Non-science, apologies.

I am writing a non-fiction book, no-mathematics. Page size 233*155 mm.

Please look up a recent non-fiction book, or look up the default for Word.
¿What font, font size, line spacing, paragraph spacing, indenting, justified or not, italic/bold, margins, heading, etc. would be best to use.
And how to create an index.

I’ve changed so many of the defaults in Word that I now have no idea what is/are the standards.

Much depends on the book style, size and format, how much they’re trying to include in how many pages etc.

Huge variety out there.

Bubblecar said:

Much depends on the book style, size and format, how much they’re trying to include in how many pages etc.

Huge variety out there.

Give me one.

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

Much depends on the book style, size and format, how much they’re trying to include in how many pages etc.

Huge variety out there.

Give me one.

Seems a bit pointless, moll. The professional designers will just go with whatever they think looks good for the book in question.

I suggest you do the same :)

Georgia, font size 12/13, double spaced. Margins on both sides.

May as well make it easy to work with and change it to something else when you finish it if needs be.

Word default is something like this.

Mostly Sans serif. Multiple colours, sizes, fonts. Line spacing 1.15 with 10 pt after paragraph. Left justificatioin

Word also comes with templates called by uninformative names: adjacency, apothacary, black tie, equity, essential, executive, medon, oriel, origin, urban.

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

Much depends on the book style, size and format, how much they’re trying to include in how many pages etc.

Huge variety out there.

Give me one.

Default Word font is Calibri 11.

mollwollfumble said:

Word default is something like this.

Mostly Sans serif. Multiple colours, sizes, fonts. Line spacing 1.15 with 10 pt after paragraph. Left justificatioin

Word also comes with templates called by uninformative names: adjacency, apothacary, black tie, equity, essential, executive, medon, oriel, origin, urban.

I’ve never used Word for such purposes, so can’t advise.

Publications that I’ve set out for myself (instructions for model kits etc) I’ve just done in Photoshop, selecting whatever font I like, arranging the spacing as I see fit and saving as PDFs.

I don’t advise that method as it’s highly eccentric and unprofessional, and would take aaages for an entire book :)

Bubblecar said:

Publications that I’ve set out for myself (instructions for model kits etc) I’ve just done in Photoshop, selecting whatever font I like, arranging the spacing as I see fit and saving as PDFs.

I don’t advise that method as it’s highly eccentric and unprofessional, and would take aaages for an entire book :)

> Georgia, font size 12/13, double spaced. Margins on both sides. May as well make it easy to work with and change it to something else when you finish it if needs be.

Ta, noted.
——

You can do it in Photoshop?

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

Publications that I’ve set out for myself (instructions for model kits etc) I’ve just done in Photoshop, selecting whatever font I like, arranging the spacing as I see fit and saving as PDFs.

I don’t advise that method as it’s highly eccentric and unprofessional, and would take aaages for an entire book :)

> Georgia, font size 12/13, double spaced. Margins on both sides. May as well make it easy to work with and change it to something else when you finish it if needs be.

Ta, noted.
——

You can do it in Photoshop?

Not advised.

Have a look at these apps, doubtless there are others:

https://www.hookedtobooks.com/best-app-writing-book/

Scrivener might be what you’re looking for, and it’s cheap (and free for the first 30days):

>When you log into Scrivener, you’ll first choose a template that suits your project (for example, a fiction or non-fiction book). You can either begin writing directly into the interface or import your text from elsewhere.

The sidebar on the left of the screen has tabs for a variety of elements that help you organize your writing. The best part is, you can personalize these tabs to show exactly what you need, and omit everything that you don’t.

There’s an endless array of helpful tools to choose from. There’re tabs for individual scenes within chapters of your book, as well as character tabs to help with individual character building throughout the story. There’s also a handy research tracking tool to keep your research focused and applicable.

If you struggle with organization and you value attention to detail, then Scrivener could be a massive help to you when you’re writing a book.

https://www.hookedtobooks.com/best-app-writing-book/

Bubblecar said:

Scrivener might be what you’re looking for, and it’s cheap (and free for the first 30days):

>When you log into Scrivener, you’ll first choose a template that suits your project (for example, a fiction or non-fiction book). You can either begin writing directly into the interface or import your text from elsewhere.

The sidebar on the left of the screen has tabs for a variety of elements that help you organize your writing. The best part is, you can personalize these tabs to show exactly what you need, and omit everything that you don’t.

There’s an endless array of helpful tools to choose from. There’re tabs for individual scenes within chapters of your book, as well as character tabs to help with individual character building throughout the story. There’s also a handy research tracking tool to keep your research focused and applicable.

If you struggle with organization and you value attention to detail, then Scrivener could be a massive help to you when you’re writing a book.

https://www.hookedtobooks.com/best-app-writing-book/

I tried Scrivener. we didn’t get on.

mollwollfumble said:

Non-science, apologies.

I am writing a non-fiction book, no-mathematics. Page size 233*155 mm.

Please look up a recent non-fiction book, or look up the default for Word.
¿What font, font size, line spacing, paragraph spacing, indenting, justified or not, italic/bold, margins, heading, etc. would be best to use.
And how to create an index.

I’ve changed so many of the defaults in Word that I now have no idea what is/are the standards.

List of Typefaces

Gotta’ Lurve Zapfino

…if at first…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_typefaces_included_with_macOS

I’ve written, printed, and bound several books, film scripts, and stage plays; I’ve always used LaTeX. For scripts and plays I use the Hollywood and Broadway classes respectively; for books I tend to start with the default book class but add some mods as needed. The amsmath package provides very good maths support.

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

Publications that I’ve set out for myself (instructions for model kits etc) I’ve just done in Photoshop, selecting whatever font I like, arranging the spacing as I see fit and saving as PDFs.

I don’t advise that method as it’s highly eccentric and unprofessional, and would take aaages for an entire book :)

> Georgia, font size 12/13, double spaced. Margins on both sides. May as well make it easy to work with and change it to something else when you finish it if needs be.

Ta, noted.
——

You can do it in Photoshop?

Not advised.

Have a look at these apps, doubtless there are others:

https://www.hookedtobooks.com/best-app-writing-book/

> Scrivener.

“Cost: Free for the first 30 days, after which there’s a one time license fee of $40.84”.

That’s what I like to see, a once only fee for long term use.

Looks OK. ¿Can I set up automated table of contents and index, I wonder.

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Georgia, font size 12/13, double spaced. Margins on both sides. May as well make it easy to work with and change it to something else when you finish it if needs be.

Ta, noted.
——

You can do it in Photoshop?

Not advised.

Have a look at these apps, doubtless there are others:

https://www.hookedtobooks.com/best-app-writing-book/

> Scrivener.

“Cost: Free for the first 30 days, after which there’s a one time license fee of $40.84”.

That’s what I like to see, a once only fee for long term use.

Looks OK. ¿Can I set up automated table of contents and index, I wonder.

It seemed to be good at keeping footnotes and bibliography together.

sarahs mum said:

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

Not advised.

Have a look at these apps, doubtless there are others:

https://www.hookedtobooks.com/best-app-writing-book/

> Scrivener.

“Cost: Free for the first 30 days, after which there’s a one time license fee of $40.84”.

That’s what I like to see, a once only fee for long term use.

Looks OK. ¿Can I set up automated table of contents and index, I wonder.

It seemed to be good at keeping footnotes and bibliography together.

People who liked it mostly lked it because you could keep several documents open and accessible at the same time.

> Georgia

Not to be used for any text with numbers in. The number sizes and positions are all over the place. At least now I know where the jumbled numbers I’ve seen in certain technical magazines comes from.

I have to admit that Calibri is a lot easier to read than Times New Roman. Times New Roman text has letters too close together making them easy to get confused. Callibri is a thicker font, too, which aids readability. But not as thick as bold fonts.The added thickness more than compensates for the smaller text size.

I tried Windows default, and it looks awful.
Calibri 11 with 1.15 line spacing and 10 pt spacing after paragraph. No indenting or justification 1 inch margins.
This looks OK on A4 paper. But, with reducing the page to book size, that line spacing of 1.15 leads to total destruction.
Neutrino (my gender-fluid child) suggests Calibri 11 with 1.08 line spacing and 8 pt spacing after paragraph for A4. No justification.
Looks really good on A4, but not so good on a smaller page.

Checking with the recent New Atlas of Australian Birds
That’s a much bigger page, slightly larger than A4
It uses two columns with justified text. Column width 91 mm.
Narrow left, right and bottom margins (1/2 inch instead of 1 inch)
Slightly weird serif font, the hyphens aren’t horizontal. Not quite Calluna.
First four words are all-caps.
Font height 1.8 mm lower case, 2.8 mm for capitals and letters with risers
Line spacing 153 mm for 32 lines.
Heavy use of italics within the text.
No space between paragraphs, space before headings.
Secondary heading font 4 mm for capitals. 10 mm spce before secondary headings.
Main heading all caps 10 mm first letter, 8 mm other letters.
20 mm space before and 57 mm after main heading.
Aim for ten words per line.
Small first line indent of 6 mm.

Here’s a really weird discovery.
Looking through about 15 non-science non-fiction books published in 2020-2021. Mostly biographies but ranging from native Australians to Rock Bands, from Self Help to Art history.

The weird thing is that they all has 31 or 32 lines per page, and averaged 11 or 12 words per line.
I ought to be able to get font size and line spacing from that.

ie., They all had the same number of words per page, about 360 words per page.

Also, all had a similar serif font (never sans serif), narrow margins, small first line indents, no space between paragraphs, single column justified text. In other words, a startling uniformity.

And a very long way from Word standard layout.

This uniformity is even more strange than all Mills & Boone books having the exact same number of pages. These non-sci books have wildly differeing numbers of pages, and only about half are paperbacks.

They did have different ways of handling long quotes so, as what I’m typing is almost all long quotes, I’ll have to think about that.
One cute way was to keep the text font identical but have a pale imprint of imitation blotting paper as background. Another cute way was to put corner angles around big quotes. Most had some sort of indent for quotes, most had a slightly smaller font in the quotes, but there were many exceptions.

Handling of chapter headings was simetimes similar, sometimes different, but every one had chapter headings a very long way down from the top of the page.

mollwollfumble said:

Here’s a really weird discovery.
Looking through about 15 non-science non-fiction books published in 2020-2021. Mostly biographies but ranging from native Australians to Rock Bands, from Self Help to Art history.

The weird thing is that they all has 31 or 32 lines per page, and averaged 11 or 12 words per line.
I ought to be able to get font size and line spacing from that.

ie., They all had the same number of words per page, about 360 words per page.

Also, all had a similar serif font (never sans serif), narrow margins, small first line indents, no space between paragraphs, single column justified text. In other words, a startling uniformity.

And a very long way from Word standard layout.

This uniformity is even more strange than all Mills & Boone books having the exact same number of pages. These non-sci books have wildly differeing numbers of pages, and only about half are paperbacks.

They did have different ways of handling long quotes so, as what I’m typing is almost all long quotes, I’ll have to think about that.
One cute way was to keep the text font identical but have a pale imprint of imitation blotting paper as background. Another cute way was to put corner angles around big quotes. Most had some sort of indent for quotes, most had a slightly smaller font in the quotes, but there were many exceptions.

Handling of chapter headings was simetimes similar, sometimes different, but every one had chapter headings a very long way down from the top of the page.

>>serif font (never sans serif)<<

I have a feeling there is some research somewhere that found serifed font is easier to read. I don’t know where I read it though, it was a very long time ago.

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

Here’s a really weird discovery.
Looking through about 15 non-science non-fiction books published in 2020-2021. Mostly biographies but ranging from native Australians to Rock Bands, from Self Help to Art history.

The weird thing is that they all has 31 or 32 lines per page, and averaged 11 or 12 words per line.
I ought to be able to get font size and line spacing from that.

ie., They all had the same number of words per page, about 360 words per page.

Also, all had a similar serif font (never sans serif), narrow margins, small first line indents, no space between paragraphs, single column justified text. In other words, a startling uniformity.

And a very long way from Word standard layout.

This uniformity is even more strange than all Mills & Boone books having the exact same number of pages. These non-sci books have wildly differeing numbers of pages, and only about half are paperbacks.

They did have different ways of handling long quotes so, as what I’m typing is almost all long quotes, I’ll have to think about that.
One cute way was to keep the text font identical but have a pale imprint of imitation blotting paper as background. Another cute way was to put corner angles around big quotes. Most had some sort of indent for quotes, most had a slightly smaller font in the quotes, but there were many exceptions.

Handling of chapter headings was simetimes similar, sometimes different, but every one had chapter headings a very long way down from the top of the page.

>>serif font (never sans serif)<<

I have a feeling there is some research somewhere that found serifed font is easier to read. I don’t know where I read it though, it was a very long time ago.

and yet here we are reading a sans font and doing it for years. I find a sans font far nicer to read.

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

Here’s a really weird discovery.
Looking through about 15 non-science non-fiction books published in 2020-2021. Mostly biographies but ranging from native Australians to Rock Bands, from Self Help to Art history.

The weird thing is that they all has 31 or 32 lines per page, and averaged 11 or 12 words per line.
I ought to be able to get font size and line spacing from that.

ie., They all had the same number of words per page, about 360 words per page.

Also, all had a similar serif font (never sans serif), narrow margins, small first line indents, no space between paragraphs, single column justified text. In other words, a startling uniformity.

And a very long way from Word standard layout.

This uniformity is even more strange than all Mills & Boone books having the exact same number of pages. These non-sci books have wildly differeing numbers of pages, and only about half are paperbacks.

They did have different ways of handling long quotes so, as what I’m typing is almost all long quotes, I’ll have to think about that.
One cute way was to keep the text font identical but have a pale imprint of imitation blotting paper as background. Another cute way was to put corner angles around big quotes. Most had some sort of indent for quotes, most had a slightly smaller font in the quotes, but there were many exceptions.

Handling of chapter headings was simetimes similar, sometimes different, but every one had chapter headings a very long way down from the top of the page.

>>serif font (never sans serif)<<

I have a feeling there is some research somewhere that found serifed font is easier to read. I don’t know where I read it though, it was a very long time ago.

and yet here we are reading a sans font and doing it for years. I find a sans font far nicer to read.

I read somewhere online that sans fonts are easier to read online.

So it must be true.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

>>serif font (never sans serif)<<

I have a feeling there is some research somewhere that found serifed font is easier to read. I don’t know where I read it though, it was a very long time ago.

and yet here we are reading a sans font and doing it for years. I find a sans font far nicer to read.

I read somewhere online that sans fonts are easier to read online.

So it must be true.

I also should admit that i have a pathological hatred of Times Roman.

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

Here’s a really weird discovery.
Looking through about 15 non-science non-fiction books published in 2020-2021. Mostly biographies but ranging from native Australians to Rock Bands, from Self Help to Art history.

The weird thing is that they all has 31 or 32 lines per page, and averaged 11 or 12 words per line.
I ought to be able to get font size and line spacing from that.

ie., They all had the same number of words per page, about 360 words per page.

Also, all had a similar serif font (never sans serif), narrow margins, small first line indents, no space between paragraphs, single column justified text. In other words, a startling uniformity.

And a very long way from Word standard layout.

This uniformity is even more strange than all Mills & Boone books having the exact same number of pages. These non-sci books have wildly differeing numbers of pages, and only about half are paperbacks.

They did have different ways of handling long quotes so, as what I’m typing is almost all long quotes, I’ll have to think about that.
One cute way was to keep the text font identical but have a pale imprint of imitation blotting paper as background. Another cute way was to put corner angles around big quotes. Most had some sort of indent for quotes, most had a slightly smaller font in the quotes, but there were many exceptions.

Handling of chapter headings was simetimes similar, sometimes different, but every one had chapter headings a very long way down from the top of the page.

>>serif font (never sans serif)<<

I have a feeling there is some research somewhere that found serifed font is easier to read. I don’t know where I read it though, it was a very long time ago.

and yet here we are reading a sans font and doing it for years. I find a sans font far nicer to read.

Me too.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

and yet here we are reading a sans font and doing it for years. I find a sans font far nicer to read.

I read somewhere online that sans fonts are easier to read online.

So it must be true.

I also should admit that i have a pathological hatred of Times Roman.

Why? Does it just grate or something? I’ve used it since forever for my professional letters.

buffy said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I read somewhere online that sans fonts are easier to read online.

So it must be true.

I also should admit that i have a pathological hatred of Times Roman.

Why? Does it just grate or something? I’ve used it since forever for my professional letters.

Not for my letterhead though. That was in one of the script fonts and my address and phone number were in a plain sans serif. I can’t remember which ones now.

buffy said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I read somewhere online that sans fonts are easier to read online.

So it must be true.

I also should admit that i have a pathological hatred of Times Roman.

Why? Does it just grate or something? I’ve used it since forever for my professional letters.

I find it an ugly font, all scrunched up and common. I never use it. I use mainly a Bodoni type face.

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

JudgeMental said:

I also should admit that i have a pathological hatred of Times Roman.

Why? Does it just grate or something? I’ve used it since forever for my professional letters.

I find it an ugly font, all scrunched up and common. I never use it. I use mainly a Bodoni type face.

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

buffy said:

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

Why? Does it just grate or something? I’ve used it since forever for my professional letters.

I find it an ugly font, all scrunched up and common. I never use it. I use mainly a Bodoni type face.

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

LOL, fashion, really? I’m a printer and have done lots of design work.

buffy said:

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

Why? Does it just grate or something? I’ve used it since forever for my professional letters.

I find it an ugly font, all scrunched up and common. I never use it. I use mainly a Bodoni type face.

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

You’ll never get to be a leader of fashion with a wotten attitude like that.

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

JudgeMental said:

I find it an ugly font, all scrunched up and common. I never use it. I use mainly a Bodoni type face.

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

LOL, fashion, really? I’m a printer and have done lots of design work.

So?

I have searched the Internet:

“Times New Roman – an excellent option for news and educational websites.”

This seems to be a reasonable wander through the topic:

https://geniusee.com/single-blog/font-readability-research-famous-designers-vs-scientists

It includes links to the papers mentioned.

The Rev Dodgson said:

buffy said:

JudgeMental said:

I find it an ugly font, all scrunched up and common. I never use it. I use mainly a Bodoni type face.

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

You’ll never get to be a leader of fashion with a wotten attitude like that.

???

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

LOL, fashion, really? I’m a printer and have done lots of design work.

So?

I have searched the Internet:

“Times New Roman – an excellent option for news and educational websites.”

didn’t worry about websites when I was doing design. real words on a real substance printed with real ink. not this ephemeral electrons.

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

buffy said:

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

You’ll never get to be a leader of fashion with a wotten attitude like that.

???

You know I was joking, right?

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

LOL, fashion, really? I’m a printer and have done lots of design work.

So?

I have searched the Internet:

“Times New Roman – an excellent option for news and educational websites.”

I sincerely hope that people here have noted that my comments are from a purely personal perspective? I dislike Times Roman. You are free to like it.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You’ll never get to be a leader of fashion with a wotten attitude like that.

???

You know I was joking, right?

I figured that, but I couldn’t work out the joke.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

It’s likely that I started writing professional letters on the computer back when Times New Roman was the default font. So everyone used it. I’ve seen no reason to change. Fashion is not a reason.

LOL, fashion, really? I’m a printer and have done lots of design work.

So?

I have searched the Internet:

“Times New Roman – an excellent option for news and educational websites.”

good to see you have done your “research”.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

LOL, fashion, really? I’m a printer and have done lots of design work.

So?

I have searched the Internet:

“Times New Roman – an excellent option for news and educational websites.”

I sincerely hope that people here have noted that my comments are from a purely personal perspective? I dislike Times Roman. You are free to like it.

I used this font for my boiler house model instructions. Can’t remember what it is but it’s more pleasing than Times New Roman, with less huddled letters.

Bubblecar said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So?

I have searched the Internet:

“Times New Roman – an excellent option for news and educational websites.”

I sincerely hope that people here have noted that my comments are from a purely personal perspective? I dislike Times Roman. You are free to like it.

I used this font for my boiler house model instructions. Can’t remember what it is but it’s more pleasing than Times New Roman, with less huddled letters.

the first para has two font sizes. but that typeface is, as you say, less huddled than TR.

JudgeMental said:

Bubblecar said:

JudgeMental said:

I sincerely hope that people here have noted that my comments are from a purely personal perspective? I dislike Times Roman. You are free to like it.

I used this font for my boiler house model instructions. Can’t remember what it is but it’s more pleasing than Times New Roman, with less huddled letters.

the first para has two font sizes. but that typeface is, as you say, less huddled than TR.

It does too, I wonder what happened there :)

It’s all a bit ad hoc, just done in Photoshop.

I have to tell students to use times new Roman otherwise we get some fucked up fonts that make marking assignment number 78 even more difficult and frustrating to read. We aren’t in a design competition, just write something intelligent and show some synthesis of ideas…

I’m going to add an Easter egg in my syllabus this semester… we’ll see how many people read the whole thing.

Arts said:

I have to tell students to use times new Roman otherwise we get some fucked up fonts that make marking assignment number 78 even more difficult and frustrating to read. We aren’t in a design competition, just write something intelligent and show some synthesis of ideas…

I’m going to add an Easter egg in my syllabus this semester… we’ll see how many people read the whole thing.

you could command your students to use another font too, doesn’t have to be TR, unless that is the style format of all Uni work.

JudgeMental said:

Arts said:

I have to tell students to use times new Roman otherwise we get some fucked up fonts that make marking assignment number 78 even more difficult and frustrating to read. We aren’t in a design competition, just write something intelligent and show some synthesis of ideas…

I’m going to add an Easter egg in my syllabus this semester… we’ll see how many people read the whole thing.

you could command your students to use another font too, doesn’t have to be TR, unless that is the style format of all Uni work.

It’s just easier. And other fonts do something to LMS marking system that messes up the formatting… which is graded. Times new Roman isn’t the devil, I find it easy to read especially after reading so many bits of work in a short amount of time.

Arts said:

JudgeMental said:

Arts said:

I have to tell students to use times new Roman otherwise we get some fucked up fonts that make marking assignment number 78 even more difficult and frustrating to read. We aren’t in a design competition, just write something intelligent and show some synthesis of ideas…

I’m going to add an Easter egg in my syllabus this semester… we’ll see how many people read the whole thing.

you could command your students to use another font too, doesn’t have to be TR, unless that is the style format of all Uni work.

It’s just easier. And other fonts do something to LMS marking system that messes up the formatting… which is graded. Times new Roman isn’t the devil, I find it easy to read especially after reading so many bits of work in a short amount of time.

I can understand tradition.

;-)