OK trendsetters,here’s the situation:

I am making an outdoor tabletop, as you might recall. I intend to varnish it with marine grade exterior varnish. My Dad was asking if I was going to varnish both top and bottom, I said yes of course. Then he said not to varnish the underside because if there are any tiny nicks or scratches on the top surface then water will get in and will become trapped, leading to swelling and warping etc. He reckons leave the underside unvarnished so that moisture can escape.

Sounds good in theory, but will an unvarnished underside not also absorb moisture under certain conditions?

The underside is 18 mm plywood recycled from an old packing case. Not marine grade or waterproof. This is why I was going to varnish it.

So what says the forum – varnish the underside or leave it unvarnished?

Your father’s advice sounds reasonable but it depends a lot on the actual timber.

https://narangbatimbers.com.au/everything-need-know-moisture-timber/

party_pants said:

OK trendsetters,here’s the situation:

I am making an outdoor tabletop, as you might recall. I intend to varnish it with marine grade exterior varnish. My Dad was asking if I was going to varnish both top and bottom, I said yes of course. Then he said not to varnish the underside because if there are any tiny nicks or scratches on the top surface then water will get in and will become trapped, leading to swelling and warping etc. He reckons leave the underside unvarnished so that moisture can escape.

Sounds good in theory, but will an unvarnished underside not also absorb moisture under certain conditions?

The underside is 18 mm plywood recycled from an old packing case. Not marine grade or waterproof. This is why I was going to varnish it.

So what says the forum – varnish the underside or leave it unvarnished?

Do not, under any circumstances, use Cabot’s marine varnish. !!

I did, on the tabletop I made for the back yard.

7 coats later and it was still nowhere near properly covering the timber.
Despite the “marine varnish” label, it started peeling off immediatly the moment it got wet.
Two years later and it’s still peeling off, each remaining patch peeling off about a cm around the edge every single rain shower.

I’ve now sanded it back half a dozen times and scraped it off at least a dozen times, and there are still annoying small patches of varnish clinging on to the table top and the bench seats. Short of hiring a belt sander and spending at least 4 hours sanding every little bit of it off, there’s nothing I can do.

Try any other coating you like, perhaps decking oil. But not “marine varnish”.
You have been warned.

party_pants said:

OK trendsetters,here’s the situation:

I am making an outdoor tabletop, as you might recall. I intend to varnish it with marine grade exterior varnish. My Dad was asking if I was going to varnish both top and bottom, I said yes of course. Then he said not to varnish the underside because if there are any tiny nicks or scratches on the top surface then water will get in and will become trapped, leading to swelling and warping etc. He reckons leave the underside unvarnished so that moisture can escape.

Sounds good in theory, but will an unvarnished underside not also absorb moisture under certain conditions?

The underside is 18 mm plywood recycled from an old packing case. Not marine grade or waterproof. This is why I was going to varnish it.

So what says the forum – varnish the underside or leave it unvarnished?

Highly unlikely water will make it all the way through.

Monocel make good marine varnishes.

https://www.bondall.com/monocel-home/monocel-gold-exterior-clear/

Available at the big green shed.

Varnish is all very nice on exterior timber, but no matter what varnish you use, it’s going to weather, and it’s going to need regular maintenance. A good sanding and recoating at least once a year, possbily twice, maybe three times if you want it stay ‘perfect’.

personally i would go with a decking oil like sikkens. easy to recoat.

I’m always surprised that some people choose to use varnished timber on the exterior of their houses.

Looks lovely for about six months, and then it begins to deteriorate. After 12-18 months, it looks like timber on an old fence, all weathered an grey.

“Oh”, they say,“but that’s the look that we wanted’.

OK.

So, why did you varnish it first up?

Boris said:

personally i would go with a decking oil like sikkens. easy to recoat.

Sensible.

Michael V said:

Boris said:

personally i would go with a decking oil like sikkens. easy to recoat.

Sensible.

Concur.

Especially for a ‘flat’ exterior surface like a table top.

Boris said:

personally i would go with a decking oil like sikkens. easy to recoat.

All options will be considered. I have not bought anything yet. I am still doing my “research”.

captain_spalding said:

I’m always surprised that some people choose to use varnished timber on the exterior of their houses.

Looks lovely for about six months, and then it begins to deteriorate. After 12-18 months, it looks like timber on an old fence, all weathered an grey.

“Oh”, they say,“but that’s the look that we wanted’.

OK.

So, why did you varnish it first up?

Interestingly, there’s a varnished house in Armidale, built mid-1960’s When I moved there in 1979, it had not been re-coated. I think it was re-coated in the 1990s. At one stage, I had the varnish recipe (from the original painter).

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

I’m always surprised that some people choose to use varnished timber on the exterior of their houses.

Looks lovely for about six months, and then it begins to deteriorate. After 12-18 months, it looks like timber on an old fence, all weathered an grey.

“Oh”, they say, “but that’s the look that we wanted”.

OK.

So, why did you varnish it first up?

Interestingly, there’s a varnished house in Armidale, built mid-1960’s When I moved there in 1979, it had not been re-coated. I think it was re-coated in the 1990s. At one stage, I had the varnish recipe (from the original painter).

fixed

Michael V said:

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

I’m always surprised that some people choose to use varnished timber on the exterior of their houses.

Looks lovely for about six months, and then it begins to deteriorate. After 12-18 months, it looks like timber on an old fence, all weathered an grey.

“Oh”, they say, “but that’s the look that we wanted”.

OK.

So, why did you varnish it first up?

Interestingly, there’s a varnished house in Armidale, built mid-1960’s When I moved there in 1979, it had not been re-coated. I think it was re-coated in the 1990s. At one stage, I had the varnish recipe (from the original painter).

fixed

Thanks.

Have a look here:

https://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/tmshannon_2007/Skiff%20Project/Varnish%20Recipe.png

Would French polishing work in this case? It uses layers of shellac, but I don’t know how weatherproof it is.

btm said:

Would French polishing work in this case? It uses layers of shellac, but I don’t know how weatherproof it is.

Shellac is not waterproof and not generally weatherproof.

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

I’m always surprised that some people choose to use varnished timber on the exterior of their houses.

Looks lovely for about six months, and then it begins to deteriorate. After 12-18 months, it looks like timber on an old fence, all weathered an grey.
—————————

Interestingly, there’s a varnished house in Armidale, built mid-1960’s When I moved there in 1979, it had not been re-coated. I think it was re-coated in the 1990s. At one stage, I had the varnish recipe (from the original painter).

My parent’s house in Box Hill North built in the mid 1950s was varnished vertical pineboard. It was sanded and revarnished a few times, but definitely not annually. I don’t remember it greying off. The varnish would start to lift and when it was quite peely Dad would redo it, or later they got a painter to redo it. I don’t know what they used, I thought it was marine varnish. I’m not sure I’ve got a picture though.

Here it is in the early 1960s, which would have been about 6 years after it was built. I’m the one drinking from the hose. Karen must have been already sick by then, as I am walking, but it must have been before her legs went on her.

And some years later. That is Pop (my dad’s dad) and my sister who is three years younger than me. So dating that, B was born in 1962 and she looks around 3ish in that photo, so that must be mid 60s. I don’t think (but I don’t know for sure) that the boards had been revarnished. This would be 10 years since the house was built. They still look pretty good. That is a reasonably sheltered wall.

buffy said:

Here it is in the early 1960s, which would have been about 6 years after it was built. I’m the one drinking from the hose. Karen must have been already sick by then, as I am walking, but it must have been before her legs went on her.

And some years later. That is Pop (my dad’s dad) and my sister who is three years younger than me. So dating that, B was born in 1962 and she looks around 3ish in that photo, so that must be mid 60s. I don’t think (but I don’t know for sure) that the boards had been revarnished. This would be 10 years since the house was built. They still look pretty good. That is a reasonably sheltered wall.

I’m a pop now. Don’t know nothing about varnish be it the indoor or outdoor kind. But yeah pop’s rock!!!!

Trevtaowillgetyounowhere said:

buffy said:

Here it is in the early 1960s, which would have been about 6 years after it was built. I’m the one drinking from the hose. Karen must have been already sick by then, as I am walking, but it must have been before her legs went on her.

And some years later. That is Pop (my dad’s dad) and my sister who is three years younger than me. So dating that, B was born in 1962 and she looks around 3ish in that photo, so that must be mid 60s. I don’t think (but I don’t know for sure) that the boards had been revarnished. This would be 10 years since the house was built. They still look pretty good. That is a reasonably sheltered wall.

I’m a pop now. Don’t know nothing about varnish be it the indoor or outdoor kind. But yeah pop’s rock!!!!

This Pop was a proper signwriter. He could do goldleafing and everything.

buffy said:

Trevtaowillgetyounowhere said:

buffy said:

Here it is in the early 1960s, which would have been about 6 years after it was built. I’m the one drinking from the hose. Karen must have been already sick by then, as I am walking, but it must have been before her legs went on her.

And some years later. That is Pop (my dad’s dad) and my sister who is three years younger than me. So dating that, B was born in 1962 and she looks around 3ish in that photo, so that must be mid 60s. I don’t think (but I don’t know for sure) that the boards had been revarnished. This would be 10 years since the house was built. They still look pretty good. That is a reasonably sheltered wall.

I’m a pop now. Don’t know nothing about varnish be it the indoor or outdoor kind. But yeah pop’s rock!!!!

This Pop was a proper signwriter. He could do goldleafing and everything.

As I said pop’s rock.

We had a vanity top custom made in 2017 for our ensuite. The person who made it specialises in timber vanity tops and furniture built into boats. It is made from recycled red ironbark sleepers and is completely sealed with resin on top. Underneath is unsealed. This vanity sees a lot of use with water often being left in puddles for prolonged periods, and while this photo was taken a couple of years ago, it still looks the same.
.

Speedy said:

We had a vanity top custom made in 2017 for our ensuite. The person who made it specialises in timber vanity tops and furniture built into boats. It is made from recycled red ironbark sleepers and is completely sealed with resin on top. Underneath is unsealed. This vanity sees a lot of use with water often being left in puddles for prolonged periods, and while this photo was taken a couple of years ago, it still looks the same.
.

I dislike bowl sinks…

…but that vanity counter is snazzy.

Speedy said:

We had a vanity top custom made in 2017 for our ensuite. The person who made it specialises in timber vanity tops and furniture built into boats. It is made from recycled red ironbark sleepers and is completely sealed with resin on top. Underneath is unsealed. This vanity sees a lot of use with water often being left in puddles for prolonged periods, and while this photo was taken a couple of years ago, it still looks the same.
.

Classy.

captain_spalding said:

Speedy said:

We had a vanity top custom made in 2017 for our ensuite. The person who made it specialises in timber vanity tops and furniture built into boats. It is made from recycled red ironbark sleepers and is completely sealed with resin on top. Underneath is unsealed. This vanity sees a lot of use with water often being left in puddles for prolonged periods, and while this photo was taken a couple of years ago, it still looks the same.
.

I dislike bowl sinks…

…but that vanity counter is snazzy.

I too think that counter looks fuckin sick as fuck

captain_spalding said:

Speedy said:

We had a vanity top custom made in 2017 for our ensuite. The person who made it specialises in timber vanity tops and furniture built into boats. It is made from recycled red ironbark sleepers and is completely sealed with resin on top. Underneath is unsealed. This vanity sees a lot of use with water often being left in puddles for prolonged periods, and while this photo was taken a couple of years ago, it still looks the same.
.

I dislike bowl sinks…

…but that vanity counter is snazzy.

Where were you 5 years ago?

I’d never owned one before, hence the puddles of water on the vanity top, always around where the soap pump sits.

Speedy said:

captain_spalding said:

Speedy said:

We had a vanity top custom made in 2017 for our ensuite. The person who made it specialises in timber vanity tops and furniture built into boats. It is made from recycled red ironbark sleepers and is completely sealed with resin on top. Underneath is unsealed. This vanity sees a lot of use with water often being left in puddles for prolonged periods, and while this photo was taken a couple of years ago, it still looks the same.
.

I dislike bowl sinks…

…but that vanity counter is snazzy.

Where were you 5 years ago?

I’d never owned one before, hence the puddles of water on the vanity top, always around where the soap pump sits.

Put a pretty china dish under the soap pump.

buffy said:

Speedy said:

captain_spalding said:

I dislike bowl sinks…

…but that vanity counter is snazzy.

Where were you 5 years ago?

I’d never owned one before, hence the puddles of water on the vanity top, always around where the soap pump sits.

Put a pretty china dish under the soap pump.

We do have one, but it doesn’t help much.

party_pants said:

OK trendsetters,here’s the situation:

I am making an outdoor tabletop, as you might recall. I intend to varnish it with marine grade exterior varnish. My Dad was asking if I was going to varnish both top and bottom, I said yes of course. Then he said not to varnish the underside because if there are any tiny nicks or scratches on the top surface then water will get in and will become trapped, leading to swelling and warping etc. He reckons leave the underside unvarnished so that moisture can escape.

Sounds good in theory, but will an unvarnished underside not also absorb moisture under certain conditions?

The underside is 18 mm plywood recycled from an old packing case. Not marine grade or waterproof. This is why I was going to varnish it.

So what says the forum – varnish the underside or leave it unvarnished?

Your biggest drama is not what you do to the top , its the fact that eventually your underside will deteriorate .
What type of timber is the top ?
Is it completely outside or under cover ?
Finish top to what is appropiate to type of timber used. Penetrating oils are not a big deal to prepare and recoat so maintenance will happen , varnish recoating is a lot dearer and a lot bigger deal so … tends not to happen . Your service interval is more important than meduim used … usually .
Then again varnish and stain are two completely different looks.
The bottom ? , if its not seen , paint it , exterior paint , decent brand.

Brett

I forgot to mention .
Varnish looks good till it cracks if the top moves . It will move if its unseasoned , too thin , wrong timber .

Thomo?

Long time, no see.

Hi
I lurk alot , don’t post much …
Hope your well Captain
Brett

dv might like this, or have already posted about it

SCIENCE said:

dv might like this, or have already posted about it

I like it.

I would like to design a Romanesque village.

The Terracotta Warriors were also interred painted in bright colours.

This is one panel about 80% complete…

party_pants said:

This is one panel about 80% complete…

I say…

party_pants said:

This is one panel about 80% complete…

Nice!

What’s it going to be when finished?

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

This is one panel about 80% complete…

Nice!

What’s it going to be when finished?

A table top.

There will be a second panel to go alongside it. This will have one large 7-pointed star in the centre.

party_pants said:

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

This is one panel about 80% complete…

Nice!

What’s it going to be when finished?

A table top.

There will be a second panel to go alongside it. This will have one large 7-pointed star in the centre.

:)