The most difficult step in dead-virus (and recombinant DNA arthropod) vaccine production is protein purification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_purification

Much as I expected. I’d like to go straight from ultracentrifuge to ultrafiltration, but that’s only possible if there are only a few proteins to start with, which may be sufficient for some viruses. Chromatography is a capital intensive and relatively slow process.

mollwollfumble said:

The most difficult step in dead-virus (and recombinant DNA arthropod) vaccine production is protein purification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_purification

Much as I expected. I’d like to go straight from ultracentrifuge to ultrafiltration, but that’s only possible if there are only a few proteins to start with, which may be sufficient for some viruses. Chromatography is a capital intensive and relatively slow process.

I missed an important possibility here.

> Precipitation and differential solubilization

> In bulk protein purification, a common first step to isolate proteins is precipitation with ammonium sulfate (NH4)2SO4. This is performed by adding increasing amounts of ammonium sulfate and collecting the different fractions of precipitated protein. Subsequently, ammonium sulfate can be removed using dialysis. During the ammonium sulfate precipitation step, hydrophobic groups present on the proteins are exposed to the atmosphere, attracting other hydrophobic groups; the result is formation of an aggregate of hydrophobic components. In this case, the protein precipitate will typically be visible to the naked eye. One advantage of this method is that it can be performed inexpensively, even with very large volumes.

I’ve studied flocculation as part of waste water treatment (both human and mining waste). I deserve censure for not seeing this as an important step in vaccine production. By keeping hydrophobic groups away from the surface of a floc, you minimise the adverse effect of the binding of hydrophobic protein components to the human immune system, streamlining the process. This isn’t absolutely necessary because the human immune system doesn’t bind to hydrophobic components well in the first place, but it may help.

> The first proteins to be purified are water-soluble proteins. Purification of integral membrane proteins requires disruption of the cell membrane in order to isolate any one particular protein from others that are in the same membrane compartment. Milder detergents such as Triton X-100 or CHAPS can be used to retain the protein’s native conformation during complete purification.

Discard the water soluble components – these are not virus surface proteins. Also, ssRNA is discarded as water soluble.

You actually purify proteins somewhat in bulk by this method. Nice.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

The most difficult step in dead-virus (and recombinant DNA arthropod) vaccine production is protein purification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_purification

Much as I expected. I’d like to go straight from ultracentrifuge to ultrafiltration, but that’s only possible if there are only a few proteins to start with, which may be sufficient for some viruses. Chromatography is a capital intensive and relatively slow process.

I missed an important possibility here.

> Precipitation and differential solubilization

> In bulk protein purification, a common first step to isolate proteins is precipitation with ammonium sulfate (NH4)2SO4. This is performed by adding increasing amounts of ammonium sulfate and collecting the different fractions of precipitated protein. Subsequently, ammonium sulfate can be removed using dialysis. During the ammonium sulfate precipitation step, hydrophobic groups present on the proteins are exposed to the atmosphere, attracting other hydrophobic groups; the result is formation of an aggregate of hydrophobic components. In this case, the protein precipitate will typically be visible to the naked eye. One advantage of this method is that it can be performed inexpensively, even with very large volumes.

I’ve studied flocculation as part of waste water treatment (both human and mining waste). I deserve censure for not seeing this as an important step in vaccine production. By keeping hydrophobic groups away from the surface of a floc, you minimise the adverse effect of the binding of hydrophobic protein components to the human immune system, streamlining the process. This isn’t absolutely necessary because the human immune (antibody) system doesn’t bind to hydrophobic components well in the first place, but it may help.

> The first proteins to be purified are water-soluble proteins. Purification of integral membrane proteins requires disruption of the cell membrane in order to isolate any one particular protein from others that are in the same membrane compartment. Milder detergents such as Triton X-100 or CHAPS can be used to retain the protein’s native conformation during complete purification.

Discard the water soluble components – these are not virus surface proteins. Also, ssRNA is discarded as water soluble.

You actually purify proteins somewhat in bulk by this method. Nice.

> Choice of a starting material is key to the design of a purification process.

Yes. Remove all human cellular tissue before any protein purification. Unless, and only unless, there are no live viruses in the starting material.

> Sucrose gradient centrifugation — a linear concentration gradient of sugar (typically sucrose, glycerol, or a silica based density gradient media, like Percoll) is generated in a tube such that the highest concentration is on the bottom and lowest on top. Percoll is a trademark owned by GE Healthcare companies. A protein sample is then layered on top of the gradient and spun at high speeds in an ultracentrifuge. This causes heavy macromolecules to migrate towards the bottom of the tube faster than lighter material. A properly designed sucrose gradient will counteract the increasing centrifugal force so the particles move in close proportion to the time they have been in the centrifugal field. Samples separated by these gradients are referred to as “rate zonal” centrifugations. After separating the protein/particles, the gradient is then fractionated and collected.

Another nice purification method. Spike proteins are so much larger than all other virus proteins on coronavirus that they could be separated easily. Good. Especially for boutique vaccine production tailored to a specific coronavirus strain, where we only have to deal with a single shape and size of spike protein.

> If the protein is present in low abundance, or if it has a high value, scientists may use recombinant DNA technology to develop cells that will produce large quantities of the desired protein

That’s the arthropod system for vaccine production, using cells cultured from army worm ovaries

Wikipedia refers to chromatography as “analytical” protein purification. It says “Analytical purification produces a relatively small amount of a protein for a variety of research or analytical purposes, including identification, quantification, and studies of the protein’s structure, post-translational modifications and function. Pepsin and urease were the first proteins purified to the point that they could be crystallized.” Therefore not suitable for vaccine production. But perhaps there are some tricks from chromatography that could be adapted, let’s read on.

> Hydrophobic interaction chromatography media is amphiphilic, with both hydrophobic and hydrophilic regions, allowing for separation of proteins based on their surface hydrophobicity. Target proteins and their product aggregate species tend to have different hydrophobic properties and removing them further purifies the protein of interest.

That could be done even outside chromatography, eg using paraffin wax to capture virus membrane proteins.and reject ssRNA and non-membrane contaminant human cell proteins.

> Affinity Chromatography is a separation technique based upon molecular conformation, which frequently utilizes application specific resins. These resins have ligands attached to their surfaces which are specific for the compounds to be separated. Most frequently, these ligands function in a fashion similar to that of antibody-antigen interactions. This “lock and key” fit between the ligand and its target compound makes it highly specific, frequently generating a single peak, while all else in the sample is unretained.

That’s nice! It makes an easy way to collect pure virus proteins other than spike proteins. Somewhat slow perhaps and requires quite a lot of preparation time, but ultra-pure.

> Concentration by drying.

I should have seen that possibility. As an alternative to concentration by ultrafiltration.

Purity is usually tested using gel electrophoresis. Which is too slow for purification.

I see the SA head health honcho is worried because people aren’t going for testing. Maybe, as it’s testing if you’ve got symptoms, people don’t have symptoms.

buffy said:

I see the SA head health honcho is worried because people aren’t going for testing. Maybe, as it’s testing if you’ve got symptoms, people don’t have symptoms.

Exactly.

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

I see the SA head health honcho is worried because people aren’t going for testing. Maybe, as it’s testing if you’ve got symptoms, people don’t have symptoms.

Exactly.

“South Australian man breaches quarantine while positive with COVID-19

South Australians have been urged to get tested – even without symptoms of coronavirus – after an infected man left quarantine and visited several shops and businesses in Adelaide last Sunday.

The man in his 30s is believed to have caught the virus as a casual contact at the Intensive English Language Institute at Flinders University.”

============================================
Bloody!
============================================

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-29/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid-19-latest/12931566

Michael V said:

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

I see the SA head health honcho is worried because people aren’t going for testing. Maybe, as it’s testing if you’ve got symptoms, people don’t have symptoms.

Exactly.

“South Australian man breaches quarantine while positive with COVID-19

South Australians have been urged to get tested – even without symptoms of coronavirus – after an infected man left quarantine and visited several shops and businesses in Adelaide last Sunday.

The man in his 30s is believed to have caught the virus as a casual contact at the Intensive English Language Institute at Flinders University.”

============================================
Bloody!
============================================

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-29/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid-19-latest/12931566

The government website still says if you’ve got symptoms. As of when I checked a couple of hours ago.

ChrispenEvan said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/11/27/how-dictator-dan-defied-a-dangerous-murdoch-media-and-led-australia-to-covid-victory/

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/11/27/how-dictator-dan-defied-a-dangerous-murdoch-media-and-led-australia-to-covid-victory/

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

LOL, it’s a government, nothing is done quickly.

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/11/27/how-dictator-dan-defied-a-dangerous-murdoch-media-and-led-australia-to-covid-victory/

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

LOL, it’s a government, nothing is done quickly.

sure but compare you know how SA hit the brakes within 48 hours*, could VIC have been wise enough to do that or is it simply that SA learnt from the VIC experience**

*: we argued for 24 hours so yes yes we know it only proves the point that done slowly

**: we accept probably this latter

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

LOL, it’s a government, nothing is done quickly.

sure but compare you know how SA hit the brakes within 48 hours*, could VIC have been wise enough to do that or is it simply that SA learnt from the VIC experience**

*: we argued for 24 hours so yes yes we know it only proves the point that done slowly

**: we accept probably this latter

SA had a lot more data to go on than did Vic. SA was just a couple of weeks ago Vic was a few months. More experience garnered from what worked for other states.

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

LOL, it’s a government, nothing is done quickly.

sure but compare you know how SA hit the brakes within 48 hours*, could VIC have been wise enough to do that or is it simply that SA learnt from the VIC experience**

*: we argued for 24 hours so yes yes we know it only proves the point that done slowly

**: we accept probably this latter

Experience tells.

accept

—
—

so at this stage of the game, just gathering some community sentiment here, what are the Expectations Of The People in regard to this

(also in the context of those SA Hero Doctors and the like)

should we expect the hospital staff to be testing most patients who turn up to hospital with fever / cough / sore throat / breathless, as a default

or would we expect them to be holding back and doing only “known contact” like it was way back

¿

Tau.Neutrino said:

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

Didn’t you just hear? Look at the difference experience taught us between Vic and SA.
So we go from the newest data because this virus is teaching us all the way.

SCIENCE said:

accept

—
—

so at this stage of the game, just gathering some community sentiment here, what are the Expectations Of The People in regard to this

(also in the context of those SA Hero Doctors and the like)

(A) should we expect the hospital staff to be testing most patients who turn up to hospital with fever / cough / sore throat / breathless, as a default

(B) or would we expect them to be holding back and doing only “known contact” like it was way back

¿

test (A)

Tau.Neutrino said:

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

give us a bit of time, we’ll track back to find the prospective claim so that you know we’re being legit’ here, don’t worry we’ll get back to this

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

give us a bit of time, we’ll track back to find the prospective claim so that you know we’re being legit’ here, don’t worry we’ll get back to this

Well, in the beginning; Scomo told us that Australians wouldn’t need to be wearing masks.

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

LOL, it’s a government, nothing is done quickly.

sure but compare you know how SA hit the brakes within 48 hours*, could VIC have been wise enough to do that or is it simply that SA learnt from the VIC experience**

*: we argued for 24 hours so yes yes we know it only proves the point that done slowly

**: we accept probably this latter

^ The latter.

But SA is opening up too quickly. Especially now we know that one person who tested positive, couldn’t give a crap, and went shopping and feeding away from his nominated quarantine place in spite of the rules. So they haven’t yet learnt enough yet. ie – to be very cautious.

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

Didn’t you just hear? Look at the difference experience taught us between Vic and SA.
So we go from the newest data because this virus is teaching us all the way.

I think the lockdown and mask wearing should have started sooner.

Testing of cruise ships and airline passengers should have started sooner.

Will they start these things sooner next time.

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

LOL, it’s a government, nothing is done quickly.

sure but compare you know how SA hit the brakes within 48 hours*, could VIC have been wise enough to do that or is it simply that SA learnt from the VIC experience**

*: we argued for 24 hours so yes yes we know it only proves the point that done slowly

**: we accept probably this latter

^ The latter.

But SA is opening up too quickly. Especially now we know that one person who tested positive, couldn’t give a crap, and went shopping and feeding away from his nominated quarantine place in spite of the rules. So they haven’t yet learnt enough yet. ie – to be very cautious.

Indeed. Err on the side of caution. People are already moving about between states for work. Casual workers are called for on farms.

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

Didn’t you just hear? Look at the difference experience taught us between Vic and SA.
So we go from the newest data because this virus is teaching us all the way.

I think the lockdown and mask wearing should have started sooner.

Testing of cruise ships and airline passengers should have started sooner.

Will they start these things sooner next time.

In hindsight we can only agree that we should have started earlier.

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

accept

—
—

so at this stage of the game, just gathering some community sentiment here, what are the Expectations Of The People in regard to this

(also in the context of those SA Hero Doctors and the like)

(A) should we expect the hospital staff to be testing most patients who turn up to hospital with fever / cough / sore throat / breathless, as a default

(B) or would we expect them to be holding back and doing only “known contact” like it was way back

¿

test (A)

Actually, I reckon test all patients. Symptoms or not.

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

accept

—
—

so at this stage of the game, just gathering some community sentiment here, what are the Expectations Of The People in regard to this

(also in the context of those SA Hero Doctors and the like)

(A) should we expect the hospital staff to be testing most patients who turn up to hospital with fever / cough / sore throat / breathless, as a default

(B) or would we expect them to be holding back and doing only “known contact” like it was way back

¿

test (A)

Actually, I reckon test all patients. Symptoms or not.

hear hear.

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

accept

—
—

so at this stage of the game, just gathering some community sentiment here, what are the Expectations Of The People in regard to this

(also in the context of those SA Hero Doctors and the like)

(A) should we expect the hospital staff to be testing most patients who turn up to hospital with fever / cough / sore throat / breathless, as a default

(B) or would we expect them to be holding back and doing only “known contact” like it was way back

¿

test (A)

Actually, I reckon test all patients. Symptoms or not.

spoken like A True Western Australian 😉

possibly get some push back on that if they went in with a broken ankle for example

then again we suppose they do screen ICUs for things like multi resistant super bugs so there could be a suitable balance in there

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

test (A)

Actually, I reckon test all patients. Symptoms or not.

spoken like A True Western Australian 😉

possibly get some push back on that if they went in with a broken ankle for example

then again we suppose they do screen ICUs for things like multi resistant super bugs so there could be a suitable balance in there

Bugger the pushback.

Test everyone that goes in for anything. Even supporters – family and friends etc.

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

Actually, I reckon test all patients. Symptoms or not.

spoken like A True Western Australian 😉

possibly get some push back on that if they went in with a broken ankle for example

then again we suppose they do screen ICUs for things like multi resistant super bugs so there could be a suitable balance in there

Bugger the pushback.

Test everyone that goes in for anything. Even supporters – family and friends etc.

I had to pressure Mrs rb to get a test. She insisted that it was “only a really bad head cold”.

Told her that the snotty kid wiping a snail trail on his bare arm was likely the cause of the infection
but you aren’t moving it from one school to another and they won’t let you so you may as well be able to assure all that you haven’t picked up the deadly virus.

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/11/27/how-dictator-dan-defied-a-dangerous-murdoch-media-and-led-australia-to-covid-victory/

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

I’m of the impression there was significant political wrangling behind the scenes, and indeed the only thing that put us into the state of severe restriction was a step-change in the involvement from the heads of Police, Health, and Emergency. You might recall the declaration of a State of Disaster, which enabled the Police to enforce a Curfew?

Tau.Neutrino said:

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

I think we got it pretty right in the first response, but the slow reaction to the second wave in Vic hurt us very badly. The response to that should have been a lot earlier and harder. You might dismiss this as hindsight, but it was obvious very early on that people were not responding to the easing of the first restrictions appropriately.

There seems to be a lot of muddling going on.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/sa-health-authorities-defend-man-over-coronavirus-quarantine/12933326

sarahs mum said:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2020/nov/30/politics-canberra-news-live-scott-morrison-parliament-question-time-coronavirus-covid-emissions-2020

—there is consensus. Albanese and Wong say so.

buffy said:

There seems to be a lot of muddling going on.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/sa-health-authorities-defend-man-over-coronavirus-quarantine/12933326

someone close to the Coalition Corruption Inner Circle then you reckon

mollwollfumble said:

I’d be interested to know if the number of tests for ‘flu is up to the usual level or not. I can’t see anything about it here. There has been so much testing for COVID-19, it seems possible testing for ‘flu may have been a bit sidelined. I don’t know if capacity for testing has been stretched and had to be rationalized at all. Here is a Department of Health page:

https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/cda-surveil-ozflu-flucurr.htm

From there (with my emphasis):

It is important to note that due to the COVID-19 epidemic in Australia, data reported from the various influenza surveillance systems may not represent an accurate reflection of influenza activity. Results should be interpreted with caution, especially where comparisons are made to previous influenza seasons. Interpretation of 2020 influenza activity data should take into account, but are not limited to, the impact of social distancing measures, likely changes in health seeking behaviour of the community including access to alternative streams of acute respiratory infection specific health services, and focussed testing for COVID-19 response activities. Current COVID-19 related public health measures and the community’s adherence to public health messages are also likely having an effect on transmission of acute respiratory infections, including influenza.

You might also find this interesting. John Ionnidis is generally a pretty reliable researcher and relatively easy to read.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13423

“Global perspective of COVID‐19 epidemiology for a full‐cycle pandemic”

Cut from the Abstract:

“Global infection fatality rate is 0.15‐0.20% (0.03‐0.04% in those <70 years), with large variability across locations with different age‐structure, institutionalization rates, socioeconomic inequalities, population‐level clinical risk profile, public health measures, and health care”

unfortunately for y’al’, we’re back

and point out again

following and reflecting previous discussions that have covered the same matter

that influenza testing statistics are readily publicly available for at least some meaningful jurisdictions even if not absolutely all jurisdictions

for example

so knock yourselves out

buffy said:

You might also find this interesting. John Ionnidis is generally a pretty reliable researcher and relatively easy to read.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13423

“Global perspective of COVID‐19 epidemiology for a full‐cycle pandemic”

Cut from the Abstract:

“Global infection fatality rate is 0.15‐0.20% (0.03‐0.04% in those <70 years), with large variability across locations with different age‐structure, institutionalization rates, socioeconomic inequalities, population‐level clinical risk profile, public health measures, and health care”

Reading the whole paper now. This is Very Interesting:

>>Moreover, multiple studies have identified pre‐existing cellular immunity that may be effective against SARS‐CoV‐2 in 20%‐50% of participant samples.55-57 If so, the proportion of people who need to be infected to reach herd immunity may be much lower than originally estimated. <<

SCIENCE said:

unfortunately for y’al’, we’re back

and point out again

following and reflecting previous discussions that have covered the same matter

that influenza testing statistics are readily publicly available for at least some meaningful jurisdictions even if not absolutely all jurisdictions

for example

so knock yourselves out

Source please. That seems to be NSW. Looking for all states, and/or Australia wide.

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

unfortunately for y’al’, we’re back

and point out again

following and reflecting previous discussions that have covered the same matter

that influenza testing statistics are readily publicly available for at least some meaningful jurisdictions even if not absolutely all jurisdictions

for example

so knock yourselves out

Source please. That seems to be NSW. Looking for all states, and/or Australia wide.

If ‘flu testing is not being neglected, that’s fine.

buffy said:

buffy said:

You might also find this interesting. John Ionnidis is generally a pretty reliable researcher and relatively easy to read.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13423

“Global perspective of COVID‐19 epidemiology for a full‐cycle pandemic”

Cut from the Abstract:

“Global infection fatality rate is 0.15‐0.20% (0.03‐0.04% in those <70 years), with large variability across locations with different age‐structure, institutionalization rates, socioeconomic inequalities, population‐level clinical risk profile, public health measures, and health care”

Reading the whole paper now. This is Very Interesting:

>>Moreover, multiple studies have identified pre‐existing cellular immunity that may be effective against SARS‐CoV‐2 in 20%‐50% of participant samples.55-57 If so, the proportion of people who need to be infected to reach herd immunity may be much lower than originally estimated. <<

other studies demonstrate that preexisting “immunity” is ineffective,

and flock immunity remains a vaccination-immunisation goal rather than an argument for getting people infected

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

unfortunately for y’al’, we’re back

and point out again

following and reflecting previous discussions that have covered the same matter

that influenza testing statistics are readily publicly available for at least some meaningful jurisdictions even if not absolutely all jurisdictions

for example

so knock yourselves out

Source please. That seems to be NSW. Looking for all states, and/or Australia wide.

source already provided and unless NSW is particularly exceptional then that should be covered by at least some meaningful jurisdictions even if not absolutely all jurisdictions

buffy said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

unfortunately for y’al’, we’re back

and point out again

following and reflecting previous discussions that have covered the same matter

that influenza testing statistics are readily publicly available for at least some meaningful jurisdictions even if not absolutely all jurisdictions

for example

so knock yourselves out

Source please. That seems to be NSW. Looking for all states, and/or Australia wide.

If ‘flu testing is not being neglected, that’s fine.

unless NSW is particularly exceptional, the results of the elimination-but-pretend-we-are-not-elimination NSW experiment would suggest that even if ‘flu’ testing is dumped, things under COVID-19 precautions should be just fine

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

buffy said:

Source please. That seems to be NSW. Looking for all states, and/or Australia wide.

If ‘flu testing is not being neglected, that’s fine.

unless NSW is particularly exceptional, the results of the elimination-but-pretend-we-are-not-elimination NSW experiment would suggest that even if ‘flu’ testing is dumped, things under COVID-19 precautions should be just fine

What?

I can find figures for notified ‘flu cases for Victoria, but nothing like that graph for actual tests done for NSW.

I can find notified cases nationally: 2020 to date: 21,259,
cf 2019: 313,463; 2018: 58,873; 2017: 251,264; 2016: 90,886;
……..
2013: 28,303
…and I suspect testing was not done so much prior to that

One of my favourite places…hypochondriac’s dream page:

http://www9.health.gov.au/cda/source/rpt_2.cfm

buffy said:

I can find figures for notified ‘flu cases for Victoria, but nothing like that graph for actual tests done for NSW.

I can find notified cases nationally: 2020 to date: 21,259,
cf 2019: 313,463; 2018: 58,873; 2017: 251,264; 2016: 90,886;
……..
2013: 28,303
…and I suspect testing was not done so much prior to that

One of my favourite places…hypochondriac’s dream page:

http://www9.health.gov.au/cda/source/rpt_2.cfm

Oh, that’s messy

2020 to date: 21,259,
cf 2019: 313,463;
2018: 58,873;
2017: 251,264;
2016: 90,886;
……..
2013: 28,303

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

If ‘flu testing is not being neglected, that’s fine.

unless NSW is particularly exceptional, the results of the elimination-but-pretend-we-are-not-elimination NSW experiment would suggest that even if ‘flu’ testing is dumped, things under COVID-19 precautions should be just fine

What?

oh, nothing

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/11/27/how-dictator-dan-defied-a-dangerous-murdoch-media-and-led-australia-to-covid-victory/

so aside from all the fankidding, can someone explain

new cases spiking upwards from 45 on 28 June to 254 on 3 July, before hitting a peak of 721 on 30 July

implemented a hard lockdown, however – as he did on 7 July when new daily cases hit 169 – and enforced mandatory mask -wearing – as he did on 19 July

how it took that long to roll out the appropriate response

we’re satisfied if the answer is “because federal fuck up got in the way” but it better be answered for

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

give us a bit of time, we’ll track back to find the prospective claim so that you know we’re being legit’ here, don’t worry we’ll get back to this

as promised here we go, below are the local voices on the abovementioned matter prior to 28 June as cited

https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/13784/
https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/13811/

there are some interesting and stupid quotes like

Dr Gibney. “If we wanted elimination, we would have had to keep the very strict lockdown measures in place for several weeks longer,” she said.

and now for the pertinent points

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-20/victoria-coronavirus-numbers-increase-again-with-more-new-cases/12376316

Victoria will bring back tougher coronavirus restrictions, limiting gatherings in homes to five people from Monday, in a bid to address a recent increase in case numbers.

He said the virus had not yet gotten away from authorities in Victoria, despite it being the fourth day in a row with a double digit rise in cases.

Date: 17/06/2020 20:56:32 “ Suppression Without Eradication Strategy Hard At Work

23 JunJune 2020 at 3:11am https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-23/fears-grow-for-residents-in-melbourne-coronavirus-hotspots/12380574

Date: 23/06/2020 14:11:22 going for disease elimination-eradication and achieving it is the best strategy

Date: 24/06/2020 22:52:44 health officials “worried”. As they should be.

Date: 27/06/2020 03:47:47 and what have we been telling you

this current spike is as bad as the initial one in late March early April — so if they don’t hurry up and clean it up, then we will need to return to what worked back in April, at least whatever level of restrictions we had then

“The fact that we’re not seeing a major escalation in numbers is reassuring and we are very confident that the Victorian response … is good, strong and appropriate,” Dr Murphy said.

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

When should have lockdown started ?

When should have wearing masks and social distancing started ?

give us a bit of time, we’ll track back to find the prospective claim so that you know we’re being legit’ here, don’t worry we’ll get back to this

as promised here we go, below are the local voices on the abovementioned matter

prior to 3 July as cited

Date: 2/07/2020 15:19:40 Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton says “there is absolutely a possibility, an expectation” that more people will die

In March: “no evidence of transmission from students, shut the schools, don’t reopen them until next millennium”.
In July: “evidence of transmission from students, everyone is on holiday, but make sure you come back after visiting your family cluster”.
Fucking what ¿

prior to 7 July as cited

Date: 4/07/2020 17:23:01 when if ever do we think going in half arsed will work

Date: 4/07/2020 22:01:13 this is going to become another Singapore migrant worker hostel disaster

on 7 July because it’s important

A Case In Point For Missing The Boat

Daniel Andrews has announced a lockdown of metropolitan Melbourne as the state records its largest daily increase

—

so there you go, fortunately we were not very specific in stating “Shut Your Shit Now” so the clearest suggestion appears to be 3 days earlier than when it actually happened

that would correspond to 1 doubling time, id est a reduction in the total subsequent cases by a factor of 2

on the other hand if you consider the warning “if they don’t hurry up and clean it up, then we will need to return” to be essentially a call for that return, then that would be 3.33 doubling times, or a factor of 10

wearing masks should have started on the realisation that there was a respiratory pandemic

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/01/the-worst-year-domestic-violence-soars-in-australia-during-covid-19

WORLD NEWS: Vietnam records first locally transmitted case in three months

Vietnam has recorded its first locally transmitted case of coronavirus in nearly three months.

The 32-year-old man is related to a flight attendant who had tested positive after returning from Japan two weeks ago.

The country’s health minister has now ordered provinces and state agencies to tighten screening, controls and contact tracing efforts.

Vietnam has been one of the most successful countries in curbing the spread of the virus, recording just 1,347 cases of the virus among a population of more than 95 million people.

America’s top infectious diseases expert, Dr Anthony Fauci, says the real impact of mass travel during Thanksgiving on coronavirus cases will become apparent in two to three weeks.

In a conversation with Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Doctor Fauci said America’s baseline level of infections being between one or two hundred thousand cases a day is extraordinary, and does not bode well.

He said America is not in a good place in regards to the virus.

“So because of the travel and people congregating for meals, et cetera, you don’t see any difference for a day, two, three, five days,” Dr Fauci said.

“You see the difference two or three weeks from now, which would put it right at the time that people would be traveling for Christmas. So all things considered, we’re not in a good place.”

***

Fauci “in conversation” with Zuck? Facebook’s listening and now they’ll be getting ads for masks.

Divine Angel said:

WORLD NEWS: Vietnam records first locally transmitted case in three months

Vietnam has recorded its first locally transmitted case of coronavirus in nearly three months.

The 32-year-old man is related to a flight attendant who had tested positive after returning from Japan two weeks ago.

The country’s health minister has now ordered provinces and state agencies to tighten screening, controls and contact tracing efforts.

Vietnam has been one of the most successful countries in curbing the spread of the virus, recording just 1,347 cases of the virus among a population of more than 95 million people.

We Blame CHINA Wait We Mean JAPAN

SCIENCE said:

I had to look up Julia Hartley-Brewer. A former Guardian hack.

SCIENCE said:

Since when was the Swedish flag a symbol of freedom?

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

Since when was the Swedish flag a symbol of freedom?

herd immunity.

COVID-19 Causing Proliferation Of Hippies Who Are Harming Economic Growth By Consuming Less

https://www.abc.net.au/life/meet-the-family-who-are-happier-living-with-less/12863428

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/daniel-andrews-urges-coronavirus-testing-after-colac-wastewater/12942294

I’m fairly gobsmacked at the sensitivity of these tests.

sibeen said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/daniel-andrews-urges-coronavirus-testing-after-colac-wastewater/12942294

I’m fairly gobsmacked at the sensitivity of these tests.

me too…

First Italy, then France and now the US had COVID-19 last year.

Hmmm.

https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-may-have-been-in-us-by-december-2019

===========================================================

Also: one of maybe more mechanisms to get COVID-19 into the brain.

https://www.sciencealert.com/sars-cov-2-may-invade-the-brain-through-the-nerves-of-our-noses

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

Dark Orange said:

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

I keep on saying that. I don’t understand how a country can turn themselves inside out to ensure 9/11 didn’t happen again. And then Covid. US deaths to date. 270,669.

Dark Orange said:

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

yeah but COVID has had several months to do this… 9/11 did it in a couple of hours.

Dark Orange said:

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

Bit of a false equivalence. I mean it’s not like they’re going to have those sort of covid deaths every day.

Arts said:

Dark Orange said:

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

yeah but COVID has had several months to do this… 9/11 did it in a couple of hours.

oh I see what you mean.. now.. I thought that number was kind of low… anyhow.. covid takes a couple of days to kill someone I hear so the point still stands.

sibeen said:

Dark Orange said:

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

Bit of a false equivalence. I mean it’s not like they’re going to have those sort of covid deaths every day.

They have just had Thanksgiving. Or as my sister referred to it..the monster superspreader holiday.

buffy said:

sibeen said:

Dark Orange said:

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

Bit of a false equivalence. I mean it’s not like they’re going to have those sort of covid deaths every day.

They have just had Thanksgiving. Or as my sister referred to it..the monster superspreader holiday.

It just occurred to me…Black Friday may gain a new meaning for them this year.

buffy said:

sibeen said:

Dark Orange said:

Deaths from Covid in the US 1st December – 2,614
Deaths from 9/11 – 2,606

Bit of a false equivalence. I mean it’s not like they’re going to have those sort of covid deaths every day.

They have just had Thanksgiving. Or as my sister referred to it..the monster superspreader holiday.

plus they’ve got Christmas coming up, with all the crowded shopping malls and piss-ups in the next week or three.

buffy said:

buffy said:

sibeen said:

Bit of a false equivalence. I mean it’s not like they’re going to have those sort of covid deaths every day.

They have just had Thanksgiving. Or as my sister referred to it..the monster superspreader holiday.

It just occurred to me…Black Friday may gain a new meaning for them this year.

Look at Buffy, throwing some dark humour shade… nice.

Arts said:

buffy said:

buffy said:

They have just had Thanksgiving. Or as my sister referred to it..the monster superspreader holiday.

It just occurred to me…Black Friday may gain a new meaning for them this year.

Look at Buffy, throwing some dark humour shade… nice.

Don’t forget I’ve lived with an ambo since 1981…they have to cope somehow. And it rubs off. My receptionist was an ambulance wife too and we had to be careful in front of patients at times that we didn’t slip into the black part of life.

buffy said:

Arts said:

buffy said:

It just occurred to me…Black Friday may gain a new meaning for them this year.

Look at Buffy, throwing some dark humour shade… nice.

Don’t forget I’ve lived with an ambo since 1981…they have to cope somehow. And it rubs off. My receptionist was an ambulance wife too and we had to be careful in front of patients at times that we didn’t slip into the black part of life.

it’s practically all I do… because you can’t read some of this stuff without having a way to cope with the information… oh, sure, it’s been suggested, once or twice, that I have a lack of empathy and inability to form emotional attachments to things, but those people won’t be bothering us with their armchair psychology anymore…

buffy said:

buffy said:

sibeen said:

Bit of a false equivalence. I mean it’s not like they’re going to have those sort of covid deaths every day.

They have just had Thanksgiving. Or as my sister referred to it..the monster superspreader holiday.

It just occurred to me…Black Friday may gain a new meaning for them this year.

The time between Thanksgiving and Christmas is such that the hospitals will be full of dying people for Christmas if worse comes to worse.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/no-charges-against-pizza-bar-worker-over-coronavirus-lockdown/12941662

Well that all fell in a hole, didn’t it.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/no-charges-against-pizza-bar-worker-over-coronavirus-lockdown/12941662

Well that all fell in a hole, didn’t it.

“However, he said some information the State Government had put out about him was “not fair, accurate or complete”.”

Pot, kettle. Black.

Dark Orange said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/no-charges-against-pizza-bar-worker-over-coronavirus-lockdown/12941662

Well that all fell in a hole, didn’t it.

“However, he said some information the State Government had put out about him was “not fair, accurate or complete”.”

Pot, kettle. Black.

Well, apparently the government was prepared to give information to the press, but not the police. Odd.

buffy said:

Dark Orange said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/no-charges-against-pizza-bar-worker-over-coronavirus-lockdown/12941662

Well that all fell in a hole, didn’t it.

“However, he said some information the State Government had put out about him was “not fair, accurate or complete”.”

Pot, kettle. Black.

Well, apparently the government was prepared to give information to the press, but not the police. Odd.

The press cannot send someone to jail, they can only make the person’s life miserable and call for the person to be beaten up. The police can do all three.

But seriously, there is the problem of people withholding information from the contact tracers if they know that there is no right of privacy. Neither situation is ideal, either lying or withholding, but you’d have to lean towards getting the best public health outcomes rather than the law and order side of it.

Arts said:

buffy said:

Arts said:

Look at Buffy, throwing some dark humour shade… nice.

Don’t forget I’ve lived with an ambo since 1981…they have to cope somehow. And it rubs off. My receptionist was an ambulance wife too and we had to be careful in front of patients at times that we didn’t slip into the black part of life.

it’s practically all I do… because you can’t read some of this stuff without having a way to cope with the information… oh, sure, it’s been suggested, once or twice, that I have a lack of empathy and inability to form emotional attachments to things, but those people won’t be bothering us with their armchair psychology anymore…

ROFL

Michael V said:

First Italy, then France and now the US had COVID-19 last year.

Hmmm.

https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-may-have-been-in-us-by-december-2019

===========================================================

Also: one of maybe more mechanisms to get COVID-19 into the brain.

https://www.sciencealert.com/sars-cov-2-may-invade-the-brain-through-the-nerves-of-our-noses

And even if these were true COVID-19 infections, the study cannot determine where the participants acquired the infection – it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there, Rutherford noted. (The current study did not have information on if and where the donors had travelled.)

—

Aren’t there conditions like waiting for a bit after you’ve been out of the country before donating (yes yes we know in USSA they donate for cash so it’s different).

or

“it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there” or were recently infected in the USSA and then travelled to China

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

First Italy, then France and now the US had COVID-19 last year.

Hmmm.

https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-may-have-been-in-us-by-december-2019

===========================================================

Also: one of maybe more mechanisms to get COVID-19 into the brain.

https://www.sciencealert.com/sars-cov-2-may-invade-the-brain-through-the-nerves-of-our-noses

And even if these were true COVID-19 infections, the study cannot determine where the participants acquired the infection – it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there, Rutherford noted. (The current study did not have information on if and where the donors had travelled.)

—

Aren’t there conditions like waiting for a bit after you’ve been out of the country before donating (yes yes we know in USSA they donate for cash so it’s different).

or

“it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there” or were recently infected in the USSA and then travelled to China

Or, did it arise in mink in Europe, and a Chinese tourist took it back to Wuhan?

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

First Italy, then France and now the US had COVID-19 last year.

Hmmm.

https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-may-have-been-in-us-by-december-2019

===========================================================

Also: one of maybe more mechanisms to get COVID-19 into the brain.

https://www.sciencealert.com/sars-cov-2-may-invade-the-brain-through-the-nerves-of-our-noses

And even if these were true COVID-19 infections, the study cannot determine where the participants acquired the infection – it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there, Rutherford noted. (The current study did not have information on if and where the donors had travelled.)

—

Aren’t there conditions like waiting for a bit after you’ve been out of the country before donating (yes yes we know in USSA they donate for cash so it’s different).

or

“it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there” or were recently infected in the USSA and then travelled to China

Or, did it arise in mink in Europe, and a Chinese tourist took it back to Wuhan?

fair

we guess some of it comes back to, if there’s an expectation that you’ll be persecuted for being honest, then why tell the authorities you work at a pizza shop world you had a problem in your fish market

and

if there’s someone you can point the finger at for being the most obvious source of spreading disaster, why bother to try to control a pandemic yourself when you can just demand the “obvious source” pay for all your damage*

*: who here hasn’t dinged their car and then let the insurance cover it next time someone else runs up its rear and worsens the damage (yes yes we know not everyone, but hey VN and NZ and even AU cleared their end of the infection right)

if you’re able you may forgive us for being cynical of the whole finger pointing exercise since the beginning of pandemic fun as in “fine go ahead investigate by all means but don’t let it be your key strategy to arrest the actual disease, or really even take away from genuine control efforts”

COVID patient with sepsis makes ‘remarkable’ recovery following megadose of vitamin C

While the result seems promising for the seriously ill Melbourne patient, and the animal studies, experts said previous studies using large doses of vitamin C to treat sepsis have been mixed.

Professor Simon Finfer, from the George Institute for Global Health, has been researching sepsis for more than 25 years.

“We have seen so many treatments that seem to work in animal models and case reports but haven’t proven effective in big studies,” he said.

“The pharmaceutical industry has spent $10 billion trying to find a magic bullet for sepsis.”

—

¡ It’s The Monosodium Ascorbate Controversy Again !

SCIENCE said:

COVID patient with sepsis makes ‘remarkable’ recovery following megadose of vitamin C

While the result seems promising for the seriously ill Melbourne patient, and the animal studies, experts said previous studies using large doses of vitamin C to treat sepsis have been mixed.

Professor Simon Finfer, from the George Institute for Global Health, has been researching sepsis for more than 25 years.

“We have seen so many treatments that seem to work in animal models and case reports but haven’t proven effective in big studies,” he said.

“The pharmaceutical industry has spent $10 billion trying to find a magic bullet for sepsis.”

—

¡ It’s The Monosodium Ascorbate Controversy Again !

Linus will be laughing in his grave.

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

COVID patient with sepsis makes ‘remarkable’ recovery following megadose of vitamin C

While the result seems promising for the seriously ill Melbourne patient, and the animal studies, experts said previous studies using large doses of vitamin C to treat sepsis have been mixed.

Professor Simon Finfer, from the George Institute for Global Health, has been researching sepsis for more than 25 years.

“We have seen so many treatments that seem to work in animal models and case reports but haven’t proven effective in big studies,” he said.

“The pharmaceutical industry has spent $10 billion trying to find a magic bullet for sepsis.”

—

¡ It’s The Monosodium Ascorbate Controversy Again !

Linus will be laughing in his grave.

That’s apauling.

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

And even if these were true COVID-19 infections, the study cannot determine where the participants acquired the infection – it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there, Rutherford noted. (The current study did not have information on if and where the donors had travelled.)

—

Aren’t there conditions like waiting for a bit after you’ve been out of the country before donating (yes yes we know in USSA they donate for cash so it’s different).

or

“it’s possible that some blood donors in the study had recently travelled to China and were infected there” or were recently infected in the USSA and then travelled to China

Or, did it arise in mink in Europe, and a Chinese tourist took it back to Wuhan?

fair

we guess some of it comes back to, if there’s an expectation that you’ll be persecuted for being honest, then why tell the authorities you work at a pizza shop world you had a problem in your fish market

and

if there’s someone you can point the finger at for being the most obvious source of spreading disaster, why bother to try to control a pandemic yourself when you can just demand the “obvious source” pay for all your damage*

*: who here hasn’t dinged their car and then let the insurance cover it next time someone else runs up its rear and worsens the damage (yes yes we know not everyone, but hey VN and NZ and even AU cleared their end of the infection right)

if you’re able you may forgive us for being cynical of the whole finger pointing exercise since the beginning of pandemic fun as in “fine go ahead investigate by all means but don’t let it be your key strategy to arrest the actual disease, or really even take away from genuine control efforts”

Finger-pointing does nobody any good in this situation. In fact Scummo’s finger-pointing has done considerable harm (as China points back and says “Stop it!”).

SCIENCE said:

COVID patient with sepsis makes ‘remarkable’ recovery following megadose of vitamin C

While the result seems promising for the seriously ill Melbourne patient, and the animal studies, experts said previous studies using large doses of vitamin C to treat sepsis have been mixed.

Professor Simon Finfer, from the George Institute for Global Health, has been researching sepsis for more than 25 years.

“We have seen so many treatments that seem to work in animal models and case reports but haven’t proven effective in big studies,” he said.

“The pharmaceutical industry has spent $10 billion trying to find a magic bullet for sepsis.”

—

¡ It’s The Monosodium Ascorbate Controversy Again !

Where are the physicists?

Linus Pauling has left…

btm said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

COVID patient with sepsis makes ‘remarkable’ recovery following megadose of vitamin C

While the result seems promising for the seriously ill Melbourne patient, and the animal studies, experts said previous studies using large doses of vitamin C to treat sepsis have been mixed.

Professor Simon Finfer, from the George Institute for Global Health, has been researching sepsis for more than 25 years.

“We have seen so many treatments that seem to work in animal models and case reports but haven’t proven effective in big studies,” he said.

“The pharmaceutical industry has spent $10 billion trying to find a magic bullet for sepsis.”

—

¡ It’s The Monosodium Ascorbate Controversy Again !

Linus will be laughing in his grave.

That’s apauling.

LOLOLOL

Oh-oh…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/wa-government-seeks-advice-on-border-after-nsw-coronavirus-case/12945918

I thought NSW had the quarantine hotels thing sorted.

buffy said:

Oh-oh…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/wa-government-seeks-advice-on-border-after-nsw-coronavirus-case/12945918

I thought NSW had the quarantine hotels thing sorted.

So Scummo said. “The Gold Standard” that Gladys had implemented.

This occurrence is a real bummer.

Michael V said:

buffy said:

Oh-oh…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/wa-government-seeks-advice-on-border-after-nsw-coronavirus-case/12945918

I thought NSW had the quarantine hotels thing sorted.

So Scummo said. “The Gold Standard” that Gladys had implemented.

This occurrence is a real bummer.

maybe he can show some Real Leadership and up the legitimate advocacy rhetoric against other countries in the world that want to keep the pandemic going in the name of The Economy Must Grow instead of posturing about caricatures

maybe … yeah right

I see USA set a new personal worst for deaths/day yesterday, and 2nd worst for new cases (over 200,000).

The Rev Dodgson said:

I see USA set a new personal worst for deaths/day yesterday, and 2nd worst for new cases (over 200,000).

how did they successfully reduce the new cases

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

buffy said:

Oh-oh…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/wa-government-seeks-advice-on-border-after-nsw-coronavirus-case/12945918

I thought NSW had the quarantine hotels thing sorted.

So Scummo said. “The Gold Standard” that Gladys had implemented.

This occurrence is a real bummer.

maybe he can show some Real Leadership and up the legitimate advocacy rhetoric against other countries in the world that want to keep the pandemic going in the name of The Economy Must Grow instead of posturing about caricatures

maybe … yeah right

NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant said the worker presented for a test after noticing some minor symptoms, including fatigue.

Dr Chant said the worker did not have direct contact with infected overseas quarantine patients.

“So at the moment there isn’t a smoking gun in terms of how we would say the transmission event happened,” she said.

“And that’s why we’re actually ensuring that there may be other workers as an intermediary, and hence the importance of immediately getting tested.”

—

also we could say good things about people who take their responsibility seriously and get tested

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I see USA set a new personal worst for deaths/day yesterday, and 2nd worst for new cases (over 200,000).

how did they successfully reduce the new cases

Cunning application of the principle of random variation, probably.

Divine Angel said:

:)

Divine Angel said:

The worry perhaps is it’s rushed out to restart the economy and not tested as thoroughly as it should.
Mind you reading about some previous vaccines they weren’t entirely safe either

Divine Angel said:

:)

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

The worry perhaps is it’s rushed out to restart the economy and not tested as thoroughly as it should.
Mind you reading about some previous vaccines they weren’t entirely safe either

Or, look what happens when all the resources they need to make a vaccine are thrown at them…

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I see USA set a new personal worst for deaths/day yesterday, and 2nd worst for new cases (over 200,000).

how did they successfully reduce the new cases

Well aren’t you the Polyanna

Divine Angel said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

The worry perhaps is it’s rushed out to restart the economy and not tested as thoroughly as it should.
Mind you reading about some previous vaccines they weren’t entirely safe either

Or, look what happens when all the resources they need to make a vaccine are thrown at them…

That’s quite likely

Divine Angel said:

I was thinking that sort of thing to prove its safe (relatively speaking) the leaders take it first

Divine Angel said:

Boris Johnson “At least its not shagging a pig”

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

I was thinking that sort of thing to prove its safe (relatively speaking) the leaders take it first

I think Ivanka Trump said she would get vaccinated on TV too…

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

The worry perhaps is it’s rushed out to restart the economy and not tested as thoroughly as it should.
Mind you reading about some previous vaccines they weren’t entirely safe either

https://theconversation.com/less-than-a-year-to-develop-a-covid-vaccine-heres-why-you-shouldnt-be-alarmed-150414

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

I was thinking that sort of thing to prove its safe (relatively speaking) the leaders take it first

Leaders taking it first is not proof it is safe or even relatively safe.

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

Boris Johnson “At least its not shagging a pig”

That is similar to my first thought too…

Divine Angel said:

He’s already had the Covids, so he doesn’t need it.

Secondly, it seems a bit rushed. I thought this wasn’t going to be happening for a few months yet, second quarter of 2021 and all that. Smaks of political desperation…

furious said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

I was thinking that sort of thing to prove its safe (relatively speaking) the leaders take it first

I think Ivanka Trump said she would get vaccinated on TV too…

For that matter, so did Obama:

Obama Says He Will Get Safe COVID-19 Vaccine, Maybe On TV

esselte said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

I was thinking that sort of thing to prove its safe (relatively speaking) the leaders take it first

Leaders taking it first is not proof it is safe or even relatively safe.

spot on, it hasn’t been tested on reptilians!

furious said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

Boris Johnson “At least its not shagging a pig”

That is similar to my first thought too…

I feel better I’m not completely deranged

ChrispenEvan said:

esselte said:

Cymek said:

I was thinking that sort of thing to prove its safe (relatively speaking) the leaders take it first

Leaders taking it first is not proof it is safe or even relatively safe.

spot on, it hasn’t been tested on reptilians!

That is true but I suppose if they take it first and don’t wait to see how the general population react before getting it someone shows they will step up

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

esselte said:

Leaders taking it first is not proof it is safe or even relatively safe.

spot on, it hasn’t been tested on reptilians!

That is true but I suppose if they take it first and don’t wait to see how the general population react before getting it someone shows they will step up

I don’t see how getting injected live on tv really proves anything. The syringe could be full of placebo, for all we know…

furious said:

Cymek said:

ChrispenEvan said:

spot on, it hasn’t been tested on reptilians!

That is true but I suppose if they take it first and don’t wait to see how the general population react before getting it someone shows they will step up

I don’t see how getting injected live on tv really proves anything. The syringe could be full of placebo, for all we know…

^

not like those politicians there have ever spouted untruth

Divine Angel said:

That’s a nice story.

also if those medical experts really do weigh up risks and benefits then surely a rush elsewhere should not inspire panic buying here

the advantage of having good pandemic control is that you can actually be confident that the risk of disease is low, so it should make sense to wait until the vaccine stuff is studied for adverse effects for longer

the advantage of other shithole countries like US UK SE being massive failures is that for them the risk benefit analysis might favour the vaccine so we can let them try it first and do that study before we take it ourselves

so control the pandemic, enable The Economy Must Grow, and be patient instead of patients

Divine Angel said:

LOL

(Anyway, BoJo has already had COVID-19, so he should be amongst the last to be vaccinated.)

Anyway, the Pfizer vaccine is the one that needs to be stored at -70C and needs specialised freezers and transport vehicles, much colder than an ordinary freezer. I can’t see any country having the capacity yet to implement this vaccine on a large scale. Real problem in rolling out a national vaccine program if you can’t transport or store it.

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

LOL

(Anyway, BoJo has already had COVID-19, so he should be amongst the last to be vaccinated.)

but maybe having antibodies might make it more dangerous next time around, including with vaccinations

party_pants said:

Anyway, the Pfizer vaccine is the one that needs to be stored at -70C and needs specialised freezers and transport vehicles, much colder than an ordinary freezer. I can’t see any country having the capacity yet to implement this vaccine on a large scale. Real problem in rolling out a national vaccine program if you can’t transport or store it.

ah but In Communist Russian Siberia

wait, global warming LOLOLOLOL

ChrispenEvan said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

The worry perhaps is it’s rushed out to restart the economy and not tested as thoroughly as it should.
Mind you reading about some previous vaccines they weren’t entirely safe either

https://theconversation.com/less-than-a-year-to-develop-a-covid-vaccine-heres-why-you-shouldnt-be-alarmed-150414

Some of the questions I have:

1) What is “long COVID”? What causes it? Can it appear many months after the patient has recovered from COVID? Is it caused by the virus or by the patients body’s reaction to the virus? If the latter, do we know for sure that these vaccines will not cause people to become ill with the symptoms of long COVID at some time in the future?

2) The intention throughout most of the world is to give the vaccine to health care workers first. All of them. In as condensed a time frame as possible. If there is a widespread negative reaction sometime in the future, which the current trials have not run long enough yet to uncover, we could potentially have a huge number of health care workers all becoming sick at once. Closely followed by those whose jobs are essential to keeping us all fed and watered. Closely followed by old folks, and whomever else is early in the vacc schedule. Lots of sick people concentrated among those who work the jobs most essential to keeping society going, and very few professionals to look after them. Would it not make more sense to give the vaccine to, say, half the healthcare workers and wait for a bit to see what happens?

3) Children won’t be getting the vaccine for a while yet. So, we are going to put evolutionary pressure on a virus (which is likely to be endemic) via a vaccine which will force the virus to evolve to “target” children, rather than adults. If this virus is going to be doing the rounds yearly, slightly mutated each time, do we really want a virus that targets 8 year olds rather than 80 year olds? What if it starts killing those 8 year olds in large numbers?

4) Why the fuck did AstraZ and Oxford dodgy up their results for release to the public? They took two separate trials, one of which they didn’t even follow the protocols properly for, which showed wildly different effectiveness and then averaged those two results and released a statement that their vaccine is x% effective? Did they perhaps feel untoward pressure to release figures since their main rivals, Pfizer and J&J, both released their figures? Is this good science?

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

The worry perhaps is it’s rushed out to restart the economy and not tested as thoroughly as it should.
Mind you reading about some previous vaccines they weren’t entirely safe either

I do find it worrying that it should be used first on elderly “most at risk”. I’d go with younger folk first, just to be sure. Because if there is a problem, you shouldn’t really give it to the most likely to die folks.

buffy said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

The worry perhaps is it’s rushed out to restart the economy and not tested as thoroughly as it should.
Mind you reading about some previous vaccines they weren’t entirely safe either

I do find it worrying that it should be used first on elderly “most at risk”. I’d go with younger folk first, just to be sure. Because if there is a problem, you shouldn’t really give it to the most likely to die folks.

perhaps, but actually in many cases the risk-benefit considerations mean that should be exactly what you do

esselte said:

1) What is “long COVID”? What causes it? Can it appear many months after the patient has recovered from COVID? Is it caused by the virus or by the patients body’s reaction to the virus? If the latter, do we know for sure that these vaccines will not cause people to become ill with the symptoms of long COVID at some time in the future?

2) The intention throughout most of the world is to give the vaccine to health care workers first. All of them. In as condensed a time frame as possible. If there is a widespread negative reaction sometime in the future, which the current trials have not run long enough yet to uncover, we could potentially have a huge number of health care workers all becoming sick at once. Closely followed by those whose jobs are essential to keeping us all fed and watered. Closely followed by old folks, and whomever else is early in the vacc schedule. Lots of sick people concentrated among those who work the jobs most essential to keeping society going, and very few professionals to look after them. Would it not make more sense to give the vaccine to, say, half the healthcare workers and wait for a bit to see what happens?

3) Children won’t be getting the vaccine for a while yet. So, we are going to put evolutionary pressure on a virus (which is likely to be endemic) via a vaccine which will force the virus to evolve to “target” children, rather than adults. If this virus is going to be doing the rounds yearly, slightly mutated each time, do we really want a virus that targets 8 year olds rather than 80 year olds? What if it starts killing those 8 year olds in large numbers?

4) Why the fuck did AstraZ and Oxford dodgy up their results for release to the public? They took two separate trials, one of which they didn’t even follow the protocols properly for, which showed wildly different effectiveness and then averaged those two results and released a statement that their vaccine is x% effective? Did they perhaps feel untoward pressure to release figures since their main rivals, Pfizer and J&J, both released their figures? Is this good science?

1) What is “long COVID”?

What is chronic fatigue syndrome ¿

2) Would it not make more sense to give the vaccine to, say, half the healthcare workers and wait for a bit to see what happens?

Correct, hence when the risk of all your HCWs being incapacitated by virus now is greater than the risk of a theoretically safe but practically still being assessed vaccine, you give it to those HCWs and you leave the HCWs in pandemic-minimal countries alone.

3) Children won’t be getting the vaccine for a while yet. So, we are going to put evolutionary pressure on a virus (which is likely to be endemic) via a vaccine which will force the virus to evolve to “target” children, rather than adults.

Opening schools achieves this just as well, so The Economy Must Grow ¡

4) Why the fuck did AstraZ and Oxford dodgy up their results for release to the public?

Probably as you say but also media like big leaks ¡

Yesterday I commented that I thought there was an edge of panic in some of the SA responses to COVID19. The rules for all medical and allied health included surgical masks in practices and shops (pharmacies) for all staff, clinicians and patients. The health department advice quite explicitly said cloth masks were “unacceptable”.

I got an email last night from the Optometrists Association, who have had further information. Looks like there has been kickback, I gather patients have been insisting on wearing their own cloth mask….

from the relevent health authority (Cut from the Association email):

“Thank you for your patience as we work through the new requirements for healthcare providers and services, in particular, around the use of face masks. I understand there have been a number of concerns raised about cloth masks vs surgical masks in a health care setting,” Dr Kirkpatrick said.

“We expect changes clarifying these concerns in the coming days. As such, the current ‘grace period’ will be extended until Saturday 0001hrs 5 December 2020. Further information will be communicated at this time.”

isn’t that kindawut NSW already had in it’s Gold Standard response

SCIENCE said:

isn’t that kindawut NSW already had in it’s Gold Standard response

well that was aposhypertrophic, sorry for that

as discussed

Dr Short said Australia was in an “incredibly good position”, not just because we can afford to watch and wait for more data, but because “we’re not going to have people dying” while waiting for vaccines to arrive.

NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard says the positive COVID-19 infection reported in a hotel worker yesterday is “highly likely” to have come from an overseas traveller.

He said it was a “massive relief” that genome testing had shown the quarantine hotel worker case had not been transmitted locally.

“The virus is not part of our locally transmitted viruses. It would appear it has come from overseas.

“We have more work to do to work out where it has come from, but it is highly likely it came from the possibly the hotel or possibly air crew who of course can stay overnight, stay for a few days, before they turn around and go back again.”

—

uh pretty sure that even if it came in from overseas, if you pick it up while you’re here, it’s locally transmitted

whether the source is known is a separate matter

otherwise Australia never had any local cases duh, remember the pandemic came from CHINA or more specifically via CHINA except it’s been found in various places earlier so who/WHO knows

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-04/sa-relaxes-coronavirus-restrictions-amid-no-new-cases/12949594

Listening to the medical folks…

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-04/sa-relaxes-coronavirus-restrictions-amid-no-new-cases/12949594

Listening to the medical folks…

Labor’s fault, imagine if this happened in an upstanding Liberal state, the media would be gushing and there’d be celebrations in the park

wait

SCIENCE said:

NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard says the positive COVID-19 infection reported in a hotel worker yesterday is “highly likely” to have come from an overseas traveller.

He said it was a “massive relief” that genome testing had shown the quarantine hotel worker case had not been transmitted locally.

“The virus is not part of our locally transmitted viruses. It would appear it has come from overseas.

“We have more work to do to work out where it has come from, but it is highly likely it came from the possibly the hotel or possibly air crew who of course can stay overnight, stay for a few days, before they turn around and go back again.”

—

uh pretty sure that even if it came in from overseas, if you pick it up while you’re here, it’s locally transmitted

whether the source is known is a separate matter

otherwise Australia never had any local cases duh, remember the pandemic came from CHINA or more specifically via CHINA except it’s been found in various places earlier so who/WHO knows

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-04/sydney-coronavirus-case-not-locally-transmitted-from-us/12949714

ah so they fixed it we see, note the added “from-us” bit, hacks

Good News

We currently know that 2 vaccines (Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna) reduce symptomatic infections by ~95%. But we have zero data on whether they reduce infectiousness (& primate studies indicate vaccine didn’t eliminate it: nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.105…; biorxiv.org/content/10.110…)

Bring It

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-04/coronavirus-cricketer-mujeeb-ur-rahman-tests-positive-to-covid19/12952988
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-04/australian-open-must-be-careful-about-pandering-to-tennis-stars/12947002

They’ve obviously just done a dive to make sure there is no major safety issues, and the risk versus benefit equation, given how many cases they get in the UK, favours just using this vaccine, they reckon the risk is low. But they will not have really looked at the data from the trials in any great detail at this point. So it looks as if it’s safe.
Will it prevent infection? We don’t know that yet. It certainly will prevent COVID-19 disease, which is great, given we’ve had so many deaths in the UK. And for us it means that we shouldn’t be rushing this at all. We are not in an emergency situation, we’ve got almost no virus in Australia apart from hotel quarantine, and we can wait. And, to be blunt, we can let the British and the Americans make their mistakes, learn how to distribute it, double-check that it’s safe when they’ve given it to millions of people over the next few weeks, and it will put us in much better shape for when we implement. So the approval for the Pfizer vaccine and maybe some of the others will be over the next 6 to 8 weeks, maybe longer, and then we will do it properly.

SCIENCE said:

They’ve obviously just done a dive to make sure there is no major safety issues, and the risk versus benefit equation, given how many cases they get in the UK, favours just using this vaccine, they reckon the risk is low. But they will not have really looked at the data from the trials in any great detail at this point. So it looks as if it’s safe.
Will it prevent infection? We don’t know that yet. It certainly will prevent COVID-19 disease, which is great, given we’ve had so many deaths in the UK. And for us it means that we shouldn’t be rushing this at all. We are not in an emergency situation, we’ve got almost no virus in Australia apart from hotel quarantine, and we can wait. And, to be blunt, we can let the British and the Americans make their mistakes, learn how to distribute it, double-check that it’s safe when they’ve given it to millions of people over the next few weeks, and it will put us in much better shape for when we implement. So the approval for the Pfizer vaccine and maybe some of the others will be over the next 6 to 8 weeks, maybe longer, and then we will do it properly.

Yes. Something like that.

from https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/here-we-go-again-more-problems-with-hotel-quarantine/12948088

SCIENCE said:

from https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/here-we-go-again-more-problems-with-hotel-quarantine/12948088

Work in Progress.

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

from https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/here-we-go-again-more-problems-with-hotel-quarantine/12948088

Work in Progress.

Quarantine should mean what it says.
The staff should remain in quarantine as well or be kitted out with full PPE and trained. Even then many hospital staff get infected. They also should stay in quarantine.

SCIENCE said:

They’ve obviously just done a dive to make sure there is no major safety issues, and the risk versus benefit equation, given how many cases they get in the UK, favours just using this vaccine, they reckon the risk is low. But they will not have really looked at the data from the trials in any great detail at this point. So it looks as if it’s safe.
Will it prevent infection? We don’t know that yet. It certainly will prevent COVID-19 disease, which is great, given we’ve had so many deaths in the UK. And for us it means that we shouldn’t be rushing this at all. We are not in an emergency situation, we’ve got almost no virus in Australia apart from hotel quarantine, and we can wait. And, to be blunt, we can let the British and the Americans make their mistakes, learn how to distribute it, double-check that it’s safe when they’ve given it to millions of people over the next few weeks, and it will put us in much better shape for when we implement. So the approval for the Pfizer vaccine and maybe some of the others will be over the next 6 to 8 weeks, maybe longer, and then we will do it properly.

Yes.

“The original request from Victoria has been scaled back after the ADF advised that they were not able to undertake any security type work or perform floor monitoring roles in the health hotels.” a Government spokesperson said in a statement.

ABC article

Rule 303 said:

“The original request from Victoria has been scaled back after the ADF advised that they were not able to undertake any security type work or perform floor monitoring roles in the health hotels.” a Government spokesperson said in a statement.

ABC article

But, but, but….they should have taken the ADF before! Why didn’t they take the ADF before! (Because they didn’t have policing powers and couldn’t do much except stand at the door and say “Good Morning!”?)

(I read that article last night and smiled. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing when combined with even minimal memory…)

buffy said:

Rule 303 said:

“The original request from Victoria has been scaled back after the ADF advised that they were not able to undertake any security type work or perform floor monitoring roles in the health hotels.” a Government spokesperson said in a statement.

ABC article

But, but, but….they should have taken the ADF before! Why didn’t they take the ADF before! (Because they didn’t have policing powers and couldn’t do much except stand at the door and say “Good Morning!”?)

(I read that article last night and smiled. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing when combined with even minimal memory…)

Were they trying to blame the lack of ADF for Vic’s public health incompetence?

A year after Wuhan alarm, China seeks to change Covid origin story

Nearly a year after doctors identified the first cases of a worrying new disease in the Chinese city of Wuhan, the country appears to be stepping up a campaign to question the origins of the global Covid-19 pandemic.

more…

poikilotherm said:

buffy said:

Rule 303 said:

“The original request from Victoria has been scaled back after the ADF advised that they were not able to undertake any security type work or perform floor monitoring roles in the health hotels.” a Government spokesperson said in a statement.

ABC article

But, but, but….they should have taken the ADF before! Why didn’t they take the ADF before! (Because they didn’t have policing powers and couldn’t do much except stand at the door and say “Good Morning!”?)

(I read that article last night and smiled. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing when combined with even minimal memory…)

Were they trying to blame the lack of ADF for Vic’s public health incompetence?

read the article. doesn’t appear to be the case.

Tau.Neutrino said:

A year after Wuhan alarm, China seeks to change Covid origin story

Nearly a year after doctors identified the first cases of a worrying new disease in the Chinese city of Wuhan, the country appears to be stepping up a campaign to question the origins of the global Covid-19 pandemic.

more…

I don’t know what game they’re playing at: even if there were isolated cases outside China there was still terrible mismanagement in Wuhan in the weeks after the new pathogen was identified.

Tau.Neutrino said:

A year after Wuhan alarm, China seeks to change Covid origin story

Nearly a year after doctors identified the first cases of a worrying new disease in the Chinese city of Wuhan, the country appears to be stepping up a campaign to question the origins of the global Covid-19 pandemic.

more…

It’s interesting because language matters, if they say “emerged” then really it’s not the same as “originated”. Then they suggest that appearing in the place is an indicator that it started there but when bullet wounds appear in people it doesn’t necessarily mean that they originated in those people…

Witty Rejoinder said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A year after Wuhan alarm, China seeks to change Covid origin story

Nearly a year after doctors identified the first cases of a worrying new disease in the Chinese city of Wuhan, the country appears to be stepping up a campaign to question the origins of the global Covid-19 pandemic.

more…

I don’t know what game they’re playing at: even if there were isolated cases outside China there was still terrible mismanagement in Wuhan in the weeks after the new pathogen was identified.

2020 Hindsight Is It Not Wonderful

poikilotherm said:

buffy said:

Rule 303 said:

“The original request from Victoria has been scaled back after the ADF advised that they were not able to undertake any security type work or perform floor monitoring roles in the health hotels.” a Government spokesperson said in a statement.

ABC article

But, but, but….they should have taken the ADF before! Why didn’t they take the ADF before! (Because they didn’t have policing powers and couldn’t do much except stand at the door and say “Good Morning!”?)

(I read that article last night and smiled. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing when combined with even minimal memory…)

Were they trying to blame the lack of ADF for Vic’s public health incompetence?

Yeah, there was a hell of a lot of noise in the Murdoch press about our Premier not accepting (or not understanding the offer of) help from the ADF to enforce security at Quarantine hotels. It’s widely believed to be the reason we used private security guards, and they are blamed for the escape of the virus which precipitated the second wave.

If this article is correct, all that noise has turned out to be bullshit.

ChrispenEvan said:

poikilotherm said:

buffy said:

But, but, but….they should have taken the ADF before! Why didn’t they take the ADF before! (Because they didn’t have policing powers and couldn’t do much except stand at the door and say “Good Morning!”?)

(I read that article last night and smiled. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing when combined with even minimal memory…)

Were they trying to blame the lack of ADF for Vic’s public health incompetence?

read the article. doesn’t appear to be the case.

Sort of…way back when…apparently Victoria should have taken more ADF support (which was or wasn’t offered depending on who you ask) and none of the second wave would have happened. There were “discussions” in the newspapers etc.

Rule 303 said:

poikilotherm said:

buffy said:

But, but, but….they should have taken the ADF before! Why didn’t they take the ADF before! (Because they didn’t have policing powers and couldn’t do much except stand at the door and say “Good Morning!”?)

(I read that article last night and smiled. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing when combined with even minimal memory…)

Were they trying to blame the lack of ADF for Vic’s public health incompetence?

Yeah, there was a hell of a lot of noise in the Murdoch press about our Premier not accepting (or not understanding the offer of) help from the ADF to enforce security at Quarantine hotels. It’s widely believed to be the reason we used private security guards, and they are blamed for the escape of the virus which precipitated the second wave.

If this article is correct, all that noise has turned out to be bullshit.

Oh, I should have read further before commenting.

Two international travellers are now in mandatory quarantine in Victoria after arriving in Sydney and boarding a domestic flight to Melbourne without quarantining in NSW.

The breach has resulted in a public health investigation, with contact tracing efforts underway.

Anyone who was on that flight should immediately quarantine at home and contact the DHHS for further instructions.

SCIENCE said:

Two international travellers are now in mandatory quarantine in Victoria after arriving in Sydney and boarding a domestic flight to Melbourne without quarantining in NSW.

The breach has resulted in a public health investigation, with contact tracing efforts underway.

Anyone who was on that flight should immediately quarantine at home and contact the DHHS for further instructions.

Well that’s just fucked.

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Two international travellers are now in mandatory quarantine in Victoria after arriving in Sydney and boarding a domestic flight to Melbourne without quarantining in NSW.

The breach has resulted in a public health investigation, with contact tracing efforts underway.

Anyone who was on that flight should immediately quarantine at home and contact the DHHS for further instructions.

Well that’s just fucked.

HTF can you just wander through customs and immigration and go your own way?

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Two international travellers are now in mandatory quarantine in Victoria after arriving in Sydney and boarding a domestic flight to Melbourne without quarantining in NSW.

The breach has resulted in a public health investigation, with contact tracing efforts underway.

Anyone who was on that flight should immediately quarantine at home and contact the DHHS for further instructions.

Well that’s just fucked.

HTF can you just wander through customs and immigration and go your own way?

that’s NSW for you.

;-)

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Two international travellers are now in mandatory quarantine in Victoria after arriving in Sydney and boarding a domestic flight to Melbourne without quarantining in NSW.

The breach has resulted in a public health investigation, with contact tracing efforts underway.

Anyone who was on that flight should immediately quarantine at home and contact the DHHS for further instructions.

Well that’s just fucked.

HTF can you just wander through customs and immigration and go your own way?

I blame Peter Dutton.

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Well that’s just fucked.

HTF can you just wander through customs and immigration and go your own way?

I blame Peter Dutton.

Dictator Dan more like it.

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

HTF can you just wander through customs and immigration and go your own way?

I blame Peter Dutton.

Dictator Dan more like it.

Dictator Dan is the reason the Germans lost the war.

Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

I blame Peter Dutton.

Dictator Dan more like it.

Dictator Dan is the reason the Germans lost the war.

and why we can’t have nice things.

All joking aside however, we agree it’s pretty fucked, but at least the news doesn’t say they’ve tested positive … yet.

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Dictator Dan more like it.

Dictator Dan is the reason the Germans lost the war.

and why we can’t have nice things.

I’m drinking an Abbotsford at the moment, so your comment is demonstrably untrue.

Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

I blame Peter Dutton.

Dictator Dan more like it.

Dictator Dan is the reason the Germans lost the war.

I think I’m with p_p here…isn’t that sort of thing Border Force’s responsibility? It’s certainly not up to the airlines to be policing government policy.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Well that’s just fucked.

HTF can you just wander through customs and immigration and go your own way?

that’s NSW for you.

;-)

And gold standards…

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

HTF can you just wander through customs and immigration and go your own way?

that’s NSW for you.

;-)

And gold standards…

Looks like somebody spilt mercury on the gold.

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

that’s NSW for you.

;-)

And gold standards…

Looks like somebody spilt mercury on the gold.

An aqua regia attack.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-leading-cause-of-death-united-states-this-week/

Covid-19 is once again the leading cause of death in the USA currently.