About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Aircon mostly and cruise control, fm radio, better brakes.

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Aircon mostly and cruise control, fm radio, better brakes.

Better power to weight ratio.

Are you fishing? Or do you really not know?

more speed, suspension improvements (related steering improvements, general handling improvements), brake improvements, greater engine RPM range (engine power responsiveness), less aerodynamic drag (for increased speed)

though some of the early cars had very big engines and high top speeds, they didn’t have the performance and handling

independent suspension and better shock absorbers probably came with improvements

some simplification came from front-wheel drive and gearbox and differential being part of engine assembly, or near assembly, got rid of drive-train going to rear wheels, no tail shaft required

related auto-transmission, and converter

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Literally every aspect of those cars has been improved dozens of times, and a bunch of stuff has been added.

Rule 303 said:

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Literally every aspect of those cars has been improved dozens of times, and a bunch of stuff has been added.

Morning all.

Stop lights, Indicators, Crumple zones.

Good question.

Small and incremental, with most of the evolution taking place in the first 50 years.

Which is rather inconsistent with the idea of the ever increasing rate of change.

Tamb said:

Rule 303 said:

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Literally every aspect of those cars has been improved dozens of times, and a bunch of stuff has been added.

Morning all.

Stop lights, Indicators, Crumple zones.

And the availability of accessories like large fluffy dice to hang from the rear view mirror.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good question.

Small and incremental, with most of the evolution taking place in the first 50 years.

Which is rather inconsistent with the idea of the ever increasing rate of change.

A lot of the small & incremental advances were in having the item in question actually work properly all the time.

mollwollfumble said:

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Absolutely everything, and massively.

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good question.

Small and incremental, with most of the evolution taking place in the first 50 years.

Which is rather inconsistent with the idea of the ever increasing rate of change.

A lot of the small & incremental advances were in having the item in question actually work properly all the time.

Sure (well most of the time anyway), but by 1970 new cars were pretty reliable.

whoops

try here..

something like this proposition comes up between me and the lady

and there possibly is some interesting dimension to the question what hasn’t improved, or what has got worse

like one of the things I like about her little car, it’s oldish, is the simplicity, especially inside the vehicle, contrast that with getting in the daughter’s modern Mini, which is packed with bells and whistles, seems cramped and lots of distraction on the dashboard

furious said:

Are you fishing? Or do you really not know?

Both.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good question.

Small and incremental, with most of the evolution taking place in the first 50 years.

Which is rather inconsistent with the idea of the ever increasing rate of change.

That’s what I was fishing for.
Did most of the evolution take place early, or has it been constant or increasing in rate?

Spiny Norman said:

mollwollfumble said:

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Absolutely everything, and massively.

As much detail as you can, please, for the last couple of decades.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good question.

Small and incremental, with most of the evolution taking place in the first 50 years.

Which is rather inconsistent with the idea of the ever increasing rate of change.

That’s what I was fishing for.
Did most of the evolution take place early, or has it been constant or increasing in rate?

Quite a lot couldn’t take place until the availability of cheap electronics. e.g electronic fuel injection v mechanical.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good question.

Small and incremental, with most of the evolution taking place in the first 50 years.

Which is rather inconsistent with the idea of the ever increasing rate of change.

That’s what I was fishing for.
Did most of the evolution take place early, or has it been constant or increasing in rate?

Different aspects progressed at different rates. For example there were cars in the 1950s that still used engines little changed from the 1930s, but with very different bodies featuring unitary construction rather than separate chassis.

and I ended up reading about torque converters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

mollwollfumble said:

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

Absolutely everything, and massively.

As much detail as you can, please, for the last couple of decades.

Not speaking for SN, but if we are looking at the last 50 years, I’d say the rate of change has picked up a bit in the last 20 years, compared with the previous 30.

“Self-driving” features being the main ones that were pretty well non-existent 50 years ago.

And of Couse there should be a massive change over the next 50 years, with the switch to electric cars.

transition said:

and I ended up reading about torque converters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter

invented in 1905, my learning today

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good question.

Small and incremental, with most of the evolution taking place in the first 50 years.

Which is rather inconsistent with the idea of the ever increasing rate of change.

That’s what I was fishing for.
Did most of the evolution take place early, or has it been constant or increasing in rate?

The evolution was pretty impressive in the first few years, then it settled down to an ICE inside an enclosed carriage with rules and regulations it had to abide to. However, the evolution of the individual components (materials, driveline, engine, safety and efficiency) have been accelerating in the last 20 years.

The Rev Dodgson said:

And of Couse there should be a massive change over the next 50 years, with the switch to electric cars.

There’ll be some changes in the Middle East.

A whole lot of people will actually have to look for jobs, actually turn up at them, and actually have to do something for a living.

transition said:

transition said:

and I ended up reading about torque converters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_converter

invented in 1905, my learning today

CVT seems to be more popular now even though the DAF was the only (not particularly successful) one in the past.

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

And of Couse there should be a massive change over the next 50 years, with the switch to electric cars.

There’ll be some changes in the Middle East.

A whole lot of people will actually have to look for jobs, actually turn up at them, and actually have to do something for a living.

Hey, The Rev did all that!

sibeen said:

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

And of Couse there should be a massive change over the next 50 years, with the switch to electric cars.

There’ll be some changes in the Middle East.

A whole lot of people will actually have to look for jobs, actually turn up at them, and actually have to do something for a living.

Hey, The Rev did all that!

Oops. I came in late, didn’t read back.

The other change in the Middle East is likely to be a reversion to meideval tribalism.

They’ll be chopping each other’s heads and hands off willy-nilly.

And the rest of the world will hardly care.

captain_spalding said:

The other change in the Middle East is likely to be a reversion to meideval tribalism.

They’ll be chopping each other’s heads and hands off willy-nilly.

And the rest of the world will hardly care.

And the rest of the world will hardly care secretly rejoice.

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

The short version is -
- Mechanically they are vastly more reliable. A modern car should go for at least 400,000 km before needing any substantial work done to it. A century ago the engines in cars had no oil filter in the system, so they needed to rebuild the engine every couple of years or so. And modern metallurgy is is light-years ahead of what it was back then as well, for example the maximum safe piston speed of some modern engines it about 5,400 ft/min (eg the Honda S2000 engine, which redlines at 9,000 rpm and that’s a good twenty year-old engine now) and some current-day engines even exceed that. The old engines were very limited by both the crude metallurgy of the time and overall standard of engineering available. We can use FEA on powerful computers to refine designs before metal is cut, to get very close to the optimum design.
- Engine design is again light-years ahead of a century ago. The designers back then had very few mathematical analysis tools available to them to assist in designing a good engine. Occasionally someone would accidentally come up with something that seemed to work well, and others would copy it. An example of that is the engine that Ernest Henry made for Peugeot back in 1912. It went well and was copied by a few people, the most successful being the Offenhauser company. The engines they made started off the in the 20’s I think, and were still occasionally competitive until the early 70’s in the US.
Perhaps the most significant improvements have been in cylinder head design. The inlet & exhaust ports in modern engines are vastly improved from the old ones, as we have a very good idea of how air flows now. It was just guesswork back then, no idea what shape to use nor how large they had to be nor what length, etc. The combustion chamber shapes have also changed immensely, with the modern ones able to run a much higher compression ratio (some road cars are up around 12:1, about double that of the century-ago ones) hence can make much more power-per-litre and so it much cleaner as well. One limiting factor of a century ago was the crappy & inconsistent fuels available. They had very low octane ratings and that limited the compression ratio that was able to be used before detonation occurred, which forced the engines to accommodate the lowest quality available. Modern fuels are again much better in every way and are far more detonation resistant, especially the ethanol blended fuels.

I can type a bunch more if you like.

5,400 ft/min = 27.4 m/s

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

captain_spalding said:

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

On most cars the manual says it is not necessary but I still use lower throttle openings for a while.

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

On most cars the manual says it is not necessary but I still use lower throttle openings for a while.

Cars have manuals?!

Then

Now

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

On most cars the manual says it is not necessary but I still use lower throttle openings for a while.

I don’t start the diesel until the glow plug light goes out.

furious said:

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

On most cars the manual says it is not necessary but I still use lower throttle openings for a while.

Cars have manuals?!

There’s usually a section on the App.

furious said:

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

On most cars the manual says it is not necessary but I still use lower throttle openings for a while.

Cars have manuals?!

Yes. Not workshop manuals but operation manuals.

more learning today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston
“A hypereutectic piston is an internal combustion engine piston cast using a hypereutectic alloy–that is, a metallic alloy which has a composition beyond the eutectic point. Hypereutectic pistons are made of an aluminum alloy which has much more silicon present than is soluble in aluminum at the operating temperature. Hypereutectic aluminum has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion, which allows engine designers to specify much tighter tolerances.

The most common material used for automotive pistons is aluminum due to its light weight, low cost, and acceptable strength. Although other elements may be present in smaller amounts, the alloying element of concern in aluminum for pistons is silicon. The point at which silicon is fully and exactly soluble in aluminum at operating temperatures is around 12%. Either more or less silicon than this will result in two separate phases in the solidified crystal structure of the metal. This is very common. When significantly more silicon is added to the aluminum than 12%, the properties of the aluminum change in a way that is useful for the purposes of pistons for combustion engines. However, at a blend of 25% silicon, there is a significant reduction of strength in the metal, so hypereutectic pistons commonly use a level of silicon between 16% and 19%. Special moulds, casting, and cooling techniques are required to obtain uniformly dispersed silicon particles throughout the piston material.

Hypereutectic pistons are stronger than more common cast aluminum pistons and used in many high performance applications. They are not as strong as forged pistons, but are much lower cost due to being cast. ….

……The “4032” performance piston alloy has a silicon content of approximately 11%. This means that it expands less than a piston with no silicon, but since the silicon is fully alloyed on a molecular level (eutectic), the alloy is less brittle and more flexible than a stock hypereutectic “smog” (low compression) piston. These pistons can survive mild detonation with less damage than stock pistons. 4032 and hypereutectic alloys have a low coefficient of thermal expansion, allowing tighter piston to cylinder bore fit at assembly temperature.

The “2618” performance piston alloy has less than 2% silicon, and could be described as hypo (under) eutectic. This alloy is capable of experiencing the most detonation and abuse while suffering the least amount of damage. Pistons made of this alloy are also typically made thicker and heavier because of their most common applications in commercial diesel engines. Both because of the higher than normal temperatures that these pistons experience in their usual application, and the higher coefficient of thermal expansion due to low-silicon content causing greater thermal growth, these pistons require a larger piston to cylinder bore clearance at assembly temperatures. This leads to a condition known as “piston slap” which is when the piston rocks in the cylinder and it causes an audible tapping noise that continues until the engine has warmed to operational temperatures, expanding the piston and reducing piston to cylinder wall clearance…”

transition said:

more learning today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston
“A hypereutectic piston is an internal combustion engine piston cast using a hypereutectic alloy–that is, a metallic alloy which has a composition beyond the eutectic point. Hypereutectic pistons are made of an aluminum alloy which has much more silicon present than is soluble in aluminum at the operating temperature. Hypereutectic aluminum has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion, which allows engine designers to specify much tighter tolerances.

The most common material used for automotive pistons is aluminum due to its light weight, low cost, and acceptable strength. Although other elements may be present in smaller amounts, the alloying element of concern in aluminum for pistons is silicon. The point at which silicon is fully and exactly soluble in aluminum at operating temperatures is around 12%. Either more or less silicon than this will result in two separate phases in the solidified crystal structure of the metal. This is very common. When significantly more silicon is added to the aluminum than 12%, the properties of the aluminum change in a way that is useful for the purposes of pistons for combustion engines. However, at a blend of 25% silicon, there is a significant reduction of strength in the metal, so hypereutectic pistons commonly use a level of silicon between 16% and 19%. Special moulds, casting, and cooling techniques are required to obtain uniformly dispersed silicon particles throughout the piston material.

Hypereutectic pistons are stronger than more common cast aluminum pistons and used in many high performance applications. They are not as strong as forged pistons, but are much lower cost due to being cast. ….

……The “4032” performance piston alloy has a silicon content of approximately 11%. This means that it expands less than a piston with no silicon, but since the silicon is fully alloyed on a molecular level (eutectic), the alloy is less brittle and more flexible than a stock hypereutectic “smog” (low compression) piston. These pistons can survive mild detonation with less damage than stock pistons. 4032 and hypereutectic alloys have a low coefficient of thermal expansion, allowing tighter piston to cylinder bore fit at assembly temperature.

The “2618” performance piston alloy has less than 2% silicon, and could be described as hypo (under) eutectic. This alloy is capable of experiencing the most detonation and abuse while suffering the least amount of damage. Pistons made of this alloy are also typically made thicker and heavier because of their most common applications in commercial diesel engines. Both because of the higher than normal temperatures that these pistons experience in their usual application, and the higher coefficient of thermal expansion due to low-silicon content causing greater thermal growth, these pistons require a larger piston to cylinder bore clearance at assembly temperatures. This leads to a condition known as “piston slap” which is when the piston rocks in the cylinder and it causes an audible tapping noise that continues until the engine has warmed to operational temperatures, expanding the piston and reducing piston to cylinder wall clearance…”

F1 engines will not turn over until they are externally warmed to operating temperature.

Tamb said:

transition said:

more learning today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston
“A hypereutectic piston is an internal combustion engine piston cast using a hypereutectic alloy–that is, a metallic alloy which has a composition beyond the eutectic point. Hypereutectic pistons are made of an aluminum alloy which has much more silicon present than is soluble in aluminum at the operating temperature. Hypereutectic aluminum has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion, which allows engine designers to specify much tighter tolerances.

The most common material used for automotive pistons is aluminum due to its light weight, low cost, and acceptable strength. Although other elements may be present in smaller amounts, the alloying element of concern in aluminum for pistons is silicon. The point at which silicon is fully and exactly soluble in aluminum at operating temperatures is around 12%. Either more or less silicon than this will result in two separate phases in the solidified crystal structure of the metal. This is very common. When significantly more silicon is added to the aluminum than 12%, the properties of the aluminum change in a way that is useful for the purposes of pistons for combustion engines. However, at a blend of 25% silicon, there is a significant reduction of strength in the metal, so hypereutectic pistons commonly use a level of silicon between 16% and 19%. Special moulds, casting, and cooling techniques are required to obtain uniformly dispersed silicon particles throughout the piston material.

Hypereutectic pistons are stronger than more common cast aluminum pistons and used in many high performance applications. They are not as strong as forged pistons, but are much lower cost due to being cast. ….

……The “4032” performance piston alloy has a silicon content of approximately 11%. This means that it expands less than a piston with no silicon, but since the silicon is fully alloyed on a molecular level (eutectic), the alloy is less brittle and more flexible than a stock hypereutectic “smog” (low compression) piston. These pistons can survive mild detonation with less damage than stock pistons. 4032 and hypereutectic alloys have a low coefficient of thermal expansion, allowing tighter piston to cylinder bore fit at assembly temperature.

The “2618” performance piston alloy has less than 2% silicon, and could be described as hypo (under) eutectic. This alloy is capable of experiencing the most detonation and abuse while suffering the least amount of damage. Pistons made of this alloy are also typically made thicker and heavier because of their most common applications in commercial diesel engines. Both because of the higher than normal temperatures that these pistons experience in their usual application, and the higher coefficient of thermal expansion due to low-silicon content causing greater thermal growth, these pistons require a larger piston to cylinder bore clearance at assembly temperatures. This leads to a condition known as “piston slap” which is when the piston rocks in the cylinder and it causes an audible tapping noise that continues until the engine has warmed to operational temperatures, expanding the piston and reducing piston to cylinder wall clearance…”

F1 engines will not turn over until they are externally warmed to operating temperature.

they generally heat the oil too, and add it at the last moment before the car goes out.

captain_spalding said:

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

No real need to, just keep the revs down and use light throttle as much as possible, until the water temp reaches the normal running range. The modern oils are superb for protection.

Spiny Norman said:

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

The short version is -
- Mechanically they are vastly more reliable. A modern car should go for at least 400,000 km before needing any substantial work done to it. A century ago the engines in cars had no oil filter in the system, so they needed to rebuild the engine every couple of years or so. And modern metallurgy is is light-years ahead of what it was back then as well, for example the maximum safe piston speed of some modern engines it about 5,400 ft/min (eg the Honda S2000 engine, which redlines at 9,000 rpm and that’s a good twenty year-old engine now) and some current-day engines even exceed that. The old engines were very limited by both the crude metallurgy of the time and overall standard of engineering available. We can use FEA on powerful computers to refine designs before metal is cut, to get very close to the optimum design.
- Engine design is again light-years ahead of a century ago. The designers back then had very few mathematical analysis tools available to them to assist in designing a good engine. Occasionally someone would accidentally come up with something that seemed to work well, and others would copy it. An example of that is the engine that Ernest Henry made for Peugeot back in 1912. It went well and was copied by a few people, the most successful being the Offenhauser company. The engines they made started off the in the 20’s I think, and were still occasionally competitive until the early 70’s in the US.
Perhaps the most significant improvements have been in cylinder head design. The inlet & exhaust ports in modern engines are vastly improved from the old ones, as we have a very good idea of how air flows now. It was just guesswork back then, no idea what shape to use nor how large they had to be nor what length, etc. The combustion chamber shapes have also changed immensely, with the modern ones able to run a much higher compression ratio (some road cars are up around 12:1, about double that of the century-ago ones) hence can make much more power-per-litre and so it much cleaner as well. One limiting factor of a century ago was the crappy & inconsistent fuels available. They had very low octane ratings and that limited the compression ratio that was able to be used before detonation occurred, which forced the engines to accommodate the lowest quality available. Modern fuels are again much better in every way and are far more detonation resistant, especially the ethanol blended fuels.

I can type a bunch more if you like.

Thanks :-)
More would be a help.
What have I missed in this list?

Car evolution

Early
Width
Front and rear seats
Four wheels
Length
Weight
Steering wheel
Cloth and leather seats
Headlights
Boot
Hardtop
Convertible
Sedan
Glass windows
Steel frame
Front-hinged doors
Front-engine configuration
Diesel or similar fuel
Petrol
Differential
Drum Brakes
Bumper bar
Hand brake
Rack and pinion steering
Gear box
Spare tyre
Tyre lever, jack
Dynamo
Spark plug

Seats
Sliding seats
Lumbar support
Bucket seats
Adjustable head rests
Improved seat comfort
Other seat adjustments
Seat belts
Lap sash seat belts
Retractor seat belts
Racing harness seat belts
60-40 fold down rear seats

Interior
Vinyl interior
Speedometer
Fuel guage
Tachometer
Odometer
Oil pressure
Warning lights
Clock
Heater
Rear window heater
Air conditioner
Radio
Tape player
CD player
USB player
Seat back video
Collapsable steering wheel
Tiltable steering wheel
Rear view mirror
Night setting on rear view mirror
Reversing sensors
Reversing camera

Electrical
Alternator
Carburettor
Lead-acid battery
Calcium battery
NiMH battery
Lithium ion battery
Window wipers
Hybrid engine
Electrical engine
Computer control
Brake lights
Reversing lights
LED lighting
Interior lights
Blinkers
Fog lights
Cruise control
Drnamic cruise control
GPS

Wheels
Pneumatic tyres
Increasing wheel width
Tubeless tyres
Multi-rubber
Cross-ply steel reinforcement
Radial tyres
Tread design and improvements
Alloy rims
5-spoke design
Better balance, alignment and camber

Chassis
Hatchback
Tubular steel frame
Monocoque
Roll cage
Increasing rigidity
Aluminium body
Curved windows
Mid-engine configuration
Carbon fibre
Drag coefficient aerodynamics
Crosswind aerodynamics
Optimisation of external details to improve aerodynamics

Suspension
Sway bar
Independent suspension
Dual fork suspension
Better shock absorbers
Electrically adjustable suspension

Paint
Corrosion prevention
Electrostatic primer coat
Better paint formulations
Surface gel coat

Transmission
Synchromesh gears
Four on the floor
Automatic transmission
Overdrive
Automatic transmission that is fuel efficient
4-WD

Exhaust system
Muffler
Tuned chamber muffler
Smooth flow manifold
Catalytic converter

Brakes
Disk brakes
Replacement of asbestos
Ceramic disk brakes
Antilock braking system
Improved brake cooling
Brake booster

Engine
V8
Twin overhead cam
Counterweighted crankshaft
Optimisation of burning cavity
Fuel injection and resulting in higher compression ratio
Higher engine speed and lower wear
Turbocharger, supercharger
Alloy engine
Improved engine cooling
Improved drive belt & engine timing

And
Sound-proofing
Crumple zones
Fuel tank improvements
Design to minimise heat deformation, eg. spot welding
Structural adhesive
Oil filter
Air filter
Fuel filter
Low sulfur fuel
LPG
Ethanol blends
CAD CAM design and construction
Laser and water-jet cutting

Two things that don’t seem to have improved much since the 1920s are the car jack and tyre iron.

Aruggah horn to various horn types

Spiny Norman said:

captain_spalding said:

Hey, Bill, your opinion, please:

Is it a good idea or even necessary to ‘warm up’ a modern car for e.g. 10 minutes before driving? I mean, Australian climate (esp. Qld), and all…

No real need to, just keep the revs down and use light throttle as much as possible, until the water temp reaches the normal running range. The modern oils are superb for protection.

ta.

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

mollwollfumble said:

About a hundred years ago, cars had about the same length and width as cars today. They had leather or cloth seats, front and back. They had headlights. They had piston engines in front running on something very like diesel. They even had a similar weight to the cars of today.

So, what are the improvements in the car since then?

The short version is -
- Mechanically they are vastly more reliable. A modern car should go for at least 400,000 km before needing any substantial work done to it. A century ago the engines in cars had no oil filter in the system, so they needed to rebuild the engine every couple of years or so. And modern metallurgy is is light-years ahead of what it was back then as well, for example the maximum safe piston speed of some modern engines it about 5,400 ft/min (eg the Honda S2000 engine, which redlines at 9,000 rpm and that’s a good twenty year-old engine now) and some current-day engines even exceed that. The old engines were very limited by both the crude metallurgy of the time and overall standard of engineering available. We can use FEA on powerful computers to refine designs before metal is cut, to get very close to the optimum design.
- Engine design is again light-years ahead of a century ago. The designers back then had very few mathematical analysis tools available to them to assist in designing a good engine. Occasionally someone would accidentally come up with something that seemed to work well, and others would copy it. An example of that is the engine that Ernest Henry made for Peugeot back in 1912. It went well and was copied by a few people, the most successful being the Offenhauser company. The engines they made started off the in the 20’s I think, and were still occasionally competitive until the early 70’s in the US.
Perhaps the most significant improvements have been in cylinder head design. The inlet & exhaust ports in modern engines are vastly improved from the old ones, as we have a very good idea of how air flows now. It was just guesswork back then, no idea what shape to use nor how large they had to be nor what length, etc. The combustion chamber shapes have also changed immensely, with the modern ones able to run a much higher compression ratio (some road cars are up around 12:1, about double that of the century-ago ones) hence can make much more power-per-litre and so it much cleaner as well. One limiting factor of a century ago was the crappy & inconsistent fuels available. They had very low octane ratings and that limited the compression ratio that was able to be used before detonation occurred, which forced the engines to accommodate the lowest quality available. Modern fuels are again much better in every way and are far more detonation resistant, especially the ethanol blended fuels.

I can type a bunch more if you like.

Thanks :-)
More would be a help.
What have I missed in this list?

Car evolution

Early
Width
Front and rear seats
Four wheels
Length
Weight
Steering wheel
Cloth and leather seats
Headlights
Boot
Hardtop
Convertible
Sedan
Glass windows
Steel frame
Front-hinged doors
Front-engine configuration
Diesel or similar fuel
Petrol
Differential
Drum Brakes
Bumper bar
Hand brake
Rack and pinion steering
Gear box
Spare tyre
Tyre lever, jack
Dynamo
Spark plug

Seats
Sliding seats
Lumbar support
Bucket seats
Adjustable head rests
Improved seat comfort
Other seat adjustments
Seat belts
Lap sash seat belts
Retractor seat belts
Racing harness seat belts
60-40 fold down rear seats

Interior
Vinyl interior
Speedometer
Fuel guage
Tachometer
Odometer
Oil pressure
Warning lights
Clock
Heater
Rear window heater
Air conditioner
Radio
Tape player
CD player
USB player
Seat back video
Collapsable steering wheel
Tiltable steering wheel
Rear view mirror
Night setting on rear view mirror
Reversing sensors
Reversing camera

Electrical
Alternator
Carburettor
Lead-acid battery
Calcium battery
NiMH battery
Lithium ion battery
Window wipers
Hybrid engine
Electrical engine
Computer control
Brake lights
Reversing lights
LED lighting
Interior lights
Blinkers
Fog lights
Cruise control
Drnamic cruise control
GPS

Wheels
Pneumatic tyres
Increasing wheel width
Tubeless tyres
Multi-rubber
Cross-ply steel reinforcement
Radial tyres
Tread design and improvements
Alloy rims
5-spoke design
Better balance, alignment and camber

Chassis
Hatchback
Tubular steel frame
Monocoque
Roll cage
Increasing rigidity
Aluminium body
Curved windows
Mid-engine configuration
Carbon fibre
Drag coefficient aerodynamics
Crosswind aerodynamics
Optimisation of external details to improve aerodynamics

Suspension
Sway bar
Independent suspension
Dual fork suspension
Better shock absorbers
Electrically adjustable suspension

Paint
Corrosion prevention
Electrostatic primer coat
Better paint formulations
Surface gel coat

Transmission
Synchromesh gears
Four on the floor
Automatic transmission
Overdrive
Automatic transmission that is fuel efficient
4-WD

Exhaust system
Muffler
Tuned chamber muffler
Smooth flow manifold
Catalytic converter

Brakes
Disk brakes
Replacement of asbestos
Ceramic disk brakes
Antilock braking system
Improved brake cooling
Brake booster

Engine
V8
Twin overhead cam
Counterweighted crankshaft
Optimisation of burning cavity
Fuel injection and resulting in higher compression ratio
Higher engine speed and lower wear
Turbocharger, supercharger
Alloy engine
Improved engine cooling
Improved drive belt & engine timing

And
Sound-proofing
Crumple zones
Fuel tank improvements
Design to minimise heat deformation, eg. spot welding
Structural adhesive
Oil filter
Air filter
Fuel filter
Low sulfur fuel
LPG
Ethanol blends
CAD CAM design and construction
Laser and water-jet cutting

Two things that don’t seem to have improved much since the 1920s are the car jack and tyre iron.

You’re asking for a gigantic amount of information, Moll. Literally every aspect of performance, every physical characteristic, of every process or component of a powered vehicle has been enormously improved multiple times.

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

Ian said:

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

Porsche bucked the trend?

Ian said:

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

The steering left a bit to be desired however..

Ian said:

Ian said:

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

The steering left a bit to be desired however..

..and the brakes

Ian said:

Ian said:

Ian said:

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

The steering left a bit to be desired however..

..and the brakes

Oh the brakes were great, the thing found every wall in town.

Ian said:

Ian said:

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

The steering left a bit to be desired however..

‘By George, he’s invented the Toorak Tractor!’

Ian said:

Ian said:

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

The steering left a bit to be desired however..

Brakes were a bit sad too.

Tamb said:

Ian said:

Ian said:

The basics haven’t changed since Nicolas Cugnot’s first effort.. engine in the front, driver in the middle, load in the rear.

The steering left a bit to be desired however..

Brakes were a bit sad too.

Sorry. Missed by about 10 posts about brakes.

SCIENCE said:

The Ford nucleon. I know of this. Only made as a scale model, never equipped with a a genuine nuclear reactor. There have been nuclear reactors as small as a basketball, but radiation from them is a bit of a problem.

> You’re asking for a gigantic amount of information, Moll. Literally every aspect of performance, every physical characteristic, of every process or component of a powered vehicle has been enormously improved multiple times.

What about just the last 25 years?

Airbags

Approximately how many people have been killed in car accidents, since the invention of the car?

Bubblecar said:

Approximately how many people have been killed in car accidents, since the invention of the car?

Quite a lot.

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

Approximately how many people have been killed in car accidents, since the invention of the car?

Quite a lot.

That’s my understanding, but it would be illuminating to see an actual researched figure.

I’ll have a deeper delve into it in the days ahead.

Bubblecar said:

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

Approximately how many people have been killed in car accidents, since the invention of the car?

Quite a lot.

That’s my understanding, but it would be illuminating to see an actual researched figure.

I’ll have a deeper delve into it in the days ahead.

You will need to define your inclusion criteria very carefully. There’s a hundred variables here.

Bubblecar said:

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

Approximately how many people have been killed in car accidents, since the invention of the car?

Quite a lot.

That’s my understanding, but it would be illuminating to see an actual researched figure.

I’ll have a deeper delve into it in the days ahead.

I’ll make a couple of ballpark estimates.

1350000 people died of car accidents in 2016.
About 40000 of these were in the USA.
About 4100000 people have died of car accidents in the USA altogether.

If we were to assume that the ratio of the current rate of death to the overall death count in the USA is on average the same as the ROTW, then we would estimate that about 138 million people have died in car accidents. I can see reasons which this ratio would be higher elsewhere and other reasons why it might be lower but it’s going to be around that order of magnitude.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Rule 303 said:

Quite a lot.

That’s my understanding, but it would be illuminating to see an actual researched figure.

I’ll have a deeper delve into it in the days ahead.

I’ll make a couple of ballpark estimates.

1350000 people died of car accidents in 2016.
About 40000 of these were in the USA.
About 4100000 people have died of car accidents in the USA altogether.

If we were to assume that the ratio of the current rate of death to the overall death count in the USA is on average the same as the ROTW, then we would estimate that about 138 million people have died in car accidents. I can see reasons which this ratio would be higher elsewhere and other reasons why it might be lower but it’s going to be around that order of magnitude.

Nah, on current odds, you’re 11 times more likely to die of a road acc in the US than Australia in any given year.

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

That’s my understanding, but it would be illuminating to see an actual researched figure.

I’ll have a deeper delve into it in the days ahead.

I’ll make a couple of ballpark estimates.

1350000 people died of car accidents in 2016.
About 40000 of these were in the USA.
About 4100000 people have died of car accidents in the USA altogether.

If we were to assume that the ratio of the current rate of death to the overall death count in the USA is on average the same as the ROTW, then we would estimate that about 138 million people have died in car accidents. I can see reasons which this ratio would be higher elsewhere and other reasons why it might be lower but it’s going to be around that order of magnitude.

Nah, on current odds, you’re 11 times more likely to die of a road acc in the US than Australia in any given year.

I think you’ve both misunderstood and miscalculated.

a) My calculation isn’t based on the notion that death rates are the same the globe over, but that the deaths per year now form about the same ratio to deaths ever in the USA as in the globe as a whole.

b) You’re about twice as likely to die of a road accident in the USA than in Australia, not 11 times.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Rule 303 said:

Quite a lot.

That’s my understanding, but it would be illuminating to see an actual researched figure.

I’ll have a deeper delve into it in the days ahead.

we would estimate that about 138 million people have died in car accidents

damn that’s going to be a lot of future car accident fatalities that COVID-19 has saved

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

That’s my understanding, but it would be illuminating to see an actual researched figure.

I’ll have a deeper delve into it in the days ahead.

we would estimate that about 138 million people have died in car accidents

damn that’s going to be a lot of future car accident fatalities that COVID-19 has saved

Aye.
The HMR remains locked on 100%.

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

I’ll make a couple of ballpark estimates.

1350000 people died of car accidents in 2016.
About 40000 of these were in the USA.
About 4100000 people have died of car accidents in the USA altogether.

If we were to assume that the ratio of the current rate of death to the overall death count in the USA is on average the same as the ROTW, then we would estimate that about 138 million people have died in car accidents. I can see reasons which this ratio would be higher elsewhere and other reasons why it might be lower but it’s going to be around that order of magnitude.

Nah, on current odds, you’re 11 times more likely to die of a road acc in the US than Australia in any given year.

I think you’ve both misunderstood and miscalculated.

a) My calculation isn’t based on the notion that death rates are the same the globe over, but that the deaths per year now form about the same ratio to deaths ever in the USA as in the globe as a whole.

b) You’re about twice as likely to die of a road accident in the USA than in Australia, not 11 times.

I suspect you’re right on both counts, but the first conclusion assumes that the primary definers for death in road crashes around the world have progressed along roughly the same path at roughly the same rate, which although probably sufficient for an estimate, severely lacks granularity.

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

Nah, on current odds, you’re 11 times more likely to die of a road acc in the US than Australia in any given year.

I think you’ve both misunderstood and miscalculated.

a) My calculation isn’t based on the notion that death rates are the same the globe over, but that the deaths per year now form about the same ratio to deaths ever in the USA as in the globe as a whole.

b) You’re about twice as likely to die of a road accident in the USA than in Australia, not 11 times.

I suspect you’re right on both counts, but the first conclusion assumes that the primary definers for death in road crashes around the world have progressed along roughly the same path at roughly the same rate, which although probably sufficient for an estimate, severely lacks granularity.

Sure.

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

I’ll make a couple of ballpark estimates.

1350000 people died of car accidents in 2016.
About 40000 of these were in the USA.
About 4100000 people have died of car accidents in the USA altogether.

If we were to assume that the ratio of the current rate of death to the overall death count in the USA is on average the same as the ROTW, then we would estimate that about 138 million people have died in car accidents. I can see reasons which this ratio would be higher elsewhere and other reasons why it might be lower but it’s going to be around that order of magnitude.

Nah, on current odds, you’re 11 times more likely to die of a road acc in the US than Australia in any given year.

I think you’ve both misunderstood and miscalculated.

a) My calculation isn’t based on the notion that death rates are the same the globe over, but that the deaths per year now form about the same ratio to deaths ever in the USA as in the globe as a whole.

b) You’re about twice as likely to die of a road accident in the USA than in Australia, not 11 times.

Is this an improvement over the past 100 years of motoring, or not?
In terms of deaths per distance travelled it’s a big improvement.
In terms of absolute number of deaths, I’m not so sure.

I’ve got a definition of what constitutes an improvement in cars, now:

Improvement = Torque/weight + Detailing + Longevity + Safety + Comfort + Lower cost

Four things we don’t have in most motor cars that I’d like to see:

• Universal Serial Bus wiring harness at 12 volts (ie. 80% less wiring and PNP additions)
• Beauty
• Wipers that cover the whole window, including drivers side window
• Bring back the bumper bar so it doesn’t cost >$1,000 and smash lights when someone backs into you.

I’ve now added about 70 more items on the list of items related to the evolution of the motor car, eg rear wing, electronic distributor.

Rule 303 said:

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

The short version is -
- Mechanically they are vastly more reliable. A modern car should go for at least 400,000 km before needing any substantial work done to it. A century ago the engines in cars had no oil filter in the system, so they needed to rebuild the engine every couple of years or so. And modern metallurgy is is light-years ahead of what it was back then as well, for example the maximum safe piston speed of some modern engines it about 5,400 ft/min (eg the Honda S2000 engine, which redlines at 9,000 rpm and that’s a good twenty year-old engine now) and some current-day engines even exceed that. The old engines were very limited by both the crude metallurgy of the time and overall standard of engineering available. We can use FEA on powerful computers to refine designs before metal is cut, to get very close to the optimum design.
- Engine design is again light-years ahead of a century ago. The designers back then had very few mathematical analysis tools available to them to assist in designing a good engine. Occasionally someone would accidentally come up with something that seemed to work well, and others would copy it. An example of that is the engine that Ernest Henry made for Peugeot back in 1912. It went well and was copied by a few people, the most successful being the Offenhauser company. The engines they made started off the in the 20’s I think, and were still occasionally competitive until the early 70’s in the US.
Perhaps the most significant improvements have been in cylinder head design. The inlet & exhaust ports in modern engines are vastly improved from the old ones, as we have a very good idea of how air flows now. It was just guesswork back then, no idea what shape to use nor how large they had to be nor what length, etc. The combustion chamber shapes have also changed immensely, with the modern ones able to run a much higher compression ratio (some road cars are up around 12:1, about double that of the century-ago ones) hence can make much more power-per-litre and so it much cleaner as well. One limiting factor of a century ago was the crappy & inconsistent fuels available. They had very low octane ratings and that limited the compression ratio that was able to be used before detonation occurred, which forced the engines to accommodate the lowest quality available. Modern fuels are again much better in every way and are far more detonation resistant, especially the ethanol blended fuels.

I can type a bunch more if you like.

Thanks :-)
More would be a help.
What have I missed in this list?

Car evolution

Early
Width
Front and rear seats
Four wheels
Length
Weight
Steering wheel
Cloth and leather seats
Headlights
Boot
Hardtop
Convertible
Sedan
Glass windows
Steel frame
Front-hinged doors
Front-engine configuration
Diesel or similar fuel
Petrol
Differential
Drum Brakes
Bumper bar
Hand brake
Rack and pinion steering
Gear box
Spare tyre
Tyre lever, jack
Dynamo
Spark plug

Seats
Sliding seats
Lumbar support
Bucket seats
Adjustable head rests
Improved seat comfort
Other seat adjustments
Seat belts
Lap sash seat belts
Retractor seat belts
Racing harness seat belts
60-40 fold down rear seats

Interior
Vinyl interior
Speedometer
Fuel guage
Tachometer
Odometer
Oil pressure
Warning lights
Clock
Heater
Rear window heater
Air conditioner
Radio
Tape player
CD player
USB player
Seat back video
Collapsable steering wheel
Tiltable steering wheel
Rear view mirror
Night setting on rear view mirror
Reversing sensors
Reversing camera

Electrical
Alternator
Carburettor
Lead-acid battery
Calcium battery
NiMH battery
Lithium ion battery
Window wipers
Hybrid engine
Electrical engine
Computer control
Brake lights
Reversing lights
LED lighting
Interior lights
Blinkers
Fog lights
Cruise control
Drnamic cruise control
GPS

Wheels
Pneumatic tyres
Increasing wheel width
Tubeless tyres
Multi-rubber
Cross-ply steel reinforcement
Radial tyres
Tread design and improvements
Alloy rims
5-spoke design
Better balance, alignment and camber

Chassis
Hatchback
Tubular steel frame
Monocoque
Roll cage
Increasing rigidity
Aluminium body
Curved windows
Mid-engine configuration
Carbon fibre
Drag coefficient aerodynamics
Crosswind aerodynamics
Optimisation of external details to improve aerodynamics

Suspension
Sway bar
Independent suspension
Dual fork suspension
Better shock absorbers
Electrically adjustable suspension

Paint
Corrosion prevention
Electrostatic primer coat
Better paint formulations
Surface gel coat

Transmission
Synchromesh gears
Four on the floor
Automatic transmission
Overdrive
Automatic transmission that is fuel efficient
4-WD

Exhaust system
Muffler
Tuned chamber muffler
Smooth flow manifold
Catalytic converter

Brakes
Disk brakes
Replacement of asbestos
Ceramic disk brakes
Antilock braking system
Improved brake cooling
Brake booster

Engine
V8
Twin overhead cam
Counterweighted crankshaft
Optimisation of burning cavity
Fuel injection and resulting in higher compression ratio
Higher engine speed and lower wear
Turbocharger, supercharger
Alloy engine
Improved engine cooling
Improved drive belt & engine timing

And
Sound-proofing
Crumple zones
Fuel tank improvements
Design to minimise heat deformation, eg. spot welding
Structural adhesive
Oil filter
Air filter
Fuel filter
Low sulfur fuel
LPG
Ethanol blends
CAD CAM design and construction
Laser and water-jet cutting

Two things that don’t seem to have improved much since the 1920s are the car jack and tyre iron.

You’re asking for a gigantic amount of information, Moll. Literally every aspect of performance, every physical characteristic, of every process or component of a powered vehicle has been enormously improved multiple times.

Yeah, from putting the washer on the nut to better ‘o’ ring seals.
To be clear, what could change about a tyre iron or lever to use the correct word?
There has been a different jack for virtually every car design. Yes, they aren’t all that different but different enough to confuse many new car owners the first time they have to use it.