Ize luvs yas all! HUGZ 🧡💛💚💙💜
Put your Valentines here.
Ize luvs yas all! HUGZ 🧡💛💚💙💜
Put your Valentines here.
Woodie said:
Ize luvs yas all! HUGZ 🧡💛💚💙💜Put your Valentines here.
He’s drunk before lunch again.
Think I’ll go eat worms.
sarahs mum said:
Think I’ll go eat worms.
No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Think I’ll go eat worms.No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
Woodie said:
Ize luvs yas all! HUGZ 🧡💛💚💙💜Put your Valentines here.
(blush) This is all so sudden
dv said:
Woodie said:
Ize luvs yas all! HUGZ 🧡💛💚💙💜Put your Valentines here.
(blush) This is all so sudden
How was C? Did you get motion sickness?
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Woodie said:
Ize luvs yas all! HUGZ 🧡💛💚💙💜Put your Valentines here.
(blush) This is all so sudden
How was C? Did you get motion sickness?
Witty, today is Valentine’s Day… we didn’t go yet.
Some vintage Valentine cards with a food theme.






dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:(blush) This is all so sudden
How was C? Did you get motion sickness?
Witty, today is Valentine’s Day… we didn’t go yet.
Ahhh okay. Senior’s moment there.
Bubblecar said:
Some vintage Valentine cards with a food theme.
Last one is a bit creepy.
Stalking gun death murder theme:





![]()

Bubblecar said:
Stalking gun death murder theme:
Creepier still, but I’ll say nothing.
Road carnage theme:



Disease and random creepiness:







captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Think I’ll go eat worms.No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
^ This.
Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy.
Divine Angel said:
Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy.
That seems fitting.
Divine Angel said:
Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy.
that fits.
Peak Warming Man said:
Divine Angel said:
Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy.
That seems fitting.
snap.
JudgeMental said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Divine Angel said:
Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy.
That seems fitting.
snap.
You two are terrible.
Nothing in Fridays post, they’ll probably all come in Mondays post.
Yeah that’ll be it.
JudgeMental said:
Divine Angel said:
Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy.
that fits.
Tamb said:
JudgeMental said:
Divine Angel said:
Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy.
that fits.
LOL
Didn’t know that.
https://www.epilepsy.com/article/2015/2/valentines-day-not-just-lovers#:~:text=The%20celebration%20in%20honor%20of%20the%20patron%20saint,million%20children%20and%20adults%20in%20the%20United%20States.
…
“So, in the wake of this Valentine’s Day, when all the sugar-coated, floral-scented hype has passed, remember that Valentine’s Day is not just for lovers. Today, medical research, an increasing variety of scientifically proven therapies, and programs and events like the National Walk for Epilepsy are helping to raise awareness and help people with epilepsy live to their fullest potential.”
Divine Angel said:
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Think I’ll go eat worms.No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
^ This.
Agree 100%.
Michael V said:
Divine Angel said:
captain_spalding said:No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
^ This.
Agree 100%.
Can we still go out to dinner …
dv said:
Michael V said:
Divine Angel said:^ This.
Agree 100%.
Can we still go out to dinner …
Sure, you gotta eat.
dv said:
Michael V said:
Divine Angel said:^ This.
Agree 100%.
Can we still go out to dinner …
No.
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Think I’ll go eat worms.No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
This.
If you love someone you should remind them every day.roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Think I’ll go eat worms.No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
This.
If you love someone you should remind them every day.
By doing the ironing?
Witty Rejoinder said:
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
This.
If you love someone you should remind them every day.By doing the ironing?
That’s one way.
Michael V said:
Divine Angel said:
captain_spalding said:No.
Defy Valentine’s Day.
It’s just an exercise in marketing and commercialising guilt.
You don’t need it, we don’t need it, no-one needs it.
Defy it and its psychology.
^ This.
Agree 100%.
OTOH, the same applies to Mothers Day, Fathers Day, Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc.
But some people choose to enjoy those days anyway and just ignore the commercial aspects.
Divine Angel said:
dv said:
Michael V said:Agree 100%.
Can we still go out to dinner …
Sure, you gotta eat.
Ok it’s a good excuse for that, i’ll grant you.
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Divine Angel said:^ This.
Agree 100%.
OTOH, the same applies to Mothers Day, Fathers Day, Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc.
But some people choose to enjoy those days anyway and just ignore the commercial aspects.
What i’m trying to say is that we shouldn’t allow commercialisation to shame us into feeling that we’re ‘not right’ if we don’t fit the picture they present of the occasion, or behave as they tell us we ought to.
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:Agree 100%.
OTOH, the same applies to Mothers Day, Fathers Day, Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc.
But some people choose to enjoy those days anyway and just ignore the commercial aspects.
What i’m trying to say is that we shouldn’t allow commercialisation to shame us into feeling that we’re ‘not right’ if we don’t fit the picture they present of the occasion, or behave as they tell us we ought to.
Happy valentines’ day massacre.

HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.
:-)
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
I’ll have to take the blockbuster to my heap of bush harlots(mallee roots)
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
happy venereal disease?
JudgeMental said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
happy venereal disease?
now you are bordering on funny.
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
Main course worms.
JudgeMental said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
happy venereal disease?
It’s been known as Sexually Transmitted Infection for about thirty years.
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
Main course worms.
Being vegetarian my main purpose is to eat roots shoots and leaves.
Also, anyone feel like they could interpret this collection of emojis for me?

Rule 303 said:
Also, anyone feel like they could interpret this collection of emojis for me?
Wait, I think I have it: According to Google – Confetti ball, Party popper, Love.
Rule 303 said:
Rule 303 said:
Also, anyone feel like they could interpret this collection of emojis for me?
Wait, I think I have it: According to Google – Confetti ball, Party popper, Love.
My heart beats to pop my cork.
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
She doesn’t know everyone so that’s OK, it means that the people she knows do at least love her iin their own ways.
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
Rule 303 said:
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
good point and well made if I dare say so myself.
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:
HVD to all those who could use some cheering up and a good root.:-)
Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
Sudden :)
Tamb said:
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
Always amused in history class when mention was made of The Diet Of Worms.
So the only problem I could see with worms was that it was more difficult than a prawn to get rid of the shit trail.
Rule 303 said:
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
There’s a goodly list of people who don’t like me. But there is a bunch of people who like me for the same reasons.
My mother hated me. But I survived her.
roughbarked said:
Tamb said:
Michael V said:Not everyone hates you.
Always amused in history class when mention was made of The Diet Of Worms.So the only problem I could see with worms was that it was more difficult than a prawn to get rid of the shit trail.
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:
Tamb said:Always amused in history class when mention was made of The Diet Of Worms.
So the only problem I could see with worms was that it was more difficult than a prawn to get rid of the shit trail.
When my Dad caught prawns he used to drown them in fresh water they’d spew up all the black line stuff.
Think to myself that the aborigines were using water for such purposes before any others.
Meaning that it takes time to learn such things.
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:
Michael V said:Not everyone hates you.
I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
There’s a goodly list of people who don’t like me. But there is a bunch of people who like me for the same reasons.
My mother hated me. But I survived her.
It’s a worthy pursuit, to outlive out detractors.
:-)
Rule 303 said:
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
There’s a goodly list of people who don’t like me. But there is a bunch of people who like me for the same reasons.
My mother hated me. But I survived her.
It’s a worthy pursuit, to outlive out detractors.
:-)
That’s a way of putting it. ;)
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
There’s a goodly list of people who don’t like me. But there is a bunch of people who like me for the same reasons.
My mother hated me. But I survived her.
It’s a worthy pursuit, to outlive our detractors.
:-)
(fixed. f’n autotext)
Rule 303 said:
sarahs mum said:
Rule 303 said:I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
There’s a goodly list of people who don’t like me. But there is a bunch of people who like me for the same reasons.
My mother hated me. But I survived her.
It’s a worthy pursuit, to outlive out detractors.
:-)
Rule 303 said:
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:Main course worms.
Not everyone hates you.
I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
I was commenting on the second line of the ditty.
Michael V said:
Rule 303 said:
Michael V said:Not everyone hates you.
I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
I was commenting on the second line of the ditty.
Dunno this ditty?
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:
Rule 303 said:I would be very surprised if anyone hated SM.
I was commenting on the second line of the ditty.
Dunno this ditty?
sm does.
……………………………………………………….
This is one version. The one I know is a little different.
Nobody Likes Me (Think I’ll Go Eat Worms)
Sean O’Boyle
Nobody likes me
Everybody hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Downgoes the first one
Down goes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Up comes the first one
Up comes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
No body likes me
Every body hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Michael V said:
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:I was commenting on the second line of the ditty.
Dunno this ditty?
sm does.
……………………………………………………….
This is one version. The one I know is a little different.
Nobody Likes Me (Think I’ll Go Eat Worms)
Sean O’BoyleNobody likes me
Everybody hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Downgoes the first one
Down goes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Up comes the first one
Up comes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
No body likes me
Every body hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
We used to sing..
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
Ones that wiggle and squirm.
sarahs mum said:
Michael V said:
roughbarked said:Dunno this ditty?
sm does.
……………………………………………………….
This is one version. The one I know is a little different.
Nobody Likes Me (Think I’ll Go Eat Worms)
Sean O’BoyleNobody likes me
Everybody hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Downgoes the first one
Down goes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Up comes the first one
Up comes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
No body likes me
Every body hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
We used to sing..
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
Ones that wiggle and squirm.
Yes..
Bite their heads off
Suck their juice out
Throw their skins away
.
Tasty stuff
sarahs mum said:
Michael V said:
roughbarked said:Dunno this ditty?
sm does.
……………………………………………………….
This is one version. The one I know is a little different.
Nobody Likes Me (Think I’ll Go Eat Worms)
Sean O’BoyleNobody likes me
Everybody hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Downgoes the first one
Down goes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Up comes the first one
Up comes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
No body likes me
Every body hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
We used to sing..
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
Ones that wiggle and squirm.
very similar.
“Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
I think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
See how they wiggle and squirm.”
Ian said:
sarahs mum said:
Michael V said:sm does.
……………………………………………………….
This is one version. The one I know is a little different.
Nobody Likes Me (Think I’ll Go Eat Worms)
Sean O’BoyleNobody likes me
Everybody hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Downgoes the first one
Down goes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Up comes the first one
Up comes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
No body likes me
Every body hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
We used to sing..
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
Ones that wiggle and squirm.Yes..
Bite their heads off
Suck their juice out
Throw their skins away.
Tasty stuff
yes.
I remember that now. But not the ending.
Ian said:
sarahs mum said:
Michael V said:sm does.
……………………………………………………….
This is one version. The one I know is a little different.
Nobody Likes Me (Think I’ll Go Eat Worms)
Sean O’BoyleNobody likes me
Everybody hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Downgoes the first one
Down goes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Up comes the first one
Up comes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
No body likes me
Every body hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
We used to sing..
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
Ones that wiggle and squirm.Yes..
Bite their heads off
Suck their juice out
Throw their skins away.
Tasty stuff
Yep.
:)
sarahs mum said:
Ian said:
sarahs mum said:We used to sing..
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
Ones that wiggle and squirm.Yes..
Bite their heads off
Suck their juice out
Throw their skins away.
Tasty stuff
yes.
I remember that now. But not the ending.
The version I know is
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me,
Think I’ll go eat worms.
Fat ones, thin ones,
Long ones, short one,
Worms that squiggle and squirm.
Bite their heads off
Suck their blood out,
Throw their skins away…
…nobody knows how much I love my worms three times a day! Yum, yum!
sarahs mum said:
Ian said:
sarahs mum said:We used to sing..
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Think I’ll go eat worms
Big ones little ones
Fat ones skinny ones
Ones that wiggle and squirm.Yes..
Bite their heads off
Suck their juice out
Throw their skins away.
Tasty stuff
yes.
I remember that now. But not the ending.
“Bite their heads off
Suck all the juice out
Throw the skins away
Nobody knows
How well I thrive
On worms three times a day.”

Thanks Buffy. Thanks Mr V.
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:
Ian said:Yes..
Bite their heads off
Suck their juice out
Throw their skins away.
Tasty stuff
yes.
I remember that now. But not the ending.“Bite their heads off
Suck all the juice out
Throw the skins awayNobody knows
How well I thrive
On worms three times a day.”
Yeah that version was required learning in the Hitler Youth Boy Scouts.
This was our version:
“Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
I think I’ll go eat worms
Long thin skinny ones
Short fat juicy ones
See how they wiggle and squirm.
Bite their heads off
Suck all the juice out
Throw the skins away
Nobody knows
How well I thrive
On worms three times a day.”
sarahs mum said:
Thanks Buffy. Thanks Mr V.
I’ve got a copy of “I saw Esau. The Schoolchildren’s Pocket Book”. (Opie and Opie and Sendak). It’s got a slightly different version (but it’s Brit)
Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
Going in the garden
To-eat-worms
Big fat juicy ones
Little squiggly, niggly ones
Going in the garden
To-eat-worms
Ian said:
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:yes.
I remember that now. But not the ending.“Bite their heads off
Suck all the juice out
Throw the skins awayNobody knows
How well I thrive
On worms three times a day.”
Yeah that version was required learning in the
Hitler YouthBoy Scouts.
Ha! I had to go to Cubs and then Scouts.
You see, my father was the District Commissioner of Scouts when we lived in Wagga. He met Mum in the Scouts. She was an Akela. He used to sing the song lots in the car…
Left out the bits about:
Bite their heads off,
suck their guts out,
Throw their skins away.
Nobody knows how man can survive on
worms three times a day
Michael V said:
sm does.
………………………………………………………This is one version. The one I know is a little different.
Nobody Likes Me (Think I’ll Go Eat Worms)
Sean O’BoyleNobody likes me
Everybody hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Downgoes the first one
Down goes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
Up comes the first one
Up comes the second one
Oh how they wiggle and squirm
Big fat juicy ones
Long thin slimey ones
Itsy bitsy, fuzzy wuzzy worms
No body likes me
Every body hates me
Guess I’ll go eat worms
Woodie said:
Left out the bits about:Bite their heads off,
suck their guts out,
Throw their skins away.
Nobody knows how man can survive on worms three times a dayOIC. These words have been remembered. :)

captain_spalding said:
ooo. errr.
There has been times in my life that I have enjoyed a bowl of biscuits and gravy.
sarahs mum said:
captain_spalding said:
ooo. errr.
There has been times in my life that I have enjoyed a bowl of biscuits and gravy.
Wrong thread, it was.
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
captain_spalding said:
ooo. errr.
There has been times in my life that I have enjoyed a bowl of biscuits and gravy.
Wrong thread, it was.
I remember being in the maternity ward with Sarah and I watched an episode of the Waltons where a woman made a bowl of biscuits and gravy and served it out in the field to her husband. And I cried so much.
Michael V said:
This was our version:“Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
I think I’ll go eat worms
Long thin skinny ones
Short fat juicy ones
See how they wiggle and squirm.Bite their heads off
Suck all the juice out
Throw the skins awayNobody knows
How well I thrive
On worms three times a day.”
Yes. Boy scouts. It’s amazing how the wording has remained intact over distance and time. Compared to a lot of other quotes and lyrics.
My favourite ever Valentines day card was written by Linus of Peanuts. It was in German. The words are:
“Liebe Valentin
Ich Liebe Dich
Wo Immer Du Bist”
which translates as: “Dear Valentine, I love you … Whoever you are”.
dv said:
and just to make sure, we’ve made the sign big enough to read.
roughbarked said:
dv said:
and just to make sure, we’ve made the sign big enough to read.
I use Helium Balloons.
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
dv said:
and just to make sure, we’ve made the sign big enough to read.
I use Helium Balloons.
I never used to have this problem but now there are dead bodies all over the place and I have to get rid of them almost every day, this seems the most efficient way to dispose of them.
This is annoying. Why use H and not Ha?
dv said:
![]()
This is annoying. Why use H and not Ha?
Because Ha is not an element I can only assume.
dv said:
![]()
This is annoying. Why use H and not Ha?
Could it be because there’s no element with the symbol Ha? There was one, hahnium, but it was formally renamed dubnium (Db) in 1997.
btm said:
dv said:
![]()
This is annoying. Why use H and not Ha?
Could it be because there’s no element with the symbol Ha? There was one, hahnium, but it was formally renamed dubnium (Db) in 1997.
Now, now, btm, he may get a complex if all the EEs pile onto him. Let’s just take it in turns, eh.
sibeen said:
btm said:
dv said:
![]()
This is annoying. Why use H and not Ha?
Could it be because there’s no element with the symbol Ha? There was one, hahnium, but it was formally renamed dubnium (Db) in 1997.
Now, now, btm, he may get a complex if all the EEs pile onto him. Let’s just take it in turns, eh.
He doesn’t read my posts anyway :)