Each year at this time I get disoriented.

At noon, the Sun should be north, approximately.
Well, it isn’t.
In Melbourne, 12 midday last week, the Sun was exactly NE, a full 45 degrees out from where it should be.

There are several factors here:

• Daylight saving, 12 midday is actually 11 am.
• Magnetic vs true north, Melbourne streets are oriented on magnetic north.
• Longitude difference between city time and Sun time. Melbourne is off-centre for the time zone.
• Analemma

But I don’t see how these four small errors can add up to the sun being a full 45 degrees out of position.

mollwollfumble said:

Each year at this time I get disoriented.

At noon, the Sun should be north, approximately.
Well, it isn’t.
In Melbourne, 12 midday last week, the Sun was exactly NE, a full 45 degrees out from where it should be.

There are several factors here:

• Daylight saving, 12 midday is actually 11 am.
• Magnetic vs true north, Melbourne streets are oriented on magnetic north.
• Longitude difference between city time and Sun time. Melbourne is off-centre for the time zone.
• Analemma

But I don’t see how these four small errors can add up to the sun being a full 45 degrees out of position.

Did you stick two sticks in the ground and use a protractor?

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/melbourne.html

JudgeMental said:

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/melbourne.html

It looks like molly’s observation is correct.

Michael V said:

JudgeMental said:

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/melbourne.html

It looks like molly’s observation is correct.

Bound to happen eventually.

Obliquity of the ecliptic

Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

JudgeMental said:

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/melbourne.html

It looks like molly’s observation is correct.

Bound to happen eventually.

Even à broken sundial is uh

only Mol would tell the sun it’s wrong…

🤣

Unusual sunset too.

sunrise.

Michael V said:

JudgeMental said:

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/melbourne.html

It looks like molly’s observation is correct.

Thanks Judge. North East at 12 O’clock.

The sun is in the sky, where it belongs.

Bubblecar said:

The sun is in the sky, where it belongs.

Bubblecar said:

Bubblecar said:

The sun is in the sky, where it belongs.

but doesn’t it shine out of our blastopores

mollwollfumble said:

Michael V said:

JudgeMental said:

https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/melbourne.html

It looks like molly’s observation is correct.

Thanks Judge. North East at 12 O’clock.

So the Sun is due north at 1:30 pm
of which 1 hour is daylight saving
and 1/2 an hour is because Melbourne is nearly 1/2 an hour off the centre of longitude of the time zone.

And that 1 1/2 hours is doubled from 1.5*360/24 = 22.5 degrees to 45 degrees because of the latitude relative to the Tropic of Capricorn.

The few degrees difference between true and magnetic north being negligible.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Michael V said:

It looks like molly’s observation is correct.

Thanks Judge. North East at 12 O’clock.

So the Sun is due north at 1:30 pm
of which 1 hour is daylight saving
and 1/2 an hour is because Melbourne is nearly 1/2 an hour off the centre of longitude of the time zone.

And that 1 1/2 hours is doubled from 1.5*360/24 = 22.5 degrees to 45 degrees because of the latitude relative to the Tropic of Capricorn.

The few degrees difference between true and magnetic north being negligible.

I’m glad you worked that out without having to resort to Flat-Earthism.

BTW, I looked at the lines for December and June solstice, and thought how come the line now is so close to the Winter solstice?

Well I’ve only lived S. of the Equator for 38 years. Not used to these inverted seasons yet :)

“In Melbourne, 12 midday last week, the Sun was exactly NE, a full 45 degrees out from where it should be.”

Then it’s not “midday”

“So the Sun is due north at 1:30 pm
of which 1 hour is daylight saving
and 1/2 an hour is because Melbourne is nearly 1/2 an hour off the centre of longitude of the time zone.”

This is why I think daylight saving is stupid. At Midday, the sun is due North. That’s what midday is. Pretending it’s not due North at midday is just silly.

It should also be noted that solar noon varies throughout the year due to the eccentricity of the earth’s orbit around the sun.