In the centuries before prisons, there was slavery. In Hebrew society, a person convicted of a serious crime could suffer the penalty eg. stoning to death, having their hand cut off or eye gouged out. Or they could enter into a bondage contract for a specified number of years with a bigwig and serve out the sentence as a slave.

Which makes me wonder. Which would you rather do? Spend 15 years as a prisoner with no parole. Or spend 15 years as a slave, having no prior knowledge of how good or bad the slave owner is?

For myself, I really don’t know.

I think you’d have to let the prisoner choose the master, or else have an escape clause that they can return to prison if it doesn’t work out.

The big issue though is how you deal with the sexual relations question. This has to come up in the discussion somewhere. Slavery inevitably tends towards sexual harassment, exploitation and/or assault. You would need to come up with a model that protects the slave’s basic human dignity and rights over their own body. I am not sure such a model exists.

Generally slavery was banned because it was a shit concept.

so what we(1,1,1)’re saying is, it is a meaningful discussion to consider whether the veil of ignorance is a valuable concept, and how to apply it

all depends on conditions for the whatever period wherever

most of the value contributing to social order (productivity etc) of systems of punishment for wrongs done is in the deterrent effect, so the question could also be asked of which possibility you might be more greatly deterred, not which you might be more attracted to

of course all that you’ve been deterred from doing didn’t happen, never happened, but what did happen emerged from in-substantial-part the broader possibility space including things that were prevented from happening

someone might ask are things prevented from happening real, i’d answer yes they are, but i’m into philosophical torture

The romans used to rape their slaves if they wanted to.

Working in a prison in someway would be better I’d say.

The other option is don’t get caught alive. Spartacus was foolish enough to turn back instead of leaving the Roman empire proper, well you know the rest.

Slavery is still alive and well outside the western world.

wookiemeister said:

The romans used to rape their slaves if they wanted to.

Working in a prison in someway would be better I’d say.

The other option is don’t get caught alive. Spartacus was foolish enough to turn back instead of leaving the Roman empire proper, well you know the rest.

Slavery is still alive and well outside the western world.

It is still constitutional in the US as punishment for a crime of which someone has been duly convicted.

Trying a glass of the Jacobs Creek Shiraz aged in the whisky barrel.

Not bad. Not exactly top notch but it is certainly drinkable.

might have had too much

jokes

anyway for midnight philosophy along some similar lines to the basis of this thread we suggest another question they might ask is, which might one prefer, (A) a society with broad personal freedoms enshrined in some legal document but with strong conformity pressure from usual interpersonal relations, (B) a society where rules are presumed to be chosen on the basis of collective benefit and conformity pressure arises from said rules for which enforcement is felt to be more proximate

wookiemeister said:

The romans used to rape their slaves if they wanted to.

Working in a prison in someway would be better I’d say.

The other option is don’t get caught alive. Spartacus was foolish enough to turn back instead of leaving the Roman empire proper, well you know the rest.

Umm no. Then what happens?

party_pants said:

I think you’d have to let the prisoner choose the master, or else have an escape clause that they can return to prison if it doesn’t work out.

The big issue though is how you deal with the sexual relations question. This has to come up in the discussion somewhere. Slavery inevitably tends towards sexual harassment, exploitation and/or assault. You would need to come up with a model that protects the slave’s basic human dignity and rights over their own body. I am not sure such a model exists.

Generally slavery was banned because it was a shit concept.

> the sexual relations question

So the sexual relations question is: heterosexual relations in slavery vs homosexual relations in prison?

> Generally slavery was banned because it was a shit concept.

That’s a very interesting take on the matter. I agree with you there.

How about one from Column A & one from Column B ?

Corporate Prisons are all the rage in the USofA

in which you only have freedom to leave your cell for work.

Not quite slavery in as much as you get paid… “Slave Wages”
that’s to say a mere fraction of what a free worker would make.

Banking on Bondage: Private Prisons and Mass Incarceration

o…but it gets better…

from an early age a certain portion of the population are singled out
Stop & Frisk Statistics

What Rights Do Convicted Felons Lose?

iow: being in possession of a joint has the potential to ruin your entire life.
Unable to seek higher education, or a better job, surrounded by same people
and life style that got you busted in the first place…
…and without the Right to Vote, you can’t even change the circumstance

Stuck in an infinite loop, how is this not a form of slavery (Cheap Labour)?

“Sexual Circumstances”? How ‘bout Getting F_ukt By the System? )-8