Believe it or not, we still use pagers (yes, those little beepy things with the dot-matrix displays from like the early 1980s) in the hospital where i work.

And they shit me to tears. They constantly break down, needing repairs, and a whole lot of palaver with replacements and issuing the things and recovering them when docs move on etc.

There has to be something better these days.

All the docs have their own mobile phones with them all the time.

Does anyone know of a mobile-phone based app that functions like a pager system?

Something that, maybe, you could assign a pager i.d. to someone’s phone, and use that to get a message to them.

The one advantage pagers have is that any of the admin staff anywhere in the hospital can page a doc, just using the four-digit pager number.

If we could do similar with mobile phones, without having to maintain a directory of docs’ private phone numbers, it’d be terrific.

BART

Pagers, at least in my experience, will also still receive a message where a mobile phone just won’t. They operate at a relatively low frequency compared to modern mobile phones and the situation is only going to get worse as 5G becomes ubiquitous.

Docs in the basement snogging with her boyfriend nurse, you better hope she has a pager rather than one of those covid releasing 5g phones.

sibeen said:

Pagers, at least in my experience, will also still receive a message where a mobile phone just won’t. They operate at a relatively low frequency compared to modern mobile phones and the situation is only going to get worse as 5G becomes ubiquitous.

Docs in the basement snogging with her boyfriend nurse, you better hope she has a pager rather than one of those covid releasing 5g phones.

We have dead spots for pagers, too.

Notably in some corners of Emergency and Medical Imaging.

BART also requires an annual fee for use.

If you look at the repair rates for pagers (hardware faults) they go through the roof after five years or so. Might be time to replace a few.

Well, if it has to be ‘pagers’ as such, can anyone recommend something better than these things that we use a lot of:

They really are a pain in the arse.

Rule 303 said:

If you look at the repair rates for pagers (hardware faults) they go through the roof after five years or so. Might be time to replace a few.

We had a shortage of them a few months ago. Not enough for a big new intake of registrars and interns.

There were none (i say again, ‘none’) to be had in Australia. We had to scavenge around overseas suppliers, and wait ages for them, and none of those was new, either.

So, if anyone can recommend a reliable device that’s readily available…

captain_spalding said:

Well, if it has to be ‘pagers’ as such, can anyone recommend something better than these things that we use a lot of:

They really are a pain in the arse.

We ran these for about five years, but went back to the old style.

captain_spalding said:

Well, if it has to be ‘pagers’ as such, can anyone recommend something better than these things that we use a lot of:

They really are a pain in the arse.

Old school.

sibeen said:

captain_spalding said:

Well, if it has to be ‘pagers’ as such, can anyone recommend something better than these things that we use a lot of:

They really are a pain in the arse.

Old school.

Well, at least there’s no batteries to go flat.

captain_spalding said:

Rule 303 said:

If you look at the repair rates for pagers (hardware faults) they go through the roof after five years or so. Might be time to replace a few.

We had a shortage of them a few months ago. Not enough for a big new intake of registrars and interns.

There were none (i say again, ‘none’) to be had in Australia. We had to scavenge around overseas suppliers, and wait ages for them, and none of those was new, either.

So, if anyone can recommend a reliable device that’s readily available…

You can’t get anyone to perform repairs?

captain_spalding said:

Believe it or not, we still use pagers (yes, those little beepy things with the dot-matrix displays from like the early 1980s) in the hospital where i work.

And they shit me to tears. They constantly break down, needing repairs, and a whole lot of palaver with replacements and issuing the things and recovering them when docs move on etc.

There has to be something better these days.

All the docs have their own mobile phones with them all the time.

Does anyone know of a mobile-phone based app that functions like a pager system?

Something that, maybe, you could assign a pager i.d. to someone’s phone, and use that to get a message to them.

The one advantage pagers have is that any of the admin staff anywhere in the hospital can page a doc, just using the four-digit pager number.

If we could do similar with mobile phones, without having to maintain a directory of docs’ private phone numbers, it’d be terrific.

There is a messaging app called “Telegram” – it is probably the only one that is secure and does not collect user data.

The app can be run on PC, iphone and Android, and users could be put into groups for broadcast messages.

captain_spalding said:

So, if anyone can recommend a reliable device that’s readily available…

Does replacing them fall under your administrative purview?

Additional benefits:
The mobile phone can use both 3G and wifi to get the messages.
The sender gets confirmation that the message has made it to the device, and has been read.
If the doctor can borrow another phone and log in as if they were using their own phone.

sibeen said:

captain_spalding said:

Rule 303 said:

If you look at the repair rates for pagers (hardware faults) they go through the roof after five years or so. Might be time to replace a few.

We had a shortage of them a few months ago. Not enough for a big new intake of registrars and interns.

There were none (i say again, ‘none’) to be had in Australia. We had to scavenge around overseas suppliers, and wait ages for them, and none of those was new, either.

So, if anyone can recommend a reliable device that’s readily available…

You can’t get anyone to perform repairs?

Yes, but it’s the rigmarole involved in shuttling pagers back and forth for repairs that irks me.

imagine if some kind of health-care facility like a “hospital” could have some kind of 20th-century technology like an “intranet” that when combined with technology from more than a decade ago like “wifi” and marginally newer devices called “smartphones” could actually communicate internally and potentially externally with its employees

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

So, if anyone can recommend a reliable device that’s readily available…

Does replacing them fall under your administrative purview?

I can make a recommendation.

Which will probably attract the ‘there’s no money’ response.

Because, while the law of management that says that 1/3 of management meetings are about how to get more money in next year’s budget, it also says that 1/3 of meetings are about finding ways to not spend this year’s budget.

The other 1/3 are about fixing things that aren’t broken.

SCIENCE said:

imagine if some kind of health-care facility like a “hospital” could have some kind of 20th-century technology like an “intranet” that when combined with technology from more than a decade ago like “wifi” and marginally newer devices called “smartphones” could actually communicate internally and potentially externally with its employees

You ain’t from ‘round these parts, are ya, boy?

Anyway, thank you all, i have some things to look at now, and some better grasp of the pluses and minuses.

Must say goodnight. Early start tomorrow.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

imagine if some kind of health-care facility like a “hospital” could have some kind of 20th-century technology like an “intranet” that when combined with technology from more than a decade ago like “wifi” and marginally newer devices called “smartphones” could actually communicate internally and potentially externally with its employees

You ain’t from ‘round these parts, are ya, boy?

We’ve been patients in hospital before and it beggars belief why they should rely on an archaic, unreliable and inefficient system of communication when there are better alternatives available*.

*: yes yes we know the Corruption Coalition want us to believe that building gas infrastructure to slip in an intermediate between coal burning and light collecting, is somehow a better option than building light collecting infrastructure to replace coal burning outright, so maybe we’ll buy a LPG vehicle

Unless the whole idea of the system is to have plausible deniability built into the interactions, it’s just some message on some pager somewhere, no record, no guarantee they received it, no easy way to exchange information (bidirectionally) within the system.

SCIENCE said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

imagine if some kind of health-care facility like a “hospital” could have some kind of 20th-century technology like an “intranet” that when combined with technology from more than a decade ago like “wifi” and marginally newer devices called “smartphones” could actually communicate internally and potentially externally with its employees

You ain’t from ‘round these parts, are ya, boy?

We’ve been patients in hospital before and it beggars belief why they should rely on an archaic, unreliable and inefficient system of communication when there are better alternatives available*.

*: yes yes we know the Corruption Coalition want us to believe that building gas infrastructure to slip in an intermediate between coal burning and light collecting, is somehow a better option than building light collecting infrastructure to replace coal burning outright, so maybe we’ll buy a LPG vehicle

Unless the whole idea of the system is to have plausible deniability built into the interactions, it’s just some message on some pager somewhere, no record, no guarantee they received it, no easy way to exchange information (bidirectionally) within the system.

Depending on the state , most hospitals are state funded.

Rule 303 said:

captain_spalding said:

Well, if it has to be ‘pagers’ as such, can anyone recommend something better than these things that we use a lot of:

They really are a pain in the arse.

We ran these for about five years, but went back to the old style.

Oh, that bottom one looks familiar…

Captain, the Ambulance dispatching service you might have been thinking of was run by a company called Intergraph – which was as wretched a hive of scum and villainy as anything around Mos Eisley. It was a gigantic political football for a few years, much like the fire services are right now.

Rule 303 said:

Captain, the Ambulance dispatching service you might have been thinking of was run by a company called Intergraph – which was as wretched a hive of scum and villainy as anything around Mos Eisley. It was a gigantic political football for a few years, much like the fire services are right now.

I remember that mob. I think I even did some work for them.

To give you another alternative for phones, the GoodSAM Alerter App is doing a good job for some very big agencies as asynchronous push-notification alerting system that seems to work on all (smartphone) hardware.

sibeen said:

Rule 303 said:

Captain, the Ambulance dispatching service you might have been thinking of was run by a company called Intergraph – which was as wretched a hive of scum and villainy as anything around Mos Eisley. It was a gigantic political football for a few years, much like the fire services are right now.

I remember that mob. I think I even did some work for them.

I don’t think there was anything wrong with their dispatching, but they had ‘business rules’ (that is, dispatching decision tables) that favoured stats over service and money over lives. They killed people.

I toured their replacement (ESTA) when it was a new baby and I have a vivid memory of seeing Intergraph logos in their dispatching software. Esta still fuck things up, but it’s only under pressure and confusion from the agencies they’re dispatching (I hope).

Popular Science 1950, describing one of the earliest pager systems.

I suppose one advantage of the pager over a mobile phone is that it’s going to stay charged for ages.

dv said:

Popular Science 1950, describing one of the earliest pager systems.

I suppose one advantage of the pager over a mobile phone is that it’s going to stay charged for ages.

Depends how often it goes off and whether you use the screen lighting. I’ve burnt a set of batteries in 8-10 days.

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Popular Science 1950, describing one of the earliest pager systems.

I suppose one advantage of the pager over a mobile phone is that it’s going to stay charged for ages.

Depends how often it goes off and whether you use the screen lighting. I’ve burnt a set of batteries in 8-10 days.

Okay but it’s still a longer charge than a typical smartphone.

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Popular Science 1950, describing one of the earliest pager systems.

I suppose one advantage of the pager over a mobile phone is that it’s going to stay charged for ages.

Depends how often it goes off and whether you use the screen lighting. I’ve burnt a set of batteries in 8-10 days.

Okay but it’s still a longer charge than a typical smartphone.

A typical smartphone wastes most of its power on maintaining ridiculous add ons.
If you turn all that shyte off, it lasts for ages.

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Popular Science 1950, describing one of the earliest pager systems.

I suppose one advantage of the pager over a mobile phone is that it’s going to stay charged for ages.

Depends how often it goes off and whether you use the screen lighting. I’ve burnt a set of batteries in 8-10 days.

Okay but it’s still a longer charge than a typical smartphone.

Sure. Also, doesn’t do anything else smartphones do.

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

Depends how often it goes off and whether you use the screen lighting. I’ve burnt a set of batteries in 8-10 days.

Okay but it’s still a longer charge than a typical smartphone.

Sure. Also, doesn’t do anything else smartphones do.

Right but my point is that for emergency response you want a device that is definitely going to be charged all day every day. I’m not advocating that people choose a pager for all their communications needs, I’m saying that the charge-time is one reason you might want people who are on-call to be bearing a pager as well as the smartphone that everyone is carrying as a matter of course.

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Okay but it’s still a longer charge than a typical smartphone.

Sure. Also, doesn’t do anything else smartphones do.

Right but my point is that for emergency response you want a device that is definitely going to be charged all day every day. I’m not advocating that people choose a pager for all their communications needs, I’m saying that the charge-time is one reason you might want people who are on-call to be bearing a pager as well as the smartphone that everyone is carrying as a matter of course.

There are portable charge devices that can recharge your phone on the run so to speak.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

Sure. Also, doesn’t do anything else smartphones do.

Right but my point is that for emergency response you want a device that is definitely going to be charged all day every day. I’m not advocating that people choose a pager for all their communications needs, I’m saying that the charge-time is one reason you might want people who are on-call to be bearing a pager as well as the smartphone that everyone is carrying as a matter of course.

There are portable charge devices that can recharge your phone on the run so to speak.

I used to keep my pager charger on the bedside table so it was charging overnight but was still available while I was sleeping.

also specifically within say a hospital where there is a modern power distribution system and supposedly staff don’t do unsafe over 24 hour shifts is it possible to keep devices charged

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

Sure. Also, doesn’t do anything else smartphones do.

Right but my point is that for emergency response you want a device that is definitely going to be charged all day every day. I’m not advocating that people choose a pager for all their communications needs, I’m saying that the charge-time is one reason you might want people who are on-call to be bearing a pager as well as the smartphone that everyone is carrying as a matter of course.

There are portable charge devices that can recharge your phone on the run so to speak.

Sure but the weight:time ratio ain’t great.
Perhaps another idea would be to replace the pager with a very small, simple phone that is like 98% battery by weight and uses the mobile phone networks, and has no features likely to encourage its non-essential use. Just text and voice.

Hey Captain, did you see the info about GoodSAM above? I would consider it worth checking out for your application.

Rule 303 said:

Hey Captain, did you see the info about GoodSAM above? I would consider it worth checking out for your application.

I did not, but i’ll try to find it. Thanks.

I’ve had a hunt around the internet, but there’s not a lot of info to be had about the goodSAM app.

captain_spalding said:

I’ve had a hunt around the internet, but there’s not a lot of info to be had about the goodSAM app.

https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/goodsam/

https://www.goodsamapp.org/

https://apps.apple.com/au/app/goodsam-responder/id815154202

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.goodsam.responder&hl=en_AU&gl=US

captain_spalding said:

I’ve had a hunt around the internet, but there’s not a lot of info to be had about the goodSAM app.

There’s two apps Alerter and Responder

General business info Here

Rule 303 said:

captain_spalding said:

I’ve had a hunt around the internet, but there’s not a lot of info to be had about the goodSAM app.

There’s two apps Alerter and Responder

General business info Here

Ta.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-08/canberra-aged-care-home-sees-improvements-from-it-trial/100120756

We all know I’m a Luddite, but I really am surprised aged care notes are still paper based. It seems to me this should have been computerized quite some time ago for large institutions at least. I’m also a bit puzzled about the statement in there that

“It works via an app on smartphones or tablet, with each of the 170 residents having a profile, and information such as medications, personal care (like showering), and meal requirements all recorded in real time.”

That isn’t really different from each resident having a paper file. It’s just a different recording method. It’s still got to be updated with the information etc, just like before, and the shift changeover people still need to catch up with what happened for each person before they came on shift.

perhaps but just speaking generally, not having been at this care facility, surely there are some things that electronic systems make far easier than paper does, for example searching for a word in a file, or making and distributing copies of files

and as time goes on, data processing and analysis, using OMG Artificial Intelligence

so

why not let the data processing be done by the efficient data processors

and the person-to-person caring be done by the people

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-08/canberra-aged-care-home-sees-improvements-from-it-trial/100120756

We all know I’m a Luddite, but I really am surprised aged care notes are still paper based. It seems to me this should have been computerized quite some time ago for large institutions at least. I’m also a bit puzzled about the statement in there that

“It works via an app on smartphones or tablet, with each of the 170 residents having a profile, and information such as medications, personal care (like showering), and meal requirements all recorded in real time.”

That isn’t really different from each resident having a paper file. It’s just a different recording method. It’s still got to be updated with the information etc, just like before, and the shift changeover people still need to catch up with what happened for each person before they came on shift.

perhaps but just speaking generally, not having been at this care facility, surely there are some things that electronic systems make far easier than paper does, for example searching for a word in a file, or making and distributing copies of files

and as time goes on, data processing and analysis, using OMG Artificial Intelligence

so

why not let the data processing be done by the efficient data processors

and the person-to-person caring be done by the people

The person doing the medicating and the showering etc still has to enter the information when they’ve done it. Analysis can be done by clerical people, but recording what is being done needs to be done by the person doing it. In the end, it is they who are held legally responsible for what has been done.

Early last year, there was this big push to bring in electronic patient records at our hospital.

It was like an Olympis bid: let nothing stand in its way, steamroller any who suggest that there may be some difficulties with implementation, spare no expense, the project will take what it needs for as long as it needs it.

It was the new, big, hip, sexy thing, and all the bigwigs wanted to be associated with the Great Leap Forward.

And i quite like the idea of e-records. Get rid of the vast storage areas needed for paper charts, which have to be kept for seven years after the last entry in them, and often run to two or three fat volumes.

But, then it was found that the hospital’s power supply would simply collapse under the load of all the extra devices needed for the project. Couldn’t bully their way past that.

So, for over twelve months, we’ve had an electrical engineering outfit in residence, beefing up the power system.

With a whole new hospital planned to be built elsewhere in town within 10 years, i reckon the power mob will be finally driving out the ‘exit’ ramp just as the demolition mob comes in the ‘entry’ ramp to knock the old place down.

captain_spalding said:

Early last year, there was this big push to bring in electronic patient records at our hospital.

It was like an Olympis bid: let nothing stand in its way, steamroller any who suggest that there may be some difficulties with implementation, spare no expense, the project will take what it needs for as long as it needs it.

It was the new, big, hip, sexy thing, and all the bigwigs wanted to be associated with the Great Leap Forward.

And i quite like the idea of e-records. Get rid of the vast storage areas needed for paper charts, which have to be kept for seven years after the last entry in them, and often run to two or three fat volumes.

But, then it was found that the hospital’s power supply would simply collapse under the load of all the extra devices needed for the project. Couldn’t bully their way past that.

So, for over twelve months, we’ve had an electrical engineering outfit in residence, beefing up the power system.

With a whole new hospital planned to be built elsewhere in town within 10 years, i reckon the power mob will be finally driving out the ‘exit’ ramp just as the demolition mob comes in the ‘entry’ ramp to knock the old place down.

Yes, and there is always the worry that in a disaster the electricity is very often the first thing to go. So the generator backups will need to be beefed up too. Because it’s healthcare…people die if you don’t know what to do for them.

captain_spalding said:

Early last year, there was this big push to bring in electronic patient records at our hospital.

It was like an Olympis bid: let nothing stand in its way, steamroller any who suggest that there may be some difficulties with implementation, spare no expense, the project will take what it needs for as long as it needs it.

It was the new, big, hip, sexy thing, and all the bigwigs wanted to be associated with the Great Leap Forward.

And i quite like the idea of e-records. Get rid of the vast storage areas needed for paper charts, which have to be kept for seven years after the last entry in them, and often run to two or three fat volumes.

But, then it was found that the hospital’s power supply would simply collapse under the load of all the extra devices needed for the project. Couldn’t bully their way past that.

So, for over twelve months, we’ve had an electrical engineering outfit in residence, beefing up the power system.

With a whole new hospital planned to be built elsewhere in town within 10 years, i reckon the power mob will be finally driving out the ‘exit’ ramp just as the demolition mob comes in the ‘entry’ ramp to knock the old place down.

scratches head

How many devices and what sort were needed? I find it difficult to believe that these could overload the existing infrastructure.

buffy said:

Yes, and there is always the worry that in a disaster the electricity is very often the first thing to go. So the generator backups will need to be beefed up too. Because it’s healthcare…people die if you don’t know what to do for them.

Meanwhile, any suggestion of a phone-based pager system is responded to with ‘but, there’s no money’.

In the last week, a long concrete path has been laid next to a building which was erected in 1963.

After 60 years, and with a new hospital on the way, a concrete path was deemed necessary where none had been before.

There was money for that.

sibeen said:

captain_spalding said:

Early last year, there was this big push to bring in electronic patient records at our hospital.

It was like an Olympis bid: let nothing stand in its way, steamroller any who suggest that there may be some difficulties with implementation, spare no expense, the project will take what it needs for as long as it needs it.

It was the new, big, hip, sexy thing, and all the bigwigs wanted to be associated with the Great Leap Forward.

And i quite like the idea of e-records. Get rid of the vast storage areas needed for paper charts, which have to be kept for seven years after the last entry in them, and often run to two or three fat volumes.

But, then it was found that the hospital’s power supply would simply collapse under the load of all the extra devices needed for the project. Couldn’t bully their way past that.

So, for over twelve months, we’ve had an electrical engineering outfit in residence, beefing up the power system.

With a whole new hospital planned to be built elsewhere in town within 10 years, i reckon the power mob will be finally driving out the ‘exit’ ramp just as the demolition mob comes in the ‘entry’ ramp to knock the old place down.

scratches head

How many devices and what sort were needed? I find it difficult to believe that these could overload the existing infrastructure.

Probably just an old building with old wiring.

sibeen said:

captain_spalding said:

Early last year, there was this big push to bring in electronic patient records at our hospital.

It was like an Olympis bid: let nothing stand in its way, steamroller any who suggest that there may be some difficulties with implementation, spare no expense, the project will take what it needs for as long as it needs it.

It was the new, big, hip, sexy thing, and all the bigwigs wanted to be associated with the Great Leap Forward.

And i quite like the idea of e-records. Get rid of the vast storage areas needed for paper charts, which have to be kept for seven years after the last entry in them, and often run to two or three fat volumes.

But, then it was found that the hospital’s power supply would simply collapse under the load of all the extra devices needed for the project. Couldn’t bully their way past that.

So, for over twelve months, we’ve had an electrical engineering outfit in residence, beefing up the power system.

With a whole new hospital planned to be built elsewhere in town within 10 years, i reckon the power mob will be finally driving out the ‘exit’ ramp just as the demolition mob comes in the ‘entry’ ramp to knock the old place down.

scratches head

How many devices and what sort were needed? I find it difficult to believe that these could overload the existing infrastructure.

Sorry, pal, that’s ‘secret squirrel’ stuff. Need to know basis, have to have the right management status/clearance, not for the ears of the hoi-polloi, jolly old ‘security’, jolly old ‘regulations’, don’ch know.

We know what we know because they have to have some underlings at the meetings to do the drudgery, and they can be a bit leaky.

As i understand it, the number of terminals/PCs/devices was going to be in triple figures.

captain_spalding said:

As i understand it, the number of terminals/PCs/devices was going to be in triple figures.

Still not making any sense. An additional 10 or 20 kW.

sibeen said:

captain_spalding said:

As i understand it, the number of terminals/PCs/devices was going to be in triple figures.

Still not making any sense. An additional 10 or 20 kW.

I know only what my sources tell me.

Had it not been for that, the e-records implement would have been bulldozed through.

As it was, there was some loss of face over the delay/postponement, and only an unarguable technical limitation would have persuaded them to put up with that.