a wonderful thing really, a miracle some might say, the acts resulting in conception, then gestation, through to birth, what grander introduction to democracy could there be

mum and dad make decisions in preparation for offspring (or another child), if the enterprise is well organized this probably starts before conception, mum and dad have conversations about stuff, agree on stuff, make decisions to do with resources variously, to get the job done, and wisely hopefully because it involves a big investment, perhaps the biggest investment couples ever make. There are of course non-couples that have and raise offspring also

but whatever, the democratic miracle happens with conception, after some moment of peak democracy in the hours or days before

possible names for the offspring comes up at some stage, there’s democracy about that also, mum and dad have conversations about what the new life might be called, and they decide among themselves, arrive at a name, so that they can call the new life from a distance and the creature will turn and look, and anyone else can call the name

there’s democracy in the womb, mum and fetus sharing the nutrients, and dad doing his bit to make sure mum is well nourished, well looked after, there are conversations, decisions, and resources allocated or directed into whatever

birth seems to have democracy about it also, people there to help it all happen, people sharing ideas, decisions are made and resources put into this and that, and new life is born and gets to experience breathing the free air people all share

following that nine months or so of democracy the new life starts its journey in a world that is full of democracy, it’s everywhere, the structure of all organic life on the planet functions on it, most of nature does, it’s a magical thing, and further most of the physics of the world is democratic

most of life on earth is involved in making sure it has a fair say, even an equal say, so everything is balanced, and further i’d guess the inanimate physics is also, gravity is probably communicating with mass, or objects with mass are communicating with each other regard what is a fair attraction, who’s doing most of the work, that sort of thing

possibly the entire universe functions on some type of democracy, yet to be revealed

of course i’m being obviously absurd

my question though is of the possibility of a hyper-politicized world, that peoples mental constructions of the world, if the force of those constructions inclined distortions that amounted to something similarly absurd, that passed as normal

a view of the world originated from notions of democracy, if you will

i’d expect most of life, perhaps none of life came into existence or evolved from democracy, that whatever exists today couldn’t be mainly attributed to democracy, any processes like that, not by any stretch even of the new life born today

the biology of the world isn’t democratic, nor is the physics of the universe

which brings me to the possibility that humans (individuals, groups, whatever populations) can only realistically be marginally democratic

and that has me considering the possibility there must be some very powerful shared ideas, a Lie even, to make democracy seem bigger than it really is, like it was natural, a dominant force of nature on earth, made pervasive by good thoughts, right thoughts, correct thoughts

so maybe hyper-politicization is the beginning of the end, the end of nature, a time when civilization implodes into a socially constructed reality, and alienates some truths about the world to make that work

I more started the thread mentioning the beginnings of life, then perhaps I was wandering into the middle part of life, most people of course can’t really know for sure when they’re in the middle of their life, other people might though when they observe you reached the end and moved on, and the democracy continues

seems end to end democracy, the entire universe appears to function on the stuff

so here I ask, could an accurate representation of the world be built on the ideas of democracy, from elevated ideas about democracy

I think not, it’s the basis of a potential mass illusion, and possibly worse

thanks, nice question

however we challenge the idea that the development is founded in representation and rather that it follows a defined plan

SCIENCE said:

thanks, nice question

however we challenge the idea that the development is founded in representation and rather that it follows a defined plan

:) waits…

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

thanks, nice question

however we challenge the idea that the development is founded in representation and rather that it follows a defined plan

:) waits…

Well yes that’s correct in that developmental period all you really do is provide nutrients and safety and keep the heat off at around 310 K. Much easier than afterwards, or so we hear.

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

OK we apologise to you all for lowering this thread to the level that wookiemeister has brought the balloons to the party.

SCIENCE said:

OK we apologise to you all for lowering this thread to the level that wookiemeister has brought the balloons to the party.

noted.

wookiemeister said:

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

I’ll agree with very little of that, apart from the “rule by idiot” bit.

Going back even as far as the origins of Democracy at the time of Democritus, voting was always and only limited to those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society. As hard as that is to accept on moral gounds, it has always been a truism.

You also know, obviously, that parliamentary democracy is not a democracy at all, it’s a shouting match. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has as much right to call itself democratic as Australia does.

> possibly the entire universe functions on some type of democracy, yet to be revealed
> of course i’m being obviously absurd

Of course, you’re being obviously absurd.

> my question though is of the possibility of a hyper-politicized world, that peoples mental constructions of the world, if the force of those constructions inclined distortions that amounted to something similarly absurd, that passed as normal A view of the world originated from notions of democracy, if you will.

Try the Andromeda galaxy.

> i’d expect most of life, perhaps none of life came into existence or evolved from democracy, that whatever exists today couldn’t be mainly attributed to democracy, any processes like that, not by any stretch even of the new life born today

I can’t help wondering about bacteria. ¿Could bacteria be said to be borderline democratic, in that no individual bacteria has a significant advantage over any other. They cooperate to produce a macroscopic slime. ¿Or the same for sponges, individual cells working toigether to produce a venus flower basket.

> which brings me to the possibility that humans (individuals, groups, whatever populations) can only realistically be marginally democratic

Just because something has never happened, doesn’t mean that it can’t happen. Or that it’s desirable.

Rather than any notions of “democracy”, how about a government with the most competent people running it. I know this is a totally foreign notion to Australia, and most of the rest of the world, but it seems to me to be the one goal to strive for.

mollwollfumble said:

voting was always and only limited to those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society

how about a government with the most competent people running it. I know this is a totally foreign notion to Australia, and most of the rest of the world, but it seems to me to be the one goal to strive for.

paid contribution to The Economy Must Grow, or actually economically valuable output that is nevertheless rarely fairly remunerated if at all

but yes, STEMocracy, always

mollwollfumble said:

wookiemeister said:

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

I’ll agree with very little of that, apart from the “rule by idiot” bit.

Going back even as far as the origins of Democracy at the time of Democritus, voting was always and only limited to those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society. As hard as that is to accept on moral gounds, it has always been a truism.

You also know, obviously, that parliamentary democracy is not a democracy at all, it’s a shouting match. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has as much right to call itself democratic as Australia does.

> possibly the entire universe functions on some type of democracy, yet to be revealed
> of course i’m being obviously absurd

Of course, you’re being obviously absurd.

> my question though is of the possibility of a hyper-politicized world, that peoples mental constructions of the world, if the force of those constructions inclined distortions that amounted to something similarly absurd, that passed as normal A view of the world originated from notions of democracy, if you will.

Try the Andromeda galaxy.

> i’d expect most of life, perhaps none of life came into existence or evolved from democracy, that whatever exists today couldn’t be mainly attributed to democracy, any processes like that, not by any stretch even of the new life born today

I can’t help wondering about bacteria. ¿Could bacteria be said to be borderline democratic, in that no individual bacteria has a significant advantage over any other. They cooperate to produce a macroscopic slime. ¿Or the same for sponges, individual cells working toigether to produce a venus flower basket.

> which brings me to the possibility that humans (individuals, groups, whatever populations) can only realistically be marginally democratic

Just because something has never happened, doesn’t mean that it can’t happen. Or that it’s desirable.

Rather than any notions of “democracy”, how about a government with the most competent people running it. I know this is a totally foreign notion to Australia, and most of the rest of the world, but it seems to me to be the one goal to strive for.

I’ll agree with very little of that, especially the “rule by idiot” bit.

The whole point of democracy is not to achieve optimum outcomes all the time, it is so that when a sufficient proportion of the population are sufficiently pissed off, they can change the government without a violent revolution.

On that basis, “those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society” are the only ones who it could be argued should not have a vote, since they already have some effective means of influencing government behaviour.

wookiemeister said:

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

When’s the Wookie Party campaign launch?

Witty Rejoinder said:

When’s the Wookie Party campaign launch?

it’ll be rule by the idiot

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

When’s the Wookie Party campaign launch?

it’ll be rule by the idiot

He’ll never get voted in.

But that’s what I said about Trump.

If you want to know how parliamentary democracy works …
read the script of “Yes Minister”.

The difference between a vote and a placebo is …
… very little.

If you have an “opposition”, you don’t need a “senate”.
If you have a “senate”, you don’t need an “opposition”.

> On that basis, “those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society” are the only ones who it could be argued should not have a vote, since they already have some effective means of influencing government behaviour.

Uh uh,

The only people who have some effective means of influencing government behaviour are those who shout loudest.

Those are the people who should be denied a vote.

mollwollfumble said:

> On that basis, “those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society” are the only ones who it could be argued should not have a vote, since they already have some effective means of influencing government behaviour.

Uh uh,

The only people who have some effective means of influencing government behaviour are those who shout loudest.

Those are the people who should be denied a vote.

Voting chooses government but bribes, wealth and power are what makes most of the decisions

mollwollfumble said:

> On that basis, “those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society” are the only ones who it could be argued should not have a vote, since they already have some effective means of influencing government behaviour.

Uh uh,

The only people who have some effective means of influencing government behaviour are those who shout loudest.

Those are the people who should be denied a vote.

Do you really think that?

Shouting load has nothing to do with it.

A quiet word in their ear is much more effective.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

> On that basis, “those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society” are the only ones who it could be argued should not have a vote, since they already have some effective means of influencing government behaviour.

Uh uh,

The only people who have some effective means of influencing government behaviour are those who shout loudest.

Those are the people who should be denied a vote.

Do you really think that?

Shouting load has nothing to do with it.

A quiet word in their ear is much more effective.

when combined with a valuable ECONOMIC contribution sleighted from sleeve to sleeve

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

> On that basis, “those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society” are the only ones who it could be argued should not have a vote, since they already have some effective means of influencing government behaviour.

Uh uh,

The only people who have some effective means of influencing government behaviour are those who shout loudest.

Those are the people who should be denied a vote.

Do you really think that?

Shouting load has nothing to do with it.

A quiet word in their ear is much more effective.

Discussing politics with Moll is like playing chess with a pigeon.

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

> On that basis, “those who make a valuable ECONOMIC contribution to society” are the only ones who it could be argued should not have a vote, since they already have some effective means of influencing government behaviour.

Uh uh,

The only people who have some effective means of influencing government behaviour are those who shout loudest.

Those are the people who should be denied a vote.

Do you really think that?

Shouting load has nothing to do with it.

A quiet word in their ear is much more effective.

Discussing politics with Moll is like playing chess with a pigeon.

which piece is it replacing

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Do you really think that?

Shouting load has nothing to do with it.

A quiet word in their ear is much more effective.

Discussing politics with Moll is like playing chess with a pigeon.

which piece is it replacing

Shouting has everything to do with it.

“He who shouts loudest has the floor.” Swipple’s Rule of Order.
Public demonstrations are just shouting as load as you can.
Headlines in newspapers are just shouting.

On top of that. Votes for women, much touted worldwide as a triumph for democracy, had no influence of the balance of power at either the federal or state level in Australia. Or to put it succinctly, voting is as mostly a placebo.

> Discussing politics with Moll is like playing chess with a pigeon.

Thank you. The rules of chess are arbitrary, archaic and useless.
I much prefer Go.

mollwollfumble said:

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Discussing politics with Moll is like playing chess with a pigeon.

which piece is it replacing

Shouting has everything to do with it.

“He who shouts loudest has the floor.” Swipple’s Rule of Order.
Public demonstrations are just shouting as load as you can.
Headlines in newspapers are just shouting.

On top of that. Votes for women, much touted worldwide as a triumph for democracy, had no influence of the balance of power at either the federal or state level in Australia. Or to put it succinctly, voting is as mostly a placebo.

> Discussing politics with Moll is like playing chess with a pigeon.

Thank you. The rules of chess are arbitrary, archaic and useless.
I much prefer Go.

Playing Go with a regurgitating penguin then.

wookiemeister said:

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

The voting age should be the same as the taxing age, and the military age.

Postal votes are vital for those who are in the military, emergency services, etc.

That last point would ensure that anyone who was likely to vote for the opposition would be imprisoned for spurious reasons.

https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/496282/can-prisoners-vote

Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

The voting age should be the same as the taxing age, and the military age.

Postal votes are vital for those who are in the military, emergency services, etc.

That last point would ensure that anyone who was likely to vote for the opposition would be imprisoned for spurious reasons.

I’m pretty sure that disenfranchisement does occur for long term prisoners…

Arts said:

Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

Democracy doesn’t work – it’s rule by the idiot

You can cut down on the excesses of stupidity in government by

Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.

Getting rid of postal votes, you must turn up in person at dedicated post offices to verify eligibility. Anyone bed ridden can be visited.

Getting rid of compulsory voting – this keeps people who don’t care away from important stuff , let the adults vote.

Raise the voting age to 25 , it keeps people with no life experience out of parliament and ensures the voter has enough life experience to vote.

If you are in prison – you don’t get to vote. This stops harnessing the criminal voting block by the Labor party. If you are a criminal will you vote liberal or Labor? Right , the party soft on crime.

The voting age should be the same as the taxing age, and the military age.

Postal votes are vital for those who are in the military, emergency services, etc.

That last point would ensure that anyone who was likely to vote for the opposition would be imprisoned for spurious reasons.

I’m pretty sure that disenfranchisement does occur for long term prisoners…

apparently the ACT and SA don’t have disenfranchisement laws…

however saying that someone shouldn’t be allowed to vote because they won’t vote for the people who they don’t agree with is weird..

“Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.”

mr arts has neither a D/L POA card nor a passport…

Arts said:

“Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.”

mr arts has neither a D/L POA card nor a passport…

Surely this could be expanded to any sort of government issued card. e.g pension card, healthcare card, medicare card, high work licences etc.

party_pants said:

Arts said:

“Having electoral security , anyone voting MUST show a passport or driving licence. If you can’t be bothered to get either ( driving licenses include proof of age card) you probably shouldn’t be voting – you are too lazy or stupid to be deciding how things are run.”

mr arts has neither a D/L POA card nor a passport…

Surely this could be expanded to any sort of government issued card. e.g pension card, healthcare card, medicare card, high work licences etc.

Why not some sort of voluntary multi card that brings in other cards, licences, a kind of variable identity card.

Then shrink it so it can go around the wrist or worn on a neck chain.

People with medical problems could place that information on it too, mental health, diabetic, etc any relevant information for ambulance officers hospitals etc

• Then shrink it so it can go around the wrist or worn on a neck chain.

The other day I saw someone pay for their shopping using a ring on their finger. Technology, hey…

I feel like saying multi pass now.

furious said:

• Then shrink it so it can go around the wrist or worn on a neck chain.

The other day I saw someone pay for their shopping using a ring on their finger. Technology, hey…

That’s a tap and go I’d like.

:)

Tau.Neutrino said:

I feel like saying multi pass now.

furious said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I feel like saying multi pass now.

:)

Tau.Neutrino said:

furious said:

• Then shrink it so it can go around the wrist or worn on a neck chain.

The other day I saw someone pay for their shopping using a ring on their finger. Technology, hey…

That’s a tap and go I’d like.

:)

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/18/man-who-implanted-opal-travel-card-chip-has-conviction-overturned

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

When’s the Wookie Party campaign launch?

it’ll be rule by the idiot

The word idiot has its roots in ancient Greece supposedly, an idiot was a “private citizen” that simply existed but took no part in the decisions/ debate of the state – people that didn’t care; this changed semantically to be any foolish person.

When idiots are forced to vote in Australia they typically don’t put any thought when voting , indeed I watched a drunk bogan with a shaved head and naked save for a shaved head, shorts and worn thongs walk in to vote. He was merry as he chatted up the chicks handing out leaflets, he still had a few teeth in his mouth and the only other thing out of place was the gash to the back of his head leaking blood that run downwards across his shoulder and back.

Patiently coaching him to vote for a particular candidate for 5 minutes he proudly returned to inform them of his vote – for the “wrong” candidate.

I saw Mr grey first vote at that same place I think, then saw him in two other locations – then I suddenly realised electoral fraud was REAL , that’s what actual first hand experience gives you.

Its truly amazing what crawls out of the woodwork on voting day.

wookiemeister said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

When’s the Wookie Party campaign launch?

it’ll be rule by the idiot

The word idiot has its roots in ancient Greece supposedly, an idiot was a “private citizen” that simply existed but took no part in the decisions/ debate of the state – people that didn’t care; this changed semantically to be any foolish person.

When idiots are forced to vote in Australia they typically don’t put any thought when voting , indeed I watched a drunk bogan with a shaved head and naked save for a shaved head, shorts and worn thongs walk in to vote. He was merry as he chatted up the chicks handing out leaflets, he still had a few teeth in his mouth and the only other thing out of place was the gash to the back of his head leaking blood that run downwards across his shoulder and back.

Patiently coaching him to vote for a particular candidate for 5 minutes he proudly returned to inform them of his vote – for the “wrong” candidate.

I saw Mr grey first vote at that same place I think, then saw him in two other locations – then I suddenly realised electoral fraud was REAL , that’s what actual first hand experience gives you.

Its truly amazing what crawls out of the woodwork on voting day.

WTF were you doing in two other poling booths?

Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

ChrispenEvan said:

it’ll be rule by the idiot

The word idiot has its roots in ancient Greece supposedly, an idiot was a “private citizen” that simply existed but took no part in the decisions/ debate of the state – people that didn’t care; this changed semantically to be any foolish person.

When idiots are forced to vote in Australia they typically don’t put any thought when voting , indeed I watched a drunk bogan with a shaved head and naked save for a shaved head, shorts and worn thongs walk in to vote. He was merry as he chatted up the chicks handing out leaflets, he still had a few teeth in his mouth and the only other thing out of place was the gash to the back of his head leaking blood that run downwards across his shoulder and back.

Patiently coaching him to vote for a particular candidate for 5 minutes he proudly returned to inform them of his vote – for the “wrong” candidate.

I saw Mr grey first vote at that same place I think, then saw him in two other locations – then I suddenly realised electoral fraud was REAL , that’s what actual first hand experience gives you.

Its truly amazing what crawls out of the woodwork on voting day.

WTF were you doing in two other poling booths?

I like to sketch people under pressure