Date: 26/06/2021 12:56:54
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1755839
Subject: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

As you know, I liike reviewing predictions of the future made in the past.

I don’t know whether Future Shock by Alvin Toffler actually falls into that category or not?
Got any opinions about it as a book?

Just a side note here, “The shock of the new” from 1980 has near zero overlap with the book “Future Shock”.

The book was first published in 1970. It deliberately deals only with the humanities, not with technology. So, how well has it held up 50+ years later?

Toffler: “To understand what is happening to us as we move into the age of super-industrialisation, we must analyse the process of acceleration and confront the concept of transcendence”

Mollwollfumble. Toffler’s book is not really about looking forward, it’s about looking back at the changes between 1950 and 1970. Back then, it looked as if we were moving into an age of super-industrialisation, but it never happened. A much smaller percentage of people now are working in industrial plants than were working there in the 1970s. In the present age, work life is dominated by employment in the humanities – customer-based and government-based jobs, with fewer people in factory jobs.

Toffler, “The parallel term ‘culture shock’ is immersion in a strange culture, which results in much bewilderment, frustration and disorientation. Yet culture shock is relatively mild in comparison with the much more serious malady, ‘future shock’.

Mollwollfumble. Culture shock is a symptom of ignorance. As information on world cultures becomes much more readily available the culture shock becomes and has become much less severe. And it seems to me that the bewilderment, frustration and disorientation ‘future shock’ has never been and never will be as serious as cuture shock was in the 1950 to 1970 era. In culture shock there is an immediatre and sudden change from one culture to another, which causes the disorientation. In ‘future shock’ nothing is immediate and very little is sudden. Except in war.

Toffler. “Change is accelerating, it has been particularly noticeable in the past 300 years. … population growth, … energy consumption”.

Mollwollfumble. 300 years is a long time. As regards population growth, the total fertility rate has been below sustainability levels in the USA since about 1970, below sustainability levels in Europe since the 1980s, below sustainability levels in China and Russia for a while, and falling to sustainabuluity levels throughout the rest of the world. The increase in energy consumption is still rising throughout the world.

Toffler. “The pace of life is increasing”.

Mollwollfumble. Well, not mine. Not those in unionised jobs who work fewer hours than they used to. Not in peak hour traffic.

Toffler. “The throw away society, typified by the paper wedding gown.”

Mollwollfumble. I don’t see people getting married in paper wedding gowns these days. Disposible clothing was a short term novely in the 1960s, not a future trend. Even back in the 1960s there was a trend towards longer-lived buildings, a trend that has continued. The throw away society is transitioning to the recycling society. I keep my fingers crossed that the present recycling society will also be short-lived, transitioning into a re-use society.

Toffler. “The fad machine. Fast-shifting preferences, flowing out of and interacting with high-speed technological change. Changing popularities of products and brands … flood of novelty”.

Mollwollfumble. No comment. Except that I see a movement of fads away from the materialistic one-upmanship ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ brigade towards the moral one-upmanship ‘land rights for gay whales’ brigade.

In Toffler’s book “ad-hocracy” means the increase in temporary employment and more rapid turn-over of staff.

Fair enough. But at first I thought he meant the control of the advertising and entertainment industries over the press, internet and politics.

Toffler: “The fractured family. The family is dead except fot the first year or two of child raising.”

Mollwollfumble thinks Toffler got that one right. Now we see a plethora of family types reminiscent of the plethora of religious cults centred on the 1970 to 1990 era.

Toffler: Tending towards a society with too much choice.

Mollwollfumble. HG Wells in “The shape of things to come” dealt with this as well. But Wells thought that this would be over before the year 1940. Toffler has a clearer vision here. The more rapid access to information has made the problem of too much choice less of a problem, because now we can compare 100 products within 5 minutes.

Toffler: “A surfeit of religious cults and street gangs”.

Mollwollfumble. Those eras are over now.

Toffler: “Celebrities become trend setters”

Mollwollfumble: Yes. Still occurs way too often.

Toffler: “We define future shock as the distress, both physical and psychological, that arises from an overload of the need to adapt and decide”.

Mollwollfumble: Good definition.

Toffler: Up to page 297, to be continued.

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Date: 26/06/2021 13:18:39
From: party_pants
ID: 1755852
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

I did not read the book, being before my time etc.

One of the oft repeated predictions in the 80s was that one day everything would be made by robots. But this never really happened, what won out in the end was shifting traditional production lines to poorer countries with cheaper labour, and the poreviously industrial countries shifting more towards service based economies.

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Date: 26/06/2021 14:56:58
From: transition
ID: 1755889
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

I got a secondhand book way back, could be twenty-plus years ago, read some of it, possibly found it too strident in some way

maybe worth mentioning the book could be, in some ways, the product of variously cultural determinism, a view of behavior from that, with a strong influence from sociology etc whatever

subject culture, what that is, I was watching Billy Connoly shortly ago on the tube, firstly about political correctness, and wondered if culture might be better understood as views that have a sameness across different ages of people (through life), that the real backbone of culture is that, always will be, or can be seen so, this allows for across-generation sameness also. That some things are substantially unchanging about being human, and human life

of course it seems probably obvious the ways of peoples, similarities are that, culture is that, can be seen that way, which doesn’t exclude whatever differences, or divergences

my point being that the most immediate environment of a human is internal, not external, and really it requires a perverse imposition to change that, or to try to change that

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Date: 26/06/2021 17:07:02
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1755948
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

Toffler’s “Future shock” is the direct ancestor of the “singularity hypothesis”.
Not from the technological viewpoint of artificial intelligence.
From the viewpoint that human intelligence won’t be able to cope with the accelerating pace of change.

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Date: 26/06/2021 19:29:03
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1756041
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

mollwollfumble said:


Toffler’s “Future shock” is the direct ancestor of the “singularity hypothesis”.
Not from the technological viewpoint of artificial intelligence.
From the viewpoint that human intelligence won’t be able to cope with the accelerating pace of change.

But can it cope with the slowing pace of change?

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Date: 26/06/2021 20:24:54
From: Ian
ID: 1756074
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

I read the book back in the day. I thought it’s conclusions were fair but not shocking.

“Alvin Toffler’s main thought centers on the idea that modern man feels shock from rapid changes.”

I don’t know about this. One human strength is adaptability.

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Date: 3/07/2021 13:56:32
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1759629
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

the tofflers spoke about warehouses and just in time philosophy

all good unless theres a crisis – then you have no fall back position

australia isn’t an industrial society we are an industrial goods user rather than a maker of goods – the unions and taxes drove manufacturing out of australia.

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Date: 3/07/2021 14:00:26
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1759634
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

wookiemeister said:

australia isn’t an industrial society we are an industrial goods user rather than a maker of goods – the unions and taxes drove manufacturing out of australia.

Conservative governments and their programmes to destroy the power of unions didn’t help, either.

Having manufacturing largely leave Australia cut the legs from under a number of unions, which the L/NP and its backers really didn’t mind one bit.

They’ve tried to do the same to waterfront unions, and to the construction unions, with varying levels of success.

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Date: 3/07/2021 14:04:21
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1759637
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

australia isn’t an industrial society we are an industrial goods user rather than a maker of goods – the unions and taxes drove manufacturing out of australia.

Conservative governments and their programmes to destroy the power of unions didn’t help, either.

Having manufacturing largely leave Australia cut the legs from under a number of unions, which the L/NP and its backers really didn’t mind one bit.

They’ve tried to do the same to waterfront unions, and to the construction unions, with varying levels of success.

I still don’t get why the right wing nutters like wookie see Australia getting its manufactured goods from places with cheap labour and much bigger markets as a bad thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/07/2021 14:09:58
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1759645
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

australia isn’t an industrial society we are an industrial goods user rather than a maker of goods – the unions and taxes drove manufacturing out of australia.

Conservative governments and their programmes to destroy the power of unions didn’t help, either.

Having manufacturing largely leave Australia cut the legs from under a number of unions, which the L/NP and its backers really didn’t mind one bit.

They’ve tried to do the same to waterfront unions, and to the construction unions, with varying levels of success.


unions are criminal organisations i’m afraid – they lost any real use years ago.

all australian governments prefer cheap foreign imports

10 dollar widget from australia lasts 10 years – GST collected 1 dollar in ten years

5 dollar widget from china lasts 1 year – GST collected 5 dollars in ten years

the government is able to make 5 times more revenue to boost public servant super schemes than by australian manufacture

the GST can also be used to speed up immigration so more people can buy more widgets

its a ponzi scheme.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/07/2021 14:12:35
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1759647
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

australia isn’t an industrial society we are an industrial goods user rather than a maker of goods – the unions and taxes drove manufacturing out of australia.

Conservative governments and their programmes to destroy the power of unions didn’t help, either.

Having manufacturing largely leave Australia cut the legs from under a number of unions, which the L/NP and its backers really didn’t mind one bit.

They’ve tried to do the same to waterfront unions, and to the construction unions, with varying levels of success.


unions are criminal organisations i’m afraid – they lost any real use years ago.

all australian governments prefer cheap foreign imports

10 dollar widget from australia lasts 10 years – GST collected 1 dollar in ten years

5 dollar widget from china lasts 1 year – GST collected 5 dollars in ten years

the government is able to make 5 times more revenue to boost public servant super schemes than by australian manufacture

the GST can also be used to speed up immigration so more people can buy more widgets

its a ponzi scheme.

As always it’s good to have you back Wookie. What’s your latest outrageous prediction?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/07/2021 14:13:02
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1759648
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

The Rev Dodgson said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

australia isn’t an industrial society we are an industrial goods user rather than a maker of goods – the unions and taxes drove manufacturing out of australia.

Conservative governments and their programmes to destroy the power of unions didn’t help, either.

Having manufacturing largely leave Australia cut the legs from under a number of unions, which the L/NP and its backers really didn’t mind one bit.

They’ve tried to do the same to waterfront unions, and to the construction unions, with varying levels of success.

I still don’t get why the right wing nutters like wookie see Australia getting its manufactured goods from places with cheap labour and much bigger markets as a bad thing.


i’m not right wing

if i had been around on the german side in WW2 i would have shot hitler myself for his incompetence

Reply Quote

Date: 3/07/2021 14:15:04
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1759651
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

Witty Rejoinder said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Conservative governments and their programmes to destroy the power of unions didn’t help, either.

Having manufacturing largely leave Australia cut the legs from under a number of unions, which the L/NP and its backers really didn’t mind one bit.

They’ve tried to do the same to waterfront unions, and to the construction unions, with varying levels of success.


unions are criminal organisations i’m afraid – they lost any real use years ago.

all australian governments prefer cheap foreign imports

10 dollar widget from australia lasts 10 years – GST collected 1 dollar in ten years

5 dollar widget from china lasts 1 year – GST collected 5 dollars in ten years

the government is able to make 5 times more revenue to boost public servant super schemes than by australian manufacture

the GST can also be used to speed up immigration so more people can buy more widgets

its a ponzi scheme.

As always it’s good to have you back Wookie. What’s your latest outrageous prediction?


dunno

i’m too busy building my pyramid

Reply Quote

Date: 3/07/2021 14:18:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1759654
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

https://youtu.be/0dYMRj9whp4

DIGGING A SECRET TUNNEL Part 2

Reply Quote

Date: 3/07/2021 14:32:14
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1759662
Subject: re: Future Shock by Alvin Toffler

wookiemeister said:


https://youtu.be/0dYMRj9whp4

DIGGING A SECRET TUNNEL Part 2


i’m surprised he didn’t try to pour reinforced concrete walls to hold back the soil. the best time to tunnel is during the day when most people are at work or you have the coppers sniffing around trying to find the source of the noise complaints.

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