’s people and opposing the Communist Party will not help. People are complicated. It is possible for Chinese citizens to remember their leaders’ early mistakes, to resent officials for thuggishly enforcing lockdowns, and at the same time to agree that the country’s pandemic response is a source of national pride. Modern China’s story is not one of oppressed masses all yearning to be free. Party bosses stake their claim to rule on making people’s lives better. Their China is a majoritarian project that enjoys broad, if unknowable, public support. The headache for foreign governments is how to respond when the party crushes minorities that get in the way, whether ethnic, religious or political.

Covid-19 has given a fresh edge to arguments about which political system is best. It is hard to overstate how bad the West’s handling of the virus looks to ordinary Chinese. It is heartbreaking to hear Western-educated liberals wonder whether democracy is being exposed as selfish and disorderly. Longtime admirers of America watch President Donald Trump blaming their country for unleashing a “China virus” on the world, and hear a horrifying incitement to racial hatred. Chinese nationalists feel vindicated.

Diplomats in Beijing compare covid-19 to the global financial crisis of 2008, another event that convinced many Chinese leaders that the West is in long-term decline. Arguably, this pandemic is a more perilous moment. For one thing, in 2008 the credit crunch was a crisis discussed between Chinese and Western elites. Few American or European voters either knew or cared that global growth was being sustained by massive Chinese investments in domestic infrastructure. For another, China was not on the defensive. Elites in Beijing were tut-tutting observers of a crisis created in the West. As one Chinese leader told Americans in 2008: “You were our teacher, and the teacher doesn’t look very smart.”

This time, on both sides, elites and regular folk have strong views about covid-19. In Beijing, Western diplomats recall this pandemic year with real bitterness. They remember the dark days of January and February as their home governments cancelled scheduled flights to and from China, and pleaded for permission to evacuate citizens from Wuhan, only to be summoned for hours-long meetings at the Chinese foreign ministry, where officials angrily accused them of sowing panic and insulting China. With unblushing hypocrisy, China then turned round and sealed its borders still more tightly a few weeks later, after foreign infection rates climbed. Early on, foreign countries were asked to send medical aid to China without any publicity, and complied. Later, when they sought to buy Chinese ventilators for their own patients, they were told that the price included public praise for China.

Why China’s return to growth will inspire mixed feelings
Far from the embassies in Beijing, foreign views of China have soured dramatically, too. In the Pew survey of public opinion in advanced economies, a median of 61% of respondents deplored China’s handling of covid-19. Chinese officials blame such criticism on scapegoating by anti-China hawks in America. That is self-serving tosh. Thirteen of the 14 countries polled were even harsher about America’s covid blunders. The survey is a record of public displeasure over mistakes made, not a festival of China-bashing.

Foreign scepticism about China’s record is not entirely fair. Some in the West speculate that China is hiding mass infections. That is improbable: despite strict censorship, news of another Wuhan-like catastrophe would leak. Instead, after early cover-ups, China’s response has been simple but effective. Since late March it has closed its borders to most foreigners, built high-tech systems to monitor domestic travel and attacked even small flare-ups with lockdowns and mass testing. After announcing a dozen cases on October 11th, the coastal city of Qingdao began testing 9m people.

Yet a core claim made by the party is also false—that its crushing of covid-19 proves the unique advantages of autocracy. Off China’s coast, the democratic island of Taiwan has handled the virus brilliantly, recording just seven deaths in a population of 23m.

The arguments will not stop even if vaccines are found to beat the virus back. Shared suffering did not bring the world together in 2020. Alas, a lopsided global recovery, especially if accompanied by Chinese bragging, risks creating still sharper divisions. ■

https://www.economist.com/china/2020/10/17/china-calls-its-heroic-handling-of-covid-19-proof-of-its-wisdom

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Date: 11/11/2020 20:07:03
From: dv
ID: 1647908
Subject: re: China

Hong Kong disqualifies four pro-democracy lawmakers after China ruling

Four opposition pro-democracy lawmakers in Hong Kong have been disqualified with immediate effect.

The expulsion came moments after Beijing passed a resolution allowing the government to disqualify politicians deemed a threat to national security.

The move is being seen as the latest attempt by China to restrict Hong Kong’s freedoms.

Other pro-democracy lawmakers are expected to resign in protest.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54899171

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