Date: 14/02/2022 22:00:56
From: Woodie
ID: 1848672
Subject: Ukrania Politics
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?
Woodie said:
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?
no. It will stay on the map regardless of what happens.
Woodie said:
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?
Wednesday, apparently.
Woodie said:
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?
According to some English woman our mate Mandy Vanstone was talking to this afternoon, he’s a damn good bloke, and wouldn’t dream of doing any such thing.
Peak Warming Man said:
Woodie said:
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?Wednesday, apparently.
About tea time?
Woodie said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Woodie said:
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?Wednesday, apparently.
About tea time?
Yeah, that’d be ok.
Woodie said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Woodie said:
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?Wednesday, apparently.
About tea time?
Im Guessing 19 April or March, 19 April 1783 would be the anniversary of the first annexation, the last one was March 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Empire
The territory of Crimea, previously controlled by the Crimean Khanate, was annexed by the Russian Empire on 19 April 1783. The period before the annexation was marked by Russian interference in Crimean affairs, a series of revolts by Crimean Tatars, and Ottoman ambivalence. The annexation began 134 years of rule by the Russian Empire, which ended with the Russian Revolution of 1917.
After changing hands several times during the Russian Civil War, Crimea was part of the Russian SFSR from 1921, and then was transferred to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954, which became independent Ukraine in 1991. The Russian Federation annexed Crimea in March 2014, re-establishing Russian rule of the peninsula, though that annexation is not internationally recognised.
Woodie said:
Will Vlad blow Ukrainia off the map?
I would say not. Russia would have nothing to gain from that. I ain’t no expert but more likely outcomes seem to be:
a) nothing. Long lasting state of tension and sabre rattling.
b) Invasion and occupation of the areas already under de facto Russian control in the Donbas.
c) Invasion and installation of puppet government.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-15/putin-russian-power-ukraine-border-world-war-unimaginable/100830264
oh well at least a nice little hot world war should reduce life expectancy more than a mild head cold ever did
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-15/us-moving-embassy-out-of-kyiv-to-lviv/100830148
Interestingly, the NE corner of the Ukraine has always been part of Russia.
Until it was sliced off when the USSR split up.
mollwollfumble said:
Interestingly, the NE corner of the Ukraine has always been part of Russia.Until it was sliced off when the USSR split up.
Gosh, that must have really shocked the Russians, what with them being completely innocent of the concept of ‘annexing someone else’s territory’.
When Biden says “They are mounting a false flag operation”, he means “The Pentagon”.
mollwollfumble said:
When Biden says “They are mounting a false flag operation”, he means “The Pentagon”.
No. The Russians and the Chinese are cunts and can’t be trusted to truthfully tell you what day of the week it is.
Secondly, the US wins whatever happens in the Ukraine. Russia will lose whatever option they take. If they don’t invade they lose face, if they do invade they face economic collapse. Whatever happens the EU and the US will become more closely aligned.
mollwollfumble said:
When Biden says “They are mounting a false flag operation”, he means “The Pentagon”.
You prooved your worth with that maths problem early today but why th
mollwollfumble said:
When Biden says “They are mounting a false flag operation”, he means “The Pentagon”.
You proved your worth with that maths problem early today but why the goddamn fuck are you such a moron about everything else? THE FORUM NEEDS TO KNOW!
mollwollfumble said:
When Biden says “They are mounting a false flag operation”, he means “The Pentagon”.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-18/the-us-says-russia-is-creating-a-false-flag-operation-ukraine/100841688
A false-flag operation is a staged attack were the source of responsibility is disguised or fabricated in order to pin blame on another party.
It’s a form of propaganda or disinformation that has been used for centuries as a pretext for war.
It can take the form of an elaborate military attack, where one side may dress in the uniforms of their enemies, drive the same vehicles or use the same weapons, firing them from positions that will make the attack appear to have been carried out by the other side.
Nazi soldiers were accused of carrying out numerous false-flag operations during World War II.
Tau.Neutrino said:
mollwollfumble said:
When Biden says “They are mounting a false flag operation”, he means “The Pentagon”.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-18/the-us-says-russia-is-creating-a-false-flag-operation-ukraine/100841688
A false-flag operation is a staged attack were the source of responsibility is disguised or fabricated in order to pin blame on another party.
It’s a form of propaganda or disinformation that has been used for centuries as a pretext for war.
It can take the form of an elaborate military attack, where one side may dress in the uniforms of their enemies, drive the same vehicles or use the same weapons, firing them from positions that will make the attack appear to have been carried out by the other side.
Nazi soldiers were accused of carrying out numerous false-flag operations during World War II.
Look up ‘the Gleiwitz incident’.
Russian-backed rebels evacuate east Ukraine residents
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/russian-backed-rebels-evacuate-east-ukraine-residents-20220219-p59xw3.html
Witty Rejoinder said:
Russian-backed rebels evacuate east Ukraine residents
It’s hilarious that Europe is now a proxy war between Capitalist CHINA and the DPRNA, well at least for certain values of hilarious ¡
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-21/ukraine-crisis-why-does-china-remain-silent/100835804
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/20/europe/analysis-russia-ukraine-crisis-intl/index.html
But Sunday also offered Russia a potential opening for de-escalation. After all, massive joint Russian military exercises in Belarus were slated to end on February 20, and the Kremlin had suggested Russian troops would go home after they finished, without giving concrete dates. Belarusian Foreign Minister Vladimir Makei even said “not a single” Russian solider or piece of Russian military equipment will remain in Belarus once the drills ended.
Instead, Russia blew past another potential off-ramp in the crisis. In a Sunday statement released by the Belarusian military on Telegram, Belarusian Defense Minister Lt. Gen. Viktor Khrenin said the Russians and Belarusians would continue their drills, saying the “increase in military activity near the external borders of the Union State” — Russia and Belarus — and the heightened tensions in Donbas necessitated the decision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
The Union State, officially the Union State of Russia and Belarus, is a supranational organisation consisting of Russia and Belarus, with the stated aim of deepening the relationship between the two states through integration in economic and defence policy. Originally, the Union State aimed to create a confederation, however, both countries currently retain their independence. The Union State is based on a previous international treaty between Russia and Belarus made on 2 April 1997. Although it consists of only Russia and Belarus, other countries are allowed to join. The supranational union is ruled through the Supreme State Council and other governing bodies. The current president of the Supreme State Council of the Union is Alexander Lukashenko, who has held the position since 2000. The present goal of the Union State mainly focuses on economic integration, taxation, and integration of defense and intelligence apparatuses.
dv said:
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/20/europe/analysis-russia-ukraine-crisis-intl/index.htmlBut Sunday also offered Russia a potential opening for de-escalation. After all, massive joint Russian military exercises in Belarus were slated to end on February 20, and the Kremlin had suggested Russian troops would go home after they finished, without giving concrete dates. Belarusian Foreign Minister Vladimir Makei even said “not a single” Russian solider or piece of Russian military equipment will remain in Belarus once the drills ended.
Instead, Russia blew past another potential off-ramp in the crisis. In a Sunday statement released by the Belarusian military on Telegram, Belarusian Defense Minister Lt. Gen. Viktor Khrenin said the Russians and Belarusians would continue their drills, saying the “increase in military activity near the external borders of the Union State” — Russia and Belarus — and the heightened tensions in Donbas necessitated the decision.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
The Union State, officially the Union State of Russia and Belarus, is a supranational organisation consisting of Russia and Belarus, with the stated aim of deepening the relationship between the two states through integration in economic and defence policy. Originally, the Union State aimed to create a confederation, however, both countries currently retain their independence. The Union State is based on a previous international treaty between Russia and Belarus made on 2 April 1997. Although it consists of only Russia and Belarus, other countries are allowed to join. The supranational union is ruled through the Supreme State Council and other governing bodies. The current president of the Supreme State Council of the Union is Alexander Lukashenko, who has held the position since 2000. The present goal of the Union State mainly focuses on economic integration, taxation, and integration of defense and intelligence apparatuses.
I assume US intelligence is aware of Putin’s intentions. He seems to be doing some final sorting of Russian nationalist support within Ukraine before moving in.
Not sure Putin will put at risk his personal fortune just to return Ukraine and its peoples to Mother Russia…
He seems more the pragmatist than the ideologue.
diddly-squat said:
Not sure Putin will put at risk his personal fortune just to return Ukraine and its peoples to Mother Russia…
He seems more the pragmatist than the ideologue.
Far right nationalism doesn’t require much ideology, just a psycho bully mindset, which he certainly has. He wants to go down as a Great Russian Leader, which traditionally means being an autocratic imperialist.
Putin has often bemoaned the loss of Russian power in Eastern Europe and presumably expects invading Ukraine will restore Russia’s “superpower” status in the eyes of the world.
Bubblecar said:
diddly-squat said:Not sure Putin will put at risk his personal fortune just to return Ukraine and its peoples to Mother Russia…
He seems more the pragmatist than the ideologue.
Far right nationalism doesn’t require much ideology, just a psycho bully mindset, which he certainly has. He wants to go down as a Great Russian Leader, which traditionally means being an autocratic imperialist.
Putin has often bemoaned the loss of Russian power in Eastern Europe and presumably expects invading Ukraine will restore Russia’s “superpower” status in the eyes of the world.
Putin is not an ideologue.. he has amassed, what is most likely, the single largest personal fortune of any human on the planet.. he coverts power and money, and if you want to understand his politics you need look no further than that.
diddly-squat said:
Bubblecar said:
diddly-squat said:Not sure Putin will put at risk his personal fortune just to return Ukraine and its peoples to Mother Russia…
He seems more the pragmatist than the ideologue.
Far right nationalism doesn’t require much ideology, just a psycho bully mindset, which he certainly has. He wants to go down as a Great Russian Leader, which traditionally means being an autocratic imperialist.
Putin has often bemoaned the loss of Russian power in Eastern Europe and presumably expects invading Ukraine will restore Russia’s “superpower” status in the eyes of the world.
Putin is not an ideologue.. he has amassed, what is most likely, the single largest personal fortune of any human on the planet.. he coverts power and money, and if you want to understand his politics you need look no further than that.
Yeah, I just agreed with you that he’s not an ideologue, and explained that “ideology” isn’t necessary to be a Russian strongman.
By some estimates Putin’s de facto wealth is about 16% of Russian GDP.
dv said:
By some estimates Putin’s de facto wealth is about 16% of Russian GDP.
Another factor would be his need to continually reinforce his personal security, which means keeping lots of other powerful individuals and institutions onside.
Invading Ukraine may help to do that.
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
By some estimates Putin’s de facto wealth is about 16% of Russian GDP.
Another factor would be his need to continually reinforce his personal security, which means keeping lots of other powerful individuals and institutions onside.
Invading Ukraine may help to do that.
and shit it is not as though annexing Crimea sent him broke.
Betoota Advocate:
‘Nation That Took 10 Years To Roll Out Copper Wire NBN Offers Cyber Warfare Support To Ukraine’
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
By some estimates Putin’s de facto wealth is about 16% of Russian GDP.
Another factor would be his need to continually reinforce his personal security, which means keeping lots of other powerful individuals and institutions onside.
Invading Ukraine may help to do that.
when Putin came into power he essentially jailed key Oligarchs and threated to leave them there unless they submitted to his shake down politics.. money buys a lot of ‘help’, but I can only imagine there is a line of people around the block that wouldn’t mind seeing him toppled.
captain_spalding said:
Betoota Advocate:‘Nation That Took 10 Years To Roll Out Copper Wire NBN Offers Cyber Warfare Support To Ukraine’
Heh.
I would think that what Australia could really do is give them a good deal on LNG…
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Betoota Advocate:‘Nation That Took 10 Years To Roll Out Copper Wire NBN Offers Cyber Warfare Support To Ukraine’
Heh.
I would think that what Australia could really do is give them a good deal on LNG…
And Europe, too.
Michael V said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Betoota Advocate:‘Nation That Took 10 Years To Roll Out Copper Wire NBN Offers Cyber Warfare Support To Ukraine’
Heh.
I would think that what Australia could really do is give them a good deal on LNG…
And Europe, too.
I guess Europe is what I really meant. Their dependence on Russian gas is a supranational security risk.
diddly-squat said:
when Putin came into power he essentially jailed key Oligarchs and threated to leave them there unless they submitted to his shake down politics.. money buys a lot of ‘help’, but I can only imagine there is a line of people around the block that wouldn’t mind seeing him toppled.
Maybe yes, maybe no.
He’s been there a long time now, and a lot of those people will have found their niches in the game, marked out their turf, and come to an arrangement.
It may be better to leave the devil you know in the Kremlin, rather than have to go through it all again with one you don’t.
diddly-squat said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
By some estimates Putin’s de facto wealth is about 16% of Russian GDP.
Another factor would be his need to continually reinforce his personal security, which means keeping lots of other powerful individuals and institutions onside.
Invading Ukraine may help to do that.
when Putin came into power he essentially jailed key Oligarchs and threated to leave them there unless they submitted to his shake down politics.. money buys a lot of ‘help’, but I can only imagine there is a line of people around the block that wouldn’t mind seeing him toppled.
As a nationalist autocrat (or even just as a gangster posing as one) he can’t just rely on talk and paid allies, he has to deliver what’s expected of him by the armed forces (and the real “ideologues”) in order to maintain his position. Many of his enemies are also right-wing nationalists.
Has Ukrainia been moved a little closer to Vlad Pootin’s drinks cabinet yet?
Michael V said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Betoota Advocate:‘Nation That Took 10 Years To Roll Out Copper Wire NBN Offers Cyber Warfare Support To Ukraine’
Heh.
I would think that what Australia could really do is give them a good deal on LNG…
And Europe, too.
OI !!! What about a good LNG deal for ourselves, hey what but!!
Leave Putin in no doubt: Russia will be economically crippled – and he may be tried for war crimes
We Ukrainians are ready to fight. But war can still be averted if the west shows the Kremlin what Russia has to lose
Andriy Zagorodnyuk is a former Ukrainian defence minister
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/20/putin-russia-war-crimes-west-ukrainians
Bubblecar said:
Leave Putin in no doubt: Russia will be economically crippled – and he may be tried for war crimesWe Ukrainians are ready to fight. But war can still be averted if the west shows the Kremlin what Russia has to lose
Andriy Zagorodnyuk is a former Ukrainian defence minister
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/20/putin-russia-war-crimes-west-ukrainians
Putin’s ego war.
Bubblecar said:
Leave Putin in no doubt: Russia will be economically crippled – and he may be tried for war crimesWe Ukrainians are ready to fight. But war can still be averted if the west shows the Kremlin what Russia has to lose
Andriy Zagorodnyuk is a former Ukrainian defence minister
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/20/putin-russia-war-crimes-west-ukrainians
“… if the west shows the Kremlin what Russia has to lose’
Yeah, i’d be interested to see if the west could do that, too.
In real terms, Putin has nothing to lose.
If Russia attacks Ukraine, the rest of the world will wring it’s hands and say oh, woe, but do nothing. If it goes well for Putin, it goes well,. If Russia loses (ha!) who’s going to do anything about it?
And, at the end of it all, Europe will still be buying Russian gas.
captain_spalding said:
And, at the end of it all, Europe will still be buying Russian gas.
Not necessarily.
Vlad apparently is sending troops in, having decreed overnight that Eastern Ukraine areas are independent republics.
Looking bad.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-22/russia-ukraine-border-tensions-donetsk-luhansk-independence/100847282
should we fill up the car today before prices shoot past $4.75 /L or whatever that EV breakeven point was meant to be
SCIENCE said:
should we fill up the car today before prices shoot past $4.75 /L or whatever that EV breakeven point was meant to be
Definitely.
Michael V said:
Vlad apparently is sending troops in, having decreed overnight that Eastern Ukraine areas are independent republics.Looking bad.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-22/russia-ukraine-border-tensions-donetsk-luhansk-independence/100847282
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
mollwollfumble said:
Michael V said:
Vlad apparently is sending troops in, having decreed overnight that Eastern Ukraine areas are independent republics.Looking bad.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-22/russia-ukraine-border-tensions-donetsk-luhansk-independence/100847282
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
And we have regression to the stupid.