Date: 24/09/2021 11:30:15
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794537
Subject: Murray–Darling Basin

Some ideas.

1 Water harvesting from air, depending on viability.

These could then be scaled up, following areas that have the most moist air at night

2 Solar powered air pumps for rivers, creeks and lakes with low oxygen content.

These would have a solar panel, a battery, a small number of sensors to detect water quality with a nitrogen sensor, a phosphorus sensor and oxygen sensor etc radio communication for when nitrogen and phosphorus levels become dangerous.

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:16:07
From: dv
ID: 1794555
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


Some ideas.

1 Water harvesting from air, depending on viability.

These could then be scaled up, following areas that have the most moist air at night

2 Solar powered air pumps for rivers, creeks and lakes with low oxygen content.

These would have a solar panel, a battery, a small number of sensors to detect water quality with a nitrogen sensor, a phosphorus sensor and oxygen sensor etc radio communication for when nitrogen and phosphorus levels become dangerous.

I think you should start by being specific about what you are trying to achieve.

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:20:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1794557
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


Some ideas.

1 Water harvesting from air, depending on viability.

Welcome back, Zarkov.

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:23:14
From: Cymek
ID: 1794560
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Some ideas.

1 Water harvesting from air, depending on viability.

Welcome back, Zarkov.

It should work with moist air, not enough to rain but enough to be collected with say something like large plastic sheets under tension in a funnel type shape

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:25:35
From: dv
ID: 1794562
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

If what you’re trying to do is replenish the MD locally then may e you can look at those things.

If what you’re trying to do is fill dams so that less water needs to be taken from MD tributaries then just use water recycling and desal.

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:30:04
From: Arts
ID: 1794564
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

we are harvesting water form the icecaps.. we just have to wait.

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:37:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794568
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

captain_spalding said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Some ideas.

1 Water harvesting from air, depending on viability.

Welcome back, Zarkov.

Lights pipe, Im not Zarkov.

Extracting drinking water from dry desert air is no longer a pipe dream
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-06-09/water-harvesting-from-desert-air/9836908

Water harvesting from air with metal-organic frameworks powered by natural sunlight
http://globalscience.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/waterharvesting.pdf

Here’s one way to harvest water right out of the air
https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/harvest-water-right-out-of-the-air

Atmospheric water generator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

Producing Water from Air New Technion Moisture Harvesting System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fQRnM4-4W4

This water harvester can turn desert air into drinkable water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6T3ICXWqjc

Harvesting water out of thin air
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UDNEOn8jhc
———

Top 7 Types Of Rainwater Harvesting Storage Systems You Should Be Knowing
https://gosmartbricks.com/top-7-types-of-rainwater-harvesting-systems-you-should-be-knowing/

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:49:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794574
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Any environmental studies been done in this area of harvesting water from air?

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Date: 24/09/2021 12:51:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794575
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Anyone catch that free pun I threw in?

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:07:15
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1794580
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


Any environmental studies been done in this area of harvesting water from air?

It uses masive amounts of energy, and on the scales proposed here, would probably start unbalancing the natural rainfall.

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:13:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794582
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Dark Orange said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Any environmental studies been done in this area of harvesting water from air?

It uses masive amounts of energy, and on the scales proposed here, would probably start unbalancing the natural rainfall.

a Some harvesting systems use more energy than others.
b How it would effect natural rain fall would have to be studied.

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:15:05
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1794583
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Some ideas.

1 Water harvesting from air, depending on viability.

Welcome back, Zarkov.

Lights pipe, Im not Zarkov.

Neutrino isn’t. I am.

Easy solution. Get water for the Murray-Darling from the Warragamba Dam. The Hunter River water is extremely under-utilised so use the Hunter River water as an extra water supply for the Sydney-Newcastle-Wollongong conurbation freeing the water from Warragamba Dam for diversion into the Murray-Darling basin.

Further north, the Clarence River is also extremely underutilised so transfer some of that into the Murray-Darling.

Arts said:


we are harvesting water form the icecaps.. we just have to wait.

Yes. Wait for climate change.

Climate change is a double plus for Murray-Darling water supply.

Firstly, climate change in Australia is that the SW of the country (including Adelaide) gets drier. And the SE of the country including the Murray-Darling gets wetter.

Secondly, increrasing atmospheric CO2 means that in order for plants to grow through photosynthesis they need to keep their stoma open for a smaller fraction of the time. Lower stoma opening time means that transpiration is reduced and as a result there is less water loss and the plants grow just as well or better on a lower water supply. This has already been observed on the Murray-Darling basin with irrigated crops requiring less water than they used to, of order 35% less water.

The water problem with the Murray-Darling is actually due to houshold water use. Household water use because of increased population has increased enormously since the 1970s, use of water in irrigation has decreased over the same period, and water for unirrigated crops has pretty well held steady. So fix that by slowing the growth of cities on the Murray-Darling, or insist on greywater recycling in those cities.

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:15:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794584
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


Dark Orange said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Any environmental studies been done in this area of harvesting water from air?

It uses masive amounts of energy, and on the scales proposed here, would probably start unbalancing the natural rainfall.

a Some harvesting systems use more energy than others.
b How it would effect natural rain fall would have to be studied.

Some are passive, but still require a some energy to make.

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:18:14
From: roughbarked
ID: 1794585
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

mollwollfumble said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

Lights pipe, Im not Zarkov.

Neutrino isn’t. I am.

Easy solution. Get water for the Murray-Darling from the Warragamba Dam. The Hunter River water is extremely under-utilised so use the Hunter River water as an extra water supply for the Sydney-Newcastle-Wollongong conurbation freeing the water from Warragamba Dam for diversion into the Murray-Darling basin.

Further north, the Clarence River is also extremely underutilised so transfer some of that into the Murray-Darling.

Arts said:


we are harvesting water form the icecaps.. we just have to wait.

Yes. Wait for climate change.

Climate change is a double plus for Murray-Darling water supply.

Firstly, climate change in Australia is that the SW of the country (including Adelaide) gets drier. And the SE of the country including the Murray-Darling gets wetter.

Secondly, increrasing atmospheric CO2 means that in order for plants to grow through photosynthesis they need to keep their stoma open for a smaller fraction of the time. Lower stoma opening time means that transpiration is reduced and as a result there is less water loss and the plants grow just as well or better on a lower water supply. This has already been observed on the Murray-Darling basin with irrigated crops requiring less water than they used to, of order 35% less water.

The water problem with the Murray-Darling is actually due to houshold water use. Household water use because of increased population has increased enormously since the 1970s, use of water in irrigation has decreased over the same period, and water for unirrigated crops has pretty well held steady. So fix that by slowing the growth of cities on the Murray-Darling, or insist on greywater recycling in those cities.

You don’t seem to know much about climate change and water. That’s all I am going to say.

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:19:57
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1794586
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Dark Orange said:

It uses masive amounts of energy, and on the scales proposed here, would probably start unbalancing the natural rainfall.

a Some harvesting systems use more energy than others.
b How it would effect natural rain fall would have to be studied.

Some are passive, but still require a some energy to make.

Ref?
The only industrial scale water harvesting techniques I know of require cooling below the air’s dew point, or pressurising it. Both systems use large amounts of energy.

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:20:40
From: furious
ID: 1794587
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

What you need is a location with access to lots of sun and a body of water, any will do. Use electricity generated from the sun to make hydrogen from the water. Don’t worry about collecting the oxygen, unless you have a use for it elsewhere. Now, transport the hydrogen to where you want water, it is lighter than water so it is cheaper on fuel costs. Or, for a permanent solution, put in pipes. At the recieval end, turn the hydrogen into water using atmospheric oxygen. Job done. On the plus side, you can also use that process for electricity generation at that end…

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:21:25
From: sibeen
ID: 1794589
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Dark Orange said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

a Some harvesting systems use more energy than others.
b How it would effect natural rain fall would have to be studied.

Some are passive, but still require a some energy to make.

Ref?
The only industrial scale water harvesting techniques I know of require cooling below the air’s dew point, or pressurising it. Both systems use large amounts of energy.

Huge amounts of energy. Completely impractical.

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:23:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794590
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Here is one passive system

Fog collection
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_collection

Fog collection refers to the collection of water from fog using large pieces of vertical mesh net to make the fog-droplets flow down towards a trough below, known as a fog fence, fog collector or fog net. Through condensation, atmospheric water vapour from the air condenses on cold surfaces into droplets of liquid water known as dew. The phenomenon is most observable on thin, flat, exposed objects including plant leaves and blades of grass. As the exposed surface cools by radiating its heat to the sky, atmospheric moisture condenses at a rate greater than that of which it can evaporate, resulting in the formation of water droplets.

Water condenses onto the array of parallel wires and collects at the bottom of the net. This requires no external energy and is facilitated naturally through temperature fluctuation, making it attractive for deployment in less developed areas. The term fog fence comes from its long rectangular shape that resemble a fence, but fog collectors are not confined to only this style of structure. The efficiency of the fog collector is based on material of the net, the size of the holes and filament, and chemical coating. Efficient fog collectors can harvest up to 10% of the moisture in the air, and inefficient collectors yield 2% of moisture. An ideal location is a high altitude arid area near cold offshore currents, where fog is common, and therefore, the fog collector can produce the highest yield

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Date: 24/09/2021 13:26:59
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794591
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Here is another passive system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_(condenser)

An air well or aerial well is a structure or device that collects water by promoting the condensation of moisture from air. Designs for air wells are many and varied, but the simplest designs are completely passive, require no external energy source and have few, if any, moving parts.

Three principal designs are used for air wells, designated as high mass, radiative, and active:

High-mass air wells: used in the early 20th century, but the approach failed. Low-mass, radiative collectors: Developed in the late 20th century onwards, proved to be much more successful. Active collectors: these collect water in the same way as a dehumidifier; although the designs work well, they require an energy source, making them uneconomical except in special circumstances. New, innovative designs seek to minimise the energy requirements of active condensers or make use of sustainable and renewable energy resources.
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Date: 24/09/2021 15:27:00
From: dv
ID: 1794626
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


Any environmental studies been done in this area of harvesting water from air?

This is an extremely well established technology called an atmospheric water generator. They’ve been around since the 1990s at least.

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Date: 24/09/2021 20:54:16
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1794768
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

dv said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Any environmental studies been done in this area of harvesting water from air?

This is an extremely well established technology called an atmospheric water generator. They’ve been around since the 1990s at least.

On the scale I am talking about, using active/passive water harvesting machines to produce large scale water production, an environmental impact study would be required.

Otherwise, it may be feasible on a smaller scale for smaller farms, towns.

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Date: 24/09/2021 21:21:26
From: dv
ID: 1794777
Subject: re: Murray–Darling Basin

Tau.Neutrino said:


dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Any environmental studies been done in this area of harvesting water from air?

This is an extremely well established technology called an atmospheric water generator. They’ve been around since the 1990s at least.

On the scale I am talking about, using active/passive water harvesting machines to produce large scale water production, an environmental impact study would be required.

Otherwise, it may be feasible on a smaller scale for smaller farms, towns.

Then I can only ask you: why do these methods appeal to you over the recycling and desal plants that are already installed on an industrial scale in Australia.

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