Needs a thread of its own I guess…

LOL

When I was on the BBC site this morning I spotted something about Scottish cliff hanger election.
I’ll go and have a good look st that after lunch or maybe later as I have an interest on some of the early Caufield races.

Peak Warming Man said:

When I was on the BBC site this morning I spotted something about Scottish cliff hanger election.
I’ll go and have a good look st that after lunch or maybe later as I have an interest on some of the early Caufield races.

The poms have a Caufield cup too?

Looks like the experiment with Tory-lite Labour has failed again.

dv said:

Looks like the experiment with Tory-lite Labour has failed again.

Still better than Venezuela ammairight…

dv said:

Looks like the experiment with Tory-lite Labour has failed again.

pretty much every leader since Blair has been a failure.

dv said:

Looks like the experiment with Tory-lite Labour has failed again.

So where are they supposed to go?

Hard Right?

So when do we find out the results of the Scottish elections?

party_pants said:

So when do we find out the results of the Scottish elections?

I’m not sure.
If it’s a proper first past the post election we’ll know by tomorrow.
If it’s a Hare Clark system could be up to six months.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

So when do we find out the results of the Scottish elections?

I’m not sure.
If it’s a proper first past the post election we’ll know by tomorrow.
If it’s a Hare Clark system could be up to six months.

It is some bizarre hybrid of electorates using FTTP and regional proportional representation.

The Rev Dodgson said:

So where are they supposed to go?

Hard Right?

Maybe they could try being the Labour Party.

They’ve got the same issue as does the ALP

Just as the Man from Marketing aches to be seen as a more ‘financially-responsible’ version of Bob Hawke, so does the ALP wish devoutly to be seen as a more ‘financially-responsible’ version of themselves. Efforts to dispel the widespread idea that they’re radical spendthrifts beholden to the unions have meant that they’ve moved ever closer to modelling themselves on the Liberal Party, trying to separate themselves from the unions, cosying up to the same people that the Liberals do, and presenting what they hope is a comforting conservative image.

UK Labour has done much the same.

The ALP’s greatest triumph was 1972, of course, and they won that precisely because they presented themselves as being radically different to L/CP governments of previous years.

They weren’t necessarily going to do what the US said. Whitlam visited China (as Opposition leader) in 1971, a year before Nixon did. The US didn’t like Whitlam going, but he went, and once he had, Nixon was almost compelled to also visit so as to not seem left behind. (And they held it against Whitlam ever after.)

They made it plain that they weren’t going to be beholden to the mining companies and the press barons. They outlined a set of social reforms that dragged Australia into the latter half of the 20th century.

And people liked it, and they voted for them.

Now, both Labour and the ALP are barely distinguishable from the Tories and the Liberals.

Why should people vote for a change of government, if all you’re going to get is pretty much more of the same?

captain_spalding said:

And people liked it, and they voted for them.

Although it was a love that did not survive the initial courting stage.

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So where are they supposed to go?

Hard Right?

Maybe they could try being the Labour Party.

They’ve got the same issue as does the ALP

Just as the Man from Marketing aches to be seen as a more ‘financially-responsible’ version of Bob Hawke, so does the ALP wish devoutly to be seen as a more ‘financially-responsible’ version of themselves. Efforts to dispel the widespread idea that they’re radical spendthrifts beholden to the unions have meant that they’ve moved ever closer to modelling themselves on the Liberal Party, trying to separate themselves from the unions, cosying up to the same people that the Liberals do, and presenting what they hope is a comforting conservative image.

UK Labour has done much the same.

The ALP’s greatest triumph was 1972, of course, and they won that precisely because they presented themselves as being radically different to L/CP governments of previous years.

They weren’t necessarily going to do what the US said. Whitlam visited China (as Opposition leader) in 1971, a year before Nixon did. The US didn’t like Whitlam going, but he went, and once he had, Nixon was almost compelled to also visit so as to not seem left behind. (And they held it against Whitlam ever after.)

They made it plain that they weren’t going to be beholden to the mining companies and the press barons. They outlined a set of social reforms that dragged Australia into the latter half of the 20th century.

And people liked it, and they voted for them.

Now, both Labour and the ALP are barely distinguishable from the Tories and the Liberals.

Why should people vote for a change of government, if all you’re going to get is pretty much more of the same?

That’s bullshit. THe NDIS is a case in point.

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So where are they supposed to go?

Hard Right?

Maybe they could try being the Labour Party.

They’ve got the same issue as does the ALP

Just as the Man from Marketing aches to be seen as a more ‘financially-responsible’ version of Bob Hawke, so does the ALP wish devoutly to be seen as a more ‘financially-responsible’ version of themselves. Efforts to dispel the widespread idea that they’re radical spendthrifts beholden to the unions have meant that they’ve moved ever closer to modelling themselves on the Liberal Party, trying to separate themselves from the unions, cosying up to the same people that the Liberals do, and presenting what they hope is a comforting conservative image.

UK Labour has done much the same.

The ALP’s greatest triumph was 1972, of course, and they won that precisely because they presented themselves as being radically different to L/CP governments of previous years.

They weren’t necessarily going to do what the US said. Whitlam visited China (as Opposition leader) in 1971, a year before Nixon did. The US didn’t like Whitlam going, but he went, and once he had, Nixon was almost compelled to also visit so as to not seem left behind. (And they held it against Whitlam ever after.)

They made it plain that they weren’t going to be beholden to the mining companies and the press barons. They outlined a set of social reforms that dragged Australia into the latter half of the 20th century.

And people liked it, and they voted for them.

Now, both Labour and the ALP are barely distinguishable from the Tories and the Liberals.

Why should people vote for a change of government, if all you’re going to get is pretty much more of the same?

What would suggest as a “great reform” platform?

I reckon abolishing the house of lords, and setting up a proper federal system with regional English governments might be a goer.

Witty Rejoinder said:

That’s bullshit. THe NDIS is a case in point.

There’s always exceptional cases. Sometimes even politicians get it right.

But the general facts remain unaltered.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

That’s bullshit. THe NDIS is a case in point.

There’s always exceptional cases. Sometimes even politicians get it right.

But the general facts remain unaltered.

No they’re more of the usual crap you spout about politics.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

That’s bullshit. THe NDIS is a case in point.

There’s always exceptional cases. Sometimes even politicians get it right.

But the general facts remain unaltered.

No they’re more of the usual crap you spout about politics.

A subjective opinion.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

There’s always exceptional cases. Sometimes even politicians get it right.

But the general facts remain unaltered.

No they’re more of the usual crap you spout about politics.

A subjective opinion.

And yours isn’t?

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

No they’re more of the usual crap you spout about politics.

A subjective opinion.

And yours isn’t?

Never said it wasn’t.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Looks like the experiment with Tory-lite Labour has failed again.

So where are they supposed to go?

Hard Right?

I mean at least that would leave the field clear for the Greens

party_pants said:

So when do we find out the results of the Scottish elections?

Give it til mid next week.

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

So when do we find out the results of the Scottish elections?

I’m not sure.
If it’s a proper first past the post election we’ll know by tomorrow.
If it’s a Hare Clark system could be up to six months.

It is some bizarre hybrid of electorates using FTTP and regional proportional representation.

There’s nothing in the countryside, bugger all, you might see Sven and Hildegard walking the burns and hills but they wont be there for fruit picking.
In Autumn/Winter months they shut down the buses to remote areas, PWM got the tip to see the postman, he has a 4×4 van and he took me to Tongue for free and gave me a running historic commentary of the surrounds.

dv said:

I mean at least that would leave the field clear for the Greens

People who vote for the conservative party are never going to vote for the Greens, but people who would have formerly voted for the less conservative party may well be tempted to vote Green.

Doesn’t make it easy to oust conservatives.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

A subjective opinion.

And yours isn’t?

Never said it wasn’t.

So your ‘facts’ were just an opinion. Better be more careful next time lest you get ridiculed for inexact language.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

And yours isn’t?

Never said it wasn’t.

So your ‘facts’ were just an opinion. Better be more careful next time lest you get ridiculed for inexact language.

Oh, there was plenty of facts in there. The latter part was opinion and interpretation.

It’s a fairly common practice in writing to present facts and opinion/interpretation in the same item.

Milliband wasn’t all bad but a mistake he made that is going to have a negative impact for decades was not getting Labour 100% behind this. Tories can coast to victory on 40% forever under FTTP, even if 60% of people think they’re the worst.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Never said it wasn’t.

So your ‘facts’ were just an opinion. Better be more careful next time lest you get ridiculed for inexact language.

Oh, there was plenty of facts in there. The latter part was opinion and interpretation.

It’s a fairly common practice in writing to present facts and opinion/interpretation in the same item.

Riiighhht.

Labour isn’t working
Getting rid of Keir won’t solve the party’s structural, cultural and existential problems
BY PAUL EMBERY

It has long been evident to me, as someone involved in the Labour movement for over a quarter of a century, that many of my colleagues on the Left have no comprehension of what is going on. They have no idea about the extent to which traditional political tribalism has broken down in our country and the old certainties no longer apply.

This conviction struck me most forcibly during a pivotal debate on Brexit at the Labour Party’s annual conference in Liverpool in 2018. Before the discussion, I had wandered around the city’s pubs and conference fringe speaking to delegates and visitors. There was an undue chirpiness in the air. Labour was now the largest political party in western Europe, people would remind me. The glorious leader was playing to packed houses everywhere. Ergo, we stood every chance of forming the next government.

Then, during the Brexit debate itself, the conference rallied enthusiastically behind a motion explicitly putting a second EU referendum on the table. I remember gazing around the hall in despair as speaker after speaker pledged support for the motion, each drawing wild cheers and applause from delegates. That the adoption of this policy was almost certain to result in electoral oblivion seemed lost on virtually everyone present.

At that moment, I tweeted that the conference was effectively handing a P45 to every Labour MP in the North and Midlands. I knew then that this self-inflicted wound would take years — possibly a generation — to heal. Images from the debate would that evening be beamed into the homes of loyal Labour voters across the party’s pro-Brexit heartlands, and millions among them would perceive the outcome as the ultimate kick in the teeth. Labour had betrayed its already-diminishing traditional working-class base and would pay a heavy price.

Nearly three years and one general election annihilation later, and the relationship remains in a serious state of disrepair. That point is proved by what we know so far of Thursday’s election results, and what we may reasonably predict will unfold in the coming days. That Labour, in a set of ballots two years into a parliament, appears to have lost so much ground in working-class communities against a Tory Party that has been in power for over a decade — and during that time imposed a programme of economic austerity which inflicted financial adversity on many of the nation’s poorest — speaks to the magnitude of the former’s estrangement from its one-time core vote.

That Labour’s losing Hartlepool — a seat which, since its creation in 1974, it has held at every general election — came in the end as no great surprise, itself speaks volumes. What was striking, though, was the plunge in the party’s share of the vote there by nine percentage points, and the increase in the Tory share by a remarkable 23 points.

At the time of writing, the picture looks bleak for Labour in the local authority elections, too, with the party in retreat in many areas. Heavy damage was sustained in the Midlands and North-East, and the party has lost control of at least four councils — including Harlow in Essex, a 1960s new town often described as the home of White Van Man.

The mistake — and some among Labour’s ranks are already making it — would be to lay the blame solely at the door of Sir Keir Starmer. The devastating results are attributable to the leader’s attempts to shift the party to the “centre” ground, argues the radical Left, adducing, among other things, the fact that Labour held Hartlepool under Jeremy Corbyn in 2019 (though ignoring the inconvenient truth that it did so only as a consequence of thousands of would-be Tory votes being redirected to the Brexit Party).

For their part, the Starmerites blame the Corbyn legacy, as though the rot set in only with the latter’s elevation as leader in 2015.

Both camps are profoundly wrong. The schism between the party and the working class began to materialise as long as three decades ago. The historical coalition in which Hartlepool had for generations rubbed along contentedly with Hampstead — blue collar and white collar united in the struggle for social and economic justice — started to fall apart as Labour began to be dominated by the latter, transforming itself into a party of the managerial and professional classes, graduates and urban liberals. Not only was the party abandoning those in provincial and post-industrial Britain, it started to privately — and sometimes publicly — scorn them.

The inevitable result was the steady flow of working-class votes away from Labour. Some were swept up by the likes of Ukip and even the BNP; millions more from that point simply went uncast.

For a long time, disillusioned working-class voters in the Labour heartlands were reluctant to throw in their lot with the Tories, conscious of the stigma that often came with voting for the traditional enemy. It was only in 2019 that these voters, still brimming with anger over attempts to reverse the referendum result, decided in huge numbers to back a Conservative Party that had pledged to “Get Brexit Done”. The taboo had been broken. Having voted Tory once, these voters would — as we have seen — have no hesitation in doing the same again.

All of this means that Labour faces the prospect of being out of power for another decade or more — perhaps forever. That’s why the battle that currently rages for control of the party, between its liberal and radical wings, is the proverbial two bald men fighting over a comb. If either side wins, it will find that the instrument over which it had struggled for possession turns out to be of little practical use — at least as far as forming a government is concerned.

That is because Labour’s problems are structural, cultural and elemental. They run far deeper than questions of party management and whether or not free broadband is a vote winner. If the objective is to win back the Red Wall, then neither the liberal nor radical Left has the correct prescription.

In fact, the war between the two camps is, in many respects, a phoney one. There is far more that unites them than either would care to admit — or even seem to comprehend. Both are imbued with the same bourgeois, metropolitan, globalist worldview. Both aim their pitch at the student, the social activist, the fellow middle-class progressive, at Twitter. Both obsess about identity politics and “diversity”. Both hitch their wagon to every minority crusade and then afford to it an undue level of prominence. Both are largely ignorant — and often contemptuous — of the lives and priorities of those in small-town Britain, of their communitarian impulse, traditional values, desire for belonging and sense of national pride.

For these reasons, changing the face at the top would be pointless. In fact, given that Sir Keir has personally shown signs of understanding what needs to be done to win back the Red Wall — focusing much of his language since ascending to the leadership on the themes of family, community and nation — his defenestration would, if anything, prove counter-productive. What Labour needs is a root and branch ideological overhaul, not regicide. As matters currently lie, any leader attempting to take the party in the right direction would find himself or herself shackled by a membership and activist base — as well as the greater part of a parliamentary cohort — which simply has no intention of going there.

In the more fashionable cities and the university towns, Labour continues to thrive. Witness, for example, Sadiq Khan’s predicted comfortable victory in London. And therein lies the party’s dilemma. Any organisation seeking to hold together a coalition of interest groups must be wary about indulging one part of it to such a degree that its other elements begin to feel neglected. The greater the success of Labour in the citadels of cosmopolitan liberalism, the more likely it is that the old industrial heartlands will become fretful. That is precisely what has happened.

In the way that the working-class component of Labour’s coalition was expected to — and did — make concessions in the 1990s to enable the party to broaden its appeal among the upwardly mobile middle classes, so the obligation falls today on the latter to compromise so that the party stands at least a chance of recovering the support of the former. That doesn’t necessarily mean abandoning any commitment to a radical (but nonetheless credible) economic programme: there are deep wells of support in working-class communities for a more egalitarian economy, a higher minimum wage, investment in public services, reductions in income and wealth inequality, and so on. But it does mean understanding the small-“c” conservatism and proclivity for social solidarity and cultural attachment that exists across large parts of provincial and post-industrial Britain.

It also means being prepared to put front and centre the doorstep issues — law and order, immigration, national security — which Labour activists are usually uncomfortable discussing. If that means that topics such as LGBT rights, climate change, gender identity, Palestine and the next woke cause that comes along must take more of a back seat, so be it. The party must begin to look and sound again like those who have abandoned it and reflect their priorities. Until that happens, it will be relegated to the status of a middle-class pressure group.

I have heard some inside Labour’s ranks argue that the old blue-collar vote has gone for good, and the party must now throw everything at consolidating and widening its new young, liberal, metropolitan, university-educated, pro-EU base. But so far as such a strategy would be electorally viable — and that is doubtful — what would be the point of it? If Labour could not bring itself to speak for its old working-class base living in some of the country’s most disadvantaged communities, it would have betrayed its very reason for existing. The objective — and it may never be realised — must be to win back the hearts and minds of those whose votes it must recover if it is to win power and fulfil its historical mission once more — not to write those voters off as a lost cause.

While polls are rarely useful as tools for predicting the outcome of general elections three years into the future, these latest results will prove valuable for revealing just how bad things have become for Labour. The party’s banishment from large swathes of its former strongholds, and the dogged resistance of voters in those places to all attempts at reconciliation, cannot be attributed to the standard ups and downs of electoral fortune or a desire on the part of those voters to deliver a well-deserved warning shot across Labour’s bows before returning to its fold in due course.

This is much more. The entire axis of British politics has moved. Even in 1983, when under Michael Foot it suffered a crushing election defeat at the hands of Margaret Thatcher, Labour managed to retain much of its working-class base. What we are witnessing today, by contrast, is a paradigm shift. Thursday’s elections were the latest evidence of it. The rules have been rewritten, the landscape has changed utterly. For Labour, this may yet prove terminal — only most of the party still doesn’t realise it.

https://unherd.com/2021/05/labour-isnt-working/

dv said:

Milliband wasn’t all bad but a mistake he made that is going to have a negative impact for decades was not getting Labour 100% behind this. Tories can coast to victory on 40% forever under FTTP, even if 60% of people think they’re the worst.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

In fairness, Corbyn was similarly stupid in opposing a strategic electoral alliance in 2017. He would probably have ended as PM if that had come to fruition.

sibeen said:

>…I have heard some inside Labour’s ranks argue that the old blue-collar vote has gone for good, and the party must now throw everything at consolidating and widening its new young, liberal, metropolitan, university-educated, pro-EU base. But so far as such a strategy would be electorally viable — and that is doubtful — what would be the point of it?…

What’s the point of trying to appeal to morons who support Brexit against their own interests?

Labour should tell the right-wing working class where to go, forget the class system and just offer progressive policies to progressive voters in general.

dv said:

It’s not about Starmer either. Presumably many of the people who voted to try to keep Boris out couldn’t be bothered voting in a by-election.

sibeen said:

https://unherd.com/2021/05/labour-isnt-working/

The level of self-delusion in that article is off the charts.

Corbyn lead the party to a massive defeat in 2019. As I pointed out last night, in two of the last three elections Labour only won Hartlepool by default because of the FPTP voting system, the Conservatives and UKIP got more than 50% of the vote but split it so Labour won by default with less than 40% of the vote. It is delusional to call it a safe seat when you’re consistently getting less than 50% of the primary vote. If it had been lost in the 2019 election it would have just been another nail in the coffin of Corbynism.

… and don’t get me started on Brexit. It is the most silly and self-destructive thing any country could do to itself. To argue that a second referendum is some sort of betrayal is beyond delusional. Nobody knew what exactly they were voting for, just empty promises and a vague idea.

¿ fibre to the premises ?

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

https://unherd.com/2021/05/labour-isnt-working/

The level of self-delusion in that article is off the charts.

Corbyn lead the party to a massive defeat in 2019. As I pointed out last night, in two of the last three elections Labour only won Hartlepool by default because of the FPTP voting system, the Conservatives and UKIP got more than 50% of the vote but split it so Labour won by default with less than 40% of the vote. It is delusional to call it a safe seat when you’re consistently getting less than 50% of the primary vote. If it had been lost in the 2019 election it would have just been another nail in the coffin of Corbynism.

… and don’t get me started on Brexit. It is the most silly and self-destructive thing any country could do to itself. To argue that a second referendum is some sort of betrayal is beyond delusional. Nobody knew what exactly they were voting for, just empty promises and a vague idea.

Brexit is done, there are no votes in it anymore, the UK has crocked the Rubicon, there is no going back.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

It’s not about Starmer either. Presumably many of the people who voted to try to keep Boris out couldn’t be bothered voting in a by-election.

I suppose we don’t get to run counterfactuals. Maybe they’d have lost 50% of their vote with a different leader. It’s a bit hard to get into the heads of voters willing to swing to the Tories after the last couple of years.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

https://unherd.com/2021/05/labour-isnt-working/

The level of self-delusion in that article is off the charts.

Corbyn lead the party to a massive defeat in 2019. As I pointed out last night, in two of the last three elections Labour only won Hartlepool by default because of the FPTP voting system, the Conservatives and UKIP got more than 50% of the vote but split it so Labour won by default with less than 40% of the vote. It is delusional to call it a safe seat when you’re consistently getting less than 50% of the primary vote. If it had been lost in the 2019 election it would have just been another nail in the coffin of Corbynism.

… and don’t get me started on Brexit. It is the most silly and self-destructive thing any country could do to itself. To argue that a second referendum is some sort of betrayal is beyond delusional. Nobody knew what exactly they were voting for, just empty promises and a vague idea.

Brexit is done, there are no votes in it anymore, the UK has crocked the Rubicon, there is no going back.

crossed.

Peak Warming Man said:

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

The level of self-delusion in that article is off the charts.

Corbyn lead the party to a massive defeat in 2019. As I pointed out last night, in two of the last three elections Labour only won Hartlepool by default because of the FPTP voting system, the Conservatives and UKIP got more than 50% of the vote but split it so Labour won by default with less than 40% of the vote. It is delusional to call it a safe seat when you’re consistently getting less than 50% of the primary vote. If it had been lost in the 2019 election it would have just been another nail in the coffin of Corbynism.

… and don’t get me started on Brexit. It is the most silly and self-destructive thing any country could do to itself. To argue that a second referendum is some sort of betrayal is beyond delusional. Nobody knew what exactly they were voting for, just empty promises and a vague idea.

Brexit is done, there are no votes in it anymore, the UK has crocked the Rubicon, there is no going back.

crossed.

amphora

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

https://unherd.com/2021/05/labour-isnt-working/

The level of self-delusion in that article is off the charts.

Corbyn lead the party to a massive defeat in 2019. As I pointed out last night, in two of the last three elections Labour only won Hartlepool by default because of the FPTP voting system, the Conservatives and UKIP got more than 50% of the vote but split it so Labour won by default with less than 40% of the vote. It is delusional to call it a safe seat when you’re consistently getting less than 50% of the primary vote. If it had been lost in the 2019 election it would have just been another nail in the coffin of Corbynism.

… and don’t get me started on Brexit. It is the most silly and self-destructive thing any country could do to itself. To argue that a second referendum is some sort of betrayal is beyond delusional. Nobody knew what exactly they were voting for, just empty promises and a vague idea.

Brexit is done, there are no votes in it anymore, the UK has crocked the Rubicon, there is no going back.

I don’t think the EU will have them back either. Not now after the mess of the process.

The thing now is the preservation of the union. As a result of Brexit the kingdom itself is now unravelling. I think only a federal system can keep it together. Centralisation of power in Westminster is not one of the strengths of British democracy, it is actually a core weakness.

“the UK has crocked the Rubicon,”

They certainly have.

SCIENCE said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Brexit is done, there are no votes in it anymore, the UK has crocked the Rubicon, there is no going back.

crossed.

amphora

He’s in the can like Rubicon mango

SNP
50 seats
Con
3
(
)
Scottish National Party
50
(+3)
Liberal Democrat
4
(0)
Conservative
3
(-2)
Labour
2
(-1)
Green
0
(0)
Undeclared
70

Voters in Scotland elect an MSP in 73 constituencies, plus top-up MSPs in eight regions, to a total of 129. The regional seats are awarded taking into account the constituency results. This system compensates parties with a strong regional vote that did not get many constituency seats.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2021/may/06/2021-elections-results-may-local-scottish-welsh-polls

sarahs mum said:

SNP
50 seats
Con
3
(
)
Scottish National Party
50
(+3)
Liberal Democrat
4
(0)
Conservative
3
(-2)
Labour
2
(-1)
Green
0
(0)
Undeclared
70

Voters in Scotland elect an MSP in 73 constituencies, plus top-up MSPs in eight regions, to a total of 129. The regional seats are awarded taking into account the constituency results. This system compensates parties with a strong regional vote that did not get many constituency seats.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2021/may/06/2021-elections-results-may-local-scottish-welsh-polls

Looks a fine result for the SNP.

Mark Biscuit-Barrel Drakeford (Silly) 26,578

So, a good result for the Silly Party there.

SNP got 64 seats, just 1 seat shy of the 65 they need for an absolute majority. The voting system is designed to make it very hard for any party to get an absolute majority. However the SNP will form government. There are a few other minor parties that are pro-independence too and want a new referendum in this term of parliament, like the Scottish Greens, so there still might be a good chance of the Scots calling it.

dv said:

Let’s be honest though, Labour are so inept they could lose an election in a one party state.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/video-hartlepool-voters-tory-labour-jill-mortimer-268639/

WATCH: Voters in Hartlepool say they voted Tory because of NHS and police cuts

Otto English says “deep-rooted political illiteracy” is allowing those in power to remain popular after footage showed two voters in Hartlepool blame Labour for police and hospital cuts.

Despite being out of power for more than a decade the two men seemed to confuse national political decisions for those being made on the ground in local constituencies.

He added: “Now we’re getting to a stage where you can sort of think for yourself – we’ve had enough of Labour. They’ve just wrecked it, everything.

“The hospital, we haven’t even got a cell where we can lock someone up on a night. We haven’t got a court, where we can take them to court. What’s that all about? You’ve got to have these facilities, police.”

According to GMB figures released in 2019 some 23,500 police staff jobs have been lost in England and Wales since 2010, when the Conservatives were voted into government.

The figures include more than 7,000 cuts to Police Community Support Officer roles (PCSOs).

Rachel Harrison, GMB National Officer, commented at the time: “The Tories talk tough on crime but in reality they’ve spent the last decade denying police forces the resources they need to keep the public safe.

“They have put lives at risk every day.”

At the start of the pandemic, John McDonnell said that ten years of “cuts, weak growth, and widespread insecure work” left the UK in a “vulnerable position” to a shock like the one the country faced with the escalating coronavirus.

Some 150,000 people are thought to have perished due to the virus in the country.

dv said:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/video-hartlepool-voters-tory-labour-jill-mortimer-268639/

WATCH: Voters in Hartlepool say they voted Tory because of NHS and police cuts

Otto English says “deep-rooted political illiteracy” is allowing those in power to remain popular after footage showed two voters in Hartlepool blame Labour for police and hospital cuts. Despite being out of power for more than a decade the two men seemed to confuse national political decisions for those being made on the ground in local constituencies. He added: “Now we’re getting to a stage where you can sort of think for yourself – we’ve had enough of Labour. They’ve just wrecked it, everything.

well hey in a world where Marketing can take the credit for a landslide to Mark, anything can happen

joking aside we’ve said it before, if you’re a corruption coalition or something similar, just make the people stupid and you’ve got your political futures in the bag

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/glasgow-kenmure-immigration-evictions-release-b1847157.html

Police have released two men detained by immigration officials after crowds swarmed the street for hours to block their van from leaving.

Officers said they were freeing the men for the safety of everyone involved following a stand-off in Glasgow that lasted for nearly eight hours.

Bubblecar said:

I bet he’s a damn Jew-boy, too.

The Labour Government in Wales is talking about setting up a UBI scheme.

It seems like the UK are the verge of agreement with Australia and New Zealand for tariff free access for agricultural goods into the UK.

Reports are this is causing a big angry slit in the BoJo cabinet.

The Labour Party is being pulled apart by its two main constituencies
Sir Keir Starmer is struggling to hold them together

Britain
May 15th 2021 edition

Harold wilson once said that “if you can’t ride two horses at once you shouldn’t be in the ruddy circus.” To judge from his recent performance, Sir Keir Starmer, the Labour Party’s leader, can’t ride a pet donkey, let alone two horses. He declared that he took full responsibility for the May 6th massacre in local elections and a by-election, only to turn on the party’s popular deputy leader, Angela Rayner. The resulting outcry united the squabbling party against him and forced him to give her several new roles.

With Labour’s two driving forces parting company, equestrian skill is increasingly important in Sir Keir’s job. The Labour Party has always depended on a “progressive alliance” between two very different groups—what were once called “workers by hand” and “workers by brain”. The first provided the numbers and the second the intellectual élan. The party’s founding commitment to nationalisation, Clause Four, was drafted by two professional scribblers, Sidney and Beatrice Webb. Labour’s most radical prime minister, Clement Attlee, was educated at a public school, Haileybury; his cabinet included four old Etonians.

These two groups didn’t always get on. Beatrice Webb confessed to her diary that “we have little faith in the ‘average sensual man’. We do not believe that he can do much more than describe his grievances, we do not think that he can prescribe his remedies.” Hugh Dalton, Labour’s postwar Eton-and-Cambridge-educated chancellor of the exchequer, once told G.D.H. Cole, the party’s leading intellectual, that Labour needed to do more to appeal to “the football crowds”. Cole “shuddered and turned away”. But the two groups agreed on the essential things: building the welfare state and expanding opportunities.

The relationship is now in ruins. One reason is the shift in the balance of power. The “workers by hand” feel that they have had their party—and indeed their country—stolen from them. In 1951, 70% of voters were manual workers. Today that figure is less than 40%. In 1945 only a few thousand school leavers went to university. Today more than half do. The proportion of Labour mps who have done a working-class job at some point has declined from 33% in 1983 to less than 10% today. Almost 80% of Labour Party members fall into the official definition of middle-class.

Suzy Stride, who stood for the party and lost in 2015, compares the attitude of middle-class activists trying to get out the working-class vote to Ryanair passengers “having to stomach a couple of hours’ flight with people they shared little in common with: it could be uncomfortable but it got you where you needed to go.” Now the two groups can no longer agree on the destination. In their recent book “Brexit Land” two academics at the University of Manchester, Maria Sobolewska and Robert Ford, argue that today’s political divide is cultural rather than economic. The university-educated classes define themselves by their cosmopolitan values—their enthusiasm for immigration and fierce hostility to racial and gender-based prejudice. Voters from the old working-class define themselves by their fealty to “traditional values” of flag, family and fireside. And a large new Labour block—immigrants and the children of immigrants—usually sides with the first group despite being more culturally conservative. Originating in long-term changes such as the expansion of the universities and the rise of a multicultural society, the division has been supercharged by Brexit.

What is a leader riding these two diverging steeds to do? Sir Keir’s decision to appoint Deborah Mattinson, the author of “Beyond the Red Wall”, as his chief strategist suggests that he wants to focus on the old working class. But the strategy isn’t working. The progressive vote in the south is fragmenting among Greens and Liberal Democrats while the Conservatives are continuing to make gains in the North.

Many people in the party, from Blairites to young progressives, favour a different approach. They want to embrace the “coalition of the ascendant” in the form of university-educated professionals, young people and ethnic minorities. Tony Blair did exactly this to bring about the longest winning streak in Labour history. Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump by mobilising the same coalition, stretching from Black Lives Matter activists to suburban mothers. The rise of the Greens in Germany suggests that the old progressive coalition is capable of reorganising itself around new problems and new values.

But this strategy is also risky. Mr Blair’s politics had a downside: about 5m mainly working-class voters gave up voting during his long period in power, and many of them are now voting Tory. It is doubtful whether he could win in today’s circumstances. Labour has lost its vote-vault in Scotland and the culture wars are far more divisive than they used to be. Mr Biden won only narrowly, even though he was up against an opponent who had suggested, among other idiocies, that people should fight covid-19 by injecting themselves with bleach. Britain’s constituency-based electoral system also makes it more difficult to pursue a broad realignment because the left’s votes tend to pile up in the cities. Labour already has 20 of the 25 largest majorities in the country while the party’s internal analysis of its 125 “must win” seats shows that more than half of them are in largely working-class areas.

There is a long tradition of predictions that Labour’s internal contradictions will lead to its demise. Plenty of people pronounced the party dead in the Thatcher-Major era only to see Mr Blair ride it to three election victories. But Labour’s internal contradictions have grown since then. The “coalition of the ascendant” is too small to win on its own but too preoccupied by cultural politics to make its peace with the old working class. Perhaps the “coalition of the ascendant” will one day be big enough to canter to victory alone. Perhaps the culture wars will eventually cool down. But for the time being the problem is not just Sir Keir’s horsemanship but the configuration of the whole ruddy circus.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/05/15/the-labour-party-is-being-pulled-apart-by-its-two-main-constituencies

Interesting goings on. Cummings has finally given his evidence before a parliamentary committee. He describes BoJo as being thick and naive and unfit for office. He also has a crack at BoJo’s fiance for interfering in government appointments by trying to get her friends into jobs. Also dumps a huge bucket on the Health Secretary calling him an outright liar. He makes it sound like the PM and cabinet didn’t understand the danger and significance of Covid in the early days and thought it would just go away on its own.

Mind you, the man is a complete arse and hopeless narcissist himself.

party_pants said:

Interesting goings on. Cummings has finally given his evidence before a parliamentary committee. He describes BoJo as being thick and naive and unfit for office. He also has a crack at BoJo’s fiance for interfering in government appointments by trying to get her friends into jobs. Also dumps a huge bucket on the Health Secretary calling him an outright liar. He makes it sound like the PM and cabinet didn’t understand the danger and significance of Covid in the early days and thought it would just go away on its own.

Mind you, the man is a complete arse and hopeless narcissist himself.

That’s why I commented earlier, in Chat:

>Yeah but it’s a case of a useless turd calling another useless turd a useless turd, so maybe won’t have much impact:

Dominic Cummings used to be Boris Johnson’s closest aide. Now he’s the UK PM’s most dangerous enemy

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-27/boris-johnson-aide-dominic-cummings-testifies-on-covid-response/100167114

Bubblecar said:

That’s why I commented earlier, in Chat:

OK. I’m not usually a catcher-upper on all the chat I missed since the night before.

LOL

https://www.businessinsider.com/disgraced-tory-lord-backed-by-boris-johnson-gives-conservatives-500k-2021-6?r=US&IR=T

Disgraced Conservative Lord Peter Cruddas has donated more than £500,000 to Boris Johnson’s party after becoming a peer.

Cruddas resigned as party co-treasurer in 2012 after offering undercover reporters access to then Prime Minister David Cameron in exchange for £250,000 in donations.

He was subsequently nominated for a peerage by Boris Johnson despite the advice of the House of Lords Appointments Commission.

SCIENCE said:

LOL

https://www.businessinsider.com/disgraced-tory-lord-backed-by-boris-johnson-gives-conservatives-500k-2021-6?r=US&IR=T

Disgraced Conservative Lord Peter Cruddas has donated more than £500,000 to Boris Johnson’s party after becoming a peer.

Cruddas resigned as party co-treasurer in 2012 after offering undercover reporters access to then Prime Minister David Cameron in exchange for £250,000 in donations.

He was subsequently nominated for a peerage by Boris Johnson despite the advice of the House of Lords Appointments Commission.

Yeah that’s pretty funny

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

LOL

https://www.businessinsider.com/disgraced-tory-lord-backed-by-boris-johnson-gives-conservatives-500k-2021-6?r=US&IR=T

Disgraced Conservative Lord Peter Cruddas has donated more than £500,000 to Boris Johnson’s party after becoming a peer.

Cruddas resigned as party co-treasurer in 2012 after offering undercover reporters access to then Prime Minister David Cameron in exchange for £250,000 in donations.

He was subsequently nominated for a peerage by Boris Johnson despite the advice of the House of Lords Appointments Commission.

Yeah that’s pretty funny

slaps knee

really the whole of the House of Lardybums is bit of joke.

party_pants said:

really the whole of the House of Lardybums is bit of joke.

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

really the whole of the House of Lardybums is bit of joke.

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

really the whole of the House of Lardybums is bit of joke.

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

That’s democracy for ya.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

really the whole of the House of Lardybums is bit of joke.

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

Unelected swill.

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

That’s democracy for ya.

It’s a primitive nation in various ways.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

Unelected swill.

If you’re going to quote Keating at least get it right.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

really the whole of the House of Lardybums is bit of joke.

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

they add colour.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

That’s democracy for ya.

It’s a primitive nation in various ways.

It’s been a while since anyone advanced the theory that societies develop along a single trajectory.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

really the whole of the House of Lardybums is bit of joke.

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

It is disappointing that the US was established for the purpose of not having a uber rich ruling class and religion, but now they do, and are heading down the same route of rich people making rules for the poor.

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

That’s democracy for ya.

It’s a primitive nation in various ways.

It’s been a while since anyone advanced the theory that societies develop along a single trajectory.

Good job no-one’s suggested that here, tonight.

But yes, the UK retains all kinds of barbaric medieval bullshit and most of them don’t realise how embarrassing it is, not to mention unfair.

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

People also ask
How many Lords Spiritual are there in the House of Lords?
The Lords Spiritual of the United Kingdom are the 26 bishops of the established Church of England who serve in the House of Lords (not counting retired archbishops who sit by right of a peerage).

there are nearly 800 members, none elected.

It is disappointing that the US was established for the purpose of not having a uber rich ruling class and religion, but now they do, and are heading down the same route of rich people making rules for the poor.

Yes, There needs to be a mechanism for separating election success from financial resources and backing. Otherwise only rich bastards get to contest elections and you get unrepresentative swill whichever way you vote.

I’m not sure I like the tone of this conversation.
I might just go to bed.

Good day.

party_pants said:

Yes, There needs to be a mechanism for separating election success from financial resources and backing. Otherwise only rich bastards get to contest elections and you get unrepresentative swill whichever way you vote.

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

Now look what you’ve done.

party_pants said:

party_pants said:

Yes, There needs to be a mechanism for separating election success from financial resources and backing. Otherwise only rich bastards get to contest elections and you get unrepresentative swill whichever way you vote.

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

RBG had to be carted out.

Peak Warming Man said:

Now look what you’ve done.

Meh.

party_pants said:

party_pants said:

Yes, There needs to be a mechanism for separating election success from financial resources and backing. Otherwise only rich bastards get to contest elections and you get unrepresentative swill whichever way you vote.

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

It would be a good idea for the house of commons to disband the house of lords, but I’m pretty sure that the house of lords would not agree.

This is why civil wars start.

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

party_pants said:

Yes, There needs to be a mechanism for separating election success from financial resources and backing. Otherwise only rich bastards get to contest elections and you get unrepresentative swill whichever way you vote.

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

It would be a good idea for the house of commons to disband the house of lords, but I’m pretty sure that the house of lords would not agree.

This is why civil wars start.

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

they had an empire once. all the pink bits on the map. civilised the known world.

Bogsnorkler said:

they had an empire once. all the pink bits on the map. civilised invaded the known world.

ftfy

Bogsnorkler said:

they had an empire once. all the pink bits on the map. civilised the known world.

I work on the theory that the British political system (House of Commons) is the root cause for failure of the empire.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

It would be a good idea for the house of commons to disband the house of lords, but I’m pretty sure that the house of lords would not agree.

This is why civil wars start.

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

It would be a good idea for the house of commons to disband the house of lords, but I’m pretty sure that the house of lords would not agree.

This is why civil wars start.

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

They could replace it with a more effective upper house based upon proportional representation.

party_pants said:

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

They could replace it with a more effective upper house based upon proportional representation.

well yes, but that has nothing to do with what I asked.

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

It would be a good idea for the house of commons to disband the house of lords, but I’m pretty sure that the house of lords would not agree.

This is why civil wars start.

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

To society, not much, but to the common people that work and earn a living, the laws would slowly change in their favour.

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

It would be a good idea for the house of commons to disband the house of lords, but I’m pretty sure that the house of lords would not agree.

This is why civil wars start.

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

It would be a good idea for the house of commons to disband the house of lords, but I’m pretty sure that the house of lords would not agree.

This is why civil wars start.

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

It would be a useful step in disestablishing the class system that has polluted their culture for sooo long.

Kingy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

To society, not much, but to the common people that work and earn a living, the laws would slowly change in their favour.

They got Brexit, what more do they want?

Kingy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

To society, not much, but to the common people that work and earn a living, the laws would slowly change in their favour.

They got Brexit, what more do they want?

Kingy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

If there was a referendum on the issue I can’t see that the lords could refuse to extinguish themselves. They might still get to keep their title of lord until they die.

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

To society, not much, but to the common people that work and earn a living, the laws would slowly change in their favour.

Like they have in australia? or the US under trump etc? anyway, my question was to disregard the parliament bit.

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

Bogsnorkler said:

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

They could replace it with a more effective upper house based upon proportional representation.

well yes, but that has nothing to do with what I asked.

I don’t move in those circles. I imagine there are many class conscious people who base their social status and personal identity on being a lord. I further imagine they might be just a tiny bit miffed if they were deprived of this. But that is separate to having a vote in the house.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Kingy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

apart from not being in parliament, what difference would it make to british society to get rid of the peerage?

To society, not much, but to the common people that work and earn a living, the laws would slowly change in their favour.

They got Brexit, what more do they want?

The lords got brexit by propaganda so that they would not have to pay extra taxes on their extreme wealth.

The commons got shafted, again.

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

The real scum are on Indue.

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

So why exactly do you think it would be a good idea to continue sanctioning all that by retaining the peerage?

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

Chip away. At least remove their right to sit in a parliament without election.

Bubblecar said:

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

So why exactly do you think it would be a good idea to continue sanctioning all that by retaining the peerage?

that isn’t my position.

party_pants said:

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

Chip away. At least remove their right to sit in a parliament without election.

jesus christ.

Bogsnorkler said:

Bubblecar said:

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

So why exactly do you think it would be a good idea to continue sanctioning all that by retaining the peerage?

that isn’t my position.

You are nonetheless being contrarian on this topic.

Bogsnorkler said:

Bubblecar said:

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

So why exactly do you think it would be a good idea to continue sanctioning all that by retaining the peerage?

that isn’t my position.

I misunderstood.

I take it your position is not only to remove the lords from the parliament but to cancel their peerages too? In contrast to my suggestion to just remove them from the parliament but let them keep their titles?

if not, let us know what the position is.

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

The whole purpose of an election is to allow the less fortunate to have a say in how the country is governed.

The rich entitled people already have a huge say in the economy, even though they are a very small proportion of the population.

This has always been the way. Democracy allows poor people to have a say.

Bubblecar said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Bubblecar said:

So why exactly do you think it would be a good idea to continue sanctioning all that by retaining the peerage?

that isn’t my position.

You are nonetheless being contrarian on this topic.

no i’m not. i am asking those who wish to do away with the peerage what benefits, beside them not being in parliament and doing law things etc, would it actually make to the common man/woman. there would still be a class system. their kids would still go to posh schools.

party_pants said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Bubblecar said:

So why exactly do you think it would be a good idea to continue sanctioning all that by retaining the peerage?

that isn’t my position.

I misunderstood.

I take it your position is not only to remove the lords from the parliament but to cancel their peerages too? In contrast to my suggestion to just remove them from the parliament but let them keep their titles?

if not, let us know what the position is.

Let them keep their titles until they die were your words. I took that to mean the titles would not be passed on.

Kingy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

The whole purpose of an election is to allow the less fortunate to have a say in how the country is governed.

The rich entitled people already have a huge say in the economy, even though they are a very small proportion of the population.

This has always been the way. Democracy allows poor people to have a say.

so mining companies etc have an equal say in the running of australia as the common man? so murdoch doesn’t swing elections?

Bogsnorkler said:

Bubblecar said:

Bogsnorkler said:

that isn’t my position.

You are nonetheless being contrarian on this topic.

no i’m not. i am asking those who wish to do away with the peerage what benefits, beside them not being in parliament and doing law things etc, would it actually make to the common man/woman. there would still be a class system. their kids would still go to posh schools.

It’s a deeply ingrained system that will take a long time to dismantle. Anything that advances that cause is welcome, in my book.

lets be clear. I may be english and like all the history but i don’t live there and have no loyalty to the place and couldn’t care less about their political system.

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

Bogsnorkler said:

that isn’t my position.

I misunderstood.

I take it your position is not only to remove the lords from the parliament but to cancel their peerages too? In contrast to my suggestion to just remove them from the parliament but let them keep their titles?

if not, let us know what the position is.

Let them keep their titles until they die were your words. I took that to mean the titles would not be passed on.

My understanding of the current House of Lords is that most (80%) of the members are life peers, i.e. their title does not not pass on to their children when they die. The number of lords who sit in the house due to inherited titles is quite small, less than a hundred.

Bogsnorkler said:

lets be clear. I may be english and like all the history but i don’t live there and have no loyalty to the place and couldn’t care less about their political system.

< sotto voce> pommy bastard < /sotto voce>

Bogsnorkler said:

Kingy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

they still be rich. they’d still own the estates etc. they just wouldn’t be lords etc. so you have a bunch of rich entitled people, just like everywhere else in the world. how are the less fortunate doing in those places?

The whole purpose of an election is to allow the less fortunate to have a say in how the country is governed.

The rich entitled people already have a huge say in the economy, even though they are a very small proportion of the population.

This has always been the way. Democracy allows poor people to have a say.

so mining companies etc have an equal say in the running of australia as the common man? so murdoch doesn’t swing elections?

The director of the mining company has one vote, just as we all do. Murdoch does have stupid amounts of money and influence to swing elections, and that does unfortunately change things. Luckily, he doesn’t get a vote in Australia now, but there are a lot more normal people here that vote in their own interests.

Bogsnorkler said:

lets be clear. I may be english and like all the history but i don’t live there and have no loyalty to the place and couldn’t care less about their political system.

Fairy Nuff. I just don’t like a system where the inherited rich can change the laws to suit themselves, and ignore the people who have to work every day to put food on the table for their kids.

Kingy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

lets be clear. I may be english and like all the history but i don’t live there and have no loyalty to the place and couldn’t care less about their political system.

Fairy Nuff. I just don’t like a system where the inherited rich can change the laws to suit themselves, and ignore the people who have to work every day to put food on the table for their kids.

the rich, inherited or otherwise if in parliament, seem to do that here.

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

party_pants said:

Yes, There needs to be a mechanism for separating election success from financial resources and backing. Otherwise only rich bastards get to contest elections and you get unrepresentative swill whichever way you vote.

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

RBG had to be carted out.

She was a fucking judge not a politician

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

RBG had to be carted out.

She was a fucking judge not a politician

i think she was a bit past fucking, but you never know with these people.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

RBG had to be carted out.

She was a fucking judge not a politician

I am so glad I’m not an American, having people stand around the bed and score my performance.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

RBG had to be carted out.

She was a fucking judge not a politician

A ‘fucking’ judge? It’s still odd to be appointed for life.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

But that seems a minor problem compared to having people appointed for life and not open to being voted out of office.

RBG had to be carted out.

She was a fucking judge not a politician

I think she lost it a bit when they moved to the “10 must system” per round. Threw her off her game.

sibeen said:

I think she lost it a bit when they moved to the “10 must system” per round.

Strong words. Strong, baffling words.

so in summary so called “democracies” are so called

sarahs mum said:

UK electoral officials announce biggest shake-up of boundaries in decades

Labour leader among those affected by changes, which will increase the number of English constituencies at the expense of Scotland and Wales

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/08/uk-electoral-officials-announce-biggest-shake-up-of-boundaries-in-decades

so essentially they’re paving the way for a rapid decrease in the number of Scottish constituencies to zero

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:

UK electoral officials announce biggest shake-up of boundaries in decades

Labour leader among those affected by changes, which will increase the number of English constituencies at the expense of Scotland and Wales

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/08/uk-electoral-officials-announce-biggest-shake-up-of-boundaries-in-decades

so essentially they’re paving the way for a rapid decrease in the number of Scottish constituencies to zero

Looks to me that moreso they are aiding the cry for welsh independence.

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:

UK electoral officials announce biggest shake-up of boundaries in decades

Labour leader among those affected by changes, which will increase the number of English constituencies at the expense of Scotland and Wales

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/08/uk-electoral-officials-announce-biggest-shake-up-of-boundaries-in-decades

so essentially they’re paving the way for a rapid decrease in the number of Scottish constituencies to zero

Looks to me that moreso they are aiding the cry for welsh independence.

Yes. That too. They have never seemed to grasp the concept of sharing power, or for minority but significant players in a union to have a right of veto over the larger party on matters of vital importance. This has been a problem ever since 1776.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

so essentially they’re paving the way for a rapid decrease in the number of Scottish constituencies to zero

Looks to me that moreso they are aiding the cry for welsh independence.

Yes. That too. They have never seemed to grasp the concept of sharing power, or for minority but significant players in a union to have a right of veto over the larger party on matters of vital importance. This has been a problem ever since 1776.

For queen and country whippersnapper

A new version of Essex man is born in the north
Meet Geordie Tory
Britain
Jun 12th 2021 edition

Viz, an idiosyncratic combination of adult comic and satirical magazine, has been compulsory reading in all civilised households since Chris Donald started producing it, in 1979, from his bedroom at his parents’ house in Newcastle. It features characters who go to the heart of modern Britain: Millie Tant, a ranting feminist; Sid the Sexist, who gives Millie plenty to rant about; Roger Mellie, a disgusting television personality; and dozens more whose names cannot be mentioned in a respectable newspaper. This columnist would like to suggest a new subject for Viz to lampoon: Geordie Tory. It seems odd, to say the least, for the north-east’s premier publication to remain silent about a political revolution that is turning a former Labour stronghold Tory blue.

The London-based commentariat has convinced itself that Geordie Tory is a left-behind loser who voted for a Brexit and Boris spit-roast to express his rage at globalisation. This is only a small part of the story. For the hidden truth about Geordie Tory is that he is actually doing rather well for himself. He did not go to university (thus avoiding a pile of student debt), but quickly found a job at a local firm, and his money goes much further in the north than it would in the south. He lives in a four-bedroomed semi-detached, has a couple of cars in the drive and can rely on two sets of grandparents to chip in with child care. He zips to work or Asda in a few minutes, thinks the local school is doing an acceptable job and looks forward to his next holiday in Florida, providing the government can stop faffing about. He pities his school friends who went to university, moved down south and now either live in a crowded flat or (before the covid-19 pandemic) spent a couple of hours a day on a packed train.

Geordie Tory’s world has been transformed by a combination of de-massification and bourgeoisification. The Labour Party’s power was based on industries (such as coal, steel and shipbuilding) and companies (such as Swan Hunters and Vickers-Armstrong) that employed thousands of unionised workers. The new economy is built on a combination of skills and flexibility. There is a handful of (mostly de-unionised) big companies (Flymo-Electrolux in Spennymoor, Cummins Engines in Darlington and Nissan in Sunderland), but they co-exist with hundreds of smaller firms that manufacture car parts, switch gears, air-conditioners and specialist equipment for the oil-and-gas economy. Twenty years ago towns such as Amble in Northumberland did not have much upmarket entertainment. Now they are so chock-a-block with restaurants, microbars and fancy cafés that the locals complain that you can’t find anywhere to park.

Geordie Tory has long been attracted by the Tory party’s pro-business, low-tax philosophy, but continued to vote Labour out of habit. Two things gave him permission to switch: Brexit and Jeremy Corbyn. Whether he voted for Brexit or not he was unhappy with attempts to overturn “the people’s will”. And the north-east is to Britain what the south is to America. It has provided the country with soldiers, sailors and airmen in numbers far exceeding its share of the population, and its landscape is littered with stone memorials to the fallen (South Shields lost a higher proportion of its citizens in the second world war than any other town). Geordie Tory was damned if he was going to vote for a man who mistook valour for warmongering and made excuses for the ira.

He is nevertheless far from being a defender of the government, let alone a Tory activist. He thinks about politics as little as possible, except when it impinges on his life. But something profound has changed in the past few years. The “sod you” factor that has always been such an important aspect of regional politics has found a new target. During Labour’s glory days from 1945 to the early 21st century the “sod you” factor favoured the left. The Tories were the party of the southern elite with its soft hands and namby-pamby ways. Today it favours the right. Geordie Tory doesn’t so much like Boris Johnson as loathe the Guardian-reading, Britain-bashing, virtue-signalling metropolitan establishment that holds Mr Johnson in contempt.

Feeling blue
How reliable a Tory will Geordie prove? Though he thinks Sir Keir Starmer is an improvement on his predecessor, the Labour Party is no longer relevant to his life. The local party caters to two exotic (and largely incompatible) groups of voters. It continues to draw support from the truly disadvantaged in old mining towns such as Ashington. But its biggest success is in Newcastle, particularly posh suburbs such as Tynemouth and Whitley Bay, to the east of the city, and Gosforth and Jesmond (birthplace of Viz), to the north, where the public-sector aristocracy (doctors married to lawyers, civil servants married to teachers) enjoys a life-style as plush as any in the country.

Geordie Tory certainly wants something in return for his vote. It is one of his articles of faith that the north-east is being short-changed by a southern England that simultaneously grabs an unfair share of national resources and produces nothing of value. (Geordies, regardless of their politics, are convinced that people who wear more than t-shirts and shorts in the depths of winter, as southerners tend to, are too “soft” to be productive.) But the truth is that Mr Johnson does not have to deliver all that much to be regarded as a success. The conversion of the a1 north of Morpeth into a dual carriageway, the restoration of the South-East Northumberland railway, a few high-profile projects that put cement mixers and excavators in the right places, and that should be enough. One of the greatest tricks in politics is to put yourself at the front of a victory parade and to declare yourself its leader. By a bizarre combination of circumstances, involving both Brexit and the long-term transformation of the Geordie economy, this is exactly what the quintessential southern Tory, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, seems to have done in the north-east.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/06/12/a-new-version-of-essex-man-is-born-in-the-north?

Witty Rejoinder said:

A new version of Essex man is born in the north
Meet Geordie Tory
Britain
Jun 12th 2021 edition

Viz, an idiosyncratic combination of adult comic and satirical magazine, has been compulsory reading in all civilised households since Chris Donald started producing it, in 1979, from his bedroom at his parents’ house in Newcastle. It features characters who go to the heart of modern Britain: Millie Tant, a ranting feminist; Sid the Sexist, who gives Millie plenty to rant about; Roger Mellie, a disgusting television personality; and dozens more whose names cannot be mentioned in a respectable newspaper. This columnist would like to suggest a new subject for Viz to lampoon: Geordie Tory. It seems odd, to say the least, for the north-east’s premier publication to remain silent about a political revolution that is turning a former Labour stronghold Tory blue.

The London-based commentariat has convinced itself that Geordie Tory is a left-behind loser who voted for a Brexit and Boris spit-roast to express his rage at globalisation. This is only a small part of the story. For the hidden truth about Geordie Tory is that he is actually doing rather well for himself. He did not go to university (thus avoiding a pile of student debt), but quickly found a job at a local firm, and his money goes much further in the north than it would in the south. He lives in a four-bedroomed semi-detached, has a couple of cars in the drive and can rely on two sets of grandparents to chip in with child care. He zips to work or Asda in a few minutes, thinks the local school is doing an acceptable job and looks forward to his next holiday in Florida, providing the government can stop faffing about. He pities his school friends who went to university, moved down south and now either live in a crowded flat or (before the covid-19 pandemic) spent a couple of hours a day on a packed train.

Geordie Tory’s world has been transformed by a combination of de-massification and bourgeoisification. The Labour Party’s power was based on industries (such as coal, steel and shipbuilding) and companies (such as Swan Hunters and Vickers-Armstrong) that employed thousands of unionised workers. The new economy is built on a combination of skills and flexibility. There is a handful of (mostly de-unionised) big companies (Flymo-Electrolux in Spennymoor, Cummins Engines in Darlington and Nissan in Sunderland), but they co-exist with hundreds of smaller firms that manufacture car parts, switch gears, air-conditioners and specialist equipment for the oil-and-gas economy. Twenty years ago towns such as Amble in Northumberland did not have much upmarket entertainment. Now they are so chock-a-block with restaurants, microbars and fancy cafés that the locals complain that you can’t find anywhere to park.

Geordie Tory has long been attracted by the Tory party’s pro-business, low-tax philosophy, but continued to vote Labour out of habit. Two things gave him permission to switch: Brexit and Jeremy Corbyn. Whether he voted for Brexit or not he was unhappy with attempts to overturn “the people’s will”. And the north-east is to Britain what the south is to America. It has provided the country with soldiers, sailors and airmen in numbers far exceeding its share of the population, and its landscape is littered with stone memorials to the fallen (South Shields lost a higher proportion of its citizens in the second world war than any other town). Geordie Tory was damned if he was going to vote for a man who mistook valour for warmongering and made excuses for the ira.

He is nevertheless far from being a defender of the government, let alone a Tory activist. He thinks about politics as little as possible, except when it impinges on his life. But something profound has changed in the past few years. The “sod you” factor that has always been such an important aspect of regional politics has found a new target. During Labour’s glory days from 1945 to the early 21st century the “sod you” factor favoured the left. The Tories were the party of the southern elite with its soft hands and namby-pamby ways. Today it favours the right. Geordie Tory doesn’t so much like Boris Johnson as loathe the Guardian-reading, Britain-bashing, virtue-signalling metropolitan establishment that holds Mr Johnson in contempt.

Feeling blue
How reliable a Tory will Geordie prove? Though he thinks Sir Keir Starmer is an improvement on his predecessor, the Labour Party is no longer relevant to his life. The local party caters to two exotic (and largely incompatible) groups of voters. It continues to draw support from the truly disadvantaged in old mining towns such as Ashington. But its biggest success is in Newcastle, particularly posh suburbs such as Tynemouth and Whitley Bay, to the east of the city, and Gosforth and Jesmond (birthplace of Viz), to the north, where the public-sector aristocracy (doctors married to lawyers, civil servants married to teachers) enjoys a life-style as plush as any in the country.

Geordie Tory certainly wants something in return for his vote. It is one of his articles of faith that the north-east is being short-changed by a southern England that simultaneously grabs an unfair share of national resources and produces nothing of value. (Geordies, regardless of their politics, are convinced that people who wear more than t-shirts and shorts in the depths of winter, as southerners tend to, are too “soft” to be productive.) But the truth is that Mr Johnson does not have to deliver all that much to be regarded as a success. The conversion of the a1 north of Morpeth into a dual carriageway, the restoration of the South-East Northumberland railway, a few high-profile projects that put cement mixers and excavators in the right places, and that should be enough. One of the greatest tricks in politics is to put yourself at the front of a victory parade and to declare yourself its leader. By a bizarre combination of circumstances, involving both Brexit and the long-term transformation of the Geordie economy, this is exactly what the quintessential southern Tory, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, seems to have done in the north-east.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/06/12/a-new-version-of-essex-man-is-born-in-the-north?

Viz did have one strip called The Male Online which nicely portrayed a typically nasty right-wing male Daily Mail reader.

The well awaited Batley and Spen byelection is on today. If labour lose another of the red wall seats then Starmer will be in for a hammering.

sibeen said:

The well awaited Batley and Spen byelection is on today. If labour lose another of the red wall seats then Starmer will be in for a hammering.

The Starmer / Rayner leadership brings to mind the grand old days of Rudd / Gilliard here. Some of the best TV ever produced that was :)

sibeen said:

The well awaited Batley and Spen byelection is on today. If labour lose another of the red wall seats then Starmer will be in for a hammering.

They got no chance of holding it. The right wing vote was split between Conservative and some indy, but between them they got more than Labour. The indy is not running this time.

Labour are in a bind. Starmer is afraid of taking a stand on any policy issue for fear of upsetting the applecart within his own party. His job is more than just putting in some tricky questions in parliament QT. But nobody watches that. He should be attacking the conservatives over all the broken promises, outright lies and economic damage from Brexit. Or doing the same over corrupt contracts from Covid. But he is afraid to do so.

The UK is going to collapse and he’ll be sitting quietly in the back seat not saying anything while Johnson drives it over a cliff.

One can only hope for a magical Lib-Dems revival. But by the time that happens the rump of the UK will be an impoverished shell of its former self, about the same as eastern European nations of a similar size.

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

The well awaited Batley and Spen byelection is on today. If labour lose another of the red wall seats then Starmer will be in for a hammering.

They got no chance of holding it. The right wing vote was split between Conservative and some indy, but between them they got more than Labour. The indy is not running this time.

Labour are in a bind. Starmer is afraid of taking a stand on any policy issue for fear of upsetting the applecart within his own party. His job is more than just putting in some tricky questions in parliament QT. But nobody watches that. He should be attacking the conservatives over all the broken promises, outright lies and economic damage from Brexit. Or doing the same over corrupt contracts from Covid. But he is afraid to do so.

The UK is going to collapse and he’ll be sitting quietly in the back seat not saying anything while Johnson drives it over a cliff.

One can only hope for a magical Lib-Dems revival. But by the time that happens the rump of the UK will be an impoverished shell of its former self, about the same as eastern European nations of a similar size.

Magical? It’d take way more than magic.

sibeen said:

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

The well awaited Batley and Spen byelection is on today. If labour lose another of the red wall seats then Starmer will be in for a hammering.

They got no chance of holding it. The right wing vote was split between Conservative and some indy, but between them they got more than Labour. The indy is not running this time.

Labour are in a bind. Starmer is afraid of taking a stand on any policy issue for fear of upsetting the applecart within his own party. His job is more than just putting in some tricky questions in parliament QT. But nobody watches that. He should be attacking the conservatives over all the broken promises, outright lies and economic damage from Brexit. Or doing the same over corrupt contracts from Covid. But he is afraid to do so.

The UK is going to collapse and he’ll be sitting quietly in the back seat not saying anything while Johnson drives it over a cliff.

One can only hope for a magical Lib-Dems revival. But by the time that happens the rump of the UK will be an impoverished shell of its former self, about the same as eastern European nations of a similar size.

Magical? It’d take way more than magic.

Is there a stronger metaphor than magic?

Labour could lose a by-election over the issue of Palestine
It is struggling to hold onto Muslim voters in Batley and Spen

Jun 24th 2021
BATLEY

George galloway is sitting in Starbucks, close to the abandoned nightclub that serves as his campaign base. “Fighting Labour is our number one target,” he declares. An mp for Labour before he was expelled in 2003, Mr Galloway is a political opportunist with a habit of causing trouble at tricky moments. He handed Labour surprise defeats in Bethnal Green and Bow in 2005, and Bradford West in 2012. On July 1st, standing in Batley and Spen for a new Workers Party of Britain (founded to “defend the achievements of the ussr, China, Cuba etc”), he may cause a third upset, albeit by splitting Labour’s vote rather than by winning himself.

Listen to this story
Enjoy more audio and podcasts on iOS or Android.

Labour has held the seat since 1997. The candidate, Kim Leadbeater, is the sister of Jo Cox, who was its mp until she was murdered in 2016 by a white-supremacist terrorist. Ms Leadbeater’s energy, charisma and work for the foundation set up in her sister’s memory are in her favour. But polling suggests rising support for the Conservatives. And much of Mr Galloway’s projected 6% vote share is likely to come from South-Asian Muslims who feel slighted and ignored by Labour.

The constituency is a complex mixture. The small, prosperous towns of Spen Valley largely vote Tory. Batley, by contrast, is an old mill town filled with working-class white and South-Asian Muslims. It is rundown, with many of the handsome sandstone buildings in the centre lying empty. Leave the centre, and cobbled streets give way to potholed tarmac. Locals complain about fly tipping, too few school places and the closure of Batley police station.

Such gripes usually harm incumbents—and Labour holds not just the constituency but also a plurality on the county council. Ms Leadbeater joined Labour only recently (she felt that party membership conflicted with her charity work), which may help neutralise the anti-incumbency effect. But it has also stirred resentments. Some local Muslims think a Labour candidate should have been chosen from among their community’s councillors. Some of those councillors are rumoured to be campaigning for Mr Galloway.

Inter-communal relations can be rocky. Residents, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, lament increasing self-segregation. Ms Cox was murdered by a white supremacist; far-right groups frequently demonstrate in the area and several are running in this election. In May a teacher at Batley Grammar School was forced into hiding by death threats after he showed a cartoon of the prophet Muhammad in a lesson on blasphemy. He is still in hiding.

Internal Labour politics do not help. Sir Keir Starmer, the party’s leader, has tried to tackle the anti-Semitism that flourished under Jeremy Corbyn, his predecessor. But many of Batley’s Muslims feel he has nothing to say about their grievances, or about Islamophobia. They are angered, too, by his refusal to condemn Israel’s recent bombing of Gaza.

All this is meat and drink to Mr Galloway, whose other pet cause, besides a fondness for anti-Western dictatorships, is Palestine. From 2012 to 2015 he was mp for nearby Bradford West, standing for the Respect Party, a coalition of far-left and Islamist groupuscules. He claims Muslims like him because he helped organise an aid convoy to Palestine in 2008-09, and more generally because of his pro-Palestinian stance and rhetoric.

Doubtless true, but Mr Galloway also evokes uglier sentiments. He once blamed a scandal on the “New York-Tel Aviv axis of evil”. Some of his supporters talk of the “powerful lobbies” that made Sir Keir party leader. Soon the words “Jewish” and “Zionist” are uttered, along with references to politicians “selling their souls” on the issue of Palestine.

Mr Galloway promises his supporters that a defeat for Labour in Batley and Spen will force Sir Keir to step down as party leader. That may be an exaggeration. But there is no doubt that another loss, after Labour’s shock defeat in a by-election in May in Hartlepool, which elected its first-ever Conservative mp, would seriously damage Sir Keir. Hartlepool was one of the “Red Wall” constituencies across the middle and north of England that used to vote Labour, but plumped for Brexit in 2016 and are now tilting Conservative.

That loss emphasised how hard it will be for Labour to keep both the northern, pro-Brexit working class and the southern, anti-Brexit graduates it needs to have any chance in a general election. Losing Batley and Spen would be a sign that a modest but important part of Labour’s multi-ethnic coalition is also at risk. In this constituency and perhaps others, Israel, Palestine and anti-Semitism may function like Brexit: as a wedge issue that prises off one group of traditional Labour voters, stirring up dangerous divisions in the process.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/06/24/labour-could-lose-a-by-election-over-the-issue-of-palestine

From Witty’s post:

Locals complain about fly tipping,

I had to look that up; it means illegal dumping.

There seems to be a shortage of truck drivers in the UK.

Much of the driver pool seems to have been from the EU, when trucks moved in and out freely. Add Covid on top of this. Many EU drivers have gone home and not returned. In order to return they now have to apply for visas and they just can’t be arsed. So there is a shortage of drivers in the domestic market of the UK.

Haulage firms and supermarkets are screaming at the government to put heavy goods vehicle drivers on the list for skilled occupations in shortage so as to fast track the visa application process. But so far the government is refusing to do this because it looks like letting in lots of johnny foreigners from eastern Europe – which is what Brexit was all about for many voters.

party_pants said:

There seems to be a shortage of truck drivers in the UK.

Much of the driver pool seems to have been from the EU, when trucks moved in and out freely. Add Covid on top of this. Many EU drivers have gone home and not returned. In order to return they now have to apply for visas and they just can’t be arsed. So there is a shortage of drivers in the domestic market of the UK.

Haulage firms and supermarkets are screaming at the government to put heavy goods vehicle drivers on the list for skilled occupations in shortage so as to fast track the visa application process. But so far the government is refusing to do this because it looks like letting in lots of johnny foreigners from eastern Europe – which is what Brexit was all about for many voters.

It’s such a train-wreck.

Witty Rejoinder said:

party_pants said:

There seems to be a shortage of truck drivers in the UK.

Much of the driver pool seems to have been from the EU, when trucks moved in and out freely. Add Covid on top of this. Many EU drivers have gone home and not returned. In order to return they now have to apply for visas and they just can’t be arsed. So there is a shortage of drivers in the domestic market of the UK.

Haulage firms and supermarkets are screaming at the government to put heavy goods vehicle drivers on the list for skilled occupations in shortage so as to fast track the visa application process. But so far the government is refusing to do this because it looks like letting in lots of johnny foreigners from eastern Europe – which is what Brexit was all about for many voters.

It’s such a train-wreck.

I know. I can’t turn away, I must watch.

Labour candidate Kim Leadbeater wins narrow victory in Batley and Spen byelection

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/02/labour-candidate-kim-leadbeater-wins-batley-and-spen-byelection

About 300 votes in it with turnout below 50%.

sibeen said:

Labour candidate Kim Leadbeater wins narrow victory in Batley and Spen byelection

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/02/labour-candidate-kim-leadbeater-wins-batley-and-spen-byelection

About 300 votes in it with turnout below 50%.

Fitting name.

sibeen said:

Labour candidate Kim Leadbeater wins narrow victory in Batley and Spen byelection

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/02/labour-candidate-kim-leadbeater-wins-batley-and-spen-byelection

About 300 votes in it with turnout below 50%.

he could have just played possum and won I reckon.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Labour candidate Kim Leadbeater wins narrow victory in Batley and Spen byelection

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/02/labour-candidate-kim-leadbeater-wins-batley-and-spen-byelection

About 300 votes in it with turnout below 50%.

he could have just played possum and won I reckon.

She. The sister of murdered Labour MP Jo Cox, who used to hold the seat.

Bubblecar said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Labour candidate Kim Leadbeater wins narrow victory in Batley and Spen byelection

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/02/labour-candidate-kim-leadbeater-wins-batley-and-spen-byelection

About 300 votes in it with turnout below 50%.

he could have just played possum and won I reckon.

She. The sister of murdered Labour MP Jo Cox, who used to hold the seat.

enough of this gendered pronoun nonsense what does it matter anyway

Teen Wins Libel Case Against Tommy Robinson, U.K. Far-Right Activist

Mr. Robinson had been taken to court after making accusations against a Syrian teenager who was violently attacked by classmates on video.

LONDON — Tommy Robinson, a British far-right activist, lost a libel case on Thursday filed by a Syrian teenager who had been filmed being attacked at his school, after Mr. Robinson falsely claimed the boy had himself violently attacked classmates.

Mr. Robinson will be required to pay 100,000 pounds in damages, around $137,000, according to the judgment handed down by Justice Matthew Nicklin during a remote court session in London’s High Court of Justice.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/22/world/europe/tommy-robinson-libel-case.html

dv said:

Teen Wins Libel Case Against Tommy Robinson, U.K. Far-Right Activist

Mr. Robinson had been taken to court after making accusations against a Syrian teenager who was violently attacked by classmates on video.

LONDON — Tommy Robinson, a British far-right activist, lost a libel case on Thursday filed by a Syrian teenager who had been filmed being attacked at his school, after Mr. Robinson falsely claimed the boy had himself violently attacked classmates.

Mr. Robinson will be required to pay 100,000 pounds in damages, around $137,000, according to the judgment handed down by Justice Matthew Nicklin during a remote court session in London’s High Court of Justice.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/22/world/europe/tommy-robinson-libel-case.html

Suck on that, “Tommy”.

dv said:

Teen Wins Libel Case Against Tommy Robinson, U.K. Far-Right Activist

Mr. Robinson had been taken to court after making accusations against a Syrian teenager who was violently attacked by classmates on video.

LONDON — Tommy Robinson, a British far-right activist, lost a libel case on Thursday filed by a Syrian teenager who had been filmed being attacked at his school, after Mr. Robinson falsely claimed the boy had himself violently attacked classmates.

Mr. Robinson will be required to pay 100,000 pounds in damages, around $137,000, according to the judgment handed down by Justice Matthew Nicklin during a remote court session in London’s High Court of Justice.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/22/world/europe/tommy-robinson-libel-case.html

He’ll probably end up with about 200 after legal fees, and then get beaten up for the money by the same bullies.

dv said:

good.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/09/queen-supports-black-lives-matter-says-senior-royal-representative

The Queen and the royal family are supporters of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement, one of the monarch’s representatives has said.

Sir Ken Olisa, the first black Lord-Lieutenant for London, revealed to Channel 4 that he had discussed the topic of racism with members of the royal household in the wake of George Floyd’s murder in the US.

In an interview with the broadcaster, he said: “I have discussed with the royal household this whole issue of race, particularly in the last 12 months since the George Floyd incident.

Britain’s Prince Andrew has been served with a lawsuit by a woman accusing him of sexually assaulting and battering her two decades ago, when she said she was also being abused by the financier Jeffrey Epstein, according to a court filing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-11/prince-andrew-served-with-sexual-assault-lawsuit-/100454152

What a weird fellow

Conservatives are still in a winning position in the polls.

I just hope Labor and LibDem can at some point suck up their pride and do a strategic deal because otherwise the Cons can probably coast to power forever on 40% due to first past the post voting.

dv said:

Conservatives are still in a winning position in the polls.

I just hope Labor and LibDem can at some point suck up their pride and do a strategic deal because otherwise the Cons can probably coast to power forever on 40% due to first past the post voting.

Labour has to do what the ALP has to do: stop trying to show the conservative parties what terrific conservative MPs and ministers they’d be if they’d chosen to join a conservative party.

As well as remembering that they’re supposed to be the Labour/Labor party and not the other conservative party, they’d need to take any coalition with the LibDems/Greens seriously, adopt and pursue at least some of their partner’s goals, and not treat them as inconsequential once the election is over.

The Labour deputy leader, Angela Rayner, has privately expressed anger at the departure of Andy McDonald after he launched a major policy on workers’ rights with her.

McDonald resigned as shadow employment minister on Monday, describing tensions with the leadership that culminated in his refusal to argue against a £15 minimum wage in a meeting with union officials.

On Tuesday afternoon, Labour members will vote on a motion at conference which includes the demand for a £15 minimum wage, as well as condemning fire-and-rehire practices.

It is understood the Labour leadership will not attempt to block the vote, but a Momentum source said it would show the leader, Keir Starmer, was “increasingly isolated in his opposition to a significant minimum wage increase”, adding: “It’s hard to avoid the conclusion his conference is going from bad to worse.”

In his resignation letter to Starmer, McDonald said his role had become untenable and added: “After 18 months of your leadership our movement is more divided than ever and the pledges you made to the membership are not being honoured.”

He said he had been “instructed to go into a meeting and argue against a national minimum wage of £15 an hour and against statutory sick pay at the living wage. This is something I could not do.”

Thomas-Symonds said Starmer was trying to set a very firm direction for the party. “It isn’t about defeating different bits of the party, the party has always been a broad church, but what we are doing is showing a very firm sense of direction under our new leadership,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“Keir has shown that very strong sense of direction this week, he has got the rule changes through and we will be getting those policies out to the country now as well.”

—-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/28/angela-rayner-angered-by-andy-mcdonalds-resignation

More Than Half of Met Police OfficersFound Guilty Of Sexual Misconduct Kept their Jobs

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/20/more-than-half-of-met-police-officers-found-guilty-of-sexual-misconduct-kept-their-jobs/

dv said:

More Than Half of Met Police OfficersFound Guilty Of Sexual Misconduct Kept their Jobs

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/20/more-than-half-of-met-police-officers-found-guilty-of-sexual-misconduct-kept-their-jobs/

:(

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

More Than Half of Met Police OfficersFound Guilty Of Sexual Misconduct Kept their Jobs

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/20/more-than-half-of-met-police-officers-found-guilty-of-sexual-misconduct-kept-their-jobs/

:(

I saw that headline (no, I didn’t read the piece), and wondered if that was 2 out of 3 (ie, there aren’t all that many) or if there are great numbers of Met Officers found Guilty of Sexual Misconduct.

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

More Than Half of Met Police OfficersFound Guilty Of Sexual Misconduct Kept their Jobs

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/20/more-than-half-of-met-police-officers-found-guilty-of-sexual-misconduct-kept-their-jobs/

:(

I saw that headline (no, I didn’t read the piece), and wondered if that was 2 out of 3 (ie, there aren’t all that many) or if there are great numbers of Met Officers found Guilty of Sexual Misconduct.

If only it were possible for you to read the article to find out.

dv said:

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

:(

I saw that headline (no, I didn’t read the piece), and wondered if that was 2 out of 3 (ie, there aren’t all that many) or if there are great numbers of Met Officers found Guilty of Sexual Misconduct.

If only it were possible for you to read the article to find out.

I’ve never heard of bylinetimes. Could be anyone.

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

I saw that headline (no, I didn’t read the piece), and wondered if that was 2 out of 3 (ie, there aren’t all that many) or if there are great numbers of Met Officers found Guilty of Sexual Misconduct.

If only it were possible for you to read the article to find out.

I’ve never heard of bylinetimes. Could be anyone.

It started off as a group of regional newspapers in England. Sort of developed with the digital age into an independent online news outlet, expanding into video content and mini documentaries. Now I think it about to (or just has) launch a TV channel.

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Kingy said:

How is that possibly legal?

Just because the Abbott Govt made up the rules as they went along?

In fairness the government’s job is to legislate, and we don’t have a bill of rights limiting the government’s ability to enforce religion. In Westminster systems the parliament is supreme.

state capture is pretty neat

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/01/boris-johnson-rigging-the-system-power-courts-protest-elections

Fascists are crooks, surprise surprise.

Tories facing calls to return cash from donors named in Pandora papers

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/04/tories-facing-calls-to-return-cash-from-donors-named-in-pandora-papers

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/06/uk/boris-johnson-crises-party-conference-intl-cmd/index.html

Inside Boris Johnson’s post-Brexit bubble, where he’s king of his party but cut off from reality

Manchester, England (CNN)Boris Johnson should be in trouble. There are very real challenges to everyday life unfolding all over Britain.

Drivers have been lining up at gas stations hoping to fill their cars, something made difficult by widespread fuel shortages. There are fears that that the cost of heating is about to surge, that more people will financially struggle to feed themselves, and that labor shortages will threaten food supplies at Christmas.
And on the island of Ireland, there is legitimate concern that the British government is about to suspend part of the Brexit deal that prevents tension between the north and south.
The fuel crisis was caused by a lack of truck drivers, a situation partially due to the Brexit that Johnson campaigned for. And there is plenty of evidence that the Prime Minister could have taken decisions months ago that would have avoided many of the wider problems.

It stands to reason that the buck stops with the UK leader, and he should be under enormous pressure from his own supporters to fix things and keep the public happy.
However, Johnson has proven time and again that, for him, the rules of conventional politics simply do not apply.
His party faithful have gathered in the city of Manchester this week for the first time since Johnson won a landslide election, “got Brexit done” and ended Covid-19 restrictions in the United Kingdom. The mood here is celebratory.

Whatever is happening to citizens out there in the real world, the giddy bubble of the Conservative Party conference isn’t just ignoring these myriad crises because they are inconvenient. The truth is that neither Johnson nor his party are under any real political pressure or suffering any consequences — despite being responsible for many of these issues.
Rather than reflect on the pandemic, considering ways to mitigate the impact Brexit is having on the economy or worrying about the opposition Labour party capitalizing on Johnson’s blunders, Conservative party members appear to be making up for two years of being unable to celebrate Johnson’s success.

supposedly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster

SCIENCE said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster

I remember that.

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster

I remember that.

Me too.

I wonder if there was a reason SCIENCE chose to remind us?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster

I remember that.

Me too.

I wonder if there was a reason SCIENCE chose to remind us?

infinity.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

I remember that.

Me too.

I wonder if there was a reason SCIENCE chose to remind us?

infinity.

I see.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

SCIENCE said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster

I remember that.

Me too.

I wonder if there was a reason SCIENCE chose to remind us?

He’s beyond reason

https://www.etymonline.com/word/tory

Tory (n.)

1566, “an outlaw,” specifically “one of a class of Irish robbers noted for outrages and savage cruelty,” from Irish toruighe “plunderer,” originally “pursuer, searcher,” from Old Irish toirighim “I pursue,” from toir “pursuit,” from Celtic *to-wo-ret- “a running up to,” from PIE root *ret- “to run, roll” (see rotary).

About 1646, it emerged as a derogatory term for Irish Catholics dispossessed of their land (some of whom subsequently turned to outlawry); c. 1680 applied by Exclusioners to supporters of the Catholic Duke of York (later James II) in his succession to the throne of England. After 1689, Tory was the name of a British political party at first composed of Yorkist Tories of 1680. Superseded c. 1830 by Conservative, though it continues to be used colloquially. As an adjective from 1680s. In American history, Tory was the name given after 1769 to colonists who remained loyal to the crown; it represents their relative position in the pre-revolutionary English political order in the colonies.

A Tory has been properly defined to be a traitor in thought, but not in deed. The only description, by which the laws have endeavoured to come at them, was that of non-jurors, or persons refusing to take the oath of fidelity to the state.

I didn’t know that.

The meaning has not changed then.

:)

we apologise we were just a little late, retarded if you like, to the catastrophic collapse of a colliery spoil tip on 21 October

Laugh Out Loud

well at least it means a more compassionate corrections approach

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-10-20/low-level-offenders-driving-lorries-on-day-release-in-bid-to-help-hgv-shortage

SCIENCE said:

JFC…

the BBC could scarcely have been more pro-Boris at the last election. They just straight refused to cover scandals that overseas and independent outlets were reporting.

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

JFC…

the BBC could scarcely have been more pro-Boris at the last election. They just straight refused to cover scandals that overseas and independent outlets were reporting.

Nearly all the British media has been complicit in promoting Brexit. It is a great national lack of self-awareness. Lots of experts predicted this would happen, the experts were right (surprise). There is still a large section of the country in self denial about what they’ve gone and done. A few are starting to speak out, but nobody likes to hear an “I told you so” even if, or especially if, they were told and exactly the predicted thing is coming to pass.

Thing is they are going to be stuck with it. The relationship between the Tory government and the EU is so bitter now that the EU might not want the UK back, even if it is just re-joining the EU Customs area without all the rest of full membership.

party_pants said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

JFC…

the BBC could scarcely have been more pro-Boris at the last election. They just straight refused to cover scandals that overseas and independent outlets were reporting.

Nearly all the British media has been complicit in promoting Brexit. It is a great national lack of self-awareness. Lots of experts predicted this would happen, the experts were right (surprise). There is still a large section of the country in self denial about what they’ve gone and done. A few are starting to speak out, but nobody likes to hear an “I told you so” even if, or especially if, they were told and exactly the predicted thing is coming to pass.

Thing is they are going to be stuck with it. The relationship between the Tory government and the EU is so bitter now that the EU might not want the UK back, even if it is just re-joining the EU Customs area without all the rest of full membership.

Just don’t mention the war…

De Gaulle vetoed Britain’s entry into the EU for many years, in payback for them not recognising him as the legitimate leader of the French govt-in-exile during WW2, and not according him suitable significance/importance.

If the French were to be reminded of that and other ‘slights’ by Britain, they’d never have a chance of any EU concessions.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

JFC…

the BBC could scarcely have been more pro-Boris at the last election. They just straight refused to cover scandals that overseas and independent outlets were reporting.

Nearly all the British media has been complicit in promoting Brexit. It is a great national lack of self-awareness. Lots of experts predicted this would happen, the experts were right (surprise). There is still a large section of the country in self denial about what they’ve gone and done. A few are starting to speak out, but nobody likes to hear an “I told you so” even if, or especially if, they were told and exactly the predicted thing is coming to pass.

Thing is they are going to be stuck with it. The relationship between the Tory government and the EU is so bitter now that the EU might not want the UK back, even if it is just re-joining the EU Customs area without all the rest of full membership.

Just don’t mention the war…

De Gaulle vetoed Britain’s entry into the EU for many years, in payback for them not recognising him as the legitimate leader of the French govt-in-exile during WW2, and not according him suitable significance/importance.

If the French were to be reminded of that and other ‘slights’ by Britain, they’d never have a chance of any EU concessions.

Come World War III the Russians can roll right up to the UK and stop at the French coastline

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

JFC…

the BBC could scarcely have been more pro-Boris at the last election. They just straight refused to cover scandals that overseas and independent outlets were reporting.

Nearly all the British media has been complicit in promoting Brexit. It is a great national lack of self-awareness. Lots of experts predicted this would happen, the experts were right (surprise). There is still a large section of the country in self denial about what they’ve gone and done. A few are starting to speak out, but nobody likes to hear an “I told you so” even if, or especially if, they were told and exactly the predicted thing is coming to pass.

Thing is they are going to be stuck with it. The relationship between the Tory government and the EU is so bitter now that the EU might not want the UK back, even if it is just re-joining the EU Customs area without all the rest of full membership.

Just don’t mention the war…

De Gaulle vetoed Britain’s entry into the EU for many years, in payback for them not recognising him as the legitimate leader of the French govt-in-exile during WW2, and not according him suitable significance/importance.

If the French were to be reminded of that and other ‘slights’ by Britain, they’d never have a chance of any EU concessions.

The French are not easy to work with either. But really, the British arrogance is just about on the same level as the French. Maybe the EU was never going to work with both of them in it.

party_pants said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

JFC…

the BBC could scarcely have been more pro-Boris at the last election. They just straight refused to cover scandals that overseas and independent outlets were reporting.

Nearly all the British media has been complicit in promoting Brexit. It is a great national lack of self-awareness. Lots of experts predicted this would happen, the experts were right (surprise). There is still a large section of the country in self denial about what they’ve gone and done. A few are starting to speak out, but nobody likes to hear an “I told you so” even if, or especially if, they were told and exactly the predicted thing is coming to pass.

Thing is they are going to be stuck with it. The relationship between the Tory government and the EU is so bitter now that the EU might not want the UK back, even if it is just re-joining the EU Customs area without all the rest of full membership.

The Scottish Independence people also said the BBC hammered the NO vote.

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

JFC…

the BBC could scarcely have been more pro-Boris at the last election. They just straight refused to cover scandals that overseas and independent outlets were reporting.

Nearly all the British media has been complicit in promoting Brexit. It is a great national lack of self-awareness. Lots of experts predicted this would happen, the experts were right (surprise). There is still a large section of the country in self denial about what they’ve gone and done. A few are starting to speak out, but nobody likes to hear an “I told you so” even if, or especially if, they were told and exactly the predicted thing is coming to pass.

Thing is they are going to be stuck with it. The relationship between the Tory government and the EU is so bitter now that the EU might not want the UK back, even if it is just re-joining the EU Customs area without all the rest of full membership.

The Scottish Independence people also said the BBC hammered the NO vote.

As they are the British Broadcasting Corporation I’m not surprised.

https://www.ft.com/content/e37e2944-da21-4a2c-af16-9b5c0b70d4eb

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It was there in 2014.

sarahs mum said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It was there in 2014.

There we are then.

2 bits of independent observational evidence from reliable first hand sources.

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

Yorkshire is a state of mind…

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It was there in 2014.

There we are then.

2 bits of independent observational evidence from reliable first hand sources.

Phew!

I was, very briefly, in this so-called “Yorkshire” in 1994

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

Had a quick look :)

I’ve had roast beef and the former Yorkshire pudding with gravy and vegetables.
I think it was at the Dog and Duck about 50 years ago.

Duttons for Buttons at 32 Coppergate, York is housed in a medieval building built in 1422. It was part of the home of William of Alne, a wealthy York merchant and one-time Lord Mayor of York.

The house’s many original features can still be seen, including its jettied frontage, its timber-framed wattle and daub walls and its magnificent timbered roof structure, found in the 1980s behind a false ceiling of polystyrene tiles. In 2019, the building’s exterior was extensively and sensitively restored and refurbished.

The boundaries between Yorkshire, Cheshire and Lancashire seems particularly arbitrary, running as they do straight through the Mancunian metropolis.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

Re ridings being about thirds. My Scottish cousins perform the ridings by riding horses around the local boundaries.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

Re ridings being about thirds. My Scottish cousins perform the ridings by riding horses around the local boundaries.

An active pun and fresh air

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

Re ridings being about thirds. My Scottish cousins perform the ridings by riding horses around the local boundaries.

A common riding is an equestrian tradition mainly in the Scottish Borders in Scotland. Typically male riders ride out of the town and along its borders to commemorate the practice from 13th and 15th centuries where there were frequent raids on the Anglo-Scottish border known as the Border Reivers and also to commemorate the Scottish defeat at the Battle of Flodden. Today, the common ridings, rideouts, or riding of the marches continue to be annual events celebrated in the summer in the Borders of Scotland. Each town may have many rideouts over their festival week, usually having one on festival day. Some towns re-enact historic ‘common ridings’ – although many others have well-established ‘festival rides’ that are cemented within their town’s history. The common riding towns are: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Hawick, Selkirk, Langholm, Jedburgh, Coldstream, West Linton, Lanark, Lauder, Edinburgh, Melrose, Musselburgh, Galashiels, Duns, and Peebles.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

Middlesex no longer exists.

Michael V said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

Middlesex no longer exists.

Bloody terfs

dv said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

Middlesex no longer exists.

Bloody terfs

Yeah.

Middlesex is where my mother was born. Ruislip, Mx.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/hCc0OsyMbQk
Does Yorkshire exist?

I’m going to say yes, although I haven’t actually seen it for at least 45 years.

It’s an entertaining and interesting video about counties

thank you. Enjoyed.

dv said:

I was, very briefly, in this so-called “Yorkshire” in 1994

I have been in it a few times. My Mum was even born there.

Boris said:

dv said:

I was, very briefly, in this so-called “Yorkshire” in 1994

I have been in it a few times. My Mum was even born there.

Give us some evidence that your Mum existed.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Boris said:

dv said:

I was, very briefly, in this so-called “Yorkshire” in 1994

I have been in it a few times. My Mum was even born there.

Give us some evidence that your Mum existed.

Boris said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Boris said:

I have been in it a few times. My Mum was even born there.

Give us some evidence that your Mum existed.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Boris said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Give us some evidence that your Mum existed.

:-)

Be careful what you ask for.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Boris said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Give us some evidence that your Mum existed.

At least he doesn’t have an umbilical hernia, like some people I could name.

Boris said:

dv said:

I was, very briefly, in this so-called “Yorkshire” in 1994

I have been in it a few times. My Mum was even born there.

Michael Parkinson’s dad was keen that his grandchild be born in Yorkshire.

So keen that he drove Michael’s pregnant wife across the Pennines on a stormy night so that the child was born in Yorkshire.

His motive? So that, if it was a boy, the child could grow up to one day play cricket for Yorkshire.

dv said:

been done before no big deal

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

been done before no big deal

we mean sanitation only fixed cholera but hey why filter air to stop COVID-19 so why not get back to drinking sewage

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

been done before no big deal

Maybe all this is what British people like these days and I should respect their culture

dv said:

Yes. And economics experts told them that Brexit was going to be a shit show.

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

been done before no big deal

Maybe all this is what British people like these days and I should respect their culture

hey we’re sitting here drinking a cup of warm brown liquid at the moment so what of it

party_pants said:

dv said:

Yes. And economics experts told them that Brexit was going to be a shit show.

So they knew it would fuck The Economy Must Grow but it would keep the dirty foreigners out, so they Brexit.

And then they refused to suppress the pandemic because The Economy Must Grow, and so they let dirty foreigners in as well.

…

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

Yes. And economics experts told them that Brexit was going to be a shit show.

So they knew it would fuck The Economy Must Grow but it would keep the dirty foreigners out, so they Brexit.

And then they refused to suppress the pandemic because The Economy Must Grow, and so they let dirty foreigners in as well.

…

critical thinking is not mainstream in the UK.

Not really in mainstream in most western democracies TBH. The French, The Americans are also mostly fuckwits. We’ve got plenty here too.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

Yes. And economics experts told them that Brexit was going to be a shit show.

So they knew it would fuck The Economy Must Grow but it would keep the dirty foreigners out, so they Brexit.

And then they refused to suppress the pandemic because The Economy Must Grow, and so they let dirty foreigners in as well.

…

critical thinking is not mainstream in the UK.

Not really in mainstream in most western democracies TBH. The French, The Americans are also mostly fuckwits. We’ve got plenty here too.

It’s almost like the variation between the people of any given country is far greater than the variation of the population averages between countries.

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

Yes. And economics experts told them that Brexit was going to be a shit show.

So they knew it would fuck The Economy Must Grow but it would keep the dirty foreigners out, so they Brexit.

And then they refused to suppress the pandemic because The Economy Must Grow, and so they let dirty foreigners in as well.

…

party_pants said:

dv said:

Yes. And economics experts told them that Brexit was going to be a shit show.

Nice

dv said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

Yes. And economics experts told them that Brexit was going to be a shit show.

Nice

They can’t stop the dumping of shit in the rivers unless they stop the people shitting.

There is a shortage of chemicals necessary for treating the waste water before it gets released. The UK were not self-sufficient in these chemicals, they mostly came from the EU. There is a shortage of drivers willing to take cargoes from the EU to the UK. There is a shipping crisis for obtaining supplies from North America or east Asia. So they have toi do without and dump untreated water.

https://fb.watch/90wr2ue7vX/

Queen’s address for COP26

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/02/tories-set-to-try-to-overturn-findings-of-owen-paterson-lobbying-inquiry

to be fair corruption is probably acceptable if it at least owns the lib’s

SCIENCE said:

Fuck ‘em. They keep voting Tory. The English voters don’t mind being ripped off and abused, as long as it is by their own kind and not by some dreadful foreigner.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/10/keir-starmer-did-legal-work-on-top-of-his-job-as-mp-records-show

What a naughty, naughty boy.

have they Planted another Pick from the Populist Playbook, take control of the media and drag any independent into the spiral

The Patients Association has written to health secretary Sajid Javid calling on him to make a request for military aid under the Civil Contingencies Act to bring soldiers back onto the frontline of the NHS.

dv said:

And verily all the lesbian bars were swamped by men in dresses.

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

And verily all the lesbian bars were swamped by men in dresses.

Yes I remember when that happened

dv said:

False comparison and Blair is correct, whether you agree with Wokery or not.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

False comparison and Blair is correct, whether you agree with Wokery or not.

“Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is an adjective meaning ‘alert to racial prejudice and discrimination’ that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.”

(Shrugs)

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

False comparison and Blair is correct, whether you agree with Wokery or not.

“Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is an adjective meaning ‘alert to racial prejudice and discrimination’ that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.”

(Shrugs)

It’s also connected with a lot of irrational nonsense that even many on the left increasingly reject.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

False comparison and Blair is correct, whether you agree with Wokery or not.

“Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is an adjective meaning ‘alert to racial prejudice and discrimination’ that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.”

(Shrugs)

It’s also connected with a lot of irrational nonsense that even many on the left increasingly reject.

You could say that of just about everything worth supporting.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

“Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is an adjective meaning ‘alert to racial prejudice and discrimination’ that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.”

(Shrugs)

It’s also connected with a lot of irrational nonsense that even many on the left increasingly reject.

You could say that of just about everything worth supporting.

I was thinking the same.

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s also connected with a lot of irrational nonsense that even many on the left increasingly reject.

You could say that of just about everything worth supporting.

I was thinking the same.

ponders

Boris is also connected with a lot of irrational nonsense that even many on the left increasingly reject.

You’re right.

Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You could say that of just about everything worth supporting.

I was thinking the same.

ponders

Boris is also connected with a lot of irrational nonsense that even many on the left increasingly reject.

You’re right.

admit it, you love my nonsense.

sorry if repost

In ‘totally normal’ Britain, cocaine use reported in Parliament while PM goes on police drug raid

London: The speaker of the House of Commons has said he is calling in police to investigate reports that drug use is “rife” in the British Parliament. It comes as Prime Minister Boris Johnson dressed up as a police officer to promote his tough new anti-drug strategy for the country.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/british-police-contacted-over-report-of-cocaine-use-in-parliament-20211207-p59fcr.html

seems like the usuka triumvirate of clowns are all full of the same shit

dv said:

LOLOLOLOLOL

:)

Michael V said:

dv said:

LOLOLOLOLOL

:)

I have never actually tried organise a piss-up in a brewery. Wonder how I’d go if I tried.

https://www.survation.com/new-political-polling-shows-a-collapse-in-public-opinion-for-boris-johnson-the-conservative-party-and-government/

Shit eh, when the dam cracks it breaks

dv said:

https://www.survation.com/new-political-polling-shows-a-collapse-in-public-opinion-for-boris-johnson-the-conservative-party-and-government/

Shit eh, when the dam cracks it breaks

Still, the next election is 2 years away.

The Tories have lost the North Shropshire by-election to the Lib-Dems. An arch conservative safe seat with a comfortable margin for the last 30 years.

party_pants said:

The Tories have lost the North Shropshire by-election to the Lib-Dems. An arch conservative safe seat with a comfortable margin for the last 30 years.

I suppose we ought to be glad the Tories lost a seat, but the Lib-Dems are basically time-&-space wasters.

They’re saying this may help the Tories give Boris the boot, but are any of the other likely contenders significantly less shitty?

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

The Tories have lost the North Shropshire by-election to the Lib-Dems. An arch conservative safe seat with a comfortable margin for the last 30 years.

I suppose we ought to be glad the Tories lost a seat, but the Lib-Dems are basically time-&-space wasters.

As a tactical election move, Labour and the Lib-Dems should strike a deal not to campaign too hard against each other. In some conservative held seats the Lib-Dems might be a palatable option for fed-up Tory voters who would never ever vote Labour. I don’t see Labour winning a majority in their own right any time soon, so a coalition government between Labour and Lib-Dems might be on the cards.

Bubblecar said:

They’re saying this may help the Tories give Boris the boot, but are any of the other likely contenders significantly less shitty?

There are plenty who would be more competent, but they all have that upper middle-class persona that does not connect well with ordinary people. So many people seemed attracted to Boris Johnson’s eccentric and buffoonish persona (for reasons I can’t explain). Now they are seeing him for the man he really is the scene is about to change.

BoJo really is a hopeless daft-arse 0.0001 percenter but replacing him with another tory isn’t going to fix any substantial problem

UK-Australia trade deal is more golden duck than golden goose

Analysis: In purely economic terms the first post-Brexit trade deal negotiated from scratch will save each UK household £1 a year

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/17/uk-australia-trade-deal-is-more-golden-duck-than-golden-goose

Bubblecar said:

UK-Australia trade deal is more golden duck than golden goose

Analysis: In purely economic terms the first post-Brexit trade deal negotiated from scratch will save each UK household £1 a year

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/17/uk-australia-trade-deal-is-more-golden-duck-than-golden-goose

Jammy bastards.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-17/uk-conservatives-lose-seat-for-the-first-time-in-over-200-years/100710860

It’s saddening how quickly people just accept that things are worse or perhaps just straight forget that things were better. It was just nuts when people were running fundraising drives for the NHS, like it’s a fucking charity rather than a basic function of government. Today the number 1 song in the UK is a charity single to raise funds for Trussel Trust food banks… in the UK. I’m old enough to remember when the UK artists would do singles to alleviate hunger in the third world, not down the street.

The number of food banks in the UK has gone berserk in the last decade as austerity has become a permanent feature of the economy.

dv said:

It’s saddening how quickly people just accept that things are worse or perhaps just straight forget that things were better. It was just nuts when people were running fundraising drives for the NHS, like it’s a fucking charity rather than a basic function of government. Today the number 1 song in the UK is a charity single to raise funds for Trussel Trust food banks… in the UK. I’m old enough to remember when the UK artists would do singles to alleviate hunger in the third world, not down the street.

The number of food banks in the UK has gone berserk in the last decade as austerity has become a permanent feature of the economy.

what you said.

And we don’t need that here even though that seems to be what they want to happen here.

dv said:

It’s saddening how quickly people just accept that things are worse or perhaps just straight forget that things were better. It was just nuts when people were running fundraising drives for the NHS, like it’s a fucking charity rather than a basic function of government. Today the number 1 song in the UK is a charity single to raise funds for Trussel Trust food banks… in the UK. I’m old enough to remember when the UK artists would do singles to alleviate hunger in the third world, not down the street.

The number of food banks in the UK has gone berserk in the last decade as austerity has become a permanent feature of the economy.

The Trussell Trust is an NGO and charity that works to end the need for food banks in the UK. It supports a network of over 1,200 food bank centres to provide emergency food and compassionate, practical support to people in crisis, while campaigning for long-term change to the structural issues that lock people into poverty.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

It’s saddening how quickly people just accept that things are worse or perhaps just straight forget that things were better. It was just nuts when people were running fundraising drives for the NHS, like it’s a fucking charity rather than a basic function of government. Today the number 1 song in the UK is a charity single to raise funds for Trussel Trust food banks… in the UK. I’m old enough to remember when the UK artists would do singles to alleviate hunger in the third world, not down the street.

The number of food banks in the UK has gone berserk in the last decade as austerity has become a permanent feature of the economy.

The Trussell Trust is an NGO and charity that works to end the need for food banks in the UK. It supports a network of over 1,200 food bank centres to provide emergency food and compassionate, practical support to people in crisis, while campaigning for long-term change to the structural issues that lock people into poverty.

Correct

dv said:

It’s saddening how quickly people just accept that things are worse or perhaps just straight forget that things were better. It was just nuts when people were running fundraising drives for the NHS, like it’s a fucking charity rather than a basic function of government. Today the number 1 song in the UK is a charity single to raise funds for Trussel Trust food banks… in the UK. I’m old enough to remember when the UK artists would do singles to alleviate hunger in the third world, not down the street.

The number of food banks in the UK has gone berserk in the last decade as austerity has become a permanent feature of the economy.

Poverty levels in the UK have remained steady or declined depending on what metrics you use, there is nothing in official figures to support a conclusion that because a single food bank is giving out more that it is representative of the big picture.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07096/SN07096.pdf

Peak Warming Man said:

“because a single food bank is giving out more “

Nope, it’s not just a problem of one food bank, the entire industry has increased over 2000% since 2010. Kind of disenguenous for the UK government report that you provided to gloss over that but not surprising I suppose.

Until about 2009, severe hunger was rarely considered a problem which afflicted people living within the borders of the United Kingdom. There were a few exceptions – a tiny minority of people might “fall through the cracks” in the welfare system. While some hunger relief efforts were undertaken by civil society, this was generally just provided on a local and mostly informal basis. This began to change in 2004 when The Trussell Trust established a franchise model for UK food banks, though they only had two establishments. This attracted little media attention at the time – before the financial crisis of 2008 even the concept of “food banks” was virtually unknown in the UK. According to the Human Rights Watch May 2019 report, due to government cuts in welfare in the past years, ten thousands of families in the UK do not have enough food for survival and turn towards sources of non-state charitable aid each year. “The way the UK government has handled its reduction in welfare spending has left parents unable to feed their children in the fifth-largest economy in the world. The UK government should ensure everyone’s right to food rather than expecting charities to step in and fill the gap,” Kartik Raj, Western Europe researcher at Human Rights Watch, said.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

It’s saddening how quickly people just accept that things are worse or perhaps just straight forget that things were better. It was just nuts when people were running fundraising drives for the NHS, like it’s a fucking charity rather than a basic function of government. Today the number 1 song in the UK is a charity single to raise funds for Trussel Trust food banks… in the UK. I’m old enough to remember when the UK artists would do singles to alleviate hunger in the third world, not down the street.

The number of food banks in the UK has gone berserk in the last decade as austerity has become a permanent feature of the economy.

what you said.

And we don’t need that here even though that seems to be what they want to happen here.

Received recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQAUH2Ueyc

I’m sending this link to everyone on my contact list who is a UK citizen (and still living). Please. a. Sign and b. pass on with a similar request. Don’t let this crony ridden government and its buffoon in chief get away with this.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

“because a single food bank is giving out more “

Nope, it’s not just a problem of one food bank, the entire industry has increased over 2000% since 2010. Kind of disenguenous for the UK government report that you provided to gloss over that but not surprising I suppose.

Until about 2009, severe hunger was rarely considered a problem which afflicted people living within the borders of the United Kingdom. There were a few exceptions – a tiny minority of people might “fall through the cracks” in the welfare system. While some hunger relief efforts were undertaken by civil society, this was generally just provided on a local and mostly informal basis. This began to change in 2004 when The Trussell Trust established a franchise model for UK food banks, though they only had two establishments. This attracted little media attention at the time – before the financial crisis of 2008 even the concept of “food banks” was virtually unknown in the UK. According to the Human Rights Watch May 2019 report, due to government cuts in welfare in the past years, ten thousands of families in the UK do not have enough food for survival and turn towards sources of non-state charitable aid each year. “The way the UK government has handled its reduction in welfare spending has left parents unable to feed their children in the fifth-largest economy in the world. The UK government should ensure everyone’s right to food rather than expecting charities to step in and fill the gap,” Kartik Raj, Western Europe researcher at Human Rights Watch, said.

Fraid knot.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283954/benefit-expenditure-in-the-uk/

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

“because a single food bank is giving out more “

Nope, it’s not just a problem of one food bank, the entire industry has increased over 2000% since 2010. Kind of disenguenous for the UK government report that you provided to gloss over that but not surprising I suppose.

Until about 2009, severe hunger was rarely considered a problem which afflicted people living within the borders of the United Kingdom. There were a few exceptions – a tiny minority of people might “fall through the cracks” in the welfare system. While some hunger relief efforts were undertaken by civil society, this was generally just provided on a local and mostly informal basis. This began to change in 2004 when The Trussell Trust established a franchise model for UK food banks, though they only had two establishments. This attracted little media attention at the time – before the financial crisis of 2008 even the concept of “food banks” was virtually unknown in the UK. According to the Human Rights Watch May 2019 report, due to government cuts in welfare in the past years, ten thousands of families in the UK do not have enough food for survival and turn towards sources of non-state charitable aid each year. “The way the UK government has handled its reduction in welfare spending has left parents unable to feed their children in the fifth-largest economy in the world. The UK government should ensure everyone’s right to food rather than expecting charities to step in and fill the gap,” Kartik Raj, Western Europe researcher at Human Rights Watch, said.

Fraid knot.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283954/benefit-expenditure-in-the-uk/

Total “benefits” may well have zero correlation with support for those who can’t afford enough food.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Fraid knot.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283954/benefit-expenditure-in-the-uk/

Total “benefits” may well have zero correlation with support for those who can’t afford enough food.

plus, maybe the OAP is seen as a benefit and like australia is a large % of welfare payments and with an aging population…

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Fraid knot.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283954/benefit-expenditure-in-the-uk/

Total “benefits” may well have zero correlation with support for those who can’t afford enough food.

I’m trying to find something that can vaguely support DV’s first graph but I’ve come up blank.
Maybe the first graph may have had zero correlation with reality, I don’t know.
It could just be some subversive political tactic that lies between the pit of man’s fears and the summit of his knowledge, we may never know.

Total “benefits” may well have zero correlation with support for those who can’t afford enough food.

+1

Direct measures of food security tell an unambiguous picture

dv said:

It’s saddening how quickly people just accept that things are worse or perhaps just straight forget that things were better. It was just nuts when people were running fundraising drives for the NHS, like it’s a fucking charity rather than a basic function of government. Today the number 1 song in the UK is a charity single to raise funds for Trussel Trust food banks… in the UK. I’m old enough to remember when the UK artists would do singles to alleviate hunger in the third world, not down the street.

The number of food banks in the UK has gone berserk in the last decade as austerity has become a permanent feature of the economy.

This is the legacy of the 2008 austerity program that started as a resylt of the GFC. The UK has never emerged from austerity back to “normal”. Now with Covid and the economic collapse because of Brexit they will be facing further austerity.

Stick a fork in ‘em….

The body is worse than the headline. How can this not be satire?

“It’s hard not to feel a batsqueak of pity for Ghislaine Maxwell — 500 days and counting in solitary confinement. I intersected briefly with her at Oxford. As a fresher I wandered into Balliol JCR one day in search of its subsidised breakfast granola-and-Nescafé offering and found a shiny glamazon with naughty eyes holding court astride a table, a high-heeled boot resting on my brother Boris’s thigh. She gave me a pitying glance but I did manage to snag an invite to her party in Headington Hill Hall — even though I wasn’t in the same college as her and Boris. I have a memory of her father, Bob, coming out in a towelling robe and telling us all to go home. I’m sure fairweather friends would not reveal they went to a Ghislaine Maxwell party: as Barbara Amiel’s brilliant memoir Friends and Enemies proves, you only know who your real chums are when you’re in the gutter.”

dv said:

The body is worse than the headline. How can this not be satire?

“It’s hard not to feel a batsqueak of pity for Ghislaine Maxwell — 500 days and counting in solitary confinement. I intersected briefly with her at Oxford. As a fresher I wandered into Balliol JCR one day in search of its subsidised breakfast granola-and-Nescafé offering and found a shiny glamazon with naughty eyes holding court astride a table, a high-heeled boot resting on my brother Boris’s thigh. She gave me a pitying glance but I did manage to snag an invite to her party in Headington Hill Hall — even though I wasn’t in the same college as her and Boris. I have a memory of her father, Bob, coming out in a towelling robe and telling us all to go home. I’m sure fairweather friends would not reveal they went to a Ghislaine Maxwell party: as Barbara Amiel’s brilliant memoir Friends and Enemies proves, you only know who your real chums are when you’re in the gutter.”

Yeah, sure.

dv said:

The body is worse than the headline. How can this not be satire?

“It’s hard not to feel a batsqueak of pity for Ghislaine Maxwell — 500 days and counting in solitary confinement. I intersected briefly with her at Oxford. As a fresher I wandered into Balliol JCR one day in search of its subsidised breakfast granola-and-Nescafé offering and found a shiny glamazon with naughty eyes holding court astride a table, a high-heeled boot resting on my brother Boris’s thigh. She gave me a pitying glance but I did manage to snag an invite to her party in Headington Hill Hall — even though I wasn’t in the same college as her and Boris. I have a memory of her father, Bob, coming out in a towelling robe and telling us all to go home. I’m sure fairweather friends would not reveal they went to a Ghislaine Maxwell party: as Barbara Amiel’s brilliant memoir Friends and Enemies proves, you only know who your real chums are when you’re in the gutter.”

They say Jimmy Savile’s pals disowned him in the end too, the disloyal cads.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

The body is worse than the headline. How can this not be satire?

“It’s hard not to feel a batsqueak of pity for Ghislaine Maxwell — 500 days and counting in solitary confinement. I intersected briefly with her at Oxford. As a fresher I wandered into Balliol JCR one day in search of its subsidised breakfast granola-and-Nescafé offering and found a shiny glamazon with naughty eyes holding court astride a table, a high-heeled boot resting on my brother Boris’s thigh. She gave me a pitying glance but I did manage to snag an invite to her party in Headington Hill Hall — even though I wasn’t in the same college as her and Boris. I have a memory of her father, Bob, coming out in a towelling robe and telling us all to go home. I’m sure fairweather friends would not reveal they went to a Ghislaine Maxwell party: as Barbara Amiel’s brilliant memoir Friends and Enemies proves, you only know who your real chums are when you’re in the gutter.”

They say Jimmy Savile’s pals disowned him in the end too, the disloyal cads.

Maybe they were just the sort of people that never had (m)any real friends.

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

The body is worse than the headline. How can this not be satire?

“It’s hard not to feel a batsqueak of pity for Ghislaine Maxwell — 500 days and counting in solitary confinement. I intersected briefly with her at Oxford. As a fresher I wandered into Balliol JCR one day in search of its subsidised breakfast granola-and-Nescafé offering and found a shiny glamazon with naughty eyes holding court astride a table, a high-heeled boot resting on my brother Boris’s thigh. She gave me a pitying glance but I did manage to snag an invite to her party in Headington Hill Hall — even though I wasn’t in the same college as her and Boris. I have a memory of her father, Bob, coming out in a towelling robe and telling us all to go home. I’m sure fairweather friends would not reveal they went to a Ghislaine Maxwell party: as Barbara Amiel’s brilliant memoir Friends and Enemies proves, you only know who your real chums are when you’re in the gutter.”

They say Jimmy Savile’s pals disowned him in the end too, the disloyal cads.

Maybe they were just the sort of people that never had (m)any real friends.

I was joking, in response to the ridiculous statement by this woman who:

a) By her own admission only briefly met the Maxwell woman, yet is claiming to be a loyal all-weather friend

….of

b) A vile exploitive bitch who was happy to procure 14-year-olds for her disgusting “boyfriend”.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

They say Jimmy Savile’s pals disowned him in the end too, the disloyal cads.

Maybe they were just the sort of people that never had (m)any real friends.

I was joking, in response to the ridiculous statement by this woman who:

a) By her own admission only briefly met the Maxwell woman, yet is claiming to be a loyal all-weather friend

….of

b) A vile exploitive bitch who was happy to procure 14-year-olds for her disgusting “boyfriend”.

Yeah, I know.

I take it this Rachel Johnson is Boris Johnson’s sister? Probably the sort of person who voted for Brexit too and thinks it was a great success. The sort of person who thinks that sexual abuse of underprivileged people is completely fine, and that the people abused should probably be grateful for it. In other words, someone weho lives in theor own little world disconnected with the rest of us.

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Maybe they were just the sort of people that never had (m)any real friends.

I was joking, in response to the ridiculous statement by this woman who:

a) By her own admission only briefly met the Maxwell woman, yet is claiming to be a loyal all-weather friend

….of

b) A vile exploitive bitch who was happy to procure 14-year-olds for her disgusting “boyfriend”.

Yeah, I know.

I take it this Rachel Johnson is Boris Johnson’s sister? Probably the sort of person who voted for Brexit too and thinks it was a great success. The sort of person who thinks that sexual abuse of underprivileged people is completely fine, and that the people abused should probably be grateful for it. In other words, someone weho lives in theor own little world disconnected with the rest of us.

Horrible posh people.

Maxwell’s lawyers might appeal the verdict on the grounds that she should have been tried by a jury of her peers, other horrible posh people.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

I was joking, in response to the ridiculous statement by this woman who:

a) By her own admission only briefly met the Maxwell woman, yet is claiming to be a loyal all-weather friend

….of

b) A vile exploitive bitch who was happy to procure 14-year-olds for her disgusting “boyfriend”.

Yeah, I know.

I take it this Rachel Johnson is Boris Johnson’s sister? Probably the sort of person who voted for Brexit too and thinks it was a great success. The sort of person who thinks that sexual abuse of underprivileged people is completely fine, and that the people abused should probably be grateful for it. In other words, someone weho lives in theor own little world disconnected with the rest of us.

Horrible posh people.

Maxwell’s lawyers might appeal the verdict on the grounds that she should have been tried by a jury of her peers, other horrible posh people.

May she languish long behind bars.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

I was joking, in response to the ridiculous statement by this woman who:

a) By her own admission only briefly met the Maxwell woman, yet is claiming to be a loyal all-weather friend

….of

b) A vile exploitive bitch who was happy to procure 14-year-olds for her disgusting “boyfriend”.

Yeah, I know.

I take it this Rachel Johnson is Boris Johnson’s sister? Probably the sort of person who voted for Brexit too and thinks it was a great success. The sort of person who thinks that sexual abuse of underprivileged people is completely fine, and that the people abused should probably be grateful for it. In other words, someone weho lives in theor own little world disconnected with the rest of us.

Horrible posh people.

Maxwell’s lawyers might appeal the verdict on the grounds that she should have been tried by a jury of her peers, other horrible posh people.

Looked her up.

Her brother Boris is indeed the same Boris who is now Chief Trump Impersonator of the United Kingdom, but interestingly she is anti-Brexit, and has stood for anti-Brexit parties.

As for Maxwell, I totally agree she deserves all the punishment she gets and more, but I can also feel a tinge of pity for her.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Yeah, I know.

I take it this Rachel Johnson is Boris Johnson’s sister? Probably the sort of person who voted for Brexit too and thinks it was a great success. The sort of person who thinks that sexual abuse of underprivileged people is completely fine, and that the people abused should probably be grateful for it. In other words, someone weho lives in theor own little world disconnected with the rest of us.

Horrible posh people.

Maxwell’s lawyers might appeal the verdict on the grounds that she should have been tried by a jury of her peers, other horrible posh people.

Looked her up.

Her brother Boris is indeed the same Boris who is now Chief Trump Impersonator of the United Kingdom, but interestingly she is anti-Brexit, and has stood for anti-Brexit parties.

As for Maxwell, I totally agree she deserves all the punishment she gets and more, but I can also feel a tinge of pity for her.

Remember, Boris himself was anti-Brexit until he decided that being pro-Brexit was more in his personal interest.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

They say Jimmy Savile’s pals disowned him in the end too, the disloyal cads.

Maybe they were just the sort of people that never had (m)any real friends.

I was joking, in response to the ridiculous statement by this woman who:

a) By her own admission only briefly met the Maxwell woman, yet is claiming to be a loyal all-weather friend

….of

b) A vile exploitive bitch who was happy to procure 14-year-olds for her disgusting “boyfriend”.

I think that there is a certain social set that thinks they should be above not just the law but ordinary decency and morality.

Not satire.

(AD was Epstein’s lawyer and is one of those accused of child sex offences in relation to Epstein and Maxwell’s activities)

Court to unseal deal between Jeffrey Epstein and Virginia Giuffre

A crunch week in Prince Andrew’s fight to avoid a public trial over claims he sexually assaulted a 17-year-old trafficked by the convicted child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein begins on Monday, when a New York court unseals a confidential 2009 deal between Epstein and the alleged victim.

Lawyers for the Duke of York, who “unequivocally denies” the claims made by Virginia Giuffre, believe her agreement with Epstein could shield him from her civil lawsuit accusing him of sexual abuse in 2001.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/02/court-to-unseal-deal-between-jeffrey-epstein-and-virginia-giuffre

Bubblecar said:

Court to unseal deal between Jeffrey Epstein and Virginia Giuffre

A crunch week in Prince Andrew’s fight to avoid a public trial over claims he sexually assaulted a 17-year-old trafficked by the convicted child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein begins on Monday, when a New York court unseals a confidential 2009 deal between Epstein and the alleged victim.

Lawyers for the Duke of York, who “unequivocally denies” the claims made by Virginia Giuffre, believe her agreement with Epstein could shield him from her civil lawsuit accusing him of sexual abuse in 2001.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/02/court-to-unseal-deal-between-jeffrey-epstein-and-virginia-giuffre

That could backfire spectacularly.

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

Court to unseal deal between Jeffrey Epstein and Virginia Giuffre

A crunch week in Prince Andrew’s fight to avoid a public trial over claims he sexually assaulted a 17-year-old trafficked by the convicted child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein begins on Monday, when a New York court unseals a confidential 2009 deal between Epstein and the alleged victim.

Lawyers for the Duke of York, who “unequivocally denies” the claims made by Virginia Giuffre, believe her agreement with Epstein could shield him from her civil lawsuit accusing him of sexual abuse in 2001.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/02/court-to-unseal-deal-between-jeffrey-epstein-and-virginia-giuffre

That could backfire spectacularly.

Yeah, seems odd you could get out of a lawsuit by admitting the truth, or at least leaving it perfectly open for people to believe that the claims against you are true. Winning the financial/legal battle on a technicality but losing your dignity and reputation and leaving the claims against you open and not disproved.

(CNN)A 2009 settlement agreement between sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and Virginia Roberts Giuffre — the woman who accused him of sexual abuse and of trafficking her to Prince Andrew and other men — was unsealed Monday.

It shows that Epstein paid Giuffre $500,000 to drop the case without any admission of liability or fault.

The document was unsealed as part of Giuffre’s separate lawsuit against Prince Andrew. She alleges that Epstein trafficked her and forced her to have sex with his friends — including the prince — and that Andrew was aware she was underage (17) in the US. Prince Andrew has denied the allegations.

Attorneys for Andrew argued in his motion to dismiss Giuffre’s case against him in October that her lawsuit violates the terms of the settlement agreement with Epstein, in which she agreed to a “general release” of claims against Epstein and others.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/03/us/virginia-giuffre-jeffrey-epstein-settlement/index.html

Hiding behind the loophole of a dead sex trafficker? Stay classy, Andrew

Marina Hyde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/04/loophole-dead-sex-trafficker-stay-classy-andrew-virginia-giuffre-epstein

Bubblecar said:

Hiding behind the loophole of a dead sex trafficker? Stay classy, Andrew

Marina Hyde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/04/loophole-dead-sex-trafficker-stay-classy-andrew-virginia-giuffre-epstein

Sarah once took the girls to holiday on epstein’s isle. Seems strange to me that you wold have let that happen if you knew the full story of what was going down there…

sarahs mum said:

Bubblecar said:

Hiding behind the loophole of a dead sex trafficker? Stay classy, Andrew

Marina Hyde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/04/loophole-dead-sex-trafficker-stay-classy-andrew-virginia-giuffre-epstein

Sarah once took the girls to holiday on epstein’s isle. Seems strange to me that you wold have let that happen if you knew the full story of what was going down there…

The other Sarah?

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Bubblecar said:

Hiding behind the loophole of a dead sex trafficker? Stay classy, Andrew

Marina Hyde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/04/loophole-dead-sex-trafficker-stay-classy-andrew-virginia-giuffre-epstein

Sarah once took the girls to holiday on epstein’s isle. Seems strange to me that you wold have let that happen if you knew the full story of what was going down there…

The other Sarah?

The Sarah that is mother of his children. The red headed one with toes.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Bubblecar said:

Hiding behind the loophole of a dead sex trafficker? Stay classy, Andrew

Marina Hyde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/04/loophole-dead-sex-trafficker-stay-classy-andrew-virginia-giuffre-epstein

Sarah once took the girls to holiday on epstein’s isle. Seems strange to me that you wold have let that happen if you knew the full story of what was going down there…

The other Sarah?

Ferguson, I presume…

sarahs mum said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Sarah once took the girls to holiday on epstein’s isle. Seems strange to me that you wold have let that happen if you knew the full story of what was going down there…

The other Sarah?

The Sarah that is mother of his children. The red headed one with toes.

Ah, Andrew’s Sarah.

furious said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Sarah once took the girls to holiday on epstein’s isle. Seems strange to me that you wold have let that happen if you knew the full story of what was going down there…

The other Sarah?

Ferguson, I presume…

Imagine being a fly on wall when Andrew gets summoned to mummies chambers.

furious said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Sarah once took the girls to holiday on epstein’s isle. Seems strange to me that you wold have let that happen if you knew the full story of what was going down there…

The other Sarah?

Ferguson, I presume…

I will resist the temptation to post an image of a tractor.

Tamb said:

furious said:

Bubblecar said:

The other Sarah?

Ferguson, I presume…

I will resist the temptation to post an image of a tractor.

Childhood snap of Prince Andrew.

The Royals accept worse and worse behaviour from their family.
It was a scandal to want to marry a divorcee once, now anything seems to go.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

furious said:

Ferguson, I presume…

I will resist the temptation to post an image of a tractor.

Childhood snap of Prince Andrew.

Is that a Ferguson he’s riding?

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

I will resist the temptation to post an image of a tractor.

Childhood snap of Prince Andrew.

Is that a Ferguson he’s riding?

giggle

Michael V said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

Childhood snap of Prince Andrew.

Is that a Ferguson he’s riding?

giggle

A fergie.

Rape as a punishment for not paying your TV license

Have you ever seen such widespread contempt and dismissal for the most basic standards of safety and dignity for female prisoners?

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/rape-as-a-punishment-for-not-paying

Bubblecar said:

Have you ever seen such widespread contempt and dismissal for the most basic standards of safety and dignity for female prisoners?

Not outside of Parliament House, Canberra, nope.

Still amazing to me that after all the corruption and incompetence of the Johnson era, it’s this sly staff party that’s finally hurt his popularity.

dv said:

Still amazing to me that after all the corruption and incompetence of the Johnson era, it’s this sly staff party that’s finally hurt his popularity.

unsurprisingly it just goes to show how seriously people take their local politics in this day and age

we apologise about our onions reference in that other thread

dv said:

Still amazing to me that after all the corruption and incompetence of the Johnson era, it’s this sly staff party that’s finally hurt his popularity.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/partygate-phones-clean-up-investigation-sue-gray-b1991055.html

Downing Street staff were advised to “clean up” their phones by removing information that could suggest lockdown parties were held at No 10, The Independent has been told.

Two sources claim a senior member of staff told them it would be a “good idea” to remove any messages implying they had attended or were even aware of anything that could “look like a party”.

The “clean-up” suggestion was made early last month after the first reports emerged of parties at Downing Street, the sources allege.

One said they were “told to clean up their phone just in case” they had to hand it in to the investigation.

A second said: “I was being leant on [during the discussion with a senior colleague] and told to get rid of anything that could look bad.”

Longtime Prince Andrew accuser Virginia Giuffre’s sexual abuse lawsuit against him can move forward, as a New York judge rejected the royal’s efforts to dismiss her civil claim on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/12/prince-andrew-case-proceed-latest-ruling-virginia-giuffre

sarahs mum said:

Longtime Prince Andrew accuser Virginia Giuffre’s sexual abuse lawsuit against him can move forward, as a New York judge rejected the royal’s efforts to dismiss her civil claim on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/12/prince-andrew-case-proceed-latest-ruling-virginia-giuffre

Good

Without wishing to sound like an episode of Poirot, I remember well what I was doing on the evening of 20 May 2020, when more than 100 people were invited to a BYOB party in the prime minister’s garden, “to make the most of the lovely weather”. While they recovered from an “exceptionally busy period” with, it might be presumed, laughter, companionship and their own bottles of wine, I was at my house. Like them, I, too, had a glass of wine, although I had drunk it by myself. I had then gone for a walk around my block where I had bumped into a friend out on his “daily permitted exercise”. We spoke a little, at a distance of more than two metres. He offered his condolences. I thanked him and returned home, alone. 20 May 2020 was the day I buried my sister.

more.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/12/rory-kinnear-no-10-lockdown-party-buried-sister

sarahs mum said:

Longtime Prince Andrew accuser Virginia Giuffre’s sexual abuse lawsuit against him can move forward, as a New York judge rejected the royal’s efforts to dismiss her civil claim on Wednesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/12/prince-andrew-case-proceed-latest-ruling-virginia-giuffre

Ta.

It’s outrageous. I’m absolutely appalled. Bojo must resign and the Ambassador must recalled.

I mean, it’s what pollies go for these days, idn’t tit.

A bottle of wine, cuppla dodgey cabcharge vouchers, havin’ a dodgy mate that got a cuppla sheds built at the local footy oval, or going to a pissup in the backyard at No 10.

BBC are really hammering the garden party scandal but they basically gave the Tories a pass for handing hundreds of millions of pounds of contracts to friends with no relevant expertise or background.

speaking of SARS-CoV-2 parties remember back when

dv said:

BBC are really hammering the garden party scandal but they basically gave the Tories a pass for handing hundreds of millions of pounds of contracts to friends with no relevant expertise or background.

We did the same with ScoMO. He can get away with all sorts of shit. But holidaying in Hawaii while the country burned…nup

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

BBC are really hammering the garden party scandal but they basically gave the Tories a pass for handing hundreds of millions of pounds of contracts to friends with no relevant expertise or background.

We did the same with ScoMO. He can get away with all sorts of shit. But holidaying in Hawaii while the country burned…nup

They should have left ScoMo in Hawaii.

He wouldn’t have been any less use to the situation than he was when he returned.

The only thing that makes me think Andrew might be innocent is that his alibis are fucking dreadful.

dv said:

The only thing that makes me think Andrew might be innocent is that his alibis are fucking dreadful.

I wonder if Pizza Express offers a Randy Andy special these days.

“Want pineapple on your Andy? No sweat!”

dv said:

The only thing that makes me think Andrew might be innocent is that his alibis are fucking dreadful.

Randy Andie will never be king, maybe they could hide him somewhere.
Lock him up with Fergie, she can have her way with the whip.

dv said:

The only thing that makes me think Andrew might be innocent is that his alibis are fucking dreadful.

His alibis are so fucking dreadful, he has “guilty” all over him.