Trump on coronavirus: If US has 100,000 to 200,000 deaths, we’ve done a ‘good job’

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/trump-on-coronavirus-if-us-has-100000-to-200000-deaths-weve-done-a-good-job.html

Blast from the past

dv said:

Trump on coronavirus: If US has 100,000 to 200,000 deaths, we’ve done a ‘good job’

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/trump-on-coronavirus-if-us-has-100000-to-200000-deaths-weve-done-a-good-job.html

Blast from the past

Deaths USA 9/14/2020 = 194K

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Trump on coronavirus: If US has 100,000 to 200,000 deaths, we’ve done a ‘good job’

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/trump-on-coronavirus-if-us-has-100000-to-200000-deaths-weve-done-a-good-job.html

Blast from the past

Deaths USA 9/14/2020 = 194K

They look set in to overpass that figure.

I wonder what it will be?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Trump on coronavirus: If US has 100,000 to 200,000 deaths, we’ve done a ‘good job’

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/trump-on-coronavirus-if-us-has-100000-to-200000-deaths-weve-done-a-good-job.html

Blast from the past

Deaths USA 9/14/2020 = 194K

They look set in to overpass that figure.

I wonder what it will be?

I think like the flu this thing is here to stay so there will be no final figure.

Did any of you see the article on ABC last week about the 1918 flu? It took three years for that to cause enough herd immunity so it wasn’t such a problem… However we aren’t sure that COVID will cause herd immunity. Different strains and reinfection and so on and so forth.

Divine Angel said:

Did any of you see the article on ABC last week about the 1918 flu? It took three years for that to cause enough herd immunity so it wasn’t such a problem… However we aren’t sure that COVID will cause herd immunity. Different strains and reinfection and so on and so forth.

It’s the End of the World as We Know It

Bogsnorkler said:

Divine Angel said:

Did any of you see the article on ABC last week about the 1918 flu? It took three years for that to cause enough herd immunity so it wasn’t such a problem… However we aren’t sure that COVID will cause herd immunity. Different strains and reinfection and so on and so forth.

It’s the End of the World as We Know It

I feel fine.

Divine Angel said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Divine Angel said:

Did any of you see the article on ABC last week about the 1918 flu? It took three years for that to cause enough herd immunity so it wasn’t such a problem… However we aren’t sure that COVID will cause herd immunity. Different strains and reinfection and so on and so forth.

It’s the End of the World as We Know It

I feel fine.

and you try telling that to some forum members and they just won’t get it!

Bogsnorkler said:

Divine Angel said:

Bogsnorkler said:

It’s the End of the World as We Know It

I feel fine.

and you try telling that to some forum members and they just won’t get it!

Pretty sure it’s you, me, Rule, Witty and DV holding up the pop culture aspects.

Queensland’s Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young has been placed under police protection after receiving death threats.
……………………………………….
Bloody hell!
……………………………………….

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-14/coronavirus-australia-live-news-victoria-business-funding/12659778

Bogsnorkler said:

Divine Angel said:

Bogsnorkler said:

It’s the End of the World as We Know It

I feel fine.

and you try telling that to some forum members and they just won’t get it!

I got it.

sibeen said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Divine Angel said:

I feel fine.

and you try telling that to some forum members and they just won’t get it!

I got it.

a stopped clock is right twice a day unless it is a 24hr one then it is only right once a day.

sibeen said:

Bogsnorkler said:

and you try telling that to some forum members and they just won’t get it!

I got it.

I forgot
My shirt
The water’s edge

Bogsnorkler said:

a stopped clock is right twice a day unless it is a 24hr one then it is only right once a day.

You also have to allow for possible leap seconds.

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Trump on coronavirus: If US has 100,000 to 200,000 deaths, we’ve done a ‘good job’

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/trump-on-coronavirus-if-us-has-100000-to-200000-deaths-weve-done-a-good-job.html

Blast from the past

Deaths USA 9/14/2020 = 194K

so they’ve done a good job

Divine Angel said:

Did any of you see the article on ABC last week about the 1918 flu? It took three years for that to cause enough herd immunity so it wasn’t such a problem… However we aren’t sure that COVID will cause herd immunity. Different strains and reinfection and so on and so forth.

what if we told you there was something people could do that was at least as effective as flock immunity

what if we told you it would involve negligible risk of harm and certainly not 1% risk of death or 5% risk of significant disability like COVID-19

what if we told you it would also reduce the ability of authorities in a police state to identify and arrest you, or otherwise be an opportunity to put on a fashion accessory

what if there was such a thing as flock fucking just wear some damn masks

Michael V said:

Queensland’s Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young has been placed under police protection after receiving death threats.
……………………………………….
Bloody hell!
……………………………………….

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-14/coronavirus-australia-live-news-victoria-business-funding/12659778

probably those murderously criminal ANTIFA terrorists

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/pandemic-rebel-sweden-plots-its-economic-recovery-20200914-p55v90.html

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

Rule 303 said:

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

And the lights all went out in Massachusetts…

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

And the lights all went out in Massachusetts…

lol

Rule 303 said:

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

chuck a comparison on Oregon and New Zealand.

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

And the lights all went out in Massachusetts…

Sings ‘I’m not going back to Massachusetts (Hand cupped over one ear)

sarahs mum said:

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

And the lights all went out in Massachusetts…

Sings ‘I’m not going back to Massachusetts (Hand cupped over one ear)

Barry always cupped his ear.

sarahs mum said:

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

And the lights all went out in Massachusetts…

Sings ‘I’m not going back to Massachusetts (Hand cupped over one ear)

Are you impersonating that Isle of Man kid again?

AMA tells critics to ‘back off’ Queensland over border disputes as Qantas launches campaign

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/09/14/queensland-coronavirus-border-doctors/

dv said:

Good one.

dv said:

IT’s sewing on Enterprise? I’m out…

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

IT’s sewing on Enterprise? I’m out…

please make it so.

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

IT’s sewing on Enterprise? I’m out…

please make it so.

Heh.

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

IT’s sewing on Enterprise? I’m out…

The clown doesn’t want to end up as bald as the fellow behind him, so he’s sewing an extra patch of red hair to go between his existing two tufts.

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

This just in: All ‘mericans are stupid.

And the lights all went out in Massachusetts…

They brought me back to see my way with you

I’ve been giving Morrison qualified praise for his overall Covid response over the last few months but he’s losing points with me recently due to the pressure he is applying to Qld and WA (but, curiously, not to SA or Tas) to open their borders.

dv said:

I’ve been giving Morrison qualified praise for his overall Covid response over the last few months but he’s losing points with me recently due to the pressure he is applying to Qld and WA (but, curiously, not to SA or Tas) to open their borders.

Yet Annastacia and Dr Jeanette are the ones being harassed. Go figure.

Divine Angel said:

dv said:

I’ve been giving Morrison qualified praise for his overall Covid response over the last few months but he’s losing points with me recently due to the pressure he is applying to Qld and WA (but, curiously, not to SA or Tas) to open their borders.

Yet Annastacia and Dr Jeanette are the ones being harassed. Go figure.

Qld Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk swaid she is prepared to lose the election before opening borders.

Tamb said:

Divine Angel said:

dv said:

I’ve been giving Morrison qualified praise for his overall Covid response over the last few months but he’s losing points with me recently due to the pressure he is applying to Qld and WA (but, curiously, not to SA or Tas) to open their borders.

Yet Annastacia and Dr Jeanette are the ones being harassed. Go figure.

Qld Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk swaid she is prepared to lose the election before opening borders.

Interestingly, Deb Freckleface hasn’t said anything about her border opening policy. May be waiting until closer to the election; anything can happen between now and then.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-in-indonesia/

Local authorities in Indonesia ordered eight people who broke the country’s face mask laws to dig graves for COVID-19 victims, according to a report.

The province of East Java punished the mask violators with the manual labor at a local cemetery in hopes of deterring others from disregarding the nationwide face-covering mandate, the Jakarta Post reported.

“There are only three available gravediggers at the moment, so I thought I might as well put these people to work with them,” politician Suyono told local media, according to the paper.

“Hopefully this can create a deterrent effect against violations,” he added.

dv said:

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-in-indonesia/

Local authorities in Indonesia ordered eight people who broke the country’s face mask laws to dig graves for COVID-19 victims, according to a report.

The province of East Java punished the mask violators with the manual labor at a local cemetery in hopes of deterring others from disregarding the nationwide face-covering mandate, the Jakarta Post reported.

“There are only three available gravediggers at the moment, so I thought I might as well put these people to work with them,” politician Suyono told local media, according to the paper.

“Hopefully this can create a deterrent effect against violations,” he added.

Like.

Michael V said:

dv said:

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-in-indonesia/

Local authorities in Indonesia ordered eight people who broke the country’s face mask laws to dig graves for COVID-19 victims, according to a report.

The province of East Java punished the mask violators with the manual labor at a local cemetery in hopes of deterring others from disregarding the nationwide face-covering mandate, the Jakarta Post reported.

“There are only three available gravediggers at the moment, so I thought I might as well put these people to work with them,” politician Suyono told local media, according to the paper.

“Hopefully this can create a deterrent effect against violations,” he added.

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

ruby said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-in-indonesia/

Local authorities in Indonesia ordered eight people who broke the country’s face mask laws to dig graves for COVID-19 victims, according to a report.

The province of East Java punished the mask violators with the manual labor at a local cemetery in hopes of deterring others from disregarding the nationwide face-covering mandate, the Jakarta Post reported.

“There are only three available gravediggers at the moment, so I thought I might as well put these people to work with them,” politician Suyono told local media, according to the paper.

“Hopefully this can create a deterrent effect against violations,” he added.

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

When we lived there we saw prisoners cutting the President’s lawn……………………… with scissors.

ruby said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-in-indonesia/

Local authorities in Indonesia ordered eight people who broke the country’s face mask laws to dig graves for COVID-19 victims, according to a report.

The province of East Java punished the mask violators with the manual labor at a local cemetery in hopes of deterring others from disregarding the nationwide face-covering mandate, the Jakarta Post reported.

“There are only three available gravediggers at the moment, so I thought I might as well put these people to work with them,” politician Suyono told local media, according to the paper.

“Hopefully this can create a deterrent effect against violations,” he added.

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

Hands up all the people who have actually driven a shovel for more than ten minutes?

It takes months to develop the fitness and technique and skin to drive a shovel for a whole day. This sounds more like torture than punishment. I predict the suckers would be blistered and bleeding within 15 minutes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/wa-could-take-more-international-arrivals-detention-centres/12664460

Mr buffy and I were talking about this in the car yesterday. I can’t see any problems….island holiday for two weeks. Test in. Test out. Test if symptoms. Other than that, just open living in the compound. Of course, segregate any positive testers. Surely better than confined to a hotel room anyway isn’t it? If you are still worried, then get them to do an extra week confined to home.

Rule 303 said:

ruby said:

Michael V said:

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

Hands up all the people who have actually driven a shovel for more than ten minutes?

It takes months to develop the fitness and technique and skin to drive a shovel for a whole day. This sounds more like torture than punishment. I predict the suckers would be blistered and bleeding within 15 minutes.

It does sound cruel & unusual.

Rule 303 said:

ruby said:

Michael V said:

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

Hands up all the people who have actually driven a shovel for more than ten minutes?

It takes months to develop the fitness and technique and skin to drive a shovel for a whole day. This sounds more like torture than punishment. I predict the suckers would be blistered and bleeding within 15 minutes.

using a spade to dig a hole would be easier.

Rule 303 said:

ruby said:

Michael V said:

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

Hands up all the people who have actually driven a shovel for more than ten minutes?

It takes months to develop the fitness and technique and skin to drive a shovel for a whole day. This sounds more like torture than punishment. I predict the suckers would be blistered and bleeding within 15 minutes.

Puts hand up (but I do wear gloves)…including levering up rocks. But I find I can’t do it as “easily” as 20 years ago. I spent about 3 hours bent over and weeding this morning. My back is complaining and I don’t seem to be able to stand straight. I will have to get down on the ground and stretch.

Rule 303 said:

ruby said:

Michael V said:

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

Hands up all the people who have actually driven a shovel for more than ten minutes?

It takes months to develop the fitness and technique and skin to drive a shovel for a whole day. This sounds more like torture than punishment. I predict the suckers would be blistered and bleeding within 15 minutes.

Me. But its been a time. And I don’t think I’m going back there. I need to work on the gutter alongside the driveway. Easy shovelling as far as it goes. But it is going to go in many short goes.

Rule 303 said:

ruby said:

Michael V said:

Like.

Heh heh…. clever idea

Hands up all the people who have actually driven a shovel for more than ten minutes?

It takes months to develop the fitness and technique and skin to drive a shovel for a whole day. This sounds more like torture than punishment. I predict the suckers would be blistered and bleeding within 15 minutes.

I have shovelled for most of the day without ill affect, especially when prospecting. Just wear gloves if not used to it. Big thing is not to go too hard.

Michelle Loielo, 41, claims her business in Capel Sound, on the Mornington Peninsula, has been put under “significant pressure” due to Victoria’s stage four restrictions, which were put in place to control the state’s second surge of infections.

Ms Loielo, who has flagged her intention to run for Liberal Party preselection at the next state election, launched the legal action for the city’s curfew to be declared “unlawful and invalid”.

Ms Loielo said since the tough new measures were instituted, her business, which once turned over up to $20,000 a week, had been whittled away.

“Last week, I made $400,” she said in an affidavit to the court.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Crimea river. $400 + Jobkeeper = something to live on. How many customers do you wish to kill?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/melbourne-business-launches-legal-action-over-curfew-lockdown/12666444

Michael V said:

Michelle Loielo, 41, claims her business in Capel Sound, on the Mornington Peninsula, has been put under “significant pressure” due to Victoria’s stage four restrictions, which were put in place to control the state’s second surge of infections.

Ms Loielo, who has flagged her intention to run for Liberal Party preselection at the next state election, launched the legal action for the city’s curfew to be declared “unlawful and invalid”.

Ms Loielo said since the tough new measures were instituted, her business, which once turned over up to $20,000 a week, had been whittled away.

“Last week, I made $400,” she said in an affidavit to the court.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Crimea river. $400 + Jobkeeper = something to live on. How many customers do you wish to kill?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/melbourne-business-launches-legal-action-over-curfew-lockdown/12666444

Flock Immunity. If your business can’t survive COVER-19 (coronavirus economic restriction / 2019), then fold it or transform it into something COVER-19-resistant, until so many businesses in the domestic space are resistant that the economy will not suffer significant detriment every time COVER-19 is applied.

Michael V said:

Michelle Loielo, 41, claims her business in Capel Sound, on the Mornington Peninsula, has been put under “significant pressure” due to Victoria’s stage four restrictions, which were put in place to control the state’s second surge of infections.

Ms Loielo, who has flagged her intention to run for Liberal Party preselection at the next state election, launched the legal action for the city’s curfew to be declared “unlawful and invalid”.

Ms Loielo said since the tough new measures were instituted, her business, which once turned over up to $20,000 a week, had been whittled away.

“Last week, I made $400,” she said in an affidavit to the court.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Crimea river. $400 + Jobkeeper = something to live on. How many customers do you wish to kill?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/melbourne-business-launches-legal-action-over-curfew-lockdown/12666444

I had to read the article…it’s a cafe. How would the curfew affect a cafe?

Michael V said:

Michelle Loielo, 41, claims her business in Capel Sound, on the Mornington Peninsula, has been put under “significant pressure” due to Victoria’s stage four restrictions, which were put in place to control the state’s second surge of infections.

Ms Loielo, who has flagged her intention to run for Liberal Party preselection at the next state election, launched the legal action for the city’s curfew to be declared “unlawful and invalid”.

Ms Loielo said since the tough new measures were instituted, her business, which once turned over up to $20,000 a week, had been whittled away.

“Last week, I made $400,” she said in an affidavit to the court.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Crimea river. $400 + Jobkeeper = something to live on. How many customers do you wish to kill?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/melbourne-business-launches-legal-action-over-curfew-lockdown/12666444

LOL

I’m familiar with Michelle Loielo’s work from the local Facebook groups. She crazy in the coconut, the poor bugger.

buffy said:

Michael V said:

Michelle Loielo, 41, claims her business in Capel Sound, on the Mornington Peninsula, has been put under “significant pressure” due to Victoria’s stage four restrictions, which were put in place to control the state’s second surge of infections.

Ms Loielo, who has flagged her intention to run for Liberal Party preselection at the next state election, launched the legal action for the city’s curfew to be declared “unlawful and invalid”.

Ms Loielo said since the tough new measures were instituted, her business, which once turned over up to $20,000 a week, had been whittled away.

“Last week, I made $400,” she said in an affidavit to the court.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Crimea river. $400 + Jobkeeper = something to live on. How many customers do you wish to kill?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/melbourne-business-launches-legal-action-over-curfew-lockdown/12666444

I had to read the article…it’s a cafe. How would the curfew affect a cafe?

It’s an empty cafe in a sea-side tourist destination in the middle of winter.

I would think a $400 clear profit would be a very good week for her under normal conditions.

Quick check around the world.

Continuing mismatch between deaths and cases. The mismatch is getting wider.

When did India become number 2?

It’s number 2 for total cases, number 3 for total deaths. It could be on track to oust the US from the top spot.

This chart still not right for Djibouti, and perhaps other places.

Cold case
The southern hemisphere skipped flu season in 2020
Efforts to stop covid-19 have had at least one welcome side-effect

There is a good graph at the article that I cannot reproduce here for some reason.

Graphic detail
Sep 12th 2020 edition
SEP 12TH 2020

Every winter, from May to October, tens of thousands of Australians and New Zealanders are asked how they feel. More precisely, they are asked by their governments in weekly surveys if they have a cough or a fever. Although 2020 has been a difficult year in many ways for Aussies and Kiwis, it has not necessarily been bad for their physical health. This winter only around 0.4% of people in the two countries said they were suffering from flu-like symptoms, down by four-fifths compared with last year. Other countries in the southern hemisphere have reported similar slowdowns in the spread of influenza.

The cause for this steep decline in infections is clear. Governments all around the world have enacted costly lockdowns to fight the novel coronavirus. In doing so, not only have countries in the southern hemisphere slowed the spread of covid-19, but they also appear inadvertently to have stopped the proliferation of another deadly disease: the flu.

Since 1952 the World Health Organisation (who) has tracked influenza in member countries, relying on local partner laboratories to report both the number and types of viruses they detect. In the first two weeks of August, the who processed nearly 200,000 influenza tests, and found just 46 were positive. In a typical year, the number would be closer to 3,500.

One might worry that because health-care systems are strained, the declines in reported flu cases reflect reduced testing capacity, rather than a genuine reduction in infections. Fortunately, this is not so. who data are readily available in six countries in the southern hemisphere: Australia, Argentina, South Africa, Paraguay, New Zealand and Chile. There the total number of influenza tests has fallen by just 20%, while the share of tests that have come up positive has plummeted to record lows.

Data from Australia tell a remarkable tale. From May to mid-August of 2015-19, an average of 86,000 Australians tested positive for the flu each year, and around 130 died of it. This winter the government has registered only 627 influenza infections and just a single death.

The reduction in flu cases helps explain at least one puzzle in covid-19 data: some countries have seen a smaller increase in overall mortality than their covid-19 deaths would suggest. For instance, Chile has recorded around 9,800 covid-19 deaths from June to August 25th, but an increase of only about 8,800 deaths overall compared with the same period in 2015-19. It is possible that Chile is undercounting how many of its residents have died. But the near elimination of the flu has helped too.

Influenza cases may yet rise in the south both this year and next, since fewer people have developed immunities. Meanwhile, countries in the northern hemisphere should expect fewer flu cases since fewer will be imported from abroad, and most people are social distancing. Seasonal influenza kills an estimated 300,000-650,000 people annually. In a year filled with terrible news, a victory against the flu is a welcome respite.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/12/the-southern-hemisphere-skipped-flu-season-in-2020?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cold case
The southern hemisphere skipped flu season in 2020
Efforts to stop covid-19 have had at least one welcome side-effect

There is a good graph at the article that I cannot reproduce here for some reason.

Graphic detail
Sep 12th 2020 edition
SEP 12TH 2020

Every winter, from May to October, tens of thousands of Australians and New Zealanders are asked how they feel. More precisely, they are asked by their governments in weekly surveys if they have a cough or a fever. Although 2020 has been a difficult year in many ways for Aussies and Kiwis, it has not necessarily been bad for their physical health. This winter only around 0.4% of people in the two countries said they were suffering from flu-like symptoms, down by four-fifths compared with last year. Other countries in the southern hemisphere have reported similar slowdowns in the spread of influenza.

The cause for this steep decline in infections is clear. Governments all around the world have enacted costly lockdowns to fight the novel coronavirus. In doing so, not only have countries in the southern hemisphere slowed the spread of covid-19, but they also appear inadvertently to have stopped the proliferation of another deadly disease: the flu.

Since 1952 the World Health Organisation (who) has tracked influenza in member countries, relying on local partner laboratories to report both the number and types of viruses they detect. In the first two weeks of August, the who processed nearly 200,000 influenza tests, and found just 46 were positive. In a typical year, the number would be closer to 3,500.

One might worry that because health-care systems are strained, the declines in reported flu cases reflect reduced testing capacity, rather than a genuine reduction in infections. Fortunately, this is not so. who data are readily available in six countries in the southern hemisphere: Australia, Argentina, South Africa, Paraguay, New Zealand and Chile. There the total number of influenza tests has fallen by just 20%, while the share of tests that have come up positive has plummeted to record lows.

Data from Australia tell a remarkable tale. From May to mid-August of 2015-19, an average of 86,000 Australians tested positive for the flu each year, and around 130 died of it. This winter the government has registered only 627 influenza infections and just a single death.

The reduction in flu cases helps explain at least one puzzle in covid-19 data: some countries have seen a smaller increase in overall mortality than their covid-19 deaths would suggest. For instance, Chile has recorded around 9,800 covid-19 deaths from June to August 25th, but an increase of only about 8,800 deaths overall compared with the same period in 2015-19. It is possible that Chile is undercounting how many of its residents have died. But the near elimination of the flu has helped too.

Influenza cases may yet rise in the south both this year and next, since fewer people have developed immunities. Meanwhile, countries in the northern hemisphere should expect fewer flu cases since fewer will be imported from abroad, and most people are social distancing. Seasonal influenza kills an estimated 300,000-650,000 people annually. In a year filled with terrible news, a victory against the flu is a welcome respite.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/12/the-southern-hemisphere-skipped-flu-season-in-2020?

Ta.

mollwollfumble said:

Quick check around the world.

Continuing mismatch between deaths and cases. The mismatch is getting wider.

When did India become number 2?

It’s number 2 for total cases, number 3 for total deaths. It could be on track to oust the US from the top spot.

This chart still not right for Djibouti, and perhaps other places.

India got to No 2 quite some time ago (beginning Sept maybe).

Your graph would look very different if you divided by population, but India does look bad in terms of steadily increasing new cases.

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cold case
The southern hemisphere skipped flu season in 2020
Efforts to stop covid-19 have had at least one welcome side-effect

There is a good graph at the article that I cannot reproduce here for some reason.

Graphic detail
Sep 12th 2020 edition
SEP 12TH 2020

Every winter, from May to October, tens of thousands of Australians and New Zealanders are asked how they feel. More precisely, they are asked by their governments in weekly surveys if they have a cough or a fever. Although 2020 has been a difficult year in many ways for Aussies and Kiwis, it has not necessarily been bad for their physical health. This winter only around 0.4% of people in the two countries said they were suffering from flu-like symptoms, down by four-fifths compared with last year. Other countries in the southern hemisphere have reported similar slowdowns in the spread of influenza.

The cause for this steep decline in infections is clear. Governments all around the world have enacted costly lockdowns to fight the novel coronavirus. In doing so, not only have countries in the southern hemisphere slowed the spread of covid-19, but they also appear inadvertently to have stopped the proliferation of another deadly disease: the flu.

Since 1952 the World Health Organisation (who) has tracked influenza in member countries, relying on local partner laboratories to report both the number and types of viruses they detect. In the first two weeks of August, the who processed nearly 200,000 influenza tests, and found just 46 were positive. In a typical year, the number would be closer to 3,500.

One might worry that because health-care systems are strained, the declines in reported flu cases reflect reduced testing capacity, rather than a genuine reduction in infections. Fortunately, this is not so. who data are readily available in six countries in the southern hemisphere: Australia, Argentina, South Africa, Paraguay, New Zealand and Chile. There the total number of influenza tests has fallen by just 20%, while the share of tests that have come up positive has plummeted to record lows.

Data from Australia tell a remarkable tale. From May to mid-August of 2015-19, an average of 86,000 Australians tested positive for the flu each year, and around 130 died of it. This winter the government has registered only 627 influenza infections and just a single death.

The reduction in flu cases helps explain at least one puzzle in covid-19 data: some countries have seen a smaller increase in overall mortality than their covid-19 deaths would suggest. For instance, Chile has recorded around 9,800 covid-19 deaths from June to August 25th, but an increase of only about 8,800 deaths overall compared with the same period in 2015-19. It is possible that Chile is undercounting how many of its residents have died. But the near elimination of the flu has helped too.

Influenza cases may yet rise in the south both this year and next, since fewer people have developed immunities. Meanwhile, countries in the northern hemisphere should expect fewer flu cases since fewer will be imported from abroad, and most people are social distancing. Seasonal influenza kills an estimated 300,000-650,000 people annually. In a year filled with terrible news, a victory against the flu is a welcome respite.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/12/the-southern-hemisphere-skipped-flu-season-in-2020?

¿ so infection control measures work better than flock immunity ?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cold case
The southern hemisphere skipped flu season in 2020
Efforts to stop covid-19 have had at least one welcome side-effect

There is a good graph at the article that I cannot reproduce here for some reason.

Graphic detail
Sep 12th 2020 edition
SEP 12TH 2020

Every winter, from May to October, tens of thousands of Australians and New Zealanders are asked how they feel. More precisely, they are asked by their governments in weekly surveys if they have a cough or a fever. Although 2020 has been a difficult year in many ways for Aussies and Kiwis, it has not necessarily been bad for their physical health. This winter only around 0.4% of people in the two countries said they were suffering from flu-like symptoms, down by four-fifths compared with last year. Other countries in the southern hemisphere have reported similar slowdowns in the spread of influenza.

The cause for this steep decline in infections is clear. Governments all around the world have enacted costly lockdowns to fight the novel coronavirus. In doing so, not only have countries in the southern hemisphere slowed the spread of covid-19, but they also appear inadvertently to have stopped the proliferation of another deadly disease: the flu.

Since 1952 the World Health Organisation (who) has tracked influenza in member countries, relying on local partner laboratories to report both the number and types of viruses they detect. In the first two weeks of August, the who processed nearly 200,000 influenza tests, and found just 46 were positive. In a typical year, the number would be closer to 3,500.

One might worry that because health-care systems are strained, the declines in reported flu cases reflect reduced testing capacity, rather than a genuine reduction in infections. Fortunately, this is not so. who data are readily available in six countries in the southern hemisphere: Australia, Argentina, South Africa, Paraguay, New Zealand and Chile. There the total number of influenza tests has fallen by just 20%, while the share of tests that have come up positive has plummeted to record lows.

Data from Australia tell a remarkable tale. From May to mid-August of 2015-19, an average of 86,000 Australians tested positive for the flu each year, and around 130 died of it. This winter the government has registered only 627 influenza infections and just a single death.

The reduction in flu cases helps explain at least one puzzle in covid-19 data: some countries have seen a smaller increase in overall mortality than their covid-19 deaths would suggest. For instance, Chile has recorded around 9,800 covid-19 deaths from June to August 25th, but an increase of only about 8,800 deaths overall compared with the same period in 2015-19. It is possible that Chile is undercounting how many of its residents have died. But the near elimination of the flu has helped too.

Influenza cases may yet rise in the south both this year and next, since fewer people have developed immunities. Meanwhile, countries in the northern hemisphere should expect fewer flu cases since fewer will be imported from abroad, and most people are social distancing. Seasonal influenza kills an estimated 300,000-650,000 people annually. In a year filled with terrible news, a victory against the flu is a welcome respite.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/09/12/the-southern-hemisphere-skipped-flu-season-in-2020?

>>Data from Australia tell a remarkable tale. From May to mid-August of 2015-19, an average of 86,000 Australians tested positive for the flu each year, and around 130 died of it. This winter the government has registered only 627 influenza infections and just a single death.<<

Somewhere else I saw that 627 number. It’s not really the whole story. Have a look at the “Vaccine Preventable Diseases” section at the official notifications site: Lab confirmed flu 21,141cases. Admittedly, that is year to date, not May to mid August. But 2013 was a low flu year with 28,303 notifications. Last year was a doozy. While I agree the mid Winter notifications are down, and it can certainly be put down to general hygiene improvements, I think you need more of the story.

http://www9.health.gov.au/cda/source/rpt_2.cfm

By the way, that table is Quite Interesting. Whooping cough cases are way down. Most of the transmissibles are down. STDs are down.

buffy said:

I think you need more of the story.

Which is?

https://theshot.net.au/general-news/melbourne-is-not-a-city-in-revolt-the-truth-is-far-more-incredible-and-far-more-boring/

breaking news, DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF NORTH AMERICA virus kills thousands more Australians than COVID-19

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/mystery-death-rewrote-history-of-killer-disease-hiv-aids/12639410?nw=0

SCIENCE said:

breaking news, DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF NORTH AMERICA virus kills thousands more Australians than COVID-19

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/mystery-death-rewrote-history-of-killer-disease-hiv-aids/12639410?nw=0

I was under the impression that it came out of Africa.

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

I think you need more of the story.

Which is?

The stuff I linked in the post?

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

breaking news, DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF NORTH AMERICA virus kills thousands more Australians than COVID-19

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/mystery-death-rewrote-history-of-killer-disease-hiv-aids/12639410?nw=0

I was under the impression that it came out of Africa.

“Africa” does not appear in the article a single time

buffy said:

buffy said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

I think you need more of the story.

Which is?

The stuff I linked in the post?

http://www9.health.gov.au/cda/source/rpt_2.cfm

By the way, that table is Quite Interesting. Whooping cough cases are way down. Most of the transmissibles are down. STDs are down.

¿ so infection control measures work better than flock immunity ?

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

buffy said:

The stuff I linked in the post?

http://www9.health.gov.au/cda/source/rpt_2.cfm

By the way, that table is Quite Interesting. Whooping cough cases are way down. Most of the transmissibles are down. STDs are down.

¿ so infection control measures work better than flock immunity ?

Keep thyself two metres from the flock, get thee the flock away from there as quuickly as possible, wash thine hands well before picking thine nose.

buffy said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

I think you need more of the story.

Which is?

The stuff I linked in the post?

I’m interested to hear your interpretation.

(CNN)Department of Health and Human Services spokesman Michael Caputo on Tuesday apologized to staffers for a rant in which he accused career government scientists of “sedition” and working to undermine President Donald Trump, multiple sources familiar with the situation told CNN.

Caputo — a fierce defender of the President who was appointed to his post as assistant secretary of public affairs for HHS not long after the coronavirus pandemic began — mentioned a series of conspiracy theories in a Sunday live video on his personal Facebook page, including that there is a “resistance unit” against Trump inside the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Caputo claimed that he thinks former Vice President Joe Biden will refuse to concede the election should Trump win, and political violence will ensue.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/caputo-apologizes-hhs-staffers/index.html

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Which is?

The stuff I linked in the post?

I’m interested to hear your interpretation.

Hand washing and not coughing and spluttering all over other people works for reducing infectious diseases spread. But we’ve known that for a hundred years or so.

dv said:

(CNN)Department of Health and Human Services spokesman Michael Caputo on Tuesday apologized to staffers for a rant in which he accused career government scientists of “sedition” and working to undermine President Donald Trump, multiple sources familiar with the situation told CNN.

Caputo — a fierce defender of the President who was appointed to his post as assistant secretary of public affairs for HHS not long after the coronavirus pandemic began — mentioned a series of conspiracy theories in a Sunday live video on his personal Facebook page, including that there is a “resistance unit” against Trump inside the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Caputo claimed that he thinks former Vice President Joe Biden will refuse to concede the election should Trump win, and political violence will ensue.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/caputo-apologizes-hhs-staffers/index.html

Far out.

buffy said:

While I agree the mid Winter notifications are down, and it can certainly be put down to general hygiene improvements, I think you need more of the story

So you’re not alluding to anything besides the benefits of general hygiene here?

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

While I agree the mid Winter notifications are down, and it can certainly be put down to general hygiene improvements, I think you need more of the story

So you’re not alluding to anything besides the benefits of general hygiene here?

No

Oh, and I think next season is going to be very interesting.

“You’ll now be fined almost $5,000 if you try to illegally flee Melbourne for regional Victoria

The ring of steel around metropolitan Melbourne will be stepped up as restrictions ease in regional Victoria tonight, with a new offence coming into effect at midnight.

The new law means people who leave the city without a lawful reason will face a fine of almost five-thousand dollars.

Checkpoints were set up around Melbourne in July to stop people breaking COVID-19 restrictions and travelling to regional areas.

Deputy Commissioner Rick Nugent says existing checkpoints will be strengthened, while new “pop-up” checkpoints will also be set up on regional backroads.”

…………………………………………………………………………..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/coronavirus-australia-live-news-expert-predicts-more-deaths/12666794

> You’ll now be fined almost $5,000 if you try to illegally flee Melbourne for regional Victoria

Damnit. Can you find out where those checkpoints are so I can circle around them?

mollwollfumble said:

> You’ll now be fined almost $5,000 if you try to illegally flee Melbourne for regional Victoria

Damnit. Can you find out where those checkpoints are so I can circle around them?

Where were you planning to go?

mollwollfumble said:

> You’ll now be fined almost $5,000 if you try to illegally flee Melbourne for regional Victoria

Damnit. Can you find out where those checkpoints are so I can circle around them?

No.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/act-health-human-error-chef-missed-hotel-quarantine-record/12668664

It looks like human error isn’t considered an explanation in Victorian hotel quarantine but it is in the ACT. Does that make us Victorians superhuman?

;)

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

> You’ll now be fined almost $5,000 if you try to illegally flee Melbourne for regional Victoria

Damnit. Can you find out where those checkpoints are so I can circle around them?

Where were you planning to go?

And what’s your rego. And since you’re experiencing symptoms and are not allowed to go anywhere anyway what’s your home address so i can call the police on you.

US President Donald Trump has given a town hall in which he said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine.

This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.

Ian said:

US President Donald Trump has given a town hall in which he said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine.

This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.

SHEEPLE

Ian said:

US President Donald Trump has given a town hall in which he said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine.

This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.

You only have to believe hard enough that Covid will go away. If Covid doesn’t go away the fault lies with the ‘Merican people for not believing hard enough.

Divine Angel said:

Ian said:

US President Donald Trump has given a town hall in which he said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine.

This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.

SHEEPLE

If they were sheeple it would be flock mentality.

Ian said:

US President Donald Trump has given a town hall in which he said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine.

This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.

Never mind, he can still remember ‘Person, woman, man, camera, TV.’

Ian said:

US President Donald Trump has given a town hall in which he said that Covid-19 would go away without a vaccine.

This would happen because of “herd mentality,” he said. It is unclear whether he meant heard immunity, as he repeated the phrase several times.

I find it difficult to believe that ‘Scientific American’ is recommending that people vote against this man.

buffy said:

Oh my goodness…now we have MADE…mask acquired dry eye.

>>Face masks significantly reduce the spread of air outwards from the mouth and nose. However, exhaled air still needs to disperse; when a mask sits loosely against the face the likely route is upwards. This forces a stream of air over the surface of the eye, creating conditions that accelerate the evaporation of the tear film, like a steady breeze blowing over damp skin.

People who wear glasses are well aware of this, shown by the annoying lens fogging that often occurs when breathing under a mask.

When masks are worn for extended periods, this repeated evaporation may lead to dry spots on the ocular surface.

Similar effects have been reported with continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) masks that are used to treat sleep apnea. Eye dryness may also result when face masks are taped to seal the top edge, if that interferes with the eyelids’ natural movement, preventing full blinks. Incomplete blinking can cause the tear film to become less stable.<<

I think this is a false comparison. Exhaled air contains water. Oxygen from a bottle is dry. Messing with the position of the lower lid is a possibility, but not the saturation of the expired air.

Nice, masks cause so many problems, your glasses get wet but your eyes get dry, all the geniuses are so beautifully consistent. Remember how they would increase spread of disease, and now they increase the chance of flock immunity, it’s genius.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-16/india-coronavirus-case—pass-5-million/12670756

They have a phenomenal testing rate in India. I’m surprised they can do it.

I didn’t mention that USA have ticked over 200kilodeaths but I assume it’s been discussed.

dv said:

I didn’t mention that USA have ticked over 200kilodeaths but I assume it’s been discussed.

When does the next wave happen?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

It’s not just the howlers, such as the Doherty Institute mixing up total number of hospitalisations with intensive care unit admissions and thereby frightening the pants off governments.

It turns out the figure of 36,000 was not the number of ICU beds required — there were only 4000 ICU beds at the time — but the maximum possible number of people with the virus requiring hospital care at any time.

It also is not just the fact many epidemiologists and, for that matter, state chief health officers have zero clinical experience, including in infectious disease management. For many it’s simply a mathematical game and cranking the handle of their preferred models. But the public exposure, if not adulation, is a plus many have enjoyed.

The tragedy is that our political leaders, particularly at state level, have insufficient nous to see through what is served up by “experts” while meekly claiming the “science” has made them impose the unbearable draconian restrictions, particularly where restrictions can be marketed in ways that make them politically attractive as well. The process may be coming to an end in Victoria, but there is no doubt Daniel Andrews initially found no problem wrapping up frightening “expert” opinion with the image of a strong leader solely concerned about the welfare of his people.

When it comes to the epidemiologists, there clearly are large divisions among them, particularly in relation to the elimination-versus-suppression strategy, the appropriate modelling approach and the need to take into account the wider effects of any measures imposed, including on other health outcomes and the economy.

There’s the sky-is-about-to-fall gang and the more measured group. University of Melbourne professor Tony Blakely, commissioned by the Victorian government to undertake the latest modelling underpinning the highly contested future road map, is in the first group. Australian National University professor Peter Collignon is much more measured, seeing the bigger picture.

Then there is Stephen Duckett of the Grattan Institute, who calls himself a health economist — he is definitely not an epidemiologist — who has argued for zero COVID-19 cases irrespective of the economic consequences. This is notwithstanding other Grattan staff arguing for even more government spending to counter the negative economic consequences of the restrictions. Go figure.

A key problem with the modelling exercises undertaken to justify harsh actions by governments is that underlying assumptions are unclear. There also seems to have been little learning from the course of the disease. Initially, it was fair enough to paint the worst-case scenario in which our hospital system might be overwhelmed and act to increase our ICU capacity, purchase personal protective equipment and other items, and ensure adequate staff.

We have learned much since. The virus is highly infectious though not very lethal, but it remains a problem for older people and those with certain comorbidities. This points to targeted, more nuanced approaches than those undertaken by state governments.

The modelling underpinning the Victorian government’s latest policy proposals is based on a core assumption not supported by the facts. As University of Toronto professor Josh Gans notes, the model assumes that everyone, directly or indirectly, eventually runs into everyone else. If we look at the geographical incidence of the virus and known patterns of movement by Victorians, this is just wrong. The alternative susceptible, infected and recovered individuals modelling approach would yield different policy implications, including the need for local hotspot identification and graduated local responses.

Not that the tyranny of experts is confined to Victoria. In Queensland, justification for closed state borders becomes more ridiculous as the weeks pass. But the “intimidated but I won’t be intimidated” Premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, blames the Chief Health Officer. This person has no expertise in infectious diseases, almost no clinical experience and has been in the job almost two decades. Her capacity to justifiably demand state borders be closed to protect public safety must surely be open to question. And her excuse for allowing some into the state — AFL royalty, celebrities, the wealthy — is laughable. According to this faux economist: “We need every single dollar in our state.” The mind boggles — how many more dollars does she think have been forgone by the border closures?

What governments should have requested after the first phase of the pandemic, and when appropriate resources were in place, was analysis from epidemiologists and economists working together to manage the virus at the lowest cost. And note the economic damage wrought is already substantial, long-lasting and uneven in impact.

Instead of our governments managing the virus relatively well — with the exception of Victoria — at a high economic cost, there was an alternative of managing it at a much lower cost.

When a politician says experts are in charge or the “science” made them do it, be suspicious. These experts don’t speak with one voice and many are peddling values they hold dear; as true with COVID-19 as it is with climate change. Politicians are elected to govern us all; this requires judgment about the trade-offs that inevitably exist with all policy decisions. The tyranny of experts needs to resisted. They may have a role to play but not in an uncontested way. And when you hear the term “evidence-based policy”, bear in mind it’s generally policy-based evidence.

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

It’s not just the howlers, such as the Doherty Institute mixing up total number of hospitalisations with intensive care unit admissions and thereby frightening the pants off governments.

It turns out the figure of 36,000 was not the number of ICU beds required — there were only 4000 ICU beds at the time — but the maximum possible number of people with the virus requiring hospital care at any time.

It also is not just the fact many epidemiologists and, for that matter, state chief health officers have zero clinical experience, including in infectious disease management. For many it’s simply a mathematical game and cranking the handle of their preferred models. But the public exposure, if not adulation, is a plus many have enjoyed.

The tragedy is that our political leaders, particularly at state level, have insufficient nous to see through what is served up by “experts” while meekly claiming the “science” has made them impose the unbearable draconian restrictions, particularly where restrictions can be marketed in ways that make them politically attractive as well. The process may be coming to an end in Victoria, but there is no doubt Daniel Andrews initially found no problem wrapping up frightening “expert” opinion with the image of a strong leader solely concerned about the welfare of his people.

When it comes to the epidemiologists, there clearly are large divisions among them, particularly in relation to the elimination-versus-suppression strategy, the appropriate modelling approach and the need to take into account the wider effects of any measures imposed, including on other health outcomes and the economy.

There’s the sky-is-about-to-fall gang and the more measured group. University of Melbourne professor Tony Blakely, commissioned by the Victorian government to undertake the latest modelling underpinning the highly contested future road map, is in the first group. Australian National University professor Peter Collignon is much more measured, seeing the bigger picture.

Then there is Stephen Duckett of the Grattan Institute, who calls himself a health economist — he is definitely not an epidemiologist — who has argued for zero COVID-19 cases irrespective of the economic consequences. This is notwithstanding other Grattan staff arguing for even more government spending to counter the negative economic consequences of the restrictions. Go figure.

A key problem with the modelling exercises undertaken to justify harsh actions by governments is that underlying assumptions are unclear. There also seems to have been little learning from the course of the disease. Initially, it was fair enough to paint the worst-case scenario in which our hospital system might be overwhelmed and act to increase our ICU capacity, purchase personal protective equipment and other items, and ensure adequate staff.

We have learned much since. The virus is highly infectious though not very lethal, but it remains a problem for older people and those with certain comorbidities. This points to targeted, more nuanced approaches than those undertaken by state governments.

The modelling underpinning the Victorian government’s latest policy proposals is based on a core assumption not supported by the facts. As University of Toronto professor Josh Gans notes, the model assumes that everyone, directly or indirectly, eventually runs into everyone else. If we look at the geographical incidence of the virus and known patterns of movement by Victorians, this is just wrong. The alternative susceptible, infected and recovered individuals modelling approach would yield different policy implications, including the need for local hotspot identification and graduated local responses.

Not that the tyranny of experts is confined to Victoria. In Queensland, justification for closed state borders becomes more ridiculous as the weeks pass. But the “intimidated but I won’t be intimidated” Premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, blames the Chief Health Officer. This person has no expertise in infectious diseases, almost no clinical experience and has been in the job almost two decades. Her capacity to justifiably demand state borders be closed to protect public safety must surely be open to question. And her excuse for allowing some into the state — AFL royalty, celebrities, the wealthy — is laughable. According to this faux economist: “We need every single dollar in our state.” The mind boggles — how many more dollars does she think have been forgone by the border closures?

What governments should have requested after the first phase of the pandemic, and when appropriate resources were in place, was analysis from epidemiologists and economists working together to manage the virus at the lowest cost. And note the economic damage wrought is already substantial, long-lasting and uneven in impact.

Instead of our governments managing the virus relatively well — with the exception of Victoria — at a high economic cost, there was an alternative of managing it at a much lower cost.

When a politician says experts are in charge or the “science” made them do it, be suspicious. These experts don’t speak with one voice and many are peddling values they hold dear; as true with COVID-19 as it is with climate change. Politicians are elected to govern us all; this requires judgment about the trade-offs that inevitably exist with all policy decisions. The tyranny of experts needs to resisted. They may have a role to play but not in an uncontested way. And when you hear the term “evidence-based policy”, bear in mind it’s generally policy-based evidence.

OK Mr Murdoch.

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

It’s not just the howlers, such as the Doherty Institute mixing up total number of hospitalisations with intensive care unit admissions and thereby frightening the pants off governments.

It turns out the figure of 36,000 was not the number of ICU beds required — there were only 4000 ICU beds at the time — but the maximum possible number of people with the virus requiring hospital care at any time.

It also is not just the fact many epidemiologists and, for that matter, state chief health officers have zero clinical experience, including in infectious disease management. For many it’s simply a mathematical game and cranking the handle of their preferred models. But the public exposure, if not adulation, is a plus many have enjoyed.

The tragedy is that our political leaders, particularly at state level, have insufficient nous to see through what is served up by “experts” while meekly claiming the “science” has made them impose the unbearable draconian restrictions, particularly where restrictions can be marketed in ways that make them politically attractive as well. The process may be coming to an end in Victoria, but there is no doubt Daniel Andrews initially found no problem wrapping up frightening “expert” opinion with the image of a strong leader solely concerned about the welfare of his people.

When it comes to the epidemiologists, there clearly are large divisions among them, particularly in relation to the elimination-versus-suppression strategy, the appropriate modelling approach and the need to take into account the wider effects of any measures imposed, including on other health outcomes and the economy.

There’s the sky-is-about-to-fall gang and the more measured group. University of Melbourne professor Tony Blakely, commissioned by the Victorian government to undertake the latest modelling underpinning the highly contested future road map, is in the first group. Australian National University professor Peter Collignon is much more measured, seeing the bigger picture.

Then there is Stephen Duckett of the Grattan Institute, who calls himself a health economist — he is definitely not an epidemiologist — who has argued for zero COVID-19 cases irrespective of the economic consequences. This is notwithstanding other Grattan staff arguing for even more government spending to counter the negative economic consequences of the restrictions. Go figure.

A key problem with the modelling exercises undertaken to justify harsh actions by governments is that underlying assumptions are unclear. There also seems to have been little learning from the course of the disease. Initially, it was fair enough to paint the worst-case scenario in which our hospital system might be overwhelmed and act to increase our ICU capacity, purchase personal protective equipment and other items, and ensure adequate staff.

We have learned much since. The virus is highly infectious though not very lethal, but it remains a problem for older people and those with certain comorbidities. This points to targeted, more nuanced approaches than those undertaken by state governments.

The modelling underpinning the Victorian government’s latest policy proposals is based on a core assumption not supported by the facts. As University of Toronto professor Josh Gans notes, the model assumes that everyone, directly or indirectly, eventually runs into everyone else. If we look at the geographical incidence of the virus and known patterns of movement by Victorians, this is just wrong. The alternative susceptible, infected and recovered individuals modelling approach would yield different policy implications, including the need for local hotspot identification and graduated local responses.

Not that the tyranny of experts is confined to Victoria. In Queensland, justification for closed state borders becomes more ridiculous as the weeks pass. But the “intimidated but I won’t be intimidated” Premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, blames the Chief Health Officer. This person has no expertise in infectious diseases, almost no clinical experience and has been in the job almost two decades. Her capacity to justifiably demand state borders be closed to protect public safety must surely be open to question. And her excuse for allowing some into the state — AFL royalty, celebrities, the wealthy — is laughable. According to this faux economist: “We need every single dollar in our state.” The mind boggles — how many more dollars does she think have been forgone by the border closures?

What governments should have requested after the first phase of the pandemic, and when appropriate resources were in place, was analysis from epidemiologists and economists working together to manage the virus at the lowest cost. And note the economic damage wrought is already substantial, long-lasting and uneven in impact.

Instead of our governments managing the virus relatively well — with the exception of Victoria — at a high economic cost, there was an alternative of managing it at a much lower cost.

When a politician says experts are in charge or the “science” made them do it, be suspicious. These experts don’t speak with one voice and many are peddling values they hold dear; as true with COVID-19 as it is with climate change. Politicians are elected to govern us all; this requires judgment about the trade-offs that inevitably exist with all policy decisions. The tyranny of experts needs to resisted. They may have a role to play but not in an uncontested way. And when you hear the term “evidence-based policy”, bear in mind it’s generally policy-based evidence.

I’m not sure I trust journalists more than scientists, or even economists or politicians for that matter.

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m not sure I trust journalists more than scientists, or even economists or politicians for that matter.

but who needs real experts when it’s news media we should be getting all our information from

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

“Judith Sloan is an economist and company director. “

dv said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

“Judith Sloan is an economist and company director. “

yep, an economic expert if you like.

:-)

dv said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

“Judith Sloan is an economist and company director. “

but does ‘e look good

dv said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

“Judith Sloan is an economist and company director. “

OK then:

I’m not sure I trust economists who are company directors more than scientists, or even journalists or politicians for that matter.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

“Judith Sloan is an economist and company director. “

OK then:

I’m not sure I trust economists who are company directors more than scientists, or even journalists or politicians for that matter.

The entire piece is dangerous nonsense from start to finish and I wonder how these people can sleep at night.

dv said:

The entire piece is dangerous nonsense from start to finish and I wonder how these people can sleep at night.

The Economy Must Grow

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

“Judith Sloan is an economist and company director. “

OK then:

I’m not sure I trust economists who are company directors more than scientists, or even journalists or politicians for that matter.

The entire piece is dangerous nonsense from start to finish and I wonder how these people can sleep at night.

You really can’t stop with the Lennon quotes.

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/once-it-was-distance-but-a-new-tyranny-has-emerged-in-coronavirus-era/news-story/173654a1dfd96ea36e280d0f34b2b4a2

Judith Sloan.

Just as we were getting over the tyranny of distance, another has emerged to make life incredibly difficult for ordinary folk: the tyranny of experts.

When the pandemic first emerged, some high-profile journalists rejoiced that so-called experts were now in charge. At last, experts were dictating policy and this principle must be extended to climate change policy — we listened to the experts on coronavirus, it’s time we heard them on climate change.

But the so-called expert opinion when it comes to COVID-19 is just a motley mess of differing views often using inappropriate modelling and silly assumptions. The carry-on by local epidemiologists has made economists look good. And don’t forget that you can lay all the economists in the world head to toe and they still won’t reach a conclusion.

It’s not just the howlers, such as the Doherty Institute mixing up total number of hospitalisations with intensive care unit admissions and thereby frightening the pants off governments.

It turns out the figure of 36,000 was not the number of ICU beds required — there were only 4000 ICU beds at the time — but the maximum possible number of people with the virus requiring hospital care at any time.

It also is not just the fact many epidemiologists and, for that matter, state chief health officers have zero clinical experience, including in infectious disease management. For many it’s simply a mathematical game and cranking the handle of their preferred models. But the public exposure, if not adulation, is a plus many have enjoyed.

The tragedy is that our political leaders, particularly at state level, have insufficient nous to see through what is served up by “experts” while meekly claiming the “science” has made them impose the unbearable draconian restrictions, particularly where restrictions can be marketed in ways that make them politically attractive as well. The process may be coming to an end in Victoria, but there is no doubt Daniel Andrews initially found no problem wrapping up frightening “expert” opinion with the image of a strong leader solely concerned about the welfare of his people.

When it comes to the epidemiologists, there clearly are large divisions among them, particularly in relation to the elimination-versus-suppression strategy, the appropriate modelling approach and the need to take into account the wider effects of any measures imposed, including on other health outcomes and the economy.

There’s the sky-is-about-to-fall gang and the more measured group. University of Melbourne professor Tony Blakely, commissioned by the Victorian government to undertake the latest modelling underpinning the highly contested future road map, is in the first group. Australian National University professor Peter Collignon is much more measured, seeing the bigger picture.

Then there is Stephen Duckett of the Grattan Institute, who calls himself a health economist — he is definitely not an epidemiologist — who has argued for zero COVID-19 cases irrespective of the economic consequences. This is notwithstanding other Grattan staff arguing for even more government spending to counter the negative economic consequences of the restrictions. Go figure.

A key problem with the modelling exercises undertaken to justify harsh actions by governments is that underlying assumptions are unclear. There also seems to have been little learning from the course of the disease. Initially, it was fair enough to paint the worst-case scenario in which our hospital system might be overwhelmed and act to increase our ICU capacity, purchase personal protective equipment and other items, and ensure adequate staff.

We have learned much since. The virus is highly infectious though not very lethal, but it remains a problem for older people and those with certain comorbidities. This points to targeted, more nuanced approaches than those undertaken by state governments.

The modelling underpinning the Victorian government’s latest policy proposals is based on a core assumption not supported by the facts. As University of Toronto professor Josh Gans notes, the model assumes that everyone, directly or indirectly, eventually runs into everyone else. If we look at the geographical incidence of the virus and known patterns of movement by Victorians, this is just wrong. The alternative susceptible, infected and recovered individuals modelling approach would yield different policy implications, including the need for local hotspot identification and graduated local responses.

Not that the tyranny of experts is confined to Victoria. In Queensland, justification for closed state borders becomes more ridiculous as the weeks pass. But the “intimidated but I won’t be intimidated” Premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, blames the Chief Health Officer. This person has no expertise in infectious diseases, almost no clinical experience and has been in the job almost two decades. Her capacity to justifiably demand state borders be closed to protect public safety must surely be open to question. And her excuse for allowing some into the state — AFL royalty, celebrities, the wealthy — is laughable. According to this faux economist: “We need every single dollar in our state.” The mind boggles — how many more dollars does she think have been forgone by the border closures?

What governments should have requested after the first phase of the pandemic, and when appropriate resources were in place, was analysis from epidemiologists and economists working together to manage the virus at the lowest cost. And note the economic damage wrought is already substantial, long-lasting and uneven in impact.

Instead of our governments managing the virus relatively well — with the exception of Victoria — at a high economic cost, there was an alternative of managing it at a much lower cost.

When a politician says experts are in charge or the “science” made them do it, be suspicious. These experts don’t speak with one voice and many are peddling values they hold dear; as true with COVID-19 as it is with climate change. Politicians are elected to govern us all; this requires judgment about the trade-offs that inevitably exist with all policy decisions. The tyranny of experts needs to resisted. They may have a role to play but not in an uncontested way. And when you hear the term “evidence-based policy”, bear in mind it’s generally policy-based evidence.

About the author:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/Judith%20Sloan

¡ in this article, “scientists” also known as “experts” make the outlandish claim that virus could survive refrigerated on biological (cellular / nutrient) substrate for days !

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.06.284695v1.full.pdf

SCIENCE said:

¡ in this article, “scientists” also known as “experts” make the outlandish claim that virus could survive refrigerated on biological (cellular / nutrient) substrate for days !

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.06.284695v1.full.pdf

What do the economists say?

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

¡ in this article, “scientists” also known as “experts” make the outlandish claim that virus could survive refrigerated on biological (cellular / nutrient) substrate for days !

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.06.284695v1.full.pdf

What do the economists say?

cut the highest tax rates?

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

¡ in this article, “scientists” also known as “experts” make the outlandish claim that virus could survive refrigerated on biological (cellular / nutrient) substrate for days !

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.06.284695v1.full.pdf

What do the economists say?

I think we’ve moved on. ‘What does a journalist state’ is the new meme.

SCIENCE said:

¡ in this article, “scientists” also known as “experts” make the outlandish claim that virus could survive refrigerated on biological (cellular / nutrient) substrate for days !

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.06.284695v1.full.pdf

Thanks for that. Maybe that’s how NZ got the virus again. Meat-packing vector.

Buggrit…

sibeen said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

¡ in this article, “scientists” also known as “experts” make the outlandish claim that virus could survive refrigerated on biological (cellular / nutrient) substrate for days !

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.06.284695v1.full.pdf

What do the economists say?

I think we’ve moved on. ‘What does a journalist state’ is the new meme.

Ha – more: “What do the generic Shazzas and Coreys on Facebook have to say?”.

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

What do the economists say?

I think we’ve moved on. ‘What does a journalist state’ is the new meme.

Ha – more: “What do the generic Shazzas and Coreys on Facebook have to say?”.

Shazza absolutely hates Corey and she does it on Facebook.
.

!!

captain_spalding said:

!!

:)

Appearing at a town hall-style event in Philadelphia, Trump presented a view of the pandemic radically at odds with the view of public health officials, insisting again that the virus would disappear on its own and contending that “we’re rounding the corner” of the crisis. He cast doubt on the value of wearing masks, citing the wisdom of restaurant waiters over the counsel of his own medical advisers.

“I feel that we’ve done a tremendous job, actually,” Trump said, defending his handling of the pandemic during the event broadcast on ABC News. “It’s something that I don’t think has been recognised like it should.”

But the president disputed himself by claiming that he did not publicly diminish the severity of the virus. “I didn’t downplay it,” he told the host, George Stephanopoulos. “I actually in many ways up-played it in action.”

https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politics/after-admitting-to-it-donald-trump-denies-downplaying-covid-19-888295.html

Dude… you’re on tape.

Does he understand how sound recording works?

dv said:

 
Appearing at a town hall-style event in Philadelphia, Trump presented a view of the pandemic radically at odds with the view of public health officials, insisting again that the virus would disappear on its own and contending that “we’re rounding the corner” of the crisis. He cast doubt on the value of wearing masks, citing the wisdom of restaurant waiters over the counsel of his own medical advisers.

“I feel that we’ve done a tremendous job, actually,” Trump said, defending his handling of the pandemic during the event broadcast on ABC News. “It’s something that I don’t think has been recognised like it should.”

But the president disputed himself by claiming that he did not publicly diminish the severity of the virus. “I didn’t downplay it,” he told the host, George Stephanopoulos. “I actually in many ways up-played it in action.”

https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politics/after-admitting-to-it-donald-trump-denies-downplaying-covid-19-888295.html

Dude… you’re on tape.

Does he understand how sound recording works?

Sure. Keep repeating the same trite nonsense, and his supporters will believe him.

LOL good luck convincing them denialists.

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/ambitious-mass-testing-plan-that-might-be-as-good-as-a-vaccine/12671156

The longer this pandemic drags on, the more likely it is that people will get fed up with taking themselves off for a coronavirus test every time they get sick.

It might sound counterintuitive, but the solution might be to test everyone more.

Next you’ll hear the non expert economists calling for more lockdowns and border closures, since apparently it’s all good for employment.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-17/jobs-employment-data-abs-august-2020/12668374

Australia’s unemployment rate has posted a surprise fall as 111,000 jobs were created last month, despite a lockdown in the nation’s second most populous state.

Unemployment hit 7.5 per cent in July, but has since fallen to 6.8 per cent in August.

The Bureau of Statistics figures appear to show the bounce-back in jobs is real, rather than a statistical illusion, with internationally comparable measures also showing a big drop in unemployment.

SCIENCE said:

Next you’ll hear the non expert economists calling for more lockdowns and border closures, since apparently it’s all good for employment.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-17/jobs-employment-data-abs-august-2020/12668374

Australia’s unemployment rate has posted a surprise fall as 111,000 jobs were created last month, despite a lockdown in the nation’s second most populous state.

Unemployment hit 7.5 per cent in July, but has since fallen to 6.8 per cent in August.

The Bureau of Statistics figures appear to show the bounce-back in jobs is real, rather than a statistical illusion, with internationally comparable measures also showing a big drop in unemployment.

It’s been very busy here with holidayers. Many more than we normally see.

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

Next you’ll hear the non expert economists calling for more lockdowns and border closures, since apparently it’s all good for employment.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-17/jobs-employment-data-abs-august-2020/12668374

Australia’s unemployment rate has posted a surprise fall as 111,000 jobs were created last month, despite a lockdown in the nation’s second most populous state.

Unemployment hit 7.5 per cent in July, but has since fallen to 6.8 per cent in August.

The Bureau of Statistics figures appear to show the bounce-back in jobs is real, rather than a statistical illusion, with internationally comparable measures also showing a big drop in unemployment.

It’s been very busy here with holidayers. Many more than we normally see.

They can’t fuck off to Bali.

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

Next you’ll hear the non expert economists calling for more lockdowns and border closures, since apparently it’s all good for employment.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-17/jobs-employment-data-abs-august-2020/12668374

Australia’s unemployment rate has posted a surprise fall as 111,000 jobs were created last month, despite a lockdown in the nation’s second most populous state.

Unemployment hit 7.5 per cent in July, but has since fallen to 6.8 per cent in August.

The Bureau of Statistics figures appear to show the bounce-back in jobs is real, rather than a statistical illusion, with internationally comparable measures also showing a big drop in unemployment.

It’s been very busy here with holidayers. Many more than we normally see.

They can’t fuck off to Bali.

I think that just about sums it up.

Big spike in Arkansas yesterday but I can only assume that it is due to some administrative issue

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

It’s been very busy here with holidayers. Many more than we normally see.

They can’t fuck off to Bali.

I think that just about sums it up.

In all it is good for the Australian tourism industry if they have a staycation.

Washington (CNN)Democratic South Carolina Rep. Jim Clyburn got right to the point when asked about Attorney General William Barr’s comment on Wednesday that calls for a nationwide lockdown to stem the spread of the novel coronavirus were the “greatest intrusion on civil liberties” in US history “other than slavery.”

Speaking with CNN’s John Berman on “New Day,” the House majority whip distilled the absurdity at the heart of Barr’s words.

“I think that that statement by Mr. Barr was the most ridiculous, tone-deaf, God-awful thing I’ve ever heard,” Clyburn, longtime Black leader from South Carolina, said on Thursday. “It is incredible, as chief law enforcement officer in this country, to equate human bondage to expert advice to save lives. Slavery was not about saving lives. It was about devaluing lives.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/17/politics/william-barr-slavery-jim-clyburn/index.html

Hey, we hadn’t thought of that:

!!

How far up into space can we travel ?

Tau.Neutrino said:

How far up into space can we travel ?

you passing the bong around, neutrino, is that what you mean

Tau.Neutrino said:

How far up into space can we travel ?

Quite a long way.

or

Not very far at all

Depending on how you look at it.

And what you mean by “we”

I mean I doubt if I could manage more than about 3 feet these days.

captain_spalding said:

Hey, we hadn’t thought of that:

!!

LOLz

Tau.Neutrino said:

How far up into space can we travel ?

I’ll check.

It appears that the answer is, if i give it my best effort, about 75cm.

I’m not as young as i was, and the landing is hard on my knees.

Dr Evil “Time to roll out Ebola Plus”

Frau Farbissina.“ROLL OUT EBOLA PLUS”

Actually, a bit less than 75cm.

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

How far up into space can we travel ?

I’ll check.

It appears that the answer is, if i give it my best effort, about 75cm.

I’m not as young as i was, and the landing is hard on my knees.

I was hoping for more than 1.5 Meters

Tau.Neutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

How far up into space can we travel ?

I’ll check.

It appears that the answer is, if i give it my best effort, about 75cm.

I’m not as young as i was, and the landing is hard on my knees.

I was hoping for more than 1.5 Meters

What’s this got to do with the Coronavirus?

Michael V said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

I’ll check.

It appears that the answer is, if i give it my best effort, about 75cm.

I’m not as young as i was, and the landing is hard on my knees.

I was hoping for more than 1.5 Meters

What’s this got to do with the Coronavirus?

I was just prodding it, see where it goes.

Michael V said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

I’ll check.

It appears that the answer is, if i give it my best effort, about 75cm.

I’m not as young as i was, and the landing is hard on my knees.

I was hoping for more than 1.5 Meters

What’s this got to do with the Coronavirus?

Travel restrictions have been eased.

ABC News 27 min ago:

‘If it’s safe it should be open’: Joyce calls for state border closures to end

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce, tourism and business groups express their growing frustration over blanket state border closures ‘

ABC News 5 min ago:

‘Victoria records 45 new coronavirus cases and five deaths
Victoria records 45 new cases of COVID-19, an increase on yesterday’s tally of 28.’

It isn’t safe, Alan.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Michael V said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I was hoping for more than 1.5 Meters

What’s this got to do with the Coronavirus?

Travel restrictions have been eased.

When did vertical travel restrictions become a thing?

Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Michael V said:

What’s this got to do with the Coronavirus?

Travel restrictions have been eased.

When did vertical travel restrictions become a thing?

Maybe Tau is planning to leap over the state border at sufficient height so he won’t be breaking any restrictions.

Austerity made UK better prepared to tackle Covid-19, David Cameron claims

Experts have previously warned that a decade of swingeing cuts to government budgets left the NHS on its knees as the pandemic hit British shores in March

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/austerity-made-uk-better-prepared-22695272.amp?fbclid=IwAR2U6yE8cDEJj1cGBLoChU3CW4CtWBXNTzL20rpx4aSHpN8mO8hhQTkmszk

Lol

dv said:

Austerity made UK better prepared to tackle Covid-19, David Cameron claims

Experts have previously warned that a decade of swingeing cuts to government budgets left the NHS on its knees as the pandemic hit British shores in March

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/austerity-made-uk-better-prepared-22695272.amp?fbclid=IwAR2U6yE8cDEJj1cGBLoChU3CW4CtWBXNTzL20rpx4aSHpN8mO8hhQTkmszk

Lol

He’s not very bright.

captain_spalding said:

Seems fair.

Flock Immunity Starting To Happen Among Businesses

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-18/qantas-flight-to-nowhere-sells-out-in-10-minutes/12676570

SCIENCE said:

Flock Immunity Starting To Happen Among Businesses

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-18/qantas-flight-to-nowhere-sells-out-in-10-minutes/12676570

A planeload of people who (a) have nothing better to do than (b) spend $800 to sit in a seat that © returns them to exactly where they started after (d) burning a lot of fossils fuels for the non-purpose.

Oh, BUK 9M38 missiles, where are you when we need you?

SCIENCE said:

Flock Immunity Starting To Happen Among Businesses

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-18/qantas-flight-to-nowhere-sells-out-in-10-minutes/12676570

“mentality”

The White House scuttled a plan to partner with the US Postal Service to send every American a face mask, The Washington Post reported on Thursday.

A draft press release obtained by The Post showed that the Postal Service was preparing to send out 650 million face masks in April to supply every household with them.

However, a senior administration official told The Post that the White House nixed the plan because officials thought “receiving masks might create concern or panic”.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/white-house-blocked-usps-from-sending-face-masks-to-all-households-2020-9?fbclid=IwAR3mt5tJct-XQA4JEEX9to2aLiXCK-KfbufkvdYfYaAumf5NH04rlShs2RQ&r=US&IR=T

dv said:

The White House scuttled a plan to partner with the US Postal Service to send every American a face mask, The Washington Post reported on Thursday.

A draft press release obtained by The Post showed that the Postal Service was preparing to send out 650 million face masks in April to supply every household with them.

However, a senior administration official told The Post that the White House nixed the plan because officials thought “receiving masks might create concern or panic”.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/white-house-blocked-usps-from-sending-face-masks-to-all-households-2020-9?fbclid=IwAR3mt5tJct-XQA4JEEX9to2aLiXCK-KfbufkvdYfYaAumf5NH04rlShs2RQ&r=US&IR=T

so it wasn’t because there was a shortage and healthcare workers wouldn’t have enough

dv said:

nods

Over Half of COVID-19 Patients in a New Study Are Suffering Long-Term Fatigue

More than half of patients and staff with COVID-19 monitored by an Irish hospital suffered persistent fatigue in the aftermath of the initial disease, according to a new study Friday highlighting the “significant burden” of lingering symptoms.

More…

Tau.Neutrino said:

Over Half of COVID-19 Patients in a New Study Are Suffering Long-Term Fatigue

More than half of patients and staff with COVID-19 monitored by an Irish hospital suffered persistent fatigue in the aftermath of the initial disease, according to a new study Friday highlighting the “significant burden” of lingering symptoms.

More…

2021 looks like it will be quite a year too. Who knows where it might end.

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Over Half of COVID-19 Patients in a New Study Are Suffering Long-Term Fatigue

More than half of patients and staff with COVID-19 monitored by an Irish hospital suffered persistent fatigue in the aftermath of the initial disease, according to a new study Friday highlighting the “significant burden” of lingering symptoms.

More…

2021 looks like it will be quite a year too. Who knows where it might end.

31st December would be my guess.

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests

Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3102158/coronavirus-constantly-surprising-virus-found-be-heat-tolerant
—-

sarahs mum said:

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3102158/coronavirus-constantly-surprising-virus-found-be-heat-tolerant
—-

They poked the spike proteins with the needle and found they were swinging rapidly at high frequency. The atomic camera could take more than 300 shots in a second but still only got a motion-blurred image of the spikes.

Such high speed movements could help the virus more easily find and hook onto a host cell, according to the researchers.

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3102158/coronavirus-constantly-surprising-virus-found-be-heat-tolerant
—-

They poked the spike proteins with the needle and found they were swinging rapidly at high frequency. The atomic camera could take more than 300 shots in a second but still only got a motion-blurred image of the spikes.

Such high speed movements could help the virus more easily find and hook onto a host cell, according to the researchers.

Just keeps on giving.

PermeateFree said:

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3102158/coronavirus-constantly-surprising-virus-found-be-heat-tolerant
—-

They poked the spike proteins with the needle and found they were swinging rapidly at high frequency. The atomic camera could take more than 300 shots in a second but still only got a motion-blurred image of the spikes.

Such high speed movements could help the virus more easily find and hook onto a host cell, according to the researchers.

Just keeps on giving.

fk those CHINESE bioweapon inventors are good

SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

sarahs mum said:

They poked the spike proteins with the needle and found they were swinging rapidly at high frequency. The atomic camera could take more than 300 shots in a second but still only got a motion-blurred image of the spikes.

Such high speed movements could help the virus more easily find and hook onto a host cell, according to the researchers.

Just keeps on giving.

fk those CHINESE bioweapon inventors are good

Better than the rest.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Over Half of COVID-19 Patients in a New Study Are Suffering Long-Term Fatigue

More than half of patients and staff with COVID-19 monitored by an Irish hospital suffered persistent fatigue in the aftermath of the initial disease, according to a new study Friday highlighting the “significant burden” of lingering symptoms.

More…

2021 looks like it will be quite a year too. Who knows where it might end.

31st December would be my guess.

IDLW

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3102158/coronavirus-constantly-surprising-virus-found-be-heat-tolerant
—-

They poked the spike proteins with the needle and found they were swinging rapidly at high frequency. The atomic camera could take more than 300 shots in a second but still only got a motion-blurred image of the spikes.

Such high speed movements could help the virus more easily find and hook onto a host cell, according to the researchers.

So what we now need to know is…do the other “normal” coronaviruses that cause colds do the same things? This might just be how coronaviruses are. Survival on hard surfaces for quite some time is a feature of cold viruses which has been known for quite a long time.

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Coronavirus: constantly surprising virus found to be heat tolerant, self-healing and very resilient in lab tests Hungarian team finds virus particle withstands being probed by a nano needle 100 times, possibly making it the most physically elastic virus known French scientists find it can replicate in animal cells after being exposed to temperatures of 60 degrees Celsius for an hour

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3102158/coronavirus-constantly-surprising-virus-found-be-heat-tolerant
—-

They poked the spike proteins with the needle and found they were swinging rapidly at high frequency. The atomic camera could take more than 300 shots in a second but still only got a motion-blurred image of the spikes.

Such high speed movements could help the virus more easily find and hook onto a host cell, according to the researchers.

So what we now need to know is…do the other “normal” coronaviruses that cause colds do the same things? This might just be how coronaviruses are. Survival on hard surfaces for quite some time is a feature of cold viruses which has been known for quite a long time.

I found this strange. Because when I asked my son about the rumours going around that the virus didn’t like hot gry climates, his reply was. “Dad don’t believe that. The virus can survive up to 70˚C”. That was back in the start of the year. So it can’t really be a new finding.

Alright, not coronavirus (it doesn’t look like anyone has taken a lot of notice of coronavirus before really, so we don’t know much about the ones that cause colds), but this is a very good description of the state of things.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-long-do-cold-and-flu-viruses-stay-contagious-on-public-surfaces

With links to the research included in the article.

buffy said:

Alright, not coronavirus (it doesn’t look like anyone has taken a lot of notice of coronavirus before really, so we don’t know much about the ones that cause colds), but this is a very good description of the state of things.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-long-do-cold-and-flu-viruses-stay-contagious-on-public-surfaces

With links to the research included in the article.

That was a good read.

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

The Brits did a lot of research on colds years ago. If I recall there was a Cold Research Institute or a name like that.

Tamb said:

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

The Brits did a lot of research on colds years ago. If I recall there was a Cold Research Institute or a name like that.

Yes, I recall that. Here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Cold_Unit

buffy said:

Tamb said:

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

The Brits did a lot of research on colds years ago. If I recall there was a Cold Research Institute or a name like that.

Yes, I recall that. Here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Cold_Unit

Thanks. The Porton Down link is something the conspiracy nuts would relish.

Tamb said:

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

The Brits did a lot of research on colds years ago. If I recall there was a Cold Research Institute or a name like that.

Didn’t they also do a lot of research into small bodies of water? At the Ponds Institute?

captain_spalding said:

Tamb said:

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

The Brits did a lot of research on colds years ago. If I recall there was a Cold Research Institute or a name like that.

Didn’t they also do a lot of research into small bodies of water? At the Ponds Institute?

Very funny.

captain_spalding said:

Tamb said:

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

The Brits did a lot of research on colds years ago. If I recall there was a Cold Research Institute or a name like that.

Didn’t they also do a lot of research into small bodies of water? At the Ponds Institute?

With Hyaluronic Acid :)

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

There’s nothing sexy about having a cold. Entirely way too much snot.

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

There’s nothing sexy about having a cold. Entirely way too much snot.

Such a delightful word is snot.

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

Made me go looking for research on what was known. This paper pulls together information on corona viruses persistence on surfaces. It was done at the beginning of the outbreak, presumably as a means of having a starting point. It seems there wasn’t a lot of information. Probably colds are not a very sexy research topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

There’s nothing sexy about having a cold. Entirely way too much snot.

Such a delightful word is snot.

Is it not odd that pretty much every word starting with sn- denotes something unpleasant

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

There’s nothing sexy about having a cold. Entirely way too much snot.

Such a delightful word is snot.

Is it not odd that pretty much every word starting with sn- denotes something unpleasant

Probably goes back even further than Eve and the Snake.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

There’s nothing sexy about having a cold. Entirely way too much snot.

Such a delightful word is snot.

Is it not odd that pretty much every word starting with sn- denotes something unpleasant

*snort *

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

There’s nothing sexy about having a cold. Entirely way too much snot.

Such a delightful word is snot.

Is it not odd that pretty much every word starting with sn- denotes something unpleasant

snigger

Michael V said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Such a delightful word is snot.

Is it not odd that pretty much every word starting with sn- denotes something unpleasant

snigger

snivelling sneaky snuffler.

Michael V said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Such a delightful word is snot.

Is it not odd that pretty much every word starting with sn- denotes something unpleasant

snigger

The Snotgurgle is a good example

a snorkelling snotgurgler?

For Tamb, and anyone else interested. It’s a dense read.

Mini-Review A view from the Common Cold Unit. D.A.J. Tyrrell

It’s by the bloke who ran the unit. It was published in 1992. It’s interesting to read just what they did find out.

https://sci-hub.tw/https://dx.doi.org/10.1016%2F0166-3542(92)90032-Z

buffy said:

For Tamb, and anyone else interested. It’s a dense read.

Mini-Review A view from the Common Cold Unit. D.A.J. Tyrrell

It’s by the bloke who ran the unit. It was published in 1992. It’s interesting to read just what they did find out.

https://sci-hub.tw/https://dx.doi.org/10.1016%2F0166-3542(92)90032-Z

Thanks. I’ve bookmarked the page for later digestion.

NSW reported two new cases of COVID-19 on Sunday, one a returned traveller in hotel quarantine, the other a taxi driver who worked for 10 days while potentially infectious.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/nsw-records-its-first-coronavirus-death-in-weeks-as-health-warnings-are-issued-after-a-taxi-driver-tested-positive

14 cases in Victoria

Coronavirus Australia live news: Victoria records 14 new COVID cases, Daniel Andrews says numbers are positive but no time to be complacent
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-20/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid-19-latest-vaccine-funding/12681904

You asked us 100,000 coronavirus questions. We read them all and they helped shape the ABC News coverage of COVID-19

I mentioned this a few weeks ago.
The covid apps around the world have been disappointing so Singapore has developed an electronic token that they are giving out for free.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-54206824

Peak Warming Man said:

I mentioned this a few weeks ago.
The covid apps around the world have been disappointing so Singapore has developed an electronic token that they are giving out for free.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-54206824

I developed a Covid app

You press the screen and it says Covid 19.

That’s all it does.

I’m very a happy with it.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I mentioned this a few weeks ago.
The covid apps around the world have been disappointing so Singapore has developed an electronic token that they are giving out for free.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-54206824

I developed a Covid app

You press the screen and it says Covid 19.

That’s all it does.

I’m very a happy with it.

LOL

Tau.Neutrino said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I mentioned this a few weeks ago.
The covid apps around the world have been disappointing so Singapore has developed an electronic token that they are giving out for free.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-54206824

I developed a Covid app

You press the screen and it says Covid 19.

That’s all it does.

I’m very a happy with it.

It’s not just a Covid App – It’s a Covid indicator App.

:-)

The release dates for the third dataset from the Gaia satellite have been delayed because of Covid-19.

The three year data (EDR3), originally scheduled for release in the third quarter of 2020 has been delayed to 3 December 2020. This will have updated measurements for more than 1.3 billion stars.

Gaia actually finished its 5 year mission last year and is looking for a two year extension. Data processing for final release will take time.