I’m just starting to read about ancient Rome again, and happened to notice how closely the military was tied in with the government.

Which made me wonder. I usually think of Government as a battle between the politicians and the beaurocracy, as satirised in that TV documentary series “Yes Minister”.

But there are a lot of governments around the world in which the military plays a large role, either directly (eg. Fiji, Myanmar, Israel) or indirectly where world leaders are ex-servicemen (or intelligence officers).

Generals play a big role in US government. Less so in Australia.

So, thinking of government as a three-proged affair: politicians+bureaucracy+military, who are the generals?

mollwollfumble said:

I’m just starting to read about ancient Rome again, and happened to notice how closely the military was tied in with the government.

Which made me wonder. I usually think of Government as a battle between the politicians and the beaurocracy, as satirised in that TV documentary series “Yes Minister”.

But there are a lot of governments around the world in which the military plays a large role, either directly (eg. Fiji, Myanmar, Israel) or indirectly where world leaders are ex-servicemen (or intelligence officers).

Generals play a big role in US government. Less so in Australia.

So, thinking of government as a three-proged affair: politicians+bureaucracy+military, who are the generals?

Joint Chiefs of Staff ?

Hello there!

dv said:

Hello there!

Is that a generalisation?

Michael V said:

dv said:

Hello there!

Is that a generalisation?

Something like that

It took we a while to reply as everything on my desk was a mess and I couldn’t find the keyboard

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’m just starting to read about ancient Rome again, and happened to notice how closely the military was tied in with the government.

Which made me wonder. I usually think of Government as a battle between the politicians and the beaurocracy, as satirised in that TV documentary series “Yes Minister”.

But there are a lot of governments around the world in which the military plays a large role, either directly (eg. Fiji, Myanmar, Israel) or indirectly where world leaders are ex-servicemen (or intelligence officers).

Generals play a big role in US government. Less so in Australia.

So, thinking of government as a three-proged affair: politicians+bureaucracy+military, who are the generals?

Joint Chiefs of Staff ?

Yes. What is their attitude and how does it affect government?

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’m just starting to read about ancient Rome again, and happened to notice how closely the military was tied in with the government.

Which made me wonder. I usually think of Government as a battle between the politicians and the beaurocracy, as satirised in that TV documentary series “Yes Minister”.

But there are a lot of governments around the world in which the military plays a large role, either directly (eg. Fiji, Myanmar, Israel) or indirectly where world leaders are ex-servicemen (or intelligence officers).

Generals play a big role in US government. Less so in Australia.

So, thinking of government as a three-proged affair: politicians+bureaucracy+military, who are the generals?

Joint Chiefs of Staff ?

Yes. What is their attitude and how does it affect government?

In Australia, the military/armed forces have no political role or outlook.

They don’t have a political stance, they don’t try to exert influence over government policies, or pursue and political, geo-political, or policy agendas of their own.

They, through, the Defence Force Staff, can advise and assist the government of the day in formulating and implementing its policies, but have no partisan preferences. Their job is to support the government, and to help it make the best decisions in the running of, the equipping of, and the use of the defence forces.

captain_spalding said:

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Joint Chiefs of Staff ?

Yes. What is their attitude and how does it affect government?

In Australia, the military/armed forces have no political role or outlook.

They don’t have a political stance, they don’t try to exert influence over government policies, or pursue and political, geo-political, or policy agendas of their own.

They, through, the Defence Force Staff, can advise and assist the government of the day in formulating and implementing its policies, but have no partisan preferences. Their job is to support the government, and to help it make the best decisions in the running of, the equipping of, and the use of the defence forces.

^^^

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

mollwollfumble said:

Yes. What is their attitude and how does it affect government?

In Australia, the military/armed forces have no political role or outlook.

They don’t have a political stance, they don’t try to exert influence over government policies, or pursue and political, geo-political, or policy agendas of their own.

They, through, the Defence Force Staff, can advise and assist the government of the day in formulating and implementing its policies, but have no partisan preferences. Their job is to support the government, and to help it make the best decisions in the running of, the equipping of, and the use of the defence forces.

^^^

Australia isn’t a military state.
Others may be.

roughbarked said:

Australia isn’t a military state.
Others may be.

Agree, but what would be the mindset of Australia’s and the US’s generals?

Would they tend more towards the “average Joe” mindset or more towards the “extreme military” mindset?

By “extreme military” mindset I would include:

• Everyone is either a soldier (squaddie) or an enemy or a nuisance.
• What we need is another war. Ideally war eternal.
• Everyone would benefit from boot camp.
• Honour and duty above all.
• Disobeying a direct order is a crime.
• Management is a strict chain of command.
• Cannon fodder is an acceptable military strategy.
• Looting is a fair way to pay for a war.
• Pacifists are fair game.

Throughout andient Rome, WWI and WWII, all generals have held to these opinions. I’m wondering whether such private opinions remain during peacetime.

Russia’s best general was General Winter.
Defeated Napoleon and Hitler

Peak Warming Man said:

Russia’s best general was General Winter.
Defeated Napoleon and Hitler

Hitler defeated Hitler in Russia.

I recommend Anthony Beevor’s ‘Stalingrad’.

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Russia’s best general was General Winter.
Defeated Napoleon and Hitler

Hitler defeated Hitler in Russia.

I recommend Anthony Beevor’s ‘Stalingrad’.

Hitler tended to take personal charge of things. When he left war to the generals things went well, when he intervened they went not so well.