Date: 29/05/2021 21:36:18
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1744610
Subject: Ingenuity oops

STATUS UPDATES | May 27, 2021
Surviving an In-Flight Anomaly: What Happened on Ingenuity’s Sixth Flight

https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/status/305/surviving-an-in-flight-anomaly-what-happened-on-ingenuitys-sixth-flight/

“On the 91st Martian day, or sol, of NASA’s Mars 2020 Perseverance rover mission, the Ingenuity Mars Helicopter performed its sixth flight. The flight was designed to expand the flight envelope and demonstrate aerial-imaging capabilities by taking stereo images of a region of interest to the west. Ingenuity was commanded to climb to an altitude of 10 meters before translating 150 meters to the southwest at a ground speed of 4 meters per second. At that point, it was to translate 15 meters to the south while taking images toward the west, then fly another 50 meters northeast and land.”

“Telemetry from Flight Six shows that the first 150-meter leg of the flight went off without a hitch. But toward the end of that leg, something happened: Ingenuity began adjusting its velocity and tilting back and forth in an oscillating pattern”.

The oscillations seem to be caused by the interaction between the helicopter’s navcam and the velocity. When the navcam was swiched off for landing the oscillations stopped. ie. a feedback loop problem.

“Approximately 54 seconds into the flight, a glitch occurred in the pipeline of images being delivered by the navigation camera. This glitch caused a single image to be lost, but more importantly, it resulted in all later navigation images being delivered with inaccurate timestamps. From this point on, each time the navigation algorithm performed a correction based on a navigation image, it was operating on the basis of incorrect information about when the image was taken. The resulting inconsistencies significantly degraded the information used to fly the helicopter, leading to estimates being constantly “corrected” to account for phantom errors. Large oscillations ensued.”

“Despite encountering this anomaly, Ingenuity was able to maintain flight and land safely”.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 21:40:23
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1744615
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

mollwollfumble said:


STATUS UPDATES | May 27, 2021
Surviving an In-Flight Anomaly: What Happened on Ingenuity’s Sixth Flight

https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/status/305/surviving-an-in-flight-anomaly-what-happened-on-ingenuitys-sixth-flight/

“On the 91st Martian day, or sol, of NASA’s Mars 2020 Perseverance rover mission, the Ingenuity Mars Helicopter performed its sixth flight. The flight was designed to expand the flight envelope and demonstrate aerial-imaging capabilities by taking stereo images of a region of interest to the west. Ingenuity was commanded to climb to an altitude of 10 meters before translating 150 meters to the southwest at a ground speed of 4 meters per second. At that point, it was to translate 15 meters to the south while taking images toward the west, then fly another 50 meters northeast and land.”

“Telemetry from Flight Six shows that the first 150-meter leg of the flight went off without a hitch. But toward the end of that leg, something happened: Ingenuity began adjusting its velocity and tilting back and forth in an oscillating pattern”.

The oscillations seem to be caused by the interaction between the helicopter’s navcam and the velocity. When the navcam was swiched off for landing the oscillations stopped. ie. a feedback loop problem.

“Approximately 54 seconds into the flight, a glitch occurred in the pipeline of images being delivered by the navigation camera. This glitch caused a single image to be lost, but more importantly, it resulted in all later navigation images being delivered with inaccurate timestamps. From this point on, each time the navigation algorithm performed a correction based on a navigation image, it was operating on the basis of incorrect information about when the image was taken. The resulting inconsistencies significantly degraded the information used to fly the helicopter, leading to estimates being constantly “corrected” to account for phantom errors. Large oscillations ensued.”

“Despite encountering this anomaly, Ingenuity was able to maintain flight and land safely”.

In old NASA news. I hadn’t realised that the Hubble Heritage project was abandoned in 2016. No new images since that time.

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Date: 29/05/2021 21:58:27
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1744626
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

More from NASA.

Nasa’s SOFIA, the giant telescope aboard a modified jumbo jet, hasn’t been all that successful.

But here is one recent image from SOFIA, showing the magnetic fields in that famous giant globular galaxy with radio jets, that brightest radio source outside our galaxy, Centaurus A.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 22:06:53
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1744629
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

mollwollfumble said:

“Despite encountering this anomaly, Ingenuity was able to maintain flight and land safely”.

Awesome. Found a bug, and survived to fly again.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 22:26:09
From: dv
ID: 1744638
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

mollwollfumble said:


More from NASA.

Nasa’s SOFIA, the giant telescope aboard a modified jumbo jet, hasn’t been all that successful.

But here is one recent image from SOFIA, showing the magnetic fields in that famous giant globular galaxy with radio jets, that brightest radio source outside our galaxy, Centaurus A.


That’s amazing

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 22:30:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1744645
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

dv said:


mollwollfumble said:

More from NASA.

Nasa’s SOFIA, the giant telescope aboard a modified jumbo jet, hasn’t been all that successful.

But here is one recent image from SOFIA, showing the magnetic fields in that famous giant globular galaxy with radio jets, that brightest radio source outside our galaxy, Centaurus A.


That’s amazing

It’s an odd but impressive image.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 22:35:24
From: dv
ID: 1744652
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

More from NASA.

Nasa’s SOFIA, the giant telescope aboard a modified jumbo jet, hasn’t been all that successful.

But here is one recent image from SOFIA, showing the magnetic fields in that famous giant globular galaxy with radio jets, that brightest radio source outside our galaxy, Centaurus A.


That’s amazing

It’s an odd but impressive image.

Here’s a picture of iridescent clouds, snapped by Curiosity

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasas-curiosity-rover-captures-shining-clouds-on-mars

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 22:45:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1744657
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

dv said:


Bubblecar said:

dv said:

That’s amazing

It’s an odd but impressive image.

Here’s a picture of iridescent clouds, snapped by Curiosity

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasas-curiosity-rover-captures-shining-clouds-on-mars

This is a very impressive one.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 22:48:35
From: furious
ID: 1744660
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s an odd but impressive image.

Here’s a picture of iridescent clouds, snapped by Curiosity

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasas-curiosity-rover-captures-shining-clouds-on-mars

This is a very impressive one.

Next minute…

Reply Quote

Date: 29/05/2021 22:52:02
From: Rule 303
ID: 1744662
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s an odd but impressive image.

Here’s a picture of iridescent clouds, snapped by Curiosity

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasas-curiosity-rover-captures-shining-clouds-on-mars

This is a very impressive one.

This one was taken from Earth. 8-)

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Date: 30/05/2021 03:33:59
From: btm
ID: 1744680
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

How does the helicopter avoid ground resonance? I know a good pilot can avoid or mitigate it, and recover from it if he/she’s quick enough, but the Ingenuity helicopter is autonomous.

See http://airflightdisaster.com/?p=19669 for a video of a human-controlled helicopter experiencing catastrophic ground resonance.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 06:54:15
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1744694
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

btm said:


How does the helicopter avoid ground resonance? I know a good pilot can avoid or mitigate it, and recover from it if he/she’s quick enough, but the Ingenuity helicopter is autonomous.

See http://airflightdisaster.com/?p=19669 for a video of a human-controlled helicopter experiencing catastrophic ground resonance.

It’d be too small & stiff to suffer from that. And I imagine that the resonant frequency would be too high for rotors of that size anyway.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 07:06:08
From: Michael V
ID: 1744698
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Spiny Norman said:


btm said:

How does the helicopter avoid ground resonance? I know a good pilot can avoid or mitigate it, and recover from it if he/she’s quick enough, but the Ingenuity helicopter is autonomous.

See http://airflightdisaster.com/?p=19669 for a video of a human-controlled helicopter experiencing catastrophic ground resonance.

It’d be too small & stiff to suffer from that. And I imagine that the resonant frequency would be too high for rotors of that size anyway.

Does having a pair of counter-rotating rotors help solve this problem?

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 07:25:58
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1744702
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Bubblecar said:


This is a very impressive one.


It is.

Is it a very old one from Curiosity? I’m asking because early on, it saw some good rock formations before going back to play in the sand pit. It’s be good if it did some valuable geology work again.

Michael V said:


Spiny Norman said:

btm said:

How does the helicopter avoid ground resonance? I know a good pilot can avoid or mitigate it, and recover from it if he/she’s quick enough, but the Ingenuity helicopter is autonomous.

See http://airflightdisaster.com/?p=19669 for a video of a human-controlled helicopter experiencing catastrophic ground resonance.

It’d be too small & stiff to suffer from that. And I imagine that the resonant frequency would be too high for rotors of that size anyway.

Does having a pair of counter-rotating rotors help solve this problem?

Yes. The counter rotation halps a lot with stability.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 07:31:55
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1744705
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Michael V said:


Spiny Norman said:

btm said:

How does the helicopter avoid ground resonance? I know a good pilot can avoid or mitigate it, and recover from it if he/she’s quick enough, but the Ingenuity helicopter is autonomous.

See http://airflightdisaster.com/?p=19669 for a video of a human-controlled helicopter experiencing catastrophic ground resonance.

It’d be too small & stiff to suffer from that. And I imagine that the resonant frequency would be too high for rotors of that size anyway.

Does having a pair of counter-rotating rotors help solve this problem?

I’m not sure sorry. Each rotor would certainly have its own resonant frequency, they might cancel out or even double-up on each other … ?

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 07:34:36
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1744707
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

dv said:


mollwollfumble said:

More from NASA.

Nasa’s SOFIA, the giant telescope aboard a modified jumbo jet, hasn’t been all that successful.

But here is one recent image from SOFIA, showing the magnetic fields in that famous giant globular galaxy with radio jets, that brightest radio source outside our galaxy, Centaurus A.


That’s amazing

The large version is even better, for showing magentic lines of force. Screenshot below of part of the image.

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2104/CenA_SofiaPlusB_2480.jpg

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 08:24:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1744722
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Michael V said:

Does having a pair of counter-rotating rotors help solve this problem?

Co-axial rotors also eliminate the need for a tail rotor, and keep the overall length of the machine down to a minimum.

The Russian Kamov Ka-25 and Ka-278 helicopters use this.

They’re dumpy-lookin’ but they get the job done, although savings in length are somewhat sacrificed to a cost in height.

The American Kaman H-43 rescue/firefighting helicopter had a slightly different approach:

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 08:29:57
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1744724
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

If it’s ground resonance you want, the Republic XF-84H was your plane.

!!

An F-84 Thunderstreak jet had a supersonic-rotating propellor installed in its nose. Potentially a world-record aircraft, it had the disadvantage that the ground resonance it set up was sto great that it made ground crew physically sick.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 08:33:51
From: Tamb
ID: 1744727
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

captain_spalding said:


Michael V said:

Does having a pair of counter-rotating rotors help solve this problem?

Co-axial rotors also eliminate the need for a tail rotor, and keep the overall length of the machine down to a minimum.

The Russian Kamov Ka-25 and Ka-278 helicopters use this.

They’re dumpy-lookin’ but they get the job done, although savings in length are somewhat sacrificed to a cost in height.

The American Kaman H-43 rescue/firefighting helicopter had a slightly different approach:

Not sure if the Chinook’s blades contra rotate

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 09:02:57
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1744735
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Tamb said:


captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Does having a pair of counter-rotating rotors help solve this problem?

Co-axial rotors also eliminate the need for a tail rotor, and keep the overall length of the machine down to a minimum.

The Russian Kamov Ka-25 and Ka-278 helicopters use this.

They’re dumpy-lookin’ but they get the job done, although savings in length are somewhat sacrificed to a cost in height.

The American Kaman H-43 rescue/firefighting helicopter had a slightly different approach:

Not sure if the Chinook’s blades contra rotate

Yes they do.

And they are great for getting bad ground resonance!

OUCH!!

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 09:19:00
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1744738
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Spiny Norman said:


Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Co-axial rotors also eliminate the need for a tail rotor, and keep the overall length of the machine down to a minimum.

The Russian Kamov Ka-25 and Ka-278 helicopters use this.

They’re dumpy-lookin’ but they get the job done, although savings in length are somewhat sacrificed to a cost in height.

The American Kaman H-43 rescue/firefighting helicopter had a slightly different approach:

Not sure if the Chinook’s blades contra rotate

Yes they do.

And they are great for getting bad ground resonance!

OUCH!!

Oh dear. It’s like one of those washing machine videos where they put a brick in it.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 09:22:56
From: Tamb
ID: 1744742
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Bubblecar said:


Spiny Norman said:

Tamb said:

Not sure if the Chinook’s blades contra rotate

Yes they do.

And they are great for getting bad ground resonance!

OUCH!!

Oh dear. It’s like one of those washing machine videos where they put a brick in it.


Would changing the rpm alter the oscillation?
Like the 40hp VWs would get a resonance in the crankshaft which could break the shaft unless the rpm was altered quite quickly.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 09:25:56
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1744744
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Tamb said:


Bubblecar said:

Spiny Norman said:

Yes they do.

And they are great for getting bad ground resonance!

OUCH!!

Oh dear. It’s like one of those washing machine videos where they put a brick in it.


Would changing the rpm alter the oscillation?
Like the 40hp VWs would get a resonance in the crankshaft which could break the shaft unless the rpm was altered quite quickly.

The only way out of that situation is to get the chopper into the air, away from the ground. And you need to do that very quickly.
Tying the Chinook to the ground made doing that just a bit more difficult!

Reply Quote

Date: 30/05/2021 09:27:39
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1744745
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

FWIW here’s a video of a quick-acting pilot saving the machine from destruction by ground resonance.

McGyver your way out of it

Reply Quote

Date: 10/09/2022 17:06:42
From: dv
ID: 1930990
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Ingenuity helicopter heads toward ancient river delta on 31st Martian flight

By Mike Wall

 published about 11 hours ago

The Tuesday (Sept. 6) flight covered 318 feet (97 meters) of Martian ground.

https://www.space.com/mars-helicopter-ingenuity-31st-flight-river-delta

This is cool and all but I do hope one day they send a copter or balloon to the Valles Marineris. Hundreds of millions of years of Martian geological history laid out on a plate.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/09/2022 17:09:37
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1930991
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

dv said:


Ingenuity helicopter heads toward ancient river delta on 31st Martian flight

By Mike Wall

 published about 11 hours ago

The Tuesday (Sept. 6) flight covered 318 feet (97 meters) of Martian ground.

https://www.space.com/mars-helicopter-ingenuity-31st-flight-river-delta

This is cool and all but I do hope one day they send a copter or balloon to the Valles Marineris. Hundreds of millions of years of Martian geological history laid out on a plate.

Should I pass on Elon’s number?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/09/2022 17:25:58
From: dv
ID: 1930996
Subject: re: Ingenuity oops

Witty Rejoinder said:


dv said:

Ingenuity helicopter heads toward ancient river delta on 31st Martian flight

By Mike Wall

 published about 11 hours ago

The Tuesday (Sept. 6) flight covered 318 feet (97 meters) of Martian ground.

https://www.space.com/mars-helicopter-ingenuity-31st-flight-river-delta

This is cool and all but I do hope one day they send a copter or balloon to the Valles Marineris. Hundreds of millions of years of Martian geological history laid out on a plate.

Should I pass on Elon’s number?

No need, I’ll get it from sibeen

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