Out-of-control clotting can endanger some patients even after the virus has gone. Researchers are trying to understand the problem and how to treat it.

Inflammation due to infection can also tip those clotting-factor dominoes. But as Covid-19 patients filled hospital wards, it became apparent that their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections. The clots filled needles used to draw blood, or the tubing connecting patients to medication drips and machines. “Everything was clotting,” Al-Samkari says.

The consequences can be devastating. In a July report in the journal Blood, Al-Samkari and colleagues found that nearly 10 percent of 400 people hospitalized for Covid-19 developed clots. In a February report by researchers in China, about 70 percent of people who died of Covid-19 had widespread clotting, while few survivors did. And in a July article in the New England Journal of Medicine, autopsies revealed that the lungs of people who died of Covid-19 were nine times as likely to be speckled with tiny clots as those of people who died of influenza.

What Laurence finds downright “spooky” is that all this clotting happens in spite of the common US practice of prescribing blood thinners, such as heparin, to hospital patients to ward off clotting.

A third possibility is that clotting results from inflammation. And here, many experts are eyeing a set of proteins called the complement system. These proteins, known collectively as complement, attack invaders and call in other parts of the immune system to assist. They also can activate platelets and promote clotting.

Like the clotting cascade, the proteins of the complement system are activated in sequence, and scientists now know that SARS-CoV-2 can directly activate one of them, Laurence says. So can damaged body tissues, which build up during the virus’s attack.

In addition to complement, another immune element may promote clotting in severe Covid-19 cases: an overreaction called a cytokine storm, in which the body releases an excess of inflammation-promoting cytokine molecules. “Your whole system gets revved up,” Atkinson says. “When it’s revved up, your clotting system gets revved up, because it senses danger.”

For clotting, there are blood thinners like heparin. Hematologists are hotly debating how much to use for Covid-19 patients, Al-Samkari says, because doctors must balance the risk of clotting with the danger of bleeding. Al-Samkari has most often observed bleeds into the digestive system for these patients, but they may also hemorrhage in the lungs, brain or spots where medical devices pierce the skin.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-blood-clots-are-major-problem-severe-covid-19-180975678/

PermeateFree said:

Out-of-control clotting can endanger some patients even after the virus has gone. Researchers are trying to understand the problem and how to treat it.

Inflammation due to infection can also tip those clotting-factor dominoes. But as Covid-19 patients filled hospital wards, it became apparent that their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections. The clots filled needles used to draw blood, or the tubing connecting patients to medication drips and machines. “Everything was clotting,” Al-Samkari says.

The consequences can be devastating. In a July report in the journal Blood, Al-Samkari and colleagues found that nearly 10 percent of 400 people hospitalized for Covid-19 developed clots. In a February report by researchers in China, about 70 percent of people who died of Covid-19 had widespread clotting, while few survivors did. And in a July article in the New England Journal of Medicine, autopsies revealed that the lungs of people who died of Covid-19 were nine times as likely to be speckled with tiny clots as those of people who died of influenza.

What Laurence finds downright “spooky” is that all this clotting happens in spite of the common US practice of prescribing blood thinners, such as heparin, to hospital patients to ward off clotting.

A third possibility is that clotting results from inflammation. And here, many experts are eyeing a set of proteins called the complement system. These proteins, known collectively as complement, attack invaders and call in other parts of the immune system to assist. They also can activate platelets and promote clotting.

Like the clotting cascade, the proteins of the complement system are activated in sequence, and scientists now know that SARS-CoV-2 can directly activate one of them, Laurence says. So can damaged body tissues, which build up during the virus’s attack.

In addition to complement, another immune element may promote clotting in severe Covid-19 cases: an overreaction called a cytokine storm, in which the body releases an excess of inflammation-promoting cytokine molecules. “Your whole system gets revved up,” Atkinson says. “When it’s revved up, your clotting system gets revved up, because it senses danger.”

For clotting, there are blood thinners like heparin. Hematologists are hotly debating how much to use for Covid-19 patients, Al-Samkari says, because doctors must balance the risk of clotting with the danger of bleeding. Al-Samkari has most often observed bleeds into the digestive system for these patients, but they may also hemorrhage in the lungs, brain or spots where medical devices pierce the skin.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-blood-clots-are-major-problem-severe-covid-19-180975678/

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Out-of-control clotting can endanger some patients even after the virus has gone. Researchers are trying to understand the problem and how to treat it.

Inflammation due to infection can also tip those clotting-factor dominoes. But as Covid-19 patients filled hospital wards, it became apparent that their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections. The clots filled needles used to draw blood, or the tubing connecting patients to medication drips and machines. “Everything was clotting,” Al-Samkari says.

The consequences can be devastating. In a July report in the journal Blood, Al-Samkari and colleagues found that nearly 10 percent of 400 people hospitalized for Covid-19 developed clots. In a February report by researchers in China, about 70 percent of people who died of Covid-19 had widespread clotting, while few survivors did. And in a July article in the New England Journal of Medicine, autopsies revealed that the lungs of people who died of Covid-19 were nine times as likely to be speckled with tiny clots as those of people who died of influenza.

What Laurence finds downright “spooky” is that all this clotting happens in spite of the common US practice of prescribing blood thinners, such as heparin, to hospital patients to ward off clotting.

A third possibility is that clotting results from inflammation. And here, many experts are eyeing a set of proteins called the complement system. These proteins, known collectively as complement, attack invaders and call in other parts of the immune system to assist. They also can activate platelets and promote clotting.

Like the clotting cascade, the proteins of the complement system are activated in sequence, and scientists now know that SARS-CoV-2 can directly activate one of them, Laurence says. So can damaged body tissues, which build up during the virus’s attack.

In addition to complement, another immune element may promote clotting in severe Covid-19 cases: an overreaction called a cytokine storm, in which the body releases an excess of inflammation-promoting cytokine molecules. “Your whole system gets revved up,” Atkinson says. “When it’s revved up, your clotting system gets revved up, because it senses danger.”

For clotting, there are blood thinners like heparin. Hematologists are hotly debating how much to use for Covid-19 patients, Al-Samkari says, because doctors must balance the risk of clotting with the danger of bleeding. Al-Samkari has most often observed bleeds into the digestive system for these patients, but they may also hemorrhage in the lungs, brain or spots where medical devices pierce the skin.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-blood-clots-are-major-problem-severe-covid-19-180975678/

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

It is just not deaths, but long term incapacity for people of all ages. However it does indicate why children and younger people fair better due to their younger and less damaged vascular system. There is still so much we don’t know about this virus which is proving to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Out-of-control clotting can endanger some patients even after the virus has gone. Researchers are trying to understand the problem and how to treat it.

Inflammation due to infection can also tip those clotting-factor dominoes. But as Covid-19 patients filled hospital wards, it became apparent that their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections. The clots filled needles used to draw blood, or the tubing connecting patients to medication drips and machines. “Everything was clotting,” Al-Samkari says.

The consequences can be devastating. In a July report in the journal Blood, Al-Samkari and colleagues found that nearly 10 percent of 400 people hospitalized for Covid-19 developed clots. In a February report by researchers in China, about 70 percent of people who died of Covid-19 had widespread clotting, while few survivors did. And in a July article in the New England Journal of Medicine, autopsies revealed that the lungs of people who died of Covid-19 were nine times as likely to be speckled with tiny clots as those of people who died of influenza.

What Laurence finds downright “spooky” is that all this clotting happens in spite of the common US practice of prescribing blood thinners, such as heparin, to hospital patients to ward off clotting.

A third possibility is that clotting results from inflammation. And here, many experts are eyeing a set of proteins called the complement system. These proteins, known collectively as complement, attack invaders and call in other parts of the immune system to assist. They also can activate platelets and promote clotting.

Like the clotting cascade, the proteins of the complement system are activated in sequence, and scientists now know that SARS-CoV-2 can directly activate one of them, Laurence says. So can damaged body tissues, which build up during the virus’s attack.

In addition to complement, another immune element may promote clotting in severe Covid-19 cases: an overreaction called a cytokine storm, in which the body releases an excess of inflammation-promoting cytokine molecules. “Your whole system gets revved up,” Atkinson says. “When it’s revved up, your clotting system gets revved up, because it senses danger.”

For clotting, there are blood thinners like heparin. Hematologists are hotly debating how much to use for Covid-19 patients, Al-Samkari says, because doctors must balance the risk of clotting with the danger of bleeding. Al-Samkari has most often observed bleeds into the digestive system for these patients, but they may also hemorrhage in the lungs, brain or spots where medical devices pierce the skin.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-blood-clots-are-major-problem-severe-covid-19-180975678/

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

https://medium.com/@gidmk/covid-19-deaths-are-mostly-caused-by-coronavirus-2a6d2d43bd09

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Out-of-control clotting can endanger some patients even after the virus has gone. Researchers are trying to understand the problem and how to treat it.

Inflammation due to infection can also tip those clotting-factor dominoes. But as Covid-19 patients filled hospital wards, it became apparent that their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections. The clots filled needles used to draw blood, or the tubing connecting patients to medication drips and machines. “Everything was clotting,” Al-Samkari says.

The consequences can be devastating. In a July report in the journal Blood, Al-Samkari and colleagues found that nearly 10 percent of 400 people hospitalized for Covid-19 developed clots. In a February report by researchers in China, about 70 percent of people who died of Covid-19 had widespread clotting, while few survivors did. And in a July article in the New England Journal of Medicine, autopsies revealed that the lungs of people who died of Covid-19 were nine times as likely to be speckled with tiny clots as those of people who died of influenza.

What Laurence finds downright “spooky” is that all this clotting happens in spite of the common US practice of prescribing blood thinners, such as heparin, to hospital patients to ward off clotting.

A third possibility is that clotting results from inflammation. And here, many experts are eyeing a set of proteins called the complement system. These proteins, known collectively as complement, attack invaders and call in other parts of the immune system to assist. They also can activate platelets and promote clotting.

Like the clotting cascade, the proteins of the complement system are activated in sequence, and scientists now know that SARS-CoV-2 can directly activate one of them, Laurence says. So can damaged body tissues, which build up during the virus’s attack.

In addition to complement, another immune element may promote clotting in severe Covid-19 cases: an overreaction called a cytokine storm, in which the body releases an excess of inflammation-promoting cytokine molecules. “Your whole system gets revved up,” Atkinson says. “When it’s revved up, your clotting system gets revved up, because it senses danger.”

For clotting, there are blood thinners like heparin. Hematologists are hotly debating how much to use for Covid-19 patients, Al-Samkari says, because doctors must balance the risk of clotting with the danger of bleeding. Al-Samkari has most often observed bleeds into the digestive system for these patients, but they may also hemorrhage in the lungs, brain or spots where medical devices pierce the skin.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-blood-clots-are-major-problem-severe-covid-19-180975678/

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

It is just not deaths, but long term incapacity for people of all ages. However it does indicate why children and younger people fair better due to their younger and less damaged vascular system. There is still so much we don’t know about this virus which is proving to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

Sounds like you should try and catch it and provide up with a detailed analysis.

not to do with the immune response to the virus activity on or in endothelial cells(maybe they are called, can’t recall now)

was thinking the other day too, cell turnover in the body, with age (and disease) a lot of cells (if they) have come to the maximum amounts of times they can replicate, or whatever they do, or the immune response pushes the last of them over, apoptosis, what then

ChrispenEvan said:

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Out-of-control clotting can endanger some patients even after the virus has gone. Researchers are trying to understand the problem and how to treat it.

Inflammation due to infection can also tip those clotting-factor dominoes. But as Covid-19 patients filled hospital wards, it became apparent that their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections. The clots filled needles used to draw blood, or the tubing connecting patients to medication drips and machines. “Everything was clotting,” Al-Samkari says.

The consequences can be devastating. In a July report in the journal Blood, Al-Samkari and colleagues found that nearly 10 percent of 400 people hospitalized for Covid-19 developed clots. In a February report by researchers in China, about 70 percent of people who died of Covid-19 had widespread clotting, while few survivors did. And in a July article in the New England Journal of Medicine, autopsies revealed that the lungs of people who died of Covid-19 were nine times as likely to be speckled with tiny clots as those of people who died of influenza.

What Laurence finds downright “spooky” is that all this clotting happens in spite of the common US practice of prescribing blood thinners, such as heparin, to hospital patients to ward off clotting.

A third possibility is that clotting results from inflammation. And here, many experts are eyeing a set of proteins called the complement system. These proteins, known collectively as complement, attack invaders and call in other parts of the immune system to assist. They also can activate platelets and promote clotting.

Like the clotting cascade, the proteins of the complement system are activated in sequence, and scientists now know that SARS-CoV-2 can directly activate one of them, Laurence says. So can damaged body tissues, which build up during the virus’s attack.

In addition to complement, another immune element may promote clotting in severe Covid-19 cases: an overreaction called a cytokine storm, in which the body releases an excess of inflammation-promoting cytokine molecules. “Your whole system gets revved up,” Atkinson says. “When it’s revved up, your clotting system gets revved up, because it senses danger.”

For clotting, there are blood thinners like heparin. Hematologists are hotly debating how much to use for Covid-19 patients, Al-Samkari says, because doctors must balance the risk of clotting with the danger of bleeding. Al-Samkari has most often observed bleeds into the digestive system for these patients, but they may also hemorrhage in the lungs, brain or spots where medical devices pierce the skin.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-blood-clots-are-major-problem-severe-covid-19-180975678/

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

https://medium.com/@gidmk/covid-19-deaths-are-mostly-caused-by-coronavirus-2a6d2d43bd09

They could alter it to say direct Covid related death and deaths resulting from complications caused by Covid

mollwollfumble said:

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

Yes, it’s almost like there has been a large fall in the infection rate, and there is a few weeks lag in the death rate.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

Yes, it’s almost like there has been a large fall in the infection rate, and there is a few weeks lag in the death rate.

the diversity of hosts increases, which increases the numbers of post viral conditions, and mortality, an expression of the span of vulnerabilities, the lag you mention is part of that

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Yeah yeah, so old people happen to have a stroke while they are in the middle of a Covid-19 episode. It’s still registered as a death due to Covid-19.

> their clotting was more frequent, more widespread and more severe than in other infections

Worth looking into this.

The other annoyance I’m having is that people who recover from Covid-19 but have caught hospital-aquired-pneumonia while in hospital for Covid are also registered as a Covid-19 death.

Have you noticed how the Covid mortality rate in Australia has soared from an initial 0.7% mortality for the start of the first wave, increased to 1.3% due to cruise ships in the first wave. And is now sitting on in excess of 10% at this part of the second wave.

Yes, it’s almost like there has been a large fall in the infection rate, and there is a few weeks lag in the death rate.

the diversity of hosts increases, which increases the numbers of post viral conditions, and mortality, an expression of the span of vulnerabilities, the lag you mention is part of that

You’re over complicating it.

The lag is because the deaths occur some time after the infection.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes, it’s almost like there has been a large fall in the infection rate, and there is a few weeks lag in the death rate.

the diversity of hosts increases, which increases the numbers of post viral conditions, and mortality, an expression of the span of vulnerabilities, the lag you mention is part of that

You’re over complicating it.

The lag is because the deaths occur some time after the infection.

Whoa, slow down, Poindexter.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes, it’s almost like there has been a large fall in the infection rate, and there is a few weeks lag in the death rate.

the diversity of hosts increases, which increases the numbers of post viral conditions, and mortality, an expression of the span of vulnerabilities, the lag you mention is part of that

You’re over complicating it.

The lag is because the deaths occur some time after the infection.

yeah I know that, i’ve said it before

there’s another aspect though, the span of vulnerabilities does increase with numbers infected

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

the diversity of hosts increases, which increases the numbers of post viral conditions, and mortality, an expression of the span of vulnerabilities, the lag you mention is part of that

You’re over complicating it.

The lag is because the deaths occur some time after the infection.

yeah I know that, i’ve said it before

there’s another aspect though, the span of vulnerabilities does increase with numbers infected

> The lag is because the deaths occur some time after the infection.

There’s more to it than that, though. If that were the only cause then the curve for death rate would follow the curve for number of cases, with a time lag.

That was true for first wave – all through the world. Depending on strain of coronavirus, the time lag was between 6 days and 12 days. eg. 6 days for China, 12 days for France, and a combination of three different time lags for Ecuador.

But for second wave, in Australia, USA and Iran for starters, it does not hold true at all.