Carcinisation (or carcinization) is an example of convergent evolution in which a crustacean evolves into a crab-like form from a non-crab-like form. The term was introduced into evolutionary biology by L. A. Borradaile, who described it as “one of the many attempts of Nature to evolve a crab”.

Carcinisation is believed to have occurred independently in at least five groups of decapod crustaceans:

King crabs, which most scientists believe evolved from hermit crab ancestorsPorcelain crabs, which are closely related to squat lobstersThe hairy stone crab (Lomis hirta)The coconut crab (Birgus latro)True crabs (Brachyura)

A prehistoric example is the extinct crustacean order Cyclida, which evolved their crab-like morphology before the existence of true crabs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation

Is the crab form a particularly optimal evolutionary endpoint?

Compared to other convergent evolutions, is carcinisation particularly favourable?

dv said:

Carcinisation (or carcinization) is an example of convergent evolution in which a crustacean evolves into a crab-like form from a non-crab-like form. The term was introduced into evolutionary biology by L. A. Borradaile, who described it as “one of the many attempts of Nature to evolve a crab”.

Carcinisation is believed to have occurred independently in at least five groups of decapod crustaceans:

King crabs, which most scientists believe evolved from hermit crab ancestors. Porcelain crabs, which are closely related to squat lobsters. The hairy stone crab (Lomis hirta). The coconut crab (Birgus latro)True crabs (Brachyura)

A prehistoric example is the extinct crustacean order Cyclida, which evolved their crab-like morphology before the existence of true crabs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation

> Is the crab form a particularly optimal evolutionary endpoint?
> Compared to other convergent evolutions, is carcinisation particularly favourable?

“convergent evolution in which a crustacean evolves into a crab-like form from a non-crab-like form.”

I have heard of this, though not under the specific name “carcinisation”.

I’m more interested in other branches of crustacea: anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, ostracod, copepod, shrimp, marella. None of which has shown any particular tendency to evolve into a crab-like form.

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

Carcinisation (or carcinization) is an example of convergent evolution in which a crustacean evolves into a crab-like form from a non-crab-like form. The term was introduced into evolutionary biology by L. A. Borradaile, who described it as “one of the many attempts of Nature to evolve a crab”.

Carcinisation is believed to have occurred independently in at least five groups of decapod crustaceans:

King crabs, which most scientists believe evolved from hermit crab ancestors. Porcelain crabs, which are closely related to squat lobsters. The hairy stone crab (Lomis hirta). The coconut crab (Birgus latro)True crabs (Brachyura)

A prehistoric example is the extinct crustacean order Cyclida, which evolved their crab-like morphology before the existence of true crabs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation

> Is the crab form a particularly optimal evolutionary endpoint?
> Compared to other convergent evolutions, is carcinisation particularly favourable?

“convergent evolution in which a crustacean evolves into a crab-like form from a non-crab-like form.”

I have heard of this, though not under the specific name “carcinisation”.

I’m more interested in other branches of crustacea: anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, ostracod, copepod, shrimp, marella. None of which has shown any particular tendency to evolve into a crab-like form.

I found some ostracods (a lot, really) in a freshwater pool northeast of Armidale (NSW) when I was doing my first year biology arthropod collection. Never seen any before or since.

mollwollfumble said:

I’m more interested in other branches of crustacea: anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, ostracod, copepod, shrimp, marella.

anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, marella are not crustacea.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’m more interested in other branches of crustacea: anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, ostracod, copepod, shrimp, marella.

anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, marella are not crustacea.

But are they tasty? I suppose that with the anomalocaris, trilobite and eurypterid we’ll never know.

sibeen said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’m more interested in other branches of crustacea: anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, ostracod, copepod, shrimp, marella.

anomalocaris, trilobite, eurypterid, horseshoe crab, scorpion, marella are not crustacea.

But are they tasty? I suppose that with the anomalocaris, trilobite and eurypterid we’ll never know.

OR WILL WE????

On a side note, why is cancer (‘carcin-’) associated with the crab? It is the same in Czech also (‘rak’/‘rakovina’).

Speedy said:

On a side note, why is cancer (‘carcin-’) associated with the crab? It is the same in Czech also (‘rak’/‘rakovina’).

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC). He is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors. In Greek this means a crab. The description was names after the crab because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab.Later Roman physician, Celsus (28-50 BC) translated the Greek term into cancer, the Latin word for crab…

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

On a side note, why is cancer (‘carcin-’) associated with the crab? It is the same in Czech also (‘rak’/‘rakovina’).

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC). He is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors. In Greek this means a crab. The description was names after the crab because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab.Later Roman physician, Celsus (28-50 BC) translated the Greek term into cancer, the Latin word for crab…

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130754101

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

On a side note, why is cancer (‘carcin-’) associated with the crab? It is the same in Czech also (‘rak’/‘rakovina’).

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC). He is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors. In Greek this means a crab. The description was names after the crab because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab.Later Roman physician, Celsus (28-50 BC) translated the Greek term into cancer, the Latin word for crab…

Thanks Tamb.

I thought the scary melanoma ads, where the melanoma spreads like the tentacles of an octopus, was just for dramatic effect. This news is not good for my health anxieties.

also, it has rather a constellation of symptoms

Speedy said:

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

On a side note, why is cancer (‘carcin-’) associated with the crab? It is the same in Czech also (‘rak’/‘rakovina’).

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC). He is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors. In Greek this means a crab. The description was names after the crab because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab.Later Roman physician, Celsus (28-50 BC) translated the Greek term into cancer, the Latin word for crab…

Thanks Tamb.

I thought the scary melanoma ads, where the melanoma spreads like the tentacles of an octopus, was just for dramatic effect. This news is not good for my health anxieties.

I’m pleased that mine isn’t a crabby form. Those buggers hurt.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

On a side note, why is cancer (‘carcin-’) associated with the crab? It is the same in Czech also (‘rak’/‘rakovina’).

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC). He is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors. In Greek this means a crab. The description was names after the crab because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab.Later Roman physician, Celsus (28-50 BC) translated the Greek term into cancer, the Latin word for crab…

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130754101

Interesting.

Dr. MARKEL: And he applied the Greek word karkinos, which means crab. A lot of explanations, all of them equally wonderful and all of them equally difficult to prove, but why did he use that? And if you examine a tumor, if you actually feel malignant tumor, you’ll note that it’s hard as a rock. And so some have explained that it reminded him of the hard shell of a crab. But others have said it may remind him of – may have reminded him of the pain that a malignant tumor induces. It’s much like the sharp pinch of a crab’s claw. And an even better version is that it suggests the tenacity with which, you know, a crab bites you

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

Tamb said:

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC). He is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors. In Greek this means a crab. The description was names after the crab because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab.Later Roman physician, Celsus (28-50 BC) translated the Greek term into cancer, the Latin word for crab…

Thanks Tamb.

I thought the scary melanoma ads, where the melanoma spreads like the tentacles of an octopus, was just for dramatic effect. This news is not good for my health anxieties.

I’m pleased that mine isn’t a crabby form. Those buggers hurt.

That’s interesting too. I’ve recently been through the process of having a mammogram due to ongoing breast pain, and was assured by many health professionals that typically breast cancer does not present as such. Thankfully my results were good, but I’ve been told that apart from taking pain killers, there is nothing I can do.

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

On a side note, why is cancer (‘carcin-’) associated with the crab? It is the same in Czech also (‘rak’/‘rakovina’).

The disease was first called cancer by Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC). He is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors. In Greek this means a crab. The description was names after the crab because the finger-like spreading projections from a cancer called to mind the shape of a crab.Later Roman physician, Celsus (28-50 BC) translated the Greek term into cancer, the Latin word for crab…

Interesting, thanks.

Speedy said:

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

Thanks Tamb.

I thought the scary melanoma ads, where the melanoma spreads like the tentacles of an octopus, was just for dramatic effect. This news is not good for my health anxieties.

I’m pleased that mine isn’t a crabby form. Those buggers hurt.

That’s interesting too. I’ve recently been through the process of having a mammogram due to ongoing breast pain, and was assured by many health professionals that typically breast cancer does not present as such. Thankfully my results were good, but I’ve been told that apart from taking pain killers, there is nothing I can do.

Did they say what is causing the pain?

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

Tamb said:

I’m pleased that mine isn’t a crabby form. Those buggers hurt.

That’s interesting too. I’ve recently been through the process of having a mammogram due to ongoing breast pain, and was assured by many health professionals that typically breast cancer does not present as such. Thankfully my results were good, but I’ve been told that apart from taking pain killers, there is nothing I can do.

Did they say what is causing the pain?

Progesterone, I was told. I did not have my ovaries removed when I had my hysterectomy last year, so this will likely be ongoing until I reach ‘menopause’.

Speedy said:

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

That’s interesting too. I’ve recently been through the process of having a mammogram due to ongoing breast pain, and was assured by many health professionals that typically breast cancer does not present as such. Thankfully my results were good, but I’ve been told that apart from taking pain killers, there is nothing I can do.

Did they say what is causing the pain?

Progesterone, I was told. I did not have my ovaries removed when I had my hysterectomy last year, so this will likely be ongoing until I reach ‘menopause’.

Sending sympathy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7p3ct5hcks

Nosferatu (Blu-Ray HD Remastered) | 1922

1:28:07

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

Tamb said:

Did they say what is causing the pain?

Progesterone, I was told. I did not have my ovaries removed when I had my hysterectomy last year, so this will likely be ongoing until I reach ‘menopause’.

Sending sympathy.

Thanks Tamb. It’s actually not too bad if I know it’s nothing serious. Actually, it’s kind of a reassurance that things are still working as they should be :)

Speedy said:

Tamb said:

Speedy said:

That’s interesting too. I’ve recently been through the process of having a mammogram due to ongoing breast pain, and was assured by many health professionals that typically breast cancer does not present as such. Thankfully my results were good, but I’ve been told that apart from taking pain killers, there is nothing I can do.

Did they say what is causing the pain?

Progesterone, I was told. I did not have my ovaries removed when I had my hysterectomy last year, so this will likely be ongoing until I reach ‘menopause’.

Bugger.

:(

https://youtu.be/wvfR3XLXPvw

I dont understand how to link here. Soz. Vid is from pbs eons

Trevtaowillgetyounowhere said:

https://youtu.be/wvfR3XLXPvw

I dont understand how to link here. Soz. Vid is from pbs eons

Trevs Vid

ChrispenEvan said:

Trevtaowillgetyounowhere said:

https://youtu.be/wvfR3XLXPvw

I dont understand how to link here. Soz. Vid is from pbs eons

Trevs Vid

not that it matters as mostbrowsers these days have right click open in new tab. so you just highlight the url.

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Trevtaowillgetyounowhere said:

https://youtu.be/wvfR3XLXPvw

I dont understand how to link here. Soz. Vid is from pbs eons

Trevs Vid

not that it matters as mostbrowsers these days have right click open in new tab. so you just highlight the url.

oh so THAT’S how dv ended up posting about it

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Trevs Vid

not that it matters as mostbrowsers these days have right click open in new tab. so you just highlight the url.

oh so THAT’S how dv ended up posting about it

Prolly I assume he wasnt born knowing it.