A pub-style handheld dart will easily penetrate ballistics gel, will penetrate supple leather, and chain mail.

Which makes me wonder.

Given that some types of bulletproof armour are not stab-proof, could a dart penetrate bulletproof armour?
If not, could a dart be made that would penetrate personal bulletproof armour?

mollwollfumble said:

A pub-style handheld dart will easily penetrate ballistics gel, will penetrate supple leather, and chain mail.

Which makes me wonder.

Given that some types of bulletproof armour are not stab-proof, could a dart penetrate bulletproof armour?
If not, could a dart be made that would penetrate personal bulletproof armour?

yes. With enough mass and given enough velocity, it could even do damage. (sabot rounds)

mollwollfumble said:

A pub-style handheld dart will easily penetrate ballistics gel, will penetrate supple leather, and chain mail.

Which makes me wonder.

Given that some types of bulletproof armour are not stab-proof, could a dart penetrate bulletproof armour?
If not, could a dart be made that would penetrate personal bulletproof armour?

There’s been a variety of dart-type ammunitions made over the years.

They’re more frequently called ‘flechette’ rounds.

Flechettes are usually bits of steel that look like nails about 25mm long with little fins on the blunt end. Varying numbers of them are contained within one round of the ammunition,

A big example is the 105mm ‘beehive’ artillery round. it contains thousands of them. Set for ‘muzzle burst’, they do a quick job of mowing down vegetation in front of the guns so that registration markers can be set up and things like that.

During the defence of firebases Coral and Balmoral in the Vietnam war, one Viet Cong sapper, in an extreme example of poor tactical positioning, climbed atop the earthwork around a 105mm gun to find himself right in front of its muzzle just as it fired a beehive round.

The unlucky soldier disappeared. Entirely.

captain_spalding said:

mollwollfumble said:

A pub-style handheld dart will easily penetrate ballistics gel, will penetrate supple leather, and chain mail.

Which makes me wonder.

Given that some types of bulletproof armour are not stab-proof, could a dart penetrate bulletproof armour?
If not, could a dart be made that would penetrate personal bulletproof armour?

There’s been a variety of dart-type ammunitions made over the years.

They’re more frequently called ‘flechette’ rounds.

Flechettes are usually bits of steel that look like nails about 25mm long with little fins on the blunt end. Varying numbers of them are contained within one round of the ammunition,

A big example is the 105mm ‘beehive’ artillery round. it contains thousands of them. Set for ‘muzzle burst’, they do a quick job of mowing down vegetation in front of the guns so that registration markers can be set up and things like that.

During the defence of firebases Coral and Balmoral in the Vietnam war, one Viet Cong sapper, in an extreme example of poor tactical positioning, climbed atop the earthwork around a 105mm gun to find himself right in front of its muzzle just as it fired a beehive round.

The unlucky soldier disappeared. Entirely.

Haven’t flechettes been banned for combat?

btm said:

captain_spalding said:

mollwollfumble said:

A pub-style handheld dart will easily penetrate ballistics gel, will penetrate supple leather, and chain mail.

Which makes me wonder.

Given that some types of bulletproof armour are not stab-proof, could a dart penetrate bulletproof armour?
If not, could a dart be made that would penetrate personal bulletproof armour?

There’s been a variety of dart-type ammunitions made over the years.

They’re more frequently called ‘flechette’ rounds.

Flechettes are usually bits of steel that look like nails about 25mm long with little fins on the blunt end. Varying numbers of them are contained within one round of the ammunition,

A big example is the 105mm ‘beehive’ artillery round. it contains thousands of them. Set for ‘muzzle burst’, they do a quick job of mowing down vegetation in front of the guns so that registration markers can be set up and things like that.

During the defence of firebases Coral and Balmoral in the Vietnam war, one Viet Cong sapper, in an extreme example of poor tactical positioning, climbed atop the earthwork around a 105mm gun to find himself right in front of its muzzle just as it fired a beehive round.

The unlucky soldier disappeared. Entirely.

Haven’t flechettes been banned for combat?

I’ve just looked it up, and, no, they haven’t. There was an attempt to ban them a few years ago on the grounds that they caused unnecessary suffering, but it didn’t pass.

btm said:

btm said:

captain_spalding said:

There’s been a variety of dart-type ammunitions made over the years.

They’re more frequently called ‘flechette’ rounds.

Flechettes are usually bits of steel that look like nails about 25mm long with little fins on the blunt end. Varying numbers of them are contained within one round of the ammunition,

A big example is the 105mm ‘beehive’ artillery round. it contains thousands of them. Set for ‘muzzle burst’, they do a quick job of mowing down vegetation in front of the guns so that registration markers can be set up and things like that.

During the defence of firebases Coral and Balmoral in the Vietnam war, one Viet Cong sapper, in an extreme example of poor tactical positioning, climbed atop the earthwork around a 105mm gun to find himself right in front of its muzzle just as it fired a beehive round.

The unlucky soldier disappeared. Entirely.

Haven’t flechettes been banned for combat?

I’ve just looked it up, and, no, they haven’t. There was an attempt to ban them a few years ago on the grounds that they caused unnecessary suffering, but it didn’t pass.

> They’re more frequently called ‘flechette’ rounds. Flechettes are usually bits of steel that look like nails about 25mm long with little fins on the blunt end. Varying numbers of them are contained within one round of the ammunition,

Ta, I had wrongly thought that flechettes were different, more like ninja flying stars. Thanks for correcting me.

btm said:

Haven’t flechettes been banned for combat?

I’ve just looked it up, and, no, they haven’t. There was an attempt to ban them a few years ago on the grounds that they caused unnecessary suffering, but it didn’t pass.

> Haven’t flechettes been banned for combat?

Probably ones with poisoned tips have been banned. But perhaps not.

> They’re more frequently called ‘flechette’ rounds. Flechettes are usually bits of steel that look like nails about 25mm long with little fins on the blunt end. Varying numbers of them are contained within one round of the ammunition,

Ta, I had wrongly thought that flechettes were different, more like ninja flying stars. Thanks for correcting me.

Darts start at about $2.80 each. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203226087769?hash=item2f51380159:g:RBsAAOSwPKlfrDvd

Darts are unlikely to get through any bulletproof vest consisting of overlapping steel, boron carbide, silicon carbide, or aluminium oxide plates.
But for fibre-reinforced plastic, nylon or aluminium, perhaps.
15 layers of kevlar/aramid would be interesting to try.

“The test used a drop mass or sabot that carried the ice pick. Using gravitational force, the height of the drop mass above the vest was proportional to the impact energy. This test specified 109 joules of energy and a 7.3 kg drop mass with a drop height of 153 cm. The ice pick has a 4 mm diameter with a sharp tip with a 5.4 m/s terminal velocity in the test.”

Darts can be thrown accurately at one dart per 4 seconds (that’s slow).
Darts typically travel at between 17 and 22 km/h (that’s also slow)

Compare typical dart to standard ice pick.
Dart, Ice pick
22 g, 7.23 kg
2.35 mm, 4 mm
6.1 m/s, 5.4 m/s

Relative penetrating ability (pressure).
Dart 0.22 * (6.1/2.35)^2 = 1.48
Ice pick 7.23*(5.4/4)^2 = 13.2

A standard sharpened ice pick is a lot dealier in terms of penetrating a bullet-proof vest than a typical dart.

mollwollfumble said:

btm said:

Haven’t flechettes been banned for combat?

I’ve just looked it up, and, no, they haven’t. There was an attempt to ban them a few years ago on the grounds that they caused unnecessary suffering, but it didn’t pass.

> Haven’t flechettes been banned for combat?

Probably ones with poisoned tips have been banned. But perhaps not.

> They’re more frequently called ‘flechette’ rounds. Flechettes are usually bits of steel that look like nails about 25mm long with little fins on the blunt end. Varying numbers of them are contained within one round of the ammunition,

Ta, I had wrongly thought that flechettes were different, more like ninja flying stars. Thanks for correcting me.

Darts start at about $2.80 each. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203226087769?hash=item2f51380159:g:RBsAAOSwPKlfrDvd

Darts are unlikely to get through any bulletproof vest consisting of overlapping steel, boron carbide, silicon carbide, or aluminium oxide plates.
But for fibre-reinforced plastic, nylon or aluminium, perhaps.
15 layers of kevlar/aramid would be interesting to try.

“The test used a drop mass or sabot that carried the ice pick. Using gravitational force, the height of the drop mass above the vest was proportional to the impact energy. This test specified 109 joules of energy and a 7.3 kg drop mass with a drop height of 153 cm. The ice pick has a 4 mm diameter with a sharp tip with a 5.4 m/s terminal velocity in the test.”

Darts can be thrown accurately at one dart per 4 seconds (that’s slow).
Darts typically travel at between 17 and 22 km/h (that’s also slow)

Compare typical dart to standard ice pick.
Dart, Ice pick
22 g, 7.23 kg
2.35 mm, 4 mm
6.1 m/s, 5.4 m/s

Relative penetrating ability (pressure).
Dart 0.22 * (6.1/2.35)^2 = 1.48
Ice pick 7.23*(5.4/4)^2 = 13.2

A standard sharpened ice pick is a lot dealier in terms of penetrating a bullet-proof vest than a typical dart.

Doano about bullet proof vests
but even a bar dart hitting an unprotected spot will definitely get their attention! =8-O <-:{
(however, in a combat situation would also most probably get you kilt! )