roughbarked said:

Anyway, I wrote to him..
Paul Michna, I’m wondering about the ooyurka image Where did you source this image from?

His answer?
short and not the sweetest nor informative.

Received from a Mamu elder via the Ngadjon elders
Paul
—
Earth Science Australia
Australia’s most popular earth science website
Since 1996
http://earthsci.org

I answered, Thanks for your reply. Got any more information?

I’m quite certain that this image is not from far north Queensland.

and of course I’m still waiting hours later so I added this;

to Paul
If you call yourself the most popular earth science then you should answer my questions.
I asked for more information.
Have you got any?

What’s the background story Roughie?

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Anyway, I wrote to him..
Paul Michna, I’m wondering about the ooyurka image Where did you source this image from?

His answer?
short and not the sweetest nor informative.

Received from a Mamu elder via the Ngadjon elders
Paul
—
Earth Science Australia
Australia’s most popular earth science website
Since 1996
http://earthsci.org

I answered, Thanks for your reply. Got any more information?

I’m quite certain that this image is not from far north Queensland.

and of course I’m still waiting hours later so I added this;

to Paul
If you call yourself the most popular earth science then you should answer my questions.
I asked for more information.
Have you got any?

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Arrogance at the most popular earth scientist level?

A way to install cut-out steps between the most popular earth scientist and responsibilities and liabilities.

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s the background story Roughie?

Keep reading. For a start it is MY image. No recognition of source is provided with the image.
He claims he got it from some elders way up near Cairns. He might have but the image rights still belong to me at least as a credit. This is SCIENCE, is it not?

To further all of this, you may need to be directed to the site where the image is presented as a representation of the facts purported on the page.
http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/geostone/Geostone.html#Ooyurka

Fer cry’s sake. I personally have more information about this one stone tool than anyone has about all 22 that have been recognised as ooyurkas.

roughbarked said:

Fer cry’s sake. I personally have more information about this one stone tool than anyone has about all 22 that have been recognised as ooyurkas.

and that’s by his records. AFAIK, there are only 21.

Where were these objects when you photographed them?

Peak Warming Man said:

Where were these objects when you photographed them?

In my backyard. Where they still are.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Where were these objects when you photographed them?

In my backyard. Where they still are.

Goodo, well tear him a new one then.

Peak Warming Man said:

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Where were these objects when you photographed them?

In my backyard. Where they still are.

Goodo, well tear him a new one then.

I’m attempting to work upon his honesty in scientific representation of the facts as at least they seem to be, rather than how they affect his ego.

roughbarked said:

To further all of this, you may need to be directed to the site where the image is presented as a representation of the facts purported on the page.
http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/geostone/Geostone.html#Ooyurka

Google tells me that this site:
https://line.17qq.com/articles/aewteqhx.html

has the same image.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

To further all of this, you may need to be directed to the site where the image is presented as a representation of the facts purported on the page.
http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/geostone/Geostone.html#Ooyurka

Google tells me that this site:
https://line.17qq.com/articles/aewteqhx.html

has the same image.

So they are all ripping my image without asking for any facts about what the image represents?
I’m sure you can all see that my ooyurka is way older than any image you can find on this blessed interbet.
I’m also happy to believe that you can also see that half the items in the image are a plaster cast of what it may have looked like?

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Fer cry’s sake. I personally have more information about this one stone tool than anyone has about all 22 that have been recognised as ooyurkas.

and that’s by his records. AFAIK, there are only 21.

OTOH: if this is your photograph, then certainly you should be recognised.

OTOH: expecting reply by return on a Sunday is maybe expecting a bit much.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Fer cry’s sake. I personally have more information about this one stone tool than anyone has about all 22 that have been recognised as ooyurkas.

and that’s by his records. AFAIK, there are only 21.

OTOH: if this is your photograph, then certainly you should be recognised.

OTOH: expecting reply by return on a Sunday is maybe expecting a bit much.

I’m as fair thinking as any. I’m happy to see if he replies at all.
But he sings the praises of https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/Considerations_for_licensors_and_licensees
I simply want spoken truth.

And how did you come into possession of these stones from FNQ?

Peak Warming Man said:

And how did you come into possession of these stones from FNQ?

They are not and I will repeat. They are not from FNQ.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And how did you come into possession of these stones from FNQ?

They are not and I will repeat. They are not from FNQ.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And how did you come into possession of these stones from FNQ?

They are not and I will repeat. They are not from FNQ.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka

The story of the possession is convoluted but suffice to say, I married into this archaeolgically unlisted dig.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

They are not and I will repeat. They are not from FNQ.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka

The story of the possession is convoluted but suffice to say, I married into this archaeolgically unlisted dig.

I’ve told the story before here and from people like those who do bother to keep transcripts, it is should be easy to see that I have.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka

The story of the possession is convoluted but suffice to say, I married into this archaeolgically unlisted dig.

I’ve told the story before here and from people like those who do bother to keep transcripts, it is should be easy to see that I have.

It has been recorded in local aboriginal heritage and some or most of the stone tools and artifacts are still on display courtesy of the Whitton museum, NSW.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

They are not and I will repeat. They are not from FNQ.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka

The story of the possession is convoluted but suffice to say, I married into this archaeolgically unlisted dig.

The bottom face is remarkably square.
Could have been done by aborigines if it was rubbing on another surface that was remarkably square.
Looks to me that it was cut with a saw.

Peak Warming Man said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka

The story of the possession is convoluted but suffice to say, I married into this archaeolgically unlisted dig.

The bottom face is remarkably square.
Could have been done by aborigines if it was rubbing on another surface that was remarkably square.
Looks to me that it was cut with a saw.

man, you do need to learn a lot of stuff.
Like
I can hardly fit a cigarette paper along a straight edge apart from where the ends were rounded, probably mostly from use.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

roughbarked said:

The story of the possession is convoluted but suffice to say, I married into this archaeolgically unlisted dig.

The bottom face is remarkably square.
Could have been done by aborigines if it was rubbing on another surface that was remarkably square.
Looks to me that it was cut with a saw.

man, you do need to learn a lot of stuff.
Like
I can hardly fit a cigarette paper along a straight edge apart from where the ends were rounded, probably mostly from use.

and despite the fact that Dr Richard Cosgrove described the twenty ooryukas that were available and that he certified to me that mine was distnctly different.. Can dig that all out too but if you don’t read my posts that’s probably why I have to go to all that trouble all over again.

It isn’t like I haven’t been ranting on about this for decades.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The bottom face is remarkably square.
Could have been done by aborigines if it was rubbing on another surface that was remarkably square.
Looks to me that it was cut with a saw.

man, you do need to learn a lot of stuff.
Like
I can hardly fit a cigarette paper along a straight edge apart from where the ends were rounded, probably mostly from use.

and despite the fact that Dr Richard Cosgrove described the twenty ooryukas that were available and that he certified to me that mine was distnctly different.. Can dig that all out too but if you don’t read my posts that’s probably why I have to go to all that trouble all over again.

It isn’t like I haven’t been ranting on about this for decades.

To be fair, you do rant about a lot of stuff.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

man, you do need to learn a lot of stuff.
Like
I can hardly fit a cigarette paper along a straight edge apart from where the ends were rounded, probably mostly from use.

and despite the fact that Dr Richard Cosgrove described the twenty ooryukas that were available and that he certified to me that mine was distnctly different.. Can dig that all out too but if you don’t read my posts that’s probably why I have to go to all that trouble all over again.

It isn’t like I haven’t been ranting on about this for decades.

To be fair, you do rant about a lot of stuff.

Ok I admit that I do rant.. but the problem exists.. you haven’t yet entirely dismissed my rants.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

and despite the fact that Dr Richard Cosgrove described the twenty ooryukas that were available and that he certified to me that mine was distnctly different.. Can dig that all out too but if you don’t read my posts that’s probably why I have to go to all that trouble all over again.

It isn’t like I haven’t been ranting on about this for decades.

To be fair, you do rant about a lot of stuff.

Ok I admit that I do rant.. but the problem exists.. you haven’t yet entirely dismissed my rants.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roughbarked/2782421885/in/photolist-aeURT7-aeRWkN-aceGyL-acbPsZ-acbQvK-5eSD68/
Read the comment section.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s the background story Roughie?

Keep reading. For a start it is MY image. No recognition of source is provided with the image.
He claims he got it from some elders way up near Cairns. He might have but the image rights still belong to me at least as a credit. This is SCIENCE, is it not?

Do you remember Steve from the forum?

Before joining the forum, I included one of his images in a paper of mine, without proper attribution, becase I didn’t remember the name of the photographer.

I apologised to him later, only to get the quick respose that he didn’t recognise it.

For dozens of other images posted without attribution, see “Good Scientist Cartoon” issues.

Copyright is, not to put it too delicate a point on it, a total bloody pain in the …

mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s the background story Roughie?

Keep reading. For a start it is MY image. No recognition of source is provided with the image.
He claims he got it from some elders way up near Cairns. He might have but the image rights still belong to me at least as a credit. This is SCIENCE, is it not?

Do you remember Steve from the forum?

Before joining the forum, I included one of his images in a paper of mine, without proper attribution, becase I didn’t remember the name of the photographer.

I apologised to him later, only to get the quick respose that he didn’t recognise it.

For dozens of other images posted without attribution, see “Good Scientist Cartoon” issues.

Copyright is, not to put it too delicate a point on it, a total bloody pain in the …

it’s important to attribute intellectual property to the rightful owner. If you don’t know who that is and then they make themselves known, you apologise and fix it. It’s unfair to just use it and say “well it’s too hard to care about work that isn’t mine”.

The subject line is worthless. It gives no indication of the content.

Also the first post is baffling.

dv said:

The subject line is worthless. It gives no indication of the content.

Also the first post is baffling.

rb’s exploring the overlap and contradictions of sharing and being territorial, writing a book on the subject, soon to be on bookshop shelves

:)

dv said:

The subject line is worthless. It gives no indication of the content.

Also the first post is baffling.

Like your unexplained memes?

I mean that’s all that needed to be said.. and done about it.

I do think that you should have just told him from the outset, without trying to ‘catch him out’ but maybe that’s just me.

Anyway, alls well that ends well

Arts said:

I mean that’s all that needed to be said.. and done about it.

I do think that you should have just told him from the outset, without trying to ‘catch him out’ but maybe that’s just me.

Anyway, alls well that ends well

It isn’t just you. Been thinking that all along. Even was talking to Helix yesterday evening about it as she had read this thread.

Arts said:

I mean that’s all that needed to be said.. and done about it.

I do think that you should have just told him from the outset, without trying to ‘catch him out’ but maybe that’s just me.

Anyway, alls well that ends well

I originally simply asked him where he sourced the image.

his reply was desultory to say the least.

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

I mean that’s all that needed to be said.. and done about it.

I do think that you should have just told him from the outset, without trying to ‘catch him out’ but maybe that’s just me.

Anyway, alls well that ends well

It isn’t just you. Been thinking that all along. Even was talking to Helix yesterday evening about it as she had read this thread.

Misinformation was the main issue.
He will assure me that the misinformation will be corrected.

nah, sorry you could have asked and then made the point of saying that you believe the image is yours and hasn’t been attributed properly and could he please rectify the situation.

all in one email, then he wouldn’t have thought it was an ambiguous questions from anyone.

Arts said:

nah, sorry you could have asked and then made the point of saying that you believe the image is yours and hasn’t been attributed properly and could he please rectify the situation.

all in one email, then he wouldn’t have thought it was an ambiguous questions from anyone.

I see you are new to the roughbarked style of writing.

;-)

Arts said:

nah, sorry you could have asked and then made the point of saying that you believe the image is yours and hasn’t been attributed properly and could he please rectify the situation.

all in one email, then he wouldn’t have thought it was an ambiguous questions from anyone.

Well that’s clearly true. However, I wanted to know how the image got there. He told me he got it from FNQ aboriginal elders. Not a good enough answer.

Arts said:

nah, sorry you could have asked and then made the point of saying that you believe the image is yours and hasn’t been attributed properly and could he please rectify the situation.

all in one email, then he wouldn’t have thought it was an ambiguous questions from anyone.

The issue wasn’t about attribution.
It was about use without permission.

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

nah, sorry you could have asked and then made the point of saying that you believe the image is yours and hasn’t been attributed properly and could he please rectify the situation.

all in one email, then he wouldn’t have thought it was an ambiguous questions from anyone.

I see you are new to the roughbarked style of writing.

;-)

:)

Well I am an uneducated buffon. in your own words. :)

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

nah, sorry you could have asked and then made the point of saying that you believe the image is yours and hasn’t been attributed properly and could he please rectify the situation.

all in one email, then he wouldn’t have thought it was an ambiguous questions from anyone.

The issue wasn’t about attribution.
It was about use without permission.

probably comes under the fair use definition and so doesn’t require permission, or attribution, though it would be polite to do both.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

nah, sorry you could have asked and then made the point of saying that you believe the image is yours and hasn’t been attributed properly and could he please rectify the situation.

all in one email, then he wouldn’t have thought it was an ambiguous questions from anyone.

The issue wasn’t about attribution.
It was about use without permission.

probably comes under the fair use definition and so doesn’t require permission, or attribution, though it would be polite to do both.

Creative Commons license.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

The issue wasn’t about attribution.
It was about use without permission.

probably comes under the fair use definition and so doesn’t require permission, or attribution, though it would be polite to do both.

Creative Commons license.

and….?

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

The issue wasn’t about attribution.
It was about use without permission.

probably comes under the fair use definition and so doesn’t require permission, or attribution, though it would be polite to do both.

Creative Commons license.

I was more interested in the science. The tool pictured did not come from FNQ. It actually disproves the statement..
“What is an Ooyurka?
It is an Ooyurka if it is found in the far north Queensland region. It is a stone tool unique to the rainforest region.”

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

probably comes under the fair use definition and so doesn’t require permission, or attribution, though it would be polite to do both.

Creative Commons license.

and….?

the only course I have is to request that the user cease saying it is their image.

However, my intent was to correct the information.

anyway, the good thing is that no-one got hurt.

Arts said:

anyway, the good thing is that no-one got hurt.

there is a guy on youtube who posts accident type clips, his saying, and what most of the watchers of his videos are waiting for, is, at the end of them, saying “Luckily no one was injured”.

Arts said:

anyway, the good thing is that no-one got hurt.

No hurt was ever intended.

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

anyway, the good thing is that no-one got hurt.

there is a guy on youtube who posts accident type clips, his saying, and what most of the watchers of his videos are waiting for, is, at the end of them, saying “Luckily no one was injured”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXq3oupmGXw

I tell ya the other day this bloke came up to me………………….

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

anyway, the good thing is that no-one got hurt.

there is a guy on youtube who posts accident type clips, his saying, and what most of the watchers of his videos are waiting for, is, at the end of them, saying “Luckily no one was injured”.

I don’t watch any of those types unless they introduce it wuith the disclaimer “no one was injured”.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Creative Commons license.

and….?

the only course I have is to request that the user cease saying it is their image.

However, my intent was to correct the information.

Forgive me if I am incorrect in thinking thus but surely a tool that is found in clearly a far distant location from all others found and much older, deserves recognition of that in itself?

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

and….?

the only course I have is to request that the user cease saying it is their image.

However, my intent was to correct the information.

Forgive me if I am incorrect in thinking thus but surely a tool that is found in clearly a far distant location from all others found and much older, deserves recognition of that in itself?

and… The image used shows a plaster fascimile without stating that it is.

Roughie is upset that his picture was used without attribution. Stealing!

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners, after their land was taken from them as well. I wonder how they and their descendants feel about that.

we agree that it is likely that an upfront declaration of ownership might have resolved the matter more quickly and efficiently without bristles

on the other hand in certain circumstances there is also value in keeping the cards up the sleeve, the powder dry, or some similar idiom

we reserve judgement on whether this qualifies as one of those circumstances

and we’re all living on stolen land so what are we to make of that then

ruby said:

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners…

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

SCIENCE said:

we agree that it is likely that an upfront declaration of ownership might have resolved the matter more quickly and efficiently without bristles

on the other hand in certain circumstances there is also value in keeping the cards up the sleeve, the powder dry, or some similar idiom

we reserve judgement on whether this qualifies as one of those circumstances

Ta.

ruby said:

Roughie is upset that his picture was used without attribution. Stealing!

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners, after their land was taken from them as well. I wonder how they and their descendants feel about that.

I have put this item in their hands and they told me that it was safer in mine.

captain_spalding said:

ruby said:

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners…

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

After perusing its contents, did you return it to the phone box?

SCIENCE said:

and we’re all living on stolen land so what are we to make of that then

we are to make up some set of rules which says it was OK to do so at the time.

captain_spalding said:

ruby said:

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners…

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

Nah, it’s phone booth flotsam.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

ruby said:

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners…

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

After perusing its contents, did you return it to the phone box?

Not yet, but i could.

Roughie, you haven’t even removed the items from the location where you found them.

Rule 303 said:

captain_spalding said:

ruby said:

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners…

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

Nah, it’s phone booth flotsam.

Indeed, if we’re going to apply maritime law, i may have a salvage claim to press on the original owner.

captain_spalding said:

Rule 303 said:

captain_spalding said:

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

Nah, it’s phone booth flotsam.

Indeed, if we’re going to apply maritime law, i may have a salvage claim to press on the original owner.

I believe we can invoke the ancient commercial law case of Finder v Keepers.

SCIENCE said:

and we’re all living on stolen land so what are we to make of that then

I agree with this and this point is usually forgotten.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

After perusing its contents, did you return it to the phone box?

Not yet, but i could.

Roughie, you haven’t even removed the items from the location where you found them.

The story actually is: that they were removed to Denmark for forty years before being returned with an apology.

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

and we’re all living on stolen land so what are we to make of that then

I agree with this and this point is usually forgotten.

Mostly shoved back under the carpet whenever it pokes its head up.

captain_spalding said:

ruby said:

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners…

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

Was it a phone box or a street library?

There’s a street library down the road from me. I put five books in on Saturday night and they’d all gone by Monday morning. It’s pretty popular, worth checking daily for new books.

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

ruby said:

The item that was photographed has been taken away from the rightful owners…

I found a copy of Evelyn Waugh’s ‘Scoop’ in a phone box.

I left it there.

Five days later, it was still there. As it appeared that it was very unlikely that the owner would return, i picked it up, as it’s been many years since i read ‘Scoop’ and i wouldn’t mind reading it again.

Have i taken it away from the rightful owners?

Was it a phone box or a street library?

There’s a street library down the road from me. I put five books in on Saturday night and they’d all gone by Monday morning. It’s pretty popular, worth checking daily for new books.

Wish we had one here.

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

anyway, the good thing is that no-one got hurt.

there is a guy on youtube who posts accident type clips, his saying, and what most of the watchers of his videos are waiting for, is, at the end of them, saying “Luckily no one was injured”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXq3oupmGXw

yet people love watching those types of clips.. I mean it was the whole premise of Australia’s “Funniest” home videos..

I’m not a fan of laughing at others getting hurt…

Back to topic.

I do thank you for asking. :)
Under the creative commons licensing, it appears the only course I have is to request that the user cease saying it is their image. You could perhaps have avoided this issue by simply linking it from my Flickr. However, my intent was to correct the information. Forgive me if I am incorrect in thinking thus but surely a tool that is found in clearly a far distant location from all others found and much older, deserves recognition of that in itself?

Your description states: “What is an Ooyurka? It is an Ooyurka if it is found in the far north Queensland region. It is a stone tool unique to the rainforest region.”

..and you used this image to describe that. Do you see where I am coming from? I know that you were not aware of this so I tried to attract your attention.

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

there is a guy on youtube who posts accident type clips, his saying, and what most of the watchers of his videos are waiting for, is, at the end of them, saying “Luckily no one was injured”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXq3oupmGXw

yet people love watching those types of clips.. I mean it was the whole premise of Australia’s “Funniest” home videos..

I’m not a fan of laughing at others getting hurt…

When I was young.. yes I can still remember, It occurred to me that the only reason for watching motor vehicles go around and around would be to see if someone came unstuck and thus became bored and hence never watched motorsport again.

Hmm – I’m a big fan of schadenfreude.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXq3oupmGXw

yet people love watching those types of clips.. I mean it was the whole premise of Australia’s “Funniest” home videos..

I’m not a fan of laughing at others getting hurt…

When I was young.. yes I can still remember, It occurred to me that the only reason for watching motor vehicles go around and around would be to see if someone came unstuck and thus became bored and hence never watched motorsport again.

Even worse is the way that television coverage foucusses almost exclusively on the leading two or three cars, lap after lap after lap…

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

yet people love watching those types of clips.. I mean it was the whole premise of Australia’s “Funniest” home videos..

I’m not a fan of laughing at others getting hurt…

When I was young.. yes I can still remember, It occurred to me that the only reason for watching motor vehicles go around and around would be to see if someone came unstuck and thus became bored and hence never watched motorsport again.

Even worse is the way that television coverage foucusses almost exclusively on the leading two or three cars, lap after lap after lap…

Epic fail.

“It was unearthed in the 1950’s at depth in a sandhill between Murrami and Stanbridge, near Leeton NSW. There were a number of stone tools and artifacts unearthed at the time by my wife’s grandfather and a young woman from Denmark who was living on the farm at the time.
The majority of these were donated at the time to the museum at Whitton NSW.
Several of the stone tools including this ooryurka travelled back to Denmark with the young woman.
Many decades later the stones were returned to us with an apology saying that she would like to see them returned to their place and people of origin.
At the time I tried to relocate the stones with their people but was told that no one knows who they are and it would be preferable that I keep their history.
Which is why I contacted you.
Attribution is one thing but accuracy is another.”

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

there is a guy on youtube who posts accident type clips, his saying, and what most of the watchers of his videos are waiting for, is, at the end of them, saying “Luckily no one was injured”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXq3oupmGXw

yet people love watching those types of clips.. I mean it was the whole premise of Australia’s “Funniest” home videos..

I’m not a fan of laughing at others getting hurt…

you’ll notice that in that clip, no one was injured.

:-)

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXq3oupmGXw

yet people love watching those types of clips.. I mean it was the whole premise of Australia’s “Funniest” home videos..

I’m not a fan of laughing at others getting hurt…

you’ll notice that in that clip, no one was injured.

:-)

So you said
not that I checked to see.

“Men and women used the same tool for different purposes.”

Ian said:

“Men and women used the same tool for different purposes.”

Ha. :)

Ian said:

“Men and women used the same tool for different purposes.”

Only in FNQ. You see the problem is they’d have to be kinky and enjoy the roughness of the vesiculations. With the one I’ve got.

Jokes aside, the Ooyurka looks different, almost hi tech by comparison with the other tools on that page. Must have taken a bit if time to make.

Ian said:

Jokes aside, the Ooyurka looks different, almost hi tech by comparison with the other tools on that page. Must have taken a bit if time to make.

Clearly an indication of application of knowledge of the sciences of push and pull at the very least.

roughbarked said:

Ian said:

Jokes aside, the Ooyurka looks different, almost hi tech by comparison with the other tools on that page. Must have taken a bit if time to make.

Clearly an indication of application of knowledge of the sciences of push and pull at the very least.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka
The only ones that come up are my images.

To my knowledge thus far, there is no local history of any use for this tool in this area. The best suggestion I was given was that perhaps it had been traded and in use purely as ceremonial, though there is no history of that either. Trade routes existed. Though this is still clearly far older than the rainforest in FNQ, let alone aboriginal occupation of said rainforest post ice age.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Ian said:

Jokes aside, the Ooyurka looks different, almost hi tech by comparison with the other tools on that page. Must have taken a bit if time to make.

Clearly an indication of application of knowledge of the sciences of push and pull at the very least.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka
The only ones that come up are my images.

To my knowledge thus far, there is no local history of any use for this tool in this area. The best suggestion I was given was that perhaps it had been traded and in use purely as ceremonial, though there is no history of that either. Trade routes existed. Though this is still clearly far older than the rainforest in FNQ, let alone aboriginal occupation of said rainforest post ice age.

Almost all other ooyurka found were ploughed up planting sugarcane. They are dated as since 5,000 years.

The one in my possession deserves recognition as being totally unique.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Clearly an indication of application of knowledge of the sciences of push and pull at the very least.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka
The only ones that come up are my images.

To my knowledge thus far, there is no local history of any use for this tool in this area. The best suggestion I was given was that perhaps it had been traded and in use purely as ceremonial, though there is no history of that either. Trade routes existed. Though this is still clearly far older than the rainforest in FNQ, let alone aboriginal occupation of said rainforest post ice age.

Almost all other ooyurka found were ploughed up planting sugarcane. They are dated as since 5,000 years.

The one in my possession deserves recognition as being totally unique.

So, you found it near your place?

Ian said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ooyurka
The only ones that come up are my images.

To my knowledge thus far, there is no local history of any use for this tool in this area. The best suggestion I was given was that perhaps it had been traded and in use purely as ceremonial, though there is no history of that either. Trade routes existed. Though this is still clearly far older than the rainforest in FNQ, let alone aboriginal occupation of said rainforest post ice age.

Almost all other ooyurka found were ploughed up planting sugarcane. They are dated as since 5,000 years.

The one in my possession deserves recognition as being totally unique.

So, you found it near your place?

I didn’t find it. It came in the mail from Denmark, from Margot an old family friend..

I will repeat..

It was unearthed in the 1950’s at depth in a sandhill between Murrami and Stanbridge, near Leeton NSW. There were a number of stone tools and artifacts unearthed at the time by my wife’s grandfather and a young woman from Denmark who was living on the farm at the time. The majority of these were donated at the time to the museum at Whitton NSW.Several of the stone tools including this ooryurka travelled back to Denmark with the young woman. Many decades later the stones were returned to us with an apology saying that she would like to see them returned to their place and people of origin. At the time I tried to relocate the stones with their people but was told that no one knows who they are and it would be preferable that I keep their history.
Which is why I contacted you. Attribution is one thing but accuracy is another.

roughbarked said:

Ian said:

roughbarked said:

Almost all other ooyurka found were ploughed up planting sugarcane. They are dated as since 5,000 years.

The one in my possession deserves recognition as being totally unique.

So, you found it near your place?

I didn’t find it. It came in the mail from Denmark, from Margot an old family friend..

I will repeat..

It was unearthed in the 1950’s at depth in a sandhill between Murrami and Stanbridge, near Leeton NSW. There were a number of stone tools and artifacts unearthed at the time by my wife’s grandfather and a young woman from Denmark who was living on the farm at the time. The majority of these were donated at the time to the museum at Whitton NSW.Several of the stone tools including this ooryurka travelled back to Denmark with the young woman. Many decades later the stones were returned to us with an apology saying that she would like to see them returned to their place and people of origin. At the time I tried to relocate the stones with their people but was told that no one knows who they are and it would be preferable that I keep their history.
Which is why I contacted you. Attribution is one thing but accuracy is another.

Fkn vikings!

there’s also something to be said for approaching an interaction prepared to engage in constructive dialogue, as opposed to appearing to back others into a corner and effectively forcing them to bare their claws

SCIENCE said:

there’s also something to be said for approaching an interaction prepared to engage in constructive dialogue, as opposed to appearing to back others into a corner and effectively forcing them to bare their claws

In my case as my best friend ppointed out, you’d need to be close enough to watch how my eyebrows work.
I suppose that implies that my eyebrows could give my pokerface away?

just look at it from my point of view. Who gives a rat’s arse who I am and that I photographed it. It is about tangible evidence of something far less understood than any other tool and may well be the oldest record of its use.
Who cares who I am? It doesn’t even relate to me other than that I am attempting to get other people to see something that is a fact rather than a conspiracy.

roughbarked said:

just look at it from my point of view. Who gives a rat’s arse who I am and that I photographed it. It is about tangible evidence of something far less understood than any other tool and may well be the oldest record of its use.
Who cares who I am? It doesn’t even relate to me other than that I am attempting to get other people to see something that is a fact rather than a conspiracy.

I sent Dr Richard Cosgrove a photo and he confirmed that it was an ooyurka though it was different from any that he had studied, attached a .pdf relating to his thesis and said he was doing different things nowadays..

like… when I see an image of the same .. purported to only come from FNQ.. hang on…

roughie complains about a digital image being lifted, but that’s nothing compared to having a film negative nicked by the chemist place… and used for profit.

Ian said:

roughie complains about a digital image being lifted, but that’s nothing compared to having a film negative nicked by the chemist place… and used for profit.

It wasn’t about it being lifted though that hurt as well. It was about accuracy if you are going to use my fucking image.

roughbarked said:

Ian said:

roughie complains about a digital image being lifted, but that’s nothing compared to having a film negative nicked by the chemist place… and used for profit.

It wasn’t about it being lifted though that hurt as well. It was about accuracy if you are going to use my fucking image.

I haven’t really been following the thread but isn’t the image your intellectual property?

roughbarked said:

Ian said:

roughie complains about a digital image being lifted, but that’s nothing compared to having a film negative nicked by the chemist place… and used for profit.

It wasn’t about it being lifted though that hurt as well. It was about accuracy if you are going to use my fucking image.

I know I’ve told you thus before..
I mean, I am no scientist. In fact the only degree I hold, is one of great difficulty. In other words, that’s how most people find me.
Sincerely,

Obviousman said:

roughbarked said:

Ian said:

roughie complains about a digital image being lifted, but that’s nothing compared to having a film negative nicked by the chemist place… and used for profit.

It wasn’t about it being lifted though that hurt as well. It was about accuracy if you are going to use my fucking image.

I haven’t really been following the thread but isn’t the image your intellectual property?

Yes it is, as also is the subject matter my physical property in that I am the current holder.

I have no intent to pass it to any non deserving of holding its history in their possession. It will pass to my children to find the true ownership by the looks.

We had a brilliant silver-grey Arabian stallion (had won his class at the Royal Easter Show).. yeah, he had a couple of faults but his forte was his most amazing extreme extended trot.. where the horse floats across the ground with a moment of suspension before flicking out the foreleg.

We thought we’d do a photo session.. wash him with the show shampoo etc then let him gallop around and around his paddock at liberty until he settled enough to steady into an extended trot, which he would do by voice command. We rattled a plastic tarp to stir him up a bit more when he started to tire.

Anyway, we got some really brilliant shots and put them in for processing. When we got them back I had a vague feeling that there should have been at least one even better image.

A few years later, I was teaching a neighbour’s daughter piano and we were talking about Arabians, and she said that she had a great poster of one running on the beach. Well, I was stunned.. said that looks remarkably like our stallion. I went and studied the poster a second time and became convinced that it was our stallion. Every marking matched, down to his distinctive ‘parti’ near-fore hoof and a scar.

The thieving bastard/s had snipped off the negative and done a good job of combining my image with the edge of the surf thereby blurring the transition, with the surf hiding most of the hooves. Then they had used it to produce one of those large scale posters that used to sit around in racks outside supermarkets.

Yes, I was a little pissed..

Ian said:

We had a brilliant silver-grey Arabian stallion (had won his class at the Royal Easter Show).. yeah, he had a couple of faults but his forte was his most amazing extreme extended trot.. where the horse floats across the ground with a moment of suspension before flicking out the foreleg.

We thought we’d do a photo session.. wash him with the show shampoo etc then let him gallop around and around his paddock at liberty until he settled enough to steady into an extended trot, which he would do by voice command. We rattled a plastic tarp to stir him up a bit more when he started to tire.

Anyway, we got some really brilliant shots and put them in for processing. When we got them back I had a vague feeling that there should have been at least one even better image.

A few years later, I was teaching a neighbour’s daughter piano and we were talking about Arabians, and she said that she had a great poster of one running on the beach. Well, I was stunned.. said that looks remarkably like our stallion. I went and studied the poster a second time and became convinced that it was our stallion. Every marking matched, down to his distinctive ‘parti’ near-fore hoof and a scar.

The thieving bastard/s had snipped off the negative and done a good job of combining my image with the edge of the surf thereby blurring the transition, with the surf hiding most of the hooves. Then they had used it to produce one of those large scale posters that used to sit around in racks outside supermarkets.

Yes, I was a little pissed..

No doubt. It does kick you in the guts a bit.

Arts said:

mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

Keep reading. For a start it is MY image. No recognition of source is provided with the image.
He claims he got it from some elders way up near Cairns. He might have but the image rights still belong to me at least as a credit. This is SCIENCE, is it not?

Do you remember Steve from the forum?

Before joining the forum, I included one of his images in a paper of mine, without proper attribution, becase I didn’t remember the name of the photographer.

I apologised to him later, only to get the quick respose that he didn’t recognise it.

For dozens of other images posted without attribution, see “Good Scientist Cartoon” issues.

Copyright is, not to put it too delicate a point on it, a total bloody pain in the …

it’s important to attribute intellectual property to the rightful owner. If you don’t know who that is and then they make themselves known, you apologise and fix it. It’s unfair to just use it and say “well it’s too hard to care about work that isn’t mine”.

I see this but my real issue with the whole thing was and still is, the fact that it wasn’t ever recorded properly at the time but still has merit that can be ascertained. it really isn’t about me and my rights at all.
It is about how the photo is represented.
After all it has been on the web for a lot of years now. I’ve always stated what I knew of it’s origins but it is found to be used in a different context? Of course I am going to ask questions.

Ian said:

We had a brilliant silver-grey Arabian stallion (had won his class at the Royal Easter Show).. yeah, he had a couple of faults but his forte was his most amazing extreme extended trot.. where the horse floats across the ground with a moment of suspension before flicking out the foreleg.

We thought we’d do a photo session.. wash him with the show shampoo etc then let him gallop around and around his paddock at liberty until he settled enough to steady into an extended trot, which he would do by voice command. We rattled a plastic tarp to stir him up a bit more when he started to tire.

Anyway, we got some really brilliant shots and put them in for processing. When we got them back I had a vague feeling that there should have been at least one even better image.

A few years later, I was teaching a neighbour’s daughter piano and we were talking about Arabians, and she said that she had a great poster of one running on the beach. Well, I was stunned.. said that looks remarkably like our stallion. I went and studied the poster a second time and became convinced that it was our stallion. Every marking matched, down to his distinctive ‘parti’ near-fore hoof and a scar.

The thieving bastard/s had snipped off the negative and done a good job of combining my image with the edge of the surf thereby blurring the transition, with the surf hiding most of the hooves. Then they had used it to produce one of those large scale posters that used to sit around in racks outside supermarkets.

Yes, I was a little pissed..

similar horse and action

As stated way back up there he says there are 22 of these and I know there are only 21. Maybe he is including my plaster one as the 22nd?
We still have this aspect to learn about among other things.

roughbarked said:

As stated way back up there he says there are 22 of these and I know there are only 21. Maybe he is including my plaster one as the 22nd?
We still have this aspect to learn about among other things.

As I keep saying, You want ref’s? well this photo does have refs. please use the correct ones.

With botany, there have been and probably still are plant collections that have been mis-filed (often by the collector) where the collection locality is an anomaly and far away from other collection points. Although not disregarded and still recorded they are held with a degree of suspicion until additional information comes to light, when they can be fully acknowledged, or corrected.

Your artefact appears to fall in the same category with the possibility of confused recollections due to the 40 year period before it came into your hands, therefore there must be some doubt as the where and by whom it was originally acquired. These things happen with the best of intentions and only research is likely to authenticate your artefact as to where it might have been made and used. I think in the circumstances, the way to go is to ask the expert for their opinion and if they would like to view your artefact, you never know you might gain a greater insight.

PermeateFree said:

With botany, there have been and probably still are plant collections that have been mis-filed (often by the collector) where the collection locality is an anomaly and far away from other collection points. Although not disregarded and still recorded they are held with a degree of suspicion until additional information comes to light, when they can be fully acknowledged, or corrected.

Your artefact appears to fall in the same category with the possibility of confused recollections due to the 40 year period before it came into your hands, therefore there must be some doubt as the where and by whom it was originally acquired. These things happen with the best of intentions and only research is likely to authenticate your artefact as to where it might have been made and used. I think in the circumstances, the way to go is to ask the expert for their opinion and if they would like to view your artefact, you never know you might gain a greater insight.

Yes I have thought about that. Unfortunately what happened during the dig and afterwards until the stone came back to me were all beyond my control.

The dig should have been carried out as any dig would today but it was not.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

To further all of this, you may need to be directed to the site where the image is presented as a representation of the facts purported on the page.
http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/geostone/Geostone.html#Ooyurka

Google tells me that this site:
https://line.17qq.com/articles/aewteqhx.html

has the same image.

To add, though I have not contacted this site yet, the image has already been changed to this one.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

To further all of this, you may need to be directed to the site where the image is presented as a representation of the facts purported on the page.
http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/geostone/Geostone.html#Ooyurka

Google tells me that this site:
https://line.17qq.com/articles/aewteqhx.html

has the same image.

To add, though I have not contacted this site yet, the image has already been changed to this one.

OK, we have got more information regarding the above.

Paul Michna

30 Apr 2021, 16:05 (15 hours ago)

to me
Dear Peter
Thank you and your Ngyamppa friend for protecting this rare artifact.
I asked for advice — they think the ooykura originated in this area and they are pleased that it is protected.
But as to who provided your photo, I cannot get an answer sorry, tribal and clan politics, currently a mountain vs. coastal thing, and all that from which I must remain neutral.
I may get someone to say who later in which case, if I get permission, I will let you know.

I have taken down your images and replaced them with ones of ooykura kept locally for reasons given below…
It turns out that the Line17qq.com mob were linking the image directly off the Ngadjonji site without my knowledge. So that has solved another problem for you and created one for me.
It is a very suspect website, be very wary of malware. I would advise not to risk opening any links on this site.

Your ooykura is probably a trade item – kept for its “wow” factor. I have seen a beautifully polished and virtually unused axehead in the rainforest that originated from material only found in Kalkadoon country near Mount Isa, a terrain analysis study confirmed that this 1200km journey was both possible and feasible. The speculation is that is was carried from site to site for its “wow” factor just like a young lad with a sports car. meant to be seen but generally not to be used.

Paul.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Google tells me that this site:
https://line.17qq.com/articles/aewteqhx.html

has the same image.

To add, though I have not contacted this site yet, the image has already been changed to this one.

OK, we have got more information regarding the above.

Paul Michna

30 Apr 2021, 16:05 (15 hours ago)

to me
Dear Peter
Thank you and your Ngyamppa friend for protecting this rare artifact.
I asked for advice — they think the ooykura originated in this area and they are pleased that it is protected.
But as to who provided your photo, I cannot get an answer sorry, tribal and clan politics, currently a mountain vs. coastal thing, and all that from which I must remain neutral.
I may get someone to say who later in which case, if I get permission, I will let you know.

I have taken down your images and replaced them with ones of ooykura kept locally for reasons given below…
It turns out that the Line17qq.com mob were linking the image directly off the Ngadjonji site without my knowledge. So that has solved another problem for you and created one for me.
It is a very suspect website, be very wary of malware. I would advise not to risk opening any links on this site.

Your ooykura is probably a trade item – kept for its “wow” factor. I have seen a beautifully polished and virtually unused axehead in the rainforest that originated from material only found in Kalkadoon country near Mount Isa, a terrain analysis study confirmed that this 1200km journey was both possible and feasible. The speculation is that is was carried from site to site for its “wow” factor just like a young lad with a sports car. meant to be seen but generally not to be used.

Paul.

Sounds like a reasonable response.

Dark Orange said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

To add, though I have not contacted this site yet, the image has already been changed to this one.

OK, we have got more information regarding the above.

Paul Michna

30 Apr 2021, 16:05 (15 hours ago)

to me
Dear Peter
Thank you and your Ngyamppa friend for protecting this rare artifact.
I asked for advice — they think the ooykura originated in this area and they are pleased that it is protected.
But as to who provided your photo, I cannot get an answer sorry, tribal and clan politics, currently a mountain vs. coastal thing, and all that from which I must remain neutral.
I may get someone to say who later in which case, if I get permission, I will let you know.

I have taken down your images and replaced them with ones of ooykura kept locally for reasons given below…
It turns out that the Line17qq.com mob were linking the image directly off the Ngadjonji site without my knowledge. So that has solved another problem for you and created one for me.
It is a very suspect website, be very wary of malware. I would advise not to risk opening any links on this site.

Your ooykura is probably a trade item – kept for its “wow” factor. I have seen a beautifully polished and virtually unused axehead in the rainforest that originated from material only found in Kalkadoon country near Mount Isa, a terrain analysis study confirmed that this 1200km journey was both possible and feasible. The speculation is that is was carried from site to site for its “wow” factor just like a young lad with a sports car. meant to be seen but generally not to be used.

Paul.

Sounds like a reasonable response.

Yep. I’m accepting it. For now. Who knows, we may learn more in the future.

There’s more;

“The Ngadjonji do not generally make possum skin blankets as they would quickly rot out in the jungle. Rather they make “blankets” from the inner bark of a tree. I do not know if any blankets have survived as artifacts. It is mostly hot and humid in the rainforest and the Ngadjon tended to make woven blankets out of the inner bark of the tulip oak. The bark would be stripped from the tree then teased into threads or fine rope before being woven together – this was apparently done in the dry season. When the “Wet” came the threads would swell and make a waterproof covering. – it is speculated that the ooykura may have been used to roll rhe fibres together and that would account for the polish and lineation pattern but the truth is that none of the local first Australians can say what its use was for sure.”

Which also leads me to add that they cannot know where the one in my possession was made or what it was used for.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Google tells me that this site:
https://line.17qq.com/articles/aewteqhx.html

has the same image.

To add, though I have not contacted this site yet, the image has already been changed to this one.

OK, we have got more information regarding the above.

Paul Michna

30 Apr 2021, 16:05 (15 hours ago)

to me
Dear Peter
Thank you and your Ngyamppa friend for protecting this rare artifact.
I asked for advice — they think the ooykura originated in this area and they are pleased that it is protected.
But as to who provided your photo, I cannot get an answer sorry, tribal and clan politics, currently a mountain vs. coastal thing, and all that from which I must remain neutral.
I may get someone to say who later in which case, if I get permission, I will let you know.

I have taken down your images and replaced them with ones of ooykura kept locally for reasons given below…
It turns out that the Line17qq.com mob were linking the image directly off the Ngadjonji site without my knowledge. So that has solved another problem for you and created one for me.
It is a very suspect website, be very wary of malware. I would advise not to risk opening any links on this site.

Your ooykura is probably a trade item – kept for its “wow” factor. I have seen a beautifully polished and virtually unused axehead in the rainforest that originated from material only found in Kalkadoon country near Mount Isa, a terrain analysis study confirmed that this 1200km journey was both possible and feasible. The speculation is that is was carried from site to site for its “wow” factor just like a young lad with a sports car. meant to be seen but generally not to be used.

Paul.

Whilst doing a cultural heritage survey in Kalkadoon country (60 km southeast of Cloncurry), we found a broken (into 3 pieces) ground-edge and ground-faces axehead. The type of basalt it was made from, leads me to conclude that it came from southern Victoria.

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

To add, though I have not contacted this site yet, the image has already been changed to this one.

OK, we have got more information regarding the above.

Paul Michna

30 Apr 2021, 16:05 (15 hours ago)

to me
Dear Peter
Thank you and your Ngyamppa friend for protecting this rare artifact.
I asked for advice — they think the ooykura originated in this area and they are pleased that it is protected.
But as to who provided your photo, I cannot get an answer sorry, tribal and clan politics, currently a mountain vs. coastal thing, and all that from which I must remain neutral.
I may get someone to say who later in which case, if I get permission, I will let you know.

I have taken down your images and replaced them with ones of ooykura kept locally for reasons given below…
It turns out that the Line17qq.com mob were linking the image directly off the Ngadjonji site without my knowledge. So that has solved another problem for you and created one for me.
It is a very suspect website, be very wary of malware. I would advise not to risk opening any links on this site.

Your ooykura is probably a trade item – kept for its “wow” factor. I have seen a beautifully polished and virtually unused axehead in the rainforest that originated from material only found in Kalkadoon country near Mount Isa, a terrain analysis study confirmed that this 1200km journey was both possible and feasible. The speculation is that is was carried from site to site for its “wow” factor just like a young lad with a sports car. meant to be seen but generally not to be used.

Paul.

Whilst doing a cultural heritage survey in Kalkadoon country (60 km southeast of Cloncurry), we found a broken (into 3 pieces) ground-edge and ground-faces axehead. The type of basalt it was made from, leads me to conclude that it came from southern Victoria.

Mine is made from vesicular basalt. A material of which no other ooyurks is made from.