https://womensagenda.com.au/latest/the-morrison-government-decided-to-do-a-womens-budget-statement-just-weeks-before-budget/

https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2021/06/05/notice-of-a-constitutional-matter-filed-and-served-in-the-christian-porter-v-abc-matter-regarding-the-suppressed-documents-it-is-not-over-yet/

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-08/victorian-government-mps-demand-apology-from-opposition/100199110

so did they deserve it

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-08/victorian-government-mps-demand-apology-from-opposition/100199110

so did they deserve it

Well, in theory it does have other practical uses which are entirely legitimate. It is a matter of which is the major use category.

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-08/victorian-government-mps-demand-apology-from-opposition/100199110

so did they deserve it

https://m.facebook.com/jon.bergman.184/posts/10226604457080828?d=m&vh=i

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-08/victorian-government-mps-demand-apology-from-opposition/100199110

so did they deserve it

Well, in theory it does have other practical uses which are entirely legitimate. It is a matter of which is the major use category.

I don’t understand you. And what is “it”?

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

so did they deserve it

Well, in theory it does have other practical uses which are entirely legitimate. It is a matter of which is the major use category.

I don’t understand you. And what is “it”?

Ooops, sorry. I quoted the wrong post. This was meant to be a follow-on to the bitcoin stuff in chat.

party_pants said:

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

Well, in theory it does have other practical uses which are entirely legitimate. It is a matter of which is the major use category.

I don’t understand you. And what is “it”?

Ooops, sorry. I quoted the wrong post. This was meant to be a follow-on to the bitcoin stuff in chat.

Ah. Thanks.

for no reason

SCIENCE said:

I reckon the election is this year. That’s the only reason they would be talaking about shutting down this conversation by actually doing something.

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

I reckon the election is this year. That’s the only reason they would be talaking about shutting down this conversation by actually doing something.

For a government who has done some pretty shitty things, this is the shittiest of the shitty.

dv said:

Looxury! How many other maximum security prisoners get to walk on the beach?

Dark Orange said:

dv said:

Looxury! How many other maximum security prisoners get to walk on the beach?

Maximum security still applies, of course. You’d have reasonable access to books. Best of all, though, one week of the year, you’d get to leave the hospital and go here (Plum Island), every day of that week, you may walk on the beach. You may swim in the ocean for up to one hour. Under SWAT team surveillance, of course.

furious said:

Dark Orange said:

dv said:

Looxury! How many other maximum security prisoners get to walk on the beach?

Maximum security still applies, of course. You’d have reasonable access to books. Best of all, though, one week of the year, you’d get to leave the hospital and go here (Plum Island), every day of that week, you may walk on the beach. You may swim in the ocean for up to one hour. Under SWAT team surveillance, of course.

Thank you, Clarice.

dv said:

How the f#&k does a mp get to decide medical treatment for anyone, regardless of their immigration status. That’s many levels of wrong…

furious said:

dv said:

How the f#&k does a mp get to decide medical treatment for anyone, regardless of their immigration status. That’s many levels of wrong…

+ absolute shitloads

If true.

furious said:

Dark Orange said:

dv said:

Looxury! How many other maximum security prisoners get to walk on the beach?

Maximum security still applies, of course. You’d have reasonable access to books. Best of all, though, one week of the year, you’d get to leave the hospital and go here (Plum Island), every day of that week, you may walk on the beach. You may swim in the ocean for up to one hour. Under SWAT team surveillance, of course.

heh

furious said:

dv said:

How the f#&k does a mp get to decide medical treatment for anyone, regardless of their immigration status. That’s many levels of wrong…

It is a social media post with no reference, so…

Dark Orange said:

furious said:

dv said:

How the f#&k does a mp get to decide medical treatment for anyone, regardless of their immigration status. That’s many levels of wrong…

It is a social media post with no reference, so…

But it isn’t the first time the minister has decided on this shit and now the laws have been rewritten to the point that the minister has more power than ever. the only one that didn’t pass was the one that was going to take all the phones away.

Dark Orange said:

furious said:

dv said:

How the f#&k does a mp get to decide medical treatment for anyone, regardless of their immigration status. That’s many levels of wrong…

It is a social media post with no reference, so…

If I can’t trust a random post, reposting a random post, then what has the world become?

Quite apart from the detention issue…

Maybe they need to upgrade medical facilities on Christmas island…

dv said:

Quite apart from the detention issue…

Maybe they need to upgrade medical facilities on Christmas island…

After all the milliions spent?

dv said:

Quite apart from the detention issue…

Maybe they need to upgrade medical facilities on Christmas island…

it won’t help having the facilities if some politician can issue an order that they not be used.

dv said:

This news site suggests a different, but no less acceptable, (and in no way contradictory) lead-up:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/biloela-youngest-daughter-medically-evacuated-to-perth-from-christmas-island/22fab0f3-aaca-40db-b351-40f7f5bb06a6

Tharnicaa fell ill on May 25 but her mother said detention staff brushed off requests for her to be taken to hospital, instead giving her Panadol and Nurofen, Ms Fredericks said. When the young girl’s temperature eventually passed 40 degrees, she was given medical attention. After a chest x-ray came back with concerning results a medical evacuation was arranged.

And elsewhere, politicians are attempting satire:

A Department of Home Affairs spokesperson confirmed a minor had been medically evacuated from Christmas Island to a Western Australian hospital but declined to comment further on the incident citing privacy reasons.

“Healthcare services for detainees on Christmas Island are broadly comparable with those available within the Australian community under the Australian public health system,” they said.

“The Australian Border Force facilitates access to nurses, doctors and specialists for all members of the family.”

Dark Orange said:

dv said:

This news site suggests a different, but no less acceptable, (and in no way contradictory) lead-up:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/biloela-youngest-daughter-medically-evacuated-to-perth-from-christmas-island/22fab0f3-aaca-40db-b351-40f7f5bb06a6

Tharnicaa fell ill on May 25 but her mother said detention staff brushed off requests for her to be taken to hospital, instead giving her Panadol and Nurofen, Ms Fredericks said. When the young girl’s temperature eventually passed 40 degrees, she was given medical attention. After a chest x-ray came back with concerning results a medical evacuation was arranged.

And elsewhere, politicians are attempting satire:

A Department of Home Affairs spokesperson confirmed a minor had been medically evacuated from Christmas Island to a Western Australian hospital but declined to comment further on the incident citing privacy reasons.

“Healthcare services for detainees on Christmas Island are broadly comparable with those available within the Australian community under the Australian public health system,” they said.

“The Australian Border Force facilitates access to nurses, doctors and specialists for all members of the family.”

Slack bastards don’t want to look as if they are losing face over their stance on all boat people and are happy to ruin the lives of the very young in order to facillitate their non-humanitarian ways.

Updated Trigger and Restrictable Payments lists.
June 2021.

sarahs mum said:

Updated Trigger and Restrictable Payments lists.
June 2021.

Seems to me that bartering can overcome these restrictions.

I should develop an app for that, to connect pensioners with non pensioners for trade.

sarahs mum said:

Updated Trigger and Restrictable Payments lists.
June 2021.

Is this for Indue?

dv said:

sarahs mum said:

Updated Trigger and Restrictable Payments lists.
June 2021.

Seems to me that bartering can overcome these restrictions.

I should develop an app for that, to connect pensioners with non pensioners for trade.

I look at that advanced payment and think back to how it was introduced with some kindness. This meant that someone could get a grand up front and do emergency stuff with it. The last time I accessed it was when my satellite dish fried. But it is often used to get a cheap clunker so people can still get around.

Getting an advance payment is no longer able to be had in cash so it won’t buy a second hand clunker anymore. It is also seen by Indue as proof that you are not able to look after your money and so anyone having taken one in the past will be refused an exit from the card.

dv said:

sarahs mum said:

Updated Trigger and Restrictable Payments lists.
June 2021.

Is this for Indue?

Yep.
Basics card is NT only and 50/50

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

sarahs mum said:

Updated Trigger and Restrictable Payments lists.
June 2021.

Seems to me that bartering can overcome these restrictions.

I should develop an app for that, to connect pensioners with non pensioners for trade.

I look at that advanced payment and think back to how it was introduced with some kindness. This meant that someone could get a grand up front and do emergency stuff with it. The last time I accessed it was when my satellite dish fried. But it is often used to get a cheap clunker so people can still get around.

Getting an advance payment is no longer able to be had in cash so it won’t buy a second hand clunker anymore. It is also seen by Indue as proof that you are not able to look after your money and so anyone having taken one in the past will be refused an exit from the card.

Thank heavens crime is still around

https://twitter.com/jelliotmp/status/1402502746314395651

sarahs mum said:

https://twitter.com/jelliotmp/status/1402502746314395651

Justine Elliot
@JElliotMP
·
4h
I WILL NOT BE SILENCED

My electorate office today received a call from a senior ministerial staffer in the Morrison Government demanding I take down my Facebook post in relation to the Morrison Government’s cruel plan to force pensioners onto the Cashless Welfare Card. (1/3)

SN7 Seedling
thesayno7 · 3h Replying to JElliotMP
The only prob we have with this meme is that it was Ruston not Morrison that said this in the SMH article.
When asked DIRECTLY she refused to RULE OUT Age pensions going on the card in national roll out and then this last week:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

sarahs mum said:

Rather odd that everyone seems to think he’s got to go, when he’d probably win an election if it were held now.

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

well yes, they get shot in other countries not far from here.

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

I think that is the point. There is an election just around the corner. If everything goes to plan.

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

Next 6 months they say….

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

Next 6 months they say….

There is going to be a lot of attack advertising.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

Next 6 months they say….

There is going to be a lot of attack advertising.

Yay! I can’t wait….

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

I assume you’re a New Australian. In democracies like this, especially during elections, those who don’t support the government often contend that “this government (or PM etc) has to go”, i.e., that people shouldn’t vote for it.

Bubblecar said:

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

I assume you’re a New Australian. In democracies like this, especially during elections, those who don’t support the government often contend that “this government (or PM etc) has to go”, i.e., that people shouldn’t vote for it.

Some people would be grateful. This is what most of the political discourse in the country looks like:

Bubblecar said:

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

I assume you’re a New Australian. In democracies like this, especially during elections, those who don’t support the government often contend that “this government (or PM etc) has to go”, i.e., that people shouldn’t vote for it.

Oh, I could see it being used as election advertising during an actual election campaign – by a political party that cannot in fact afford to employ an advertising company and left it to Stuart in the local MP’s office to organise it; but otherwise it is just naff. All IMO, of course.

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

sibeen said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

I assume you’re a New Australian. In democracies like this, especially during elections, those who don’t support the government often contend that “this government (or PM etc) has to go”, i.e., that people shouldn’t vote for it.

Some people would be grateful. This is what most of the political discourse in the country looks like:

That is one of those memes designed to piss people off.

sibeen said:

Bubblecar said:

sibeen said:

As much as I cannot stand the bloke I think that one is rather stupid. We have elections.

I assume you’re a New Australian. In democracies like this, especially during elections, those who don’t support the government often contend that “this government (or PM etc) has to go”, i.e., that people shouldn’t vote for it.

Oh, I could see it being used as election advertising during an actual election campaign – by a political party that cannot in fact afford to employ an advertising company and left it to Stuart in the local MP’s office to organise it; but otherwise it is just naff. All IMO, of course.

If Labor have any sense they’ll be running the mother of all (justified) scare campaigns, pointing out the ongoing collapse of Medicare under this government, the likely introduction of Indue for age pensioners etc etc.

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

dv said:

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

It is just inhumane. This family are clearly genuine accepted Aussies in their chosen town and fer cry’s sake, that’s not easy even for legal immigrants to do in this country.

The rockers up or waltzers in should be easy to tag and delete.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

It is just inhumane. This family are clearly genuine accepted Aussies in their chosen town and fer cry’s sake, that’s not easy even for legal immigrants to do in this country.

The rockers up or waltzers in should be easy to tag and delete.

At least the US did not Guantanemo the little children.

We are the real scum.

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

It is just inhumane. This family are clearly genuine accepted Aussies in their chosen town and fer cry’s sake, that’s not easy even for legal immigrants to do in this country.

The rockers up or waltzers in should be easy to tag and delete.

At least the US did not Guantanemo the little children.

We are the real scum.

Although Trump got a lost of children lost in cages around the country.

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

It is just inhumane. This family are clearly genuine accepted Aussies in their chosen town and fer cry’s sake, that’s not easy even for legal immigrants to do in this country.

The rockers up or waltzers in should be easy to tag and delete.

At least the US did not Guantanemo the little children.

We are the real scum.

I’m willing to accept that it is our current government who are the scum.

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

It is just inhumane. This family are clearly genuine accepted Aussies in their chosen town and fer cry’s sake, that’s not easy even for legal immigrants to do in this country.

The rockers up or waltzers in should be easy to tag and delete.

At least the US did not Guantanemo the little children.

We are the real scum.

I’m willing to accept that it is our current government who are the scum.

In the Govt’s defense, the family weren’t waterboarded.

Whilst Australian citizenship began as jus soli, granted to all Australian-born children, it did not last long. In 1986, the Australian parliament amended the Australian Citizenship Act to implement citizenship based on ‘jus sanguinis’ (‘law by blood’), under which citizenship is determined by looking to the citizenship of the parents. Jus sanguinis citizenship is common practice across the globe, including the UK, New Zealand and Ireland.

Why was birthright citizenship abolished?

The 1986 Amendment begs the question: what prompted the Australian parliament to abolish pure jus soli citizenship? The amendment was primarily catalysed by the 1985 case of Kioa v West where the government argued that jus soli citizenship was being abused to obtain an immigration advantage.

Kioa was a Tongan citizen who overstayed his student visa and subsequently had a daughter born in Australia. Kioa unsuccessfully argued that as an Australian citizen under the principle of jus soli, his daughter was entitled to a legitimate expectation of continued residence in Australia, despite the deportation order against her parents. 
As a result of this high-profile case, the Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs at the time declared that jus soli citizenship was:

“a generosity in our law can be exploited by visitors and illegal immigrants who have children born here in order to seek to achieve residence in Australia”.

The amendment had widespread bipartisan support and appeared to be motivated by xenophobic fear-mongering that the country was overrun by “illegal immigrants”.

The relatively open immigration policy of Australia post-WWII, prompted by a labour shortage and need to increase the population, was beginning to lose its appeal among the Australian community by the 1970s and 1980s. As Asian immigration to Australia rapidly increased and anti-Asian sentiment took hold, the 1986 amendment to citizenship was introduced.

Jus sanguinis citizenship is often highly politicised and can be informed by racialised perceptions of who “deserves” to be a citizen. According to Professor Kim Rubenstein, the term “citizenship” was deliberately left out of our Constitution in 1901 because it was politically fraught with different understandings of the meaning and value of citizenship. For instance, granting citizenship to all British subjects was perceived as problematic because this would open the door for Australian citizenship to people from the British colonies of India and Hong Kong – a highly contentious and political issue in the era of the White Australia Policy.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

At least the US did not Guantanemo the little children.

We are the real scum.

I’m willing to accept that it is our current government who are the scum.

In the Govt’s defense, the family weren’t waterboarded.

That’s the gold package, they only had silver

dv said:

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

Another logical phallacy?

Ian said:

dv said:

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

Another logical phallacy?

Polite way of saying dick brain?

Ian said:

dv said:

Caving to Biloela Family will set expectation that anyone can spend 3 years locked on an island with a rare blood infection

The Government says it cannot give in to the demands of those seeking resettlement of the Biloela family in Australia, pointing out that it will set an expectation that anyone who spends three years locked on an island under armed guard while witnessing their three-year-old child contract a life-threatening blood infection and untreated pneumonia will be allowed into the country.

“We let one family in and all of a sudden we have thousands of families arriving at our doorstep saying, ‘lock me up in a cage’,” a Home Affairs spokesperson said.

“I understand people’s sympathies for this family, but if we fail to send a message now, then we’ll have people just waltzing on in, saying ‘all I have to do to get into this country is watch my children grow up in a prison without proper medical care and I’m in’. It’ll be a free-for-all”.  

The Tamil family, originally from Sri Lanka, was bundled into vans and taken from their home in Biloela, Queensland in 2018, which according to the government officials is the equivalent of putting out the welcome mat and saying, ‘come to Australia’.

Another logical phallacy?

slippery slope.

Here’s the betting on the upcoming Fed election, from Ladbrokes

Coalition 1.57
ALP 2.25

Seems about right. I’d favour the Lishun but Labor is not without a hope.

dv said:

Here’s the betting on the upcoming Fed election, from Ladbrokes

Coalition 1.57
ALP 2.25

Seems about right. I’d favour the Lishun but Labor is not without a hope.

I’m afraid for Australia if the Liberals get another turn.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Here’s the betting on the upcoming Fed election, from Ladbrokes

Coalition 1.57
ALP 2.25

Seems about right. I’d favour the Lishun but Labor is not without a hope.

I’m afraid for Australia if the Liberals get another turn.

We need a fresh approach.

Today in History

In 1870, Charles Dickens had a stroke and died at the age of 58. The beloved British writer brought the streets of 19th-century London to life with stories like Oliver Twist and David Copperfield.

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Here’s the betting on the upcoming Fed election, from Ladbrokes

Coalition 1.57
ALP 2.25

Seems about right. I’d favour the Lishun but Labor is not without a hope.

I’m afraid for Australia if the Liberals get another turn.

We need a fresh approach.

I have just the ad :)

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

I’m afraid for Australia if the Liberals get another turn.

We need a fresh approach.

I have just the ad :)

make up your mind, yesterday you said that ad was naff.

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

Kinda feel like the country is in a bit of a holding pattern for now, just waiting for someone to come up with a coherent national policy approach to solve the big issues of the day: transitioning to a low carbon economy, solving the affordable housing crisis, halting the ever increasing spread of car-dependent urban sprawl, reforming the education system, reforming the tax system. Thing is we’ve been waiting for so long that waiting seems the new normal.

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

I’m afraid for Australia if the Liberals get another turn.

We need a fresh approach.

I have just the ad :)

Heard a grab from his speech yesterday. He’s just a fkn awful speaker. Smarmy.. like a nasty hectoring headmaster.

Was trying to think what fictional character he reminded me of..

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

I’m afraid for Australia if the Liberals get another turn.

We need a fresh approach.

I have just the ad :)

But who to replace him?

dv said:

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

that’s what happened. And the Libs ran a much dirtier campaign.

I think I would be okay if they played the man and not the ball. For a long time I have asked people ‘would you let this person you are voting for babysit your young kids?’. The Libs have a lot of members that fail that for me as mother.

Tamb said:

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

We need a fresh approach.

I have just the ad :)

But who to replace him?

How about Albo?

Tamb said:

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

We need a fresh approach.

I have just the ad :)

But who to replace him?

Dutton

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

that’s what happened. And the Libs ran a much dirtier campaign.

I think I would be okay if they played the man and not the ball. For a long time I have asked people ‘would you let this person you are voting for babysit your young kids?’. The Libs have a lot of members that fail that for me as mother.

The National Libs are close to needing an intervention.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

sibeen said:

I have just the ad :)

But who to replace him?

How about Albo?

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

sibeen said:

I have just the ad :)

But who to replace him?

How about Albo?

Who?

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

But who to replace him?

How about Albo?

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

Is it infighting as much as it is Murdoch/Fairfax attacks on any Labor leader? If albo does get anywhere you can be sure he will be taken down.

sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

But who to replace him?

How about Albo?

Who?

and people complain about my tired old jokes.

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

But who to replace him?

How about Albo?

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

Is there? I haven’t heard any noise coming from the Federal ALP in recent times, about anything.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How about Albo?

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

Is there? I haven’t heard any noise coming from the Federal ALP in recent times, about anything.

I thought the same but as I don’t follow the politics as closely as some I thought i may have missed it.

Bogsnorkler said:

sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How about Albo?

Who?

and people complain about my tired old jokes.

I don’t complain about your jokes.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How about Albo?

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

Is there? I haven’t heard any noise coming from the Federal ALP in recent times, about anything.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/may/24/anthony-albanese-calls-for-perspective-as-joel-fitzgibbon-threatens-to-quit-after-upper-hunter-byelection

Ian said:

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

Is there? I haven’t heard any noise coming from the Federal ALP in recent times, about anything.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/may/24/anthony-albanese-calls-for-perspective-as-joel-fitzgibbon-threatens-to-quit-after-upper-hunter-byelection

(shrugs) Fitzgibbon is looking forward to a gig on Sky News at Night.

Ian said:

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

Is there? I haven’t heard any noise coming from the Federal ALP in recent times, about anything.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/may/24/anthony-albanese-calls-for-perspective-as-joel-fitzgibbon-threatens-to-quit-after-upper-hunter-byelection

I’d hardly put that under “so much”. Bit like Craig Kelly quitting, though Joel has more principles even if in the wrong place.

Hey y’all remember a movie, probably made for TV, about Edward Elgar’s late life? From the 1980ish … young dude had the job of transcribing Elgar’s late works based on his vocalisations.

dv said:

Hey y’all remember a movie, probably made for TV, about Edward Elgar’s late life? From the 1980ish … young dude had the job of transcribing Elgar’s late works based on his vocalisations.

ET sing hits of the 80’s ?

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How about Albo?

So much infighting in the ALP that I doubt he’d survive.

Is there? I haven’t heard any noise coming from the Federal ALP in recent times, about anything.

Just let them get elected to government.

The ALP has an ingrained habit of forgetting that there’s a country to run once they find themselves on the government benches.

For reason not yet known to behavioural science, faction apparatchiks within the party are moved to decide that this is the perfect time to engage in pushing, shoving and power-play chicanery in general.

dv said:

Hey y’all remember a movie, probably made for TV, about Edward Elgar’s late life? From the 1980ish … young dude had the job of transcribing Elgar’s late works based on his vocalisations.

Elgar is a British drama documentary made in 1962 by the British director Ken Russell for BBC Television’s Monitor series. It dramatised in vigorous style the life of the English composer Sir Edward Elgar.?

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Hey y’all remember a movie, probably made for TV, about Edward Elgar’s late life? From the 1980ish … young dude had the job of transcribing Elgar’s late works based on his vocalisations.

Elgar is a British drama documentary made in 1962 by the British director Ken Russell for BBC Television’s Monitor series. It dramatised in vigorous style the life of the English composer Sir Edward Elgar.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgar_(film)

dv said:

Tamb said:

sibeen said:

I have just the ad :)

But who to replace him?

Dutton

This is what i’ve thought for quite a while.

The only reason that Mr. Marketing still has the job is that the potential replacements are even more horrifying to contemplate.

We really need a secular progressive centrist third party, that are controlled neither by the unions nor by big business, and not open to influence from religious groups.

party_pants said:

We really need a secular progressive centrist third party, that are controlled neither by the unions nor by big business, and not open to influence from religious groups.

Scientific Atheist alliance

party_pants said:

We really need a secular progressive centrist third party, that are controlled neither by the unions nor by big business, and not open to influence from religious groups.

The Ethical Moderates.

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

We really need a secular progressive centrist third party, that are controlled neither by the unions nor by big business, and not open to influence from religious groups.

The Ethical Moderates.

Buffy’s Ethical Mob.

Cymek said:

party_pants said:

We really need a secular progressive centrist third party, that are controlled neither by the unions nor by big business, and not open to influence from religious groups.

Scientific Atheist alliance

The Completely Sensible Party of the Sunlit Uplands.

party_pants said:

Cymek said:

party_pants said:

We really need a secular progressive centrist third party, that are controlled neither by the unions nor by big business, and not open to influence from religious groups.

Scientific Atheist alliance

The Completely Sensible Party of the Sunlit Uplands.

Sam Kekovich’s You Know It Makes Sense Party.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Hey y’all remember a movie, probably made for TV, about Edward Elgar’s late life? From the 1980ish … young dude had the job of transcribing Elgar’s late works based on his vocalisations.

Elgar is a British drama documentary made in 1962 by the British director Ken Russell for BBC Television’s Monitor series. It dramatised in vigorous style the life of the English composer Sir Edward Elgar.?

not that

Queensland Labor MP Duncan Pegg has died seven weeks after he announced he was retiring from politics to focus on his battle with cancer.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-10/qld-former-labor-mp-duncan-pegg-dies-cancer/100204776

dv said:

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

This.

dv said:

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

One of their big mistakes was promising to end live animal exports. It’s one of our only renewable export incomes, and a lot of people rely on it, especially in the rural areas. That promise alone ended their support from country seats.

Here’s an idea, the WA Labor government has managed to actually govern properly, and got voted back in handsomely. How about the next time the Fed Labor gets voted in, they actually govern instead of bickering over political point scoring.

Kingy said:

dv said:

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

One of their big mistakes was promising to end live animal exports. It’s one of our only renewable export incomes, and a lot of people rely on it, especially in the rural areas. That promise alone ended their support from country seats.

Here’s an idea, the WA Labor government has managed to actually govern properly, and got voted back in handsomely. How about the next time the Fed Labor gets voted in, they actually govern instead of bickering over political point scoring.

How about any government just governed for the sake of the country instead of playing politics and PR spin.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

dv said:

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

One of their big mistakes was promising to end live animal exports. It’s one of our only renewable export incomes, and a lot of people rely on it, especially in the rural areas. That promise alone ended their support from country seats.

Here’s an idea, the WA Labor government has managed to actually govern properly, and got voted back in handsomely. How about the next time the Fed Labor gets voted in, they actually govern instead of bickering over political point scoring.

How about any government just governed for the sake of the country instead of playing politics and PR spin.

I like the idea of representation. But I don’t want to move to Clark.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

dv said:

I’ve no idea what approach the ALP should take. Last time, they stayed right away from speculation, and just delivered a very broad-ranging and detailed progressive, fully costed policy platform, and they were beaten by a party that gave no detail, went negative and refused to provide costings for anything. The ALP’s approach here appealed to people like me but I guess not many people are that into policy.

One of their big mistakes was promising to end live animal exports. It’s one of our only renewable export incomes, and a lot of people rely on it, especially in the rural areas. That promise alone ended their support from country seats.

Here’s an idea, the WA Labor government has managed to actually govern properly, and got voted back in handsomely. How about the next time the Fed Labor gets voted in, they actually govern instead of bickering over political point scoring.

How about any government just governed for the sake of the country instead of playing politics and PR spin.

madness

“Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

sarahs mum said:

“Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

what does that mean?

I thought everyone hated us.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

“Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

what does that mean?

I thought everyone hated us.

I’m pretty sure not everyone hates us.

In Wednesday’s speech Morrison talked up Australia’s book, declaring in the written version: “Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

He added: “We have worked hard to ensure we are not a nation that can be easily marginalised and driven to unacceptable compromises”.

—-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/scott-morrison-joe-biden-g7-forum/100207010

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

“Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

what does that mean?

I thought everyone hated us.

I’m pretty sure not everyone hates us.

In Wednesday’s speech Morrison talked up Australia’s book, declaring in the written version: “Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

He added: “We have worked hard to ensure we are not a nation that can be easily marginalised and driven to unacceptable compromises”.

—-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/scott-morrison-joe-biden-g7-forum/100207010

Just don’t you dare be a refugee and not white

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

“Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

what does that mean?

I thought everyone hated us.

I’m pretty sure not everyone hates us.

In Wednesday’s speech Morrison talked up Australia’s book, declaring in the written version: “Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

He added: “We have worked hard to ensure we are not a nation that can be easily marginalised and driven to unacceptable compromises”.

—-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/scott-morrison-joe-biden-g7-forum/100207010

We are going to be driven into implementing something about carbon emissions whether we like it or not. Other countries will make the decisions and we will be marginalised in those discussions with Morrison and the coalition in charge.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

what does that mean?

I thought everyone hated us.

I’m pretty sure not everyone hates us.

In Wednesday’s speech Morrison talked up Australia’s book, declaring in the written version: “Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

He added: “We have worked hard to ensure we are not a nation that can be easily marginalised and driven to unacceptable compromises”.

—-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/scott-morrison-joe-biden-g7-forum/100207010

We are going to be driven into implementing something about carbon emissions whether we like it or not. Other countries will make the decisions and we will be marginalised in those discussions with Morrison and the coalition in charge.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

I’m pretty sure not everyone hates us.

In Wednesday’s speech Morrison talked up Australia’s book, declaring in the written version: “Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

He added: “We have worked hard to ensure we are not a nation that can be easily marginalised and driven to unacceptable compromises”.

—-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/scott-morrison-joe-biden-g7-forum/100207010

We are going to be driven into implementing something about carbon emissions whether we like it or not. Other countries will make the decisions and we will be marginalised in those discussions with Morrison and the coalition in charge.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

We are going to be driven into implementing something about carbon emissions whether we like it or not. Other countries will make the decisions and we will be marginalised in those discussions with Morrison and the coalition in charge.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

Anyone for pumped hyrdo? Biofuels? composted cane toads?

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

I’m pretty sure not everyone hates us.

In Wednesday’s speech Morrison talked up Australia’s book, declaring in the written version: “Australia is more connected and more respected today than arguably at any time in our history”.

He added: “We have worked hard to ensure we are not a nation that can be easily marginalised and driven to unacceptable compromises”.

—-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/scott-morrison-joe-biden-g7-forum/100207010

We are going to be driven into implementing something about carbon emissions whether we like it or not. Other countries will make the decisions and we will be marginalised in those discussions with Morrison and the coalition in charge.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

Damn. I thought this was good news, but it seems I’m just getting my think tanks confused.

It seems the Australia Institute is a “progressive” think tank, so anything they say will just harden the governments resolve to do the opposite.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

Hydro power would make more sense, but I suppose they’ll install a fair bit of battery back-up as well for shorter term fluctuations in supply, which could be really useful if done properly.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

We should be able to afford batteries. Queensland looks like it’s going to be paying $15k per MWh for about 4 hours this evening. It’s ‘only’ a 375 times increase from the current price.

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

Anyone for pumped hyrdo? Biofuels? composted cane toads?

Wednesday night the Blues did a good job of composting some cane toads.

So if all the coal-fired aluminium production moved to Tasmania to use the hydro power, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Or a bit of both?

The Rev Dodgson said:

So if all the coal-fired aluminium production moved to Tasmania to use the hydro power, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Or a bit of both?

I suspect the latter. Whilst the hydro is damn (sic) good there have been years when the water level becomes critical.

The Rev Dodgson said:

So if all the coal-fired aluminium production moved to Tasmania to use the hydro power, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Or a bit of both?

Or you could build a BassLink 3, 4 and 5 to move the electricity to the smelters.

party_pants said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So if all the coal-fired aluminium production moved to Tasmania to use the hydro power, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Or a bit of both?

Or you could build a BassLink 3, 4 and 5 to move the electricity to the smelters.

Probably better to install a load of solar where they are now + pumped hydro + batteries then.

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So if all the coal-fired aluminium production moved to Tasmania to use the hydro power, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Or a bit of both?

Or you could build a BassLink 3, 4 and 5 to move the electricity to the smelters.

Probably better to install a load of solar where they are now + pumped hydro + batteries then.

Or even solar + hydrogen.

The Rev Dodgson said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

Or you could build a BassLink 3, 4 and 5 to move the electricity to the smelters.

Probably better to install a load of solar where they are now + pumped hydro + batteries then.

Or even solar + hydrogen.

I’d like to see some realistic cost breakdowns. I suspect hydrogen would come out ahead.

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So if all the coal-fired aluminium production moved to Tasmania to use the hydro power, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Or a bit of both?

Or you could build a BassLink 3, 4 and 5 to move the electricity to the smelters.

Probably better to install a load of solar where they are now + pumped hydro + batteries then.

I think we will need to use all available technologies in the mix somewhere.

If there is a big project going ahead in the north of Australia to involving solar + batteries + HVDC to send renewable electricity all the way to Singapore we should be able to do the same within our own borders.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/carbon-border-adjustment-taxes-threaten-australian-aluminium/100205362

God Damn If Only We Had Known That Environmentally Better Options Were A Good Idea

A new report warns that Australia’s $12.6b aluminium export industry is at grave risk but that embracing carbon tariffs and low-emissions technology is the best way to protect it

The Australia Institute report warned this sector could be all but wiped out if a cross-border carbon adjustment mechanism, also dubbed a “carbon tariff”, is widely adopted, given that the nation’s three largest smelters are some of the most emissions-intensive in the world, outside of China.

Mr Merzian said Australia would inevitably lose out if it does not join the global trend to lower emissions. “The Australian government claims that it’s approach to climate is dictated by technology not taxes,” he said. “Make no mistake, if Australia continues to stonewall its trading partners and allies on climate, the taxes will come anyway. But the revenue is going to be collected outside of Australia.”

and how to use apostrophes correctly in spoken language

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

We have contingency fossil fuel generation when demand peaks so why should renewables be any different?

The Rev Dodgson said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

Or you could build a BassLink 3, 4 and 5 to move the electricity to the smelters.

Probably better to install a load of solar where they are now + pumped hydro + batteries then.

Or even solar + hydrogen.

but why not bothboth since the king geniuses already know that water flows wind blows and sun glows all the time

does aluminium reduction have to be happening all the time 86400 s a day

fk why not just build 10 times as much solar/wind/hydro as you need

then make 10 times the aluminium you need

then when your water wind and sun aren’t working for you

just mix the powder with some iron ore and some wires

and you get iron smelting, electron flow, and sparks

Win, Win, Wind ¡

https://youtu.be/HkrlBdtEIWY?t=89

party_pants said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

Or you could build a BassLink 3, 4 and 5 to move the electricity to the smelters.

Probably better to install a load of solar where they are now + pumped hydro + batteries then.

I think we will need to use all available technologies in the mix somewhere.

If there is a big project going ahead in the north of Australia to involving solar + batteries + HVDC to send renewable electricity all the way to Singapore we should be able to do the same within our own borders.

I’d be surprised if that ever comes off. I saw it when it was first proposed and it was a two page website. They didn’t know the difference between power and energy. Some financial chancers trying it on was my first guess.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

We have contingency fossil fuel generation when demand peaks so why should renewables be any different?

because the loomsbreakers always love to compare like for like, remember how the obvious correct comparison was between Planned Police State Lockdown Economies and no-restriction-no-virus-no-children economy

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Call me an ideas person if you like, but if we could somehow get ahead of the curve in terms of renewable electricity generation it would place our aluminium industry at a competitive advantage when carbon taxes start being levied on these type of product. The world is still going to need aluminium and steel for the foreseeable future and those countries producing the lowest carbon footprint materials are going to benefit most.

We can’t rely on being a special category exemption forever. Either we get ahead of the game or we get marginalised and left behind.

The good thing is that when the suns not shining and the winds not blowing we’ll have batteries to keep the aluminium smelters going.

We have contingency fossil fuel generation when demand peaks so why should renewables be any different?

It shouldn’t, but even the suggestion of someone building a gas fired station brings out some real nutters.

SCIENCE said:

does aluminium reduction have to be happening all the time 86400 s a day

Yes. They run 24/7, and the metal in a liquid state is tapped off every now and again. Things would go very badly if the electricity was turned off.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

does aluminium reduction have to be happening all the time 86400 s a day

Yes. They run 24/7, and the metal in a liquid state is tapped off every now and again. Things would go very badly if the electricity was turned off.

Yep, lose power for more than a few hours and you’re off-line for weeks at least.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

does aluminium reduction have to be happening all the time 86400 s a day

Yes. They run 24/7, and the metal in a liquid state is tapped off every now and again. Things would go very badly if the electricity was turned off.

so we have to make electricity the old way because we must make aluminium the old way

sibeen said:

party_pants said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Probably better to install a load of solar where they are now + pumped hydro + batteries then.

I think we will need to use all available technologies in the mix somewhere.

If there is a big project going ahead in the north of Australia to involving solar + batteries + HVDC to send renewable electricity all the way to Singapore we should be able to do the same within our own borders.

I’d be surprised if that ever comes off. I saw it when it was first proposed and it was a two page website. They didn’t know the difference between power and energy. Some financial chancers trying it on was my first guess.

It hasn’t been called off yet. If it goes ahead there will be no excuses for us not to do a similar thing locally.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

does aluminium reduction have to be happening all the time 86400 s a day

Yes. They run 24/7, and the metal in a liquid state is tapped off every now and again. Things would go very badly if the electricity was turned off.

If the metal in the pot sets the only thing to do is to remove the pot for scrap & install a new pot.

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

party_pants said:

I think we will need to use all available technologies in the mix somewhere.

If there is a big project going ahead in the north of Australia to involving solar + batteries + HVDC to send renewable electricity all the way to Singapore we should be able to do the same within our own borders.

I’d be surprised if that ever comes off. I saw it when it was first proposed and it was a two page website. They didn’t know the difference between power and energy. Some financial chancers trying it on was my first guess.

It hasn’t been called off yet. If it goes ahead there will be no excuses for us not to do a similar thing locally.

From what sibeen said…if it goes ahead, we’d be wise to wait and see how it goes…

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

does aluminium reduction have to be happening all the time 86400 s a day

Yes. They run 24/7, and the metal in a liquid state is tapped off every now and again. Things would go very badly if the electricity was turned off.

so we have to make electricity the old way because we must make aluminium the old way

I am not sure there is any new way to make aluminium without needing vast amounts of electricity.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

Yes. They run 24/7, and the metal in a liquid state is tapped off every now and again. Things would go very badly if the electricity was turned off.

so we have to make electricity the old way because we must make aluminium the old way

I am not sure there is any new way to make aluminium without needing vast amounts of electricity.

them QLDers better hurry up with their aluminium battery tech’ then

(But seriously, the smelters do turn on and off frequently right…)

buffy said:

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

I’d be surprised if that ever comes off. I saw it when it was first proposed and it was a two page website. They didn’t know the difference between power and energy. Some financial chancers trying it on was my first guess.

It hasn’t been called off yet. If it goes ahead there will be no excuses for us not to do a similar thing locally.

From what sibeen said…if it goes ahead, we’d be wise to wait and see how it goes…

From memory I even started a thread on it pointing out the cluelessness. :)

The Bell Bay aluminium smelter is located on the Tamar River at Bell Bay, Tasmania, Australia. The smelter has a production capacity of 178,000 tonnes of aluminium per year. It is owned and operated by Pacific Aluminium, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rio Tinto Alcan.
Contents

1 History 2 Technology 3 See also 4 References 5 External links

History

The Bell Bay smelter commenced production in 1955 as a joint venture between the Commonwealth and Tasmanian governments. The smelter was the first built in the Southern Hemisphere primarily to overcome difficulties importing aluminium during wartime. Bell Bay was chosen as the location because of the available hydroelectric power and deep water facilities. Rio Tinto Aluminium purchased the smelter in 1960, when production was about 12,000 tonnes per year. The original potline (Line 1) used British Aluminium Söderberg technology. It was converted to use prebake anodes in 1965 and shut down in 1981.
Technology

The smelter currently comprises three potlines of Kaiser P-57 reduction cells

Line 2 and Line 3 were built in the early 1960s. Line 4 was built in two stages in the early 1980s.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-11/workers-wages-superannuation-guarantee-rise-employers-budget/100206954

Isn’t this simply a case of knowing what your contract says?

sarahs mum said:

The Bell Bay aluminium smelter is located on the Tamar River at Bell Bay, Tasmania, Australia. The smelter has a production capacity of 178,000 tonnes of aluminium per year. It is owned and operated by Pacific Aluminium, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rio Tinto Alcan.
Contents

1 History 2 Technology 3 See also 4 References 5 External links

History

The Bell Bay smelter commenced production in 1955 as a joint venture between the Commonwealth and Tasmanian governments. The smelter was the first built in the Southern Hemisphere primarily to overcome difficulties importing aluminium during wartime. Bell Bay was chosen as the location because of the available hydroelectric power and deep water facilities. Rio Tinto Aluminium purchased the smelter in 1960, when production was about 12,000 tonnes per year. The original potline (Line 1) used British Aluminium Söderberg technology. It was converted to use prebake anodes in 1965 and shut down in 1981.
Technology

The smelter currently comprises three potlines of Kaiser P-57 reduction cells

Line 2 and Line 3 were built in the early 1960s. Line 4 was built in two stages in the early 1980s.

I used to know that but thanks for jolting the memory.

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

so we have to make electricity the old way because we must make aluminium the old way

I am not sure there is any new way to make aluminium without needing vast amounts of electricity.

them QLDers better hurry up with their aluminium battery tech’ then

(But seriously, the smelters do turn on and off frequently right…)

They stay on 24/7 unless they are pouring the aluminium out of a pot.

Peak Warming Man said:

sarahs mum said:

The Bell Bay aluminium smelter is located on the Tamar River at Bell Bay, Tasmania, Australia. The smelter has a production capacity of 178,000 tonnes of aluminium per year. It is owned and operated by Pacific Aluminium, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rio Tinto Alcan.
Contents

1 History 2 Technology 3 See also 4 References 5 External links

History

The Bell Bay smelter commenced production in 1955 as a joint venture between the Commonwealth and Tasmanian governments. The smelter was the first built in the Southern Hemisphere primarily to overcome difficulties importing aluminium during wartime. Bell Bay was chosen as the location because of the available hydroelectric power and deep water facilities. Rio Tinto Aluminium purchased the smelter in 1960, when production was about 12,000 tonnes per year. The original potline (Line 1) used British Aluminium Söderberg technology. It was converted to use prebake anodes in 1965 and shut down in 1981.
Technology

The smelter currently comprises three potlines of Kaiser P-57 reduction cells

Line 2 and Line 3 were built in the early 1960s. Line 4 was built in two stages in the early 1980s.

I used to know that but thanks for jolting the memory.

All that aluminium is for local use for making alcohol cans isn’t it ?

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

sarahs mum said:

The Bell Bay aluminium smelter is located on the Tamar River at Bell Bay, Tasmania, Australia. The smelter has a production capacity of 178,000 tonnes of aluminium per year. It is owned and operated by Pacific Aluminium, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rio Tinto Alcan.
Contents

1 History 2 Technology 3 See also 4 References 5 External links

History

The Bell Bay smelter commenced production in 1955 as a joint venture between the Commonwealth and Tasmanian governments. The smelter was the first built in the Southern Hemisphere primarily to overcome difficulties importing aluminium during wartime. Bell Bay was chosen as the location because of the available hydroelectric power and deep water facilities. Rio Tinto Aluminium purchased the smelter in 1960, when production was about 12,000 tonnes per year. The original potline (Line 1) used British Aluminium Söderberg technology. It was converted to use prebake anodes in 1965 and shut down in 1981.
Technology

The smelter currently comprises three potlines of Kaiser P-57 reduction cells

Line 2 and Line 3 were built in the early 1960s. Line 4 was built in two stages in the early 1980s.

I used to know that but thanks for jolting the memory.

All that aluminium is for local use for making alcohol cans isn’t it ?

180,000 tonnes of beer cans seems like an awful lot of beer for a population of 528,201.

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

sarahs mum said:

The Bell Bay aluminium smelter is located on the Tamar River at Bell Bay, Tasmania, Australia. The smelter has a production capacity of 178,000 tonnes of aluminium per year. It is owned and operated by Pacific Aluminium, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rio Tinto Alcan.
Contents

1 History 2 Technology 3 See also 4 References 5 External links

History

The Bell Bay smelter commenced production in 1955 as a joint venture between the Commonwealth and Tasmanian governments. The smelter was the first built in the Southern Hemisphere primarily to overcome difficulties importing aluminium during wartime. Bell Bay was chosen as the location because of the available hydroelectric power and deep water facilities. Rio Tinto Aluminium purchased the smelter in 1960, when production was about 12,000 tonnes per year. The original potline (Line 1) used British Aluminium Söderberg technology. It was converted to use prebake anodes in 1965 and shut down in 1981.
Technology

The smelter currently comprises three potlines of Kaiser P-57 reduction cells

Line 2 and Line 3 were built in the early 1960s. Line 4 was built in two stages in the early 1980s.

I used to know that but thanks for jolting the memory.

All that aluminium is for local use for making alcohol cans isn’t it ?

.. and sliding windows.

party_pants said:

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I used to know that but thanks for jolting the memory.

All that aluminium is for local use for making alcohol cans isn’t it ?

.. and sliding windows.

Add the Boyne island(Gladstone) smelter’s 545,000 tonnes pa.

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

I am not sure there is any new way to make aluminium without needing vast amounts of electricity.

them QLDers better hurry up with their aluminium battery tech’ then

(But seriously, the smelters do turn on and off frequently right…)

They stay on 24/7 unless they are pouring the aluminium out of a pot.

Wait so those jokers claiming they keep Gold Standard networks stable by being big and easy to switch off were just lying to us ¿

SCIENCE said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

them QLDers better hurry up with their aluminium battery tech’ then

(But seriously, the smelters do turn on and off frequently right…)

They stay on 24/7 unless they are pouring the aluminium out of a pot.

Wait so those jokers claiming they keep Gold Standard networks stable by being big and easy to switch off were just lying to us ¿

Trumpian truth.

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

Cymek said:

All that aluminium is for local use for making alcohol cans isn’t it ?

.. and sliding windows.

Add the Boyne island(Gladstone) smelter’s 545,000 tonnes pa.

It all goes to Boeing and Lockheed to turn into jet fighters which they back to us at a thousand times the price of the raw materials.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

.. and sliding windows.

Add the Boyne island(Gladstone) smelter’s 545,000 tonnes pa.

It all goes to Boeing and Lockheed to turn into jet fighters which they back to us at a thousand times the price of the raw materials.

It is called value adding. Something Australians lag way behind on.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

.. and sliding windows.

Add the Boyne island(Gladstone) smelter’s 545,000 tonnes pa.

It all goes to Boeing and Lockheed to turn into jet fighters which they back to us at a thousand times the price of the raw materials.

That’s the Farmer’s Lament. Buy at retail, sell at wholesale.

SCIENCE said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

them QLDers better hurry up with their aluminium battery tech’ then

(But seriously, the smelters do turn on and off frequently right…)

They stay on 24/7 unless they are pouring the aluminium out of a pot.

Wait so those jokers claiming they keep Gold Standard networks stable by being big and easy to switch off were just lying to us ¿

The production line consists of a series of dozens of individual pots. They can switch of one pot here and there when required, like replacing the electrodes and doing maintenance and so on. But not shutting of the entire fctory.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

Add the Boyne island(Gladstone) smelter’s 545,000 tonnes pa.

It all goes to Boeing and Lockheed to turn into jet fighters which they back to us at a thousand times the price of the raw materials.

It is called value adding. Something Australians lag way behind on.

Yes I know. Even if we can just value add our ores into basic metal ingots would be a big economic boost.

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

It all goes to Boeing and Lockheed to turn into jet fighters which they back to us at a thousand times the price of the raw materials.

It is called value adding. Something Australians lag way behind on.

Yes I know. Even if we can just value add our ores into basic metal ingots would be a big economic boost.

It isn’t difficult. Just have to take over the assets. Tell Gina what our country wants to do with her money.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

It is called value adding. Something Australians lag way behind on.

Yes I know. Even if we can just value add our ores into basic metal ingots would be a big economic boost.

It isn’t difficult. Just have to take over the assets. Tell Gina what our country wants to do with her money.

We will be pilloried for the increased carbon emissions.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Yes I know. Even if we can just value add our ores into basic metal ingots would be a big economic boost.

It isn’t difficult. Just have to take over the assets. Tell Gina what our country wants to do with her money.

We will be pilloried for the increased carbon emissions.

No doubt.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Yes I know. Even if we can just value add our ores into basic metal ingots would be a big economic boost.

It isn’t difficult. Just have to take over the assets. Tell Gina what our country wants to do with her money.

We will be pilloried for the increased carbon emissions.

Which brings us back to where the discussion started; changing our energy mix to a low carbon footprint model. That way any metals we make with that energy would be low carbon footprint too.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

It isn’t difficult. Just have to take over the assets. Tell Gina what our country wants to do with her money.

We will be pilloried for the increased carbon emissions.

No doubt.

There are ways to ameliorate the situation though.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

It isn’t difficult. Just have to take over the assets. Tell Gina what our country wants to do with her money.

We will be pilloried for the increased carbon emissions.

Which brings us back to where the discussion started; changing our energy mix to a low carbon footprint model. That way any metals we make with that energy would be low carbon footprint too.

tick.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

We will be pilloried for the increased carbon emissions.

Which brings us back to where the discussion started; changing our energy mix to a low carbon footprint model. That way any metals we make with that energy would be low carbon footprint too.

tick.

On the political dimension of that, I can’t see any alternative except for us the embrace the concept and try to get ahead of the curve vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Which brings us back to where the discussion started; changing our energy mix to a low carbon footprint model. That way any metals we make with that energy would be low carbon footprint too.

tick.

On the political dimension of that, I can’t see any alternative except for us the embrace the concept and try to get ahead of the curve vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Which brings us back to where the discussion started; changing our energy mix to a low carbon footprint model. That way any metals we make with that energy would be low carbon footprint too.

tick.

On the political dimension of that, I can’t see any alternative except for us the embrace the concept and try to get ahead of the curve vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

We have proven capable in the past on smaller scales but this is long overdue.

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

tick.

On the political dimension of that, I can’t see any alternative except for us the embrace the concept and try to get ahead of the curve vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

Don’t make me cry

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

On the political dimension of that, I can’t see any alternative except for us the embrace the concept and try to get ahead of the curve vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

Don’t make me cry

I didn’t mean to make you cry

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

tick.

On the political dimension of that, I can’t see any alternative except for us the embrace the concept and try to get ahead of the curve vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

On the political dimension of that, I can’t see any alternative except for us the embrace the concept and try to get ahead of the curve vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

But then I’m sure that potato head has been bolstered by recent events to go on with his plan.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

Gough gave a shit. He liked us.

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

Gough gave a shit. He liked us.

He did. His base was that he wanted us to buy our country back.
It was a good idea. The aborigines could have put in a claim as well.
However it seems that certain parties want us to remain a hole in the ground to be scraped dry.

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

Gough gave a shit. He liked us.

He did. His base was that he wanted us to buy our country back.
It was a good idea. The aborigines could have put in a claim as well.
However it seems that certain parties want us to remain a hole in the ground to be scraped dry.

and later to landfill with their rubbish.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

Gough and his mob were too much of a shock – for the media barons, for big business, for ‘foreign investors’, and for the Americans.

They struck fear in many sectors, fear that real and effective changes might be on the way, and here to stay.

So, campaigns of media beat-ups and political chicanery were embarked upon, to get them out and allow things to return to ‘normal’.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

Gough and his mob were too much of a shock – for the media barons, for big business, for ‘foreign investors’, and for the Americans.

They struck fear in many sectors, fear that real and effective changes might be on the way, and here to stay.

So, campaigns of media beat-ups and political chicanery were embarked upon, to get them out and allow things to return to ‘normal’.

This is what happened. The tall poppies had to go. Some went easy, like Jim Cairns rolled down the hill with Juni.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

I hardly think we need a new Gough to adopt the policies that even Boris Johnston supports.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

Gough and his mob were too much of a shock – for the media barons, for big business, for ‘foreign investors’, and for the Americans.

They struck fear in many sectors, fear that real and effective changes might be on the way, and here to stay.

So, campaigns of media beat-ups and political chicanery were embarked upon, to get them out and allow things to return to ‘normal’.

This is what happened. The tall poppies had to go. Some went easy, like Jim Cairns rolled down the hill with Juni.

But in the meantime I was 6 stone 12 with a case of bronchitis I wasn’t getting over…and I was given a medibank card and a wage rise. I could go to the doctor and get medicine and eat.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

But that would contradict the purposes behind the players in that market system making significant donations to political parties i.e. for those parties to NOT reveal such future costs, so that the market system can remain as it is without significant new expenditure or technology change.

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

I hardly think we need a new Gough to adopt the policies that even Boris Johnston supports.

No. Many of the concepts Gough was big on are still with us.
We simply need a leader who can pull all the others into place.

roughbarked said:

This is what happened. The tall poppies had to go. Some went easy, like Jim Cairns rolled down the hill with Juni.

And subsequent Labor governments bore the lesson in mind.

‘Radical’ agendas would do you no favours.

Make changes where you could (Keating’s superannuation plan, for instance) but be careful to not upset the wrong people.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

This is what happened. The tall poppies had to go. Some went easy, like Jim Cairns rolled down the hill with Juni.

And subsequent Labor governments bore the lesson in mind.

‘Radical’ agendas would do you no favours.

Make changes where you could (Keating’s superannuation plan, for instance) but be careful to not upset the wrong people.

Not so much of the hare, more of the tortoise.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Such a pity that we don’t have a liberal party that would recognise and reveal future costs associated with GHG emissions, so that the market system could do what it does best and promote efficient new technologies, without the need for central government directives.

Don’t make me cry

I didn’t mean to make you cry

Which led me to:

Spectre by The Perishers

which I haven’t watched for ages (and neither has anyone else much).

If the Libs had won in 2007 we’d have had an emissions pricing scheme for 14 years now.
If the Greens had been flexible in 2009 we’d have had an emissions pricing scheme for 12 years now.
If the ALP had compromised with Malcolm in 2018 we’d have had an emissions pricing scheme for 3 years now.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Don’t make me cry

I didn’t mean to make you cry

Which led me to:

Spectre by The Perishers

which I haven’t watched for ages (and neither has anyone else much).

and I thank you for leading me to it.

dv said:

If the Libs had won in 2007 we’d have had an emissions pricing scheme for 14 years now.
If the Greens had been flexible in 2009 we’d have had an emissions pricing scheme for 12 years now.
If the ALP had compromised with Malcolm in 2018 we’d have had an emissions pricing scheme for 3 years now.

If being such a big word, all these promises were always only that and you know what that means after they win the election.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-government-bankrolls-600m-hunter-valley-gas-plant-20210519-p57t2u.html

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/may/19/coalitions-600m-gas-fired-recovery-boost-what-you-need-to-know

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

We need a revolutionary government. Gough tried it.
Hawke and Keating buggerised arouond with it but hey, if only Gough had stayed there long enough.

I hardly think we need a new Gough to adopt the policies that even Boris Johnston supports.

No. Many of the concepts Gough was big on are still with us.
We simply need a leader who can pull all the others into place.

Can they take out those with selfish vested interests that interfere

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I hardly think we need a new Gough to adopt the policies that even Boris Johnston supports.

No. Many of the concepts Gough was big on are still with us.
We simply need a leader who can pull all the others into place.

Can they take out those with selfish vested interests that interfere

Shit, we’d need almost a whole new Parliament!

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

No. Many of the concepts Gough was big on are still with us.
We simply need a leader who can pull all the others into place.

Can they take out those with selfish vested interests that interfere

Shit, we’d need almost a whole new Parliament!

Plus various business and union leaders.
I imagine Australia has the resources to give everyone a decent standard of living and meet or exceed all environmental requirements if the tiny minority with most of the money and power were taken out of the equation (whatever that entails)

party_pants said:

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

Thus, we are due for a serious reshuffle.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

I didn’t mean to make you cry

Which led me to:

Spectre by The Perishers

which I haven’t watched for ages (and neither has anyone else much).

and I thank you for leading me to it.

If you liked the video, thank my daughter :)

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

Can they take out those with selfish vested interests that interfere

Shit, we’d need almost a whole new Parliament!

Plus various business and union leaders.
I imagine Australia has the resources to give everyone a decent standard of living and meet or exceed all environmental requirements if the tiny minority with most of the money and power were taken out of the equation (whatever that entails)

The restaurant at the end of the universe?

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

Thus, we are due for a serious reshuffle.

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which led me to:

Spectre by The Perishers

which I haven’t watched for ages (and neither has anyone else much).

and I thank you for leading me to it.

If you liked the video, thank my daughter :)

Give her a hug and a kiss then. :)

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

Thus, we are due for a serious reshuffle.

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Thus, we are due for a serious reshuffle.

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Hitler saved me from Vietnam.

party_pants said:

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

Maybe the Chinese will finally annexe us next year.

There could be some reforms come out of that.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Hitler saved me from Vietnam.

and the Korean?

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

Maybe the Chinese will finally annexe us next year.

There could be some reforms come out of that.

When I say reform, I mean the sort of reforms I want to see.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

Maybe the Chinese will finally annexe us next year.

There could be some reforms come out of that.

all things must pass

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

I was only about 2 or 3 years old during Gough’s reign of terror. I don’t remember any of it.

I will be 50 next year. Surely one big reforming government every 50 years isn’t too much to ask.

Maybe the Chinese will finally annexe us next year.

There could be some reforms come out of that.

When I say reform, I mean the sort of reforms I want to see.

Sings, we are Australian..

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Hitler saved me from Vietnam.

and the Korean?

Yes that too. Too young for one & too old for the other.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Maybe the Chinese will finally annexe us next year.

There could be some reforms come out of that.

When I say reform, I mean the sort of reforms I want to see.

Sings, we are Australian..

Do you know that in Mandarin?

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Thus, we are due for a serious reshuffle.

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Rubbish.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Thus, we are due for a serious reshuffle.

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Nah, troops were out by 71. gough put an end to conscription i believe.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Nah, troops were out by 71. gough put an end to conscription i believe.

Gough did pull the troops out, about the 17 who were left :)

The Libs had been pulling out troops two years prior to that.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Hitler saved me from Vietnam.

and the Korean?

Yes that too. Too young for one & too old for the other.

My old man had his on his certificate date of birth crossed out altered and signed by the recruiting officer. In order to defeat Rommel and Tojo. He had his age put down to get in.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

When I say reform, I mean the sort of reforms I want to see.

Sings, we are Australian..

Do you know that in Mandarin?

Maybe it will be banned>?

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Rubbish.

ref?

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Its strange that’s a big ask when it basically comes down to human decency and everyone gets a fair slice of the pie

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Nah, troops were out by 71. gough put an end to conscription i believe.

OK. That I will accept.

sibeen said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Nah, troops were out by 71. gough put an end to conscription i believe.

Gough did pull the troops out, about the 17 who were left :)

The Libs had been pulling out troops two years prior to that.

troops or “advisors”?

sibeen said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Nah, troops were out by 71. gough put an end to conscription i believe.

Gough did pull the troops out, about the 17 who were left :)

The Libs had been pulling out troops two years prior to that.

OK. My memory is coming back.

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Rubbish.

ref?

history.

Bogsnorkler said:

sibeen said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Nah, troops were out by 71. gough put an end to conscription i believe.

Gough did pull the troops out, about the 17 who were left :)

The Libs had been pulling out troops two years prior to that.

troops or “advisors”?

Fair call.

Bogsnorkler said:

sibeen said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Nah, troops were out by 71. gough put an end to conscription i believe.

Gough did pull the troops out, about the 17 who were left :)

The Libs had been pulling out troops two years prior to that.

troops or “advisors”?

Advisors with guns :)

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Sings, we are Australian..

Do you know that in Mandarin?

Maybe it will be banned>?

We are Far South China?

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

Rubbish.

ref?

Any history book written about Australian involvement in the Vietnam war.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

Rubbish.

ref?

history.

I remember now, even though I was there at the time.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Do you know that in Mandarin?

Maybe it will be banned>?

We are Far South China?

Not yet.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Maybe it will be banned>?

We are Far South China?

Not yet.

I meant they will replace We are Australian with it.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Do you know that in Mandarin?

Maybe it will be banned>?

We are Far South China?

I’m not.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

Rubbish.

ref?

Any history book written about Australian involvement in the Vietnam war.

Sorry for not reading them. I thought I was alive then and didn’t really want to remember much of it.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

We are Far South China?

Not yet.

I meant they will replace We are Australian with it.

Don’t like the title and most likely not the lyrics.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Maybe it will be banned>?

We are Far South China?

I’m not.

just take a pebble

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Not yet.

I meant they will replace We are Australian with it.

Don’t like the title and most likely not the lyrics.

+ 25million

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

I meant they will replace We are Australian with it.

Don’t like the title and most likely not the lyrics.

+ 25million

What’s the problem with them?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Don’t like the title and most likely not the lyrics.

+ 25million

What’s the problem with them?

You enjoy authoritorianism?

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

+ 25million

What’s the problem with them?

You enjoy authoritorianism?

Anthems and songs about how great your nation is are propaganda anyway doesn’t matter where that may be, some less than others

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

+ 25million

What’s the problem with them?

You enjoy authoritorianism?

What authoritorianism?

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What’s the problem with them?

You enjoy authoritorianism?

Anthems and songs about how great your nation is are propaganda anyway doesn’t matter where that may be, some less than others

To be sure, I only move my lips when someone may be looking to see if I know the lyrics.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What’s the problem with them?

You enjoy authoritorianism?

What authoritorianism?

we all sing along.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

You enjoy authoritorianism?

Anthems and songs about how great your nation is are propaganda anyway doesn’t matter where that may be, some less than others

To be sure, I only move my lips when someone may be looking to see if I know the lyrics.

Myself as well, I don’t sing hymns either at funerals as I don’t believe and it would be wrong to sing praise

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Anthems and songs about how great your nation is are propaganda anyway doesn’t matter where that may be, some less than others

To be sure, I only move my lips when someone may be looking to see if I know the lyrics.

Myself as well, I don’t sing hymns either at funerals as I don’t believe and it would be wrong to sing praise

Having sung in choirs I am aware of the power of the lyrics.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

You enjoy authoritorianism?

What authoritorianism?

we all sing along.

Something I find amusing is when William S Boroughs was asked to give a thanksgiving prayer he gave a very honest scathing one.

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

I knew a bloke who said that the Navy saved him from Vietnam.

He wanted to join the Navy Reserve, but they weren’t really recruiting at the time. But, they agreed to talk to him.

‘Why do want to join the RANR?’

‘Because I reckon my birthday will come out in the ballot, and the Army will send me to Vietnam, and the Viet Cong will kill me.’

‘Hmm…fair enough. You’re in. If the Army asks, tell ‘em you belong to us.’

Let me simply say that I have no flags waving on my gateposts or anywhere. Do I need to? I was born here. I am an Australian whenever I am asked.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

To be sure, I only move my lips when someone may be looking to see if I know the lyrics.

Myself as well, I don’t sing hymns either at funerals as I don’t believe and it would be wrong to sing praise

Having sung in choirs I am aware of the power of the lyrics.

Funny that as when I was in a church a few years ago for a wedding when the congregation spoke in unison its sounded like a Borg collective, resistance is futile

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

I knew a bloke who said that the Navy saved him from Vietnam.

He wanted to join the Navy Reserve, but they weren’t really recruiting at the time. But, they agreed to talk to him.

‘Why do want to join the RANR?’

‘Because I reckon my birthday will come out in the ballot, and the Army will send me to Vietnam, and the Viet Cong will kill me.’

‘Hmm…fair enough. You’re in. If the Army asks, tell ‘em you belong to us.’

I enjoyed that.

roughbarked said:

Let me simply say that I have no flags waving on my gateposts or anywhere. Do I need to? I was born here. I am an Australian whenever I am asked.

Any nation can’t be praising itself if it has any dirty laundry in regards to the treatment of the native population, exploitation of immigrants, hates crimes and so on

roughbarked said:

Let me simply say that I have no flags waving on my gateposts or anywhere. Do I need to? I was born here. I am an Australian whenever I am asked.

That’s pretty much what “I am Australian” says, isn’t it?

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Gough saved me from Vietnam.

I knew a bloke who said that the Navy saved him from Vietnam.

He wanted to join the Navy Reserve, but they weren’t really recruiting at the time. But, they agreed to talk to him.

‘Why do want to join the RANR?’

‘Because I reckon my birthday will come out in the ballot, and the Army will send me to Vietnam, and the Viet Cong will kill me.’

‘Hmm…fair enough. You’re in. If the Army asks, tell ‘em you belong to us.’

I enjoyed that.

OK time to fess up. As has been pointed out, Gough saved me from conscription. and my memory had that tagged to the Vietnam war. OK got that cleared up?
My worry at the time and still would be now. That in a democracy why could we be sent to a war before we were allowed to vote against it?

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Let me simply say that I have no flags waving on my gateposts or anywhere. Do I need to? I was born here. I am an Australian whenever I am asked.

Any nation can’t be praising itself if it has any dirty laundry in regards to the treatment of the native population, exploitation of immigrants, hates crimes and so on

If you took the USA and actually counted all the flags waving on any particular day, could they possibly add up to a fraction of the durt flags you mentioned?

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Let me simply say that I have no flags waving on my gateposts or anywhere. Do I need to? I was born here. I am an Australian whenever I am asked.

That’s pretty much what “I am Australian” says, isn’t it?

For a greater proportion of us, I’d cautiously propose.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I knew a bloke who said that the Navy saved him from Vietnam.

He wanted to join the Navy Reserve, but they weren’t really recruiting at the time. But, they agreed to talk to him.

‘Why do want to join the RANR?’

‘Because I reckon my birthday will come out in the ballot, and the Army will send me to Vietnam, and the Viet Cong will kill me.’

‘Hmm…fair enough. You’re in. If the Army asks, tell ‘em you belong to us.’

I enjoyed that.

OK time to fess up. As has been pointed out, Gough saved me from conscription. and my memory had that tagged to the Vietnam war. OK got that cleared up?
My worry at the time and still would be now. That in a democracy why could we be sent to a war before we were allowed to vote against it?

conscription age 18
voting age 18

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I enjoyed that.

OK time to fess up. As has been pointed out, Gough saved me from conscription. and my memory had that tagged to the Vietnam war. OK got that cleared up?
My worry at the time and still would be now. That in a democracy why could we be sent to a war before we were allowed to vote against it?

conscription age 18
voting age 18

Not at the time.
Voting was still 21.

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

OK time to fess up. As has been pointed out, Gough saved me from conscription. and my memory had that tagged to the Vietnam war. OK got that cleared up?
My worry at the time and still would be now. That in a democracy why could we be sent to a war before we were allowed to vote against it?

conscription age 18
voting age 18

Not at the time.
Voting was still 21.

For me at least.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I knew a bloke who said that the Navy saved him from Vietnam.

He wanted to join the Navy Reserve, but they weren’t really recruiting at the time. But, they agreed to talk to him.

‘Why do want to join the RANR?’

‘Because I reckon my birthday will come out in the ballot, and the Army will send me to Vietnam, and the Viet Cong will kill me.’

‘Hmm…fair enough. You’re in. If the Army asks, tell ‘em you belong to us.’

I enjoyed that.

OK time to fess up. As has been pointed out, Gough saved me from conscription. and my memory had that tagged to the Vietnam war. OK got that cleared up?
My worry at the time and still would be now. That in a democracy why could we be sent to a war before we were allowed to vote against it?

Has any war including itself since then achieved anything.

The last two Iraq and Afghanistan are they any safer for the population and were the people were fought against the result of foreign interference over the last 50 plus years (at least)

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I enjoyed that.

OK time to fess up. As has been pointed out, Gough saved me from conscription. and my memory had that tagged to the Vietnam war. OK got that cleared up?
My worry at the time and still would be now. That in a democracy why could we be sent to a war before we were allowed to vote against it?

Has any war including itself since then achieved anything.

The last two Iraq and Afghanistan are they any safer for the population and were the people were fought against the result of foreign interference over the last 50 plus years (at least)

That’s beside the point in that war conscripts and kills many that don’t have a say. Usually many more than did.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Let me simply say that I have no flags waving on my gateposts or anywhere. Do I need to? I was born here. I am an Australian whenever I am asked.

Any nation can’t be praising itself if it has any dirty laundry in regards to the treatment of the native population, exploitation of immigrants, hates crimes and so on

If you took the USA and actually counted all the flags waving on any particular day, could they possibly add up to a fraction of the durt flags you mentioned?

You could have a speech saying we are OK but have a long way to go and sorry for what a mess we have created over the years.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

OK time to fess up. As has been pointed out, Gough saved me from conscription. and my memory had that tagged to the Vietnam war. OK got that cleared up?
My worry at the time and still would be now. That in a democracy why could we be sent to a war before we were allowed to vote against it?

Has any war including itself since then achieved anything.

The last two Iraq and Afghanistan are they any safer for the population and were the people were fought against the result of foreign interference over the last 50 plus years (at least)

That’s beside the point in that war conscripts and kills many that don’t have a say. Usually many more than did.

That’s true as well but I was thinking tens or hundreds of thousands of people are killed, trillions of dollars spent on weapons and destroying things and you achieve nothing.
Every other day a bomb or killing takes place in those aforementioned countries, they may be slightly better but that’s about it

sorry correct thread

speaking of thermally hardened bread slices, eat that, taxpayers

—

Mr Porter has settled with the ABC over his claim he was defamed in a story about an unnamed cabinet minister accused of an historical alleged rape.

He strenuously denies the allegation.

In court action that saw Mr Porter’s barrister removed from the case over a conflict of interest, his lawyers argued they should only have to pay 70 per cent of costs because of a late affidavit from the other side.

But the Federal Court has ruled it was not late and he will have to pay the full costs.

More to come.

Ms Dyer told the court she’d sought advice, linked to the main issue, from Ms Chrysanthou before the barrister had taken on the Porter brief.

Ms Dyer’s concern was that Ms Chrysanthou had privileged information that could help Mr Porter’s case.

—

¡ aha, there, you see, innocent !

The 2001 federal election is remembered as the Tampa election: the campaign when a group of asylum seekers in a stranded Indonesian fishing vessel were rescued in the Indian Ocean by the captain of the MV Tampa, a Norwegian container ship.

Amid the escalation of fear about national security after September 11, the incident sparked the ugly escalation of border protection rhetoric and spawned famous John Howard campaign launch declaration that “we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come”.

People arriving in boats, the dark suggestions went, could possibly be terrorists, amongst other things. Four young boys among the 433 asylum seekers on the Tampa were subsequently taken in by New Zealand.

Abbas Nazari was one of them. Seven years old at the time, the now very cheery young man has been studying in the US recently after winning a Fulbright Scholarship and will release a book on his life in August to mark 20 years since the Tampa incident.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-12/scott-morrison-next-election-biloela-family-immigration/100206992

sarahs mum said:

The 2001 federal election is remembered as the Tampa election: the campaign when a group of asylum seekers in a stranded Indonesian fishing vessel were rescued in the Indian Ocean by the captain of the MV Tampa, a Norwegian container ship.

Amid the escalation of fear about national security after September 11, the incident sparked the ugly escalation of border protection rhetoric and spawned famous John Howard campaign launch declaration that “we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come”.

People arriving in boats, the dark suggestions went, could possibly be terrorists, amongst other things. Four young boys among the 433 asylum seekers on the Tampa were subsequently taken in by New Zealand.

Abbas Nazari was one of them. Seven years old at the time, the now very cheery young man has been studying in the US recently after winning a Fulbright Scholarship and will release a book on his life in August to mark 20 years since the Tampa incident.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-12/scott-morrison-next-election-biloela-family-immigration/100206992

I’ve got that open to read, haven’t got to it yet.

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

When Labor had association with unions (which it’s been trying to cut for a long time now), it was deemed to be dreadful, all those union types with their own agendas influencing the party in its platform and its selection of candidates.

But it’s ok when the Liberal party is the subject of an attempted takeover by gibberish-speaking snake-handling Bible-literalists who want to bring back stoning of adultresses and laws about what clothing fibre combinations you can wear.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

When Labor had association with unions (which it’s been trying to cut for a long time now), it was deemed to be dreadful, all those union types with their own agendas influencing the party in its platform and its selection of candidates.

But it’s ok when the Liberal party is the subject of an attempted takeover by gibberish-speaking snake-handling Bible-literalists who want to bring back stoning of adultresses and laws about what clothing fibre combinations you can wear.

yes because they actually won the election, that’s what Australians want, proved

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

It has been somewhat nipped in the bud in the Victorian Liberal party over the past year with all manner of internal ructions that requires.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

When Labor had association with unions (which it’s been trying to cut for a long time now), it was deemed to be dreadful, all those union types with their own agendas influencing the party in its platform and its selection of candidates.

The ALP is the political arm of the union movement not the other way round.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

When Labor had association with unions (which it’s been trying to cut for a long time now), it was deemed to be dreadful, all those union types with their own agendas influencing the party in its platform and its selection of candidates.

But it’s ok when the Liberal party is the subject of an attempted takeover by gibberish-speaking snake-handling Bible-literalists who want to bring back stoning of adultresses and laws about what clothing fibre combinations you can wear.

It will be self-defeating. The day they take over the party it will collapse into a fringe movement. Just like the christian parties of the 1980s and 90s. They never got to more than a couple of percent of the vote, despite using their church networks to promote themselves and urge members to vote for them. (I know, I was raised in those sorts of circles) After a while they conceded defeat and started joining mainstream parties with the hoping of gaining influence. There’s a small core of them that have captured an upper house seat in the WA parliament, and that person is one of the most hated politicians going around, within his own party and without. If they took over the whole party it would be finished.

Witty Rejoinder said:

The ALP is the political arm of the union movement not the other way round.

They have been making efforts to forget that for a while now. For some reason, it doesn’t sell well at the polling booth.

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

Superstitious creeps should sod off back to their temples.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The ALP is the political arm of the union movement not the other way round.

They have been making efforts to forget that for a while now. For some reason, it doesn’t sell well at the polling booth.

These tidbits about the the Labor party that you frequently air have little grounding in reality I’m afraid.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Divine Right: Pentecostal recruitment drive divides SA Libs

EXCLUSIVE | Adelaide Pentecostal parishioners have been told it is their “mission” to join political parties so they can shape policy and preselections – amid claims senior Liberals are actively recruiting from their ranks – with a Marshall Government minister telling a local congregation to rail against the separation of church and state.

Read more:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/06/04/the-divine-right-pentecostal-recruitment-drive-divides-sa-libs/

This has been going on for years.

Superstitious creeps should sod off back to their temples.

Well yes. There is nothing more worldly that politics, they shouldn’t get themselves involved in wordly matters.

And then there’s that little Anglican priest, often referred to by the ALP as ‘our man in Gosford’

Peak Warming Man said:

And then there’s that little Anglican priest, often referred to by the ALP as ‘our man in Gosford’

Nice to see that a good person is seen to be on the left.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The ALP is the political arm of the union movement not the other way round.

They have been making efforts to forget that for a while now. For some reason, it doesn’t sell well at the polling booth.

These tidbits about the the Labor party that you frequently air have little grounding in reality I’m afraid.

Labor has often been painted as a party subject to the influence of ‘hidden forces’.

We can go back to the Labor National Conference discussing the matter of an American base in Australia in 1963, which was reported as ’36 unknown men’ making decisions about the country’s safety (more commonly known as ‘the 36 faceless men’.)

In the 1960s and especially in the industrial strife of the 1970s, conservative parties and press made a great deal of Labor’s ties to the union movement, with repeated insinuations about the party being beholden to the union leaders’ own private agendas in shaping the actions of Labor governments, presumably in the service of some communistic cause to ‘hand the country over to the Reds’.

The card still gets played, and, while it doesn’t work as well as it used to for the conservatives, it still has some effect at the polling booth. As a result, while Labor maintains ties to the union movement, and the movement provides both policy input and candidates, it’s worked hard to downplay that (or, at least, to keep it out of the headlines) for some time now.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

They have been making efforts to forget that for a while now. For some reason, it doesn’t sell well at the polling booth.

These tidbits about the the Labor party that you frequently air have little grounding in reality I’m afraid.

Labor has often been painted as a party subject to the influence of ‘hidden forces’.

We can go back to the Labor National Conference discussing the matter of an American base in Australia in 1963, which was reported as ’36 unknown men’ making decisions about the country’s safety (more commonly known as ‘the 36 faceless men’.)

In the 1960s and especially in the industrial strife of the 1970s, conservative parties and press made a great deal of Labor’s ties to the union movement, with repeated insinuations about the party being beholden to the union leaders’ own private agendas in shaping the actions of Labor governments, presumably in the service of some communistic cause to ‘hand the country over to the Reds’.

The card still gets played, and, while it doesn’t work as well as it used to for the conservatives, it still has some effect at the polling booth. As a result, while Labor maintains ties to the union movement, and the movement provides both policy input and candidates, it’s worked hard to downplay that (or, at least, to keep it out of the headlines) for some time now.

What the great unwashed do or say matters little when anyone with any interest in politics knows that the union movement is the backbone of the ALP. This relationship is not discounted any more than that of the Coalition’s ties to the business community are.

so what we need is a true independent, no church crying or unaustralian union hacks, someone who is in it purely for The Economy Must Grow, someone like Clive or Palmer or Frederick or something

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

These tidbits about the the Labor party that you frequently air have little grounding in reality I’m afraid.

Labor has often been painted as a party subject to the influence of ‘hidden forces’.

We can go back to the Labor National Conference discussing the matter of an American base in Australia in 1963, which was reported as ’36 unknown men’ making decisions about the country’s safety (more commonly known as ‘the 36 faceless men’.)

In the 1960s and especially in the industrial strife of the 1970s, conservative parties and press made a great deal of Labor’s ties to the union movement, with repeated insinuations about the party being beholden to the union leaders’ own private agendas in shaping the actions of Labor governments, presumably in the service of some communistic cause to ‘hand the country over to the Reds’.

The card still gets played, and, while it doesn’t work as well as it used to for the conservatives, it still has some effect at the polling booth. As a result, while Labor maintains ties to the union movement, and the movement provides both policy input and candidates, it’s worked hard to downplay that (or, at least, to keep it out of the headlines) for some time now.

What the great unwashed do or say matters little when anyone with any interest in politics knows that the union movement is the backbone of the ALP. This relationship is not discounted any more than that of the Coalition’s ties to the business community are.

It simple strategy. If the press are going to be derogatory about Labor’s links to unions, then it makes sense to minimise the profile of those links.

As you say, it’s not a lot different to the Coalition’s ties to business, especially big business. But, neither do we see the Coalition openly acknowledging any influence of big businesses/donors on their policies and actions. They prefer to keep that quiet.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

They have been making efforts to forget that for a while now. For some reason, it doesn’t sell well at the polling booth.

These tidbits about the the Labor party that you frequently air have little grounding in reality I’m afraid.

Labor has often been painted as a party subject to the influence of ‘hidden forces’.

We can go back to the Labor National Conference discussing the matter of an American base in Australia in 1963, which was reported as ’36 unknown men’ making decisions about the country’s safety (more commonly known as ‘the 36 faceless men’.)

In the 1960s and especially in the industrial strife of the 1970s, conservative parties and press made a great deal of Labor’s ties to the union movement, with repeated insinuations about the party being beholden to the union leaders’ own private agendas in shaping the actions of Labor governments, presumably in the service of some communistic cause to ‘hand the country over to the Reds’.

The card still gets played, and, while it doesn’t work as well as it used to for the conservatives, it still has some effect at the polling booth. As a result, while Labor maintains ties to the union movement, and the movement provides both policy input and candidates, it’s worked hard to downplay that (or, at least, to keep it out of the headlines) for some time now.

Rupert has worked hard to keep it that way.

THE Russell – Will be dead before I get vaccinated
@THE_Russell
·
4h
Morrison’s plane is diverted 400km away from Cornwall “due to fog” and when it lands, he is welcomed to Great Britain by a minor level apparatchik. Meanwhile, Merkel’s and Trudeau’s planes land at Cornwall.
THIS completes his humiliation on day one.

https://twitter.com/THE_Russell/status/1403504950865453056?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0cvQoi9u5rUfjQ3W7RxpIbOrWQxf3OPwO5ImciMYgatb2APWCWvsanJpM

sarahs mum said:

THE Russell – Will be dead before I get vaccinated
@THE_Russell
·
4h
Morrison’s plane is diverted 400km away from Cornwall “due to fog” and when it lands, he is welcomed to Great Britain by a minor level apparatchik. Meanwhile, Merkel’s and Trudeau’s planes land at Cornwall.
THIS completes his humiliation on day one.

https://twitter.com/THE_Russell/status/1403504950865453056?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0cvQoi9u5rUfjQ3W7RxpIbOrWQxf3OPwO5ImciMYgatb2APWCWvsanJpM

Wonder where the lady on the right got all those medals.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

THE Russell – Will be dead before I get vaccinated
@THE_Russell
·
4h
Morrison’s plane is diverted 400km away from Cornwall “due to fog” and when it lands, he is welcomed to Great Britain by a minor level apparatchik. Meanwhile, Merkel’s and Trudeau’s planes land at Cornwall.
THIS completes his humiliation on day one.

https://twitter.com/THE_Russell/status/1403504950865453056?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0cvQoi9u5rUfjQ3W7RxpIbOrWQxf3OPwO5ImciMYgatb2APWCWvsanJpM

Wonder where the lady on the right got all those medals.

In the UK you get them for having your Covid & flu jabs.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

THE Russell – Will be dead before I get vaccinated
@THE_Russell
·
4h
Morrison’s plane is diverted 400km away from Cornwall “due to fog” and when it lands, he is welcomed to Great Britain by a minor level apparatchik. Meanwhile, Merkel’s and Trudeau’s planes land at Cornwall.
THIS completes his humiliation on day one.

https://twitter.com/THE_Russell/status/1403504950865453056?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0cvQoi9u5rUfjQ3W7RxpIbOrWQxf3OPwO5ImciMYgatb2APWCWvsanJpM

Wonder where the lady on the right got all those medals.

could be campaign medals, service medals, good conduct etc.