I have an ulcer in my mouth, was quite sore and wouldn’t heal until I got antibiotics.

It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control and other treatments would infection be as deadly as it once was.

Our bodies still don’t seem able to heal ourselves from many infections so I’m thinking we might be able to minimise infections (perhaps not) but the actual infection once it took hold would most likely end up making us really ill or dead as it always has.

If only the strong survived would we be a more robust species

>It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…

I’m assuming you mean, “if we no longer had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…”

Bubblecar said:

>It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…

I’m assuming you mean, “if we no longer had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…”

No we still had that knowledge so now about wound care, how they spread and so on but didn’t have antibiotics, etc to bring the infection under control

Would many of us have died from an infection that by modern standards is easy to treat with medicine

Aye, but we were happy.

Peak Warming Man said:

Aye, but we were happy.

Only the good die young.

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

>It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…

I’m assuming you mean, “if we no longer had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…”

No we still had that knowledge so now about wound care, how they spread and so on but didn’t have antibiotics, etc to bring the infection under control

Would many of us have died from an infection that by modern standards is easy to treat with medicine

Ah.

Well I would presumably have died a couple years ago because as well as the operation to remove that highly infected abscess, I also needed several days of drip-feed antibiotics.

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

>It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…

I’m assuming you mean, “if we no longer had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…”

No we still had that knowledge so now about wound care, how they spread and so on but didn’t have antibiotics, etc to bring the infection under control

Would many of us have died from an infection that by modern standards is easy to treat with medicine

Ah.

Well I would presumably have died a couple years ago because as well as the operation to remove that highly infected abscess, I also needed several days of drip-feed antibiotics.

Indeed sirrah.

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

>It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…

I’m assuming you mean, “if we no longer had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…”

No we still had that knowledge so now about wound care, how they spread and so on but didn’t have antibiotics, etc to bring the infection under control

Would many of us have died from an infection that by modern standards is easy to treat with medicine

Ah.

Well I would presumably have died a couple years ago because as well as the operation to remove that highly infected abscess, I also needed several days of drip-feed antibiotics.

That’s an example of what I mean, they could do their best to minimise infections but realistically you’d get it anyway and not much would help without those antibiotics/

Cymek said:

Bubblecar said:

>It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…

I’m assuming you mean, “if we no longer had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control…”

No we still had that knowledge so now about wound care, how they spread and so on but didn’t have antibiotics, etc to bring the infection under control

Would many of us have died from an infection that by modern standards is easy to treat with medicine

In 1941, the Oxford team treated a policeman, Albert Alexander, with a severe face infection; his condition improved, but then supplies of penicillin ran out and he died. Subsequently, several other patients were treated successfully. In December 1942, survivors of the Cocoanut Grove fire in Boston were the first burn patients to be successfully treated with penicillin.

The most important clinical test was in August 1942 when Fleming cured Harry Lambert of fatal infection of the nervous system (streptococcal meningitis). Lambert was a work associate of Robert, Fleming’s brother, who had requested Fleming for medical treatment. Fleming asked Florey for the purified penicillin sample, which Fleming immediately used to inject into Lambert’s spinal canal. Lambert showed signs of improvement the very next day, and completely recovered within a week. Fleming reported his clinical trial in The Lancet in 1943. It was upon this medical evidence that the British War Cabinet set up the Penicillin Committee on 5 April 1943. The committee consisted of Cecil Weir, Director General of Equipment, as Chairman, Fleming, Florey, Sir Percival Hartley, Allison and representatives from pharmaceutical companies as members. This led to mass production of penicillin by the next year. Wiki

I remember reading that the Russians were working on a non-penicillin type of antibiotic prior to the discovery of penicillin, but I can’t remember where I read it.

It makes you wonder what the world would be like if they weren’t discovered, population size for example how much smaller would it be

Cymek said:

It makes you wonder what the world would be like if they weren’t discovered, population size for example how much smaller would it be

Would have mattered which century the bow and arrow were invented?

Cymek said:

It makes you wonder what the world would be like if they weren’t discovered, population size for example how much smaller would it be

I’ve read that current world population would be about one quarter of what it is if penicillin had never been discovered and put in to use.

esselte said:

Cymek said:

It makes you wonder what the world would be like if they weren’t discovered, population size for example how much smaller would it be

I’ve read that current world population would be about one quarter of what it is if penicillin had never been discovered and put in to use.

So actually the real cause of climate change is penicillin.

esselte said:

Cymek said:

It makes you wonder what the world would be like if they weren’t discovered, population size for example how much smaller would it be

I’ve read that current world population would be about one quarter of what it is if penicillin had never been discovered and put in to use.

It’s quite a monumental discover/invention probably one of the most important in history

Cymek said:

esselte said:

Cymek said:

It makes you wonder what the world would be like if they weren’t discovered, population size for example how much smaller would it be

I’ve read that current world population would be about one quarter of what it is if penicillin had never been discovered and put in to use.

It’s quite a monumental discover/invention probably one of the most important in history

and yet we have overused it to the point where it has lost effectiveness.

btm said:

I remember reading that the Russians were working on a non-penicillin type of antibiotic prior to the discovery of penicillin, but I can’t remember where I read it.

Bacteriophages

you can flush your mouth with large amounts of salt in warm water, regular, get it right in around teeth, gums, so long as you spit it all out, no harm done

gargling with salt also is very effective, right to the back of the throat

lot of bugs don’t like that much salt, clears their food away also, creates a less hospitable environment for them

my dad was saved by penicillin when a kid I reckon, it had only just recently become available at the time, by memory, i’d need check that story to be sure, to be sure i’m not making it up, or that it was someone else in his family

transition said:

you can flush your mouth with large amounts of salt in warm water, regular, get it right in around teeth, gums, so long as you spit it all out, no harm done

gargling with salt also is very effective, right to the back of the throat

lot of bugs don’t like that much salt, clears their food away also, creates a less hospitable environment for them

herbalist would be offering their treatments and traditional medicine would be a go to at a guess

monkey skipper said:

transition said:

you can flush your mouth with large amounts of salt in warm water, regular, get it right in around teeth, gums, so long as you spit it all out, no harm done

gargling with salt also is very effective, right to the back of the throat

lot of bugs don’t like that much salt, clears their food away also, creates a less hospitable environment for them

herbalist would be offering their treatments and traditional medicine would be a go to at a guess

I reckon salt is better than listerine, and peroxide is a bit harsh

transition said:

monkey skipper said:

transition said:

you can flush your mouth with large amounts of salt in warm water, regular, get it right in around teeth, gums, so long as you spit it all out, no harm done

gargling with salt also is very effective, right to the back of the throat

lot of bugs don’t like that much salt, clears their food away also, creates a less hospitable environment for them

herbalist would be offering their treatments and traditional medicine would be a go to at a guess

I reckon salt is better than listerine, and peroxide is a bit harsh

Been using salt as a gargle and mouthwash for over 20 years during which I have not had a throat infection that lasted more than a couple of days and then only mildly. Used to have enlarge tonsils before I began, but these reduced considerably in size after a while. Strongly recommend.

transition said:

monkey skipper said:

transition said:

you can flush your mouth with large amounts of salt in warm water, regular, get it right in around teeth, gums, so long as you spit it all out, no harm done

gargling with salt also is very effective, right to the back of the throat

lot of bugs don’t like that much salt, clears their food away also, creates a less hospitable environment for them

herbalist would be offering their treatments and traditional medicine would be a go to at a guess

I reckon salt is better than listerine, and peroxide is a bit harsh

they used salt in the past as well , for example, salt put on a man’s back after receiving lashes for example.

monkey skipper said:

transition said:

monkey skipper said:

herbalist would be offering their treatments and traditional medicine would be a go to at a guess

I reckon salt is better than listerine, and peroxide is a bit harsh

they used salt in the past as well , for example, salt put on a man’s back after receiving lashes for example.

and for dead tissue the use of maggots, which sounds gross but still it made a resurgence for ulcer type wounds that aren’t responding to anti-biotics.

leeches to stops bloodclotting to save a limb.

monkey skipper said:

transition said:

monkey skipper said:

herbalist would be offering their treatments and traditional medicine would be a go to at a guess

I reckon salt is better than listerine, and peroxide is a bit harsh

they used salt in the past as well , for example, salt put on a man’s back after receiving lashes for example.

Very thoughtful of them.

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

transition said:

I reckon salt is better than listerine, and peroxide is a bit harsh

they used salt in the past as well , for example, salt put on a man’s back after receiving lashes for example.

Very thoughtful of them.

I think it was available when there was no refrigeration and salt was used to preserve meats on board ships for example.

monkey skipper said:

monkey skipper said:

transition said:

I reckon salt is better than listerine, and peroxide is a bit harsh

they used salt in the past as well , for example, salt put on a man’s back after receiving lashes for example.

and for dead tissue the use of maggots, which sounds gross but still it made a resurgence for ulcer type wounds that aren’t responding to anti-biotics.

leeches to stops bloodclotting to save a limb.

cymek’s probably taking a couple of valium now

chuckle

transition said:

monkey skipper said:

monkey skipper said:

they used salt in the past as well , for example, salt put on a man’s back after receiving lashes for example.

and for dead tissue the use of maggots, which sounds gross but still it made a resurgence for ulcer type wounds that aren’t responding to anti-biotics.

leeches to stops bloodclotting to save a limb.

cymek’s probably taking a couple of valium now

chuckle

he might be but some doctors are using leeches and lab produced maggots as the maggots eat dead tissue but leave healthy tissue alone apparently.

If a person has severed a body part like a hand and he hand has been reconnected but the blood flow is an issue leeches have been used in some rare cases to keep the blood flow rather than blood clotting occurring and the reconnected body part dying irrc

Tea tree oil will handle all external infections

If I cut my hand skin at work , i will immediately wash the blood off, force the blood out if need be dry the hand/ skin and then ideally apply a tea tree gel used for fungal infection , a clear looking jelly. The blood will ease and as the gel dried it stems the blood. Shortly the blood stops, the wound dries and no infection will occur.

Outer, middle and inner ear infections can all be knocked out by a VERY dilute solution of tea tree oil , ONE drop to a cup or 600 ml coke bottle, drop the oil in, pour in water half way , then shake vigorously. Add more water to 2/3 , shake and apply into the ear.

Eye infections can be cleared up within seconds by colloidal silver ( don’t do this all the time)

Tonsillitis I don’t know, maybe applying tea tree around the throat

The tea tree absorbs through the skin to treat what’s beneath. If you use it for an inner ear infection it will infiltrate the brain, infiltrate the sinuses, eyeballs etc.

For an ulcer in your mouth you could dab some lemon oil on it perhaps ??

Cymek said:

I have an ulcer in my mouth, was quite sore and wouldn’t heal until I got antibiotics.

It got me thinking if we still had our modern knowledge of infection/infection control and other treatments would infection be as deadly as it once was.

Our bodies still don’t seem able to heal ourselves from many infections so I’m thinking we might be able to minimise infections (perhaps not) but the actual infection once it took hold would most likely end up making us really ill or dead as it always has.

If only the strong survived would we be a more robust species

> if we lost our modern knowledge of infection/infection control and other treatments would infection be as deadly as it once was.

It’s a good question. Deserves medical research. This could be done in a region that is too poor to have antibiotics. But that may give a false result because it may be different strain. For any new disease affecting an animal; such as a human, it tends to evolve towards maximising transmissibility at the expense of mortality. But it’s not clear to me how the use of antibiotics affects that.

transition said:

monkey skipper said:

monkey skipper said:

they used salt in the past as well , for example, salt put on a man’s back after receiving lashes for example.

and for dead tissue the use of maggots, which sounds gross but still it made a resurgence for ulcer type wounds that aren’t responding to anti-biotics.

leeches to stops bloodclotting to save a limb.

cymek’s probably taking a couple of valium now

chuckle

No I find that sort of stuff interesting, I wouldn’t have a problem with it being done to me if necessary

Back in the late 80’s i saw a doc about an infection from a small wound on my forearm.

The red path of the infection could be easily seen creeping up my arm.

The do wrote a scrip for some common antibiotics, and sat back and said, ‘y’know, fifty years back, all i could have done was kid you along, and make you as comfortable as i could while i watched you slowly die’.

That’s where we’d be without these things.

captain_spalding said:

Back in the late 80’s i saw a doc about an infection from a small wound on my forearm.

The red path of the infection could be easily seen creeping up my arm.

The do wrote a scrip for some common antibiotics, and sat back and said, ‘y’know, fifty years back, all i could have done was kid you along, and make you as comfortable as i could while i watched you slowly die’.

That’s where we’d be without these things.

The treatment I’m having was begun to be used 3 years before I started.
Prior to that the mortality rate was 70%.

captain_spalding said:

Back in the late 80’s i saw a doc about an infection from a small wound on my forearm.

The red path of the infection could be easily seen creeping up my arm.

The do wrote a scrip for some common antibiotics, and sat back and said, ‘y’know, fifty years back, all i could have done was kid you along, and make you as comfortable as i could while i watched you slowly die’.

That’s where we’d be without these things.

those were the good old days.

captain_spalding said:

Back in the late 80’s i saw a doc about an infection from a small wound on my forearm.

The red path of the infection could be easily seen creeping up my arm.

The do wrote a scrip for some common antibiotics, and sat back and said, ‘y’know, fifty years back, all i could have done was kid you along, and make you as comfortable as i could while i watched you slowly die’.

That’s where we’d be without these things.

That’s what I was wondering we have much better infection control and understanding of spreading of disease but infections still creep in, do we just slow them down and then use antibiotics to treat them and if we didn’t we die

Cymek said:

That’s what I was wondering we have much better infection control and understanding of spreading of disease but infections still creep in, do we just slow them down and then use antibiotics to treat them and if we didn’t we die

Infection prevention is the first strategy.

Curing infection comes later.

Not all infections are fatal, but there’s more than enough of them that are to make curing them really important.

Infections used to be the No. 1 cause of medical-related deaths.

Look up ‘Ignaz Semmelweis’.

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

That’s what I was wondering we have much better infection control and understanding of spreading of disease but infections still creep in, do we just slow them down and then use antibiotics to treat them and if we didn’t we die

Infection prevention is the first strategy.

Curing infection comes later.

Not all infections are fatal, but there’s more than enough of them that are to make curing them really important.

Infections used to be the No. 1 cause of medical-related deaths.

Look up ‘Ignaz Semmelweis’.

This.

Wash your hands. And wash them again. And don’t forget to wash them. The most important lesson humans have ever learned.

KJW said:

btm said:

I remember reading that the Russians were working on a non-penicillin type of antibiotic prior to the discovery of penicillin, but I can’t remember where I read it.

Bacteriophages

Yep. I first read it in Scientific American.

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

That’s what I was wondering we have much better infection control and understanding of spreading of disease but infections still creep in, do we just slow them down and then use antibiotics to treat them and if we didn’t we die

Infection prevention is the first strategy.

Curing infection comes later.

Not all infections are fatal, but there’s more than enough of them that are to make curing them really important.

Infections used to be the No. 1 cause of medical-related deaths.

Look up ‘Ignaz Semmelweis’.

This.

Wash your hands. And wash them again. And don’t forget to wash them. The most important lesson humans have ever learned.

In the clinics in the middle of nowhere you see posters in the clinics reminding people to wash their faces or they’ll go blind. Keep closing that gap , right ?