Date: 22/12/2020 07:01:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668598
Subject: Water

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-22/nsw-inland-rivers-may-not-recover-from-drought/12990300
I’ve been gong on about it for years.
They talk about water efficiency without knowing much at all.
GeoffD was one who seemed to be aware. Most others I listen to haven’t got the slightest clue.

All the talk about water efficiency is about how much money can be made from it this year.
ie; 1 meg water = x tonnes of produce, this year of production.
There seems to have been litte consideration of how this all works.
My parents used to put one teaspoon of tea for each drinker and one for the pot.

A farmer in the report above talks how he can get 2 bales of cotton from one megalitre whereas he used to get half a bale per megalitre but is not mentioning the fact there is no water in the river.

So tell me, who is putting in a teaspoon for the river?
Who is giving back to the water table?

Mostly, nobody is.

For some reason they seem to have forgotten that the water table is an essential part of the water cycle.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 07:36:22
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668599
Subject: re: Water

Managing the water table is important. Historically there is at least one place overseas where over use of a water table meant the balance of freshwater pressure dropping radically meant saline water seeped through the outer edges and all but ruined the water supply.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 07:38:17
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668600
Subject: re: Water

And potentially in our future water tables may become our primary freshwater source if river systems dry up with extreme weather conditions.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 07:40:37
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668602
Subject: re: Water

monkey skipper said:


And potentially in our future water tables may become our primary freshwater source if river systems dry up with extreme weather conditions.

Indeed.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 07:45:22
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668603
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


monkey skipper said:

And potentially in our future water tables may become our primary freshwater source if river systems dry up with extreme weather conditions.

Indeed.

I am of the view that we need to have run off channels constructed to syphon off floods water up on the north side of the dams that feed into the Brisbane , Logan and Gold Coast to a) mititgate floods risk and b) have water reserves to then call upon to either manage water flows for river health or indeed water needs to consumption and agriculture rather than this extreme management of feast and famine where we sit hoping things will work out. We actually need a new approach.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 07:53:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668605
Subject: re: Water

monkey skipper said:


roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

And potentially in our future water tables may become our primary freshwater source if river systems dry up with extreme weather conditions.

Indeed.

I am of the view that we need to have run off channels constructed to syphon off floods water up on the north side of the dams that feed into the Brisbane , Logan and Gold Coast to a) mititgate floods risk and b) have water reserves to then call upon to either manage water flows for river health or indeed water needs to consumption and agriculture rather than this extreme management of feast and famine where we sit hoping things will work out. We actually need a new approach.

We definitely need to rethink the whole thing.
The wrong ideas have been the modus operandum all along.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 07:59:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1668608
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:

We definitely need to rethink the whole thing.
The wrong ideas have been the modus operandum all along.

Oh, but that would cost money, roughie.

Politicians don’t want to spend money on things like that. They want to give it to things that benefit people and companies who donate some of it back to their parties.

Companies don’t want to spend money on things like that. They want to use the resources (very cheaply, thanks to the parties they donate to), make the profits, give some to shareholders, and pay execs big, big ‘bonuses’.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:01:09
From: transition
ID: 1668609
Subject: re: Water

funny isn’t it (involves contradictions), that among the idealizations of nature (including of the hydrological cycle) is the further (secret) idea that nature is wasteful and inefficient

imagine those two traveling together

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:02:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668610
Subject: re: Water

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

We definitely need to rethink the whole thing.
The wrong ideas have been the modus operandum all along.

Oh, but that would cost money, roughie.

Politicians don’t want to spend money on things like that. They want to give it to things that benefit people and companies who donate some of it back to their parties.

Companies don’t want to spend money on things like that. They want to use the resources (very cheaply, thanks to the parties they donate to), make the profits, give some to shareholders, and pay execs big, big ‘bonuses’.

Yes. Well as with climate change and covid, we should by now be realising the actual worth of the health of the planet and our grandchildren is far greater than the cost to profit loss.

The profits have been squandered.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:04:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668611
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


funny isn’t it (involves contradictions), that among the idealizations of nature (including of the hydrological cycle) is the further (secret) idea that nature is wasteful and inefficient

imagine those two traveling together

I’ve tried…

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:07:35
From: transition
ID: 1668612
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


transition said:

funny isn’t it (involves contradictions), that among the idealizations of nature (including of the hydrological cycle) is the further (secret) idea that nature is wasteful and inefficient

imagine those two traveling together

I’ve tried…

just out of interest, if I put it to you, of nature, the hydrological cycle specifically, would you, if pushed to be brutally honest, would you say nature is wasteful and inefficient

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:17:40
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668613
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


roughbarked said:

transition said:

funny isn’t it (involves contradictions), that among the idealizations of nature (including of the hydrological cycle) is the further (secret) idea that nature is wasteful and inefficient

imagine those two traveling together

I’ve tried…

just out of interest, if I put it to you, of nature, the hydrological cycle specifically, would you, if pushed to be brutally honest, would you say nature is wasteful and inefficient

I don’t believe that nature has any thoughts on the concepts of waste and efficiency.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:18:54
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668615
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


transition said:

roughbarked said:

I’ve tried…

just out of interest, if I put it to you, of nature, the hydrological cycle specifically, would you, if pushed to be brutally honest, would you say nature is wasteful and inefficient

I don’t believe that nature has any thoughts on the concepts of waste and efficiency.

Oxygen was a waste product

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:21:51
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668616
Subject: re: Water

rapid change is the issue in climate change as evolution and survival of species , flora and fauna need time to adjust as rapid change leads to increased extinction rates as we all understand.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:23:28
From: transition
ID: 1668617
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


transition said:

roughbarked said:

I’ve tried…

just out of interest, if I put it to you, of nature, the hydrological cycle specifically, would you, if pushed to be brutally honest, would you say nature is wasteful and inefficient

I don’t believe that nature has any thoughts on the concepts of waste and efficiency.

you dodged the question

humans are a substantial part of nature, a force of nature, they readily think of things in terms of efficiency, they don’t suspend (stop) doing that when extracting or diverting resources from around them, from nature

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:25:45
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668619
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


roughbarked said:

transition said:

just out of interest, if I put it to you, of nature, the hydrological cycle specifically, would you, if pushed to be brutally honest, would you say nature is wasteful and inefficient

I don’t believe that nature has any thoughts on the concepts of waste and efficiency.

you dodged the question

humans are a substantial part of nature, a force of nature, they readily think of things in terms of efficiency, they don’t suspend (stop) doing that when extracting or diverting resources from around them, from nature

Hence we are those in control of waste and efficiency?

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:27:49
From: transition
ID: 1668620
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


transition said:

roughbarked said:

I don’t believe that nature has any thoughts on the concepts of waste and efficiency.

you dodged the question

humans are a substantial part of nature, a force of nature, they readily think of things in terms of efficiency, they don’t suspend (stop) doing that when extracting or diverting resources from around them, from nature

Hence we are those in control of waste and efficiency?

I was just pondering for a moment the insaid, unspoken, perhaps largely unabstracted contradiction in the Lie involved in idealizations of nature

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:30:30
From: transition
ID: 1668621
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


roughbarked said:

transition said:

you dodged the question

humans are a substantial part of nature, a force of nature, they readily think of things in terms of efficiency, they don’t suspend (stop) doing that when extracting or diverting resources from around them, from nature

Hence we are those in control of waste and efficiency?

I was just pondering for a moment the insaid, unspoken, perhaps largely unabstracted contradiction in the Lie involved in idealizations of nature

unsaid

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:31:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668623
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


roughbarked said:

transition said:

you dodged the question

humans are a substantial part of nature, a force of nature, they readily think of things in terms of efficiency, they don’t suspend (stop) doing that when extracting or diverting resources from around them, from nature

Hence we are those in control of waste and efficiency?

I was just pondering for a moment the insaid, unspoken, perhaps largely unabstracted contradiction in the Lie involved in idealizations of nature

So who is idealizing here?

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:34:50
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1668626
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


transition said:

roughbarked said:

Hence we are those in control of waste and efficiency?

I was just pondering for a moment the insaid, unspoken, perhaps largely unabstracted contradiction in the Lie involved in idealizations of nature

unsaid

The little unsaid

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:38:42
From: transition
ID: 1668627
Subject: re: Water

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

transition said:

I was just pondering for a moment the insaid, unspoken, perhaps largely unabstracted contradiction in the Lie involved in idealizations of nature

unsaid

The little unsaid

you say it for me

say nature is wasteful and inefficient, and take full moral responsibility for what that might lend to after you say it

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:39:50
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668628
Subject: re: Water

from 10 years ago

“ If Earth was the size of a basketball, all of its water would fit into a ping pong ball.

How much water is that? It’s roughly 326 million cubic miles (1.332 billion cubic kilometers), according to a recent study from the U.S. Geological Survey. Some 72 percent of Earth is covered in water, but 97 percent of that is salty ocean water and not suitable for drinking.

“There’s not a lot of water on Earth at all,” said David Gallo, an oceanographer at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) in Massachusetts.

Oceans create a water layer spanning 15,000 miles (24,000 kilometers) across the planet at an average depth of more than 2 miles (3.2 km). If you poured all of the world’s water on the United States and could contain it, you’d create a lake 90 miles (145 km) deep.”

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:40:17
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1668629
Subject: re: Water

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

transition said:

I was just pondering for a moment the insaid, unspoken, perhaps largely unabstracted contradiction in the Lie involved in idealizations of nature

unsaid

The little unsaid

And in response to the question, “nature” is both incredibly efficient and incredibly inefficient, depending on how you look at it.

“You give all your brightness away,
but it only makes you brighter”

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:43:24
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1668630
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

unsaid

The little unsaid

you say it for me

say nature is wasteful and inefficient, and take full moral responsibility for what that might lend to after you say it

Sorry, not quite seeing where moral responsibility comes into making that statement at the moment.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:43:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668631
Subject: re: Water

monkey skipper said:


from 10 years ago

“ If Earth was the size of a basketball, all of its water would fit into a ping pong ball.

How much water is that? It’s roughly 326 million cubic miles (1.332 billion cubic kilometers), according to a recent study from the U.S. Geological Survey. Some 72 percent of Earth is covered in water, but 97 percent of that is salty ocean water and not suitable for drinking.

“There’s not a lot of water on Earth at all,” said David Gallo, an oceanographer at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) in Massachusetts.

Oceans create a water layer spanning 15,000 miles (24,000 kilometers) across the planet at an average depth of more than 2 miles (3.2 km). If you poured all of the world’s water on the United States and could contain it, you’d create a lake 90 miles (145 km) deep.”

Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:44:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668632
Subject: re: Water

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The little unsaid

you say it for me

say nature is wasteful and inefficient, and take full moral responsibility for what that might lend to after you say it

Sorry, not quite seeing where moral responsibility comes into making that statement at the moment.

Well, are you capable of changing nature?

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:45:28
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668633
Subject: re: Water

“ on a daily basis, we use 10 billion tons of freshwater worldwide.

A lot of organizations and environmentalists are saying that our water supply is dwindling but very few take it seriously. “

myth or fact?

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:46:37
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1668634
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

you say it for me

say nature is wasteful and inefficient, and take full moral responsibility for what that might lend to after you say it

Sorry, not quite seeing where moral responsibility comes into making that statement at the moment.

Well, are you capable of changing nature?

Depends what you mean.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:47:46
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1668635
Subject: re: Water

https://www.theworldcounts.com/stories/average-daily-water-usage

Seems like a doomsday clock for water could but may not be correct and pushing an agenda

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 08:48:08
From: transition
ID: 1668636
Subject: re: Water

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The little unsaid

you say it for me

say nature is wasteful and inefficient, and take full moral responsibility for what that might lend to after you say it

Sorry, not quite seeing where moral responsibility comes into making that statement at the moment.

well, the proposition, the idea, is that there are notions about nature being wasteful and inefficient, buried in idealizations about nature, and that these are in-no-small-part significant in human ways, the way people think

how people might conceptualize the diverting of river flows for irrigation, for example

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 09:01:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668644
Subject: re: Water

transition said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

you say it for me

say nature is wasteful and inefficient, and take full moral responsibility for what that might lend to after you say it

Sorry, not quite seeing where moral responsibility comes into making that statement at the moment.

well, the proposition, the idea, is that there are notions about nature being wasteful and inefficient, buried in idealizations about nature, and that these are in-no-small-part significant in human ways, the way people think

how people might conceptualize the diverting of river flows for irrigation, for example

Yes? Do go on.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 09:44:16
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1668666
Subject: re: Water

> he can get 2 bales of cotton from one megalitre whereas he used to get half a bale per megalitre

That’s bloody marvellous.
Is roughbark using only using a quarter as much water on his farm as he was 50 years ago?

The total usage or river water by irrigated crops has already reduced, significantly, over the past 50 years.
The total usage of river water by non-irrigated crops has stayed roughly the same over the past 50 years.
The total usage of river water by urban populations has increased significantly over the past 50 years.

Luckily, climate change is predicted to lead to a wetter Murray-Darling, because of more rainfall on the Great Dividing Range.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 11:05:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668737
Subject: re: Water

mollwollfumble said:


> he can get 2 bales of cotton from one megalitre whereas he used to get half a bale per megalitre

That’s bloody marvellous.
Is roughbark using only using a quarter as much water on his farm as he was 50 years ago?

The total usage or river water by irrigated crops has already reduced, significantly, over the past 50 years.
The total usage of river water by non-irrigated crops has stayed roughly the same over the past 50 years.
The total usage of river water by urban populations has increased significantly over the past 50 years.

Luckily, climate change is predicted to lead to a wetter Murray-Darling, because of more rainfall on the Great Dividing Range.

See you are getting wrong too.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2020 15:31:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1668856
Subject: re: Water

Told you that GeoffD could see it.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/12/2020 07:15:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1669784
Subject: re: Water

monkey skipper said:


roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

And potentially in our future water tables may become our primary freshwater source if river systems dry up with extreme weather conditions.

Indeed.

I am of the view that we need to have run off channels constructed to syphon off floods water up on the north side of the dams that feed into the Brisbane , Logan and Gold Coast to a) mititgate floods risk and b) have water reserves to then call upon to either manage water flows for river health or indeed water needs to consumption and agriculture rather than this extreme management of feast and famine where we sit hoping things will work out. We actually need a new approach.

Tunnels out to the western side, may change the situation in the Darling river but may also affect the marine environment off the coast of Brisbane.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/12/2020 08:08:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1669806
Subject: re: Water

Anyway, we have had a lot of discussion that hasn’t been about the original topic which happens to be why the rivers are empty despite whatever is said about the efficient use of water.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/01/2021 05:55:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1683527
Subject: re: Water

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/03/cost-blowout-on-wyangala-dam-project-doubles-public-bill-to-almost-15bn-before-scheme-approved

https://www.industry.nsw.gov.au/water/plans-programs/healthy-floodplains-project/proposed-legislative-amendments

Reply Quote

Date: 21/01/2021 14:32:05
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1683762
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/03/cost-blowout-on-wyangala-dam-project-doubles-public-bill-to-almost-15bn-before-scheme-approved

https://www.industry.nsw.gov.au/water/plans-programs/healthy-floodplains-project/proposed-legislative-amendments

None of the State Premiers could be considered virtuous, but NSW seems to have the most crooked by far.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/02/2021 14:33:24
From: roughbarked
ID: 1689738
Subject: re: Water

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-03/irrigators-confirm-climate-change-impact-as-river-inflows-halved/13109206

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2021 13:35:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1691278
Subject: re: Water

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-06/channel-country-fracking-plans-origin-energy/13057536

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2021 08:32:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1693032
Subject: re: Water

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-10/fortune-agribusiness-singleton-station-water-application-concern/13136088

Reply Quote

Date: 4/03/2021 12:47:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1705850
Subject: re: Water

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-04/where-will-wyangala-dam-water-go/13210426

Reply Quote

Date: 4/03/2021 12:55:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1705856
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-04/where-will-wyangala-dam-water-go/13210426

Angus Taylor will probably sell it to someone. Probably the govt he’s a part of. For a heavily-inflated price.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/03/2021 12:56:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 1705858
Subject: re: Water

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-04/where-will-wyangala-dam-water-go/13210426

Angus Taylor will probably sell it to someone. Probably the govt he’s a part of. For a heavily-inflated price.

I don’t think the average person comprehends the amounts of money changing hands.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 08:07:28
From: roughbarked
ID: 1744714
Subject: re: Water

Data from the CSIRO shows there has been a huge fall in inflows across the Murray-Darling Basin in the past 20 years.

Lower rainfall translates to a big drop in water flowing into streams, rivers and dams across Australia’s largest river system.

Dr Francis Chiew, a research group leader in water resources assessment and prediction at the CSIRO, said long-term rain trends suggested a significant reduction in water availability in the Murray-Darling system.

He said his team applied a “general rule” when rainfall figures fell by 10 per cent.

“That tends to be accentuated or amplified as a 20-to-30 per cent reduction in (Murray-Darling basin) inflows,” Dr Chiew said.

“We are seeing something that is worse now.”
run off graphic

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2021-05-30/climate-change-modelling-murray-darling-basin-water-allocations/100168038

Reply Quote

Date: 28/06/2021 01:22:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1756718
Subject: re: Water

“The National Party can’t claim that water is critical to farmers and growing agriculture, and then throw that portfolio out of Cabinet as internal political payback,” Shadow Water Minister Terri Butler told the ABC’s AM program.

“It’s just ridiculous.

“What should have happened is Scott Morrison should have removed the water portfolio from the National Party and kept it in Cabinet, but instead it’s out of Cabinet and still in the hands of the National Party.”

Reply Quote

Date: 28/06/2021 06:56:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1756730
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


“The National Party can’t claim that water is critical to farmers and growing agriculture, and then throw that portfolio out of Cabinet as internal political payback,” Shadow Water Minister Terri Butler told the ABC’s AM program.

“It’s just ridiculous.

“What should have happened is Scott Morrison should have removed the water portfolio from the National Party and kept it in Cabinet, but instead it’s out of Cabinet and still in the hands of the National Party.”

As has been mentioned by several commentators, all this current ruckus is about the Nats bringing back some comparative hell-raisers to their leadership to ensure a higher profile, and also about reminding the Libs that the Nats don’t need to get the Libs’ permission for anything at all. And just in time for an election lead-in.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/06/2021 06:57:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1756731
Subject: re: Water

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

“The National Party can’t claim that water is critical to farmers and growing agriculture, and then throw that portfolio out of Cabinet as internal political payback,” Shadow Water Minister Terri Butler told the ABC’s AM program.

“It’s just ridiculous.

“What should have happened is Scott Morrison should have removed the water portfolio from the National Party and kept it in Cabinet, but instead it’s out of Cabinet and still in the hands of the National Party.”

As has been mentioned by several commentators, all this current ruckus is about the Nats bringing back some comparative hell-raisers to their leadership to ensure a higher profile, and also about reminding the Libs that the Nats don’t need to get the Libs’ permission for anything at all. And just in time for an election lead-in.

It isn’t going to get any prettier.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2021 06:59:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1779089
Subject: re: Water

Webster moved 81,288 ml of water to kooba.It is owned by psp Canadian
super fund.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-02-18/canadian-pension-funds-aussie-farm-buying-spree/11950312

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2021 07:36:01
From: Tamb
ID: 1779101
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


Webster moved 81,288 ml of water to kooba.It is owned by psp Canadian
super fund.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-02-18/canadian-pension-funds-aussie-farm-buying-spree/11950312

Not to be pedantic but I think you mean ML.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2021 07:59:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1779102
Subject: re: Water

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

Webster moved 81,288 ml of water to kooba.It is owned by psp Canadian
super fund.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-02-18/canadian-pension-funds-aussie-farm-buying-spree/11950312

Not to be pedantic but I think you mean ML.

It is OK. I copied that verbatim from an email from a friend.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2021 09:33:55
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1779164
Subject: re: Water

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

Webster moved 81,288 ml of water to kooba.It is owned by psp Canadian
super fund.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-02-18/canadian-pension-funds-aussie-farm-buying-spree/11950312

Not to be pedantic but I think you mean ML.

I don’t think correcting by a factor of 1 billion is that pedantic :)

Reply Quote

Date: 9/10/2021 08:44:35
From: roughbarked
ID: 1800907
Subject: re: Water

Are dams worth the money anymore?

Water infrastructure expert Professor Stuart Khan, from the University of New South Wales, said while increasing the dam storage would capture more water for local farmers, that water would be at the expense of elsewhere.

“The thing we need to remember about the Murray-Darling Basin is that it’s a fully allocated system — there’s no spare water,” he said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2021-10-09/wyangala-dam-rising-would-flood-farms-upstream/100460892

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Date: 12/09/2022 08:31:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 1931743
Subject: re: Water

A lucrative water extraction licence that ignited a political scandal when it was granted a decade ago has been quietly renewed by the political party that condemned the saga last time.

The licence for 5,800 megalitres a year sparked controversy when the then Country Liberal Party government awarded it to former station owner Tina MacFarlane in 2013, the same year she ran for federal parliament with the party.

She went on to sell the station in the outback town of Mataranka to a forestry company, which used the property to grow Indian sandalwood trees, for a reported $5.5 million.

The full licence for the property was quietly renewed for another decade under the Territory Labor government at the beginning of this year.

In what environmentalists have called a case of history repeating, the rural property is now on the market once more, with real estate material spruiking a “blue-ribbon irrigation development” with six bores.

It is expected to fetch about $9 million if it sells.

In the Northern Territory, the government’s water controller — within the environment department — approves and renews water license applications.

The Mataranka licence was granted free of charge and will automatically transfer to whoever buys the property, the NT’s water department confirmed.

In the Northern Territory, the government’s water controller — within the environment department — approves and renews water license applications.

While the ABC is not suggesting any impropriety, environmentalists say the saga is another example of the Northern Territory’s “fundamentally broken” water rules.

“What we’re talking about is a transfer of public resources to private interests with no return to the territory taxpayer — and that is a huge problem,” Kirsty Howey from the Environment Centre NT said.

The licence granted to Mrs MacFarlane in 2013 — which was more than double most others in the Mataranka region at the time — was among those scrutinised in an independent water licensing review initiated after Territory Labor formed government in 2016.

While the review found no evidence of political interference in the allocation of Mrs MacFarlane’s licence, the review concluded that the licence allocated more water than the political candidate would have been able to use at the time.

Mrs MacFarlane has always denied she sold the property in 2015 because the licence increased its value.
Only 60 per cent of licence used

Sandalwood company Quintis, which took over the station in 2015, applied for a licence renewal in June last year as the expiry of the previous 10-year licence approached.

The NT government has now confirmed the company was not using its full water allocation at the time, with just 60 per cent of its allocation exhausted in a recent 12-month period.

Despite that, the licence — which remains the region’s largest — was renewed in full in January.

“The fact that it has been granted for that exact same amount again, despite the fact that the full amount hasn’t been used, is problematic and is inconsistent with the recommendations of the licensing review and also with water policy in the territory,” Ms Howey said.

However, the company itself said it applied for a full renewal “well prior” to a decision to sell the property because of an under-performing crop.

link

Reply Quote

Date: 26/10/2022 11:23:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 1948825
Subject: re: Water

Labor sets the scene for water war

The federal government is paving the way for a blistering showdown with farmers, rural communities and the eastern states, with last night’s budget revealing the Commonwealth plans to buy back water from irrigators for the first time in almost a decade.
More at link above.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/10/2022 08:33:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1949155
Subject: re: Water

Then Labor keeps the matter secret

and this is the ABC’s headline:
Secret water buyback fund sends ‘shiver down the spine’ of Murray-Darling Basin communities.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/10/2022 10:53:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1949181
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


Then Labor keeps the matter secret

and this is the ABC’s headline:
Secret water buyback fund sends ‘shiver down the spine’ of Murray-Darling Basin communities.

Seems fair.

Previous govt kept a lot of water allocations secret.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/10/2022 11:08:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1949188
Subject: re: Water

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

Then Labor keeps the matter secret

and this is the ABC’s headline:
Secret water buyback fund sends ‘shiver down the spine’ of Murray-Darling Basin communities.

Seems fair.

Previous govt kept a lot of water allocations secret.

Tit for tat eh.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/10/2022 11:11:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1949190
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Then Labor keeps the matter secret

and this is the ABC’s headline:
Secret water buyback fund sends ‘shiver down the spine’ of Murray-Darling Basin communities.

Seems fair.

Previous govt kept a lot of water allocations secret.

Tit for tat eh.

I wonder if this govt is also doing favours for some interested parties, like the previous one did for Angus Taylor?

Reply Quote

Date: 27/10/2022 11:16:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1949196
Subject: re: Water

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Seems fair.

Previous govt kept a lot of water allocations secret.

Tit for tat eh.

I wonder if this govt is also doing favours for some interested parties, like the previous one did for Angus Taylor?

This will perhaps remain to be seen but I do live in an important irrigation area and I know a lot of farmers both irrigators and dry area. I recall that one of the catch cries was; get more land cleared before Labor gets back in and stops us again.
Water theft is a lot more common than people think.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/11/2022 18:35:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 1955050
Subject: re: Water

The federal water minister says she’s received approaches from farmers keen to sell their water licences back to the government.

Don’t know why that is news to her. There were some farmers who took advantahe of this scheme the last time it was implemented.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/11/2022 18:36:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1955051
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


The federal water minister says she’s received approaches from farmers keen to sell their water licences back to the government.

Don’t know why that is news to her. There were some farmers who took advanta-h-ge of this scheme the last time it was implemented.

repaired.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/11/2022 18:44:11
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1955052
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


The federal water minister says she’s received approaches from farmers keen to sell their water licences back to the government.

Don’t know why that is news to her. There were some farmers who took advantahe of this scheme the last time it was implemented.

I can’t see where it is reckoned it is news to her.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/11/2022 18:46:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1955053
Subject: re: Water

Bogsnorkler said:


roughbarked said:

The federal water minister says she’s received approaches from farmers keen to sell their water licences back to the government.

Don’t know why that is news to her. There were some farmers who took advantahe of this scheme the last time it was implemented.

I can’t see where it is reckoned it is news to her.

OK.
Maybe I put the word ‘news’ in there.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 15:10:40
From: roughbarked
ID: 1958097
Subject: re: Water

monkey skipper said:

Managing the water table is important. Historically there is at least one place overseas where over use of a water table meant the balance of freshwater pressure dropping radically meant saline water seeped through the outer edges and all but ruined the water supply.


GeoffD would love this.
the result of capping the bores.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 16:26:43
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1958147
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


monkey skipper said:

Managing the water table is important. Historically there is at least one place overseas where over use of a water table meant the balance of freshwater pressure dropping radically meant saline water seeped through the outer edges and all but ruined the water supply.


GeoffD would love this.
the result of capping the bores.

Good news.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 16:28:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1958148
Subject: re: Water

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Managing the water table is important. Historically there is at least one place overseas where over use of a water table meant the balance of freshwater pressure dropping radically meant saline water seeped through the outer edges and all but ruined the water supply.


GeoffD would love this.
the result of capping the bores.

Good news.

I was friends with the bloke that wrote the cap the bores project.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 16:33:26
From: Tamb
ID: 1958152
Subject: re: Water

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Managing the water table is important. Historically there is at least one place overseas where over use of a water table meant the balance of freshwater pressure dropping radically meant saline water seeped through the outer edges and all but ruined the water supply.


GeoffD would love this.
the result of capping the bores.

Good news.


Shame he’s not here to see it.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 16:37:36
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1958155
Subject: re: Water

Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 16:39:46
From: Tamb
ID: 1958156
Subject: re: Water

JudgeMental said:


Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.

A touch of Ancient Mariner there.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 16:44:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1958161
Subject: re: Water

Tamb said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

GeoffD would love this.
the result of capping the bores.

Good news.


Shame he’s not here to see it.

Indeed.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/11/2022 16:44:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1958162
Subject: re: Water

JudgeMental said:


Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.

Some sort of mariner talk.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/12/2022 06:22:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 1969350
Subject: re: Water

Usually avoid these type of pages but I did find this one well used the technology.

Tracing the epic journey of rivers from source to sea highlights the complexities of managing water in Australia as drought and flood extremes intensify.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/08/2023 06:47:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 2061933
Subject: re: Water

Nothing more valuable than water

Kokatha woman Frances Rings says for desert people there’s nothing more valuable than water: “We can walk past a nugget of gold and that’s insignificant compared to the knowledge where water is, the diversity of water and the water routes that crisscross the desert.”

Reply Quote

Date: 31/10/2023 08:31:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 2089742
Subject: re: Water

Irrigators have volunteered to sell the federal government nearly twice the volume of water it hoped to purchase from six different valleys in the Murray-Darling Basin, according to Water Minister Tanya Plibersek.

Reply Quote

Date: 31/10/2023 10:21:34
From: dv
ID: 2089763
Subject: re: Water

roughbarked said:


Irrigators have volunteered to sell the federal government nearly twice the volume of water it hoped to purchase from six different valleys in the Murray-Darling Basin, according to Water Minister Tanya Plibersek.

Good

Reply Quote

Date: 14/11/2023 11:03:21
From: roughbarked
ID: 2094122
Subject: re: Water

Environmental advocates have labelled it the “worst water decision” in years, while the government says it is a “conservative” and “positive step forward”.

The NT government released the Georgina Wiso Water Allocation Plan on Friday last week, concluding 210 billion litres of water — enough to fill roughly 100,000 Olympic swimming pools — can be sustainably extracted from the groundwater every year.

The legal framework sets rules for managing the take and use of groundwater in the region, which covers an area twice the size of Tasmania, from Daly Waters in the north to beyond Tennant Creek in the south.

Within this region is a significant portion of the Beetaloo Basin, where a controversial fracking industry has been given the green light to go ahead.

About 20 billion litres will be allocated to the Aboriginal Water Reserve, 10 billion litres for oil and gas, and 148 billion litres is reserved for agriculture.

Amy Dysart, the territory’s director of water resources, said the basin is the “most extensive groundwater resource in the Territory”, storing a huge 740 million megalitres, and stressed only a very small portion of that water would be used each year.
Read more

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