There you go.

I’ve been away reading Scientific American and Thief of Time. I think it’s my second favourite Discworld book, after Reaper Man. It’s very complex.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/us-election-live-blog-november-15/12884268

You know how the figures for the virus are bad now…this lot have just imported a lot more of it into DC. Watch those figures over the next two weeks…

This is from the ABC blog. I found it interesting:
———————————————————————————————————-

The Proud Boys have decided they really like a specific type of polo shirt — black with yellow edging — that is manufactured by clothing brand Fred Perry.

There are a few theories floating around as to why The Proud Boys love this shirt and one of them MAY have to do with the fact Fred Perry’s logo, a yellow wreath, is similar to some imagery associated with hate groups.

The Fred Perry brand is NOT HAPPY about this.

They released a statement in September distancing themselves from The Proud Boys and any sort of movement that did not embrace diversity and tolerance.

They said the “shirt is a piece of British subcultural uniform, adopted by various groups of people who recognise their own values in what it stands for”.

“We are proud of its lineage and what the Laurel Wreath has represented for over 65 years: inclusivity, diversity and independence. The Black/Yellow/Yellow twin tipped shirt has been an important part of that uniform since its introduction in the late 70s, and has been adopted generation after generation by various subcultures, without prejudice. “Despite its lineage, we have seen that the Black/Yellow/Yellow twin tipped shirt is taking on a new and very different meaning in North America as a result of its association with the Proud Boys. “That association is something we must do our best to end. “We therefore made the decision to stop selling the Black/Yellow/Yellow twin tipped shirt in the US from September 2019, and we will not sell it there or in Canada again until we’re satisfied that its association with the Proud Boys has ended. “To be absolutely clear, if you see any Proud Boys materials or products featuring our Laurel Wreath or any Black/Yellow/Yellow related items, they have absolutely nothing to do with us, and we are working with our lawyers to pursue any unlawful use of our brand.”

—————————————————————————————————————-

Good on the Fred Perry company.

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

buffy said:

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

I don’t agree with their point of view but being able to take to the streets in peaceful protest is a cornerstone of democracies, I support that.
They are not burning cars and looting which seems to be the Antifa method.

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

I don’t agree with their point of view but being able to take to the streets in peaceful protest is a cornerstone of democracies, I support that.
They are not burning cars and looting which seems to be the Antifa method.

I understand you are not allowed to carry firearms in that area. I see some of them may not have read the rules as the police have arrested people on firearms charges. I guess if people were coming in from other states, as reported, they may not have bothered to find out the local rules.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/sa-reports-new-coronavirus-cases-outside-of-hotel-quarantine/12885746

Contagious bugger, isn’t it.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/sa-reports-new-coronavirus-cases-outside-of-hotel-quarantine/12885746

Contagious bugger, isn’t it.

Australia has done exceptionally well and we are going to come out of this smelling of roses but our geographical position in the world has played a big part.
Most countries with land borders are getting hammered, the USA, Canada, Mexico are getting hammered, not to mention South America that is suffering greatly but getting hardly any mention.
And Europe and the UK are getting really hammered with the second wave.
Our self congratulatory jingoism should be tempered by the fact that we really are a lucky country.

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/sa-reports-new-coronavirus-cases-outside-of-hotel-quarantine/12885746

Contagious bugger, isn’t it.

Australia has done exceptionally well and we are going to come out of this smelling of roses but our geographical position in the world has played a big part.
Most countries with land borders are getting hammered, the USA, Canada, Mexico are getting hammered, not to mention South America that is suffering greatly but getting hardly any mention.
And Europe and the UK are getting really hammered with the second wave.
Our self congratulatory jingoism should be tempered by the fact that we really are a lucky country.

Blessed by God!

buffy said:

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

Looks like they all need counselling.

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

I don’t agree with their point of view but being able to take to the streets in peaceful protest is a cornerstone of democracies, I support that.
They are not burning cars and looting which seems to be the Antifa method.

Antifa don’t have evening torch parades chanting ‘the Jews will not replace us’ so they have that going for them. Are you seriously parroting Trump on antifa?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

I don’t agree with their point of view but being able to take to the streets in peaceful protest is a cornerstone of democracies, I support that.
They are not burning cars and looting which seems to be the Antifa method.

Antifa don’t have evening torch parades chanting ‘the Jews will not replace us’ so they have that going for them. Are you seriously parroting Trump on antifa?

I’m my own man, I parrot nobody but I’ll have no truck with Donald Trump or Jeremy Corbyn or anybody who vilifies a person on their religion, gender of ethnicity.
I’ll also have no truck with people who demonstrate by burning and looting.

Peak Warming Man said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t agree with their point of view but being able to take to the streets in peaceful protest is a cornerstone of democracies, I support that.
They are not burning cars and looting which seems to be the Antifa method.

Antifa don’t have evening torch parades chanting ‘the Jews will not replace us’ so they have that going for them. Are you seriously parroting Trump on antifa?

I’m my own man, I parrot nobody but I’ll have no truck with Donald Trump or Jeremy Corbyn or anybody who vilifies a person on their religion, gender of ethnicity.
I’ll also have no truck with people who demonstrate by burning and looting.

As a matter of interest, have people actually been charged with burning and looting charges and if so, who were they? I saw something about out of towners at one stage.

Peak Warming Man said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t agree with their point of view but being able to take to the streets in peaceful protest is a cornerstone of democracies, I support that.
They are not burning cars and looting which seems to be the Antifa method.

Antifa don’t have evening torch parades chanting ‘the Jews will not replace us’ so they have that going for them. Are you seriously parroting Trump on antifa?

I’m my own man, I parrot nobody but I’ll have no truck with Donald Trump or Jeremy Corbyn or anybody who vilifies a person on their religion, gender of ethnicity.
I’ll also have no truck with people who demonstrate by burning and looting.

I’ve said it many times before that if the police are killing black people with impunity in broad daylight law and order has clearly already broken down so it’s not surprising that people are rioting.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Antifa don’t have evening torch parades chanting ‘the Jews will not replace us’ so they have that going for them. Are you seriously parroting Trump on antifa?

I’m my own man, I parrot nobody but I’ll have no truck with Donald Trump or Jeremy Corbyn or anybody who vilifies a person on their religion, gender of ethnicity.
I’ll also have no truck with people who demonstrate by burning and looting.

I’ve said it many times before that if the police are killing black people with impunity in broad daylight law and order has clearly already broken down so it’s not surprising that people are rioting.

And its not surprising that over half of America is stupid.

I don’t think Antifa evens exists except in the minds of Trump and his ilk. Pretty much any sort of violence that they haven’t directly organised themselves they blame on Antifa as if they are some shadowy organisation with powers and following to deliberately arrange these things. I just don’t think such a group exists. It is just trying to link various disparate and desultory outbursts of violence into some sort of a conspiracy.

buffy said:

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

What are they proud of?

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-equally-violent/

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-equally-violent/

Equally stupid as well.

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-equally-violent/

rwnj always seem more concerned in property than human life. sad really.

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/sa-reports-new-coronavirus-cases-outside-of-hotel-quarantine/12885746

Contagious bugger, isn’t it.

Australia has done exceptionally well and we are going to come out of this smelling of roses but our geographical position in the world has played a big part.
Most countries with land borders are getting hammered, the USA, Canada, Mexico are getting hammered, not to mention South America that is suffering greatly but getting hardly any mention.
And Europe and the UK are getting really hammered with the second wave.
Our self congratulatory jingoism should be tempered by the fact that we really are a lucky country.

I was telling that to an acquaintance only just yesterday

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Is this bloke wearing a tinfoil hat?!

Those are the shirts from my previous post, too.

What are they proud of?

Not their dress sense, that’s for sure.

I must get the name of their tailor. So i can avoid him.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/sa-reports-new-coronavirus-cases-outside-of-hotel-quarantine/12885746

Contagious bugger, isn’t it.

Australia has done exceptionally well and we are going to come out of this smelling of roses but our geographical position in the world has played a big part.
Most countries with land borders are getting hammered, the USA, Canada, Mexico are getting hammered, not to mention South America that is suffering greatly but getting hardly any mention.
And Europe and the UK are getting really hammered with the second wave.
Our self congratulatory jingoism should be tempered by the fact that we really are a lucky country.

I was telling that to an acquaintance only just yesterday

‘…our home is girt by sea…’

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Antifa don’t have evening torch parades chanting ‘the Jews will not replace us’ so they have that going for them. Are you seriously parroting Trump on antifa?

I’m my own man, I parrot nobody but I’ll have no truck with Donald Trump or Jeremy Corbyn or anybody who vilifies a person on their religion, gender of ethnicity.
I’ll also have no truck with people who demonstrate by burning and looting.

I’ve said it many times before that if the police are killing black people with impunity in broad daylight law and order has clearly already broken down so it’s not surprising that people are rioting.

FWIW I do not condone the looting but I do understand it. What I’m interested in is lives and livelihoods. Anything not directly connected to either are just chattels in an accountant’s ledger AFAIAC.

Remember that Jesus didn’t just tell parables and heal people: he also overturned tables in temples.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’m my own man, I parrot nobody but I’ll have no truck with Donald Trump or Jeremy Corbyn or anybody who vilifies a person on their religion, gender of ethnicity.
I’ll also have no truck with people who demonstrate by burning and looting.

I’ve said it many times before that if the police are killing black people with impunity in broad daylight law and order has clearly already broken down so it’s not surprising that people are rioting.

FWIW I do not condone the looting but I do understand it. What I’m interested in is lives and livelihoods. Anything not directly connected to either are just chattels in an accountant’s ledger AFAIAC.

Remember that Jesus didn’t just tell parables and heal people: he also overturned tables in temples.

Yeah, I don’t get how the Far-right Jesus followers never seem to notice what a lefty he was.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I’ve said it many times before that if the police are killing black people with impunity in broad daylight law and order has clearly already broken down so it’s not surprising that people are rioting.

FWIW I do not condone the looting but I do understand it. What I’m interested in is lives and livelihoods. Anything not directly connected to either are just chattels in an accountant’s ledger AFAIAC.

Remember that Jesus didn’t just tell parables and heal people: he also overturned tables in temples.

Yeah, I don’t get how the Far-right Jesus followers never seem to notice what a lefty he was.

They’d rather hear about how ‘God wants you to be rich’.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I’ve said it many times before that if the police are killing black people with impunity in broad daylight law and order has clearly already broken down so it’s not surprising that people are rioting.

FWIW I do not condone the looting but I do understand it. What I’m interested in is lives and livelihoods. Anything not directly connected to either are just chattels in an accountant’s ledger AFAIAC.

Remember that Jesus didn’t just tell parables and heal people: he also overturned tables in temples.

Yeah, I don’t get how the Far-right Jesus followers never seem to notice what a lefty he was.

It has always been a matter of wonderment for me as well.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wonder of wonders.

Half a century since its eradication in the west, it is hard today to appreciate the terrible effect that polio had on people’s lives then and how feared it was as a disease. The virus killed hundreds every year in the UK alone, and left thousands afflicted with long-lasting paralysis.

A list of noted figures who contracted polio in their youths reveals its global impact. Among those who suffered were Arthur C Clarke, Donald Sutherland, Mia Farrow, Francis Ford Coppola, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Frida Kahlo and many others.

In the end, polio was defeated, emphatically, by vaccines that were introduced in the 50s and 60s in the west and later in other parts of the planet. Today, only Pakistan and Afghanistan still suffer outbreaks caused by the wild form of the virus. The polio vaccine is proof of the power of immunisation programmes to save lives.

But there is a sting to this tale, one which has important implications for how we deal with Covid-19 in coming months. The vaccine that has so effectively dealt with polio for the past four or five decades is getting old. In a few rare cases, the disabled virus used by the vaccine to stimulate immune systems in advance of infection has mutated. The result has been the emergence of a strain, known as vaccine-derived poliovirus, which is spreading across nations.

According to the journal Science, more than 600 vaccine-derived cases of polio have been recorded this year, a fivefold increase in numbers on last year, with a total of 23 countries, most of them in Africa, now battling rising numbers of vaccine-derived polio outbreaks.

“It’s really quite worrying,” says epidemiologist Kathleen O’Reilly, of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. “The geographic spread of cases suggests there is a lot of transmission going on now.”

A new polio vaccine has now been created to deal with these cases. It also uses a weakened live virus, but it has been genetically engineered to prevent it from mutating and becoming harmful. This new vaccine is now being tested, with funds provided by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and others.

However, the vaccine is not yet licensed. Not surprisingly, this is causing frustration as vaccine-derived polio cases rise alarmingly.

As a result, many doctors and scientists are now urging the World Health Organization to use its emergency-use listing process to give them the go-ahead to use the vaccine now. Given that the same WHO emergency-use listing process is likely to be used to give the go-ahead to many of the vaccines being developed to counter Covid-19, it’s not hard to see parallels between our highly charged responses to the arrival of the coronavirus and frustrated reactions to the emergence of the new strain of polio.

Both cases are urgent. With Covid-19, numbers of cases and deaths continue to spiral. Equally, the issues surrounding the new strain of polio are becoming critical, as epidemiologist Professor Nicholas Grassly, of Imperial College London, points out.

“We are currently responding to outbreaks of vaccine-derived poliovirus by using millions of doses of the old polio vaccine, yet this itself is responsible for seeding more outbreaks,” he told the Observer. “At the same time, we have got a vaccine that gets round that issue and we need to get it out into widespread use. This is the tool we need to halt the spread of vaccine-derived polio outbreaks, and it should be put into the field as a matter of urgency.”

PermeateFree said:

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/sa-reports-new-coronavirus-cases-outside-of-hotel-quarantine/12885746

Contagious bugger, isn’t it.

Australia has done exceptionally well and we are going to come out of this smelling of roses but our geographical position in the world has played a big part.
Most countries with land borders are getting hammered, the USA, Canada, Mexico are getting hammered, not to mention South America that is suffering greatly but getting hardly any mention.
And Europe and the UK are getting really hammered with the second wave.
Our self congratulatory jingoism should be tempered by the fact that we really are a lucky country.

Blessed by God!

There’s much focus on 4 positive tests but we should remember the following features are even more concerning: – suddenly detecting several means delayed detection and likely more to find – others showing symptoms (4 of these) means almost certainly more to find – corrections as we already know is a dangerous place

—

¿ wait, so this can happen in Liberal states as well ?

¿ wait, can we find a way to blame Dan for this ?

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wonder of wonders.

we’d like to thank our partner COMMON SENSE in this success* story

*: let’s give it a week to see how Steve marshals their prisoners of COVID-19 before we call it that shall we

The SMH is reporting that travellers heading to WA from South Australia will have to self-quarantine effective immediately after an outbreak in the state forced WA Premier Mark McGowan to tighten the rules on WA’s recently relaxed border.

Linky to article

Rule 303 said:

The SMH is reporting that travellers heading to WA from South Australia will have to self-quarantine effective immediately after an outbreak in the state forced WA Premier Mark McGowan to tighten the rules on WA’s recently relaxed border.

Linky to article

See it isn’t only because we are an island. It is also because each state has more or less potential to be isolate.

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

The SMH is reporting that travellers heading to WA from South Australia will have to self-quarantine effective immediately after an outbreak in the state forced WA Premier Mark McGowan to tighten the rules on WA’s recently relaxed border.

Linky to article

See it isn’t only because we are an island. It is also because each state has more or less potential to be isolate.

sure but which other places in the world turn around on the same day and make decisive appropriate changes to their rules when new information arises

excluding the dirty lying ASIANS of course, it’s all their* fault

*: and Dan’s

⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

anyway what are your guesses on how many linked cases there’ll be, we’ll start by saying 16, anyone else

SCIENCE said:

anyway what are your guesses on how many linked cases there’ll be, we’ll start by saying 16, anyone else

could be as many as 36. All depends how quickly it was jumped on.

90 in quarantine SA.

Prison worker becomes the fourth person diagnosed with coronavirus in worrying South Australian outbreak after a hotel quarantine staffer infected her family

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8950393/Fears-coronavirus-outbreak-South-Australia-90-people-quarantine.html

Nervous lot in WA.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Nervous lot in WA.

reaches for hand sanitiser

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Nervous lot in WA.

reaches for hand sanitiser

:)
Can’t use the stuff. My hands are too cracked.
Plenty surface areas for virus to lurk.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Nervous lot in WA.

we’ve had it so good for so long now, it’d be a shame to be sent back…

Arts said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Nervous lot in WA.

we’ve had it so good for so long now, it’d be a shame to be sent back…

Same here.

only talking about eastern stater plague rats earlier.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1327701477008285696

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

anyway what are your guesses on how many linked cases there’ll be, we’ll start by saying 16, anyone else

could be as many as 36. All depends how quickly it was jumped on.

Seventeen coronavirus cases are linked to a cluster in Adelaide’s northern suburbs, says South Australia’s Chief Public Health Officer. ~ as at 8:52 my time.

17th day without a new case or death for Vic.

We don’t have a clear answer on when we will be allowed to remove our masks in public, but I’ll be calling it Burn Lame Mask Day – Or BLM Day – which should generate some entertainment.

Rule 303 said:

17th day without a new case or death for Vic.

We don’t have a clear answer on when we will be allowed to remove our masks in public, but I’ll be calling it Burn Lame Mask Day – Or BLM Day – which should generate some entertainment.

Love the humour.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

anyway what are your guesses on how many linked cases there’ll be, we’ll start by saying 16, anyone else

could be as many as 36. All depends how quickly it was jumped on.

Seventeen coronavirus cases are linked to a cluster in Adelaide’s northern suburbs, says South Australia’s Chief Public Health Officer. ~ as at 8:52 my time.

Fuck.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/seventeen-cases-adelaide-coronavirus-cluster-lyell-mcewin-/12886218

Fuck.

She said she did not know if any of the people who tested positive had attended Saturday night’s Christmas pageant at Adelaide Oval.

Fuck.

South Australian Police Commissioner Grant Stevens said the next 24 to 48 hours would be pivotal in determining if restrictions and closures were enforced.

Wake up you geniuses, this is a surprise 17, not a planned exercise. Have we not learned in 10 months that the correct move is prevent then confirm, not wait then rush to catch up…

Be interesting to see what the SA Premier has to say today, will they go down the lockdown route?
17 this morning, probably double that at least before the contact tracers swing into gear.

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

could be as many as 36. All depends how quickly it was jumped on.

Seventeen coronavirus cases are linked to a cluster in Adelaide’s northern suburbs, says South Australia’s Chief Public Health Officer. ~ as at 8:52 my time.

Fuck.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/seventeen-cases-adelaide-coronavirus-cluster-lyell-mcewin-/12886218

Fuck.

She said she did not know if any of the people who tested positive had attended Saturday night’s Christmas pageant at Adelaide Oval.

Fuck.

South Australian Police Commissioner Grant Stevens said the next 24 to 48 hours would be pivotal in determining if restrictions and closures were enforced.

Wake up you geniuses, this is a surprise 17, not a planned exercise. Have we not learned in 10 months that the correct move is prevent then confirm, not wait then rush to catch up…

Yes didn’t see your post, it’s going to be interesting, one of the cases was from an aged care facility.

Politics Outweighs Good Sense Yet Again

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/nsw-no-local-coroanvirus-cases-for-ninth-day/12886478

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says the state has no plans at this stage to close its border to South Australia following a coronavirus outbreak in Adelaide. “I know that other state governments have announced they’re either reassessing their border situation or not allowing people from that so-called hotspot to enter their state,” she said. “NSW isn’t taking that position. We’re watching the situation closely.”

“We need to live with COVID and every time there is an outbreak, you can’t shut down borders and disrupt lives and businesses. “We need to have confidence not just in our system, but the systems in other states to be able to get on top of the virus.”

Ms Berejiklian took another swipe at the Queensland Government’s continued ban on Greater Sydney residents entering the state. “The Queensland Government’s decision-making is beyond me. “You can’t open and shut borders and change things overnight every time there is an outbreak.”

clown

SCIENCE said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/nsw-no-local-coroanvirus-cases-for-ninth-day/12886478

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says the state has no plans at this stage to close its border to South Australia following a coronavirus outbreak in Adelaide.

clown

contrast with expert advice, imagine if experts might from time to time give good advice

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/melbourne/programs/mornings/sa-cluster-shows-we-need-to-stop-hotel-quarantine-in-major-citie/12886556

After months without any community transmission South Australia is trying to control a COVID-19 cluster that began in an Adelaide medi-hotel.
Infectious diseases expert and epidemiologist Mary-Louise McLaws told Virginia Trioli the Adelaide cluster shows why hotel quarantine programs should be shut down in favour of purpose built quarantine stations.

“Hotel quarantines were a great idea to get Australians and residents back home, but it should only have been an interim idea,” Professor McLaws said. “We do need to start thinking about a purpose built environment.”

She also says:

• Staff should get rapid covid tests before returning home
• Any quarantine facility should be away from major cities
• “There needs to be a national approach”
• And that purpose-built quarantine stations “are the only way”, hotels are not built for quarantine

but can we add, as a possible expert, that it’s also all Dan’s fault

news.com headline.

“South Australia explodes.’

It’s time to rethink indoor airflow to reduce the spread of COVID-19, say experts

In recent weeks the World Health Organization and the United States Centers for Disease Control have acknowledged airborne aerosols as important in COVID-19 transmission

Why has indoor airflow not been a bigger part of the conversation?

Dr Robyn Schofield, an atmospheric chemist from the School of Earth Sciences at Melbourne University, said the threat of aerosol transmission is particularly significant for the virus spreading indoors.

“If you have an inside space with a lot of people in it, a lot of people breathing, you will get a lot of aerosol building up and so the risk is higher.

“If the source person is wearing a mask, most of the respiratory aerosol has been caught by the mask so the risk is lower but if masks are off, people are eating and there is poor ventilation, you have a situation where the risks are higher.”

UK-trained GP Dr David Berger has been advocating on behalf of frontline health workers during the pandemic.

He said there was a frustrating reticence to acknowledge the importance of airflow.

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

“As long as people believe that washing their hands and staying 1.5 metres apart is going to keep them safe, they are working on the wrong information. This is all about ventilation.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/ventilation-indoor-airflow-could-be-important-against-covid-19/12881444

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

Damn Those ASIANS And Their Face

SCIENCE said:

It’s time to rethink indoor airflow to reduce the spread of COVID-19, say experts

In recent weeks the World Health Organization and the United States Centers for Disease Control have acknowledged airborne aerosols as important in COVID-19 transmission

Why has indoor airflow not been a bigger part of the conversation?

Dr Robyn Schofield, an atmospheric chemist from the School of Earth Sciences at Melbourne University, said the threat of aerosol transmission is particularly significant for the virus spreading indoors.

“If you have an inside space with a lot of people in it, a lot of people breathing, you will get a lot of aerosol building up and so the risk is higher.

“If the source person is wearing a mask, most of the respiratory aerosol has been caught by the mask so the risk is lower but if masks are off, people are eating and there is poor ventilation, you have a situation where the risks are higher.”

UK-trained GP Dr David Berger has been advocating on behalf of frontline health workers during the pandemic.

He said there was a frustrating reticence to acknowledge the importance of airflow.

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

“As long as people believe that washing their hands and staying 1.5 metres apart is going to keep them safe, they are working on the wrong information. This is all about ventilation.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/ventilation-indoor-airflow-could-be-important-against-covid-19/12881444

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

Damn Those ASIANS And Their Face

Are you referring to the urban myth that all Asians look the same?

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

UK-trained GP Dr David Berger has been advocating on behalf of frontline health workers during the pandemic.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/ventilation-indoor-airflow-could-be-important-against-covid-19/12881444

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

Damn Those ASIANS And Their Face

Are you referring to the urban myth that all Asians look the same?

it’s true, in all honesty, almost everyone looks the same under a mask

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49918889

Hong Kong’s government is set to announce a ban on wearing face masks at public gatherings, local media report.

Face masks are often worn by protesters to help prevent them from being identified and arrested by authorities.

⚠ referenced article is more than 1 year old

SCIENCE said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

UK-trained GP Dr David Berger has been advocating on behalf of frontline health workers during the pandemic.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/ventilation-indoor-airflow-could-be-important-against-covid-19/12881444

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

Damn Those ASIANS And Their Face

Are you referring to the urban myth that all Asians look the same?

it’s true, in all honesty, almost everyone looks the same under a mask

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49918889

Hong Kong’s government is set to announce a ban on wearing face masks at public gatherings, local media report.

Face masks are often worn by protesters to help prevent them from being identified and arrested by authorities.

⚠ referenced article is more than 1 year old

Racism is offensive.

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

It’s time to rethink indoor airflow to reduce the spread of COVID-19, say experts

In recent weeks the World Health Organization and the United States Centers for Disease Control have acknowledged airborne aerosols as important in COVID-19 transmission

Why has indoor airflow not been a bigger part of the conversation?

Dr Robyn Schofield, an atmospheric chemist from the School of Earth Sciences at Melbourne University, said the threat of aerosol transmission is particularly significant for the virus spreading indoors.

“If you have an inside space with a lot of people in it, a lot of people breathing, you will get a lot of aerosol building up and so the risk is higher.

“If the source person is wearing a mask, most of the respiratory aerosol has been caught by the mask so the risk is lower but if masks are off, people are eating and there is poor ventilation, you have a situation where the risks are higher.”

UK-trained GP Dr David Berger has been advocating on behalf of frontline health workers during the pandemic.

He said there was a frustrating reticence to acknowledge the importance of airflow.

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

“As long as people believe that washing their hands and staying 1.5 metres apart is going to keep them safe, they are working on the wrong information. This is all about ventilation.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/ventilation-indoor-airflow-could-be-important-against-covid-19/12881444

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

Damn Those ASIANS And Their Face

Are you referring to the urban myth that all Asians look the same?

it’s not an urban myth to people who are not Asians, or in any other ethnic group…. it’s a real thing called the cross race effect.

Huge area of research in eye witness identification… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

Tamb said:

Are you referring to the urban myth that all Asians look the same?

it’s true, in all honesty, almost everyone looks the same under a mask

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49918889

Hong Kong’s government is set to announce a ban on wearing face masks at public gatherings, local media report.

Face masks are often worn by protesters to help prevent them from being identified and arrested by authorities.

⚠ referenced article is more than 1 year old

Racism is offensive.

sorry, we’ll come clean

we were actually referring to the racist accusations early on that the pandemic occurred because all the ASIAN countries full of COVID-19 were hiding it to save face, and in the process deliberately harming everyone else

Arts said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

It’s time to rethink indoor airflow to reduce the spread of COVID-19, say experts

In recent weeks the World Health Organization and the United States Centers for Disease Control have acknowledged airborne aerosols as important in COVID-19 transmission

Why has indoor airflow not been a bigger part of the conversation?

Dr Robyn Schofield, an atmospheric chemist from the School of Earth Sciences at Melbourne University, said the threat of aerosol transmission is particularly significant for the virus spreading indoors.

“If you have an inside space with a lot of people in it, a lot of people breathing, you will get a lot of aerosol building up and so the risk is higher.

“If the source person is wearing a mask, most of the respiratory aerosol has been caught by the mask so the risk is lower but if masks are off, people are eating and there is poor ventilation, you have a situation where the risks are higher.”

UK-trained GP Dr David Berger has been advocating on behalf of frontline health workers during the pandemic.

He said there was a frustrating reticence to acknowledge the importance of airflow.

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

“As long as people believe that washing their hands and staying 1.5 metres apart is going to keep them safe, they are working on the wrong information. This is all about ventilation.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/ventilation-indoor-airflow-could-be-important-against-covid-19/12881444

“It almost seems like there is a lot of face and ego in this and people aren’t prepared to backtrack.

Damn Those ASIANS And Their Face

Are you referring to the urban myth that all Asians look the same?

it’s not an urban myth to people who are not Asians, or in any other ethnic group…. it’s a real thing called the cross race effect.

Huge area of research in eye witness identification… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect

You and your facts….

party_pants said:

Arts said:

Tamb said:

Are you referring to the urban myth that all Asians look the same?

it’s not an urban myth to people who are not Asians, or in any other ethnic group…. it’s a real thing called the cross race effect.

Huge area of research in eye witness identification… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect

You and your facts….

I handed my draft in last night, I have nothing to do but sit and wait for the corrections to come back, strap yourself in.

anyway since we’re talking about the races we have another question

⚠ minimal satire intended”

Remember all the clowns who would lay down “what about Sweden” “just look at Sweden” et cetera…

There’s another country which let it rip, and focused their protections.

BUT

Instead of 6164* / 177355 (3.5% case fatality), that other country got 28 / 58119 (that’s 0.05% case fatality). ¿ can you guess who ? Yes. ASIANS.

*: if you believe those lying socialists, they’re probably hiding millions of cases and deaths

¿ so, what the fuck is going on there eh, how did that other country do it ?

Well, instead of giving virus free run around the community and locking all the old and vulnerable away, they gave the virus free run around the young and vigorous and freed up the community!

¡ but we can’t gush about the Success Of South-East-Asian Democratic Singapore when we need to apologise for the Success Of Scandinavian Socialist Sweden !

Racism is offensive.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/travellers-say-nsw-health-ignoring-its-own-criteria-for-hotel-quarantine-exemptions-20201113-p56ejn.html

sarahs mum said:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/travellers-say-nsw-health-ignoring-its-own-criteria-for-hotel-quarantine-exemptions-20201113-p56ejn.html

⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

seriously they just need to stop whinging and spend that effort instead getting rich, famous or becoming a sports star

or just donate to the Party it’s easy

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

They’re saying that Elon has caught the Covids.

Ooooh

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/spacex-crew-prepare-to-launch-to-the-iss/12886704

that martian ‘flu’ thing was mentioned quite a while back but it’s really going to be a thing soon

SCIENCE said:

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

They’re saying that Elon has caught the Covids.

Ooooh

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/spacex-crew-prepare-to-launch-to-the-iss/12886704

that martian ‘flu’ thing was mentioned quite a while back but it’s really going to be a thing soon

Could get a microgravity mutation of a virus I imagine

“the impairment is mild, but … with a conservative … there is some impairment”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/15/damage-to-multiple-organs-recorded-in-long-covid-cases?CMP=share_btn_tw

Young and previously healthy people with ongoing symptoms of Covid-19 are showing signs of damage to multiple organs four months after the initial infection, a study suggests.

Preliminary data from the first 200 patients to undergo screening suggests that almost 70% have impairments in one or more organs, including the heart, lungs, liver and pancreas, four months after their initial illness.

“The good news is that the impairment is mild, but even with a conservative lens, there is some impairment, and in 25% of people it affects two or more organs,” said Amitava Banerjee, a cardiologist and associate professor of clinical data science at University College London.

However, the study doesn’t prove that organ impairments are the cause of people’s ongoing symptoms, and the data haven’t yet been peer-reviewed. Banerjee also cautioned that none of the patients were scanned before developing Covid-19, so some of them may have had existing impairments – although this is unlikely given their previous good health and relative youth. The average age of participants was 44.

⚠ satire not intended

SCIENCE said:

“the impairment is mild, but … with a conservative … there is some impairment”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/15/damage-to-multiple-organs-recorded-in-long-covid-cases?CMP=share_btn_tw

Young and previously healthy people with ongoing symptoms of Covid-19 are showing signs of damage to multiple organs four months after the initial infection, a study suggests.

Preliminary data from the first 200 patients to undergo screening suggests that almost 70% have impairments in one or more organs, including the heart, lungs, liver and pancreas, four months after their initial illness.

“The good news is that the impairment is mild, but even with a conservative lens, there is some impairment, and in 25% of people it affects two or more organs,” said Amitava Banerjee, a cardiologist and associate professor of clinical data science at University College London.

However, the study doesn’t prove that organ impairments are the cause of people’s ongoing symptoms, and the data haven’t yet been peer-reviewed. Banerjee also cautioned that none of the patients were scanned before developing Covid-19, so some of them may have had existing impairments – although this is unlikely given their previous good health and relative youth. The average age of participants was 44.

⚠ satire not intended

conservative Len

⚠ this post may contain satirical elements, not all of which are original but are attributed

Missing 54 days of school will lead to 5.53 million years of life lost

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2772834

https://twitter.com/GregoryBesharov/status/1327929934061441024

Solution: send them to Sunday School, 87.3% (95% CI 85.8, 107.9%) will gain Eternal Life. Amen.

—

In the article:

• Children miss days of school => decreased educational attainment => less life
• decreased educational attainment based on the association between teachers’ strikes in Argentina and the eventual earnings that children achieved (but data was incomplete and many Argentinian children in the cohort at the time did not attend secondary school)
• compare this to the DIRECT mortality from COVID-19. This means that they are only counting people who have died as a direct result of the disease

https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1327872367893176320

Correct interpretation: dead teachers don’t strike, so their students will achieve more education and The Economy Will Grow.

Let’s hope that pulling the plug at 17 will save SA more pain than pulling it at 170 conferatur VIC.

Coronavirus restrictions will be reintroduced across SA from midnight tonight

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/sa-reintroduces-coronavirus-restrictions-amid-outbreak/12887770

South Australia has reintroduced a number of significant restrictions in response to a coronavirus cluster in Adelaide’s northern suburbs.

Premier Steven Marshall said all inbound international flights to Adelaide have been cancelled for the remainder of this week and the Australian Defence Force will be mobilised in South Australia.

Chief Public Health Officer, Professor Nicola Spurrier, said despite significant rates of testing today, no new cases had been identified beyond the 17 confirmed this morning.

Premier Steven Marshall thanked the people of South Australia for flocking* to get tested.

*: flocking immunity — when people do the right thing, it makes the community more resistant to pandemic outbreaks

While there are similarities between what happened in Victoria and what’s unfolding in Adelaide, there are also some notable differences. The first is that South Australia has a very strong public health system, whereas Victoria’s has had many problems.

South Australia has an exceptionally strong public health system, some would say.

sarahs mum said:

Sky news.

‘States can’t open and close everytime theres a cluster’ Bolt.

“The panic merchants are still in chrgge’ Credlin

“Australian states must open their borders.’ Kenny

yeah it’s f’ed

except this time we don’t think it was specifically Bolt

various sources example https://www.katherinetimes.com.au/story/7013383/nsw-goes-it-alone-with-open-borders/ https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-16/nsw-no-local-coroanvirus-cases-for-ninth-day/12886478 you know

“We need to live with COVID and every time there is an outbreak, you can’t shut down borders and disrupt lives and businesses,” Ms Berejiklian said.

she’s a clown

and

it’s not like we just shut down the roads and disrupt lives and businesses every time there’s a big flood

… right ¿

transition said:

sarahs mum said:

Sky news.

‘States can’t open and close everytime theres a cluster’ Bolt.

“The panic merchants are still in chrgge’ Credlin

“Australian states must open their borders.’ Kenny

the howls of the anti-lockdown wolves, it’s a challenge to their subsidiary function views, the most extreme of them being that formal government should be shrunk into near non-existence, certainly less effectual, as I see’t

the other end of the nut is fortunately highly ignorable

unfortunately though they are actually our government, see above

COVID-19 cases are surging in America. What I saw there helps explain why

Americans never took the virus seriously, especially when a President says it will go away, like a miracle.

Tau.Neutrino said:

COVID-19 cases are surging in America. What I saw there helps explain why

Americans never took the virus seriously, especially when a President says it will go away, like a miracle.

⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

Just because “American” isn’t a race…

⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

Good News, In The USSA, SCIENCE No Longer Needs To Be Done The Old Fashioned Way

US drug manufacturer Moderna has released data that shows its experimental COVID-19 vaccine was 94.5 per cent effective, based on interim data from a late-stage trial.

Moderna’s interim analysis was based on 95 infections among trial participants who received either a placebo or the vaccine. Its findings were not published in a peer-reviewed journal paper. Of those, only five infections occurred in those who received the vaccine, which is administered in two shots, 28 days apart.

This makes the company the second US manufacturer to report results that far exceed expectations, following Pfizer’s announcement of promising vaccine test results last week.

The data from Moderna’s trial involving 30,000 volunteers also showed the vaccine prevented cases of severe COVID-19, a question that still remains with the Pfizer vaccine. Of the 95 cases in Moderna’s trial, 11 were severe and all 11 occurred among volunteers who got the placebo.

The coronavirus pandemic has “unleashed state corruption on a grand scale” that is “harmful to public health”, a scathing editorial in medical journal the BMJ has said.

In an unusually political intervention for the highly-respected scientific publication, it warns that politicians are “suppressing science” and accuses the government of “opportunistic embezzlement”.

“The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency – a time when it is even more important to safeguard science,” the article – penned by executive editor Kamran Abbasi – says.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/bmj-lashes-out-at-uk-state-corruption-and-suppression-of-science/16/11/?fbclid=IwAR3072N_4py2qgmOCcIHh0Ncs1D1AfBkcOwIX916ZNgcdtS5FICCgLgw8tI

Testing stations need to be more thought out if they have to turn people away for testing.

This seems to happen a lot.

Is there a where to deal with it better?

maybe limit it to one suburb, then limit it again within that suburb by streets in a quad pattern or some other pattern ?

work out the number of people living within an area, then plan forward with that.

or work out the numbers of people within a suburb and has each suburb varies work out each suburb beforehand to have enough tests for each suburb?

dv said:

The coronavirus pandemic has “unleashed state corruption on a grand scale” that is “harmful to public health”, a scathing editorial in medical journal the BMJ has said.

In an unusually political intervention for the highly-respected scientific publication, it warns that politicians are “suppressing science” and accuses the government of “opportunistic embezzlement”.

“The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency – a time when it is even more important to safeguard science,” the article – penned by executive editor Kamran Abbasi – says.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/bmj-lashes-out-at-uk-state-corruption-and-suppression-of-science/16/11/?fbclid=IwAR3072N_4py2qgmOCcIHh0Ncs1D1AfBkcOwIX916ZNgcdtS5FICCgLgw8tI

Nothing new here. Politics was always a dirty word in our house.

dv said:

The coronavirus pandemic has “unleashed state corruption on a grand scale” that is “harmful to public health”, a scathing editorial in medical journal the BMJ has said.

In an unusually political intervention for the highly-respected scientific publication, it warns that politicians are “suppressing science” and accuses the government of “opportunistic embezzlement”.

“The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency – a time when it is even more important to safeguard science,” the article – penned by executive editor Kamran Abbasi – says.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/bmj-lashes-out-at-uk-state-corruption-and-suppression-of-science/16/11/?fbclid=IwAR3072N_4py2qgmOCcIHh0Ncs1D1AfBkcOwIX916ZNgcdtS5FICCgLgw8tI

I am afraid it is mostly true.

party_pants said:

dv said:

The coronavirus pandemic has “unleashed state corruption on a grand scale” that is “harmful to public health”, a scathing editorial in medical journal the BMJ has said.

In an unusually political intervention for the highly-respected scientific publication, it warns that politicians are “suppressing science” and accuses the government of “opportunistic embezzlement”.

“The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency – a time when it is even more important to safeguard science,” the article – penned by executive editor Kamran Abbasi – says.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/bmj-lashes-out-at-uk-state-corruption-and-suppression-of-science/16/11/?fbclid=IwAR3072N_4py2qgmOCcIHh0Ncs1D1AfBkcOwIX916ZNgcdtS5FICCgLgw8tI

I am afraid it is mostly true.

Science is only of value if it can make money now.
Mostly business has tended to be about annual or daily bottom lines in regard to profit and loss.
Long range plans for how the environment may be in the future seems to have mainly taken the back seat or dropped off somewhere as excess baggage.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

The coronavirus pandemic has “unleashed state corruption on a grand scale” that is “harmful to public health”, a scathing editorial in medical journal the BMJ has said.

In an unusually political intervention for the highly-respected scientific publication, it warns that politicians are “suppressing science” and accuses the government of “opportunistic embezzlement”.

“The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency – a time when it is even more important to safeguard science,” the article – penned by executive editor Kamran Abbasi – says.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/bmj-lashes-out-at-uk-state-corruption-and-suppression-of-science/16/11/?fbclid=IwAR3072N_4py2qgmOCcIHh0Ncs1D1AfBkcOwIX916ZNgcdtS5FICCgLgw8tI

I am afraid it is mostly true.

Science is only of value if it can make money now.
Mostly business has tended to be about annual or daily bottom lines in regard to profit and loss.
Long range plans for how the environment may be in the future seems to have mainly taken the back seat or dropped off somewhere as excess baggage.

there is a hell of a lot more to science than just the environment.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

I am afraid it is mostly true.

Science is only of value if it can make money now.
Mostly business has tended to be about annual or daily bottom lines in regard to profit and loss.
Long range plans for how the environment may be in the future seems to have mainly taken the back seat or dropped off somewhere as excess baggage.

there is a hell of a lot more to science than just the environment.

Depending on which aspect of environment?

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Science is only of value if it can make money now.
Mostly business has tended to be about annual or daily bottom lines in regard to profit and loss.
Long range plans for how the environment may be in the future seems to have mainly taken the back seat or dropped off somewhere as excess baggage.

there is a hell of a lot more to science than just the environment.

Depending on which aspect of environment?

no. just science in general. not all of it is about making money.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

The coronavirus pandemic has “unleashed state corruption on a grand scale” that is “harmful to public health”, a scathing editorial in medical journal the BMJ has said.

In an unusually political intervention for the highly-respected scientific publication, it warns that politicians are “suppressing science” and accuses the government of “opportunistic embezzlement”.

“The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency – a time when it is even more important to safeguard science,” the article – penned by executive editor Kamran Abbasi – says.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/bmj-lashes-out-at-uk-state-corruption-and-suppression-of-science/16/11/?fbclid=IwAR3072N_4py2qgmOCcIHh0Ncs1D1AfBkcOwIX916ZNgcdtS5FICCgLgw8tI

I am afraid it is mostly true.

Science is only of value if it can make money now.
Mostly business has tended to be about annual or daily bottom lines in regard to profit and loss.
Long range plans for how the environment may be in the future seems to have mainly taken the back seat or dropped off somewhere as excess baggage.

Oh no, this is on a completely different level. Under the emergency powers the UK government can award contracts without the need for tenders and public scrutiny. All sorts of companies have put in bids and been awarded contracts for stuff they have no experience in. For example, a massive contract for PPE was awarded to a pest control company with only 16 employees. A contract for running a testing centre was awarded to an accounting firm with no background in medical matters. The list goes on. The pest control company bought a load of stuff on the open market and delivered it to the NHS, only for it all to be rejected as being of the wrong spec, below that required. They have responded to any media reports on this by threatening legal action against the publishers. There is a huge black hole that has sucked up money and stopped delivery of much needed supplies to the NHS. They would have been much better off just getting civil servants to do the procurement, but that is just not how the Tories roll.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

there is a hell of a lot more to science than just the environment.

Depending on which aspect of environment?

no. just science in general. not all of it is about making money.

:)

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Depending on which aspect of environment?

no. just science in general. not all of it is about making money.

:)

that is like the laugh emoticon on facebook. designed to ridicule.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

no. just science in general. not all of it is about making money.

:)

that is like the laugh emoticon on facebook. designed to ridicule.

That I don’t subscribe to facebook may mean little and that emoticon has been around since the beginning. Has fuck all to do with facebook. It is simply a smile.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

:)

that is like the laugh emoticon on facebook. designed to ridicule.

That I don’t subscribe to facebook may mean little and that emoticon has been around since the beginning. Has fuck all to do with facebook. It is simply a smile.

what about using words to form a cogent argument?

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

that is like the laugh emoticon on facebook. designed to ridicule.

That I don’t subscribe to facebook may mean little and that emoticon has been around since the beginning. Has fuck all to do with facebook. It is simply a smile.

what about using words to form a cogent argument?

I wasn’t arguing.

Why do I always have to argue?

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

That I don’t subscribe to facebook may mean little and that emoticon has been around since the beginning. Has fuck all to do with facebook. It is simply a smile.

what about using words to form a cogent argument?

I wasn’t arguing.

Why do I always have to argue?

noun: argument; plural noun: arguments

A reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

eg: “There is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal.”

Tau.Neutrino said:

Testing stations need to be more thought out if they have to turn people away for testing.

This seems to happen a lot.

Is there a where to deal with it better?

maybe limit it to one suburb, then limit it again within that suburb by streets in a quad pattern or some other pattern ?

work out the number of people living within an area, then plan forward with that.

or work out the numbers of people within a suburb and has each suburb varies work out each suburb beforehand to have enough tests for each suburb?

It comes under Civil Engineering, heath experts have to plan with it dealing with populations, so I wonder why it is a problem ?

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

what about using words to form a cogent argument?

I wasn’t arguing.

Why do I always have to argue?

noun: argument; plural noun: arguments

A reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

eg: “There is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal.”

this.

Biden- “What I would do is make sure I brought in all of the experts, to make sure what is best and most rational means of distribution. Now look there are two types of vaccines being work on now. One is an RNA model that are done by two of the operations, I think Moderna, I forget who has the other one. The other is an adenovirus which is a way to generate an immune system response, changes the cell structure. The one that deals with mRNA , that requires two injections, and it requires to be stored at 70 degrees below zero. In addition to all this there are mechanical issues, as to how and where. Assuming let’s say the Moderna one is picked, assuming that the vaccine is approved, it’s a very very significant difficult problem of how you distribute that vaccine. For example, you couldn’t… you have to ship it in bulk if it’s the mRNA version, and that means a thousand at a time kind of thing, that means it is going to go to hospitals and major medical distributio centers, it’s not going to go to your doctor.”

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4907275/user-clip-biden-vaccines-v2

Biden has some verbal hesitancy but it’s just comforting to hear a President talk about an issue like an adult. Just calmly stating the facts, not inventing rubbish to fill the gap left by cavernous ignorance, not bloviating and using hyperbole.

dv said:

Biden- “What I would do is make sure I brought in all of the experts, to make sure what is best and most rational means of distribution. Now look there are two types of vaccines being work on now. One is an RNA model that are done by two of the operations, I think Moderna, I forget who has the other one. The other is an adenovirus which is a way to generate an immune system response, changes the cell structure. The one that deals with mRNA , that requires two injections, and it requires to be stored at 70 degrees below zero. In addition to all this there are mechanical issues, as to how and where. Assuming let’s say the Moderna one is picked, assuming that the vaccine is approved, it’s a very very significant difficult problem of how you distribute that vaccine. For example, you couldn’t… you have to ship it in bulk if it’s the mRNA version, and that means a thousand at a time kind of thing, that means it is going to go to hospitals and major medical distributio centers, it’s not going to go to your doctor.”

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4907275/user-clip-biden-vaccines-v2

Biden has some verbal hesitancy but it’s just comforting to hear a President talk about an issue like an adult. Just calmly stating the facts, not inventing rubbish to fill the gap left by cavernous ignorance, not bloviating and using hyperbole.

I heard on the wireless that these are not really vaccines, they don’t stop you getting the virus, they just relieve the symptoms and will not provide herd immunity.
It was on the Beeb I think.

dv said:

Biden- “What I would do is make sure I brought in all of the experts, to make sure what is best and most rational means of distribution. Now look there are two types of vaccines being work on now. One is an RNA model that are done by two of the operations, I think Moderna, I forget who has the other one. The other is an adenovirus which is a way to generate an immune system response, changes the cell structure. The one that deals with mRNA , that requires two injections, and it requires to be stored at 70 degrees below zero. In addition to all this there are mechanical issues, as to how and where. Assuming let’s say the Moderna one is picked, assuming that the vaccine is approved, it’s a very very significant difficult problem of how you distribute that vaccine. For example, you couldn’t… you have to ship it in bulk if it’s the mRNA version, and that means a thousand at a time kind of thing, that means it is going to go to hospitals and major medical distributio centers, it’s not going to go to your doctor.”

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4907275/user-clip-biden-vaccines-v2

Biden has some verbal hesitancy but it’s just comforting to hear a President talk about an issue like an adult. Just calmly stating the facts, not inventing rubbish to fill the gap left by cavernous ignorance, not bloviating and using hyperbole.

^

HE even used real science terms.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Testing stations need to be more thought out if they have to turn people away for testing.

This seems to happen a lot.

Is there a where to deal with it better?

maybe limit it to one suburb, then limit it again within that suburb by streets in a quad pattern or some other pattern ?

work out the number of people living within an area, then plan forward with that.

or work out the numbers of people within a suburb and has each suburb varies work out each suburb beforehand to have enough tests for each suburb?

maybe they should just have decent planning ahead and surge capacity

roughbarked said:

dv said:

politicians are “suppressing science”

Science is only of value if it can make money now.

we object

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54886883

They Turk our jurbs

dv said:

That’s pretty disingenuous. The public facilities are really only located in the country area and there was a quite small number of cases of he rona recorded outside of Melbourne.

sibeen said:

dv said:

That’s pretty disingenuous. The public facilities are really only located in the country area and there was a quite small number of cases of he rona recorded outside of Melbourne.

so what’s the relative to locality rate

dv said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54886883

They Turk our jurbs

so dirty CHINA called everyone’s bluff again, they offered to make their immunisations free to the world knowing that everyone else would hate on them and prefer any other manufacturer at all, that is genius

Why Avert The Wisdom Of Hindsight When Instead We Could Laugh At And Blame Dan And Not Take A Look At Ourselves And Make The Necessary Changes

Following the outbreak, all staff at South Australian quarantine hotels will now get tested for COVID-19 every week.

“In my opinion, that should have been done as soon as it became clear how problematic those hotels were, and also what happened in Victoria,” Professor Baxter.

I haven’t read all of today’s posts. Did we note the security guard aspect for SA?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-17/more-cases-added-to-northern-adelaide-coronavirus-cluster/12891846

You’d have to be crazy to get in a conga line of symptomatic people waiting to get tested.
No you’re better off staying at home for a while until it passes or you do.

Peak Warming Man said:

You’d have to be crazy to get in a conga line of symptomatic people waiting to get tested.
No you’re better off staying at home for a while until it passes or you do.

drive-thru is the way to do it.

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

You’d have to be crazy to get in a conga line of symptomatic people waiting to get tested.
No you’re better off staying at home for a while until it passes or you do.

drive-thru is the way to do it.

Home testing kits might work for some.

SCIENCE said:

⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

Good News, In The USSA, SCIENCE No Longer Needs To Be Done The Old Fashioned Way

US drug manufacturer Moderna has released data that shows its experimental COVID-19 vaccine was 94.5 per cent effective, based on interim data from a late-stage trial.

Moderna’s interim analysis was based on 95 infections among trial participants who received either a placebo or the vaccine. Its findings were not published in a peer-reviewed journal paper. Of those, only five infections occurred in those who received the vaccine, which is administered in two shots, 28 days apart.

This makes the company the second US manufacturer to report results that far exceed expectations, following Pfizer’s announcement of promising vaccine test results last week.

The data from Moderna’s trial involving 30,000 volunteers also showed the vaccine prevented cases of severe COVID-19, a question that still remains with the Pfizer vaccine. Of the 95 cases in Moderna’s trial, 11 were severe and all 11 occurred among volunteers who got the placebo.

OK, I know this was waaay back around midday. But…you know the saying “if something seems too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true”…

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

You’d have to be crazy to get in a conga line of symptomatic people waiting to get tested.
No you’re better off staying at home for a while until it passes or you do.

drive-thru is the way to do it.

our colleagues did seem pretty satisfied with their drive through experience so seems valid

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

US drug manufacturer Moderna has released data that shows its experimental COVID-19 vaccine was 94.5 per cent effective, based on interim data from a late-stage trial. Its findings were not published in a peer-reviewed journal paper.

This makes the company the second US manufacturer to report results that far exceed expectations, following Pfizer’s announcement of promising vaccine test results last week.

Of the 95 cases in Moderna’s trial, 11 were severe and all 11 occurred among volunteers who got the placebo.

OK, I know this was waaay back around midday. But…you know the saying “if something seems too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true”…

Yes we’d be waiting for the peer review and further safety testing.

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

You’d have to be crazy to get in a conga line of symptomatic people waiting to get tested.
No you’re better off staying at home for a while until it passes or you do.

drive-thru is the way to do it.

Senior sprog went through the drive-through testing this morning.

Epidemiologist Does UnAustralian Thing And Voices Support For Authoritarian Communism

Also in article: NSW announces plan to copy UK third wave fuelling by throwing money at people to encourage social proximity.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-11-17/melbourne-uk-coronavirus-restaurants-cafes-pub-dining-covid/12886496

Professor McLaws points to China as a prime example of a country that’s handled the pandemic well. Despite the coronavirus originating there, it has avoided a second wave, largely due to ring-fencing and “an extraordinary amount” of testing.

“When they did ring fencing, they lifted that ring fencing incrementally,” she says.

“And if there were any infections found, they not only did a test within the context of those people, but also streets and buildings and what we would call their postcode.”

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

AUSTRALIANS FORBIDDEN TO ACCESS THIS MEDICAL TREATMENT

The Association of American Physicians & Surgeons have produced a Covid treatment guide called a ‘Step-by-Step Doctors’ Plan That Could Save Your Life’.

The Senior Editor is Dr. Jane Orient, MD, Internal Medicine Physician, Executive Director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, and President of Doctors for Disaster Preparedness.

The Consulting Editor is Professor Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, FACP, FACC, FCCP, FAHA, FNKF, FNLA, FCRSA Internist, Cardiologist, and Epidemiologist, and President of the Cardiorenal Society of America.
Interestingly Professor Peter A. McCullough recently contracted Covid, and used this treatment to cure himself.
However, Health Bureaucrats in Australia know so much better, that they have banned Australian doctors from prescribing this treatment.

And in Queensland, Dr Janette Young has made it a criminal offence, whereby Professor Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, FACP, FACC, FCCP, FAHA, FNKF, FNLA, FCRSA would be facing 6 months in jail.

You’d be proud to know this f’n peanut, wouldn’t you?

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

WE NEED TO URGENTLY WAKE-UP, AND UNDERSTAND HOW MAD & DANGEROUS THESE CLIMATE ALARMISTS REALLY ARE

In 1979 the Communist Party of China introduced a ‘One-Child Policy’ in aa attempt to control China’s population growth – a policy that subsequently ended in 2015.

To enforce this policy, the communists used propaganda and harsh punishments – requiring the use of contraception, abortion, and sterilization to ensure compliance, and imposed enormous fines for violations.

Large propaganda billboards were installed throughout the nation to reinforce the message.

However in 2020, Climate Alarmists are now copying the Chinese Communists, and have started installing large billboards promoting the same ‘one-child’ message.

While it may be argued that Chinese Communist’s Policy was adopted to halt population growth, there is no such argument in western countries today, as most countries have such a low fertility rate which will result in their populations decreasing to such an extent that mass migration from developing nations is required just to maintain stable population.

Climate Alarmists peddling a ‘’one-child Policy’’ in Western Nations are merely promoting the suicide of our societies. And they are doing so with lies and misinformation.

We need to wake-up quickly to realise how mad and dangerous these Climate Alarmists truely are.

Rule 303 said:

You’d be proud to know this f’n peanut, wouldn’t you?

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

Who?

No no, don’t tell me.

Rule 303 said:

You’d be proud to know this f’n peanut, wouldn’t you?

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

WE NEED TO URGENTLY WAKE-UP, AND UNDERSTAND HOW MAD & DANGEROUS THESE CLIMATE ALARMISTS REALLY ARE

In 1979 the Communist Party of China introduced a ‘One-Child Policy’ in aa attempt to control China’s population growth – a policy that subsequently ended in 2015.

To enforce this policy, the communists used propaganda and harsh punishments – requiring the use of contraception, abortion, and sterilization to ensure compliance, and imposed enormous fines for violations.

Large propaganda billboards were installed throughout the nation to reinforce the message.

However in 2020, Climate Alarmists are now copying the Chinese Communists, and have started installing large billboards promoting the same ‘one-child’ message.

While it may be argued that Chinese Communist’s Policy was adopted to halt population growth, there is no such argument in western countries today, as most countries have such a low fertility rate which will result in their populations decreasing to such an extent that mass migration from developing nations is required just to maintain stable population.

Climate Alarmists peddling a ‘’one-child Policy’’ in Western Nations are merely promoting the suicide of our societies. And they are doing so with lies and misinformation.

We need to wake-up quickly to realise how mad and dangerous these Climate Alarmists truely are.

Interesting that Canada is being targeted, could if be that their huge Tar Sands deposits make them the third large oil producer in the world and are being challenged over its environmental problems. The Carbon Club members are at work here.

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

You’d be proud to know this f’n peanut, wouldn’t you?

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

Who?

No no, don’t tell me.

Current member of the federal Liberal/National coalition government.

Craig Kelly (Yesterday, 16/11/20)

AND YET ANOTHER NEW PEER-REVIEWED STUDY FINDS HYDROXCHLOROQUINE AN EFFECTIVE TREAMENT FOR COVID

With studies coming in from across the world over the past week, thislatest peer-reviewed study comes from Bulgaria – with the lead author Professor Iana Simova, from the University Hospital, Pleven, Bulgaria.

PermeateFree said:

Rule 303 said:

You’d be proud to know this f’n peanut, wouldn’t you?

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

WE NEED TO URGENTLY WAKE-UP, AND UNDERSTAND HOW MAD & DANGEROUS THESE CLIMATE ALARMISTS REALLY ARE

In 1979 the Communist Party of China introduced a ‘One-Child Policy’ in aa attempt to control China’s population growth – a policy that subsequently ended in 2015.

To enforce this policy, the communists used propaganda and harsh punishments – requiring the use of contraception, abortion, and sterilization to ensure compliance, and imposed enormous fines for violations.

Large propaganda billboards were installed throughout the nation to reinforce the message.

However in 2020, Climate Alarmists are now copying the Chinese Communists, and have started installing large billboards promoting the same ‘one-child’ message.

While it may be argued that Chinese Communist’s Policy was adopted to halt population growth, there is no such argument in western countries today, as most countries have such a low fertility rate which will result in their populations decreasing to such an extent that mass migration from developing nations is required just to maintain stable population.

Climate Alarmists peddling a ‘’one-child Policy’’ in Western Nations are merely promoting the suicide of our societies. And they are doing so with lies and misinformation.

We need to wake-up quickly to realise how mad and dangerous these Climate Alarmists truely are.

Interesting that Canada is being targeted, could if be that their huge Tar Sands deposits make them the third large oil producer in the world and are being challenged over its environmental problems. The Carbon Club members are at work here.

Tar sands oil — even the name sounds bad. And it is bad. In fact, oil from tar sands is one of the most destructive, carbon-intensive and toxic fuels on the planet. Producing it releases three times as much greenhouse gas pollution as conventional crude oil does.

https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/no_tar_sands/index.html

Rule 303 said:

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

You’d be proud to know this f’n peanut, wouldn’t you?

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

Who?

No no, don’t tell me.

Current member of the federal Liberal/National coalition government.

Craig Kelly (Yesterday, 16/11/20)

AND YET ANOTHER NEW PEER-REVIEWED STUDY FINDS HYDROXCHLOROQUINE AN EFFECTIVE TREAMENT FOR COVID

With studies coming in from across the world over the past week, thislatest peer-reviewed study comes from Bulgaria – with the lead author Professor Iana Simova, from the University Hospital, Pleven, Bulgaria.

Thanks but no thanks. I do try to avoid learning more about people who put me off the first time I hear from them.

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

roughbarked said:

Who?

No no, don’t tell me.

Current member of the federal Liberal/National coalition government.

Craig Kelly (Yesterday, 16/11/20)

AND YET ANOTHER NEW PEER-REVIEWED STUDY FINDS HYDROXCHLOROQUINE AN EFFECTIVE TREAMENT FOR COVID

With studies coming in from across the world over the past week, thislatest peer-reviewed study comes from Bulgaria – with the lead author Professor Iana Simova, from the University Hospital, Pleven, Bulgaria.

Thanks but no thanks. I do try to avoid learning more about people who put me off the first time I hear from them.

shrug

they were elected by Australians

and we watch in awe and horror when 48% of DPRNAoles support tRepublicump

shrug

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

Current member of the federal Liberal/National coalition government.

Craig Kelly (Yesterday, 16/11/20)

AND YET ANOTHER NEW PEER-REVIEWED STUDY FINDS HYDROXCHLOROQUINE AN EFFECTIVE TREAMENT FOR COVID

With studies coming in from across the world over the past week, thislatest peer-reviewed study comes from Bulgaria – with the lead author Professor Iana Simova, from the University Hospital, Pleven, Bulgaria.

Thanks but no thanks. I do try to avoid learning more about people who put me off the first time I hear from them.

shrug

they were elected by Australians

and we watch in awe and horror when 48% of DPRNAoles support tRepublicump

shrug

I can assure you that such people do affect the way my vote swings.

Rule 303 said:

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

You’d be proud to know this f’n peanut, wouldn’t you?

Craig Kelly, Liberal member for Hughes.

Who?

No no, don’t tell me.

Current member of the federal Liberal/National coalition government.

Craig Kelly (Yesterday, 16/11/20)

AND YET ANOTHER NEW PEER-REVIEWED STUDY FINDS HYDROXCHLOROQUINE AN EFFECTIVE TREAMENT FOR COVID

With studies coming in from across the world over the past week, thislatest peer-reviewed study comes from Bulgaria – with the lead author Professor Iana Simova, from the University Hospital, Pleven, Bulgaria.

FFS.

It’s a letter to the editor, not a peer-reviewed study.

Since we’re talking about questionable logics and that…

⚠ we decided to state the obvious here, perhaps too obvious

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/south-australian-hotel-guests-moved-as-covid-19-cluster-grows-to-20-cases-20201117-p56f6i.html

Adelaide resident Luke Newcombe returned from Britain two weeks ago and was due for release from the Peppers hotel early on Tuesday, but now faces up to 14 days in another hotel.

“It’s pretty horrid at the moment,” he said. “No one knows where they’re going.”

“Why am I being punished for the lack of organisation on their behalf?” he said. “I’m happy to put up my hand and do another test.”

Hint: doing your bit as part of an infection control strategy is punishment? If someone caught gastroenteritis, is it “punishment”? Maybe it’s God’s Punishment!

He was also baffled as to how two security guards and a cleaner contracted the virus in the first place. “You’re locked in your room, you’re brought meals three times a day. They knock on your door, you wait a few seconds. You can’t open your door while they’re there … It just seems a little bit off to me,” he said.

Hint: have doctors been banging on about aerosol and airborne transmission for … 10, even 11 months? Wow!

Margaret Crowe is another traveller who was due for release on Tuesday after returning to South Australia from Italy where she lived for 25 years. “It’s just an unfortunate human error … I can’t fault the hotel or say it was shabby or dirty,” Ms Crowe said.

Hint: is a highly infectious disease, going on to infect workers on 1 day in 200 when they have presumably followed infection control measures that reduce infection rates to 1 in 200, “human error”?

“It’s a great demonstration of how a pandemic moves. You get one person, then all of a sudden you’ve got this big cluster.”

Thank you.

The thing about obvious is that it is in your face.

can we save that face

SCIENCE said:

can we save that face

Virii are not selective enough to remove the faces that should go for the sake of the remainder.

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

can we save that face

Virii are not selective enough to remove the faces that should go for the sake of the remainder.

Trump being the greatest ever example of the above.

After Predictions Of Lockdown-Induced Mental Health Disaster Fail To Eventuate, Rupert Nostradamus Projects Noticeable Changes For 8 Months From Now

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-17/covid-related-mental-illness-wont-peak-until-mid-next-year/12891862

The statistics show 580 Victorians have died already by suicide this year. That’s on par with last year’s figures, meaning there’s not yet been a COVID-related increase in suicide

⚠ post may contain satirical elements but more serious comment follows

To their credit (or more correctly, lack of ethical deficit), however, the article stops short of blaming the predicted mental health problems on SCIENCE-driven best practice infection control measures. (Nor does it provide the relevant balance in acknowledging that a highly infective and virulent disease in itself will cause significant mental health problems in the absence of infection control.)

Emergency presentations are up, helplines are running hot and incidents of self harm are increasing, but Professor Hickie, a former Mental Health Commissioner, says it’s worse in Victoria.

Also mentioned is “Victorian State Coroner is ‘astounded’ by the ‘significant number’ of suicide deaths each year” — as in including years before this pandemic year, as in this is a significant problem but that information is not really related to the current pandemic.

How bad is Russia’s Covid crisis? Packed morgues and excess deaths tell a darker story than official numbers suggest

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/17/europe/russia-coronavirus-pandemic-excess-deaths-intl/index.html

A returned diplomat in quarantine becomes the ACT’s latest case of COVID-19, after entering the country on Sunday and travelling to Canberra by private vehicle.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/murdoch-research-children-and-covid-19-immunity/12890670

From that piece:

>>“Basically, they summed it up by saying that probably what’s happening with the kids is they get the virus but their antibodies are so efficient at fighting it that the virus was obliterated before it turned into COVID and before you can shed COVID,” she said.<<

>>Even though the children have had COVID-19, doctors cannot say how long they will be immune from possible re-infection.<<

Seems to me if they have an efficient immune response like that re-infection will be dealt with by the body the same way as the first time.

Also, I want to stretch that a bit further. I wonder if the sniffles that symptomatic kids get routinely over Winter cold and flu season are actually from the rhino viruses and influenza. Perhaps in general kids bodies deal with coronaviruses better. We can’t know this, because we’ve never really tested colds for which virus is involved before.

Given the number of COVID19 tests done this year, lots of people still got sniffs and sneezes and sore throats because testing has generally only been for symptomatic people. So the usual colds were about. (With due allowance made for the worried well who may have invented symptoms to get tested for their own peace of mind)

buffy said:

we’ve never really tested colds for which virus is involved before

disagree, it’s been established for ages that influenza causes what people think are common colds

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/global-covid-19-infection-rates-much-higher-research-coronavirus/12894424

“In Australia, our modelling shows the actual rate of infected and recovered people at the end of August may have been five times higher than reported, with 0.48 per cent of the population, or up to 130,000 people, possibly infected,” Professor Grafton said in a press release.

“That’s much higher than the confirmed proportion of 0.10 per cent of the population.

And 17 times higher in Italy…

Michael V said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/global-covid-19-infection-rates-much-higher-research-coronavirus/12894424

“In Australia, our modelling shows the actual rate of infected and recovered people at the end of August may have been five times higher than reported, with 0.48 per cent of the population, or up to 130,000 people, possibly infected,” Professor Grafton said in a press release.

“That’s much higher than the confirmed proportion of 0.10 per cent of the population.

And 17 times higher in Italy…

If no isolation occurred at all I wonder if it would have spread to most of the population of the planet

Cymek said:

Michael V said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/global-covid-19-infection-rates-much-higher-research-coronavirus/12894424

“In Australia, our modelling shows the actual rate of infected and recovered people at the end of August may have been five times higher than reported, with 0.48 per cent of the population, or up to 130,000 people, possibly infected,” Professor Grafton said in a press release.

“That’s much higher than the confirmed proportion of 0.10 per cent of the population.

And 17 times higher in Italy…

If no isolation occurred at all I wonder if it would have spread to most of the population of the planet

Eventually, yes.

Michael V said:

Cymek said:

Michael V said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/global-covid-19-infection-rates-much-higher-research-coronavirus/12894424

“In Australia, our modelling shows the actual rate of infected and recovered people at the end of August may have been five times higher than reported, with 0.48 per cent of the population, or up to 130,000 people, possibly infected,” Professor Grafton said in a press release.

“That’s much higher than the confirmed proportion of 0.10 per cent of the population.

And 17 times higher in Italy…

If no isolation occurred at all I wonder if it would have spread to most of the population of the planet

Eventually, yes.

should have gone for flock immunity like all them geniuses said all along

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

Cymek said:

If no isolation occurred at all I wonder if it would have spread to most of the population of the planet

Eventually, yes.

should have gone for flock immunity like all them geniuses said all along

I was just thinking the deaths and infection rate is a result of a somewhat half arsed effort in some places and decent effort in others, imagine if no one did anything.
Could be looking at more deaths than WW2

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

Eventually, yes.

should have gone for flock immunity like all them geniuses said all along

I was just thinking the deaths and infection rate is a result of a somewhat half arsed effort in some places and decent effort in others, imagine if no one did anything.
Could be looking at more deaths than WW2

agree

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

Cymek said:

If no isolation occurred at all I wonder if it would have spread to most of the population of the planet

Eventually, yes.

should have gone for flock immunity like all them geniuses said all along

Nup.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/coronavirus-vaccine-safety-equity-effectiveness-compromise/12894360

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/south-australia-coronavirus-outbreak-hotspot-locations/12889210

That’s a very broad timescale of 10 days for the pizza place at the top of the list. And it’s anyone who went there and people they live with. And it includes delivery pizza.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/south-australia-coronavirus-outbreak-hotspot-locations/12889210

That’s a very broad timescale of 10 days for the pizza place at the top of the list. And it’s anyone who went there and people they live with. And it includes delivery pizza.

The lady who worked as the med worker, also was a waitress at the pixxa bar.

Mrs Cymek is starting work at Perth airport this week as a Covid tester now the borders are open.
One of her friends said she doesn’t want to see her whilst she is doing this sort of work.

Cymek said:

Mrs Cymek is starting work at Perth airport this week as a Covid tester now the borders are open.
One of her friends said she doesn’t want to see her whilst she is doing this sort of work.

Fair enough.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/south-australia-coronavirus-outbreak-hotspot-locations/12889210

That’s a very broad timescale of 10 days for the pizza place at the top of the list. And it’s anyone who went there and people they live with. And it includes delivery pizza.

The lady who worked as the med worker, also was a waitress at the pixxa bar.

Doesn’t explain why take away and delivered pizza customers could also be affected.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/south-australia-coronavirus-outbreak-hotspot-locations/12889210

That’s a very broad timescale of 10 days for the pizza place at the top of the list. And it’s anyone who went there and people they live with. And it includes delivery pizza.

The lady who worked as the med worker, also was a waitress at the pixxa bar.

Doesn’t explain why take away and delivered pizza customers could also be affected.

No. but precautions are probably best taken.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/south-australia-coronavirus-outbreak-hotspot-locations/12889210

That’s a very broad timescale of 10 days for the pizza place at the top of the list. And it’s anyone who went there and people they live with. And it includes delivery pizza.

The lady who worked as the med worker, also was a waitress at the pixxa bar.

Doesn’t explain why take away and delivered pizza customers could also be affected.

Puts up hand, I know what to say here mam, you say “something something abundance of caution”

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

The lady who worked as the med worker, also was a waitress at the pixxa bar.

Doesn’t explain why take away and delivered pizza customers could also be affected.

No. but precautions are probably best taken.

It seems a bit broad to me to say that if a household had a pizza delivered in that time period they all now need to isolate for two weeks.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Doesn’t explain why take away and delivered pizza customers could also be affected.

No. but precautions are probably best taken.

It seems a bit broad to me to say that if a household had a pizza delivered in that time period they all now need to isolate for two weeks.

The virus could have been on the box and it only takes one person in the household to get infected.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

No. but precautions are probably best taken.

It seems a bit broad to me to say that if a household had a pizza delivered in that time period they all now need to isolate for two weeks.

The virus could have been on the box and it only takes one person in the household to get infected.

I really think that is stretching credibility, even for a highly contagious bug.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

It seems a bit broad to me to say that if a household had a pizza delivered in that time period they all now need to isolate for two weeks.

The virus could have been on the box and it only takes one person in the household to get infected.

I really think that is stretching credibility, even for a highly contagious bug.

I do too.
There are a group of plumbers in the village this week from Adelaide who were sitting in the park listening to the regulations just now. They said looks like we are stuck here for two weeks.

yeah that’s right the whole state restrictions in Victoria were too much, Dan went too far

SCIENCE said:

yeah that’s right the whole state restrictions in Victoria were too much, Dan went too far

It’s resulted in anti-Covids.

Cymek said:

Mrs Cymek is starting work at Perth airport this week as a Covid tester now the borders are open.
One of her friends said she doesn’t want to see her whilst she is doing this sort of work.

Understandable.

Michael V said:

Cymek said:

Mrs Cymek is starting work at Perth airport this week as a Covid tester now the borders are open.
One of her friends said she doesn’t want to see her whilst she is doing this sort of work.

Understandable.

Apparently the airport is treating it as zombie outbreak with flamethrower units and midi guns deployed if someone does a runner.

SA: Lockdown!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-coronavirus-lockdown-explained/12895856

Michael V said:

SA: Lockdown!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-coronavirus-lockdown-explained/12895856

what does this mean for states that are insisting on holding their borders with SA open, should they blame SA for preventing access

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

SA: Lockdown!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-coronavirus-lockdown-explained/12895856

what does this mean for states that are insisting on holding their borders with SA open, should they blame SA for preventing access

sorry we forgot to also add, that we commend their relatively rapid and decisive intervention to save lives and preserve health infringe on the human rights of their residents

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

SA: Lockdown!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-coronavirus-lockdown-explained/12895856

what does this mean for states that are insisting on holding their borders with SA open, should they blame SA for preventing access

Gosh, Melbourne level for the whole state of SA.

Michael V said:

SA: Lockdown!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-coronavirus-lockdown-explained/12895856

The extreme restrictions will last for six days and will be followed by a further eight days of reduced restrictions.

—

See at this stage of play it seems believable that an early disruption can last for a much shorter duration. If you can be confident that there is no widespread seeding and hidden community transmission (LUST), then waiting out just one incubation period may be all that you need. Some of you may argue that said incubation period could be anywhere from 2 to 14 days (!). Sure but there is this thing called SCIENCE and there are statistics. If you find no further cases in the next 7 days, given that about 80% of incubations are that long, you can be 80% sure that you’re done. They say by day 12 that’s 95% or so. If you find further cases, then you’ve got tracing made much easier as well so it’s still possible to ease relatively* safely!

* this is discretionary

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

SA: Lockdown!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-coronavirus-lockdown-explained/12895856

The extreme restrictions will last for six days and will be followed by a further eight days of reduced restrictions.

—

See at this stage of play it seems believable that an early disruption can last for a much shorter duration. If you can be confident that there is no widespread seeding and hidden community transmission (LUST), then waiting out just one incubation period may be all that you need. Some of you may argue that said incubation period could be anywhere from 2 to 14 days (!). Sure but there is this thing called SCIENCE and there are statistics. If you find no further cases in the next 7 days, given that about 80% of incubations are that long, you can be 80% sure that you’re done. They say by day 12 that’s 95% or so. If you find further cases, then you’ve got tracing made much easier as well so it’s still possible to ease relatively* safely!

* this is discretionary

I guess as time goes on, we learn more and can apply those learned experiences.

Provided you are not running the USA, where the person in charge is seemingly incapable of rational thought and learning.

well that was fun to watch

also clip has JA giving the undermining crowd a much needed 🖕

This is interesting:

>>Chief Public Health Officer Professor Nicola Spurrier said the particular strain of the virus in South Australia was breeding “very, very rapidly” with a short incubation period of about 24 hours, and with infected people showing only minimal symptoms.<<

From: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-ordered-into-major-lockdowns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/12894666

And, oh dear (from the same piece)

>>Commissioner Stevens said more than 100 police officers were currently in self-quarantine.

“We had 99 police officers from the cluster associated with Peppers, and as a result of activity at the Lyell McEwin Hospital there were a further 18 police officers who were required to quarantine,” he said.<<

buffy said:

This is interesting:

>>Chief Public Health Officer Professor Nicola Spurrier said the particular strain of the virus in South Australia was breeding “very, very rapidly” with a short incubation period of about 24 hours, and with infected people showing only minimal symptoms.<<

well maybe they’re just screening so hard that they’re catching these early before people would normally report symptoms

No Dodgy Stuff Here

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/business/china-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html

so if they’re all rushing to immunise, is it because of dodgy marketing, or is it because CHINA are hiding their uncontrolled spread of cases again and population of drones is scared

buffy said:

This is interesting:

>>Chief Public Health Officer Professor Nicola Spurrier said the particular strain of the virus in South Australia was breeding “very, very rapidly” with a short incubation period of about 24 hours, and with infected people showing only minimal symptoms.<<

From: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-ordered-into-major-lockdowns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/12894666

And, oh dear (from the same piece)

>>Commissioner Stevens said more than 100 police officers were currently in self-quarantine.

“We had 99 police officers from the cluster associated with Peppers, and as a result of activity at the Lyell McEwin Hospital there were a further 18 police officers who were required to quarantine,” he said.<<

Lucky it wasn’t at a doughnut shop

SCIENCE said:

No Dodgy Stuff Here

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/business/china-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html

so if they’re all rushing to immunise, is it because of dodgy marketing, or is it because CHINA are hiding their uncontrolled spread of cases again and population of drones is scared

Nothing on their infections anymore

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

No Dodgy Stuff Here

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/business/china-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html

so if they’re all rushing to immunise, is it because of dodgy marketing, or is it because CHINA are hiding their uncontrolled spread of cases again and population of drones is scared

Nothing on their infections anymore

well look we’ll accept if you can reliably justify it as a bunch of alarmist citizens overreacting

we mean, they claim to have like 8 cases a day, all imported

why you’d rush off to have an unproven immunisation when your risk of catching local transmission is basically 0

Cymek said:

buffy said:

This is interesting:

>>Chief Public Health Officer Professor Nicola Spurrier said the particular strain of the virus in South Australia was breeding “very, very rapidly” with a short incubation period of about 24 hours, and with infected people showing only minimal symptoms.<<

From: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/sa-ordered-into-major-lockdowns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/12894666

And, oh dear (from the same piece)

>>Commissioner Stevens said more than 100 police officers were currently in self-quarantine.

“We had 99 police officers from the cluster associated with Peppers, and as a result of activity at the Lyell McEwin Hospital there were a further 18 police officers who were required to quarantine,” he said.<<

Lucky it wasn’t at a doughnut shop

you mean Victoria

for certain values of “hilarious” yes

Interesting to read between the lines on Big Bad West Taiwan and where their cases are (claimed) to come from.

⚠ minimal satire intended

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-coronavirus-updates-latest-developments-business-advisory-part-2/

example

Anhui province reported one domestically transmitted COVID-19 case on November 10. The confirmed case is a 50-year old man who was found to be a close contact of the confirmed case reported in Shanghai on November 9. He worked as a porter at the Pudong International Airport and returned to Fuyang, Anhui province on November 5. A total of 34 people in close contact with the patient have been established, 17 of whom have been sampled for nucleic acid test. Four residential communities where the patient and his close contact live have been disinfected.

Apparently they have regular port and quarantine leaks* so they must have it all set up a certain way to suppress the consequent outbreaks the media attention.

*: a simple term we have to refer to it, with no specific implication of error or failing, simply highly infectious disease that will go on and infect people

Obviously the communities aren’t organised the same way either but perhaps we can be glad we aren’t referred to as “been sampled” or “residential communities … disinfected”. Could be worse, we suppose, there could be talk of reeducation or purges or exorcisms.

Murdoch Children’s Research Institute studies family with coronavirus to find out why their children were immune

Victorian couple Leila Sawenko and Tony Maguire were shocked when they contracted COVID-19 after travelling interstate for their friends’ wedding in March this year.

“It wasn’t until a week later after we had returned from Sydney that we did start to feel hangover meets jetlag — very foggy headed and a little bit more lethargic than normal,” Ms Sawenko said.

Back home, they felt sure they would pass on the virus to their three young children, aged six, seven and nine.
Remarkably, the test results came back negative for all the children.

“It was jaw-droppingly amazing because they’d spent a week and a half with us while we were COVID-positive,” Ms Sawenko said.

“The boys had a runny nose and my youngest daughter, who had been really close to us since we returned from Sydney — sleeping in the bed with us, constant cuddles — was completely asymptomatic.

MCRI’s Melanie Neeland found the three Melbourne children had COVID-19 antibodies which were very similar to their parents.

That meant although the children had been infected with coronavirus, they were able to mount an immune response which was “highly effective” in stopping the virus from replicating.

“Basically, they summed it up by saying that probably what’s happening with the kids is they get the virus but their antibodies are so efficient at fighting it that the virus was obliterated before it turned into COVID and before you can shed COVID,” she said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/murdoch-research-children-and-covid-19-immunity/12890670?

PermeateFree said:

Murdoch Children’s Research Institute studies family with coronavirus to find out why their children were immune

Victorian couple Leila Sawenko and Tony Maguire were shocked when they contracted COVID-19 after travelling interstate for their friends’ wedding in March this year.

“It wasn’t until a week later after we had returned from Sydney that we did start to feel hangover meets jetlag — very foggy headed and a little bit more lethargic than normal,” Ms Sawenko said.

Back home, they felt sure they would pass on the virus to their three young children, aged six, seven and nine.
Remarkably, the test results came back negative for all the children.

“It was jaw-droppingly amazing because they’d spent a week and a half with us while we were COVID-positive,” Ms Sawenko said.

“The boys had a runny nose and my youngest daughter, who had been really close to us since we returned from Sydney — sleeping in the bed with us, constant cuddles — was completely asymptomatic.

MCRI’s Melanie Neeland found the three Melbourne children had COVID-19 antibodies which were very similar to their parents.

That meant although the children had been infected with coronavirus, they were able to mount an immune response which was “highly effective” in stopping the virus from replicating.

“Basically, they summed it up by saying that probably what’s happening with the kids is they get the virus but their antibodies are so efficient at fighting it that the virus was obliterated before it turned into COVID and before you can shed COVID,” she said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/murdoch-research-children-and-covid-19-immunity/12890670?

I saw that this morning. Of course, we don’t actually know how children’s immune systems deal with the usual coronavirus type colds because we don’t usually do swabs for kids colds every year. Perhaps children don’t do coronavirus symptoms anyway.

How Dare These Shills Say Good Things About Infection Control Ideas Anti-Business Action

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/sa-toughest-coronavirus-lockdown-comes-into-place/12897542

Good to move early

University of NSW Professor of Global Biosecurity Raina MacIntyre said the lockdown was a good move to catch the spread early, although she said the State Government could have been tougher on making face masks mandatory.

“Earlier lockdown is always better,” she said.

“In a way they are benefitting for lessons learnt in Victoria, where they waited to lockdown to spare people the pain of lockdown, but as time went on, it became far more obvious that it was widespread and they had waited to late.

“So it seems that they have bitten the bullet and decided to bring it in.”

Business SA hoped it would lessen the long-term impact for the organisation’s members.

Chief executive Martin Haese said he received more than 350 calls yesterday from concerned employers.

Mr Haese said the measures were vital to make sure people returned to work as soon as possible.

“If the numbers absolutely dissipate in the coming days, we can’t see any reason we can’t be back at work next Wednesday, so the employer community will accept this,” he said.

“It’s tough medicine, but it’s important that we do it.”

Shane Ettridge, who owns a wine bar in Adelaide’s CBD, said it was a surprise.

“We’ve got perishables that need to be thrown away and staff to be contacted and bookings that we’ve got to speak with, so it was a shock,” he said.

“But, to be perfectly honest, I think it’s the right move.

SCIENCE said:

How Dare These Shills Say Good Things About Infection Control Ideas Anti-Business Action

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/sa-toughest-coronavirus-lockdown-comes-into-place/12897542

Good to move early

University of NSW Professor of Global Biosecurity Raina MacIntyre said the lockdown was a good move to catch the spread early, although she said the State Government could have been tougher on making face masks mandatory.

“Earlier lockdown is always better,” she said.

“In a way they are benefitting for lessons learnt in Victoria, where they waited to lockdown to spare people the pain of lockdown, but as time went on, it became far more obvious that it was widespread and they had waited to late.

“So it seems that they have bitten the bullet and decided to bring it in.”

Business SA hoped it would lessen the long-term impact for the organisation’s members.

Chief executive Martin Haese said he received more than 350 calls yesterday from concerned employers.

Mr Haese said the measures were vital to make sure people returned to work as soon as possible.

“If the numbers absolutely dissipate in the coming days, we can’t see any reason we can’t be back at work next Wednesday, so the employer community will accept this,” he said.

“It’s tough medicine, but it’s important that we do it.”

Shane Ettridge, who owns a wine bar in Adelaide’s CBD, said it was a surprise.

“We’ve got perishables that need to be thrown away and staff to be contacted and bookings that we’ve got to speak with, so it was a shock,” he said.

“But, to be perfectly honest, I think it’s the right move.

In what way is it anti-business?

Peter Malinauskas ·
I understand that people around South Australia are right now concerned about what is happening in our state, and wondering how we got into this position.

But South Australians should be under no misapprehension that, here in our home, we’re going to take on this challenge the South Australian way.

As other parts of the country have gone through trying times with COVID – now it’s our turn.

Doing this the South Australian way means we’re going to look after each other as much as we look after ourselves.
We’re going to fight for each other, not against each other.

Which means, as far as I’m concerned, unlike in Victoria, as Opposition Leader I’m here to support the government, not undermine it.

That starts with having complete faith in our public health officials.

We’re going to back in their judgement, and never doubt their motives.
We’re going to comply with their requests, not because it’s easy, but because it’s right.
We’re going to remain calm, steadfast and resolute in tackling this challenge in a way that only South Australians can.
This is going to be a tough period – none of us have confronted anything like this before.

But all of us in South Australia have an obligation to show the nation that we can tackle this challenge with grit and kindness in the same measure.

To everybody in our key public agencies working so hard to keep us safe, we’ve got your back.
To the thousands of workers, who now find themselves suddenly and unexpectedly without an income, you won’t be forgotten.

To those who are isolated, without access to family and friends, you’re only a phone call away.
To all the small businesses, worried about what tomorrow brings, a brighter day will come.
For those people who are going to be working in non-government essential services, you are our quiet heroes.
Particularly in our supermarkets and their distribution centres, I know tonight you are under extraordinary pressure, but now everybody will know what I always have – your work is more than dignified, it is essential.

My message to every South Australian tonight, as the eyes of the nation are now on us, let’s show them just how resilient we are.

Apparently COVID-19 Actually Is Good For Mental Health And The Baby Boom Really Is Not Yet Happening

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/mount-isa-pandemic-pregnancies-make-for-busy-end-of-year/12887730

Midwives have been surprised by the positive effects COVID-19 restrictions have had on birthing and postnatal women.

Clinical midwife Julie Hurst said postnatal women also reported a better experience when they returned home from hospital.

Ms Hurst said new parents were able to appreciate not having visitors to meet their newborns during pandemic restrictions.

“They stayed in their pyjamas all day, kids were at home and they didn’t have to worry if the house was in a mess,” she said.

“They had more one-on-one time, were more relaxed and breastfeeding went well because of it.”

SCIENCE said:

Apparently COVID-19 Actually Is Good For Mental Health And The Baby Boom Really Is Not Yet Happening

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/mount-isa-pandemic-pregnancies-make-for-busy-end-of-year/12887730

Midwives have been surprised by the positive effects COVID-19 restrictions have had on birthing and postnatal women.

Clinical midwife Julie Hurst said postnatal women also reported a better experience when they returned home from hospital.

Ms Hurst said new parents were able to appreciate not having visitors to meet their newborns during pandemic restrictions.

“They stayed in their pyjamas all day, kids were at home and they didn’t have to worry if the house was in a mess,” she said.

“They had more one-on-one time, were more relaxed and breastfeeding went well because of it.”

Makes sense.

ChrispenEvan said:

Peter Malinauskas ·
I understand that people around South Australia are right now concerned about what is happening in our state, and wondering how we got into this position.

But South Australians should be under no misapprehension that, here in our home, we’re going to take on this challenge the South Australian way.

As other parts of the country have gone through trying times with COVID – now it’s our turn.

Doing this the South Australian way means we’re going to look after each other as much as we look after ourselves.
We’re going to fight for each other, not against each other.

Which means, as far as I’m concerned, unlike in Victoria, as Opposition Leader I’m here to support the government, not undermine it.

That starts with having complete faith in our public health officials.

We’re going to back in their judgement, and never doubt their motives.
We’re going to comply with their requests, not because it’s easy, but because it’s right.
We’re going to remain calm, steadfast and resolute in tackling this challenge in a way that only South Australians can.
This is going to be a tough period – none of us have confronted anything like this before.

But all of us in South Australia have an obligation to show the nation that we can tackle this challenge with grit and kindness in the same measure.

To everybody in our key public agencies working so hard to keep us safe, we’ve got your back.
To the thousands of workers, who now find themselves suddenly and unexpectedly without an income, you won’t be forgotten.

To those who are isolated, without access to family and friends, you’re only a phone call away.
To all the small businesses, worried about what tomorrow brings, a brighter day will come.
For those people who are going to be working in non-government essential services, you are our quiet heroes.
Particularly in our supermarkets and their distribution centres, I know tonight you are under extraordinary pressure, but now everybody will know what I always have – your work is more than dignified, it is essential.

My message to every South Australian tonight, as the eyes of the nation are now on us, let’s show them just how resilient we are.

are you implying that our Labor oppositions are playing ball better and fairer than their Liberal counterparts

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

How Dare These Shills Say Good Things About Infection Control Ideas Anti-Business Action

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/sa-toughest-coronavirus-lockdown-comes-into-place/12897542

Good to move early

University of NSW Professor of Global Biosecurity Raina MacIntyre said the lockdown was a good move to catch the spread early, although she said the State Government could have been tougher on making face masks mandatory.

“Earlier lockdown is always better,” she said.

“In a way they are benefitting for lessons learnt in Victoria, where they waited to lockdown to spare people the pain of lockdown, but as time went on, it became far more obvious that it was widespread and they had waited to late.

“So it seems that they have bitten the bullet and decided to bring it in.”

Business SA hoped it would lessen the long-term impact for the organisation’s members.

Chief executive Martin Haese said he received more than 350 calls yesterday from concerned employers.

Mr Haese said the measures were vital to make sure people returned to work as soon as possible.

“If the numbers absolutely dissipate in the coming days, we can’t see any reason we can’t be back at work next Wednesday, so the employer community will accept this,” he said.

“It’s tough medicine, but it’s important that we do it.”

Shane Ettridge, who owns a wine bar in Adelaide’s CBD, said it was a surprise.

“We’ve got perishables that need to be thrown away and staff to be contacted and bookings that we’ve got to speak with, so it was a shock,” he said.

“But, to be perfectly honest, I think it’s the right move.

In what way is it anti-business?

That’s what every clown this side of the sun has been telling us about prioritising health over” business as usual”, and to be honest it’s fair — it is anti-“business as usual”…

Critical public health messages by the Commonwealth about the coronavirus pandemic were bungled amid revelations bureaucrats used Google Translate to communicate with multicultural communities.

The decision by the Department of Home Affairs has been revealed in documents obtained by the ABC that show official translators were initially sidelined.

In August, the ABC revealed “nonsensical” and “laughable” language translations of COVID-19 public health messages had been distributed to multicultural communities

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/11/19/google-translate-gov-covid/

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Peter Malinauskas ·
I understand that people around South Australia are right now concerned about what is happening in our state, and wondering how we got into this position.

But South Australians should be under no misapprehension that, here in our home, we’re going to take on this challenge the South Australian way.

…..

My message to every South Australian tonight, as the eyes of the nation are now on us, let’s show them just how resilient we are.

are you implying that our Labor oppositions are playing ball better and fairer than their Liberal counterparts

Perish the thought!

dv said:

Critical public health messages by the Commonwealth about the coronavirus pandemic were bungled amid revelations bureaucrats used Google Translate to communicate with multicultural communities.

The decision by the Department of Home Affairs has been revealed in documents obtained by the ABC that show official translators were initially sidelined.

In August, the ABC revealed “nonsensical” and “laughable” language translations of COVID-19 public health messages had been distributed to multicultural communities

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/11/19/google-translate-gov-covid/

geeeez everybody should have got a babelfish, typical penny pinching govt!

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

Critical public health messages by the Commonwealth about the coronavirus pandemic were bungled amid revelations bureaucrats used Google Translate to communicate with multicultural communities.

The decision by the Department of Home Affairs has been revealed in documents obtained by the ABC that show official translators were initially sidelined.

In August, the ABC revealed “nonsensical” and “laughable” language translations of COVID-19 public health messages had been distributed to multicultural communities

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/11/19/google-translate-gov-covid/

geeeez everybody should have got a babelfish, typical penny pinching govt!

Prolly borrowed them from the ABC.

ChrispenEvan said:

Peter Malinauskas ·
I understand that people around South Australia are right now concerned about what is happening in our state, and wondering how we got into this position.

But South Australians should be under no misapprehension that, here in our home, we’re going to take on this challenge the South Australian way.

As other parts of the country have gone through trying times with COVID – now it’s our turn.

Doing this the South Australian way means we’re going to look after each other as much as we look after ourselves.
We’re going to fight for each other, not against each other.

Which means, as far as I’m concerned, unlike in Victoria, as Opposition Leader I’m here to support the government, not undermine it.

That starts with having complete faith in our public health officials.

We’re going to back in their judgement, and never doubt their motives.
We’re going to comply with their requests, not because it’s easy, but because it’s right.
We’re going to remain calm, steadfast and resolute in tackling this challenge in a way that only South Australians can.
This is going to be a tough period – none of us have confronted anything like this before.

But all of us in South Australia have an obligation to show the nation that we can tackle this challenge with grit and kindness in the same measure.

To everybody in our key public agencies working so hard to keep us safe, we’ve got your back.
To the thousands of workers, who now find themselves suddenly and unexpectedly without an income, you won’t be forgotten.

To those who are isolated, without access to family and friends, you’re only a phone call away.
To all the small businesses, worried about what tomorrow brings, a brighter day will come.
For those people who are going to be working in non-government essential services, you are our quiet heroes.
Particularly in our supermarkets and their distribution centres, I know tonight you are under extraordinary pressure, but now everybody will know what I always have – your work is more than dignified, it is essential.

My message to every South Australian tonight, as the eyes of the nation are now on us, let’s show them just how resilient we are.

Good One!

:)

ChrispenEvan said:

Peter Malinauskas ·
I understand that people around South Australia are right now concerned about what is happening in our state, and wondering how we got into this position.

But South Australians should be under no misapprehension that, here in our home, we’re going to take on this challenge the South Australian way.

As other parts of the country have gone through trying times with COVID – now it’s our turn.

Doing this the South Australian way means we’re going to look after each other as much as we look after ourselves.
We’re going to fight for each other, not against each other.

Which means, as far as I’m concerned, unlike in Victoria, as Opposition Leader I’m here to support the government, not undermine it.

That starts with having complete faith in our public health officials.

We’re going to back in their judgement, and never doubt their motives.
We’re going to comply with their requests, not because it’s easy, but because it’s right.
We’re going to remain calm, steadfast and resolute in tackling this challenge in a way that only South Australians can.
This is going to be a tough period – none of us have confronted anything like this before.

But all of us in South Australia have an obligation to show the nation that we can tackle this challenge with grit and kindness in the same measure.

To everybody in our key public agencies working so hard to keep us safe, we’ve got your back.
To the thousands of workers, who now find themselves suddenly and unexpectedly without an income, you won’t be forgotten.

To those who are isolated, without access to family and friends, you’re only a phone call away.
To all the small businesses, worried about what tomorrow brings, a brighter day will come.
For those people who are going to be working in non-government essential services, you are our quiet heroes.
Particularly in our supermarkets and their distribution centres, I know tonight you are under extraordinary pressure, but now everybody will know what I always have – your work is more than dignified, it is essential.

My message to every South Australian tonight, as the eyes of the nation are now on us, let’s show them just how resilient we are.

That’s impressive. Having put up with the Victorian Opposition Leader carping for so long, I appreciate it.

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

Critical public health messages by the Commonwealth about the coronavirus pandemic were bungled amid revelations bureaucrats used Google Translate to communicate with multicultural communities.

The decision by the Department of Home Affairs has been revealed in documents obtained by the ABC that show official translators were initially sidelined.

In August, the ABC revealed “nonsensical” and “laughable” language translations of COVID-19 public health messages had been distributed to multicultural communities

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/11/19/google-translate-gov-covid/

geeeez everybody should have got a babelfish, typical penny pinching govt!

Surely some of the responsibility could be said to fall on multicultural communities to engage with health authorities to improve that communication especially in a pandemic crisis that threatens the entire population.

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Peter Malinauskas ·
I understand that people around South Australia are right now concerned about what is happening in our state, and wondering how we got into this position.

But South Australians should be under no misapprehension that, here in our home, we’re going to take on this challenge the South Australian way.

As other parts of the country have gone through trying times with COVID – now it’s our turn.

Doing this the South Australian way means we’re going to look after each other as much as we look after ourselves.
We’re going to fight for each other, not against each other.

Which means, as far as I’m concerned, unlike in Victoria, as Opposition Leader I’m here to support the government, not undermine it.

That starts with having complete faith in our public health officials.

We’re going to back in their judgement, and never doubt their motives.
We’re going to comply with their requests, not because it’s easy, but because it’s right.
We’re going to remain calm, steadfast and resolute in tackling this challenge in a way that only South Australians can.
This is going to be a tough period – none of us have confronted anything like this before.

But all of us in South Australia have an obligation to show the nation that we can tackle this challenge with grit and kindness in the same measure.

To everybody in our key public agencies working so hard to keep us safe, we’ve got your back.
To the thousands of workers, who now find themselves suddenly and unexpectedly without an income, you won’t be forgotten.

To those who are isolated, without access to family and friends, you’re only a phone call away.
To all the small businesses, worried about what tomorrow brings, a brighter day will come.
For those people who are going to be working in non-government essential services, you are our quiet heroes.
Particularly in our supermarkets and their distribution centres, I know tonight you are under extraordinary pressure, but now everybody will know what I always have – your work is more than dignified, it is essential.

My message to every South Australian tonight, as the eyes of the nation are now on us, let’s show them just how resilient we are.

That’s impressive. Having put up with the Victorian Opposition Leader carping for so long, I appreciate it.

Young Peter probably also looked at the Victorian Opposition Leader’s polling figures :)

sibeen said:

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Peter Malinauskas

Doing this the South Australian way means we’re going to look after each other as much as we look after ourselves.
We’re going to fight for each other, not against each other.

Which means, as far as I’m concerned, unlike in Victoria, as Opposition Leader I’m here to support the government, not undermine it.

That starts with having complete faith in our public health officials.

We’re going to back in their judgement, and never doubt their motives.
We’re going to comply with their requests, not because it’s easy, but because it’s right.
We’re going to remain calm, steadfast and resolute in tackling this challenge in a way that only South Australians can.

That’s impressive. Having put up with the Victorian Opposition Leader carping for so long, I appreciate it.

Young Peter probably also looked at the Victorian Opposition Leader’s polling figures :)

so not just sensible but smart as well

SCIENCE said:

sibeen said:

buffy said:

That’s impressive. Having put up with the Victorian Opposition Leader carping for so long, I appreciate it.

Young Peter probably also looked at the Victorian Opposition Leader’s polling figures :)

so not just sensible but smart as well

:)

Headline: Strange Case Sees Kids Develop Coronavirus Antibodies Without Ever Testing Positive

https://www.sciencealert.com/everyone-in-this-family-has-coronavirus-antibodies-but-only-the-parents-had-covid-19

Michael V said:

Headline: Strange Case Sees Kids Develop Coronavirus Antibodies Without Ever Testing Positive

https://www.sciencealert.com/everyone-in-this-family-has-coronavirus-antibodies-but-only-the-parents-had-covid-19

Really healthy genetics?

I wonder if vaccines will be voluntary or compulsory and tied to an incentive

Cymek said:

I wonder if vaccines will be voluntary or compulsory and tied to an incentive

The PM said they’d be mandatory and then there was an outcry so he did what he does and flipped and said that they’d encourage everyone to have it but wouldn’t force anyone…

furious said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if vaccines will be voluntary or compulsory and tied to an incentive

The PM said they’d be mandatory and then there was an outcry so he did what he does and flipped and said that they’d encourage everyone to have it but wouldn’t force anyone…

Perhaps they will mutate turn people into zombies and we can have a proper pandemic

Cymek said:

I wonder if vaccines will be voluntary or compulsory and tied to an incentive

I dare say there could be some repercussions for those not being vaccinated. Like the “no jab” ones.

Michael V said:

Headline: Strange Case Sees Kids Develop Coronavirus Antibodies Without Ever Testing Positive

https://www.sciencealert.com/everyone-in-this-family-has-coronavirus-antibodies-but-only-the-parents-had-covid-19

The actual headline on that is more honest:

Strange Case Sees Kids Develop Coronavirus Antibodies Without Ever Testing Positive

For them all to have antibodies, they all had the virus. The kids were asymptomatic and not shedding enough virus to pick up on the testing.

The Democratic Republic of the Congo declares the end of an almost six-month Ebola outbreak in the Équateur Province. (AllAfrica.com)

It would be extremely unethical and immoral but I wonder what would happen if you gathered people with various communicable diseases together.
Could a super disease come about

Cymek said:

The Democratic Republic of the Congo declares the end of an almost six-month Ebola outbreak in the Équateur Province. (AllAfrica.com)

It would be extremely unethical and immoral but I wonder what would happen if you gathered people with various communicable diseases together.
Could a super disease come about

Highly unlikely.

1956 deaths in the US yesterday, their highest daily count since early May

The Vic government has closed the border with SA.

Viruses are disgusting. You don’t even want to know what’s coming out of my nose and throat right now.

Never mind the ‘rona, regular colds are enough to make you feel shithouse.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/18/poor-areas-of-england-face-permanent-lockdown-says-blackburn-public-health-chief

dv said:

1956 deaths in the US yesterday, their highest daily count since early May

Imagine If They’d Left The CDC In Charge

Dealing with the pandemic
Fast tests for covid-19 are coming
They will help, until a vaccine can be deployed

Science & technology
Nov 14th 2020 edition

As news emerged this week that an experimental vaccine against covid-19 has proved effective in late-stage clinical trials, hopes that the pandemic’s days may be numbered are running high (see article). But, even with the best of luck, it will be months before a vaccine starts to make a difference on the ground in those countries that get the first supplies of it, let alone the ones at the back of the queue. In the meantime, the pandemic juggernaut rolls on.

To try to slow it, many countries are starting to deploy tests which, at some cost in accuracy, deliver their results much more rapidly than the polymerase-chain-reaction (pcr) tests that were commonplace at the pandemic’s beginning. These rapid tests will allow greater numbers of infected people than previously possible to be detected and quarantined before they can spread the contagion. They are therefore being used in increasing numbers to screen people for the presence of sars-cov-2, the virus that causes covid-19, in settings ranging from airports to nursing homes. In Europe, indeed, they are sometimes used to blitz entire neighbourhoods, cities and even small countries, like Slovakia. But will they change the course of the pandemic?

Smaller, faster, cheaper
pcr tests look for the genetic sequence of the virus in nose and throat swabs. These swabs have to be processed in laboratories and require machines that take hours to come up with a result. They are extremely accurate. But the delay involved can hobble test-and-trace systems.

Rapid tests, by contrast, are designed to detect certain proteins that sars-cov-2 sheds when it replicates during an infection. These proteins, known as antigens, spur the immune system into making other proteins, called antibodies, that go on to disable the virus. Antigen tests need no laboratory backup and can report a result in 15-20 minutes. They work by dipping the swab into a vial containing a solution that extracts the antigen of interest. A few drops of the mix are then applied to a test strip laced with antibodies that recognise that antigen. The test strip displays the results like a home pregnancy test.

The speed with which these tests have been developed is impressive. More than 70 are now on the market in one part of the world or another, according to a catalogue compiled by the Foundation for Innovative New Diagnostics (find), a charity in Geneva that supports the World Health Organisation (who) with research on diagnostic tools. So far, only two of them have been granted provisional (“emergency use”) approval by the who, and seven by America’s federal regulator, the Food and Drug Administration. But more approvals are expected to be forthcoming in the weeks ahead as find and other organisations complete validation studies that test the tests in the real-life conditions in which they are likely to be used.

Early antigen tests were not terribly good, but many of the newer ones are extremely accurate. If a pcr test is negative, a modern antigen test on the same individual will agree with that analysis more than 97% of the time, a value called its specificity. The story gets complicated, though, when the virus is actually around. If someone tests positive for covid-19 in a pcr test, the best antigen tests will agree in more than 90% of cases if the testing is happening within a week or so of the onset of symptoms, a value called the sensitivity. But the rate of agreement falls if the antigen test is done at the beginning or end of an infection, when the amount of virus present in the nose and throat is considerably lower. This means that diagnoses relying on antigen tests are unreliable during those periods.

Fortunately, from a public-health point of view this may not matter. The relationship between viral load and contagiousness is not fully understood, but current thinking is that higher loads make people more contagious. Since those with higher loads are most likely to show up as positive in an antigen test and therefore be asked to isolate themselves, the transmission-breaking value of the new tests should not be too badly compromised.

In theory, then, all of this sounds great. But reality is messier. Even a highly accurate test will produce fewer true positives than false positives if the people being tested are unlikely to be infected in the first place (see chart). That would be the kind of problem which arises with mass testing in places that are not covid-19 hotspots. For example, Britain’s Office for National Statistics estimates that on October 28th 0.82% of people in private households in London were infected. If everyone in London that day was given a test that has the minimum “acceptable” accuracy for rapid tests set by the who (80% sensitivity and 97% specificity) the number of those with false-positive results will be 353% bigger than those with true positive results.

This is why deciding whether to trust the result of an imperfect rapid test—or, indeed, whether it is worth using the test at all—depends on who is being tested, and why. A positive result is more credible for someone with symptoms, or who is a close contact of an infected individual, and perhaps lives in an area with a high covid-19 rate. But testing people when there is no obvious reason to believe they may be infected is likely to be a waste. A positive result in that case will be suspect.

Do try this at home
Doctors are used to making such decisions when testing for things like cancer, sexually transmitted infections and so on. The guidelines they employ draw on years of research and practice. But for covid-19 things are new and changing rapidly. To deal with that, some test developers are pairing their products with “digital wraparounds” such as apps in which such decision-making algorithms are fed up-to-date data on things like trends in local covid-19 prevalence and the weight of various personal risk factors derived from various analyses. Some of these apps issue a time-limited bar code to those who test negative, for use where proof of a negative test may be required.

For now, rapid tests are licensed for use only by medical professionals. The regulatory bar for stand-alone home tests is set high. They must be 99% accurate and pass extensive usability trials to ensure that people employ them correctly. That would be easier if the secretion being tested was saliva, which is freely accessible, rather than material found high in the nose or deep in the throat. Saliva does work reliably in some pcr tests but no one has yet devised a good antigen test that uses it.

At the current pace of progress, though, this may soon change. Bruce Tromberg of America’s National Institutes of Health (nih) thinks that a rapid over-the-counter test could be available in America as early as next summer. Rapid antigen tests are, then, likely to become a big part of countries’ covid-19 testing strategies. In particular, they will be used for testing at home, in doctors’ surgeries, and in remote places where pcr laboratories are not available. They will be especially handy for mass testing in places prone to outbreaks, such as prisons and student dormitories.

As more rapid tests are developed and demand for them increases, competition and manufacturing at scale will make them cheaper. Stand-alone antigen tests are now available for as little as $5 apiece, but prices may eventually drop nearer to $1, which is the cost of a rapid test for malaria. Tests that use small machines are about $10-20 each, plus a few hundred dollars for the device. A pcr test now costs around $50, but will be cheaper for automated large-scale testing of samples that come in bulk on a set schedule, such as samples from universities or workplaces.

Even though antigen tests are cheap, however, some people worry that rich countries will corner the market for them until production has ramped up sufficiently, leaving poorer places with a shortage. To avoid this, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, a big charity, has teamed up with the who to place an order for 120m rapid tests which will go to 133 developing countries over the next six months.

Dr Tromberg, who leads a project at the nih which invests in new covid-19 testing technologies that can be scaled up rapidly to mass production, reckons the 22 products in his pipeline which are already at the manufacturing stage will add 2.5m tests a day by the end of this year—helping raise America’s total to 6m-7m. Around the world, several makers of rapid covid-19 tests have said they have the capacity to make tests in the tens or hundreds of millions a year. This sounds plausible, given that 400m malaria test kits are made each year. But expanding into the billions is terra incognita. Though new production lines can be built and existing ones put to work around the clock, making tests requires skilled workers, who are in limited supply.

Whether rapid tests change the course of the pandemic and end the need for lockdowns until a vaccine can likewise be made and distributed at scale will depend on whether those which are available are used wisely. Eventually, such a vaccine will reduce the demand for tests dramatically. But, for now, the world needs them.

https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/11/14/fast-tests-for-covid-19-are-coming?

furious said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if vaccines will be voluntary or compulsory and tied to an incentive

The PM said they’d be mandatory and then there was an outcry so he did what he does and flipped and said that they’d encourage everyone to have it but wouldn’t force anyone…

The PM and cronies are king cowards, imagine if our federal representatives had some guts and instead of bullying states every time they take careful pandemic control measures, they instead could keep pressure on foreign governments to get their own pandemic control shit together so that we could safely open up travel for them as well, imagine that.

I think it’s fair to say the border between SA and Vic is closed.

Rule 303 said:

I think it’s fair to say the border between SA and Vic is closed.

Flies over road block in ultra light plane, waves, coughs, sniffs, coughs, turns around.

Is It Still The Done Thing To Blame Dan For VIC Quarantine Failure And Carry On Pretending Everyone Else Was Better Than Just Lucky

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/nurse-says-alice-springs-covid-19-quarantine-falls-short/12899928

SCIENCE said:

Is It Still The Done Thing To Blame Dan For VIC Quarantine Failure And Carry On Pretending Everyone Else Was Better Than Just Lucky

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/nurse-says-alice-springs-covid-19-quarantine-falls-short/12899928

Time to blame the SA Premier….

Federal Government used Google Translate for COVID-19 messaging aimed at multicultural communities
Critical public health messages by the Commonwealth about the coronavirus pandemic were bungled amid revelations bureaucrats used Google Translate to communicate with multicultural communities.
Key points:

The Department of Home Affairs used Google Translate for its COVID-19 website Bureaucrats did not engage official translators for the website until later A peak multicultural group says incorrect public health messages can be dangerous

The decision by the Department of Home Affairs has been revealed in documents obtained by the ABC that show official translators were initially sidelined.

In August, the ABC revealed “nonsensical” and “laughable” language translations of COVID-19 public health messages had been distributed to multicultural communities.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/government-used-google-translate-for-nonsensical-covid-19-tweet/12897200

Good news though,

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/sa-records-no-new-coronavirus-cases-on-first-day-of-lockdown/12899240

. “We have woken up to a very different South Australia today,” Premier Steven Marshall said. Despite the lack of positive cases recorded on Thursday, he said there could be 1,000 South Australians unknowingly carrying the coronavirus from this cluster.

Liberal Alarmist

buffy said:

Michael V said:

Headline: Strange Case Sees Kids Develop Coronavirus Antibodies Without Ever Testing Positive

https://www.sciencealert.com/everyone-in-this-family-has-coronavirus-antibodies-but-only-the-parents-had-covid-19

The actual headline on that is more honest:

Strange Case Sees Kids Develop Coronavirus Antibodies Without Ever Testing Positive

For them all to have antibodies, they all had the virus. The kids were asymptomatic and not shedding enough virus to pick up on the testing.

kind of, it’s possible to have antibodies to the chicken pox virus without ever having had shingles, so it could well be possible to have SARS-CoV-2 (“coronavirus”) antibodies without ever having COVID-19, depends on how they’re defining

sarahs mum said:

Federal Government used Google Translate for COVID-19 messaging aimed at multicultural communities
Critical public health messages by the Commonwealth about the coronavirus pandemic were bungled amid revelations bureaucrats used Google Translate to communicate with multicultural communities.
Key points:

The Department of Home Affairs used Google Translate for its COVID-19 website Bureaucrats did not engage official translators for the website until later A peak multicultural group says incorrect public health messages can be dangerous

The decision by the Department of Home Affairs has been revealed in documents obtained by the ABC that show official translators were initially sidelined.

In August, the ABC revealed “nonsensical” and “laughable” language translations of COVID-19 public health messages had been distributed to multicultural communities.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/government-used-google-translate-for-nonsensical-covid-19-tweet/12897200

Surely some of the responsibility could be said to fall on multicultural communities to engage with health authorities to improve that communication especially in a pandemic crisis that threatens the entire population.

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1329417354325975040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1329417354325975040%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Flive%2F2020%2Fnov%2F19%2Fus-election-donald-trump-joe-biden-coronavirus-covid-19-live-updates

This person just got voted in and is fighting the good fight.

Don’t Worry Just Start World War 3 Instead To Prevent The Need To Blame COVID-19 Flock Immunity For Wrecking Another Olympics

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/tokyo-highest-restrictions-japan-announces-record-covid-19/12902192

sibeen said:

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1329417354325975040

This person just got voted in and is fighting the good fight.

“Republican“¿

Communist DPRNA Disinformation Outlet Propagates False Dilemma Fallacies

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/world/asia/covid-cleaning.html

The Coronavirus Is Airborne Indoors. Why Are We Still Scrubbing Surfaces?

Scientists who initially warned about contaminated surfaces now say that the virus spreads primarily through inhaled droplets, and that there is little to no evidence that deep cleaning mitigates the threat indoors.

“In my opinion, a lot of time, energy and money is being wasted on surface disinfection and, more importantly, diverting attention and resources away from preventing airborne transmission,” said Dr. Kevin P. Fennelly, a respiratory infection specialist with the United States National Institutes of Health.

Some experts suggest that Hong Kong, a crowded city of 7.5 million residents and a long history of infectious disease outbreaks, is a case study for the kind of operatic surface cleaning that gives ordinary people a false sense of security about the coronavirus.

—

Remember when we laughed at CHINA claiming its new outbreaks were caused by frozen imports ¿

Remember when we considered possibly believing it when there were suggestions that New Zealand outbreaks arose from contaminated … imports ¿

Remember when we totally overreacted by shutting down a whole state in Australia after some cleaner supposedly contracted COVID-19 via a surface ¿

—

MAYBE:

• when there are high rates of community transmission because some administrative region failed in its responsibility to protect its population, then focus on the airborne shit
• when you’ve cleaned most of the airborne shit up, then to prevent outbreaks starting up unexpectedly, you actually need to keep those surfaces clean

or we could just talk shit about those DIRTY ASIANS

SCIENCE said:

Good news though,

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/sa-records-no-new-coronavirus-cases-on-first-day-of-lockdown/12899240

. “We have woken up to a very different South Australia today,” Premier Steven Marshall said. Despite the lack of positive cases recorded on Thursday, he said there could be 1,000 South Australians unknowingly carrying the coronavirus from this cluster.

Liberal Alarmist

Nup

Realist.

SCIENCE said:

Good news though,

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/sa-records-no-new-coronavirus-cases-on-first-day-of-lockdown/12899240

. “We have woken up to a very different South Australia today,” Premier Steven Marshall said. Despite the lack of positive cases recorded on Thursday, he said there could be 1,000 South Australians unknowingly carrying the coronavirus from this cluster.

21 days of 00 for Vic.

Rule 303 said:

21 days of 00 for Vic.

Congrats.

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

21 days of 00 for Vic.

Congrats.

DHHS says one possible case is under investigation, and may be a false positive.

The potential case is being assessed, and precautionary public health actions are in place as investigations continue.

2065 deaths in the USA yesterday

curious

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-coronavirus-hard-lockdown-to-end-early/12903834

SCIENCE said:

curious

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-coronavirus-hard-lockdown-to-end-early/12903834

A man who lied to contact tracers about his connection to a pizza shop was the trigger for South Australia’s six-day lockdown, but the Police Commissioner says there is no penalty for failing to tell the truth.

Maddow: We Feared Susan’s Covid Would Kill Her. Your Risks Could Hurt Those You Love Most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLazQ2tlhyM

She was really good after she mumbled around for a few minutes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-police-launch-taskforce-to-investigate-pizza-worker/12906048

I’m not very clear on this. The decision to closed down the state was made when they thought this person only picked up a pizza from the shop (as well as working at the quarantine hotel). Now they will open up again because actually he was working at the pizza shop. Surely that means he had much broader contact than if he had just been a customer. I must be missing something.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-police-launch-taskforce-to-investigate-pizza-worker/12906048

I’m not very clear on this. The decision to closed down the state was made when they thought this person only picked up a pizza from the shop (as well as working at the quarantine hotel). Now they will open up again because actually he was working at the pizza shop. Surely that means he had much broader contact than if he had just been a customer. I must be missing something.

Journalists very often get details wrong, and it’s Friday afternoon.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-police-launch-taskforce-to-investigate-pizza-worker/12906048

I’m not very clear on this. The decision to closed down the state was made when they thought this person only picked up a pizza from the shop (as well as working at the quarantine hotel). Now they will open up again because actually he was working at the pizza shop. Surely that means he had much broader contact than if he had just been a customer. I must be missing something.

I think they thought it was particularly contagious if he got it for being there a few minutes.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-police-launch-taskforce-to-investigate-pizza-worker/12906048

I’m not very clear on this. The decision to closed down the state was made when they thought this person only picked up a pizza from the shop (as well as working at the quarantine hotel). Now they will open up again because actually he was working at the pizza shop. Surely that means he had much broader contact than if he had just been a customer. I must be missing something.

They believed that this was a more contagious strain than normal because of his claim of brief contact, hence the lockdown.

Rule 303 said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-police-launch-taskforce-to-investigate-pizza-worker/12906048

I’m not very clear on this. The decision to closed down the state was made when they thought this person only picked up a pizza from the shop (as well as working at the quarantine hotel). Now they will open up again because actually he was working at the pizza shop. Surely that means he had much broader contact than if he had just been a customer. I must be missing something.

Journalists very often get details wrong, and it’s Friday afternoon.

The article is correct.

furious said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-police-launch-taskforce-to-investigate-pizza-worker/12906048

I’m not very clear on this. The decision to closed down the state was made when they thought this person only picked up a pizza from the shop (as well as working at the quarantine hotel). Now they will open up again because actually he was working at the pizza shop. Surely that means he had much broader contact than if he had just been a customer. I must be missing something.

I think they thought it was particularly contagious if he got it for being there a few minutes.

Yes, but…now they know he worked there, he had many more contacts.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3110467/hong-kong-facing-12-new-cases-covid-19-city

Hong Kong’s fourth wave has started, two top infectious disease experts warn, as more than 30 confirmed and preliminary cases reported

Ranking the effectiveness of worldwide COVID-19 government interventions

The left-hand panel shows the combined 95% confidence intervals of ΔRt for the most effective interventions across all included territories. The heatmap in the right-hand panel shows the corresponding Z-scores of measure effectiveness as determined by the four different methods. Grey indicates no significantly positive effect.

Remember how early on there was the occasional genius who would fearfully speak of the implications of the sanitation-virulence hypothesis? example

Did someone listen ¿

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/19/letting-covid-19-circulate-in-hope-of-herd-immunity-could-make-it-more-lethal

A deeply entrenched idea, that newly emerged agents of disease inevitably evolve to become more benign over time, is scientifically unfounded, according to new research.

They can, in fact, become more virulent depending on the conditions, and the easier it is for a virus to spread, the more likely it is to do so.

Public health experts have been warning for months that trying to achieve herd immunity by letting the virus circulate more-or-less freely is dangerous because it could lead to unnecessary deaths and health services being overwhelmed. However, they have not generally taken into account the possibility that it could make the disease more lethal – at least until sufficient immunity has built up in the human population.

Since the 1980s, evolutionary biologists have predicted an association between the virulence and transmissibility of a novel pathogen, based on theoretical models.

In the new study, published in the journal Evolution Letters, a team led by the evolutionary ecologist Camille Bonneaud, of the University of Exeter, took advantage of a natural experiment. This was in the form of a serious eye disease that spread through house finches in the eastern US after a bacterium called Mycoplasma gallisepticum jumped the species barrier from poultry in 1994.

—

Note however that they do go on to say that COVID-19 appears to be becoming less virulent, at least for now — and as we achieve that flock immunity by killing or incapacitating people who are bad at protecting their community, that will probably continue.

So what are they going to do now, say that being careful and shutting down infection risks until the facts of the matter have been established, was the wrong thing to do ¿

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-20/sa-police-launch-taskforce-to-investigate-pizza-worker/12906048

I’ve been wondering about the processing steps involved in how a bouitique vacccine shop could make a Covid-19 vaccine. Purity and yield.

Preparation, before selling any vaccines:

• Obtain from a human body donated to medical science, a lung cancer from a person who died of lung cancer (the right type of lung cancer). Lung cancer cells are not immortal so this process would have to be repeated every couple of months.
• Slice the lung cancer up fine, say 100 micron slices. Place each slice in a petrie dish and clean thoroughly with saline. The thin slice is to ensure that all cells get access to nutrients and so are disinclined to differentiate.
• The resulting cell cultures (aim for about 1,000 petrie dishes), are bathed in cell-free nutrient and re-sliced when they grow too thick.

Getting the order for a specially tailored Covid-19 vaccine:

• The customer supplies a tissue sample containing the virus. (Call this stage 1).
• Immediately dilute to incoming sample with saline to stop further infections.
• Filter the resulting saline to trap only particles between 0.1 and 0.14 microns in diameter. Centrifuge could be used as well but isn’t essential. The result will be almost pure live Covid-19 virus.
• Dilute the result with saline.
• Apply the live virus to a single petrie dish of lung cell culture and incubate overnight, or perhaps over 2 days.
• Carefully pour off supernatant without tearing the neoplasm.
• Filter the supernatant to trap only particles between 0.1 and 0.14 microns in diameter. Centrifuge could be used as well but isn’t essential. The result will be almost pure live Covid-19 virus.
• Dilute the result with saline. (Call this stage 2).
• Determine the concentration of viruses by their ability to cause aggregates of red blood cells.

Then from Stage 2:

• Kill the virus. (The ideal would be to destroy the ssRNA by heat without destroying the capsid, but let’s suppose that that isn’t possible). Kill the virus using a proven method, mix well.
• Separate out the spike glycoproteins from the virus coat by centrifuge and either filtration or chromatography. These proteins are 20 nm long and 5 nm across.
• Dilute spike glycoproteins in saline – that’s the vaccine. With a bit of luck, sufficient for up to 100 doses.

There are possible variants on this. In one variant, spike proteins could also be separated directly from the dead viruses attached to the coats of cells in the tissue sample supplied by the customer (stage 1). This would generate the vaccine faster, and do it without requiring any separate culture on petrie dishes, but it would definitely require chromatography for separation because of the plethora of other proteins in the original tissue sample.

Good news dressed up as bad

https://www.smh.com.au/national/we-have-not-delivered-dozens-of-australian-covid-trials-fail-to-learn-anything-new-20201120-p56ghk.html

Good news dressed up as bad

https://www.smh.com.au/national/we-have-not-delivered-dozens-of-australian-covid-trials-fail-to-learn-anything-new-20201120-p56ghk.html

China has urged its ports to “take immediate action” to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission after it reportedly found cases it says are linked to contaminated frozen food packaging.

Concerns about importing coronavirus came after packages of frozen food from more than 20 countries, including Argentinian beef, German pork, Indian cuttlefish and Saudi shrimp, tested positive for COVID-19 in more than 10 provinces, Chinese authorities said.

Key points:

• Expert says China’s positive test claims require further evidence

• Australian exporters sold $10.6 billion worth of food in China last year

• Under the new testing scheme, foreign businesses could lose access to the Chinese market for up to a month

==================================

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/china-tests-imported-frozen-food-for-coronavirus/12895284

Michael V said:

China has urged its ports to “take immediate action” to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission after it reportedly found cases it says are linked to contaminated frozen food packaging.

Concerns about importing coronavirus came after packages of frozen food from more than 20 countries, including Argentinian beef, German pork, Indian cuttlefish and Saudi shrimp, tested positive for COVID-19 in more than 10 provinces, Chinese authorities said.

Key points:

• Expert says China’s positive test claims require further evidence

• Australian exporters sold $10.6 billion worth of food in China last year

• Under the new testing scheme, foreign businesses could lose access to the Chinese market for up to a month

==================================

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/china-tests-imported-frozen-food-for-coronavirus/12895284

It did take 9 months to agree that there is airborne spread so we guess this will take a bit longer.

On the other hand for this to legitimately stop Australian exports is pretty unlikely while we keep good pandemic control.

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

China has urged its ports to “take immediate action” to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission after it reportedly found cases it says are linked to contaminated frozen food packaging.

Concerns about importing coronavirus came after packages of frozen food from more than 20 countries, including Argentinian beef, German pork, Indian cuttlefish and Saudi shrimp, tested positive for COVID-19 in more than 10 provinces, Chinese authorities said.

Key points:

• Expert says China’s positive test claims require further evidence

• Australian exporters sold $10.6 billion worth of food in China last year

• Under the new testing scheme, foreign businesses could lose access to the Chinese market for up to a month

==================================

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/china-tests-imported-frozen-food-for-coronavirus/12895284

It did take 9 months to agree that there is airborne spread so we guess this will take a bit longer.

On the other hand for this to legitimately stop Australian exports is pretty unlikely while we keep good pandemic control.

Did it really? I don’t know about you, but in my optometry practice, we had been wiping surfaces and spraying Glen20 over the Winter season and extra if someone runny came in for many, many years. It’s been welll known for a long time now how cold and flu viruses spread.

Donald Trump Jr. is the latest member of the president’s inner circle to test positive for COVID-19.

The president’s son is asymptomatic and has been in quarantine since early this week, a spokesperson told Bloomberg.

His positive test result adds him to a long list of infected people with ties to the White House—many linked to a superspreader event associated with the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court.

Rudy Giuliani’s son, Andrew, a special assistant to the president, also announced his positive diagnosis today. Despite the continued spread of the virus among Trump’s friends and family, his administration continues flouting social distancing guidelines.

Trump Jr. is expected to be a guest speaker at Turning Point USA’s planned superspreader event next month. If his father’s behavior is any indication, catching the ’rona won’t make him change plans.

https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/11/donald-trump-jr-has-covid-19/

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

China has urged its ports to “take immediate action” to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission after it reportedly found cases it says are linked to contaminated frozen food packaging.

Concerns about importing coronavirus came after packages of frozen food from more than 20 countries, including Argentinian beef, German pork, Indian cuttlefish and Saudi shrimp, tested positive for COVID-19 in more than 10 provinces, Chinese authorities said.

Key points:

• Expert says China’s positive test claims require further evidence

• Australian exporters sold $10.6 billion worth of food in China last year

• Under the new testing scheme, foreign businesses could lose access to the Chinese market for up to a month

==================================

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/china-tests-imported-frozen-food-for-coronavirus/12895284

It did take 9 months to agree that there is airborne spread so we guess this will take a bit longer.

On the other hand for this to legitimately stop Australian exports is pretty unlikely while we keep good pandemic control.

Did it really? I don’t know about you, but in my optometry practice, we had been wiping surfaces and spraying Glen20 over the Winter season and extra if someone runny came in for many, many years. It’s been welll known for a long time now how cold and flu viruses spread.

uh said

wearing masks

and on imported packaging

Nearly half a million sailors trapped at sea by coronavirus restrictions. That’s a lot of sailors.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/maritime-workers-left-floating-in-a-sea-of-red-tape/12899040

Bubblecar said:

Nearly half a million sailors trapped at sea by coronavirus restrictions. That’s a lot of sailors.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/maritime-workers-left-floating-in-a-sea-of-red-tape/12899040

Well it is one of the costs. Would they rather kill somebody’s grandmother?

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Nearly half a million sailors trapped at sea by coronavirus restrictions. That’s a lot of sailors.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/maritime-workers-left-floating-in-a-sea-of-red-tape/12899040

Well it is one of the costs. Would they rather kill somebody’s grandmother?

Read the article. Many of them are now basically slave labour. They’re not allowed to return home or go ashore. The ships can’t change crews because of border restrictions and so crews who signed up for one voyage are now trapped into doing many.

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Nearly half a million sailors trapped at sea by coronavirus restrictions. That’s a lot of sailors.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/maritime-workers-left-floating-in-a-sea-of-red-tape/12899040

Well it is one of the costs. Would they rather kill somebody’s grandmother?

I think doing an 18 month shift and not being allowed off the ship is a bit much and surely something better can be worked out.

Bubblecar said:

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Nearly half a million sailors trapped at sea by coronavirus restrictions. That’s a lot of sailors.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/maritime-workers-left-floating-in-a-sea-of-red-tape/12899040

Well it is one of the costs. Would they rather kill somebody’s grandmother?

Read the article. Many of them are now basically slave labour. They’re not allowed to return home or go ashore. The ships can’t change crews because of border restrictions and so crews who signed up for one voyage are now trapped into doing many.

I know about it but what can I do?

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Nearly half a million sailors trapped at sea by coronavirus restrictions. That’s a lot of sailors.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/maritime-workers-left-floating-in-a-sea-of-red-tape/12899040

Well it is one of the costs. Would they rather kill somebody’s grandmother?

I think doing an 18 month shift and not being allowed off the ship is a bit much and surely something better can be worked out.

I agree but what can you and I do?

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Well it is one of the costs. Would they rather kill somebody’s grandmother?

I think doing an 18 month shift and not being allowed off the ship is a bit much and surely something better can be worked out.

I agree but what can you and I do?

Lobby your local MP. write to the appropriate minister. If that doesn’t work start a grassroots movement to do the same lobbying.become known on social media. become know to MSM.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I think doing an 18 month shift and not being allowed off the ship is a bit much and surely something better can be worked out.

I agree but what can you and I do?

Lobby your local MP. write to the appropriate minister. If that doesn’t work start a grassroots movement to do the same lobbying.become known on social media. become know to MSM.

That being the case I am sure there is probably a petition or two out there already to sign?

A junior doctor ‘heard a bit of a cough and thought they would take the swab and that is where we started’

Professor Spurrier talking about the origins of the outbreak, and how we got where we are now.

The first case:

So when we first got our first case, just recall that that came out of the blue, suddenly in the middle of the night on Saturday night last week, and the real reason we pick that up was not because somebody had classic COVID symptoms and came to the emergency department, it was because of our astute young doctor, junior doctor, who heard a bit of a cough and thought they would take the swab and that is where we started.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

I agree but what can you and I do?

Lobby your local MP. write to the appropriate minister. If that doesn’t work start a grassroots movement to do the same lobbying.become known on social media. become know to MSM.

That being the case I am sure there is probably a petition or two out there already to sign?

did they care about the half million Real Aussies who wanted Murdereroch to be accountable

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Lobby your local MP. write to the appropriate minister. If that doesn’t work start a grassroots movement to do the same lobbying.become known on social media. become know to MSM.

That being the case I am sure there is probably a petition or two out there already to sign?

did they care about the half million Real Aussies who wanted Murdereroch to be accountable

Apparently not. Apparently most Australians buy Murdoch papers or watch Murdoch TV.

SCIENCE said:

A junior doctor ‘heard a bit of a cough and thought they would take the swab and that is where we started’

Professor Spurrier talking about the origins of the outbreak, and how we got where we are now.

The first case:

So when we first got our first case, just recall that that came out of the blue, suddenly in the middle of the night on Saturday night last week, and the real reason we pick that up was not because somebody had classic COVID symptoms and came to the emergency department, it was because of our astute young doctor, junior doctor, who heard a bit of a cough and thought they would take the swab and that is where we started.

I’m sure I heard a report on the radio a couple of days ago that it was found in a pre-surgical workup. This seems to be a different story.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/we-have-not-delivered-dozens-of-australian-covid-trials-fail-to-learn-anything-new-20201120-p56ghk.html

Millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on dozens of Australian COVID-19 clinical treatment trials that have so far largely failed to produce any new scientific knowledge.

Researchers said a lack of national leadership meant far too many clinical trials were set up for a range of potential COVID-19 drugs and that they had competed with each other for a limited pool of patients.

Divine Angel said:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/we-have-not-delivered-dozens-of-australian-covid-trials-fail-to-learn-anything-new-20201120-p56ghk.html

Millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on dozens of Australian COVID-19 clinical treatment trials that have so far largely failed to produce any new scientific knowledge.

Researchers said a lack of national leadership meant far too many clinical trials were set up for a range of potential COVID-19 drugs and that they had competed with each other for a limited pool of patients.

National leadership.
Would that be Scomo?

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Tau.Neutrino said:

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Maybe they should just put up the person’s name and address on the notice board at the local pub…

Tau.Neutrino said:

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Also the person had no reason to lie, he would not have been punished for having two jobs

That makes no sense.

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Maybe they should just put up the person’s name and address on the notice board at the local pub…

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Also the person had no reason to lie, he would not have been punished for having two jobs

That makes no sense.

maybe one is cash in hand and the ato might take an interest.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Also the person had no reason to lie, he would not have been punished for having two jobs

That makes no sense.

maybe one is cash in hand and the ato might take an interest.

ok didnt think of that, the fear of the ATO

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Also the person had no reason to lie, he would not have been punished for having two jobs

That makes no sense.

https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/A/CRIMINAL%20LAW%20CONSOLIDATION%20ACT%201935/CURRENT/1935.2252.AUTH.PDF

Division 5—Deception
139—Deception

A person who deceives another and, by doing so—
(a) dishonestly benefits him/herself or a third person; or
(b) dishonestly causes a detriment to the person subjected to the deception or a
third person,

is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty:

(a) for a basic offence—imprisonment for 10 years;
(b) for an aggravated offence—imprisonment for 15 years.

Criminal Law Consolidation Act 1935—13.8.2018
Part 5—Offences of dishonesty Pp 7-8
Division 5—Deception

China’s large-scale coronavirus tests on imported frozen foods may put more Australian exports on hold

China has urged its ports to “take immediate action” to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission after it reportedly found cases it says are linked to contaminated frozen food packaging.

more…

Michael V said:

China has urged its ports to “take immediate action” to minimise the risk of COVID-19 transmission after it reportedly found cases it says are linked to contaminated frozen food packaging.

Concerns about importing coronavirus came after packages of frozen food from more than 20 countries, including Argentinian beef, German pork, Indian cuttlefish and Saudi shrimp, tested positive for COVID-19 in more than 10 provinces, Chinese authorities said.

==================================

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/china-tests-imported-frozen-food-for-coronavirus/12895284

Every other country needs to, too. As of nine months ago.

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SA should consider making lies to COVID testing officials a crime. Isn’t lying to a court a crime ?

When you consider the logic and ethics of one person lying and shutting down a whole state because of it.

SA govenemnt are lawmakers, the inconsistencies across states need to be addressed somehow.

Maybe they should just put up the person’s name and address on the notice board at the local pub…

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

Maybe they should just put up the person’s name and address on the notice board at the local pub…

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

Presumably because the tracing is now more straightforward.

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

Presumably because the tracing is now more straightforward.

Yes, could be. Wise One said before, nothing wrong with shutting down until you know someone lied.

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

Maybe they should just put up the person’s name and address on the notice board at the local pub…

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

You may not agree with it but the explanation is the fear it was far more contagious AFAICT

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

You may not agree with it but the explanation is the fear it was far more contagious AFAICT

Dr Sara Marzouk

To those of you who are a little confused by what’s happening in South Australia, and why the Government has announced that their 6 day statewide lockdown will now end after 3 days instead, let me try and clarify what has happened.

By now, you all know that the index case in this South Australian outbreak was a woman who worked as a cleaner at the Peppers Waymouth medi-hotel in Adelaide. It is believed she picked up the virus from contaminated surfaces traced back to an expat who had returned from the UK.

The woman, in addition to passing on the virus to a large number of her family members, also infected at least two security guards at Peppers, who were both asymptomatic.

One of these security guards had a second job working at the Woodville Pizza Bar.

Across town, a young man working in the kitchen of another medi-hotel, the Stamford Hotel, also tested positive to the virus. The contact tracers desperately tried to determine how he could have been infected when he worked at a different hotel without a common link between them.

He informed contact tracers that he had visited the Woodville Pizza Bar to purchase a pizza. He specifically stated that he had not crossed paths with the infectious guard from Peppers who was working shifts at the pizzeria at the same time. Without a direct contact link between the two men, this resulted in contact tracers making the only possible conclusion: that there was an unknown intermediary between the two men who’d had contact with both of them and was now out in the community potentially spreading the virus to others. The concern was that there were other potentially infectious people now out in the community due to this unknown intermediary.

As a result, the Government implemented a lockdown to try and limit movement, and to buy time to trace everyone who might have been at Woodville’s the day the infectious Peppers guard and the Stamford Hotel kitchen worker both attended the pizzeria.

The issue is that the Stamford Hotel kitchen worker had lied. He hadn’t merely visited the pizzeria to purchase a pizza. He had worked several shifts there and was in fact a close contact of the Peppers guard who also worked there. There was no ‘unknown’ intermediary between the men running amok in the community and hence there was no legitimate reason to completely lockdown the state to the extent they did.

We could ask questions as to why a young man felt he needed to lie about having a second job. We could talk about the financial pressures and insecurity that results from holding casual employment in Australia. We can have a conversation about why business owners exploit vulnerable workers with cash in hand jobs.

But it’s not the time for it. So dear South Australians, please put away your torches and pitchforks.

The only important lesson out of this is that brutal honesty is essential if we are going to successfully deal with COVID outbreaks. Lies and half truths endanger the community and will have greater detrimental ramifications than the truth ever will.

We saw it in Victoria with the truck driver who felt the need to omit the fact that he had travelled to Shepparton, hence endangering the entire town.

We see it today in Adelaide, with South Australians enduring a lockdown as a consequence of one man’s dishonesty.
I’ve always loved the saying ‘it is better to be hit with the truth than kissed with a lie’.

In these COVID times please realise that the lies don’t kiss. They kill.

Tell the truth. Always.

- Sara

Addit: New reports suggests that the kitchen hand had claimed he ordered a takeaway pizza. Whether it was collected personally or delivered is unknown. Based on the latter scenario, if the kitchen hand had not physically attended the pizza shop, the other terrifying conclusion is that this ‘strain’ is so virulent that just spending a few minutes in the pizza shop was enough to infect you, hence every single person who had entered the shop, picked up a pizza or made a pizza delivery through those delivery apps was also a possible vector for viral spread. This explains why takeaway deliveries were banned during the circuit breaker.

Terrifying either way and the situation obviously spooked the government enough to trigger the circuit breaker. Of course with close contact established we know that neither these concerns re an intermediary or a super virulent strain has come to fruition.

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

You may not agree with it but the explanation is the fear it was far more contagious AFAICT

Dr Sara Marzouk

To those of you who are a little confused by what’s happening in South Australia, and why the Government has announced that their 6 day statewide lockdown will now end after 3 days instead, let me try and clarify what has happened.

By now, you all know that the index case in this South Australian outbreak was a woman who worked as a cleaner at the Peppers Waymouth medi-hotel in Adelaide. It is believed she picked up the virus from contaminated surfaces traced back to an expat who had returned from the UK.

The woman, in addition to passing on the virus to a large number of her family members, also infected at least two security guards at Peppers, who were both asymptomatic.

One of these security guards had a second job working at the Woodville Pizza Bar.

Across town, a young man working in the kitchen of another medi-hotel, the Stamford Hotel, also tested positive to the virus. The contact tracers desperately tried to determine how he could have been infected when he worked at a different hotel without a common link between them.

He informed contact tracers that he had visited the Woodville Pizza Bar to purchase a pizza. He specifically stated that he had not crossed paths with the infectious guard from Peppers who was working shifts at the pizzeria at the same time. Without a direct contact link between the two men, this resulted in contact tracers making the only possible conclusion: that there was an unknown intermediary between the two men who’d had contact with both of them and was now out in the community potentially spreading the virus to others. The concern was that there were other potentially infectious people now out in the community due to this unknown intermediary.

As a result, the Government implemented a lockdown to try and limit movement, and to buy time to trace everyone who might have been at Woodville’s the day the infectious Peppers guard and the Stamford Hotel kitchen worker both attended the pizzeria.

The issue is that the Stamford Hotel kitchen worker had lied. He hadn’t merely visited the pizzeria to purchase a pizza. He had worked several shifts there and was in fact a close contact of the Peppers guard who also worked there. There was no ‘unknown’ intermediary between the men running amok in the community and hence there was no legitimate reason to completely lockdown the state to the extent they did.

We could ask questions as to why a young man felt he needed to lie about having a second job. We could talk about the financial pressures and insecurity that results from holding casual employment in Australia. We can have a conversation about why business owners exploit vulnerable workers with cash in hand jobs.

But it’s not the time for it. So dear South Australians, please put away your torches and pitchforks.

The only important lesson out of this is that brutal honesty is essential if we are going to successfully deal with COVID outbreaks. Lies and half truths endanger the community and will have greater detrimental ramifications than the truth ever will.

We saw it in Victoria with the truck driver who felt the need to omit the fact that he had travelled to Shepparton, hence endangering the entire town.

We see it today in Adelaide, with South Australians enduring a lockdown as a consequence of one man’s dishonesty.
I’ve always loved the saying ‘it is better to be hit with the truth than kissed with a lie’.

In these COVID times please realise that the lies don’t kiss. They kill.

Tell the truth. Always.

- Sara

Addit: New reports suggests that the kitchen hand had claimed he ordered a takeaway pizza. Whether it was collected personally or delivered is unknown. Based on the latter scenario, if the kitchen hand had not physically attended the pizza shop, the other terrifying conclusion is that this ‘strain’ is so virulent that just spending a few minutes in the pizza shop was enough to infect you, hence every single person who had entered the shop, picked up a pizza or made a pizza delivery through those delivery apps was also a possible vector for viral spread. This explains why takeaway deliveries were banned during the circuit breaker.

Terrifying either way and the situation obviously spooked the government enough to trigger the circuit breaker. Of course with close contact established we know that neither these concerns re an intermediary or a super virulent strain has come to fruition.

I imagine it was suspected there might be a super-spreader too.

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

You may not agree with it but the explanation is the fear it was far more contagious AFAICT

I’ve seen that mentioned here, but not in the news.

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

Maybe they should just put up the person’s name and address on the notice board at the local pub…

or maybe the info you give tracers only goes to them and that way if you have two jobs etc the ATO etc don’t find out.

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

the risks assessed include knowns, partial knowns, and possible unknowns, the state government in response to what it’s assessed of slow responses elsewhere has gone with an exponential scale and rapid response (to get ahead of possible worst case situations) and rollbacks of the extreme lockdown measures when considered safe to do so, which inclines responsiveness in the population, has a reward aspect

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

And stop and think about it. Does anyone seriously think the state was shut down because of information from one person? And as I pointed out yesterday, I would consider the risk now higher because now it is known he had contact with more people. And yet – the shutdown is reversed. It still doesn’t make sense to me. If they thought it was necessary to shutdown when he might have caught it off a pizza box, or the counter at the pizza place, or the door at the pizza place or someone else in the pizza place…why is the risk less now they know he was there longer than he said?

You may not agree with it but the explanation is the fear it was far more contagious AFAICT

Dr Sara Marzouk

To those of you who are a little confused by what’s happening in South Australia, and why the Government has announced that their 6 day statewide lockdown will now end after 3 days instead, let me try and clarify what has happened.

By now, you all know that the index case in this South Australian outbreak was a woman who worked as a cleaner at the Peppers Waymouth medi-hotel in Adelaide. It is believed she picked up the virus from contaminated surfaces traced back to an expat who had returned from the UK.

The woman, in addition to passing on the virus to a large number of her family members, also infected at least two security guards at Peppers, who were both asymptomatic.

One of these security guards had a second job working at the Woodville Pizza Bar.

Across town, a young man working in the kitchen of another medi-hotel, the Stamford Hotel, also tested positive to the virus. The contact tracers desperately tried to determine how he could have been infected when he worked at a different hotel without a common link between them.

He informed contact tracers that he had visited the Woodville Pizza Bar to purchase a pizza. He specifically stated that he had not crossed paths with the infectious guard from Peppers who was working shifts at the pizzeria at the same time. Without a direct contact link between the two men, this resulted in contact tracers making the only possible conclusion: that there was an unknown intermediary between the two men who’d had contact with both of them and was now out in the community potentially spreading the virus to others. The concern was that there were other potentially infectious people now out in the community due to this unknown intermediary.

As a result, the Government implemented a lockdown to try and limit movement, and to buy time to trace everyone who might have been at Woodville’s the day the infectious Peppers guard and the Stamford Hotel kitchen worker both attended the pizzeria.

The issue is that the Stamford Hotel kitchen worker had lied. He hadn’t merely visited the pizzeria to purchase a pizza. He had worked several shifts there and was in fact a close contact of the Peppers guard who also worked there. There was no ‘unknown’ intermediary between the men running amok in the community and hence there was no legitimate reason to completely lockdown the state to the extent they did.

We could ask questions as to why a young man felt he needed to lie about having a second job. We could talk about the financial pressures and insecurity that results from holding casual employment in Australia. We can have a conversation about why business owners exploit vulnerable workers with cash in hand jobs.

But it’s not the time for it. So dear South Australians, please put away your torches and pitchforks.

The only important lesson out of this is that brutal honesty is essential if we are going to successfully deal with COVID outbreaks. Lies and half truths endanger the community and will have greater detrimental ramifications than the truth ever will.

We saw it in Victoria with the truck driver who felt the need to omit the fact that he had travelled to Shepparton, hence endangering the entire town.

We see it today in Adelaide, with South Australians enduring a lockdown as a consequence of one man’s dishonesty.
I’ve always loved the saying ‘it is better to be hit with the truth than kissed with a lie’.

In these COVID times please realise that the lies don’t kiss. They kill.

Tell the truth. Always.

- Sara

Addit: New reports suggests that the kitchen hand had claimed he ordered a takeaway pizza. Whether it was collected personally or delivered is unknown. Based on the latter scenario, if the kitchen hand had not physically attended the pizza shop, the other terrifying conclusion is that this ‘strain’ is so virulent that just spending a few minutes in the pizza shop was enough to infect you, hence every single person who had entered the shop, picked up a pizza or made a pizza delivery through those delivery apps was also a possible vector for viral spread. This explains why takeaway deliveries were banned during the circuit breaker.

Terrifying either way and the situation obviously spooked the government enough to trigger the circuit breaker. Of course with close contact established we know that neither these concerns re an intermediary or a super virulent strain has come to fruition.

Thank you. That’s the first explanation I’ve seen.

ChrispenEvan said:

We could ask questions as to why a young man felt he needed to lie about having a second job. We could talk about the financial pressures and insecurity that results from holding casual employment in Australia. We can have a conversation about why business owners exploit vulnerable workers with cash in hand jobs.

But it’s not the time for it. So dear South Australians, please put away your torches and pitchforks.

Bugger that, the Premier has demanded a lynching and a lynching we will have, by Jove!

Anyone want to read some more of Sebastian?

Facemasks research:

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/11/19/covid-19-new-evidence-on-face-masks/

Long COVID

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/11/17/what-is-long-covid/

I find it interesting to read the comments on his pieces. Often I don’t read comments sections.

buffy said:

Anyone want to read some more of Sebastian?

Facemasks research:

https://sebastianrushworth.com/

don’t listen to us but we’re putting it out there that the dude is a shill

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

Anyone want to read some more of Sebastian?

Facemasks research:

https://sebastianrushworth.com/

don’t listen to us but we’re putting it out there that the dude is a shill

For whom?

Doctor Réalisés Cough Might Be À Respiratory Infection And That Makes It Headline News

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/sa-coronavirus-outbreak-detected-by-junior-doctor/12907610

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

Anyone want to read some more of Sebastian?

Facemasks research:

https://sebastianrushworth.com/

don’t listen to us but we’re putting it out there that the dude is a shill

For whom?

for flock immunity and other pseudoscientific positions on COVID-19

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

Anyone want to read some more of Sebastian?

Facemasks research:

https://sebastianrushworth.com/

don’t listen to us but we’re putting it out there that the dude is a shill

Heh.

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

don’t listen to us but we’re putting it out there that the dude is a shill

For whom?

for flock immunity and other pseudoscientific positions on COVID-19

Are you suggesting Annals of Internal Medicine is a pseudoscientific publication? Is suspect they would be offended by that.

The paper about face masks is here:

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

buffy said:

Anyone want to read some more of Sebastian?

Facemasks research:

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/11/19/covid-19-new-evidence-on-face-masks/

Long COVID

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/11/17/what-is-long-covid/

I find it interesting to read the comments on his pieces. Often I don’t read comments sections.

There’s a nutter or two in the comment section :)

I always though the mask is better at stopping a spread rather than stopping a person coming down with a disease. As I was reading the first article I was hoping he was going to address that. He finally covered it near the end.

sibeen said:

buffy said:

Anyone want to read some more of Sebastian?

Facemasks research:

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/11/19/covid-19-new-evidence-on-face-masks/

Long COVID

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/11/17/what-is-long-covid/

I find it interesting to read the comments on his pieces. Often I don’t read comments sections.

There’s a nutter or two in the comment section :)

I always though the mask is better at stopping a spread rather than stopping a person coming down with a disease. As I was reading the first article I was hoping he was going to address that. He finally covered it near the end.

I congratulate you on wasting your time with such dedication.

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

For whom?

for flock immunity and other pseudoscientific positions on COVID-19

Are you suggesting Annals of Internal Medicine is a pseudoscientific publication? Is suspect they would be offended by that.

The paper about face masks is here:

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

we do believe the lancet published some evidence that immunisation caused autism

SCIENCE said:

Doctor Réalisés Cough Might Be À Respiratory Infection And That Makes It Headline News

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/sa-coronavirus-outbreak-detected-by-junior-doctor/12907610

Because that one is what started the Outbreak

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

Doctor Réalisés Cough Might Be À Respiratory Infection And That Makes It Headline News

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/sa-coronavirus-outbreak-detected-by-junior-doctor/12907610

Because that one is what started the Outbreak

right but when the messaging is “if you have any symptoms, even mild, including cough, then get tested” then it’s hardly an impressive feat for a qualified professional attending to patients (who presumably attend a hospital with symptoms) to recognise that symptoms should get tested

we mean, our 4 year old cousin could tell you that, and we don’t even have a 4 year old cousin

the fact that this is an amazing piece of work, or even just a pleasant surprise makes us wonder what we’re really expecting of our doctors

…

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

Doctor Réalisés Cough Might Be À Respiratory Infection And That Makes It Headline News

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-21/sa-coronavirus-outbreak-detected-by-junior-doctor/12907610

Because that one is what started the Outbreak

right but when the messaging is “if you have any symptoms, even mild, including cough, then get tested” then it’s hardly an impressive feat for a qualified professional attending to patients (who presumably attend a hospital with symptoms) to recognise that symptoms should get tested

we mean, our 4 year old cousin could tell you that, and we don’t even have a 4 year old cousin

the fact that this is an amazing piece of work, or even just a pleasant surprise makes us wonder what we’re really expecting of our doctors

…

Yeah, but 4 years old don’t have swabs and a lab for testing.

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Because that one is what started the Outbreak

right but when the messaging is “if you have any symptoms, even mild, including cough, then get tested” then it’s hardly an impressive feat for a qualified professional attending to patients (who presumably attend a hospital with symptoms) to recognise that symptoms should get tested

we mean, our 4 year old cousin could tell you that, and we don’t even have a 4 year old cousin

the fact that this is an amazing piece of work, or even just a pleasant surprise makes us wonder what we’re really expecting of our doctors

…

Yeah, but 4 years old don’t have swabs and a lab for testing.

The other side is one cough could get no attention and then becomes a major cluster

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

right but when the messaging is “if you have any symptoms, even mild, including cough, then get tested” then it’s hardly an impressive feat for a qualified professional attending to patients (who presumably attend a hospital with symptoms) to recognise that symptoms should get tested

we mean, our 4 year old cousin could tell you that, and we don’t even have a 4 year old cousin

the fact that this is an amazing piece of work, or even just a pleasant surprise makes us wonder what we’re really expecting of our doctors

…

Yeah, but 4 years old don’t have swabs and a lab for testing.

The other side is one cough could get no attention and then becomes a major cluster

How many 4 year old know how to do a proper swab test ?

I see your point though

Im still in a grumpy mood

Have been all day.