Has anyone ever used frost blankets for plants? Each year since I have had them (about 3 years) my Tamarillo and Hibiscus have been knocked about by frosts. They do come back over summer, but naturally suffer quite a set-back. In particular the tamarillo has never fruited.

We are contemplating get a frost blanket, but don’t know how effective or expensive they are. Are they worth it?

can’t help you there AnneS. Get minimal frost here.

bluegreen said:

can’t help you there AnneS. Get minimal frost here.

Lucky you! Considering we are so close to the coast as the crow flies (only about 15km driving) it’s amazing how much we get. They are mostly only light to medium frosts, but are generally enough to knock frost-tender plants, which stupidly we want to grow. :(

AnneS said:

Has anyone ever used frost blankets for plants? Each year since I have had them (about 3 years) my Tamarillo and Hibiscus have been knocked about by frosts. They do come back over summer, but naturally suffer quite a set-back. In particular the tamarillo has never fruited.

We are contemplating get a frost blanket, but don’t know how effective or expensive they are. Are they worth it?

Well, I see them used. I did an experiment with tree guards.. measuring temperatures inside them and found that a small column of air in the centre was less cold than outer columns. The cold soil might however be more difficult to beat.

If they come back at all then perhaps you should consider either moving them to a better spot in the garden or.. making their spot better.

or to say it differently; I don’t use frost blankets or tree guards but I don’t grow the plants you suggest either. However I do have to deal with frosts and have devised the sunny winter nook concept.

roughbarked said:

or to say it differently; I don’t use frost blankets or tree guards but I don’t grow the plants you suggest either. However I do have to deal with frosts and have devised the sunny winter nook concept.

Thanks roughbarked

The tamarillo in particular has plenty of sun. It’s one of the trees that my son bought for us. We used to have a tree guard of sorts (the cover of an old gazebo). The gale force winds that we have is another limiting factor for it’s survival.

I’m not so concerned about the hibiscus…I got it when my daughter was removing it from her garden cause she didn’t like it. I would normally not have planted it, but I didn’t like the idea of a perfectly good plant being thrown out…so I re-located it to here

AnneS said:

I’m not so concerned about the hibiscus…I got it when my daughter was removing it from her garden cause she didn’t like it. I would normally not have planted it, but I didn’t like the idea of a perfectly good plant being thrown out…so I re-located it to here

I’ve got a huge hibiscus I’d like to get rid of.. pity you live so far away :D

bon008 said:

AnneS said:

I’m not so concerned about the hibiscus…I got it when my daughter was removing it from her garden cause she didn’t like it. I would normally not have planted it, but I didn’t like the idea of a perfectly good plant being thrown out…so I re-located it to here

I’ve got a huge hibiscus I’d like to get rid of.. pity you live so far away :D

:)

AnneS said:

roughbarked said:

or to say it differently; I don’t use frost blankets or tree guards but I don’t grow the plants you suggest either. However I do have to deal with frosts and have devised the sunny winter nook concept.

Thanks roughbarked

We used to have a tree guard of sorts (the cover of an old gazebo). The gale force winds that we have is another limiting factor for it’s survival.

I didn’t like the idea of a perfectly good plant being thrown out…so I re-located it to here

The sunny nook also protects from wind and can be done with shadecloth around the tree if there aren’t windbreaks otherwise. Things seem to survive better in winter if exposed to morning sun more than the afternoon sun.

AnneS said:

bon008 said:

AnneS said:

I’m not so concerned about the hibiscus…I got it when my daughter was removing it from her garden cause she didn’t like it. I would normally not have planted it, but I didn’t like the idea of a perfectly good plant being thrown out…so I re-located it to here

I’ve got a huge hibiscus I’d like to get rid of.. pity you live so far away :D

:)

Most trees in my backyard are ones I couldn’t stand to see die because no one would love them. This weeping mulberry is one that I moved twice for the same reason.

roughbarked said:

AnneS said:

roughbarked said:

or to say it differently; I don’t use frost blankets or tree guards but I don’t grow the plants you suggest either. However I do have to deal with frosts and have devised the sunny winter nook concept.

Thanks roughbarked

We used to have a tree guard of sorts (the cover of an old gazebo). The gale force winds that we have is another limiting factor for it’s survival.

I didn’t like the idea of a perfectly good plant being thrown out…so I re-located it to here

The sunny nook also protects from wind and can be done with shadecloth around the tree if there aren’t windbreaks otherwise. Things seem to survive better in winter if exposed to morning sun more than the afternoon sun.

It gets pretty much all day sun where it is. We are still working on the windbreak….the seedlings aren’t growing fast enough though :)

roughbarked said:

AnneS said:

bon008 said:

I’ve got a huge hibiscus I’d like to get rid of.. pity you live so far away :D

:)

Most trees in my backyard are ones I couldn’t stand to see die because no one would love them. This weeping mulberry is one that I moved twice for the same reason.

Wow what an amazing looking tree!

AnneS said:

roughbarked said:

AnneS said:

Thanks roughbarked

We used to have a tree guard of sorts (the cover of an old gazebo). The gale force winds that we have is another limiting factor for it’s survival.

I didn’t like the idea of a perfectly good plant being thrown out…so I re-located it to here

The sunny nook also protects from wind and can be done with shadecloth around the tree if there aren’t windbreaks otherwise. Things seem to survive better in winter if exposed to morning sun more than the afternoon sun.

It gets pretty much all day sun where it is. We are still working on the windbreak….the seedlings aren’t growing fast enough though :)

what have you planted as windbreak?

roughbarked said:

AnneS said:

roughbarked said:

The sunny nook also protects from wind and can be done with shadecloth around the tree if there aren’t windbreaks otherwise. Things seem to survive better in winter if exposed to morning sun more than the afternoon sun.

It gets pretty much all day sun where it is. We are still working on the windbreak….the seedlings aren’t growing fast enough though :)

what have you planted as windbreak?

They are still in pots really small …have hakeas salicifolia and acacia longifolia at the moment. Can’t afford to buy enough (even tubestock) for a windbreak so am growing my own from seed. I am also trying to collect seed from the local casuarinas and turpentines

roughbarked said:

AnneS said:

bon008 said:

I’ve got a huge hibiscus I’d like to get rid of.. pity you live so far away :D

:)

Most trees in my backyard are ones I couldn’t stand to see die because no one would love them. This weeping mulberry is one that I moved twice for the same reason.

Wow, that is a beautiful tree!

you should see it in winter. Shots taken from up in the tree.

My belief is that you just need to prevent the frost from settling on the plant. So just about anything you can throw over, and preferably over a frame than in direct contact with the plant, will help. Also frost bearing air will flow downhill, so if you are on a slope a barrier to stop or deflect this air uphill from your plant will also help. I have also heard that the most damage is done when the sun first hits the frosted plant and if you can get up and water the plant before the sun hits it you can minimise damage. All this is hearsay because, as I said, I don’t really have a frost problem here.

bluegreen said:

My belief is that you just need to prevent the frost from settling on the plant. So just about anything you can throw over, and preferably over a frame than in direct contact with the plant, will help. Also frost bearing air will flow downhill, so if you are on a slope a barrier to stop or deflect this air uphill from your plant will also help. I have also heard that the most damage is done when the sun first hits the frosted plant and if you can get up and water the plant before the sun hits it you can minimise damage. All this is hearsay because, as I said, I don’t really have a frost problem here.

It is difficult to talk about frosts unless you have them and even then it is difficult due to the variable ways frost damage can occur.

An example: a woman came to me one day and said. “This branch of Myoporum you sold me. I have just been around all the nurseries in town wanting to know why such damage had occurred and they couldn’t tell me. So I thought I’d drive out to see you” and promptly shoved the branch in my hand.
It was green at the tips and at the base.. but the middle section was black.
So I looked at the lady and said; “this tree has been hit by a cold inversion layer that could have been as cold as -10C. I have seen it before and will no doubt see it again”.

Frost likes to settle in the hollows, even if you can’t see them…I wonder if, in your area, repeated cold soil temps without warming up during the day, causes the plants to “go backwards” during winter? The gale force winds would keep the frost away…frosts don’t like breezes…we do get frosts here but only in the lower reaches of country and especially where water is lying around…e.g. billabongs, lagoons…

What we used to do, to keep the pawpaws going through the winter (and the mango,until it was well established), was scrounge some sawdust and get it smoking: the updraft was generall sufficient to create warmish air that kept the frost away…the trick was to get it smoking through the night… damn thing would go out just before the frost crept up…

dark coloured mulch or even weedcloth would help warm up the soil during the day. on GA Pete used to say to remove the usual mulches like straw in winter so that the sun could warm the soil directly.

Dinetta said:

Frost likes to settle in the hollows, even if you can’t see them…I wonder if, in your area, repeated cold soil temps without warming up during the day, causes the plants to “go backwards” during winter? The gale force winds would keep the frost away…frosts don’t like breezes…we do get frosts here but only in the lower reaches of country and especially where water is lying around…e.g. billabongs, lagoons…

This is a good point. Frosts I have seen even above Coffs Harbour right on the coast yet the plants aren’t going backwards. Though permafrost is not generally a term applied to Australia the same principle of cold soil still applies.

bluegreen said:

dark coloured mulch or even weedcloth would help warm up the soil during the day. on GA Pete used to say to remove the usual mulches like straw in winter so that the sun could warm the soil directly.

What we have to differentiate between are frosts and frosts.

I have probably already told many who read my posts that this yard started out with more than 100 tonnes of grape marc.

Grape marc is black. The frosts won’t settle on it at first because it is too hot. Spread it out and allow it to cool and immediately the frosts will appear greater wherever the grape marc is. Notice I said appear. They will change from black to white. Colour doesn’t change this as dramatically as it would appear since a rice hull mulch will attract frost first and hold the frost longer.

Frosts are seen because the warmer air rises from the soil and meets colder air descending which then freezes the moisture in the warm air.
Hence more white frosts will occur on the sunny days of winter.

Just because there is a frost does not mean that everything will die, even tomatoes can stand mild frosts.

There can be no substitute for shading the soil. For though you may sit a block of ice partly in the shade and partly in the sun and watch the results. You may also notice that a white frost will appear everywhere there is no shade.

The first mulches to warm up are the red iron rich sands. These will protect the soil and plants from frost better than most.

Now I have grown frost sensitive native trees where I had to take various precautions or suffer frost damage or loss until the trees got above the 1.6 metre mark. These trees have lived the 36 years since. Yet I have seen frost 20 m up trees in other locations. So yes, you have to become familiar with how frosts happen in your particular location.

Here we have roughly two to six black frosts a year. A black frost is when all the things that have survived the winter to this point, are all black the next morning. This is when the temperatures get to their lowest due to the soil being at its coldest. White frosts may not appear at all but everything is dead. The sun by this stage is already well on its way back to longer warmer days but the earth is only just reaching the coldest point. Which you may see at the other end of the year when the sun should be cooling off but the earth is stilll heating up.

I live on rather flat plains by comparison to areas of Australia where most population exists. There is nothing to stop the wind on a flat plain. It never snows here but an American friend told me.. “ I come from Kansas City where snow may easily be two feet deep all winter. I’ve never been so cold in all my life than when I lived in a fibro house on your flat plain”. Wind chill factor is a greater problem than frost to the well being of plants.

Inversion layers are those thin lines of white mist you may observe hovering in the headlights of cars driving on winter nights. Rest assured that these signify realy cold conditions exist within the layer that are far colder than the air either side .

These are reasons why I suggest to protect from the sides more than the top. Of course, if you are already protected from the sides then a little protection at the top may help more.

Excellent post, RoughBarked…and a good read too..:P

Back home (just up the road really) we used to get what we called “woodeners”…where the frost caused the whole plant to freeze solid…haven’t had winters like that for many a year, tho’…and I wondered what kind of a frost was a “black” frost that somebody was raving about here, 3 years ago…MrD told me they are the same as “woodeners”…just local dialect where we come from…I thought maybe a black frost meant where a lot of the leaves were black in the morning…I agree wholeheartedly that there’s frost and there’s frost…

Dinetta said:

Excellent post, RoughBarked…and a good read too..:P

Back home (just up the road really) we used to get what we called “woodeners”…where the frost caused the whole plant to freeze solid…haven’t had winters like that for many a year, tho’…and I wondered what kind of a frost was a “black” frost that somebody was raving about here, 3 years ago…MrD told me they are the same as “woodeners”…just local dialect where we come from…I thought maybe a black frost meant where a lot of the leaves were black in the morning…I agree wholeheartedly that there’s frost and there’s frost…

Yes a black frost is when everything is frozen solid. On such days white frosts may not appear because there is no rising warm air.

Interesting post about frosts RB, thanks :)

It’s an occasional frost I get here and rarely into minus figures. But I do know after years of observation that I have a diagonal ‘path’ where frost, when it does happen, will travel across my property leaving a deadened stripe across my lawn area and the edges of garden beds. I moved a tahitian lime out of this path and last winter it fared a lot better. I put apples in that spot and they love it, so now everyone’s happy, lol.

roughbarked said:

What we have to differentiate between are frosts and frosts.

Ahh, now I know why I garden in Perth sand.. don’t have to worry about all that! :D