Study reveals new details on what happened in the first microsecond of Big Bang

Researchers from University of Copenhagen have investigated what happened to a specific kind of plasma—the first matter ever to be present—during the first microsecond of Big Bang. Their findings provide a piece of the puzzle to the evolution of the universe, as we know it today.

more…

Tau.Neutrino said:

Study reveals new details on what happened in the first microsecond of Big Bang

Researchers from University of Copenhagen have investigated what happened to a specific kind of plasma—the first matter ever to be present—during the first microsecond of Big Bang. Their findings provide a piece of the puzzle to the evolution of the universe, as we know it today.

more…

Well it’s QI

but

The implied assumption that colliding a few particles under current conditions can be an accurate simulation of what happened in the first microseconds of the Big Bang seems to me to be quite extraordinary.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Study reveals new details on what happened in the first microsecond of Big Bang

Researchers from University of Copenhagen have investigated what happened to a specific kind of plasma—the first matter ever to be present—during the first microsecond of Big Bang. Their findings provide a piece of the puzzle to the evolution of the universe, as we know it today.

more…

Well it’s QI

but

The implied assumption that colliding a few particles under current conditions can be an accurate simulation of what happened in the first microseconds of the Big Bang seems to me to be quite extraordinary.

That’s because you aren’t a particle physicist.

cheers again, read that

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Study reveals new details on what happened in the first microsecond of Big Bang

Researchers from University of Copenhagen have investigated what happened to a specific kind of plasma—the first matter ever to be present—during the first microsecond of Big Bang. Their findings provide a piece of the puzzle to the evolution of the universe, as we know it today.

more…

Well it’s QI

but

The implied assumption that colliding a few particles under current conditions can be an accurate simulation of what happened in the first microseconds of the Big Bang seems to me to be quite extraordinary.

That’s because you aren’t a particle physicist.

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Well it’s QI

but

The implied assumption that colliding a few particles under current conditions can be an accurate simulation of what happened in the first microseconds of the Big Bang seems to me to be quite extraordinary.

That’s because you aren’t a particle physicist.

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

LOL.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Well it’s QI

but

The implied assumption that colliding a few particles under current conditions can be an accurate simulation of what happened in the first microseconds of the Big Bang seems to me to be quite extraordinary.

That’s because you aren’t a particle physicist.

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

The big & extremely expensive machine lets them do that, it’s one of the reasons it was built. The next one will be more powerful and hence let them get a touch closer, etc.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

That’s because you aren’t a particle physicist.

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

LOL.

The standard response when you don’t have anything reasonable to say.

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

That’s because you aren’t a particle physicist.

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

The big & extremely expensive machine lets them do that, it’s one of the reasons it was built. The next one will be more powerful and hence let them get a touch closer, etc.

Plus they work up to each step. The experiments are to see if the theories are correct if so onto the next step. if not then rework the theories or rework the experiment if the are certain the theories are on track.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

LOL.

The standard response when you don’t have anything reasonable to say.

I agree with Boris FWIW

Ian said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

LOL.

The standard response when you don’t have anything reasonable to say.

I agree with Boris FWIW

I just treated it to the contempt it deserved. I dislike the logical phallacy or personal incredulity.

JudgeMental said:

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

The big & extremely expensive machine lets them do that, it’s one of the reasons it was built. The next one will be more powerful and hence let them get a touch closer, etc.

Plus they work up to each step. The experiments are to see if the theories are correct if so onto the next step. if not then rework the theories or rework the experiment if the are certain the theories are on track.

Yep.

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

That’s because you aren’t a particle physicist.

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

The big & extremely expensive machine lets them do that, it’s one of the reasons it was built. The next one will be more powerful and hence let them get a touch closer, etc.

It doesn’t matter how big and expensive the machine is. It is stuck in the conditions of space now, not the totally different conditions at the start of the Big Bang.

Ian said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

LOL.

The standard response when you don’t have anything reasonable to say.

I agree with Boris FWIW

Why?

JudgeMental said:

Ian said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The standard response when you don’t have anything reasonable to say.

I agree with Boris FWIW

I just treated it to the contempt it deserved. I dislike the logical phallacy or personal incredulity.

of not or

Spiny Norman said:

JudgeMental said:

Spiny Norman said:

The big & extremely expensive machine lets them do that, it’s one of the reasons it was built. The next one will be more powerful and hence let them get a touch closer, etc.

Plus they work up to each step. The experiments are to see if the theories are correct if so onto the next step. if not then rework the theories or rework the experiment if the are certain the theories are on track.

Yep.

No.

They have no way of checking if the hypotheses about conditions then are correct or not.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It’s got nothing to do with extent of knowledge about how particles interact under current conditions.

It’s about extrapolating that knowledge to conditions where we have no idea how stuff behaves, and no way of doing an experiment that comes remotely near simulating those conditions.

The big & extremely expensive machine lets them do that, it’s one of the reasons it was built. The next one will be more powerful and hence let them get a touch closer, etc.

It doesn’t matter how big and expensive the machine is. It is stuck in the conditions of space now, not the totally different conditions at the start of the Big Bang.

But it does, that’s why it’s been built. It wasn’t by accident or just a guess that it was built that way.

JudgeMental said:

JudgeMental said:

Ian said:

I agree with Boris FWIW

I just treated it to the contempt it deserved. I dislike the logical phallacy or personal incredulity.

of not or

Feel free to supply the observational evidence of conditions then, that doesn’t rely on extrapolating back from when we do have observational evidence.

What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today?

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The big & extremely expensive machine lets them do that, it’s one of the reasons it was built. The next one will be more powerful and hence let them get a touch closer, etc.

It doesn’t matter how big and expensive the machine is. It is stuck in the conditions of space now, not the totally different conditions at the start of the Big Bang.

But it does, that’s why it’s been built. It wasn’t by accident or just a guess that it was built that way.

It was built that way so they can examine how particles behave now, which they can’t do without a big and expensive machine.

That doesn’t mean it accurately models how things were milliseconds after the hypothesised start of the current universe.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

JudgeMental said:

I just treated it to the contempt it deserved. I dislike the logical phallacy or personal incredulity.

of not or

Feel free to supply the observational evidence of conditions then, that doesn’t rely on extrapolating back from when we do have observational evidence.

They are empirically testing theories about the Big Bang, based on observation.

Can’t really expect more than that :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It doesn’t matter how big and expensive the machine is. It is stuck in the conditions of space now, not the totally different conditions at the start of the Big Bang.

But it does, that’s why it’s been built. It wasn’t by accident or just a guess that it was built that way.

It was built that way so they can examine how particles behave now, which they can’t do without a big and expensive machine.

That doesn’t mean it accurately models how things were milliseconds after the hypothesised start of the current universe.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

of not or

Feel free to supply the observational evidence of conditions then, that doesn’t rely on extrapolating back from when we do have observational evidence.

They are empirically testing theories about the Big Bang, based on observation.

Can’t really expect more than that :)

Hypotheses.

And I agree, we can’t really expect more than that.

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

But it does, that’s why it’s been built. It wasn’t by accident or just a guess that it was built that way.

It was built that way so they can examine how particles behave now, which they can’t do without a big and expensive machine.

That doesn’t mean it accurately models how things were milliseconds after the hypothesised start of the current universe.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Ian said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The standard response when you don’t have anything reasonable to say.

I agree with Boris FWIW

Why?

We are guessing about what happened at the Big Bang but we’ve got a pretty good handle on 10E-32 seconds or beyond, given a couple of reasonable assumptions.

What exactly is your objection?

Spiny Norman said:

What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today?

Is there a reference to evidence about behaviour of stuff milliseconds after the start of the Big Bang in there somewhere?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It was built that way so they can examine how particles behave now, which they can’t do without a big and expensive machine.

That doesn’t mean it accurately models how things were milliseconds after the hypothesised start of the current universe.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence?

The link that I posted that states that it was also built to model very early conditions of the universe.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today?

Is there a reference to evidence about behaviour of stuff milliseconds after the start of the Big Bang in there somewhere?

It’s but a mere search away, if you feel the need.

Ian said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Ian said:

I agree with Boris FWIW

Why?

We are guessing about what happened at the Big Bang but we’ve got a pretty good handle on 10E-32 seconds or beyond, given a couple of reasonable assumptions.

What exactly is your objection?

I have never seen any evidence of how stuff behaved anywhere close to 10E-32s

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence?

The link that I posted that states that it was also built to model very early conditions of the universe.

You mean this?
“What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today? This will be investigated by heavy ion collisions, mainly in ALICE, but also in CMS, ATLAS and LHCb. First observed in 2010, findings published in 2012 confirmed the phenomenon of jet quenching in heavy-ion collisions.”

They can investigate the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma under current conditions. No argument about that.

I don’t see any evidence there that the properties would be the same under 10E-32s conditions.

I have never even seen a reasoned discussion of that question.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What evidence?

The link that I posted that states that it was also built to model very early conditions of the universe.

You mean this?
“What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today? This will be investigated by heavy ion collisions, mainly in ALICE, but also in CMS, ATLAS and LHCb. First observed in 2010, findings published in 2012 confirmed the phenomenon of jet quenching in heavy-ion collisions.”

They can investigate the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma under current conditions. No argument about that.

I don’t see any evidence there that the properties would be the same under 10E-32s conditions.

I have never even seen a reasoned discussion of that question.

> They can investigate the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma under current conditions. No argument about that.

Actually I do have an argument about that. Even in ALICE they didn’t succeed in making a quark-gluon plasma. They tried really hard but didn’t manage to get close enough.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The link that I posted that states that it was also built to model very early conditions of the universe.

You mean this?
“What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today? This will be investigated by heavy ion collisions, mainly in ALICE, but also in CMS, ATLAS and LHCb. First observed in 2010, findings published in 2012 confirmed the phenomenon of jet quenching in heavy-ion collisions.”

They can investigate the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma under current conditions. No argument about that.

I don’t see any evidence there that the properties would be the same under 10E-32s conditions.

I have never even seen a reasoned discussion of that question.

> They can investigate the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma under current conditions. No argument about that.

Actually I do have an argument about that. Even in ALICE they didn’t succeed in making a quark-gluon plasma. They tried really hard but didn’t manage to get close enough.

Ah, OK, I admit my ignorance on that point then :)

I did a binge on this topic, and this is the first thing that came up:

Cosmology Has Some Big Problems

“The big bang paradigm that emerged in the mid-20th century effectively stretches the model’s validity to a kind of infinity, defined either as the boundary of the radius of the universe (calculated at 46 billion light-years), or in terms of the beginning of time. This giant stretch is based on a few concrete discoveries, such as Edwin Hubble’s observation that the universe appears to be expanding (in 1929) and the detection of the microwave background radiation (in 1964). But considering the scale involved, these limited observations have had an outsized influence on cosmological theory.

It is, of course, entirely plausible that the validity of general relativity breaks down much closer to our own home than at the edge of the hypothetical end of the universe. And if that were the case, today’s multilayered theoretical edifice of the big bang paradigm would turn out to be a confusing mix of fictional beasts invented to uphold the model, along with empirically valid variables mutually reliant on each other to the point of making it impossible to sort science from fiction.”

More at the link.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

The link that I posted that states that it was also built to model very early conditions of the universe.

You mean this?
“What are the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma, thought to have existed in the early universe and in certain compact and strange astronomical objects today? This will be investigated by heavy ion collisions, mainly in ALICE, but also in CMS, ATLAS and LHCb. First observed in 2010, findings published in 2012 confirmed the phenomenon of jet quenching in heavy-ion collisions.”

They can investigate the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma under current conditions. No argument about that.

I don’t see any evidence there that the properties would be the same under 10E-32s conditions.

I have never even seen a reasoned discussion of that question.

> They can investigate the nature and properties of quark–gluon plasma under current conditions. No argument about that.

Actually I do have an argument about that. Even in ALICE they didn’t succeed in making a quark-gluon plasma. They tried really hard but didn’t manage to get close enough.

https://home.cern/news/series/lhc-physics-ten/recreating-big-bang-matter-earth