Date: 6/02/2022 10:52:51
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1845234
Subject: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

Fish Have ‘Talked’ For 155 Million Years, And Now You Can Hear Their ‘Voices’

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/fish-have-talked-for-155-million-years-and-now-you-can-hear-their-voices/ar-AATupMs?ocid=msedgntp

https://youtu.be/gFNEA93qFL4

https://youtu.be/RZttZqoVLU8

All manner of croaks, chirps, and deep trombone moans permeate Earth’s waters, just like the cacophony of sounds that fill its forest air. For example, reefs are surprisingly noisy places, and many of the noisemakers are fish.

“We’ve known for a long time that some fish make sounds, but fish sounds were always perceived as rare oddities,’‘ said Cornell University ecologist Aaron Rice.

It was likely assumed fish relied primarily on other means of communication, from color signals and body language to electricity. But recent discoveries have demonstrated fish even have dawn and dusk choruses, just like birds.

“They’ve probably been overlooked because fishes are not easily heard or seen, and the science of underwater acoustic communication has primarily focused on whales and dolphins,” said Cornell evolutionary neuroscientist Andrew Bass.

“But fishes have voices too.”

And some sound like the most magnificent foghorn:

Scouring records of anatomical descriptions, sound recordings, and vocal accounts, Rice and colleagues identified several physiological features that allow the ray-finned (Actinopterygii) group of fishes to make these noises without vocal cords. This group contains more than 34,000 currently living species.

“They can grind their teeth or make movement noise in the water, and we do see a number of specializations that are involved,” Rice told Syfy Wire.

“Probably the most common adaptation are muscles associated with swim bladders. In fact, the swim bladder muscles of the toadfish are the fastest contracting vertebrate skeletal muscles. These are high-performing adaptations.”

Of 175 families of fishes, two-thirds were likely to communicate with sound – much more talkative fish than the one-fifth previously estimated. Analysis suggests these vocal communications may have evolved independently at least 33 times in fishes. Clearly, fish have some important things to say.

What’s more, fish-speak appeared around 155 million years ago, which interestingly happens to be around the same time evidence suggests land animals with backbones first vocalized too – animals we eventually evolved from.

“Our results strongly support the hypothesis that soniferous behavior is ancient,” the team wrote in their paper. “Together, these findings highlight the strong selection pressure favoring the evolution of this character across vertebrate lineages.”

Some fish groups were chattier than others, with toadfish and catfish amongst the most verbose groups. However, Rice and the team caution that their analysis only shows the presence of vocalizing fish rather than the presence of absence – it may just be that we just haven’t listened hard enough to hear the other groups out yet.

As for what they’re trying to say, fish are probably jabbering about food, warnings of danger, social happenings (including territorial arguments), and of course, sex. But who knows what other fishy secrets they may recite!

Some researchers have even been trying to use fish songs as underwater siren calls to beckon fish back to rejuvenating coral reefs.

“Fish do everything. They breathe air, they fly, they eat anything and everything – at this point, nothing would surprise me about fishes and the sounds that they can make,” said Rice.

This research was published in Ichthyology & Herpetology.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 10:54:44
From: dv
ID: 1845237
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

monkey skipper said:


Fish Have ‘Talked’ For 155 Million Years, And Now You Can Hear Their ‘Voices’

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/fish-have-talked-for-155-million-years-and-now-you-can-hear-their-voices/ar-AATupMs?ocid=msedgntp

https://youtu.be/gFNEA93qFL4

https://youtu.be/RZttZqoVLU8

All manner of croaks, chirps, and deep trombone moans permeate Earth’s waters, just like the cacophony of sounds that fill its forest air. For example, reefs are surprisingly noisy places, and many of the noisemakers are fish.

“We’ve known for a long time that some fish make sounds, but fish sounds were always perceived as rare oddities,’‘ said Cornell University ecologist Aaron Rice.

It was likely assumed fish relied primarily on other means of communication, from color signals and body language to electricity. But recent discoveries have demonstrated fish even have dawn and dusk choruses, just like birds.

“They’ve probably been overlooked because fishes are not easily heard or seen, and the science of underwater acoustic communication has primarily focused on whales and dolphins,” said Cornell evolutionary neuroscientist Andrew Bass.

“But fishes have voices too.”

And some sound like the most magnificent foghorn:

Scouring records of anatomical descriptions, sound recordings, and vocal accounts, Rice and colleagues identified several physiological features that allow the ray-finned (Actinopterygii) group of fishes to make these noises without vocal cords. This group contains more than 34,000 currently living species.

“They can grind their teeth or make movement noise in the water, and we do see a number of specializations that are involved,” Rice told Syfy Wire.

“Probably the most common adaptation are muscles associated with swim bladders. In fact, the swim bladder muscles of the toadfish are the fastest contracting vertebrate skeletal muscles. These are high-performing adaptations.”

Of 175 families of fishes, two-thirds were likely to communicate with sound – much more talkative fish than the one-fifth previously estimated. Analysis suggests these vocal communications may have evolved independently at least 33 times in fishes. Clearly, fish have some important things to say.

What’s more, fish-speak appeared around 155 million years ago, which interestingly happens to be around the same time evidence suggests land animals with backbones first vocalized too – animals we eventually evolved from.

“Our results strongly support the hypothesis that soniferous behavior is ancient,” the team wrote in their paper. “Together, these findings highlight the strong selection pressure favoring the evolution of this character across vertebrate lineages.”

Some fish groups were chattier than others, with toadfish and catfish amongst the most verbose groups. However, Rice and the team caution that their analysis only shows the presence of vocalizing fish rather than the presence of absence – it may just be that we just haven’t listened hard enough to hear the other groups out yet.

As for what they’re trying to say, fish are probably jabbering about food, warnings of danger, social happenings (including territorial arguments), and of course, sex. But who knows what other fishy secrets they may recite!

Some researchers have even been trying to use fish songs as underwater siren calls to beckon fish back to rejuvenating coral reefs.

“Fish do everything. They breathe air, they fly, they eat anything and everything – at this point, nothing would surprise me about fishes and the sounds that they can make,” said Rice.

This research was published in Ichthyology & Herpetology.

Well this is very interesting and something I’ve not heard of.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 11:00:29
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1845238
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

dv said:


monkey skipper said:

Fish Have ‘Talked’ For 155 Million Years, And Now You Can Hear Their ‘Voices’

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/fish-have-talked-for-155-million-years-and-now-you-can-hear-their-voices/ar-AATupMs?ocid=msedgntp

https://youtu.be/gFNEA93qFL4

https://youtu.be/RZttZqoVLU8

All manner of croaks, chirps, and deep trombone moans permeate Earth’s waters, just like the cacophony of sounds that fill its forest air. For example, reefs are surprisingly noisy places, and many of the noisemakers are fish.

“We’ve known for a long time that some fish make sounds, but fish sounds were always perceived as rare oddities,’‘ said Cornell University ecologist Aaron Rice.

It was likely assumed fish relied primarily on other means of communication, from color signals and body language to electricity. But recent discoveries have demonstrated fish even have dawn and dusk choruses, just like birds.

“They’ve probably been overlooked because fishes are not easily heard or seen, and the science of underwater acoustic communication has primarily focused on whales and dolphins,” said Cornell evolutionary neuroscientist Andrew Bass.

“But fishes have voices too.”

And some sound like the most magnificent foghorn:

Scouring records of anatomical descriptions, sound recordings, and vocal accounts, Rice and colleagues identified several physiological features that allow the ray-finned (Actinopterygii) group of fishes to make these noises without vocal cords. This group contains more than 34,000 currently living species.

“They can grind their teeth or make movement noise in the water, and we do see a number of specializations that are involved,” Rice told Syfy Wire.

“Probably the most common adaptation are muscles associated with swim bladders. In fact, the swim bladder muscles of the toadfish are the fastest contracting vertebrate skeletal muscles. These are high-performing adaptations.”

Of 175 families of fishes, two-thirds were likely to communicate with sound – much more talkative fish than the one-fifth previously estimated. Analysis suggests these vocal communications may have evolved independently at least 33 times in fishes. Clearly, fish have some important things to say.

What’s more, fish-speak appeared around 155 million years ago, which interestingly happens to be around the same time evidence suggests land animals with backbones first vocalized too – animals we eventually evolved from.

“Our results strongly support the hypothesis that soniferous behavior is ancient,” the team wrote in their paper. “Together, these findings highlight the strong selection pressure favoring the evolution of this character across vertebrate lineages.”

Some fish groups were chattier than others, with toadfish and catfish amongst the most verbose groups. However, Rice and the team caution that their analysis only shows the presence of vocalizing fish rather than the presence of absence – it may just be that we just haven’t listened hard enough to hear the other groups out yet.

As for what they’re trying to say, fish are probably jabbering about food, warnings of danger, social happenings (including territorial arguments), and of course, sex. But who knows what other fishy secrets they may recite!

Some researchers have even been trying to use fish songs as underwater siren calls to beckon fish back to rejuvenating coral reefs.

“Fish do everything. They breathe air, they fly, they eat anything and everything – at this point, nothing would surprise me about fishes and the sounds that they can make,” said Rice.

This research was published in Ichthyology & Herpetology.

Well this is very interesting and something I’ve not heard of.

I thought to myself a few moments ago , sounds travels so well through water it makes sense that there would be more than whale songs going on … to communicate

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 11:05:08
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1845239
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

monkey skipper said:


dv said:

monkey skipper said:

Fish Have ‘Talked’ For 155 Million Years, And Now You Can Hear Their ‘Voices’

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/fish-have-talked-for-155-million-years-and-now-you-can-hear-their-voices/ar-AATupMs?ocid=msedgntp

https://youtu.be/gFNEA93qFL4

https://youtu.be/RZttZqoVLU8

All manner of croaks, chirps, and deep trombone moans permeate Earth’s waters, just like the cacophony of sounds that fill its forest air. For example, reefs are surprisingly noisy places, and many of the noisemakers are fish.

“We’ve known for a long time that some fish make sounds, but fish sounds were always perceived as rare oddities,’‘ said Cornell University ecologist Aaron Rice.

It was likely assumed fish relied primarily on other means of communication, from color signals and body language to electricity. But recent discoveries have demonstrated fish even have dawn and dusk choruses, just like birds.

“They’ve probably been overlooked because fishes are not easily heard or seen, and the science of underwater acoustic communication has primarily focused on whales and dolphins,” said Cornell evolutionary neuroscientist Andrew Bass.

“But fishes have voices too.”

And some sound like the most magnificent foghorn:

Scouring records of anatomical descriptions, sound recordings, and vocal accounts, Rice and colleagues identified several physiological features that allow the ray-finned (Actinopterygii) group of fishes to make these noises without vocal cords. This group contains more than 34,000 currently living species.

“They can grind their teeth or make movement noise in the water, and we do see a number of specializations that are involved,” Rice told Syfy Wire.

“Probably the most common adaptation are muscles associated with swim bladders. In fact, the swim bladder muscles of the toadfish are the fastest contracting vertebrate skeletal muscles. These are high-performing adaptations.”

Of 175 families of fishes, two-thirds were likely to communicate with sound – much more talkative fish than the one-fifth previously estimated. Analysis suggests these vocal communications may have evolved independently at least 33 times in fishes. Clearly, fish have some important things to say.

What’s more, fish-speak appeared around 155 million years ago, which interestingly happens to be around the same time evidence suggests land animals with backbones first vocalized too – animals we eventually evolved from.

“Our results strongly support the hypothesis that soniferous behavior is ancient,” the team wrote in their paper. “Together, these findings highlight the strong selection pressure favoring the evolution of this character across vertebrate lineages.”

Some fish groups were chattier than others, with toadfish and catfish amongst the most verbose groups. However, Rice and the team caution that their analysis only shows the presence of vocalizing fish rather than the presence of absence – it may just be that we just haven’t listened hard enough to hear the other groups out yet.

As for what they’re trying to say, fish are probably jabbering about food, warnings of danger, social happenings (including territorial arguments), and of course, sex. But who knows what other fishy secrets they may recite!

Some researchers have even been trying to use fish songs as underwater siren calls to beckon fish back to rejuvenating coral reefs.

“Fish do everything. They breathe air, they fly, they eat anything and everything – at this point, nothing would surprise me about fishes and the sounds that they can make,” said Rice.

This research was published in Ichthyology & Herpetology.

Well this is very interesting and something I’ve not heard of.

I thought to myself a few moments ago , sounds travels so well through water it makes sense that there would be more than whale songs going on … to communicate

this might be interesting if developed further -

“ Some researchers have even been trying to use fish songs as underwater siren calls to beckon fish back to rejuvenating coral reefs.”

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 11:05:43
From: furious
ID: 1845240
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

Okay, so if they talk so much, when fishing people do catch and release why don’t they warn their friends? Or maybe they do and they get treated like people who claim to have been abducted by aliens…

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 11:06:32
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1845241
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

furious said:


Okay, so if they talk so much, when fishing people do catch and release why don’t they warn their friends? Or maybe they do and they get treated like people who claim to have been abducted by aliens…

That might be true and funny (to me to consider further)

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 11:12:26
From: dv
ID: 1845243
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

Surprising that such a little fish can make a low noise

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 11:15:34
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1845248
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

dv said:


Surprising that such a little fish can make a low noise

I wonder if evolution puts each fish on it’s own bandwidth like a radio otherwise how would they distinguish between the chaos of sounds but then again humans have a limit to what frequency of sound we can hear…so ….

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 11:16:07
From: dv
ID: 1845250
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

monkey skipper said:


dv said:

Surprising that such a little fish can make a low noise

I wonder if evolution puts each fish on it’s own bandwidth like a radio otherwise how would they distinguish between the chaos of sounds but then again humans have a limit to what frequency of sound we can hear…so ….

Perhaps it is more about distinctive patterns, like boids

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 13:44:29
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1845347
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

Most creatures big and small, on land or in the water communicate with each other if only to tell the other to bugger off. So not only fish but everything else talks too.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 14:00:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1845368
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

Thanks ms. Interesting.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 16:15:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1845467
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

PermeateFree said:

Most creatures big and small, on land or in the water communicate with each other if only to tell the other to bugger off. So not only fish but everything else talks too.

so if we’re talking information transfer then anything that exists talks yeah

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 16:32:39
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1845482
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

> Scouring records of anatomical descriptions, sound recordings, and vocal accounts, Rice and colleagues identified several physiological features that allow the ray-finned group of fishes to make these noises without vocal cords.

Nice.

> “Probably the most common adaptation are muscles associated with swim bladders. Of 175 families of fishes, two-thirds were likely to communicate with sound – much more talkative fish than the one-fifth previously estimated.

That’s about right. I think aboiut 1/5 was the amount previously estimated.

> Fish-speak appeared around 155 million years ago

When was that? Late Jurassic.
I would have guessed earlier.

> Some fish groups were chattier than others, with toadfish and catfish amongst the most verbose groups. However, Rice and the team caution that their analysis only shows the presence of vocalizing fish rather than the presence of absence – it may just be that we just haven’t listened hard enough to hear the other groups out yet.

Sound good to me.

> Some researchers have even been trying to use fish songs as underwater siren calls to beckon fish back to rejuvenating coral reefs.

More likely to have the opposite effect. But well worth trying. Try other sounds as well, such a breaking waves of differing intensities.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/02/2022 18:26:35
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1845534
Subject: re: Fish Have 'Talked' For 155 Million Years

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

Most creatures big and small, on land or in the water communicate with each other if only to tell the other to bugger off. So not only fish but everything else talks too.

so if we’re talking information transfer then anything that exists talks yeah

No need for sound or other means of communication to be vocal. I don’t think the article was inferring fish get together to discuss their philosophical discoveries.

Reply Quote