So Victoria is no longer mandatory masks. Just mandatory to carry one and use it in some settings.

buffy said:

So Victoria is no longer mandatory masks. Just mandatory to carry one and use it in some settings.

There you are then. Summer should be less uncomfortable than was feared.

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

buffy said:

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

Yes.

They are definitely sharing more Covid19.

Tau.Neutrino said:

buffy said:

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

Yes.

They are definitely sharing more Covid19.

When will they learn?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/daniel-andrews-nsw-hotel-quarantine-passengers-left-bus-queue/12954984

Seems the pair who came on to Melbourne from Sydney left the queue to hotel quarantine to catch the connecting flight. Lucky the hire car person in Melbourne was alert.

buffy said:

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

The big question is why. What possible purpose can be served holding a rally only a month after an election.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

The big question is why. What possible purpose can be served holding a rally only a month after an election.

He feeds off the attention.

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

The big question is why. What possible purpose can be served holding a rally only a month after an election.

He feeds off the attention.

He’s making tens of millions of dollars from money being diverted from his legal defence donors.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

The big question is why. What possible purpose can be served holding a rally only a month after an election.

Hes been spruiking the Georgia run-offs

party_pants said:

buffy said:

And more sharing of the virus…

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/donald-trump-holds-rally-in-georgia-first-since-us-election/12954882

The big question is why. What possible purpose can be served holding a rally only a month after an election.

For the Senate election finals.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/daniel-andrews-nsw-hotel-quarantine-passengers-left-bus-queue/12954984

Seems the pair who came on to Melbourne from Sydney left the queue to hotel quarantine to catch the connecting flight. Lucky the hire car person in Melbourne was alert.

How can they just let people at random onto flights, we thought that stopped after the previous big day of AMERICAN DEATHS

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/daniel-andrews-nsw-hotel-quarantine-passengers-left-bus-queue/12954984

Seems the pair who came on to Melbourne from Sydney left the queue to hotel quarantine to catch the connecting flight. Lucky the hire car person in Melbourne was alert.

How can they just let people at random onto flights, we thought that stopped after the previous big day of AMERICAN DEATHS

they aren’t random people but people selected by a ticketing system.

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/daniel-andrews-nsw-hotel-quarantine-passengers-left-bus-queue/12954984

Seems the pair who came on to Melbourne from Sydney left the queue to hotel quarantine to catch the connecting flight. Lucky the hire car person in Melbourne was alert.

How can they just let people at random onto flights, we thought that stopped after the previous big day of AMERICAN DEATHS

they aren’t random people but people selected by a ticketing system.

you mean airline profits take priority over infection control checks

fair

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

How can they just let people at random onto flights, we thought that stopped after the previous big day of AMERICAN DEATHS

they aren’t random people but people selected by a ticketing system.

you mean airline profits take priority over infection control checks

fair

it isn’t really the airlines responsibility to an extent to check up on passengers between flights, as in this case.

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

they aren’t random people but people selected by a ticketing system.

you mean airline profits take priority over infection control checks

fair

it isn’t really the airlines responsibility to an extent to check up on passengers between flights, as in this case.

perhaps but remember how security was so tight that grandma couldn’t even bring her nail clippers on board and little Jimmy couldn’t even have his 101 mL drink bottle to keep hydrated, imagine screening passengers

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

you mean airline profits take priority over infection control checks

fair

it isn’t really the airlines responsibility to an extent to check up on passengers between flights, as in this case.

perhaps but remember how security was so tight that grandma couldn’t even bring her nail clippers on board and little Jimmy couldn’t even have his 101 mL drink bottle to keep hydrated, imagine screening passengers

I couldn’t take a bent baby fork and spoon on the plane.

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

you mean airline profits take priority over infection control checks

fair

it isn’t really the airlines responsibility to an extent to check up on passengers between flights, as in this case.

perhaps but remember how security was so tight that grandma couldn’t even bring her nail clippers on board and little Jimmy couldn’t even have his 101 mL drink bottle to keep hydrated, imagine screening passengers

I know, the security on the ground should be able to pick these travellers out and make sure they go through the proper channels. Big failure.

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

How can they just let people at random onto flights, we thought that stopped after the previous big day of AMERICAN DEATHS

they aren’t random people but people selected by a ticketing system.

you mean airline profits take priority over infection control checks

fair

NSW Police let them out of the quarantine queue and onto the domestic flight.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/nsw-police-admit-wrongly-letting-german-pair-fly-to-melbourne/12954984

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

they aren’t random people but people selected by a ticketing system.

you mean airline profits take priority over infection control checks

fair

NSW Police let them out of the quarantine queue and onto the domestic flight.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-06/nsw-police-admit-wrongly-letting-german-pair-fly-to-melbourne/12954984

But the reason we can’t have security guards at the hospitals is because the police would do a better job…

I must be getting old and cynical.

This is good news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/02/europe/russia-putin-coronavirus-vaccine-intl/index.html

A bit of background. Although Putin approved the Russian vaccine months ago, no release of vaccine happened because his decision was not ratified by the Soviet. All that happened was that testing speeded up a bit. And Kazakhstan put in an order for some when it becvame available.

Now we have:

> Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered his government to start large-scale vaccinations against Covid-19 from next week. Russia became the first country in the world to approve its coronavirus vaccine, Sputnik V, in August, authorizing the treatment for public use even before crucial Phase 3 trials were conducted.

Good. We don’t need Phase 3 to tell us the Virus is safe because it’s Phase 2 that tells us whether the vaccine is safe. The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.

> Over two million doses have been produced or will have been produced in the next few days. The first registered vaccine against the coronavirus infection in the world, Sputnik V, will reach this level of production. This allows us to begin — if not mass — a large-scale vaccination. The primary focus will be the vaccination of the two risk groups: of doctors and teachers.

2 million isn’t much, but it’s a start. And if doled out carefully will make a big difference.

> to date more than 100,000 Russian citizens had already been vaccinated with Sputnik.
> 20,000 people have received their first dose of Sputnik V as part of Phase 3.
> 10,000 volunteers from the “red zones” of Russian hospitals were vaccinated in September.
> 2,500 military servicemen had already been vaccinated.

> Putin’s order to intensify the vaccination program comes after the UK became the first Western country to authorize the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine on Wednesday.

mollwollfumble said:

This is good news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/02/europe/russia-putin-coronavirus-vaccine-intl/index.html

A bit of background. Although Putin approved the Russian vaccine months ago, no release of vaccine happened because his decision was not ratified by the Soviet. All that happened was that testing speeded up a bit. And Kazakhstan put in an order for some when it becvame available.

Now we have:

> Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered his government to start large-scale vaccinations against Covid-19 from next week. Russia became the first country in the world to approve its coronavirus vaccine, Sputnik V, in August, authorizing the treatment for public use even before crucial Phase 3 trials were conducted.

Good. We don’t need Phase 3 to tell us the Virus is safe because it’s Phase 2 that tells us whether the vaccine is safe. The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.

> Over two million doses have been produced or will have been produced in the next few days. The first registered vaccine against the coronavirus infection in the world, Sputnik V, will reach this level of production. This allows us to begin — if not mass — a large-scale vaccination. The primary focus will be the vaccination of the two risk groups: of doctors and teachers.

2 million isn’t much, but it’s a start. And if doled out carefully will make a big difference.

> to date more than 100,000 Russian citizens had already been vaccinated with Sputnik.
> 20,000 people have received their first dose of Sputnik V as part of Phase 3.
> 10,000 volunteers from the “red zones” of Russian hospitals were vaccinated in September.
> 2,500 military servicemen had already been vaccinated.

> Putin’s order to intensify the vaccination program comes after the UK became the first Western country to authorize the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine on Wednesday.

>>The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.<<

So, nearly 8 months. How many have come down with the virus?

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

This is good news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/02/europe/russia-putin-coronavirus-vaccine-intl/index.html

A bit of background. Although Putin approved the Russian vaccine months ago, no release of vaccine happened because his decision was not ratified by the Soviet. All that happened was that testing speeded up a bit. And Kazakhstan put in an order for some when it becvame available.

Now we have:

> Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered his government to start large-scale vaccinations against Covid-19 from next week. Russia became the first country in the world to approve its coronavirus vaccine, Sputnik V, in August, authorizing the treatment for public use even before crucial Phase 3 trials were conducted.

Good. We don’t need Phase 3 to tell us the Virus is safe because it’s Phase 2 that tells us whether the vaccine is safe. The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.

> Over two million doses have been produced or will have been produced in the next few days. The first registered vaccine against the coronavirus infection in the world, Sputnik V, will reach this level of production. This allows us to begin — if not mass — a large-scale vaccination. The primary focus will be the vaccination of the two risk groups: of doctors and teachers.

2 million isn’t much, but it’s a start. And if doled out carefully will make a big difference.

> to date more than 100,000 Russian citizens had already been vaccinated with Sputnik.
> 20,000 people have received their first dose of Sputnik V as part of Phase 3.
> 10,000 volunteers from the “red zones” of Russian hospitals were vaccinated in September.
> 2,500 military servicemen had already been vaccinated.

> Putin’s order to intensify the vaccination program comes after the UK became the first Western country to authorize the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine on Wednesday.

>>The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.<<

So, nearly 8 months. How many have come down with the virus?

Do you believe we will get accurate representations of actual figures quickly?

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

sibeen said:

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

catch

Sheesh.

sibeen said:

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

Doesn’t she know that if she puts a mask on it, this will help?

sibeen said:

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

You’d have to be proud of that.

Rule 303 said:

sibeen said:

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

You’d have to be proud of that.

I am. I’ve brought them up well, despite the concerns of some here :)

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

This is good news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/02/europe/russia-putin-coronavirus-vaccine-intl/index.html

A bit of background. Although Putin approved the Russian vaccine months ago, no release of vaccine happened because his decision was not ratified by the Soviet. All that happened was that testing speeded up a bit. And Kazakhstan put in an order for some when it becvame available.

Now we have:

> Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered his government to start large-scale vaccinations against Covid-19 from next week. Russia became the first country in the world to approve its coronavirus vaccine, Sputnik V, in August, authorizing the treatment for public use even before crucial Phase 3 trials were conducted.

Good. We don’t need Phase 3 to tell us the Virus is safe because it’s Phase 2 that tells us whether the vaccine is safe. The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.

> Over two million doses have been produced or will have been produced in the next few days. The first registered vaccine against the coronavirus infection in the world, Sputnik V, will reach this level of production. This allows us to begin — if not mass — a large-scale vaccination. The primary focus will be the vaccination of the two risk groups: of doctors and teachers.

2 million isn’t much, but it’s a start. And if doled out carefully will make a big difference.

> to date more than 100,000 Russian citizens had already been vaccinated with Sputnik.
> 20,000 people have received their first dose of Sputnik V as part of Phase 3.
> 10,000 volunteers from the “red zones” of Russian hospitals were vaccinated in September.
> 2,500 military servicemen had already been vaccinated.

> Putin’s order to intensify the vaccination program comes after the UK became the first Western country to authorize the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine on Wednesday.

>>The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.<<

So, nearly 8 months. How many have come down with the virus?

None, as of a month ago.

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

sibeen said:

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

You’d have to be proud of that.

I am. I’ve brought them up well, despite the concerns of some here :)

>cough< most >cough<

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

sibeen said:

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

You’d have to be proud of that.

I am. I’ve brought them up well, despite the concerns of some here :)

I blame the Mum.

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

Senior sprog has just sent a screen shot of her phone showing her connected to a 5G network and underneath the caption “Don’t be surprised if I cat corona anytime soon.”

:)

catch

Sheesh.

i read it as “get”.

Rule 303 said:

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

You’d have to be proud of that.

I am. I’ve brought them up well, despite the concerns of some here :)

>cough< most >cough<

I never felt the need to show any concern. They seemed like good kids to me.

mollwollfumble said:

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

This is good news.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/02/europe/russia-putin-coronavirus-vaccine-intl/index.html

A bit of background. Although Putin approved the Russian vaccine months ago, no release of vaccine happened because his decision was not ratified by the Soviet. All that happened was that testing speeded up a bit. And Kazakhstan put in an order for some when it becvame available.

Now we have:

> Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered his government to start large-scale vaccinations against Covid-19 from next week. Russia became the first country in the world to approve its coronavirus vaccine, Sputnik V, in August, authorizing the treatment for public use even before crucial Phase 3 trials were conducted.

Good. We don’t need Phase 3 to tell us the Virus is safe because it’s Phase 2 that tells us whether the vaccine is safe. The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.

> Over two million doses have been produced or will have been produced in the next few days. The first registered vaccine against the coronavirus infection in the world, Sputnik V, will reach this level of production. This allows us to begin — if not mass — a large-scale vaccination. The primary focus will be the vaccination of the two risk groups: of doctors and teachers.

2 million isn’t much, but it’s a start. And if doled out carefully will make a big difference.

> to date more than 100,000 Russian citizens had already been vaccinated with Sputnik.
> 20,000 people have received their first dose of Sputnik V as part of Phase 3.
> 10,000 volunteers from the “red zones” of Russian hospitals were vaccinated in September.
> 2,500 military servicemen had already been vaccinated.

> Putin’s order to intensify the vaccination program comes after the UK became the first Western country to authorize the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine on Wednesday.

>>The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.<<

So, nearly 8 months. How many have come down with the virus?

None, as of a month ago.

Correction. None, as of October 5. I haven’t heard since then.

The West Australian Government has committed $1.8 billion to a new women’s and babies’ hospital for Perth, following a larger-than-expected forecast surplus for next financial year.

WA Premier Mark McGowan said the mid-year financial review, which is expected to be handed down in the coming weeks, would predict a surplus of $2.2 billion for 2021 — $1 billion more than was estimated in this year’s budget.

—

fk imagine if the Economy Expert Liberals had been in charge and done their flock immunity right, the surplus would have been like $500G, stupid Dan we mean Mark we mean

SCIENCE said:

The West Australian Government has committed $1.8 billion to a new women’s and babies’ hospital for Perth, following a larger-than-expected forecast surplus for next financial year.

WA Premier Mark McGowan said the mid-year financial review, which is expected to be handed down in the coming weeks, would predict a surplus of $2.2 billion for 2021 — $1 billion more than was estimated in this year’s budget.

—

fk imagine if the Economy Expert Liberals had been in charge and done their flock immunity right, the surplus would have been like $500G, stupid Dan we mean Mark we mean

we’re richer than weather presenters over here. and we’d be a lot richer if we didn’t have the eastern states sucking off out teat.

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

The West Australian Government has committed $1.8 billion to a new women’s and babies’ hospital for Perth, following a larger-than-expected forecast surplus for next financial year.

WA Premier Mark McGowan said the mid-year financial review, which is expected to be handed down in the coming weeks, would predict a surplus of $2.2 billion for 2021 — $1 billion more than was estimated in this year’s budget.

—

fk imagine if the Economy Expert Liberals had been in charge and done their flock immunity right, the surplus would have been like $500G, stupid Dan we mean Mark we mean

we’re richer than weather presenters over here. and we’d be a lot richer if we didn’t have the eastern states sucking off out teat.

our

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

sibeen said:

I am. I’ve brought them up well, despite the concerns of some here :)

>cough< most >cough<

I never felt the need to show any concern. They seemed like good kids to me.

Roughy, just go with me on this, it’s gunna be fun, I promise. His left eye is already twitching…

Rule 303 said:

roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

>cough< most >cough<

I never felt the need to show any concern. They seemed like good kids to me.

Roughy, just go with me on this, it’s gunna be fun, I promise. His left eye is already twitching…

;)

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

buffy said:

>>The staff of the Russian vaccine research institute have all be vaccinated since April.<<

So, nearly 8 months. How many have come down with the virus?

None, as of a month ago.

Correction. None, as of October 5. I haven’t heard since then.

Russia has started a new wave since then, I think.

I include this here, not because CPMs are necessarily any good, but they may be more easily available than the highly regulated western medicines.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2020.01066/full

“Chinese Patent Medicines (CPMs) in the Treatment of Coronavirus.”

“Specific CPMs have been widely employed to treat COVID-19 with remarkable therapeutic effects. CPMs are approved by the State Food and Drug Administration and processed according to prescribed methods using Chinese herbal medicines as raw materials. They are available in different dosage forms, such as pill, tablet, capsule, granule, or injection. The use of CPMs is guided by syndrome differentiation and overall analysis of signs and symptoms.”

The top 10 and their use are:

Bad News: In The Republic Of CHINA, COVID-19 Elimination Means We Can No Longer Let It Rip For Measles, Rubella, Pertussis Or Severe Influenza To Achieve Herd Immunity

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30724-6/fulltext
⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

Oh well, at least we can still try to get Hib or Hantavirus to Cull The Weak For The Economy Must Grow!

Culled mink rise from the dead to Denmark’s horror

Carcasses rose to surface at improvised mass grave owing to gases from decomposition

Dead mink are rising from their graves in Denmark after a rushed cull over fears of a coronavirus mutation led to thousands being slaughtered and buried in shallow pits – from which some are now emerging.

SCIENCE said:

Bad News: In The Republic Of CHINA, COVID-19 Elimination Means We Can No Longer Let It Rip For Measles, Rubella, Pertussis Or Severe Influenza To Achieve Herd Immunity

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30724-6/fulltext
⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

Oh well, at least we can still try to get Hib or Hantavirus to Cull The Weak For The Economy Must Grow!

I expect Q fever is running rampant in the US of A atm.

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Bad News: In The Republic Of CHINA, COVID-19 Elimination Means We Can No Longer Let It Rip For Measles, Rubella, Pertussis Or Severe Influenza To Achieve Herd Immunity

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30724-6/fulltext
⚠ this post may contain satirical elements

Oh well, at least we can still try to get Hib or Hantavirus to Cull The Weak For The Economy Must Grow!

I expect Q fever is running rampant in the US of A atm.

gaining traction here as well.

NSW Gold Standard

SCIENCE said:

NSW Gold Standard

Liberal state government, so there will be minimal press outrage.

Experts have questioned the widespread use of experimental vaccines in China given its epidemic is largely under control.

Let us guess, would that be the same experts who question the widespread use of childhood immunisations in Australia given when was the last time any of you saw measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, varicella, autism, 5G, rainbows, chemtrails, wtfevers.

SCIENCE said:

Experts have questioned the widespread use of experimental vaccines in China given its epidemic is largely under control.

Let us guess, would that be the same experts who question the widespread use of childhood immunisations in Australia given when was the last time any of you saw measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, varicella, autism, 5G, rainbows, chemtrails, wtfevers.

Isn’t it a question of safety of ‘experimental’ vaccines?

SCIENCE said:

Experts have questioned the widespread use of experimental vaccines in China given its epidemic is largely under control.

Let us guess, would that be the same experts who question the widespread use of childhood immunisations in Australia given when was the last time any of you saw measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, varicella, autism, 5G, rainbows, chemtrails, wtfevers.

pertussis, not poliomyelitis, our bad

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Experts have questioned the widespread use of experimental vaccines in China given its epidemic is largely under control.

Let us guess, would that be the same experts who question the widespread use of childhood immunisations in Australia given when was the last time any of you saw measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, varicella, autism, 5G, rainbows, chemtrails, wtfevers.

Isn’t it a question of safety of ‘experimental’ vaccines?

I agree. There is a valid reason to question the current crop of vaccines when the outbreak is largely contained.

Dark Orange said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Experts have questioned the widespread use of experimental vaccines in China given its epidemic is largely under control.

Let us guess, would that be the same experts who question the widespread use of childhood immunisations in Australia given when was the last time any of you saw measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, varicella, autism, 5G, rainbows, chemtrails, wtfevers.

Isn’t it a question of safety of ‘experimental’ vaccines?

I agree. There is a valid reason to question the current crop of vaccines when the outbreak is largely contained.

fair, they do seem to be getting 100 or so cases à say and there’s a lot of people there

and fearful people

but maybe they’re lying about the “experimental” bit

also if they test it on 1000000 dudes then 25000000 Real Aussies might think that’s widespread but it’d be like us testing 18000 Real Aussies, a fair sample for a trial hmm

and if you don’t have any cases then you’d have to power up your study with even more sample to see a statistically significant effect right …¿

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

He can’t have. That doesn’t exist.

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

And 1. Do we believe him? and 2. would anybody be surprised?

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

Blows his nose and wipes it all over his face
farts in public
no wonder

Tau.Neutrino said:

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

Blows his nose and wipes it all over his face
farts in public
no wonder

“@RudyGiuliani, by far the greatest mayor in the history of NYC, and who has been working tirelessly exposing the most corrupt election (by far!) in the history of the USA, has tested positive for the China Virus,” Mr Trump said.

“Get better soon Rudy, we will carry on!!!”

By far..t!

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

I hope it doesn’t further impair his mental accuity

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

Blows his nose and wipes it all over his face
farts in public
no wonder

“@RudyGiuliani, by far the greatest mayor in the history of NYC, and who has been working tirelessly exposing the most corrupt election (by far!) in the history of the USA, has tested positive for the China Virus,” Mr Trump said.

“Get better soon Rudy, we will carry on!!!”

By far..t!

Still calling it the “China virus” hey.

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

And 1. Do we believe him? and 2. would anybody be surprised?

I’m not sure I believe Trump had it. But no, I’m not surprised.

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

And 1. Do we believe him? and 2. would anybody be surprised?

I’m not sure I believe Trump had it. But no, I’m not surprised.

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

And 1. Do we believe him? and 2. would anybody be surprised?

I’m not sure I believe Trump had it. But no, I’m not surprised.

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

Trump’s saying his right hand man, Giuliani, has COVID.

I hope it doesn’t further impair his mental accuity

Puppets can’t get ill.
Puppets don’t have any mental acuity.

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

I’m not sure I believe Trump had it. But no, I’m not surprised.

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The symptoms are so vague, they are readily actable. Fever is difficult, but you don’t have to have fever. People are being asked to be tested for a cough, any cough. Sore throat, any sore throat. I’ll give you the testing is harder to fudge, but this man has something over a hell of a lot of people.

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

I’m not sure I believe Trump had it. But no, I’m not surprised.

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The amazing drug he was given is from a company he’s invested in for more than a decade.

I have no problem believing there’s mass deception, he’s deceived at least 74 million Americans.

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

And 1. Do we believe him? and 2. would anybody be surprised?

I’m not sure I believe Trump had it. But no, I’m not surprised.

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

I’d say that is correct.

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

I’m not sure I believe Trump had it. But no, I’m not surprised.

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

Everything surrounding Trump, seems unlikely.

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The symptoms are so vague, they are readily actable. Fever is difficult, but you don’t have to have fever. People are being asked to be tested for a cough, any cough. Sore throat, any sore throat. I’ll give you the testing is harder to fudge, but this man has something over a hell of a lot of people.

But of course, the most difficult bit to rationalize for Trump is that apparently he caught something that doesn’t exist. (As someone said of Guiliani in this thread). It’s a real problem to work out how he can have had it, when he firmly believes it doesn’t exist.

Divine Angel said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The amazing drug he was given is from a company he’s invested in for more than a decade.

I have no problem believing there’s mass deception, he’s deceived at least 74 million Americans.

They wanted to believe. I mean the believe he was sent by god.

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The symptoms are so vague, they are readily actable. Fever is difficult, but you don’t have to have fever. People are being asked to be tested for a cough, any cough. Sore throat, any sore throat. I’ll give you the testing is harder to fudge, but this man has something over a hell of a lot of people.

OTOH it would hardly be surprising that he genuinely caught the Covid, given that he took so few precautions and so many of his circle also caught it.

buffy said:

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The symptoms are so vague, they are readily actable. Fever is difficult, but you don’t have to have fever. People are being asked to be tested for a cough, any cough. Sore throat, any sore throat. I’ll give you the testing is harder to fudge, but this man has something over a hell of a lot of people.

But of course, the most difficult bit to rationalize for Trump is that apparently he caught something that doesn’t exist. (As someone said of Guiliani in this thread). It’s a real problem to work out how he can have had it, when he firmly believes it doesn’t exist.

Yes. and I was that someone. ;)

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The symptoms are so vague, they are readily actable. Fever is difficult, but you don’t have to have fever. People are being asked to be tested for a cough, any cough. Sore throat, any sore throat. I’ll give you the testing is harder to fudge, but this man has something over a hell of a lot of people.

OTOH it would hardly be surprising that he genuinely caught the Covid, given that he took so few precautions and so many of his circle also caught it.

Also correct.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/oregeon-medical-steven-latulippeboard-covid-19-license-suspended_n_5fcb1644c5b619bc4c332729

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/oregeon-medical-steven-latulippeboard-covid-19-license-suspended_n_5fcb1644c5b619bc4c332729

Good!

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/oregeon-medical-steven-latulippeboard-covid-19-license-suspended_n_5fcb1644c5b619bc4c332729

Good!

There should be some greater punishment like deportation to Manus.

Sam Neill said, “I’ve got calluses up my nose”.

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

We don’t think he had it either. He’s a reality TV person, after all.

There would have had to be various other people involved in the deception, including medical people, which seems unlikely.

The symptoms are so vague, they are readily actable. Fever is difficult, but you don’t have to have fever. People are being asked to be tested for a cough, any cough. Sore throat, any sore throat. I’ll give you the testing is harder to fudge, but this man has something over a hell of a lot of people.

No Medical Practitioner Ever Told A Lie

SCIENCE said:

No Medical Practitioner Ever Told A Lie

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/oregeon-medical-steven-latulippeboard-covid-19-license-suspended_n_5fcb1644c5b619bc4c332729

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

No Medical Practitioner Ever Told A Lie

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/oregeon-medical-steven-latulippeboard-covid-19-license-suspended_n_5fcb1644c5b619bc4c332729

“I want to expose what I call corona mania,” LaTulippe declared

LOL

The documents noted that he allegedly told a patient seeking guidance about COVID-19 in July that asymptomatic people should not get tested and that a mask does not prevent transmission. According to NBC, LaTulippe allegedly told the patient not to self-isolate because exposure to others would somehow “provide immunity” to the coronavirus.

—

so he’s basically giving advice that was the standard of practice 5 months ago, seems a bit extreme to shut down someone just on that

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

No Medical Practitioner Ever Told A Lie

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/oregeon-medical-steven-latulippeboard-covid-19-license-suspended_n_5fcb1644c5b619bc4c332729

“I want to expose what I call corona mania,” LaTulippe declared

LOL

Do you think he was telling any lies?

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/oregeon-medical-steven-latulippeboard-covid-19-license-suspended_n_5fcb1644c5b619bc4c332729

“I want to expose what I call corona mania,” LaTulippe declared

LOL

Do you think he was telling any lies?

maybe but we’re sure he’s not the only one, the idea that it’s unlikely for many medical practitioners to participate in deception is already a medical practitioner deception

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-07/who-is-exempt-from-hotel-quarantine-after-entering-australia/12956220

I found this interesting. It seems quite logical.

Every day for weeks if not months (I haven’t been keeping track) nation after nation and state after state beats the previous days records for new infections/deaths.
This isn’t going to be over anytime soon

Cymek said:

Every day for weeks if not months (I haven’t been keeping track) nation after nation and state after state beats the previous days records for new infections/deaths.
This isn’t going to be over anytime soon

freedom

What would this so called expert know, this is just some mild ‘flu’, he’s only good at HIV AIDS

—

“Two people who should have been in quarantine got on a plane full of people travelling from Sydney to Melbourne … where would we be if they had been positive?

“It would have spread into Melbourne, the internal borders would go up again, the economic recovery would be disrupted, lockdowns would come back.

“You might as well call that Ruby Princess 2.”

Professor Bowtell, who was one of the architect’s for Australia’s HIV/AIDS response, said the “learn as you go” approach isn’t good enough and authorities have had nine months and millions of dollars to build a fail-safe system.

Two international travellers who flew to Melbourne instead of going into hotel quarantine in New South Wales have returned a second negative result for COVID-19.

“The two international travellers are not showing symptoms of COVID-19 and have had no known contact with a positive coronavirus case,” Victoria’s Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) said in a statement.

“They will remain in mandatory quarantine for 14 days and will be tested again on day 11 of their quarantine.”

The pair are German-Australian dual citizens, and it is believed a misunderstanding with a police officer at the airport contributed to the mistake.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-07/second-negative-test-for-two-travellers-from-germany/12958688

We give everyone 24 hours before some fucking genius out there pipes up and tells us that “see this means they didn’t need to be quarantined and we don’t need borders after all” instead of holy shit that was close can everyone actually try to do better please.

SCIENCE said:

Two international travellers who flew to Melbourne instead of going into hotel quarantine in New South Wales have returned a second negative result for COVID-19.

“The two international travellers are not showing symptoms of COVID-19 and have had no known contact with a positive coronavirus case,” Victoria’s Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) said in a statement.

“They will remain in mandatory quarantine for 14 days and will be tested again on day 11 of their quarantine.”

The pair are German-Australian dual citizens, and it is believed a misunderstanding with a police officer at the airport contributed to the mistake.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-07/second-negative-test-for-two-travellers-from-germany/12958688

We give everyone 24 hours before some fucking genius out there pipes up and tells us that “see this means they didn’t need to be quarantined and we don’t need borders after all” instead of holy shit that was close can everyone actually try to do better please.

Nods.

monkey skipper said:

On the radio today on my drive into work they were discussing how there is some stored blood donations that were collected back in earlier period maybe earlier that test positive for Covid in the UK which may mean that covid was indeed spreading earlier that what everybody realises.

There’s also a computational study (read: not “real life”) out there suggesting that some of the vaccines won’t be as effective in nonwhite populations, especially ASIANS. SARS-CoV-2 spreading earlier than realised, and then appearing in an ASIAN country … coincidence ¿ we think not ¿¿

Speaking of vaccines, here’s some more Good News For Freedom

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/us/politics/anti-vax-scientist-senate-hearing.html

Anti-Vaccine Doctor Has Been Invited to Testify Before Senate Committee

Second Generation Darwin Awards Incoming

https://www.timesofisrael.com/covid-is-harming-sperm-israeli-researchers-say-raising-infertility-worries/

Getting Ready For Pandemic 2021

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-07/lyssavirus-infection-confirmed-as-bat-discovered-with-disease/12958286

remember we were saying

HUMAN→MINKS→HUMAN transmission on mink farms in NL. 68% of the tested farm workers and/or contacts had evidence of #SARSCoV2 infection. The coronavirus mutated & even evolved within minks before transmitted back to humans—& keeps #COVID19 perpetuating.

and why should we care most of all? Two words: “vaccine escape”. If we let the #SARSCoV2 establish itself in another species permanently, there is greater chance of it long term. We cannot let this coronavirus linger on this planet and evolved in “unexpected” pathways.

Long a Holdout From Covid-19 Restrictions, Sweden Ends Its Pandemic Experiment

Government imposes mandatory measures after failing to contain new surge in infections

https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-a-holdout-from-covid-19-restrictions-sweden-ends-its-pandemic-experiment-11607261658

These Communists Are Worse Than VIETNAM CHINA Kazakhstan

from the same page, some beautiful geometry

Russia

Turkey

Netherlands

Lies

Tajikistan

anyway here’s dessert

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018767843/near-extinction-of-influenza-in-nz-as-numbers-drop-due-to-lockdown

China were poised to provide developing countries with “life-saving inoculation” against COVID-19, due to limited condition in cold-chain storage and relatively high cost of Western-developed mRNA vaccines.

“Beijing tends to talk in terms of ‘win-win’ and public goods, but it will surely leverage the provision of this life-saving technology — for commercial and diplomatic profit,” Mr Mardell told the ABC.

“ possesses something countries dearly need, and it will seek to paint the vaccine’s provision as an act of charity.

“But nothing comes for free in this world.”

—

sure but if you go on and prejudge people’s and people’s republics’ altruism and generosity with cynical perceptions and overtones then what is charity

(CNN)Florida police raided the home of a former state coronavirus data scientist on Monday, escalating a feud between the state government and a data expert who has accused officials of trying to cover up the extent of the pandemic.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement executed a search warrant Monday morning at the home of data scientist Rebekah Jones, who was fired by the state Department of Health in May. The agency is investigating whether Jones accessed a state government messaging system without authorization to urge employees to speak out about coronavirus deaths, according to an affidavit by an agent working on the case.

Jones told CNN that she hadn’t improperly accessed any state messaging system and that she lost access to her government computer accounts after she was removed from her position.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/07/us/florida-search-warrant-raid-rebekah-jones-invs/index.html

dv said:

(CNN)Florida police raided the home of a former state coronavirus data scientist on Monday, escalating a feud between the state government and a data expert who has accused officials of trying to cover up the extent of the pandemic.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement executed a search warrant Monday morning at the home of data scientist Rebekah Jones, who was fired by the state Department of Health in May. The agency is investigating whether Jones accessed a state government messaging system without authorization to urge employees to speak out about coronavirus deaths, according to an affidavit by an agent working on the case.

Jones told CNN that she hadn’t improperly accessed any state messaging system and that she lost access to her government computer accounts after she was removed from her position.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/07/us/florida-search-warrant-raid-rebekah-jones-invs/index.html

well fk

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/four-lions-infected-with-covid-19-in-barcelona-zoo/12963660

Watch how the coronavirus can spread in an office
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/watch-how-the-coronavirus-can-spread-in-an-office/12646348?nw=0

Explained: Two people ride in a car during the pandemic, which windows should they keep open?
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-two-people-ride-in-a-car-during-the-pandemic-which-windows-should-they-keep-open-7097017/

Explained: Two people ride in a car during the pandemic, which windows should they keep open?

COVID-19: persistent symptoms in one third of cases
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208111551.htm

Physicians in Geneva have shown that some of the troublesome symptoms of COVID-19 could last more than 6 weeks, even in patients without underlying risk factors.

July whoopsie:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/another-traveller-bypassed-hotel-quarantine-in-sydney/12963956

Michael V said:

July whoopsie:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/another-traveller-bypassed-hotel-quarantine-in-sydney/12963956

Puts up large sign

Work in progress

Tau.Neutrino said:

COVID-19: persistent symptoms in one third of cases
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208111551.htm

Physicians in Geneva have shown that some of the troublesome symptoms of COVID-19 could last more than 6 weeks, even in patients without underlying risk factors.

Haven’t you ever had a lingering cold? Six weeks is not that unusual for things to still be not quite back to normal. Yes, yes, I know two weeks if you treat it, a fortnight if you don’t. But really, colds linger in many cases. Something I had a couple of years ago, who knows if it was ‘flu, but it certainly presented like it, weakened my muscles for 6 to 8 weeks, to the point that I was considering buying lighter handweights because I had concluded I must be ageing. Then it just all popped back to normal.

For your edification. Read the comments too, he gets interesting commenters. Rarely anything rabid, and often interesting further links/information.

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/12/06/why-did-sweden-have-more-covid-deaths-than-its-neighbors/

And another interesting comment piece in British Medical Journal.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4456

Michael V said:

July whoopsie:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/another-traveller-bypassed-hotel-quarantine-in-sydney/12963956

Nobody’s perfect you know, they’re only Gold Standard,

from that link

When questioned by the ABC this morning, NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian said she wasn’t aware of the incident but said “mistakes are going to happen”. We only need to hear about it if it leads to 10000 more cases.

“The important thing is, we have to accept that human error and mistakes are going happen,” Ms Berejiklian said. especially if the states are run by Labor, then they’re extra human and make much bigger mistakes!

“What we need to do is make sure as soon as we know they happen that everybody who is at risk or who may have been a close contact of that person is contacted.” and find a way to blame it back on Dan.

mollwollfumble said:

so now we’re going to kill neonates, don’t worry, they’re all going to die anyway

SCIENCE said:

mollwollfumble said:

so now we’re going to kill neonates, don’t worry, they’re all going to die anyway

Could be that they are just experiencing hay fever, which is normal, which under usual circumstances would go unremarked upon except now parents are freaking out – which is also normal but now manifesting in different ways…

furious said:

SCIENCE said:

mollwollfumble said:

so now we’re going to kill neonates, don’t worry, they’re all going to die anyway

Could be that they are just experiencing hay fever, which is normal, which under usual circumstances would go unremarked upon except now parents are freaking out – which is also normal but now manifesting in different ways…

or even just encouraged to report more yes, note how mollwollfumble has conveniently cropped at “aligns with a sharp rise

Actual video of what Bill Gates will do with your grandma once he has microchipped her with a vaccine.

and we saw this yesterday, it’s started

SCIENCE said:

and we saw this yesterday, it’s started

Well there’s the reason for the spike in young kids’ coughs and colds then.

buffy said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

COVID-19: persistent symptoms in one third of cases
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208111551.htm

Physicians in Geneva have shown that some of the troublesome symptoms of COVID-19 could last more than 6 weeks, even in patients without underlying risk factors.

Haven’t you ever had a lingering cold? Six weeks is not that unusual for things to still be not quite back to normal. Yes, yes, I know two weeks if you treat it, a fortnight if you don’t. But really, colds linger in many cases. Something I had a couple of years ago, who knows if it was ‘flu, but it certainly presented like it, weakened my muscles for 6 to 8 weeks, to the point that I was considering buying lighter handweights because I had concluded I must be ageing. Then it just all popped back to normal.

I carried atypical TB for about 30 years before it was noticed.

buffy said:

For your edification. Read the comments too, he gets interesting commenters. Rarely anything rabid, and often interesting further links/information.

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/12/06/why-did-sweden-have-more-covid-deaths-than-its-neighbors/

As always this guy is citing specially selected studies to back up his preconceived beliefs: The very opposite of good science.

Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

For your edification. Read the comments too, he gets interesting commenters. Rarely anything rabid, and often interesting further links/information.

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/12/06/why-did-sweden-have-more-covid-deaths-than-its-neighbors/

As always this guy is citing specially selected studies to back up his preconceived beliefs: The very opposite of good science.

Completely unlike all the journalists who are having their say…

;)

dv said:

Actual video of what Bill Gates will do with your grandma once he has microchipped her with a vaccine.

:)

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

they’re probably invite only…

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

Wouldn’t the CSIRO secret lab running out of Arkham Asylum being upset and use him as a subject

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

Consider when you read about previous vaccine testing and rollout (polio for example) were are extremely strict now.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

It has been I think. Instead of the usual practice of evaluating vaccine trials after they have finished those underway now have been studied as the results came in concurrent with ongoing studies of efficacy.

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

Consider when you read about previous vaccine testing and rollout (polio for example) were are extremely strict now.

then there was variolation….

“The procedure was most commonly carried out by inserting/rubbing powdered smallpox scabs or fluid from pustules into superficial scratches made in the skin. “

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

It has been I think. Instead of the usual practice of evaluating vaccine trials after they have finished those underway now have been studied as the results came in concurrent with ongoing studies of efficacy.

If the brakes had been applied sooner, in regards to spread, they could have took a bit more time. But the economy must grow, so…

furious said:

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

Consider when you read about previous vaccine testing and rollout (polio for example) were are extremely strict now.

then there was variolation….

“The procedure was most commonly carried out by inserting/rubbing powdered smallpox scabs or fluid from pustules into superficial scratches made in the skin. “

I was just the other night thinking about my smallpox vaccination scar. The technique was quite similar – rubbing live cowpox virus into a deliberately made scratch.

The world no longer needs vaccination against smallpox.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

It’s a risk/reward calculation. The problem is that even a very good risk to reward ratio also needs to account for what the risk is. If there was a 0.5% chance that the Large Hadron Collider would form a mini-black hole which would destroy the entire planet – it’s not a very likely event at all but the consequences if things did go wrong would be beyond disastrous and so it would be unethical to build the LHC.

The risk from SARS-CoV-2 is very low. As horrible as this pandemic is, it’s not really killing that many people. If the virus was going full-Thanos and was killing half the population it would be a different story, but currently we are comparing an avoidable and low risk thing (virus) with something not avoidable (mandatory vaccination) which we don’t know the risks of in the long term because no long term testing has been carried out.

It may be that a vaccine is no more likely to have long term risks than it is that the LHC will form destructive black holes. If this is the case then Moll is probably correct and we should have been vaccinating from the day quality candidates were first made. It is notable that this is not what happened, which leads me to believe that the experts who might make such a recommendation believe the risks of the vaccines are somewhat higher than the risk on an LHC-black-hole.

esselte said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

It’s a risk/reward calculation. The problem is that even a very good risk to reward ratio also needs to account for what the risk is. If there was a 0.5% chance that the Large Hadron Collider would form a mini-black hole which would destroy the entire planet – it’s not a very likely event at all but the consequences if things did go wrong would be beyond disastrous and so it would be unethical to build the LHC.

The risk from SARS-CoV-2 is very low. As horrible as this pandemic is, it’s not really killing that many people. If the virus was going full-Thanos and was killing half the population it would be a different story, but currently we are comparing an avoidable and low risk thing (virus) with something not avoidable (mandatory vaccination) which we don’t know the risks of in the long term because no long term testing has been carried out.

It may be that a vaccine is no more likely to have long term risks than it is that the LHC will form destructive black holes. If this is the case then Moll is probably correct and we should have been vaccinating from the day quality candidates were first made. It is notable that this is not what happened, which leads me to believe that the experts who might make such a recommendation believe the risks of the vaccines are somewhat higher than the risk on an LHC-black-hole.

It’s just that I don’t want my grandkids to grow uo in a world full of autism.

esselte said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

It’s a risk/reward calculation. The problem is that even a very good risk to reward ratio also needs to account for what the risk is. If there was a 0.5% chance that the Large Hadron Collider would form a mini-black hole which would destroy the entire planet – it’s not a very likely event at all but the consequences if things did go wrong would be beyond disastrous and so it would be unethical to build the LHC.

The risk from SARS-CoV-2 is very low. As horrible as this pandemic is, it’s not really killing that many people. If the virus was going full-Thanos and was killing half the population it would be a different story, but currently we are comparing an avoidable and low risk thing (virus) with something not avoidable (mandatory vaccination) which we don’t know the risks of in the long term because no long term testing has been carried out.

It may be that a vaccine is no more likely to have long term risks than it is that the LHC will form destructive black holes. If this is the case then Moll is probably correct and we should have been vaccinating from the day quality candidates were first made. It is notable that this is not what happened, which leads me to believe that the experts who might make such a recommendation believe the risks of the vaccines are somewhat higher than the risk on an LHC-black-hole.

It is my understanding that we don’t actually know, regardless of the risk element, if the vaccines work. There seems to be some discussion around whether they protect, or just reduce symptoms. We need to know if they reduce transmission. (I think that was the gist of the discussion I read)

The Rev Dodgson said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’d like to post some of my cartoons to an anti-vaxer facebook page. Just for fun. Know any really awfully bad anti-vaxer facebook pages?

Wouldn’t you have more fun trolling pro-vaxxers with your outlandish ideas about vaccine development?

That reminds me.

Whilst not having a totally moll opinion on the question of how much testing to do before starting mass vaccination, given the current high death rate, it does seem a reasonable question:

What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

During pandemic conditions surely that period would be considerably shorter than for normal conditions.

> What is the optimum period of testing before allowing mass use of a new vaccine?

You need to define “mass”. By “mass” do you mean 1,000, 10,000, 100,000, a million, ten million, a hundred million or a billion doses? It makes a huge different to the answer to your question. One lesson from 1976 is that you never “mass” release a vaccine without ramping up to it.

You also need to distinguish between an oral dead vaccine, an iv dead vaccine, an oral live vaccine and an iv live vaccine.

There’s also the grey region between testing and general release. There’s no reason why they can’t be synchronous, in that the first 10,000 recipients of the general release are medically monitored as if they were clinical test subjects.

Let’s suppose that there exists such a thing as an oral dead vaccine (I don’t think there is, but it’s a good thought exercise in leading up to a general answer). Then you test it for immediate toxicity the exact same way that you would test any unknown food. That is dose 0.1 microlitre, wait two hours then, if no adverse effects, 1 microlitre, wait two hours then, if no adverse effects, 10 microlitre, wait two hours then, if no adverse effects, 100 microlitre, wait two hours then, if no adverse effects, final dosage. Acute toxicity testing all over in one day.

Different, but not too different, for iv dead vaccine (like ALL flu vaccines). For live virus as an oral or iv dose, much more time for acute toxicity testing is required.

Because this is going to be a single (or at most two) dose drug, long term accumulation of toxin (eg. as seen in lead, mercury, and maintenance drugs) is not a problem, so that makes required testing for toxic effect much easier and shorter for dead virus vaccines than, say, anti-depressants.

ie. Testing of dead virus vaccine for toxicity can be completed a couple of days. Except for pregnant women, that takes about 1 month.

But you do NOT mass release, you ramp it up. You release 100 vaccine doses in 1 month, 10,000 doses in 2 months, a million doses in 3 months, 100 million doses in 4 months. That gives plenty of time for testing effectiveness, because effectiveness is apparent in 6 to 12 days.

General release is synchronous with Phase 3 testing (as in Russia) the following explains how it works.

Success ¡ Cruise industry coffins nailed ¡¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/passenger-on-cruise-to-nowhere-tests-positive-for-covid-19/12968086

About 2,000 passengers on a Royal Caribbean “cruise-to-nowhere” from Singapore are in quarantine in their cabins in the wake of a guest on the Quantum of the Seas ship testing positive to coronavirus.

The “cruises to nowhere” from Singapore resumed last week

These are Royal Caribbean’s first voyages since March

The positive case is a setback for Singapore’s plan for a travel-bubble with Hong Kong

Singapore has been piloting the trips, which make no stops and sail in waters just off the city-state.

SCIENCE said:

Success ¡ Cruise industry coffins nailed ¡¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/passenger-on-cruise-to-nowhere-tests-positive-for-covid-19/12968086

About 2,000 passengers on a Royal Caribbean “cruise-to-nowhere” from Singapore are in quarantine in their cabins in the wake of a guest on the Quantum of the Seas ship testing positive to coronavirus.

The “cruises to nowhere” from Singapore resumed last week

These are Royal Caribbean’s first voyages since March

The positive case is a setback for Singapore’s plan for a travel-bubble with Hong Kong

Singapore has been piloting the trips, which make no stops and sail in waters just off the city-state.

I think it going to be a long long time before people start to trust cruise ships again.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

Success ¡ Cruise industry coffins nailed ¡¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/passenger-on-cruise-to-nowhere-tests-positive-for-covid-19/12968086

About 2,000 passengers on a Royal Caribbean “cruise-to-nowhere” from Singapore are in quarantine in their cabins in the wake of a guest on the Quantum of the Seas ship testing positive to coronavirus.

The “cruises to nowhere” from Singapore resumed last week

These are Royal Caribbean’s first voyages since March

The positive case is a setback for Singapore’s plan for a travel-bubble with Hong Kong

Singapore has been piloting the trips, which make no stops and sail in waters just off the city-state.

I think it going to be a long long time before people start to trust cruise ships again.

Certainly cruise ships are not an ideal place to discover positive cases but with only 2000 guests at a time I don’t know if they’re much worse than shopping centres or casinos or indoor sporting matches. It’s more people going on them when there are existing cases in the community that is problematic IMO. The Singapore-Hong Kong travel bubble should also be subject to greater scrutiny too I reckon.

If Australia remains free of community transmission for the next few months I’d be happy to take a cruise limited to Australian waters in the new year.

Its probably come from the staff they are using.

Furious Merkel says German death rate ‘unacceptable’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/dec/09/coronavirus-live-news-uk-science-chief-warns-britons-may-still-need-masks-next-winter-rudy-giuliani-to-leave-hospital

If only she had some influence. A little say.

sibeen said:

Furious Merkel says German death rate ‘unacceptable’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/dec/09/coronavirus-live-news-uk-science-chief-warns-britons-may-still-need-masks-next-winter-rudy-giuliani-to-leave-hospital

If only she had some influence. A little say.

Well fuck me, I read the article before commenting. She was being heckled by some right wing party MPs who deny the virus is serious and oppose lockdowns. She got mad at them.

Before reading the article I was thinking that if she told me sternly not die I wouldn’t bloody dare. But it seems that she is not angry at people for dying.

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

Furious Merkel says German death rate ‘unacceptable’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/dec/09/coronavirus-live-news-uk-science-chief-warns-britons-may-still-need-masks-next-winter-rudy-giuliani-to-leave-hospital

If only she had some influence. A little say.

Well fuck me, I read the article before commenting. She was being heckled by some right wing party MPs who deny the virus is serious and oppose lockdowns. She got mad at them.

Before reading the article I was thinking that if she told me sternly not die I wouldn’t bloody dare. But it seems that she is not angry at people for dying.

She said everyone was experiencing a “rollercoaster of emotions”. The optimism of the vaccines was coupled with the realisation that the crisis was far from over.

Although a “lockdown lite” introduced in November had slowed the dramatic exponential growth of the virus in Germany, the number of cases was still far too high, and especially disturbing was the number of hospitalisations and the high death rate. She compared the figures from Tuesday 29 September with those of today to illustrate the seriousness of the situation. On 29 September there were 1,827 new cases, 352 ICU beds occupied (with Covid-19 patients), and 12 deaths.

Today, there are 20,815 cases, 3,500 more than a week ago, 4,257 ICU beds occupied (with Covid-19 patients) and 590 deaths, she said. Her conclusion was that the number of contacts is “far too high”. Amid heckling calls from the ranks of the far-right Alternative für Deutschland, she responded: “That’s the problem – people say it’s not so bad … but I believe quite simply that the scientific knowledge is real and it is this we should be using to guide us.”

Merkel gave an insight into her decision to become a physicist in the communist dictatorship of East Germany, a career she would probably not have chosen had she lived in the democracy of western Germany, she said, alluding to a regime which lied to its citizens, and equating it with those who seek to downplay the virus or suggest it is a fiction. “I was sure that there are many things that one can overrule,” she said. “But certainly not gravity, and not the speed of light … and that will continue to be the case.” Whilst heckles continued to come from the floor, a large number of MPs warmly applauded her.

The usually calm and collected Merkel then became increasingly furious in tone, even visibly shaking, as she stabbed the air, saying the current number of deaths was “unacceptable”.

And whilst measures like keeping distance and wearing masks might seem “inhuman”, they are, she added: “Not something which is going to destroy our lives.” She said that much as it pained her, in order to save lives she said she saw little alternative than to reduce all contacts as much as possible even during the Christmas period, and proposed an earlier break for Christmas followed by a tight shutdown into the new year, which would involve the closure of schools, workplaces and non-essential shops.

oh well at least some good news in an update on previous

SINGAPORE – The 83-year-old man on board Royal Caribbean’s Quantum of the Seas cruise ship has tested negative for Covid-19, said the Ministry of Health (MOH) on Wednesday night (Dec 9).

Earlier, the MOH announced that the man had tested positive for the Covid-19 infection on Wednesday morning, and was immediately isolated.

His original PCR sample was retested at the National Public Health Laboratory (NPHL) and came back negative for Covid-19 infection, the MOH said. A second fresh sample was tested and also found to be negative.

—

No doubt there were complaints and twisted voices screaming from the sidelines about how this probable-false-positive is unacceptable and everyone wants their money back and safety is an infringement of human rights, but they’re not in the articles we’ve seen so far.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

In participants who received two standard doses, vaccine efficacy was 62·1% (95% CI 41·0–75·7; 27 of 4440 in the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 group vs71 of 4455 in the control group) and in participants who received a low dose followed by a standard dose, efficacy was 90·0% (67·4–97·0; three of 1367 vs 30 of 1374; pinteraction=0·010). Overall vaccine efficacy across both groups was 70·4% (95·8% CI 54·8–80·6; 30 of 5807 vs 101 of 5829). From 21 days after the first dose, there were ten cases hospitalised for COVID-19, all in the control arm; two were classified as severe COVID-19, including one death.

Sewage testing can reveal the genetic fingerprint of coronavirus up to three weeks before cases are reported through clinical testing, an Australian-first study has found. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/csiro-sewage-covid-19-australian-study-wastewater/12967618

Genomic testing shows spread of Novotel, Ryde Hospital coronavirus cases
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/genomic-testing-shows-spread-of-novotel,-ryde-hospital-covid-19/12965730

Divine Angel said:

It was the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history; 2,977 died.

Now, COVID-19 has trumped that grim marker, with more than 3,000 people dying with the disease on Wednesday (local time), according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

Probably a valid case to be made somewhere in that Donald is a terrorist and that 2001-09-11 thing is no longer the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history.

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

It was the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history; 2,977 died.

Now, COVID-19 has trumped that grim marker, with more than 3,000 people dying with the disease on Wednesday (local time), according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

Probably a valid case to be made somewhere in that Donald is a terrorist and that 2001-09-11 thing is no longer the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history.

I imagine Covid is on track to kill more of them than WW2 and that’s with a half arsed approach to containment

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

It was the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history; 2,977 died.

Now, COVID-19 has trumped that grim marker, with more than 3,000 people dying with the disease on Wednesday (local time), according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

Probably a valid case to be made somewhere in that Donald is a terrorist and that 2001-09-11 thing is no longer the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history.

I imagine Covid is on track to kill more of them than WW2 and that’s with a half arsed approach to containment

And they’ve passed that milestone now:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

More than 3,000 deaths on Wednesday (US time, ref Johns Hopkins)

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

It was the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history; 2,977 died.

Now, COVID-19 has trumped that grim marker, with more than 3,000 people dying with the disease on Wednesday (local time), according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

Probably a valid case to be made somewhere in that Donald is a terrorist and that 2001-09-11 thing is no longer the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history.

I imagine Covid is on track to kill more of them than WW2 and that’s with a half arsed approach to containment

Realistically, how well was America going to handle lockdown of the kind we had here? We don’t have guns.

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

It was the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history; 2,977 died.

Now, COVID-19 has trumped that grim marker, with more than 3,000 people dying with the disease on Wednesday (local time), according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

Probably a valid case to be made somewhere in that Donald is a terrorist and that 2001-09-11 thing is no longer the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history.

I imagine Covid is on track to kill more of them than WW2 and that’s with a half arsed approach to containment

oh don’t worry unlike a coupla little gliders popping into some apartments, these little virus things stay plenty airborne and it ain’t just gunna let up instantly overnight

maybe boss boy can just declare War On Corona and then hit the other guys in the region, follow up a war they didn’t complete a few years back, bomb VIETNAM or something, they have oil for the taking right, call it régime change or Wuhan Médical Disaster or some other WMD BS

Divine Angel said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

It was the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history; 2,977 died.

Now, COVID-19 has trumped that grim marker, with more than 3,000 people dying with the disease on Wednesday (local time), according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

Probably a valid case to be made somewhere in that Donald is a terrorist and that 2001-09-11 thing is no longer the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history.

I imagine Covid is on track to kill more of them than WW2 and that’s with a half arsed approach to containment

Realistically, how well was America going to handle lockdown of the kind we had here? We don’t have guns.

Without being horrible they way some of them act it’s how it was always going to turn out.

USA is relentlessly climbing up the deaths per million table. Now at number 11.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

Cymek said:

I imagine Covid is on track to kill more of them than WW2 and that’s with a half arsed approach to containment

Realistically, how well was America going to handle lockdown of the kind we had here? We don’t have guns.

Without being horrible they way some of them act it’s how it was always going to turn out.

All Pro-Life Matter

And the Thanksgiving bubble is about to start rising too.

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

It was the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history; 2,977 died.

Now, COVID-19 has trumped that grim marker, with more than 3,000 people dying with the disease on Wednesday (local time), according to data collected by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/coronavirus-us-marks-deadliest-day-since-september-11/12953842

Probably a valid case to be made somewhere in that Donald is a terrorist and that 2001-09-11 thing is no longer the single deadliest terrorist attack in human history.

I imagine Covid is on track to kill more of them than WW2 and that’s with a half arsed approach to containment

oh don’t worry unlike a coupla little gliders popping into some apartments, these little virus things stay plenty airborne and it ain’t just gunna let up instantly overnight

maybe boss boy can just declare War On Corona and then hit the other guys in the region, follow up a war they didn’t complete a few years back, bomb VIETNAM or something, they have oil for the taking right, call it régime change or Wuhan Médical Disaster or some other WMD BS

That’s what I mean it could drag on for numerous months before it even looks like its slowing down (not stopping) and could very well restart with a mutated version or two/three

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

Realistically, how well was America going to handle lockdown of the kind we had here? We don’t have guns.

Without being horrible they way some of them act it’s how it was always going to turn out.

All Pro-Life Matter

That sort of thing yes, self contradictory behaviour when it comes to the sanctity of life

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

Without being horrible they way some of them act it’s how it was always going to turn out.

All Pro-Life Matter

That sort of thing yes, self contradictory behaviour when it comes to the sanctity of life

Abortions are Murder but get off my lawn *BANG *

Divine Angel said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

All Pro-Life Matter

That sort of thing yes, self contradictory behaviour when it comes to the sanctity of life

Abortions are Murder but get off my lawn *BANG *

Maybe they need to frame unwanted pregnancies as trespassing…

Do chemists normally sell Isopropyl alcohol?

sibeen said:

Do chemists normally sell Isopropyl alcohol?

Yes although I haven’t seen any since before covid

sibeen said:

Do chemists normally sell Isopropyl alcohol?

Chemists buy it. Pharmacists sell it…

And more of Sebastian Rushworth. Reviewing a preprint on medRxiv about immunity after infection. Some problems with the paper, and not yet peer reviewed or published, but some information none the less.

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/12/09/how-long-does-immunity-to-covid-last/

he includes a link to the paper if you want to read it yourself.

Mediwipes. I’ve got a couple of boxes here that I kept after I closed the practice. I used them for disinfecting tonometer probes and the back of the refractor head (because it sits against the patients face). We also used them for the resuscitation mannequins, although that had been changing more recently.

buffy said:

Mediwipes. I’ve got a couple of boxes here that I kept after I closed the practice. I used them for disinfecting tonometer probes and the back of the refractor head (because it sits against the patients face). We also used them for the resuscitation mannequins, although that had been changing more recently.

They are the little square wipe things they use to wipe your skin before an injection.

What do you want it for?

You can usually find it in a big green bottle with a crocodile on it. I forget the name.

On an average day last year, 7600 people died in the USA and some 10300 people were born, for a natural increase of 2700 per day.

But the population increased by 4200 per day. There is 1500 net migrationsper day: there are 3200 immigrants per day, 1700 emigrants.

Migration has slowed this year, probably births are about the same.

There were 3260 covid-19 deaths yesterday.

—-

Consider that in mid October, the number of deaths due to Covid 19 that had been recorded in the US was 216025. However the number of excess deaths in the year to date at that time was estimated to be 299000 by the CDC.

dv said:

On an average day last year, 7600 people died in the USA and some 10300 people were born, for a natural increase of 2700 per day.

But the population increased by 4200 per day. There is 1500 net migrationsper day: there are 3200 immigrants per day, 1700 emigrants.

Migration has slowed this year, probably births are about the same.

There were 3260 covid-19 deaths yesterday.

—-

Consider that in mid October, the number of deaths due to Covid 19 that had been recorded in the US was 216025. However the number of excess deaths in the year to date at that time was estimated to be 299000 by the CDC.

So when are those damn boomers going to start dying sufficiently quickly to balance the births and deaths?

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

On an average day last year, 7600 people died in the USA and some 10300 people were born, for a natural increase of 2700 per day.

But the population increased by 4200 per day. There is 1500 net migrationsper day: there are 3200 immigrants per day, 1700 emigrants.

Migration has slowed this year, probably births are about the same.

There were 3260 covid-19 deaths yesterday.

—-

Consider that in mid October, the number of deaths due to Covid 19 that had been recorded in the US was 216025. However the number of excess deaths in the year to date at that time was estimated to be 299000 by the CDC.

So when are those damn boomers going to start dying sufficiently quickly to balance the births and deaths?

I mean…

Right now pretty much

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

On an average day last year, 7600 people died in the USA and some 10300 people were born, for a natural increase of 2700 per day.

But the population increased by 4200 per day. There is 1500 net migrationsper day: there are 3200 immigrants per day, 1700 emigrants.

Migration has slowed this year, probably births are about the same.

There were 3260 covid-19 deaths yesterday.

—-

Consider that in mid October, the number of deaths due to Covid 19 that had been recorded in the US was 216025. However the number of excess deaths in the year to date at that time was estimated to be 299000 by the CDC.

So when are those damn boomers going to start dying sufficiently quickly to balance the births and deaths?

I mean…

Right now pretty much

So we might see the population decline very slightly for the first time in many years.

party_pants said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So when are those damn boomers going to start dying sufficiently quickly to balance the births and deaths?

I mean…

Right now pretty much

So we might see the population decline very slightly for the first time in many years.

Over the whole year in the US, probably not. These coming weeks, maybe.

Kothos just shared this with me

3260 dead from covid19 in the US yesterday so it’s a bit out of date but also…

these just show deaths due to specific events or causes. The day the Galveston hurricane hit there may have been 9000 deaths in the USA.

Having said that there have been some weeks this year in which the average daily total death count from all causes in the USA was over 11000 so it might well be true that the deadliest days in US history occurred this year.
On an average day last year, 7600 Americans died.
Then again if you look at excess deaths there have been some weeks where there have been 11000 deaths per day in total. It might literally be true that the day on which most Americans died, ever, occurred this year.

dv said:

Kothos just shared this with me

Oh, so he’ll converse with you but is just too good to hang out with us. We don’t care, we were never the cool kids and not going to start now!

dv said:

Kothos just shared this with me

3260 dead from covid19 in the US yesterday so it’s a bit out of date but also…

these just show deaths due to specific events or causes. The day the Galveston hurricane hit there may have been 9000 deaths in the USA.

Having said that there have been some weeks this year in which the average daily total death count from all causes in the USA was over 11000 so it might well be true that the deadliest days in US history occurred this year.
On an average day last year, 7600 Americans died.
Then again if you look at excess deaths there have been some weeks where there have been 11000 deaths per day in total. It might literally be true that the day on which most Americans died, ever, occurred this year.

Very vague figures for the 1906 San Francisco earthquake:

Early death counts ranged from 375 to over 500. However, hundreds of fatalities in Chinatown went ignored and unrecorded. The total number of deaths is still uncertain, but various reports presented a range of 700–3,000+. In 2005, the city’s Board of Supervisors voted unanimously in support of a resolution written by novelist James Dalessandro (“1906”) and city historian Gladys Hansen (“Denial of Disaster”) to recognize the figure of 3,000 plus as the official total.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_San_Francisco_earthquake#Damage

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Kothos just shared this with me

3260 dead from covid19 in the US yesterday so it’s a bit out of date but also…

these just show deaths due to specific events or causes. The day the Galveston hurricane hit there may have been 9000 deaths in the USA.

Having said that there have been some weeks this year in which the average daily total death count from all causes in the USA was over 11000 so it might well be true that the deadliest days in US history occurred this year.
On an average day last year, 7600 Americans died.
Then again if you look at excess deaths there have been some weeks where there have been 11000 deaths per day in total. It might literally be true that the day on which most Americans died, ever, occurred this year.

Very vague figures for the 1906 San Francisco earthquake:

Early death counts ranged from 375 to over 500. However, hundreds of fatalities in Chinatown went ignored and unrecorded. The total number of deaths is still uncertain, but various reports presented a range of 700–3,000+. In 2005, the city’s Board of Supervisors voted unanimously in support of a resolution written by novelist James Dalessandro (“1906”) and city historian Gladys Hansen (“Denial of Disaster”) to recognize the figure of 3,000 plus as the official total.

That seems to be a bit silly. Sure, acknowledge that there were deaths that weren’t counted, and acknowledge that there was racist overtones as to why, but to make up an ‘official’ total seems ludicrous.

dv said:

Kothos just shared this with me

3260 dead from covid19 in the US yesterday so it’s a bit out of date but also…

these just show deaths due to specific events or causes. The day the Galveston hurricane hit there may have been 9000 deaths in the USA.

Having said that there have been some weeks this year in which the average daily total death count from all causes in the USA was over 11000 so it might well be true that the deadliest days in US history occurred this year.
On an average day last year, 7600 Americans died.
Then again if you look at excess deaths there have been some weeks where there have been 11000 deaths per day in total. It might literally be true that the day on which most Americans died, ever, occurred this year.

Just wait till mid-January, when the Covid deaths catch up to the Christmas-time super spreading event.

The Covid-19 pandemic has cut life expectancy in England and Wales by roughly a year, scientists have estimated, reversing gains made since 2010.

A study, conducted by Oxford researchers, found that life expectancy at birth (LEB) had fallen by 0.9 and 1.2 years for females and males relative to 2019 levels respectively.

Life expectancy in England and Wales had been steadily improving for 50 years before stagnating in the past decade.

“If you look at life expectancy indicators in high-income countries over the 20th century, it has really been a story of an upward trend,” said Ridhi Kashyap, an associate professor of social demography at the University of Oxford, one of the authors of the study.

“What we’re seeing now is a big interruption of the kind of magnitude that we haven’t seen in a really long time … it has been a real shock.”

more..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/10/covid-life-expectancy-england-wales

sarahs mum said:

The Covid-19 pandemic has cut life expectancy in England and Wales by roughly a year, scientists have estimated, reversing gains made since 2010.

A study, conducted by Oxford researchers, found that life expectancy at birth (LEB) had fallen by 0.9 and 1.2 years for females and males relative to 2019 levels respectively.

Life expectancy in England and Wales had been steadily improving for 50 years before stagnating in the past decade.

“If you look at life expectancy indicators in high-income countries over the 20th century, it has really been a story of an upward trend,” said Ridhi Kashyap, an associate professor of social demography at the University of Oxford, one of the authors of the study.

“What we’re seeing now is a big interruption of the kind of magnitude that we haven’t seen in a really long time … it has been a real shock.”

more..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/10/covid-life-expectancy-england-wales

Covid is nothing compared to what T2 Diabetes is doing to us. Our kids will be the first generation to have lower life expectancy than their parents.

party_pants said:

dv said:

Kothos just shared this with me

3260 dead from covid19 in the US yesterday so it’s a bit out of date but also…

these just show deaths due to specific events or causes. The day the Galveston hurricane hit there may have been 9000 deaths in the USA.

Having said that there have been some weeks this year in which the average daily total death count from all causes in the USA was over 11000 so it might well be true that the deadliest days in US history occurred this year.
On an average day last year, 7600 Americans died.
Then again if you look at excess deaths there have been some weeks where there have been 11000 deaths per day in total. It might literally be true that the day on which most Americans died, ever, occurred this year.

Just wait till mid-January, when the Covid deaths catch up to the Christmas-time super spreading event.

The covid deaths have already passed 911.

Almost one in five Americans may have been infected with covid-19
Our analysis shows that the outbreak is much worse than official numbers suggest

Dec 10th 2020

THIS WEEK America’s official tally of covid-19 cases surpassed 15m, around 5% of the population. Nearly 1.3m of those were recorded in the past seven days. But the true scale of the outbreak is almost certainly many times larger. By combining new research with official death tallies, The Economist estimates that 60m-82m people have been infected in America so far, around 3.2m of them in the past week.

It is not easy to get a handle on the spread of covid-19. Many people who are infected have no symptoms and never get tested. When they do, tests regularly give false positives and results may not even enter official tallies. Deaths are more difficult to ignore, and have no false positives. But not all deaths related to covid-19 are picked up. Our excess-deaths tracker shows that nearly a quarter of deaths in America attributable to covid-19 may go unrecorded as such. And the number of deaths associated with covid-19 offers incomplete information on the spread of infections. A small outbreak among the old may be as deadly as a larger one among the young.

One way to track infections is by using mass random tests for covid-19 antibodies, which remain in a person’s blood after they have been infected. But these “serosurveys” are limited too. They can only reveal past infections and are not 100% reliable, and antibodies can become undetectable over time.

For a more realistic estimate of cases, The Economist took a novel approach. We obtained estimates of covid-19’s infection-fatality rate (the likelihood that infection will lead to death) by age and gender from a paper recently published in Nature, which combines death tallies and seroprevalence data (the proportion of blood samples with antibodies) from 22 studies. We then combined these with the total number of covid-19 deaths by age and sex per week in America, provided by the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). (Because the study matches reported deaths to seroprevalence, the discrepancy between reported covid-19 deaths and excess deaths does not bias our estimates.) Finally, because the CDC’s breakdown of deaths is incomplete for recent weeks, and infections tend to pre-date deaths by about 14 days, we used official case data to estimate new infections in the past six weeks. To do so we assumed that the relationship between reported cases and actual infections remained similar for the past two months.

Our analysis suggests that between 18% and 24% of Americans have been infected so far, or between 60m and 82m people (see chart). This means that over the course of the pandemic, less than a quarter of infections have been recorded. This proportion has improved from just one in 12 cases being detected in March, to more than one in three now, consistent with the huge increase in testing. The overall number of infections is also consistent with national estimates of seroprevalence conducted this summer. Another study in the Lancet by researchers at Stanford University put America’s past infection rate at 9.3% in July. Since then, covid-19 deaths in the country have roughly doubled.

Earlier this week President Donald Trump described an estimated 15% infection rate as “terrific”, and repeated the idea that enough people could contract covid-19 to develop collective immunity. It is good news that many Americans have survived the disease. But even if a quarter of Americans have had covid-19, new infections are climbing quickly—the country is nowhere near herd immunity. In New York City, where past infections exceed the national average, almost 100 people with covid-19 are dying every day, and the number is rising.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/12/10/almost-one-in-five-americans-may-have-been-infected-with-covid-19?

Australian COVID vaccine terminated due to HIV ‘false positives’
Rob Harris

A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.

Rad more:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australian-covid-vaccine-terminated-due-to-hiv-false-positives-20201210-p56mju.html

Witty Rejoinder said:

Australian COVID vaccine terminated due to HIV ‘false positives’
Rob Harris

A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.

Rad more:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australian-covid-vaccine-terminated-due-to-hiv-false-positives-20201210-p56mju.html

yeah, we know.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Australian COVID vaccine terminated due to HIV ‘false positives’
Rob Harris

A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.

Rad more:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australian-covid-vaccine-terminated-due-to-hiv-false-positives-20201210-p56mju.html

Mr Mutant: it’s false positive, what’s the problem?

Divine Angel said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Australian COVID vaccine terminated due to HIV ‘false positives’
Rob Harris

A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.

Rad more:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australian-covid-vaccine-terminated-due-to-hiv-false-positives-20201210-p56mju.html

Mr Mutant: it’s false positive, what’s the problem?

The participants of the trial were told to expect false positives.

The thing I reckon was; there were too many false positives to accurately render a negative.

Divine Angel said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Australian COVID vaccine terminated due to HIV ‘false positives’
Rob Harris

A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.

Rad more:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australian-covid-vaccine-terminated-due-to-hiv-false-positives-20201210-p56mju.html

Mr Mutant: it’s false positive, what’s the problem?

Was that the trial you were in, DA?

btm said:

Divine Angel said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Australian COVID vaccine terminated due to HIV ‘false positives’
Rob Harris

A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.

Rad more:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australian-covid-vaccine-terminated-due-to-hiv-false-positives-20201210-p56mju.html

Mr Mutant: it’s false positive, what’s the problem?

Was that the trial you were in, DA?

I’m in USC.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Australian COVID vaccine terminated due to HIV ‘false positives’
Rob Harris

A billion-dollar deal for the Morrison government to buy more than 50 million doses of the University of Queensland’s potential coronavirus vaccine has been abruptly terminated after several trial participants returned false positive HIV test results.

Rad more:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australian-covid-vaccine-terminated-due-to-hiv-false-positives-20201210-p56mju.html

So my immediate thought was…why the hell would you be testing your trial participants for HIV? But I broke with forum tradition and actually read the link…here is the answer.

>>The UQ vaccine candidate used a protein and adjuvant platform, containing the COVID-19 spike protein and a “molecular clamp”. A small component is derived from the human immunodeficiency virus, known as HIV, that is not able to infect people or replicate.

A source with knowledge of the clinical results said although the HIV protein fragment posed “absolutely no health risk to people”, they had identified that some trial participants who received the vaccine produced a partial antibody response to it.

The partial antibody response had the potential to interfere with some HIV screening tests that look for the antibodies – leading to a false positive test result. It is unclear how long participants would continue to return false positive results.

The source said although all participants had been told there was a remote possibility HIV markers could be found in tests during the trial, medical researchers had not expected it to occur.

Health department secretary Brendan Murphy said the risk of a false-positive was seen to be “extremely low at the outset”.

“Everyone was very surprised at the unexpected prevalence of the false positive,” Professor Murphy said.<<

I wonder why a retrovirus fragment was being used in a coronavirus vaccine attempt.

More Americans have now died from COVID-19 than the number of US soldiers killed in battle during World War II

• The US saw 291,557 battle deaths during World War II, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs.
• As of Thursday, 291,754 Americans have now died of COVID-19.
• This means more Americans have died from COVID-19 than the number of US soldiers killed in the bloodiest war in human history.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/more-americans-dead-covid-19-us-battle-deaths-wwii-2020-12?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29&r=US&IR=T

Infected after five minutes, from six metres away: study shows COVID-19’s spread indoors

https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/infected-after-five-minutes-from-six-metres-away-study-shows-covid-19-s-spread-indoors-20201210-p56mjt.html

Witty Rejoinder said:

Infected after five minutes, from six metres away: study shows COVID-19’s spread indoors

https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/infected-after-five-minutes-from-six-metres-away-study-shows-covid-19-s-spread-indoors-20201210-p56mjt.html

That’s a revelation to the antimaskers.

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Infected after five minutes, from six metres away: study shows COVID-19’s spread indoors

https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/infected-after-five-minutes-from-six-metres-away-study-shows-covid-19-s-spread-indoors-20201210-p56mjt.html

That’s a revelation to the antimaskers.

Must have been a doozy of a wet sneeze that one…

Rudy Giuliani: I Got Special Covid Treatment Because I’m A ‘Celebrity’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVW9JEGqhfg

sarahs mum said:

Rudy Giuliani: I Got Special Covid Treatment Because I’m A ‘Celebrity’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVW9JEGqhfg

Celebrity lunatic.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Rudy Giuliani: I Got Special Covid Treatment Because I’m A ‘Celebrity’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVW9JEGqhfg

Celebrity lunatic.

It’s what makes this so much like a sci fi. There is a treatment that is effective but supply is limited. Depending on where you are the treatment goes to those with political clout or those with money or those with most need or via a lottery system.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Rudy Giuliani: I Got Special Covid Treatment Because I’m A ‘Celebrity’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVW9JEGqhfg

Celebrity lunatic.

Says a lot about social equality and their broken health system.

He is a terrible lawyer knowing that all the fraud election cases would go nowhere, but still took the money.

sarahs mum said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Rudy Giuliani: I Got Special Covid Treatment Because I’m A ‘Celebrity’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVW9JEGqhfg

Celebrity lunatic.

It’s what makes this so much like a sci fi. There is a treatment that is effective but supply is limited. Depending on where you are the treatment goes to those with political clout or those with money or those with most need or via a lottery system.

and the communists are the enemy

Germany heads for national lockdown as Covid cases rise sharply

Experts warn that delaying measures until after Christmas could cost tens of thousands of lives

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/germany-national-lockdown-covid-cases-rise

sarahs mum said:

Germany heads for national lockdown as Covid cases rise sharply

Experts warn that delaying measures until after Christmas could cost tens of thousands of lives

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/germany-national-lockdown-covid-cases-rise

Surely saint Angela kept the country ssafe?

sarahs mum said:

Germany heads for national lockdown as Covid cases rise sharply

Experts warn that delaying measures until after Christmas could cost tens of thousands of lives

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/germany-national-lockdown-covid-cases-rise

Surely saint Angela kept the country ssafe?

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

Germany heads for national lockdown as Covid cases rise sharply

Experts warn that delaying measures until after Christmas could cost tens of thousands of lives

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/germany-national-lockdown-covid-cases-rise

Surely saint Angela kept the country ssafe?

Who needs experts they’re just party poopers anyway.

speaking of poop

dv said:

Brain explodes.

What is happening in other countries before travellers come here?

Are they getting tested in other countries before they come here?

Would that speed things up a bit?

Victoria records five COVID-19 infections in hotel quarantine, no local cases

Tau.Neutrino said:

What is happening in other countries before travellers come here?

Are they getting tested in other countries before they come here?

Would that speed things up a bit?

Victoria records five COVID-19 infections in hotel quarantine, no local cases

What do airlines do with such travellers put them at the back of the plane seal them off some how from the rest of the passengers ?

Maybe its time for airlines do have separate areas for this purpose.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What is happening in other countries before travellers come here?

Are they getting tested in other countries before they come here?

Would that speed things up a bit?

Victoria records five COVID-19 infections in hotel quarantine, no local cases

What do airlines do with such travellers put them at the back of the plane seal them off some how from the rest of the passengers ?

Maybe its time for airlines do have separate areas for this purpose.

do = to

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What is happening in other countries before travellers come here?

Are they getting tested in other countries before they come here?

Would that speed things up a bit?

Victoria records five COVID-19 infections in hotel quarantine, no local cases

What do airlines do with such travellers put them at the back of the plane seal them off some how from the rest of the passengers ?

Maybe its time for airlines do have separate areas for this purpose.

do = to

With separate air scrubbers and filers.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What do airlines do with such travellers put them at the back of the plane seal them off some how from the rest of the passengers ?

Maybe its time for airlines do have separate areas for this purpose.

do = to

With separate air scrubbers and filers.

With separate air scrubbers and filters.

the simpler solution is obviously to split the difference and enforce pre travel quarantine at the origin for 1 week, then travel in isolation chambers and do another week at destination

kidding

if you can’t trust others then you have to do it yourself

Michael V said:

dv said:

Brain explodes.

so we guess there’s something to be said for international standards, Utilisez le Système International d’Unités ou mourez, foutreurs des meres! and all that, throw a little bit of ISO 8601 (current iteration) in there, y’no’, it’s only been like 32 years

Although ISO Recommendations and Standards in this field have been available since 1971, different forms of numeric representation of dates and times have been in common use in different countries. Where such representations are interchanged across national boundaries misinterpretation of the significance of the numerals can occur, resulting in confusion and other consequential errors or losses. The purpose of this International Standard is to eliminate the risk of misinterpretation and to avoid the confusion and its consequences.

see there they go talking about elimination again like it’s possible*

*: everywhere except in the exceptional countries

missed this.

>COVID patient with sepsis makes ‘remarkable’ recovery following megadose of vitamin C
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/mega-dose-of-vitamin-c-treats-sepsis-florey-institute-austin/12939202

sarahs mum said:

missed this.

>COVID patient with sepsis makes ‘remarkable’ recovery following megadose of vitamin C
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/mega-dose-of-vitamin-c-treats-sepsis-florey-institute-austin/12939202

Professor Rinaldo Bellomo, director of Intensive Care at Melbourne’s Austin Health, said the 40-year-old’s health had started to deteriorate significantly from COVID-19, with the man losing kidney function, and his blood pressure plummeting.

Professor Bellomo knew researchers at the Florey Institute had some promising experimental findings using megadose vitamin C to treat sepsis.

The Florey Institute’s Professor Clive May had collaborated with Professor Bellomo for many years, keeping him up to date with the promising results they were seeing in the lab with the sepsis treatment.

His research, which has just been published in the journal Critical Care Medicine, showed giving megadose vitamin C to animals with sepsis could reverse the effects of the disease.

—

While the result seems promising for the seriously ill Melbourne patient, and the animal studies, experts said previous studies using large doses of vitamin C to treat sepsis have been mixed.

Professor Simon Finfer, from the George Institute for Global Health, has been researching sepsis for more than 25 years.

“We have seen so many treatments that seem to work in animal models and case reports but haven’t proven effective in big studies,” he said.

A 2020 review of scientific evidence published in the Journal of the American Medical Association found high dose vitamin C given on its own or with steroids did not provide “significant survival benefit” for patients with sepsis or septic shock.

—

Professor Bellomo said many of the previous trials used a lower dose of vitamin C than the researchers did in both the animal study and the Austin did in the COVID-19 patient.

The amount of vitamin C given in this trial was 50 times greater than any other tried before for sepsis.

—

watch this space then

CHINA apologist doesn’t mention CHINA

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-12/virginia-trioli-coronavirus-apologise-and-forgive/12974938

ABC News:

‘Will the long-term burden of Australia’s economic recovery fall disproportionately on younger and poorer households, or will a fairer, more progressive approach prevail, asks Gareth Hutchens.’

Lock in ‘A’, Gareth.

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Will the long-term burden of Australia’s economic recovery fall disproportionately on younger and poorer households, or will a fairer, more progressive approach prevail, asks Gareth Hutchens.’

Lock in ‘A’, Gareth.

Most likely.