Back here for a question i just thought of.

TV ads for dishwashers claim that they use a lot less water than ‘hand’ washing.

So, i Googled this, and there’s a massive number of articles (not all by dishwasher manufacturers) that claim a ‘typical’ manual wash up can use up to 27 gallons/122 litres of water.

WTF are these people doing? Washing them with a 100mm fire hose?

I just washed up the breakfast things. A plate, a bowl, two mugs, a small saucepan, a few bits of cutlery. 7 – 8 litres of hot water, tops, possibly less. A litre or so to rinse some things.

Last night’s dinner wash-up: dunno, but had to be not more than 11 – 12 litres. And i’m a fussy washer-up – it has to be clean.

One article says ‘An Energy Star certified dishwasher can use as little as 3 gallons per load (around 11 litres)’. OK, on a par with hand washing.

Another says ‘Generally, the average dishwasher uses between six and 10 gallons (27 – 45 litres) per wash cycle, whereas older dishwashers might use up to 16 gallons per cycle.’

So, even the most generous assessment says ‘no better than handwashing, and the ‘average’ is many times worse.

I say ‘bullshit’ to dishwashers.

What say you?

captain_spalding said:

Back here for a question i just thought of.

TV ads for dishwashers claim that they use a lot less water than ‘hand’ washing.

So, i Googled this, and there’s a massive number of articles (not all by dishwasher manufacturers) that claim a ‘typical’ manual wash up can use up to 27 gallons/122 litres of water.

WTF are these people doing? Washing them with a 100mm fire hose?

I just washed up the breakfast things. A plate, a bowl, two mugs, a small saucepan, a few bits of cutlery. 7 – 8 litres of hot water, tops, possibly less. A litre or so to rinse some things.

Last night’s dinner wash-up: dunno, but had to be not more than 11 – 12 litres. And i’m a fussy washer-up – it has to be clean.

One article says ‘An Energy Star certified dishwasher can use as little as 3 gallons per load (around 11 litres)’. OK, on a par with hand washing.

Another says ‘Generally, the average dishwasher uses between six and 10 gallons (27 – 45 litres) per wash cycle, whereas older dishwashers might use up to 16 gallons per cycle.’

So, even the most generous assessment says ‘no better than handwashing, and the ‘average’ is many times worse.

I say ‘bullshit’ to dishwashers.

What say you?

Totally agree.
Being on rain water I am very water concious. For example, I put the plug in the washing up sink then turn on the hot water to that sink. The initial water is cold until the hot gets from the off peak heater to the sink. As a washup needs a reasonable volume of water in the sink this system provides it without waste.

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Back here for a question i just thought of.

TV ads for dishwashers claim that they use a lot less water than ‘hand’ washing.

So, i Googled this, and there’s a massive number of articles (not all by dishwasher manufacturers) that claim a ‘typical’ manual wash up can use up to 27 gallons/122 litres of water.

WTF are these people doing? Washing them with a 100mm fire hose?

I just washed up the breakfast things. A plate, a bowl, two mugs, a small saucepan, a few bits of cutlery. 7 – 8 litres of hot water, tops, possibly less. A litre or so to rinse some things.

Last night’s dinner wash-up: dunno, but had to be not more than 11 – 12 litres. And i’m a fussy washer-up – it has to be clean.

One article says ‘An Energy Star certified dishwasher can use as little as 3 gallons per load (around 11 litres)’. OK, on a par with hand washing.

Another says ‘Generally, the average dishwasher uses between six and 10 gallons (27 – 45 litres) per wash cycle, whereas older dishwashers might use up to 16 gallons per cycle.’

So, even the most generous assessment says ‘no better than handwashing, and the ‘average’ is many times worse.

I say ‘bullshit’ to dishwashers.

What say you?

Totally agree.
Being on rain water I am very water concious. For example, I put the plug in the washing up sink then turn on the hot water to that sink. The initial water is cold until the hot gets from the off peak heater to the sink. As a washup needs a reasonable volume of water in the sink this system provides it without waste.

OK. SWMBO never won that argument here. She even had the powerpoints and taps put in to have a dishwasher fitted. Showed her that our kitchen drain would not take the extra water and our water bill would go up by X amount. The fittings are still thhere but the dishwasher isn’t.

depends but how are people doing these washings, are they running continuous fresh flow over the cutcrock or are they dipping in multiple successive baths

SCIENCE said:

depends but how are people doing these washings, are they running continuous fresh flow over the cutcrock or are they dipping in multiple successive baths

To rinse off soap. Hold plate under tap with one hand. Turn on water with other hand. Rinse. Turn off tap. Place plate (or whatever) in draining rack. Repeat as needed.

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

depends but how are people doing these washings, are they running continuous fresh flow over the cutcrock or are they dipping in multiple successive baths

To rinse off soap. Hold plate under tap with one hand. Turn on water with other hand. Rinse. Turn off tap. Place plate (or whatever) in draining rack. Repeat as needed.

we mean

detergent and scrubber in left bath

dip in middle bath

dip in right bath

dry on rack

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Back here for a question i just thought of.

TV ads for dishwashers claim that they use a lot less water than ‘hand’ washing.

So, i Googled this, and there’s a massive number of articles (not all by dishwasher manufacturers) that claim a ‘typical’ manual wash up can use up to 27 gallons/122 litres of water.

WTF are these people doing? Washing them with a 100mm fire hose?

I just washed up the breakfast things. A plate, a bowl, two mugs, a small saucepan, a few bits of cutlery. 7 – 8 litres of hot water, tops, possibly less. A litre or so to rinse some things.

Last night’s dinner wash-up: dunno, but had to be not more than 11 – 12 litres. And i’m a fussy washer-up – it has to be clean.

One article says ‘An Energy Star certified dishwasher can use as little as 3 gallons per load (around 11 litres)’. OK, on a par with hand washing.

Another says ‘Generally, the average dishwasher uses between six and 10 gallons (27 – 45 litres) per wash cycle, whereas older dishwashers might use up to 16 gallons per cycle.’

So, even the most generous assessment says ‘no better than handwashing, and the ‘average’ is many times worse.

I say ‘bullshit’ to dishwashers.

What say you?

Totally agree.
Being on rain water I am very water concious. For example, I put the plug in the washing up sink then turn on the hot water to that sink. The initial water is cold until the hot gets from the off peak heater to the sink. As a washup needs a reasonable volume of water in the sink this system provides it without waste.

I use the cold bit that comes first out of the hot tap for rinsing the stuff that has had milk in it or has something dried onto it. Then the plug goes in and the dishwashing stuff into my milk bottle(s). They are washed first, with the hot tap running slowly. I tip some of that soapy water into any glasses to be washed and then rinse the suds out of my milk bottles. Then the glasses, dip, swish with dishmop, rinse under hot tap which is still running slowly. Hang up dishmop and pick up dish brush. Plates next, rinsing with the hot water which is still running slowly. At some point the sink is full and there is no more rinsing. Cutlery is done next and then cooking utensils. We dry with towelling teatowels and put away immediately. Essentially I use my mother’s motto…wash the “clean” stuff first, gradually moving to the dirtiest.

If the wok or a baking dish has been used, it has water and dishwashing liquid put into it immediately after dishing up the food and then soaks. They can then be brushed, steelwooled if necessary, all very quickly after the rest of the washing up has been done. This uses a little more water.

I’d guess around a plastic bucket worth per wash, so 8-10 litres. Like Tamb, we’ve been on tank for many years so are careful with the water.

since way back in the day there arrived power stations with variable load and surplus capacity, and originally perhaps it was for lighting at night, street lighting maybe, anyway commercially inventive minds turned to electric appliances that promised great savings, great benefits, to assist sales, and the culture persists to this day, so solidly that it is a faint memory now that someone once said most of these things do not much else than save elbow grease, and many are more promise than they really deliver that way, everything considered

captain_spalding said:

…claim a ‘typical’ manual wash up can use up to…

I am always wary of statements that use the term “Up to” while also claiming their solution can use “as little as…”

If you have one plate, one bowl, one knife, one fork, one spoon and one glass, then hand washing is no doubt far more water efficient. But if you have a family and can stack the dishwasher full, then it may very well be more water efficient.

As for using 112 litres of water, that may be comparing multiple washes and rinses to get it more comparable to the dishwasher’s typical load.

I love my dishwasher, as much as I love the washing machine and any other appliance that used to take hours but now takes me second of manual labour…

my grandmother and great grandmothers would be jealous

I’ll call bullshit to anything.
But personally I’m fastidious about keeping a clean sink, I was up after every meal and I washup under a running tap.

Also I’ve found that Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid has more grease cutting power and is softer on the hands.

Peak Warming Man said:

I was up after every meal

TMI

Peak Warming Man said:

Also I’ve found that Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid has more grease cutting power and is softer on the hands.

I prefer Morning Fresh Original. Being on rainwater means that the water is very soft & only takes a very small amount of MFO to do the job.

Tamb said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Also I’ve found that Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid has more grease cutting power and is softer on the hands.

I prefer Morning Fresh Original. Being on rainwater means that the water is very soft & only takes a very small amount of MFO to do the job.

We may need to refer to the Ponds Institute.

Tamb said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Also I’ve found that Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid has more grease cutting power and is softer on the hands.

I prefer Morning Fresh Original. Being on rainwater means that the water is very soft & only takes a very small amount of MFO to do the job.

The difference between the softness of rainwater and town water is very evident at the redoubt and soap lathers a lot easier with tank water.

Tamb said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Also I’ve found that Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid has more grease cutting power and is softer on the hands.

I prefer Morning Fresh Original. Being on rainwater means that the water is very soft & only takes a very small amount of MFO to do the job.

+1. Since the early 1980s when I first became aware of it. And we buy a 4l container and decant it to the smaller container under the sink. We don’t buy it very often.

sibeen said:

Tamb said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Also I’ve found that Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid has more grease cutting power and is softer on the hands.

I prefer Morning Fresh Original. Being on rainwater means that the water is very soft & only takes a very small amount of MFO to do the job.

We may need to refer to the Ponds Institute.

Or to Madge the manicurist.

buffy said:

Tamb said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Also I’ve found that Palmolive Dishwashing Liquid has more grease cutting power and is softer on the hands.

I prefer Morning Fresh Original. Being on rainwater means that the water is very soft & only takes a very small amount of MFO to do the job.

+1. Since the early 1980s when I first became aware of it. And we buy a 4l container and decant it to the smaller container under the sink. We don’t buy it very often.

I buy whatever is on special.

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

ChrispenEvan said:

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

I use flatbread for plates, then just eat the plates. No washing up, no rubbish.

btm said:

ChrispenEvan said:

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

I use flatbread for plates, then just eat the plates. No washing up, no rubbish.

we’re dogs so we just eat off the ground, don’t even get our paws dirty

ChrispenEvan said:

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

I think the plastics are in the prcoess of being banned and replaced with biodegradable options. Bamboo knives and sporks are the future.

btm said:

ChrispenEvan said:

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

I use flatbread for plates, then just eat the plates. No washing up, no rubbish.

I like rubbish. keeps people employed in a deadend job.

party_pants said:

ChrispenEvan said:

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

I think the plastics are in the prcoess of being banned and replaced with biodegradable options. Bamboo knives and sporks are the future.

goddamn hippies.

party_pants said:

ChrispenEvan said:

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

I think the plastics are in the prcoess of being banned and replaced with biodegradable options. Bamboo knives and sporks are the future.

Chopsticks?

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

ChrispenEvan said:

paper plates, plastic cutlery.

I think the plastics are in the prcoess of being banned and replaced with biodegradable options. Bamboo knives and sporks are the future.

Chopsticks?

most westerners don’t use them, except for novelty value.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

I think the plastics are in the prcoess of being banned and replaced with biodegradable options. Bamboo knives and sporks are the future.

Chopsticks?

most westerners don’t use them, except for novelty value.

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

Chopsticks?

most westerners don’t use them, except for novelty value.

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

I think the plastics are in the prcoess of being banned and replaced with biodegradable options. Bamboo knives and sporks are the future.

Chopsticks?

most westerners don’t use them, except for novelty value.

My hand eye co-ordination is brilliant and I’ve got reflexes like a cat but am useless with chopsticks, always have been.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

most westerners don’t use them, except for novelty value.

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

Our new overlords the CCP will make them compulsory.

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

Our new overlords the CCP will make them compulsory.

The new CCP overlords will walk funny and sit uncomfortably due to all the chopsticks shoved up their arses.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Tamb said:

Chopsticks?

most westerners don’t use them, except for novelty value.

My hand eye co-ordination is brilliant and I’ve got reflexes like a cat but am useless with chopsticks, always have been.

cats can’t use chopsticks either.

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

Our new overlords the CCP will make them compulsory.

They may find the chopsticks in an unusual place if they try and tell Sharron, the cook at the Railway Hotel in Cunnamulla, that chopsticks are compulsory.

I don’t like this thread, too many people agreeing with other people.
It’s not right.

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t like this thread, too many people agreeing with other people.
It’s not right.

we should go back to talking about dishwashers…

Peak Warming Man said:

Tamb said:

party_pants said:

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

Our new overlords the CCP will make them compulsory.

They may find the chopsticks in an unusual place if they try and tell Sharron, the cook at the Railway Hotel in Cunnamulla, that chopsticks are compulsory.

She’d use one through a huge country hamburger to keep it together.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

most westerners don’t use them, except for novelty value.

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food. Apparently I hold my chopsticks like a grandmother – according to some overseas students Mr buffy was mentoring at one stage. They came to our house and cooked us a meal. They were surprised we had a proper wok etc. Chopsticks are also brilliant for swirling noodles in the boiling water to break the “biscuit” apart. We also use them here at home for noodles and for some other Asian foods. Rice is a challenge unless you do sticky rice.

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t like this thread, too many people agreeing with other people.
It’s not right.

we should go back to talking about dishwashers…

Ah. The dreaded topic drift.

Tamb said:

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t like this thread, too many people agreeing with other people.
It’s not right.

we should go back to talking about dishwashers…

Ah. The dreaded topic drift.

So…how do you wash your chopsticks?

buffy said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food. Apparently I hold my chopsticks like a grandmother – according to some overseas students Mr buffy was mentoring at one stage. They came to our house and cooked us a meal. They were surprised we had a proper wok etc. Chopsticks are also brilliant for swirling noodles in the boiling water to break the “biscuit” apart. We also use them here at home for noodles and for some other Asian foods. Rice is a challenge unless you do sticky rice.

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

buffy said:

Tamb said:

Arts said:

we should go back to talking about dishwashers…

Ah. The dreaded topic drift.

So…how do you wash your chopsticks?

WB & D.

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food. Apparently I hold my chopsticks like a grandmother – according to some overseas students Mr buffy was mentoring at one stage. They came to our house and cooked us a meal. They were surprised we had a proper wok etc. Chopsticks are also brilliant for swirling noodles in the boiling water to break the “biscuit” apart. We also use them here at home for noodles and for some other Asian foods. Rice is a challenge unless you do sticky rice.

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

hollow chopsticks.

buffy said:

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food.

LOL, appropriate?

Tamb said:

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t like this thread, too many people agreeing with other people.
It’s not right.

we should go back to talking about dishwashers…

Ah. The dreaded topic drift.

no worries.

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food. Apparently I hold my chopsticks like a grandmother – according to some overseas students Mr buffy was mentoring at one stage. They came to our house and cooked us a meal. They were surprised we had a proper wok etc. Chopsticks are also brilliant for swirling noodles in the boiling water to break the “biscuit” apart. We also use them here at home for noodles and for some other Asian foods. Rice is a challenge unless you do sticky rice.

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

They do sticky rice. And they use a china spoon for soup.

I do have one instance of novelty value. It would have been in the 1980s and we went to a Chinese restaurant in Mildura. They had spoons on the table. We asked for chopsticks. Partway through our meal we realized we had the entire kitchen staff watching us through the little round window in the kitchen door. We had also been trained in ordering steamed rice, not fried rice (that is just something to use up leftovers!). And in taking some rice into your bowl and then some of the meat/veg dish on top and then eating.

ChrispenEvan said:

buffy said:

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food.

LOL, appropriate?

Yep, the food is prepared such that it can be eaten with chopsticks.

buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

buffy said:

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food.

LOL, appropriate?

Yep, the food is prepared such that it can be eaten with chopsticks.

can be eaten with a fork as well.

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t like this thread, too many people agreeing with other people.
It’s not right.

I disagree

tell you what else chopsticks are good for, for snack chips (crisps) out of the packet during computer work, keeps them fingers clean and reaches the good stuff easy

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t like this thread, too many people agreeing with other people.
It’s not right.

I disagree

i agree.

SCIENCE said:

tell you what else chopsticks are good for, for snack chips (crisps) out of the packet during computer work, keeps them fingers clean and reaches the good stuff easy

crisps have been prepared to be eaten using the fingers.

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food. Apparently I hold my chopsticks like a grandmother – according to some overseas students Mr buffy was mentoring at one stage. They came to our house and cooked us a meal. They were surprised we had a proper wok etc. Chopsticks are also brilliant for swirling noodles in the boiling water to break the “biscuit” apart. We also use them here at home for noodles and for some other Asian foods. Rice is a challenge unless you do sticky rice.

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

They do sticky rice. And they use a china spoon for soup.

I do have one instance of novelty value. It would have been in the 1980s and we went to a Chinese restaurant in Mildura. They had spoons on the table. We asked for chopsticks. Partway through our meal we realized we had the entire kitchen staff watching us through the little round window in the kitchen door. We had also been trained in ordering steamed rice, not fried rice (that is just something to use up leftovers!). And in taking some rice into your bowl and then some of the meat/veg dish on top and then eating.

they also, at times, lift bowls to their mouths which is not something westerners do… and sort of push food in…

ChrispenEvan said:

SCIENCE said:

tell you what else chopsticks are good for, for snack chips (crisps) out of the packet during computer work, keeps them fingers clean and reaches the good stuff easy

crisps have been prepared to be eaten using the fingers.

fingers are just natural chopsticks.

Arts said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

They do sticky rice. And they use a china spoon for soup.

I do have one instance of novelty value. It would have been in the 1980s and we went to a Chinese restaurant in Mildura. They had spoons on the table. We asked for chopsticks. Partway through our meal we realized we had the entire kitchen staff watching us through the little round window in the kitchen door. We had also been trained in ordering steamed rice, not fried rice (that is just something to use up leftovers!). And in taking some rice into your bowl and then some of the meat/veg dish on top and then eating.

they also, at times, lift bowls to their mouths which is not something westerners do… and sort of push food in…

They do this indeed.

Arts said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

They do sticky rice. And they use a china spoon for soup.

I do have one instance of novelty value. It would have been in the 1980s and we went to a Chinese restaurant in Mildura. They had spoons on the table. We asked for chopsticks. Partway through our meal we realized we had the entire kitchen staff watching us through the little round window in the kitchen door. We had also been trained in ordering steamed rice, not fried rice (that is just something to use up leftovers!). And in taking some rice into your bowl and then some of the meat/veg dish on top and then eating.

they also, at times, lift bowls to their mouths which is not something westerners do… and sort of push food in…

It’s a rich tapestry.

Arts said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

They do sticky rice. And they use a china spoon for soup.

I do have one instance of novelty value. It would have been in the 1980s and we went to a Chinese restaurant in Mildura. They had spoons on the table. We asked for chopsticks. Partway through our meal we realized we had the entire kitchen staff watching us through the little round window in the kitchen door. We had also been trained in ordering steamed rice, not fried rice (that is just something to use up leftovers!). And in taking some rice into your bowl and then some of the meat/veg dish on top and then eating.

they also, at times, lift bowls to their mouths which is not something westerners do… and sort of push food in…

that had crossed my mind too. i would have said shovel the food in. but then I am uncouth.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

buffy said:

They do sticky rice. And they use a china spoon for soup.

I do have one instance of novelty value. It would have been in the 1980s and we went to a Chinese restaurant in Mildura. They had spoons on the table. We asked for chopsticks. Partway through our meal we realized we had the entire kitchen staff watching us through the little round window in the kitchen door. We had also been trained in ordering steamed rice, not fried rice (that is just something to use up leftovers!). And in taking some rice into your bowl and then some of the meat/veg dish on top and then eating.

they also, at times, lift bowls to their mouths which is not something westerners do… and sort of push food in…

It’s a rich tapestry.

which doesn’t make a good tablecloth.

Arts said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

Surely ASIANS use them for rice and don’t consider it a challenge…

But soup, how do they drink soup with chopsticks…

They do sticky rice. And they use a china spoon for soup.

I do have one instance of novelty value. It would have been in the 1980s and we went to a Chinese restaurant in Mildura. They had spoons on the table. We asked for chopsticks. Partway through our meal we realized we had the entire kitchen staff watching us through the little round window in the kitchen door. We had also been trained in ordering steamed rice, not fried rice (that is just something to use up leftovers!). And in taking some rice into your bowl and then some of the meat/veg dish on top and then eating.

they also, at times, lift bowls to their mouths which is not something westerners do… and sort of push food in…

Yes, we learnt to do that too. It also used to get “looks”. We were friendly with Rose and helped her with some immigration and divorce matters about 25 years ago. She now has a couple of very successful restaurants in Anglesea on the Great Ocean Road. She taught us many of the Chinese ways of doing things and would sometimes cook us “home” meals, ie, what she was eating. We haven’t seen her for some years now. It might be time to catch up again.

https://www.rosechineserestaurant.com.au/about-us.html

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

they also, at times, lift bowls to their mouths which is not something westerners do… and sort of push food in…

It’s a rich tapestry.

which doesn’t make a good tablecloth.

The noodles get caught.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Depends on what I am eating. If at a Chinese restaurant, been using chopsticks since the 1970s when I learnt to use them.

I think this illustrates my point exactly.

I don’t. It’s not for novelty value, it’s because they are appropriate for that sort of food. Apparently I hold my chopsticks like a grandmother – according to some overseas students Mr buffy was mentoring at one stage. They came to our house and cooked us a meal. They were surprised we had a proper wok etc. Chopsticks are also brilliant for swirling noodles in the boiling water to break the “biscuit” apart. We also use them here at home for noodles and for some other Asian foods. Rice is a challenge unless you do sticky rice.

I think it fits the meaning of the word novelty as in being something different or unusual. You might use them in certain circumstances, but the circumstance is not a daily occurrence.

I fucking hate tablecloths.

Arts said:

I fucking hate tablecloths.

what about place mats?

Arts said:

I fucking hate tablecloths.

This we share. ;)

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

I fucking hate tablecloths.

what about place mats?

That’s what I use.

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

I fucking hate tablecloths.

what about place mats?

place mats are less hated

To wash after one meal, I expect we’d use 50 L.

My mum’s way was to use two basins: one to wash and one to rinse. Each would be 20 L so 40 L in total.

I would usually wash in a basin and rinse under a tap. Our tap has a volumetric flow of 18 L per minute. I haven’t measured but I suppose items would on average take 5 seconds to rinse (pots and plates more, spoons less, but 5 average). So for a dinner with a plate, bowl, glass, knife, spoon, fork each plus four cooking things we’re looking at 28 items, 140 seconds, 42 L.
So maybe 62 L altogether just for dinner. Probably combine breakfast and lunch in a single wash but it’s still going to run to 120 L per day, 840 L per week.

OTOH we don’t run the dishwasher until it is full, which would usually be after four meal times, like approximately twice in three days or five times a week, something of that order.

Our dishwasher uses 12 L for a full cycle, so 60 L per week.

Incomparable.

dv said:

To wash after one meal, I expect we’d use 50 L.

My mum’s way was to use two basins: one to wash and one to rinse. Each would be 20 L so 40 L in total.

I would usually wash in a basin and rinse under a tap. Our tap has a volumetric flow of 18 L per minute. I haven’t measured but I suppose items would on average take 5 seconds to rinse (pots and plates more, spoons less, but 5 average). So for a dinner with a plate, bowl, glass, knife, spoon, fork each plus four cooking things we’re looking at 28 items, 140 seconds, 42 L.
So maybe 62 L altogether just for dinner. Probably combine breakfast and lunch in a single wash but it’s still going to run to 120 L per day, 840 L per week.

OTOH we don’t run the dishwasher until it is full, which would usually be after four meal times, like approximately twice in three days or five times a week, something of that order.

Our dishwasher uses 12 L for a full cycle, so 60 L per week.

Incomparable.

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

buffy said:

dv said:

To wash after one meal, I expect we’d use 50 L.

My mum’s way was to use two basins: one to wash and one to rinse. Each would be 20 L so 40 L in total.

I would usually wash in a basin and rinse under a tap. Our tap has a volumetric flow of 18 L per minute. I haven’t measured but I suppose items would on average take 5 seconds to rinse (pots and plates more, spoons less, but 5 average). So for a dinner with a plate, bowl, glass, knife, spoon, fork each plus four cooking things we’re looking at 28 items, 140 seconds, 42 L.
So maybe 62 L altogether just for dinner. Probably combine breakfast and lunch in a single wash but it’s still going to run to 120 L per day, 840 L per week.

OTOH we don’t run the dishwasher until it is full, which would usually be after four meal times, like approximately twice in three days or five times a week, something of that order.

Our dishwasher uses 12 L for a full cycle, so 60 L per week.

Incomparable.

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

Well measure it now using your measuring jug and report back.

buffy said:

dv said:

To wash after one meal, I expect we’d use 50 L.

My mum’s way was to use two basins: one to wash and one to rinse. Each would be 20 L so 40 L in total.

I would usually wash in a basin and rinse under a tap. Our tap has a volumetric flow of 18 L per minute. I haven’t measured but I suppose items would on average take 5 seconds to rinse (pots and plates more, spoons less, but 5 average). So for a dinner with a plate, bowl, glass, knife, spoon, fork each plus four cooking things we’re looking at 28 items, 140 seconds, 42 L.
So maybe 62 L altogether just for dinner. Probably combine breakfast and lunch in a single wash but it’s still going to run to 120 L per day, 840 L per week.

OTOH we don’t run the dishwasher until it is full, which would usually be after four meal times, like approximately twice in three days or five times a week, something of that order.

Our dishwasher uses 12 L for a full cycle, so 60 L per week.

Incomparable.

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

No, i don’t that our kitchen sink could hold 20 litres, either.

captain_spalding said:

buffy said:

dv said:

To wash after one meal, I expect we’d use 50 L.

My mum’s way was to use two basins: one to wash and one to rinse. Each would be 20 L so 40 L in total.

I would usually wash in a basin and rinse under a tap. Our tap has a volumetric flow of 18 L per minute. I haven’t measured but I suppose items would on average take 5 seconds to rinse (pots and plates more, spoons less, but 5 average). So for a dinner with a plate, bowl, glass, knife, spoon, fork each plus four cooking things we’re looking at 28 items, 140 seconds, 42 L.
So maybe 62 L altogether just for dinner. Probably combine breakfast and lunch in a single wash but it’s still going to run to 120 L per day, 840 L per week.

OTOH we don’t run the dishwasher until it is full, which would usually be after four meal times, like approximately twice in three days or five times a week, something of that order.

Our dishwasher uses 12 L for a full cycle, so 60 L per week.

Incomparable.

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

No, i don’t that our kitchen sink could hold 20 litres, either.

I was curious enough to check. 9 litres fills my kitchen sink to lapping point, so higher than I would be using for washing up. Probably use about 8 litres for a washup.

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

buffy said:

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

No, i don’t that our kitchen sink could hold 20 litres, either.

I was curious enough to check. 9 litres fills my kitchen sink to lapping point, so higher than I would be using for washing up. Probably use about 8 litres for a washup.

Incomparable.

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

buffy said:

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

No, i don’t that our kitchen sink could hold 20 litres, either.

I was curious enough to check. 9 litres fills my kitchen sink to lapping point, so higher than I would be using for washing up. Probably use about 8 litres for a washup.

What’s this? Actual measurement and facts on the holiday forum?

My sink holds 13 litres.

Bubblecar said:

My sink holds 13 litres.

Is that brimming? Would you be able to actually wash in that much water?

Kingy said:

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

No, i don’t that our kitchen sink could hold 20 litres, either.

I was curious enough to check. 9 litres fills my kitchen sink to lapping point, so higher than I would be using for washing up. Probably use about 8 litres for a washup.

What’s this? Actual measurement and facts on the holiday forum?

Nah, ‘s anecdotal, innit?

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

My sink holds 13 litres.

Is that brimming? Would you be able to actually wash in that much water?

That’s max. I’d wash up in about 9-10 litres.

Kingy said:

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

No, i don’t that our kitchen sink could hold 20 litres, either.

I was curious enough to check. 9 litres fills my kitchen sink to lapping point, so higher than I would be using for washing up. Probably use about 8 litres for a washup.

What’s this? Actual measurement and facts on the holiday forum?

I know a bucket is 10 litres (if it’s an old one, they make them 9 litres now), and therefore I know 20 litres of water in a tub will be 20kg: and damned unwieldy to empty when you’ve finished washing. I also know what the standard plastic washing up basin looks like, and it isn’t 20 litres.

Neophyte said:

Kingy said:

buffy said:

I was curious enough to check. 9 litres fills my kitchen sink to lapping point, so higher than I would be using for washing up. Probably use about 8 litres for a washup.

What’s this? Actual measurement and facts on the holiday forum?

Nah, ‘s anecdotal, innit?

Well, there are now 2 anecdotes. We need everyone else to also measure their kitchen sink capacities so we can start producing “data”…

buffy said:

Kingy said:

buffy said:

I was curious enough to check. 9 litres fills my kitchen sink to lapping point, so higher than I would be using for washing up. Probably use about 8 litres for a washup.

What’s this? Actual measurement and facts on the holiday forum?

I know a bucket is 10 litres (if it’s an old one, they make them 9 litres now), and therefore I know 20 litres of water in a tub will be 20kg: and damned unwieldy to empty when you’ve finished washing. I also know what the standard plastic washing up basin looks like, and it isn’t 20 litres.

And why do I have such bucket knowledge? Because I have at time bucket watered my garden, with a ten litre bucket hanging off each arm. I know how heavy 20 litres of water is.

Being a single person household, I often don’t have much washing up anyway. None of the houses I’ve rented in recent years has had a dishwasher but I haven’t felt deprived.

Bubblecar said:

My sink holds 13 litres.

Have just measured our kitchen sink. One tub of the two equal-sized dual sinks is 33cm X 40 cm X 17 cm, or 22,440 cu cm.

I’m most surprised to find that this gives a max. capacity of 22.4 litres!

I believe that a typical wash up would use 8-9 litres.

captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

My sink holds 13 litres.

Have just measured our kitchen sink. One tub of the two equal-sized dual sinks is 33cm X 40 cm X 17 cm, or 22,440 cu cm.

I’m most surprised to find that this gives a max. capacity of 22.4 litres!

I believe that a typical wash up would use 8-9 litres.

Go on…get a bucket of water, put the plug in the sink, and prove it to yourself…

:)

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

My sink holds 13 litres.

Have just measured our kitchen sink. One tub of the two equal-sized dual sinks is 33cm X 40 cm X 17 cm, or 22,440 cu cm.

I’m most surprised to find that this gives a max. capacity of 22.4 litres!

I believe that a typical wash up would use 8-9 litres.

Go on…get a bucket of water, put the plug in the sink, and prove it to yourself…

:)

Waste of water.

buffy said:

buffy said:

Kingy said:

What’s this? Actual measurement and facts on the holiday forum?

I know a bucket is 10 litres (if it’s an old one, they make them 9 litres now), and therefore I know 20 litres of water in a tub will be 20kg: and damned unwieldy to empty when you’ve finished washing. I also know what the standard plastic washing up basin looks like, and it isn’t 20 litres.

And why do I have such bucket knowledge? Because I have at time bucket watered my garden, with a ten litre bucket hanging off each arm. I know how heavy 20 litres of water is.

I have a double sink of the 1 and 3/4 configuration. The 1 sink is extra large, possibly getting on to 20 litres, the 3/4 size is nearer to normal size, about 12L. I use both, one for washing and one for rinsing. But both are only about 2/3 full to limit the splashing.

captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

My sink holds 13 litres.

Have just measured our kitchen sink. One tub of the two equal-sized dual sinks is 33cm X 40 cm X 17 cm, or 22,440 cu cm.

I’m most surprised to find that this gives a max. capacity of 22.4 litres!

I believe that a typical wash up would use 8-9 litres.

330mmx400mmx140mm, take some off for the round corners = just under 14 litres.

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

My sink holds 13 litres.

Have just measured our kitchen sink. One tub of the two equal-sized dual sinks is 33cm X 40 cm X 17 cm, or 22,440 cu cm.

I’m most surprised to find that this gives a max. capacity of 22.4 litres!

I believe that a typical wash up would use 8-9 litres.

Go on…get a bucket of water, put the plug in the sink, and prove it to yourself…

:)

I mean let’s not waste water here.

The large sink is 3.9 × 3.3 × 1.6 dm. Which gives about 20.5 dm^3^. Given that it has rounded corners which I have not allowed for I m calling it 20 L.

The second sink is 3.0 × 2.9 × 1.5 dm. So about 13 L.

If I fill each one to 3/4 full thast gives me about 24.75 L per dishes event.

I don’t do dishes daily. I rinse and let things pile up for one or two days. I do the dishes about 4 times a week.

Arts said:

buffy said:

captain_spalding said:

Have just measured our kitchen sink. One tub of the two equal-sized dual sinks is 33cm X 40 cm X 17 cm, or 22,440 cu cm.

I’m most surprised to find that this gives a max. capacity of 22.4 litres!

I believe that a typical wash up would use 8-9 litres.

Go on…get a bucket of water, put the plug in the sink, and prove it to yourself…

:)

I mean let’s not waste water here.

Ah yes, I suppose not everyone’s greywater from the sink is watering their citrus trees, is it. I don’t mind a bit extra water going there, keeps me in lemons, limes and oranges. And when the tree gets a bit bigger, tangelos.

:)

Our sink is 32 × 42 cm. I washed up in 8 cm of water. (Breakfast and lunch.) That is about 10.75 litres.

buffy said:

Arts said:

buffy said:

Go on…get a bucket of water, put the plug in the sink, and prove it to yourself…

:)

I mean let’s not waste water here.

Ah yes, I suppose not everyone’s greywater from the sink is watering their citrus trees, is it. I don’t mind a bit extra water going there, keeps me in lemons, limes and oranges. And when the tree gets a bit bigger, tangelos.

:)

I only wish I could. Unfortunately the wastewater goes through the concrete slab.

Michael V said:

buffy said:

Arts said:

I mean let’s not waste water here.

Ah yes, I suppose not everyone’s greywater from the sink is watering their citrus trees, is it. I don’t mind a bit extra water going there, keeps me in lemons, limes and oranges. And when the tree gets a bit bigger, tangelos.

:)

I only wish I could. Unfortunately the wastewater goes through the concrete slab.

Put in a bifurcation with two valves in the sink cupboard.

Michael V said:

buffy said:

Arts said:

I mean let’s not waste water here.

Ah yes, I suppose not everyone’s greywater from the sink is watering their citrus trees, is it. I don’t mind a bit extra water going there, keeps me in lemons, limes and oranges. And when the tree gets a bit bigger, tangelos.

:)

I only wish I could. Unfortunately the wastewater goes through the concrete slab.

We are on septic tank for the toilet. But the greywater goes to a gravel pit…and guess where we chose to put the citrus trees?

:)

buffy said:

Michael V said:

buffy said:

Ah yes, I suppose not everyone’s greywater from the sink is watering their citrus trees, is it. I don’t mind a bit extra water going there, keeps me in lemons, limes and oranges. And when the tree gets a bit bigger, tangelos.

:)

I only wish I could. Unfortunately the wastewater goes through the concrete slab.

We are on septic tank for the toilet. But the greywater goes to a gravel pit…and guess where we chose to put the citrus trees?

:)

In the septic tank?

Peak Warming Man said:

Michael V said:

buffy said:

Ah yes, I suppose not everyone’s greywater from the sink is watering their citrus trees, is it. I don’t mind a bit extra water going there, keeps me in lemons, limes and oranges. And when the tree gets a bit bigger, tangelos.

:)

I only wish I could. Unfortunately the wastewater goes through the concrete slab.

Put in a bifurcation with two valves in the sink cupboard.

And bucket it out? The sink is on an island bench. It’s outlet is 2.7 m from the lining of the nearest outside wall.

Peak Warming Man said:

buffy said:

Michael V said:

I only wish I could. Unfortunately the wastewater goes through the concrete slab.

We are on septic tank for the toilet. But the greywater goes to a gravel pit…and guess where we chose to put the citrus trees?

:)

In the septic tank?

At our previous house the septic outfall went into the paddock. The lemon tree was planted on the end of the outfall. Actually, the one here on the greywater does better. I don’t know exactly where our septic outfall goes here, but one of my rose beds seems to be remarkably healthy without me doing any feeding of the soil.

buffy said:

Neophyte said:

Kingy said:

What’s this? Actual measurement and facts on the holiday forum?

Nah, ‘s anecdotal, innit?

Well, there are now 2 anecdotes. We need everyone else to also measure their kitchen sink capacities so we can start producing “data”…

New house. Two sinks side by side in the island bench, each 28 litres. Main sink – 40 litres.

sibeen said:

buffy said:

Neophyte said:

Nah, ‘s anecdotal, innit?

Well, there are now 2 anecdotes. We need everyone else to also measure their kitchen sink capacities so we can start producing “data”…

New house. Two sinks side by side in the island bench, each 28 litres. Main sink – 40 litres.

they should keep the little lady happy. you’re a good husband sibeen.

sibeen said:

buffy said:

Neophyte said:

Nah, ‘s anecdotal, innit?

Well, there are now 2 anecdotes. We need everyone else to also measure their kitchen sink capacities so we can start producing “data”…

New house. Two sinks side by side in the island bench, each 28 litres. Main sink – 40 litres.

Blimey, you must have huge dishes!

buffy said:

dv said:

To wash after one meal, I expect we’d use 50 L.

My mum’s way was to use two basins: one to wash and one to rinse. Each would be 20 L so 40 L in total.

I would usually wash in a basin and rinse under a tap. Our tap has a volumetric flow of 18 L per minute. I haven’t measured but I suppose items would on average take 5 seconds to rinse (pots and plates more, spoons less, but 5 average). So for a dinner with a plate, bowl, glass, knife, spoon, fork each plus four cooking things we’re looking at 28 items, 140 seconds, 42 L.
So maybe 62 L altogether just for dinner. Probably combine breakfast and lunch in a single wash but it’s still going to run to 120 L per day, 840 L per week.

OTOH we don’t run the dishwasher until it is full, which would usually be after four meal times, like approximately twice in three days or five times a week, something of that order.

Our dishwasher uses 12 L for a full cycle, so 60 L per week.

Incomparable.

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

I mean I think that’s kind of normal. It’s not one of the bigger sinks going.

dv said:

buffy said:

dv said:

To wash after one meal, I expect we’d use 50 L.

My mum’s way was to use two basins: one to wash and one to rinse. Each would be 20 L so 40 L in total.

I would usually wash in a basin and rinse under a tap. Our tap has a volumetric flow of 18 L per minute. I haven’t measured but I suppose items would on average take 5 seconds to rinse (pots and plates more, spoons less, but 5 average). So for a dinner with a plate, bowl, glass, knife, spoon, fork each plus four cooking things we’re looking at 28 items, 140 seconds, 42 L.
So maybe 62 L altogether just for dinner. Probably combine breakfast and lunch in a single wash but it’s still going to run to 120 L per day, 840 L per week.

OTOH we don’t run the dishwasher until it is full, which would usually be after four meal times, like approximately twice in three days or five times a week, something of that order.

Our dishwasher uses 12 L for a full cycle, so 60 L per week.

Incomparable.

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

I mean I think that’s kind of normal. It’s not one of the bigger sinks going.

I must have always had a small sink then. I don’t think I’ve ever had one that held much more than a bucket of water (10 litres). We’ve owned two houses and rented a unit and a house in the time we’ve been married. Never had a double sink. 20 litres sounds to me like a laundry tub.

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

I mean I think that’s kind of normal. It’s not one of the bigger sinks going.

I must have always had a small sink then. I don’t think I’ve ever had one that held much more than a bucket of water (10 litres). We’ve owned two houses and rented a unit and a house in the time we’ve been married. Never had a double sink. 20 litres sounds to me like a laundry tub.

Now I have a concept of a 40 litre sink…it’s a laundry tub.

https://tradelink.com.au/42l-standard-utility-laundry-tub-cabinet-with-overflow-140582/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9LTmifDX8QIVRyQrCh0s4gheEAQYAiABEgLqsPD_BwE

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

20 litres is two buckets. That’s quite a big basin. I don’t think my kitchen sink is that big.

I mean I think that’s kind of normal. It’s not one of the bigger sinks going.

I must have always had a small sink then. I don’t think I’ve ever had one that held much more than a bucket of water (10 litres). We’ve owned two houses and rented a unit and a house in the time we’ve been married. Never had a double sink. 20 litres sounds to me like a laundry tub.

Laundry tubs range from 45 to 70 L.

Now that I’ve caught up on the thread I see sibeen is rocking a 40 L jobby in his kitchen, twice mine, I feel like a peasant

dv said:

buffy said:

dv said:

I mean I think that’s kind of normal. It’s not one of the bigger sinks going.

I must have always had a small sink then. I don’t think I’ve ever had one that held much more than a bucket of water (10 litres). We’ve owned two houses and rented a unit and a house in the time we’ve been married. Never had a double sink. 20 litres sounds to me like a laundry tub.

Laundry tubs range from 45 to 70 L.

Now that I’ve caught up on the thread I see sibeen is rocking a 40 L jobby in his kitchen, twice mine, I feel like a peasant

It’s OK. If he wants to have a bath in his kitchen, that is his lookout. You can have your bath in the bathroom.

just talking to the lady, she uses ~4L per day, probably less, one wash day’s end is all, just the two of us

IWDV. There’s no comparison – Dishwashers are waaayyy more water, energy, and time efficient under most circumstances.

write well since we’re SCIENCE and dv is trying to put us to shame we’ll actually do a trial at opportunity and if we remember we’ll get results back to you all

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

captain_spalding said:

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

Ridiculous, our dishwasher uses ~11L per cycle..

poikilotherm said:

captain_spalding said:

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

Ridiculous, our dishwasher uses ~11L per cycle..

You’ve obviously got one of the better ones. Is it not possible there are ‘worse’?

so since we’re counting it might have affected the level of conservatism (the Greens kind not the Corruptions Liberals kind) with which we used our resources

probably equivalent of one of dv’s quarter-loads took 0.018 m^3 of H2O(l) so it’s not going to outdo the 12 L load but it’s only going to be a disaster in a 5 year drought

of course if Australia ever gets Massive Renewable going and we get to make haytch while the sun shines then there’ll be no drought problem either

captain_spalding said:

poikilotherm said:

captain_spalding said:

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

Ridiculous, our dishwasher uses ~11L per cycle..

You’ve obviously got one of the better ones. Is it not possible there are ‘worse’?

There are, but only marginally.

https://wels.agriculture.gov.au/wels-public/action/search-product-load?search=true&sort=waterConsLbl&dir=desc

captain_spalding said:

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

We run our dishwasher when it’s full, which is once every 4-6 days. It was probably once every 3-4 days when the RuleKids were still at home. On best estimate, it’s using one tenth of the water and energy of hand washing, a fraction of the labour, and no benchtop real estate. Any food is ground up before it enters the plumbing, and there’s no accessories (gloves, brushes, sponges, scourers, drying racks etc) required. The life of the unit is long, it’s repairable, and it’s almost entirely recyclable.

Rule 303 said:

captain_spalding said:

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

We run our dishwasher when it’s full, which is once every 4-6 days. It was probably once every 3-4 days when the RuleKids were still at home. On best estimate, it’s using one tenth of the water and energy of hand washing, a fraction of the labour, and no benchtop real estate. Any food is ground up before it enters the plumbing, and there’s no accessories (gloves, brushes, sponges, scourers, drying racks etc) required. The life of the unit is long, it’s repairable, and it’s almost entirely recyclable.

Similar, except mine can take up to 2 weeks to ‘fill’…it gets a rinse in between to keep the funk at bay.

poikilotherm said:

captain_spalding said:

poikilotherm said:

Ridiculous, our dishwasher uses ~11L per cycle..

You’ve obviously got one of the better ones. Is it not possible there are ‘worse’?

There are, but only marginally.

https://wels.agriculture.gov.au/wels-public/action/search-product-load?search=true&sort=waterConsLbl&dir=desc

I’m now persuaded that, on the basis of running a dishwasher once a day with 3-4 meals’ worth of stuff in it, it could well be an economical proposition in more ways than one.

However, our kitchen has neither space or plumbing for such a technological convenience, so i am condemned to being a Luddite.

poikilotherm said:

Rule 303 said:

captain_spalding said:

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

We run our dishwasher when it’s full, which is once every 4-6 days. It was probably once every 3-4 days when the RuleKids were still at home. On best estimate, it’s using one tenth of the water and energy of hand washing, a fraction of the labour, and no benchtop real estate. Any food is ground up before it enters the plumbing, and there’s no accessories (gloves, brushes, sponges, scourers, drying racks etc) required. The life of the unit is long, it’s repairable, and it’s almost entirely recyclable.

Similar, except mine can take up to 2 weeks to ‘fill’…it gets a rinse in between to keep the funk at bay.

Obviously you need to spend a lot more on dishes and cups etc.

yeah top 3 search results smacks us with

• 13.5 Litres per wash
• 13.4 Ltr/Cycle
• 10.7L Per Wash

so must have come a way since the 1990s

if we look at 15 years and not 30 years then looks like they’ve gotten water consumption down about 1/3 over that time

captain_spalding said:

poikilotherm said:

captain_spalding said:

You’ve obviously got one of the better ones. Is it not possible there are ‘worse’?

There are, but only marginally.

https://wels.agriculture.gov.au/wels-public/action/search-product-load?search=true&sort=waterConsLbl&dir=desc

I’m now persuaded that, on the basis of running a dishwasher once a day with 3-4 meals’ worth of stuff in it, it could well be an economical proposition in more ways than one.

However, our kitchen has neither space or plumbing for such a technological convenience, so i am condemned to being a Luddite.

Comiserations, you poor bastard.

poikilotherm said:

captain_spalding said:

poikilotherm said:

There are, but only marginally.

https://wels.agriculture.gov.au/wels-public/action/search-product-load?search=true&sort=waterConsLbl&dir=desc

I’m now persuaded that, on the basis of running a dishwasher once a day with 3-4 meals’ worth of stuff in it, it could well be an economical proposition in more ways than one.

However, our kitchen has neither space or plumbing for such a technological convenience, so i am condemned to being a Luddite.

Comiserations, you poor bastard.

We all have our crosses to bear.

captain_spalding said:

poikilotherm said:

Rule 303 said:

We run our dishwasher when it’s full, which is once every 4-6 days. It was probably once every 3-4 days when the RuleKids were still at home. On best estimate, it’s using one tenth of the water and energy of hand washing, a fraction of the labour, and no benchtop real estate. Any food is ground up before it enters the plumbing, and there’s no accessories (gloves, brushes, sponges, scourers, drying racks etc) required. The life of the unit is long, it’s repairable, and it’s almost entirely recyclable.

Similar, except mine can take up to 2 weeks to ‘fill’…it gets a rinse in between to keep the funk at bay.

Obviously you need to spend a lot more on dishes and cups etc.

Where ‘A lot more’ is one purchase every ten years that costs sixty bucks.

Obviously, I could mount a pretty good argument that the onerous task of dishwashing by hand is a major contributing factor in the decision to eat out or order fast food, leading to a broad range of very well know health, social, and financial problems.

Rule 303 said:

Where ‘A lot more’ is one purchase every ten years that costs sixty bucks.

No, it’s not a lot when you look at it like that.

On the other hand, if we could install a dishwasher, we’d immediately have to spend $60 – $180 on new crockery and cutlery, but it would be a once-off.

captain_spalding said:

I just did a small by-hand wash up for a light meal for two.

Couple of plates, couple of bread and butter plates, two tea mugs, cutlery, an oven tray.

Required 5 litres, more than enough.

So, we’d possibly use 15 – 17 litres a day. Not that much worse than some dishwashers, maybe better than some.

Right but going by your description, you’d need to run the dishwasher about once a week.

I spent most of my life without a dishwasher machiney thingo.

Then I rented a house that had one. It was good. I chucked my dirty dishes in it when I went to work, and when I got home from work, they were clean.

Now that I have to pay for for power and water, I only use it when I have too many dishes to wash by hand.

Most of the time I only use a few dishes and wash them as required. Sometimes I have visitors and a grand cookup, and a few drinks, aaaand, I can’t be arsed washing the mountain of dishes.

I just chuck them all into the electric washer thingy.

It works ok. It’ll do.

You can boil individual items in the jug, and jugs are cheap as chips.
Well you can’t put cutlery in there of course, you’d be stupid to do that.

captain_spalding said:

Back here for a question i just thought of.

TV ads for dishwashers claim that they use a lot less water than ‘hand’ washing.

…

Last night’s dinner wash-up: dunno, but had to be not more than 11 – 12 litres. And i’m a fussy washer-up – it has to be clean.

…

So, even the most generous assessment says ‘no better than handwashing, and the ‘average’ is many times worse.

I say ‘bullshit’ to dishwashers.

What say you?

Agree. I use 6 liters per person per day on the sum total of handwashing of crockery, cutlery and recycling. Plus an extra 2 liters of cold water (before the hot water reaches the sink) that I save for refilling the bird bath and kettle.

I did a Good Scientist Cartoon about this. No, apparently I didn’t, because I’ve never used or had a dishwasher in my life.

Here are some other product ratings that are BS.

I haven’t got a dishwasher (other than myself), but several friends have. All of them pre-wash the dishes under running water as they pack the dishwasher, leaving me wondering what the point of having a dw actually is. When I’ve asked they’ve told me that if they don’t, the dishes come out less clean than if they do. It also makes a mockery of the claim that the dishwasher uses less water than washing by conventional methods.

humans can do it with less water because they can inspect the item that needs washing, and the washing of each item as it progresses, also some assumptions are made based on previous items washed, so you can put the water and cleaning action just where it’s required, the minimum requires to do the job to whatever standard you’re happy with

btm said:

I haven’t got a dishwasher (other than myself), but several friends have. All of them pre-wash the dishes under running water as they pack the dishwasher, leaving me wondering what the point of having a dw actually is. When I’ve asked they’ve told me that if they don’t, the dishes come out less clean than if they do. It also makes a mockery of the claim that the dishwasher uses less water than washing by conventional methods.

Do you apply the same thinking to everything else that humans do?

Rule 303 said:

btm said:

I haven’t got a dishwasher (other than myself), but several friends have. All of them pre-wash the dishes under running water as they pack the dishwasher, leaving me wondering what the point of having a dw actually is. When I’ve asked they’ve told me that if they don’t, the dishes come out less clean than if they do. It also makes a mockery of the claim that the dishwasher uses less water than washing by conventional methods.

Do you apply the same thinking to everything else that humans do?

Why not?

mollwollfumble said:

Rule 303 said:

btm said:

I haven’t got a dishwasher (other than myself), but several friends have. All of them pre-wash the dishes under running water as they pack the dishwasher, leaving me wondering what the point of having a dw actually is. When I’ve asked they’ve told me that if they don’t, the dishes come out less clean than if they do. It also makes a mockery of the claim that the dishwasher uses less water than washing by conventional methods.

Do you apply the same thinking to everything else that humans do?

Why not?

LOL. Jesus. Did the Captain get the title for this thread right or what?

mollwollfumble said:

captain_spalding said:

Back here for a question i just thought of.

TV ads for dishwashers claim that they use a lot less water than ‘hand’ washing.

…

Last night’s dinner wash-up: dunno, but had to be not more than 11 – 12 litres. And i’m a fussy washer-up – it has to be clean.

…

So, even the most generous assessment says ‘no better than handwashing, and the ‘average’ is many times worse.

I say ‘bullshit’ to dishwashers.

What say you?

Agree. I use 6 liters per person per day on the sum total of handwashing of crockery, cutlery and recycling. Plus an extra 2 liters of cold water (before the hot water reaches the sink) that I save for refilling the bird bath and kettle.

I did a Good Scientist Cartoon about this. No, apparently I didn’t, because I’ve never used or had a dishwasher in my life.

Here are some other product ratings that are BS.

647 *****
648 ** :)

Rule 303 said:

mollwollfumble said:

Rule 303 said:

Do you apply the same thinking to everything else that humans do?

Why not?

LOL. Jesus. Did the Captain get the title for this thread right or what?

Wary as I am of agreeing with both moll and btm at the same time, I think it is a fair point, and I say that as a regular dishwasher user.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Rule 303 said:

mollwollfumble said:

Why not?

LOL. Jesus. Did the Captain get the title for this thread right or what?

Wary as I am of agreeing with both moll and btm at the same time, I think it is a fair point, and I say that as a regular dishwasher user.

but what was their point

We don’t have a dishwasher, and can’t (space and plumbing reasons).

Never had one in any place i’ve lived in.

I have been somewhat persuaded by arguments here that it’s conceivable that they can be economical in more ways than one.

However, it occured to me, too, this morning, that there’s the question of ‘pre-rinsing’.

I don’t imagine that plates and pots can be simply slung into the dishwasher with all of the post-meal debris still attached to them. Not a pleasant thought to have them festering away in there, awaiting the completion of a load to make it worth running the machine.

And i recall the TV ad by a dishwashing detergent manufacturer that declares that ‘pre-rinsing can waste up to 40 litres of water,.

So, could the economies of dishwashers be somewhat negated by the water that’s not used by the machine itself, but which is used in readying things for the machine?

So, are the economies of the dishwasher

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Rule 303 said:

LOL. Jesus. Did the Captain get the title for this thread right or what?

Wary as I am of agreeing with both moll and btm at the same time, I think it is a fair point, and I say that as a regular dishwasher user.

but what was their point

That if you rinse all the stuff before putting it in the washer then water use is significantly increased, and labour saving is significantly decreased, but for some strange reason the manufacturer’s data just ignores that.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Wary as I am of agreeing with both moll and btm at the same time, I think it is a fair point, and I say that as a regular dishwasher user.

but what was their point

That if you rinse all the stuff before putting it in the washer then water use is significantly increased, and labour saving is significantly decreased, but for some strange reason the manufacturer’s data just ignores that.

Not only ingnore the fact but tell the customer to rinse everything because the machine isn’t as good as you at washing dishes and people still buy the machines without seeing what is plain before their face.

jftr the estimate we gave did not include massive rinsing but we thought a reasonable valid experiment would control out the common pathways id est the massive pre rinse

I’ve never rinsed a dish prior to putting it in the dish washer, my dishwasher neither fails me nor smells… and the dishes are always clean.. we do use it once a day after the main meal (dinner) and put it on straight after that meal, so I suppose things don’t get a chance to stick.

Arts said:

I’ve never rinsed a dish prior to putting it in the dish washer, my dishwasher neither fails me nor smells… and the dishes are always clean.. we do use it once a day after the main meal (dinner) and put it on straight after that meal, so I suppose things don’t get a chance to stick.

Rinsing is good.
I rinse (100 g is more than enough for everything, once per day) but never soak.
mrs m soaks but never rinses.

But then, mrs m boils her saucepans dry.