Date: 20/02/2021 22:44:05
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1699682
Subject: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

H.G.Wells “The sleeper wakes” is a prediction for the year 2100, published in 1899. So looking 200 years into the future from the end of the Victorian era.

I can’t help comparing it with Heinlein “For us the living” which is a prediction for the year 2086, published in 1939 looking 150 years into the future to 2096.

‘The sleeper wakes’ is a capitalist tyranny.
‘For us the living’ is a capitalist utopia.

Both novels got the “capitalist” correct.

Both novels have moving walkways throughout the cities, H.G.Wells got to this idea long before Heinlein. The moving walkways in ‘the sleeper wakes’ functioned like baggage claim carousels but had seats. In one instance a political demonstration through the city was seated.

Another similarity is that for both novels the sleeper wakes up with plenty of money, but Wells is more megalomanic, the sleeper wakes owning the world. Another similarity in both novels is that the sleeper gets to fly/pilot an aircraft a few days after waking up.

The main thrust of Heinlein is economics and sexual freedom. Nobody has to work in order to live, because of social services.

The main thrust of Wells is government and capitalism vs communism. A third of the workforce are virtual slaves.

Wells manages to get some predictions startlingly accurate. Appartments with minimal ornamentation. Skyscrapers. Wind power plants everywhere (even on top of skyscrapers). Also minor items sometimes. The dominant entertainment device is recognisable as Amazon Echo/Alexa. Handsome men wear what is recognisable as a T-shirt. You have to remember that ‘the sleeper wakes’ was published before the first skyscraper was built.

Wells is deliberately provocative. The manufacturer of non-presciption-medicine pills has higher status than a university medical professor. That provocative prediction has definitely come true. As is the statement that this manufacturer can produce 10 million pills a day.

Wells correctly said that the roads would supersede the rainways (particularly in Britain) but didn’t pick that roads would be paved with bitumin or concrete.

Wells incorrectly said that balloons and kites would be more used than heavier than air airplanes. He did correctly pick that the planes would be monoplanes and got the size quite accurate, but he missed the possibility of an enclosed cabin for planes so the planes couldn’t fly high. (‘the sleeper awakes’ was written before the Wright brothers first flight).

Another incorrect prediction was that hypnotherapy would replace antibiotics and other prescription medicine.

Another deliberately provocative prediction is that hairdressers have a higher status than painters. Nobody wants a rectangle of paint on canvas on their walls.

Another deliberately provocative prediction is that Wells says that there are no teachers any more. All teaching is done by sound and cinema recordings. This is just about coming true. By the year 2100 it may be correct.

Also provocative is the wet nursing of babies and toddlers by robots (lifelike from the waist up) in creches. Doesn’t seem likely.

Motherhood among the middle class is limited to having one baby. The middle class population is in sharp decline. This does seem likely.

Another provocative is that all the police are negro, imported from several African countries.

Another provocative is the highly ranked “ministry of piggeries”. Cows and sheep are no longer meat animals. Although this sounds ridioculous, if you substitute “chicken” for “pig”, it actually makes sense as aleady a very large proportion of our meat intake is chicken. Other meats are only for the wealthy and in Wells’ dystopia most people can’t afford luxuries like beef.

Yet another provocative is that the economic slavery started off as the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army found short term work for the destitute in return for food, so as the number of destituite rises above 30% of the population, everybody only has the choice of short term work for negligible pay.

Another provocative but correct prediction (by Heinlein as well) is the loss of the gold standard backing currency. Gold has negligible intrinsic value.

In ‘the sleeper wakes’, apart from T-shirts, clothing includes robes, capes (and puffs) that are coloured as a uniform to identify your job status. Wells gets women’s “evening dress” right. He misses the unisex clothing revolution.

On the topic of sex, Wells has most people in male-female marriage or equivalent (de facto). Fair enough. He also posits the existence of “pleasure cities” which puts me in mind of Los Vegas.

On gambling, the most common gambling in the year 2100 is on insurance – is the insurance policy going to pay off or not?

On religion, religion has reduced to ‘pay now and get religion immediately using hypnotherapy’.

On advertising, although stomach churning advertising is said to be everywhere, it seems as though advertising in the present day is even more prevalent than Wells predicted.

I should also add that Wells, 25 years later, thought he had made a big mistake. Cities by then were spreading outward rather than upward. But he was right in the first place, tall glass-fronted skyscrapers with footbridges between them are already a common feature of city centres around the world.

On language. Wells puts English as by far the dominant language, with some hybrid Hindi-English, Oriental-English, Spanish-English, African-English. As of now, that’s not so true of spoken language, but is completely true of language on the web. So I’m going to give Wells a 100% correct on that one.

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Date: 21/02/2021 09:45:14
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1699783
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

mollwollfumble said:


H.G.Wells “The sleeper wakes” is a prediction for the year 2100, published in 1899. So looking 200 years into the future from the end of the Victorian era.

Lots to debate there, but picking a random point:

mollwollfumble said:


Another incorrect prediction was that hypnotherapy would replace antibiotics and other prescription medicine.

Seems to me that he did pretty well to predict antibiotics at all in 1898.

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Date: 21/02/2021 09:52:15
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1699784
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

I’m not sure what the minimum height for a “skyscraper” is, but if we said 100 m, the Manhattan Life Insurance Building qualifies, started in 1894.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_world’s_tallest_buildings

I think by 1898 prediction of lots of very tall buildings in city centres would have been a pretty safe bet.

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Date: 21/02/2021 10:13:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1699785
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:


H.G.Wells “The sleeper wakes” is a prediction for the year 2100, published in 1899. So looking 200 years into the future from the end of the Victorian era.

Lots to debate there, but picking a random point:

mollwollfumble said:


Another incorrect prediction was that hypnotherapy would replace antibiotics and other prescription medicine.

Seems to me that he did pretty well to predict antibiotics at all in 1898.

wtf do yous mean, look around you, or just look at the USSA and tell us again that hypnotherapy hasn’t already replaced antibiotics and other prescription medicine

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Date: 21/02/2021 13:19:05
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1699912
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

The Rev Dodgson said:


I’m not sure what the minimum height for a “skyscraper” is, but if we said 100 m, the Manhattan Life Insurance Building qualifies, started in 1894.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_world’s_tallest_buildings

I think by 1898 prediction of lots of very tall buildings in city centres would have been a pretty safe bet.

In London?

I don’t count anything as a “skyscraper” before the Flatiron building of 1902. Even though shorter than the Manhattan Life Insurance Building because of the tower on top of the MLIB, the Flatiron building is the first with a steel frame, has vertical faces top to bottom, has 22 storeys. The MLIB has fewer floors (16?).

Wells’s skyscrapers were also clad in glass, an extremely unlikely prediction back in 1898. Has pedestrian walkways between them as well as cable-hung seats for travelling across.

So far we’re nowhere near the density of tall buildings there that Wells has in his book. So many that the buildings of Westminster and St Pauls can’t be seen from the air? Completely covering over the Thames so that it can no longer be seen?

Central London didn’t get any significant skyscrapers until the gherkin in 2003, more than 100 years after Wells wrote “the sleeper wakes”.

Wells himself even thought 25 years after publication that his prediction of skyscrapers was wrong. He also thought 25 years later that his prediction of an immoral capitalist was wrong. His evil capitalist Ostrog is no more immoral than the average politician these days.

Other deliberatly provocative predictions are the abandonment of the decimal system for a system of numbers based on 12. And the lowest ranked worst occupation in the world (worse than refinery worker) is jeweller. Compare that with barber being the highest ranked occupation. He still retains barges in the salt water underground Thames as a major transport of feldspar cargo.

But, more reasonably, no fresh water from the Thames ever reaches the sea, all the fresh water is used up before then – that could still happen.

I’m learning that Wells has a way of juxtaposing the realistic predictions with the provocative. For realism we have cars travelling on large pneumatic rubber tyres on very wide roads. For provocation we have a car carrying horizontal rods from which hang sheep carcases dripping blood on the road.

This tension between the likely and the provocative, between the social and the technical, between the drawn out and compressed, keeps us interested and makes it a good read.

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Date: 21/02/2021 13:24:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1699916
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

mollwollfumble said:

Central London didn’t get any significant skyscrapers until the gherkin in 2003, more than 100 years after Wells wrote “the sleeper wakes”.

You’re out by about 25 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_42

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Date: 21/02/2021 13:28:54
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1699917
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

mollwollfumble said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m not sure what the minimum height for a “skyscraper” is, but if we said 100 m, the Manhattan Life Insurance Building qualifies, started in 1894.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_world’s_tallest_buildings

I think by 1898 prediction of lots of very tall buildings in city centres would have been a pretty safe bet.

In London?

I don’t count anything as a “skyscraper” before the Flatiron building of 1902. Even though shorter than the Manhattan Life Insurance Building because of the tower on top of the MLIB, the Flatiron building is the first with a steel frame, has vertical faces top to bottom, has 22 storeys. The MLIB has fewer floors (16?).

Wells’s skyscrapers were also clad in glass, an extremely unlikely prediction back in 1898. Has pedestrian walkways between them as well as cable-hung seats for travelling across.

So far we’re nowhere near the density of tall buildings there that Wells has in his book. So many that the buildings of Westminster and St Pauls can’t be seen from the air? Completely covering over the Thames so that it can no longer be seen?

Central London didn’t get any significant skyscrapers until the gherkin in 2003, more than 100 years after Wells wrote “the sleeper wakes”.

Wells himself even thought 25 years after publication that his prediction of skyscrapers was wrong. He also thought 25 years later that his prediction of an immoral capitalist was wrong. His evil capitalist Ostrog is no more immoral than the average politician these days.

Other deliberatly provocative predictions are the abandonment of the decimal system for a system of numbers based on 12. And the lowest ranked worst occupation in the world (worse than refinery worker) is jeweller. Compare that with barber being the highest ranked occupation. He still retains barges in the salt water underground Thames as a major transport of feldspar cargo.

But, more reasonably, no fresh water from the Thames ever reaches the sea, all the fresh water is used up before then – that could still happen.

I’m learning that Wells has a way of juxtaposing the realistic predictions with the provocative. For realism we have cars travelling on large pneumatic rubber tyres on very wide roads. For provocation we have a car carrying horizontal rods from which hang sheep carcases dripping blood on the road.

This tension between the likely and the provocative, between the social and the technical, between the drawn out and compressed, keeps us interested and makes it a good read.

TATE on tall buildings in London:

The NatWest Tower (now called Tower 42) was completed in 1980, which at 183 metres (600 ft) and 42 storeys, was considered the first “skyscraper” in the City of London. Its height was controversial, being contrary to the previous height restrictions, it was the tallest building in the United Kingdom at the time and also the tallest cantilever building in the world. Following an over ten-year gap, One Canada Square was completed in 1991 at 235 metres (771 ft) and formed the centrepiece of the Canary Wharf development, which itself is part of the Isle of Dogs and can be considered the east-side of Central London. At 50 storeys, it became the tallest building in the United Kingdom.

Even in my schooldays we were told that London was not suitable for tall buildings because of the clay foundations, but there were tall buildings well before the Shard.

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Date: 21/02/2021 13:29:20
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1699918
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

Witty Rejoinder said:


mollwollfumble said:

Central London didn’t get any significant skyscrapers until the gherkin in 2003, more than 100 years after Wells wrote “the sleeper wakes”.

You’re out by about 25 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_42

Hah.

Beat me.

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Date: 21/02/2021 13:39:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1699919
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

so in summary many of the predictions not only were correct but rocked up early

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Date: 21/02/2021 13:46:59
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1699933
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

Witty Rejoinder said:


mollwollfumble said:

Central London didn’t get any significant skyscrapers until the gherkin in 2003, more than 100 years after Wells wrote “the sleeper wakes”.

You’re out by about 25 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_42

I think it’s best to let the Chaps in the City to decide these sort of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgUemV4brDU

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Date: 21/02/2021 14:15:36
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1699943
Subject: re: H.G.Wells "The sleeper wakes"

SCIENCE said:


so in summary many of the predictions not only were correct but rocked up early

Thanks “SCIENCE”, yes.

By combining “likely” and “unlikely” predictions in about equal quantities, some of those “unlikely” predictions come true.

It’s really ballsy predicting so far ahead in time. It isn’t even yet certain that capitalism will be triumphant 79 years from now. We still have sevaral world wars, revolutions and economic collapses between now and then.

Oops, Alexa/Echo should read “recognisable as Google Home”.

Hair styles for men included paired plaits, pigtails, frizzy straight cut masses.

He predicted a CNC machine for making clothes to measure in two minutes.

I must look up what Wells thinks clothing will look like in the year 2100. And compare it with what clothing looked like in 1898. Predicted clothing for 2100 is like the following two images. “Dignity and drooping folds” in 2100 instead of the 1898 fashion of “buttoned perils and ruthless exaggeration”.

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