https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-20/how-turtles-can-help-murray-darling-river-carp-problem/12678820

roughbarked said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-20/how-turtles-can-help-murray-darling-river-carp-problem/12678820

> turtle scavenging can remove fish carcasses from the water five times faster than natural decomposition.

OK

> It also has found that if turtles are reintroduced, they will dramatically improve the river’s water quality by eating the fish carcasses before they begin to rot.

Aren’t the turtles already there?

> replenishing the number of turtles. In the Murray-Darling Basin there are three species of freshwater turtles — the long-neck turtle, the broadshell turtle and the short-neck turtle — and all of them eat carrion or dead animals to an extent. Turtle populations in the basin have been declining because of predators such as foxes, cats and goannas preying on nests, and because of road kill, marine disease and poor water quality due to water connectivity issues.

Oh, I see, increasing the numbers. That’s a worthwhile project in itself, whether or not it has much of a secondary effect.

mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-20/how-turtles-can-help-murray-darling-river-carp-problem/12678820

> turtle scavenging can remove fish carcasses from the water five times faster than natural decomposition.

OK

> It also has found that if turtles are reintroduced, they will dramatically improve the river’s water quality by eating the fish carcasses before they begin to rot.

Aren’t the turtles already there?

> replenishing the number of turtles. In the Murray-Darling Basin there are three species of freshwater turtles — the long-neck turtle, the broadshell turtle and the short-neck turtle — and all of them eat carrion or dead animals to an extent. Turtle populations in the basin have been declining because of predators such as foxes, cats and goannas preying on nests, and because of road kill, marine disease and poor water quality due to water connectivity issues.

Oh, I see, increasing the numbers. That’s a worthwhile project in itself, whether or not it has much of a secondary effect.

Basically it is only a part of repairing the river system.

The teenage mutant ninja turtles?

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray-Darling.

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray, Darling.

Climate change could. According to met bureau predictions, the headwaters of the Murray and Darling are predicted to get more rainfall over the next 80 years.

As opposed to Perth, which is in deep do do.

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray-Darling.

The Government should get people to move away from the area then it can be returned to nature.

Just a thought

Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray-Darling.

The Government should get people to move away from the area then it can be returned to nature.

Just a thought

yeah, but what are the rest of us in the big cities going to eat?

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray-Darling.

The Government should get people to move away from the area then it can be returned to nature.

Just a thought

yeah, but what are the rest of us in the big cities going to eat?

I know nothing simple will fix it.

One start would be installing water harvesting machines from air.

Subsidized from the government like solar roof panels.

Phase them in over time so that all producers have some involvement in it.

Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Government should get people to move away from the area then it can be returned to nature.

Just a thought

yeah, but what are the rest of us in the big cities going to eat?

I know nothing simple will fix it.

One start would be installing water harvesting machines from air.

Subsidized from the government like solar roof panels.

Phase them in over time so that all producers have some involvement in it.

Water harvesting machines are around in various forms, if tens of thousands of them are installed on farms and heavily subsidized then this would help.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-06-09/water-harvesting-from-desert-air/9836908

https://rainmakerww.com/technology-air-to-water/

https://academic.oup.com/ijlct/article/15/2/253/5718410

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6T3ICXWqjc

Water desalinity plants could divert water to farming when not used by cities for drinking.

Costs spread out accordingly.

Start up companies for creating water extraction equipment could be created by the Government then privatized.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

yeah, but what are the rest of us in the big cities going to eat?

I know nothing simple will fix it.

One start would be installing water harvesting machines from air.

Subsidized from the government like solar roof panels.

Phase them in over time so that all producers have some involvement in it.

Water harvesting machines are around in various forms, if tens of thousands of them are installed on farms and heavily subsidized then this would help.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-06-09/water-harvesting-from-desert-air/9836908

https://rainmakerww.com/technology-air-to-water/

https://academic.oup.com/ijlct/article/15/2/253/5718410

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6T3ICXWqjc

The amount of water available needs to be modeled more accurately. The allocations to irrigators calculated accordingly. If they can’t be trusted to pump only their allocation then the pumping and distribution might also have to be done by a public authority. Any extra water that irrigators need from water haversting machine or any other fancy tech they can pay for themselves.

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray-Darling.

It is a fair comment. Sad to say, our rivers may soon be a few condensation plates in the kitchen and bathroom.

mollwollfumble said:

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray, Darling.

Climate change could. According to met bureau predictions, the headwaters of the Murray and Darling are predicted to get more rainfall over the next 80 years.

As opposed to Perth, which is in deep do do.

It won’t matter because in 80 years everything that depends on the rivers will have failed beforehand.

Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray-Darling.

The Government should get people to move away from the area then it can be returned to nature.

Just a thought

There was a time when hilltops and the stream banks were protected.
Sadly though it wasn’t long ago, it isn’t even in the dim past in most minds.
Hilltops and stream banks are nowadays open slather destruction to suit the greed of a few.

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

Well may we say “God save the Queen”, because nothing will save the Murray-Darling.

The Government should get people to move away from the area then it can be returned to nature.

Just a thought

yeah, but what are the rest of us in the big cities going to eat?

Plant it on your roof.

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I know nothing simple will fix it.

One start would be installing water harvesting machines from air.

Subsidized from the government like solar roof panels.

Phase them in over time so that all producers have some involvement in it.

Water harvesting machines are around in various forms, if tens of thousands of them are installed on farms and heavily subsidized then this would help.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-06-09/water-harvesting-from-desert-air/9836908

https://rainmakerww.com/technology-air-to-water/

https://academic.oup.com/ijlct/article/15/2/253/5718410

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6T3ICXWqjc

The amount of water available needs to be modeled more accurately. The allocations to irrigators calculated accordingly. If they can’t be trusted to pump only their allocation then the pumping and distribution might also have to be done by a public authority. Any extra water that irrigators need from water haversting machine or any other fancy tech they can pay for themselves.

Ha ha ha.
It was never done properly and everyone steals water in some form or other.
The gate is permanenty unhinged and the whole herd of horses have bolted.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Water harvesting machines are around in various forms, if tens of thousands of them are installed on farms and heavily subsidized then this would help.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-06-09/water-harvesting-from-desert-air/9836908

https://rainmakerww.com/technology-air-to-water/

https://academic.oup.com/ijlct/article/15/2/253/5718410

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6T3ICXWqjc

The amount of water available needs to be modeled more accurately. The allocations to irrigators calculated accordingly. If they can’t be trusted to pump only their allocation then the pumping and distribution might also have to be done by a public authority. Any extra water that irrigators need from water haversting machine or any other fancy tech they can pay for themselves.

Ha ha ha.
It was never done properly and everyone steals water in some form or other.
The gate is permanenty unhinged and the whole herd of horses have bolted.

Well it needs to be done properly and managed right across the board.

Isnt there some Murray Darling resource management authority.

All the farmers need work out their water needs, then it should be totalled up.

They need to look at the yearly water average then work out how much extra water to bring in by super pipe and water harvesting machines and local storage.

Without some resource management things will always be a mess.

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

The amount of water available needs to be modeled more accurately. The allocations to irrigators calculated accordingly. If they can’t be trusted to pump only their allocation then the pumping and distribution might also have to be done by a public authority. Any extra water that irrigators need from water haversting machine or any other fancy tech they can pay for themselves.

Ha ha ha.
It was never done properly and everyone steals water in some form or other.
The gate is permanenty unhinged and the whole herd of horses have bolted.

Well it needs to be done properly and managed right across the board.

Isnt there some Murray Darling resource management authority.

All the farmers need work out their water needs, then it should be totalled up.

They need to look at the yearly water average then work out how much extra water to bring in by super pipe and water harvesting machines and local storage.

Without some resource management things will always be a mess.

As I said. Horses having bolted. There will be shooting. There will be a war.

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Ha ha ha.
It was never done properly and everyone steals water in some form or other.
The gate is permanenty unhinged and the whole herd of horses have bolted.

Well it needs to be done properly and managed right across the board.

Isnt there some Murray Darling resource management authority.

All the farmers need work out their water needs, then it should be totalled up.

They need to look at the yearly water average then work out how much extra water to bring in by super pipe and water harvesting machines and local storage.

Without some resource management things will always be a mess.

As I said. Horses having bolted. There will be shooting. There will be a war.

The farmers are armed.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Well it needs to be done properly and managed right across the board.

Isnt there some Murray Darling resource management authority.

All the farmers need work out their water needs, then it should be totalled up.

They need to look at the yearly water average then work out how much extra water to bring in by super pipe and water harvesting machines and local storage.

Without some resource management things will always be a mess.

As I said. Horses having bolted. There will be shooting. There will be a war.

The farmers are armed.

Well, war or not it still needs to be managed properly on a larger scale

The differences between projected water needs and actual water used should be looked at more closely too.

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

As I said. Horses having bolted. There will be shooting. There will be a war.

The farmers are armed.

Well, war or not it still needs to be managed properly on a larger scale

The differences between projected water needs and actual water used should be looked at more closely too.

There is no argument that matters more than better management.

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

The farmers are armed.

Well, war or not it still needs to be managed properly on a larger scale

The differences between projected water needs and actual water used should be looked at more closely too.

There is no argument that matters more than better management.

Yes.

People who are harvesting water from air could sell it to the relevant water authority/local council who would then sell it to producers.

Tau.Neutrino said:

People who are harvesting water from air could sell it to the relevant water authority/local council who would then sell it to producers.

Another way to bring in water is excess water from floods

best places that flood,

Water collection

Water filtering

Water storage

Transport

Rural planners and farmers need to look at satellite data across the Murray-Darling and understand whats going on.

Extra water needs to be looked at seriously, super pipes, flood areas, water extraction from air technology and better management.

Better management involves science, engineering horticulture, weather data and many other things.

Very interconnected.

^

I left out a comma, .

Discussion needs to consider the bigger picture and the smaller pictures.

If water needs are continually outstripping supply than it should be looked seriously at not ignored year after year.

Rural planners need to consider extra water needs and look at building it in.