I have seen a couple of references recently to Garrett Hardin’s essay “The Tragedy of the Commons”, and I realised I had never read it.

So now I have downloaded it.

I may even read it.

The Tragedy of the Commons

So what do you think?

Worth reading?

The Rev Dodgson said:

I have seen a couple of references recently to Garrett Hardin’s essay “The Tragedy of the Commons”, and I realised I had never read it.

So now I have downloaded it.

I may even read it.

The Tragedy of the Commons

So what do you think?

Worth reading?

I suppose that means we have to read it too?

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I have seen a couple of references recently to Garrett Hardin’s essay “The Tragedy of the Commons”, and I realised I had never read it.

So now I have downloaded it.

I may even read it.

The Tragedy of the Commons

So what do you think?

Worth reading?

I suppose that means we have to read it too?

it’s only seven pages.

JudgeMental said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I have seen a couple of references recently to Garrett Hardin’s essay “The Tragedy of the Commons”, and I realised I had never read it.

So now I have downloaded it.

I may even read it.

The Tragedy of the Commons

So what do you think?

Worth reading?

I suppose that means we have to read it too?

it’s only seven pages.

True.

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I have seen a couple of references recently to Garrett Hardin’s essay “The Tragedy of the Commons”, and I realised I had never read it.

So now I have downloaded it.

I may even read it.

The Tragedy of the Commons

So what do you think?

Worth reading?

I suppose that means we have to read it too?

It remains a matter of personal choice.

So has anyone here read it already?

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

That’s another 68 pages, dammit!

(BTA)

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I have seen a couple of references recently to Garrett Hardin’s essay “The Tragedy of the Commons”, and I realised I had never read it.

So now I have downloaded it.

I may even read it.

The Tragedy of the Commons

So what do you think?

Worth reading?

I suppose that means we have to read it too?

It remains a matter of personal choice.

So has anyone here read it already?

I’ll be reading it today sometime maybe.

The Rev Dodgson said:

I have seen a couple of references recently to Garrett Hardin’s essay “The Tragedy of the Commons”, and I realised I had never read it.

So now I have downloaded it.

I may even read it.

The Tragedy of the Commons

So what do you think?

Worth reading?

Yes

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

That’s another 68 pages, dammit!

(BTA)

what are we missing it looks like 2 pages to us

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

That’s another 68 pages, dammit!

(BTA)

what are we missing it looks like 2 pages to us

Try downloading it.

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

That’s another 68 pages, dammit!

(BTA)

what are we missing it looks like 2 pages to us

Did you click download?

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

Have Mein Kampf. Mrs rb studied it but I’ve never read it.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

Have Mein Kampf. Mrs rb studied it but I’ve never read it.

I’ve read bits of them both but they are pretty dry reading.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s another 68 pages, dammit!

(BTA)

what are we missing it looks like 2 pages to us

Did you click download?

He/she obviously didn’t

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

Have Mein Kampf. Mrs rb studied it but I’ve never read it.

I’ve read bits of them both but they are pretty dry reading.

I couldn’t get into it.. no.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s another 68 pages, dammit!

(BTA)

what are we missing it looks like 2 pages to us

Did you click download?

You’re right, they’re about 11 pages each.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Have Mein Kampf. Mrs rb studied it but I’ve never read it.

I’ve read bits of them both but they are pretty dry reading.

I couldn’t get into it.. no.

especially Mein Kampf, dry tinder

anyway, we thought it was illegal

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

I’ve read bits of them both but they are pretty dry reading.

I couldn’t get into it.. no.

especially Mein Kampf, dry tinder

anyway, we thought it was illegal

It’s a black comedy isn’t it

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

we read Kaiser’s Der Bürgerkrieg and Die Eroberung von Gallien, and Что дѣлать? Наболѣвшіе вопросы нашего движенія Ленина but at a time when we probably didn’t geddit

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

I’ve read bits of them both but they are pretty dry reading.

I couldn’t get into it.. no.

especially Mein Kampf, dry tinder

anyway, we thought it was illegal

Angus & Robertson $65.75

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

Yes, both worth reading. It’s worthwhile understanding the background of major political trends.

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

I couldn’t get into it.. no.

especially Mein Kampf, dry tinder

anyway, we thought it was illegal

It’s a black comedy isn’t it

no, that’s chow mien kampf

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

Couldn’t find a free download for Kahn (assuming we are talking The Tyranny of Small Decisions here,) but this link has a free download that mentions him:

http://www.onlyoneplanet.com/Tyranny_of_small_decisions.doc

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

No interest in reading those.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

you know what since we’re making these kinds of admissions we haven’t read Kahn 1966 either and this line is a tragedy of the commas

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

No interest in reading those.

So “Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento” The Fascist Manifesto is off your reading list also?

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

I couldn’t get into it.. no.

especially Mein Kampf, dry tinder

anyway, we thought it was illegal

Angus & Robertson $65.75

maybe after Feynman and Hofstadter and a few others

also haven’t read most of these https://web.archive.org/web/20160203214917/http://www.lib.unimelb.edu.au/collections/special/exhibitions/bannedbooks/exhibition/australia.html

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

No interest in reading those.

So “Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento” The Fascist Manifesto is off your reading list also?

Yes

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

No interest in reading those.

So “Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento” The Fascist Manifesto is off your reading list also?

Yes

50 shades of grey as well

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

How about Das Kapital & Mein Kampf?

No interest in reading those.

So “Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento” The Fascist Manifesto is off your reading list also?

yes

we find most of those (and even more contemporary) rather verbose to no particular avail

one day we’ll send y’all a list or image of the book collection we’ve scraped together over the past few years, it’s probably going to be left mostly unread still

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

No interest in reading those.

So “Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento” The Fascist Manifesto is off your reading list also?

Yes

what about Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson by George Gurdjieff?

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

So “Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento” The Fascist Manifesto is off your reading list also?

Yes

what about Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson by George Gurdjieff?

Well it sounds like it might be worth a read, but I know nothing about it.

The reason for reading TTotC is that I have heard it mentioned many times over the last 50 years or so, in the context of environmental preservation, but reading the Wikipedia article on it, it sounds like it may not be saying what I thought it did.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes

what about Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson by George Gurdjieff?

Well it sounds like it might be worth a read, but I know nothing about it.

The reason for reading TTotC is that I have heard it mentioned many times over the last 50 years or so, in the context of environmental preservation, but reading the Wikipedia article on it, it sounds like it may not be saying what I thought it did.

oh but that applies to almost everything commonly cited in the popular media

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

what about Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson by George Gurdjieff?

Well it sounds like it might be worth a read, but I know nothing about it.

The reason for reading TTotC is that I have heard it mentioned many times over the last 50 years or so, in the context of environmental preservation, but reading the Wikipedia article on it, it sounds like it may not be saying what I thought it did.

oh but that applies to almost everything commonly cited in the popular media

True :)

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

So “Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento” The Fascist Manifesto is off your reading list also?

Yes

50 shades of grey as well

no

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

First line. “We have seen that the increase of food cannot keep pace with the theoretical rate of increase of population”.

Straight out of Malthus. Refuted by H.G.Wells. Also refuted by modern experience. For some reason I don’t claim to fully understand, the increase of food so far exceeds the rate of increase of population that farmers are occasionally paid not to grow food. Paid to carbon capture instead.

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

First line. “We have seen that the increase of food cannot keep pace with the theoretical rate of increase of population”.

Straight out of Malthus. Refuted by H.G.Wells. Also refuted by modern experience. For some reason I don’t claim to fully understand, the increase of food so far exceeds the rate of increase of population that farmers are occasionally paid not to grow food. Paid to carbon capture instead.

Of course it hasn’t been refuted.

It’s just the timing that is open to doubt.

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

First line. “We have seen that the increase of food cannot keep pace with the theoretical rate of increase of population”.

Straight out of Malthus. Refuted by H.G.Wells. Also refuted by modern experience. For some reason I don’t claim to fully understand, the increase of food so far exceeds the rate of increase of population that farmers are occasionally paid not to grow food. Paid to carbon capture instead.

“the poverty and hard living, which in many cases operate to the destruction of life, have in other cases the effect of diminishing fecundity.”

Again this has proved to be false. Poverty stricken areas have higher fecundity than wealthy areas. We also see this in plants, animals, and even bacteria as well. When conditions for life are hard and the death rate is high, the birth rate rises to match and vice versa.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

and if anyone wants to read the original idea

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Two_Lectures_on_the_Checks_to_Population/Lecture_1

First line. “We have seen that the increase of food cannot keep pace with the theoretical rate of increase of population”.

Straight out of Malthus. Refuted by H.G.Wells. Also refuted by modern experience. For some reason I don’t claim to fully understand, the increase of food so far exceeds the rate of increase of population that farmers are occasionally paid not to grow food. Paid to carbon capture instead.

“the poverty and hard living, which in many cases operate to the destruction of life, have in other cases the effect of diminishing fecundity.”

Again this has proved to be false. Poverty stricken areas have higher fecundity than wealthy areas. We also see this in plants, animals, and even bacteria as well. When conditions for life are hard and the death rate is high, the birth rate rises to match and vice versa.

Lack of other entertainment as well

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

So this is not about the house of commons.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

So this is not about the house of commons.

Only somewhat indirectly.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

So this is not about the house of commons.

good lords, no!

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

Yes. I want my 10 minutes back.

Ian said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

Yes. I want my 10 minutes back.

In another ten years China is going to be making it mandatory to have at least three kids…

Bogsnorkler said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

So this is not about the house of commons.

good lords, no!

comedy

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

so you think COVID-19 was a missed opportunity

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So I have finished reading the Hardin paper.

First I should say I had no idea that his publications were “frank in their racism and quasi-fascist ethnonationalism” (from TATE). I did see some hint of that in the paper itself, but not in any way that I would call openly racist or quasi-fascist.

The paper I thought a mixture of common sense and ridiculous extension of questionable assertions, with some extreme either-orism thrown in.

It was also pretty light on details of how the coercive limits on population should be implemented.

so you think COVID-19 was a missed opportunity

Seems likely that the real number of excess deaths during the COVID era is circa 8 million so far

reading that, cheers

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

Ogmog said:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

It is something to consider, fed up with life, body failing, little money to enjoy anything, euthanise oneself

Ogmog said:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement

Cymek said:

Ogmog said:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

It is something to consider, fed up with life, body failing, little money to enjoy anything, euthanise oneself

Nup, it’s not about offing yerself…
it’s about the conscious commitment to not reproduce

Ogmog said:

Cymek said:

Ogmog said:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

It is something to consider, fed up with life, body failing, little money to enjoy anything, euthanise oneself

Nup, it’s not about offing yerself…
it’s about the conscious commitment to not reproduce

The problem being that most people don’t or cannot refuse a fuck.

Ogmog said:

Cymek said:

Ogmog said:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

It is something to consider, fed up with life, body failing, little money to enjoy anything, euthanise oneself

Nup, it’s not about offing yerself…
it’s about the conscious commitment to not reproduce

so the smart people are too busy and preoccupied to reproduce, the middling intelligence people understand this commitment business to not reproduce, and the geniuses at the bottom have no such hang ups and get it on nice one

roughbarked said:

Ogmog said:

Cymek said:

It is something to consider, fed up with life, body failing, little money to enjoy anything, euthanise oneself

Nup, it’s not about offing yerself…
it’s about the conscious commitment to not reproduce

The problem being that most people don’t or cannot refuse a fuck.

Contraception including sterilisation should be free, I bet a significant amount of pregnancies aren’t planned

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Ogmog said:

Nup, it’s not about offing yerself…
it’s about the conscious commitment to not reproduce

The problem being that most people don’t or cannot refuse a fuck.

Contraception including sterilisation should be free, I bet a significant amount of pregnancies aren’t planned

Gough tried to make education free.
Educated people have less children.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Ogmog said:

Nup, it’s not about offing yerself…
it’s about the conscious commitment to not reproduce

The problem being that most people don’t or cannot refuse a fuck.

Contraception including sterilisation should be free, I bet a significant amount of pregnancies aren’t planned

https://www.twincities.com/2021/06/03/michael-mcgough-reversing-roe-v-wade-would-be-wrong-but-it-wouldnt-be-anti-democratic/

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

The problem being that most people don’t or cannot refuse a fuck.

Contraception including sterilisation should be free, I bet a significant amount of pregnancies aren’t planned

Gough tried to make education free.
Educated people have less children.

thank goodness the uneducated are better parents

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Contraception including sterilisation should be free, I bet a significant amount of pregnancies aren’t planned

Gough tried to make education free.
Educated people have less children.

thank goodness the uneducated are better parents

Perhaps a good place to start is stamping out stupit Fucking Catholics /-:<

Ogmog said:

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Gough tried to make education free.
Educated people have less children.

thank goodness the uneducated are better parents

Perhaps a good place to start is stamping out stupit Fucking Catholics /-:<

that escalated quickly

Arts said:

Ogmog said:

SCIENCE said:

thank goodness the uneducated are better parents

Perhaps a good place to start is stamping out stupit Fucking Catholics /-:<

that escalated quickly

I was discussing over population problems with a Protestant minister and he made a good point;
He said; “When God instructed man to ‘Be Fruitful, Multiple and Fill the Earth’ one can imagine
your father asked for a glass of water he’d take for granted you’d stop pouring at some point.”

Whereas Catholics never picked up on the collusion between Church & State designed to keep
churning out a never ending supply of fighting men, peasants (cheap labour) tax payers & tithes.

jest to lighten things back up

Ogmog said:

Arts said:

Ogmog said:

Perhaps a good place to start is stamping out stupit Fucking Catholics /-:<

that escalated quickly

I was discussing over population problems with a Protestant minister and he made a good point;
He said; “When God instructed man to ‘Be Fruitful, Multiple and Fill the Earth’ one can imagine
your father asked for a glass of water he’d take for granted you’d stop pouring at some point.”

Whereas Catholics never picked up on the collusion between Church & State designed to keep
churning out a never ending supply of fighting men, peasants (cheap labour) tax payers & tithes.

jest to lighten things back up

Whilst I don’t agree with Hardin’s main point in that article (which seems to be that worldwide control of reproduction rates by government regulation is a necessity), I do think that the long-term problem created by the combination of inheritance of genes and inheritance of cultural forces to have lots of kids does require more attention than it gets. I’m not sure what can be done about that, but examination of how the Catholic countries in Europe seem to have the lowest birth rates might be a good place to start.

and furthermore, you can never have too much Monty Python

The Rev Dodgson said:

Ogmog said:

Arts said:

that escalated quickly

I was discussing over population problems with a Protestant minister and he made a good point;
He said; “When God instructed man to ‘Be Fruitful, Multiple and Fill the Earth’ one can imagine
your father asked for a glass of water he’d take for granted you’d stop pouring at some point.”

Whereas Catholics never picked up on the collusion between Church & State designed to keep
churning out a never ending supply of fighting men, peasants (cheap labour) tax payers & tithes.

jest to lighten things back up

Whilst I don’t agree with Hardin’s main point in that article (which seems to be that worldwide control of reproduction rates by government regulation is a necessity), I do think that the long-term problem created by the combination of inheritance of genes and inheritance of cultural forces to have lots of kids does require more attention than it gets. I’m not sure what can be done about that, but examination of how the Catholic countries in Europe seem to have the lowest birth rates might be a good place to start.

and furthermore, you can never have too much Monty Python

I this about the Chinese government lifting of the number of children per family from two to three? Because the population is shrinking too rapidly?

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Ogmog said:

I was discussing over population problems with a Protestant minister and he made a good point;
He said; “When God instructed man to ‘Be Fruitful, Multiple and Fill the Earth’ one can imagine
your father asked for a glass of water he’d take for granted you’d stop pouring at some point.”

Whereas Catholics never picked up on the collusion between Church & State designed to keep
churning out a never ending supply of fighting men, peasants (cheap labour) tax payers & tithes.

jest to lighten things back up

Whilst I don’t agree with Hardin’s main point in that article (which seems to be that worldwide control of reproduction rates by government regulation is a necessity), I do think that the long-term problem created by the combination of inheritance of genes and inheritance of cultural forces to have lots of kids does require more attention than it gets. I’m not sure what can be done about that, but examination of how the Catholic countries in Europe seem to have the lowest birth rates might be a good place to start.

and furthermore, you can never have too much Monty Python

I this about the Chinese government lifting of the number of children per family from two to three? Because the population is shrinking too rapidly?

Well it’s not shrinking at all yet, but I have no doubt they have done their numbers and are aiming for a stable population in 30 years or so.

I think one of the biggest troubles, of the momentum of humans, the work of humans, their numbers, but more to and of the work of minds, is that not much is left outside that, outside the work of minds, that ‘nature’ in that sense becomes increasingly scarce

I didn’t get much useful from the broader use of commons as it were used in what I read, ultimately it lends more to what I mention above, or potentially does