Date: 23/02/2022 00:44:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851597
Subject: Russia Invades Ukraine
It’s underway, BTW.
Ukraine crisis live: Germany shelves Russian gas pipeline after Putin orders troops over border
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/22/ukraine-russia-latest-live-news-updates-crisis-putin-biden-zelenskiy-kyiv-kiev-russian-invasion-border-threat
Date: 23/02/2022 00:54:13
From: dv
ID: 1851598
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
It’s underway, BTW.
Ukraine crisis live: Germany shelves Russian gas pipeline after Putin orders troops over border
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/22/ukraine-russia-latest-live-news-updates-crisis-putin-biden-zelenskiy-kyiv-kiev-russian-invasion-border-threat
So I guess the question now is will their “peacekeeping” operation stop at the current contact lines between Ukrainian and separatist forces, or will it extend to the entire territory claimed by the republics it just recognised?
Date: 23/02/2022 10:22:30
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1851639
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
> Vlad apparently is sending troops in, having decreed overnight that Eastern Ukraine areas are independent republics.
> Looking bad.
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-22/russia-ukraine-border-tensions-donetsk-luhansk-independence/100847282
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
Date: 23/02/2022 11:11:50
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1851654
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This is not the invasion.
Over.
Date: 23/02/2022 11:26:05
From: Michael V
ID: 1851665
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Michael V said:
> Vlad apparently is sending troops in, having decreed overnight that Eastern Ukraine areas are independent republics.
> Looking bad.
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-22/russia-ukraine-border-tensions-donetsk-luhansk-independence/100847282
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
Gosh!
Where did you get all that information from?
Date: 23/02/2022 11:32:28
From: Woodie
ID: 1851667
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
This is not the invasion.
Over.
Nup…….. but ** THIS** is the invasion.

Date: 23/02/2022 11:34:39
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1851669
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Peak Warming Man said:
This is not the invasion.
Over.
Nup…….. but ** THIS** is the invasion.

Yeah that’s a proper one.
Date: 23/02/2022 11:41:22
From: dv
ID: 1851675
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
This is not the invasion.
Over.
Ref
Date: 23/02/2022 11:43:35
From: Michael V
ID: 1851680
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
This is not the invasion.
Over.
Ref
Vlad The Impaler.
Date: 23/02/2022 11:56:40
From: roughbarked
ID: 1851688
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
This is not the invasion.
Over.
Ref
Invasion? Incursion? Operation? Understanding the legal grey zones of Putin’s moves on Ukraine
By Stan Grant
Date: 23/02/2022 13:37:19
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1851729
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Any word on how the fighting is going, have the Russians taken much territory since yesterday and are the causalities heavy?
Date: 23/02/2022 14:05:53
From: Woodie
ID: 1851741
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Any word on how the fighting is going, have the Russians taken much territory since yesterday and are the causalities heavy?
I believe the headlines will read:
“Small squabble in Eastern Europe. Not many dead”
and
“Sanctions imposed. Three rich ruskies get a bit miffed”.
Date: 23/02/2022 14:18:18
From: Kingy
ID: 1851744
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Any word on how the fighting is going, have the Russians taken much territory since yesterday and are the causalities heavy?
https://liveuamap.com/
Date: 23/02/2022 14:38:40
From: Michael V
ID: 1851753
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Any word on how the fighting is going, have the Russians taken much territory since yesterday and are the causalities heavy?
https://liveuamap.com/
Ta.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:02:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851768
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
My first thought: Moll really is a moron, it’s not just a pose.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:05:03
From: dv
ID: 1851770
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
mollwollfumble said:
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
My first thought: Moll really is a moron, it’s not just a pose.
Example of the verb form: “Mollwolfumble stans for Putin.”
Example of the noun form: “Mollwolfumble is a Putin stan.”
Date: 23/02/2022 15:09:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851772
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
mollwollfumble said:
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
My first thought: Moll really is a moron, it’s not just a pose.
Example of the verb form: “Mollwolfumble stans for Putin.”
Example of the noun form: “Mollwolfumble is a Putin stan.”
He never met a злодей he didn’t like.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:15:02
From: dv
ID: 1851773
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
From any reporting it appears the de jure Russian troops are only deployed to areas already controlled by de facto Russian troops, well behind the “line of contact”.
If they were to restrict themselves to that then at least there would not be a bloodbath and the change would be largely administrative.
But the question would be: if that was the aim, then why move 150000 troops to Belarus near Ukraine’s northern border? Hope for the best I suppose.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:17:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1851774
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
mollwollfumble said:
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
My first thought: Moll really is a moron, it’s not just a pose.
There is no indication that the Pentagon has sent ICBMs into Ukraine.
Where is the ref for that.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:19:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1851775
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
mollwollfumble said:
My first thought is “how could Russia be so stupid?”
But I nulled that, because Russia isn’t stupid. That leaves only one explanation.
The Pentagon has sent nuclear ICBMs with NATO into the Ukraine. It’s the Cuban missile crisis situation in reverse.
Russia has to act to stop the installation of those ICBMs in silos adjacent to its border.
From now on, given the open declaration of war, we can’t trust anything said over the news media because the Western news media is now owned by the military.
My first thought: Moll really is a moron, it’s not just a pose.
There is no indication that the Pentagon has sent ICBMs into Ukraine.
Where is the ref for that.
There is none.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:20:30
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1851776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 23/02/2022 15:23:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 1851777
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
FWIW …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
Yeah. I’m sure most of us knew that already.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:23:57
From: dv
ID: 1851778
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
FWIW …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
http://uawire.org/zelensky-ukraine-may-reconsider-its-nuclear-status
I wonder whether they kept some..
Date: 23/02/2022 15:25:07
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851779
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
From any reporting it appears the de jure Russian troops are only deployed to areas already controlled by de facto Russian troops, well behind the “line of contact”.
If they were to restrict themselves to that then at least there would not be a bloodbath and the change would be largely administrative.
But the question would be: if that was the aim, then why move 150000 troops to Belarus near Ukraine’s northern border? Hope for the best I suppose.
As long as Mr Hitler just takes the Sudetenland, the change will be merely administrative.
Date: 23/02/2022 15:45:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1851790
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 23/02/2022 15:48:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851792
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Spiny Norman said:
FWIW …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
http://uawire.org/zelensky-ukraine-may-reconsider-its-nuclear-status
I wonder whether they kept some..
Unlikely.
But I remember my Dad thinking they were very foolish to get rid of them.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:06:22
From: dv
ID: 1851808
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Spiny Norman said:
FWIW …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
http://uawire.org/zelensky-ukraine-may-reconsider-its-nuclear-status
I wonder whether they kept some..
Unlikely.
But I remember my Dad thinking they were very foolish to get rid of them.
yes
Date: 23/02/2022 16:06:36
From: dv
ID: 1851809
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
From any reporting it appears the de jure Russian troops are only deployed to areas already controlled by de facto Russian troops, well behind the “line of contact”.
If they were to restrict themselves to that then at least there would not be a bloodbath and the change would be largely administrative.
But the question would be: if that was the aim, then why move 150000 troops to Belarus near Ukraine’s northern border? Hope for the best I suppose.
As long as Mr Hitler just takes the Sudetenland, the change will be merely administrative.
quite
Date: 23/02/2022 16:09:10
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
http://uawire.org/zelensky-ukraine-may-reconsider-its-nuclear-status
I wonder whether they kept some..
Unlikely.
But I remember my Dad thinking they were very foolish to get rid of them.
yes
That only makes sense if you think Ukraine would launch nukes to repel a land invasion from Russia.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:13:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 1851812
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Unlikely.
But I remember my Dad thinking they were very foolish to get rid of them.
yes
That only makes sense if you think Ukraine would launch nukes to repel a land invasion from Russia.
It seems such a waste of money misdirected, all this posturing and flexing of military muscles.
They could look after their children and build a better future instead.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:13:56
From: Kingy
ID: 1851813
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
From any reporting it appears the de jure Russian troops are only deployed to areas already controlled by de facto Russian troops, well behind the “line of contact”.
If they were to restrict themselves to that then at least there would not be a bloodbath and the change would be largely administrative.
But the question would be: if that was the aim, then why move 150000 troops to Belarus near Ukraine’s northern border? Hope for the best I suppose.
That would deter the Ukes from sending too many troops to the Eastern Front, as they would be needed to defend the capital. It’s a cross between brinksmanship and chess.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:15:21
From: Kingy
ID: 1851814
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
yes
That only makes sense if you think Ukraine would launch nukes to repel a land invasion from Russia.
It seems such a waste of money misdirected, all this posturing and flexing of military muscles.
They could look after their children and build a better future instead.
Or they could get their thugs to beat up the weak kid, steal his stuff, and buy an ever better future.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:16:07
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1851815
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
From any reporting it appears the de jure Russian troops are only deployed to areas already controlled by de facto Russian troops, well behind the “line of contact”.
If they were to restrict themselves to that then at least there would not be a bloodbath and the change would be largely administrative.
But the question would be: if that was the aim, then why move 150000 troops to Belarus near Ukraine’s northern border? Hope for the best I suppose.
That would deter the Ukes from sending too many troops to the Eastern Front, as they would be needed to defend the capital. It’s a cross between brinksmanship and chess.
No one want’s to go to the Eastern Front, no one.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:21:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1851816
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
No one wants to go to the Eastern Front, no one.
An awful lot of ghosts there.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:45:37
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851824
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Unlikely.
But I remember my Dad thinking they were very foolish to get rid of them.
yes
That only makes sense if you think Ukraine would launch nukes to repel a land invasion from Russia.
Launching nukes wouldn’t repel a Russian land invasion, but it would ensure that Russia pays a very high price.
Thus it would have obvious deterrent value.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:49:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1851825
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 23/02/2022 16:49:26
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1851826
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
yes
That only makes sense if you think Ukraine would launch nukes to repel a land invasion from Russia.
Launching nukes wouldn’t repel a Russian land invasion, but it would ensure that Russia pays a very high price.
Thus it would have obvious deterrent value.
There would have to be severe reprisal from several countries if it ever came to that, from either side.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:50:31
From: dv
ID: 1851827
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
yes
That only makes sense if you think Ukraine would launch nukes to repel a land invasion from Russia.
Launching nukes wouldn’t repel a Russian land invasion, but it would ensure that Russia pays a very high price.
Thus it would have obvious deterrent value.
It’s the basically the same question about why anyone has nuclear weapons. Why does China have nuclear weapons? Do they really think they could beat the USA in a no-holds-barred stoush? Probably not, but if it came to it they’d put so much hurt on the USA that it is enough to make the latter hesitate about initiating a full-on confontation.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:52:39
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851828
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
That only makes sense if you think Ukraine would launch nukes to repel a land invasion from Russia.
Launching nukes wouldn’t repel a Russian land invasion, but it would ensure that Russia pays a very high price.
Thus it would have obvious deterrent value.
It’s the basically the same question about why anyone has nuclear weapons. Why does China have nuclear weapons? Do they really think they could beat the USA in a no-holds-barred stoush? Probably not, but if it came to it they’d put so much hurt on the USA that it is enough to make the latter hesitate about initiating a full-on confontation.
I don’t think never-to-be used nukes would change Putin’s mindset.
Date: 23/02/2022 16:54:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851829
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Launching nukes wouldn’t repel a Russian land invasion, but it would ensure that Russia pays a very high price.
Thus it would have obvious deterrent value.
It’s the basically the same question about why anyone has nuclear weapons. Why does China have nuclear weapons? Do they really think they could beat the USA in a no-holds-barred stoush? Probably not, but if it came to it they’d put so much hurt on the USA that it is enough to make the latter hesitate about initiating a full-on confontation.
I don’t think never-to-be used nukes would change Putin’s mindset.
In practice, they would probably be used.
What makes you think human beings are so nice?
Date: 23/02/2022 17:08:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851831
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
It’s the basically the same question about why anyone has nuclear weapons. Why does China have nuclear weapons? Do they really think they could beat the USA in a no-holds-barred stoush? Probably not, but if it came to it they’d put so much hurt on the USA that it is enough to make the latter hesitate about initiating a full-on confontation.
I don’t think never-to-be used nukes would change Putin’s mindset.
In practice, they would probably be used.
What makes you think human beings are so nice?
Not nice. Just self-preservation. I’d wager Putin would think that Ukrainians would acquiesce to an occupation with 100,000 deaths in a land invasion than 40 million deaths in a nuclear exchange. Nukes are suited for massive retaliation and not very useful for preventing military adventurism. Neither side in Kashmir has deigned to use nukes while engaging in a war that has all the hallmarks of a great-power confrontation.
Date: 23/02/2022 17:15:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851834
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I don’t think never-to-be used nukes would change Putin’s mindset.
In practice, they would probably be used.
What makes you think human beings are so nice?
Not nice. Just self-preservation. I’d wager Putin would think that Ukrainians would acquiesce to an occupation with 100,000 deaths in a land invasion than 40 million deaths in a nuclear exchange. Nukes are suited for massive retaliation and not very useful for preventing military adventurism. Neither side in Kashmir has deigned to use nukes while engaging in a war that has all the hallmarks of a great-power confrontation.
Ukraine, with no military allies, would have no hope of defeating a full-on Russian invasion. Thus the Ukrainian military would decide they’ve lost anyway, so if armed with nuclear weapons, would almost certainly ensure that Russia pays a very high price for its victory.
And Putin, being a complete arsehole, is likely to believe that most other people are also complete arseholes. I can’t see him playing these games against a nuclear-armed Ukraine.
Date: 23/02/2022 17:21:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851837
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Take Taiwan. If NK is any guide Taiwan could very easily developed nukes to make a Chinese invasion reason enough to make coastal Fujian hotter than the sun but the question remains would the Taiwanese leadership be prepared to annihilate millions of innocent civilians in retaliation for deaths largely from the Taiwanese military services.
Date: 23/02/2022 17:25:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851840
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Take Taiwan. If NK is any guide Taiwan could very easily developed nukes to make a Chinese invasion reason enough to make coastal Fujian hotter than the sun but the question remains would the Taiwanese leadership be prepared to annihilate millions of innocent civilians in retaliation for deaths largely from the Taiwanese military services.
Again, you’re overestimating human niceness.
In WW2 the good guys used atomic weapons against Japanese civilians, after engaging in years of mass carpet-bombing of German and Japanese cities.
To this day, Western political and military leaders defend those decisions.
You’re also possibly underestimating Ukrainian nationalism, which can be quite fanatical, especially in the west of the country.
Date: 23/02/2022 17:29:51
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851842
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Take Taiwan. If NK is any guide Taiwan could very easily developed nukes to make a Chinese invasion reason enough to make coastal Fujian hotter than the sun but the question remains would the Taiwanese leadership be prepared to annihilate millions of innocent civilians in retaliation for deaths largely from the Taiwanese military services.
Again, you’re overestimating human niceness.
In WW2 the good guys used atomic weapons against Japanese civilians, after engaging in years of mass carpet-bombing of German and Japanese cities.
To this day, Western political and military leaders defend those decisions.
You’re also possibly underestimating Ukrainian nationalism, which can be quite fanatical, especially in the west of the country.
Does not being nice make one irrational;?
Date: 23/02/2022 17:30:30
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1851843
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Ukrainians on front lines of conflict ‘fed up’, fearful and determined ahead of looming Russian invasion
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-23/ukrainians-donbas-react-russia-recognition-breakaway-states/100854020
Date: 23/02/2022 18:35:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1851872
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 23/02/2022 18:44:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1851875
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:

Zer alte Werhmacht could haff told you zat ziss would happen.
Date: 23/02/2022 19:00:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1851885
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:

Zer alte Werhmacht could haff told you zat ziss would happen.
maybe they did the wrong kind of drilling
Date: 23/02/2022 20:25:15
From: dv
ID: 1851921
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Take Taiwan. If NK is any guide Taiwan could very easily developed nukes to make a Chinese invasion reason enough to make coastal Fujian hotter than the sun but the question remains would the Taiwanese leadership be prepared to annihilate millions of innocent civilians in retaliation for deaths largely from the Taiwanese military services.
I can just repeat the comparison. The argument you are making can just as easily explain why China doesn’t need nukes and would never have them.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:27:50
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851924
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Take Taiwan. If NK is any guide Taiwan could very easily developed nukes to make a Chinese invasion reason enough to make coastal Fujian hotter than the sun but the question remains would the Taiwanese leadership be prepared to annihilate millions of innocent civilians in retaliation for deaths largely from the Taiwanese military services.
I can just repeat the comparison. The argument you are making can just as easily explain why China doesn’t need nukes and would never have them.
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:28:38
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851927
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Take Taiwan. If NK is any guide Taiwan could very easily developed nukes to make a Chinese invasion reason enough to make coastal Fujian hotter than the sun but the question remains would the Taiwanese leadership be prepared to annihilate millions of innocent civilians in retaliation for deaths largely from the Taiwanese military services.
I can just repeat the comparison. The argument you are making can just as easily explain why China doesn’t need nukes and would never have them.
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
To be brief Ukraine having nukes would mean nothing at this juncture in Eastern Europe.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:35:13
From: dv
ID: 1851934
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Take Taiwan. If NK is any guide Taiwan could very easily developed nukes to make a Chinese invasion reason enough to make coastal Fujian hotter than the sun but the question remains would the Taiwanese leadership be prepared to annihilate millions of innocent civilians in retaliation for deaths largely from the Taiwanese military services.
I can just repeat the comparison. The argument you are making can just as easily explain why China doesn’t need nukes and would never have them.
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
But they’d be completely useless to China in an armageddon. Their only potential value is as a deterrent. I doubt anyone is thinking of invading NK any time soon.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:36:20
From: dv
ID: 1851935
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
I can just repeat the comparison. The argument you are making can just as easily explain why China doesn’t need nukes and would never have them.
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
To be brief Ukraine having nukes would mean nothing at this juncture in Eastern Europe.
Succinctly, we disagree.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:36:40
From: sibeen
ID: 1851937
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
I can just repeat the comparison. The argument you are making can just as easily explain why China doesn’t need nukes and would never have them.
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
But they’d be completely useless to China in an armageddon. Their only potential value is as a deterrent. I doubt anyone is thinking of invading NK any time soon.
Not for all the tea in china.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:51:04
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851943
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
To be brief Ukraine having nukes would mean nothing at this juncture in Eastern Europe.
Succinctly, we disagree.
Glad we sorted that one out.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:55:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851944
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
There are a number of fairly small countries with nuclear weapons.
Why? Because they don’t regard their country being conquered by a more powerful country as “a small conflict”.
Date: 23/02/2022 20:58:24
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851948
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
There are a number of fairly small countries with nuclear weapons.
Why? Because they don’t regard their country being conquered by a more powerful country as “a small conflict”.
So they would invite annihilation by using nuclear weapons first?
Date: 23/02/2022 21:03:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851949
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
There are a number of fairly small countries with nuclear weapons.
Why? Because they don’t regard their country being conquered by a more powerful country as “a small conflict”.
So they would invite annihilation by using nuclear weapons first?
As I said before, if the more powerful country would defeat their country regardless, it’s the more powerful country that has more to lose.
Overrunning “weaker” countries is too expensive if it means losing many or all of your own major cities and their populations in the process of doing so, and having to deal with nuclear fallout for years afterwards.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:05:37
From: sibeen
ID: 1851950
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
There are a number of fairly small countries with nuclear weapons.
Why? Because they don’t regard their country being conquered by a more powerful country as “a small conflict”.
So they would invite annihilation by using nuclear weapons first?
With less than 10 strikes the Israelis could fuck up the middle east for generations. The Arabs know this and trying to wipe Israel off the map would probably result in exactly that.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:09:10
From: dv
ID: 1851951
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Having nukes to be used as a last resort in armageddon is not the same as using them as offensive weapons in small conflicts.
There are a number of fairly small countries with nuclear weapons.
Why? Because they don’t regard their country being conquered by a more powerful country as “a small conflict”.
So they would invite annihilation by using nuclear weapons first?
You’re missing the point. We are discussing whether there is value in Ukraine getting nuclear weapons. 8 countries have nuclear weapons that are not numerous enough to ever win a war with (ie, all but the USA and USSR): they are enough to sting badly. The question of whether they would actually ever be used is hard to discern: they are possessed as a deterrent because it is difficult to discern whether or not they’d be used in the event of invasion.
It’s also possible that Zelensky wants to apply pressure on NATO to relax their membership conditions so that Ukraine can enjoy their nuclear umbrella so that it doesn’t have to build its own.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:10:28
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851953
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
There are a number of fairly small countries with nuclear weapons.
Why? Because they don’t regard their country being conquered by a more powerful country as “a small conflict”.
So they would invite annihilation by using nuclear weapons first?
As I said before, if the more powerful country would defeat their country regardless, it’s the more powerful country that has more to lose.
Overrunning “weaker” countries is too expensive if it means losing many or all of your own major cities and their populations in the process of doing so, and having to deal with nuclear fallout for years afterwards.
I am talking specifically about this Russian aggression. I could only see a nuclear armed Ukraine using tactical nukes on the battlefield within their own borders in the knowledge that anything more would result in the total destruction of their own country. They would not in any way ‘win’ by killing tens of millions in Russia in a wider nuclear confrontation.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:13:02
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1851955
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>>The question of whether they would actually ever be used is hard to discern
And that’s their real power.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:13:03
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851956
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
There are a number of fairly small countries with nuclear weapons.
Why? Because they don’t regard their country being conquered by a more powerful country as “a small conflict”.
So they would invite annihilation by using nuclear weapons first?
You’re missing the point. We are discussing whether there is value in Ukraine getting nuclear weapons. 8 countries have nuclear weapons that are not numerous enough to ever win a war with (ie, all but the USA and USSR): they are enough to sting badly. The question of whether they would actually ever be used is hard to discern: they are possessed as a deterrent because it is difficult to discern whether or not they’d be used in the event of invasion.
That’s part of my point though. They are used as a deterrent in retaliation. Not as a means to win by using them first.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:15:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851958
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
So they would invite annihilation by using nuclear weapons first?
As I said before, if the more powerful country would defeat their country regardless, it’s the more powerful country that has more to lose.
Overrunning “weaker” countries is too expensive if it means losing many or all of your own major cities and their populations in the process of doing so, and having to deal with nuclear fallout for years afterwards.
I am talking specifically about this Russian aggression. I could only see a nuclear armed Ukraine using tactical nukes on the battlefield within their own borders in the knowledge that anything more would result in the total destruction of their own country. They would not in any way ‘win’ by killing tens of millions in Russia in a wider nuclear confrontation.
?
I’ve been pointing out, repeatedly, that they wouldn’t be using nuclear weapons to “win” – there’s no way they could win a war against Russia on their own, nuclear weapons or not.
The purpose of the nuclear weapons would be to warn them that if they seek to conquer Ukraine, although Russia would win, they would pay an obviously heavy price.
So unless they’re nuts, don’t do it. And don’t muck around with incursions that could easily escalate.
Nuclear weapons make smaller countries a much less attractive target for imperialists like Putin.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:17:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851960
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
As I said before, if the more powerful country would defeat their country regardless, it’s the more powerful country that has more to lose.
Overrunning “weaker” countries is too expensive if it means losing many or all of your own major cities and their populations in the process of doing so, and having to deal with nuclear fallout for years afterwards.
I am talking specifically about this Russian aggression. I could only see a nuclear armed Ukraine using tactical nukes on the battlefield within their own borders in the knowledge that anything more would result in the total destruction of their own country. They would not in any way ‘win’ by killing tens of millions in Russia in a wider nuclear confrontation.
?
I’ve been pointing out, repeatedly, that they wouldn’t be using nuclear weapons to “win” – there’s no way they could win a war against Russia on their own, nuclear weapons or not.
The purpose of the nuclear weapons would be to warn them that if they seek to conquer Ukraine, although Russia would win, they would pay an obviously heavy price.
So unless they’re nuts, don’t do it. And don’t muck around with incursions that could easily escalate.
Nuclear weapons make smaller countries a much less attractive target for imperialists like Putin.
Well I respectfully disagree that Ukraine would use nukes to counter a conventional invasion.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:20:06
From: dv
ID: 1851961
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I am talking specifically about this Russian aggression. I could only see a nuclear armed Ukraine using tactical nukes on the battlefield within their own borders in the knowledge that anything more would result in the total destruction of their own country. They would not in any way ‘win’ by killing tens of millions in Russia in a wider nuclear confrontation.
?
I’ve been pointing out, repeatedly, that they wouldn’t be using nuclear weapons to “win” – there’s no way they could win a war against Russia on their own, nuclear weapons or not.
The purpose of the nuclear weapons would be to warn them that if they seek to conquer Ukraine, although Russia would win, they would pay an obviously heavy price.
So unless they’re nuts, don’t do it. And don’t muck around with incursions that could easily escalate.
Nuclear weapons make smaller countries a much less attractive target for imperialists like Putin.
Well I respectfully disagree that Ukraine would use nukes to counter a conventional invasion.
I mean it’s already radioactive, they might as well…
Date: 23/02/2022 21:22:34
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851962
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I am talking specifically about this Russian aggression. I could only see a nuclear armed Ukraine using tactical nukes on the battlefield within their own borders in the knowledge that anything more would result in the total destruction of their own country. They would not in any way ‘win’ by killing tens of millions in Russia in a wider nuclear confrontation.
?
I’ve been pointing out, repeatedly, that they wouldn’t be using nuclear weapons to “win” – there’s no way they could win a war against Russia on their own, nuclear weapons or not.
The purpose of the nuclear weapons would be to warn them that if they seek to conquer Ukraine, although Russia would win, they would pay an obviously heavy price.
So unless they’re nuts, don’t do it. And don’t muck around with incursions that could easily escalate.
Nuclear weapons make smaller countries a much less attractive target for imperialists like Putin.
Well I respectfully disagree that Ukraine would use nukes to counter a conventional invasion.
It wouldn’t be to “counter” such an invasion. The threat of their use is intended to counter any decision to launch such an invasion.
If the invasion is launched regardless, the smaller nation loses anyway, but will be very likely to deliver on their promise of heavy consequences for the invader.
Why do you think various Ukrainian politicians (and probably most of the population|) now regret getting rid of their nuclear weapons?
Date: 23/02/2022 21:28:20
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851964
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
?
I’ve been pointing out, repeatedly, that they wouldn’t be using nuclear weapons to “win” – there’s no way they could win a war against Russia on their own, nuclear weapons or not.
The purpose of the nuclear weapons would be to warn them that if they seek to conquer Ukraine, although Russia would win, they would pay an obviously heavy price.
So unless they’re nuts, don’t do it. And don’t muck around with incursions that could easily escalate.
Nuclear weapons make smaller countries a much less attractive target for imperialists like Putin.
Well I respectfully disagree that Ukraine would use nukes to counter a conventional invasion.
It wouldn’t be to “counter” such an invasion. The threat of their use is intended to counter any decision to launch such an invasion.
If the invasion is launched regardless, the smaller nation loses anyway, but will be very likely to deliver on their promise of heavy consequences for the invader.
Why do you think various Ukrainian politicians (and probably most of the population|) now regret getting rid of their nuclear weapons?
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:32:23
From: dv
ID: 1851965
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Well I respectfully disagree that Ukraine would use nukes to counter a conventional invasion.
It wouldn’t be to “counter” such an invasion. The threat of their use is intended to counter any decision to launch such an invasion.
If the invasion is launched regardless, the smaller nation loses anyway, but will be very likely to deliver on their promise of heavy consequences for the invader.
Why do you think various Ukrainian politicians (and probably most of the population|) now regret getting rid of their nuclear weapons?
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
Yet, and this the thing, ten nations have nuclear weapons. Sanely analysed you’d probably reckon that no one would ever use them but they’ve all figured it is to their advantage to have them. Would the USA or Russia ever use their thousands of weapons? Are there any conceivable circumstances in which it would make strategic sense for either country to render the planet uninhabitable? Not really, eh. But … they’ve still got the weapons because it makes strategic sense to have them.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:33:02
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851966
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Well I respectfully disagree that Ukraine would use nukes to counter a conventional invasion.
It wouldn’t be to “counter” such an invasion. The threat of their use is intended to counter any decision to launch such an invasion.
If the invasion is launched regardless, the smaller nation loses anyway, but will be very likely to deliver on their promise of heavy consequences for the invader.
Why do you think various Ukrainian politicians (and probably most of the population|) now regret getting rid of their nuclear weapons?
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
We’re talking about people losing their country to a hostile invader. Traditionally most citizens of nations regard that as a big deal, and have fought many wars that involved the deliberate killing of many millions of people.
Maybe you missed those bits of history :)
Date: 23/02/2022 21:38:25
From: dv
ID: 1851967
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
It wouldn’t be to “counter” such an invasion. The threat of their use is intended to counter any decision to launch such an invasion.
If the invasion is launched regardless, the smaller nation loses anyway, but will be very likely to deliver on their promise of heavy consequences for the invader.
Why do you think various Ukrainian politicians (and probably most of the population|) now regret getting rid of their nuclear weapons?
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
We’re talking about people losing their country to a hostile invader. Traditionally most citizens of nations regard that as a big deal, and have fought many wars that involved the deliberate killing of many millions of people.
Maybe you missed those bits of history :)
This. The Allied Powers could have saved 70 million lives in WW1 just by immediately acceding to all territorial demands of the Central Powers, but strangely enough, they didn’t.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:41:07
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851969
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
It wouldn’t be to “counter” such an invasion. The threat of their use is intended to counter any decision to launch such an invasion.
If the invasion is launched regardless, the smaller nation loses anyway, but will be very likely to deliver on their promise of heavy consequences for the invader.
Why do you think various Ukrainian politicians (and probably most of the population|) now regret getting rid of their nuclear weapons?
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
Yet, and this the thing, ten nations have nuclear weapons. Sanely analysed you’d probably reckon that no one would ever use them but they’ve all figured it is to their advantage to have them. Would the USA or Russia ever use their thousands of weapons? Are there any conceivable circumstances in which it would make strategic sense for either country to render the planet uninhabitable? Not really, eh. But … they’ve still got the weapons because it makes strategic sense to have them.
I wouldn’t say there’s no reason to have them even if they’re never used. Merely that in regional conflicts they have very little utility.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:41:58
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851970
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
It wouldn’t be to “counter” such an invasion. The threat of their use is intended to counter any decision to launch such an invasion.
If the invasion is launched regardless, the smaller nation loses anyway, but will be very likely to deliver on their promise of heavy consequences for the invader.
Why do you think various Ukrainian politicians (and probably most of the population|) now regret getting rid of their nuclear weapons?
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
We’re talking about people losing their country to a hostile invader. Traditionally most citizens of nations regard that as a big deal, and have fought many wars that involved the deliberate killing of many millions of people.
Maybe you missed those bits of history :)
Maybe I don’t gleefully talk up the deaths of millions from my cosy home in Tassie.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:43:14
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1851971
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
We’re talking about people losing their country to a hostile invader. Traditionally most citizens of nations regard that as a big deal, and have fought many wars that involved the deliberate killing of many millions of people.
Maybe you missed those bits of history :)
Maybe I don’t gleefully talk up the deaths of millions from my cosy home in Tassie.
Nothing remotely gleeful about it.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:43:53
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851972
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I admit I haven’t read anywhere that Ukrainians have nuclear regrets so I may be out of the loop. I suppose I may have old-fashioned notions of proportionality whereby elected politicians wouldn’t choose to kill millions in retaliation for oppression meted out on vastly smaller numbers.
We’re talking about people losing their country to a hostile invader. Traditionally most citizens of nations regard that as a big deal, and have fought many wars that involved the deliberate killing of many millions of people.
Maybe you missed those bits of history :)
This. The Allied Powers could have saved 70 million lives in WW1 just by immediately acceding to all territorial demands of the Central Powers, but strangely enough, they didn’t.
In that regard Macarthur could have saved 50 million Chinese by invading in the 1950s. Wouldn’t make it right.
Date: 23/02/2022 21:45:14
From: dv
ID: 1851973
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
We’re talking about people losing their country to a hostile invader. Traditionally most citizens of nations regard that as a big deal, and have fought many wars that involved the deliberate killing of many millions of people.
Maybe you missed those bits of history :)
This. The Allied Powers could have saved 70 million lives in WW1 just by immediately acceding to all territorial demands of the Central Powers, but strangely enough, they didn’t.
In that regard Macarthur could have saved 50 million Chinese by invading in the 1950s. Wouldn’t make it right.
Well who am I to say what’s right?
Date: 23/02/2022 21:46:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1851974
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
oh come on you lot what’s a few million monkeys anyway, is there a monkeymade environmental crisis currently or isn’t there
Date: 23/02/2022 21:47:35
From: dv
ID: 1851975
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
oh come on you lot what’s a few million monkeys anyway, is there a monkeymade environmental crisis currently or isn’t there
You forgot to switch to Zarkov mode
Date: 23/02/2022 21:48:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1851976
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
?
I’ve been pointing out, repeatedly, that they wouldn’t be using nuclear weapons to “win” – there’s no way they could win a war against Russia on their own, nuclear weapons or not.
The purpose of the nuclear weapons would be to warn them that if they seek to conquer Ukraine, although Russia would win, they would pay an obviously heavy price.
So unless they’re nuts, don’t do it. And don’t muck around with incursions that could easily escalate.
Nuclear weapons make smaller countries a much less attractive target for imperialists like Putin.
Well I respectfully disagree that Ukraine would use nukes to counter a conventional invasion.
I mean it’s already radioactive, they might as well…
is this all going to end in the same bullshit as the pandemic strategy joke, who cares about prevention when you can use expensive treatments
Date: 23/02/2022 21:48:54
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1851977
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
oh come on you lot what’s a few million monkeys anyway, is there a monkeymade environmental crisis currently or isn’t there
You forgot to switch to Zarkov mode
plutonium is a heavy metal and plutonium is poisonous
Date: 23/02/2022 21:54:49
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1851980
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Just watching a bit of Sleepy Joe speaking on this issue, pretty sure he wont be running in 2024 and I don’t believe he’s been running for some time.
Date: 23/02/2022 22:19:07
From: dv
ID: 1851987
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, called up military reservists Tuesday night after Russia announced a list of impossible demands and hinted that bloodshed could ensue if they were not fulfilled.
Calling on Ukrainians to fight for their country before it disappears, Mr. Zelensky said his government would work to “raise the preparedness of the Ukrainian army to all possible changes in the operational situation.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/europe/ukraines-president-calls-up-reserves-urging-ukrainians-to-fight-for-their-country.html
Ukraine has about a quarter of a million active military personnel and a quarter of a million reservists. A 30 day state of emergency has also been announced.
Date: 23/02/2022 22:20:01
From: dv
ID: 1851988
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Just watching a bit of Sleepy Joe speaking on this issue, pretty sure he wont be running in 2024 and I don’t believe he’s been running for some time.
It’s certainly great to be listening to someone speaking appositely and articulately on important matters, not just blathering incoherent nonsense like the previous guy.
Date: 23/02/2022 22:22:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1851989
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Just watching a bit of Sleepy Joe speaking on this issue, pretty sure he wont be running in 2024 and I don’t believe he’s been running for some time.
We’ll know where it’s at when he has to carefully navigate down wet ramps come Spring.
Date: 23/02/2022 22:22:32
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1851990
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Just watching a bit of Sleepy Joe speaking on this issue, pretty sure he wont be running in 2024 and I don’t believe he’s been running for some time.
It’s certainly great to be listening to someone speaking appositely and articulately on important matters, not just blathering incoherent nonsense like the previous guy.
I think even a blithering idiot would be more comprehensible and articulated than the previous president.
Date: 23/02/2022 22:23:42
From: Neophyte
ID: 1851991
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Just watching a bit of Sleepy Joe speaking on this issue, pretty sure he wont be running in 2024 and I don’t believe he’s been running for some time.
It’s certainly great to be listening to someone speaking appositely and articulately on important matters, not just blathering incoherent nonsense like the previous guy.
The previous guy has said…“If properly handled, there was absolutely no reason that the situation currently happening in Ukraine should have happened at all. I know Vladimir Putin very well, and he would have never done during the Trump Administration what he is doing now, no way!”
Date: 23/02/2022 22:37:54
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1851997
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Just watching a bit of Sleepy Joe speaking on this issue, pretty sure he wont be running in 2024 and I don’t believe he’s been running for some time.
It’s certainly great to be listening to someone speaking appositely and articulately on important matters, not just blathering incoherent nonsense like the previous guy.
I think even a blithering idiot would be more comprehensible and articulated than the previous president.

Date: 23/02/2022 22:52:12
From: dv
ID: 1852004
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Just watching a bit of Sleepy Joe speaking on this issue, pretty sure he wont be running in 2024 and I don’t believe he’s been running for some time.
It’s certainly great to be listening to someone speaking appositely and articulately on important matters, not just blathering incoherent nonsense like the previous guy.
I think even a blithering idiot would be more comprehensible and articulated than the previous president.
Although he has certainly made some inane and baffling speeches, the one that always stuck in my mind was his campaign speech about the Obama-era agreement to end Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Hardly a sentence or thought was completed. It was just a grab bag of irrelevant gibberish, like you would expect from someone emerging from catatonia. One of the weirdest parts was “Nnuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?”. So his uncle, in 1980, after three decades of build of nuclear arsenals, told Donald that ‘nuclear’ was going to be powerful.
“Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart —you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you’re a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.”
Date: 23/02/2022 23:05:24
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852007
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Apparently the Australian Govt has decided to push through immigration processes for those in Ukraine wanting to migrate to Australia. A few weeks ago might have been a bit more helpful… although I assume the leader of Ukraine hopes as many people will stay and help push back , should Russia start being a little bit pushie about moving the line of the Russian boundary a long a bit…
Date: 23/02/2022 23:09:58
From: party_pants
ID: 1852009
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Apparently the Australian Govt has decided to push through immigration processes for those in Ukraine wanting to migrate to Australia. A few weeks ago might have been a bit more helpful… although I assume the leader of Ukraine hopes as many people will stay and help push back , should Russia start being a little bit pushie about moving the line of the Russian boundary a long a bit…
Maybe we should also fast-track immigration for any educated or technically skilled Russians who want to denounce Putin and move to a western democratic country. Skim off the best and brightest – brain drain and all that.
Date: 23/02/2022 23:13:12
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852010
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
Apparently the Australian Govt has decided to push through immigration processes for those in Ukraine wanting to migrate to Australia. A few weeks ago might have been a bit more helpful… although I assume the leader of Ukraine hopes as many people will stay and help push back , should Russia start being a little bit pushie about moving the line of the Russian boundary a long a bit…
Maybe we should also fast-track immigration for any educated or technically skilled Russians who want to denounce Putin and move to a western democratic country. Skim off the best and brightest – brain drain and all that.
I don’t know that many would be allowed to leave is the problem.
Date: 23/02/2022 23:17:09
From: party_pants
ID: 1852012
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
Apparently the Australian Govt has decided to push through immigration processes for those in Ukraine wanting to migrate to Australia. A few weeks ago might have been a bit more helpful… although I assume the leader of Ukraine hopes as many people will stay and help push back , should Russia start being a little bit pushie about moving the line of the Russian boundary a long a bit…
Maybe we should also fast-track immigration for any educated or technically skilled Russians who want to denounce Putin and move to a western democratic country. Skim off the best and brightest – brain drain and all that.
I don’t know that many would be allowed to leave is the problem.
Maybe they could go to the neutral third country as tourists first, and apply from there.
Date: 23/02/2022 23:34:24
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852013
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
Maybe we should also fast-track immigration for any educated or technically skilled Russians who want to denounce Putin and move to a western democratic country. Skim off the best and brightest – brain drain and all that.
I don’t know that many would be allowed to leave is the problem.
Maybe they could go to the neutral third country as tourists first, and apply from there.
like one of the baltic nations?
Date: 23/02/2022 23:42:57
From: party_pants
ID: 1852016
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
I don’t know that many would be allowed to leave is the problem.
Maybe they could go to the neutral third country as tourists first, and apply from there.
like one of the baltic nations?
Switzerland or Sweden,
maybe Monaco? they could all rock up pretending to be motor racing fans,,,
Date: 23/02/2022 23:55:43
From: sibeen
ID: 1852018
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
Maybe they could go to the neutral third country as tourists first, and apply from there.
like one of the baltic nations?
Switzerland or Sweden,
maybe Monaco? they could all rock up pretending to be motor racing fans,,,
That wouldn’t work; it is by far the worst race on the circuit. They’d be caught out as phonies.
Date: 23/02/2022 23:55:47
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852019
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
Maybe they could go to the neutral third country as tourists first, and apply from there.
like one of the baltic nations?
Switzerland or Sweden,
maybe Monaco? they could all rock up pretending to be motor racing fans,,,
maybe …hmm … now I feel like eating a monte carlo biscuit…
Date: 23/02/2022 23:59:19
From: party_pants
ID: 1852020
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
like one of the baltic nations?
Switzerland or Sweden,
maybe Monaco? they could all rock up pretending to be motor racing fans,,,
That wouldn’t work; it is by far the worst race on the circuit. They’d be caught out as phonies.
Yeah, true. Bummer.
Date: 24/02/2022 00:03:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852021
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 24/02/2022 00:09:49
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852023
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
it would have been far more passive if they’d played , paper, scissor , rock
Date: 24/02/2022 00:25:39
From: Kingy
ID: 1852026
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
It’s certainly great to be listening to someone speaking appositely and articulately on important matters, not just blathering incoherent nonsense like the previous guy.
I think even a blithering idiot would be more comprehensible and articulated than the previous president.
Although he has certainly made some inane and baffling speeches, the one that always stuck in my mind was his campaign speech about the Obama-era agreement to end Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Hardly a sentence or thought was completed. It was just a grab bag of irrelevant gibberish, like you would expect from someone emerging from catatonia. One of the weirdest parts was “Nnuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?”. So his uncle, in 1980, after three decades of build of nuclear arsenals, told Donald that ‘nuclear’ was going to be powerful.
“Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart —you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you’re a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.”
What drugs do you reckon he was on then? Anti-depressants? Valium? It’s gotta be a cocktail of spastic.
Date: 24/02/2022 00:44:54
From: party_pants
ID: 1852036
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
if only Good Responsible Russians could escape and shelter in some glorious western democracy
https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/07/21/russia-report-the-government-left-us-completely-exposed-to-kremlin-interference/
oh wait
Brexit was a Russian plot to break up the EU.
Date: 24/02/2022 02:03:34
From: dv
ID: 1852045
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
if only Good Responsible Russians could escape and shelter in some glorious western democracy
https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/07/21/russia-report-the-government-left-us-completely-exposed-to-kremlin-interference/
oh wait
Brexit was a Russian plot to break up the EU.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/10733446/Brilliant-Putin-is-the-leader-I-most-admire-says-Nigel-Farage.html?fb
Date: 24/02/2022 02:13:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852047
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
if only Good Responsible Russians could escape and shelter in some glorious western democracy
https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/07/21/russia-report-the-government-left-us-completely-exposed-to-kremlin-interference/
oh wait
Brexit was a Russian plot to break up the EU.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/10733446/Brilliant-Putin-is-the-leader-I-most-admire-says-Nigel-Farage.html?fb
Today’s psychopaths certainly enjoy openly flaunting their condition.
Date: 24/02/2022 02:17:32
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852049
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Other psychopaths…
Gen. McCaffrey: Trump, Pompeo’s Support Of ‘Murderous Thug’ Putin Endangers America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YvfP4n4Y-Q
Date: 24/02/2022 02:59:56
From: dv
ID: 1852052
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Other psychopaths…
Gen. McCaffrey: Trump, Pompeo’s Support Of ‘Murderous Thug’ Putin Endangers America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YvfP4n4Y-Q
Nothing that falls out of Trump’s mouth surprises me but this is very illuminating about Pompeo
Date: 24/02/2022 05:41:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852054
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Berlin’s Brandenburg Gate illuminated in blue and yellow in support of Ukraine.
Meanwhile US intelligence has warned Ukraine that an all-out attack appears to be imminent.

Date: 24/02/2022 05:55:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852056
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
party_pants said:
Brexit was a Russian plot to break up the EU.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/10733446/Brilliant-Putin-is-the-leader-I-most-admire-says-Nigel-Farage.html?fb
Today’s psychopaths certainly enjoy openly flaunting their condition.
They are being paid to be psychopaths by others who want them in power.
Date: 24/02/2022 08:57:05
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852092
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
At least Pompeo is willing to admit that Putin is the “aggressor” and the Ukrainians are his “victims.” No such censure was evident in Trump’s comments Tuesday to right-wing podcaster Buck Sexton. Putin’s aggression against Ukraine is an act of “genius,” according to Trump. He explained:
“Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. ‘I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. … We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy.”
Trump went on to rhapsodize about his relationship with Putin — “He liked me. I liked him.” — and to praise him as someone with a lot of “charm and a lot of pride” who “loves his country.”
From:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/23/trump-praises-putin-ukraine-refuting-claims-tough-on-russia/?
Date: 24/02/2022 09:08:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852093
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Life on Ukraine’s eastern frontier – in pictures
Alienated civilians, ruined homes and Ukrainian soldiers on the frontline
https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/feb/21/life-on-ukraines-eastern-frontier-in-pictures
Ruslana, 38, a Ukrainian army paramedic for five years, takes a break in the infirmary – which also serves as her bedroom – with her cat, Misha, in Pisky.

Oleksii, AKA Godzilla, was previously a civilian journalist. His father was killed in 2016 by a mortar attack near the village of Zaitsevo in the Donetsk region. Since then he joined the army.

Date: 24/02/2022 12:33:44
From: transition
ID: 1852129
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
At least Pompeo is willing to admit that Putin is the “aggressor” and the Ukrainians are his “victims.” No such censure was evident in Trump’s comments Tuesday to right-wing podcaster Buck Sexton. Putin’s aggression against Ukraine is an act of “genius,” according to Trump. He explained:
“Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. ‘I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. … We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy.”
Trump went on to rhapsodize about his relationship with Putin — “He liked me. I liked him.” — and to praise him as someone with a lot of “charm and a lot of pride” who “loves his country.”
From:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/23/trump-praises-putin-ukraine-refuting-claims-tough-on-russia/?
one chap has fairly prominent narcissistic indications, limited ability re abstraction of motivation and absent any substantial feel for internal environments, grandiosity inclined thievery in that territory of the intangible, expediency, patches the hole, compensates
absolutely nothing like the other chap I expect, nothing like the fox
Date: 24/02/2022 13:18:10
From: Woodie
ID: 1852134
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Won’t anybody think of the MOEX?

Date: 24/02/2022 13:41:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852148
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Won’t anybody think of the MOEX?

l will give it some thought.
Date: 24/02/2022 13:44:23
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852152
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Woodie said:
Won’t anybody think of the MOEX?

l will give it some thought.
In total, US investors own 36.8% of the shares of Moscow Exchange and UK investors own 10.1%. Additionally, 360,000 Russian retail investors own MOEX shares.
US and UK investors bring the total to 46.9%
Date: 24/02/2022 15:08:40
From: Michael V
ID: 1852199
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
It’s underway, BTW.
Ukraine crisis live: Germany shelves Russian gas pipeline after Putin orders troops over border
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/22/ukraine-russia-latest-live-news-updates-crisis-putin-biden-zelenskiy-kyiv-kiev-russian-invasion-border-threat
I’m not liking this one little bit.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-24/vladimir-putin-authorises-special-military-operation/100857650
Date: 24/02/2022 15:15:18
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1852207
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
there are media report of Russian military attacks on targets outside Kyiv
Date: 24/02/2022 15:29:10
From: dv
ID: 1852214
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
there are media report of Russian military attacks on targets outside Kyiv
“Explosions” are also reported in Kharkiv and Odessa. Haven’t seen any details, just reports of the sounds of loud explosions.
Date: 24/02/2022 15:45:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852217
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
there are media report of Russian military attacks on targets outside Kyiv
Still think Putin is a “pragmatist”?
Date: 24/02/2022 15:45:49
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1852218
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
diddly-squat said:
there are media report of Russian military attacks on targets outside Kyiv
“Explosions” are also reported in Kharkiv and Odessa. Haven’t seen any details, just reports of the sounds of loud explosions.
The Times claims they were from “the direction of the international airport”.
Date: 24/02/2022 15:47:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852220
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian air strikes underway on Kharkiv.

Date: 24/02/2022 15:48:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852221
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine confirms Russia’s ‘full-scale invasion’
Ukraine’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba has confirmed Russia’s “full-scale invasion” of Ukraine.
Putin has just launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes.
This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now.”
Date: 24/02/2022 15:51:10
From: dv
ID: 1852222
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 24/02/2022 15:52:03
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1852223
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Ukraine confirms Russia’s ‘full-scale invasion’
Ukraine’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba has confirmed Russia’s “full-scale invasion” of Ukraine.
Putin has just launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes.
This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now.”
Can a third party stop a war using purely diplomatic means?
Date: 24/02/2022 15:52:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852224
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia invades Ukraine as Putin declares war to ‘demilitarise’ neighbour
Russia appeared to be targeting military infrastructure in early strikes with explosions reported at airfields, military headquarters and military warehouses
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/russia-attacks-ukraine-news-vladimir-putin-zelenskiy-russian-invasion
Date: 24/02/2022 15:54:37
From: dv
ID: 1852225
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
Ukraine confirms Russia’s ‘full-scale invasion’
Ukraine’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba has confirmed Russia’s “full-scale invasion” of Ukraine.
Putin has just launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes.
This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now.”
Can a third party stop a war using purely diplomatic means?
Diplomatic, probably not.
Economic, maybe.
Date: 24/02/2022 15:56:55
From: dv
ID: 1852227
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
There are also reports of a ground invasion.
Russian troops have landed in Odessa and are crossing the border, Ukrainian official says
An adviser for the Interior Minister of Ukraine, Anton Gerashchenko, has told journalists on an official WhatsApp group that Russian troops have landed in the city Odessa and are crossing the border in the city of Kharkiv.
Gerashchenko added there have been missile strikes on the Vasilkovsky airfield near Kyiv.
He also said that Borys Filatov, the mayor of Dnipro, just called to say he was hearing explosions.
Date: 24/02/2022 16:03:52
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1852230
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I still haven’t quite sorted out what Biden meant by a “False Flag operation”.
Did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Russian in order to agitprop the Ukrainians?
Or did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Ukrainians in order to agitprop the Russians?
Or both?
It’s got to be the first, doesn’t it? The Russians aren’t that easily fooled.
Date: 24/02/2022 16:06:35
From: furious
ID: 1852233
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I still haven’t quite sorted out what Biden meant by a “False Flag operation”.
Did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Russian in order to agitprop the Ukrainians?
Or did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Ukrainians in order to agitprop the Russians?
Or both?
It’s got to be the first, doesn’t it? The Russians aren’t that easily fooled.
I think he was referring to Russians, or rebels, pretending to be loyalists…
Date: 24/02/2022 16:07:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1852234
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I still haven’t quite sorted out what Biden meant by a “False Flag operation”.
Did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Russian in order to agitprop the Ukrainians?
Or did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Ukrainians in order to agitprop the Russians?
Or both?
It’s got to be the first, doesn’t it? The Russians aren’t that easily fooled.
I took it to mean the Russians would perform the false flag operation to give them an excuse to go in hard. As it turns out, Russia did not give a shit and just brazenly waltzed in.
Date: 24/02/2022 16:07:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852235
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I still haven’t quite sorted out what Biden meant by a “False Flag operation”.
Did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Russian in order to agitprop the Ukrainians?
Or did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Ukrainians in order to agitprop the Russians?
Or both?
It’s got to be the first, doesn’t it? The Russians aren’t that easily fooled.
Hey moll, could you please stop posting in this forum?
There are people who care about these events, and to have a psycho like you upsetting everyone is not good.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:21:26
From: dv
ID: 1852292
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/T3bbf5Qa4bw
A reminder of Trump’s Putin support
Date: 24/02/2022 17:29:35
From: dv
ID: 1852300
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Have to hand it to US Intelligence’s assessment on this one.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:33:05
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852301
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Will Australia go to war in the Ukraine before our elections?
Date: 24/02/2022 17:34:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852303
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Will Australia go to war in the Ukraine before our elections?
I doubt it.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:34:39
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852304
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Will Australia go to war in the Ukraine before our elections?
impose martial law déclare emergency postpone election indefinitely sounds good
Date: 24/02/2022 17:34:52
From: dv
ID: 1852305
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Will Australia go to war in the Ukraine before our elections?
Australia will not go to war in the Ukraine before or after our elections.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:45:46
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852310
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sarahs mum said:
Will Australia go to war in the Ukraine before our elections?
Australia will not go to war in the Ukraine before or after our elections.
good.
good.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:47:37
From: furious
ID: 1852314
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
dv said:
sarahs mum said:
Will Australia go to war in the Ukraine before our elections?
Australia will not go to war in the Ukraine before or after our elections.
good.
good.
But during the election, on the other hand…
Date: 24/02/2022 17:49:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852316
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I still haven’t quite sorted out what Biden meant by a “False Flag operation”.
Did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Russian in order to agitprop the Ukrainians?
Or did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Ukrainians in order to agitprop the Russians?
Or both?
It’s got to be the first, doesn’t it? The Russians aren’t that easily fooled.
The Americans are not pretending to be Russian or Ukrainian.
A false-flag operation is a staged attack were the source of responsibility is disguised or fabricated in order to pin blame on another party.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:49:56
From: dv
ID: 1852318
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
Date: 24/02/2022 17:50:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852319
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
was it forseeable
Date: 24/02/2022 17:51:42
From: sibeen
ID: 1852321
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
was it forseeable
The Americans appeared to think so.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:52:10
From: Arts
ID: 1852322
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
was it forseeable
I fell like it was, this has been brewing for years.. I’m very surprised that this whole thing surprises anyone
Date: 24/02/2022 17:52:15
From: transition
ID: 1852323
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
mollwollfumble said:
I still haven’t quite sorted out what Biden meant by a “False Flag operation”.
Did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Russian in order to agitprop the Ukrainians?
Or did he mean that Americans are pretending to be Ukrainians in order to agitprop the Russians?
Or both?
It’s got to be the first, doesn’t it? The Russians aren’t that easily fooled.
The Americans are not pretending to be Russian or Ukrainian.
A false-flag operation is a staged attack were the source of responsibility is disguised or fabricated in order to pin blame on another party.
perfect timing really, western propaganda machine been busy giving momentum to endemic covid normal, possibly turn out to be the worst super-pandemic the world has ever seen, and spilling over into other species
Date: 24/02/2022 17:54:55
From: furious
ID: 1852327
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
In the lead up he seemed to be like, don’t worry about it, it’s all good. All the foreigners are worried about nothing…
Date: 24/02/2022 17:56:14
From: buffy
ID: 1852328
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
was it forseeable
I fell like it was, this has been brewing for years.. I’m very surprised that this whole thing surprises anyone
I doubt the Ukrainian general public is surprised either.
Date: 24/02/2022 17:57:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852330
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
was it forseeable
The Americans appeared to think so.
I fell like it was, this has been brewing for years.. I’m very surprised that this whole thing surprises anyone
so it turns out that electing comedians and reality television hosts and that kind thing is all fun and games until something important and predictable like pandemic or war happens at which point it all goes to shit
who knew
Date: 24/02/2022 18:14:11
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1852335
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
Arts said:
SCIENCE said:
was it forseeable
I fell like it was, this has been brewing for years.. I’m very surprised that this whole thing surprises anyone
I doubt the Ukrainian general public is surprised either.
In Kiev a number of residents were a few days ago interviewed and they were not concerned that Russia would attack them, after all they were all brothers. They continued that those who were afraid had fled further west months ago and those who remained were carrying on as usual. Russia they said, only wanted more concessions from the Ukrainian and American governments. Bet they have had a rethink since. Apparently the roads are now jammed with cars heading west.
Date: 24/02/2022 18:27:55
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852339
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Olga says they’re just following whatever news they can find and hoping for the best, but realistically they expect the unfolding reports to range from “awful to horrific”.
Date: 24/02/2022 18:28:04
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852340
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
I imagine preparations for operations against occupying Russian forced have been going on for quite some time.
Date: 24/02/2022 18:48:30
From: dv
ID: 1852344
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
I imagine preparations for operations against occupying Russian forced have been going on for quite some time.
I don’t mean military preparation, I mean alerting people to the urgent need to stock up and prepare to evacuate or move to shelters.
Date: 24/02/2022 18:55:22
From: dv
ID: 1852345
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin has described the operation as “Denazification”, which is of course is a word that resonates with Russians a lot. Zelenskyy is Jewish so it’s a bit off.
Date: 24/02/2022 18:59:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852346
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Putin has described the operation as “Denazification”, which is of course is a word that resonates with Russians a lot. Zelenskyy is Jewish so it’s a bit off.
Given that Putin is essentially a fascist, it’s more than a bit off.
Date: 24/02/2022 18:59:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852347
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Moment that Putin thundered to war, drowning out last entreaties for peace
As members of UN security council poured out calls for restraint, Russian president was already launching attack on Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/moment-that-putin-thundered-to-war-drowning-out-last-entreaties-for-peace
….The Ukrainian ambassador, Sergiy Kyslytsya, had been waiting for his turn to speak while receiving constant updates from Kyiv. When his time came, he had to dispense with his prepared speech because, he said, “most of it is already useless”. Instead he held up a copy of the UN charter and read the clause that said UN membership was open to all peace-loving states that accepted the obligations contained in the small sky-blue booklet.
“Russia is not able to carry out any of those obligations,” Kyslytsya declared.
He challenged Nebenzya to deny that Ukraine was under attack.
“You have a smartphone,” he said, taunting the Russian to check with his boss, the foreign minister, on what was really going on. “You can call Lavrov right now. We can make a pause to let you go out and call him.”
Nebenzya declined. “I have already said all I know at this point,” he said. “Waking up minister Lavrov at this time is not something I plan to do.”
….Kyslytsya himself was trembling with emotion. He stared at Nebenzya and demanded the Russian relinquish his duties as chair of the council.
“There is no purgatory for war criminals,” he warned him. “They go straight to hell.”
Date: 24/02/2022 19:01:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852348
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
I imagine preparations for operations against occupying Russian forced have been going on for quite some time.
I don’t mean military preparation, I mean alerting people to the urgent need to stock up and prepare to evacuate or move to shelters.
I suppose there is a fine line between warning people and creating unnecessary alarm.
Date: 24/02/2022 19:02:27
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1852349
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Zelensky is coming into some criticism for not preparing the Ukrainian public better for the inevitability of the invasion
Bagdad Bob comes to mind.
Date: 24/02/2022 19:15:08
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1852350
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
There’s bugger all, apart from sanctions, that the west can do apart from military intervention and that would be catastrophic.
Date: 24/02/2022 19:15:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852351
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Confusion is felt throughout Moscow this morning. On the Old Arbat, one of Moscow’s busiest pedestrian streets, many expressed shock that Russia had launched a full-scale attack on Ukraine.
“I didn’t think Putin would be willing to go all the way. How can we bomb Ukraine? We have our disagreements, but this is not to a way to solve them,” said Ksenia Fadeeva.
“I am embarrassed for my country. To be honest with you, I am speechless. War is always scary. We don’t want this,” said Nikita Golubev.
“I couldn’t believe the news I read this morning. A war with Ukraine? What are we doing? I feel powerless,” said Tatyana, who asked for her surname not to be published.
The Ukrainian Cultural Center in central Moscow said it was shut today due to the invasion . The Ukrainian administrator, who didn’t want to give his name, said: “We are being bombed as we speak. Of course we are closed! Jesus, what is happening?”
Guardian Live
Date: 24/02/2022 19:16:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852352
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s bugger all, apart from sanctions, that the west can do apart from military intervention and that would be catastrophic.
Germany is now finally considering joining other Western nations in sending weapons to the Ukrainians.
Date: 24/02/2022 19:17:31
From: dv
ID: 1852353
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I imagine preparations for operations against occupying Russian forced have been going on for quite some time.
I don’t mean military preparation, I mean alerting people to the urgent need to stock up and prepare to evacuate or move to shelters.
I suppose there is a fine line between warning people and creating unnecessary alarm.
Well I’m sure it is very complex.
Date: 24/02/2022 19:18:31
From: dv
ID: 1852354
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s bugger all, apart from sanctions, that the west can do apart from military intervention and that would be catastrophic.
I guess that’s about it
Date: 24/02/2022 19:39:30
From: party_pants
ID: 1852359
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s bugger all, apart from sanctions, that the west can do apart from military intervention and that would be catastrophic.
They can do what the US did to help the Israelis. Send fighter aircraft and hastily repaint them with the right logos.
Date: 24/02/2022 20:03:02
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852367
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
⚠ content warning
if you want to see what’s being reported
https://twitter.com/no_itsmyturn/status/1496734750450810881
we make no claim or judgement as to the veracity or verisimilitude of the content
Date: 24/02/2022 20:05:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852368
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
we make no claim or judgement as to the veracity or verisimilitude of the content
similarly


Date: 24/02/2022 20:07:14
From: Kingy
ID: 1852369
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Video of a missile hitting an airport in Western Ukraine
https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/
Date: 24/02/2022 20:08:10
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852370
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In some of the first apparent casualties in Ukraine, MSNBC reports at least 6 people were killed and 19 others are missing in Podolsk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDeFCT_nPFs
Date: 24/02/2022 20:10:51
From: Kingy
ID: 1852371
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Things seem to be getting out of hand.

Date: 24/02/2022 20:12:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852372
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
out of hand
oh it’s all very much under control as intended comrade
Date: 24/02/2022 20:15:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852373
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s bugger all, apart from sanctions, that the west can do apart from military intervention and that would be catastrophic.
Germany is now finally considering joining other Western nations in sending weapons to the Ukrainians.
so it’s a proxy war after all
Date: 24/02/2022 20:16:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852374
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
I don’t mean military preparation, I mean alerting people to the urgent need to stock up and prepare to evacuate or move to shelters.
I suppose there is a fine line between warning people and creating unnecessary alarm.
Well I’m sure it is very complex.
we disagree
Date: 24/02/2022 21:08:12
From: dv
ID: 1852379
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 24/02/2022 21:17:46
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1852381
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Excuses for inaction??
Date: 24/02/2022 22:32:35
From: dv
ID: 1852391
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“We need a response of necessity to this war of choice”
good line
Date: 24/02/2022 23:02:37
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852392
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s bugger all, apart from sanctions, that the west can do apart from military intervention and that would be catastrophic.
They can do what the US did to help the Israelis. Send fighter aircraft and hastily repaint them with the right logos.
Apparently the Ukrainian Air Force only has a couple of hundred planes in total, and only 69 fighter jets.
Date: 24/02/2022 23:25:58
From: sibeen
ID: 1852394
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In a rare act of public dissent against the war, the Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta has announced that its next edition will come out in Russian and Ukrainian languages.
Dmitry Muratov, the Nobel prize-winning editor of the paper, said that “together with our grief we feel shame” about a war that he directly blamed on Vladimir Putin.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/24/russia-invades-ukraine-declares-war-latest-news-live-updates-russian-invasion-vladimir-putin-explosions-bombing-kyiv-kharkiv
Date: 24/02/2022 23:29:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852396
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
In a rare act of public dissent against the war, the Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta has announced that its next edition will come out in Russian and Ukrainian languages.
Dmitry Muratov, the Nobel prize-winning editor of the paper, said that “together with our grief we feel shame” about a war that he directly blamed on Vladimir Putin.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/24/russia-invades-ukraine-declares-war-latest-news-live-updates-russian-invasion-vladimir-putin-explosions-bombing-kyiv-kharkiv
Brave man.
Date: 24/02/2022 23:35:08
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852398
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
MSNBC
4.65M subscribers
Keir Simmons reports from Moscow, where producers on the ground tell him “the dollars have run out” as Russians flock to banks, attempting to get ahead of U.S, sanctions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFGKbbXsg4c
Date: 24/02/2022 23:36:56
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852400
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
In a rare act of public dissent against the war, the Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta has announced that its next edition will come out in Russian and Ukrainian languages.
Dmitry Muratov, the Nobel prize-winning editor of the paper, said that “together with our grief we feel shame” about a war that he directly blamed on Vladimir Putin.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/24/russia-invades-ukraine-declares-war-latest-news-live-updates-russian-invasion-vladimir-putin-explosions-bombing-kyiv-kharkiv
Brave man.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see the soldiers of the Russian forces refuse to to continue this invasion and take Putin off his throne.
Date: 24/02/2022 23:39:32
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852402
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
In a rare act of public dissent against the war, the Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta has announced that its next edition will come out in Russian and Ukrainian languages.
Dmitry Muratov, the Nobel prize-winning editor of the paper, said that “together with our grief we feel shame” about a war that he directly blamed on Vladimir Putin.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/24/russia-invades-ukraine-declares-war-latest-news-live-updates-russian-invasion-vladimir-putin-explosions-bombing-kyiv-kharkiv
Brave man.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see the soldiers of the Russian forces refuse to to continue this invasion and take Putin off his throne.
Very nice but not likely.
Date: 24/02/2022 23:44:49
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852408
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
monkey skipper said:
Bubblecar said:
Brave man.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see the soldiers of the Russian forces refuse to to continue this invasion and take Putin off his throne.
Very nice but not likely.
This time around after the way covid in Russia was handled it seems that civilians were less than impressed and it seems that Russians are not themselves wanting this war. Maybe there will be a revolt from within.
Date: 24/02/2022 23:46:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852411
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Bubblecar said:
monkey skipper said:
Wouldn’t it be nice to see the soldiers of the Russian forces refuse to to continue this invasion and take Putin off his throne.
Very nice but not likely.
This time around after the way covid in Russia was handled it seems that civilians were less than impressed and it seems that Russians are not themselves wanting this war. Maybe there will be a revolt from within.
Let’s hope so. The consequences are going to be bad for the Russian people.
Date: 25/02/2022 00:07:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852416
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian helicopter shot down by Ukrainian defenders near Kyiv, where Russian forces have reportedly captured an airfield. Brief video.
(The tweet is mistaken – the “V” marking doesn’t signify a Belarusian unit, but Russian units stationed in Belarus).
https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1496814734426968066
Date: 25/02/2022 05:24:26
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852440
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
WTF do they want with Chernobyl? Unless they’re going to threaten to de-entomb it unless Ukraine complies…
Russia captures Chernobyl nuclear power plant after fierce battle, Ukrainian officials say
Russian forces have captured the Chernobyl nuclear power plant after a fierce battle, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhaylo Podolyak has said.
Podolyak said:
It is impossible to say the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is safe after a totally pointless attack by the Russians.
This is one of the most serious threats in Europe today.
Ukraine’s prime minister Volodymyr Zelensky also said the Chernobyl area near Kyiv was now under the control of Russian troops.
Date: 25/02/2022 05:36:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852441
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>The White House has released a statement from Joe Biden saying the G7 leaders have agreed to move forward on “devastating packages of sanctions”.
All this talk of “devastating” sanctions sounds like unnecessary and somewhat embarrassing hyperbole.
It would be more honest and in a way more helpful if they just said: “We’re not able to do anything that will actually make any difference to the fate of Ukraine, but we will at least protest with some sanctions and statements and so on.”
Date: 25/02/2022 05:36:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852442
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
WTF do they want with Chernobyl? Unless they’re going to threaten to de-entomb it unless Ukraine complies…
Russia captures Chernobyl nuclear power plant after fierce battle, Ukrainian officials say
Russian forces have captured the Chernobyl nuclear power plant after a fierce battle, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhaylo Podolyak has said.
Podolyak said:
It is impossible to say the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is safe after a totally pointless attack by the Russians.
This is one of the most serious threats in Europe today.
Ukraine’s prime minister Volodymyr Zelensky also said the Chernobyl area near Kyiv was now under the control of Russian troops.
Probably this
Notably, the zone surrounding Chernobyl includes the quickest route from Belarus, where Russian troops are suspected to be stationed, to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
https://greekreporter.com/2022/02/24/chernobyl-power-plant-russia-ukraine/
Date: 25/02/2022 05:40:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852443
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
WTF do they want with Chernobyl? Unless they’re going to threaten to de-entomb it unless Ukraine complies…
Russia captures Chernobyl nuclear power plant after fierce battle, Ukrainian officials say
Russian forces have captured the Chernobyl nuclear power plant after a fierce battle, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhaylo Podolyak has said.
Podolyak said:
It is impossible to say the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is safe after a totally pointless attack by the Russians.
This is one of the most serious threats in Europe today.
Ukraine’s prime minister Volodymyr Zelensky also said the Chernobyl area near Kyiv was now under the control of Russian troops.
Probably this
Notably, the zone surrounding Chernobyl includes the quickest route from Belarus, where Russian troops are suspected to be stationed, to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
https://greekreporter.com/2022/02/24/chernobyl-power-plant-russia-ukraine/
Nonetheless Putin is bound to use control of Chernobyl as another threat to Ukrainian resistance and to the wider world.
Date: 25/02/2022 05:41:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852444
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
>The White House has released a statement from Joe Biden saying the G7 leaders have agreed to move forward on “devastating packages of sanctions”.
All this talk of “devastating” sanctions sounds like unnecessary and somewhat embarrassing hyperbole.
It would be more honest and in a way more helpful if they just said: “We’re not able to do anything that will actually make any difference to the fate of Ukraine, but we will at least protest with some sanctions and statements and so on.”
They could speed up Ukraine joining NATO.
Date: 25/02/2022 05:41:59
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852445
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Beau
Let’s talk about Ukraine and Russia’s economy….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc6RhyW3KbM
Date: 25/02/2022 05:42:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852446
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
WTF do they want with Chernobyl? Unless they’re going to threaten to de-entomb it unless Ukraine complies…
Russia captures Chernobyl nuclear power plant after fierce battle, Ukrainian officials say
Russian forces have captured the Chernobyl nuclear power plant after a fierce battle, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhaylo Podolyak has said.
Podolyak said:
It is impossible to say the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is safe after a totally pointless attack by the Russians.
This is one of the most serious threats in Europe today.
Ukraine’s prime minister Volodymyr Zelensky also said the Chernobyl area near Kyiv was now under the control of Russian troops.
Probably this
Notably, the zone surrounding Chernobyl includes the quickest route from Belarus, where Russian troops are suspected to be stationed, to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
https://greekreporter.com/2022/02/24/chernobyl-power-plant-russia-ukraine/
Nonetheless Putin is bound to use control of Chernobyl as another threat to Ukrainian resistance and to the wider world.
I doubt it, the wind could easily blow dust towards Russia.
Date: 25/02/2022 05:43:08
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852447
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
WTF do they want with Chernobyl? Unless they’re going to threaten to de-entomb it unless Ukraine complies…
Russia captures Chernobyl nuclear power plant after fierce battle, Ukrainian officials say
Russian forces have captured the Chernobyl nuclear power plant after a fierce battle, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhaylo Podolyak has said.
Podolyak said:
It is impossible to say the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is safe after a totally pointless attack by the Russians.
This is one of the most serious threats in Europe today.
Ukraine’s prime minister Volodymyr Zelensky also said the Chernobyl area near Kyiv was now under the control of Russian troops.
fuck.
Date: 25/02/2022 05:47:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852448
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
>The White House has released a statement from Joe Biden saying the G7 leaders have agreed to move forward on “devastating packages of sanctions”.
All this talk of “devastating” sanctions sounds like unnecessary and somewhat embarrassing hyperbole.
It would be more honest and in a way more helpful if they just said: “We’re not able to do anything that will actually make any difference to the fate of Ukraine, but we will at least protest with some sanctions and statements and so on.”
They could speed up Ukraine joining NATO.
Ukraine has no hope of joining NATO now. Realistically Ukraine probably has only a short time left to exist.
Once the Russian offensive is complete, the Ukrainian government and civil and military institutions will be replaced by Russians and their appointed puppets.
It’s expected that huge numbers of Ukrainians will be arrested and interned, presumably in gulags somewhere.
Date: 25/02/2022 05:52:43
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852449
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Some Russians are making an effort to protest, but it seems they’re being arrested more-or-less immediately:
At least 705 people reportedly arrested at Russian anti-war protests
At least 705 people have been arrested today at anti-war protests that have taken place in 40 Russian cities, the OVD-Info protest monitor said.
The OVD-Info monitor has documented crackdowns on Russia’s opposition for years.

Date: 25/02/2022 05:55:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852450
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
>The White House has released a statement from Joe Biden saying the G7 leaders have agreed to move forward on “devastating packages of sanctions”.
All this talk of “devastating” sanctions sounds like unnecessary and somewhat embarrassing hyperbole.
It would be more honest and in a way more helpful if they just said: “We’re not able to do anything that will actually make any difference to the fate of Ukraine, but we will at least protest with some sanctions and statements and so on.”
They could speed up Ukraine joining NATO.
Ukraine has no hope of joining NATO now. Realistically Ukraine probably has only a short time left to exist.
Once the Russian offensive is complete, the Ukrainian government and civil and military institutions will be replaced by Russians and their appointed puppets.
It’s expected that huge numbers of Ukrainians will be arrested and interned, presumably in gulags somewhere.
Yes that’s a reasonable assessment. Its not looking good.
Date: 25/02/2022 06:05:38
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852451
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
>The White House has released a statement from Joe Biden saying the G7 leaders have agreed to move forward on “devastating packages of sanctions”.
All this talk of “devastating” sanctions sounds like unnecessary and somewhat embarrassing hyperbole.
It would be more honest and in a way more helpful if they just said: “We’re not able to do anything that will actually make any difference to the fate of Ukraine, but we will at least protest with some sanctions and statements and so on.”
The EU is unlikely to even kick Russia out of SWIFT:
Kyiv furious as EU wavers on banning Russia from Swift payment system
The EU faced furious remonstrations from Kyiv as Europe’s leaders looked set to hold back from imposing the potentially most damaging sanction on Russia, even as the Kremlin lay siege to Ukraine via land, air and sea.
Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, voiced his anger as EU heads of state and government appeared likely to decide against blocking Russia from an international payments system through which it receives foreign currency.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/kyiv-furious-as-eu-wavers-on-banning-russia-from-swift-payment-system
Date: 25/02/2022 06:14:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852452
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
>The White House has released a statement from Joe Biden saying the G7 leaders have agreed to move forward on “devastating packages of sanctions”.
All this talk of “devastating” sanctions sounds like unnecessary and somewhat embarrassing hyperbole.
It would be more honest and in a way more helpful if they just said: “We’re not able to do anything that will actually make any difference to the fate of Ukraine, but we will at least protest with some sanctions and statements and so on.”
The EU is unlikely to even kick Russia out of SWIFT:
Kyiv furious as EU wavers on banning Russia from Swift payment system
The EU faced furious remonstrations from Kyiv as Europe’s leaders looked set to hold back from imposing the potentially most damaging sanction on Russia, even as the Kremlin lay siege to Ukraine via land, air and sea.
Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, voiced his anger as EU heads of state and government appeared likely to decide against blocking Russia from an international payments system through which it receives foreign currency.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/kyiv-furious-as-eu-wavers-on-banning-russia-from-swift-payment-system
It could still happen.
Date: 25/02/2022 06:28:37
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852453
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
In a rare act of public dissent against the war, the Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta has announced that its next edition will come out in Russian and Ukrainian languages.
Dmitry Muratov, the Nobel prize-winning editor of the paper, said that “together with our grief we feel shame” about a war that he directly blamed on Vladimir Putin.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/24/russia-invades-ukraine-declares-war-latest-news-live-updates-russian-invasion-vladimir-putin-explosions-bombing-kyiv-kharkiv
Brave man.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see the soldiers of the Russian forces refuse to to continue this invasion and take Putin off his throne.
What if they gave a war and nobody came.
Date: 25/02/2022 06:42:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852454
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Many seasoned observers are now questioning the sanity of this small but nasty old man:
Decision to invade Ukraine raises questions over Putin’s ‘sense of reality’
Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a catastrophic new European war, combined with the sheer weirdness of his recent public appearances, has raised questions in western capitals about the mental stability of the leader of a country with 6,000 nuclear warheads.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/putin-russian-president-ukraine-invasion-mental-fitness
Date: 25/02/2022 06:45:14
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852455
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Many seasoned observers are now questioning the sanity of this small but nasty old man:
Decision to invade Ukraine raises questions over Putin’s ‘sense of reality’
Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a catastrophic new European war, combined with the sheer weirdness of his recent public appearances, has raised questions in western capitals about the mental stability of the leader of a country with 6,000 nuclear warheads.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/putin-russian-president-ukraine-invasion-mental-fitness
He has without a doubt lost his mind.
Hopefully his fellow countrymen can get at him and depose him.
Date: 25/02/2022 06:50:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852456
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
Many seasoned observers are now questioning the sanity of this small but nasty old man:
Decision to invade Ukraine raises questions over Putin’s ‘sense of reality’
Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a catastrophic new European war, combined with the sheer weirdness of his recent public appearances, has raised questions in western capitals about the mental stability of the leader of a country with 6,000 nuclear warheads.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/putin-russian-president-ukraine-invasion-mental-fitness
He has without a doubt lost his mind.
Hopefully his fellow countrymen can get at him and depose him.
It would be very difficult since he’s spent decades installing his own “placemen” (paid loyalists) in all positions of power and influence, while locking up or murdering real opponents.
Date: 25/02/2022 06:52:05
From: dv
ID: 1852457
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
Many seasoned observers are now questioning the sanity of this small but nasty old man:
Decision to invade Ukraine raises questions over Putin’s ‘sense of reality’
Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a catastrophic new European war, combined with the sheer weirdness of his recent public appearances, has raised questions in western capitals about the mental stability of the leader of a country with 6,000 nuclear warheads.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/putin-russian-president-ukraine-invasion-mental-fitness
He has without a doubt lost his mind.
Hopefully his fellow countrymen can get at him and depose him.
It would be very difficult since he’s spent decades installing his own “placemen” (paid loyalists) in all positions of power and influence, while locking up or murdering real opponents.
I mean I don’t know much about the reality of the situation in Russia but surely there is some hope that the other wealthy people in Russia are worried they’ll lose all their clout due to sanctions and will work to bring Putin down.
Date: 25/02/2022 06:53:45
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852459
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
Many seasoned observers are now questioning the sanity of this small but nasty old man:
Decision to invade Ukraine raises questions over Putin’s ‘sense of reality’
Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a catastrophic new European war, combined with the sheer weirdness of his recent public appearances, has raised questions in western capitals about the mental stability of the leader of a country with 6,000 nuclear warheads.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/putin-russian-president-ukraine-invasion-mental-fitness
He has without a doubt lost his mind.
Hopefully his fellow countrymen can get at him and depose him.
It would be very difficult since he’s spent decades installing his own “placemen” (paid loyalists) in all positions of power and influence, while locking up or murdering real opponents.
Yes. He should have been stopped years ago.
Maybe we should hope he goes bear hunting again and never comes back.
Date: 25/02/2022 06:56:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852460
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
He has without a doubt lost his mind.
Hopefully his fellow countrymen can get at him and depose him.
It would be very difficult since he’s spent decades installing his own “placemen” (paid loyalists) in all positions of power and influence, while locking up or murdering real opponents.
I mean I don’t know much about the reality of the situation in Russia but surely there is some hope that the other wealthy people in Russia are worried they’ll lose all their clout due to sanctions and will work to bring Putin down.
I’m no expert either, but there’s not much talk of such possibilities in the commentary so far.
This piece by Putin specialist Angus Roxburgh is pretty bleak:
Can anyone in Russia stop Putin now?
With opposition outlawed and a parliament full of placemen, all the flickering lights of reason in the Kremlin have gone
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin
Date: 25/02/2022 06:56:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852461
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Perhaps one good long range outcome..
Energy experts say any attempts by Moscow to cut off European gas supplies are likely to backfire by fast-tracking the continent’s shift away from fossil fuels towards renewable power.
Date: 25/02/2022 07:04:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852463
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
It would be very difficult since he’s spent decades installing his own “placemen” (paid loyalists) in all positions of power and influence, while locking up or murdering real opponents.
I mean I don’t know much about the reality of the situation in Russia but surely there is some hope that the other wealthy people in Russia are worried they’ll lose all their clout due to sanctions and will work to bring Putin down.
I’m no expert either, but there’s not much talk of such possibilities in the commentary so far.
This piece by Putin specialist Angus Roxburgh is pretty bleak:
Can anyone in Russia stop Putin now?
With opposition outlawed and a parliament full of placemen, all the flickering lights of reason in the Kremlin have gone
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin
In that case, nobody innocent will die if a tactical MOAB attack on the Kremlin demolishes the place.
Date: 25/02/2022 07:26:35
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852464
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Follow
War in Ukraine brings rare sight in Russia: Protests in dozens of cities against Putin and the attacks
Robyn Dixon 1 hr ago
MOSCOW — Thousands of people protested President Vladimir Putin’s attacks on Ukraine in cities across Russia in a striking show of anger in a nation where spontaneous mass demonstrations are illegal and protesters can face fines and jail.
Police officers detain demonstrators in Moscow, Feb. 24, 2022, after Russia’s attack on Ukraine.© Dmitry Serebryakov/AP Police officers detain demonstrators in Moscow, Feb. 24, 2022, after Russia’s attack on Ukraine.
More than 1,000 people were arrested in 47 cities across the nation, according to rights group OVD-Info. The group was declared a foreign agent last year, when Putin launched a sweeping crackdown on activists, rights groups and opposition figures.
The protests came with an outpouring of horror from liberal Russians, social media influencers, sportspeople, actors, television presenters and others.
Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny Thursday spoke out against the war during a court hearing, as members of the Russian political elite either remained silent or celebrated.
Navalny was appearing via video link in court on charges of fraud, one of several cases against him, after he was nearly fatally poisoned with a chemical weapon by Russian security agents in 2020 and jailed in 2021 upon returning to Russia following medical treatment for the poisoning in Germany. His political organization was banned as extremist last year. He calls the charges against him political.
“I have no method of communicating with the outside world,” Navalny said via video link at Lefortovo District Court hearing. “I ask that my appeal to the court and to the world be recorded.
“I am against this war. I believe that this war between Russia and Ukraine is being waged to cover up the robbery of Russian citizens and to distract their attention from the problems that exist within the country, from the degradation of the economy.”
He said the war would lead to many casualties and ruined lives. Navalny said, “this group that has now seized power” was waging war to cling to the spoils of office, including palaces in Moscow and on the Black Sea.
His arrest a year ago provoked the biggest protests seen in Russia in cities across the country. On Thursday, the anger and dismay for many Russians was just as visceral, although many were afraid to risk a criminal record and jail for taking to the streets.
With Putin’s moves to crush dissent, including a bar on critical reporting of the military and security agencies, analysts predicted the protests would probably be swiftly curtailed. Last year, many activists and opposition figures were either jailed, placed under house arrest or forced to flee the country to avoid prison.
About 1,000 protesters rallied in central Moscow, chanting “No to war,” with some of them carrying antiwar banners. Riot police closed in quickly, forcing them into police vans. Large protests took place in other cities such as St Petersburg, Yekaterinburg and Perm.
Russia’s Investigative Committee warned it would track down protest organizers and participants, threatening “severe punishment for mass riots.”
At least 290 people were arrested in Moscow, 128 in St Petersburg, 50 in Perm and 37 in Yekaterinburg, OVD-Info reported. More than 290,000 people signed a petition against the war on change.org.
Marina Agaltsova, a lawyer with Memorial, said those who did protest were extremely brave, adding that “Russians are deeply terrified of arrests and court trials over rallying people to go out and protest.”
Human rights activist Marina Litvinovich urged Russians not to cry and “not to be afraid, but to but just come out and say that they are against the war,” in comments on social media. Calling on people to protest is an offense under Russia’s restrictive laws.
Exiled Russian businessman Mikhail Khodorkovsky, a Putin critic jailed in 2005 for 10 years on charges of fraud, said anyone who helped “this junta” was a war criminal.
“I urge you to do everything possible, everyone in their place, to stop the war!” he wrote on Telegram.
Comedian and television presenter Maxim Galkin wrote on Instagram, “There can be no excuse for war! No war!”
Ivan Urgant, a presenter and actor on state television, posted on Instagram, “Fear and pain. NO WAR.”
Liberal political analyst Vladimir Pastukhov called the attacks on Ukraine “the mistake of the whole nation,” of Russia in a commentary on Echo of Moscow radio website.
“The price will be incredibly high, which is frightening to think about. This is a war already lost by Putin … The occupation of Ukraine, direct or indirect, would be a noose around Russia’s neck.”
Ekaterina Schulmann, a prominent liberal political analyst and journalist, said everyone was afraid and urged people to speak out after “the deafening silence of the initial horror.
“Our old life is gone, and a new life is coming. It’s poorer, more dangerous, and more limited, but that’s no reason to change your principles. Good and evil do not change places just because our personal circumstances change,” she said.
Alexei Kouprianov, a data analyst who runs a St Petersburg Facebook information page on covid-19, condemned Russia’s aggression and “expressed solidarity with Ukrainians, guilt and remorse.”
“I regret we failed to overthrow the regime before it went too far,” he said.
Date: 25/02/2022 07:38:36
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852465
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
It would be very difficult since he’s spent decades installing his own “placemen” (paid loyalists) in all positions of power and influence, while locking up or murdering real opponents.
I mean I don’t know much about the reality of the situation in Russia but surely there is some hope that the other wealthy people in Russia are worried they’ll lose all their clout due to sanctions and will work to bring Putin down.
I’m no expert either, but there’s not much talk of such possibilities in the commentary so far.
This piece by Putin specialist Angus Roxburgh is pretty bleak:
Can anyone in Russia stop Putin now?
With opposition outlawed and a parliament full of placemen, all the flickering lights of reason in the Kremlin have gone
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin
I believe if there is enough ground swell , his regime will topple within its own territory , once the people realise they are the majority, the armed forces can turn this around for the same reason. The world doesn’t want a war for sure but his pressure on the border of Ukraine will have a domino affect because Putin would do the same to the nations beyond Ukraine, this would certainly be a longer term problem. If there is mass riots across the entire nation it will be impossible for Putin to control Russia and what is going on in Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 07:43:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852466
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
I mean I don’t know much about the reality of the situation in Russia but surely there is some hope that the other wealthy people in Russia are worried they’ll lose all their clout due to sanctions and will work to bring Putin down.
I’m no expert either, but there’s not much talk of such possibilities in the commentary so far.
This piece by Putin specialist Angus Roxburgh is pretty bleak:
Can anyone in Russia stop Putin now?
With opposition outlawed and a parliament full of placemen, all the flickering lights of reason in the Kremlin have gone
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin
I believe if there is enough ground swell , his regime will topple within its own territory , once the people realise they are the majority, the armed forces can turn this around for the same reason. The world doesn’t want a war for sure but his pressure on the border of Ukraine will have a domino affect because Putin would do the same to the nations beyond Ukraine, this would certainly be a longer term problem. If there is mass riots across the entire nation it will be impossible for Putin to control Russia and what is going on in Ukraine
Who knows, maybe we’ll see a resurgence of People Power. It’s not impossible.
You’d think in this modern internet age and with more Russians able to read/speak English, they’d have a better idea of the real world beyond the state-controlled media.
But I’m not holding my breath :/
Date: 25/02/2022 07:53:28
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852467
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
I mean I don’t know much about the reality of the situation in Russia but surely there is some hope that the other wealthy people in Russia are worried they’ll lose all their clout due to sanctions and will work to bring Putin down.
I’m no expert either, but there’s not much talk of such possibilities in the commentary so far.
This piece by Putin specialist Angus Roxburgh is pretty bleak:
Can anyone in Russia stop Putin now?
With opposition outlawed and a parliament full of placemen, all the flickering lights of reason in the Kremlin have gone
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin
I believe if there is enough ground swell , his regime will topple within its own territory , once the people realise they are the majority, the armed forces can turn this around for the same reason. The world doesn’t want a war for sure but his pressure on the border of Ukraine will have a domino affect because Putin would do the same to the nations beyond Ukraine, this would certainly be a longer term problem. If there is mass riots across the entire nation it will be impossible for Putin to control Russia and what is going on in Ukraine
He cannot poison or incarcerate everyone. Particularly while his armed forces are elsewhere.
Date: 25/02/2022 07:54:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852468
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
monkey skipper said:
Bubblecar said:
I’m no expert either, but there’s not much talk of such possibilities in the commentary so far.
This piece by Putin specialist Angus Roxburgh is pretty bleak:
Can anyone in Russia stop Putin now?
With opposition outlawed and a parliament full of placemen, all the flickering lights of reason in the Kremlin have gone
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin
I believe if there is enough ground swell , his regime will topple within its own territory , once the people realise they are the majority, the armed forces can turn this around for the same reason. The world doesn’t want a war for sure but his pressure on the border of Ukraine will have a domino affect because Putin would do the same to the nations beyond Ukraine, this would certainly be a longer term problem. If there is mass riots across the entire nation it will be impossible for Putin to control Russia and what is going on in Ukraine
Who knows, maybe we’ll see a resurgence of People Power. It’s not impossible.
You’d think in this modern internet age and with more Russians able to read/speak English, they’d have a better idea of the real world beyond the state-controlled media.
But I’m not holding my breath :/
Please don’t hold your breath. This is going to take longer than two minutes.
Date: 25/02/2022 08:05:10
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852471
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
He cannot poison or incarcerate everyone. Particularly while his armed forces are elsewhere.
He has his own personal National Guard of some 340,000 troops, the internal military force of the Russian Federation that reports directly to Putin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_Russia
Date: 25/02/2022 09:15:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852478
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Heavy combat unfolding in the old Cossack town of Sumy.
Brief video
Date: 25/02/2022 09:27:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852480
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Old Ukrainian Cossack fighting song:
Ukrainian Folk Song – Хай живе, вільна Україна (Long live, free Ukraine!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5MyOZ4VQRk
Date: 25/02/2022 10:02:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852489
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kharkiv subway tonight, citizens sheltering from Russian air raids. Like the Blitz but a bit more stylish.

Date: 25/02/2022 10:08:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852491
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Kharkiv subway tonight, citizens sheltering from Russian air raids. Like the Blitz but a bit more stylish.

Those people get phone signal in the subway station?
Date: 25/02/2022 10:09:25
From: sibeen
ID: 1852492
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Kharkiv subway tonight, citizens sheltering from Russian air raids. Like the Blitz but a bit more stylish.

Those people get phone signal in the subway station?
I do in Melbourne.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:11:22
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1852493
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Kharkiv subway tonight, citizens sheltering from Russian air raids. Like the Blitz but a bit more stylish.

Those people get phone signal in the subway station?
I do in Melbourne.
just like how we get phone and radio signals in tunnels all over the world.. we have the technology.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:15:04
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1852494
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:17:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852495
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
sibeen said:
captain_spalding said:
Those people get phone signal in the subway station?
I do in Melbourne.
just like how we get phone and radio signals in tunnels all over the world.. we have the technology.
Yeah, i know it can e done these days. I’m a bit behind the times with Australian subways, don’t use them often
I remember, back in the late 90s, there was an episode of ‘The X-Files’ where Mulder was inside the steel tank of a railway tanker car, which was buried (except for the hatch) in a desert at the base of a cliff.
And he was able to call Scully on his mobile phone.
‘Now, that’s a mobile phone service’, i thought.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:18:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852496
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
That’s Putin’s outlook, too.
‘Oh, so you don’t like it? So, do something about it.”
Date: 25/02/2022 10:19:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852497
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
It was clear that Putin intended to invade. It was to me anyway. Perfect timing on his part.
Not that I agree nor that I think he will achieve much by the insanity.
The fact remains that he believes he can do it and this in itself is basically untouchable.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:20:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852499
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
diddly-squat said:
sibeen said:
I do in Melbourne.
just like how we get phone and radio signals in tunnels all over the world.. we have the technology.
Yeah, i know it can e done these days. I’m a bit behind the times with Australian subways, don’t use them often
I remember, back in the late 90s, there was an episode of ‘The X-Files’ where Mulder was inside the steel tank of a railway tanker car, which was buried (except for the hatch) in a desert at the base of a cliff.
And he was able to call Scully on his mobile phone.
‘Now, that’s a mobile phone service’, i thought.
They don’t work in dugouts or in opal mines.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:22:15
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1852500
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
diddly-squat said:
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
That’s Putin’s outlook, too.
‘Oh, so you don’t like it? So, do something about it.”
will be interesting to see if this further emboldens other countries, like for instance China when it comes to places like Taiwan
Date: 25/02/2022 10:23:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852501
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
captain_spalding said:
diddly-squat said:
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
That’s Putin’s outlook, too.
‘Oh, so you don’t like it? So, do something about it.”
will be interesting to see if this further emboldens other countries, like for instance China when it comes to places like Taiwan
Stan Grant had stuff to say about that.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:24:43
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1852502
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
diddly-squat said:
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
It was clear that Putin intended to invade. It was to me anyway. Perfect timing on his part.
Not that I agree nor that I think he will achieve much by the insanity.
The fact remains that he believes he can do it and this in itself is basically untouchable.
well you are in the minority, the vast majority of observers felt he wouldn’t push things this far and in fact, many are not even sure they fully understand his motivations to do it.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:24:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852503
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 10:27:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852504
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
roughbarked said:
diddly-squat said:
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
It was clear that Putin intended to invade. It was to me anyway. Perfect timing on his part.
Not that I agree nor that I think he will achieve much by the insanity.
The fact remains that he believes he can do it and this in itself is basically untouchable.
well you are in the minority, the vast majority of observers felt he wouldn’t push things this far and in fact, many are not even sure they fully understand his motivations to do it.
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:31:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852505
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
diddly-squat said:
roughbarked said:
It was clear that Putin intended to invade. It was to me anyway. Perfect timing on his part.
Not that I agree nor that I think he will achieve much by the insanity.
The fact remains that he believes he can do it and this in itself is basically untouchable.
well you are in the minority, the vast majority of observers felt he wouldn’t push things this far and in fact, many are not even sure they fully understand his motivations to do it.
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
Yeah, i bet that that Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are sweating like cats in a Chinese restaurant.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:33:57
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852506
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
diddly-squat said:
well you are in the minority, the vast majority of observers felt he wouldn’t push things this far and in fact, many are not even sure they fully understand his motivations to do it.
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
Yeah, i bet that that Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are sweating like cats in a Chinese restaurant.
true dat.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:41:13
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1852507
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
diddly-squat said:
roughbarked said:
It was clear that Putin intended to invade. It was to me anyway. Perfect timing on his part.
Not that I agree nor that I think he will achieve much by the insanity.
The fact remains that he believes he can do it and this in itself is basically untouchable.
well you are in the minority, the vast majority of observers felt he wouldn’t push things this far and in fact, many are not even sure they fully understand his motivations to do it.
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
historically he’s been very risk adverse
Date: 25/02/2022 10:46:38
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852508
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
One of the most well-known Ukrainian Cossack songs, Їхав козак за Дунай (The Cossack Rode over the Danube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iT54oRUUz0
Date: 25/02/2022 10:48:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852509
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
roughbarked said:
diddly-squat said:
well you are in the minority, the vast majority of observers felt he wouldn’t push things this far and in fact, many are not even sure they fully understand his motivations to do it.
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
historically he’s been very risk adverse
He’s been biding his time and building his might.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:49:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852510
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
One of the most well-known Ukrainian Cossack songs, Їхав козак за Дунай (The Cossack Rode over the Danube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iT54oRUUz0
I like the songs. Can’t understand the lyrics or read the comments.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:49:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852511
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
roughbarked said:
diddly-squat said:
well you are in the minority, the vast majority of observers felt he wouldn’t push things this far and in fact, many are not even sure they fully understand his motivations to do it.
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
historically he’s been very risk adverse
What history are you reading? He’s been biting bits off Ukraine for the past 8 years.
Date: 25/02/2022 10:52:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852512
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
One of the most well-known Ukrainian Cossack songs, Їхав козак за Дунай (The Cossack Rode over the Danube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iT54oRUUz0
I like the songs. Can’t understand the lyrics or read the comments.
English translation:
The Cossack rode over the Danube,
He said: “farewell, my sweetheart”
You, my black horse,
Lead on and march!
“Wait, wait, my Cossack,
your girl is crying,
How can you leave her,
Just think about it.”
Refrain:
Maybe, maybe it would have been better not to leave,
Maybe, maybe it would have been better not to love,
Maybe, maybe it would have been better to not know her
And now, and now is time to forget.
She came out, covering face with hands in despair,
And with a little cry:
“How can you leave me,
Just think about it.”
“Don’t cover your face with your white hands,
Don’t rub your bright eyes,
Coming from war in glory
I shall meet you again”
Refrain
“I do not want anyone
Except for only you,
Take care, my sweetheart,
nothing else matters.”
The Cossack whistled on a horse,
“You must take care!
If I won’t die, I will return
In three years’ time!”
Date: 25/02/2022 10:53:12
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852513
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
diddly-squat said:
roughbarked said:
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
historically he’s been very risk adverse
What history are you reading? He’s been biting bits off Ukraine for the past 8 years.
He probably meant that every risk that was posed, Poo-Tin silenced it.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:02:36
From: Michael V
ID: 1852515
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
captain_spalding said:
diddly-squat said:
I’m really surprised by how this has played out, but I suspect the West will be incredibly frustrated by their inability to affect any change on the ground in Ukraine.
That’s Putin’s outlook, too.
‘Oh, so you don’t like it? So, do something about it.”
will be interesting to see if this further emboldens other countries, like for instance China when it comes to places like Taiwan
Yep.
Frightening, too.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:05:06
From: Michael V
ID: 1852516
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
diddly-squat said:
roughbarked said:
He’s a loony but he also sees that the world isn’t in a position to prevent a full scale land grab. He’s not finished yet.
historically he’s been very risk adverse
What history are you reading? He’s been biting bits off Ukraine for the past 8 years.
And don’t forget Georgia.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:05:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852517
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:

triple brick kindergarten damn
Date: 25/02/2022 11:06:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852518
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Every single soldier guarding Zmiinyi Island, or Snake Island, in the Black Sea has died, Zelenskiy said.
The Ukrainian president said he will honor the soldiers posthumously.
Reportedly audio from Snake Island in Black Sea:
-This is a Russian military ship. I suggest you lay down your weapons and surrender to avoid bloodshed and unnecessary victims. Otherwise we will open fire on you.
-Russian military ship, go fuck yourself.
They were all killed

Date: 25/02/2022 11:07:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852519
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
One of the most well-known Ukrainian Cossack songs, Їхав козак за Дунай (The Cossack Rode over the Danube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iT54oRUUz0
I like the songs. Can’t understand the lyrics or read the comments.
English translation:
The Cossack rode over the Danube,
He said: “farewell, my sweetheart”
You, my black horse,
Lead on and march!
“Wait, wait, my Cossack,
your girl is crying,
How can you leave her,
Just think about it.”
Refrain:
Maybe, maybe it would have been better not to leave,
Maybe, maybe it would have been better not to love,
Maybe, maybe it would have been better to not know her
And now, and now is time to forget.
She came out, covering face with hands in despair,
And with a little cry:
“How can you leave me,
Just think about it.”
“Don’t cover your face with your white hands,
Don’t rub your bright eyes,
Coming from war in glory
I shall meet you again”
Refrain
“I do not want anyone
Except for only you,
Take care, my sweetheart,
nothing else matters.”
The Cossack whistled on a horse,
“You must take care!
If I won’t die, I will return
In three years’ time!”
Thanks mate.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:08:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852520
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
diddly-squat said:
captain_spalding said:
That’s Putin’s outlook, too.
‘Oh, so you don’t like it? So, do something about it.”
will be interesting to see if this further emboldens other countries, like for instance China when it comes to places like Taiwan
Yep.
Frightening, too.
so not only is it a proxy war, it’s a rehearsal as well
Date: 25/02/2022 11:10:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852521
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Every single soldier guarding Zmiinyi Island, or Snake Island, in the Black Sea has died, Zelenskiy said.
The Ukrainian president said he will honor the soldiers posthumously.
Reportedly audio from Snake Island in Black Sea:
-This is a Russian military ship. I suggest you lay down your weapons and surrender to avoid bloodshed and unnecessary victims. Otherwise we will open fire on you.
-Russian military ship, go fuck yourself.
They were all killed

If they so thoughtless of humanity can do that for a useless bit of dirt, think what they’ll do to grab better bits.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:12:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852522
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
Every single soldier guarding Zmiinyi Island, or Snake Island, in the Black Sea has died, Zelenskiy said.
The Ukrainian president said he will honor the soldiers posthumously.
Reportedly audio from Snake Island in Black Sea:
-This is a Russian military ship. I suggest you lay down your weapons and surrender to avoid bloodshed and unnecessary victims. Otherwise we will open fire on you.
-Russian military ship, go fuck yourself.
They were all killed

If they so thoughtless of humanity can do that for a useless bit of dirt, think what they’ll do to grab better bits.
negotiate diplomatically
Date: 25/02/2022 11:12:40
From: sibeen
ID: 1852523
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
diddly-squat said:
historically he’s been very risk adverse
What history are you reading? He’s been biting bits off Ukraine for the past 8 years.
And don’t forget Georgia.
It’s always on my mind.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:14:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852524
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
What history are you reading? He’s been biting bits off Ukraine for the past 8 years.
And don’t forget Georgia.
It’s always on my mind.
we’re leaving on that midnight train
Date: 25/02/2022 11:14:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852525
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
What history are you reading? He’s been biting bits off Ukraine for the past 8 years.
And don’t forget Georgia.
It’s always on my mind.
Gawd. Now that song will be going around in my head.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:14:35
From: Michael V
ID: 1852526
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
What history are you reading? He’s been biting bits off Ukraine for the past 8 years.
And don’t forget Georgia.
It’s always on my mind.
I hoped someone would run with it.
:)
Date: 25/02/2022 11:16:54
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852527
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
Every single soldier guarding Zmiinyi Island, or Snake Island, in the Black Sea has died, Zelenskiy said.
The Ukrainian president said he will honor the soldiers posthumously.
Reportedly audio from Snake Island in Black Sea:
-This is a Russian military ship. I suggest you lay down your weapons and surrender to avoid bloodshed and unnecessary victims. Otherwise we will open fire on you.
-Russian military ship, go fuck yourself.
They were all killed

If they so thoughtless of humanity can do that for a useless bit of dirt, think what they’ll do to grab better bits.
It’s just a little marine research centre. Thirteen Ukrainian soldiers guarding it, reportedly all killed for telling a Russian warship to fuck off.
Date: 25/02/2022 11:52:07
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852529
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Gallery of Russian anti-war protesters, many being arrested by monkey-man Putin’s goons.
Anti-war protests across Russia – in pictures
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2022/feb/25/anti-war-protests-across-russia-in-pictures

Date: 25/02/2022 12:02:32
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852532
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
CHINA pretends it’s the UN itself
China has rejected calling Russia’s moves on Ukraine an “invasion” and urged all sides to exercise restraint, even as it advised its citizens there to stay home or at least take the precaution of displaying a Chinese flag if they needed to drive anywhere.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-25/china-refuses-to-call-russian-actions-in-ukraine-an-invasion/100859492
Date: 25/02/2022 12:23:31
From: party_pants
ID: 1852534
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
CHINA pretends it’s the UN itself
China has rejected calling Russia’s moves on Ukraine an “invasion” and urged all sides to exercise restraint, even as it advised its citizens there to stay home or at least take the precaution of displaying a Chinese flag if they needed to drive anywhere.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-25/china-refuses-to-call-russian-actions-in-ukraine-an-invasion/100859492
the time for restraint is over. Russia must be punished.
Date: 25/02/2022 12:24:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852535
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 12:28:51
From: party_pants
ID: 1852536
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Globalisation is dead. Certain countries cannot be trusted to participate.
Date: 25/02/2022 13:24:12
From: buffy
ID: 1852549
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Person on NewsRadio (or whatever it is called at the moment) this morning advised being very, very cautious about social media clips and photos wrt what is going on. His example was of “Russian planes” supposedly flying over one of the main cities, which was actually footage of an airshow somewhere sometime. The first casualty of war is truth.
Date: 25/02/2022 13:35:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852551
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
Person on NewsRadio (or whatever it is called at the moment) this morning advised being very, very cautious about social media clips and photos wrt what is going on. His example was of “Russian planes” supposedly flying over one of the main cities, which was actually footage of an airshow somewhere sometime. The first casualty of war is truth.
Noted.
Date: 25/02/2022 13:44:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852554
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
buffy said:
Person on NewsRadio (or whatever it is called at the moment) this morning advised being very, very cautious about social media clips and photos wrt what is going on. His example was of “Russian planes” supposedly flying over one of the main cities, which was actually footage of an airshow somewhere sometime. The first casualty of war is truth.
Noted.
on the other hand in peacetime people might still occasionally relabel footage might they not
Date: 25/02/2022 15:24:24
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852611
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tulsi Gabbard is all in for Russia. No surprises there.
Date: 25/02/2022 15:32:47
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1852622
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Not a complete walkover, at least:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/russian-heliborne-assault-on-antonov-hostomel-airport-seems-to-have-failed/
Well, it seems the Russian heliborne assault on Antonov/Gostomel/Hostomel Airport, 15km NW of Kiev, ended in a complete catastrophe.
Not only that the VKS paid a hefty price just to bring the airborne troops to their target (it lost 6-7 helicopters, including two confirmed Ka-52s; several of these to Ukrainian MiG-29s), but then the expected para-jump didn’t take place. Obviously, the Ukrainian air defences are still up, and the Russians couldn’t fly in the expected 18-20 Il-76s.
The Russian VDV held out as long as supported by their air force, this afternoon. But, later on, the 4th Rapid Response Brigade of the Ukrainian National Guard counterattacked with support from the Ukrainian Air Force (the photo in this post shows an Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-24M bombing the Russians there).
What was left of the VDV was then finished by the 45th (Ukrainian) Spetsnaz Brigade: few survivors scattered and run away into the nearby forests.
Date: 25/02/2022 16:03:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852641
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Not a complete walkover, at least:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/russian-heliborne-assault-on-antonov-hostomel-airport-seems-to-have-failed/
Well, it seems the Russian heliborne assault on Antonov/Gostomel/Hostomel Airport, 15km NW of Kiev, ended in a complete catastrophe.
Not only that the VKS paid a hefty price just to bring the airborne troops to their target (it lost 6-7 helicopters, including two confirmed Ka-52s; several of these to Ukrainian MiG-29s), but then the expected para-jump didn’t take place. Obviously, the Ukrainian air defences are still up, and the Russians couldn’t fly in the expected 18-20 Il-76s.
The Russian VDV held out as long as supported by their air force, this afternoon. But, later on, the 4th Rapid Response Brigade of the Ukrainian National Guard counterattacked with support from the Ukrainian Air Force (the photo in this post shows an Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-24M bombing the Russians there).
What was left of the VDV was then finished by the 45th (Ukrainian) Spetsnaz Brigade: few survivors scattered and run away into the nearby forests.
I note that some satellite images show the fuel dumps and infrastructure at airports blown but the planes and airstrip left intact.
Date: 25/02/2022 16:21:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852651
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 16:22:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852652
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 16:29:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852655
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-02-25/hacker-collective-anonymous-declares-cyber-war-against-russia/100861160
Hold onto your hats, ladies, war has now really been declared.
All we need now is some Ukranian bitcoin miners. Steal Vlad’s bitcoin.
Date: 25/02/2022 16:44:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852656
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-02-25/hacker-collective-anonymous-declares-cyber-war-against-russia/100861160
Hold onto your hats, ladies, war has now really been declared.
All we need now is some Ukranian bitcoin miners. Steal Vlad’s bitcoin.
Yeah steal Vlad’s money, all of it, and give it to the poor.
Date: 25/02/2022 16:56:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852658
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In reality, Russia hasn’t been invaded or threatened by NATO. Not ever.
In historical fact, Russia has done way more invading than being invaded.
Date: 25/02/2022 16:58:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852659
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 17:03:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852660
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 17:05:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852661
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-25/vladimir-putin-may-not-have-russian-support-for-ukraine-invasion/100861320
He should have held a referendum.
Ha. He’d have to execute all the naysayers.
Date: 25/02/2022 17:06:09
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852662
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 17:06:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852663
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-25/vladimir-putin-may-not-have-russian-support-for-ukraine-invasion/100861320
He should have held a referendum.
Ha. He’d have to execute all the naysayers.
Yep.
Date: 25/02/2022 17:23:00
From: dv
ID: 1852669
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 17:24:58
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852670
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

:)
Date: 25/02/2022 17:50:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852675
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
so tanks coming for the capital eh, no worries
Whatever was shot down over Kyiv was pretty big
https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497039189740859419
Date: 25/02/2022 18:14:13
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852676
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Media Release Bob Brown Foundation
25/02/2022
RUSSIA SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF ROLE AS CHAIR AND HOST OF THE 2022 WORLD HERITAGE COMMITTEE MEETING
Conservationists call on UNESCO to shift World Heritage meeting to Paris
The Bob Brown Foundation has called on UNESCO to strip Russia of its role as chair and host of the World Heritage Committee in response to the invasion of Ukraine. The Committee’s meeting is scheduled for the Russian city of Kazan in late June, but the BBF said it should be shifted to Paris under the Director-General of UNESCO.
“Russia has forfeited the right to chair and host this year’s meeting of the World Heritage Committee,” said Bob Brown Foundation spokesperson, Geoff Law. “President Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine violates UNESCO’s mission to foster peace through science, culture and education.”
The World Heritage List is UNESCO’s flagship. Each year, the Committee meets to deliberate on the protection and management of over 1100 World Heritage properties that include the Tasmanian Wilderness and Great Barrier Reef. There are seven World Heritage properties in the Ukraine.
“With its despicable invasion of a neighbouring country, Russia has lost its legitimacy as a member of UNESCO and signatory of the World Heritage Convention,” said Mr Law, who has attended seven meetings of the World Heritage Committee.
“It’s no longer appropriate for people who subscribe to the peaceable objectives of UNESCO to travel to a country whose leadership is carrying out an unprovoked war of aggression.”
Date: 25/02/2022 18:14:53
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852677
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
we like a bit of personal individual responsibility
Defence Minister Peter Dutton says China could persuade Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the invasion
Date: 25/02/2022 18:18:09
From: dv
ID: 1852678
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
we like a bit of personal individual responsibility
Defence Minister Peter Dutton says China could persuade Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the invasion
Well we’re on great terms with them so I guess we can just ask
Date: 25/02/2022 18:18:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852680
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
we like a bit of personal individual responsibility
Defence Minister Peter Dutton says China could persuade Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the invasion
Defence Minister Peter Dutton says listen to me, don’t i sound just like the right material to be boss of the Libs.
Date: 25/02/2022 18:49:46
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852682
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
will this mean Israel gets sanctioned
Date: 25/02/2022 18:54:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852684
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
Date: 25/02/2022 18:59:06
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1852686
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
Would have thought it more likely that they would get shot by their own side.
Date: 25/02/2022 19:02:38
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852689
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Bubblecar said:
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
Would have thought it more likely that they would get shot by their own side.
right but they know in advance who’s going in dressed up whereas Ukraine haven’t necessarily captured masses of Russian equipment
Date: 25/02/2022 19:04:04
From: Woodie
ID: 1852690
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
All look very quiet ATM, Parpyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIPNVm6lNfM Live.
Date: 25/02/2022 19:04:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852691
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Using 20 year olds so they don’t object so much like the older troops might.
Date: 25/02/2022 19:04:53
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1852692
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
PermeateFree said:
Bubblecar said:
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
Would have thought it more likely that they would get shot by their own side.
right but they know in advance who’s going in dressed up whereas Ukraine haven’t necessarily captured masses of Russian equipment
Thought swopping uniforms was against every principle of war.
Date: 25/02/2022 19:08:33
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1852694
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
That didn’t take long.
Date: 25/02/2022 19:32:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852701
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
That didn’t take long.
30 years
Date: 25/02/2022 19:37:57
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1852703
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Media Release Bob Brown Foundation
25/02/2022
RUSSIA SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF ROLE AS CHAIR AND HOST OF THE 2022 WORLD HERITAGE COMMITTEE MEETING
Conservationists call on UNESCO to shift World Heritage meeting to Paris
The Bob Brown Foundation has called on UNESCO to strip Russia of its role as chair and host of the World Heritage Committee in response to the invasion of Ukraine. The Committee’s meeting is scheduled for the Russian city of Kazan in late June, but the BBF said it should be shifted to Paris under the Director-General of UNESCO.
“Russia has forfeited the right to chair and host this year’s meeting of the World Heritage Committee,” said Bob Brown Foundation spokesperson, Geoff Law. “President Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine violates UNESCO’s mission to foster peace through science, culture and education.”
The World Heritage List is UNESCO’s flagship. Each year, the Committee meets to deliberate on the protection and management of over 1100 World Heritage properties that include the Tasmanian Wilderness and Great Barrier Reef. There are seven World Heritage properties in the Ukraine.
“With its despicable invasion of a neighbouring country, Russia has lost its legitimacy as a member of UNESCO and signatory of the World Heritage Convention,” said Mr Law, who has attended seven meetings of the World Heritage Committee.
“It’s no longer appropriate for people who subscribe to the peaceable objectives of UNESCO to travel to a country whose leadership is carrying out an unprovoked war of aggression.”
Yes it should be moved but why Paris in particular?
Date: 25/02/2022 19:44:23
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852704
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Russians now entering Kyiv, according to reports. Some wearing Ukrainian uniforms to confuse defenders.
That didn’t take long.
If I were a Russian soldier I’d be more wary of sniper grannys over the next 6 months than anything the uniformed Ukrainian military might do in the hours ahead.
Date: 25/02/2022 20:01:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852707
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
SCIENCE said:
PermeateFree said:
Would have thought it more likely that they would get shot by their own side.
right but they know in advance who’s going in dressed up whereas Ukraine haven’t necessarily captured masses of Russian equipment
Thought swopping uniforms was against every principle of war.
maybe not regular
Ukrainian military says Russian ‘spies,’ ‘saboteurs’ seen 3 miles from Kyiv as invasion presses toward Ukrainian capital
Reporting by Associated Press
Date: 25/02/2022 20:04:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852708
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ah well how progress and human development have changed the world for the better over 80 years

Date: 25/02/2022 20:05:23
From: dv
ID: 1852709
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Confused Trump believes US has invaded Ukraine in Fox call-in
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/confused-trump-believes-us-has-invaded-ukraine-in-fox-call-in/ar-AAUfV27?ocid=msedgntp
Date: 25/02/2022 20:07:57
From: dv
ID: 1852710
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
will this mean Israel gets sanctioned
lol
Date: 25/02/2022 20:51:52
From: dv
ID: 1852715
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine


Can’t quite stop himself from blaming NATO and the EU.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:03:33
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852719
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Can’t quite stop himself from blaming NATO and the EU.
right but no serious voices have ever argued that Russian interference in USUK elections has resulted in the shitfest that eventuated over the past decade
obviously we all know who the real interfering agents are, we’ve been told many times
Date: 25/02/2022 21:04:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852720
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
ah well how progress and human development have changed the world for the better over 80 years

After the blitzkrieg passed through my Dad’s village, he and other teenagers inspected the knocked out tanks.
He entered the turret of one but soon left when he noticed the smear of brain and hair lining its walls.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:15:11
From: dv
ID: 1852723
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 21:17:26
From: dv
ID: 1852725
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 21:20:41
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1852726
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 21:22:47
From: sibeen
ID: 1852728
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
sarahs mum said:
Media Release Bob Brown Foundation
25/02/2022
RUSSIA SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF ROLE AS CHAIR AND HOST OF THE 2022 WORLD HERITAGE COMMITTEE MEETING
Conservationists call on UNESCO to shift World Heritage meeting to Paris
The Bob Brown Foundation has called on UNESCO to strip Russia of its role as chair and host of the World Heritage Committee in response to the invasion of Ukraine. The Committee’s meeting is scheduled for the Russian city of Kazan in late June, but the BBF said it should be shifted to Paris under the Director-General of UNESCO.
“Russia has forfeited the right to chair and host this year’s meeting of the World Heritage Committee,” said Bob Brown Foundation spokesperson, Geoff Law. “President Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine violates UNESCO’s mission to foster peace through science, culture and education.”
The World Heritage List is UNESCO’s flagship. Each year, the Committee meets to deliberate on the protection and management of over 1100 World Heritage properties that include the Tasmanian Wilderness and Great Barrier Reef. There are seven World Heritage properties in the Ukraine.
“With its despicable invasion of a neighbouring country, Russia has lost its legitimacy as a member of UNESCO and signatory of the World Heritage Convention,” said Mr Law, who has attended seven meetings of the World Heritage Committee.
“It’s no longer appropriate for people who subscribe to the peaceable objectives of UNESCO to travel to a country whose leadership is carrying out an unprovoked war of aggression.”
Yes it should be moved but why Paris in particular?
Better wine and restaurants.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:24:27
From: dv
ID: 1852729
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Peak Warming Man said:
sarahs mum said:
Media Release Bob Brown Foundation
25/02/2022
RUSSIA SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF ROLE AS CHAIR AND HOST OF THE 2022 WORLD HERITAGE COMMITTEE MEETING
Conservationists call on UNESCO to shift World Heritage meeting to Paris
The Bob Brown Foundation has called on UNESCO to strip Russia of its role as chair and host of the World Heritage Committee in response to the invasion of Ukraine. The Committee’s meeting is scheduled for the Russian city of Kazan in late June, but the BBF said it should be shifted to Paris under the Director-General of UNESCO.
“Russia has forfeited the right to chair and host this year’s meeting of the World Heritage Committee,” said Bob Brown Foundation spokesperson, Geoff Law. “President Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine violates UNESCO’s mission to foster peace through science, culture and education.”
The World Heritage List is UNESCO’s flagship. Each year, the Committee meets to deliberate on the protection and management of over 1100 World Heritage properties that include the Tasmanian Wilderness and Great Barrier Reef. There are seven World Heritage properties in the Ukraine.
“With its despicable invasion of a neighbouring country, Russia has lost its legitimacy as a member of UNESCO and signatory of the World Heritage Convention,” said Mr Law, who has attended seven meetings of the World Heritage Committee.
“It’s no longer appropriate for people who subscribe to the peaceable objectives of UNESCO to travel to a country whose leadership is carrying out an unprovoked war of aggression.”
Yes it should be moved but why Paris in particular?
Better wine and restaurants.
That’s where UNESCO headquarters are
Date: 25/02/2022 21:27:09
From: sibeen
ID: 1852733
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Can’t quite stop himself from blaming NATO and the EU.
Yeah, and Tulsi Gabbard is doing it with the US & NATO. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, mama.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:27:34
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852734
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

uh
wtf is on that aeroplane
Date: 25/02/2022 21:28:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852736
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
we like a bit of personal individual responsibility
Defence Minister Peter Dutton says China could persuade Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the invasion
Well we’re on great terms with them so I guess we can just ask
‘Specially if it was Peter doing the asking.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:29:24
From: sibeen
ID: 1852738
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Yes it should be moved but why Paris in particular?
Better wine and restaurants.
That’s where UNESCO headquarters are
Yes, because of the better wine and restaurants – D’uh.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:30:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852739
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
SCIENCE said:
PermeateFree said:
Would have thought it more likely that they would get shot by their own side.
right but they know in advance who’s going in dressed up whereas Ukraine haven’t necessarily captured masses of Russian equipment
Thought swopping uniforms was against every principle of war.
All’s fair… when you are shooting each other.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:33:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852740
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Confused Trump believes US has invaded Ukraine in Fox call-in
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/confused-trump-believes-us-has-invaded-ukraine-in-fox-call-in/ar-AAUfV27?ocid=msedgntp
Sounds like normal Trump to me.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:36:11
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852741
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
European nations, including the UK and Ukraine, have sought for Russia to be excluded from SWIFT, but several European leaders would prefer to stay patient because a ban could make international trade more difficult and hurt their economies.
“The sanctions we’ve imposed exceed SWIFT,” Mr Biden said in response to a question Thursday.
“Let’s have a conversation in another month or so to see if they’re working.”
—
thankfully tanks are limited to travelling only 42 km per day
Date: 25/02/2022 21:37:24
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852743
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
European nations, including the UK and Ukraine, have sought for Russia to be excluded from SWIFT, but several European leaders would prefer to stay patient because a ban could make international trade more difficult and hurt their economies.
“The sanctions we’ve imposed exceed SWIFT,” Mr Biden said in response to a question Thursday.
“Let’s have a conversation in another month or so to see if they’re working.”
—
thankfully tanks are limited to travelling only 42 km per day
If the terrain is up to it.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:44:24
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852748
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:

Can’t quite stop himself from blaming NATO and the EU.
Yeah, and Tulsi Gabbard is doing it with the US & NATO. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, mama.
And Nigel Farage.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:45:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852749
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
dv said:

Can’t quite stop himself from blaming NATO and the EU.
Yeah, and Tulsi Gabbard is doing it with the US & NATO. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, mama.
And Nigel Farage.
Doh… 5 mins later I forget what I’d just read.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:45:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852750
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
dv said:

Can’t quite stop himself from blaming NATO and the EU.
Yeah, and Tulsi Gabbard is doing it with the US & NATO. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, mama.
And Nigel Farage.
It’s a strange strange world we live in, master Jack
Date: 25/02/2022 21:48:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852751
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
Yeah, and Tulsi Gabbard is doing it with the US & NATO. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, mama.
And Nigel Farage.
It’s a strange strange world we live in, master Jack
there.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:50:35
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1852752
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
Yeah, and Tulsi Gabbard is doing it with the US & NATO. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, mama.
And Nigel Farage.
Doh… 5 mins later I forget what I’d just read.
Vitamin D can help with that.
That’s why in the old days, the proper old days, the nurse would put you out in the sun for a while.
Sure sometimes they’d forget about you and you’d end up dehydrated with third degree sunburn but overall it was a net positive.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:52:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852753
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
And Nigel Farage.
Doh… 5 mins later I forget what I’d just read.
Vitamin D can help with that.
That’s why in the old days, the proper old days, the nurse would put you out in the sun for a while.
Sure sometimes they’d forget about you and you’d end up dehydrated with third degree sunburn but overall it was a net positive.
This actually wasn’t as serious as it is today. The climate has seriously moved on since those days.
Date: 25/02/2022 21:56:12
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852755
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I wonder if NATO should invade Switzerland and requisition Putin’s bank accounts.
Date: 25/02/2022 22:01:06
From: dv
ID: 1852759
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
Yeah, and Tulsi Gabbard is doing it with the US & NATO. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, mama.
And Nigel Farage.
Doh… 5 mins later I forget what I’d just read.
Fading
Date: 25/02/2022 22:01:37
From: dv
ID: 1852760
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speaking of things being moved to Paris:
CNN)UEFA announced that this year’s Champions League Final will no longer take place in St. Petersburg following an extraordinary meeting of the governing body’s Executive Committee on Friday.
The 2022 final was scheduled to be held at Krestovsky Stadium, which is sponsored by Russian state-owned company Gazprom, but will now be moved to the Stade de France in Paris to be played on the original date of May 28.
Date: 25/02/2022 22:06:01
From: sibeen
ID: 1852761
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Speaking of things being moved to Paris:
CNN)UEFA announced that this year’s Champions League Final will no longer take place in St. Petersburg following an extraordinary meeting of the governing body’s Executive Committee on Friday.
The 2022 final was scheduled to be held at Krestovsky Stadium, which is sponsored by Russian state-owned company Gazprom, but will now be moved to the Stade de France in Paris to be played on the original date of May 28.
Macron must have an election coming up. He’s played this brilliantly.
Date: 25/02/2022 22:15:24
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1852763
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Rachel Maddow.
What People Are Getting Wrong About How Sanctioning Russia Works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=—bfCIYMPu0
Date: 25/02/2022 22:17:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852764
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Speaking of things being moved to Paris:
CNN)UEFA announced that this year’s Champions League Final will no longer take place in St. Petersburg following an extraordinary meeting of the governing body’s Executive Committee on Friday.
The 2022 final was scheduled to be held at Krestovsky Stadium, which is sponsored by Russian state-owned company Gazprom, but will now be moved to the Stade de France in Paris to be played on the original date of May 28.
I suppose that if the FIFA executive hands back the bribes they got from the Russians, they might make up at least some of it with the bribes from the French.
Date: 25/02/2022 22:18:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852765
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Rachel Maddow.
What People Are Getting Wrong About How Sanctioning Russia Works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=—bfCIYMPu0
Not yet viewed, buy i assume that their error lies in expecting sanctions to actually achieve something.
Date: 25/02/2022 22:28:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852768
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
I wonder if NATO should invade Switzerland and requisition Putin’s bank accounts.
Switzerland exists and survives precisely because it holds the dirt on just about everyone at the top levels of the game.
There’s a gentlemens’ agreement that ‘i won’t do anything that might expose the can of worms you have hidden under the pavements of Zurich, if you don’t do anything similar to my little stash there’.
Date: 25/02/2022 22:55:48
From: dv
ID: 1852780
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Rachel Maddow.
What People Are Getting Wrong About How Sanctioning Russia Works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=—bfCIYMPu0
Not yet viewed, buy i assume that their error lies in expecting sanctions to actually achieve something.
I mean there are historical examples of sanctions achieving things…
Date: 25/02/2022 23:06:02
From: Kingy
ID: 1852782
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reports of excess radioactivity in Ukraine.
It appears that russian artillery has hit some of the storage areas around Chernobyl.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-agency-reports-higher-chernobyl-radiation-levels-due-heavy-2022-02-25/
Date: 25/02/2022 23:47:22
From: dv
ID: 1852785
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/02/2022 23:55:21
From: dv
ID: 1852787
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/02/2022 00:03:33
From: dv
ID: 1852788
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

One of the chapters of that book is:
Has
NATO Expansion Made Anyone Safer?
I assume the answer will be “fuck yeah, it’s what kept the Baltic states off the menu”
Date: 26/02/2022 00:04:34
From: sibeen
ID: 1852789
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Pilger is a fruitcake, always has been.
Date: 26/02/2022 00:18:01
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1852800
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Pilger is a moron and a creep.
Date: 26/02/2022 00:18:03
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1852801
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Rachel Maddow.
What People Are Getting Wrong About How Sanctioning Russia Works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=—bfCIYMPu0
Not yet viewed, buy i assume that their error lies in expecting sanctions to actually achieve something.
I mean there are historical examples of sanctions achieving things…
indeed.. if it weren’t for sanctions Sasol would never have learned to make petrol from coal
Date: 26/02/2022 01:30:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
dv said:

One of the chapters of that book is:
Has NATO Expansion Made Anyone Safer?
I assume the answer will be “fuck yeah, it’s what kept the Baltic states off the menu”
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
Date: 26/02/2022 01:52:18
From: transition
ID: 1852816
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:

Pilger is a moron and a creep.
that’s not very nice
Date: 26/02/2022 01:54:34
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852818
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:

Pilger is a moron and a creep.
that’s not very nice
presumably neither is shooting andor bombing people
perhaps we should support people in efforts to resolve crises via dialogue
Date: 26/02/2022 02:01:06
From: transition
ID: 1852819
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
Pilger is a moron and a creep.
that’s not very nice
presumably neither is shooting andor bombing people
perhaps we should support people in efforts to resolve crises via dialogue
was tongue-in-cheek poke at master car, expressing his feelings about Mr Pilger, was all
Date: 26/02/2022 02:21:46
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852821
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/02/2022 02:27:29
From: party_pants
ID: 1852822
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
Pilger is a moron and a creep.
that’s not very nice
presumably neither is shooting andor bombing people
perhaps we should support people in efforts to resolve crises via dialogue
It was Russia that pledged the security of Ukraine’s borders in return for them giving up the nuclear weapons they inherited from the old Soviet Onion,
Date: 26/02/2022 02:41:13
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1852824
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:

Pilger is a moron and a creep.
>>Pilger is a strong critic of American, Australian, and British foreign policy, which he considers to be driven by an imperialist and colonialist agenda. Pilger has also criticised his native country’s treatment of Indigenous Australians. He first drew international attention for his reports on the Cambodian genocide.
His career as a documentary film maker began with The Quiet Mutiny (1970), made during one of his visits to Vietnam, and has continued with over 50 documentaries since. Other works in this form include Year Zero (1979), about the aftermath of the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia, and Death of a Nation: The Timor Conspiracy (1993). His many documentary films on indigenous Australians include The Secret Country (1985) and Utopia (2013). In the British print media, Pilger worked at the Daily Mirror from 1963 to 1986, and wrote a regular column for the New Statesman magazine from 1991 to 2014.
Pilger won Britain’s Journalist of the Year Award in 1967 and 1979. His documentaries have gained awards in Britain and worldwide, including multiple BAFTA honours. The practices of the mainstream media are a regular subject in Pilger’s writing.
Pilger wrote in 2000 that the 1998 legislation that removed the common-law rights of Indigenous peoples:
is just one of the disgraces that has given Australia the distinction of being the only developed country whose government has been condemned as racist by the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination.
Wiki
Date: 26/02/2022 02:54:27
From: furious
ID: 1852825
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

Had a big night… oh, I see…
Date: 26/02/2022 04:13:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852833
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The MoD released footage of a vehicle-mounted crematorium with room to “evaporate” one human body at a time, which has been seen trailing Russian forces and is expected to follow any troops into Ukraine. Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, suggested the use of such a system may be a way for the Kremlin to cover up any future combat losses, fearing a repeat of the criticism at home when Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-deploys-mobile-crematorium-follow-troops-battle/
Date: 26/02/2022 06:09:20
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852839
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
dv said:

One of the chapters of that book is:
Has NATO Expansion Made Anyone Safer?
I assume the answer will be “fuck yeah, it’s what kept the Baltic states off the menu”
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
I don’t understand.
Date: 26/02/2022 07:11:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 1852841
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Reports of excess radioactivity in Ukraine.
It appears that russian artillery has hit some of the storage areas around Chernobyl.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-agency-reports-higher-chernobyl-radiation-levels-due-heavy-2022-02-25/
Didn’t they say that was because vehicles stirred up radioactive dust?
Date: 26/02/2022 08:01:39
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852846
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
The MoD released footage of a vehicle-mounted crematorium with room to “evaporate” one human body at a time, which has been seen trailing Russian forces and is expected to follow any troops into Ukraine. Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, suggested the use of such a system may be a way for the Kremlin to cover up any future combat losses, fearing a repeat of the criticism at home when Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-deploys-mobile-crematorium-follow-troops-battle/
You get a good number of those, and there’s no more embarrassing remains like after that Katyn forest business way back when.
Date: 26/02/2022 08:36:15
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852852
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/02/2022 08:46:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852855
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
dv said:

One of the chapters of that book is:
Has NATO Expansion Made Anyone Safer?
I assume the answer will be “fuck yeah, it’s what kept the Baltic states off the menu”
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
I very much doubt it.
Why compare Nazi Ideology with a virus?
Russia likes to meddle with US politics, so yes the threat is real.
Date: 26/02/2022 11:07:36
From: fsm
ID: 1852927
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
Date: 26/02/2022 11:11:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1852928
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
Furious Putin = Madman
How can a whole country trust a psychopath as a leader?.
Date: 26/02/2022 11:22:06
From: Tamb
ID: 1852932
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
They originally used that description for the Tsar Bomba.
Date: 26/02/2022 11:22:50
From: Tamb
ID: 1852933
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
fsm said:
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
Furious Putin = Madman
How can a whole country trust a psychopath as a leader?.
They have a long history of it.
Date: 26/02/2022 11:23:40
From: dv
ID: 1852934
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
So the US has joined with UK and EU is placing sanctions on Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov personally, as well as ending sales of computer chips to Russia.
Date: 26/02/2022 11:40:34
From: dv
ID: 1852943
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian tennis player Andrey Rublev writes ‘No War Please’ on live TV
Russian tennis player Andrey Rublev has made another plea for peace, writing “No War Please” on a TV camera lens moments after advancing to the final at the Dubai Championships.
https://7news.com.au/sport/tennis/no-war-please-writes-rublev-after-win-c-5844645
Date: 26/02/2022 12:07:21
From: dv
ID: 1852950
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/02/2022 12:10:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852954
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
It’s a damn big one at about 15,000 kg, and it’s been around since at least 2007.
But, the principle is nothing new. It’s a fuel/air thermobaric bomb, which creates a huge area of ‘overpressure’ which will destroy structures and people either by incineration in the flash of ignition of the fuel cloud ejected by the bomb, or by the pressure wave generated by that flash.
It can consume all of the air in the blast area, which can cause ‘reverse’ blast waves, and asphyxiate people.
The blast pressure is extremely effective, but more widespread and at very much lower temperatures than blasts from conventional explosives. The effects are like a localised nuclear explosion, but of very short duration with none of the lingering radiation.
The same principle was employed in the American CBU-55 and CBU-72 bombs. One CBU-55 was used, with great effect, by the South Vietnamese in the last days of that country’s struggle, and the Americans may have used some CBU-72s in the Gulf wars. Almost all of the American bombs have now been deactivated and destroyed.
Like any parachute-delivered weapon, the Russian bomb can have accuracy problems, so they’d have to be very careful about where and when they employ it.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:11:14
From: Tamb
ID: 1852956
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

That’s not a longbow. It’s a wrong bow.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:19:08
From: party_pants
ID: 1852962
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
So the US has joined with UK and EU is placing sanctions on Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov personally, as well as ending sales of computer chips to Russia.
Sanctions on Putin and a few individuals is not going to do much. They need to collapse the Russian economy completely. Cut them off from SWIFT. Impose a complete trade ban. Close the borders. Blockade their shipping.
If the Russian people don’t like it they need to rise up and overthrow Putin.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:21:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852965
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
fsm said:
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
It’s a damn big one at about 15,000 kg, and it’s been around since at least 2007.
But, the principle is nothing new. It’s a fuel/air thermobaric bomb, which creates a huge area of ‘overpressure’ which will destroy structures and people either by incineration in the flash of ignition of the fuel cloud ejected by the bomb, or by the pressure wave generated by that flash.
It can consume all of the air in the blast area, which can cause ‘reverse’ blast waves, and asphyxiate people.
The blast pressure is extremely effective, but more widespread and at very much lower temperatures than blasts from conventional explosives. The effects are like a localised nuclear explosion, but of very short duration with none of the lingering radiation.
The same principle was employed in the American CBU-55 and CBU-72 bombs. One CBU-55 was used, with great effect, by the South Vietnamese in the last days of that country’s struggle, and the Americans may have used some CBU-72s in the Gulf wars. Almost all of the American bombs have now been deactivated and destroyed.
Like any parachute-delivered weapon, the Russian bomb can have accuracy problems, so they’d have to be very careful about where and when they employ it.
Chernobyl
Date: 26/02/2022 12:25:40
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852966
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
fsm said:
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
Furious Putin = Madman
How can a whole country trust a psychopath as a leader?.
They don’t trust him , he has enough dosh to buy people , which helped him to grow into a monster plus his ties to the KGB and understanding on intelligence etc and fear that of the way he imposed punishments but at some point fear because pase’ and getting rid of ill focussed rule becomes more of a focus. History shows this is true.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:27:04
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852968
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
So the US has joined with UK and EU is placing sanctions on Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov personally, as well as ending sales of computer chips to Russia.
Sanctions on Putin and a few individuals is not going to do much. They need to collapse the Russian economy completely. Cut them off from SWIFT. Impose a complete trade ban. Close the borders. Blockade their shipping.
If the Russian people don’t like it they need to rise up and overthrow Putin.
I wonder if 500,000 troops on the border of Poland, Romania and the Baltic states would be too provocative? NATO can say they have intel that Putin plans to invade these countries and he’d probably be prompted to garrison troops on the Russian side meaning fewer are able to occupy Ukraine.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:27:17
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852969
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
fsm said:
Furious Putin prepares to use ‘father of all bombs’ as brave Ukrainians hold up advance: West warns Russia could use terror weapon that vaporizes bodies alongside a massive Amphibious assault as invaders run into fierce resistance in Kyiv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10552743/Furious-Putin-prepares-use-father-bombs-brave-Ukrainians-hold-advance.html
MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russia has tested the world’s most powerful vacuum bomb, which unleashes a destructive shockwave with the power of a nuclear blast, the military said on Tuesday, dubbing it the “father of all bombs”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1155952320070911
Furious Putin = Madman
How can a whole country trust a psychopath as a leader?.
They don’t trust him , he has enough dosh to buy people , which helped him to grow into a monster plus his ties to the KGB and understanding on intelligence etc and fear that of the way he imposed punishments but at some point fear because pase’ and getting rid of ill focussed rule becomes more of a focus. History shows this is true.
because = becomes passe’
Date: 26/02/2022 12:30:59
From: party_pants
ID: 1852972
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
So the US has joined with UK and EU is placing sanctions on Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov personally, as well as ending sales of computer chips to Russia.
Sanctions on Putin and a few individuals is not going to do much. They need to collapse the Russian economy completely. Cut them off from SWIFT. Impose a complete trade ban. Close the borders. Blockade their shipping.
If the Russian people don’t like it they need to rise up and overthrow Putin.
I wonder if 500,000 troops on the border of Poland, Romania and the Baltic states would be too provocative? NATO can say they have intel that Putin plans to invade these countries and he’d probably be prompted to garrison troops on the Russian side meaning fewer are able to occupy Ukraine.
Protests and revolution going on within Russia might divert their attention somewhat.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:33:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852973
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
They don’t trust him , he has enough dosh to buy people , which helped him to grow into a monster plus his ties to the KGB and understanding on intelligence etc and fear that of the way he imposed punishments but at some point fear because pase’ and getting rid of ill focussed rule becomes more of a focus. History shows this is true.
Don’t forget that the last great shift in Russian government/society in the 1990s did not arise from ‘among the people’, but was imposed by the people at the top. And there was was resistance to it from some sectors, including in the military. Remember the tanks shelling the Russian parliament building?
Indeed, there’s still a lot of people in Russia who actually yearn for the old Soviet days.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:33:29
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852974
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
Sanctions on Putin and a few individuals is not going to do much. They need to collapse the Russian economy completely. Cut them off from SWIFT. Impose a complete trade ban. Close the borders. Blockade their shipping.
If the Russian people don’t like it they need to rise up and overthrow Putin.
I wonder if 500,000 troops on the border of Poland, Romania and the Baltic states would be too provocative? NATO can say they have intel that Putin plans to invade these countries and he’d probably be prompted to garrison troops on the Russian side meaning fewer are able to occupy Ukraine.
Protests and revolution going on within Russia might divert their attention somewhat.
+1 less likely to escalate to a world war if this happens internally but the armed force military leaders next to make to call to work with the civilians on this
Date: 26/02/2022 12:40:23
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852978
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
monkey skipper said:
They don’t trust him , he has enough dosh to buy people , which helped him to grow into a monster plus his ties to the KGB and understanding on intelligence etc and fear that of the way he imposed punishments but at some point fear because pase’ and getting rid of ill focussed rule becomes more of a focus. History shows this is true.
Don’t forget that the last great shift in Russian government/society in the 1990s did not arise from ‘among the people’, but was imposed by the people at the top. And there was was resistance to it from some sectors, including in the military. Remember the tanks shelling the Russian parliament building?
Indeed, there’s still a lot of people in Russia who actually yearn for the old Soviet days.
They yearn for basic living standings to be better (communism in some ways provided for that in the shorter term but there were strings attached) for all and some people it region liked that aspect of communism but it didn’t work in the longer term and isn’t working in China when you consider the human rights issues that arise I know that Estonia despised communization because it mean removing all of the wealth , identity , language and key people who were for the better interests of Estonia. Private enterprise was totally crushed because unless you had a farm that was run for the govt , you had no way to sell your produce but being part of the govt meant the amounts you got paid is all the same regardless of what you had. Essentially giving away you livelihood for very little return because it was one size fits all or nothing.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:43:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852979
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:48:48
From: party_pants
ID: 1852982
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:49:20
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852983
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian soldier blew himself up on bridge to block advancement of Russian tanks
Megan Sheets 6 hrs ago
A Ukrainian soldier reportedly blew himself up on a bridge to prevent a line of Russian tanks from crossing.
The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine announced the act of bravery by Vitaly Skakun, who was part of a marine infantry battalion aiming to block the Henichesk bridge in the southern Kherson region.
As the tanks approached, Mr Skakun jumped in to carry out a mission to blow up the bridge.
“The bridge was mined, but he didn’t manage to get away from there,” the military said in a statement.
“According to his brothers in arms, Vitaly got in touch and said he was going to blow up the bridge. Immediately after an explosion rang out.”
“His heroic act significantly slowed down the push of the enemy, allowing the unit to relocate and organize defense.”
Officials said they were working on awarding Mr Skakun with posthumous honors.
Follow live updates on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
The statement concluded: “Russian invaders, know, under your feet the earth will burn! We will fight as long as we live! And as long as we are alive we will fight!”
This map shows the progression of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of midday Friday (Press Association Images)© Provided by The Independent This map shows the progression of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of midday Friday (Press Association Images)
Mr Skakun’s bravery came hours before Russian tanks descended on Kyiv as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged residents of the capital city to arm themselves with Molotov cocktails and fight back against the invasion.
Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin called on the Ukrainian military to seize power in their country and overthrow Mr Zelensky.
US defence officials have said the advancement toward the heart of Kyiv has moved slower than Russia anticipated.
From news to politics, travel to sport, culture to climate – The Independent has a host of free newsletters to suit your interests. To find the stories you want to read, and more, in your inbox, click here.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:50:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852984
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
One of the chapters of that book is:
Has NATO Expansion Made Anyone Safer?
I assume the answer will be “fuck yeah, it’s what kept the Baltic states off the menu”
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
I don’t understand.
“Putin hasn’t paid a price for even interfering in the American election and possibly tipping it, so he’s got his reservations about how tough Biden is.
“Now we’ll see if Biden is tough enough with Putin to gain his respect and fear.
“Remember with Putin, all politics is just a dominance game, so the question is whether Biden can dominate Putin or not and that remains to be seen.”
Date: 26/02/2022 12:51:15
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852985
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
Well , if they loved it so much they wouldn’t want to leave there an immigrate elsewhere as often as they do.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:52:13
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1852986
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
And the Chinese people said nothing, eyes firmly fixed on picture of ‘their’ Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL in the catalogue.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:52:56
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852987
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
I don’t understand.
“Putin hasn’t paid a price for even interfering in the American election and possibly tipping it, so he’s got his reservations about how tough Biden is.
“Now we’ll see if Biden is tough enough with Putin to gain his respect and fear.
“Remember with Putin, all politics is just a dominance game, so the question is whether Biden can dominate Putin or not and that remains to be seen.”
The UK and the EU are needed here and toot sweet , Ukraine is asking for help and so are the surrounding areas because they know what is coming as they have seen it before.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:52:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852988
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
ah capitalism is wonderful
Date: 26/02/2022 12:53:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852989
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
But One Man Stopped Them
Date: 26/02/2022 12:54:12
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852990
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
I don’t understand.
“Putin hasn’t paid a price for even interfering in the American election and possibly tipping it, so he’s got his reservations about how tough Biden is.
“Now we’ll see if Biden is tough enough with Putin to gain his respect and fear.
“Remember with Putin, all politics is just a dominance game, so the question is whether Biden can dominate Putin or not and that remains to be seen.”
Thanks.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:54:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1852991
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Ukrainian soldier blew himself up on bridge to block advancement of Russian tanks
Megan Sheets 6 hrs ago
A Ukrainian soldier reportedly blew himself up on a bridge to prevent a line of Russian tanks from crossing.
The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine announced the act of bravery by Vitaly Skakun, who was part of a marine infantry battalion aiming to block the Henichesk bridge in the southern Kherson region.
As the tanks approached, Mr Skakun jumped in to carry out a mission to blow up the bridge.
“The bridge was mined, but he didn’t manage to get away from there,” the military said in a statement.
“According to his brothers in arms, Vitaly got in touch and said he was going to blow up the bridge. Immediately after an explosion rang out.”
“His heroic act significantly slowed down the push of the enemy, allowing the unit to relocate and organize defense.”
Officials said they were working on awarding Mr Skakun with posthumous honors.
Follow live updates on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
The statement concluded: “Russian invaders, know, under your feet the earth will burn! We will fight as long as we live! And as long as we are alive we will fight!”
This map shows the progression of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of midday Friday (Press Association Images)© Provided by The Independent This map shows the progression of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of midday Friday (Press Association Images)
Mr Skakun’s bravery came hours before Russian tanks descended on Kyiv as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged residents of the capital city to arm themselves with Molotov cocktails and fight back against the invasion.
Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin called on the Ukrainian military to seize power in their country and overthrow Mr Zelensky.
US defence officials have said the advancement toward the heart of Kyiv has moved slower than Russia anticipated.
From news to politics, travel to sport, culture to climate – The Independent has a host of free newsletters to suit your interests. To find the stories you want to read, and more, in your inbox, click here.
suicide bombers, one ideologie’s hero is another one’s ter…
Date: 26/02/2022 12:55:02
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1852993
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
monkey skipper said:
Ukrainian soldier blew himself up on bridge to block advancement of Russian tanks
Megan Sheets 6 hrs ago
A Ukrainian soldier reportedly blew himself up on a bridge to prevent a line of Russian tanks from crossing.
The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine announced the act of bravery by Vitaly Skakun, who was part of a marine infantry battalion aiming to block the Henichesk bridge in the southern Kherson region.
As the tanks approached, Mr Skakun jumped in to carry out a mission to blow up the bridge.
“The bridge was mined, but he didn’t manage to get away from there,” the military said in a statement.
“According to his brothers in arms, Vitaly got in touch and said he was going to blow up the bridge. Immediately after an explosion rang out.”
“His heroic act significantly slowed down the push of the enemy, allowing the unit to relocate and organize defense.”
Officials said they were working on awarding Mr Skakun with posthumous honors.
Follow live updates on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
The statement concluded: “Russian invaders, know, under your feet the earth will burn! We will fight as long as we live! And as long as we are alive we will fight!”
This map shows the progression of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of midday Friday (Press Association Images)© Provided by The Independent This map shows the progression of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of midday Friday (Press Association Images)
Mr Skakun’s bravery came hours before Russian tanks descended on Kyiv as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged residents of the capital city to arm themselves with Molotov cocktails and fight back against the invasion.
Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin called on the Ukrainian military to seize power in their country and overthrow Mr Zelensky.
US defence officials have said the advancement toward the heart of Kyiv has moved slower than Russia anticipated.
From news to politics, travel to sport, culture to climate – The Independent has a host of free newsletters to suit your interests. To find the stories you want to read, and more, in your inbox, click here.
suicide bombers, one ideologie’s hero is another one’s ter…
desperation
Date: 26/02/2022 12:55:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1852994
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
And the Chinese people said nothing, eyes firmly fixed on picture of ‘their’ Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL in the catalogue.
Nah.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:57:21
From: party_pants
ID: 1852998
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
In the late 80s, early 90s, the Chinese government basically told the Chinese people that they could be free, or they could be rich, but not both.
They chose ‘rich’.
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
And the Chinese people said nothing, eyes firmly fixed on picture of ‘their’ Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL in the catalogue.
Not in this universe.
Date: 26/02/2022 12:59:20
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853000
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
And the Chinese people said nothing, eyes firmly fixed on picture of ‘their’ Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL in the catalogue.
Nah.
isn’t that the stereotype of overseas CHINApersons though, which we guess suggests something
Date: 26/02/2022 13:02:36
From: party_pants
ID: 1853001
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
And the Chinese people said nothing, eyes firmly fixed on picture of ‘their’ Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL in the catalogue.
Nah.
isn’t that the stereotype of overseas CHINApersons though, which we guess suggests something
China is another failed attempt at a market economy. What they have now is a grim dystopia where only those with party connections get to play. If you ain’t got the right connections you will be poor. The party is more important than the country.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:09:42
From: dv
ID: 1853006
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
The Chinese people did not get the choice. The Communist Party made that decision and rolled the tanks into Tiananmen Square.
And the Chinese people said nothing, eyes firmly fixed on picture of ‘their’ Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL in the catalogue.
Nah.
The median yearly income in China is 17600 Yuan, approximately 2700 US dollars.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:11:20
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853009
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
And the Chinese people said nothing, eyes firmly fixed on picture of ‘their’ Mercedes-Benz 420 SEL in the catalogue.
Nah.
The median yearly income in China is 17600 Yuan, approximately 2700 US dollars.
Still, some Chiinese have seven Ferraris in the carport.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:13:23
From: dv
ID: 1853011
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Nah.
The median yearly income in China is 17600 Yuan, approximately 2700 US dollars.
Still, some Chiinese have seven Ferraris in the carport.
Yes, it’s a place of extreme wealth disparity.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:17:30
From: party_pants
ID: 1853013
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Nah.
The median yearly income in China is 17600 Yuan, approximately 2700 US dollars.
Still, some Chiinese have seven Ferraris in the carport.
Yes. There is a small elite of super wealthy individuals. Mostly those who are in a position to act corruptly, or the children of such persons.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:23:47
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853021
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
roughbarked said:
dv said:
The median yearly income in China is 17600 Yuan, approximately 2700 US dollars.
Still, some Chiinese have seven Ferraris in the carport.
Yes. There is a small elite of super wealthy individuals. Mostly those who are in a position to act corruptly, or the children of such persons.
There’s the carrot. It dangles in front of all, equally.
You, too, might be rich, if you can only cultivate the right connections.
And the right connections don’t, and never did, have any connection to ideas of ‘freedom’ and ‘human rights’.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:25:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853022
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
roughbarked said:
Still, some Chiinese have seven Ferraris in the carport.
Yes. There is a small elite of super wealthy individuals. Mostly those who are in a position to act corruptly, or the children of such persons.
There’s the carrot. It dangles in front of all, equally.
You, too, might be rich, if you can only cultivate the right connections.
And the right connections don’t, and never did, have any connection to ideas of ‘freedom’ and ‘human rights’.
You too can turn into the world’s richest cuntface.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:35:17
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853030
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
Date: 26/02/2022 13:38:44
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853031
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
Sell it all to Kim. He’s closer to the USA and may be able to throw it that far.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:38:53
From: dv
ID: 1853032
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
Well yeah but they don’t need Chernobyl to do that. Russia has a huge amount of spent nuclear fuel.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:38:56
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853033
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
roughbarked said:
Still, some Chiinese have seven Ferraris in the carport.
Yes. There is a small elite of super wealthy individuals. Mostly those who are in a position to act corruptly, or the children of such persons.
There’s the carrot. It dangles in front of all, equally.
You, too, might be rich, if you can only cultivate the right connections.
And the right connections don’t, and never did, have any connection to ideas of ‘freedom’ and ‘human rights’.
Meanwhile, I turned down the opportunity to become stupidly wealthy and end up part owner of a company 51% owned by potentially dodgy Chinese investors.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:40:19
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853034
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
Well yeah but they don’t need Chernobyl to do that. Russia has a huge amount of spent nuclear fuel.
Littered across some areas as well
Date: 26/02/2022 13:40:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853035
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
Yes. There is a small elite of super wealthy individuals. Mostly those who are in a position to act corruptly, or the children of such persons.
There’s the carrot. It dangles in front of all, equally.
You, too, might be rich, if you can only cultivate the right connections.
And the right connections don’t, and never did, have any connection to ideas of ‘freedom’ and ‘human rights’.
Meanwhile, I turned down the opportunity to become stupidly wealthy and end up part owner of a company 51% owned by potentially dodgy Chinese investors.
I’m glad because that would be just stupid.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:41:18
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853036
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
Chernobyl could be turned into one giant dirty bomb.
But dirty bombs are a threat, and not a practical military strategy. Russia wants to own Ukraine’s resources, not destroy it.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:43:33
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853037
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia vetoes UN Security Council resolution
Sonia Lal 1 hour ago
White House asks Congress for $6.4 billion for Ukraine crisis
In an unsurprising move Russia has vetoed a UN Security Council resolution that demands Moscow cease its attack on Ukraine and withdraw all troops.
The vote was 11 to one, with China, India, and the UAE abstaining.
It highlights that wide-ranging, but not complete opposition to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine from global actors.
READ MORE: Ukraine’s capital under threat
Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Nations Sergiy Kyslytsya says he will not dignify any of Russia’s false claims with a response.
The US along with other countries predicted the resolution was unlikely to pass, but argued it would illustrate Russia’s growing isolationism in the international sphere.
The failure of the resolution means its supporters can vote on a similar measure in the UN General Assembly.
In the General Assembly none of the 193-member states are able to veto a resolution being put forward.
At this stage there no time has been scheduled for a potential General Assembly vote.
Video: Russian invasion nears Ukraine’s capital (Sky News Australia)
Pause
Current Time 0:05
/
Duration 7:35
Unmute
0
LQ
CaptionFull screen
Russian invasion nears Ukraine’s capital
Click to expand
In a heated exchange during today’s UN Security Council meeting, Ukraine’s representative Sergiy Kyslytsya has rebuked claims from Russia’s representative that images and footage emerging from the conflict in Ukraine are false.
READ MORE: US President personally sanctions Putin
Russia’s UN Ambassador Russia Vasily Nebenzya said a lot of the images and footage emerging from the conflict in Ukraine are false.
“There are videos alleging Russian strikes targeting residential areas, which were filmed in other parts of the world and have nothing to do with Ukraine,” Russian ambassador Vasily Nebenzya said.
“I will not dignify the Russian diabolical script that is rather a letter of application for a rather up-scaled seat in hell,” Mr Kyslytsya replied.
US representative Linda Thomas-Greenfield joined Mr Kyslytsya in condemning Russia’s accusations.
“I’m not going to respond to the atrocious lies and propaganda, and misinformation that you’ve heard from our Russian colleague,” Ms Thomas-Greenfield said.
Then Kyslytsya called on the entire UN Security Council to “dedicate a moment of complete silence to pray or to meditate, if you do not believe in God, for peace.”
“To pray for the souls of those who have already been killed. For souls of those who may be killed.
“And I invite the Russian ambassador to pray for salvation.”
Date: 26/02/2022 13:44:20
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853039
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
An extended read from December last year:
…
A Forced Brotherhood
WHY RUSSIA HAS NEVER ACCEPTED UKRAINIAN INDEPENDENCE
It might have, had it chosen democracy
DEC 18TH 2021
Editor’s note: Since this article was published, Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, ordered a “special military operation”, declaring war.
Around eight in the evening of Sunday December 8th 1991, Mikhail Gorbachev, the president of the Soviet Union, picked up a phone call on a top-security line. The caller was Stanislav Shushkevich, a modest physics professor whom Mr Gorbachev’s reforms had placed at the helm of the Soviet Republic of Belarus a few months before. Mr Shushkevich was phoning from a hunting lodge in the magnificent Belovezh forest to tell the great reformer that he was out of a job: the Soviet Union was over.
In retrospect, its last gasp had come in August, when the kgb, hardline Communists and the army had placed Mr Gorbachev under house arrest and mounted a coup. After three days of peaceful resistance led by Boris Yeltsin, president of the Russian Soviet Republic, they backed down. That ruled out any return to a Soviet past. But Mr Gorbachev still clung to hopes for some sort of post-Soviet liberal successor as a way to hold at least some of the republics together. Mr Shushkevich’s call killed any such aspiration.
One of its triggers was Russia’s economic collapse. As Yegor Gaidar, Yeltsin’s top economic reformer, was later to write, it was an autumn of “grim food lines…pristinely empty stores…women rushing around in search of some food, any food…an average salary of seven dollars a month”. To successfully enact the sweeping reforms Mr Gaidar was designing, Yeltsin needed a Russia which controlled its own currency. That meant leaving the ussr.
Mr Shuskevich, too, was motivated by the dreadful economy. He had invited Yeltsin to the retreat in the forest in the hope that by wining and dining him he would ensure that Russian gas and electricity would keep flowing to Belarus. It would have been a hard winter without them. The venue he chose was a lodge called Viskuli, where Leonid Brezhnev and Nikita Khrushchev had entertained themselves shooting bison and other game (hence its hard-wired connection to Moscow).
Yeltsin suggested that Leonid Kravchuk, the president of the Ukrainian republic, join them. The previous Sunday, Ukraine had voted overwhelmingly to ratify the declaration of independence from the Soviet Union which had been passed in its parliament, the Rada, immediately after the August coup.
Yeltsin did not just want what Mr Kravchuk had achieved in Ukraine for economic reasons. Independence would, he felt, be crucial to consolidating his power and pursuing liberal democracy. And Ukraine—never, until the 19th century, a well-defined territory, and home to various ethnic enclaves and deep cultural divides—becoming an independent unitary state within its Soviet borders set a precedent for Russia to define itself the same way, and refuse independence to restive territories such as Chechnya. That was why the Russian republic was one of the first three polities in the world to recognise it as an independent state.
But if a world in which Ukraine, Russia and indeed Belarus were completely independent from the Soviet Union was attractive, one in which they were not tied to each other in some other way was very troubling to a Russian like Yeltsin. It was not just that Ukraine was the second-most-populous and economically powerful of the remaining republics, its industries tightly integrated with Russia’s. Nor was it the question of what was to happen to the nuclear forces stationed there but still notionally under the command of Soviet authorities in Moscow. It went deeper.
In “Rebuilding Russia”, an essay published in the ussr’s most widely circulated newspaper the year before, Alexander Solzhenitsyn had asked “What exactly is Russia? Today, now? And—more importantly—tomorrow?…Where do Russians themselves see the boundaries of their land?” The need to let the Baltic states go was clear—and when they left the Soviet Union in 1990, Solzhenitsyn, Yeltsin and most of Russia rallied against revanchist attempts to keep them in. Much the same was true of Central Asia and the Caucasus; they were colonies. Belarus and Ukraine were part of the metropolitan core. The bonds which tied “Little Russians” (ie Ukrainians), “Great Russians” and Belarusians together, Solzhenitsyn argued, must be defended by all means short of war.
For centuries Ukraine had anchored Russia’s identity. As the centre of the storied medieval confederation known as Kyivan Rus, which stretched from the White Sea in the north to the Black Sea in the south, Kyiv was seen as the cradle of Russian and Belarusian culture and the font of their Orthodox faith. Being united with Ukraine was fundamental to Russia’s feeling of itself as European. In “Lost Kingdom” (2017) Serhii Plokhy, a Ukrainian historian, describes how “the Kyivan myth of origins…became the cornerstone of Muscovy’s ideology as the polity evolved from a Mongol dependency to a sovereign state and then an empire.” Russian empire required Ukraine; and Russia had no history other than one of empire. The idea of Kyiv as just the capital of a neighbouring country was unimaginable to Russians.
But not to Ukrainians. At the first dinner in Viskuli, with Yeltsin and Mr Kravchuk sitting opposite each other, a number of toasts were raised to friendship. The friendship Mr Kravchuk wanted, though, was of the cordial sort that comes with a decent alimony cheque, not the sort that goes with a fresh plighting of troths.
Mr Kravchuk was born in 1934 in the western Ukrainian province of Volhynia—then part of Poland, but ceded to the ussr as part of the infamous pact it made with Germany in 1939. A childhood surrounded by ethnic cleansing, repression and war had taught him, as he put it, “to walk between the raindrops”. It was a skill that made him an ideal party apparatchik and then saw him turn himself into a champion of Ukrainian independence—not for any high-minded ideological reasons, but because he wanted the chance to be in charge of his own country.
The referendum had given it to him, with independence endorsed by majorities in every part of the country, both those in the formerly Austro-Hungarian west, with its Baroque churches and coffee shops, and in the Sovietised and industrialised east, where most of Ukraine’s 11m ethnic Russians lived. There were practical things he needed from Russia, and Russian interests he recognised; he wanted a good relationship with Yeltsin and so had come to the forest meeting. But he was not interested in giving Russia an exit from the union that in any way compromised Ukrainian independence.
The agreement reached, in draft form, at 4am on Sunday morning achieved those aims with a rather neat piece of casuistry. For Russia simply to have followed Ukraine into independence would have left moot the question of the Soviet Union’s residual powers. So instead they abolished the union itself.
The Soviet Union had been formed, in 1922, through a joint declaration by four Soviet republics—the Transcaucasian republic and the three represented at Viskuli. With the Transcaucasian republic long since dismembered, the presidents dissolved by fiat what their forebears had bound together. In its place they put a Commonwealth of Independent States (cis)—Mr Kravchuk would not allow any use of the word “union”—with few clearly defined powers which any post-Soviet state would be welcome to join. There was to be no special relationship between the Slavic three.
That afternoon the three men signed the agreement, thereby proclaiming that “The ussr as a subject of international law and geopolitical reality has ceased to exist.” It then fell to the most junior of the three—who was also the least enthusiastic about what they had done—to inform Moscow of what had happened.
Mr Gorbachev was furious. The importance of Ukraine was not an abstract matter to him. Like Solzhenitsyn, he was the child of a Ukrainian mother and a Russian father. He grew up singing Ukrainian songs and reading Gogol, who reimagined his native country’s folk magic as rich poetry after moving to St Petersburg. The Soviet Union had meant that Mr Gorbachev and others like him, whatever their parentage, could partake in both identities.
More immediately, though the failed coup had made some such break-up more or less inevitable, disassembling a multi-ethnic empire of 250m people was still a subject of huge trepidation. As Solzhenitsyn had written in “Rebuilding Russia”, “The clock of communism has stopped chiming. But its concrete edifice has not yet crumbled. And we must take care not to be crushed beneath its rubble instead of gaining liberty.” The fact that in that rubble, if rubble there was to be, there would be the world’s largest nuclear arsenal, spread between four separate countries (the three Slavic ones and Kazakhstan), frightened statesmen around the world. When, as the economy worsened, Mr Gorbachev went to President George Bush for $10bn-15bn, Bush’s top concern was the nuclear threat. The same worry had led him to oppose Ukraine’s secession in a speech given just before the August coup. “Do you realise what you’ve done?” Mr Gorbachev demanded of Mr Shushkevich. “Once Bush finds out about this, what then?”
The question was being answered on one of the lodge’s other phone lines. Andrei Kozyrev, Russia’s first foreign minister, had had trouble getting through to Bush. A State Department receptionist—Mr Kozyrev did not have the White House number with him—told the man with a Russian accent demanding that she connect someone called Mr Yeltsin to the president that she was “not in the mood for prank calls”. Nor could Mr Kozyrev be called back in a way that might prove his bona fides: he had no idea of the lodge’s phone number. In the end, though, he got through, and was able to act as interpreter as Yeltsin explained to Bush that the world’s largest nuclear arsenal was now in the hands of something called the cis.
If Mr Gorbachev had been unclear how Bush would react, so was Bush himself. A voice memo he recorded the next day is a string of anxious questions: “I find myself on this Monday night, worrying about military action. Where was the army—they’ve been silent. What will happen? Can this get out of hand? Will Gorbachev resign? Will he try to fight back? Will Yeltsin have thought this out properly? It is tough—a very tough situation.” Similar doubt assailed the three presidents in the forest. When Yeltsin and his entourage set off back to Moscow, they joked about their plane being shot down. The laughter was not entirely free from anxiety.
Instead the shooting down of planes, along with the violation of Ukrainian sovereignty, the seizure of Crimea, the reassertion that the legacy of Kyivian Rus meant the nations must be shackled together and the reversion of Belarus to dictatorship—that all came later, a sequence of events which led, 30 Decembers later, to 70,000 or more Russian troops on the border of Ukraine and, in a ghastly sideshow, thousands of Middle Eastern refugees stuck in the Belovezh forest itself. The once seemingly settled question of post-Soviet relations between the three nations has once again become an overriding geopolitical concern.
Back then, though, as he stood among the snow-capped pine trees after leaving the meeting, Yeltsin was overcome by a sense of lightness and freedom. “In signing this agreement,” he later recalled, “Russia was choosing a different path, a path of internal development rather than an imperial one…She was throwing off the traditional image of ‘potentate of half the world’, of armed conflict with Western civilisation, and the role of policeman in the resolution of ethnic conflicts. The last hour of the Soviet empire was chiming.” Maybe the convoluted interdependency of Russia and Ukraine did not matter as much as people thought; maybe democratic nationhood was enough. Maybe the problem had been a failure of imagination.
In 1994, after three years of horrific economic contraction, two of the three men who had met at Viskuli fell from power. In Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, who had previously run a large collective piggery, won election over Mr Shushkevich. Mr Lukashenko told people he would sort out the economic mess by taking them back to the security they had had before. Reforms stopped—as would, at a later stage of Mr Lukashenko’s now 27-year reign, competitive and fair elections. The flag, which had been changed to the red and white of the very short-lived Belarusian Republic of 1918, was turned back to one like that of the Soviet era.
There was no such turnaround in Ukraine, where Mr Kravchuk lost the presidential election to Leonid Kuchma, a skilled Soviet-era industrial manager. Mr Kravchuk held the more nationalistic, Ukrainian-speaking west of the country; Mr Kuchma took the Russian-speaking and collectivist regions to the east. But unlike Mr Lukashenko, Mr Kuchma was not a reactionary, and he was to prove canny in wooing Ukrainians who had at first distrusted him.
Yeltsin was not required to stand for election that year. But a year earlier he and his reformists had faced down an insurgency by Communists and an assortment of anti-Western, anti-democratic factions led by the speaker of the parliament. One of their grievances was the loss of Crimea, a peninsula in the Black Sea reallocated from the Russian republic to the Ukrainian republic in 1954 but still seen as part of Russia by most Russians. A holidaying place for both the Soviet elite and for millions of ordinary people, it had been at the heart of the imperial project since the days of Catherine the Great.
The insurgency of 1993 was bloody; Yeltsin ordered the parliament building shelled by tanks. The public stood by him. A referendum held in the aftermath greatly increased the powers of the presidency. His foreign supporters stood by him too, and the following year a security agreement saw America, Britain and Russia guarantee respect for Ukraine’s integrity within its existing borders—which is to say, including Crimea—in exchange for its giving up the nuclear weapons it had inherited from the Soviet Union. Ukraine was grateful; the West saw further evidence of a transition towards a liberal, democratic Russian state.
Some, though, thought this dangerously optimistic; one such was Zbigniew Brzezinski, a Polish-American diplomat and former national security adviser. In March 1994 Brzezinski took his own shot at Solzhenitsyn’s question—the question he believed, rightly, to provoke “the greatest passion from the majority of politicians as well as citizens, namely ‘What is Russia?’” Rather than give a definitive answer, he gave an alternative one: “Russia can be either an empire or a democracy, but it cannot be both.”
He was right. Yeltsin’s unburdened moment among the trees had been that of a man who did not want to, and did not have to, rule an empire. He consciously rejected not just the Soviet Union’s ideology and central planning, but also the tools of statecraft that had held it together—repression and lies. To him, the market economy was a condition for freedom, not a substitute for it. His successor, Vladimir Putin, also embraced capitalism. But he saw no need for it to bring freedom with it, and had no problem with a state run through repression and lies. He thus reversed Yeltsin’s democratic project and, though not at first territorially imperialist himself, took the country down the other side of Brzezinski’s fork. It is that which puts Russia and its Slavic neighbours in such a parlous position today.
One of Brzezinski’s problems with Yeltsin’s Russia was “that the emerging capitalist class in Russia is strikingly parasitic”. By the time Mr Putin became president in 2000 Russia was run by an oligarchic elite which saw the state as a source of personal enrichment. But when pollsters asked people what they expected of their incoming president, reducing this corruption was not their highest priority. The standing of the state was. Russians wanted a strong state and one respected abroad. As Mr Putin’s successful manifesto put it, “A strong state is not an anomaly to fight against. Society desires the restoration of the guiding, organising role of the state.” When, shortly after his election, Mr Putin restored the Soviet anthem, it was not as a symbol of reverting to central planning or rebuilding an empire. It was a signal that the strong state was back. State power did not mean the rule of law or a climate of fairness. It did not have, or need, an ideology. But it did have to take on some of the “geopolitical reality” that the meeting in Viskuli had stripped from the Soviet Union.
The strong state which provided an effective cover for kleptocracy in Mr Putin’s Russia was not an option for Mr Kuchma’s similarly oligarchic Ukraine. It had no real history as a state, let alone a strong one. Its national myth was one of Cossacks riding free. So in Ukraine the stealing was instead dressed up in terms of growing into that distinctive national identity. The essence of the argument was simple. As Mr Kuchma put it in a book published in 2003, “Ukraine is not Russia”.

This was not an attack on Russia. Ukrainians liked Russia. Polls showed that they admired Mr Putin more than they did Mr Kuchma. It was just a way of defining things that put the nation first. And Mr Putin had no problem with it. Ukraine might not be Russia, but it was not significantly different from Russia, let alone threateningly so. It was just a bit more corrupt and chaotic.
The degree to which Ukraine was not Russia became clearer, though, in 2004, when a rigged presidential election saw hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians protesting in the streets. Mr Kuchma could have used force against them; Mr Putin encouraged him to do so. But various considerations, including Western opprobrium, argued against it. Perhaps most fundamental was his sense that, as a Ukrainian president, he could not thus divide the Ukrainian nation. He stayed his hand and allowed a second vote. Viktor Yushchenko, pro-Western and Ukrainian-speaking, beat Viktor Yanukovych, a corrupt thug from Donbas (the easternmost part of the country and, save Crimea, the most ethnically Russian) who had claimed victory the first time round. The “Orange revolution”, as the protest came to be known, was a serious setback for Mr Putin—all the more so when a similar uprising in Georgia, the Rose revolution, put another pro-Western state on his borders.
In 2008 Mr Putin took a constitutionally enforced break from the presidency, swapping jobs with Dmitri Medvedev, his prime minister. The shift did not stop him from overseeing a war against Georgia that summer. In 2010, though, the Orange revolution became, in retrospect, a somewhat Pyrrhic victory. Mr Yushchenko proved a sufficiently poor president that in 2010 Mr Yanukovych was able to beat him in a free and fair election.
Mr Putin’s return to the presidency in 2012 came at a time when the global financial crisis had choked the Russian economy. The rigging of Russia’s parliamentary elections the year before, and the prospect of Mr Putin’s return, had seen tens of thousands take to the streets. And the West, spooked by the increased belligerence Russia had shown in Georgia, was taking a keen interest in Ukraine. The eu offered the country an association agreement which would allow Ukrainians to enjoy the benefits of a deep and comprehensive free-trade agreement and free travel across Europe.
A year earlier a group of economists had told Mr Putin that a customs union with Ukraine would be a smart move. What was more, such a deal would preclude Ukraine’s association with the eu. Pursuing it was thus a way for Mr Putin to achieve three things at once: push back against the West; give Russia a victory that would prove its importance; and help the economy.
Time for some Slavic unity. When Mr Putin flew to Kyiv for a two-day visit in July 2013, his entourage contained both his chief economic adviser and the patriarch of Russia’s Orthodox Church, whose jurisdiction covered both countries. The trip coincided with the 1,025th anniversary of the conversion to Christianity of Prince Vladimir of the Kyivan Rus, and subsequently of the people as a whole, in 988: the “Baptism of Rus”. With Mr Yanukovych he visited the cathedral in Chersonesus, the site in Crimea where Prince Vladimir is said to have been baptised. He and the patriarch also visited Kyiv Pechersk Lavra, a monastery founded in caves a millennium ago.
The commitment he gave there to protecting “our common Fatherland, Great Rus” was not without irony. When in 1674 monks at the Lavra published the “Synopsis”, the first demotic history of Russia, the city was under threat of attack by the Ottoman empire and desperately needed support from the Russian lands to the north. The “Synopsis” sought to encourage Slavic solidarity by stressing the importance of Vladimir and his virtuous Kyivan Rus to Kyiv and Muscovy alike—something historians like Mr Plokhy now see as expedient mythmaking. Mr Putin was cynically mining a mythos itself contrived for political ends.
Mr Yanukovych did not want to be Russia’s vassal. Nor did he share western Europe’s values—especially when applied to matters of anti-corruption. But eventually he had to choose a side. At a secret meeting in Moscow in November 2013, as European leaders were preparing to sign their agreement with Ukraine, he was promised a $15bn credit line with $3bn paid up front. He ditched the European deal. And at 4am on November 30th his goons bludgeoned a few dozen students protesting against his betrayal in Kyiv’s Independence Square, known as Maidan.
By “turning into Lukashenko”, as one journalist put it, Mr Yanukovych crystallised the choice facing Ukraine: dignity? Or subservience? Tents sprang up on Maidan. Volunteers distributed food and clothes. Oligarchs, afraid that a deal with Russia would see their ill-gotten gains stolen from them, tried to restrain Mr Yanukovych. Mr Putin pressed him to use force. Mr Yanukovych dithered until, on February 18th, Kyiv went up in flames. Nobody agrees on who fired the first shot. But by the third day of violence around 130 people were dead, mostly on the protesters’ side, and Mr Yanukovych—to everyone’s surprise—had fled Kyiv.
This was far worse, for Mr Putin, than the Orange revolution. Ukraine had made geopolitical reality, to coin a phrase, of the independence it had claimed two decades before. Its demands for dignity resonated with Russia’s middle class and some of its elite, making it a genuinely dangerous example. So Mr Putin annexed Crimea and started a war in Donbas.
According to Russian state media, Mr Putin was not undermining a revolution against a corrupt regime quite like his own; he was protecting the Russian people and language from extermination at the hands of western Ukrainian fascists. The relevance to Russia of the issues that had led to what was being called in Ukraine “the revolution of dignity” was thus obscured. At the same time the brutality in Donbas, relentlessly televised, showed Russians the disastrous consequences of rising up: civil war.
On March 18th Russia’s ruling elite watched Mr Putin enter the Kremlin’s gilded Hall of St George in triumph as he hailed the return of Crimea and, thereby, Russia; the annexation was supported by nearly 90% of the Russian population. A year later he had a stone from Chersonesus brought to Moscow to be built into the pedestal of a giant statue of Prince Vladimir outside the Kremlin gates. In “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians”, a tract published in both Russian, Ukrainian and English in July 2021, Mr Putin described how the inheritors of “Ancient Rus” had been torn apart by hostile powers and treacherous elites, and how Ukraine had been turned from being “not Russia” into an anti-Russia, an entity fundamentally incompatible with Russia’s goals.
All baloney. Mr Putin did not attack Ukraine in order to honour or recreate an empire, whether Russian or Soviet. He attacked it to protect his own rule; the history is window-dressing. At the same time, following Brzezinski, for Russia to be something other than a democracy it has to at least be able to think of itself as an empire. And in Russia, empire requires Ukraine—now more deeply opposed to union with Russia than ever before.
In november 2021 Vladislav Surkov, Mr Putin’s cynical, loyal ideologist, turned his attention to the question of empire. “The Russian state, with its severe and inflexible interior, survived exclusively because of its tireless expansion beyond its borders. It has long lost the knowledge —how to survive otherwise.” The only way Russia can escape chaos, he argued, is to export it to a neighbouring country. What he did not say was that Mr Putin’s export of chaos, and violence, to that end has severed the ties between the Slavic nations and their peoples in a way which the collapse of the Soviet empire did not.
Mr Putin now talks of the collapse of the Soviet Union as “The collapse of historical Russia under the name of the Soviet Union.” But he has hardly restored its empire. Ukraine is not a province, or a colony; it is a beleaguered nation in a messy, perilous process of self-realisation. Belarus, for its part, is a grim illustration of how “severe and inflexible” things have to get in order to stop such aspirations welling up. Mr Lukashenko has met a nationalist resurgence with ever more brutal and well-orchestrated repression—a bloody irony given that he helped start it.
When Mr Putin annexed Crimea Mr Lukashenko feared his own fief might be next. So he decided to strengthen the Belarusian identity which he had previously worked to suppress. It was an opening he would regret. Social media quickly gave well-prepared liberal nationalists access to half of the country’s population. In 2018 the centenary of the Belarusian republic saw its red-and-white flag rise again.
In 2020 Svetlana Tikhanovskaya, previously apolitical, ran against Mr Lukashenko in the presidential election in place of her husband, who had been jailed, the red-and-white flag waving over her rallies. When Mr Lukashenko stole that election on August 9th it was in the same flag that protesters draped a vast statue of their motherland. Like Ukraine, Belarus had no real history of statehood; all that Mr Lukashenko had given it since 1994 was a rough approximation of its Soviet past, fascism with Stalinist trappings. But the idea of something better had taken hold.
Unlike the Ukrainians, though, the protesters in Belarus had no independence-friendly oligarchs to take their side. They had no equivalent to the radical fringe of western Ukrainians who had shown themselves ready to kill and ready to die on Maidan. And they were pitted against someone who would not stay his hand, as Mr Kuchma had, or cut and run, like Mr Yanukovych. Mr Lukashenko doubled down on repression, his brutality honed and guided by experts from Moscow.
For Mr Putin, the situation has become the reverse of that faced at Viskuli 30 years ago. Then a free and independent Ukraine—and, to a lesser extent, Belarus—were a necessary condition for what Russia sought to become. Now such freedom would constitute an intolerable affront to Russia staying as it is. At the same time, though, their struggles feed Mr Putin’s need for enemies. Russia’s great-power “geopolitical reality”, as sold to the people, has become that of a besieged fortress. America is the enemy-in-chief; Ukraine, and those within Belarus and Russia itself who have aspirations like those seen in the “revolution of dignity”, are its lackeys, all the more despicable for betraying their kin.
Russian propaganda outlets are baying for war. But that does not mean Mr Putin plans to take fresh territory. He has never laid claim to the western part of the country. He is probably aware that there are now enough Ukrainian patriots to fight Russian occupation in central and even eastern parts of Ukraine, and that the army he has massed on the border would prove less good at occupation than invasion. But he still needs conflict and subordination. Left unmolested a free Ukraine reopens the existential threat of an alternative to empire.
Ukraine’s struggles since 2014 have been slow, frustrating and messy. According to Evgeny Golovakha, a sociologist, this is in part because “Ukrainians love to experiment.” True to that assessment, in 2019 they elected Volodymyr Zelensky, who as a television comedian had played a history teacher accidentally elevated to the presidency, to tackle the role in real life. His biggest achievement, so far, has been to consolidate protest votes against the old elite across Ukraine, making the electoral map look more cohesive than it has ever looked in the past. That will not necessarily stop him getting voted out in two years’ time. “We find it easier to change power than to change ourselves,” says Yulia Mostovaya, the editor of Zerkalo Nedeli, an online news outlet.
But change is afoot; it can be seen in the way that demography increasingly trumps regional allegiance. Even in the east nearly 60% of those born since 1991 see their future as in the eu—countrywide, the figure is 75%. All told 90% want Ukraine to stay independent, and nearly 80% are optimistic about its future.
The same optimism is hard to find in Russia, let alone stricken Belarus. But the same yearnings are there, especially among the young. That is why Alexei Navalny was first poisoned and is now jailed. As the leader of the opposition to Mr Putin he has championed the idea of Russia not as an empire but as a civic nation: a state for the people. It is why Russia has recently become much more repressive. It is why Mr Putin cannot tolerate a true peace on his borders.
Unlike Ukrainians and Belarusians, Russians cannot separate themselves from Russia, so they have to change it from within. They cannot do that in a forest retreat, or with a few phone calls. But only through such change will they become truly independent of the Soviet Union.
https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2021/12/18/why-russia-has-never-accepted-ukrainian-independence?
Date: 26/02/2022 13:45:01
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853040
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
Chernobyl could be turned into one giant dirty bomb.
But dirty bombs are a threat, and not a practical military strategy. Russia wants to own Ukraine’s resources, not destroy it.
He could use Ukraine as a launch pad to surrounding areas by the threat of using dirty bombs.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:45:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853041
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/02/2022 13:51:25
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853043
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/02/2022 13:52:05
From: Woodie
ID: 1853044
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
OMG!!!!
Russia banned from Eurovision!!
It’s all over, Mr Poo tin. No Eurovision. So there.
That’s sure to fix it now.
Date: 26/02/2022 13:59:14
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853045
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Russia vetoes UN Security Council resolution
Sonia Lal 1 hour ago
White House asks Congress for $6.4 billion for Ukraine crisis
In an unsurprising move Russia has vetoed a UN Security Council resolution that demands Moscow cease its attack on Ukraine and withdraw all troops.
The vote was 11 to one, with China, India, and the UAE abstaining.
It highlights that wide-ranging, but not complete opposition to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine from global actors.
READ MORE: Ukraine’s capital under threat
Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Nations Sergiy Kyslytsya says he will not dignify any of Russia’s false claims with a response.
The US along with other countries predicted the resolution was unlikely to pass, but argued it would illustrate Russia’s growing isolationism in the international sphere.
The failure of the resolution means its supporters can vote on a similar measure in the UN General Assembly.
In the General Assembly none of the 193-member states are able to veto a resolution being put forward.
At this stage there no time has been scheduled for a potential General Assembly vote.
Video: Russian invasion nears Ukraine’s capital (Sky News Australia)
Pause
Current Time 0:05
/
Duration 7:35
Unmute
0
LQ
CaptionFull screen
Russian invasion nears Ukraine’s capital
Click to expand
In a heated exchange during today’s UN Security Council meeting, Ukraine’s representative Sergiy Kyslytsya has rebuked claims from Russia’s representative that images and footage emerging from the conflict in Ukraine are false.
READ MORE: US President personally sanctions Putin
Russia’s UN Ambassador Russia Vasily Nebenzya said a lot of the images and footage emerging from the conflict in Ukraine are false.
“There are videos alleging Russian strikes targeting residential areas, which were filmed in other parts of the world and have nothing to do with Ukraine,” Russian ambassador Vasily Nebenzya said.
“I will not dignify the Russian diabolical script that is rather a letter of application for a rather up-scaled seat in hell,” Mr Kyslytsya replied.
US representative Linda Thomas-Greenfield joined Mr Kyslytsya in condemning Russia’s accusations.
“I’m not going to respond to the atrocious lies and propaganda, and misinformation that you’ve heard from our Russian colleague,” Ms Thomas-Greenfield said.
Then Kyslytsya called on the entire UN Security Council to “dedicate a moment of complete silence to pray or to meditate, if you do not believe in God, for peace.”
“To pray for the souls of those who have already been killed. For souls of those who may be killed.
“And I invite the Russian ambassador to pray for salvation.”
Nothing new to see here. This is why Putin thinks he’s untouchable here.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:00:57
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853047
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
OMG!!!!
Russia banned from Eurovision!!
It’s all over, Mr Poo tin. No Eurovision. So there.
That’s sure to fix it now.
If six was nine, I don’t care.
I just don’t care.
Putin doesn’t give a flying fuck.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:05:41
From: party_pants
ID: 1853049
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
They don’t need to. They have plenty enough of their own to do whatever it is they like.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:07:24
From: dv
ID: 1853050
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Woodie said:
OMG!!!!
Russia banned from Eurovision!!
It’s all over, Mr Poo tin. No Eurovision. So there.
That’s sure to fix it now.
If six was nine, I don’t care.
I just don’t care.
Putin doesn’t give a flying fuck.
They are probably going to qualify for the world cup so it will be interesting to see whether FIFA bars them.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:09:11
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853051
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
They don’t need to. They have plenty enough of their own to do whatever it is they like.
Why are they surrounding the ‘core’?
Date: 26/02/2022 14:10:31
From: party_pants
ID: 1853052
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
They don’t need to. They have plenty enough of their own to do whatever it is they like.
Why are they surrounding the ‘core’?
I don’t know. Maybe they fear the Ukrainians doing something with it as a last ditch act of vengeance, so they want to make sure it is in their possession.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:12:07
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853053
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
They don’t need to. They have plenty enough of their own to do whatever it is they like.
Why are they surrounding the ‘core’?
There’ll be many stories like this a journalists jostle to get their story up.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:12:40
From: Woodie
ID: 1853054
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Oligarchs”
Seems to be word du jour lately.
Do we have any oligarchs?
Date: 26/02/2022 14:12:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853055
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
OMG!!!!
Russia banned from Eurovision!!
It’s all over, Mr Poo tin. No Eurovision. So there.
That’s sure to fix it now.
We had hoped that it wouldn’t come to that.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:14:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853056
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
roughbarked said:
Woodie said:
OMG!!!!
Russia banned from Eurovision!!
It’s all over, Mr Poo tin. No Eurovision. So there.
That’s sure to fix it now.
If six was nine, I don’t care.
I just don’t care.
Putin doesn’t give a flying fuck.
They are probably going to qualify for the world cup so it will be interesting to see whether FIFA bars them doesn’t mind taking their money.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:15:11
From: Woodie
ID: 1853057
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
roughbarked said:
Woodie said:
OMG!!!!
Russia banned from Eurovision!!
It’s all over, Mr Poo tin. No Eurovision. So there.
That’s sure to fix it now.
If six was nine, I don’t care.
I just don’t care.
Putin doesn’t give a flying fuck.
They are probably going to qualify for the world cup so it will be interesting to see whether FIFA bars them.
Do they still have any qualifiers to go? Why not ban them from that as well?
Date: 26/02/2022 14:15:11
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853058
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
OMG!!!!
Russia banned from Eurovision!!
It’s all over, Mr Poo tin. No Eurovision. So there.
That’s sure to fix it now.
Does the US have a Dollarvision contest?
Date: 26/02/2022 14:16:00
From: party_pants
ID: 1853059
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
“Oligarchs”
Seems to be word du jour lately.
Do we have any oligarchs?
They are not really “oligarchs” according to the proper dictionary definition. They don’t rule the country as such. In fact they kinda do as they are told by the Kremlin or they get arrested and stripped of their assets.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:16:08
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853060
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
Could they use Chernobyl to manufacture dirty bombs?
They don’t need to. They have plenty enough of their own to do whatever it is they like.
Why are they surrounding the ‘core’?
Like i said before, what’s the one place that you can sure that the Ukrainians don’t want to bomb for fear of hurting their own country?
Answer: the wreckage of Chernobyl.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:18:24
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853061
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
monkey skipper said:
party_pants said:
They don’t need to. They have plenty enough of their own to do whatever it is they like.
Why are they surrounding the ‘core’?
Like i said before, what’s the one place that you can sure that the Ukrainians don’t want to bomb for fear of hurting their own country?
Answer: the wreckage of Chernobyl.
IFL science reported a rise in radiation from Chernobyl. but perhaps they have been just stirring it up.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:24:57
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853063
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
“Oligarchs”
Seems to be word du jour lately.
Do we have any oligarchs?
maybe we’ll have one less soon when he dies of unvaccinated COVID-19 complications
Date: 26/02/2022 14:25:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853064
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
captain_spalding said:
monkey skipper said:
Why are they surrounding the ‘core’?
Like i said before, what’s the one place that you can sure that the Ukrainians don’t want to bomb for fear of hurting their own country?
Answer: the wreckage of Chernobyl.
IFL science reported a rise in radiation from Chernobyl. but perhaps they have been just stirring it up.
Driving tanks around can do that.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:26:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853065
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
captain_spalding said:
monkey skipper said:
Why are they surrounding the ‘core’?
Like i said before, what’s the one place that you can sure that the Ukrainians don’t want to bomb for fear of hurting their own country?
Answer: the wreckage of Chernobyl.
IFL science reported a rise in radiation from Chernobyl. but perhaps they have been just stirring it up.
well if you roll heavy machinery over nuclear waste dirt then it’s believable that some gets kicked up
Date: 26/02/2022 14:28:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853066
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
sarahs mum said:
captain_spalding said:
Like i said before, what’s the one place that you can sure that the Ukrainians don’t want to bomb for fear of hurting their own country?
Answer: the wreckage of Chernobyl.
IFL science reported a rise in radiation from Chernobyl. but perhaps they have been just stirring it up.
well if you roll heavy machinery over nuclear waste dirt then it’s believable that some gets kicked up
I’m sure you meant inevitable.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:29:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853068
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Is Vladimir Putin secretly rich? Why sanctioning Russia’s leader over invading Ukraine is so tricky
When the West imposed sanctions on Russia this week in response to the country’s invasion of Ukraine, the financial punishments got closer to Vladimir Putin than ever before.
Among the fresh targets were the Russian Defence Minister and chief of staff, the children of two close advisers and several of his richest friends.
By Friday, the European Union appeared to be zeroing in on Putin, agreeing to freeze the assets of the Russian President and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, according to Latvia’s foreign minister.
more…
Date: 26/02/2022 14:31:25
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853070
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Is Vladimir Putin secretly rich? Why sanctioning Russia’s leader over invading Ukraine is so tricky
When the West imposed sanctions on Russia this week in response to the country’s invasion of Ukraine, the financial punishments got closer to Vladimir Putin than ever before.
Among the fresh targets were the Russian Defence Minister and chief of staff, the children of two close advisers and several of his richest friends.
By Friday, the European Union appeared to be zeroing in on Putin, agreeing to freeze the assets of the Russian President and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, according to Latvia’s foreign minister.
more…
Punish the top 50 rich in Russia.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:32:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853071
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
‘Is Vladimir Putin secretly rich?’
No, he’s just doing it for the warm fuzzies.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:35:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853074
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
On SBS One right now. KGB the sword and the shield.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:39:48
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853076
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
‘Is Vladimir Putin secretly rich?’
No, he’s just doing it for the warm fuzzies.
Imagine having 50 percent of the top 50 richest in Russia.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:57:11
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1853091
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russia-Ukraine Conflict Prompted U.S. to Develop Autonomous Drone Swarms, 1,000-Mile Cannon
Wow, those people live in a completely different world. Must be mind blowing to to view current weapon ideas.
Date: 26/02/2022 14:58:29
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853092
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine invasion: Drone footage shows British troops arriving in Estonia
The deployment is part of a NATO mission and comes as Russia invades Ukraine.
Friday 25 February 2022 10:54, UK
https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-invasion-drone-footage-shows-british-troops-arriving-in-estonia-12551088
Date: 26/02/2022 15:11:34
From: Kingy
ID: 1853104
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“2 more merchant ships hit by Russian attacks in Black Sea. Japanese bulk carrier MV Namura Queen hit by a rocket at anchor off Yuzhne. Moldovan chemical tanker MV Millennial Spirit hit and set on fire 12 miles to the south”
Date: 26/02/2022 15:18:28
From: Kingy
ID: 1853110
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Anonymous has hacked and dumped some of Russias military databases.
An extract of emails and passwords:

Date: 26/02/2022 15:22:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853113
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Anonymous has hacked and dumped some of Russias military databases.
An extract of emails and passwords:

do they work
Date: 26/02/2022 15:22:56
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853114
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
“2 more merchant ships hit by Russian attacks in Black Sea. Japanese bulk carrier MV Namura Queen hit by a rocket at anchor off Yuzhne. Moldovan chemical tanker MV Millennial Spirit hit and set on fire 12 miles to the south”
so what next, all we need is a hit on Oyster Bay and we can all join the party and are the nuclear missiles good to go
Date: 26/02/2022 15:37:20
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853122
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Kingy said:
Anonymous has hacked and dumped some of Russias military databases.
An extract of emails and passwords:

do they work
And more importantly are there any new caches of donkey porn?
Date: 26/02/2022 15:41:46
From: dv
ID: 1853124
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Anonymous has hacked and dumped some of Russias military databases.
An extract of emails and passwords:

Who is Billy Daniel with the rape password?
Date: 26/02/2022 15:51:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853129
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian Sanctions On Australia Hurt More Than Australian Sanctions On Russia
Australian households and businesses already hit by steep gas price increases face further rises after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine put a rocket underneath global energy costs.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/military-power-of-ukraine-and-russian-armies/100862848
Date: 26/02/2022 16:04:11
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853132
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Russian Sanctions On Australia Hurt More Than Australian Sanctions On Russia
Australian households and businesses already hit by steep gas price increases face further rises after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine put a rocket underneath global energy costs.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/military-power-of-ukraine-and-russian-armies/100862848
It’s a shame we don’t have resources.
Date: 26/02/2022 16:06:39
From: dv
ID: 1853134
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
SCIENCE said:
Russian Sanctions On Australia Hurt More Than Australian Sanctions On Russia
Australian households and businesses already hit by steep gas price increases face further rises after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine put a rocket underneath global energy costs.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/military-power-of-ukraine-and-russian-armies/100862848
It’s a shame we don’t have resources.
Yeah, what a weird article. Australia is a net energy exporter. We are indeed one of the world’s major exporters of coal and gas. High energy prices might sting a bit locally but they benefit Australia greatly overall.
Date: 26/02/2022 16:11:35
From: party_pants
ID: 1853138
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sarahs mum said:
SCIENCE said:
Russian Sanctions On Australia Hurt More Than Australian Sanctions On Russia
Australian households and businesses already hit by steep gas price increases face further rises after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine put a rocket underneath global energy costs.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/military-power-of-ukraine-and-russian-armies/100862848
It’s a shame we don’t have resources.
Yeah, what a weird article. Australia is a net energy exporter. We are indeed one of the world’s major exporters of coal and gas. High energy prices might sting a bit locally but they benefit Australia greatly overall.
Yes. Australia’s major exports are in the same sort of categories as Russia’s major exports. Apart from oil of course, but other major Russian exports are coal, natural gas, iron ore, copper, nickel, wheat, fertilisers …and things like that. Should be a bit of a commodities boom coming up for Australia if other nations stop buying Russian stuff.
Date: 26/02/2022 16:30:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853140
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
sarahs mum said:
It’s a shame we don’t have resources.
Yeah, what a weird article. Australia is a net energy exporter. We are indeed one of the world’s major exporters of coal and gas. High energy prices might sting a bit locally but they benefit Australia greatly overall.
Yes. Australia’s major exports are in the same sort of categories as Russia’s major exports. Apart from oil of course, but other major Russian exports are coal, natural gas, iron ore, copper, nickel, wheat, fertilisers …and things like that. Should be a bit of a commodities boom coming up for Australia if other nations stop buying Russian stuff.
That’s why prices will rise here.
The people selling the commodities/resources aren’t going to sell them cheap here when they can get better prices elsewhere.
If e.g. Germany wants to buy LNG from Australian sources for a certain price, then Australian customers had better be ready to pony up at least an equivalent bid.
Date: 26/02/2022 16:53:43
From: party_pants
ID: 1853143
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
Yeah, what a weird article. Australia is a net energy exporter. We are indeed one of the world’s major exporters of coal and gas. High energy prices might sting a bit locally but they benefit Australia greatly overall.
Yes. Australia’s major exports are in the same sort of categories as Russia’s major exports. Apart from oil of course, but other major Russian exports are coal, natural gas, iron ore, copper, nickel, wheat, fertilisers …and things like that. Should be a bit of a commodities boom coming up for Australia if other nations stop buying Russian stuff.
That’s why prices will rise here.
The people selling the commodities/resources aren’t going to sell them cheap here when they can get better prices elsewhere.
If e.g. Germany wants to buy LNG from Australian sources for a certain price, then Australian customers had better be ready to pony up at least an equivalent bid.
Except if your state government has set up domestic quotas and price controls.
Date: 26/02/2022 17:03:12
From: dv
ID: 1853146
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
That’s why prices will rise here.
The people selling the commodities/resources aren’t going to sell them cheap here when they can get better prices elsewhere.
If e.g. Germany wants to buy LNG from Australian sources for a certain price, then Australian customers had better be ready to pony up at least an equivalent bid.
Right, but the amount that it drives up local energy prices is swamped by the amount that it drives up incomes and employment.
Date: 26/02/2022 17:05:57
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853147
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
That’s why prices will rise here.
The people selling the commodities/resources aren’t going to sell them cheap here when they can get better prices elsewhere.
If e.g. Germany wants to buy LNG from Australian sources for a certain price, then Australian customers had better be ready to pony up at least an equivalent bid.
Right, but the amount that it drives up local energy prices is swamped by the amount that it drives up incomes and employment.
Another way of stating the L/NP mantra that ‘what’s good for the mining companies is good for the country’. Which may, or may not, be true, according to the occasion.
Date: 26/02/2022 17:09:49
From: dv
ID: 1853148
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
That’s why prices will rise here.
The people selling the commodities/resources aren’t going to sell them cheap here when they can get better prices elsewhere.
If e.g. Germany wants to buy LNG from Australian sources for a certain price, then Australian customers had better be ready to pony up at least an equivalent bid.
Right, but the amount that it drives up local energy prices is swamped by the amount that it drives up incomes and employment.
Another way of stating the L/NP mantra that ‘what’s good for the mining companies is good for the country’. Which may, or may not, be true, according to the occasion.
I wouldn’t go that far because the revenue is always going to be divided between Australia and overseas: it can be the case that a country gets ripped off by extractive companies.
Date: 26/02/2022 17:28:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853154
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
That’s why prices will rise here.
The people selling the commodities/resources aren’t going to sell them cheap here when they can get better prices elsewhere.
If e.g. Germany wants to buy LNG from Australian sources for a certain price, then Australian customers had better be ready to pony up at least an equivalent bid.
Right, but the amount that it drives up local energy prices is swamped by the amount that it drives up incomes and employment.
Another way of stating the L/NP mantra that ‘what’s good for the mining companies is good for the country’. Which may, or may not, be true, according to the occasion.
anything Marketing can take credit for then ¿ Look we secured Chernobyl and we boosted commodity profits Corruption Coalition for the win
Date: 26/02/2022 17:28:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853155
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
That’s why prices will rise here.
The people selling the commodities/resources aren’t going to sell them cheap here when they can get better prices elsewhere.
If e.g. Germany wants to buy LNG from Australian sources for a certain price, then Australian customers had better be ready to pony up at least an equivalent bid.
Right, but the amount that it drives up local energy prices is swamped by the amount that it drives up incomes and employment.
Another way of stating the L/NP mantra that ‘what’s good for the mining companies is good for the country’. Which may, or may not, be true, according to the occasion.
anything Marketing can take credit for then ¿ Look we secured Chernobyl and we boosted commodity profits Corruption Coalition for the win
Date: 26/02/2022 17:30:50
From: Kingy
ID: 1853156
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Missile lands in living room but doesn’t explode:

Date: 26/02/2022 17:31:49
From: dv
ID: 1853158
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Missile lands in living room but doesn’t explode:

lol …
you know I’d probably still get the fuck out of there
Date: 26/02/2022 17:32:45
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853159
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kingy said:
Missile lands in living room but doesn’t explode:

lol …
you know I’d probably still get the fuck out of there
That’s what I was thinking.
Send in the bomb disposal unit.
Date: 26/02/2022 17:42:59
From: Michael V
ID: 1853163
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Missile lands in living room but doesn’t explode:

Where’s The Young Ones when you need them.
Date: 26/02/2022 17:46:05
From: party_pants
ID: 1853164
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Kingy said:
Missile lands in living room but doesn’t explode:

Where’s The Young Ones when you need them.
:)
Exactly my first thought too, where’s Vyvyan?
Date: 26/02/2022 17:48:46
From: buffy
ID: 1853168
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kingy said:
Missile lands in living room but doesn’t explode:

lol …
you know I’d probably still get the fuck out of there
Saw that picture on the news yesterday and wasn’t sure it whether was a missile.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:28:59
From: Kingy
ID: 1853192
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Two US officials confirmed that Ukraine shot down a second Il-76 transport aircraft tonight. If true, this would be a really significant mistake for the Russian military, and possibly the worst loss of life for the Russian Airborne Forces since the 2nd Chechen War.”
Date: 26/02/2022 18:31:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853194
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
“Two US officials confirmed that Ukraine shot down a second Il-76 transport aircraft tonight. If true, this would be a really significant mistake for the Russian military, and possibly the worst loss of life for the Russian Airborne Forces since the 2nd Chechen War.”
Only would be if we actually knew the casuality numbers. eg: we simply don’t know if there were any survivors or if any died at all.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:34:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853195
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A lot of young Russians will die in Ukraine but it’s not something to celebrate. All for the pointless schemes of a demented old criminal.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:38:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853197
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
A lot of young Russians will die in Ukraine but it’s not something to celebrate. All for the pointless schemes of a demented old criminal.
True.
It is all a senseless waste of the future of humanity.
A good leader should be at the front of the charge anyway.
Let Poo-Tin face the Neo-Nazis that don’t exist all by himself.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:39:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853199
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Kingy said:
“Two US officials confirmed that Ukraine shot down a second Il-76 transport aircraft tonight. If true, this would be a really significant mistake for the Russian military, and possibly the worst loss of life for the Russian Airborne Forces since the 2nd Chechen War.”
Only would be if we actually knew the casuality numbers. eg: we simply don’t know if there were any survivors or if any died at all.
Unless the Ukranians count the bodies… The Russian military has not commented on either incident so far, and the reports could not be immediately verified.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:43:47
From: Michael V
ID: 1853201
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia shelled Moldovan-flagged chemical tanker and Panamanian-flagged cargo ship, Ukraine says
Ukraine says Russian warships have shelled a Moldovan-flagged chemical tanker and a Panamanian-flagged cargo ship on Friday local time.
They’re the second and third non-military vessels believed to have been hit since the start of the invasion after a Turkish-owned cargo ship was struck of Odessa on Thursday.
Ukraine’s infrastructure ministry said that the Moldovan-flagged vessel, the Millennial Spirit, was carrying 600 tonnes of diesel at the time of the attack.
Moldova’s naval agency says the Millennial Spirit crew were Russian and that two of them had been seriously injured.
Ukrainian shipping agent Stark Shipping, based in Odessa, says another cargo ship hit by Russian missiles was “flying the flag of Panama was heading to the Pivdennyi port (ex. Yuzhny) to load grain”.
“There was a fire on the ship, the P&O STAR tug moved to the rescue. The situation is under control,” the company added.
The Panama Maritime Authority has urged ships to keep “maximum vigilance and increase security conditions on board” when moving through Ukrainian and Russian waters, in the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.
Reporting by Reuters
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/russia-ukraine-war-live-blog-saturday-feb-26/100863590
Date: 26/02/2022 18:47:08
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853203
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Beside myself impatiently waiting for Putin to be deposed and dragged before the Hague for crimes against humanity.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:48:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853205
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Let Poo-Tin face the Neo-Nazis that don’t exist all by himself.
Putin’s greatest fear was a prosperous and independent Ukraine.
To have such an example, right on the doorstep of his Russia, with so many similarities to and shared experiences with that same Russia, would be dreadful for him.
A country so much like Russia, doing well without a gangster like Putin running it, along with his Mafia of favourites and toadies. Making its own foreign policy, looking away from Russia, towards Europe and the other Western countries. Reaping the benefits of a world view that didn’t demonise the West, but which saw it as an opportunity rather than a propagandised ‘threat’.
Can you imagine how difficult that would have made things for Putin? When Russians started asking themselves ‘why can’t we live like that, why do we have to put up with the shit we have now?’.
No. He couldn’t let it happen.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:49:40
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853206
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine says it repulsed major attack on Kyiv base, shot down 2 Russian transports
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s army said Saturday it had repelled a Russian attack on an army base on one of the capital city Kyiv’s main avenues and shot down several Russian aircraft, including a transport carrying paratroopers.
more…
Date: 26/02/2022 18:51:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853207
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Let Poo-Tin face the Neo-Nazis that don’t exist all by himself.
Putin’s greatest fear was a prosperous and independent Ukraine.
To have such an example, right on the doorstep of his Russia, with so many similarities to and shared experiences with that same Russia, would be dreadful for him.
A country so much like Russia, doing well without a gangster like Putin running it, along with his Mafia of favourites and toadies. Making its own foreign policy, looking away from Russia, towards Europe and the other Western countries. Reaping the benefits of a world view that didn’t demonise the West, but which saw it as an opportunity rather than a propagandised ‘threat’.
Can you imagine how difficult that would have made things for Putin? When Russians started asking themselves ‘why can’t we live like that, why do we have to put up with the shit we have now?’.
No. He couldn’t let it happen.
Imagine if Pearl S. Buck was writing the tale.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:52:59
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853209
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ukraine says it repulsed major attack on Kyiv base, shot down 2 Russian transports
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s army said Saturday it had repelled a Russian attack on an army base on one of the capital city Kyiv’s main avenues and shot down several Russian aircraft, including a transport carrying paratroopers.
more…
If paratroopers were on both planes, that could be a loss of up to 300 Russians.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:54:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853210
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Let Poo-Tin face the Neo-Nazis that don’t exist all by himself.
Putin’s greatest fear was a prosperous and independent Ukraine.
To have such an example, right on the doorstep of his Russia, with so many similarities to and shared experiences with that same Russia, would be dreadful for him.
A country so much like Russia, doing well without a gangster like Putin running it, along with his Mafia of favourites and toadies. Making its own foreign policy, looking away from Russia, towards Europe and the other Western countries. Reaping the benefits of a world view that didn’t demonise the West, but which saw it as an opportunity rather than a propagandised ‘threat’.
Can you imagine how difficult that would have made things for Putin? When Russians started asking themselves ‘why can’t we live like that, why do we have to put up with the shit we have now?’.
No. He couldn’t let it happen.
A prosperous, independent and genuinely democratic Ukraine, governed by rule of law and due respect for human rights.
It’s not the Putin way, it’s not the Russian way. So Russia must unite to fight what, um….Nazis and drug addicts!
Date: 26/02/2022 18:54:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853211
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ukraine says it repulsed major attack on Kyiv base, shot down 2 Russian transports
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s army said Saturday it had repelled a Russian attack on an army base on one of the capital city Kyiv’s main avenues and shot down several Russian aircraft, including a transport carrying paratroopers.
more…
If paratroopers were on both planes, that could be a loss of up to 300 Russians.
The abc posted this four hours ago.
As fighting persisted, Ukraine’s military said it had shot down an II-76 Russian transport plane carrying paratroopers near Vasylkiv, a city 40 kilometres south of Kyiv, an account confirmed by a senior American intelligence official, according to the Associated Press.
It was unclear how many were on board. Transport planes can carry up to 125 paratroopers.
A second Russian military transport plane was shot down near Bila Tserkva, 85 kilometres south of Kyiv, according to two American officials with direct knowledge of conditions on the ground in Ukraine.
The Russian military has not commented on either plane.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:55:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853212
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Let Poo-Tin face the Neo-Nazis that don’t exist all by himself.
Putin’s greatest fear was a prosperous and independent Ukraine.
To have such an example, right on the doorstep of his Russia, with so many similarities to and shared experiences with that same Russia, would be dreadful for him.
A country so much like Russia, doing well without a gangster like Putin running it, along with his Mafia of favourites and toadies. Making its own foreign policy, looking away from Russia, towards Europe and the other Western countries. Reaping the benefits of a world view that didn’t demonise the West, but which saw it as an opportunity rather than a propagandised ‘threat’.
Can you imagine how difficult that would have made things for Putin? When Russians started asking themselves ‘why can’t we live like that, why do we have to put up with the shit we have now?’.
No. He couldn’t let it happen.
A prosperous, independent and genuinely democratic Ukraine, governed by rule of law and due respect for human rights.
It’s not the Putin way, it’s not the Russian way. So Russia must unite to fight what, um….Nazis and drug addicts!
Rise up Russian people and overthrow the overlord.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:55:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853213
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ukraine says it repulsed major attack on Kyiv base, shot down 2 Russian transports
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s army said Saturday it had repelled a Russian attack on an army base on one of the capital city Kyiv’s main avenues and shot down several Russian aircraft, including a transport carrying paratroopers.
more…
If paratroopers were on both planes, that could be a loss of up to 300 Russians.
The abc posted this four hours ago.
As fighting persisted, Ukraine’s military said it had shot down an II-76 Russian transport plane carrying paratroopers near Vasylkiv, a city 40 kilometres south of Kyiv, an account confirmed by a senior American intelligence official, according to the Associated Press.
It was unclear how many were on board. Transport planes can carry up to 125 paratroopers.
A second Russian military transport plane was shot down near Bila Tserkva, 85 kilometres south of Kyiv, according to two American officials with direct knowledge of conditions on the ground in Ukraine.
The Russian military has not commented on either plane.
They’ll probably deny that they were Russian, but belonged to that rogue nation that marks its vehicles with a ‘Z’.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:56:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853214
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
Putin’s greatest fear was a prosperous and independent Ukraine.
To have such an example, right on the doorstep of his Russia, with so many similarities to and shared experiences with that same Russia, would be dreadful for him.
A country so much like Russia, doing well without a gangster like Putin running it, along with his Mafia of favourites and toadies. Making its own foreign policy, looking away from Russia, towards Europe and the other Western countries. Reaping the benefits of a world view that didn’t demonise the West, but which saw it as an opportunity rather than a propagandised ‘threat’.
Can you imagine how difficult that would have made things for Putin? When Russians started asking themselves ‘why can’t we live like that, why do we have to put up with the shit we have now?’.
No. He couldn’t let it happen.
A prosperous, independent and genuinely democratic Ukraine, governed by rule of law and due respect for human rights.
It’s not the Putin way, it’s not the Russian way. So Russia must unite to fight what, um….Nazis and drug addicts!
Rise up Russian people and overthrow the overlord.
Yeah, they did that once, and look where it got them.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:56:39
From: party_pants
ID: 1853215
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Beside myself impatiently waiting for Putin to be deposed and dragged before the Hague for crimes against humanity.
I was thinking a quiet little village in northern Italy….
Date: 26/02/2022 18:57:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853216
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
If paratroopers were on both planes, that could be a loss of up to 300 Russians.
The abc posted this four hours ago.
As fighting persisted, Ukraine’s military said it had shot down an II-76 Russian transport plane carrying paratroopers near Vasylkiv, a city 40 kilometres south of Kyiv, an account confirmed by a senior American intelligence official, according to the Associated Press.
It was unclear how many were on board. Transport planes can carry up to 125 paratroopers.
A second Russian military transport plane was shot down near Bila Tserkva, 85 kilometres south of Kyiv, according to two American officials with direct knowledge of conditions on the ground in Ukraine.
The Russian military has not commented on either plane.
They’ll probably deny that they were Russian, but belonged to that rogue nation that marks its vehicles with a ‘Z’.
Ah.. those Neo-Nazi separitists.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:58:05
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1853217
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ukraine says it repulsed major attack on Kyiv base, shot down 2 Russian transports
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s army said Saturday it had repelled a Russian attack on an army base on one of the capital city Kyiv’s main avenues and shot down several Russian aircraft, including a transport carrying paratroopers.
more…
A little different to what happened in Afghanistan.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:59:02
From: party_pants
ID: 1853218
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Let Poo-Tin face the Neo-Nazis that don’t exist all by himself.
Putin’s greatest fear was a prosperous and independent Ukraine.
To have such an example, right on the doorstep of his Russia, with so many similarities to and shared experiences with that same Russia, would be dreadful for him.
A country so much like Russia, doing well without a gangster like Putin running it, along with his Mafia of favourites and toadies. Making its own foreign policy, looking away from Russia, towards Europe and the other Western countries. Reaping the benefits of a world view that didn’t demonise the West, but which saw it as an opportunity rather than a propagandised ‘threat’.
Can you imagine how difficult that would have made things for Putin? When Russians started asking themselves ‘why can’t we live like that, why do we have to put up with the shit we have now?’.
No. He couldn’t let it happen.
Pretty much it.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:59:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853219
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
roughbarked said:
Beside myself impatiently waiting for Putin to be deposed and dragged before the Hague for crimes against humanity.
I was thinking a quiet little village in northern Italy….
Sadly all the critters in positions of power in Russia are paid Putin appointees. He himself is protected by an army of loyal goons.
People Power will need to be extra-powerful to uproot this toxic weed.
Date: 26/02/2022 18:59:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853220
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
A prosperous, independent and genuinely democratic Ukraine, governed by rule of law and due respect for human rights.
It’s not the Putin way, it’s not the Russian way. So Russia must unite to fight what, um….Nazis and drug addicts!
Rise up Russian people and overthrow the overlord.
Yeah, they did that once, and look where it got them.
Well, this time they can get rid of the KGB as well.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:00:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853221
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
roughbarked said:
Beside myself impatiently waiting for Putin to be deposed and dragged before the Hague for crimes against humanity.
I was thinking a quiet little village in northern Italy….
Sadly all the critters in positions of power in Russia are paid Putin appointees. He himself is protected by an army of loyal goons.
People Power will need to be extra-powerful to uproot this toxic weed.
A tactical nuke on the kremlin then?
Date: 26/02/2022 19:00:30
From: party_pants
ID: 1853222
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
If paratroopers were on both planes, that could be a loss of up to 300 Russians.
The abc posted this four hours ago.
As fighting persisted, Ukraine’s military said it had shot down an II-76 Russian transport plane carrying paratroopers near Vasylkiv, a city 40 kilometres south of Kyiv, an account confirmed by a senior American intelligence official, according to the Associated Press.
It was unclear how many were on board. Transport planes can carry up to 125 paratroopers.
A second Russian military transport plane was shot down near Bila Tserkva, 85 kilometres south of Kyiv, according to two American officials with direct knowledge of conditions on the ground in Ukraine.
The Russian military has not commented on either plane.
They’ll probably deny that they were Russian, but belonged to that rogue nation that marks its vehicles with a ‘Z’.
Russia has been known to use mercenary forces.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:03:29
From: party_pants
ID: 1853223
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:03:45
From: Kingy
ID: 1853224
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian missile strike on a residential apartment building in Ukraine

Date: 26/02/2022 19:04:52
From: party_pants
ID: 1853225
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Just don’t ask me who.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:05:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853226
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
party_pants said:
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Just don’t ask me who.
I was just about to.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:05:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853227
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
party_pants said:
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Just don’t ask me who.
You’re excused from duty due to a missing toe.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:06:01
From: dv
ID: 1853228
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The only parts of the former USSR that are now in NATO and the EU are the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. They are generally prosperous, stable and democratic places with GDP per capita more than 2x that of Russia.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:07:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853229
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
party_pants said:
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Just don’t ask me who.
Hey, if we drew up some dodgy map that showed that big chunks of eastern Siberia and Sakhalin island had ‘always ‘traditionally’ been part of China’, and left it where President Pooh would be sure to find it…
Date: 26/02/2022 19:08:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853231
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’m too fat and old to go defend the old country, and my only defensive skills are my good nature and powers of reasoning.
Not effective weapons in this kind of conflict.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:08:50
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853232
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
party_pants said:
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Just don’t ask me who.
Japan.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:12:02
From: party_pants
ID: 1853235
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
party_pants said:
party_pants said:
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Just don’t ask me who.
Japan.
their constitution says no.
Mind you, they are still technically at war with the Soviet Union over possession of some of these islands.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:23:45
From: Michael V
ID: 1853239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
party_pants said:
Maybe it is time to invade and seize Vladivostok and the nearby islands. Sink their Pacific Fleet too.
Just don’t ask me who.
Hey, if we drew up some dodgy map that showed that big chunks of eastern Siberia and Sakhalin island had ‘always ‘traditionally’ been part of China’, and left it where President Pooh would be sure to find it…
Now there’s an idea.
:)
Date: 26/02/2022 19:34:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853243
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Okean Elzy was/is arguably Ukraine’s top rock/pop band. Frontman Svyatoslav Vakarchuk was UN’s Ambassador of Good Will, 2005.
Here’s their Не йди (Don’t Go) a typical don’t leave me song but with the usual nice Ukrainian despair :)
Океан Ельзи – Не йди (official video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD4h9Fdn3-o&list=PLSTJHXWWhQLxzMwXRyEa-FStobOgP2B8a&index=5
Date: 26/02/2022 19:40:20
From: Woodie
ID: 1853244
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Did you just see that? On the tele?
That tank just went straight for that car and ran it over. Driven by a little of lady.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:40:36
From: dv
ID: 1853246
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian Daniil Medvedev is the world’s number 1 ranked tennis player at the moment. His wife Daria wore Ukrainian colours while watching him play in Acapulco yesterday.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:43:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853247
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Did you just see that? On the tele?
That tank just went straight for that car and ran it over. Driven by a little of lady.
Sounds like an angry little old lady.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:43:21
From: Michael V
ID: 1853248
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russian Daniil Medvedev is the world’s number 1 ranked tennis player at the moment. His wife Daria wore Ukrainian colours while watching him play in Acapulco yesterday.
Nice gesture. Nice.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:43:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853249
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russian Daniil Medvedev is the world’s number 1 ranked tennis player at the moment. His wife Daria wore Ukrainian colours while watching him play in Acapulco yesterday.
Lots of Russians are doing what they can.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:44:02
From: Woodie
ID: 1853250
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Did you just see that? On the tele?
That tank just went straight for that car and ran it over. Driven by a little of lady.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYBni5XDhqg
Date: 26/02/2022 19:45:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853251
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Did you just see that? On the tele?
That tank just went straight for that car and ran it over. Driven by a little of lady.
As my cousin Olga said, she’s expecting the news to vary between awful and horrific.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:46:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853252
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Woodie said:
Did you just see that? On the tele?
That tank just went straight for that car and ran it over. Driven by a little of lady.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYBni5XDhqg
Guy is ok.
:)
Car not so ok.
Date: 26/02/2022 19:51:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853253
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Frontman Svyatoslav Vakarchuk was UN’s Ambassador of Good Will, 2005.
Here he is with Мить (Moment). Ukrainians are good at sad songs.
Океан Ельзи – Мить (official video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yv61tiXUaY&list=PLSTJHXWWhQLxzMwXRyEa-FStobOgP2B8a&index=6
Write on the alien envelope
Things that you haven’t noticed in the letter.
And in a step to a courageous death
Be the same that God you knew.
Refrain:
And look how day is breaking
And how snow incredibly shines,
Don’t hurry, let it wait
One more moment…
Recall that garden near the house
Where you nurtured your dreams when was small,
And where father read you before a sleep
And you sat by the fire with him.
Refrain
Return your first love,
Let the soul ache like then.
Smile for her at last,
So it’s better, so it at least hurts less.
Refrain
Write on the simple envelope20
The things that you didn’t say in real life
And in a step to a courageous death
Be the same God you knew.
Refrain
Be patient, let it wait
One more moment…
Don’t hurry, spring’s already coming
In a moment…
Date: 26/02/2022 19:59:29
From: party_pants
ID: 1853254
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russian Daniil Medvedev is the world’s number 1 ranked tennis player at the moment. His wife Daria wore Ukrainian colours while watching him play in Acapulco yesterday.
He might not be Russian for very much longer. He might have to apply for an alternative citizenship somewhere else.
Date: 26/02/2022 20:00:42
From: Kingy
ID: 1853256
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
On flightradar, there are at least 3 KC-135 air to air refuelling planes circling just outside Ukraines western border, with at least one F-16 for protection. I wonder what they are refuelling?
Date: 26/02/2022 20:11:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853258
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Did you just see that? On the tele?
That tank just went straight for that car and ran it over. Driven by a little of lady.
Poohtin has filled his tanks with drug crazed Neo Nazis.
Date: 26/02/2022 20:17:49
From: dv
ID: 1853260
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

This is where the Republican Party is.
Date: 26/02/2022 20:21:53
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853261
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
Just don’t ask me who.
Hey, if we drew up some dodgy map that showed that big chunks of eastern Siberia and Sakhalin island had ‘always ‘traditionally’ been part of China’, and left it where President Pooh would be sure to find it…
Now there’s an idea.
:)
what you mean that country of cowards that doesn’t even have the guts to invade a never formally declared independent island they claim, preferring showboat to gunboat and chest beating to drum beating, you think they’d dare to
Date: 26/02/2022 20:28:35
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853262
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

This is where the Republican Party is.
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
wait sorry yeah someone already said that oh well
Date: 26/02/2022 20:30:12
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853263
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Russian are attacking on a broad front from all directions and I just saw a headline saying that hundreds are being evacuated from Gympie.
Date: 26/02/2022 20:35:43
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853264
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The antisemitism animating Putin’s claim to ‘denazify’ Ukraine
The Russian leader’s pretext for invasion recasts Ukraine’s Jewish president as a Nazi and Russian Christians as true victims of the Holocaust
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify
>When Russian president Vladimir Putin announced Russia’s invasion of Ukraine at dawn on Thursday, he justified the “special military operation” as having the goal to “denazify” Ukraine. The justification is not tenable, but it would be a mistake simply to dismiss it.
Vladimir Putin is himself a fascist autocrat, one who imprisons democratic opposition leaders and critics. He is the acknowledged leader of the global far right, which looks increasingly like a global fascist movement.
Ukraine does have a far-right movement, and its armed defenders include the Azov battalion, a far-right nationalist militia group. But no democratic country is free of far-right nationalist groups, including the United States. In the 2019 election, the Ukrainian far right was humiliated, receiving only 2% of the vote. This is far less support than far-right parties receive across western Europe, including inarguably democratic countries such as France and Germany.
Date: 26/02/2022 20:51:10
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853266
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/02/2022 21:18:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853268
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:

That’s gotta hurt.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:28:19
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853269
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:

This is where the Republican Party is.
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
wait sorry yeah someone already said that oh well
I doubt it.
Again.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:31:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853270
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:

This is where the Republican Party is.
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
wait sorry yeah someone already said that oh well
I doubt it.
Again.
They’ve definitely infected the Republican side of politics, as we’ve seen.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:39:07
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853271
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
SCIENCE said:
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
wait sorry yeah someone already said that oh well
I doubt it.
Again.
They’ve definitely infected the Republican side of politics, as we’ve seen.
ok.
Yes, Trumps supporters in the republican party and others, forgot all about them..
Religion messed them up as well.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:43:35
From: party_pants
ID: 1853274
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:

This is where the Republican Party is.
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
wait sorry yeah someone already said that oh well
The Trumpist side of it, yes.
.. and Brexit Britian. I have long been of the view that Brexit was a Russian plot to weaken the EU.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:44:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853275
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:

This is where the Republican Party is.
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
wait sorry yeah someone already said that oh well
The Trumpist side of it, yes.
.. and Brexit Britian. I have long been of the view that Brexit was a Russian plot to weaken the EU.
Russia was certainly in favour of Brexit but England’s fools were up to the task on their own.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:50:23
From: party_pants
ID: 1853276
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
so does anyone seriously doubt that Russia have infiltrated USSA politics all the way to the top and not only that but coinfected them with Nazi ideology in a twisted hybridisation that makes SARS-CoV-2 look like an amateur
wait sorry yeah someone already said that oh well
The Trumpist side of it, yes.
.. and Brexit Britian. I have long been of the view that Brexit was a Russian plot to weaken the EU.
Russia was certainly in favour of Brexit but England’s fools were up to the task on their own.
A combination of both. People like Farage are just useful idiots. Plenty of small-minded xenophobes to vote leave in order to stop immigration. There was Russian money and Russian interference in terms of targeted social media and disinformation. The Tories are in the pockets of Russian oligarchs, and the dirty money operators are the ones who benefit most from Brexit, being able to carry on laundering money through Swindle-on-Thames and the interconnected web of offshore tax havens like the Caymans and Channel Isles.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:52:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853277
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
The Trumpist side of it, yes.
.. and Brexit Britian. I have long been of the view that Brexit was a Russian plot to weaken the EU.
Russia was certainly in favour of Brexit but England’s fools were up to the task on their own.
A combination of both. People like Farage are just useful idiots. Plenty of small-minded xenophobes to vote leave in order to stop immigration. There was Russian money and Russian interference in terms of targeted social media and disinformation. The Tories are in the pockets of Russian oligarchs, and the dirty money operators are the ones who benefit most from Brexit, being able to carry on laundering money through Swindle-on-Thames and the interconnected web of offshore tax havens like the Caymans and Channel Isles.
Doubtless there were Russian dirty tricks involved.
Date: 26/02/2022 21:59:20
From: party_pants
ID: 1853279
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Russia was certainly in favour of Brexit but England’s fools were up to the task on their own.
A combination of both. People like Farage are just useful idiots. Plenty of small-minded xenophobes to vote leave in order to stop immigration. There was Russian money and Russian interference in terms of targeted social media and disinformation. The Tories are in the pockets of Russian oligarchs, and the dirty money operators are the ones who benefit most from Brexit, being able to carry on laundering money through Swindle-on-Thames and the interconnected web of offshore tax havens like the Caymans and Channel Isles.
Doubtless there were Russian dirty tricks involved.
There were supposed to be reports and inquiries into it, but they have all been suppressed.
Only after Johnson and his cronies get kicked out will the real story emerge.
Date: 26/02/2022 22:05:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853281
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Defence is holding out so far:
The UK has said the majority of Russian forces are about 30km (18.6 miles) from the centre of Kyiv.
In an intelligence update by the ministry of defence posted on Saturday morning, it said that Russia had yet to gain control of airspace over Russia, reducing the effectiveness of the Russian Air Force.
It added: “Russian casualties are likely to be heavy and greater than anticipated or acknowledged by the Kremlin.”
Date: 26/02/2022 22:07:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853282
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelenskiy said: “We are successfully holding back the enemies attacks. We know we are defending our land and the future of our children. Kyiv and the key areas are controlled by our army.
“The occupiers wanted to set up their puppet in our capital. They didn’t succeed. On our streets, there was a proper fight going on.
The enemy was using all its weapons, artillery, paratroops, all its weapons. They are hitting residential areas, they are trying to destroy energy infrastructure, and everyone should help us to stop this occupation.”
He said that after discussions with EU leaders in recent days, including over shutting Russia out of the Swift payments system (see 9:28), he believed Ukraine should become part of the EU and its citizens should have the same rights.
“Ukrainian people deserve to become members of the EU. And this would be a signal of your support to Ukraine. This discussion should be closed.
“We discussed this today with the European leaders. All the equipment and defence military help is coming to Ukraine and work is going on to disconnecting Russia from Swift. I hope that Hungary will be forced to support this decision.”
He asked for people who could come back to Ukraine to fight, to do so: “In every hour and place, city, and town and person … everywhere where the enemy is killing our people, our armed forces are doing everything they can to destroy the enemy.
“Those cities and town that are being attacked from the air are holding up, well done. If you can destroy the occupiers, please do. Everyone who can come back to Ukraine, please do, please come back.
“We will have a lot of work to do to rebuild our Ukraine. Everyone who can defend it abroad, do it directly in a united way. Every friend of Ukraine who wants to join Ukraine in defending the country please come over, we will give you weapons. It will be announced very shortly, how this can be done. Everyone who is defending Ukraine is a hero.”
Date: 26/02/2022 22:08:37
From: dv
ID: 1853283
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
The antisemitism animating Putin’s claim to ‘denazify’ Ukraine
The Russian leader’s pretext for invasion recasts Ukraine’s Jewish president as a Nazi and Russian Christians as true victims of the Holocaust
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify
>When Russian president Vladimir Putin announced Russia’s invasion of Ukraine at dawn on Thursday, he justified the “special military operation” as having the goal to “denazify” Ukraine. The justification is not tenable, but it would be a mistake simply to dismiss it.
Vladimir Putin is himself a fascist autocrat, one who imprisons democratic opposition leaders and critics. He is the acknowledged leader of the global far right, which looks increasingly like a global fascist movement.
Ukraine does have a far-right movement, and its armed defenders include the Azov battalion, a far-right nationalist militia group. But no democratic country is free of far-right nationalist groups, including the United States. In the 2019 election, the Ukrainian far right was humiliated, receiving only 2% of the vote. This is far less support than far-right parties receive across western Europe, including inarguably democratic countries such as France and Germany.
I was just about to post something like this
Date: 26/02/2022 22:12:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853284
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
It added: “Russian casualties are likely to be heavy and greater than anticipated or acknowledged by the Kremlin.”
like we’re no galaxy brain exKGB strategic genius but
¿ what the fuck did they think would happen, Afghanistan all over again ?
Date: 26/02/2022 22:45:21
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853290
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Could it be that Greta Thunberg and Leonardo DiCaprio actually might be to blame for what Vladimir Putin is doing?” Kirk asked on his eponymous internet show.
“That’s a take you will not hear anywhere else,” he added.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/feb/25/tucker-carlson-fox-news-russia-putin
Date: 26/02/2022 22:48:02
From: dv
ID: 1853291
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
“Could it be that Greta Thunberg and Leonardo DiCaprio actually might be to blame for what Vladimir Putin is doing?” Kirk asked on his eponymous internet show.
“That’s a take you will not hear anywhere else,” he added.
tfft
Date: 26/02/2022 23:01:19
From: furious
ID: 1853294
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
The antisemitism animating Putin’s claim to ‘denazify’ Ukraine
The Russian leader’s pretext for invasion recasts Ukraine’s Jewish president as a Nazi and Russian Christians as true victims of the Holocaust
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify
>When Russian president Vladimir Putin announced Russia’s invasion of Ukraine at dawn on Thursday, he justified the “special military operation” as having the goal to “denazify” Ukraine. The justification is not tenable, but it would be a mistake simply to dismiss it.
Vladimir Putin is himself a fascist autocrat, one who imprisons democratic opposition leaders and critics. He is the acknowledged leader of the global far right, which looks increasingly like a global fascist movement.
Ukraine does have a far-right movement, and its armed defenders include the Azov battalion, a far-right nationalist militia group. But no democratic country is free of far-right nationalist groups, including the United States. In the 2019 election, the Ukrainian far right was humiliated, receiving only 2% of the vote. This is far less support than far-right parties receive across western Europe, including inarguably democratic countries such as France and Germany.
I was just about to post something like this
“We will have a lot of work to do to rebuild our Ukraine. Everyone who can defend it abroad, do it directly in a united way. Every friend of Ukraine who wants to join Ukraine in defending the country please come over, we will give you weapons. It will be announced very shortly, how this can be done. Everyone who is defending Ukraine is a hero.”
All this, calling for anyone willing to come in and give them a gun is a sure way to increase the number of extremists in the country…
Date: 26/02/2022 23:03:33
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1853295
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
The antisemitism animating Putin’s claim to ‘denazify’ Ukraine
The Russian leader’s pretext for invasion recasts Ukraine’s Jewish president as a Nazi and Russian Christians as true victims of the Holocaust
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify
>When Russian president Vladimir Putin announced Russia’s invasion of Ukraine at dawn on Thursday, he justified the “special military operation” as having the goal to “denazify” Ukraine. The justification is not tenable, but it would be a mistake simply to dismiss it.
Vladimir Putin is himself a fascist autocrat, one who imprisons democratic opposition leaders and critics. He is the acknowledged leader of the global far right, which looks increasingly like a global fascist movement.
Ukraine does have a far-right movement, and its armed defenders include the Azov battalion, a far-right nationalist militia group. But no democratic country is free of far-right nationalist groups, including the United States. In the 2019 election, the Ukrainian far right was humiliated, receiving only 2% of the vote. This is far less support than far-right parties receive across western Europe, including inarguably democratic countries such as France and Germany.
I was just about to post something like this
It’s quite interesting who is promoting a pro-Putin position these days.
Even our mate Mandy Vanstone had an interview with a woman who was pro-Putin a couple of weeks ago (although she may well now be wishing she hadn’t).
Date: 26/02/2022 23:04:50
From: party_pants
ID: 1853296
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
All this, calling for anyone willing to come in and give them a gun is a sure way to increase the number of extremists in the country…
I think he is banking on taking the weapons back and sending them home at some point. Who doesn’t enjoy killing few Russians for sport every now and again?
Date: 26/02/2022 23:13:28
From: party_pants
ID: 1853297
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Maybe all the American gun nuts who believe in stockpiling weapons to protect freedom and liberty might be man enough to go over there and fight for it?
Date: 26/02/2022 23:18:17
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853298
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Maybe all the American gun nuts who believe in stockpiling weapons to protect freedom and liberty might be man enough to go over there and fight for it?
I’m lost for words…
Date: 26/02/2022 23:22:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853299
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
party_pants said:
Maybe all the American gun nuts who believe in stockpiling weapons to protect freedom and liberty might be man enough to go over there and fight for it?
I’m lost for words…
maybe but why not throw all the fuckwits who like to fight into a big pit and they can sort themselves out while the rest of us peaceloving cowards get on with our better lives
Date: 26/02/2022 23:43:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853304
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
“We will have a lot of work to do to rebuild our Ukraine. Everyone who can defend it abroad, do it directly in a united way. Every friend of Ukraine who wants to join Ukraine in defending the country please come over, we will give you weapons. It will be announced very shortly, how this can be done. Everyone who is defending Ukraine is a hero.”
All this, calling for anyone willing to come in and give them a gun is a sure way to increase the number of extremists in the country…
Ukraine has a huge diaspora and these are obviously desperate times.
Date: 26/02/2022 23:57:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853305
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
NATO activates response force for first time in history
NATO, for the first time in its history, is activating its NATO Response Force (NRF) in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
“We have activated NATO’s defense plans to prepare ourselves to respond to a range of contingencies and secure Alliance territory, including by drawing on our response forces,” NATO heads of state and government said in a joint statement released Friday after the alliance held a virtual summit.
“We are now making significant additional defensive deployments of forces to the eastern part of the Alliance. We will make all deployments necessary to ensure strong and credible deterrence and defense across the Alliance, now and in the future.”
more…
Date: 27/02/2022 00:07:17
From: dv
ID: 1853308
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Remember this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
Date: 27/02/2022 00:25:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853313
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Remember this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
or the 370 one but hey
if they hadn’t killed all those viral infectious diseases specialists and set in motion à chain of events leading to a devastating viral pandemic destabilising governments and providing the perfect opportunity for imperialists to
Date: 27/02/2022 00:26:30
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853314
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Remember this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
Yes.
Date: 27/02/2022 00:27:59
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853316
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian Gypsy Punk
https://imgur.com/gallery/XBM6XIN
Gogol Bordello: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert From The Archives
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJGh50t6crw
Date: 27/02/2022 00:28:15
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853317
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“No to War!” – Russian citizens marching through central Moscow yesterday
https://imgur.com/gallery/cEg9crE
Date: 27/02/2022 00:39:48
From: party_pants
ID: 1853324
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ukrainian Gypsy Punk
https://imgur.com/gallery/XBM6XIN
Gogol Bordello: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert From The Archives
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJGh50t6crw
Lol. I know them form their “Start Wearing Purple” song :)
Date: 27/02/2022 00:57:35
From: dv
ID: 1853335
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Remember this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
or the 370 one but hey
if they hadn’t killed all those viral infectious diseases specialists and set in motion à chain of events leading to a devastating viral pandemic destabilising governments and providing the perfect opportunity for imperialists to
I don’t think we can pin 370 on the Russians
Date: 27/02/2022 01:55:32
From: dv
ID: 1853343
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Polish government has set up 123 reception centres. Already over 100000 women and children have crossed the Polish border. Ukrainian between 18 and 60 are not allowed to leave.
Date: 27/02/2022 01:59:02
From: dv
ID: 1853344
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 02:11:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853346
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:14:49
From: dv
ID: 1853347
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. “ Wow, genius move! This guy was savvy.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:16:12
From: dv
ID: 1853349
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:16:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853350
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
“When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. “ Wow, genius move! This guy was savvy.
=> Israel Invades Palestine Thread
Date: 27/02/2022 02:16:18
From: party_pants
ID: 1853351
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
bit of an escalation, but having started the war Putin has no right to declare that the war will be confined to the enemy’s territory only and none to his own.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:17:27
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853352
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.
the mouse that roared.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:19:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853353
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.
some bluebird folk claiming that
- Russia miscalculated so badly that their logistics preparations are fucked,
- it’ll last about 10 days, and
- plenty of it is due to a similar adolescent rot to what screwed up the war on SARS-CoV-2 generally (something we might approximate as “poor discipline” we suppose)
Date: 27/02/2022 02:23:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853354
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.
some bluebird folk claiming that
- Russia miscalculated so badly that their logistics preparations are fucked,
- it’ll last about 10 days, and
- plenty of it is due to a similar adolescent rot to what screwed up the war on SARS-CoV-2 generally (something we might approximate as “poor discipline” we suppose)
examples
https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1497304143836454921
https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038
we make no representations as to the accuracy, judgement, competence, et cetera of these claimants
Date: 27/02/2022 02:24:19
From: dv
ID: 1853355
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.
some bluebird folk claiming that
- Russia miscalculated so badly that their logistics preparations are fucked,
- it’ll last about 10 days, and
- plenty of it is due to a similar adolescent rot to what screwed up the war on SARS-CoV-2 generally (something we might approximate as “poor discipline” we suppose)
examples
https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1497304143836454921
https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038
we make no representations as to the accuracy, judgement, competence, et cetera of these claimants
“It’ll last about 10 days”
This depends on their objectives. If they really do want to establish a new government then this will last years.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:27:35
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853357
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 02:28:35
From: dv
ID: 1853358
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

He looks like Jeremy Renner
Date: 27/02/2022 02:29:52
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853360
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

But jenny did apologise.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:31:40
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853361
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
this one seems like a bit of fun
https://twitter.com/aliostad/status/1497519061554630658
A priceless exchange of a brave Ukrainian citizen with Russian army stuck out of fuel. ENGLISH SUBTITLES.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:37:07
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853363
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
bit of an escalation, but having started the war Putin has no right to declare that the war will be confined to the enemy’s territory only and none to his own.
I just looked that up – it apparently happened a day ago. Good on ‘em. If it’s war the Ruskies want, it’s war they get.
Date: 27/02/2022 02:46:45
From: dv
ID: 1853364
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I was going to say “Well at least it’s not in the dead of winter” but apparently they are getting daily highs of 5 deg C at the Polish border
Date: 27/02/2022 02:47:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853365
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
some bluebird folk claiming that
- Russia miscalculated so badly that their logistics preparations are fucked,
- it’ll last about 10 days, and
- plenty of it is due to a similar adolescent rot to what screwed up the war on SARS-CoV-2 generally (something we might approximate as “poor discipline” we suppose)
examples
https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1497304143836454921
https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038
we make no representations as to the accuracy, judgement, competence, et cetera of these claimants
“It’ll last about 10 days”
This depends on their objectives. If they really do want to establish a new government then this will last years.
I can’t see Putin admitting defeat, and I can’t see the Ukrainians surrendering. My prediction is that while Russia may end up controlling the nation, they’ll never control the people. Ongoing hostilities and sabotage combined with several years of sanctions will eventually force Putin’s successor to finally pull out.
This won’t be over by next week.
Date: 27/02/2022 03:23:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853373
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
examples
https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1497304143836454921
https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038
we make no representations as to the accuracy, judgement, competence, et cetera of these claimants
“It’ll last about 10 days”
This depends on their objectives. If they really do want to establish a new government then this will last years.
I can’t see Putin admitting defeat, and I can’t see the Ukrainians surrendering. My prediction is that while Russia may end up controlling the nation, they’ll never control the people. Ongoing hostilities and sabotage combined with several years of sanctions will eventually force Putin’s successor to finally pull out.
This won’t be over by next week.
shrug the 5 day war lasted 12 days
Date: 27/02/2022 03:25:49
From: dv
ID: 1853374
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/26/football/poland-football-russia-ukraine-world-cup-spt-intl/index.html
Poland, Sweden refuse to play Russia in World Cup qualification playoffs after invasion of Ukraine
The Polish and Swedish national teams will not face Russia in a crucial 2022 World Cup qualification playoff matches in March in protest at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The president of Poland’s football association Cezary Kulesza announced the news on Saturday.
“No more words, time to act! Due to the escalation of the aggression of the Russian Federation towards Ukraine the Polish national team does not intend to play the play-off match against Russia,” he tweeted.
“We are in talks with (Swedish) and (Czech) federations to bring forward a joint statement to FIFA.”
Poland was due to travel to Moscow to face Russia on Thursday, March 24, while Ukraine was scheduled to travel to face Scotland on the same day.
The winner of the Poland-Russia game would host either Sweden or Czech Republic on March 29 in the final of their World Cup qualification route.
And the Swedish Football Association (SVFF) said on Saturday its board had decided that its men’s national team “will not play a possible playoff match against Russia — regardless of where the match is played.
“The Federal Board also urges FIFA to cancel the play-off matches in March in which Russia participates,” the SVFF statement added.
“We have a hard time believing that FIFA will not follow our call. Russia cannot join as long as this madness continues,” the Swedish FA said.
—-
Kind of seems like Russia will qual by default then
Date: 27/02/2022 03:49:47
From: furious
ID: 1853375
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/26/football/poland-football-russia-ukraine-world-cup-spt-intl/index.html
Poland, Sweden refuse to play Russia in World Cup qualification playoffs after invasion of Ukraine
The Polish and Swedish national teams will not face Russia in a crucial 2022 World Cup qualification playoff matches in March in protest at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The president of Poland’s football association Cezary Kulesza announced the news on Saturday.
“No more words, time to act! Due to the escalation of the aggression of the Russian Federation towards Ukraine the Polish national team does not intend to play the play-off match against Russia,” he tweeted.
“We are in talks with (Swedish) and (Czech) federations to bring forward a joint statement to FIFA.”
Poland was due to travel to Moscow to face Russia on Thursday, March 24, while Ukraine was scheduled to travel to face Scotland on the same day.
The winner of the Poland-Russia game would host either Sweden or Czech Republic on March 29 in the final of their World Cup qualification route.
And the Swedish Football Association (SVFF) said on Saturday its board had decided that its men’s national team “will not play a possible playoff match against Russia — regardless of where the match is played.
“The Federal Board also urges FIFA to cancel the play-off matches in March in which Russia participates,” the SVFF statement added.
“We have a hard time believing that FIFA will not follow our call. Russia cannot join as long as this madness continues,” the Swedish FA said.
—-
Kind of seems like Russia will qual by default then
Unless FIFA grows some…


Date: 27/02/2022 04:11:26
From: dv
ID: 1853376
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 06:11:25
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853377
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Finally, Big problems for Russia
The Ukrainian state is delivering more than 3,000 deceased Russian soldiers to the International Committee of the Red Cross (IFRC) for identification. The Red Cross examines the identity of the deceased and searches for a relatives. No more hidden graves and lies!
https://fb.watch/bpZ968uKaZ/
Russia is suffering from heavy losses, while the propaganda media in Russia is still reporting 0 casualties
Date: 27/02/2022 06:16:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853378
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Germany finally making themselves useful:
Germany to send anti-tank weapons and missiles
Germany will send 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 stinger missiles to Ukraine, the German chancellor said on Saturday.
Olaf Scholz said the Russian invasion marked a “turning point”, and added: “It is our duty to do our best to help Ukraine defend against the invading army of Putin.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/26/russia-ukraine-latest-news-fighting-kyiv-zelenskiy-assault-putin-capital
Date: 27/02/2022 06:22:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853379
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 06:32:59
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853380
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 06:33:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853381
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 06:39:50
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853383
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Convoy with ammunition from Poland reaches Ukraine
A convoy with ammunition from Poland has arrived in Ukraine, the Polish minister of defense has announced.
Mariusz Błaszczak wrote on Twitter on Friday that “Poland supports and is in solidarity with the Ukrainian people,” as he announced that a convoy with ammunition had reached that country.
“Poland firmly opposes the Russian aggression,” he added.
more…
Date: 27/02/2022 07:00:00
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853384
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 07:53:29
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853387
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Lithuania closes its airspace to Russian airlines, ending direct flights to Kaliningrad exclave
By Andrius Sytas 3 hrs ago
Comments
By Andrius Sytas
Lithuania will ban Russian airlines from using its airspace from 2200
GMT on Saturday, the government said, joining other European countries which have taken the same step following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Lithuania is the shortest route from mainland Russia to its Kaliningrad exclave, sandwiched between NATO members Lithuania and Poland on the Baltic Sea’s eastern coast. The ban would force Russian flights to take a longer detour via the Baltic Sea.
“No flights for aggressor planes in the freedom sky,” Lithuanian Prime Minister Ingrida Simonyte tweeted after a government meeting.
Russian forces pounded Ukrainian cities with artillery and cruise missiles on Saturday for a third day running.
Russia and Belarus carry out joint drills near the Ukrainian border
Lithuania’s northern neighbour Latvia has also decided to close its airspace for Russian aircraft from midnight to Sunday local time (2200 GMT), the country’s foreign minister Edgars Rinkevics said on Twitter.
The third Baltic state, Estonia, is expected to do the same, its minister of economic affairs said on Saturday.
The moves follow similar closures of airspace of the UK, Poland, Bulgaria, Czech Republic and Romania to Russia’s aircraft. Russia has retaliated by banning airlines of these countries from flying on its territory.
An Aeroflot flight from Moscow to Kaliningrad on Saturday used Belarus and Lithuanian airspace, according to Flightradar24 tracking website. A Rossiya airline flight from Kaliningrad to St Petersburg flew over all three Baltic states, the website showed.
Date: 27/02/2022 08:38:50
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853397
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian losses so far:

Date: 27/02/2022 08:53:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853398
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 09:02:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1853399
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russian losses so far:

That’s quite substantial. I wonder about its accuracy.
Date: 27/02/2022 09:16:23
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853402
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Now Russia threatens Finland and Sweden with ‘military consequences’ over Nato
Vladimir Putin turned his attention to Sweden and Finland as the Ukraine crisis shows no signs of slowing
Russia has issued an ominous warning to Sweden and Finland should they decide to join NATO.
It said the countries will face ‘serious military and political repercussions’ if it became a member of the defensive alliance.
After weeks of denying plans to invade Ukraine while amassing as many as 190,000 troops on its border, Russia demanded legal guarantees that the nation is never allowed to join NATO.
It argued the alliance has expanded too far eastwards and poses a threat to national security, but Ukraine was not immediately close to joining.
For the latest updates on the Russia-Ukraine war, visit our live blog: Russia-Ukraine live
While Russia has blamed the pact for current tensions, others have pointed to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s longstanding obsession with returning Ukraine to Moscow’s fold.
Still the Kremlin is keen for NATO not to expand further, as Russia appeared to turn its attention to Sweden and Finland.
Foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said the two nations ‘should not base their security on damaging the security of other countries’.
She added: ‘Their accession to NATO can have detrimental consequences and face some military and political consequences.’
Later reiterating the threat on Twitter, Russia’s foreign ministry said: ‘We regard the Finnish government’s commitment to a military non-alignment policy as an important factor in ensuring security and stability in northern Europe,’
It comes after US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken said Vladimir Putin may push further into Eastern Europe if he manages to take over Ukraine.
It came as satellite images showed Russian troops and artillery building up along Belarus’ border with Poland.
Blinken said ‘you don’t need intelligence’ to see that Putin has ambitious beyond Ukraine, adding that ‘he’s made it clear that he’d like to reconstitute the Soviet empire’.
A Ukrainian soldier shows a grenade as he stands by burning military trucks in the streets of Kyiv
There are fears Vladimir Putin may want to push further into Eastern Europe after taking over Ukraine
Failing that, he’d like to bring former Soviet bloc countries back under Russia’s sphere of influence, or at least make them become neutral by cutting ties with the West, the top diplomat added.
But Blinken said an attack on NATO members, such as Poland, Slovakia, Hungary or Romania, would be considered an attack on all members, which is the ‘most powerful deterrent’ against Putin stretching beyond Ukraine.
While never ruling it out, Finland and Sweden have never been in a rush to join the alliance, having generally maintained a tradition of military neutrality.
But ironically Russia’s aggression is likely to reignite a debate within the two countries over their potential NATO membership and could push them to join.
Biden met virtually with NATO countries yesterday morning to reassure eastern members they will be protected as Russian troops prepared to enter Kyiv.
After the meeting, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said the 30-nation organisation will send parts of its response force and spearhead unit to the alliance’s eastern flanks. This is the first time the force has been used to defend its own allies.
Fierce fighting has broken out in Kyiv as Russian forces descend on Ukraine’s capital city.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has called for the Ukrainian army to overthrow the democratically-elected government in a chilling TV address.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson described the conflict as a ‘catastrophe for our continent’, and imposed a fresh sanctions package that personally targets Putin.
However, the President has shown no signs of de-escalating anytime soon.
Putin ‘has sights beyond Ukraine’ as Russian forces amass on Polish border
Live interactive map shows where Russia is attacking Ukraine
How many nuclear weapons does Russia have and how does it compare to US?
Man who fled Ukraine on foot says conscripts are dragged from families
Russian platoon ‘surrenders saying they didn’t think they had been sent to kill’
Maps reveal how much of London would be vapourised in a nuclear attack
Why do Russian tanks have a ‘Z’ symbol on them?
Follow Metro.co.uk’s live blog for rolling coverage of conflict as it happens.
Date: 27/02/2022 09:19:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853405
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian losses so far:

That’s quite substantial. I wonder about its accuracy.
I don’t know. But it’s interesting that there are no figures for trucks.
We know from videos that some very long columns of Russian trucks have been destroyed. Maybe they’ve been included in “armoured vehicles”.
Date: 27/02/2022 09:26:41
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853411
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian losses so far:

That’s quite substantial. I wonder about its accuracy.
An earlier post suggests that they may not be inaccurate:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Finally, Big problems for Russia
The Ukrainian state is delivering more than 3,000 deceased Russian soldiers to the International Committee of the Red Cross (IFRC) for identification. The Red Cross examines the identity of the deceased and searches for a relatives. No more hidden graves and lies!
https://fb.watch/bpZ968uKaZ/
Russia is suffering from heavy losses, while the propaganda media in Russia is still reporting 0 casualties
Date: 27/02/2022 09:29:12
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853412
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Someone asked what Boeing KC-135 tanker planes would be doing circling around just outside of Ukraine.
I was going to reply then, but was called away.
My guess is that they were there to service RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft . There’s a whole family of those planes (RC-135 V/W/U) which operate under the programme name ‘Rivet Joint’, and which are frequently operating at the eastern edge of Europe and around the Kaliningrad enclave on the Baltic.
They could also be refuelling Boeing E-3 Air Warning And Control (AWACS) planes, which are operated by the US, France, and by the RAF under the NATO banner.
There’s also the Northrop Grumman E-8 Joint STARS, based on a 707/C-135 which are airborne ground surveillance, battle management and command and control aircraft.
Any or all of these could be providing assistance to Ukraine on the quiet, but they’d certainly be relaying info to NATO.
It’s unlikely that they’d be making themselves terribly visible with ADS-B or similar, or they might be using fake transponder i.d.s so that they look like something else.
Date: 27/02/2022 09:31:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853414
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A few suggestions here
https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/russian-military-equipment-white-markings/
- “Bottom line is the ‘Z’ markings (and others like it) are a deconfliction measure to help prevent fratricide, or friendly fire incidents,” said Air Force Lt. Col. Tyson Wetzel,
- former Marine Capt. Rob Lee noted that different versions of the markings have appeared in pictures, including the “Z” in a square, circle, or triangle — and some vehicles are marked solely with a triangle. Now that the invasion is underway, these different types of markings should allow Russian road guards directing traffic to make sure that a unit’s vehicles and equipment all go to the right place.
Date: 27/02/2022 09:55:05
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853416
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.

and this…
Date: 27/02/2022 10:11:59
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853418
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
It’s unlikely that they’d be making themselves terribly visible with ADS-B or similar, or they might be using fake transponder i.d.s so that they look like something else.
I have been noticing obviously fake transponder IDs over Poland doing strange things.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:13:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853419
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian losses so far:

That’s quite substantial. I wonder about its accuracy.
I don’t know. But it’s interesting that there are no figures for trucks.
We know from videos that some very long columns of Russian trucks have been destroyed. Maybe they’ve been included in “armoured vehicles”.
The Ukranian losses? A couple of hundred so far?
Date: 27/02/2022 10:19:29
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853422
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russian losses so far:

Dunno, but whoever drew up that list is calling field artillery cannons,
So probably a journalist plucking stuff out of the air.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:21:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853423
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian losses so far:

Dunno, but whoever drew up that list is calling field artillery cannons,
So probably a journalist plucking stuff out of the air.
Data supplied by Ukrainian Defence Ministry.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:24:34
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853424
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
That’s quite substantial. I wonder about its accuracy.
I don’t know. But it’s interesting that there are no figures for trucks.
We know from videos that some very long columns of Russian trucks have been destroyed. Maybe they’ve been included in “armoured vehicles”.
The Ukranian losses? A couple of hundred so far?
They’re claiming about 200 people including civilians.
That seems unlikely and there are no figures for Ukrainian equipment losses.
But regardless, they’re definitely holding out for now.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:24:56
From: Tamb
ID: 1853425
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian losses so far:

Dunno, but whoever drew up that list is calling field artillery cannons,
So probably a journalist plucking stuff out of the air.
Data supplied by Ukrainian Defence Ministry.
Possibly suffered in the translation.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:28:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853427
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
But regardless, they’re definitely holding out for now.
Sure isn’t the walkover that Vlad was probably expecting.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:30:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853428
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
Prime Minister Boris Johnson described the conflict as a ‘catastrophe for our continent’, and imposed a fresh sanctions package that personally targets Putin.
Speaking of ambition and ownership claims…
Date: 27/02/2022 10:33:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853430
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
But regardless, they’re definitely holding out for now.
Sure isn’t the walkover that Vlad was probably expecting.
what if it’s actually true that the Russian soldiers were told not to kill people, and really have been trying to sit tight, while Ukrainian defence understandably haven’t been as restrained
Date: 27/02/2022 10:37:04
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853431
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
what if it’s actually true that the Russian soldiers were told not to kill people…
No-one seems to have told their rocket forces that.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:42:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853436
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
SCIENCE said:

But jenny did apologise.
Only because her husband wouldn’t because it was her fault he basically said.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:42:54
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853437
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
what if it’s actually true that the Russian soldiers were told not to kill people…
No-one seems to have told their rocket forces that.
fair point though there’s less moral injury involved if you claim to be targeting installations
we mean if actual Ukrainian casualties seem unexpectedly low, and captured Russians say they weren’t there to murder anyone, and it all seems a bit underprepared
is it a better explanation that the Russian military are incompetent and inexperienced
(it might be, but we’ven’t recently been part of them and a we’ven’t recently fought against them so don’t ask us)
Date: 27/02/2022 10:46:19
From: Michael V
ID: 1853441
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine have destroyed a number of Russian aircraft at Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles.
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:47:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853444
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
Let us pray that they all die there.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:48:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853446
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 10:49:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853449
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
The Russians will be glad to have them.
Someone has to go out in front and find out where the mines are laid.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:49:35
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853451
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
Let us pray that they all die there.
remember how we arrested all the good jihadi Australians looking to join the Islamic Freedom Forces back when Syria and all that fun
Date: 27/02/2022 10:50:55
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853453
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy (Ukrainian: Володимир Олександрович Зеленський, pronounced ; born 25 January 1978) is a Ukrainian politician, former actor and comedian who has been serving as the president of Ukraine since 2019.
Zelenskyy grew up in Kryvyi Rih, a Russian-speaking region in southeastern Ukraine. Prior to his acting career, Zelenskyy obtained a degree in law from the Kyiv National Economic University. He then pursued comedy and created the production company Kvartal 95, which produces films, cartoons, and TV shows including Servant of the People, in which Zelenskyy played the role of president of Ukraine. The series aired from 2015 to 2019 and was immensely popular. A political party bearing the same name as the television show was created in March 2018 by employees of Kvartal 95.
Zelenskyy announced his candidacy for the 2019 Ukrainian presidential election on the evening of 31 December 2018, alongside the New Year’s Eve address of President Petro Poroshenko on 1+1 TV Channel. A political outsider, he had already become one of the frontrunners in opinion polls for the election. He won the election with 73.2 per cent of the vote in the second round, defeating Poroshenko. Identifying as a populist, he has positioned himself as an anti-establishment, anti-corruption figure.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:53:26
From: Michael V
ID: 1853456
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
The Russians will be glad to have them.
Someone has to go out in front and find out where the mines are laid.
That would put them to a good use.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:53:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853457
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 10:54:02
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853458
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

No April Sun in Hawaii for that dude.
Date: 27/02/2022 10:55:53
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853460
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I tell you what…
…if Ukraine comes through this, and its request for membership comes up at a NATO meeting, it’s going to be ‘shit, yeah!’.
Date: 27/02/2022 11:00:24
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1853464
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
But is it genuine?
Date: 27/02/2022 11:03:21
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853468
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
But is it genuine?
Patricia Karvelas
@PatsKarvelas
AFP aware of the Proud Boys Poland move. Border alerts are in place for potential members travelling. AFP encourging individuals not to go. So far none of the individuals of interest identified boarded a flight. #ProudBoys #Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 11:03:24
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853469
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
But is it genuine?
Good grief man what the hell are you thinking?
Date: 27/02/2022 11:04:15
From: Woodie
ID: 1853472
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
But is it genuine?
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
Date: 27/02/2022 11:05:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853474
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
Gosh. Idiots.
But is it genuine?
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
we believe everything all the time
Date: 27/02/2022 11:06:20
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853475
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

well that’s one form of birth control
Date: 27/02/2022 11:11:49
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1853477
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
Gosh. Idiots.
But is it genuine?
Patricia Karvelas
@PatsKarvelas
AFP aware of the Proud Boys Poland move. Border alerts are in place for potential members travelling. AFP encourging individuals not to go. So far none of the individuals of interest identified boarded a flight. #ProudBoys #Ukraine
Thanks Judge and Patricia.
All my research came up with was:
no-the-proud-boys-are-not-white-supremacists
(which even if it is true, doesn’t mean they aren’t Putinists of course)
Date: 27/02/2022 11:12:36
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853478
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Woodie said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
But is it genuine?
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
we believe everything all the time
Well … I don’t believe that science is your real name ….
Date: 27/02/2022 11:14:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853480
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
JudgeMental said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
But is it genuine?
Patricia Karvelas
@PatsKarvelas
AFP aware of the Proud Boys Poland move. Border alerts are in place for potential members travelling. AFP encourging individuals not to go. So far none of the individuals of interest identified boarded a flight. #ProudBoys #Ukraine
Thanks Judge and Patricia.
All my research came up with was:
no-the-proud-boys-are-not-white-supremacists
(which even if it is true, doesn’t mean they aren’t Putinists arseholes of course)
Corrected.
Date: 27/02/2022 11:17:25
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853481
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
JudgeMental said:
Patricia Karvelas
@PatsKarvelas
AFP aware of the Proud Boys Poland move. Border alerts are in place for potential members travelling. AFP encourging individuals not to go. So far none of the individuals of interest identified boarded a flight. #ProudBoys #Ukraine
Thanks Judge and Patricia.
All my research came up with was:
no-the-proud-boys-are-not-white-supremacists
(which even if it is true, doesn’t mean they aren’t Putinists arseholes of course)
Corrected.
and they are proud of it.
Date: 27/02/2022 11:23:17
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1853486
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
North Korea fires missile towards the Sea of Japan
54 mins ago
North Korea has fired an unidentified projectile eastward towards the Sea of Japan, according to South Korea’s military.
The launch came after North Korea conducted seven rounds of missile tests, including the launch of an intermediate-range ballistic missile launch on January 30.
Sunday morning’s launch would be the Kim Jong-un regime’s eighth show of force this year.
This picture released from North Korea’s official Korean Central News Agency last month shows a firing drill of railway-borne missile regiment is held in North Pyongan Province
Last month, North Korea said that it was lifting its yearslong self-imposed moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests suggesting it could engage in further provocative actions down the road.
The continued saber-rattling from Pyongyang comes amid a deadlock in nuclear talks with Washington.
Sunday’s launch comes a month after North Korea fired a Hwasong-12 intermediate range ballistic missile, the largest weapon fired since 2017, in a test that capped a record month of mostly short-range missile launches in January.
Amid stalled denuclearization talks with the United States, North Korea has suggested it could resume testing its longer range missiles or even nuclear weapons.
Date: 27/02/2022 11:59:32
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853518
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
North Korea fires missile towards the Sea of Japan
54 mins ago
North Korea has fired an unidentified projectile eastward towards the Sea of Japan, according to South Korea’s military.
The launch came after North Korea conducted seven rounds of missile tests, including the launch of an intermediate-range ballistic missile launch on January 30.
Sunday morning’s launch would be the Kim Jong-un regime’s eighth show of force this year.
This picture released from North Korea’s official Korean Central News Agency last month shows a firing drill of railway-borne missile regiment is held in North Pyongan Province
Last month, North Korea said that it was lifting its yearslong self-imposed moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests suggesting it could engage in further provocative actions down the road.
The continued saber-rattling from Pyongyang comes amid a deadlock in nuclear talks with Washington.
Sunday’s launch comes a month after North Korea fired a Hwasong-12 intermediate range ballistic missile, the largest weapon fired since 2017, in a test that capped a record month of mostly short-range missile launches in January.
Amid stalled denuclearization talks with the United States, North Korea has suggested it could resume testing its longer range missiles or even nuclear weapons.
Ahh, dont worry, a general was tied onto it.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:01:03
From: Tamb
ID: 1853519
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
monkey skipper said:
North Korea fires missile towards the Sea of Japan
54 mins ago
North Korea has fired an unidentified projectile eastward towards the Sea of Japan, according to South Korea’s military.
The launch came after North Korea conducted seven rounds of missile tests, including the launch of an intermediate-range ballistic missile launch on January 30.
Sunday morning’s launch would be the Kim Jong-un regime’s eighth show of force this year.
This picture released from North Korea’s official Korean Central News Agency last month shows a firing drill of railway-borne missile regiment is held in North Pyongan Province
Last month, North Korea said that it was lifting its yearslong self-imposed moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests suggesting it could engage in further provocative actions down the road.
The continued saber-rattling from Pyongyang comes amid a deadlock in nuclear talks with Washington.
Sunday’s launch comes a month after North Korea fired a Hwasong-12 intermediate range ballistic missile, the largest weapon fired since 2017, in a test that capped a record month of mostly short-range missile launches in January.
Amid stalled denuclearization talks with the United States, North Korea has suggested it could resume testing its longer range missiles or even nuclear weapons.
Ahh, dont worry, a general was tied onto it.
Couldn’t be a NK general. All the medals would overload the missile.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:06:39
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853521
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
monkey skipper said:
North Korea fires missile towards the Sea of Japan
54 mins ago
North Korea has fired an unidentified projectile eastward towards the Sea of Japan, according to South Korea’s military.
The launch came after North Korea conducted seven rounds of missile tests, including the launch of an intermediate-range ballistic missile launch on January 30.
Sunday morning’s launch would be the Kim Jong-un regime’s eighth show of force this year.
This picture released from North Korea’s official Korean Central News Agency last month shows a firing drill of railway-borne missile regiment is held in North Pyongan Province
Last month, North Korea said that it was lifting its yearslong self-imposed moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests suggesting it could engage in further provocative actions down the road.
The continued saber-rattling from Pyongyang comes amid a deadlock in nuclear talks with Washington.
Sunday’s launch comes a month after North Korea fired a Hwasong-12 intermediate range ballistic missile, the largest weapon fired since 2017, in a test that capped a record month of mostly short-range missile launches in January.
Amid stalled denuclearization talks with the United States, North Korea has suggested it could resume testing its longer range missiles or even nuclear weapons.
Ahh, dont worry, a general was tied onto it.
Couldn’t be a NK general. All the medals would overload the missile.
:)
Date: 27/02/2022 12:09:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853524
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ahh, dont worry, a general was tied onto it.
Couldn’t be a NK general. All the medals would overload the missile.

There must be a whole department of people who do nothing but sit around dreaming up new Orders and Legions and whatnot to give these blokes medals for.
‘What’s that, General, you managed to thread a needle all by yourself? Terrific, here have a medal!’
Date: 27/02/2022 12:12:20
From: party_pants
ID: 1853525
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ahh, dont worry, a general was tied onto it.
Couldn’t be a NK general. All the medals would overload the missile.

There must be a whole department of people who do nothing but sit around dreaming up new Orders and Legions and whatnot to give these blokes medals for.
‘What’s that, General, you managed to thread a needle all by yourself? Terrific, here have a medal!’
the manual for which order to wear them must run to a hundred pages.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:13:48
From: Tamb
ID: 1853526
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ahh, dont worry, a general was tied onto it.
Couldn’t be a NK general. All the medals would overload the missile.

There must be a whole department of people who do nothing but sit around dreaming up new Orders and Legions and whatnot to give these blokes medals for.
‘What’s that, General, you managed to thread a needle all by yourself? Terrific, here have a medal!’
Not dead yet. Here, have an annual survival medal.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:17:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853527
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
Couldn’t be a NK general. All the medals would overload the missile.

There must be a whole department of people who do nothing but sit around dreaming up new Orders and Legions and whatnot to give these blokes medals for.
‘What’s that, General, you managed to thread a needle all by yourself? Terrific, here have a medal!’
Not dead yet. Here, have an annual survival medal.
Pretty soon, they’re going to have to hire people to walk around behind them wearing their spare uniform with all the ‘overflow’ medals on it.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:18:13
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853528
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 12:19:06
From: dv
ID: 1853530
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1497153805909209088?s=20&t=a6z69o6cTxvO-r7CH4Lq1w
Russia Today crediting Nigel Farage for laying blame on the West.
So rude that they didn’t thank Moll but I suppose airtime is limited.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:19:47
From: Tamb
ID: 1853531
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:

There must be a whole department of people who do nothing but sit around dreaming up new Orders and Legions and whatnot to give these blokes medals for.
‘What’s that, General, you managed to thread a needle all by yourself? Terrific, here have a medal!’
Not dead yet. Here, have an annual survival medal.
Pretty soon, they’re going to have to hire people to walk around behind them wearing their spare uniform with all the ‘overflow’ medals on it.
Not yet. They’ve still got 1½ legs to spare.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:20:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853533
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

oooh…
Date: 27/02/2022 12:24:05
From: dv
ID: 1853537
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
Gosh. Idiots.
But is it genuine?
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
It’s genuinely on their Twitter page. Is this a satirical Twitter account? Doesn’t seem like it. The other items are straight.

Date: 27/02/2022 12:26:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853540
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian banks cut off from SWIFT.
Take that oligarchs!
Date: 27/02/2022 12:26:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853542
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Woodie said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
But is it genuine?
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
It’s genuinely on their Twitter page. Is this a satirical Twitter account? Doesn’t seem like it. The other items are straight.

do even idiots sometimes engage in disinformation
Date: 27/02/2022 12:27:07
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853543
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Woodie said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
But is it genuine?
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
It’s genuinely on their Twitter page. Is this a satirical Twitter account? Doesn’t seem like it. The other items are straight.

I hate southern Tablelands Proud Boys.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:27:12
From: party_pants
ID: 1853544
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1497153805909209088?s=20&t=a6z69o6cTxvO-r7CH4Lq1w
Russia Today crediting Nigel Farage for laying blame on the West.
So rude that they didn’t thank Moll but I suppose airtime is limited.
Farage is a paid Russian agent.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:29:39
From: party_pants
ID: 1853551
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian banks cut off from SWIFT.
Take that oligarchs!
About fucking time.
Now they all needed to be interned and all their assets confiscated.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:31:05
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853554
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
dv said:
Woodie said:
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
It’s genuinely on their Twitter page. Is this a satirical Twitter account? Doesn’t seem like it. The other items are straight.

I hate southern Tablelands Proud Boys.

Date: 27/02/2022 12:33:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853557
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy latest speech. Approx 5 mins. English subtitles.
https://imgur.com/gallery/HJ8LOoS
Date: 27/02/2022 12:33:30
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1853558
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:36:39
From: dv
ID: 1853562
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1497153805909209088?s=20&t=a6z69o6cTxvO-r7CH4Lq1w
Russia Today crediting Nigel Farage for laying blame on the West.
So rude that they didn’t thank Moll but I suppose airtime is limited.
Farage is a paid Russian agent.
Man I hope he got paid in advance because transactions will be tricky now
Date: 27/02/2022 12:37:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853563
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1497153805909209088?s=20&t=a6z69o6cTxvO-r7CH4Lq1w
Russia Today crediting Nigel Farage for laying blame on the West.
So rude that they didn’t thank Moll but I suppose airtime is limited.
Farage is a paid Russian agent.
Man I hope he got paid in advance because transactions will be tricky now
I hope they pay him in euros.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:42:02
From: Tamb
ID: 1853566
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
party_pants said:
Farage is a paid Russian agent.
Man I hope he got paid in advance because transactions will be tricky now
I hope they pay him in euros.
Or Roubles.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:50:38
From: party_pants
ID: 1853570
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
party_pants said:
Farage is a paid Russian agent.
Man I hope he got paid in advance because transactions will be tricky now
I hope they pay him in euros.
lol :)
it probably doesn’t matter to him either way, he is such a sell-out.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:52:50
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1853573
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
So, no predictions. No one cares?
Date: 27/02/2022 12:53:03
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853574
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:54:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853577
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
Yeah, so far, there’s nothing to suggest that the Russians won’t stop at the Polish border.
If they don’t, well, that’s another story altogether.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:55:32
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853578
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
So, no predictions. No one cares?
I can’t see 100,000 casualties for either Russia or Ukraine.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:56:28
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1853579
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
Whew, that’s a relief. It could have included Australia.
Well, it’s certainly no blitzkrieg.

Date: 27/02/2022 12:56:29
From: buffy
ID: 1853580
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
Yeah, so far, there’s nothing to suggest that the Russians won’t stop at the Polish border.
If they don’t, well, that’s another story altogether.
If they are already running out of fuel, ammunition and food, as reported, they won’t get far.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:58:33
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853582
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
Yeah, so far, there’s nothing to suggest that the Russians won’t stop at the Polish border.
If they don’t, well, that’s another story altogether.
I think they will have their hands too full with the Ukraine to continue.
Date: 27/02/2022 12:59:26
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853583
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
If they are already running out of fuel, ammunition and food, as reported, they won’t get far.
Ach, again, zer alt Wehrmacht could haff told zem all about zat.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:02:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853584
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
If they are already running out of fuel, ammunition and food, as reported, they won’t get far.
Maybe the can get the Proud Boys to bring a few bullets with them.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:05:21
From: party_pants
ID: 1853585
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
At best, other nations might send fighter aircraft to enforce Ukranian control of their own airspace.
A few squadrons of F-35 could have a big impact on clearing the skies of the Russian air forces. If that happens then their troops on the ground will have to fight on with no air cover. The Ukranian air forces can do the actual bombing of Russian tanks and troops on the ground.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:12:58
From: transition
ID: 1853586
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
what if it’s actually true that the Russian soldiers were told not to kill people…
No-one seems to have told their rocket forces that.
fair point though there’s less moral injury involved if you claim to be targeting installations
we mean if actual Ukrainian casualties seem unexpectedly low, and captured Russians say they weren’t there to murder anyone, and it all seems a bit underprepared
is it a better explanation that the Russian military are incompetent and inexperienced
(it might be, but we’ven’t recently been part of them and a we’ven’t recently fought against them so don’t ask us)
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
Date: 27/02/2022 13:13:59
From: Woodie
ID: 1853587
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Maybe the can get the Proud Boys to bring a few bullets with them.
Thems runnin’ amok doing a good round of wee glasgee kisses orta sort them Ruskies.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:16:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853588
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Woodie said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
But is it genuine?
You lot ‘d believe anything, sometimes……………….. Sometimes?????🙄🤯
It’s genuinely on their Twitter page. Is this a satirical Twitter account? Doesn’t seem like it. The other items are straight.

Haven’t they been banned?
Date: 27/02/2022 13:18:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853590
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
captain_spalding said:
Maybe the can get the Proud Boys to bring a few bullets with them.
Thems runnin’ amok doing a good round of wee glasgee kisses orta sort them Ruskies.
Oh,my mistake, when they said they were going to fight for Vlad, i got my Vlads mixed up.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:20:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853591
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
Well, like i said, if Ukraine comes through this, it’s going to be just about impossible to stop them joining NATO.
Bit of a dud decision by Mr Putin if that’s the case.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:20:44
From: furious
ID: 1853592
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
No-one seems to have told their rocket forces that.
fair point though there’s less moral injury involved if you claim to be targeting installations
we mean if actual Ukrainian casualties seem unexpectedly low, and captured Russians say they weren’t there to murder anyone, and it all seems a bit underprepared
is it a better explanation that the Russian military are incompetent and inexperienced
(it might be, but we’ven’t recently been part of them and a we’ven’t recently fought against them so don’t ask us)
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
I’m sorry, but, that’s idiotic…
Date: 27/02/2022 13:23:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853593
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
mollwollfumble said:
Any predictions yet on how bad this is going to get?
On a scale of 1 to 10
How many countries are going to be catastrophically affected?
By catastrophically, I mean death toll in excess of 100,000 people.
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
Yeah, so far, there’s nothing to suggest that the Russians won’t stop at the Polish border.
If they don’t, well, that’s another story altogether.
Poo tin (shit can) has already made threatening noises to Sweden and Finland.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:24:25
From: party_pants
ID: 1853594
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
No-one seems to have told their rocket forces that.
fair point though there’s less moral injury involved if you claim to be targeting installations
we mean if actual Ukrainian casualties seem unexpectedly low, and captured Russians say they weren’t there to murder anyone, and it all seems a bit underprepared
is it a better explanation that the Russian military are incompetent and inexperienced
(it might be, but we’ven’t recently been part of them and a we’ven’t recently fought against them so don’t ask us)
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
It is an invasion.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:24:53
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853595
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
transition said:
SCIENCE said:
fair point though there’s less moral injury involved if you claim to be targeting installations
we mean if actual Ukrainian casualties seem unexpectedly low, and captured Russians say they weren’t there to murder anyone, and it all seems a bit underprepared
is it a better explanation that the Russian military are incompetent and inexperienced
(it might be, but we’ven’t recently been part of them and a we’ven’t recently fought against them so don’t ask us)
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
I’m sorry, but, that’s idiotic…
I’d go further and say fucking idiotic.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:26:01
From: party_pants
ID: 1853596
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
Two.
Russia and Ukraine. No other country will put boots on the ground.
Yeah, so far, there’s nothing to suggest that the Russians won’t stop at the Polish border.
If they don’t, well, that’s another story altogether.
Poo tin (shit can) has already made threatening noises to Sweden and Finland.
They will end up joining NATO soon enough.
Operation Backfire..
Date: 27/02/2022 13:30:47
From: transition
ID: 1853598
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
transition said:
SCIENCE said:
fair point though there’s less moral injury involved if you claim to be targeting installations
we mean if actual Ukrainian casualties seem unexpectedly low, and captured Russians say they weren’t there to murder anyone, and it all seems a bit underprepared
is it a better explanation that the Russian military are incompetent and inexperienced
(it might be, but we’ven’t recently been part of them and a we’ven’t recently fought against them so don’t ask us)
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
I’m sorry, but, that’s idiotic…
I know, I didn’t do it, not my doing
Date: 27/02/2022 13:32:19
From: transition
ID: 1853599
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
transition said:
SCIENCE said:
fair point though there’s less moral injury involved if you claim to be targeting installations
we mean if actual Ukrainian casualties seem unexpectedly low, and captured Russians say they weren’t there to murder anyone, and it all seems a bit underprepared
is it a better explanation that the Russian military are incompetent and inexperienced
(it might be, but we’ven’t recently been part of them and a we’ven’t recently fought against them so don’t ask us)
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
It is an invasion.
I didn’t say it wasn’t, all I suggested was put the squeeze on better explains it
Date: 27/02/2022 13:33:03
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853600
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
6Ukrainian government ask people to help in disorienting the Russian army.
Sign reads – ⬆️ go fuck yourself. ⬅️ go fuck yourself again ➡️ go fuck yourself in Russia

Date: 27/02/2022 13:34:21
From: furious
ID: 1853601
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
party_pants said:
transition said:
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
It is an invasion.
I didn’t say it wasn’t, all I suggested was put the squeeze on better explains it
No, “it’s an invasion” explains it just fine…
Date: 27/02/2022 13:38:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853602
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
transition said:
party_pants said:
It is an invasion.
I didn’t say it wasn’t, all I suggested was put the squeeze on better explains it
No, “it’s an invasion” explains it just fine…
Shit can tried putting the squeeze on. Then he invaded.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:39:41
From: transition
ID: 1853604
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
transition said:
party_pants said:
It is an invasion.
I didn’t say it wasn’t, all I suggested was put the squeeze on better explains it
No, “it’s an invasion” explains it just fine…
yes, sure, but take it in context of what SCIENCE said, and what I was responding to, that was the exchange
Date: 27/02/2022 13:41:06
From: dv
ID: 1853605
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It is reported that approximately 50% of the Russian forces that had amassed on the border have now moved into Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 13:41:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853606
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Apprehension was felt even in Canberra, where the ABC spoke with several Russian nationals who asked not to be identified.
Each said that almost all Russians were horrified by the invasion.
The archpriest of Canberra’s Russian Orthodox Church, Alexander Morozov, said the local community was in shock.
“It is an invasion, however you look at it,” Father Morozov said.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:49:36
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853607
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
There was an article i read which asked how well it’s worked out for Ukraine with them having elected a comedian to head their country’s government.
He’s doing a lot better than the clown we have at the head of our government.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:51:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853608
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
There was an article i read which asked how well it’s worked out for Ukraine with them having elected a comedian to head their country’s government.
He’s doing a lot better than the clown we have at the head of our government.
Our clown isn’t even funny let alone being shit on the ukelele.
Date: 27/02/2022 13:52:42
From: party_pants
ID: 1853609
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
party_pants said:
transition said:
they aren’t there to kill the locals, they are there to put the squeeze on regard joining NATO, which master Putin is saying a loud no
the propaganda machine is yelling invasion invasion invasion
but put the squeeze on better says it
It is an invasion.
I didn’t say it wasn’t, all I suggested was put the squeeze on better explains it
No. It says it worse. Sending in tanks and troops to occupy a country so you can dictate their future foreign policy is an invasion. Plain and simple and within the ordinary dictionary definition of the word. Your phasing is just euphemism.
Date: 27/02/2022 14:20:24
From: dv
ID: 1853613
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I have not seen any reporting at all on the progress of Russian forces in the south.
Date: 27/02/2022 14:20:49
From: Kingy
ID: 1853615
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The USAF has a Global Hawk drone loitering over the black sea(Intel), and at least one KC-135 tanker loitering over Romania. I’m guessing they are providing advanced warnings to the Ukes, and quite possibly flying a few stealths over the battlefield. I wonder if they are the Ukrainian “ghost” plane that is being talked up.
Date: 27/02/2022 14:23:46
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853616
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
furious said:
transition said:
I didn’t say it wasn’t, all I suggested was put the squeeze on better explains it
No, “it’s an invasion” explains it just fine…
yes, sure, but take it in context of what SCIENCE said, and what I was responding to, that was the exchange
Seriously though, consider that there may be planned apparent limitations, why is it being done the way it is ¿
Presuming Russians are stupid seems a bold and not necessarily substantiated move.
Why would they claim to capture island Ukrainians, which Ukraine claim were massacred ¿ Why put armour everywhere, but sustain 1000 casualties versus 198 Ukraine civilians ¿
Even though nobody believes them, is there cred’ to be preserved, and martyrs to be avoided, if you don’t go around atrocitying ¿
Why call it “peacekeeping” ¿
Date: 27/02/2022 14:24:44
From: Kingy
ID: 1853617
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I have not seen any reporting at all on the progress of Russian forces in the south.
https://liveuamap.com/
Date: 27/02/2022 14:29:56
From: Kingy
ID: 1853620
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I have not seen any reporting at all on the progress of Russian forces in the south.
https://i.redd.it/hy6vtwz5oak81.jpg
Date: 27/02/2022 14:42:32
From: dv
ID: 1853623
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
I have not seen any reporting at all on the progress of Russian forces in the south.
https://i.redd.it/hy6vtwz5oak81.jpg
Yeah and I am monitoring the live action map but I mean there has been nothing on the broadcast news
Date: 27/02/2022 15:32:19
From: dv
ID: 1853638
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

William Bowe took exception to those News.com headline.
I suppose it depends whether brazen is necessarily negative.
Date: 27/02/2022 15:33:57
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853639
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
did they hit the vodka convoy?
Date: 27/02/2022 15:38:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853640
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

If this bloke survives, and is turfed out of the job, can we hire him?
Date: 27/02/2022 15:57:51
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1853642
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:
dv said:
Shit eh … that’s going to kick things up a notch.

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
Hope they don’t turn up in shorts and thongs.
Date: 27/02/2022 16:01:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853643
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Michael V said:
JudgeMental said:

and this…
Gosh. Idiots.
Hope they don’t turn up in shorts and thongs.
They’d probably have their disposal-shop ‘tactical’ gear with them.
The front-line troops should at least get a few laughs from that.
Date: 27/02/2022 16:07:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853646
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Outside the Scottish parliament:

Date: 27/02/2022 16:23:25
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1853653
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
You see this as Russia vs Ukraine.
I see this as Russia vs NATO.
ie. Russia
vs
Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey etc.
Date: 27/02/2022 16:58:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853673
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 17:00:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853674
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 17:06:58
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853675
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Elon Musk said Saturday his company SpaceX’s Starlink satellite broadband service had been activated in Ukraine, after a Kyiv official urged the tech titan to provide his embattled country with stations.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/musk-activates-starlink-internet-service-in-ukraine/ar-AAUmbWC?ocid=msedgntp
Date: 27/02/2022 17:24:38
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853676
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“The Kremlin-backed RT channel, which has reported that Russian troops are trying to liberate Ukraine, has been suspended by Foxtel in Australia.”
Date: 27/02/2022 17:29:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853677
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelensky.
Not only is he the kind of President we haven’t seen since ‘Independence Day’ came out, he’s a shit-hot dancer too.
https://imgur.com/gallery/qJC6KMK
Date: 27/02/2022 17:30:34
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853678
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Trump condemns Russia invasion”
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/politics/trump-condemns-russia-invasion-hints-again-at-2024-presidential-run/ar-AAUm079?ocid=msedgntp
Date: 27/02/2022 17:31:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853679
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
“Trump condemns Russia invasion”
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/politics/trump-condemns-russia-invasion-hints-again-at-2024-presidential-run/ar-AAUm079?ocid=msedgntp
I wonder how long it took to slap that into him.
Date: 27/02/2022 17:41:23
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853682
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“Trump condemns Russia invasion”
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/politics/trump-condemns-russia-invasion-hints-again-at-2024-presidential-run/ar-AAUm079?ocid=msedgntp
I wonder how long it took to slap that into him.
wait so is he condemning the Ukraine invasion by Russians, or is he condemning the counterstrike by Ukrainian forces against Russia, it
Date: 27/02/2022 17:42:22
From: dv
ID: 1853683
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Ukraine isn’t a democracy. It’s a State Department client state.”
— Fox Host Tucker Carlson
“Ukraine’s not even a country. It’s kind of a concept…It’s just a corrupt area that the Clintons turned into a colony where they can steal money out of.”
— Steve Bannon
Date: 27/02/2022 17:43:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853684
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kingy said:
dv said:
I have not seen any reporting at all on the progress of Russian forces in the south.
https://i.redd.it/hy6vtwz5oak81.jpg
Yeah and I am monitoring the live action map but I mean there has been nothing on the broadcast news
why
Date: 27/02/2022 17:44:32
From: dv
ID: 1853685
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
“Trump condemns Russia invasion”
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/politics/trump-condemns-russia-invasion-hints-again-at-2024-presidential-run/ar-AAUm079?ocid=msedgntp
BLTN I suppose
Date: 27/02/2022 17:52:01
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853686
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
“Ukraine isn’t a democracy. It’s a State Department client state.”
— Fox Host Tucker Carlson
“Ukraine’s not even a country. It’s kind of a concept…It’s just a corrupt area that the Clintons turned into a colony where they can steal money out of.”
— Steve Bannon
well then, they’ve got it coming.
Date: 27/02/2022 17:54:57
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853688
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
“Ukraine isn’t a democracy. It’s a State Department client state.”
— Fox Host Tucker Carlson
“Ukraine’s not even a country. It’s kind of a concept…It’s just a corrupt area that the Clintons turned into a colony where they can steal money out of.”
— Steve Bannon
to be fair a boundary is a concept. But the Ukraine has been around longer than the Clinton’s I believe.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:00:38
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853689
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
at 16:4816:48
BreakingFighting in Kharkiv – reports
There are now reports of fighting in the streets of Kharkiv. Russian troops had broken into the city in the past hour, local officials say.
Social media footage appears to show some Russian units in the city. There are also pictures appearing to show at least two Russian “Tiger” vehicles on fire in the city.
The BBC has not yet verified these pictures.
Kharkiv officials this morning have warned locals to stay in shelters and off the streets.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:06:06
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853690
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“Trump condemns Russia invasion”
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/politics/trump-condemns-russia-invasion-hints-again-at-2024-presidential-run/ar-AAUm079?ocid=msedgntp
I wonder how long it took to slap that into him.
wait so is he condemning the Ukraine invasion by Russians, or is he condemning the counterstrike by Ukrainian forces against Russia, it
He’s condemning the US invasion.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:07:57
From: dv
ID: 1853691
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine’s neighbours are mainly NATO/EU nations (Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Poland) and “Union State” countries (Russia, Belarus).
The exception is Moldova which is constitutionally required to remain neutral and has no NATO aspirations nor any desire to be part of the Union State, but they do have a plan to join the EU.
Like Ukraine, Moldova has a Russian-backed breakaway area that is outside its effective control, Transnistria.
President Maia Sandu has condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine and she has opened Moldova’s border to refugees. I would imagine there is not much that Moldova can do in terms of military aid.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:11:39
From: dv
ID: 1853692
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
Date: 27/02/2022 18:13:20
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853693
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
Wow.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:15:35
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853694
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Fuck me – the Russians are not having a good time of things.
Ukrainians obliterate Chechen special forces column of 56 tanks outside Kyiv, those killed include Chechen general Magomed Tushaev – one of the regime’s most highly-decorated soldiers.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:28:31
From: sibeen
ID: 1853697
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:36:53
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853699
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
I would assume that areas would be enabled once all the paperwork and permit stuff was sorted out. So unless the system is rolled out into a region, it doesn’t bother transmitting.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:38:47
From: buffy
ID: 1853702
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
Probably you have to pay for it unless it’s this emergency situation. My understanding is that they aren’t exactly rolling in money in that region.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:45:39
From: dv
ID: 1853707
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
Would it kill you to give him an ounce of credit?
Date: 27/02/2022 18:46:51
From: sibeen
ID: 1853708
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
Would it kill you to give him an ounce of credit?
More than likely.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:51:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853713
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
sibeen said:
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
Would it kill you to give him an ounce of credit?
More than likely.
This satellite stuff may be useful. At least he hasn’t sent a miniature submarine.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:53:30
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853716
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
Elon Musk activates Starlink satellites to give Ukraine data backup
Satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk has activated Starlink, his commercial internet network, in Ukraine, with “more terminals en route,” the billionaire said.
Musk’s SpaceX has thousands of Starlink satellites in orbit, which allow the company to beam broadband services around Earth, without the need for fiber-optic cables. The satellites could keep Ukraine online if its internet infrastructure is damaged by Russia’s attacks.
Musk’s move came in response to a plea by Ukraine’s First Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov, who called for help on Saturday, as Ukraine fought off an invasion and sustained cyberattacks by Russian forces.
https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-activates-starlink-satellites-to-give-ukraine-data-backup/
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
Would it kill you to give him an ounce of credit?
I think it would.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:54:24
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853717
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
You see this as Russia vs Ukraine.
I see this as Russia vs NATO.
Presumably because you couldn’t give a shit about Ukraine.
Other people see it for what it is – an unprovoked, illegal and insane attack on a sovereign nation for refusing to be bullied into non-existence by a demented old fascist and the thugs that support him.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:54:34
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1853718
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
dv said:
sibeen said:
I’m scratching my head over this. Why would the satellites have been disabled over the Ukraine in the first place? I suspect that absolutely nothing has changed.
Would it kill you to give him an ounce of credit?
I think it would.
Certainly not worth the risk.
Date: 27/02/2022 18:57:04
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853719
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
sarahs mum said:
dv said:
Would it kill you to give him an ounce of credit?
I think it would.
Certainly not worth the risk.
what happened to “do the experiment”?!!!
Date: 27/02/2022 19:31:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853724
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Concerns are mounting that Russia is preparing to use thermobaric weapons as part of its invasion of Ukraine.
The weapons — which effectively set the air on fire, creating a massive shock wave and sucking the air out of the lungs of its victims — have reportedly been seen near the city of Kharkiv, in Ukraine’s east.
Their use would mark an escalation in the assault by Russian forces, which are targeting cities across the country, including the capital Kyiv.
LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
CNN reported today that Russian TOS-1 rocket launchers, able to launch up to 30 rockets armed with thermobaric warheads, had mobilised in eastern Ukraine.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-27/what-are-thermobaric-weapon-which-russia-may-use-against-ukraine/100865560
Date: 27/02/2022 19:33:07
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853725
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>The Russian delegation claimed it was “ready for talks” with the Ukrainians in Belarus, presidential spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters, according to Russia news agency RIA Novosti. Zelenskiy rejected the claims.
I’m pretty sure they mean “the Russian delegation is ready for talks with whatever puppets we install in Kyiv after we’ve removed the legitimate government.”
Date: 27/02/2022 19:45:21
From: dv
ID: 1853732
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 19:55:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853734
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelenskiy: Russia is bombarding residential areas
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Sunday that Russia was bombarding residential areas in Ukraine, AFP reports, but warned “we will fight as long as it takes to liberate the country.”
In an address posted online, Zelenskiy said: “The past night in Ukraine was brutal, again shooting, again bombardments of residential areas, civilian infrastructure.”
“Today, there is not a single thing in the country that the occupiers do not consider an acceptable target. They fight against everyone. They fight against all living things – against kindergartens, against residential buildings and even against ambulances.”
He said Russian forces were “firing rockets and missiles at entire city districts in which there isn’t and never has been any military infrastructure”.
“Vasylkiv, Kyiv, Chernigiv, Sumy, Kharkiv and many other towns in Ukraine are living in conditions that were last experienced on our lands during World War II.”
Date: 27/02/2022 20:08:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853740
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy: Russia is bombarding residential areas
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Sunday that Russia was bombarding residential areas in Ukraine, AFP reports, but warned “we will fight as long as it takes to liberate the country.”
In an address posted online, Zelenskiy said: “The past night in Ukraine was brutal, again shooting, again bombardments of residential areas, civilian infrastructure.”
“Today, there is not a single thing in the country that the occupiers do not consider an acceptable target. They fight against everyone. They fight against all living things – against kindergartens, against residential buildings and even against ambulances.”
He said Russian forces were “firing rockets and missiles at entire city districts in which there isn’t and never has been any military infrastructure”.
“Vasylkiv, Kyiv, Chernigiv, Sumy, Kharkiv and many other towns in Ukraine are living in conditions that were last experienced on our lands during World War II.”
ugh so the pretence is over and total war is the flavour of the day
Date: 27/02/2022 21:39:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853771
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/02/2022 21:46:38
From: dv
ID: 1853773
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/vVlRFHTBhfw
Zelenskyy gives a brief speech, explains why he cannot accept Minsk as a venue for peace talks because Belarus allowed itself to be used as a staging area for the invasion.
Date: 27/02/2022 21:53:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853774
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://youtu.be/vVlRFHTBhfw
Zelenskyy gives a brief speech, explains why he cannot accept Minsk as a venue for peace talks because Belarus allowed itself to be used as a staging area for the invasion.
I don’t think the Russians were seriously planning to invite him, anyway.
They’ll appoint a puppet “Ukrainian government” (possibly even before the invasion has succeeded) and “negotiate” with them (i.e., get them to rubber-stamp Putin’s conditions).
Date: 27/02/2022 21:57:57
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1853775
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
this just went past on my facebook

Date: 27/02/2022 22:06:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Germany hikes defence spending to €100bn after Russia’s Ukraine invasion
Germany departed from longstanding policy again on Sunday with chancellor Olaf Scholz announcing the government will supply €100bn for military investments from its 2022 budget.
“We will have to invest more in the security of our country to protect out freedom and democracy,” Scholz told lawmakers, receiving a standign ovation. That means Germany will spend over 2% of economic output on defence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/27/russia-ukraine-latest-news-missile-strikes-on-oil-facilities-reported-as-some-russian-banks-cut-off-from-swift-system-live
Date: 27/02/2022 22:08:35
From: dv
ID: 1853777
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Germany hikes defence spending to €100bn after Russia’s Ukraine invasion
Germany departed from longstanding policy again on Sunday with chancellor Olaf Scholz announcing the government will supply €100bn for military investments from its 2022 budget.
“We will have to invest more in the security of our country to protect out freedom and democracy,” Scholz told lawmakers, receiving a standign ovation. That means Germany will spend over 2% of economic output on defence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/27/russia-ukraine-latest-news-missile-strikes-on-oil-facilities-reported-as-some-russian-banks-cut-off-from-swift-system-live
Ramping up their renewables spending would also help…
Date: 27/02/2022 22:10:44
From: Kingy
ID: 1853778
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:

He’s probably expecting to just keep throwing cannon fodder at it until it goes his way.
Now that nearly everyone has a video camera in their pocket, the senseless bloodshed on the worlds screens every day is likely to force an end to it much sooner than it did in Chechnya.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:13:29
From: party_pants
ID: 1853779
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Germany hikes defence spending to €100bn after Russia’s Ukraine invasion
Germany departed from longstanding policy again on Sunday with chancellor Olaf Scholz announcing the government will supply €100bn for military investments from its 2022 budget.
“We will have to invest more in the security of our country to protect out freedom and democracy,” Scholz told lawmakers, receiving a standign ovation. That means Germany will spend over 2% of economic output on defence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/27/russia-ukraine-latest-news-missile-strikes-on-oil-facilities-reported-as-some-russian-banks-cut-off-from-swift-system-live
wasn’t 2% of GDP the agreed target for NATO members countries since… forever?
Date: 27/02/2022 22:14:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853780
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Germany hikes defence spending to €100bn after Russia’s Ukraine invasion
Germany departed from longstanding policy again on Sunday with chancellor Olaf Scholz announcing the government will supply €100bn for military investments from its 2022 budget.
“We will have to invest more in the security of our country to protect out freedom and democracy,” Scholz told lawmakers, receiving a standign ovation. That means Germany will spend over 2% of economic output on defence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/27/russia-ukraine-latest-news-missile-strikes-on-oil-facilities-reported-as-some-russian-banks-cut-off-from-swift-system-live
wasn’t 2% of GDP the agreed target for NATO members countries since… forever?
Yeah.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:15:57
From: dv
ID: 1853781
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Germany hikes defence spending to €100bn after Russia’s Ukraine invasion
Germany departed from longstanding policy again on Sunday with chancellor Olaf Scholz announcing the government will supply €100bn for military investments from its 2022 budget.
“We will have to invest more in the security of our country to protect out freedom and democracy,” Scholz told lawmakers, receiving a standign ovation. That means Germany will spend over 2% of economic output on defence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/27/russia-ukraine-latest-news-missile-strikes-on-oil-facilities-reported-as-some-russian-banks-cut-off-from-swift-system-live
wasn’t 2% of GDP the agreed target for NATO members countries since… forever?
Yeah.
Is Putin secretly proNATO?
Date: 27/02/2022 22:20:38
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853782
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
How long can Russia afford this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/t2j9s1/russians_have_found_out_about_the_sanctions_and/
Date: 27/02/2022 22:21:59
From: party_pants
ID: 1853784
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
wasn’t 2% of GDP the agreed target for NATO members countries since… forever?
Yeah.
Is Putin secretly proNATO?
NATO has been on autopilot for a decade or more. The next crisis was either going to break it or redefine it. Putin’s choice to try his luck.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:24:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853786
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
How long can Russia afford this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/t2j9s1/russians_have_found_out_about_the_sanctions_and/
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:34:33
From: dv
ID: 1853798
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
How long can Russia afford this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/t2j9s1/russians_have_found_out_about_the_sanctions_and/
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
It’s hard to know how things are going, really.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:39:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853804
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
How long can Russia afford this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/t2j9s1/russians_have_found_out_about_the_sanctions_and/
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
It’s hard to know how things are going, really.
I’d imagine in the places that matter (i.e., the regions the Ukrainians are actually defending) it’s likely to be grim attrition for a while.
And after that, Putin will have a nation of 40 million largely hostile people to police. Russia doesn’t have the resources to keep that up for long.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:43:43
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1853806
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
It’s hard to know how things are going, really.
I’d imagine in the places that matter (i.e., the regions the Ukrainians are actually defending) it’s likely to be grim attrition for a while.
And after that, Putin will have a nation of 40 million largely hostile people to police. Russia doesn’t have the resources to keep that up for long.
TATE says:
(Ukraine) is the second-largest country by area in Europe after Russia, which it borders to the east and north-east.
I didn’t know that.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:46:16
From: dv
ID: 1853807
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
It’s hard to know how things are going, really.
I’d imagine in the places that matter (i.e., the regions the Ukrainians are actually defending) it’s likely to be grim attrition for a while.
And after that, Putin will have a nation of 40 million largely hostile people to police. Russia doesn’t have the resources to keep that up for long.
TATE says:
(Ukraine) is the second-largest country by area in Europe after Russia, which it borders to the east and north-east.
I didn’t know that.
I did.
What would you have guessed was the second-largest country by area in Europe after Russia? Ukraine’s pretty big on a map.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:50:46
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853808
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
How long can Russia afford this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/t2j9s1/russians_have_found_out_about_the_sanctions_and/
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
I’m just reading up on the “Terror Squad” special force that Russia sent in to hunt down the president and his cabinet – hardened vets from Afghanistan with a reputation for savageness and not playing by the rules. They, and their 56 tanks were wiped out on day 2.
I don’t know who Putin’s strategist is, but he’s probably not got long on this earth.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:52:14
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1853809
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Bubblecar said:
I’d imagine in the places that matter (i.e., the regions the Ukrainians are actually defending) it’s likely to be grim attrition for a while.
And after that, Putin will have a nation of 40 million largely hostile people to police. Russia doesn’t have the resources to keep that up for long.
TATE says:
(Ukraine) is the second-largest country by area in Europe after Russia, which it borders to the east and north-east.
I didn’t know that.
I did.
What would you have guessed was the second-largest country by area in Europe after Russia? Ukraine’s pretty big on a map.
I would have guessed Germany, which is actually 7th!
I suppose I just haven’t paid attention to the size of Ukraine on maps.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:59:29
From: sibeen
ID: 1853810
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
How long can Russia afford this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/t2j9s1/russians_have_found_out_about_the_sanctions_and/
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
I’m just reading up on the “Terror Squad” special force that Russia sent in to hunt down the president and his cabinet – hardened vets from Afghanistan with a reputation for savageness and not playing by the rules. They, and their 56 tanks were wiped out on day 2.
I don’t know who Putin’s strategist is, but he’s probably not got long on this earth.
Err, the Ruskies pulled out of Afghanistan in 1989 – that’s 32 years ago. Those hardened vets are using canes.
Date: 27/02/2022 22:59:52
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
It’s hard to know how things are going, really.
I’d imagine in the places that matter (i.e., the regions the Ukrainians are actually defending) it’s likely to be grim attrition for a while.
And after that, Putin will have a nation of 40 million largely hostile people to police. Russia doesn’t have the resources to keep that up for long.
I predict the war will only briefly outlast Putin.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:02:24
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853812
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
I’m just reading up on the “Terror Squad” special force that Russia sent in to hunt down the president and his cabinet – hardened vets from Afghanistan with a reputation for savageness and not playing by the rules. They, and their 56 tanks were wiped out on day 2.
I don’t know who Putin’s strategist is, but he’s probably not got long on this earth.
Err, the Ruskies pulled out of Afghanistan in 1989 – that’s 32 years ago. Those hardened vets are using canes.
I think DO meant the Chechen special forces.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:03:34
From: sibeen
ID: 1853813
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
I’m just reading up on the “Terror Squad” special force that Russia sent in to hunt down the president and his cabinet – hardened vets from Afghanistan with a reputation for savageness and not playing by the rules. They, and their 56 tanks were wiped out on day 2.
I don’t know who Putin’s strategist is, but he’s probably not got long on this earth.
Err, the Ruskies pulled out of Afghanistan in 1989 – that’s 32 years ago. Those hardened vets are using canes.
I think DO meant the Chechen special forces.
Ahh, Islamic nutjobs then.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:07:09
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853817
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Bubblecar said:
I’d imagine in the places that matter (i.e., the regions the Ukrainians are actually defending) it’s likely to be grim attrition for a while.
And after that, Putin will have a nation of 40 million largely hostile people to police. Russia doesn’t have the resources to keep that up for long.
TATE says:
(Ukraine) is the second-largest country by area in Europe after Russia, which it borders to the east and north-east.
I didn’t know that.
I did.
What would you have guessed was the second-largest country by area in Europe after Russia? Ukraine’s pretty big on a map.
Probably Cornwall.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:14:27
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853818
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
That queue is almost as long as some of the destroyed Russian convoys in Ukraine.
I’m just reading up on the “Terror Squad” special force that Russia sent in to hunt down the president and his cabinet – hardened vets from Afghanistan with a reputation for savageness and not playing by the rules. They, and their 56 tanks were wiped out on day 2.
I don’t know who Putin’s strategist is, but he’s probably not got long on this earth.
Err, the Ruskies pulled out of Afghanistan in 1989 – that’s 32 years ago. Those hardened vets are using canes.
Valid point.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:15:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853819
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin’s miscalculation
The president has misread not only Ukrainians, but also Russians.
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-russia-vladimir-putin-miscalculation/
Date: 27/02/2022 23:19:19
From: sibeen
ID: 1853820
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Andriy Zagorodnyuk, Ukraine’s former defence minister, says Belarus is
about to declare war on Ukraine, writes Luke Harding in Lviv.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/27/russia-ukraine-latest-news-missile-strikes-on-oil-facilities-reported-as-some-russian-banks-cut-off-from-swift-system-live
Date: 27/02/2022 23:21:55
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853821
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Ukranians seem to have all the neat toys, and know how to use them.
Drone footage of things going bang.
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497856040544526338
Date: 27/02/2022 23:29:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853825
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
The Ukranians seem to have all the neat toys, and know how to use them.
Drone footage of things going bang.
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497856040544526338
Here’s one belonging to the Ukrainian Navy. Apparently Ukraine has 18 of these particular drones.

Date: 27/02/2022 23:32:39
From: dv
ID: 1853826
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Alexander Lukashenko has been President of Belarus for 28 years.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:35:21
From: sibeen
ID: 1853829
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Alexander Lukashenko has been President of Belarus for 28 years.
He must be very good at his job.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:36:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853830
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Alexander Lukashenko has been President of Belarus for 28 years.
Who knows, this misadventure might eventually hasten the end of that creep along with Putin.
Date: 27/02/2022 23:37:18
From: dv
ID: 1853831
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Alexander Lukashenko has been President of Belarus for 28 years.
He must be very good at his job.
Genius, savvy, etc
Date: 27/02/2022 23:38:03
From: dv
ID: 1853832
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine files lawsuit against Russia at The Hague
Ukraine has filed a lawsuit against Russia at the International Court of Justice following Moscow’s invasion of the country.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Sunday the country submitted its application with the UN’s highest court at The Hague.
“Russia must be held accountable for manipulating the notion of genocide to justify aggression,” Zelensky said.
He requested the court immediately orders Russia to halt its invasion, and that the country expects trials to begin soon.
—-
eh, might as well
Date: 28/02/2022 00:13:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853837
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine has repelled the latest attack on Kharkiv:
Ukrainian forces have repelled a Russian attempt to seize Kharkiv, the city’s governor claimed on Sunday, following fierce fighting and street battles with advancing Russian troops.
Kharkiv’s governor Oleh Synyehubov said Ukrainian soldiers were now “cleaning up” the eastern city. He said Russian soldiers were surrendering in groups of five to ten and throwing their equipment in the middle of the road.
“Control over Kharkiv is completely ours!” Synyehubov posted on Facebook. “A complete cleansing of the city from the enemy is happening. The Russian enemy is absolutely demoralised.”
Guardian Live.
Date: 28/02/2022 01:00:54
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853845
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It’s like a war zone…
https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1497919141172310017
https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1497919595017027586
Date: 28/02/2022 01:34:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853846
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelenskiy: Ukrainian and Russian delegations to meet without preconditions
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy said the Ukrainian and Russian delegations will meet without preconditions.
Guardian Live
He has to be careful now. I’d imagine Ukrainian troops will be very unhappy if he makes any concessions to the Russians, and they could disown him.
Date: 28/02/2022 01:37:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853847
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russian soldiers were surrendering in groups of five to ten and throwing their equipment in the middle of the road.
“Control over Kharkiv is completely ours!” Synyehubov posted on Facebook. “A complete cleansing of the city from the enemy is happening. The Russian enemy is absolutely demoralised.”
seems bizarrely miscalculated
Date: 28/02/2022 01:41:55
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853848
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian soldiers were surrendering in groups of five to ten and throwing their equipment in the middle of the road.
“Control over Kharkiv is completely ours!” Synyehubov posted on Facebook. “A complete cleansing of the city from the enemy is happening. The Russian enemy is absolutely demoralised.”
seems bizarrely miscalculated
Hard to say. Putin probably didn’t expect this level of resistance, but he’s not necessarily upset by it because the lives of Russian troops don’t mean much to him and he has plenty of them to waste.
He can just keep feeding his own forces into the grinder until the Ukrainians are worn down by attrition.
Date: 28/02/2022 01:44:37
From: dv
ID: 1853849
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Over 3000 protesters have now been arrested in Russia
https://thehill.com/policy/international/russia/596007-over-3000-russians-arrested-for-protesting-attack-against-ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 01:46:34
From: dv
ID: 1853850
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’ve seen some very misleading maps on the news services, seeming to show that the area where ethnic Russian dominate covers about a third of Ukraine.
The blue areas on this map are areas where ethnic Russians make up over 50% of the population. Very much concentrated in Crimea and the south-east border.

Date: 28/02/2022 01:48:20
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853852
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian soldiers were surrendering in groups of five to ten and throwing their equipment in the middle of the road.
“Control over Kharkiv is completely ours!” Synyehubov posted on Facebook. “A complete cleansing of the city from the enemy is happening. The Russian enemy is absolutely demoralised.”
seems bizarrely miscalculated
Hard to say. Putin probably didn’t expect this level of resistance, but he’s not necessarily upset by it because the lives of Russian troops don’t mean much to him and he has plenty of them to waste.
He can just keep feeding his own forces into the grinder until the Ukrainians are worn down by attrition.
Yes but “Russian soldiers were surrendering” sounds different to “Russian soldiers were fighting to the death and taking their weight in Ukrainian forces with them” so it doesn’t really quite add up, or subtract if you like.
Why send troops in to surrender, might as well just tell them to walk over to the other side and apply for citizenship.
Date: 28/02/2022 01:49:52
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853854
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I’ve seen some very misleading maps on the news services, seeming to show that the area where ethnic Russian dominate covers about a third of Ukraine.
The blue areas on this map are areas where ethnic Russians make up over 50% of the population. Very much concentrated in Crimea and the south-east border.

has that changed in 21 years
Date: 28/02/2022 01:51:07
From: dv
ID: 1853856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
seems bizarrely miscalculated
Hard to say. Putin probably didn’t expect this level of resistance, but he’s not necessarily upset by it because the lives of Russian troops don’t mean much to him and he has plenty of them to waste.
He can just keep feeding his own forces into the grinder until the Ukrainians are worn down by attrition.
Yes but “Russian soldiers were surrendering” sounds different to “Russian soldiers were fighting to the death and taking their weight in Ukrainian forces with them” so it doesn’t really quite add up, or subtract if you like.
Why send troops in to surrender, might as well just tell them to walk over to the other side and apply for citizenship.
I mean I don’t think they were sent over to surrender. I think them surrendering was not part of the plan. Perhaps they were cut off and surrender was their only option. Perhaps they just didn’t want to kill civilians any more. I mean shit, it’s just a job for the Russians. The Ukrainians are fighting for their country.
Date: 28/02/2022 01:51:30
From: dv
ID: 1853857
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
I’ve seen some very misleading maps on the news services, seeming to show that the area where ethnic Russian dominate covers about a third of Ukraine.
The blue areas on this map are areas where ethnic Russians make up over 50% of the population. Very much concentrated in Crimea and the south-east border.

has that changed in 21 years
Well you tell me.
But no.
Date: 28/02/2022 01:52:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853858
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
seems bizarrely miscalculated
Hard to say. Putin probably didn’t expect this level of resistance, but he’s not necessarily upset by it because the lives of Russian troops don’t mean much to him and he has plenty of them to waste.
He can just keep feeding his own forces into the grinder until the Ukrainians are worn down by attrition.
Yes but “Russian soldiers were surrendering” sounds different to “Russian soldiers were fighting to the death and taking their weight in Ukrainian forces with them” so it doesn’t really quite add up, or subtract if you like.
Why send troops in to surrender, might as well just tell them to walk over to the other side and apply for citizenship.
They surrendered after doing what damage they could to the defenders. Every little bit counts. And a quite a lot were probably killed before the rest surrendered.
Date: 28/02/2022 02:03:37
From: dv
ID: 1853861
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
59 min ago
Germany to construct two liquefied natural gas terminals as it looks to reduce Russian gas dependence
From CNN’s Chris Liakos
Germany will construct two liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said on Sunday, pledging to do more to protect Germany’s energy supply and as it looks to reduce its Russian gas dependence.
“We need to do more in order to protect energy supply of our country,” said Scholz adding “and in order to not depend on certain energy suppliers.”
Germany is Russia’s biggest gas customer. CNN has previously reported that Europe relies on Russia for around 35% of its natural gas, Germany over 50%. But with the threat of supply disruption following Russia’s attack on Ukraine, Germany along with other European countries has been looking to ramp up LNG imports.
Earlier this week, Germany halted certification of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline which could deliver 55 billion cubic meters of gas per year.
The two LNG terminals can also deal with green hydropower, according to the German Chancellor.
“The events of the last days and weeks showed to us that an energy policy that looks into the future is decisive for our climate and economy but also for our security and this is why we need to give renewable energy a push, the more we do it the better,” he said.
Scholz also announced that because of the high energy prices, made higher by “Putin’s war,” the government agreed to a package in order to “soften payments of energy for pensioners” and “give allowances to family with low income.”
Date: 28/02/2022 02:03:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853862
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine’s foreign minister: Ukraine-Russia talks with no preconditions ‘already a victory’
Ukraine’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said “we will not give up a single inch of our territory” ahead of talks agreed between the Ukrainian and Russian delegations.
Russia initially said it did not want talks, then said it wanted talks with conditions. Now, after a series of military setbacks that some observers say may have shocked Russian president Vladimir Putin, the conditions have been dropped – which Kuleba said was “already a victory”.
One element of the talks, Kuleba said, are that Belarus agreed it would not use military force against Ukraine “between now and the moment that the talks wrap up”.
Kuleba struck an optimistic tone during the briefing on Sunday, assuring reporters “we will prevail, I’m absolutely confident in that.”
“This is a war between president Putin and the people of Ukraine,” he said, adding: “We are determined to defeat Russia, the same way we defeated the previous monster in Europe 80 years ago.”
Date: 28/02/2022 02:23:11
From: dv
ID: 1853865
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I see this as Russia vs NATO.
I mean if Russia wanted to take on NATO, why not attack a NATO country? Too gutless?
Date: 28/02/2022 02:26:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853866
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
mollwollfumble said:
I see this as Russia vs NATO.
I mean if Russia wanted to take on NATO, why not attack a NATO country? Too gutless?
That would mean a fight, and it seems Putin actually thought he could roll into Ukraine without a fight, which as SCIENCE says, seems a bizarre miscalculation.
But various observers have been pointing out how he seems to live in his own little world these days, far from reality.
Date: 28/02/2022 02:30:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853868
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Hard to say. Putin probably didn’t expect this level of resistance, but he’s not necessarily upset by it because the lives of Russian troops don’t mean much to him and he has plenty of them to waste.
He can just keep feeding his own forces into the grinder until the Ukrainians are worn down by attrition.
Yes but “Russian soldiers were surrendering” sounds different to “Russian soldiers were fighting to the death and taking their weight in Ukrainian forces with them” so it doesn’t really quite add up, or subtract if you like.
Why send troops in to surrender, might as well just tell them to walk over to the other side and apply for citizenship.
I mean I don’t think they were sent over to surrender. I think (1) them surrendering was not part of the plan. Perhaps (2) they were cut off and surrender was their only option. Perhaps they (3) just didn’t want to kill civilians any more. I mean shit, it’s (4) just a job for the Russians. The (4) Ukrainians are fighting for their country.
They surrendered (5) after doing what damage they could to the defenders. Every little bit counts. And a (5) quite a lot were probably killed before the rest surrendered.
Sure maybe who knows ¿.
We mean
(1) you wouldn’t think surrender is planned but even a half-baked strategy would account for some losses, not just in standing numbers but in readiness or morale or even fucking home front support
(2) speaking of strategy like yeah you’re not meant to let your dick get cut off but given it seems to be a recurring theme in this not-even-5-day-war what the fuck are they argonaut octopus or something
(3) you’d think your high ranks would know if their men were hesitant to kill their brothers or instead execute them like pigs to the slaughter a la Australian special forces war crimes
(4) like this is Russia we’re talking about right, did Thoughts Of Tsaritsyn even occur to them at all
(5) maybe, though we’re not convinced that if you’re there to do as much damage as possible including every little bit, you’d stop and surrender just before you blew the rest of the shit up along with yourself, but we don’t know, we’ve never gone to war with and killed Ukrainians
doesn’t make sense to us
Date: 28/02/2022 02:32:13
From: dv
ID: 1853869
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
mollwollfumble said:
I see this as Russia vs NATO.
I mean if Russia wanted to take on NATO, why not attack a NATO country? Too gutless?
That would mean a fight, and it seems Putin actually thought he could roll into Ukraine without a fight, which as SCIENCE says, seems a bizarre miscalculation.
But various observers have been pointing out how he seems to live in his own little world these days, far from reality.
It is interesting that they haven’t been able to knock out the Ukrainian air defence, or even their air force. It makes a big difference compared to Russia’s internal wars in Chechnya and Dagestan.
I presume NATO is providing the Ukrainian forces with satellite imagery etc.
Date: 28/02/2022 02:32:55
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853870
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
doesn’t make sense to us
which is why we’re expressing that sense of missing something important but hey then there’s this
Vladimir Putin has ordered his military command to put Russia’s deterrent forces — a reference to units that include nuclear arms — on high alert. Speaking at a meeting with his top officials which was televised in Russia, Mr Putin cited what he claimed to be “aggressive” statements by NATO leaders and economic sanctions against Moscow. Mr Putin told the Russian Defense Minister and the chief of the military’s General Staff to put the nuclear deterrent forces in a “special regime of combat duty.”
we mean if they’re just looking for an excuse to start throwing plutonium around
Date: 28/02/2022 02:33:32
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853871
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>(5) maybe, though we’re not convinced that if you’re there to do as much damage as possible including every little bit, you’d stop and surrender just before you blew the rest of the shit up along with yourself, but we don’t know, we’ve never gone to war with and killed Ukrainians
Their orders don’t require them to commit suicide, and such orders would unlikely to be obeyed by anyone except fanatical volunteers.
These are apparently just ordinary Russian troops.
Date: 28/02/2022 02:35:58
From: dv
ID: 1853873
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
I mean I don’t think they were sent over to surrender. I think (1) them surrendering was not part of the plan. Perhaps (2) they were cut off and surrender was their only option. Perhaps they (3) just didn’t want to kill civilians any more. I mean shit, it’s (4) just a job for the Russians. The (4) Ukrainians are fighting for their country.
They surrendered (5) after doing what damage they could to the defenders. Every little bit counts. And a (5) quite a lot were probably killed before the rest surrendered.
Sure maybe who knows ¿.
We mean
(1) you wouldn’t think surrender is planned but even a half-baked strategy would account for some losses, not just in standing numbers but in readiness or morale or even fucking home front support
(2) speaking of strategy like yeah you’re not meant to let your dick get cut off but given it seems to be a recurring theme in this not-even-5-day-war what the fuck are they argonaut octopus or something
(3) you’d think your high ranks would know if their men were hesitant to kill their brothers or instead execute them like pigs to the slaughter a la Australian special forces war crimes
(4) like this is Russia we’re talking about right, did Thoughts Of Tsaritsyn even occur to them at all
(5) maybe, though we’re not convinced that if you’re there to do as much damage as possible including every little bit, you’d stop and surrender just before you blew the rest of the shit up along with yourself, but we don’t know, we’ve never gone to war with and killed Ukrainians
doesn’t make sense to us
To my mind it would be easy to imagine that morale among Russian forces is low
Date: 28/02/2022 02:43:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853876
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
I mean if Russia wanted to take on NATO, why not attack a NATO country? Too gutless?
That would mean a fight, and it seems Putin actually thought he could roll into Ukraine without a fight, which as SCIENCE says, seems a bizarre miscalculation.
But various observers have been pointing out how he seems to live in his own little world these days, far from reality.
It is interesting that they haven’t been able to knock out the Ukrainian air defence, or even their air force. It makes a big difference compared to Russia’s internal wars in Chechnya and Dagestan.
I presume NATO is providing the Ukrainian forces with satellite imagery etc.
Those burnt-out convoys seem to have been hit from the air.
I wonder how much of a role Ukraine’s drones played.
Date: 28/02/2022 02:45:28
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853878
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Anyway we’re talking almost past tense, and the invasion is still underway. Talks may well come to nothing.
So I’ll leave the campaign room for tonight and catch some sleep in a bunker somewhere.
Date: 28/02/2022 02:45:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853879
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
>(5) maybe, though we’re not convinced that if you’re there to do as much damage as possible including every little bit, you’d stop and surrender just before you blew the rest of the shit up along with yourself, but we don’t know, we’ve never gone to war with and killed Ukrainians
Their orders don’t require them to commit suicide, and such orders would unlikely to be obeyed by anyone except fanatical volunteers.
These are apparently just ordinary Russian troops.
yeah just doesn’t make sense to us, if we’d just killed a handful of enemy, we doubt the very next thing would be sharing a beer or sipping lattes with them the moment we surrendered
disclaimer: we’ve never been a Russian soldier, maybe downing vodkas together is different
Date: 28/02/2022 02:51:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853881
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
allegedly posted, plus allegedly now deleted

Date: 28/02/2022 02:56:08
From: Kingy
ID: 1853883
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
I mean if Russia wanted to take on NATO, why not attack a NATO country? Too gutless?
That would mean a fight, and it seems Putin actually thought he could roll into Ukraine without a fight, which as SCIENCE says, seems a bizarre miscalculation.
But various observers have been pointing out how he seems to live in his own little world these days, far from reality.
It is interesting that they haven’t been able to knock out the Ukrainian air defence, or even their air force. It makes a big difference compared to Russia’s internal wars in Chechnya and Dagestan.
I presume NATO is providing the Ukrainian forces with satellite imagery etc.
US Stealth bombers might have had something to do with it.
Date: 28/02/2022 02:57:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853884
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 02:58:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853885
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
old news but there you go
China’s Foreign Ministry on Friday stressed that Beijing believes the “sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries” should be respected — a principle that “applies equally to Ukraine.”
Date: 28/02/2022 03:02:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853886
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 03:11:05
From: Kingy
ID: 1853889
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
That would mean a fight, and it seems Putin actually thought he could roll into Ukraine without a fight, which as SCIENCE says, seems a bizarre miscalculation.
But various observers have been pointing out how he seems to live in his own little world these days, far from reality.
It is interesting that they haven’t been able to knock out the Ukrainian air defence, or even their air force. It makes a big difference compared to Russia’s internal wars in Chechnya and Dagestan.
I presume NATO is providing the Ukrainian forces with satellite imagery etc.
US Stealth bombers might have had something to do with it.
There is currently at least 4 large USAF air refuellers circling just outside of Ukraines airspace for no apparent reason.
Date: 28/02/2022 03:26:59
From: Kingy
ID: 1853892
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Kingy said:
dv said:
It is interesting that they haven’t been able to knock out the Ukrainian air defence, or even their air force. It makes a big difference compared to Russia’s internal wars in Chechnya and Dagestan.
I presume NATO is providing the Ukrainian forces with satellite imagery etc.
US Stealth bombers might have had something to do with it.
There is currently at least 4 large USAF air refuellers circling just outside of Ukraines airspace for no apparent reason.
I mentioned a coupla weeks ago about Pootin needing to mobilise tanks before thaw. Pootin waited for a week so as not to upset Pooh King, but now the Ukes have held up his advance by another week. The ground is turning into mud. Shitcans army is sinking fast.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/t2lqfs/russian_t90_and_2s3_akatsiya_are_stuck_in_the_mud/
Date: 28/02/2022 03:46:35
From: dv
ID: 1853897
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia Today and Sputnik news outlets have been banned in the EU.
Date: 28/02/2022 04:20:35
From: dv
ID: 1853899
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
BP is going to divest from its holdings in Russian state oil giant Rosneft.
Date: 28/02/2022 06:22:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853902
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Kingy said:
dv said:
It is interesting that they haven’t been able to knock out the Ukrainian air defence, or even their air force. It makes a big difference compared to Russia’s internal wars in Chechnya and Dagestan.
I presume NATO is providing the Ukrainian forces with satellite imagery etc.
US Stealth bombers might have had something to do with it.
There is currently at least 4 large USAF air refuellers circling just outside of Ukraines airspace for no apparent reason.
I can’t imagine the US risking WW3 by wasting their vastly expensive bombers on a load of cheap Russian trucks and BMPs, which the Ukrainians can take out readily enough with drones and RPGs.
Date: 28/02/2022 06:23:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1853903
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 07:46:14
From: dv
ID: 1853927
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
FIFA bans matches in Russia, no flag or anthem for team
No international soccer matches will be played in Russia and the Russian flag and anthem will be banned from any of their matches abroad, governing body FIFA said on Sunday.
It said the national team would not compete as Russia but as the Football Union of Russia (RFU) and any games would be held with no fans on “neutral territory”, as part of its sanctions following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Date: 28/02/2022 07:49:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 1853928
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 09:13:43
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853933
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:


Like i said yesterday, E-3 AWACS. Those NATO-badged ones are RAF-crewed and operated.
They’ll be looking for any aircraft that appear to be crossing into NATO airspace (and probably, just quietly, provide Ukraine with air warning coverage and intercept co-ordination).
There’s also certain to be RC-135s and E-8s in the area, funneling info back to NATO, and probably, by surreptitious means, to Ukraine.
Date: 28/02/2022 09:15:37
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853934
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:


Like i said yesterday, E-3 AWACS. Those NATO-badged ones are RAF-crewed and operated.
They’ll be looking for any aircraft that appear to be crossing into NATO airspace (and probably, just quietly, provide Ukraine with air warning coverage and intercept co-ordination).
There’s also certain to be RC-135s and E-8s in the area, funneling info back to NATO, and probably, by surreptitious means, to Ukraine.
Yeah I thought AWACs made more sense than refuelers.
Date: 28/02/2022 09:17:35
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853935
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:


Like i said yesterday, E-3 AWACS. Those NATO-badged ones are RAF-crewed and operated.
They’ll be looking for any aircraft that appear to be crossing into NATO airspace (and probably, just quietly, provide Ukraine with air warning coverage and intercept co-ordination).
There’s also certain to be RC-135s and E-8s in the area, funneling info back to NATO, and probably, by surreptitious means, to Ukraine.
Yeah I thought AWACs made more sense than refuelers.
As Kingy attested over the Black Sea.
Date: 28/02/2022 09:18:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853936
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:


Like i said yesterday, E-3 AWACS. Those NATO-badged ones are RAF-crewed and operated.
They’ll be looking for any aircraft that appear to be crossing into NATO airspace (and probably, just quietly, provide Ukraine with air warning coverage and intercept co-ordination).
There’s also certain to be RC-135s and E-8s in the area, funneling info back to NATO, and probably, by surreptitious means, to Ukraine.
Yeah I thought AWACs made more sense than refuelers.
KC-135 tankers will be there, too.
Date: 28/02/2022 09:21:39
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853938
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia doesn’t seem to have been able to establish air superiority which should have happened very quickly if they were as battle ready as claimed. I wonder if the US/NATO have been trying out their new cyber tricks that any self-respecting power would only break out for the eventuality of war.
Date: 28/02/2022 09:22:02
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853939
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
Like i said yesterday, E-3 AWACS. Those NATO-badged ones are RAF-crewed and operated.
They’ll be looking for any aircraft that appear to be crossing into NATO airspace (and probably, just quietly, provide Ukraine with air warning coverage and intercept co-ordination).
There’s also certain to be RC-135s and E-8s in the area, funneling info back to NATO, and probably, by surreptitious means, to Ukraine.
Yeah I thought AWACs made more sense than refuelers.
KC-135 tankers will be there, too.
Over Poland or the Black Sea?
Date: 28/02/2022 09:51:57
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1853943
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:


Like i said yesterday, E-3 AWACS. Those NATO-badged ones are RAF-crewed and operated.
They’ll be looking for any aircraft that appear to be crossing into NATO airspace (and probably, just quietly, provide Ukraine with air warning coverage and intercept co-ordination).
There’s also certain to be RC-135s and E-8s in the area, funneling info back to NATO, and probably, by surreptitious means, to Ukraine.
Yeah I thought AWACs made more sense than refuelers.
And quietly listening to all the Russian air force chatter and signals etc.
Date: 28/02/2022 10:10:30
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853946
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Yeah I thought AWACs made more sense than refuelers.
KC-135 tankers will be there, too.
Over Poland or the Black Sea?
Poland, almost 100% certain.
Black Sea – Probably, but not getting terribly close to northern or north-eastern shores.
Quite possibly over NATO members Bulgaria and Romania, but i couldn’t say how effective E-3 and E-8 coverage would be at those distances. Possibly better than i imagine.
Date: 28/02/2022 11:24:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853968
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:

so what the fuck is this then, it’s verging on unbelievable but it kind of helps the whole thing make sense
it’s as if their armed forces were told that they really are there for peacekeeping, to roll on in and be a friendly reassuring presence for stability, their Ukraine brothers need them to help out a bit and will welcome them with open arms
not just an expansionist fantasy, but a historical one
guess its risky when your agents don’t have ground truth
Date: 28/02/2022 11:25:13
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1853970
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The battle for Kharkiv
Ukraine’s second city beats off a Russian assault
The capital, Kyiv, is still firmly in the government’s hands, too
Feb 27th 2022
KYIV
It is unclear what Russian soldiers expected as, walking in columns behind armoured vehicles, groups of them attempted to stroll into Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second city. Videos on social media, circulating from early morning on February 27th, showed them moving from at least two directions, advancing from the outskirts of the city towards the centre. Hours later the same channels were brim full of videos of abandoned vehicles and cowed, young prisoners of war. Once again, a big Russian assault had failed.
Stanislav Gluzman, an it entrepreneur who lives in the centre of Kharkiv, a city of 1.5m, said that the Russians must have thought “that Ukrainian forces would capitulate fast and people would be glad to see them.” An advance guard column, he added, had come within 450m of the city’s well-known statue to a Ukrainian national hero and poet, Taras Schevchenko, before being ambushed outside a supermarket. According to a local security official, dozens of Russians were taken prisoner.
By mid-afternoon Ukrainian soldiers were laying siege to Specialised School 134, 5km from the city centre. Inside the building were Russian soldiers who had earlier fled from their armoured cars—a convoy of at least four—after they were ambushed by Ukrainian fighters. Two more soldiers were reported to have been taken prisoner.
Dramatic footage shared with The Economist by a friend of a soldier fighting at the school showed Ukrainian troops shooting, a terrified young Russian prisoner and Ukrainian soldiers running across the road to unload arms and supplies from the attackers’ vehicles. Their doors open, they had been abandoned rather than stopped by any missiles.
Maria Avdeeva, an analyst who also lives close to the centre, said the Russians had entered the city in small groups, but Ukrainian forces were waiting to repel them. “The Ukrainian military started to destroy them” almost immediately, she said. As evening fell the sounds of battle had receded to Kharkiv’s airport and elsewhere on the city’s outskirts.
Ms Avdeeva was most struck by the sight of Russian captives seen in videos. “They look like kids! They say they were brought here from Russia’s Far East and were told they were going on a training exercise.” She added: “They were ordered to come here and they were not ready. They were not prepared for fierce resistance from Ukrainian forces. Maybe they thought Ukrainian soldiers would not fight and they could just come here easily but now, with every hour, as civilians are getting killed people are getting angrier and angrier and more united against this aggression.”
Russia’s failure to take Kharkiv has bolstered Ukrainian morale, even if the city is not yet safe. Further attacks, with more troops and heavier armour, could yet prove much harder to deal with. Kharkiv is strategically important for its roads and railway connections to the rest of the country. Ms Avdeeva said that she fears Vladimir Putin, whom she said had “lost touch with reality”, might order the shelling of civilian areas in order to create panic.
Meanwhile the fighting for Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, has continued. On February 26th authorities there introduced a curfew until the morning of the 28th. Those 36 hours were needed, they said, to find and take out special-forces groups that have supposedly infiltrated the city. Anyone without permission to be outside would be considered spies. Reports of mistaken identity and corpses on the streets have since emerged.
The city remains under reasonably secure Ukrainian control, although Russian tanks are closing in and the prospect of encirclement is real. Overnight, Russian armoured vehicles were seen at Bucha, usually a cosy resort village to the north-west of Kyiv. Video footage suggested that at least part of the column was later destroyed by the Ukrainians. “Die in hell, you bastards,” declared one videographer, voicing an increasingly widespread sentiment among Ukrainians towards their invaders.
The mauled military steel of those vehicles carried a new marking, a “V”, distinct from the “Z” that many assumed to mean Zelensky. Ukrainian authorities have suggested that the V column represented a particularly dangerous threat. “Anyone who knows its location should send data to Ukrainian defenders or if possible impede their further travel,” their message said. “It is vitally important.”
So far Russian forces have been unable to take control of any of Kyiv’s airfields, despite attacking at least four of them. Battles near the Vasylkiv airbase to the south-west of Kyiv remain particularly sharp. Early on February 27th a missile ignited a fuel tank, which has since been left to burn. Another missile was reported to have hit the grounds of a nuclear-waste facility, although not the storage areas themselves. A children’s hospital in central Kyiv came under gunfire; one child was killed. It is impossible to say if the targeting was deliberate.
When the attack began Natalya Tyshchuk, 36, was inside the hospital with her three-month-old prematurely born daughter. Baby in arms she took cover under the windowsill, then ran down three flights to the bomb shelter. Four terrifying nights have made this second nature. Staff have done their best to make the underground cover comfortable, she said. There are intensive-care cots there, along with food and water.
The same care has not been taken elsewhere. The swift implementation of the curfew has left many people isolated, with local aid workers reporting that as many as 10,000 people are underground in Kyiv’s metro system with neither food nor water. On February 26th Ukrainian railways appealed to local businesses to supply essentials to the 600 people using Kyiv’s central station as a shelter. A few trains are still running in a western direction, with priority given to women, children and the elderly. It seems unlikely they will run for much longer. But with its two largest cities still in the government’s hands, Ukraine has survived a fourth day of Mr Putin’s war.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/02/27/ukraines-second-city-beats-off-a-russian-assault?
Date: 28/02/2022 11:36:49
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853977
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
>(5) maybe, though we’re not convinced that if you’re there to do as much damage as possible including every little bit, you’d stop and surrender just before you blew the rest of the shit up along with yourself, but we don’t know, we’ve never gone to war with and killed Ukrainians
Their orders don’t require them to commit suicide, and such orders would unlikely to be obeyed by anyone except fanatical volunteers.
These are apparently just ordinary Russian troops.
yeah just doesn’t make sense to us, if we’d just killed a handful of enemy, we doubt the very next thing would be sharing a beer or sipping lattes with them the moment we surrendered
disclaimer: we’ve never been a Russian soldier, maybe downing vodkas together is different
On 24 May 1915, Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) and troops of the Ottoman Empire at Gallipoli agreed to a 9-hour truce to retrieve and bury their dead, during which opposing troops “exchang(ed) smiles and cigarettes”
Personally, I assume that like a lot of Russian civilians, members of the army just don’t want to be there and have no intention of giving their lives. They do their job up to a certain point, after which they put their hands in the air to give themselves an option to eventually get home to their loved ones.
And it is a smart move by the Ukrainians to get as many POWs as possible – it sends the message that the laying down of arms is an option to the Russian troops. Having enemy troops approaching with arms raised is much better than with guns raised.
Date: 28/02/2022 11:37:33
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853978
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

That sign is a photoshop, BTW.
Date: 28/02/2022 11:39:33
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853979
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:

That sign is a photoshop, BTW.
we mean it’s in a thread about false signage
Date: 28/02/2022 11:41:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1853981
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
>(5) maybe, though we’re not convinced that if you’re there to do as much damage as possible including every little bit, you’d stop and surrender just before you blew the rest of the shit up along with yourself, but we don’t know, we’ve never gone to war with and killed Ukrainians
Their orders don’t require them to commit suicide, and such orders would unlikely to be obeyed by anyone except fanatical volunteers.
These are apparently just ordinary Russian troops.
yeah just doesn’t make sense to us, if we’d just killed a handful of enemy, we doubt the very next thing would be sharing a beer or sipping lattes with them the moment we surrendered
disclaimer: we’ve never been a Russian soldier, maybe downing vodkas together is different
On 24 May 1915, Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) and troops of the Ottoman Empire at Gallipoli agreed to a 9-hour truce to retrieve and bury their dead, during which opposing troops “exchang(ed) smiles and cigarettes”
Personally, I assume that like a lot of Russian civilians, members of the army just don’t want to be there and have no intention of giving their lives. They do their job up to a certain point, after which they put their hands in the air to give themselves an option to eventually get home to their loved ones.
And it is a smart move by the Ukrainians to get as many POWs as possible – it sends the message that the laying down of arms is an option to the Russian troops. Having enemy troops approaching with arms raised is much better than with guns raised.
plausible, it’s been said that the big wars get fought over ideology, whereas territorial skirmish probably just doesn’t hold the same persuasive power
Date: 28/02/2022 11:43:35
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1853983
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KFPAOgCfGM
Link
Russia Attacked Civilian Merchant Ships Off The Coast of Ukraine
Chief MAKOi
Date: 28/02/2022 11:44:20
From: Cymek
ID: 1853984
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
Date: 28/02/2022 11:48:30
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1853985
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
Putin’s war is not going Putin’s way.
What needs to happen now is punish Russia’s top 50 -100 rich because Putin has 50 percent of their money.
That’s how he has hidden it.
Date: 28/02/2022 11:52:10
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853987
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
KC-135 tankers will be there, too.
Over Poland or the Black Sea?
Poland, almost 100% certain.
Black Sea – Probably, but not getting terribly close to northern or north-eastern shores.
Quite possibly over NATO members Bulgaria and Romania, but i couldn’t say how effective E-3 and E-8 coverage would be at those distances. Possibly better than i imagine.
Tankers over Poland and Romania for the majority of the war, so one could assume that is where the EWACS are.
https://www.flightradar24.com/LAGR223/2af64b7e
https://www.flightradar24.com/LAGR132/2af6d275
Date: 28/02/2022 12:00:09
From: Michael V
ID: 1853991
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:

so what the fuck is this then, it’s verging on unbelievable but it kind of helps the whole thing make sense
it’s as if their armed forces were told that they really are there for peacekeeping, to roll on in and be a friendly reassuring presence for stability, their Ukraine brothers need them to help out a bit and will welcome them with open arms
not just an expansionist fantasy, but a historical one
guess its risky when your agents don’t have ground truth
I suspect that might be true, or close to it.
Date: 28/02/2022 12:03:40
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853992
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
It is certainly ending up costly for the Russians in both lives and hardware. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians have done a surprising amount of damage with a handful of “cheap” drones.
Date: 28/02/2022 12:04:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853993
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:

so what the fuck is this then, it’s verging on unbelievable but it kind of helps the whole thing make sense
it’s as if their armed forces were told that they really are there for peacekeeping, to roll on in and be a friendly reassuring presence for stability, their Ukraine brothers need them to help out a bit and will welcome them with open arms
not just an expansionist fantasy, but a historical one
guess its risky when your agents don’t have ground truth
I suspect that might be true, or close to it.
I was wondering what these poor sods have been told.
That they’re there as a ‘peacekeeping’ force to keep the separatist ‘hotheads’ from going too far , and are welcome to the Ukrainians?
That they’re on some sort of joint exercise with the Ukrainians?
That the damage and casualties they’ve taken (if they’re aware of it) are the acts of ‘extremist’ Ukrainians militias, and not representative of the country as a whole?
Who knows?
Date: 28/02/2022 12:05:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853994
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Cymek said:
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
Putin’s war is not going Putin’s way.
What needs to happen now is punish Russia’s top 50 -100 rich because Putin has 50 percent of their money.
That’s how he has hidden it.
I would not be surprised if Putins last thoughts were along the lines of “et tu Oleg?”.
Date: 28/02/2022 12:09:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1853995
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
I would not be surprised if Putins last thoughts were along the lines of “et tu Oleg?”.
I suggest that removal of Putin is unlikely, because the people at the top have their niches and arrangements quite nicely set, thank you, and it’s better to deal with a Devil you know than to start negotiating all over again with a new one.
Putin’s biggest worry might be loss of ‘face’. If he can’t pull off the Ukrainian take-over, it’s not going to help his strong-man image at all, and his ‘oligarchs’ and ‘kleptocrats’ might get a bit more bolshie, so to speak, and seek to reduce his slice of their various pies.
Date: 28/02/2022 12:09:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1853996
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
so what the fuck is this then, it’s verging on unbelievable but it kind of helps the whole thing make sense
it’s as if their armed forces were told that they really are there for peacekeeping, to roll on in and be a friendly reassuring presence for stability, their Ukraine brothers need them to help out a bit and will welcome them with open arms
not just an expansionist fantasy, but a historical one
guess its risky when your agents don’t have ground truth
I suspect that might be true, or close to it.
I was wondering what these poor sods have been told.
That they’re there as a ‘peacekeeping’ force to keep the separatist ‘hotheads’ from going too far , and are welcome to the Ukrainians?
That they’re on some sort of joint exercise with the Ukrainians?
That the damage and casualties they’ve taken (if they’re aware of it) are the acts of ‘extremist’ Ukrainians militias, and not representative of the country as a whole?
Who knows?
They may well have been told that the Ukraine government was committing genocide and that the general populace would welcome them with open arms and flowers. There would likely be small pockets of resistance, but for the most part everything would be smiles and flowers.
Date: 28/02/2022 12:19:35
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1853997
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This is a strange one – the RAF are doing a little teasing by the looks.
https://www.flightradar24.com/RRR6424/2af6f124
Date: 28/02/2022 12:41:24
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1854004
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Cymek said:
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
It is certainly ending up costly for the Russians in both lives and hardware. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians have done a surprising amount of damage with a handful of “cheap” drones.
the (modern) shoulder mounted anti-tank systems that they have received from Europe I think have also made quite a significant difference it seems
Date: 28/02/2022 12:43:41
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1854007
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
was listening to the ABC daily podcast today and they were speaking with a Ukrainian journalist .. it appears there have been Russian agents in Kyiv for months now.. which suggests this operation has been in the works for quite a long time.. which isn’t particularly surprising I suppose.
Date: 28/02/2022 12:49:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854014
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 12:50:20
From: dv
ID: 1854016
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
This is why it was so weird and sad for Pompeo to be praising Putin for his strategic clarity and intelligence …
This is a damn fool move and the best case scenario is that Russia gets another drawn out Afghanistan nightmare except in this case the enemy has full materiel and technical support from NATO. Just a drip drip drip of bodybags and the sound of rubls pissing down the drain, for no actual benefit.
Date: 28/02/2022 12:51:48
From: buffy
ID: 1854019
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
speaking of misinformation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-28/ukraine-border-guard-snake-island-russia-attack/100867150
You just beat me to posting that. Truth is going to be difficult to sift out.
Date: 28/02/2022 13:07:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854035
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Just a drip drip drip of bodybags and the sound of rubls pissing down the drain, for no actual benefit.
A referendum in Belarus on Sunday approved a new constitution ditching the country’s non-nuclear status at a time when the former Soviet republic has become a launch pad for Russian troops invading Ukraine, Russian news agencies said.
Date: 28/02/2022 13:28:37
From: Cymek
ID: 1854042
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Cymek said:
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
This is why it was so weird and sad for Pompeo to be praising Putin for his strategic clarity and intelligence …
This is a damn fool move and the best case scenario is that Russia gets another drawn out Afghanistan nightmare except in this case the enemy has full materiel and technical support from NATO. Just a drip drip drip of bodybags and the sound of rubls pissing down the drain, for no actual benefit.
I suppose a low percentage worry is Putin authorises nuclear weapons to be used either as battlefield tactics or spite.
I wonder what sort of countermeasures the Russians have to prevent a mad president using them
Date: 28/02/2022 13:32:57
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854043
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
Cymek said:
Interesting that modern warfare has almost reached the point were its too expense to partake in.
This invasion must be costing the Russians a fortune and could be all for nothing, they could win but not win as occupiers have a rough time of it.
This is why it was so weird and sad for Pompeo to be praising Putin for his strategic clarity and intelligence …
This is a damn fool move and the best case scenario is that Russia gets another drawn out Afghanistan nightmare except in this case the enemy has full materiel and technical support from NATO. Just a drip drip drip of bodybags and the sound of rubls pissing down the drain, for no actual benefit.
I suppose a low percentage worry is Putin authorises nuclear weapons to be used either as battlefield tactics or spite.
I wonder what sort of countermeasures the Russians have to prevent a mad president using them
If they were trying to fight an enemy that was over there it might be different. Nuking the food bowl you want that is next door is less likely.
Date: 28/02/2022 13:40:02
From: dv
ID: 1854047
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It’s always the innocent who suffer the most

Date: 28/02/2022 13:40:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854049
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
It’s always the innocent who suffer the most

That’s nice.
Date: 28/02/2022 13:50:25
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1854060
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Could it be possible that Putin believed his own propaganda?
Date: 28/02/2022 13:52:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854061
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Could it be possible that Putin believed his own propaganda?
I’d say you are onto something here.
Date: 28/02/2022 13:54:38
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854062
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I approve.

Date: 28/02/2022 13:56:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854063
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
PermeateFree said:
Could it be possible that Putin believed his own propaganda?
I’d say you are onto something here.
we mean, 2021 Democrats stole the election
then, 2022 Nazis stole Ukraine
what, 2023 genius
Date: 28/02/2022 13:58:45
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854065
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
It’s always the innocent who suffer the most

That’s nice.
Musk Must Be Shitting Itself
Date: 28/02/2022 13:59:32
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854066
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Cymek said:
dv said:
This is why it was so weird and sad for Pompeo to be praising Putin for his strategic clarity and intelligence …
This is a damn fool move and the best case scenario is that Russia gets another drawn out Afghanistan nightmare except in this case the enemy has full materiel and technical support from NATO. Just a drip drip drip of bodybags and the sound of rubls pissing down the drain, for no actual benefit.
I suppose a low percentage worry is Putin authorises nuclear weapons to be used either as battlefield tactics or spite.
I wonder what sort of countermeasures the Russians have to prevent a mad president using them
If they were trying to fight an enemy that was over there it might be different. Nuking the food bowl you want that is next door is less likely.
maybe he means a MAD president
Date: 28/02/2022 14:01:26
From: Cymek
ID: 1854067
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
PermeateFree said:
Could it be possible that Putin believed his own propaganda?
I’d say you are onto something here.
we mean, 2021 Democrats stole the election
then, 2022 Nazis stole Ukraine
what, 2023 genius
It’s even more astonishing that they act like the people they accuse but don’t get it.
Date: 28/02/2022 14:03:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1854068
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
sarahs mum said:
Cymek said:
I suppose a low percentage worry is Putin authorises nuclear weapons to be used either as battlefield tactics or spite.
I wonder what sort of countermeasures the Russians have to prevent a mad president using them
If they were trying to fight an enemy that was over there it might be different. Nuking the food bowl you want that is next door is less likely.
maybe he means a MAD president
That as well but a worry is a person in power that wants the world to burn if they lose.
Date: 28/02/2022 14:05:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854071
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
maybe he means a MAD president
That as well but a worry is a person in power that wants the world to burn if they lose.
we mean if his goal is extreme long range strategy and disruptive radicalisation seeded far and wide then all of this really is just a side skirmish
for
As part of her research, she asked foreign fighters whom they saw as their enemy. “One person’s response was communists, homosexuals and paedophiles,” she said. “Which I thought was quite telling because I expected him to say ‘Russians’ or ‘separatists’, but they really view it through this ideological lens.”
Date: 28/02/2022 14:06:49
From: Michael V
ID: 1854072
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Could it be possible that Putin believed his own propaganda?
Yes.
Date: 28/02/2022 14:18:37
From: dv
ID: 1854074
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Mitt Romney says Americans who support Putin are ‘almost treasonous’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/mitt-romney-ukraine-treason-tucker-carlson-b2024408.html
Date: 28/02/2022 14:20:29
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854075
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In interesting developments, Putin seems to have had a reaction to nuke threats.
Apart from a RAF transporter heading home to England and a small passenger aircraft flying from Istanbul to Georgia, there are no non-private/commercial transponders around the Ukraine – no blackhawks, no mid-air refuellers, no nothing.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
Date: 28/02/2022 14:39:02
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854079
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
In interesting developments, Putin seems to have had a reaction to nuke threats.
Apart from a RAF transporter heading home to England and a small passenger aircraft flying from Istanbul to Georgia, there are no non-private/commercial transponders around the Ukraine – no blackhawks, no mid-air refuellers, no nothing.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
I doubt it’d ever happen over this relatively small war, but it does appear to be a worry.
Date: 28/02/2022 14:40:13
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854080
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
In interesting developments, Putin seems to have had a reaction to his nuke threats.
Apart from a RAF transporter heading home to England and a small passenger aircraft flying from Istanbul to Georgia, there are no non-private/commercial transponders around the Ukraine – no blackhawks, no mid-air refuellers, no nothing.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
…and lots of DHL and other cargo activity around Leipzig.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:04:28
From: dv
ID: 1854086
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ABC NEWS (the US version) gave a little primer on the situation. They started with “Americans first heard of President Zelensky when it came to light that the Trump administration had tried to extract …” etc
This seems like a grim and glib assessment. Surely at least some Americans keep track of international news.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:09:01
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854089
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:11:33
From: dv
ID: 1854091
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Estimated number of refugees into Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Moldova, Romania so far is 442000
Date: 28/02/2022 15:13:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1854092
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Estimated number of refugees into Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Moldova, Romania so far is 442000
The logistics of caring for that many people is huge and it would likely not be the greatest either
Date: 28/02/2022 15:18:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854093
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
So, what’s the largest plane in service now? Back to the C-5 Galaxies?
Date: 28/02/2022 15:21:53
From: dv
ID: 1854094
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
President Biden is requesting an additional 6.5 billion USD to support efforts related to the Ukraine crisis. Half of this will be humanitarian aid for refugees, and half will be military (both in proving equipment to Ukraine, and supporting the increased US troop presence in frontline NATO countries.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:22:52
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1854095
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
Says it can only carry 6 passengers.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:22:57
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854096
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
So, what’s the largest plane in service now? Back to the C-5 Galaxies?
A380.
Or the Straolaunch plane, but it’s only flown twice and so is still being tested.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:24:11
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854097
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
So, what’s the largest plane in service now? Back to the C-5 Galaxies?
A380.
Or the Straolaunch plane, but it’s only flown twice and so is still being tested.
Stratolaunch ….

Date: 28/02/2022 15:24:26
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854098
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
Says it can only carry 6 passengers.
It’s a freighter.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:27:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854099
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
PermeateFree said:
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
Says it can only carry 6 passengers.
It’s a freighter.
Unless you’re a people-smuggler…
Date: 28/02/2022 15:30:24
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854100
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
PermeateFree said:
Says it can only carry 6 passengers.
It’s a freighter.
Unless you’re a people-smuggler…
Some rough number show that it could lift a bit over 3,200 people in one go.
Date: 28/02/2022 15:33:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854102
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
It’s a freighter.
Unless you’re a people-smuggler…
Some rough number show that it could lift a bit over 3,200 people in one go.
not now, it cant.:(
Date: 28/02/2022 15:34:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854103
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
So, what’s the largest plane in service now? Back to the C-5 Galaxies?
Like this one inbound?
https://www.flightradar24.com/multiview/RCH851/2af7033a
Date: 28/02/2022 15:45:04
From: dv
ID: 1854105
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 15:52:27
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854108
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Ruskies go home”

Date: 28/02/2022 15:54:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854109
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
“Ruskies go home”

Probably worried that he left the iron on.
Date: 28/02/2022 16:03:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1854110
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
PermeateFree said:
Spiny Norman said:
For those that know the huge aircraft, the only flying Antonov AN-225 has been destroyed in an attack on the airport it was being serviced at. :(
There is the 2nd airframe that can be made airworthy but it’d take a very substantial investment and a few years I’d guess.
Says it can only carry 6 passengers.
It’s a freighter.
Just thought if funny that such a large aircraft could only carry 6 passengers.
Date: 28/02/2022 16:06:32
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1854111
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Spiny Norman said:
PermeateFree said:
Says it can only carry 6 passengers.
It’s a freighter.
Just thought if funny that such a large aircraft could only carry 6 passengers.
Cruising speed: 800 km/h
Length: 84 m
Maiden flight: 21 Dec 1988
Maximum speed: 850 km/h
Passengers: 6
Range: 15,400 km
Date: 28/02/2022 16:18:57
From: Tamb
ID: 1854112
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
PermeateFree said:
Spiny Norman said:
It’s a freighter.
Just thought if funny that such a large aircraft could only carry 6 passengers.
Cruising speed: 800 km/h
Length: 84 m
Maiden flight: 21 Dec 1988
Maximum speed: 850 km/h
Passengers: 6
Range: 15,400 km
The Super Guppie
Date: 28/02/2022 16:27:54
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854115
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Spiny Norman said:
PermeateFree said:
Says it can only carry 6 passengers.
It’s a freighter.
Just thought if funny that such a large aircraft could only carry 6 passengers.
Like any freight vehicle, you can always pack some people in, with varying degrees of comfort and safety.
But, as its primary purpose is freight, it wasn’t going to have a lot of passenger equipment. You can easily find recent video of Afghan refugees packed into ‘freight’ aircraft which were clearly not fitted for passenger carrying.
Some, both military and civil, can be fitted with passenger equipment,and that too varies in its quality/comfort. It might just be webbing sling seat, or it could be ‘palletised’ rows of standard airline seats that can be quickly loaded in and secured to the freight fastenings.
The six ‘passengers’ that the AN-225 would have had facilities for were most likely another shift of pilots, and a mechanic or two, or maybe a ‘deadhead’ – a company employee being transported somewhere.
Date: 28/02/2022 16:35:15
From: dv
ID: 1854116
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
PermeateFree said:
Spiny Norman said:
It’s a freighter.
Just thought if funny that such a large aircraft could only carry 6 passengers.
Like any freight vehicle, you can always pack some people in, with varying degrees of comfort and safety.
But, as its primary purpose is freight, it wasn’t going to have a lot of passenger equipment. You can easily find recent video of Afghan refugees packed into ‘freight’ aircraft which were clearly not fitted for passenger carrying.
Some, both military and civil, can be fitted with passenger equipment,and that too varies in its quality/comfort. It might just be webbing sling seat, or it could be ‘palletised’ rows of standard airline seats that can be quickly loaded in and secured to the freight fastenings.
The six ‘passengers’ that the AN-225 would have had facilities for were most likely another shift of pilots, and a mechanic or two, or maybe a ‘deadhead’ – a company employee being transported somewhere.
As you probably know, the greatest number of people ever carried by a plane was when an El Al 747 carried about 1088 people during Operation Solomon in 1991. The 747 was in a freighter config with no seats.
Date: 28/02/2022 16:48:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854121
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Here’s a report from the Guardian’s diplomatic editor, Patrick Wintour, on how the phone has become the Ukrainian president’s most effective weapon.
In a string of phone calls from a besieged Kyiv, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has persuaded the west to agree to a set of sanctions against Russia that were inconceivable a week ago.
Sensing how European public opinion is responding to the bravery of his people, Zelenskiy has been constantly on the phone to western leaders, using his Twitter feed to cajole, encourage, scold and praise his allies. In the process, sanctions regarded as unthinkable a week ago have become a moral baseline. The pace at which the west has been agreeing to the new sanctions has also left the lawyers, officials and bankers gasping for air, officials admit, as they work under severe pressure to turn headlines into reality.
One leader’s office said: “We are in awe of him. He may not eventually be able to save Ukraine, or change Russia, but he is changing Europe.”
The phone has become the Ukrainian president’s most effective weapon
Analysis: Zelenskiy has managed to achieve an unheard-of range of sanctions against Russia thanks to a tireless round of calls to allies
Date: 28/02/2022 16:53:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854123
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/t2sjt2/update_from_president_zelenskiy_regarding_belarus/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
“Mirya” confirmed destroyed.
Date: 28/02/2022 17:00:37
From: dv
ID: 1854124
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Fedex and UPS have ended all deliveries to Russia and Belarus
Date: 28/02/2022 17:05:06
From: Cymek
ID: 1854125
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Fedex and UPS have ended all deliveries to Russia and Belarus
Some places have removed Russian Wodka from shops
Date: 28/02/2022 17:07:23
From: Neophyte
ID: 1854126
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
Fedex and UPS have ended all deliveries to Russia and Belarus
Some places have removed Russian Wodka from shops
Just don’t call it Freedom Wodka
Date: 28/02/2022 17:10:49
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854127
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
Date: 28/02/2022 17:13:55
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854128
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
Mine now, not yours anymore.
Date: 28/02/2022 17:18:04
From: Michael V
ID: 1854132
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
:)
Date: 28/02/2022 17:29:16
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854133
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Here’s a report from the Guardian’s diplomatic editor, Patrick Wintour, on how the phone has become the Ukrainian president’s most effective weapon.
In a string of phone calls from a besieged Kyiv, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has persuaded the west to agree to a set of sanctions against Russia that were inconceivable a week ago.
Sensing how European public opinion is responding to the bravery of his people, Zelenskiy has been constantly on the phone to western leaders, using his Twitter feed to cajole, encourage, scold and praise his allies. In the process, sanctions regarded as unthinkable a week ago have become a moral baseline. The pace at which the west has been agreeing to the new sanctions has also left the lawyers, officials and bankers gasping for air, officials admit, as they work under severe pressure to turn headlines into reality.
One leader’s office said: “We are in awe of him. He may not eventually be able to save Ukraine, or change Russia, but he is changing Europe.”
The phone has become the Ukrainian president’s most effective weapon
Analysis: Zelenskiy has managed to achieve an unheard-of range of sanctions against Russia thanks to a tireless round of calls to allies
Bloody awesome.
Date: 28/02/2022 17:30:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854134
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
Unfortunately it was the other way around, soldiers stealing a tractor to tow a broken-down BMP.
Date: 28/02/2022 17:44:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854144
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
so the most pandemic prepared country in 2019 gets fucked in 2020 and ongoing
the most battle ready military in 2021 gets routed in 2022 and we’re about to see what happens
the most climate resilient country in 2022 then or what next
Date: 28/02/2022 17:46:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1854146
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
so the most pandemic prepared country in 2019 gets fucked in 2020 and ongoing
the most battle ready military in 2021 gets routed in 2022 and we’re about to see what happens
the most climate resilient country in 2022 then or what next
Humanity stumbling from one crisis to the next, most of our own making
Date: 28/02/2022 17:51:02
From: dv
ID: 1854147
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’m watching Olaf’s address to the Bundestag
Date: 28/02/2022 17:53:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854149
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
so the most pandemic prepared country in 2019 gets fucked in 2020 and ongoing
the most battle ready military in 2021 gets routed in 2022 and we’re about to see what happens
the most climate resilient country in 2022 then or what next
The Russian military aren’t routed, sadly.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:00:51
From: dv
ID: 1854152
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
Unfortunately it was the other way around, soldiers stealing a tractor to tow a broken-down BMP.
Some eagle-eyed buzzkills have pointed out that a Z has been painted on the tractor indicating Russian National Guard
Date: 28/02/2022 18:01:18
From: dv
ID: 1854153
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I’m watching Olaf’s address to the Bundestag
Germany will build two large new LNG terminals
Date: 28/02/2022 18:03:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1854154
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
Please let this be real…
https://twitter.com/OSICnick/status/1498022940759240717
so the most pandemic prepared country in 2019 gets fucked in 2020 and ongoing
the most battle ready military in 2021 gets routed in 2022 and we’re about to see what happens
the most climate resilient country in 2022 then or what next
The Russian military aren’t routed, sadly.
Russia and the USA both seem militarily lacking when it comes to taking on anyone other than a bunch of half arsed mountain boys.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:05:31
From: Cymek
ID: 1854155
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
dv said:
I’m watching Olaf’s address to the Bundestag
Germany will build two large new LNG terminals
It’s quite astonishing Europe put itself in the position of being hugely dependent on Russian energy sources, I mean c’mon what did they think would happen.
Putin “You European pig dogs disagree with me, off goes your gas”
Date: 28/02/2022 18:25:25
From: dv
ID: 1854161
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:32:39
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854164
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Be interesting to see how the peace talks go.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:35:58
From: Cymek
ID: 1854165
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Be interesting to see how the peace talks go.
Bad and Hawkeye will be upset and get drunk
Date: 28/02/2022 18:38:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1854169
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Talk of NATO expansion being at fault but really what does Russia have to offer as an alternative.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:39:10
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854170
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Be interesting to see how the peace talks go.
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:41:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1854172
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Be interesting to see how the peace talks go.
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Date: 28/02/2022 18:42:59
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854173
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Be interesting to see how the peace talks go.
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Ethel is unready.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:43:48
From: Cymek
ID: 1854174
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Be interesting to see how the peace talks go.
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat
Date: 28/02/2022 18:44:13
From: Cymek
ID: 1854175
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Ethel is unready.
Damn, top radar jammer that women
Date: 28/02/2022 18:47:51
From: dv
ID: 1854177
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat

Date: 28/02/2022 18:51:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854178
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat
Some of the Russian prisoners have said their commanders confiscated their phones prior to moving in.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:53:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854180
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Cymek said:
Cymek said:
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat
Some of the Russian prisoners have said their commanders confiscated their phones prior to moving in.
…and their ID papers as well. Presumably to stop the Ukrainians from contacting their families if they’re captured or killed.
Date: 28/02/2022 18:59:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854182
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Assuming 100m between vehicles, that’s only 50 pieces of equipment.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:01:45
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1854183
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
An old cartoon of mine, but topical for two reasons right now.
!
!
Date: 28/02/2022 19:02:23
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854184
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Cymek said:
Cymek said:
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat
Some of the Russian prisoners have said their commanders confiscated their phones prior to moving in.
A hundred phones all at the one place would do it.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:03:37
From: Kingy
ID: 1854185
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
What’s also going to be interesting is if Russia has succeeded in obtaining air superiority or whether US and Nato have blunted that with electronic jamming etc, but we may never know probably.
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat
I was reading about that yesterday. The soldiers normally don’t have their phones on, but the civilians that get caught in the traffic jams do, and that is what shows up.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:06:04
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854186
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Cymek said:
Cymek said:
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat
I was reading about that yesterday. The soldiers normally don’t have their phones on, but the civilians that get caught in the traffic jams do, and that is what shows up.
Just having a look at the area with Google Maps and can’t see any road traffic anywhere in the Ukraine. But there’s huge traffic jams around Moscow.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:11:06
From: Michael V
ID: 1854187
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Cymek said:
Cymek said:
Rumour is Ethel Merman was bought out of retirement
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat

I’ve tried since you posted it, but I still don’t get it. Could you please explain?
Date: 28/02/2022 19:13:54
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1854188
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Be interesting to see how the peace talks go.
indeed
Date: 28/02/2022 19:16:00
From: dv
ID: 1854190
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Assuming 100m between vehicles, that’s only 50 pieces of equipment.
Why would you assume that?
The pics seem to show the distance between the vehicles is slightly less than the length of them. If they are anything like the most common Russian tank then they are about 9 metres in length, so this would be about 300 tanks.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:18:29
From: dv
ID: 1854192
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
dv said:
Cymek said:
Was reading how Google maps was aware of something going on before it was official as big traffic jam in downtown Ukraine.
Would be interesting if soldiers were tracked via phones, imagine if you could turn them on and see were they were located.
Wonder if they carry them on person in combat

I’ve tried since you posted it, but I still don’t get it. Could you please explain?
That’s a merman, ie a male equivalent of a mermaid. Specifically it is Zoolander dressed as a merman for an advertisement in the popular movie Zoolander but that detail is not very relevant.
The functional group attached to it is the ethyl group. For comparison, ethyl chloride has the structure CH3 – CH2 – Cl
Therefore this would represent ethyl merman, tying it back to the original reference.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:21:42
From: Michael V
ID: 1854194
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Michael V said:
dv said:

I’ve tried since you posted it, but I still don’t get it. Could you please explain?
That’s a merman, ie a male equivalent of a mermaid. Specifically it is Zoolander dressed as a merman for an advertisement in the popular movie Zoolander but that detail is not very relevant.
The functional group attached to it is the ethyl group. For comparison, ethyl chloride has the structure CH3 – CH2 – Cl
Therefore this would represent ethyl merman, tying it back to the original reference.
OK., Thanks I get it now.
:)
I tried OH, CL, F, etc. I just didn’t see the merman link.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:23:37
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854195
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainians don’t appear to be hitting those columns from the air any more, or at least there’s been no mention of it.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:26:17
From: dv
ID: 1854196
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I wonder where they are staging their air operations from now.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:32:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854197
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
dv said:
Michael V said:
I’ve tried since you posted it, but I still don’t get it. Could you please explain?
That’s a merman, ie a male equivalent of a mermaid. Specifically it is Zoolander dressed as a merman for an advertisement in the popular movie Zoolander but that detail is not very relevant.
The functional group attached to it is the ethyl group. For comparison, ethyl chloride has the structure CH3 – CH2 – Cl
Therefore this would represent ethyl merman, tying it back to the original reference.
OK., Thanks I get it now.
:)
I tried OH, CL, F, etc. I just didn’t see the merman link.
yeah you thought that was clever CH3CH2CH2CH2- go 2 better and more obscure as well
except it doesn’t quite work because we use we
Date: 28/02/2022 19:32:28
From: Kingy
ID: 1854198
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Dark Orange said:
dv said:
satellite images show a “5 km convoy” of heavy vehicles heading south from the Belarus border.
Assuming 100m between vehicles, that’s only 50 pieces of equipment.
Why would you assume that?
The pics seem to show the distance between the vehicles is slightly less than the length of them. If they are anything like the most common Russian tank then they are about 9 metres in length, so this would be about 300 tanks.

Date: 28/02/2022 19:32:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854199
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I wonder where they are staging their air operations from now.
They may have run out of air operations by now.
There was supposedly one Ukrainian Fulcrum still in action, nicknamed The Ghost of Kyiv and responsible for many downed Russian fighters, but it may just be a morale-boosting myth.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:35:25
From: dv
ID: 1854200
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
Dark Orange said:
Assuming 100m between vehicles, that’s only 50 pieces of equipment.
Why would you assume that?
The pics seem to show the distance between the vehicles is slightly less than the length of them. If they are anything like the most common Russian tank then they are about 9 metres in length, so this would be about 300 tanks.

Going by that, I guess more like 400.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:37:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854201
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kingy said:
dv said:
Why would you assume that?
The pics seem to show the distance between the vehicles is slightly less than the length of them. If they are anything like the most common Russian tank then they are about 9 metres in length, so this would be about 300 tanks.

Going by that, I guess more like 400.
Those vehicles are probably parked, not moving.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:39:55
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854202
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Kingy said:

Going by that, I guess more like 400.
Those vehicles are probably parked, not moving.
It’s part of the long line of vehicles on the route to Kyiv, awaiting orders to move in.
Date: 28/02/2022 19:45:28
From: dv
ID: 1854203
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Going by that, I guess more like 400.
Those vehicles are probably parked, not moving.
It’s part of the long line of vehicles on the route to Kyiv, awaiting orders to move in.
Well they just got 500 antitank weapons from Germany so if they have 100% hit rate it should be fine…
Date: 28/02/2022 20:23:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854207
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
Those vehicles are probably parked, not moving.
It’s part of the long line of vehicles on the route to Kyiv, awaiting orders to move in.
Well they just got 500 antitank weapons from Germany so if they have 100% hit rate it should be fine…
You can rest assured the Russians in those vehicles are dreading the order to move in.
But the fact that they’re happy to park in such a close and exposed way shows they’re not worried about aerial attack while they wait.
Date: 28/02/2022 20:26:44
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854208
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s part of the long line of vehicles on the route to Kyiv, awaiting orders to move in.
Well they just got 500 antitank weapons from Germany so if they have 100% hit rate it should be fine…
You can rest assured the Russians in those vehicles are dreading the order to move in.
But the fact that they’re happy to park in such a close and exposed way shows they’re not worried about aerial attack while they wait.
Yep, they’d make for an excellent cluster bomb opportunity.
Date: 28/02/2022 20:39:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854211
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Well they just got 500 antitank weapons from Germany so if they have 100% hit rate it should be fine…
You can rest assured the Russians in those vehicles are dreading the order to move in.
But the fact that they’re happy to park in such a close and exposed way shows they’re not worried about aerial attack while they wait.
Yep, they’d make for an excellent cluster bomb opportunity.
right so actually all you need is a hit to front and back and the rest is well history
Date: 28/02/2022 20:55:56
From: party_pants
ID: 1854218
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It would be very helpful right now for some other countries to contribute fighter aircraft. Even hastily paint Ukraine markings on them.
Date: 28/02/2022 21:01:18
From: sibeen
ID: 1854220
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
It would be very helpful right now for some other countries to contribute fighter aircraft. Even hastily paint Ukraine markings on them.
Do they have pilots capable of flying any?
Date: 28/02/2022 21:04:04
From: party_pants
ID: 1854221
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
It would be very helpful right now for some other countries to contribute fighter aircraft. Even hastily paint Ukraine markings on them.
Do they have pilots capable of flying any?
NATO have hundreds of them. I’m talking about aircraft plus pilots.
Date: 28/02/2022 21:29:20
From: dv
ID: 1854227
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
It would be very helpful right now for some other countries to contribute fighter aircraft. Even hastily paint Ukraine markings on them.
Do they have pilots capable of flying any?
I mean Ukraine has dozens of such aircraft (or did before this invasion) so presumably they have pilots for them.
Date: 28/02/2022 21:39:12
From: Kingy
ID: 1854229
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
Dark Orange said:
Assuming 100m between vehicles, that’s only 50 pieces of equipment.
Why would you assume that?
The pics seem to show the distance between the vehicles is slightly less than the length of them. If they are anything like the most common Russian tank then they are about 9 metres in length, so this would be about 300 tanks.


Date: 28/02/2022 21:47:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854231
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
It would be very helpful right now for some other countries to contribute fighter aircraft. Even hastily paint Ukraine markings on them.
Do they have pilots capable of flying any?
NATO have hundreds of them. I’m talking about aircraft plus pilots.
A dodgy practice, certainly not unknown to the Russians.
There’s an abundance of evidence that Russians flew MiG-15s against UN forces in the Korean war, there’s unconfirmed but not necessarily dud reports that Russians flew MiG17s and MiG 21s on behalf of the North Vietnamese over North Vietnam, and they definitely provided crews for Egyptian-owned bombers and reconnaissance planes, and probably fighters, too, in decades gone by.
The embarrassment potential, if one of your pilots is shot down and captured, or his/her remains identified, is quite significant, so it’s not done lightly. At least by Western countries.
Date: 28/02/2022 21:58:50
From: party_pants
ID: 1854234
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
Do they have pilots capable of flying any?
NATO have hundreds of them. I’m talking about aircraft plus pilots.
A dodgy practice, certainly not unknown to the Russians.
There’s an abundance of evidence that Russians flew MiG-15s against UN forces in the Korean war, there’s unconfirmed but not necessarily dud reports that Russians flew MiG17s and MiG 21s on behalf of the North Vietnamese over North Vietnam, and they definitely provided crews for Egyptian-owned bombers and reconnaissance planes, and probably fighters, too, in decades gone by.
The embarrassment potential, if one of your pilots is shot down and captured, or his/her remains identified, is quite significant, so it’s not done lightly. At least by Western countries.
Quite. But it is important that Ukraine does not fall. A few squadrons of extra fighter aircraft could make a huge difference and tip the balance. It must not be a NATO contribution but nations acting individually. The embarassment potential of losing a pilot in combat is probably less than losing Ukraine and then admitting more could have been done.
Date: 28/02/2022 22:06:48
From: dv
ID: 1854236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
What if they quickly got US pilots Ukrainian citizenship …
Date: 28/02/2022 22:09:37
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1854237
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
What if they quickly got US pilots Ukrainian citizenship …
or even US pilots with dual citizenship? one being Ukrainian.
Date: 28/02/2022 22:14:59
From: party_pants
ID: 1854238
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Use Putin’s own style of euphemistic bullshit against him. Ukraine could invite foreign airforces to participate in “live firing exercises under simulated combat conditions”. Then send an official warning out to all nations not to fly any aircraft in the designated airspace in case they get accidentally shot down.
Date: 28/02/2022 22:15:27
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
There’s an interview with an Ukrainian arm chief on the ABC, he’s saying that Russia doesn’t have control of the air as their anti aircraft system is working a treat.
Date: 28/02/2022 22:16:57
From: party_pants
ID: 1854240
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s an interview with an Ukrainian arm chief on the ABC, he’s saying that Russia doesn’t have control of the air as their anti aircraft system is working a treat.
S400 system ?
Date: 28/02/2022 22:17:59
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854241
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s an interview with an Ukrainian arm chief on the ABC, he’s saying that Russia doesn’t have control of the air as their anti aircraft system is working a treat.
He was also saying Nato should instigate a no fly zone to the west of the country.
Date: 28/02/2022 22:19:02
From: Kingy
ID: 1854242
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Use Putin’s own style of euphemistic bullshit against him. Ukraine could invite foreign airforces to participate in “live firing exercises under simulated combat conditions”. Then send an official warning out to all nations not to fly any aircraft in the designated airspace in case they get accidentally shot down.
I like this. Probably needs workshopping with someone in the airforce, but yeah, worth a try.
Date: 28/02/2022 22:19:04
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854243
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s an interview with an Ukrainian arm chief on the ABC, he’s saying that Russia doesn’t have control of the air as their anti aircraft system is working a treat.
S400 system ?
Dunno.
Date: 28/02/2022 22:23:46
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1854246
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/02/2022 22:35:40
From: Michael V
ID: 1854248
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:

Nice one!
Date: 28/02/2022 22:37:47
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854250
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:

ripper.
Date: 28/02/2022 23:45:46
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854263
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
An interesting read.
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204
Date: 28/02/2022 23:59:20
From: Kingy
ID: 1854270
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-temporarily-disables-google-maps-live-traffic-data-ukraine-2022-02-28/?utm_source=reddit.com
Date: 1/03/2022 00:01:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1854273
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-temporarily-disables-google-maps-live-traffic-data-ukraine-2022-02-28/?utm_source=reddit.com
Is that a good of bad thing?
Date: 1/03/2022 00:11:30
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854275
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Kingy said:
https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-temporarily-disables-google-maps-live-traffic-data-ukraine-2022-02-28/?utm_source=reddit.com
Is that a good of bad thing?
Depends.
Date: 1/03/2022 00:12:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854276
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
What if they let Ukraine join NATO now?
Date: 1/03/2022 00:14:55
From: Kingy
ID: 1854277
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Alarming video from the western part of the Belarusian-Ukrainian border. A convoy of 38th Air Assault Brigade of the Belarusian army (not Russian) near Kobryn in Brest region. Most of the vehicles are marked with red squares”
https://twitter.com/KremlinTrolls/status/1498277263690842112
Player 3 has entered the game.
Date: 1/03/2022 00:16:24
From: party_pants
ID: 1854278
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
What if they let Ukraine join NATO now?
NATO rules prevent new members joining if they have existing border disputes.
Date: 1/03/2022 00:25:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854283
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
“Alarming video from the western part of the Belarusian-Ukrainian border. A convoy of 38th Air Assault Brigade of the Belarusian army (not Russian) near Kobryn in Brest region. Most of the vehicles are marked with red squares”
https://twitter.com/KremlinTrolls/status/1498277263690842112
Player 3 has entered the game.
I’d imagine the Belarusian army is even crappier than the Russian army, but it does mean more disposable fodder for the grinder.
Date: 1/03/2022 01:22:14
From: dv
ID: 1854292
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

The Moscow exchange decided not to open today but the rubl had a bad open
Date: 1/03/2022 02:13:12
From: Kingy
ID: 1854298
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Heroic President of Ukraine plays piano with his penis. Yes, seriously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_UWafVKjLw
Date: 1/03/2022 02:33:20
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854300
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The New York Times
1 min ·
Breaking News: Switzerland will freeze Russian assets, including those of President Vladimir Putin, setting aside its long tradition of neutrality. The country is a favorite destination for Russian money.
Date: 1/03/2022 02:34:50
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854301
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 1/03/2022 02:37:30
From: dv
ID: 1854302
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
The New York Times
1 min ·
Breaking News: Switzerland will freeze Russian assets, including those of President Vladimir Putin, setting aside its long tradition of neutrality. The country is a favorite destination for Russian money.
ffffuck
Date: 1/03/2022 02:39:52
From: dv
ID: 1854303
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine ambassador speaking at the UN, referring to Putin: “If he wants to kill himself, he doesn’t need to use the nuclear button, he just needs to do what the guy in the bunker did in 1945”
Date: 1/03/2022 02:43:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854304
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukraine ambassador speaking at the UN, referring to Putin: “If he wants to kill himself, he doesn’t need to use the nuclear button, he just needs to do what the guy in the bunker did in 1945”
What a great idea.
Date: 1/03/2022 02:45:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854305
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sarahs mum said:
The New York Times
1 min ·
Breaking News: Switzerland will freeze Russian assets, including those of President Vladimir Putin, setting aside its long tradition of neutrality. The country is a favorite destination for Russian money.
ffffuck
It is note worthy yes.
Date: 1/03/2022 02:50:03
From: dv
ID: 1854306
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Ukraine ambassador speaking at the UN, referring to Putin: “If he wants to kill himself, he doesn’t need to use the nuclear button, he just needs to do what the guy in the bunker did in 1945”
What a great idea.
Dude is not holding back. He’s saying that he doubts Russia is a legitimate member of the UN because nations were not asked to ratify it as a succesor state to the USSR. “Raise your hand if you voted for that? No? No one? Let me put my glasses on so I can see if someone has a hand up. “
Date: 1/03/2022 03:21:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854309
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
The New York Times
1 min ·
Breaking News: Switzerland will freeze Russian assets, including those of President Vladimir Putin, setting aside its long tradition of neutrality. The country is a favorite destination for Russian money.
“et tu, Sergi?”
Date: 1/03/2022 03:30:43
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854311
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Ukraine ambassador speaking at the UN, referring to Putin: “If he wants to kill himself, he doesn’t need to use the nuclear button, he just needs to do what the guy in the bunker did in 1945”
What a great idea.
Dude is not holding back. He’s saying that he doubts Russia is a legitimate member of the UN because nations were not asked to ratify it as a succesor state to the USSR. “Raise your hand if you voted for that? No? No one? Let me put my glasses on so I can see if someone has a hand up. “
Got a link?
Date: 1/03/2022 03:44:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854313
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Here’s what Poo tin had to say in 2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPR3iJhpleY
Date: 1/03/2022 07:00:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854315
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Here’s what Poo tin had to say in 2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPR3iJhpleY
That must have been before he went ga-ga.
Date: 1/03/2022 07:03:37
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854316
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The Moscow exchange decided not to open today but the rubl had a bad open
It could now be called ‘the RUBbLe’.
Date: 1/03/2022 07:12:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854318
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov, has appealed directly to Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, saying they would receive full amnesty and monetary compensation if they voluntarily laid down their weapons.
Good thinking, give them a few $US to surrender. Russian money is now worth less than Monopoly money.
Date: 1/03/2022 08:05:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854324
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
More Muscovite spies kicked out of US:
The US has ordered 12 Russian diplomats at the United Nations to leave by 7 March, reported Reuters.
At a news conference held by Vasily Nebenzya, Russia’s ambassador to the UN, Nebenzya took a phone call and confirmed shortly afterwards that 12 diplomats had been declared “persona non grata” by US authorities and instructed to leave by 7 March, according to the New York Times.
Date: 1/03/2022 08:17:52
From: Michael V
ID: 1854326
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
>Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov, has appealed directly to Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, saying they would receive full amnesty and monetary compensation if they voluntarily laid down their weapons.
Good thinking, give them a few $US to surrender. Russian money is now worth less than Monopoly money.
:)
Date: 1/03/2022 08:26:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854328
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
>Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov, has appealed directly to Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, saying they would receive full amnesty and monetary compensation if they voluntarily laid down their weapons.
Good thinking, give them a few $US to surrender. Russian money is now worth less than Monopoly money.
My ancestors were Irish mercenaries. Fight for anyone, for a price (Rule 1: don’t get killed. Dead mercenaries didn’t get paid.)
The idea of being paid to surrender would have appealed to them enormously.
Date: 1/03/2022 08:45:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854333
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
>Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov, has appealed directly to Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, saying they would receive full amnesty and monetary compensation if they voluntarily laid down their weapons.
Good thinking, give them a few $US to surrender. Russian money is now worth less than Monopoly money.
My ancestors were Irish mercenaries. Fight for anyone, for a price (Rule 1: don’t get killed. Dead mercenaries didn’t get paid.)
The idea of being paid to surrender would have appealed to them enormously.
so now even more Russians are signing up so they can do some sightseeing in Ukraine with all expenses paid
Date: 1/03/2022 08:47:53
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854334
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
>Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov, has appealed directly to Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, saying they would receive full amnesty and monetary compensation if they voluntarily laid down their weapons.
Good thinking, give them a few $US to surrender. Russian money is now worth less than Monopoly money.
My ancestors were Irish mercenaries. Fight for anyone, for a price (Rule 1: don’t get killed. Dead mercenaries didn’t get paid.)
The idea of being paid to surrender would have appealed to them enormously.
so now even more Russians are signing up so they can do some sightseeing in Ukraine with all expenses paid
Yeah, where’s the nearest Russian Army recruiting office? (Those Ukraine girls really knock me out.)
Date: 1/03/2022 08:48:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854335
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:

imagine the international outcry if a well armed middle eastern organisation holding an expanse of land, were to forcefully occupy more territory in the middle east while continuing to exchange rocket fire
Date: 1/03/2022 08:54:45
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854337
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:

which one is which
Date: 1/03/2022 09:01:03
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1854338
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
JudgeMental said:

which one is which
That is a question for your moral compass to decide.
Date: 1/03/2022 09:31:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854339
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
>Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov, has appealed directly to Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, saying they would receive full amnesty and monetary compensation if they voluntarily laid down their weapons.
Good thinking, give them a few $US to surrender. Russian money is now worth less than Monopoly money.
Maybe pay Russian soldiers to swap sides and join the Ukrainian army.
Date: 1/03/2022 09:40:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854340
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
>Ukraine’s defence minister, Oleksii Reznikov, has appealed directly to Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, saying they would receive full amnesty and monetary compensation if they voluntarily laid down their weapons.
Good thinking, give them a few $US to surrender. Russian money is now worth less than Monopoly money.
Maybe pay Russian soldiers to swap sides and join the Ukrainian army.
My predecessors would have done it. A better offer, OK, we’re off, nothing personal, just business.
Date: 1/03/2022 09:44:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854341
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Date: 1/03/2022 09:49:03
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1854342
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Where would you keep it though?
Date: 1/03/2022 09:50:37
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854343
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Where would you keep it though?
well, the tanks could be put into parks for kids to climb on…
Date: 1/03/2022 09:54:29
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854344
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Can I have an Su-57 please?
Date: 1/03/2022 09:57:27
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854345
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Can I have an Su-57 please?
There may be some assembly required.
Date: 1/03/2022 10:00:36
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854346
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Can I have an Su-57 please?
There may be some assembly required.
No, there’s at least half a dozen flying right now.
Date: 1/03/2022 10:08:06
From: esselte
ID: 1854347
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Where would you keep it though?
I keep my armies in my sleevies.
Date: 1/03/2022 10:19:35
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854349
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
Can I have an Su-57 please?
There may be some assembly required.
No, there’s at least half a dozen flying right now.
But for how long though?
Date: 1/03/2022 10:20:38
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854351
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
There may be some assembly required.
No, there’s at least half a dozen flying right now.
But for how long though?
They won’t be used in this combat, so I image they’ll be good for a couple of decades at least.
Date: 1/03/2022 10:24:32
From: Michael V
ID: 1854352
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
LOL
Date: 1/03/2022 10:25:10
From: Michael V
ID: 1854353
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Where would you keep it though?
I keep my armies in my sleevies.
:)
Date: 1/03/2022 10:30:34
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854356
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
No, there’s at least half a dozen flying right now.
But for how long though?
They won’t be used in this combat, so I image they’ll be good for a couple of decades at least.
Well, I suppose you can have one then.
But just the one mind you, and don’t you go annoying the neighbours with it.
Date: 1/03/2022 10:33:05
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1854358
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The news still seems confused. I can’t make head or tail of it.
From 3 hours ago.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
“Hostomel airport, to the north west of Kiev, has been the scene of fierce fighting and has changed hands multiple times in the past few days.”
That’s fair, airports are valid military targets. Russia is not getting it all its own way.
“saboteur groups on the city streets”
These would be pro-Russian Ukrainians most likely, rather than Russian commandos.
“Some analysts say overall progress by Russian troops has been slower than expected. But after the apparent pause in major operations over the weekend”
The Russian advance has taken the weekend off? Why?
“The day before, Russian forces breached Kharkiv and images emerged showing Ukrainian troops firing rocket propelled grenades on street corners and Russian troops, on foot, moving behind armoured vehicles. Later in the day, Ukrainian officials said the Russian attack had been repelled.”
“The Russian troops entered the city of Melitopol (north of Crimea) without resistance”.
“Ukrainian forces have thwarted an attempted amphibious landing by Russian troops in Odesa.”
It’s all very confusing.
Date: 1/03/2022 10:36:35
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854359
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
But for how long though?
They won’t be used in this combat, so I image they’ll be good for a couple of decades at least.
Well, I suppose you can have one then.
But just the one mind you, and don’t you go annoying the neighbours with it.
Yeah that’s not going to work very well.
Date: 1/03/2022 11:11:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854370
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
dv said:
roughbarked said:
What a great idea.
Dude is not holding back. He’s saying that he doubts Russia is a legitimate member of the UN because nations were not asked to ratify it as a succesor state to the USSR. “Raise your hand if you voted for that? No? No one? Let me put my glasses on so I can see if someone has a hand up. “
Got a link?
Found ‘em.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1498329367730077708?
“If wants to kill himself, he doesn’t need to use nuclear arsenal. He has to do what the guy in Berlin did in a bunker in May 1945.” — Sergiy Kyslytsya, Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Nations.
(The transcript doesn’t do the delivery justice)
https://www.facebook.com/1167515055/posts/10223836608640962/?d=n
“…Last September, my President said, while delivering his statement at the high-level segment of the 76th session of the General Assembly: “I understand that criticism of the UN is often heard. But we criticize ourselves.”
If we fail to respond now, we will face much more than criticism. We will face oblivion. It must not happen.
Now it is time to act. Time to help Ukraine, which is now paying the ultimate price for the freedom and security of itself and of the world.
If Ukraine does not survive, international peace will not survive. If Ukraine does not survive, the United Nations will not survive, have no illusions. If Ukraine does not survive, we cannot be surprised if democracy falls next. Now we can save Ukraine, save the United Nations, save democracy, and defend the values we believe in and that Ukrainians are fighting for and paying for with their lives.
The Russian delegate will speak shortly. Putin has done everything to delegitimize the Russian presence in the United Nations. But I wonder if the Russian Federation’s presence in the United Nations has ever been legitimate.
I wonder if this hall, this Assembly ever voted in accordance with paragraph 2 of Article 4 on the admission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations either in December 1991 or in January 1992 or at any time thereafter.
I want to ask the delegates whose countries voted for the admission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations, please, raise your hand if your country voted in the formal session of the GA in reply to the letter of Yeltsin in December24, 1991, when he told the UN that Russia would like to be the continuator state of the demised Soviet Union.
Anyone? Shall I put on my glasses? Maybe my vision fails me and I don’t see any hand raised. ontry? Noone voted for Russian membership?
I’ll leave you with that. And think about it when you listen to the Russian delegate.”
Date: 1/03/2022 11:34:04
From: Cymek
ID: 1854373
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Dark Orange said:
dv said:
Got a link?
Found ‘em.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1498329367730077708?
“If wants to kill himself, he doesn’t need to use nuclear arsenal. He has to do what the guy in Berlin did in a bunker in May 1945.” — Sergiy Kyslytsya, Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Nations.
(The transcript doesn’t do the delivery justice)
https://www.facebook.com/1167515055/posts/10223836608640962/?d=n
“…Last September, my President said, while delivering his statement at the high-level segment of the 76th session of the General Assembly: “I understand that criticism of the UN is often heard. But we criticize ourselves.”
If we fail to respond now, we will face much more than criticism. We will face oblivion. It must not happen.
Now it is time to act. Time to help Ukraine, which is now paying the ultimate price for the freedom and security of itself and of the world.
If Ukraine does not survive, international peace will not survive. If Ukraine does not survive, the United Nations will not survive, have no illusions. If Ukraine does not survive, we cannot be surprised if democracy falls next. Now we can save Ukraine, save the United Nations, save democracy, and defend the values we believe in and that Ukrainians are fighting for and paying for with their lives.
The Russian delegate will speak shortly. Putin has done everything to delegitimize the Russian presence in the United Nations. But I wonder if the Russian Federation’s presence in the United Nations has ever been legitimate.
I wonder if this hall, this Assembly ever voted in accordance with paragraph 2 of Article 4 on the admission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations either in December 1991 or in January 1992 or at any time thereafter.
I want to ask the delegates whose countries voted for the admission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations, please, raise your hand if your country voted in the formal session of the GA in reply to the letter of Yeltsin in December24, 1991, when he told the UN that Russia would like to be the continuator state of the demised Soviet Union.
Anyone? Shall I put on my glasses? Maybe my vision fails me and I don’t see any hand raised. ontry? Noone voted for Russian membership?
I’ll leave you with that. And think about it when you listen to the Russian delegate.”
The UN needs a shakeup, perhaps to start the security council needs rotating members not permanent ones who veto or abstain from voting when it’s not convenient for them.
Date: 1/03/2022 11:36:39
From: dv
ID: 1854374
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
The UN needs a shakeup, perhaps to start the security council needs rotating members not permanent ones who veto or abstain from voting when it’s not convenient for them.
Although it sounds like an appealing idea the fact is that the UN has to reflect the major powers.
Date: 1/03/2022 11:39:20
From: dv
ID: 1854375
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Turkey has officially labeled Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a war and says it will restrict some warships from passing through key waterways, in a move that experts said could potentially hinder some of Moscow’s military activities in the region.
On Thursday, Russian forces launched a land, sea and air assault on Ukraine in the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War Two.
Ukraine’s ambassador to Turkey Vasyl Bodnar went on local television last week and appealed for the government in Ankara to close its key straits to Russian warships under provisions of the 1936 Montreux Convention. Turkey said it could only do so if it officially recognized the conflict as a war, and on Sunday, that’s what it did.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his government would “use the authority given to our country by the Montreux Convention on ship traffic in the straits in a way that will prevent the crisis from escalating.”
While Erdogan said he considered “Russia’s attack on Ukraine unacceptable,” he also said Turkey would not abandon its ties with Russia or Ukraine.
The convention gives Turkey certain control over the passage of warships from the Dardanelles and Bosphorus Straits that connect the Aegean, Marmara, and Black Sea.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/middleeast/mideast-summary-02-28-2022-intl/index.html
Date: 1/03/2022 11:42:11
From: Cymek
ID: 1854376
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Cymek said:
The UN needs a shakeup, perhaps to start the security council needs rotating members not permanent ones who veto or abstain from voting when it’s not convenient for them.
Although it sounds like an appealing idea the fact is that the UN has to reflect the major powers.
I suppose but the nations most in need then miss out.
Perhaps power is redefined in human rights and quality of life and see who the major powers are.
Date: 1/03/2022 11:45:35
From: dv
ID: 1854377
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I have to admit, until I heard Kyslytsya say that, I was unaware of the controversy surrounding Russia’s accession to the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_the_United_Nations
Date: 1/03/2022 11:58:17
From: Kingy
ID: 1854378
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Turkey has officially labeled Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a war and says it will restrict some warships from passing through key waterways, in a move that experts said could potentially hinder some of Moscow’s military activities in the region.
On Thursday, Russian forces launched a land, sea and air assault on Ukraine in the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War Two.
Ukraine’s ambassador to Turkey Vasyl Bodnar went on local television last week and appealed for the government in Ankara to close its key straits to Russian warships under provisions of the 1936 Montreux Convention. Turkey said it could only do so if it officially recognized the conflict as a war, and on Sunday, that’s what it did.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his government would “use the authority given to our country by the Montreux Convention on ship traffic in the straits in a way that will prevent the crisis from escalating.”
While Erdogan said he considered “Russia’s attack on Ukraine unacceptable,” he also said Turkey would not abandon its ties with Russia or Ukraine.
The convention gives Turkey certain control over the passage of warships from the Dardanelles and Bosphorus Straits that connect the Aegean, Marmara, and Black Sea.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/middleeast/mideast-summary-02-28-2022-intl/index.html
What’s there to stop a Russian cruiser just sailing through anyway?
Date: 1/03/2022 12:01:01
From: Cymek
ID: 1854379
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
Turkey has officially labeled Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a war and says it will restrict some warships from passing through key waterways, in a move that experts said could potentially hinder some of Moscow’s military activities in the region.
On Thursday, Russian forces launched a land, sea and air assault on Ukraine in the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War Two.
Ukraine’s ambassador to Turkey Vasyl Bodnar went on local television last week and appealed for the government in Ankara to close its key straits to Russian warships under provisions of the 1936 Montreux Convention. Turkey said it could only do so if it officially recognized the conflict as a war, and on Sunday, that’s what it did.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his government would “use the authority given to our country by the Montreux Convention on ship traffic in the straits in a way that will prevent the crisis from escalating.”
While Erdogan said he considered “Russia’s attack on Ukraine unacceptable,” he also said Turkey would not abandon its ties with Russia or Ukraine.
The convention gives Turkey certain control over the passage of warships from the Dardanelles and Bosphorus Straits that connect the Aegean, Marmara, and Black Sea.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/middleeast/mideast-summary-02-28-2022-intl/index.html
What’s there to stop a Russian cruiser just sailing through anyway?
Missile attack ?
But yeah they could call the most likely bluff
Date: 1/03/2022 12:01:46
From: dv
ID: 1854380
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
Turkey has officially labeled Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a war and says it will restrict some warships from passing through key waterways, in a move that experts said could potentially hinder some of Moscow’s military activities in the region.
On Thursday, Russian forces launched a land, sea and air assault on Ukraine in the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War Two.
Ukraine’s ambassador to Turkey Vasyl Bodnar went on local television last week and appealed for the government in Ankara to close its key straits to Russian warships under provisions of the 1936 Montreux Convention. Turkey said it could only do so if it officially recognized the conflict as a war, and on Sunday, that’s what it did.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his government would “use the authority given to our country by the Montreux Convention on ship traffic in the straits in a way that will prevent the crisis from escalating.”
While Erdogan said he considered “Russia’s attack on Ukraine unacceptable,” he also said Turkey would not abandon its ties with Russia or Ukraine.
The convention gives Turkey certain control over the passage of warships from the Dardanelles and Bosphorus Straits that connect the Aegean, Marmara, and Black Sea.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/middleeast/mideast-summary-02-28-2022-intl/index.html
What’s there to stop a Russian cruiser just sailing through anyway?
The TSK I suppose
Date: 1/03/2022 12:02:48
From: dv
ID: 1854381
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
New satellite images from Maxar Technologies show the Russian military convoy that has reached the outskirts of Kyiv is even longer than it previously measured.
Maxar said late Monday the convoy is more than 40 miles long. Earlier Monday, Maxar said the convoy took up roughly 17 miles of roadway.
Maxar told CNN earlier Monday the large military convoy consisted of armored vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other logistical vehicles.
Maxar attributed the updated convoy length to additional satellite imagery they collected and analyzed. Maxar said data and imagery taken Monday shows the convoy stretches from the Antonov airbase — about 17 miles from Kyiv’s city center — to just north of Pribyrsk, Ukraine.
To put a point on how far away Pribyrsk is from the Ukrainian capital, the small town is closer to the Ukraine-Belarus border and the failed nuclear reactor at Chernobyl than to Kyiv.
Date: 1/03/2022 12:07:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854382
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Can I have an Su-57 please?
There may be some assembly required.
It’ll need a shitload of polystyrene cement.
Date: 1/03/2022 12:09:21
From: Kingy
ID: 1854383
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kingy said:
dv said:
Turkey has officially labeled Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a war and says it will restrict some warships from passing through key waterways, in a move that experts said could potentially hinder some of Moscow’s military activities in the region.
On Thursday, Russian forces launched a land, sea and air assault on Ukraine in the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War Two.
Ukraine’s ambassador to Turkey Vasyl Bodnar went on local television last week and appealed for the government in Ankara to close its key straits to Russian warships under provisions of the 1936 Montreux Convention. Turkey said it could only do so if it officially recognized the conflict as a war, and on Sunday, that’s what it did.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his government would “use the authority given to our country by the Montreux Convention on ship traffic in the straits in a way that will prevent the crisis from escalating.”
While Erdogan said he considered “Russia’s attack on Ukraine unacceptable,” he also said Turkey would not abandon its ties with Russia or Ukraine.
The convention gives Turkey certain control over the passage of warships from the Dardanelles and Bosphorus Straits that connect the Aegean, Marmara, and Black Sea.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/middleeast/mideast-summary-02-28-2022-intl/index.html
What’s there to stop a Russian cruiser just sailing through anyway?
The TSK I suppose
A disapproving mouth click?
Or is there another meaning of tsk?
Date: 1/03/2022 12:20:36
From: dv
ID: 1854384
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
Kingy said:
What’s there to stop a Russian cruiser just sailing through anyway?
The TSK I suppose
A disapproving mouth click?
Or is there another meaning of tsk?
Turkish armed forces
Date: 1/03/2022 12:25:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854385
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
New satellite images from Maxar Technologies show the Russian military convoy that has reached the outskirts of Kyiv is even longer than it previously measured.
Maxar said late Monday the convoy is more than 40 miles long. Earlier Monday, Maxar said the convoy took up roughly 17 miles of roadway.
Maxar told CNN earlier Monday the large military convoy consisted of armored vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other logistical vehicles.
Maxar attributed the updated convoy length to additional satellite imagery they collected and analyzed. Maxar said data and imagery taken Monday shows the convoy stretches from the Antonov airbase — about 17 miles from Kyiv’s city center — to just north of Pribyrsk, Ukraine.
To put a point on how far away Pribyrsk is from the Ukrainian capital, the small town is closer to the Ukraine-Belarus border and the failed nuclear reactor at Chernobyl than to Kyiv.
so all the failures and capitulations were a trick and ¿ this is the main putsch
Date: 1/03/2022 12:26:14
From: Cymek
ID: 1854386
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
New satellite images from Maxar Technologies show the Russian military convoy that has reached the outskirts of Kyiv is even longer than it previously measured.
Maxar said late Monday the convoy is more than 40 miles long. Earlier Monday, Maxar said the convoy took up roughly 17 miles of roadway.
Maxar told CNN earlier Monday the large military convoy consisted of armored vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other logistical vehicles.
Maxar attributed the updated convoy length to additional satellite imagery they collected and analyzed. Maxar said data and imagery taken Monday shows the convoy stretches from the Antonov airbase — about 17 miles from Kyiv’s city center — to just north of Pribyrsk, Ukraine.
To put a point on how far away Pribyrsk is from the Ukrainian capital, the small town is closer to the Ukraine-Belarus border and the failed nuclear reactor at Chernobyl than to Kyiv.
Ripe target if they had an airforce, imagine how angry Putin would be if they all blew up one after another because they are so close together.
Date: 1/03/2022 12:26:23
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854388
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I have to admit, until I heard Kyslytsya say that, I was unaware of the controversy surrounding Russia’s accession to the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_the_United_Nations
How does / does similar apply to Republic of Taiwan and the renegade People’s Republic of West Taiwan ¿
Date: 1/03/2022 12:27:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1854389
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
New satellite images from Maxar Technologies show the Russian military convoy that has reached the outskirts of Kyiv is even longer than it previously measured.
Maxar said late Monday the convoy is more than 40 miles long. Earlier Monday, Maxar said the convoy took up roughly 17 miles of roadway.
Maxar told CNN earlier Monday the large military convoy consisted of armored vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other logistical vehicles.
Maxar attributed the updated convoy length to additional satellite imagery they collected and analyzed. Maxar said data and imagery taken Monday shows the convoy stretches from the Antonov airbase — about 17 miles from Kyiv’s city center — to just north of Pribyrsk, Ukraine.
To put a point on how far away Pribyrsk is from the Ukrainian capital, the small town is closer to the Ukraine-Belarus border and the failed nuclear reactor at Chernobyl than to Kyiv.
so all the failures and capitulations were a trick and ¿ this is the main putsch
Perhaps most are beet, cabbage and vodka supplies
Date: 1/03/2022 12:29:15
From: dv
ID: 1854394
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
I have to admit, until I heard Kyslytsya say that, I was unaware of the controversy surrounding Russia’s accession to the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_the_United_Nations
How does / does similar apply to Republic of Taiwan and the renegade People’s Republic of West Taiwan ¿
Taiwan is not in the UN. Its seat was given to the PRC 50 years ago but in that case it was voted on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations
Date: 1/03/2022 12:30:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854395
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 1/03/2022 12:38:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854397
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
What Would A Populist Do

Date: 1/03/2022 12:40:27
From: Cymek
ID: 1854399
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
What Would A Populist Do

Should have done the same in regards to refugees from Afghanistan
Date: 1/03/2022 12:40:41
From: Kingy
ID: 1854400
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
alleged cluster bombing of residential park
https://twitter.com/gianfiorella/status/1498339002910343171
They’ve cluster bombed kindergardens and hospitals already, and plenty of residential areas. The evidence has already been handed to the Hague.
Date: 1/03/2022 12:43:27
From: Kingy
ID: 1854401
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
New satellite images from Maxar Technologies show the Russian military convoy that has reached the outskirts of Kyiv is even longer than it previously measured.
Maxar said late Monday the convoy is more than 40 miles long. Earlier Monday, Maxar said the convoy took up roughly 17 miles of roadway.
Maxar told CNN earlier Monday the large military convoy consisted of armored vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other logistical vehicles.
Maxar attributed the updated convoy length to additional satellite imagery they collected and analyzed. Maxar said data and imagery taken Monday shows the convoy stretches from the Antonov airbase — about 17 miles from Kyiv’s city center — to just north of Pribyrsk, Ukraine.
To put a point on how far away Pribyrsk is from the Ukrainian capital, the small town is closer to the Ukraine-Belarus border and the failed nuclear reactor at Chernobyl than to Kyiv.
so all the failures and capitulations were a trick and ¿ this is the main putsch
Perhaps most are beet, cabbage and vodka supplies
Maybe most are truckloads of rubles so that they can buy some bread.
Date: 1/03/2022 12:43:39
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854402
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
SCIENCE said:
alleged cluster bombing of residential park
https://twitter.com/gianfiorella/status/1498339002910343171
They’ve cluster bombed kindergardens and hospitals already, and plenty of residential areas. The evidence has already been handed to the Hague.
yeah but we don’t work at the Hague, this is the first one we’ve seen
Date: 1/03/2022 12:49:58
From: sibeen
ID: 1854404
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Coal is at its highest ever price.
Gold is at its highest ever price, or very close to.
Wheat is approaching its highest ever price.
Date: 1/03/2022 12:56:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854407
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 1/03/2022 12:59:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854410
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Coal is at its highest ever price.
Gold is at its highest ever price, or very close to.
Wheat is approaching its highest ever price.
Are you selling?
Date: 1/03/2022 13:01:52
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854412
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
NATO have hundreds of them. I’m talking about aircraft plus pilots.
A dodgy practice, certainly not unknown to the Russians.
There’s an abundance of evidence that Russians flew MiG-15s against UN forces in the Korean war, there’s unconfirmed but not necessarily dud reports that Russians flew MiG17s and MiG 21s on behalf of the North Vietnamese over North Vietnam, and they definitely provided crews for Egyptian-owned bombers and reconnaissance planes, and probably fighters, too, in decades gone by.
The embarrassment potential, if one of your pilots is shot down and captured, or his/her remains identified, is quite significant, so it’s not done lightly. At least by Western countries.
Quite. But it is important that Ukraine does not fall. A few squadrons of extra fighter aircraft could make a huge difference and tip the balance. It must not be a NATO contribution but nations acting individually. The embarassment potential of losing a pilot in combat is probably less than losing Ukraine and then admitting more could have been done.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-josep-borrell/news-story/135d7e3b0810cf6be61297127736ec58
EU countries will send “fighter jets” to Ukraine at Kyiv’s request to help it counter the Russian air and land assault, the bloc’s foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said on Sunday. “We’re going to provide even fighting jets,” he told a Brussels press conference. “We’re not talking about just ammunition. We are providing more important arms to go to a war.” Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba had told the EU “they need the kind of fighting jets that the Ukrainian army is able to operate … some member states have these kinds of planes”, Mr Borrell said.
EU, an organisation born of the dream of peaceful reconciliation and economic integration among its members, said on Sunday that it would finance the purchase of weapons for Ukraine, an unprecedented step for the bloc. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, speaking alongside Mr Borrell, called the decision “a watershed moment”. The EU also added to its sanctions on Russia by banning the country’s planes and banning Russian state media outlets broadcasting in the bloc. “Our airspace will be closed to every Russian plane – and that includes the private jets of oligarchs,” Ms von der Leyen said.
Date: 1/03/2022 13:09:12
From: Cymek
ID: 1854414
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
More money should be funded into cyberwarfare units instead of actual weapons as the disarray is similar but far less damaging to people and infrastructure.
Date: 1/03/2022 13:10:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854415
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
More money should be funded into cyberwarfare units instead of actual weapons as the disarray is similar but far less damaging to people and infrastructure.
Will we have to wear those silly suits which look to be made from aluminium A/C ducting?
Date: 1/03/2022 13:13:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854416
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
I have to admit, until I heard Kyslytsya say that, I was unaware of the controversy surrounding Russia’s accession to the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_the_United_Nations
How does / does similar apply to Republic of Taiwan and the renegade People’s Republic of West Taiwan ¿
Taiwan is not in the UN. Its seat was given to the PRC 50 years ago but in that case it was voted on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations
https://twitter.com/i/status/1497972204851634191
Residents from a town in Zaporizhzhia Oblast blocked the path of a Russian T-90A tank and forced it to turn around.
imagine if people driving tanks actually just weren’t all that interested in massacring civilians, back in the summer of ’89 or at other times
Date: 1/03/2022 13:14:08
From: buffy
ID: 1854417
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
Hey, if this ‘money for surrender’ thing takes off, maybe we could start a Gofundme, and buy the Russian Army.
Where would you keep it though?
P. Dutton’s backyard.
Date: 1/03/2022 13:19:59
From: Cymek
ID: 1854419
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Cymek said:
More money should be funded into cyberwarfare units instead of actual weapons as the disarray is similar but far less damaging to people and infrastructure.
Will we have to wear those silly suits which look to be made from aluminium A/C ducting?
Optional I reckon
Date: 1/03/2022 13:20:02
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854420
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 1/03/2022 13:22:26
From: dv
ID: 1854421
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
I have to admit, until I heard Kyslytsya say that, I was unaware of the controversy surrounding Russia’s accession to the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_the_United_Nations
How does / does similar apply to Republic of Taiwan and the renegade People’s Republic of West Taiwan ¿
Taiwan is not in the UN. Its seat was given to the PRC 50 years ago but in that case it was voted on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations
If Scotland secedes it will make The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland a fiction, which will mean that fully 3 of the 5 UN security council members will have asterisks.
Date: 1/03/2022 13:28:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854424
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sorry wrong thread before
so they were threatening to go thermobaric, apparently they’ve gone and done it now
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-01/ukraine-ambassador-to-us-says-russia-used-a-vacuum-bomb/100870638
“They used the vacuum bomb today, which is actually prohibited by the Geneva convention,” ambassador Oksana Markarova said after a meeting with politicians on Monday (local time).
doesn’t really give details on when where how et cetera so it’s kind of noninformation for now
Date: 1/03/2022 13:36:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1854425
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
sorry wrong thread before
so they were threatening to go thermobaric, apparently they’ve gone and done it now
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-01/ukraine-ambassador-to-us-says-russia-used-a-vacuum-bomb/100870638
“They used the vacuum bomb today, which is actually prohibited by the Geneva convention,” ambassador Oksana Markarova said after a meeting with politicians on Monday (local time).
doesn’t really give details on when where how et cetera so it’s kind of noninformation for now
It’s a strange concept isn’t it, certain weapons banned in war.
Likely to get away with it unless you are utterly defeated and leadership held responsible for war crimes
Date: 1/03/2022 13:38:04
From: buffy
ID: 1854427
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This probably belongs in here. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone put it up. From my sister in Houston.

Date: 1/03/2022 13:53:15
From: Michael V
ID: 1854428
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Just taken off from Brisbane:


Date: 1/03/2022 13:53:47
From: Michael V
ID: 1854429
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
This probably belongs in here. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone put it up. From my sister in Houston.

:)
Date: 1/03/2022 14:06:34
From: Speedy
ID: 1854430
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Date: 1/03/2022 14:12:31
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854432
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Well, it has a lot to do with the Bernoulli principle in fluid dynamics.
You see, when air flows over a curved surface, like an aeroplane’s wing…
Date: 1/03/2022 14:21:53
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1854433
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Well, it has a lot to do with the Bernoulli principle in fluid dynamics.
You see, when air flows over a curved surface, like an aeroplane’s wing…
Now back in the good old days that would have initiated a lengthy discussion about how aircraft wings actually work.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:23:22
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854434
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
dv said:
Turkey has officially labeled Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a war and says it will restrict some warships from passing through key waterways, in a move that experts said could potentially hinder some of Moscow’s military activities in the region.
On Thursday, Russian forces launched a land, sea and air assault on Ukraine in the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War Two.
Ukraine’s ambassador to Turkey Vasyl Bodnar went on local television last week and appealed for the government in Ankara to close its key straits to Russian warships under provisions of the 1936 Montreux Convention. Turkey said it could only do so if it officially recognized the conflict as a war, and on Sunday, that’s what it did.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his government would “use the authority given to our country by the Montreux Convention on ship traffic in the straits in a way that will prevent the crisis from escalating.”
While Erdogan said he considered “Russia’s attack on Ukraine unacceptable,” he also said Turkey would not abandon its ties with Russia or Ukraine.
The convention gives Turkey certain control over the passage of warships from the Dardanelles and Bosphorus Straits that connect the Aegean, Marmara, and Black Sea.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/28/middleeast/mideast-summary-02-28-2022-intl/index.html
What’s there to stop a Russian cruiser just sailing through anyway?
It will be considered an act of aggression and dealt with accordingly.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:24:08
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854435
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
Speedy said:
What is happening here?
Well, it has a lot to do with the Bernoulli principle in fluid dynamics.
You see, when air flows over a curved surface, like an aeroplane’s wing…
Now back in the good old days that would have initiated a lengthy discussion about how aircraft wings actually work.
Alternative hypotheses will be covered in later lectures. Sign up now for the full course. Only $150 per person.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:26:20
From: Michael V
ID: 1854437
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:37:53
From: Kingy
ID: 1854441
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
My guess is that it’s loaded with war support and heading to a country near Ukraine. I note that the destination isn’t specified on flightradar, which is unusual for a large aircraft, probably for it’s own protection.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:38:40
From: Speedy
ID: 1854443
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
My guess is that it’s loaded with war support and heading to a country near Ukraine. I note that the destination isn’t specified on flightradar, which is unusual for a large aircraft, probably for it’s own protection.
Thanks Kingy
Date: 1/03/2022 14:40:22
From: Cymek
ID: 1854447
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speedy said:
Kingy said:
Speedy said:
What is happening here?
My guess is that it’s loaded with war support and heading to a country near Ukraine. I note that the destination isn’t specified on flightradar, which is unusual for a large aircraft, probably for it’s own protection.
Thanks Kingy
This war aid must be shitting Putin off no end
Date: 1/03/2022 14:41:13
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854449
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Speedy said:
Kingy said:
My guess is that it’s loaded with war support and heading to a country near Ukraine. I note that the destination isn’t specified on flightradar, which is unusual for a large aircraft, probably for it’s own protection.
Thanks Kingy
This war aid must be shitting Putin off no end
Yes.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:47:40
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854458
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Tony Abbot is on his way to shirt-front Putin.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:49:23
From: Michael V
ID: 1854460
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Tony Abbot is on his way to shirt-front Putin.
snort
I wish.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:49:43
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854462
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
Greece sent a couple of transport planes in last night with “defence aids”, and I am guessing we are doing the same.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:51:45
From: Cymek
ID: 1854463
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
Speedy said:
What is happening here?
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
Greece sent a couple of transport planes in last night with “defence aids”, and I am guessing we are doing the same.
Akubra hats I bet
Date: 1/03/2022 14:52:51
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854464
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
Speedy said:
What is happening here?
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
Greece sent a couple of transport planes in last night with “defence aids”, and I am guessing we are doing the same.
Is that painted with Ukranian colours?
Date: 1/03/2022 14:53:43
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854466
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
My guess is that it’s loaded with war support and heading to a country near Ukraine. I note that the destination isn’t specified on flightradar, which is unusual for a large aircraft, probably for it’s own protection.
Most transport planes are offloading at Rzeszow Jasionka Airport in Poland by the looks.
Date: 1/03/2022 14:55:52
From: Cymek
ID: 1854470
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
Greece sent a couple of transport planes in last night with “defence aids”, and I am guessing we are doing the same.
Akubra hats I bet
“Mr president, it is shipment from Australia”
Volodymyr Zelenskyy “I bet it is number of their famous boxing kangaroos to punch Russians soldiers”
“No it hats”
Volodymyr Zelenskyy “That is dissappointing”
Date: 1/03/2022 15:13:07
From: Arts
ID: 1854484
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Dark Orange said:
Speedy said:
What is happening here?
Tony Abbot is on his way to shirt-front Putin.
snort
I wish.
I’m putting my money on Putin
Date: 1/03/2022 15:13:07
From: Arts
ID: 1854485
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Dark Orange said:
Speedy said:
What is happening here?
Tony Abbot is on his way to shirt-front Putin.
snort
I wish.
I’m putting my money on Putin
Date: 1/03/2022 15:14:10
From: Kingy
ID: 1854487
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tasmania’s internet is offline, Bom rain radars are offline. What’s the odds that this is a part of the cyber war?
Date: 1/03/2022 15:17:09
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854490
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Tasmania’s internet is offline, Bom rain radars are offline. What’s the odds that this is a part of the cyber war?
basslink is still good.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:17:49
From: Cymek
ID: 1854491
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Tasmania’s internet is offline, Bom rain radars are offline. What’s the odds that this is a part of the cyber war?
Could be, warnings about it in the news.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:20:31
From: dv
ID: 1854493
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tories financed by ‘Putin’s mates for decades’ and Russia did influence UK votes, Dominic Cummings claimsBoris Johnson’s former chief aide has claimed Russia influenced the 2014 Scottish independence referendum
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-financed-putin-mates-russia-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims-1480807
Date: 1/03/2022 15:20:44
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854494
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Kingy said:
Tasmania’s internet is offline, Bom rain radars are offline. What’s the odds that this is a part of the cyber war?
basslink is still good.
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:22:04
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854495
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Tories financed by ‘Putin’s mates for decades’ and Russia did influence UK votes, Dominic Cummings claimsBoris Johnson’s former chief aide has claimed Russia influenced the 2014 Scottish independence referendum
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-financed-putin-mates-russia-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims-1480807
Russia influenced the 2014 Scottish independence referendum
—-
which way?
Date: 1/03/2022 15:25:12
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854496
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Kingy said:
Tasmania’s internet is offline, Bom rain radars are offline. What’s the odds that this is a part of the cyber war?
basslink is still good.
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:28:33
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854497
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
basslink is still good.
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
I spent a good part of my life ‘running away.’ Until I got to Snug Tiers. I don’t know where I would go from here.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:29:15
From: Kingy
ID: 1854499
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
basslink is still good.
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
Today Ukraine.
Tomorrow Tasmania.
Where will it all end.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:29:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854500
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
I spent a good part of my life ‘running away.’ Until I got to Snug Tiers. I don’t know where I would go from here.
Macqaurie Island is nice at this time of year, i hear.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:30:08
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854501
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Tories financed by ‘Putin’s mates for decades’ and Russia did influence UK votes, Dominic Cummings claimsBoris Johnson’s former chief aide has claimed Russia influenced the 2014 Scottish independence referendum
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-financed-putin-mates-russia-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims-1480807
Cummings appears to like a bit of a lie.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:30:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854502
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
Today Ukraine.
Tomorrow Tasmania.
Where will it all end.
Right there.
Once you’ve got those two, you’ve got the lot.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:36:53
From: furious
ID: 1854503
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Kingy said:
captain_spalding said:
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
Today Ukraine.
Tomorrow Tasmania.
Where will it all end.
Right there.
Once you’ve got those two, you’ve got the lot.
Given Bubblecar’s ancestry and his current residence are connected to these two places, I think it is fair to say that if he promises not to join NATO, then it may help to bring it to an end..
Date: 1/03/2022 15:38:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854505
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
captain_spalding said:
Kingy said:
Today Ukraine.
Tomorrow Tasmania.
Where will it all end.
Right there.
Once you’ve got those two, you’ve got the lot.
Given Bubblecar’s ancestry and his current residence are connected to these two places, I think it is fair to say that if he promises not to join NATO, then it may help to bring it to an end..
Now we’re getting deep into Putin’s thinking…
Date: 1/03/2022 15:44:19
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854508
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Over the Hills and Far Away” – Marsh Family adaptation for Ukraine of traditional folk song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2YJg6_eQiU
Date: 1/03/2022 15:46:32
From: Michael V
ID: 1854509
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
captain_spalding said:
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
I spent a good part of my life ‘running away.’ Until I got to Snug Tiers. I don’t know where I would go from here.
Macqaurie Island is nice at this time of year, i hear.
Just about anywhere is, compared to Russia.
Date: 1/03/2022 15:58:36
From: dv
ID: 1854511
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/hungary-vows-to-block-transit-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine
Hungary will block the transit of lethal weapons to Ukraine via its territory, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said at a briefing in Kosovo on Monday, citing concern that such transports could become military targets.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cultivated close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the past decade, is one of the few government leaders among European Union and NATO members to have also rejected supplying lethal arms to help Ukraine resist Russia’s invasion.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:03:29
From: Cymek
ID: 1854513
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/hungary-vows-to-block-transit-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine
Hungary will block the transit of lethal weapons to Ukraine via its territory, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said at a briefing in Kosovo on Monday, citing concern that such transports could become military targets.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cultivated close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the past decade, is one of the few government leaders among European Union and NATO members to have also rejected supplying lethal arms to help Ukraine resist Russia’s invasion.
I wonder if Western nations and others could also aid Ukraine by all secretly attacking Russia via cyberwarfare at the same time.’
Russia is expected to do it to them so tit for tat
Date: 1/03/2022 16:04:27
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854516
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Kingy said:
Tasmania’s internet is offline, Bom rain radars are offline. What’s the odds that this is a part of the cyber war?
basslink is still good.
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:13:21
From: Kingy
ID: 1854519
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/hungary-vows-to-block-transit-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine
Hungary will block the transit of lethal weapons to Ukraine via its territory, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said at a briefing in Kosovo on Monday, citing concern that such transports could become military targets.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cultivated close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the past decade, is one of the few government leaders among European Union and NATO members to have also rejected supplying lethal arms to help Ukraine resist Russia’s invasion.
I wonder if Western nations and others could also aid Ukraine by all secretly attacking Russia via cyberwarfare at the same time.’
Russia is expected to do it to them so tit for tat
Pretty sure they already are. Anonymous has been attacking them since Thursday and claims to have shut down several networks, including Belarus trains.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:17:06
From: Cymek
ID: 1854520
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Cymek said:
dv said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/hungary-vows-to-block-transit-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine
Hungary will block the transit of lethal weapons to Ukraine via its territory, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said at a briefing in Kosovo on Monday, citing concern that such transports could become military targets.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cultivated close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the past decade, is one of the few government leaders among European Union and NATO members to have also rejected supplying lethal arms to help Ukraine resist Russia’s invasion.
I wonder if Western nations and others could also aid Ukraine by all secretly attacking Russia via cyberwarfare at the same time.’
Russia is expected to do it to them so tit for tat
Pretty sure they already are. Anonymous has been attacking them since Thursday and claims to have shut down several networks, including Belarus trains.
I imagine so, I read that about Anonymous.
I was thinking what could thousands of hackers do if they attacked all at the same time.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:21:32
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854521
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/hungary-vows-to-block-transit-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine
Hungary will block the transit of lethal weapons to Ukraine via its territory, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said at a briefing in Kosovo on Monday, citing concern that such transports could become military targets.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cultivated close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the past decade, is one of the few government leaders among European Union and NATO members to have also rejected supplying lethal arms to help Ukraine resist Russia’s invasion.
I wonder if Western nations and others could also aid Ukraine by all secretly attacking Russia via cyberwarfare at the same time.’
Russia is expected to do it to them so tit for tat
A lot of countries and organisations, official and not, are already doing that.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:21:50
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854522
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
basslink is still good.
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
Date: 1/03/2022 16:22:48
From: furious
ID: 1854523
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Kingy said:
Cymek said:
I wonder if Western nations and others could also aid Ukraine by all secretly attacking Russia via cyberwarfare at the same time.’
Russia is expected to do it to them so tit for tat
Pretty sure they already are. Anonymous has been attacking them since Thursday and claims to have shut down several networks, including Belarus trains.
I imagine so, I read that about Anonymous.
I was thinking what could thousands of hackers do if they attacked all at the same time.
They’re doing DDoS attacks. Only really need one hacker and thousands of compromised computers ..
Date: 1/03/2022 16:23:12
From: Kingy
ID: 1854524
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
Can we set up a go-fund-me to send him to Russia?
Date: 1/03/2022 16:24:32
From: dv
ID: 1854526
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/hungary-vows-to-block-transit-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine
Hungary will block the transit of lethal weapons to Ukraine via its territory, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said at a briefing in Kosovo on Monday, citing concern that such transports could become military targets.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cultivated close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the past decade, is one of the few government leaders among European Union and NATO members to have also rejected supplying lethal arms to help Ukraine resist Russia’s invasion.
I wonder if Western nations and others could also aid Ukraine by all secretly attacking Russia via cyberwarfare at the same time.’
Russia is expected to do it to them so tit for tat
Orban is a big star on Fox News. I think they may need another pivot.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:25:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854528
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-28/hungary-vows-to-block-transit-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine
Hungary will block the transit of lethal weapons to Ukraine via its territory, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said at a briefing in Kosovo on Monday, citing concern that such transports could become military targets.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cultivated close ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the past decade, is one of the few government leaders among European Union and NATO members to have also rejected supplying lethal arms to help Ukraine resist Russia’s invasion.
Having a bit of a bet each way.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:26:11
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854529
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 1/03/2022 16:26:14
From: dv
ID: 1854530
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Dark Orange said:
dv said:
Got a link?
Found ‘em.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1498329367730077708?
“If wants to kill himself, he doesn’t need to use nuclear arsenal. He has to do what the guy in Berlin did in a bunker in May 1945.” — Sergiy Kyslytsya, Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Nations.
(The transcript doesn’t do the delivery justice)
https://www.facebook.com/1167515055/posts/10223836608640962/?d=n
“…Last September, my President said, while delivering his statement at the high-level segment of the 76th session of the General Assembly: “I understand that criticism of the UN is often heard. But we criticize ourselves.”
If we fail to respond now, we will face much more than criticism. We will face oblivion. It must not happen.
Now it is time to act. Time to help Ukraine, which is now paying the ultimate price for the freedom and security of itself and of the world.
If Ukraine does not survive, international peace will not survive. If Ukraine does not survive, the United Nations will not survive, have no illusions. If Ukraine does not survive, we cannot be surprised if democracy falls next. Now we can save Ukraine, save the United Nations, save democracy, and defend the values we believe in and that Ukrainians are fighting for and paying for with their lives.
The Russian delegate will speak shortly. Putin has done everything to delegitimize the Russian presence in the United Nations. But I wonder if the Russian Federation’s presence in the United Nations has ever been legitimate.
I wonder if this hall, this Assembly ever voted in accordance with paragraph 2 of Article 4 on the admission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations either in December 1991 or in January 1992 or at any time thereafter.
I want to ask the delegates whose countries voted for the admission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations, please, raise your hand if your country voted in the formal session of the GA in reply to the letter of Yeltsin in December24, 1991, when he told the UN that Russia would like to be the continuator state of the demised Soviet Union.
Anyone? Shall I put on my glasses? Maybe my vision fails me and I don’t see any hand raised. ontry? Noone voted for Russian membership?
I’ll leave you with that. And think about it when you listen to the Russian delegate.”
Worth watching in full, about 18 minutes
https://youtu.be/EbiikviPOa8
Date: 1/03/2022 16:26:43
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854531
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
Those Russians are everywhere!
Date: 1/03/2022 16:40:56
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854532
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
Bubblecar did that once and wiped out the whole east of the continent.
Date: 1/03/2022 16:45:24
From: Cymek
ID: 1854533
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:

The black humour for this war is quite funny, ripping on the aggressors is certainly a different type of attack
Date: 1/03/2022 17:06:30
From: buffy
ID: 1854543
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
basslink is still good.
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Tasmania has always been near the top of the Kremlin’s hit-list.
Hasn’t it been wet in Tassie too? Water in the wires…
Date: 1/03/2022 17:07:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854544
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Speedy said:
Michael V said:
Just taken off from Brisbane:


What is happening here?
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
It is a Ukranian aircraft. Antonov-225 Mriya.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:10:10
From: buffy
ID: 1854545
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Its all back.
Heidi says that twitter says it is Russian.
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
Date: 1/03/2022 17:11:36
From: buffy
ID: 1854547
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
Bubblecar did that once and wiped out the whole east of the continent.
Where is Bubblecar today?
Date: 1/03/2022 17:12:44
From: dv
ID: 1854548
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
You mean Trump’s incompetence conspiracy?
Date: 1/03/2022 17:13:42
From: Cymek
ID: 1854549
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
Heidi says it is patchy. She got through to her parents but a couple of minutes in she was disconnected abruptly. And she keeps on falling off the internet.
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
Conspiracies give far more competence to government than they ever show in reality
Date: 1/03/2022 17:14:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1854550
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
buffy said:
sarahs mum said:
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
You mean Trump’s incontinence conspiracy?
Date: 1/03/2022 17:16:16
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854551
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
Peak Warming Man said:
sarahs mum said:
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
Bubblecar did that once and wiped out the whole east of the continent.
Where is Bubblecar today?
He doesn’t have satellite broadband.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:23:04
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854554
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
buffy said:
sarahs mum said:
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
You mean Trump’s incompetence conspiracy?
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Date: 1/03/2022 17:23:22
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854555
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
dv said:
buffy said:
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
You mean Trump’s incompetence conspiracy?
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Stephen Colbert sorry.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:23:37
From: furious
ID: 1854556
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
Peak Warming Man said:
sarahs mum said:
new rumour is some person digging a ditch in frankston wiped out Tassie..
Bubblecar did that once and wiped out the whole east of the continent.
Where is Bubblecar today?
The internet is down
Date: 1/03/2022 17:24:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854558
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
dv said:
buffy said:
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
You mean Trump’s incompetence conspiracy?
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Stephen Colbert
Date: 1/03/2022 17:27:05
From: buffy
ID: 1854559
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
buffy said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar did that once and wiped out the whole east of the continent.
Where is Bubblecar today?
The internet is down
I thought it was up again.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:28:56
From: furious
ID: 1854560
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
furious said:
buffy said:
Where is Bubblecar today?
The internet is down
I thought it was up again.
Reports suggest that it’s patchy…
Date: 1/03/2022 17:30:28
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854561
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
dv said:
buffy said:
What is that thing about incompetence trumps conspiracy almost every time?
You mean Trump’s incompetence conspiracy?
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Well he’s actually a communist.
“Russian president Vladimir Putin is a very model of a modern major communist. After all, he has a background in the Soviet Union’s KGB and he much admires such communist totalitarian leaders of the Soviet Union as Vladimir Lenin and Josef Stalin. However, Peter Hartcher, The Age and Sydney Morning Herald’s international editor, reckons that Putin is a fascist.
Your man Hartcher commenced his Comment piece on Friday 25 February concerning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in Nine Newspapers with this reflection: “It was unthinkable. Until the moment it happened”. The reference is to Russia’s attack on Ukraine. But the invasion was not at all unexpected. In fact, it was anticipated by a number of knowledgeable organisations.
Peter Hartcher went on to make this claim:
“Fascism, the political ideology that denies all rights to individuals in their relations with the state, was not vanquished by World War II, only subdued temporarily. If a dictator allows his own people no rights, why would he hesitate to crush the rights of his neighbours?…Fascists are threatened by freedom at home and abroad.
This is ahistorical nonsense. Adolf Hitler was a Nazi (a brand of fascism), Benito Mussolini was a fascist and Vladimir Putin is a communist. If Peter Hartcher is of the view that communist dictators do not invade other countries, he must have forgotten the Nazi Soviet Pact of mid-1939 to mid-1941, under which Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union and the Baltic States were incorporated into the Soviet Union. Also Nine’s international editor must have forgotten the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968.
Putin is dictatorial thug. But he is one of the communist, not fascist, kind.”
https://thesydneyinstitute.com.au/blog/issue-577/
Date: 1/03/2022 17:32:58
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1854562
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:
Speedy said:
What is happening here?
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
It is a Ukranian aircraft. Antonov-225 Mriya.
No. It tells you what it is in the description in the flight radar pic. antonov an 124 ruslan
Date: 1/03/2022 17:36:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854563
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
It is a Ukranian aircraft. Antonov-225 Mriya.
No. It tells you what it is in the description in the flight radar pic. antonov an 124 ruslan
Yep I’d just checked that error.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:39:47
From: Cymek
ID: 1854565
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Spiny Norman said:
dv said:
You mean Trump’s incompetence conspiracy?
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Well he’s actually a communist.
“Russian president Vladimir Putin is a very model of a modern major communist. After all, he has a background in the Soviet Union’s KGB and he much admires such communist totalitarian leaders of the Soviet Union as Vladimir Lenin and Josef Stalin. However, Peter Hartcher, The Age and Sydney Morning Herald’s international editor, reckons that Putin is a fascist.
Your man Hartcher commenced his Comment piece on Friday 25 February concerning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in Nine Newspapers with this reflection: “It was unthinkable. Until the moment it happened”. The reference is to Russia’s attack on Ukraine. But the invasion was not at all unexpected. In fact, it was anticipated by a number of knowledgeable organisations.
Peter Hartcher went on to make this claim:
“Fascism, the political ideology that denies all rights to individuals in their relations with the state, was not vanquished by World War II, only subdued temporarily. If a dictator allows his own people no rights, why would he hesitate to crush the rights of his neighbours?…Fascists are threatened by freedom at home and abroad.
This is ahistorical nonsense. Adolf Hitler was a Nazi (a brand of fascism), Benito Mussolini was a fascist and Vladimir Putin is a communist. If Peter Hartcher is of the view that communist dictators do not invade other countries, he must have forgotten the Nazi Soviet Pact of mid-1939 to mid-1941, under which Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union and the Baltic States were incorporated into the Soviet Union. Also Nine’s international editor must have forgotten the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968.
Putin is dictatorial thug. But he is one of the communist, not fascist, kind.”
https://thesydneyinstitute.com.au/blog/issue-577/
Not a lot separates fascist and communist leaders
Date: 1/03/2022 17:40:06
From: dv
ID: 1854566
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
MOEX will remain closed again today
Date: 1/03/2022 17:41:42
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1854568
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
There is a broad consensus among students of contemporary Russia that the political system constructed by Vladimir Putin is authoritarian and that he plays a dominant role in it. By building and expanding on these two features and by engaging in a deconstruction and reconstruction of the concept of fascism, this article suggests that the Putin system may plausibly be termed fascist. Not being a type of group, disposition, politics, or ideology, fascism may be salvaged from the conceptual confusion that surrounds it by being conceived of as a type of authoritarian political system. Fascism may be defined as a popular fully authoritarian political system with a personalistic dictator and a cult of the leader—a definition that makes sense conceptually as well as empirically, with respect to Putin’s Russia and related fascist systems.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:42:51
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854569
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:
Dunno. Don’t see many of these in the area. Probably the first I have seen.
It is a Ukranian aircraft. Antonov-225 Mriya.
No. It tells you what it is in the description in the flight radar pic. antonov an 124 ruslan
The Mriya is no more. :(
Date: 1/03/2022 17:46:08
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854575
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
JudgeMental said:
roughbarked said:
It is a Ukranian aircraft. Antonov-225 Mriya.
No. It tells you what it is in the description in the flight radar pic. antonov an 124 ruslan
The Mriya is no more. :(
Sadly.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:47:05
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1854576
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Spiny Norman said:
dv said:
You mean Trump’s incompetence conspiracy?
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Well he’s actually a communist.
“Russian president Vladimir Putin is a very model of a modern major communist. After all, he has a background in the Soviet Union’s KGB and he much admires such communist totalitarian leaders of the Soviet Union as Vladimir Lenin and Josef Stalin. However, Peter Hartcher, The Age and Sydney Morning Herald’s international editor, reckons that Putin is a fascist.
Your man Hartcher commenced his Comment piece on Friday 25 February concerning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in Nine Newspapers with this reflection: “It was unthinkable. Until the moment it happened”. The reference is to Russia’s attack on Ukraine. But the invasion was not at all unexpected. In fact, it was anticipated by a number of knowledgeable organisations.
Peter Hartcher went on to make this claim:
“Fascism, the political ideology that denies all rights to individuals in their relations with the state, was not vanquished by World War II, only subdued temporarily. If a dictator allows his own people no rights, why would he hesitate to crush the rights of his neighbours?…Fascists are threatened by freedom at home and abroad.
This is ahistorical nonsense. Adolf Hitler was a Nazi (a brand of fascism), Benito Mussolini was a fascist and Vladimir Putin is a communist. If Peter Hartcher is of the view that communist dictators do not invade other countries, he must have forgotten the Nazi Soviet Pact of mid-1939 to mid-1941, under which Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union and the Baltic States were incorporated into the Soviet Union. Also Nine’s international editor must have forgotten the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968.
Putin is dictatorial thug. But he is one of the communist, not fascist, kind.”
https://thesydneyinstitute.com.au/blog/issue-577/
That seems to ignore the primary attribute of communists that involves state ownership of the economy.
Date: 1/03/2022 17:53:09
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1854580
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
From blunder to bloodier
The woes of the Russian war machine are big and real. Are they also temporary?
Vladimir Putin may learn from his copious mistakes
Feb 28th 2022
WHEN SOVIET-LED forces invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968, it was a straightforward affair. The invaders met little resistance, the country’s leader was whisked off to Moscow on day two and the West “just swallowed it”, notes Sergey Radchenko, a historian. “What we have today in Ukraine is playing out very differently.”
The bulk of Russian forces are now 25km from the centre of Kyiv, the capital, and will probably encircle it in the coming days. Russian forces have also broken through Ukrainian lines in the south, driving west to Odessa, a major port, and north to the centre of the country, where they could cut off Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine. Kharkiv, which repelled attacks over the weekend, faced heavy shelling on Monday.
The Russian war machine is nevertheless struggling. Things are very different from 1968. But its performance is also “worse in Georgia in 2008”, says Konrad Muzyka, a defence analyst. That war led to sweeping reforms to the armed forces, but perhaps not sweeping enough. Images from Ukraine show mangled clumps of Russian armour. A video from the alleged aftermath of an ambush on one convoy near Sumy, a north-eastern city, on Sunday, shows the loss of at least a dozen armoured vehicles, including two tanks, and a self-propelled howitzer. The question is whether these troubles are temporary or indicate a deeper rot that Ukraine can exploit.
Russia’s biggest problem appears to be logistics. A Western official says that Russia has particular problems with engineering units. Ukraine has blown up many bridges, and Russia has been unable to get bridging units through congested roads. Russian tanks and other vehicles lie abandoned on the roadside, either broken-down or out of fuel, suggesting supply lines are overstretched, and support units are unable to keep up. Marooned units are prime targets for ambushes. Ukrainian forces have no shortage of arms with which to strike them—in recent days, Denmark, Luxembourg and Finland became the latest European countries to say they would supply thousands of anti-tank missiles.
Nor has Russia secured the skies. Western officials thought that Russian missiles would wipe out Ukraine’s air defences—a network of radars and surface-to-air missiles—in the first hours of a war. In fact, the strikes were lighter than expected, possibly to conserve low stocks of precision munitions. Perhaps as a result, Russia has not made much use of its warplanes so far, though recent footage appears to show Su-34 bombers over Kharkiv and in the south of Ukraine.
The absence of air superiority has two knock-on effects. One is that soldiers lack proper fixed-wing air support—a historic weakness for Russia because of poor co-ordination between ground troops and air forces, says Guy Plopsky, an expert on the country’s air power. The other is that, because Russia is not sweeping the skies with fighter jets, Ukraine can keep more planes up—something helped by Russia’s sparing use of missiles, which means it is hitting only a few points on airfields, rather than cratering them completely. Ukraine is using its Turkish-made TB2 drones to conduct deadly strikes on unsuspecting Russian forces, who seem to have no idea what is above them. Few experts thought these drones would be usable four days into a war.
All of this points to deeper tactical shortcomings. In modern war different elements, including infantry, armour, artillery, air defence, engineering units and electronic warfare, are supposed to work together, each compensating for the other’s weaknesses. A tank, for instance, provides firepower for the infantry that travel with it; in turn, the infantry can dismount and hunt down anti-tank platoons. Russia is making a hash of this. In some cases, its tactics verge on the suicidal. A video reportedly taken in Bucha, a town north-west of Kyiv, shows a Russian armoured vehicle broadcasting propaganda, instructing civilians to remain calm. A man wielding a rocket-propelled grenade strolls up to the vehicle and calmly destroys it.
One reason for these blunders may be the scale of the Russian deployment. During its previous invasion of Ukraine in 2014-15, Russia sent no more than a dozen or so battalion tactical groups (BTGs) of 1,000-odd troops. This time it has sent well over 100. The result is “diluted BTGs”, as one American armour officer puts it. The intelligence units that would normally pick up signals of a TB2 loitering overhead and the artillery forces that would soften up Ukrainian defenders, as they did in 2015, may not be available in sufficient numbers to deploy into every BTG. “So now you’re leavening your best ingredients into a much larger loaf,” says the officer.
There are signs of poor morale in some units. Video footage shows at least one tank column hurriedly reversing after being confronted by unarmed civilians. Dima Adamsky, an expert on Russia’s armed forces at Reichman University in Israel, says he is surprised by the high numbers of young conscripts. They may be confused as to whether their Ukrainian opponents are brothers bound in “spiritual, human and civilisational ties”, as Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, put it in an essay published last summer, or instruments of drug-addled Nazis, as he thundered recently. In Berdyansk, a port city that fell to Russia on Sunday, local residents openly protested against the Rosgvardia (national guard) troops on their streets.
Some Western officials and military experts conclude that Russia’s army is a paper tiger. “This isn’t a good army executing a bad plan…or out-of-context tactics,” says BA Friedman, a military analyst and reserve officer in the US Marine Corps. “It’s a bad army!” Others are more cautious. They say that Russian tactics may adapt in the days and weeks ahead, and that the country has mass on its side. Russia is yet to deploy a quarter of the forces on Ukraine’s border, according to American officials. One column, its southern end 27km from Kyiv’s centre, stretches over another 27km of road, according to satellite imagery. American officials also say that the Kremlin has sent fighters from the Wagner Group, a Kremlin-linked mercenary outfit, to Ukraine.
Russia has so far worked much harder to avoid civilian casualties than in its air campaign in Syria and than was expected at the start of the conflict, says Mr Adamsky. But the war may be entering an “uglier stage”, he warns. That is evident in Kharkiv. Rockets and cluster munitions have begun targeting residential areas, causing widespread damage to entire blocks of flats. Images show corpses littering the street. The appearance of Su-34 bombers suggests that the city may soon be struck from the air. Mr Putin’s gamble on a quick war has failed—now he appears set on a grim one.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/02/28/the-woes-of-the-russian-war-machine-are-big-and-real-are-they-also-temporary?
Date: 1/03/2022 17:57:52
From: Cymek
ID: 1854583
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Spiny Norman said:
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Well he’s actually a communist.
“Russian president Vladimir Putin is a very model of a modern major communist. After all, he has a background in the Soviet Union’s KGB and he much admires such communist totalitarian leaders of the Soviet Union as Vladimir Lenin and Josef Stalin. However, Peter Hartcher, The Age and Sydney Morning Herald’s international editor, reckons that Putin is a fascist.
Your man Hartcher commenced his Comment piece on Friday 25 February concerning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in Nine Newspapers with this reflection: “It was unthinkable. Until the moment it happened”. The reference is to Russia’s attack on Ukraine. But the invasion was not at all unexpected. In fact, it was anticipated by a number of knowledgeable organisations.
Peter Hartcher went on to make this claim:
“Fascism, the political ideology that denies all rights to individuals in their relations with the state, was not vanquished by World War II, only subdued temporarily. If a dictator allows his own people no rights, why would he hesitate to crush the rights of his neighbours?…Fascists are threatened by freedom at home and abroad.
This is ahistorical nonsense. Adolf Hitler was a Nazi (a brand of fascism), Benito Mussolini was a fascist and Vladimir Putin is a communist. If Peter Hartcher is of the view that communist dictators do not invade other countries, he must have forgotten the Nazi Soviet Pact of mid-1939 to mid-1941, under which Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union and the Baltic States were incorporated into the Soviet Union. Also Nine’s international editor must have forgotten the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968.
Putin is dictatorial thug. But he is one of the communist, not fascist, kind.”
https://thesydneyinstitute.com.au/blog/issue-577/
That seems to ignore the primary attribute of communists that involves state ownership of the economy.
How can they have rich (billionaires) people if everyone is equal
China and Russia (even more so the USSR) aren’t any better (maybe slightly as I wasn’t there) than the regimes they replaced.
Military and secret police to keep people in line, huge wealth in a few people hands.
Information supressed.
They are some sort of quasi fascist capitalist regime with communist leanings when it suits them.
Date: 1/03/2022 18:09:08
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854587
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Russian equivalent of the TRG who were to go in after the main troops to mop up any civil disobedience got stuck in the open and found themselves getting mopped up.
https://newsreadonline.com/sobr-commander-and-42-other-commandos-killed-during-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-rossmedia/
Date: 1/03/2022 18:10:13
From: dv
ID: 1854588
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Spiny Norman said:
FWIW from the Robert Colbert show last night.
Nice done!

Well he’s actually a communist.
“Russian president Vladimir Putin is a very model of a modern major communist. After all, he has a background in the Soviet Union’s KGB and he much admires such communist totalitarian leaders of the Soviet Union as Vladimir Lenin and Josef Stalin. However, Peter Hartcher, The Age and Sydney Morning Herald’s international editor, reckons that Putin is a fascist.
Your man Hartcher commenced his Comment piece on Friday 25 February concerning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in Nine Newspapers with this reflection: “It was unthinkable. Until the moment it happened”. The reference is to Russia’s attack on Ukraine. But the invasion was not at all unexpected. In fact, it was anticipated by a number of knowledgeable organisations.
Peter Hartcher went on to make this claim:
“Fascism, the political ideology that denies all rights to individuals in their relations with the state, was not vanquished by World War II, only subdued temporarily. If a dictator allows his own people no rights, why would he hesitate to crush the rights of his neighbours?…Fascists are threatened by freedom at home and abroad.
This is ahistorical nonsense. Adolf Hitler was a Nazi (a brand of fascism), Benito Mussolini was a fascist and Vladimir Putin is a communist. If Peter Hartcher is of the view that communist dictators do not invade other countries, he must have forgotten the Nazi Soviet Pact of mid-1939 to mid-1941, under which Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union and the Baltic States were incorporated into the Soviet Union. Also Nine’s international editor must have forgotten the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968.
Putin is dictatorial thug. But he is one of the communist, not fascist, kind.”
https://thesydneyinstitute.com.au/blog/issue-577/
That seems to ignore the primary attribute of communists that involves state ownership of the economy.
Quite. Indeed one of the defining features of his reign has been the flogging off of public assets cheaply to his cronies.
Date: 1/03/2022 18:27:41
From: Cymek
ID: 1854593
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
Date: 1/03/2022 18:30:08
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854594
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
It appears that Moscow is justified, whatever it does.
Date: 1/03/2022 18:32:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854596
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
Date: 1/03/2022 18:36:30
From: Cymek
ID: 1854597
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
I wonder what they expect to happen if they win, occupying a nation were everyone is out to get you.
Weapons smuggled to resistance forces (I’d assume) even if no one sends in troops
You can’t keep huge forces there for ever as if nothing else when not in use they’d be targets
Date: 1/03/2022 18:40:22
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854598
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
I wonder what they expect to happen if they win, occupying a nation were everyone is out to get you.
Weapons smuggled to resistance forces (I’d assume) even if no one sends in troops
You can’t keep huge forces there for ever as if nothing else when not in use they’d be targets
When Granny’s knitting circle starts making molotov cocktails, your occupying forces are going to have a bad time of it.
https://twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1498225748234182658
Date: 1/03/2022 18:54:22
From: dv
ID: 1854606
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
It’s going to be written by Viktor Zolotov
Date: 1/03/2022 18:56:50
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854608
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
Actually history is written by the historians of the free world, not by the semi-literate hacks at RT.
Presumably Russians are expected to read “history books” written and approved by their Ministry of Lies, but I’d be surprised if more than a handful actually do.
Date: 1/03/2022 18:57:58
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1854609
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I suppose the real question is why Gerard Henderson gets all defensive when authoritarian dictators are described as fascists.
Date: 1/03/2022 18:58:13
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854610
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov accuses the European Union of “hostile behaviour” towards Russia, and says that the arming of Ukraine was an “extremely dangerous and destabilising factor”. Peskov says that Western arms supplies to Kyiv shows that Moscow was justified in demilitarising Ukraine. (Reuters)
Didn’t this happen just before and currently now and all previous weapons were Russian and they are currently getting Western weaponry so they aren’t all slaughtered
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
It’s going to be written by Viktor Zolotov
He seems to be the same species of monkey as Putin:

Date: 1/03/2022 18:59:52
From: dv
ID: 1854611
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
It’s going to be written by Viktor Zolotov
He seems to be the same species of monkey as Putin:

ROFL … he looks like a variant
Date: 1/03/2022 18:59:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854612
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
It’s going to be written by Viktor Zolotov
He seems to be the same species of monkey as Putin:

Looks ike they are both ecstatic about how rich they are.
Date: 1/03/2022 19:10:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854613
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
It’s going to be written by Viktor Zolotov
He seems to be the same species of monkey as Putin:

ROFL … he looks like a variant
Imagine the Russian army being all clones of Putin.
Date: 1/03/2022 19:12:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854614
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
The Russian equivalent of the TRG who were to go in after the main troops to mop up any civil disobedience got stuck in the open and found themselves getting mopped up.
https://newsreadonline.com/sobr-commander-and-42-other-commandos-killed-during-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-rossmedia/
Rapidly taken out.
Date: 1/03/2022 19:26:03
From: buffy
ID: 1854617
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
It’s been said that history is written by the victors.
Mr. Peskov could at least wait to see if the Russians win before he begins dictating the history of the conflict.
It’s going to be written by Viktor Zolotov
He seems to be the same species of monkey as Putin:

Nepotism?
Date: 1/03/2022 19:27:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854618
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
It’s going to be written by Viktor Zolotov
He seems to be the same species of monkey as Putin:

Nepotism?
Looks like he’s perfected human cloning.
Date: 1/03/2022 19:35:39
From: Kingy
ID: 1854622
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
From blunder to bloodier
The woes of the Russian war machine are big and real. Are they also temporary?
Vladimir Putin may learn from his copious mistakes
Feb 28th 2022
WHEN SOVIET-LED forces invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968, it was a straightforward affair. The invaders met little resistance, the country’s leader was whisked off to Moscow on day two and the West “just swallowed it”, notes Sergey Radchenko, a historian. “What we have today in Ukraine is playing out very differently.”
The bulk of Russian forces are now 25km from the centre of Kyiv, the capital, and will probably encircle it in the coming days. Russian forces have also broken through Ukrainian lines in the south, driving west to Odessa, a major port, and north to the centre of the country, where they could cut off Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine. Kharkiv, which repelled attacks over the weekend, faced heavy shelling on Monday.
The Russian war machine is nevertheless struggling. Things are very different from 1968. But its performance is also “worse in Georgia in 2008”, says Konrad Muzyka, a defence analyst. That war led to sweeping reforms to the armed forces, but perhaps not sweeping enough. Images from Ukraine show mangled clumps of Russian armour. A video from the alleged aftermath of an ambush on one convoy near Sumy, a north-eastern city, on Sunday, shows the loss of at least a dozen armoured vehicles, including two tanks, and a self-propelled howitzer. The question is whether these troubles are temporary or indicate a deeper rot that Ukraine can exploit.
Russia’s biggest problem appears to be logistics. A Western official says that Russia has particular problems with engineering units. Ukraine has blown up many bridges, and Russia has been unable to get bridging units through congested roads. Russian tanks and other vehicles lie abandoned on the roadside, either broken-down or out of fuel, suggesting supply lines are overstretched, and support units are unable to keep up. Marooned units are prime targets for ambushes. Ukrainian forces have no shortage of arms with which to strike them—in recent days, Denmark, Luxembourg and Finland became the latest European countries to say they would supply thousands of anti-tank missiles.
Nor has Russia secured the skies. Western officials thought that Russian missiles would wipe out Ukraine’s air defences—a network of radars and surface-to-air missiles—in the first hours of a war. In fact, the strikes were lighter than expected, possibly to conserve low stocks of precision munitions. Perhaps as a result, Russia has not made much use of its warplanes so far, though recent footage appears to show Su-34 bombers over Kharkiv and in the south of Ukraine.
The absence of air superiority has two knock-on effects. One is that soldiers lack proper fixed-wing air support—a historic weakness for Russia because of poor co-ordination between ground troops and air forces, says Guy Plopsky, an expert on the country’s air power. The other is that, because Russia is not sweeping the skies with fighter jets, Ukraine can keep more planes up—something helped by Russia’s sparing use of missiles, which means it is hitting only a few points on airfields, rather than cratering them completely. Ukraine is using its Turkish-made TB2 drones to conduct deadly strikes on unsuspecting Russian forces, who seem to have no idea what is above them. Few experts thought these drones would be usable four days into a war.
All of this points to deeper tactical shortcomings. In modern war different elements, including infantry, armour, artillery, air defence, engineering units and electronic warfare, are supposed to work together, each compensating for the other’s weaknesses. A tank, for instance, provides firepower for the infantry that travel with it; in turn, the infantry can dismount and hunt down anti-tank platoons. Russia is making a hash of this. In some cases, its tactics verge on the suicidal. A video reportedly taken in Bucha, a town north-west of Kyiv, shows a Russian armoured vehicle broadcasting propaganda, instructing civilians to remain calm. A man wielding a rocket-propelled grenade strolls up to the vehicle and calmly destroys it.
One reason for these blunders may be the scale of the Russian deployment. During its previous invasion of Ukraine in 2014-15, Russia sent no more than a dozen or so battalion tactical groups (BTGs) of 1,000-odd troops. This time it has sent well over 100. The result is “diluted BTGs”, as one American armour officer puts it. The intelligence units that would normally pick up signals of a TB2 loitering overhead and the artillery forces that would soften up Ukrainian defenders, as they did in 2015, may not be available in sufficient numbers to deploy into every BTG. “So now you’re leavening your best ingredients into a much larger loaf,” says the officer.
There are signs of poor morale in some units. Video footage shows at least one tank column hurriedly reversing after being confronted by unarmed civilians. Dima Adamsky, an expert on Russia’s armed forces at Reichman University in Israel, says he is surprised by the high numbers of young conscripts. They may be confused as to whether their Ukrainian opponents are brothers bound in “spiritual, human and civilisational ties”, as Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, put it in an essay published last summer, or instruments of drug-addled Nazis, as he thundered recently. In Berdyansk, a port city that fell to Russia on Sunday, local residents openly protested against the Rosgvardia (national guard) troops on their streets.
Some Western officials and military experts conclude that Russia’s army is a paper tiger. “This isn’t a good army executing a bad plan…or out-of-context tactics,” says BA Friedman, a military analyst and reserve officer in the US Marine Corps. “It’s a bad army!” Others are more cautious. They say that Russian tactics may adapt in the days and weeks ahead, and that the country has mass on its side. Russia is yet to deploy a quarter of the forces on Ukraine’s border, according to American officials. One column, its southern end 27km from Kyiv’s centre, stretches over another 27km of road, according to satellite imagery. American officials also say that the Kremlin has sent fighters from the Wagner Group, a Kremlin-linked mercenary outfit, to Ukraine.
Russia has so far worked much harder to avoid civilian casualties than in its air campaign in Syria and than was expected at the start of the conflict, says Mr Adamsky. But the war may be entering an “uglier stage”, he warns. That is evident in Kharkiv. Rockets and cluster munitions have begun targeting residential areas, causing widespread damage to entire blocks of flats. Images show corpses littering the street. The appearance of Su-34 bombers suggests that the city may soon be struck from the air. Mr Putin’s gamble on a quick war has failed—now he appears set on a grim one.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/02/28/the-woes-of-the-russian-war-machine-are-big-and-real-are-they-also-temporary?
“Guy Plopsky, an expert on the country’s air power”
I’m sorry, That sounds like someone from “The Secret of Monkey Island”. :)
Date: 1/03/2022 19:41:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854625
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Let’s hope he’s not exaggerating:
Russia will face the collapse of its economy as a result of Western sanctions punishing Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine, French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said on Tuesday.
The United States and its allies have imposed sanctions on Russia’s central bank, its top businesses, oligarchs and officials, including Vladimir Putin himself, and barred some Russian banks from the Swift international payments system.
“We are going to deliver a total economic and financial war against Russia,” Le Maire told France Info radio. “We are going to provoke the collapse of the Russian economy.”
Date: 1/03/2022 19:58:41
From: Kingy
ID: 1854631
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Large missile hits central Kharkiv. Viewer discretion.
https://twitter.com/bbcrussian/status/1498554020323074050
Date: 1/03/2022 20:37:24
From: Kingy
ID: 1854634
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reported quote from Zelensky:
Missiles darken the skies,
Red army on the rise,
But I must confide,
I don’t need a ride,
I need motherfuckin’ supplies.
Date: 1/03/2022 21:03:08
From: dv
ID: 1854643
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/25/republicans-biden-putin-trump-fox-news-poll
More Republicans have negative view of Biden than of Putin, poll finds
Date: 1/03/2022 21:04:08
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854644
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/25/republicans-biden-putin-trump-fox-news-poll
More Republicans have negative view of Biden than of Putin, poll finds
Why does Rupert back Russia then?
Date: 1/03/2022 21:05:18
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854645
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/25/republicans-biden-putin-trump-fox-news-poll
More Republicans have negative view of Biden than of Putin, poll finds
It was probably similar in the 1930s in regard to Republican perceptions of Hitler and Roosevelt.
Date: 1/03/2022 21:17:42
From: dv
ID: 1854648
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian pilots arrive in Poland to pick up donated fighter jets
Ukrainian pilots have arrived in Poland to start the process of taking control of fighter planes they expect to be donated by European countries, a Ukrainian government official told POLITICO.
The potential transfer of older Russian-made planes to be used in combat against Russian forces could be the most significant moment yet in a wave of promised arms transfers over the past 24 hours that includes thousands of anti-armor rockets, machine guns, artillery and other equipment.
It’s not clear just yet what countries are donating the jets, but European Union security chief Josep Borrell pledged over the weekend that the EU would fund the transfer the fighter planes from multiple countries.
Borrell walked that back slightly on Monday, acknowledging that any transfers wouldn’t come from the EU itself, but would instead be donated “bilaterally” by individual EU countries.
Representatives from the Polish and Slovakian governments did not immediately respond to a request for comment, while Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov on Monday said he had rejected the request.
https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-pilots-arrive-poland-pick-231621686.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACJ49to8jCCX7Revlyvp_B1_qagpWDCb0wVwn41SK7GrDRLGN-m76DZDuwlOefk1TzI7y0Vwj7-NUMRQvwET1eH49UWxv7PwWB7lzZWeRvNK0_VCMZ_fxNE3nQuaUV7M8clH-uDjajCT7zweYA2L7OOvqE5OfcyHSUmrG4DABXUb
Date: 1/03/2022 21:20:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854649
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukrainian pilots arrive in Poland to pick up donated fighter jets
Ukrainian pilots have arrived in Poland to start the process of taking control of fighter planes they expect to be donated by European countries, a Ukrainian government official told POLITICO.
The potential transfer of older Russian-made planes to be used in combat against Russian forces could be the most significant moment yet in a wave of promised arms transfers over the past 24 hours that includes thousands of anti-armor rockets, machine guns, artillery and other equipment.
It’s not clear just yet what countries are donating the jets, but European Union security chief Josep Borrell pledged over the weekend that the EU would fund the transfer the fighter planes from multiple countries.
Borrell walked that back slightly on Monday, acknowledging that any transfers wouldn’t come from the EU itself, but would instead be donated “bilaterally” by individual EU countries.
Representatives from the Polish and Slovakian governments did not immediately respond to a request for comment, while Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov on Monday said he had rejected the request.
https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-pilots-arrive-poland-pick-231621686.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACJ49to8jCCX7Revlyvp_B1_qagpWDCb0wVwn41SK7GrDRLGN-m76DZDuwlOefk1TzI7y0Vwj7-NUMRQvwET1eH49UWxv7PwWB7lzZWeRvNK0_VCMZ_fxNE3nQuaUV7M8clH-uDjajCT7zweYA2L7OOvqE5OfcyHSUmrG4DABXUb
Wonder how long it will take them to get accustomed to unfamiliar planes.
Apparently variants of the ones they’ve been trained to fly can involve quite a lot of differences.
Date: 1/03/2022 21:33:47
From: dv
ID: 1854652
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
So apparently Russia has 9000 T-72 tanks.
Date: 1/03/2022 23:18:13
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1854695
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Shares fall as Russia warned it faces collapse
1 hour ago
Russia-Ukraine war latest news: Zelenskiy tells EU parliament ‘nobody is…
Summer weather data suggests an ‘average’ year, disguising several…
Share prices across Europe fell further on Tuesday as France’s finance minister warned of an economic and financial war against Russia.
There are reports of queues outside Russian cash machines and banks© EPA There are reports of queues outside Russian cash machines and banks
Stock markets in Paris and Germany fell 2.5%, while London’s FTSE 100 index of leading companies was down 1%.
The West has imposed punishing sanctions against Moscow, with another raft of companies winding down Russian operations and halting investment.
Oil prices rose slightly to hover around $100 a barrel.
Having been up in early trading, the FTSE 100 turned negative amid warnings of the consequences of Western sanctions on Moscow and signs that Russian was stepping up its invasion of Ukraine.
On Tuesday, French finance minister Bruno Le Maire gave a stark warning to Moscow if Russia continues its war.
“We will bring about the collapse of the Russian economy,” he told a French broadcaster. “The economic and financial balance of power is totally in favour of the European Union which is in the process of discovering its own economic power.
“We are waging total economic and financial war on Russia,” he said. According to an AFP news agency report of his interview, Mr Le Maire acknowledged that ordinary Russians would also suffer from the impact of the sanctions, “but we don’t know how we can handle this differently”.
Russia’s currency was stable, having collapsed 30% on Monday to record lows against major currencies. There were more pictures on Tuesday of queues at cash machines and banks.
The rouble’s fall cuts its buying power and hits savings of ordinary Russians. The decline was only halted when Russia’s central bank doubled interest rates to make the currency more attractive to investors.
The sanctions stranglehold on Moscow’s finances has hit the central bank’s access to a lot of Russia’s huge reserves of money held in the form of foreign currencies.
Sophie Lund-Yates, equity analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown, said: “This is a fast-moving situation and investors should be mindful of potential share price volatility in the short to medium term.”
Oil prices, which have jumped on fears of a cut in Russian supplies, rose slightly on Tuesday despite US President Joe Biden saying he was considering tapping the vast US reserves to help mitigate potential lost output.
Date: 1/03/2022 23:31:11
From: party_pants
ID: 1854698
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
(snip)
On Tuesday, French finance minister Bruno Le Maire gave a stark warning to Moscow if Russia continues its war.
“We will bring about the collapse of the Russian economy,” he told a French broadcaster. “The economic and financial balance of power is totally in favour of the European Union which is in the process of discovering its own economic power.
“We are waging total economic and financial war on Russia,” he said. According to an AFP news agency report of his interview, Mr Le Maire acknowledged that ordinary Russians would also suffer from the impact of the sanctions, “but we don’t know how we can handle this differently”.
I sincerely hope that this is true and not just empty words from the EU.
Date: 1/03/2022 23:40:37
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854700
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Hey Bubbles, wanna pop on over to the Ukraine and help out?

Date: 1/03/2022 23:51:31
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854703
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Hey Bubbles, wanna pop on over to the Ukraine and help out?

Heh.
Doesn’t seem to be much room for a gunner behind that gun.
Date: 2/03/2022 00:08:23
From: transition
ID: 1854709
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
monkey skipper said:
(snip)
On Tuesday, French finance minister Bruno Le Maire gave a stark warning to Moscow if Russia continues its war.
“We will bring about the collapse of the Russian economy,” he told a French broadcaster. “The economic and financial balance of power is totally in favour of the European Union which is in the process of discovering its own economic power.
“We are waging total economic and financial war on Russia,” he said. According to an AFP news agency report of his interview, Mr Le Maire acknowledged that ordinary Russians would also suffer from the impact of the sanctions, “but we don’t know how we can handle this differently”.
I sincerely hope that this is true and not just empty words from the EU.
wherever it’s going I don’t get much cheer from it, sense of foreboding more so, we seem to live in an age where shouts of victory (and conquest) could disguise the making of that to be conquered
just pick couple words commonly used, say unexpected, and resilience, put them together in a sentence and consider resilience at overcoming the unexpected, eventually resilience might be notionally associated with not just truly unexpected things, but incline a tendency to frame things as unexpected, and then through self-deception generating ‘unexpected’ things
and there seems to me to be something like that in media delivery, it’s something i’ve been thinking about anyway, possibly useless thoughts
certainly humans seem to be in some ‘creative’ territory with overlap between human-caused disasters and natural disasters
nobody wants to much look in the rear-view mirror, yet it’s vital to overtaking safely and more
Date: 2/03/2022 00:30:26
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1854716
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The solace for young Russians like me is that Putin is also digging his own grave in Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/01/young-russians-putin-digging-his-own-grave-ukraine-sanctions
Date: 2/03/2022 04:42:32
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854731
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
apparently they mean carrots

Date: 2/03/2022 05:12:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854735
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
The solace for young Russians like me is that Putin is also digging his own grave in Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/01/young-russians-putin-digging-his-own-grave-ukraine-sanctions
It is a pointless war.
Date: 2/03/2022 05:31:48
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854738
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
The solace for young Russians like me is that Putin is also digging his own grave in Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/01/young-russians-putin-digging-his-own-grave-ukraine-sanctions
It is a pointless war.
Its so pointless that the plank limit is no where to be seen.
Date: 2/03/2022 05:43:35
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854741
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
Hey Bubbles, wanna pop on over to the Ukraine and help out?

Heh.
Doesn’t seem to be much room for a gunner behind that gun.
Where’s the jockey straps and dynabolts?
Date: 2/03/2022 05:48:00
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854742
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Members of the UN Council walking out on the speech of Russia’s Minister of Foreign Affairs

Date: 2/03/2022 05:49:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854743
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In 1996 Ukraine handed over nuclear weapons to Russia “in exchange for a guarantee never to be threatened or invaded”.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/t4cdik/in_1996_ukraine_handed_over_nuclear_weapons_to/
Date: 2/03/2022 05:50:35
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854744
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin is frustrated, lashing out at his inner circle, report says
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/putin-is-frustrated-lashing-out-at-his-inner-circle-report-says/
Date: 2/03/2022 05:52:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854746
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
In 1996 Ukraine handed over nuclear weapons to Russia “in exchange for a guarantee never to be threatened or invaded”.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/t4cdik/in_1996_ukraine_handed_over_nuclear_weapons_to/
Guarantees are only worth the paper they are written on.
Date: 2/03/2022 05:53:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1854747
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putin is frustrated, lashing out at his inner circle, report says
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/putin-is-frustrated-lashing-out-at-his-inner-circle-report-says/
Let’s hope they lash back.. et tu brut
Date: 2/03/2022 05:54:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854748
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 2/03/2022 06:09:35
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854752
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelensky: “Evil, armed with rockets, bombs and artillery, must be stopped immediately. Destroyed economically. We must show that humanity is able to protect themselves”
https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/t43cyz/zelensky_evil_armed_with_rockets_bombs_and/
Date: 2/03/2022 06:14:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1854753
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
More Russian Billionaires Speak Out Against Putin’s War On Ukraine
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2022/02/28/more-russian-billionaires-speak-out-against-putins-war-on-ukraine-alexei-mordashov/?sh=4783a2ed6f66
Date: 2/03/2022 06:56:13
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854755
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
The solace for young Russians like me is that Putin is also digging his own grave in Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/01/young-russians-putin-digging-his-own-grave-ukraine-sanctions
Russia’s new Vietnam (following on from Afghanistan).
Date: 2/03/2022 11:36:42
From: Cymek
ID: 1854833
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The International Paralympic Committee announces that Ukraine will send a delegation of 20 athletes to the upcoming Winter Paralympics in Beijing. (CNN)
We had no athletes going before Russian invasion but they kindly injured enough people for us to send a team
Date: 2/03/2022 11:38:22
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854834
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
The International Paralympic Committee announces that Ukraine will send a delegation of 20 athletes to the upcoming Winter Paralympics in Beijing. (CNN)
We had no athletes going before Russian invasion but they kindly injured enough people for us to send a team
Dear oh dear.
Date: 2/03/2022 11:42:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1854838
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
The International Paralympic Committee announces that Ukraine will send a delegation of 20 athletes to the upcoming Winter Paralympics in Beijing. (CNN)
We had no athletes going before Russian invasion but they kindly injured enough people for us to send a team
Dear oh dear.
It was a bit cheeky but this war has a bleak humour attached to it, way of coping I assume
Date: 2/03/2022 11:48:46
From: Arts
ID: 1854840
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
The International Paralympic Committee announces that Ukraine will send a delegation of 20 athletes to the upcoming Winter Paralympics in Beijing. (CNN)
We had no athletes going before Russian invasion but they kindly injured enough people for us to send a team
dude
Date: 2/03/2022 11:50:29
From: transition
ID: 1854842
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
The International Paralympic Committee announces that Ukraine will send a delegation of 20 athletes to the upcoming Winter Paralympics in Beijing. (CNN)
We had no athletes going before Russian invasion but they kindly injured enough people for us to send a team
Dear oh dear.
It was a bit cheeky but this war has a bleak humour attached to it, way of coping I assume
the decadence, just so long as there is plenty to go between the advertisements, liberating entertainments, news some call it, whatever keeps those markets expanding, next week it could be huge mushroom clouds, again plenty of fill to go between the advertisements
of course it was unexpected, but fortunately people are resilient
Date: 2/03/2022 12:02:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1854844
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
Cymek said:
The International Paralympic Committee announces that Ukraine will send a delegation of 20 athletes to the upcoming Winter Paralympics in Beijing. (CNN)
We had no athletes going before Russian invasion but they kindly injured enough people for us to send a team
dude
Sorry it was a dig at the Russians, the casual violence against people trying to live a life in peace
Date: 2/03/2022 12:15:17
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854845
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 2/03/2022 12:48:13
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854851
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 2/03/2022 12:50:15
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1854854
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
This explains why we can’t see any road traffic on Google Maps.
www.iflscience.com/technology/why-google-maps-has-blocked-live-traffic-data-in-ukraine/
I wonder if certain militaries have access?
Date: 2/03/2022 12:53:27
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1854856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
This explains why we can’t see any road traffic on Google Maps.
www.iflscience.com/technology/why-google-maps-has-blocked-live-traffic-data-in-ukraine/
I wonder if certain militaries have access?
I imagine it would be the ones that aren’t Russian. Though I doubt many of the military would be carrying Android phones for that reason, so it’d mostly be civilian phones getting detected, though that in itself could provide some useful tactical information at times.
Date: 2/03/2022 12:54:24
From: Cymek
ID: 1854857
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
This explains why we can’t see any road traffic on Google Maps.
www.iflscience.com/technology/why-google-maps-has-blocked-live-traffic-data-in-ukraine/
I wonder if certain militaries have access?
They mentioned the “misuse” of such abilities and even the possibility of tracking via phones.
You’d assume soldiers would smuggle in personal phones (them working is probably dependent on location)
You are about to deploy to Ukraine do you wish roaming data capabilities
Date: 2/03/2022 12:55:44
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1854858
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
This explains why we can’t see any road traffic on Google Maps.
www.iflscience.com/technology/why-google-maps-has-blocked-live-traffic-data-in-ukraine/
I wonder if certain militaries have access?
I imagine it would be the ones that aren’t Russian. Though I doubt many of the military would be carrying Android phones for that reason, so it’d mostly be civilian phones getting detected, though that in itself could provide some useful tactical information at times.
Why can’t we have realtime 24/7 satellite coverage like in the movies?
Date: 2/03/2022 13:07:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854863
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 2/03/2022 13:16:06
From: dv
ID: 1854865
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
JudgeMental said:
I wonder if certain militaries have access?
I imagine it would be the ones that aren’t Russian. Though I doubt many of the military would be carrying Android phones for that reason, so it’d mostly be civilian phones getting detected, though that in itself could provide some useful tactical information at times.
Why can’t we have realtime 24/7 satellite coverage like in the movies?
The allied military have realtime 24/7 satellite coverage and presumably they are passing this information to the Ukrainians but it should be obv why it’s not public.
Date: 2/03/2022 13:16:52
From: Cymek
ID: 1854866
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

Spaznaz not Spetsnaz
Date: 2/03/2022 13:19:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854867
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:

Spaznaz not Spetsnaz

…

we mean hey they probably are keeping something in reserve slash hiding something but
to have land and military like Russia but an Economy Must Grow size like Australia, something gotta give right
Date: 2/03/2022 13:19:58
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854868
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

That looks like that is in reference to the Chechen mob and tanks that was wiped out a few days ago.
https://www.axios.com/zelensky-assassination-plot-foiled-7bea049b-2308-4801-b75a-93104c17b82b.html
Danilov said that a unit of elite Chechen special forces, known as Kadyrovites, had been behind the plot and had subsequently been “eliminated.”
“We are well aware of the special operation that was to take place directly by the Kadyrovites to eliminate our president,” Danilov said, per the post.
Ukrainian authorities had been tipped off about the plot by members of Russia’s Federal Security Service who do not support the war, he added.
Date: 2/03/2022 13:29:23
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854869
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-happened-russias-air-force-us-officials-experts-stumped-2022-03-01/
WASHINGTON, March 1 (Reuters) – Before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence had predicted a likely blistering assault by Moscow that would quickly mobilize the vast Russian air power that its military assembled in order to dominate Ukraine’s skies.
But the first six days have confounded those expectations and instead seen Moscow act far more delicately with its air power, so much so that U.S. officials can’t exactly explain what’s driving Russia’s apparent risk-adverse behavior.
“They’re not necessarily willing to take high risks with their own aircraft and their own pilots,” a senior U.S. defense official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defenses are still deemed to be viable — a fact that is baffling military experts.
After the opening salvos of the war on Feb. 24, analysts expected the Russian military to try to immediately destroy Ukraine’s air force and air defenses.
That would have been “the logical and widely anticipated next step, as seen in almost every military conflict since 1938,” wrote the RUSI think-tank in London, in an article called “The Mysterious Case of the Missing Russian Air Force.”
Instead, Ukrainian air force fighter jets are still carrying out low-level, defensive counter-air and ground-attack sorties. Russia is still flying through contested airspace.
Ukrainian troops with surface-to-air rockets are able to threaten Russian aircraft and create risk to Russian pilots trying to support ground forces.
“There’s a lot of stuff they’re doing that’s perplexing,” said Rob Lee, a Russian military specialist at the Foreign Policy Research Institute.
He thought the beginning of the war would be “maximum use of force.”
“Because every day it goes on there’s a cost and the risk goes up. And they’re not doing that and it just is really hard to explain for any realistic reason.”
The confusion over how Russia has used its air force comes as President Joe Biden’s administration rejects calls by Kyiv for a no-fly zone that could draw the United States directly into a conflict with Russia, whose future plans for its air force are unclear.
Military experts have seen evidence of a lack of Russian air force coordination with ground troop formations, with multiple Russian columns of troops sent forward beyond the reach of their own air defense cover.
That leaves Russian soldiers vulnerable to attack from Ukrainian forces, including those newly equipped with Turkish drones and U.S. and British anti-tank missiles.
David Deptula, a retired U.S. Air Force three-star general who once commanded the no-fly zone over northern Iraq, said he was surprised that Russia didn’t work harder to establish air dominance from the start.
“The Russians are discovering that coordinating multi-domain operations is not easy,” Deptula told Reuters. “And that they are not as good as they presumed they were.”
While the Russians have been under-performing, Ukraine’s military has been exceeding expectations so far.
Ukraine’s experience from the last eight years of fighting with Russian-backed separatist forces in the east was dominated by static World War One-style trench warfare.
By contrast Russia’s forces got combat experience in Syria, where they intervened on the side of President Bashar al-Assad, and demonstrated some ability to synchronize ground maneuvers with air and drone attacks.
Ukraine’s ability to keep flying air force jets is a visible demonstration of the country’s resilience in the face of attack and has been a morale booster, both to its own military and Ukraine’s people, experts say.
It has also led to mythologizing of the Ukrainian air force, including a tale about a Ukrainian jet fighter that purportedly single-handedly downed six Russian aircraft, dubbed online as “The Ghost of Kyiv.”
A Reuters Fact Check showed how a clip from the videogame Digital Combat Simulator was miscaptioned online to claim it was an actual Ukrainian fighter jet shooting down a Russian plane.
The United States estimates that Russia is using just over 75 aircraft in its Ukraine invasion, the senior U.S. official said.
Ahead of the invasion, officials had estimated that Russia had potentially readied hundreds of the thousands of aircraft in its air force for a Ukraine mission. However, the senior U.S. official on Tuesday declined to estimate how many Russian combat aircraft, including attack helicopters, might still be available and outside Ukraine.
Both sides are taking losses.
“We do have indications that they’ve lost some (aircraft), but so have the Ukrainians,” the official said.
“The airspace is actively contested every day.”
Date: 2/03/2022 13:31:16
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854870
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“BitConnect founder indicted by Justice Department has disappeared”
This is the sort of news that Bitcoin and other ponz………………other bitcoin type companies don’t need.
Lets not forget that there are 1000 times more people doing bad things with traditional currencies every day.
Date: 2/03/2022 13:33:13
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854873
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
“BitConnect founder indicted by Justice Department has disappeared”
This is the sort of news that Bitcoin and other ponz………………other bitcoin type companies don’t need.
Lets not forget that there are 1000 times more people doing bad things with traditional currencies every day.
Woops, I’ll head off and try and find the chat thread.
Date: 2/03/2022 13:39:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854877
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:

Spaznaz not Spetsnaz

…

we mean hey they probably are keeping something in reserve slash hiding something but
to have land and military like Russia but an Economy Must Grow size like Australia, something gotta give right
Possibly the Russians aren’t as dumb as all that. The may have learnt something from history.
When the British airborne troops were fighting for possession of the bridge at Arnhem late in 1944, one of their biggest problems was communications with forces trying to get up the road to relieve them.
Airborne radios had been fitted with crystals for one set of frequencies. Armoured forces radios with crystals for a different set of wavelengths.
However, the Dutch phone system continued to work just fine throughout the battle.
All the British and Americans had to do was pick up a phone in any house or office, and the Dutch operators could have located the Paras in Arnhem.
Date: 2/03/2022 13:44:31
From: transition
ID: 1854878
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-happened-russias-air-force-us-officials-experts-stumped-2022-03-01/
WASHINGTON, March 1 (Reuters) – Before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence had predicted a likely blistering assault by Moscow that would quickly mobilize the vast Russian air power that its military assembled in order to dominate Ukraine’s skies.
But the first six days have confounded those expectations and instead seen Moscow act far more delicately with its air power, so much so that U.S. officials can’t exactly explain what’s driving Russia’s apparent risk-adverse behavior.
“They’re not necessarily willing to take high risks with their own aircraft and their own pilots,” a senior U.S. defense official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defenses are still deemed to be viable — a fact that is baffling military experts.
After the opening salvos of the war on Feb. 24, analysts expected the Russian military to try to immediately destroy Ukraine’s air force and air defenses.
That would have been “the logical and widely anticipated next step, as seen in almost every military conflict since 1938,” wrote the RUSI think-tank in London, in an article called “The Mysterious Case of the Missing Russian Air Force.”
Instead, Ukrainian air force fighter jets are still carrying out low-level, defensive counter-air and ground-attack sorties. Russia is still flying through contested airspace.
Ukrainian troops with surface-to-air rockets are able to threaten Russian aircraft and create risk to Russian pilots trying to support ground forces.
“There’s a lot of stuff they’re doing that’s perplexing,” said Rob Lee, a Russian military specialist at the Foreign Policy Research Institute.
He thought the beginning of the war would be “maximum use of force.”
“Because every day it goes on there’s a cost and the risk goes up. And they’re not doing that and it just is really hard to explain for any realistic reason.”
The confusion over how Russia has used its air force comes as President Joe Biden’s administration rejects calls by Kyiv for a no-fly zone that could draw the United States directly into a conflict with Russia, whose future plans for its air force are unclear.
Military experts have seen evidence of a lack of Russian air force coordination with ground troop formations, with multiple Russian columns of troops sent forward beyond the reach of their own air defense cover.
That leaves Russian soldiers vulnerable to attack from Ukrainian forces, including those newly equipped with Turkish drones and U.S. and British anti-tank missiles.
David Deptula, a retired U.S. Air Force three-star general who once commanded the no-fly zone over northern Iraq, said he was surprised that Russia didn’t work harder to establish air dominance from the start.
“The Russians are discovering that coordinating multi-domain operations is not easy,” Deptula told Reuters. “And that they are not as good as they presumed they were.”
While the Russians have been under-performing, Ukraine’s military has been exceeding expectations so far.
Ukraine’s experience from the last eight years of fighting with Russian-backed separatist forces in the east was dominated by static World War One-style trench warfare.
By contrast Russia’s forces got combat experience in Syria, where they intervened on the side of President Bashar al-Assad, and demonstrated some ability to synchronize ground maneuvers with air and drone attacks.
Ukraine’s ability to keep flying air force jets is a visible demonstration of the country’s resilience in the face of attack and has been a morale booster, both to its own military and Ukraine’s people, experts say.
It has also led to mythologizing of the Ukrainian air force, including a tale about a Ukrainian jet fighter that purportedly single-handedly downed six Russian aircraft, dubbed online as “The Ghost of Kyiv.”
A Reuters Fact Check showed how a clip from the videogame Digital Combat Simulator was miscaptioned online to claim it was an actual Ukrainian fighter jet shooting down a Russian plane.
The United States estimates that Russia is using just over 75 aircraft in its Ukraine invasion, the senior U.S. official said.
Ahead of the invasion, officials had estimated that Russia had potentially readied hundreds of the thousands of aircraft in its air force for a Ukraine mission. However, the senior U.S. official on Tuesday declined to estimate how many Russian combat aircraft, including attack helicopters, might still be available and outside Ukraine.
Both sides are taking losses.
“We do have indications that they’ve lost some (aircraft), but so have the Ukrainians,” the official said.
“The airspace is actively contested every day.”
plenty time to study the enemy, plenty opportunities to help them reveal themselves, the real enemy
in response the larger enemy might stay dispersed
Date: 2/03/2022 14:07:00
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854886
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I went to bed last night fully expecting to wake up to news that the Russians had finally decided to pull their finger out and have a proper go. Instead, the Ukraine is still holding on, and still (apparently) inflicting serious damage to the invasion force.
Ukrainian Bayraktars reportedly destroyed two columns of Russian vehicles:
- about 80 vehicles in Romen district, half of them Grad MLRS;
- about 100 vehicles at Bishkin village, mostly tanks and AFVs/APCs.

Date: 2/03/2022 14:08:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854888
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
I went to bed last night fully expecting to wake up to news that the Russians had finally decided to pull their finger out and have a proper go. Instead, the Ukraine is still holding on, and still (apparently) inflicting serious damage to the invasion force.
Ukrainian Bayraktars reportedly destroyed two columns of Russian vehicles:
- about 80 vehicles in Romen district, half of them Grad MLRS;
- about 100 vehicles at Bishkin village, mostly tanks and AFVs/APCs.

^
Date: 2/03/2022 14:12:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854891
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 2/03/2022 14:18:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1854893
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
I went to bed last night fully expecting to wake up to news that the Russians had finally decided to pull their finger out and have a proper go. Instead, the Ukraine is still holding on, and still (apparently) inflicting serious damage to the invasion force.
Ukrainian Bayraktars reportedly destroyed two columns of Russian vehicles:
- about 80 vehicles in Romen district, half of them Grad MLRS;
- about 100 vehicles at Bishkin village, mostly tanks and AFVs/APCs.

Perhaps they are aware they may die plus don’t really like the idea of the job so are going slow
Date: 2/03/2022 14:19:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1854894
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
I went to bed last night fully expecting to wake up to news that the Russians had finally decided to pull their finger out and have a proper go. Instead, the Ukraine is still holding on, and still (apparently) inflicting serious damage to the invasion force.
Ukrainian Bayraktars reportedly destroyed two columns of Russian vehicles:
- about 80 vehicles in Romen district, half of them Grad MLRS;
- about 100 vehicles at Bishkin village, mostly tanks and AFVs/APCs.

^
Tanks are a strange weapon, they look and are likely formidable but can be taken out relatively easy with the right weapon and being inside one would not be a nice way to die if they are attacked.
Date: 2/03/2022 14:24:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854895
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tanks are a strange weapon, they look and are likely formidable but can be taken out relatively easy with the right weapon and being inside one would not be a nice way to die if they are attacked.
well at least they’re to date driven by humans who apparently often don’t simply push on and squash the people wandering in front of them but then there’s this if you try to strike from a distance instead
Four people were killed when homes in the Ukrainian city of Zhytomyr were hit by a Russian cruise missile apparently aimed at a nearby air base, an adviser to the Ukrainian interior minister says.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-02/four-dead-in-russian-strike-on-ukrainian-city-of-zhytomyr/100875056
Date: 2/03/2022 14:27:21
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854897
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
I went to bed last night fully expecting to wake up to news that the Russians had finally decided to pull their finger out and have a proper go. Instead, the Ukraine is still holding on, and still (apparently) inflicting serious damage to the invasion force.
Ukrainian Bayraktars reportedly destroyed two columns of Russian vehicles:
- about 80 vehicles in Romen district, half of them Grad MLRS;
- about 100 vehicles at Bishkin village, mostly tanks and AFVs/APCs.

^
Tanks are a strange weapon, they look and are likely formidable but can be taken out relatively easy with the right weapon and being inside one would not be a nice way to die if they are attacked.
Cunning weapons against tanks now, they only need a small penetration of they armour then they pump in the liquidish explosive into the tank and explode that, apparently.
Date: 2/03/2022 14:37:30
From: dv
ID: 1854898
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
1
Ukrainian authorities had been tipped off about the plot by members of Russia’s Federal Security Service who do not support the war, he added.
Huge if true
Date: 2/03/2022 14:48:03
From: Cymek
ID: 1854899
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
1
Ukrainian authorities had been tipped off about the plot by members of Russia’s Federal Security Service who do not support the war, he added.
Huge if true
Could see Putin removed, soldiers turn up at his dacha to take him into custody.
Putin “You’ll not take me willingly, you’ll have to kill me before I leave”
Soldiers “We do take requests”
Date: 2/03/2022 14:55:47
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1854901
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
^
Tanks are a strange weapon, they look and are likely formidable but can be taken out relatively easy with the right weapon and being inside one would not be a nice way to die if they are attacked.
Cunning weapons against tanks now, they only need a small penetration of they armour then they pump in the liquidish explosive into the tank and explode that, apparently.
That’s been around for a very long time, since the principle of shaped charges was worked out.
There’s other equally horrendous things, like HESH (high explosive squash head) ammunition and APDS (armour piercing discarding-sabot) to name just a couple of basic categories.
Date: 2/03/2022 14:58:11
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854902
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
1
Ukrainian authorities had been tipped off about the plot by members of Russia’s Federal Security Service who do not support the war, he added.
Huge if true
Could see Putin removed, soldiers turn up at his dacha to take him into custody.
Putin “You’ll not take me willingly, you’ll have to kill me before I leave”
Soldiers “We do take requests”
wait if there was anything the Russians seemed to be able to do successfully it was to reach their espionage activities across the globe
though now come to think about it that seems more commonly in Russian apologist countries like the UK than in the Ukraine so who knows
Date: 2/03/2022 15:36:33
From: Michael V
ID: 1854921
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
1
Ukrainian authorities had been tipped off about the plot by members of Russia’s Federal Security Service who do not support the war, he added.
Huge if true
Yes.
Date: 2/03/2022 16:36:13
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854948
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
dv said:
1
Ukrainian authorities had been tipped off about the plot by members of Russia’s Federal Security Service who do not support the war, he added.
Huge if true
Yes.
Although I wonder about the reasoning behind making such statement. If Russian Secret Service was indeed the source of the intel, would you really burn your contacts in such a manner?
On the other hand, if you acquired the info yourselves or via a friendly nation and know your enemy is paranoid, making such false statements could be a means of destabilising the security organising.
Date: 2/03/2022 16:36:50
From: esselte
ID: 1854949
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
The International Paralympic Committee announces that Ukraine will send a delegation of 20 athletes to the upcoming Winter Paralympics in Beijing. (CNN)
We had no athletes going before Russian invasion but they kindly injured enough people for us to send a team
Dear oh dear.
It was a bit cheeky but this war has a bleak humour attached to it, way of coping I assume
People keep saying this Zelenskyy guy is a comedian but I’ve been watching some of his press conferences over the last few days and I don’t think he’s that funny TBH.
Date: 2/03/2022 16:37:41
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854951
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/804441.html
No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income – NAPC
Ukraine’s National Agency for the Protection against Corruption (NAPC) has declared that captured Russian tanks and other equipment are not subject to declaration.
“Have you captured a Russian tank or armored personnel carrier and are worried about how to declare it? Keep calm and continue to defend the Motherland! There is no need to declare the captured Russian tanks and other equipment, because the cost of this … does not exceed 100 living wages (UAH 248,100),” NAPC’s press service said.
Also, there is no need in this case to submit reports of significant changes in property status within 10 days.
“Speaking by the letter of the law, combat trophies are not subject to reflection in the declaration for the following reasons: they were acquired not as a result of the conclusion of any type of transaction, but in connection with the full-scale aggression of the Russian Federation on February 24, 2022 against the independent and sovereign Ukrainian state as a continuation the insidious attack of the Russian Federation on Ukraine launched in 2014. Thanks to the courage and victory of the defenders of the Ukrainian state, enemy military equipment usually comes to you already destroyed and disabled, which makes it impossible to evaluate it in accordance with the law On the valuation of property, property rights and professional valuation activities in Ukraine. Therefore, it is also impossible to find out how much such property costs,” the NACP said.
At the same time, the NACP continues to ensure the technical possibility of providing notifications of significant changes in the property status for the acquisition of objects seized from the Russian army, if there is a desire to declare same.
Date: 2/03/2022 16:40:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1854952
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/804441.html
No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income – NAPC
Ukraine’s National Agency for the Protection against Corruption (NAPC) has declared that captured Russian tanks and other equipment are not subject to declaration.
“Have you captured a Russian tank or armored personnel carrier and are worried about how to declare it? Keep calm and continue to defend the Motherland! There is no need to declare the captured Russian tanks and other equipment, because the cost of this … does not exceed 100 living wages (UAH 248,100),” NAPC’s press service said.
Also, there is no need in this case to submit reports of significant changes in property status within 10 days.
“Speaking by the letter of the law, combat trophies are not subject to reflection in the declaration for the following reasons: they were acquired not as a result of the conclusion of any type of transaction, but in connection with the full-scale aggression of the Russian Federation on February 24, 2022 against the independent and sovereign Ukrainian state as a continuation the insidious attack of the Russian Federation on Ukraine launched in 2014. Thanks to the courage and victory of the defenders of the Ukrainian state, enemy military equipment usually comes to you already destroyed and disabled, which makes it impossible to evaluate it in accordance with the law On the valuation of property, property rights and professional valuation activities in Ukraine. Therefore, it is also impossible to find out how much such property costs,” the NACP said.
At the same time, the NACP continues to ensure the technical possibility of providing notifications of significant changes in the property status for the acquisition of objects seized from the Russian army, if there is a desire to declare same.
so that’s why they were devaluing the Russian currency eh, the fucking manipulators
Date: 2/03/2022 16:45:35
From: dv
ID: 1854954
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Dear oh dear.
It was a bit cheeky but this war has a bleak humour attached to it, way of coping I assume
People keep saying this Zelenskyy guy is a comedian but I’ve been watching some of his press conferences over the last few days and I don’t think he’s that funny TBH.
ikr would it hurt him to crack a smile?
Date: 2/03/2022 17:00:39
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854957
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Putin may circle Kyiv with tanks but he’ll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people,” President Biden said.
And fair enough too.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:28:31
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854963
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 2/03/2022 17:34:23
From: sibeen
ID: 1854964
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:

The Australian Government will provide at least 15,000 places for Afghan nationals, through our Humanitarian and Family Visa Program over four years. This reflects a sustained commitment following Australia’s two decades of operations in the country. This increased allocation includes 10,000 places for Afghan nationals within Australia’s existing Humanitarian Program and at least 5,000 visas within the Family stream.
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/commitment-to-afghanistan-increased.aspx
Date: 2/03/2022 17:35:03
From: furious
ID: 1854965
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:

Maybe they should send the extra Afghanis to Ukraine, they know how to see off a Russian occupation…
Date: 2/03/2022 17:37:34
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854966
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
sarahs mum said:

The Australian Government will provide at least 15,000 places for Afghan nationals, through our Humanitarian and Family Visa Program over four years. This reflects a sustained commitment following Australia’s two decades of operations in the country. This increased allocation includes 10,000 places for Afghan nationals within Australia’s existing Humanitarian Program and at least 5,000 visas within the Family stream.
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/commitment-to-afghanistan-increased.aspx
What they said.
What they did.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:39:17
From: sibeen
ID: 1854967
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sibeen said:
sarahs mum said:

The Australian Government will provide at least 15,000 places for Afghan nationals, through our Humanitarian and Family Visa Program over four years. This reflects a sustained commitment following Australia’s two decades of operations in the country. This increased allocation includes 10,000 places for Afghan nationals within Australia’s existing Humanitarian Program and at least 5,000 visas within the Family stream.
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/commitment-to-afghanistan-increased.aspx
What they said.
What they did.
The media release was just over a month ago.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:39:18
From: dv
ID: 1854968
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 2/03/2022 17:41:10
From: Arts
ID: 1854971
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

the air is lava.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:42:38
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1854973
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sibeen said:
sarahs mum said:

The Australian Government will provide at least 15,000 places for Afghan nationals, through our Humanitarian and Family Visa Program over four years. This reflects a sustained commitment following Australia’s two decades of operations in the country. This increased allocation includes 10,000 places for Afghan nationals within Australia’s existing Humanitarian Program and at least 5,000 visas within the Family stream.
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/commitment-to-afghanistan-increased.aspx
What they said.
What they did.
“Since evacuations commenced from Kabul in August, more than 4,300 Afghan evacuees have been brought to Australia and are in the process of securing permanent visas over coming months, as they establish their lives in their new home,” he said.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:44:06
From: sibeen
ID: 1854975
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
sibeen said:
The Australian Government will provide at least 15,000 places for Afghan nationals, through our Humanitarian and Family Visa Program over four years. This reflects a sustained commitment following Australia’s two decades of operations in the country. This increased allocation includes 10,000 places for Afghan nationals within Australia’s existing Humanitarian Program and at least 5,000 visas within the Family stream.
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/commitment-to-afghanistan-increased.aspx
What they said.
What they did.
“Since evacuations commenced from Kabul in August, more than 4,300 Afghan evacuees have been brought to Australia and are in the process of securing permanent visas over coming months, as they establish their lives in their new home,” he said.
So you agree that she’s full of shit then.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:48:56
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854977
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
sarahs mum said:
sarahs mum said:
What they said.
What they did.
“Since evacuations commenced from Kabul in August, more than 4,300 Afghan evacuees have been brought to Australia and are in the process of securing permanent visas over coming months, as they establish their lives in their new home,” he said.
So you agree that she’s full of shit then.
To be fair, she said “no additional places”. How many Afghan immigrants does Australia normally take in on an annual basis? More or less than 3500?
Date: 2/03/2022 17:51:32
From: sibeen
ID: 1854979
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
sibeen said:
sarahs mum said:
“Since evacuations commenced from Kabul in August, more than 4,300 Afghan evacuees have been brought to Australia and are in the process of securing permanent visas over coming months, as they establish their lives in their new home,” he said.
So you agree that she’s full of shit then.
To be fair, she said “no additional places”. How many Afghan immigrants does Australia normally take in on an annual basis? More or less than 3500?
Australia’s current annual humanitarian intake, from all countries, is 13,750 people.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:51:46
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854980
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
An article by the propaganda publication RIA Novosti, which was to be published after the occupation of Ukraine, is preserved in the Web Archive. The Kremlin’s propaganda publication RIA-Novosti accidentally published an article that was to be published after the rapid occupation of Ukraine. It was quickly removed, but the Internet Archive web service managed to save it.
It describes Putin’s imperial plans for the total Russification of Ukraine and Belarus and change of the world order.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html
Date: 2/03/2022 17:55:21
From: Cymek
ID: 1854982
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
An article by the propaganda publication RIA Novosti, which was to be published after the occupation of Ukraine, is preserved in the Web Archive. The Kremlin’s propaganda publication RIA-Novosti accidentally published an article that was to be published after the rapid occupation of Ukraine. It was quickly removed, but the Internet Archive web service managed to save it.
It describes Putin’s imperial plans for the total Russification of Ukraine and Belarus and change of the world order.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html
How will this all play out, can’t end well for someone(s)
Putin could get upset enough to lash out at whom he sees as the troublemakers.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:55:40
From: sibeen
ID: 1854983
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
sibeen said:
sarahs mum said:
“Since evacuations commenced from Kabul in August, more than 4,300 Afghan evacuees have been brought to Australia and are in the process of securing permanent visas over coming months, as they establish their lives in their new home,” he said.
So you agree that she’s full of shit then.
To be fair, she said “no additional places”. How many Afghan immigrants does Australia normally take in on an annual basis? More or less than 3500?
I mean this was a fairly big deal after the pullout from Afghanistan – it made the news and everything. To deny that the government was offering additional place to Afghans is either clueless or just put lying.
Date: 2/03/2022 17:57:31
From: Cymek
ID: 1854984
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
sibeen said:
So you agree that she’s full of shit then.
To be fair, she said “no additional places”. How many Afghan immigrants does Australia normally take in on an annual basis? More or less than 3500?
I mean this was a fairly big deal after the pullout from Afghanistan – it made the news and everything. To deny that the government was offering additional place to Afghans is either clueless or just put lying.
The solution to refugees is really to make sure were they live is safe and they don’t leave for fear of death
Date: 2/03/2022 18:07:25
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1854986
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
An article by the propaganda publication RIA Novosti, which was to be published after the occupation of Ukraine, is preserved in the Web Archive. The Kremlin’s propaganda publication RIA-Novosti accidentally published an article that was to be published after the rapid occupation of Ukraine. It was quickly removed, but the Internet Archive web service managed to save it.
It describes Putin’s imperial plans for the total Russification of Ukraine and Belarus and change of the world order.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html
How will this all play out, can’t end well for someone(s)
Putin could get upset enough to lash out at whom he sees as the troublemakers.
I am optimistic that his cronies and henchmen will see that the path being taken will be the end of no only their riches and power, but Russia as a whole and will take it upon themselves to fix it.
Date: 2/03/2022 18:07:51
From: Cymek
ID: 1854987
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
To be fair, she said “no additional places”. How many Afghan immigrants does Australia normally take in on an annual basis? More or less than 3500?
I mean this was a fairly big deal after the pullout from Afghanistan – it made the news and everything. To deny that the government was offering additional place to Afghans is either clueless or just put lying.
The solution to refugees is really to make sure were they live is safe and they don’t leave for fear of death
I wonder what the reasoning for denying them is, cost plus racism perhaps
Fair enough you can’t take hundreds of thousands as its logistically difficult to cope with such numbers of people.
Not going to get better though, likely far worse as climate change really starts to kick in, probably mild at the moment
Date: 2/03/2022 18:24:32
From: Cymek
ID: 1854992
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
An article by the propaganda publication RIA Novosti, which was to be published after the occupation of Ukraine, is preserved in the Web Archive. The Kremlin’s propaganda publication RIA-Novosti accidentally published an article that was to be published after the rapid occupation of Ukraine. It was quickly removed, but the Internet Archive web service managed to save it.
It describes Putin’s imperial plans for the total Russification of Ukraine and Belarus and change of the world order.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html
How will this all play out, can’t end well for someone(s)
Putin could get upset enough to lash out at whom he sees as the troublemakers.
I am optimistic that his cronies and henchmen will see that the path being taken will be the end of no only their riches and power, but Russia as a whole and will take it upon themselves to fix it.
Yes that seems likely
Date: 2/03/2022 18:24:44
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854993
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kamala Harris explains the current conflict to the intellectuals and says how evil it is for a country to invade another one.
“So, Ukraine is a country in Europe,” the VP began explaining to ‘The Morning Hustle’.
“It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong, and it goes against everything that we stand for.”
Date: 2/03/2022 18:26:14
From: Cymek
ID: 1854996
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Kamala Harris explains the current conflict to the intellectuals and says how evil it is for a country to invade another one.
“So, Ukraine is a country in Europe,” the VP began explaining to ‘The Morning Hustle’.
“It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong, and it goes against everything that we stand for.”
The irony does exist doesn’t it
Date: 2/03/2022 18:28:19
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1854998
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Kamala Harris explains the current conflict to the intellectuals and says how evil it is for a country to invade another one.
“So, Ukraine is a country in Europe,” the VP began explaining to ‘The Morning Hustle’.
“It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong, and it goes against everything that we stand for.”
The irony does exist doesn’t it
Aye.
Date: 2/03/2022 18:40:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855001
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Kamala Harris explains the current conflict to the intellectuals and says how evil it is for a country to invade another one.
“So, Ukraine is a country in Europe,” the VP began explaining to ‘The Morning Hustle’.
“It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong, and it goes against everything that we stand for.”
The irony does exist doesn’t it
Aye.
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Date: 2/03/2022 18:46:22
From: Cymek
ID: 1855002
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
The irony does exist doesn’t it
Aye.
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Canada was early this century in the Terrence and Phillip war
Date: 2/03/2022 18:59:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1855003
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
An article by the propaganda publication RIA Novosti, which was to be published after the occupation of Ukraine, is preserved in the Web Archive. The Kremlin’s propaganda publication RIA-Novosti accidentally published an article that was to be published after the rapid occupation of Ukraine. It was quickly removed, but the Internet Archive web service managed to save it.
It describes Putin’s imperial plans for the total Russification of Ukraine and Belarus and change of the world order.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html
Ooh-ah!
Date: 2/03/2022 19:03:52
From: dv
ID: 1855005
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Kamala Harris explains the current conflict to the intellectuals and says how evil it is for a country to invade another one.
“So, Ukraine is a country in Europe,” the VP began explaining to ‘The Morning Hustle’.
“It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So, basically, that’s wrong, and it goes against everything that we stand for.”
The irony does exist doesn’t it
Aye.
In fairness it has been a while since the US invaded a neighbouring country.
Date: 2/03/2022 19:08:37
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855007
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
The irony does exist doesn’t it
Aye.
In fairness it has been a while since the US invaded a neighbouring country.
coughGrenadacough
Although the Cubans already had representatives of their armed forces there, after some dodgy election business, and they were being very busy chaps indeed.
Date: 2/03/2022 19:09:09
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1855008
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Aye.
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Canada was early this century in the Terrence and Phillip war
And such is the power of American censorship that I didn’t even know about it.
Date: 2/03/2022 19:15:43
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1855009
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Canada was early this century in the Terrence and Phillip war
And such is the power of American censorship that I didn’t even know about it.
Who could forget the bombing of the Baldwins…
Date: 2/03/2022 19:16:48
From: dv
ID: 1855010
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Cymek said:
The irony does exist doesn’t it
Aye.
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Also I suppose it depends on who she means by “we”. The Democrats haven’t instigated an according-to-Hoyle invasion since the Vietnam War.
My main complaint is that she sounds as though she is explaining it to a 5 year old child, but perhaps there was some context to the question that would give reason to that. I would hope anyone would be able to give a better summary of why it is in US interests to oppose this particular invasion.
Date: 2/03/2022 19:20:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855011
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Aye.
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Also I suppose it depends on who she means by “we”. The Democrats haven’t instigated an according-to-Hoyle invasion since the Vietnam War.
My main complaint is that she sounds as though she is explaining it to a 5 year old child, but perhaps there was some context to the question that would give reason to that. I would hope anyone would be able to give a better summary of why it is in US interests to oppose this particular invasion.
You do have to bear in mind that she was talking to an early-morning TV audience of Americans, many of whom have a grasp of geography that acknowledges Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and that’s about it.
Date: 2/03/2022 19:31:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1855013
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:
Canada was early this century in the Terrence and Phillip war
And such is the power of American censorship that I didn’t even know about it.
Who could forget the bombing of the Baldwins…
Terrible day
Date: 2/03/2022 19:33:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1855014
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Also I suppose it depends on who she means by “we”. The Democrats haven’t instigated an according-to-Hoyle invasion since the Vietnam War.
My main complaint is that she sounds as though she is explaining it to a 5 year old child, but perhaps there was some context to the question that would give reason to that. I would hope anyone would be able to give a better summary of why it is in US interests to oppose this particular invasion.
You do have to bear in mind that she was talking to an early-morning TV audience of Americans, many of whom have a grasp of geography that acknowledges Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and that’s about it.
Early morning tv chat shows are horrible and that’s the Australian ones, can only imagine in my worse nightmares the US ones
Date: 2/03/2022 19:35:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1855015
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Also I suppose it depends on who she means by “we”. The Democrats haven’t instigated an according-to-Hoyle invasion since the Vietnam War.
My main complaint is that she sounds as though she is explaining it to a 5 year old child, but perhaps there was some context to the question that would give reason to that. I would hope anyone would be able to give a better summary of why it is in US interests to oppose this particular invasion.
You do have to bear in mind that she was talking to an early-morning TV audience of Americans, many of whom have a grasp of geography that acknowledges Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and that’s about it.
So true, IME.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:00:53
From: Woodie
ID: 1855020
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
What is the definition of “Russian aircraft”?
Aeroflot flight 222 using a Boeing or Airbus aircraft?
Mr Poo Tin’s or Mr Olly Gark’s personal Learjet?
or just MiG jet fighters?
Date: 2/03/2022 20:04:44
From: Michael V
ID: 1855022
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
What is the definition of “Russian aircraft”?
Aeroflot flight 222 using a Boeing or Airbus aircraft?
Mr Poo Tin’s or Mr Olly Gark’s personal Learjet?
or just MiG jet fighters?
All those.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:06:06
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855023
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
What is the definition of “Russian aircraft”?
Aeroflot flight 222 using a Boeing or Airbus aircraft?
Mr Poo Tin’s or Mr Olly Gark’s personal Learjet?
or just MiG jet fighters?
Aircraft with Russian registration, I would assume.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:09:25
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855024
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Yeah, but the US hasn’t invaded either Canada or Mexico for quite a while now.
Also I suppose it depends on who she means by “we”. The Democrats haven’t instigated an according-to-Hoyle invasion since the Vietnam War.
My main complaint is that she sounds as though she is explaining it to a 5 year old child, but perhaps there was some context to the question that would give reason to that. I would hope anyone would be able to give a better summary of why it is in US interests to oppose this particular invasion.
You do have to bear in mind that she was talking to an early-morning TV audience of Americans, many of whom have a grasp of geography that acknowledges Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and that’s about it.
The old phrase, ‘one of the purposes of war is to teach Americans geography’ springs to mind.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:09:38
From: Woodie
ID: 1855025
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Woodie said:
What is the definition of “Russian aircraft”?
Aeroflot flight 222 using a Boeing or Airbus aircraft?
Mr Poo Tin’s or Mr Olly Gark’s personal Learjet?
or just MiG jet fighters?
All those.
Who says so? I can’t find any definition of what is classed as a “Russian aircraft”.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:12:03
From: Woodie
ID: 1855026
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Woodie said:
What is the definition of “Russian aircraft”?
Aeroflot flight 222 using a Boeing or Airbus aircraft?
Mr Poo Tin’s or Mr Olly Gark’s personal Learjet?
or just MiG jet fighters?
Aircraft with Russian registration, I would assume.
So you don’t know either?
Could Mr Poo Tin’s personal Learjet be registered in Liberia or the Cayman Islands?
Date: 2/03/2022 20:13:35
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855027
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Michael V said:
Woodie said:
What is the definition of “Russian aircraft”?
Aeroflot flight 222 using a Boeing or Airbus aircraft?
Mr Poo Tin’s or Mr Olly Gark’s personal Learjet?
or just MiG jet fighters?
All those.
Who says so? I can’t find any definition of what is classed as a “Russian aircraft”.
Airbus is made in Europe but not with any parts from Russia, I think. Boeing is from the USA.
Illusion and Tupolev are made in Russia. Antonov is Ukrainian. There’s also Sukhoi & MiG but they are pretty much military only.
Aeroflot use various aircraft from all over. Gimme a minute I’ll find out what their fleet consists of.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:14:51
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855028
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Woodie said:
Michael V said:
All those.
Who says so? I can’t find any definition of what is classed as a “Russian aircraft”.
Airbus is made in Europe but not with any parts from Russia, I think. Boeing is from the USA.
Illusion and Tupolev are made in Russia. Antonov is Ukrainian. There’s also Sukhoi & MiG but they are pretty much military only.
Aeroflot use various aircraft from all over. Gimme a minute I’ll find out what their fleet consists of.
Lots of Airbus’s & Boeings, plus a couple of odd ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_fleet
Date: 2/03/2022 20:15:14
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855029
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Dark Orange said:
Woodie said:
What is the definition of “Russian aircraft”?
Aeroflot flight 222 using a Boeing or Airbus aircraft?
Mr Poo Tin’s or Mr Olly Gark’s personal Learjet?
or just MiG jet fighters?
Aircraft with Russian registration, I would assume.
So you don’t know either?
Could Mr Poo Tin’s personal Learjet be registered in Liberia or the Cayman Islands?
Not impossible, though unlikely.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:29:15
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855035
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Woodie said:
Dark Orange said:
Aircraft with Russian registration, I would assume.
So you don’t know either?
Could Mr Poo Tin’s personal Learjet be registered in Liberia or the Cayman Islands?
Not impossible, though unlikely.
At least a couple of the oligarch’s planes are registered in Russia.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:36:11
From: Woodie
ID: 1855037
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Spiny Norman said:
Woodie said:
Who says so? I can’t find any definition of what is classed as a “Russian aircraft”.
Airbus is made in Europe but not with any parts from Russia, I think. Boeing is from the USA.
Illusion and Tupolev are made in Russia. Antonov is Ukrainian. There’s also Sukhoi & MiG but they are pretty much military only.
Aeroflot use various aircraft from all over. Gimme a minute I’ll find out what their fleet consists of.
Lots of Airbus’s & Boeings, plus a couple of odd ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_fleet
So would they be classed as “Russian aircraft” if the pilot was Russian?
Date: 2/03/2022 20:37:00
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855038
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
Woodie said:
So you don’t know either?
Could Mr Poo Tin’s personal Learjet be registered in Liberia or the Cayman Islands?
Not impossible, though unlikely.
At least a couple of the oligarch’s planes are registered in Russia.
It reminds me of a day or two after the 9/11 attacks in New York. I was in Algeria and we were flying for Air Algerie. The company decided to pack up and get the hell out of there, so we did that and made a beeline for Mansten in the eastern UK.
We had an Air Algerie callsign, an Icelandic registration, and an Australian me working the radio. I cranked up the accent a little the further north we went.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:38:05
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855040
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Spiny Norman said:
Spiny Norman said:
Airbus is made in Europe but not with any parts from Russia, I think. Boeing is from the USA.
Illusion and Tupolev are made in Russia. Antonov is Ukrainian. There’s also Sukhoi & MiG but they are pretty much military only.
Aeroflot use various aircraft from all over. Gimme a minute I’ll find out what their fleet consists of.
Lots of Airbus’s & Boeings, plus a couple of odd ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_fleet
So would they be classed as “Russian aircraft” if the pilot was Russian?
No, only if the aircraft was being operated by Aeroflot. The crew’s nationality isn’t relevant.
Date: 2/03/2022 20:46:03
From: sibeen
ID: 1855042
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
Spiny Norman said:
Not impossible, though unlikely.
At least a couple of the oligarch’s planes are registered in Russia.
It reminds me of a day or two after the 9/11 attacks in New York. I was in Algeria and we were flying for Air Algerie. The company decided to pack up and get the hell out of there, so we did that and made a beeline for Mansten in the eastern UK.
We had an Air Algerie callsign, an Icelandic registration, and an Australian me working the radio. I cranked up the accent a little the further north we went.
The time I got pulled over outside Belfast airport and about 20 guns pointed at me. The strine came out big time. As we were walking away SWMBO was “wtf was that?”
:)
Date: 2/03/2022 21:01:20
From: Woodie
ID: 1855046
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Woodie said:
Spiny Norman said:
Lots of Airbus’s & Boeings, plus a couple of odd ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_fleet
So would they be classed as “Russian aircraft” if the pilot was Russian?
No, only if the aircraft was being operated by Aeroflot. The crew’s nationality isn’t relevant.
At least the Ruskies are a little more specific as to what they’ve banned.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-imposes-sweeping-flight-bans-airlines-36-countries-2022-02-28/
….. and did that make the news here in an even and balanced way?
Date: 2/03/2022 21:16:33
From: Woodie
ID: 1855052
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“We are shutting down EU airspace for Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft,” she said.
All such planes, including the private jets of oligarchs, will now be unable to land in, take off from or fly over any EU nation.”
and in the same article:
“Russia’s biggest airline, Aeroflot, said it would cancel all flights to European destinations until further notice in a retaliatory move on Sunday.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60539303
Say wah??? So….. let me see…… The EU says no to Ruskie planes. The Ruskies say, as a retaliatory move “Stuff you, we’ll cancel all our flights then.”
Date: 2/03/2022 21:17:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855054
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
“We are shutting down EU airspace for Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft,” she said.
All such planes, including the private jets of oligarchs, will now be unable to land in, take off from or fly over any EU nation.”
and in the same article:
“Russia’s biggest airline, Aeroflot, said it would cancel all flights to European destinations until further notice in a retaliatory move on Sunday.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60539303
Say wah??? So….. let me see…… The EU says no to Ruskie planes. The Ruskies say, as a retaliatory move “Stuff you, we’ll cancel all our flights then.”
isn’t it wonderful when both sides of a conflict can agree on things
Date: 2/03/2022 21:17:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855055
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Spiny Norman said:
Woodie said:
So would they be classed as “Russian aircraft” if the pilot was Russian?
No, only if the aircraft was being operated by Aeroflot. The crew’s nationality isn’t relevant.
At least the Ruskies are a little more specific as to what they’ve banned.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-imposes-sweeping-flight-bans-airlines-36-countries-2022-02-28/
….. and did that make the news here in an even and balanced way?
I’m sure those countries are now mortally offended that they can no longer fly over Putin’s shithole.
Date: 2/03/2022 21:21:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855056
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
“We are shutting down EU airspace for Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft,” she said.
All such planes, including the private jets of oligarchs, will now be unable to land in, take off from or fly over any EU nation.”
and in the same article:
“Russia’s biggest airline, Aeroflot, said it would cancel all flights to European destinations until further notice in a retaliatory move on Sunday.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60539303
Say wah??? So….. let me see…… The EU says no to Ruskie planes. The Ruskies say, as a retaliatory move “Stuff you, we’ll cancel all our flights then.”
They’re probably also going to ban dollars, now that they have none left and can no longer exchange rubles for real money.
Date: 2/03/2022 22:25:39
From: Michael V
ID: 1855088
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
“We are shutting down EU airspace for Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft,” she said.
All such planes, including the private jets of oligarchs, will now be unable to land in, take off from or fly over any EU nation.”
and in the same article:
“Russia’s biggest airline, Aeroflot, said it would cancel all flights to European destinations until further notice in a retaliatory move on Sunday.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60539303
Say wah??? So….. let me see…… The EU says no to Ruskie planes. The Ruskies say, as a retaliatory move “Stuff you, we’ll cancel all our flights then.”
LOL
Date: 2/03/2022 22:48:20
From: dv
ID: 1855092
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Woodie said:
“We are shutting down EU airspace for Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft,” she said.
All such planes, including the private jets of oligarchs, will now be unable to land in, take off from or fly over any EU nation.”
and in the same article:
“Russia’s biggest airline, Aeroflot, said it would cancel all flights to European destinations until further notice in a retaliatory move on Sunday.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60539303
Say wah??? So….. let me see…… The EU says no to Ruskie planes. The Ruskies say, as a retaliatory move “Stuff you, we’ll cancel all our flights then.”
LOL
Kind of reminds of the antimaskers boycotting places they already weren’t allowed in
Date: 2/03/2022 23:29:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855101
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-captures-ukrainian-city-kherson-ria-2022-03-02/
MOSCOW, March 2 (Reuters) – Russia’s defence ministry said on Wednesday Russian armed forces have captured the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, RIA news agency reported.
WASHINGTON/KYIV/KHARKIV, March 2 (Reuters) – Ukrainians said they were fighting on in the first sizeable city Russia claimed to have seized, while Moscow stepped up its lethal bombardment of major population centres that its invasion force has so far failed to tame.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/top-wrap-1-ukraines-besieged-cities-brace-more-russian-attacks-2022-03-02/
Date: 3/03/2022 02:00:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855157
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 3/03/2022 02:08:50
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855158
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/02/russian-paratroopers-storm-kharkiv-devastating-rocket-attacks/
Russian paratroopers storm Kharkiv after devastating rocket attacks
Meanwhile, the deputy mayor of Mariupol says:
“One district of the city is nearly totally destroyed … We cannot count the number of victims there but we believe at least hundreds of people are dead. We cannot go in to retrieve the bodies. My father lives there, I cannot reach him, I don’t know if he is alive or dead.”
But it’s not all bad news.
https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/2-march-russian-military-ship-near-odesa-caught-fire-
Date: 3/03/2022 02:39:37
From: dv
ID: 1855161
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine crisis: Belarus leader may have inadvertently revealed Russian invasion map on TV
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lukashenko-ukraine-russia-belarus-invasion-map-b2026440.html
Date: 3/03/2022 05:46:11
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855167
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
George Monbiot coming out against the lies of Pilger. Although why he would “respect” such a creep is a mystery.
To me, Pilger and his Kremlin parrot-speak illustrate why the anti-democratic far left are just as depraved as their mates on the far right:
We must confront Russian propaganda – even when it comes from those we respect
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/russian-propaganda-anti-imperialist-left-vladimir-putin
Date: 3/03/2022 08:44:44
From: sibeen
ID: 1855196
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
George Monbiot coming out against the lies of Pilger. Although why he would “respect” such a creep is a mystery.
To me, Pilger and his Kremlin parrot-speak illustrate why the anti-democratic far left are just as depraved as their mates on the far right:
We must confront Russian propaganda – even when it comes from those we respect
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/russian-propaganda-anti-imperialist-left-vladimir-putin
Labour backbenchers including John McDonnell and Diane Abbott have pulled out of attending a Stop the War rally in London on Wednesday amid pressure from Keir Starmer over the group’s stance on Ukraine.
The Labour leader told his party’s MPs on Monday there was “no place” in the party for anyone drawing a “false equivalence” between the actions of Nato and those of Moscow.
Labour sources had suggested that if backbenchers made any comments at the Wednesday evening rally that were critical of Nato or sought to blame the western alliance for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it could lead to the whip being withdrawn.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/02/john-mcdonnell-and-diane-abbott-pull-out-of-stop-the-war-rally
Date: 3/03/2022 09:05:09
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1855199
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
George Monbiot coming out against the lies of Pilger. Although why he would “respect” such a creep is a mystery.
To me, Pilger and his Kremlin parrot-speak illustrate why the anti-democratic far left are just as depraved as their mates on the far right:
We must confront Russian propaganda – even when it comes from those we respect
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/russian-propaganda-anti-imperialist-left-vladimir-putin
Labour backbenchers including John McDonnell and Diane Abbott have pulled out of attending a Stop the War rally in London on Wednesday amid pressure from Keir Starmer over the group’s stance on Ukraine.
The Labour leader told his party’s MPs on Monday there was “no place” in the party for anyone drawing a “false equivalence” between the actions of Nato and those of Moscow.
Labour sources had suggested that if backbenchers made any comments at the Wednesday evening rally that were critical of Nato or sought to blame the western alliance for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it could lead to the whip being withdrawn.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/02/john-mcdonnell-and-diane-abbott-pull-out-of-stop-the-war-rally
What does “the whip being withdrawn “ mean?
Date: 3/03/2022 09:07:23
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855201
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
George Monbiot coming out against the lies of Pilger. Although why he would “respect” such a creep is a mystery.
To me, Pilger and his Kremlin parrot-speak illustrate why the anti-democratic far left are just as depraved as their mates on the far right:
We must confront Russian propaganda – even when it comes from those we respect
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/russian-propaganda-anti-imperialist-left-vladimir-putin
Labour backbenchers including John McDonnell and Diane Abbott have pulled out of attending a Stop the War rally in London on Wednesday amid pressure from Keir Starmer over the group’s stance on Ukraine.
The Labour leader told his party’s MPs on Monday there was “no place” in the party for anyone drawing a “false equivalence” between the actions of Nato and those of Moscow.
Labour sources had suggested that if backbenchers made any comments at the Wednesday evening rally that were critical of Nato or sought to blame the western alliance for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it could lead to the whip being withdrawn.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/02/john-mcdonnell-and-diane-abbott-pull-out-of-stop-the-war-rally
What does “the whip being withdrawn “ mean?
Means they’ll face expulsion from the party.
Date: 3/03/2022 09:22:09
From: dv
ID: 1855203
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Listening to the Security Council addresses. There are two kinds: those calling for “an end to hostilities “ and saying that dialogue is the only path to peace (such as India), and those calling on Russia to stop invading.
Kenya, notably, opined that the financial sanctions might be illegal.
Date: 3/03/2022 09:37:19
From: dv
ID: 1855207
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 3/03/2022 09:39:33
From: Michael V
ID: 1855208
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Ha!
Date: 3/03/2022 09:40:01
From: dv
ID: 1855209
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 3/03/2022 09:43:19
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1855211
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Listening to the Security Council addresses. There are two kinds: those calling for “an end to hostilities “ and saying that dialogue is the only path to peace (such as India), and those calling on Russia to stop invading.
Kenya, notably, opined that the financial sanctions might be illegal.
Does Kenya receive much money from Russia?
Do they also consider invasion to be illegal, or is that OK?
Date: 3/03/2022 10:06:10
From: dv
ID: 1855212
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukraine crisis: Belarus leader may have inadvertently revealed Russian invasion map on TV
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lukashenko-ukraine-russia-belarus-invasion-map-b2026440.html

It’s a bit fuzzy but it appears to show Russian units deploying to Moldova.
Date: 3/03/2022 10:09:07
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1855213
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
dv said:
Ukraine crisis: Belarus leader may have inadvertently revealed Russian invasion map on TV
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lukashenko-ukraine-russia-belarus-invasion-map-b2026440.html

It’s a bit fuzzy but it appears to show Russian units deploying to Moldova.
No doubt all part of the cunning plan.
Date: 3/03/2022 10:14:07
From: dv
ID: 1855215
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukraine crisis: Belarus leader may have inadvertently revealed Russian invasion map on TV
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lukashenko-ukraine-russia-belarus-invasion-map-b2026440.html

It’s a bit fuzzy but it appears to show Russian units deploying to Moldova.
Date: 3/03/2022 10:41:58
From: Michael V
ID: 1855220
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
141 for
5 against
35 abstain.
All listed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/un-general-assembly-vote-russia-ukraine-war/100877612
Date: 3/03/2022 10:42:12
From: dv
ID: 1855221
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 3/03/2022 10:46:41
From: dv
ID: 1855222
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
141 for
5 against
35 abstain.
All listed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/un-general-assembly-vote-russia-ukraine-war/100877612
Russia, Belarus, NK, Syria as expected. I wonder what Eritrea’s deal is.
Date: 3/03/2022 11:05:49
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855225
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Can we get him a job on Putin’s team for their next ‘election’?
Date: 3/03/2022 11:14:07
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855231
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 3/03/2022 11:16:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1855234
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:

He and Putin went bareback horse riding together
Date: 3/03/2022 11:17:43
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1855236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:

He and Putin went bareback horse riding together
Explicit sexual imagery there.
Date: 3/03/2022 11:20:26
From: Cymek
ID: 1855237
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Is it fair to say abstentions in UN resolutions trying to end conflict is really just being a coward and not willing to make a stand against immoral behaviour.
Plus realistically if you are the aggressor to the conflict you don’t get a vote especially the security council, vested interests otherwise
Date: 3/03/2022 11:21:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1855239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:

He and Putin went bareback horse riding together
Explicit sexual imagery there.
It could be interpreted that way, it would burn into your retinas if you saw it
Date: 3/03/2022 11:25:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855241
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:

He and Putin went bareback horse riding together
You can get badly sunburnt doing that.
Date: 3/03/2022 11:32:14
From: dv
ID: 1855244
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Fair
Date: 3/03/2022 12:09:11
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1855252
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defences are still seen to be viable – a fact that is baffling military experts.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/he-drank-his-own-kool-aid-why-putin-got-bogged-down-in-ukraine-20220302-p5a12g.html
…
I expect NATO cyber-warfare experts know exactly why Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority.
Date: 3/03/2022 12:19:14
From: Cymek
ID: 1855256
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defences are still seen to be viable – a fact that is baffling military experts.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/he-drank-his-own-kool-aid-why-putin-got-bogged-down-in-ukraine-20220302-p5a12g.html
…
I expect NATO cyber-warfare experts know exactly why Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority.
Haven’t they been lent / given Russian MIG’s they collect from Poland
Date: 3/03/2022 12:33:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855260
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defences are still seen to be viable – a fact that is baffling military experts.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/he-drank-his-own-kool-aid-why-putin-got-bogged-down-in-ukraine-20220302-p5a12g.html
…
I expect NATO cyber-warfare experts know exactly why Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority.
Haven’t they been lent / given Russian MIG’s they collect from Poland
No, that “deal” was someone talking through their arse. There were never any planes.
Date: 3/03/2022 12:35:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855261
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defences are still seen to be viable – a fact that is baffling military experts.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/he-drank-his-own-kool-aid-why-putin-got-bogged-down-in-ukraine-20220302-p5a12g.html
…
I expect NATO cyber-warfare experts know exactly why Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority.
I imagine the Russians are wary of Ukraine’s stingers, which have been quite successful against their helicopters and probably some planes. So they may be using their aircraft quite cautiously.
Date: 3/03/2022 12:35:24
From: Cymek
ID: 1855262
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defences are still seen to be viable – a fact that is baffling military experts.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/he-drank-his-own-kool-aid-why-putin-got-bogged-down-in-ukraine-20220302-p5a12g.html
…
I expect NATO cyber-warfare experts know exactly why Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority.
Haven’t they been lent / given Russian MIG’s they collect from Poland
No, that “deal” was someone talking through their arse. There were never any planes.
OK, it seemed getting a bit too much involved.
Date: 3/03/2022 12:36:52
From: esselte
ID: 1855263
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
dv said:
Ukraine crisis: Belarus leader may have inadvertently revealed Russian invasion map on TV
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lukashenko-ukraine-russia-belarus-invasion-map-b2026440.html

It’s a bit fuzzy but it appears to show Russian units deploying to Moldova.
Or more probably “from” Moldova.
Russian military presence in Transnistria
To this day, Moldova continues requesting the withdrawal of the Russian troops from Transnistria, having done so as recently as in 2021. Furthermore, in 2022, amid an increase in tensions between Ukraine and Russia, allegations by Ukrainian intelligence appeared that said Russia was trying to prepare “provocations” against the Russian soldiers in Transnistria in order to create a pretext for a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Date: 3/03/2022 12:37:47
From: dv
ID: 1855264
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
Cymek said:
Haven’t they been lent / given Russian MIG’s they collect from Poland
No, that “deal” was someone talking through their arse. There were never any planes.
OK, it seemed getting a bit too much involved.
A proposed deal to allow Ukrainian pilots to fly fighter jets donated by European Union countries has fallen apart.
Over the course of a confusing 48 hours, the EU announced it had brokered an arrangement for member states to allow Ukrainian pilots to start flying their used Russian fighter planes, only to have those countries deny there was any such deal even as Kyiv trumpeted the impending arrival of the jets.
The dissolution of the deal comes as European countries lined up Monday to announce new weapons packages for Ukraine, from anti-armor and anti-air rockets to artillery and medical supplies.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/28/ukrainian-pilots-arrive-in-poland-to-pick-up-donated-fighter-jets-00012560
How about those Jewish Space Lasers that Marjorie Taylor Greene was talking about, can they help?
Date: 3/03/2022 12:42:02
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855265
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Looks like the push for Kyiv may be starting:
https://twitter.com/AsaadHannaa/status/1499189967658135562
Date: 3/03/2022 12:42:38
From: Cymek
ID: 1855266
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
OK, it seemed getting a bit too much involved.
A proposed deal to allow Ukrainian pilots to fly fighter jets donated by European Union countries has fallen apart.
Over the course of a confusing 48 hours, the EU announced it had brokered an arrangement for member states to allow Ukrainian pilots to start flying their used Russian fighter planes, only to have those countries deny there was any such deal even as Kyiv trumpeted the impending arrival of the jets.
The dissolution of the deal comes as European countries lined up Monday to announce new weapons packages for Ukraine, from anti-armor and anti-air rockets to artillery and medical supplies.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/28/ukrainian-pilots-arrive-in-poland-to-pick-up-donated-fighter-jets-00012560
How about those Jewish Space Lasers that Marjorie Taylor Greene was talking about, can they help?
They are still working on an acronym to explain what they are using a Jewish name.
Date: 3/03/2022 12:44:48
From: dv
ID: 1855268
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
(CNN)A Western intelligence report indicated that Chinese officials in early February requested that senior Russian officials wait until after the Beijing Olympics had finished before beginning an invasion into Ukraine, US officials said Wednesday.
US officials broadly view the report as credible, but its particulars are open to interpretation, according to one source familiar with the intelligence. Although the request was made around the time that Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Beijing for the opening ceremony of the Olympics — where he met with Chinese President Xi Jinping — it is not clear from the report whether Putin addressed the matter with Xi directly, the source said.
The New York Times first reported the existence of the report.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/02/world/china-russia-ukraine-invasion-olympics-western-intel/index.html
Date: 3/03/2022 12:46:40
From: dv
ID: 1855269
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands said on Wednesday it would immediately proceed with an active investigation following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
ICC Prosecutor Karim A.A. Khan said in a statement 39 of the court’s member states had requested for the investigation to proceed.
“Our work in the collection of evidence has now commenced,” Khan said, noting the investigation will cover incidents in Ukraine from 2013 to the present.
Khan said his office “had already found a reasonable basis to believe crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court had been committed, and had identified potential cases that would be admissible.”
The ICC’s chief prosecutor implored all parties engaged in conflict to adhere to international humanitarian law.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-02-22/index.html
Date: 3/03/2022 12:50:11
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855272
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It seems that lack of basic maintenance may be responsible for a lot of the Russian’s failures.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta…64245250002944
Date: 3/03/2022 12:51:40
From: furious
ID: 1855273
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
(CNN)A Western intelligence report indicated that Chinese officials in early February requested that senior Russian officials wait until after the Beijing Olympics had finished before beginning an invasion into Ukraine, US officials said Wednesday.
US officials broadly view the report as credible, but its particulars are open to interpretation, according to one source familiar with the intelligence. Although the request was made around the time that Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Beijing for the opening ceremony of the Olympics — where he met with Chinese President Xi Jinping — it is not clear from the report whether Putin addressed the matter with Xi directly, the source said.
The New York Times first reported the existence of the report.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/02/world/china-russia-ukraine-invasion-olympics-western-intel/index.html
I remember that idea was floated pre-olympics…
Date: 3/03/2022 12:51:42
From: Michael V
ID: 1855274
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands said on Wednesday it would immediately proceed with an active investigation following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
ICC Prosecutor Karim A.A. Khan said in a statement 39 of the court’s member states had requested for the investigation to proceed.
“Our work in the collection of evidence has now commenced,” Khan said, noting the investigation will cover incidents in Ukraine from 2013 to the present.
Khan said his office “had already found a reasonable basis to believe crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court had been committed, and had identified potential cases that would be admissible.”
The ICC’s chief prosecutor implored all parties engaged in conflict to adhere to international humanitarian law.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-02-22/index.html
That’ll cover MH17 too, I suppose.
Date: 3/03/2022 12:56:20
From: buffy
ID: 1855278
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
(CNN)A Western intelligence report indicated that Chinese officials in early February requested that senior Russian officials wait until after the Beijing Olympics had finished before beginning an invasion into Ukraine, US officials said Wednesday.
US officials broadly view the report as credible, but its particulars are open to interpretation, according to one source familiar with the intelligence. Although the request was made around the time that Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Beijing for the opening ceremony of the Olympics — where he met with Chinese President Xi Jinping — it is not clear from the report whether Putin addressed the matter with Xi directly, the source said.
The New York Times first reported the existence of the report.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/02/world/china-russia-ukraine-invasion-olympics-western-intel/index.html
Or your Russian athletes won’t be allowed to compete?
Date: 3/03/2022 12:59:48
From: Cymek
ID: 1855282
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
It seems that lack of basic maintenance may be responsible for a lot of the Russian’s failures.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta…64245250002944
Russian soldier 1 “Ey, Ivan, razve ty ne sobiralsya obsluzhivat’ tank?”
Ivan “Klyanus’ borodoy Lenina ya do nego doberus’ vodkoy breyk ty chto KGB”
Date: 3/03/2022 13:19:08
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855294
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
It seems that lack of basic maintenance may be responsible for a lot of the Russian’s failures.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta…64245250002944
That ‘link’ doesn’t work, of course.
Maintenance has always been a problem with the Soviet/Russian forces.
Personnel retention is a perennial problem for them. It’s national service, the conditions are terrible by western standards, and everyone just wants to get it over and done with and get back to ‘real life’.
The result is that you have a mass of people who really aren’t interested in learning more than the bare minimum they need to get through, and a ‘permanent’ core of people who aren’t motivated to teach them because they’ll be gone soon and you’ll only have to do it all again.
So, a lot of even the basic work is done by that ‘permanent’ bunch, and they can’t be everywhere at once. You get people at the rank of e.g. chief petty officer doing work that in, say, the RAN, would be delegated to an able seaman.
Date: 3/03/2022 13:19:51
From: dv
ID: 1855295
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 3/03/2022 13:21:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1855296
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
It seems that lack of basic maintenance may be responsible for a lot of the Russian’s failures.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta…64245250002944
That ‘link’ doesn’t work, of course.
Maintenance has always been a problem with the Soviet/Russian forces.
Personnel retention is a perennial problem for them. It’s national service, the conditions are terrible by western standards, and everyone just wants to get it over and done with and get back to ‘real life’.
The result is that you have a mass of people who really aren’t interested in learning more than the bare minimum they need to get through, and a ‘permanent’ core of people who aren’t motivated to teach them because they’ll be gone soon and you’ll only have to do it all again.
So, a lot of even the basic work is done by that ‘permanent’ bunch, and they can’t be everywhere at once. You get people at the rank of e.g. chief petty officer doing work that in, say, the RAN, would be delegated to an able seaman.
Tanks and APC’s must chew through fuel as well I imagine so it would be easy to run out of fuel if you are fielding hundreds of them especially if the other side is blowing the fuel trucks up
Date: 3/03/2022 13:42:05
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855306
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
It seems that lack of basic maintenance may be responsible for a lot of the Russian’s failures.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta…64245250002944
That ‘link’ doesn’t work, of course.
Maintenance has always been a problem with the Soviet/Russian forces.
Personnel retention is a perennial problem for them. It’s national service, the conditions are terrible by western standards, and everyone just wants to get it over and done with and get back to ‘real life’.
The result is that you have a mass of people who really aren’t interested in learning more than the bare minimum they need to get through, and a ‘permanent’ core of people who aren’t motivated to teach them because they’ll be gone soon and you’ll only have to do it all again.
So, a lot of even the basic work is done by that ‘permanent’ bunch, and they can’t be everywhere at once. You get people at the rank of e.g. chief petty officer doing work that in, say, the RAN, would be delegated to an able seaman.
oops.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1499164245250002944
Date: 3/03/2022 13:42:33
From: transition
ID: 1855307
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military, in terms of raw numbers and firepower, Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defences are still seen to be viable – a fact that is baffling military experts.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/he-drank-his-own-kool-aid-why-putin-got-bogged-down-in-ukraine-20220302-p5a12g.html
…
I expect NATO cyber-warfare experts know exactly why Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority.
my read of the situation is that Putin is more about exorcising NATO influence from the country, with an invitation to a larger war, with the the larger, real enemy
the approach is to let the prejudice emerge, the justifications to evolve
but honestly I know FA about the subject
Date: 3/03/2022 14:12:54
From: Kingy
ID: 1855323
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
It seems that lack of basic maintenance may be responsible for a lot of the Russian’s failures.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta…64245250002944
About 15 years ago, a new official was put in charge of upgrading the Russian military. Anatoly Eduardovich Serdyukov. Once he realised just how corrupt and decrepit it all was, he started kicking arse and trying to improve the system.
“Addressing acute and long-standing issues such as the ineffectiveness of Russia’s defense industrial and procurement policies was also one of Serdyukov’s chief aims. The questions addressed included: “why, with so much spending on defense, do the Armed Forces possess so little new equipment? Why does the design and testing of many new types of armament take decades to show results?” Serdyukov initiated modifications to the Russian military uniform and addressed the issue of the physical condition of Russia’s generals and senior officers: the entire service personnel of the General Staff, irrespective of rank, must now meet set physical standards upon threat of dismissal. He also called for mergers of Military academies, sharp cuts in the number of military bases, and reductions in rear support and noncombat units.
Many of Serdyukov’s reforms and anti-corruption measures were met with open opposition and led to many dismissals. His actions, however, gave him a positive image in the eyes of the Russian public.
Severe disagreements were reported in late 2007 and early 2008 between Serdyukov and General of the Army Yuri Baluyevsky, Chief of the General Staff, most recently over the Minister’s proposed move of the Russian Navy Main Staff from Moscow to Saint Petersburg. Later, this was proved by following Baluyevsky’s resignation. “
The oligarchs that were creaming billions of rubles from the way things were, got him sacked, and a new Putin toady was the replacement. Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu. He just went back to the way things were, and told Putin that everything was going really great.
This disaster is the result.
Date: 3/03/2022 14:16:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1855325
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Dark Orange said:
It seems that lack of basic maintenance may be responsible for a lot of the Russian’s failures.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta…64245250002944
About 15 years ago, a new official was put in charge of upgrading the Russian military. Anatoly Eduardovich Serdyukov. Once he realised just how corrupt and decrepit it all was, he started kicking arse and trying to improve the system.
“Addressing acute and long-standing issues such as the ineffectiveness of Russia’s defense industrial and procurement policies was also one of Serdyukov’s chief aims. The questions addressed included: “why, with so much spending on defense, do the Armed Forces possess so little new equipment? Why does the design and testing of many new types of armament take decades to show results?” Serdyukov initiated modifications to the Russian military uniform and addressed the issue of the physical condition of Russia’s generals and senior officers: the entire service personnel of the General Staff, irrespective of rank, must now meet set physical standards upon threat of dismissal. He also called for mergers of Military academies, sharp cuts in the number of military bases, and reductions in rear support and noncombat units.
Many of Serdyukov’s reforms and anti-corruption measures were met with open opposition and led to many dismissals. His actions, however, gave him a positive image in the eyes of the Russian public.
Severe disagreements were reported in late 2007 and early 2008 between Serdyukov and General of the Army Yuri Baluyevsky, Chief of the General Staff, most recently over the Minister’s proposed move of the Russian Navy Main Staff from Moscow to Saint Petersburg. Later, this was proved by following Baluyevsky’s resignation. “
The oligarchs that were creaming billions of rubles from the way things were, got him sacked, and a new Putin toady was the replacement. Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu. He just went back to the way things were, and told Putin that everything was going really great.
This disaster is the result.
Reading about the person hours required to maintain various equipment in top shape is high, can imagine getting slack when its not needed and then when it is its breaks
Date: 3/03/2022 15:47:52
From: dv
ID: 1855367
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Berlin is about as far from Kyiv as Melbourne is from Coffs Harbour.

Date: 3/03/2022 15:52:28
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855372
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Berlin is about as far from Kyiv as Melbourne is from Coffs Harbour.

When the Sydney Olympics was in the offing, a British interviewer asked someone in Cairns if they were excited about the Games coming to Sydney.
‘Well’, said the Cairns person ‘Sydney’s about as far away from us as Moscow is from London. Did people in London get very excited in 1980?’
Date: 3/03/2022 16:34:04
From: dv
ID: 1855403
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 3/03/2022 17:41:09
From: dv
ID: 1855423
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Michael V said:
141 for
5 against
35 abstain.
All listed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/un-general-assembly-vote-russia-ukraine-war/100877612
Russia, Belarus, NK, Syria as expected. I wonder what Eritrea’s deal is.
Taking a closer look at the abstentions…
The great majority of the Latin American and Carib countries voted Aye. The exceptions were Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador. Pretty surprised about El Salvador which can normally be relied upon to rubberstamp US policy.
At Europe’s edge lie two countries that abstained: Armenia and Kazakhstan. Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan also abstained. Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan were Ayes.
Iran and Iraq abstained, as did the entire subcontinental region (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). To the east, Mongolia, China, Vietnam and Laos abstained.
In Africa, one third of the countries abstained.
Date: 3/03/2022 17:48:58
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1855429
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Germany seizes Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov’s $600m superyacht – report
Hamburg authorities seized the 156-metre Dilbar as yachts belonging to five other Russian billionaires headed to the non-extradition Maldives
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/germany-seizes-russian-billionaire-alisher-usmanovs-600m-superyacht-report
Date: 3/03/2022 17:53:45
From: Cymek
ID: 1855430
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
dv said:
Michael V said:
141 for
5 against
35 abstain.
All listed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/un-general-assembly-vote-russia-ukraine-war/100877612
Russia, Belarus, NK, Syria as expected. I wonder what Eritrea’s deal is.
Taking a closer look at the abstentions…
The great majority of the Latin American and Carib countries voted Aye. The exceptions were Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador. Pretty surprised about El Salvador which can normally be relied upon to rubberstamp US policy.
At Europe’s edge lie two countries that abstained: Armenia and Kazakhstan. Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan also abstained. Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan were Ayes.
Iran and Iraq abstained, as did the entire subcontinental region (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). To the east, Mongolia, China, Vietnam and Laos abstained.
In Africa, one third of the countries abstained.
Pity it doesn’t just come to being angry people are being killed instead of upsetting someone if you vote
Date: 3/03/2022 18:23:54
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1855444
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Germany seizes Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov’s $600m superyacht – report
Hamburg authorities seized the 156-metre Dilbar as yachts belonging to five other Russian billionaires headed to the non-extradition Maldives
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/germany-seizes-russian-billionaire-alisher-usmanovs-600m-superyacht-report
If it doesn’t have sails it ain’t a yacht. There I’ve said it…
Date: 3/03/2022 18:35:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855450
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
dv said:
Russia, Belarus, NK, Syria as expected. I wonder what Eritrea’s deal is.
Taking a closer look at the abstentions…
The great majority of the Latin American and Carib countries voted Aye. The exceptions were Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador. Pretty surprised about El Salvador which can normally be relied upon to rubberstamp US policy.
At Europe’s edge lie two countries that abstained: Armenia and Kazakhstan. Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan also abstained. Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan were Ayes.
Iran and Iraq abstained, as did the entire subcontinental region (India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh). To the east, Mongolia, China, Vietnam and Laos abstained.
In Africa, one third of the countries abstained.
Pity it doesn’t just come to being angry people are being killed instead of upsetting someone if you vote
remember when it was either COVID-19 or the inconvenience of wearing some clothing above your torso but people were upset
Date: 3/03/2022 18:44:40
From: sibeen
ID: 1855452
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Germany is considering supplying 2,700 anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine as it seeks to defend itself against an invasion by Russia, a government source said on Thursday.
German news agency DPA reported earlier that the economy ministry had approved supplying the Soviet-made Strela missiles, part of the inventories of the former German Democratic Republic’s army.
A source told Reuters that the Federal Security Council had yet to approve the move. “The missiles are ready to be transported,” the source said.
Jaysus, the generous bastards, missiles that have be be at least 30 years old.
Date: 3/03/2022 18:47:33
From: buffy
ID: 1855454
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Germany is considering supplying 2,700 anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine as it seeks to defend itself against an invasion by Russia, a government source said on Thursday.
German news agency DPA reported earlier that the economy ministry had approved supplying the Soviet-made Strela missiles, part of the inventories of the former German Democratic Republic’s army.
A source told Reuters that the Federal Security Council had yet to approve the move. “The missiles are ready to be transported,” the source said.
Jaysus, the generous bastards, missiles that have be be at least 30 years old.
But it’s kind of amusing that they are Soviet made.
Date: 3/03/2022 18:50:28
From: dv
ID: 1855455
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
sarahs mum said:
Germany seizes Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov’s $600m superyacht – report
Hamburg authorities seized the 156-metre Dilbar as yachts belonging to five other Russian billionaires headed to the non-extradition Maldives
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/germany-seizes-russian-billionaire-alisher-usmanovs-600m-superyacht-report
If it doesn’t have sails it ain’t a yacht. There I’ve said it…
(hugs WR)
Date: 3/03/2022 18:56:15
From: dv
ID: 1855457
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Germany is considering supplying 2,700 anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine as it seeks to defend itself against an invasion by Russia, a government source said on Thursday.
German news agency DPA reported earlier that the economy ministry had approved supplying the Soviet-made Strela missiles, part of the inventories of the former German Democratic Republic’s army.
A source told Reuters that the Federal Security Council had yet to approve the move. “The missiles are ready to be transported,” the source said.
Jaysus, the generous bastards, missiles that have be be at least 30 years old.
In fairness at least the Ukrainian soldiers have experience with them
Date: 3/03/2022 18:59:28
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855458
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
sarahs mum said:
Germany seizes Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov’s $600m superyacht – report
Hamburg authorities seized the 156-metre Dilbar as yachts belonging to five other Russian billionaires headed to the non-extradition Maldives
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/germany-seizes-russian-billionaire-alisher-usmanovs-600m-superyacht-report
If it doesn’t have sails it ain’t a yacht. There I’ve said it…
(hugs WR)
Well, much as i might wish to agree with you, it might be more acceptable to call the motor yachts.
Date: 3/03/2022 19:03:13
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855459
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Germany is considering supplying 2,700 anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine as it seeks to defend itself against an invasion by Russia, a government source said on Thursday.
German news agency DPA reported earlier that the economy ministry had approved supplying the Soviet-made Strela missiles, part of the inventories of the former German Democratic Republic’s army.
A source told Reuters that the Federal Security Council had yet to approve the move. “The missiles are ready to be transported,” the source said.
Jaysus, the generous bastards, missiles that have be be at least 30 years old.
Yeah, but they’re Russian. Designed and made, at least in part, to be distributed to ‘revolutionaries’ around the world, who are not likely to be all that savvy about high-tech weapons, who are likely to get minimal training on them, and who are likely to subject them to some harsh conditions and little care. So, they’re fairly durable. What the Russians (not my words) sometimes called ‘monkey-proof’.
Date: 3/03/2022 19:08:28
From: sibeen
ID: 1855461
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Both Coal and Wheat have hit their all time high price.
Date: 3/03/2022 19:11:30
From: furious
ID: 1855462
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Germany is considering supplying 2,700 anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine as it seeks to defend itself against an invasion by Russia, a government source said on Thursday.
German news agency DPA reported earlier that the economy ministry had approved supplying the Soviet-made Strela missiles, part of the inventories of the former German Democratic Republic’s army.
A source told Reuters that the Federal Security Council had yet to approve the move. “The missiles are ready to be transported,” the source said.
Jaysus, the generous bastards, missiles that have be be at least 30 years old.
Yeah, but they’re Russian. Designed and made, at least in part, to be distributed to ‘revolutionaries’ around the world, who are not likely to be all that savvy about high-tech weapons, who are likely to get minimal training on them, and who are likely to subject them to some harsh conditions and little care. So, they’re fairly durable. What the Russians (not my words) sometimes called ‘monkey-proof’.
Given they’re coming from Germany I assume they’re from East German armories. Not your typical bunch of monkeys…
Date: 3/03/2022 19:16:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855466
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Given they’re coming from Germany I assume they’re from East German armories. Not your typical bunch of monkeys…
Oh, they’re not bad AA weapons at all. The Russians were and are quite happy to use them themselves. They were in the inventories of other Warsaw Pact countries, too. That ‘tank’ that was in the very recent video where it ran over a car was equipped with SA-10 Strela launchers.
If you have a good and effective weapon that’s simple to use and durable/tough as well, then it not only suits the needs of your ‘client states’ but your own as well
Date: 3/03/2022 19:17:52
From: dv
ID: 1855467
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Both Coal and Wheat have hit their all time high price.
Surprisingly, natural gas has not reached such heights
Date: 3/03/2022 19:33:06
From: dv
ID: 1855471
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Gerhard Schröder’s office staff quit over Putin’s war on Ukraine
German ex-chancellor hasn’t cut his ties to the Kremlin.
BERLIN — The office manager of Germany’s former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder has resigned due to his boss’ refusal to quit lucrative positions at Russian gas companies.
Albrecht Funk, who has served as Schröder’s office manager for more than 20 years, last week decided to quit his job after Schröder wouldn’t follow his advice to quit roles at gas companies Rosneft and Gazprom following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, German news portal the Pioneer reported Tuesday.
According to the report, a total of four employees, including Funk, quit their jobs at Schröder’s office over the issue.
Last week, the former Social Democrat chancellor criticized Putin’s war via LinkedIn, but maintained that “both sides made mistakes,” sticking to his stance that NATO expanded too far east following the end of the Cold War, thus provoking the Kremlin.
Schröder’s halfhearted condemnation came after weeks of mounting pressure to immediately end his entanglement in Russian gas interests — pressure which he has so far resisted.
Demands have since grown louder for Schröder to be stripped of all the benefits an ex-chancellor enjoys in Germany, including handsome pension payments.
On the weekend, Lars Klingbeil, co-leader of the Social Democrats, called on the ex-chancellor to sever his Kremlin ties. “It is overdue to end business relations with Putin,” he wrote on Facebook. “I expect this unequivocally.”
A hardening of Germany’s policy toward Russia has followed the invasion, with consequences across society.
On Tuesday, the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra sacked its conductor Valery Gergiev after he refused to distance himself from Putin, while football club Schalke 04 ended its partnership with Gazprom on Monday.
https://www.politico.eu/article/gerhard-schroders-office-staff-quit-over-putin-russia-ukraine-war/
Date: 3/03/2022 20:15:53
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855483
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.facebook.com/CinCAFU/posts/259900112972148
“We have just shot down a Russian SU-30 plane over Irpen. The calculation of the air defense complex worked perfectly!”
Date: 3/03/2022 20:18:25
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1855484
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“At least 498 Russian soldiers killed according to British Ministry of Defence
The ministry said that a Russian military column heading for Kyiv has made ‘little discernable progress’ over the part three days, and remains more than 30km outside the centre of the city.
The ministry also noted that Russia has been forced to admit that 498 of its soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and another 1,597 have been wounded. The actual number of those killed and wounded will almost certainly be considerably higher and will continue to rise, it said.”
I’d say the Ukrainians have probably blown the bridges, it’s very difficult to take a city and hanging about out in the open in the cold and the snow when all you want to do is go home is awful.
Date: 3/03/2022 20:22:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855485
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://www.facebook.com/CinCAFU/posts/259900112972148
“We have just shot down a Russian SU-30 plane over Irpen. The calculation of the air defense complex worked perfectly!”

Date: 3/03/2022 20:34:18
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855489
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
“At least 498 Russian soldiers killed according to British Ministry of Defence
The ministry said that a Russian military column heading for Kyiv has made ‘little discernable progress’ over the part three days, and remains more than 30km outside the centre of the city.
The ministry also noted that Russia has been forced to admit that 498 of its soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and another 1,597 have been wounded. The actual number of those killed and wounded will almost certainly be considerably higher and will continue to rise, it said.”
I’d say the Ukrainians have probably blown the bridges, it’s very difficult to take a city and hanging about out in the open in the cold and the snow when all you want to do is go home is awful.
Those are the official figures, so add a zero at the end?
Putin wanted to go in a month ago, but China suggested they wait until after the olympics. The resulting thawed mud plus the poor reliability of the Russian vehicles mean they can’t venture offroad, so it is one big traffic jam when one breaks down or gets blown up. Add that to the lack of air superiority (Again, probably due to poor reliability) then an invasion force is going to have a bad day. Or week, in this case.
As much as the Ukrainians are doing everything right, I’d say the current situation is more due to the Russians making a complete cock-up of the whole thing.
Date: 3/03/2022 20:36:00
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855491
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“At least 498 Russian soldiers killed according to British Ministry of Defence
The ministry said that a Russian military column heading for Kyiv has made ‘little discernable progress’ over the part three days, and remains more than 30km outside the centre of the city.
The ministry also noted that Russia has been forced to admit that 498 of its soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and another 1,597 have been wounded. The actual number of those killed and wounded will almost certainly be considerably higher and will continue to rise, it said.”
I’d say the Ukrainians have probably blown the bridges, it’s very difficult to take a city and hanging about out in the open in the cold and the snow when all you want to do is go home is awful.
Those are the official figures, so add a zero at the end?
Putin wanted to go in a month ago, but China suggested they wait until after the olympics. The resulting thawed mud plus the poor reliability of the Russian vehicles mean they can’t venture offroad, so it is one big traffic jam when one breaks down or gets blown up. Add that to the lack of air superiority (Again, probably due to poor reliability) then an invasion force is going to have a bad day. Or week, in this case.
As much as the Ukrainians are doing everything right, I’d say the current situation is more due to the Russians making a complete cock-up of the whole thing.
Those are the official figures, so add a zero at the end?
Yes, much higher than that now.
Date: 3/03/2022 20:40:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855492
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Over 7,000 Russian soldiers have been killed since the start of the invasion of Ukraine, military adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Oleksiy Arestovich, said on Wednesday. Arestovich added that hundreds have been captured.
https://indianexpress.com/article/world/russia-ukraine-war-refugees-deaths-economy-7798610/
Date: 3/03/2022 20:58:49
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855499
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“At least 498 Russian soldiers killed according to British Ministry of Defence
The ministry said that a Russian military column heading for Kyiv has made ‘little discernable progress’ over the part three days, and remains more than 30km outside the centre of the city.
The ministry also noted that Russia has been forced to admit that 498 of its soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and another 1,597 have been wounded. The actual number of those killed and wounded will almost certainly be considerably higher and will continue to rise, it said.”
I’d say the Ukrainians have probably blown the bridges, it’s very difficult to take a city and hanging about out in the open in the cold and the snow when all you want to do is go home is awful.
Those are the official figures, so add a zero at the end?
Putin wanted to go in a month ago, but China suggested they wait until after the olympics. The resulting thawed mud plus the poor reliability of the Russian vehicles mean they can’t venture offroad, so it is one big traffic jam when one breaks down or gets blown up. Add that to the lack of air superiority (Again, probably due to poor reliability) then an invasion force is going to have a bad day. Or week, in this case.
As much as the Ukrainians are doing everything right, I’d say the current situation is more due to the Russians making a complete cock-up of the whole thing.
I linked to this twitter thread a few days ago discussing “big picture” maintenance issues with Russian hardware:
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204
And this twitter thread shows the result:
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1499164245250002944
Date: 3/03/2022 21:00:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855500
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Dark Orange said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“At least 498 Russian soldiers killed according to British Ministry of Defence
The ministry said that a Russian military column heading for Kyiv has made ‘little discernable progress’ over the part three days, and remains more than 30km outside the centre of the city.
The ministry also noted that Russia has been forced to admit that 498 of its soldiers have been killed in Ukraine and another 1,597 have been wounded. The actual number of those killed and wounded will almost certainly be considerably higher and will continue to rise, it said.”
I’d say the Ukrainians have probably blown the bridges, it’s very difficult to take a city and hanging about out in the open in the cold and the snow when all you want to do is go home is awful.
Those are the official figures, so add a zero at the end?
Putin wanted to go in a month ago, but China suggested they wait until after the olympics. The resulting thawed mud plus the poor reliability of the Russian vehicles mean they can’t venture offroad, so it is one big traffic jam when one breaks down or gets blown up. Add that to the lack of air superiority (Again, probably due to poor reliability) then an invasion force is going to have a bad day. Or week, in this case.
As much as the Ukrainians are doing everything right, I’d say the current situation is more due to the Russians making a complete cock-up of the whole thing.
Those are the official figures, so add a zero at the end?
Yes, much higher than that now.
so do we reckon CHINA set these jokers up to fail because that would be fucking hilarious
totally yeah we’re right behind you with our full support, no limits to our cooperation
we’ll sell you cereal
Date: 3/03/2022 21:39:54
From: dv
ID: 1855513
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’m not going to believe any claimed death counts until this is over, and maybe not even then.
Date: 3/03/2022 21:44:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855516
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I’m not going to believe any claimed death counts until this is over, and maybe not even then.
we’ll happily believe that come 2222 all the belligerents died
Date: 3/03/2022 21:46:59
From: dv
ID: 1855518
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Z-cars was more fun on tv
Date: 3/03/2022 22:58:35
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855548
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Z-cars was more fun on tv
Didn’t they drive Ford Zephyrs?
Date: 3/03/2022 23:00:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855551
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
What do you when the invasion force in your country is bogged down and demoralised and your friends have given you shiny toys to play with?
“The General Staff of the Armed Forces of #Ukraine: we are now moving from the defense mode to the counteroffensive mode”
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499345566253436931
Date: 3/03/2022 23:00:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855552
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Z-cars was more fun on tv
Didn’t they drive Ford Zephyrs?
Origin of the title
The title comes from the radio call signs allocated by Lancashire Constabulary. Lancashire police divisions were lettered from north to the south: “A” Division (based in Ulverston) was the detached part of Lancashire at the time around Barrow-in-Furness, “B” Division was Lancaster, and so on (see Home Office radio). The TV series took the non-existent signs Z-Victor 1 and Z-Victor 2. The title does not, as sometimes suggested, come from the cars used, Ford Zephyr and Ford Zodiac. The Zephyr was the standard traffic patrol car used by Lancashire and other police forces, while the Zodiac was only used for specialist tasks such as traffic duty. Also, the term “Z-car” was used by British newspaper publishing companies to refer to any type of police vehicle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Cars
Date: 3/03/2022 23:02:34
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855553
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Z-cars was more fun on tv
Didn’t they drive Ford Zephyrs?
Origin of the title
The title comes from the radio call signs allocated by Lancashire Constabulary. Lancashire police divisions were lettered from north to the south: “A” Division (based in Ulverston) was the detached part of Lancashire at the time around Barrow-in-Furness, “B” Division was Lancaster, and so on (see Home Office radio). The TV series took the non-existent signs Z-Victor 1 and Z-Victor 2. The title does not, as sometimes suggested, come from the cars used, Ford Zephyr and Ford Zodiac. The Zephyr was the standard traffic patrol car used by Lancashire and other police forces, while the Zodiac was only used for specialist tasks such as traffic duty. Also, the term “Z-car” was used by British newspaper publishing companies to refer to any type of police vehicle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Cars
Yeah.. I knew that.
Date: 3/03/2022 23:03:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855555
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/stan-grant-tells-audience-member-to-leave-qanda/100880520
Date: 3/03/2022 23:03:58
From: dv
ID: 1855556
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
What do you when the invasion force in your country is bogged down and demoralised and your friends have given you shiny toys to play with?
“The General Staff of the Armed Forces of #Ukraine: we are now moving from the defense mode to the counteroffensive mode”
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499345566253436931
I mean there’s about 1000 tanks and trucks just sitting there with poor air defence…
Date: 3/03/2022 23:05:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855558
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Dark Orange said:
What do you when the invasion force in your country is bogged down and demoralised and your friends have given you shiny toys to play with?
“The General Staff of the Armed Forces of #Ukraine: we are now moving from the defense mode to the counteroffensive mode”
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499345566253436931
I mean there’s about 1000 tanks and trucks just sitting there with poor air defence…
Aye, Ukraine needs more feathers in its map.
Date: 3/03/2022 23:07:40
From: dv
ID: 1855560
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/stan-grant-tells-audience-member-to-leave-qanda/100880520
Can we hire him as a moderator here?
Date: 3/03/2022 23:08:14
From: sibeen
ID: 1855561
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
roughbarked said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/stan-grant-tells-audience-member-to-leave-qanda/100880520
Can we hire him as a moderator here?
FUCK OFF
Date: 3/03/2022 23:08:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855562
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
They’ve taken delivery of more Bayraktar TB2s from Turkey, but they’re probably not the most effective weapon against long lines of sitting ducks.
Better against carefully chosen fuel tankers and ammunition trucks etc.
Date: 3/03/2022 23:10:55
From: dv
ID: 1855566
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
roughbarked said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/stan-grant-tells-audience-member-to-leave-qanda/100880520
Can we hire him as a moderator here?
FUCK OFF
I understand, you need time to think
Date: 3/03/2022 23:13:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855567
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
Can we hire him as a moderator here?
FUCK OFF
I understand, you need time to think
we mean we SCIENCE haven’t actually been getting killed by Ukraine authorities or Russia authorities there ourselves so for all we know it could all be propaganda
Date: 3/03/2022 23:20:06
From: dv
ID: 1855573
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
sibeen said:
FUCK OFF
I understand, you need time to think
we mean we SCIENCE haven’t actually been getting killed by Ukraine authorities or Russia authorities there ourselves so for all we know it could all be propaganda
Maybe you did but you’re a ghost and don’t know it like that Bruce Willis movie, Die hard 6
Date: 3/03/2022 23:21:16
From: Arts
ID: 1855575
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
I understand, you need time to think
we mean we SCIENCE haven’t actually been getting killed by Ukraine authorities or Russia authorities there ourselves so for all we know it could all be propaganda
Maybe you did but you’re a ghost and don’t know it like that Bruce Willis movie, Die hard 6
I see terrorist people
Date: 3/03/2022 23:30:42
From: party_pants
ID: 1855583
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
They’ve taken delivery of more Bayraktar TB2s from Turkey, but they’re probably not the most effective weapon against long lines of sitting ducks.
Better against carefully chosen fuel tankers and ammunition trucks etc.
Do we have anything equivalent to this???
Date: 3/03/2022 23:41:00
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855596
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
They’ve taken delivery of more Bayraktar TB2s from Turkey, but they’re probably not the most effective weapon against long lines of sitting ducks.
Better against carefully chosen fuel tankers and ammunition trucks etc.
I think you are too narrow in your definition of “Effective”.
If you want to destroy every vehicle and person in that convoy, then an A10 Warthog would do so in a few minutes, very effectively.
But if you want to just stop them from invading, then you only need to take out select items along the convoy. They can’t advance or retreat, and they can’t go off-road. Lack of water and food will force all remaining personnel to withdraw on foot to spread the word back to the homeland while leaving a pile of nice equipment for the Ukraine.
Date: 3/03/2022 23:41:32
From: dv
ID: 1855597
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
On ABC News (America) they say that US estimates of Russian fatalities are only about half as high as Ukrainian estimates of Russian fatalities, maybe 5000 or so.
This would still mean that Russia has lost more soldiers in one week in Ukraine than the USA lost in Afghanistan in 20 years.
Date: 3/03/2022 23:44:28
From: dv
ID: 1855600
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
They’ve taken delivery of more Bayraktar TB2s from Turkey, but they’re probably not the most effective weapon against long lines of sitting ducks.
Better against carefully chosen fuel tankers and ammunition trucks etc.
I think you are too narrow in your definition of “Effective”.
If you want to destroy every vehicle and person in that convoy, then an A10 Warthog would do so in a few minutes, very effectively.
But if you want to just stop them from invading, then you only need to take out select items along the convoy. They can’t advance or retreat, and they can’t go off-road. Lack of water and food will force all remaining personnel to withdraw on foot to spread the word back to the homeland while leaving a pile of nice equipment for the Ukraine.
Yeah … they mentioned that there’s really no way for them to go back on the same route, the road isn’t wide enough for them to pass and the margins are softening as winter ends. Is it possible that they did in fact fuck this up?
Date: 3/03/2022 23:44:30
From: sibeen
ID: 1855601
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
They’ve taken delivery of more Bayraktar TB2s from Turkey, but they’re probably not the most effective weapon against long lines of sitting ducks.
Better against carefully chosen fuel tankers and ammunition trucks etc.
I think you are too narrow in your definition of “Effective”.
If you want to destroy every vehicle and person in that convoy, then an A10 Warthog would do so in a few minutes, very effectively.
But if you want to just stop them from invading, then you only need to take out select items along the convoy. They can’t advance or retreat, and they can’t go off-road. Lack of water and food will force all remaining personnel to withdraw on foot to spread the word back to the homeland while leaving a pile of nice equipment for the Ukraine.
During WW2 the Finns had great fun attacking the Russian kitchens. Cold Russians and no hot food caused great mirth.
Date: 4/03/2022 00:02:03
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855605
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine claims to have shot down an SU-34, in addition to the SU-30 from earlier today.
Date: 4/03/2022 00:15:04
From: party_pants
ID: 1855608
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Ukraine claims to have shot down an SU-34, in addition to the SU-30 from earlier today.
SU-34 is the duckbill side-by-side two-seater variant of the Flanker family, specifically for ground attack.
Date: 4/03/2022 00:57:58
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855613
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Apparently Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, former Russian paratrooper was KIA. What a Major General is doing parachuting into an active warzone is beyond me, but whatever his reasons, he probably should have stayed at home.
Date: 4/03/2022 01:06:34
From: transition
ID: 1855616
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/stan-grant-tells-audience-member-to-leave-qanda/100880520
I watched that, the relevant parts, the question, some conversation, and the eventual request to leave
now reading this below
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/inside-the-separatist-republic-that-triggered-the-war-in-ukraine/100871262
Date: 4/03/2022 01:09:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855619
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Apparently Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, former Russian paratrooper was KIA. What a Major General is doing parachuting into an active warzone is beyond me, but whatever his reasons, he probably should have stayed at home.
Putin sending in boss boys because he’s impatient to take control.
It seems much of the first wave were young national service conscripts who weren’t even told where they were going.
Send in the expendable kids, then the main men on fatter salaries. But I suspect the defenders are ready for them.
Date: 4/03/2022 01:09:58
From: sibeen
ID: 1855620
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Apparently Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, former Russian paratrooper was KIA. What a Major General is doing parachuting into an active warzone is beyond me, but whatever his reasons, he probably should have stayed at home.
I’d give that 2 stars.
Date: 4/03/2022 01:24:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855628
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
STOCKHOLM, March 2 (Reuters) – Four Russian fighter jets briefly entered Swedish territory over the Baltic Sea on Wednesday, the Swedish Armed Forces said, sparking a swift condemnation from Sweden’s defence minister.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-armed-forces-says-russian-fighter-jets-violated-swedish-airspace-2022-03-02/
Two Russian SU27 and two SU24 fighter jets briefly entered Swedish airspace east of the Swedish island of Gotland in the Baltic Sea, Sweden’s Armed Forces said in a statement, adding that Swedish JAS 39 Gripen jets were sent to document the violation.
Date: 4/03/2022 01:24:57
From: dv
ID: 1855629
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
DW News is reporting that there have been significant losses of Russian hardware in the convoy due to attacks from antitank weapons. No estimates of numbers, just “significant” so take that how you will.
I am liking the feel of DW News, it does seem a bit more intelligent than the US news cycles.
Date: 4/03/2022 01:26:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855630
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
DW News is reporting that there have been significant losses of Russian hardware in the convoy due to attacks from antitank weapons. No estimates of numbers, just “significant” so take that how you will.
I am liking the feel of DW News, it does seem a bit more intelligent than the US news cycles.
I watch a lot of DW news.
Date: 4/03/2022 01:31:20
From: dv
ID: 1855634
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The only independent national radio station in Russia, Ekho Moskvy, has closed after being taken off-air because of its war coverage.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/03/russian-liberal-radio-mainstay-ekho-moskvy-closes-after-pulled-off-the-air-a76730
Date: 4/03/2022 01:32:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855635
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

floods, fires, preventable dementiavirus but kind of appreciating living on a remote southern island right about now
Date: 4/03/2022 01:43:17
From: dv
ID: 1855638
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
DW News is reporting that there have been significant losses of Russian hardware in the convoy due to attacks from antitank weapons. No estimates of numbers, just “significant” so take that how you will.
I am liking the feel of DW News, it does seem a bit more intelligent than the US news cycles.
I watch a lot of DW news.
Meanwhile Fox News appears to have gone into full multiple personality mode. “Why are we helping Ukraine?” and also “Why didn’t we help Ukraine sooner?”
Date: 4/03/2022 02:00:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855643
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
My ancestors were Irish mercenaries. Fight for anyone, for a price (Rule 1: don’t get killed. Dead mercenaries didn’t get paid.)
The idea of being paid to surrender would have appealed to them enormously.
so now even more Russians are signing up so they can do some sightseeing in Ukraine with all expenses paid
Yeah, where’s the nearest Russian Army recruiting office? (Those Ukraine girls really knock me out.)
https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1499012343581364224

Date: 4/03/2022 02:06:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855645
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 02:09:42
From: dv
ID: 1855646
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In an unusual move, more than 150 Russian Orthodox clerics have called for an immediate stop to the ongoing war in Ukraine in an open letter issued on March 1.
At least 176 Orthodox clerics said that they “respect the freedom of any person given to him or her by God,” adding that the people of Ukraine “must make their own choices by themselves, not at the point of assault rifles and without pressure from either West or East.”
he letter says the clerics “bewail” the suffering that has been “undeservingly imposed on our brothers and sisters in Ukraine.”
It is very rare for such a large number of religious clerics of the Orthodox Church to openly challenge President Vladimir Putin’s government. In recent years, the Russian Orthodox Church and its leader, Patriarch Kirill, who did not sign the letter, have fully supported Putin’s policies.
“We call on all opposing sides for a dialogue because there is no other alternative to violence,” the letter says. “Only an ability to hear the other side can give us hope to get out of the abyss our countries were thrown into several days ago. Let yourself and us all enter the Easter Lent in the spirit of faith and love. Stop the war.”
There was no comment or other reaction from Patriarch Kirill or from Russian officials.
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-orthodox-clerics-stop-war-ukrane/31730667.html
Date: 4/03/2022 02:12:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855648
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
more than 150 Russian Orthodox clerics have called for an immediate stop to the ongoing war in Ukraine in an open letter issued on March 1.
“We call on all opposing sides for a dialogue because there is no other alternative to violence,”
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-orthodox-clerics-stop-war-ukrane/31730667.html
man CHINA and their state atheism must feel a bit red in the face now that the religious fanatics are saying the same as they are
Date: 4/03/2022 02:17:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855652
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
floods, fires, preventable dementiavirus but kind of appreciating living on a remote southern island right about now

Ха́рків, allegedly
backing (without the atrocity) could be mistaken for parts of Melbourne
Date: 4/03/2022 03:11:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855659
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 03:26:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855662
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 03:37:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855663
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 04:56:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855669
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
They’ve taken delivery of more Bayraktar TB2s from Turkey, but they’re probably not the most effective weapon against long lines of sitting ducks.
Better against carefully chosen fuel tankers and ammunition trucks etc.
I think you are too narrow in your definition of “Effective”.
If you want to destroy every vehicle and person in that convoy, then an A10 Warthog would do so in a few minutes, very effectively.
But if you want to just stop them from invading, then you only need to take out select items along the convoy. They can’t advance or retreat, and they can’t go off-road. Lack of water and food will force all remaining personnel to withdraw on foot to spread the word back to the homeland while leaving a pile of nice equipment for the Ukraine.
Yeah … they mentioned that there’s really no way for them to go back on the same route, the road isn’t wide enough for them to pass and the margins are softening as winter ends. Is it possible that they did in fact fuck this up?
It was meant to be about intimidation but as you say, they fucked up.
They simply could have bombarded the place from afar and the air. Which is what they have ended up doing anyway.
Date: 4/03/2022 05:21:12
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855670
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
They simply could have bombarded the place from afar and the air. Which is what they have ended up doing anyway.
since the leader is ruthless anyway would have made sense
commit a surprise atrocity upfront, before anyone has time to react
by the time you’ve taken the capital and installed your choice of government
you can just bunker down and actually do peacekeeping suppression and say
“see we really are keeping the peace and we’re not killing anyone calm down now”
Date: 4/03/2022 08:38:12
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855682
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Yeah … they mentioned that there’s really no way for them to go back on the same route, the road isn’t wide enough for them to pass and the margins are softening as winter ends. Is it possible that they did in fact fuck this up?
It was meant to be about intimidation but as you say, they fucked up.
They simply could have bombarded the place from afar and the air. Which is what they have ended up doing anyway.
I suspect that the Russians wanted to do this in winter, but Putin held off until the Olympics were over so as to not annoy the Chinese(he knew he’d need friends when it happened).
And the Russians may have misled themselves about how much support there was in Ukraine for this thing. Possibly thought, no worries, even if we stick to the roads, we’ll be at the Polish border in a week.
Date: 4/03/2022 08:44:28
From: dv
ID: 1855683
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 08:50:46
From: Michael V
ID: 1855684
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Yes. Why Mr Poo-Tin, why, oh why?
Date: 4/03/2022 08:54:37
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1855685
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

“Breadbaskets”
Date: 4/03/2022 08:58:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855686
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
dv said:

“Breadbaskets”
How many people is that thirty tons supposed to provide for?
Sounds more like a photo opp than a humanitarian mission.
Date: 4/03/2022 09:00:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855687
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
dv said:

“Breadbaskets”
How many people is that thirty tons supposed to provide for?
Sounds more like a photo opp than a humanitarian mission.
The poster of that missive is a notorious Scottish troll, an embarrassment to a fine country.
Date: 4/03/2022 10:06:38
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855697
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Be prepared for maximum dishonesty from Russia in the days ahead.
This is one of the key reasons dictators like Putin regard themselves as “superior to the West”.
“The West is hampered by morality and a sense of justice – we have no such weaknesses, and know how to exploit them.”
>US officials claim they have evidence of a Russian plan to make a “very graphic” fake video of a Ukrainian attack as a pretext for an invasion.
The alleged plot would involve using corpses, footage of blown-up buildings, fake Ukrainian military hardware, Turkish-made drones and actors playing the part of Russian-speaking mourners.
“We don’t know definitively that this is the route they are going to take, but we know that this is an option under consideration,” the deputy national security adviser, Jonathan Finer, told MSNBC, adding that the video “would involve actors playing mourners for people who are killed in an event that they would have created themselves”.
Finer added: “That would involve the deployment of corpses to represent bodies purportedly killed, of people purportedly killed in an incident like this.”
The Pentagon spokesman, John Kirby, said the video would have purported to show a Ukrainian attack on Russian territory or Russian-speaking people in eastern Ukraine and would be “very graphic”. He added that the US believed that the plan had the backing of the Kremlin.
“Our experience is that very little of this nature is not approved at the highest levels of the Russian government,” Kirby said.
Sobol tweeted that a fake pro-Putin rally is being organized by Russian troops in Kherson.
From Guardian live.
Date: 4/03/2022 10:12:22
From: dv
ID: 1855698
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 10:23:47
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855703
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

That’s to feed their soldiers who didn’t about enough sandwiches to last the operation.
Date: 4/03/2022 10:29:13
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855707
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Be prepared for maximum dishonesty from Russia in the days ahead.
This is one of the key reasons dictators like Putin regard themselves as “superior to the West”.
“The West is hampered by morality and a sense of justice – we have no such weaknesses, and know how to exploit them.”
>US officials claim they have evidence of a Russian plan to make a “very graphic” fake video of a Ukrainian attack as a pretext for an invasion.
The alleged plot would involve using corpses, footage of blown-up buildings, fake Ukrainian military hardware, Turkish-made drones and actors playing the part of Russian-speaking mourners.
“We don’t know definitively that this is the route they are going to take, but we know that this is an option under consideration,” the deputy national security adviser, Jonathan Finer, told MSNBC, adding that the video “would involve actors playing mourners for people who are killed in an event that they would have created themselves”.
Finer added: “That would involve the deployment of corpses to represent bodies purportedly killed, of people purportedly killed in an incident like this.”
The Pentagon spokesman, John Kirby, said the video would have purported to show a Ukrainian attack on Russian territory or Russian-speaking people in eastern Ukraine and would be “very graphic”. He added that the US believed that the plan had the backing of the Kremlin.
“Our experience is that very little of this nature is not approved at the highest levels of the Russian government,” Kirby said.
Sobol tweeted that a fake pro-Putin rally is being organized by Russian troops in Kherson.
From Guardian live.
The United Nations should declare fake war news to instigate a war, to be a war crime.
Date: 4/03/2022 10:32:13
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1855708
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:02:53
From: dv
ID: 1855721
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:

Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.

Date: 4/03/2022 11:04:58
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1855724
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:

Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.

Line by line, left to right.
Got it, ta.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:07:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855725
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:

Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.
Like i said earlier, Putin was worried about Ukraine joining NATO.
If Russia loses this debacle, there’s no way in the world that Ukraine won’t join NATO.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:14:02
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855731
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:

Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.
Like i said earlier, Putin was worried about Ukraine joining NATO.
If Russia loses this debacle, there’s no way in the world that Ukraine won’t join NATO.
I figure that Russia is going to have to lose this, and in the next month or three. The sanctions are really starting to hurt and they’ve only been going for a couple of weeks. It’s a variation of the cold war between the US and USSR, though somewhat accelerated now because Russia is far more reliant on the rest of the world than they used to be when they were the USSR, and Russia itself is smaller now and has fewer resources than the USSR had.
The uber-rich in Russia are starting to get punished badly by the sanctions, they will no doubt be pushing for all this to end ASAP and quite likely to get rid of Putin as a bonus.
The sceptic in me thinks that the USA kinda wants all this to happen as it’ll really peg Russia back a heck of a lot. Perhaps China wants it as well for the same reason.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:17:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855734
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.
Like i said earlier, Putin was worried about Ukraine joining NATO.
If Russia loses this debacle, there’s no way in the world that Ukraine won’t join NATO.
I figure that Russia is going to have to lose this, and in the next month or three. The sanctions are really starting to hurt and they’ve only been going for a couple of weeks. It’s a variation of the cold war between the US and USSR, though somewhat accelerated now because Russia is far more reliant on the rest of the world than they used to be when they were the USSR, and Russia itself is smaller now and has fewer resources than the USSR had.
The uber-rich in Russia are starting to get punished badly by the sanctions, they will no doubt be pushing for all this to end ASAP and quite likely to get rid of Putin as a bonus.
The sceptic in me thinks that the USA kinda wants all this to happen as it’ll really peg Russia back a heck of a lot. Perhaps China wants it as well for the same reason.
Yes, I hope the Russian oligarchs can get rid of Putin, I would like to see his downfall.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:17:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855735
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:

Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.
Like i said earlier, Putin was worried about Ukraine joining NATO.
If Russia loses this debacle, there’s no way in the world that Ukraine won’t join NATO.
I figure that Russia is going to have to lose this, and in the next month or three. The sanctions are really starting to hurt and they’ve only been going for a couple of weeks. It’s a variation of the cold war between the US and USSR, though somewhat accelerated now because Russia is far more reliant on the rest of the world than they used to be when they were the USSR, and Russia itself is smaller now and has fewer resources than the USSR had.
The uber-rich in Russia are starting to get punished badly by the sanctions, they will no doubt be pushing for all this to end ASAP and quite likely to get rid of Putin as a bonus.
The sceptic in me thinks that the USA kinda wants all this to happen as it’ll really peg Russia back a heck of a lot. Perhaps China wants it as well for the same reason.
Speaking of CHINA the Chinese frame reading order works well and is just as entertaining in this case ¡
as in
3 1
4 2
Date: 4/03/2022 11:22:18
From: Cymek
ID: 1855739
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Just a polite request if I may stout yeoman.
Could you number the frames in order of reading them.
Cheers.
Like i said earlier, Putin was worried about Ukraine joining NATO.
If Russia loses this debacle, there’s no way in the world that Ukraine won’t join NATO.
I figure that Russia is going to have to lose this, and in the next month or three. The sanctions are really starting to hurt and they’ve only been going for a couple of weeks. It’s a variation of the cold war between the US and USSR, though somewhat accelerated now because Russia is far more reliant on the rest of the world than they used to be when they were the USSR, and Russia itself is smaller now and has fewer resources than the USSR had.
The uber-rich in Russia are starting to get punished badly by the sanctions, they will no doubt be pushing for all this to end ASAP and quite likely to get rid of Putin as a bonus.
The sceptic in me thinks that the USA kinda wants all this to happen as it’ll really peg Russia back a heck of a lot. Perhaps China wants it as well for the same reason.
Putin might decide to launch all his nukes and go out in a blaze of glory
Date: 4/03/2022 11:25:45
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855747
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Like i said earlier, Putin was worried about Ukraine joining NATO.
If Russia loses this debacle, there’s no way in the world that Ukraine won’t join NATO.
I figure that Russia is going to have to lose this, and in the next month or three. The sanctions are really starting to hurt and they’ve only been going for a couple of weeks. It’s a variation of the cold war between the US and USSR, though somewhat accelerated now because Russia is far more reliant on the rest of the world than they used to be when they were the USSR, and Russia itself is smaller now and has fewer resources than the USSR had.
The uber-rich in Russia are starting to get punished badly by the sanctions, they will no doubt be pushing for all this to end ASAP and quite likely to get rid of Putin as a bonus.
The sceptic in me thinks that the USA kinda wants all this to happen as it’ll really peg Russia back a heck of a lot. Perhaps China wants it as well for the same reason.
Putin might decide to launch all his nukes and go out in a blaze of glory
That does concern me, but I would hope that like with the previous US president there would be more rational people that could stop that happening.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:29:07
From: Cymek
ID: 1855748
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:
Spiny Norman said:
I figure that Russia is going to have to lose this, and in the next month or three. The sanctions are really starting to hurt and they’ve only been going for a couple of weeks. It’s a variation of the cold war between the US and USSR, though somewhat accelerated now because Russia is far more reliant on the rest of the world than they used to be when they were the USSR, and Russia itself is smaller now and has fewer resources than the USSR had.
The uber-rich in Russia are starting to get punished badly by the sanctions, they will no doubt be pushing for all this to end ASAP and quite likely to get rid of Putin as a bonus.
The sceptic in me thinks that the USA kinda wants all this to happen as it’ll really peg Russia back a heck of a lot. Perhaps China wants it as well for the same reason.
Putin might decide to launch all his nukes and go out in a blaze of glory
That does concern me, but I would hope that like with the previous US president there would be more rational people that could stop that happening.
I was wondering what sort of safeguards the Russians have in place to stop that sort of thing happening.
You’d have to wouldn’t you
He could back down and then punish Europe (probably not as they’d need the income) by turning off gas supplies
Date: 4/03/2022 11:30:16
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855749
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

last time there was such a contrast was when Muammar met José Luis Rodríguez those were the days
Date: 4/03/2022 11:31:10
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855750
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:
Putin might decide to launch all his nukes and go out in a blaze of glory
That does concern me, but I would hope that like with the previous US president there would be more rational people that could stop that happening.
I was wondering what sort of safeguards the Russians have in place to stop that sort of thing happening.
You’d have to wouldn’t you
He could back down and then punish Europe (probably not as they’d need the income) by turning off gas supplies
You ask about my conscience
And I offer you my soul
You ask if I’ll grow to be a wise man
Well I ask if I’ll grow old
You ask me if I known love
And what it’s like to sing songs in the rain?
Well, I’ve seen love come
I’ve seen it shot down
I’ve seen it die in vain
Date: 4/03/2022 11:32:03
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855751
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
last time there was such a contrast was when Muammar met José Luis Rodríguez those were the days
It’s a small point but…
…i dislike people who appear to have their ‘baseball’ hats superglued to their heads.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:32:23
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855752
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
last time there was such a contrast was when Muammar met José Luis Rodríguez those were the days
our bad please delete the Rodríguez part
Date: 4/03/2022 11:32:43
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855753
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:
Putin might decide to launch all his nukes and go out in a blaze of glory
That does concern me, but I would hope that like with the previous US president there would be more rational people that could stop that happening.
I was wondering what sort of safeguards the Russians have in place to stop that sort of thing happening.
You’d have to wouldn’t you
He could back down and then punish Europe (probably not as they’d need the income) by turning off gas supplies
I’m pretty sure that’s already happened. Russia certainly isn’t getting paid for the gas now at least.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:34:36
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855755
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:

last time there was such a contrast was when Muammar met José Luis those were the days
It’s a small point but…
…i dislike people who appear to have their ‘baseball’ hats superglued to their heads.
at least turn it sideways hey
one interesting thing is how after Litvinenko you can see all the cups and bottled water untouched
Date: 4/03/2022 11:35:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1855756
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
last time there was such a contrast was when Muammar met José Luis Rodríguez those were the days
It’s a small point but…
…i dislike people who appear to have their ‘baseball’ hats superglued to their heads.
You’d worry if it was backwards as well
“Hmm this fratboy is a worry will he exchange territory for a kegger”
Date: 4/03/2022 11:36:07
From: Woodie
ID: 1855757
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
He could back down and then punish Europe (probably not as they’d need the income) by turning off gas supplies
Yep. And half of Europe would freeze to death over night. No need for nukes.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:36:12
From: Tamb
ID: 1855758
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:
Spiny Norman said:
That does concern me, but I would hope that like with the previous US president there would be more rational people that could stop that happening.
I was wondering what sort of safeguards the Russians have in place to stop that sort of thing happening.
You’d have to wouldn’t you
He could back down and then punish Europe (probably not as they’d need the income) by turning off gas supplies
I’m pretty sure that’s already happened. Russia certainly isn’t getting paid for the gas now at least.
Near the end of
WWII, Hitler gave orders for German infrastructure to be destroyed to punish the German people. His orders were largely ignored.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:37:20
From: Cymek
ID: 1855759
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
If the Russians leave they could to be spiteful and damage the Chernobyl safeguards to cause chaos
Date: 4/03/2022 11:41:28
From: Michael V
ID: 1855760
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:
I was wondering what sort of safeguards the Russians have in place to stop that sort of thing happening.
You’d have to wouldn’t you
He could back down and then punish Europe (probably not as they’d need the income) by turning off gas supplies
I’m pretty sure that’s already happened. Russia certainly isn’t getting paid for the gas now at least.
Near the end of WWII, Hitler gave orders for German infrastructure to be destroyed to punish the German people. His orders were largely ignored.
Punish the German people for what?
Date: 4/03/2022 11:42:25
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855761
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 11:43:45
From: Tamb
ID: 1855762
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:
I’m pretty sure that’s already happened. Russia certainly isn’t getting paid for the gas now at least.
Near the end of WWII, Hitler gave orders for German infrastructure to be destroyed to punish the German people. His orders were largely ignored.
Punish the German people for what?
He said they lacked the will to win and were cowards.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:46:24
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855764
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russia stops rocket engine sales to US as space cooperation frays
They don’t really need them now anyway, the SpaceX Raptor 2 is better than anything else on the market right now. And much cheaper.
Date: 4/03/2022 11:52:36
From: Cymek
ID: 1855766
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:
I’m pretty sure that’s already happened. Russia certainly isn’t getting paid for the gas now at least.
Near the end of WWII, Hitler gave orders for German infrastructure to be destroyed to punish the German people. His orders were largely ignored.
Punish the German people for what?
Dying in the millions
Date: 4/03/2022 11:52:58
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855767
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 11:55:04
From: Tamb
ID: 1855768
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
Tamb said:
Near the end of WWII, Hitler gave orders for German infrastructure to be destroyed to punish the German people. His orders were largely ignored.
Punish the German people for what?
Dying in the millions
He believed in the Triumph of the Will (German: Triumph des Willens) is a 1935 Nazi propaganda film directed, produced, edited and co-written by Leni Riefenstahl. It chronicles the 1934 Nazi Party Congress in Nuremberg, which was attended by more than 700,000 Nazi supporters.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:01:14
From: fsm
ID: 1855773
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Nuclear power plant in Ukraine on fire after Russian attack
The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine, the largest of its kind in Europe, was on fire early on Friday after an attack by Russian troops, Ukrainian authorities said.
Dmytro Orlov, mayor of Enerhodar, a city in Ukraine’s south located close to the power plant, said the plant had been shelled by Russian forces.
“As a result of continuous enemy shelling of buildings and units of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is on fire,” Orlov said on his Telegram channel, citing what he called a threat to world security.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:02:53
From: Michael V
ID: 1855776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Michael V said:
Tamb said:
Near the end of WWII, Hitler gave orders for German infrastructure to be destroyed to punish the German people. His orders were largely ignored.
Punish the German people for what?
He said they lacked the will to win and were cowards.
Ah, thanks.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:03:32
From: dv
ID: 1855777
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It has been confirmed now that Magomed Tushayev was killed near Kyiv. There was a moment there where Russians were denying it but nah. “General Magomed Tushayevwas a notorious Chechen general who led what was called an ‘anti-gay purge’in the Chechnya region of Russia, torturing and murdering people suspected of being part of the LGBTQ+ community. “
Thoughts and prayers
Date: 4/03/2022 12:04:21
From: Cymek
ID: 1855778
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Nuclear power plant in Ukraine on fire after Russian attack
The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine, the largest of its kind in Europe, was on fire early on Friday after an attack by Russian troops, Ukrainian authorities said.
Dmytro Orlov, mayor of Enerhodar, a city in Ukraine’s south located close to the power plant, said the plant had been shelled by Russian forces.
“As a result of continuous enemy shelling of buildings and units of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is on fire,” Orlov said on his Telegram channel, citing what he called a threat to world security.
I read that, seriously targeting a nuclear power plant, true its power generation but its like salting the earth
Date: 4/03/2022 12:05:17
From: fsm
ID: 1855779
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 12:06:07
From: Woodie
ID: 1855780
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Tamb said:
Michael V said:
Punish the German people for what?
He said they lacked the will to win and were cowards.
Ah, thanks.
They also destroyed a lot of infrastructure when retreating (railway lines, bridges etc) to hinder the allied advances.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:08:29
From: Cymek
ID: 1855782
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The news mentioned the discrimination against non Ukrainian looking refugees by some Polish and Ukrainian authorities, poor form
Date: 4/03/2022 12:10:16
From: fsm
ID: 1855784
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 12:11:05
From: Michael V
ID: 1855785
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Nuclear power plant in Ukraine on fire after Russian attack
The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine, the largest of its kind in Europe, was on fire early on Friday after an attack by Russian troops, Ukrainian authorities said.
Dmytro Orlov, mayor of Enerhodar, a city in Ukraine’s south located close to the power plant, said the plant had been shelled by Russian forces.
“As a result of continuous enemy shelling of buildings and units of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is on fire,” Orlov said on his Telegram channel, citing what he called a threat to world security.
Oh, shit. I hope this pans out to be incorrect.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:11:30
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855786
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
FFS ….
:(
Date: 4/03/2022 12:12:00
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855787
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Belarus dictator and Putin ally Lukashenko explains the war to state media.

Date: 4/03/2022 12:12:20
From: Cymek
ID: 1855788
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
fsm said:
Nuclear power plant in Ukraine on fire after Russian attack
The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine, the largest of its kind in Europe, was on fire early on Friday after an attack by Russian troops, Ukrainian authorities said.
Dmytro Orlov, mayor of Enerhodar, a city in Ukraine’s south located close to the power plant, said the plant had been shelled by Russian forces.
“As a result of continuous enemy shelling of buildings and units of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is on fire,” Orlov said on his Telegram channel, citing what he called a threat to world security.
Oh, shit. I hope this pans out to be incorrect.
Could be a tactic to try to get them to surrender
Date: 4/03/2022 12:13:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1855789
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Belarus dictator and Putin ally Lukashenko explains the war to state media.

He’s a real piece of work isn’t he
Date: 4/03/2022 12:14:09
From: fsm
ID: 1855791
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 12:20:15
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Nuclear power plant in Ukraine on fire after Russian attack
The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine, the largest of its kind in Europe, was on fire early on Friday after an attack by Russian troops, Ukrainian authorities said.
Dmytro Orlov, mayor of Enerhodar, a city in Ukraine’s south located close to the power plant, said the plant had been shelled by Russian forces.
“As a result of continuous enemy shelling of buildings and units of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is on fire,” Orlov said on his Telegram channel, citing what he called a threat to world security.
Attacking nuclear plants should be a war crime.
Radiation leakage could spread over Europe or Russia. Who knows where the wind blows.
Reckless and very dangerous.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:26:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855799
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Igor Sechin not a happy chappy.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:27:50
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855800
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
Did they fact fact Sasha Gillies-Lekakis’s claim?
“Since 2014, the Ukrainian government, together with Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, have besieged the Russian populations in the Donbas, killing an estimated 13,000 people, according to the United Nations.”
Leaving the claim in thin air isn’t helpful to the audience.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:29:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855801
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian conscripts who are no longer needed, waiting to be sent by their superiors from Ukraine back to Russia, as long as they sign documents apparently claiming they were never in Ukraine.
No food and with no shelter for days, just sleeping on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NTS6kts3uA&t=6s
Date: 4/03/2022 12:30:47
From: Cymek
ID: 1855803
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I see Russian vodka is being removed from shop, the proper thing to do is to just bin it carefully in unlocked skip bin with easy access
Date: 4/03/2022 12:31:42
From: fsm
ID: 1855804
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:34:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855807
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
Did they fact fact Sasha Gillies-Lekakis’s claim?
“Since 2014, the Ukrainian government, together with Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, have besieged the Russian populations in the Donbas, killing an estimated 13,000 people, according to the United Nations.”
Leaving the claim in thin air isn’t helpful to the audience.
Sorry, that should be fact check.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:35:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855809
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russian conscripts who are no longer needed, waiting to be sent by their superiors from Ukraine back to Russia, as long as they sign documents apparently claiming they were never in Ukraine.
No food and with no shelter for days, just sleeping on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NTS6kts3uA&t=6s
This that to get out of not paying them wages or compensation?
Date: 4/03/2022 12:35:48
From: Ian
ID: 1855810
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
I suppose they’ve upgraded all the old style emergency procedures and containment buildings by now.. or?
Date: 4/03/2022 12:36:15
From: Speedy
ID: 1855812
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
Oh dear :(
Date: 4/03/2022 12:37:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855814
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian conscripts who are no longer needed, waiting to be sent by their superiors from Ukraine back to Russia, as long as they sign documents apparently claiming they were never in Ukraine.
No food and with no shelter for days, just sleeping on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NTS6kts3uA&t=6s
This that to get out of not paying them wages or compensation?
grr
Is this to get out of not paying them wages or compensation?
Date: 4/03/2022 12:38:54
From: fsm
ID: 1855816
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zaporozhiya nuclear power plant

Date: 4/03/2022 12:38:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855817
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian conscripts who are no longer needed, waiting to be sent by their superiors from Ukraine back to Russia, as long as they sign documents apparently claiming they were never in Ukraine.
No food and with no shelter for days, just sleeping on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NTS6kts3uA&t=6s
This that to get out of not paying them wages or compensation?
Presumably, and trying to avoid the fact that they were never told were they were going and why.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:39:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855818
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
thing is if you’re fighting near a little generator, and an accident happens, it’s not an intentional act of war so
Date: 4/03/2022 12:40:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855821
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Zaporozhiya nuclear power plant

… hey that looks a little like Beirut but they had before and after shots of that …
Date: 4/03/2022 12:42:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855825
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine now claiming 9000 enemy dead.
Even allowing for exaggeration, the overall briefing does persuade that the defence is holding, for the most part.
Arestovych: The enemy has already lost 9,000 soldiers on Ukrainian soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66tYsXjjgOw
Date: 4/03/2022 12:42:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855826
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian conscripts who are no longer needed, waiting to be sent by their superiors from Ukraine back to Russia, as long as they sign documents apparently claiming they were never in Ukraine.
No food and with no shelter for days, just sleeping on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NTS6kts3uA&t=6s
This that to get out of not paying them wages or compensation?
Presumably, and trying to avoid the fact that they were never told were they were going and why.
Russia abusing its own soldiers.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:44:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855829
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
This that to get out of not paying them wages or compensation?
Presumably, and trying to avoid the fact that they were never told were they were going and why.
Russia abusing its own soldiers.
I hope that can be used against Putin.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:49:02
From: Michael V
ID: 1855841
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
Did they fact fact Sasha Gillies-Lekakis’s claim?
“Since 2014, the Ukrainian government, together with Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, have besieged the Russian populations in the Donbas, killing an estimated 13,000 people, according to the United Nations.”
Leaving the claim in thin air isn’t helpful to the audience.
Yes they did.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:51:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855845
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
Did they fact fact Sasha Gillies-Lekakis’s claim?
“Since 2014, the Ukrainian government, together with Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, have besieged the Russian populations in the Donbas, killing an estimated 13,000 people, according to the United Nations.”
Leaving the claim in thin air isn’t helpful to the audience.
Yes they did.
They did fact check it.
ok.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:52:58
From: Michael V
ID: 1855849
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
Did they fact fact Sasha Gillies-Lekakis’s claim?
“Since 2014, the Ukrainian government, together with Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, have besieged the Russian populations in the Donbas, killing an estimated 13,000 people, according to the United Nations.”
Leaving the claim in thin air isn’t helpful to the audience.
Sorry, that should be fact check.
Yes they did. The Russian was wrong. UN says about 13,000 killed overall, but doesn’t apportion it only to Russian supporters/speakers.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:53:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855850
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Ukrainian State Emergency Service is reporting that radiation and fire safety conditions at the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant are “within normal limits”.
An update on the agency’s official Telegram account reads:
As of 02:26 in the city of Energodar at the Zaporozhye NPP, the third power unit was disconnected from the unified energy system (only Unit 4 is operating). Of the six power units, one is currently operating.
Radiation and fire safety conditions at nuclear power plants are within normal limits.
Fire condition at the NPP is normal.”
Guardian
Date: 4/03/2022 12:55:07
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855852
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
Did they fact fact Sasha Gillies-Lekakis’s claim?
“Since 2014, the Ukrainian government, together with Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, have besieged the Russian populations in the Donbas, killing an estimated 13,000 people, according to the United Nations.”
Leaving the claim in thin air isn’t helpful to the audience.
Sorry, that should be fact check.
Yes they did. The Russian was wrong. UN says about 13,000 killed overall, but doesn’t apportion it only to Russian supporters/speakers.
ok, thanks for clearing that up.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:56:23
From: Woodie
ID: 1855857
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Ukraine now claiming 9000 enemy dead.
Even allowing for exaggeration, the overall briefing does persuade that the defence is holding, for the most part.
Arestovych: The enemy has already lost 9,000 soldiers on Ukrainian soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66tYsXjjgOw
Where are they putin’ them all?
Date: 4/03/2022 12:56:39
From: Michael V
ID: 1855858
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
This is incredibly concerning.
Date: 4/03/2022 12:57:53
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1855860
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
fsm said:
Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
This is incredibly concerning.
Understatement of the day. :(
Date: 4/03/2022 13:00:40
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1855863
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
And the shell is one of the most important parts.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:00:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855864
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Bubblecar said:
Ukraine now claiming 9000 enemy dead.
Even allowing for exaggeration, the overall briefing does persuade that the defence is holding, for the most part.
Arestovych: The enemy has already lost 9,000 soldiers on Ukrainian soil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66tYsXjjgOw
Where are they putin’ them all?
Dunno. Depends on who’s recovering them and what their policies and abilities are in this situation.
Ukrainians are apparently making some effort to collect Russian bodies for the Red Cross to deal with.
Russia itself has reportedly been sending many truckloads of dead back to Russia.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:01:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1855866
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
Did they fact fact Sasha Gillies-Lekakis’s claim?
“Since 2014, the Ukrainian government, together with Nazi groups like the Azov battalion, have besieged the Russian populations in the Donbas, killing an estimated 13,000 people, according to the United Nations.”
Leaving the claim in thin air isn’t helpful to the audience.
Yes they did.
Watch the episode, and you will see why he was asked to leave.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:07:14
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855872
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
fsm said:
Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
This is incredibly concerning.
Understatement of the day. :(
Andrey Tuz, spokesman for the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant, has said shelling has stopped for the time being, but the situation is extremely uncertain.
Speaking to the BBC Russian Service, he said:
They bombed everything they could, including blocks and everything else. Now the information is being clarified, it’s hard to say everything. a white car, representatives of the Russian military, has left. It’s flashing with its headlights. Now it’s being determined whether they will be approached for negotiations, or how to proceed further.”
Date: 4/03/2022 13:07:42
From: dv
ID: 1855873
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Facts
Date: 4/03/2022 13:12:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855875
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Facts
Wonder which would win the Ugliest Oligarch competition.
Sechin would have to be a strong contender.

Date: 4/03/2022 13:14:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1855876
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Facts
Wonder which would win the Ugliest Oligarch competition.
Sechin would have to be a strong contender.

I am Russian Kingpin, I will kill Spidercomrade
Date: 4/03/2022 13:19:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855877
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Facts
Wonder which would win the Ugliest Oligarch competition.
Sechin would have to be a strong contender.

I am Russian Kingpin, I will kill Spidercomrade
His eyes, they turn into death rays.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:25:18
From: Michael V
ID: 1855879
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
The Ukrainian State Emergency Service is reporting that radiation and fire safety conditions at the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant are “within normal limits”.
An update on the agency’s official Telegram account reads:
As of 02:26 in the city of Energodar at the Zaporozhye NPP, the third power unit was disconnected from the unified energy system (only Unit 4 is operating). Of the six power units, one is currently operating.
Radiation and fire safety conditions at nuclear power plants are within normal limits.
Fire condition at the NPP is normal.”
Guardian
Let’s hope so.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:27:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855880
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Cymek said:
Bubblecar said:
Wonder which would win the Ugliest Oligarch competition.
Sechin would have to be a strong contender.

I am Russian Kingpin, I will kill Spidercomrade
His eyes, they turn into death rays.
“A smile costs nothing”

“But I’m not here to smile.”

Date: 4/03/2022 13:28:29
From: fsm
ID: 1855881
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
Date: 4/03/2022 13:30:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855883
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin is being distanced from the rest of the world.

Date: 4/03/2022 13:31:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1855884
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Cymek said:
I am Russian Kingpin, I will kill Spidercomrade
His eyes, they turn into death rays.
“A smile costs nothing”

“But I’m not here to smile.”

Where’s Clive P?
Date: 4/03/2022 13:32:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855885
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
fsm said:
Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
And the shell is one of the most important parts.
What was Vlad thinking? Did he order this assault?
Sending children to fight?
Date: 4/03/2022 13:32:22
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855886
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
Does that that actually work for you? Seems to just be still photos, endlessly buffering.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:33:35
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1855887
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
It’s quite there.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:34:29
From: Michael V
ID: 1855888
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
Does that that actually work for you? Seems to just be still photos, endlessly buffering.
Same for me.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:34:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855889
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
Does that that actually work for you? Seems to just be still photos, endlessly buffering.
i.e., that “that” not just any old that.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:34:55
From: fsm
ID: 1855890
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
Does that that actually work for you? Seems to just be still photos, endlessly buffering.
It is streaming fine for me. The fire is burning merrily.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:35:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855891
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
It’s quite there.
quiet.
Pause the thing see if it loads better?
Date: 4/03/2022 13:36:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855892
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Bubblecar said:
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
Does that that actually work for you? Seems to just be still photos, endlessly buffering.
It is streaming fine for me. The fire is burning merrily.
Obviously you are not still on dialup.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:40:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855895
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Bubblecar said:
fsm said:
Zaporizhia Live Camera – Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant Live Camera – Ukraine Live Cam (24/7)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbQkBW3Tyg
Does that that actually work for you? Seems to just be still photos, endlessly buffering.
It is streaming fine for me. The fire is burning merrily.
I’ll have to take your word for it.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:40:48
From: Michael V
ID: 1855896
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-04/ukrainian-woman-plays-we-are-the-champions-at-polish-border/100880988
Date: 4/03/2022 13:46:43
From: dv
ID: 1855900
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
New York (CNN Business)RT America will cease productions and lay off most of its staff, according to a memo from T&R Productions, the production company behind the Russian state-funded network, which CNN obtained.
Misha Solodovnikov, the general manager of T&R Productions, told staff in the memo that it will be “ceasing production” at all of its locations “as a result of unforeseen business interruption events.”
“Unfortunately, we anticipate this layoff will be permanent, meaning that this will result in the permanent separation from employment of most T&R employees at all locations,” Solodovnikov wrote.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/03/media/rt-america-layoffs/index.html
Date: 4/03/2022 13:48:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855901
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
New York (CNN Business)RT America will cease productions and lay off most of its staff, according to a memo from T&R Productions, the production company behind the Russian state-funded network, which CNN obtained.
Misha Solodovnikov, the general manager of T&R Productions, told staff in the memo that it will be “ceasing production” at all of its locations “as a result of unforeseen business interruption events.”
“Unfortunately, we anticipate this layoff will be permanent, meaning that this will result in the permanent separation from employment of most T&R employees at all locations,” Solodovnikov wrote.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/03/media/rt-america-layoffs/index.html
Jolly good.
Date: 4/03/2022 13:59:37
From: dv
ID: 1855907
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Stop trying to make fetch happen, Ogmog
Date: 4/03/2022 14:07:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855910
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
More Russian war crimes
Smuggling ammo in military ambulances.
Date: 4/03/2022 14:08:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855912
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Peak Warming Man said:
fsm said:
Russian forces shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday in the battle for control of a crucial energy-producing city, and the power station was on fire.
Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.
Firefighters cannot get near the fire because they are being shot at, Tuz said.
A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the site of the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.
Tuz said it is urgent to stop the fighting to put out the flames.
And the shell is one of the most important parts.
What was Vlad thinking? Did he order this assault?
Sending children to fight?
Ukraine’s Center for Strategic Communications and Information Security has posted an update on the situation at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant to the agency’s Telegram account.
It said radiation and fire safety were “within normal limits”.
Russian news agency RIA also reported no unusual radioactive activity at the power plant currently under siege.
Date: 4/03/2022 14:15:25
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855915
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
Peak Warming Man said:
And the shell is one of the most important parts.
What was Vlad thinking? Did he order this assault?
Sending children to fight?
Ukraine’s Center for Strategic Communications and Information Security has posted an update on the situation at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant to the agency’s Telegram account.
It said radiation and fire safety were “within normal limits”.
Russian news agency RIA also reported no unusual radioactive activity at the power plant currently under siege.
Yet.
Date: 4/03/2022 14:16:20
From: fsm
ID: 1855916
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
BORODYANKA/LVIV, Ukraine, March 4 (Reuters) – A fire broke out in a training building outside the largest nuclear power plant in Europe during intense fighting between Russian and Ukrainian forces, Ukraine’s state emergency service said on Friday.
A spokesperson for the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant told RIA that background levels of radiation had not changed. Radiation security had been secured, the plant’s director told Ukraine 24 TV.
A video feed from the plant southeast of the capital Kyiv appeared to show smoke and flames coming from an unidentified building.
Reuters could not immediately verify the information, including the potential seriousness of any fire.
There has been fierce fighting in the area about 550 km (342 miles) southeast of Kyiv, the mayor of the nearby town of Energodar said in an online post. He said there had been casualties, without giving details.
“As a result of continuous enemy shelling of buildings and units of the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is on fire,” Mayor Dmytro Orlov said on his Telegram channel. He did not give details.
Early reports of the incident at the power plant sent financial markets in Asia spiralling, with stocks tumbling and oil prices surging further.
Russia has already captured the defunct Chernobyl plant, some 100 km north of Kyiv, which spewed radioactive waste over much of Europe when it melted down in the world’s worst nuclear disaster in 1986. Some analysts noted the Zaporizhzhia plant is of a different and safer type to Chernobyl.
“Russian army is firing from all sides upon Zaporizhzhia NPP, the largest nuclear power plant in Europe,” Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wrote on Twitter.
“Fire has already broke out … Russians must IMMEDIATELY cease the fire, allow firefighters, establish a security zone!”
Zaporizhzhia provides more than a fifth of total electricity generated in Ukraine.
The International Atomic Energy Agency said in a tweet that it was “aware of reports of shelling” at the power plant and was in contact with Ukrainian authorities about situation.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-1-europes-largest-nuclear-power-plant-fire-after-russian-attack-mayor-2022-03-04/
Date: 4/03/2022 14:21:07
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855917
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

1,2
3,4
:)
Date: 4/03/2022 14:22:41
From: fsm
ID: 1855918
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 14:24:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855920
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Possibly explained to the Russian artillery officers that a supersize nuclear explosion doesn’t discriminate.
Date: 4/03/2022 14:26:18
From: dv
ID: 1855922
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
1,2
3,4
:)
meme evolution is a fascinating field
Date: 4/03/2022 14:30:56
From: fsm
ID: 1855924
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
You can see the fire and some of the fighting here… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK7xG_Q0Tkg
Date: 4/03/2022 14:33:30
From: Cymek
ID: 1855926
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
Peak Warming Man said:
And the shell is one of the most important parts.
What was Vlad thinking? Did he order this assault?
Sending children to fight?
Ukraine’s Center for Strategic Communications and Information Security has posted an update on the situation at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant to the agency’s Telegram account.
It said radiation and fire safety were “within normal limits”.
Russian news agency RIA also reported no unusual radioactive activity at the power plant currently under siege.
Chernobyl 26 April 1986
USSR authorities “Nothing to see here, move along, move along”
Date: 4/03/2022 14:33:57
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855927
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Incredibly stupid tactics to attack nuclear power plants with a couple of hundred thousand of your own troops within cooee.
Date: 4/03/2022 14:34:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855928
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
What was Vlad thinking? Did he order this assault?
Sending children to fight?
Ukraine’s Center for Strategic Communications and Information Security has posted an update on the situation at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant to the agency’s Telegram account.
It said radiation and fire safety were “within normal limits”.
Russian news agency RIA also reported no unusual radioactive activity at the power plant currently under siege.
Chernobyl 26 April 1986
USSR authorities “Nothing to see here, move along, move along”
but but. we are supposed to be the lying nazis.
Date: 4/03/2022 14:38:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1855929
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
Ukraine’s Center for Strategic Communications and Information Security has posted an update on the situation at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant to the agency’s Telegram account.
It said radiation and fire safety were “within normal limits”.
Russian news agency RIA also reported no unusual radioactive activity at the power plant currently under siege.
Chernobyl 26 April 1986
USSR authorities “Nothing to see here, move along, move along”
but but. we are supposed to be the lying nazis.
I reckon its so they can do a second season of the mini series Chernobyl
Chernobyl 2 Electric Boogaloo Zaporizhzhia
Date: 4/03/2022 14:40:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855931
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 14:41:08
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855933
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 14:43:13
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855935
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Interesting proposition…

Headline play.
I reckon Putin could easily put out a $10 million contract for Konanykhin’s ‘arrest’ and transport to Russia.
Date: 4/03/2022 14:45:00
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1855938
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Interesting proposition…

Headline play.
I reckon Putin could easily put out a $10 million contract for Konanykhin’s ‘arrest’ and transport to Russia.
Yes, but if more oligarchs did that….
Date: 4/03/2022 14:55:42
From: fsm
ID: 1855941
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This is a Google translation from the Ukrainian emergency services Telegram account..
As a result of shelling outside the NPP, one of the buildings of the training complex continues to burn. The fire covered 3, 4, 5 floors of a five-storey building.
The occupiers do not allow the SES units to start eliminating the consequences of the fire.
In Energodar, one of the six power units is operating at the Zaporizhzhya NPP.
NPP fire condition is normal.
As of 05:20 at the Zaporizhzhya NPP in Energodar, SES units went to put out the fire in the training building. The SES involved 40 people and 10 units. techniques.
After conducting reconnaissance in the five-storey training building of the Zaporizhzhya NPP in Energodar, it was established that the premises on the third, fourth and fifth floors were on fire. There are no previous victims. 44 people and 11 people were involved in the extinguishing. SES equipment.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:02:08
From: Neophyte
ID: 1855945
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I daresay this has been covered already (apologies if it has), but what’s the deal with the International Space Station at the moment? Hasn’t Russian space tech been used to get there and back? What happens to the bods up there while all the fighting’s going on down here?
Date: 4/03/2022 15:02:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1855947
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Neophyte said:
I daresay this has been covered already (apologies if it has), but what’s the deal with the International Space Station at the moment? Hasn’t Russian space tech been used to get there and back? What happens to the bods up there while all the fighting’s going on down here?
Probably got perspex screens up.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:07:44
From: dv
ID: 1855949
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Neophyte said:
I daresay this has been covered already (apologies if it has), but what’s the deal with the International Space Station at the moment? Hasn’t Russian space tech been used to get there and back? What happens to the bods up there while all the fighting’s going on down here?
SpaceX Crew has been taking astronauts there recently. But there’s a launch of three Russians via Soyuz due two weeks from now. (shrugs)
Date: 4/03/2022 15:31:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855953
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Neophyte said:
I daresay this has been covered already (apologies if it has), but what’s the deal with the International Space Station at the moment? Hasn’t Russian space tech been used to get there and back? What happens to the bods up there while all the fighting’s going on down here?
SpaceX Crew has been taking astronauts there recently. But there’s a launch of three Russians via Soyuz due two weeks from now. (shrugs)
Seems the Soyuz missions are suspended.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:36:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855954
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Home rental company Airbnb Inc is suspending all operations in Russia and Belarus, according to chief executive officer Brian Chesky.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:38:54
From: dv
ID: 1855955
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Home rental company Airbnb Inc is suspending all operations in Russia and Belarus, according to chief executive officer Brian Chesky.
Well that’s my long planned trip to Svietlahorsk up the spout
Date: 4/03/2022 15:39:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855956
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Home rental company Airbnb Inc is suspending all operations in Russia and Belarus, according to chief executive officer Brian Chesky.
Well that’s my long planned trip to Svietlahorsk up the spout
That’s fine though Ukraine is still on the itinerary right ¿
Date: 4/03/2022 15:41:53
From: dv
ID: 1855958
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Home rental company Airbnb Inc is suspending all operations in Russia and Belarus, according to chief executive officer Brian Chesky.
Well that’s my long planned trip to Svietlahorsk up the spout
That’s fine though Ukraine is still on the itinerary right ¿
Cisnistria
Date: 4/03/2022 15:42:45
From: fsm
ID: 1855959
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
IKEA is closing all of its stores in Russia, stopping production in the country and halting all exports and imports to and from Russia and Belarus, the Swedish furniture maker said Thursday.
IKEA brand owner Inter IKEA Group and store owner/operator Ingka Holding BV said in a joint statement that the war in Ukraine has already had a huge human impact and is also resulting in serious disruptions to supply-chain and trading conditions.
“For all of these reasons, the company groups have decided to temporarily pause IKEA operations in Russia,” they said.
Ingka also owns a large portfolio of shopping centers, with 14 locations across Russia operating under its Mega brand. These will remain open to ensure that the many people in Russia have access to their daily needs and essentials such as food, groceries and pharmacies, it said.
Inter IKEA manufactures and supplies products to Ingka’s 392 global IKEA stores, 17 of which are in Russia.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:46:02
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1855960
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Well that’s my long planned trip to Svietlahorsk up the spout
That’s fine though Ukraine is still on the itinerary right ¿
Cisnistria
L-uhansk and D-onetsk
Date: 4/03/2022 15:49:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1855962
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Home rental company Airbnb Inc is suspending all operations in Russia and Belarus, according to chief executive officer Brian Chesky.
Well that’s my long planned trip to Svietlahorsk up the spout
That’s fine though Ukraine is still on the itinerary right ¿
And they’re a lot cheaper there than they were couple of weeks back.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:50:31
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1855963
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Home rental company Airbnb Inc is suspending all operations in Russia and Belarus, according to chief executive officer Brian Chesky.
ABC boots pro Russian citizen from debate.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:51:25
From: Michael V
ID: 1855964
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Well that’s my long planned trip to Svietlahorsk up the spout
That’s fine though Ukraine is still on the itinerary right ¿
Cisnistria
LOL
Date: 4/03/2022 15:52:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1855965
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Home rental company Airbnb Inc is suspending all operations in Russia and Belarus, according to chief executive officer Brian Chesky.
ABC boots pro Russian citizen from debate.
I hope the boot made firm contact with the arse.
Date: 4/03/2022 15:52:30
From: Michael V
ID: 1855966
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
That’s fine though Ukraine is still on the itinerary right ¿
Cisnistria
L-uhansk and D-onetsk
LOL
Date: 4/03/2022 16:08:36
From: buffy
ID: 1855979
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-04/swan-lake-broadcast-signals-turmoil-in-russia/100881424
Date: 4/03/2022 16:10:21
From: dv
ID: 1855982
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
That’s fine though Ukraine is still on the itinerary right ¿
Cisnistria
L-uhansk and D-onetsk
That’s pretty funny
Date: 4/03/2022 16:57:40
From: dv
ID: 1856004
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I missed the memo that, as well as Ukraine, both Moldova and Georgia applied for EU membership yesterday.
Date: 4/03/2022 17:08:24
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1856006
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I missed the memo that, as well as Ukraine, both Moldova and Georgia applied for EU membership yesterday.
Franco German axis rubs hands.
Date: 4/03/2022 17:08:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1856007
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I missed the memo that, as well as Ukraine, both Moldova and Georgia applied for EU membership yesterday.
What’s the legal status of visitors/tourist in a nation killed in a war.
Would it allow their nation to be involved
Date: 4/03/2022 17:11:05
From: dv
ID: 1856008
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
I missed the memo that, as well as Ukraine, both Moldova and Georgia applied for EU membership yesterday.
What’s the legal status of visitors/tourist in a nation killed in a war.
Would it allow their nation to be involved
no
Date: 4/03/2022 17:22:13
From: dv
ID: 1856012
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I also missed the memo that Russia had been banned from the FIFA World Cup.
Date: 4/03/2022 17:23:39
From: dv
ID: 1856013
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
I missed the memo that, as well as Ukraine, both Moldova and Georgia applied for EU membership yesterday.
Franco German axis rubs hands.
Do we have a slur for them? Frauts?
Date: 4/03/2022 17:27:22
From: sibeen
ID: 1856014
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
I missed the memo that, as well as Ukraine, both Moldova and Georgia applied for EU membership yesterday.
Franco German axis rubs hands.
Do we have a slur for them? Frauts?
Krogs.
Date: 4/03/2022 17:36:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856016
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Neophyte said:
I daresay this has been covered already (apologies if it has), but what’s the deal with the International Space Station at the moment? Hasn’t Russian space tech been used to get there and back? What happens to the bods up there while all the fighting’s going on down here?
Space chute, then parachute, but don’t quote me on that.
Date: 4/03/2022 17:37:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856017
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
This is a Google translation from the Ukrainian emergency services Telegram account..
As a result of shelling outside the NPP, one of the buildings of the training complex continues to burn. The fire covered 3, 4, 5 floors of a five-storey building.
The occupiers do not allow the SES units to start eliminating the consequences of the fire.
In Energodar, one of the six power units is operating at the Zaporizhzhya NPP.
NPP fire condition is normal.
As of 05:20 at the Zaporizhzhya NPP in Energodar, SES units went to put out the fire in the training building. The SES involved 40 people and 10 units. techniques.
After conducting reconnaissance in the five-storey training building of the Zaporizhzhya NPP in Energodar, it was established that the premises on the third, fourth and fifth floors were on fire. There are no previous victims. 44 people and 11 people were involved in the extinguishing. SES equipment.
The occupiers do not allow the SES units to start eliminating the consequences of the fire.
05:20 at the Zaporizhzhya NPP in Energodar, SES units went to put out the fire in the training building
A bit confusing.
Date: 4/03/2022 17:37:30
From: dv
ID: 1856018
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Neophyte said:
I daresay this has been covered already (apologies if it has), but what’s the deal with the International Space Station at the moment? Hasn’t Russian space tech been used to get there and back? What happens to the bods up there while all the fighting’s going on down here?
Space chute, then parachute, but don’t quote me on that.
then shoot
Date: 4/03/2022 17:38:53
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856019
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Musk is doing something positive, good to see.


Date: 4/03/2022 17:40:32
From: dv
ID: 1856020
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Musk is doing something positive, good to see.


nice
Date: 4/03/2022 17:51:25
From: sibeen
ID: 1856024
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Musk is doing something positive, good to see.


So no other satellite communication systems are working in the Ukraine. I’m sceptical.
Date: 4/03/2022 18:01:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856027
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine could use some A10 warthogs.
Those km long convoys.
Date: 4/03/2022 18:03:53
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856028
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ukraine could use some A10 warthogs.
Those km long convoys.
They don’t have anyone to fly them though. Better off with Su-25’s, they do the same role and the AF or Army pilots are far more likely to be able to fly them.
Date: 4/03/2022 18:12:23
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856030
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 18:32:55
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856037
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 4/03/2022 21:25:36
From: dv
ID: 1856069
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-latest-russia-law-b2028440.html
Russian Duma passes law giving 15-year prison sentences for spreading ‘false information’ about military
Russia has passed a new law meaning citizens who spread what it described as “fake” information about the military can be jailed for up to 15 years.
It comes as the Kremlin continues to insist that its war with neighbouring Ukraine is a “special operation”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-latest-russia-law-b2028440.html
Date: 4/03/2022 21:42:06
From: Kingy
ID: 1856073
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Russia plans public executions for Ukrainian civilians who protest the invasion of their country.”
Date: 4/03/2022 21:45:10
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856075
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Antonov An-225 didn’t survive the attack at the airport. :(
https://twitter.com/i/status/1499643176998641664
Date: 4/03/2022 21:54:53
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856077
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
The Antonov An-225 didn’t survive the attack at the airport. :(
https://twitter.com/i/status/1499643176998641664
Engines look undamaged.
There is a second airframe somewhere.
Date: 4/03/2022 21:55:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856078
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
The Antonov An-225 didn’t survive the attack at the airport. :(
https://twitter.com/i/status/1499643176998641664
The insurance company isn’t going to like this…
Date: 4/03/2022 21:56:10
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856079
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Spiny Norman said:
The Antonov An-225 didn’t survive the attack at the airport. :(
https://twitter.com/i/status/1499643176998641664
Engines look undamaged.
There is a second airframe somewhere.
Any sort of fragment penetration to the engines means they’re kaput.
Date: 4/03/2022 22:04:14
From: dv
ID: 1856080
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Seem to be a couple of Australian presenters on DW News
Date: 4/03/2022 22:13:25
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1856083
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Q+A host Stan Grant asks pro-Russian audience member to leave the studio after Ukraine claim
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/stan-grant-tells-audience-member-to-leave-qanda/100880520
Date: 4/03/2022 22:14:04
From: dv
ID: 1856085
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Seem to be a couple of Australian presenters on DW News
Having checked their website:
Jared Reed from Perth
Anthony Howard from Melbourne
Rebecca Ritters from Melbourne
Date: 4/03/2022 22:15:02
From: furious
ID: 1856087
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
dv said:
Seem to be a couple of Australian presenters on DW News
Having checked their website:
Jared Reed from Perth
Anthony Howard from Melbourne
Rebecca Ritters from Melbourne
- Rebecca Ritters from Melbourne
Former child actor in a popular Australian TV show…
Date: 5/03/2022 05:36:25
From: dv
ID: 1856184
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-04-22/h_b89a6a882189d860bb64f8e87e8610d5
Direct attacks and a destroyed bridge have slowed Russian convoy advance on Kyiv, US defense official says
Direct attacks on a massive Russian convoy outside Kyiv, coupled with a destroyed bridge in the convoy’s path, have stalled the Russian forces about 15 miles north of the city, a senior defense official said Friday. Meanwhile, Ukraine retains a “significant majority” of its air combat power, as Russia remains unable to establish air supremacy.
The convoy, stretched out more than 40 miles of road, has not appreciably advanced since the weekend, the official said.
“We certainly believe that the Ukrainians blowing up that bridge absolutely had an effective on stopping and curtailing the movement of that convoy,” the official said. “But we also believe that they have hit the convoy at other places as well in direct attacks.”
Earlier this week, the official said logistical and sustainment issues have also contributed to the slow advance of the convoy. But the US believe Russian forces in the convoy are regrouping and learning from their mistakes as they continue to try to attack the Ukrainian capital.
As the fight on the ground continues, the Ukrainian air force still has fighter jets, helicopters and drones available, though they have suffered some losses, the official said. The losses are due both to “Russian actions” and inoperability, the official added.
Date: 5/03/2022 05:45:56
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856185
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-04-22/h_b89a6a882189d860bb64f8e87e8610d5
Direct attacks and a destroyed bridge have slowed Russian convoy advance on Kyiv, US defense official says
Direct attacks on a massive Russian convoy outside Kyiv, coupled with a destroyed bridge in the convoy’s path, have stalled the Russian forces about 15 miles north of the city, a senior defense official said Friday. Meanwhile, Ukraine retains a “significant majority” of its air combat power, as Russia remains unable to establish air supremacy.
The convoy, stretched out more than 40 miles of road, has not appreciably advanced since the weekend, the official said.
“We certainly believe that the Ukrainians blowing up that bridge absolutely had an effective on stopping and curtailing the movement of that convoy,” the official said. “But we also believe that they have hit the convoy at other places as well in direct attacks.”
Earlier this week, the official said logistical and sustainment issues have also contributed to the slow advance of the convoy. But the US believe Russian forces in the convoy are regrouping and learning from their mistakes as they continue to try to attack the Ukrainian capital.
As the fight on the ground continues, the Ukrainian air force still has fighter jets, helicopters and drones available, though they have suffered some losses, the official said. The losses are due both to “Russian actions” and inoperability, the official added.
Which in turn gives the Ukrainians more time to blow up the convoys.
Date: 5/03/2022 05:49:41
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856186
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 5/03/2022 06:52:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856197
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Most people without personal international contacts don’t know what their army is doing. It’s not that they support the war—they don’t even know about it.
Officially, Russia is not at war. It is engaged in a “special military operation” intended to compel peace and “cleanse Ukraine of Nazis.” The Ministry of Defense insists that “the military is not striking residential buildings in Ukrainian cities.” And most people who get their news from Russian sources, as well as those who don’t care very much about the news at all, tend to believe this is true. They know that something’s going on in Ukraine, but they don’t think it’s that big of a deal. They’ve heard about sanctions, but don’t have a good sense of why they’ve been implemented—something about the West trying to crash our economy again, doubtlessly in cahoots with our oligarchs.
One reason people think this way is that Russian media is forbidden to report on the war except by repeating the official state line; they are forbidden to call it a war, an attack, or an invasion. Another reason is that, after years of fake-news scares and internet trolling, people tend not to believe the social media channels and Western media sources that could have served as an alternate news source.
I’ve asked many people from many different walks of life whether they think that we’re shelling Kyiv. Educated urbanites in St. Petersburg tend to say yes. Other people often say no.
The woman working the counter is about 65. I told her, we’re shelling Kyiv, I’m devastated. She didn’t believe me. I showed her videos posted online; she didn’t believe them. That doesn’t look like Kyiv. Where are the domed churches? I pulled up CNN, BBC, but she didn’t believe in those either. If that’s all true, she reasoned, then why aren’t “our” media saying anything? I’ll believe it when I hear it from Moscow.
I had a few errands to run just outside city limits, and so I took the chance to ask people there, people working the counter in diners and gas-stations, acquaintances of mine and people I’d never met. And almost all of them had no idea. A woman in her 20s with dyed purple hair, smoking outside the diner where she works, told me that yes, she thinks that it’s entirely possible Russia is shelling Ukrainian cities. Her two colleagues inside, about the same age, said no, of course not.
An acquaintance of mine, a children’s music teacher who’s 55, had a good answer. I asked her whether we’re shelling Kyiv, and she said no… because what’s the point of just shelling one city? Ok, I said to her, what if I told you that we’re also shelling several others: Kharkiv, Kherson, Odessa? No, she said—that’s completely irrational. They’ll just send in a special-ops force. They’ll send the Chechens.
But most people, even those who have a sense that something’s not right, do not understand the severity of the situation. Another friend called yesterday, an artist and preschool teacher. She’s a very nice person in her mid-60s. She thinks that the war is terrible, of course, just awful. But really? Are they bombing Kyiv already? That’s awful. But anyway, she said, she was calling to ask me whether I wanted to go to the ceramics workshop like I’d promised.
To stop a war you need half the city to come out on the streets at once. You need hundreds of thousands of people. A thousand people—even two, three, five thousand—does not change anything. And half the city will not come out: They don’t even realize that we’re shelling Ukrainian cities.
Putin, meanwhile, has placed the country’s nuclear forces on high alert.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:01:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856201
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Most people without personal international contacts don’t know what their army is doing. It’s not that they support the war—they don’t even know about it.
Officially, Russia is not at war. It is engaged in a “special military operation” intended to compel peace and “cleanse Ukraine of Nazis.” The Ministry of Defense insists that “the military is not striking residential buildings in Ukrainian cities.” And most people who get their news from Russian sources, as well as those who don’t care very much about the news at all, tend to believe this is true. They know that something’s going on in Ukraine, but they don’t think it’s that big of a deal. They’ve heard about sanctions, but don’t have a good sense of why they’ve been implemented—something about the West trying to crash our economy again, doubtlessly in cahoots with our oligarchs.
One reason people think this way is that Russian media is forbidden to report on the war except by repeating the official state line; they are forbidden to call it a war, an attack, or an invasion. Another reason is that, after years of fake-news scares and internet trolling, people tend not to believe the social media channels and Western media sources that could have served as an alternate news source.
I’ve asked many people from many different walks of life whether they think that we’re shelling Kyiv. Educated urbanites in St. Petersburg tend to say yes. Other people often say no.
The woman working the counter is about 65. I told her, we’re shelling Kyiv, I’m devastated. She didn’t believe me. I showed her videos posted online; she didn’t believe them. That doesn’t look like Kyiv. Where are the domed churches? I pulled up CNN, BBC, but she didn’t believe in those either. If that’s all true, she reasoned, then why aren’t “our” media saying anything? I’ll believe it when I hear it from Moscow.
I had a few errands to run just outside city limits, and so I took the chance to ask people there, people working the counter in diners and gas-stations, acquaintances of mine and people I’d never met. And almost all of them had no idea. A woman in her 20s with dyed purple hair, smoking outside the diner where she works, told me that yes, she thinks that it’s entirely possible Russia is shelling Ukrainian cities. Her two colleagues inside, about the same age, said no, of course not.
An acquaintance of mine, a children’s music teacher who’s 55, had a good answer. I asked her whether we’re shelling Kyiv, and she said no… because what’s the point of just shelling one city? Ok, I said to her, what if I told you that we’re also shelling several others: Kharkiv, Kherson, Odessa? No, she said—that’s completely irrational. They’ll just send in a special-ops force. They’ll send the Chechens.
But most people, even those who have a sense that something’s not right, do not understand the severity of the situation. Another friend called yesterday, an artist and preschool teacher. She’s a very nice person in her mid-60s. She thinks that the war is terrible, of course, just awful. But really? Are they bombing Kyiv already? That’s awful. But anyway, she said, she was calling to ask me whether I wanted to go to the ceramics workshop like I’d promised.
To stop a war you need half the city to come out on the streets at once. You need hundreds of thousands of people. A thousand people—even two, three, five thousand—does not change anything. And half the city will not come out: They don’t even realize that we’re shelling Ukrainian cities.
Putin, meanwhile, has placed the country’s nuclear forces on high alert.
Yes, Russian media propaganda is deceiving its own people.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:11:01
From: Michael V
ID: 1856204
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
SCIENCE said:
Most people without personal international contacts don’t know what their army is doing. It’s not that they support the war—they don’t even know about it.
Officially, Russia is not at war. It is engaged in a “special military operation” intended to compel peace and “cleanse Ukraine of Nazis.” The Ministry of Defense insists that “the military is not striking residential buildings in Ukrainian cities.” And most people who get their news from Russian sources, as well as those who don’t care very much about the news at all, tend to believe this is true. They know that something’s going on in Ukraine, but they don’t think it’s that big of a deal. They’ve heard about sanctions, but don’t have a good sense of why they’ve been implemented—something about the West trying to crash our economy again, doubtlessly in cahoots with our oligarchs.
One reason people think this way is that Russian media is forbidden to report on the war except by repeating the official state line; they are forbidden to call it a war, an attack, or an invasion. Another reason is that, after years of fake-news scares and internet trolling, people tend not to believe the social media channels and Western media sources that could have served as an alternate news source.
I’ve asked many people from many different walks of life whether they think that we’re shelling Kyiv. Educated urbanites in St. Petersburg tend to say yes. Other people often say no.
The woman working the counter is about 65. I told her, we’re shelling Kyiv, I’m devastated. She didn’t believe me. I showed her videos posted online; she didn’t believe them. That doesn’t look like Kyiv. Where are the domed churches? I pulled up CNN, BBC, but she didn’t believe in those either. If that’s all true, she reasoned, then why aren’t “our” media saying anything? I’ll believe it when I hear it from Moscow.
I had a few errands to run just outside city limits, and so I took the chance to ask people there, people working the counter in diners and gas-stations, acquaintances of mine and people I’d never met. And almost all of them had no idea. A woman in her 20s with dyed purple hair, smoking outside the diner where she works, told me that yes, she thinks that it’s entirely possible Russia is shelling Ukrainian cities. Her two colleagues inside, about the same age, said no, of course not.
An acquaintance of mine, a children’s music teacher who’s 55, had a good answer. I asked her whether we’re shelling Kyiv, and she said no… because what’s the point of just shelling one city? Ok, I said to her, what if I told you that we’re also shelling several others: Kharkiv, Kherson, Odessa? No, she said—that’s completely irrational. They’ll just send in a special-ops force. They’ll send the Chechens.
But most people, even those who have a sense that something’s not right, do not understand the severity of the situation. Another friend called yesterday, an artist and preschool teacher. She’s a very nice person in her mid-60s. She thinks that the war is terrible, of course, just awful. But really? Are they bombing Kyiv already? That’s awful. But anyway, she said, she was calling to ask me whether I wanted to go to the ceramics workshop like I’d promised.
To stop a war you need half the city to come out on the streets at once. You need hundreds of thousands of people. A thousand people—even two, three, five thousand—does not change anything. And half the city will not come out: They don’t even realize that we’re shelling Ukrainian cities.
Putin, meanwhile, has placed the country’s nuclear forces on high alert.
Yes, Russian media propaganda is deceiving its own people.
I’m quite sure there’s plenty of propaganda on the Ukrainian side, too.
“The first casualty of war is the truth.”
Date: 5/03/2022 07:12:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856206
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
SCIENCE said:
Most people without personal international contacts don’t know what their army is doing. It’s not that they support the war—they don’t even know about it.
Officially, Russia is not at war. It is engaged in a “special military operation” intended to compel peace and “cleanse Ukraine of Nazis.” The Ministry of Defense insists that “the military is not striking residential buildings in Ukrainian cities.” And most people who get their news from Russian sources, as well as those who don’t care very much about the news at all, tend to believe this is true. They know that something’s going on in Ukraine, but they don’t think it’s that big of a deal. They’ve heard about sanctions, but don’t have a good sense of why they’ve been implemented—something about the West trying to crash our economy again, doubtlessly in cahoots with our oligarchs.
One reason people think this way is that Russian media is forbidden to report on the war except by repeating the official state line; they are forbidden to call it a war, an attack, or an invasion. Another reason is that, after years of fake-news scares and internet trolling, people tend not to believe the social media channels and Western media sources that could have served as an alternate news source.
I’ve asked many people from many different walks of life whether they think that we’re shelling Kyiv. Educated urbanites in St. Petersburg tend to say yes. Other people often say no.
The woman working the counter is about 65. I told her, we’re shelling Kyiv, I’m devastated. She didn’t believe me. I showed her videos posted online; she didn’t believe them. That doesn’t look like Kyiv. Where are the domed churches? I pulled up CNN, BBC, but she didn’t believe in those either. If that’s all true, she reasoned, then why aren’t “our” media saying anything? I’ll believe it when I hear it from Moscow.
I had a few errands to run just outside city limits, and so I took the chance to ask people there, people working the counter in diners and gas-stations, acquaintances of mine and people I’d never met. And almost all of them had no idea. A woman in her 20s with dyed purple hair, smoking outside the diner where she works, told me that yes, she thinks that it’s entirely possible Russia is shelling Ukrainian cities. Her two colleagues inside, about the same age, said no, of course not.
An acquaintance of mine, a children’s music teacher who’s 55, had a good answer. I asked her whether we’re shelling Kyiv, and she said no… because what’s the point of just shelling one city? Ok, I said to her, what if I told you that we’re also shelling several others: Kharkiv, Kherson, Odessa? No, she said—that’s completely irrational. They’ll just send in a special-ops force. They’ll send the Chechens.
But most people, even those who have a sense that something’s not right, do not understand the severity of the situation. Another friend called yesterday, an artist and preschool teacher. She’s a very nice person in her mid-60s. She thinks that the war is terrible, of course, just awful. But really? Are they bombing Kyiv already? That’s awful. But anyway, she said, she was calling to ask me whether I wanted to go to the ceramics workshop like I’d promised.
To stop a war you need half the city to come out on the streets at once. You need hundreds of thousands of people. A thousand people—even two, three, five thousand—does not change anything. And half the city will not come out: They don’t even realize that we’re shelling Ukrainian cities.
Putin, meanwhile, has placed the country’s nuclear forces on high alert.
Yes, Russian media propaganda is deceiving its own people.
I’m quite sure there’s plenty of propaganda on the Ukrainian side, too.
“The first casualty of war is the truth.”
On the contrary, it’s very important for the Ukrainians to get the truth out there.
“They’re both as bad as each other” is an extremely inaccurate attitude to take in regard to this conflict.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:20:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856210
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>people tend not to believe the social media channels and Western media sources that could have served as an alternate news source.
The great majority of them have no understanding of any language except Russian, so most of the world’s news sources are “censored” by default.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:25:52
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1856214
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Why pay for your propaganda when u can get it for free…
https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
Date: 5/03/2022 07:28:40
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1856215
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 5/03/2022 07:29:04
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1856216
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
>people tend not to believe the social media channels and Western media sources that could have served as an alternate news source.
The great majority of them have no understanding of any language except Russian, so most of the world’s news sources are “censored” by default.
global media could add russian subtitles to get around this
Date: 5/03/2022 07:29:49
From: Michael V
ID: 1856217
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Yes, Russian media propaganda is deceiving its own people.
I’m quite sure there’s plenty of propaganda on the Ukrainian side, too.
“The first casualty of war is the truth.”
On the contrary, it’s very important for the Ukrainians to get the truth out there.
“They’re both as bad as each other” is an extremely inaccurate attitude to take in regard to this conflict.
I did not say that.
And I didn’t imply it either. Or at least I didn’t intend for anybody to take my words that way.
And I am very annoyed that that’s what’s been attributed to me.
Putin is a vicious manipulating imperialist kleptocrat who has invaded a neighbouring country in order to expand his empire. And threatened nuclear war on any country that intervenes to help Ukraine. This is all quite inexcusable, as are any civilian deaths, any destruction and any war crimes.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:36:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856224
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
I’m quite sure there’s plenty of propaganda on the Ukrainian side, too.
“The first casualty of war is the truth.”
On the contrary, it’s very important for the Ukrainians to get the truth out there.
“They’re both as bad as each other” is an extremely inaccurate attitude to take in regard to this conflict.
I did not say that.
And I didn’t imply it either. Or at least I didn’t intend for anybody to take my words that way.
And I am very annoyed that that’s what’s been attributed to me.
Putin is a vicious manipulating imperialist kleptocrat who has invaded a neighbouring country in order to expand his empire. And threatened nuclear war on any country that intervenes to help Ukraine. This is all quite inexcusable, as are any civilian deaths, any destruction and any war crimes.
I understand, Michael.
There will be some exaggerations on the Ukrainian side (for example, number of Russian forces destroyed) for morale-boosting purposes, but essentially their media will be concentrating on getting the true picture out there, to counter Russian lies and make everyone aware of the atrocity taking place.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:38:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856226
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
I’m quite sure there’s plenty of propaganda on the Ukrainian side, too.
“The first casualty of war is the truth.”
On the contrary, it’s very important for the Ukrainians to get the truth out there.
“They’re both as bad as each other” is an extremely inaccurate attitude to take in regard to this conflict.
I did not say that.
And I didn’t imply it either. Or at least I didn’t intend for anybody to take my words that way.
And I am very annoyed that that’s what’s been attributed to me.
Putin is a vicious manipulating imperialist kleptocrat who has invaded a neighbouring country in order to expand his empire. And threatened nuclear war on any country that intervenes to help Ukraine. This is all quite inexcusable, as are any civilian deaths, any destruction and any war crimes.
Well emotions do run high when lives are threatened.
There’s propaganda in pretty much all quarters even at the best of times.
It’s entirely possible that Ukraine propaganda contains falsehoods even at the same time that it’s very important for the Ukrainians to get the truth out there.
The fact that everyone lies does not mean everyone is as bad as each other, so we agree it is extremely inaccurate to characterise it as the same thing.
Indeed, as SCIENCE we argue that whether Russian, Ukrainian, anythingian, it’s very important to get the truth out there.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:42:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856228
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
On the contrary, it’s very important for the Ukrainians to get the truth out there.
“They’re both as bad as each other” is an extremely inaccurate attitude to take in regard to this conflict.
I did not say that.
And I didn’t imply it either. Or at least I didn’t intend for anybody to take my words that way.
And I am very annoyed that that’s what’s been attributed to me.
Putin is a vicious manipulating imperialist kleptocrat who has invaded a neighbouring country in order to expand his empire. And threatened nuclear war on any country that intervenes to help Ukraine. This is all quite inexcusable, as are any civilian deaths, any destruction and any war crimes.
I understand, Michael.
There will be some exaggerations on the Ukrainian side (for example, number of Russian forces destroyed) for morale-boosting purposes, but essentially their media will be concentrating on getting the true picture out there, to counter Russian lies and make everyone aware of the atrocity taking place.
Consider also the distortions that external media introduce, and that true picture may not be what the rest of the world gets.
Does the additional media bullshit help Ukrainians¿ Not if the external media distortions decrease trust in Ukrainian reporting.
Date: 5/03/2022 07:50:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Russia amassed its forces in Belarus, including the ones that may be taking part in the offensive against Ukraine, after moving them from the country’s eastern regions — border regions with China,” he said. “That could only happen if China would provide additional security guarantees that Russia will not be attacked from that part of the world. So that’s China’s indirect military support for the situation in Ukraine.”
—
fucking Swiss enablers, kill them, kill them
Date: 5/03/2022 10:58:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856305
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
this innocent trip to the local supermarket is captioned

Russian soldiers taking supplies from a store in Kherson yesterday. 6:21 AM · Mar 3, 2022
Date: 5/03/2022 11:04:07
From: buffy
ID: 1856307
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
this innocent trip to the local supermarket is captioned

Russian soldiers taking supplies from a store in Kherson yesterday. 6:21 AM · Mar 3, 2022
Somebody instigated a “just in time” system for supplying the troops, did they?
Date: 5/03/2022 11:14:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856315
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
this innocent trip to the local supermarket is captioned

Russian soldiers taking supplies from a store in Kherson yesterday. 6:21 AM · Mar 3, 2022
I hope that they were wearing masks when they were in the supermarket.
It may be a war, but there’s still such a thing as social responsibility.
Date: 5/03/2022 11:16:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856317
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
this innocent trip to the local supermarket is captioned

Russian soldiers taking supplies from a store in Kherson yesterday. 6:21 AM · Mar 3, 2022
I hope that they were wearing masks when they were in the supermarket.
It may be a war, but there’s still such a thing as social responsibility.
we think they may have attended at antivax-hour
Date: 5/03/2022 11:56:22
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856372
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelenskiy says Nato has given “green light for further bombing of Ukraine” by ruling out no-fly zone
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has critisized Nato for refusing to implement a no-fly zone over Ukraine, saying the decision has given “the green light for further bombing of Ukrainian towns and villages”.
“All the people who die from this day forward will also die because of you, because of your weakness, because of your lack of unity,” the Ukrainian president said in an emotional nighttime address.
Nato warned on Friday that imposing a no-fly zone could provoke full-fledged war in Europe with nuclear-armed Russia. “The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send Nato fighter planes into Ukraine’s airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Jens Stoltenberg, the Nato chief, said. “If we did that, we’ll end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe, involving many more countries and causing much more human suffering.”
Zelenskiy said Nato countries have created a narrative that a no-fly zone would provoke Russia’s aggression against Nato. “This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than we have,” he said.
He also praised Ukrainians for their resistance against Russia’s invasion: “We are warriors of light,” he said. “The history of Europe will remember this forever.”
Date: 5/03/2022 12:00:37
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856373
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A Sky News crew has been evacuated back to the UK from Ukraine after journalists were shot during an ambush by a suspected Russian “death squad”.
The team of five were attacked while out in a car, after unsuccessfully trying to visit the town of Bucha near Kyiv.
Chief correspondent with Sky News, Stuart Ramsay, along with camera operator Richie Mockler were shot – Ramsay in the lower back while Mockler took two rounds in his body armour.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:00:50
From: party_pants
ID: 1856374
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy says Nato has given “green light for further bombing of Ukraine” by ruling out no-fly zone
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has critisized Nato for refusing to implement a no-fly zone over Ukraine, saying the decision has given “the green light for further bombing of Ukrainian towns and villages”.
“All the people who die from this day forward will also die because of you, because of your weakness, because of your lack of unity,” the Ukrainian president said in an emotional nighttime address.
Nato warned on Friday that imposing a no-fly zone could provoke full-fledged war in Europe with nuclear-armed Russia. “The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send Nato fighter planes into Ukraine’s airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Jens Stoltenberg, the Nato chief, said. “If we did that, we’ll end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe, involving many more countries and causing much more human suffering.”
Zelenskiy said Nato countries have created a narrative that a no-fly zone would provoke Russia’s aggression against Nato. “This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than we have,” he said.
He also praised Ukrainians for their resistance against Russia’s invasion: “We are warriors of light,” he said. “The history of Europe will remember this forever.”
I think that NATO have got a point.
But countries could unilaterally contribute aircraft to help Ukraine, they don’t have to be part of any formal NATO-led group.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:04:24
From: party_pants
ID: 1856375
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Even if they contributed some drones to make life difficult for the columns of Russian tanks and trucks moving along the road network. Stop the Russians from being out in the open. Those long columns of stationary vehicles should be an easy target.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:04:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856376
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy says Nato has given “green light for further bombing of Ukraine” by ruling out no-fly zone
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has critisized Nato for refusing to implement a no-fly zone over Ukraine, saying the decision has given “the green light for further bombing of Ukrainian towns and villages”.
“All the people who die from this day forward will also die because of you, because of your weakness, because of your lack of unity,” the Ukrainian president said in an emotional nighttime address.
Nato warned on Friday that imposing a no-fly zone could provoke full-fledged war in Europe with nuclear-armed Russia. “The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send Nato fighter planes into Ukraine’s airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Jens Stoltenberg, the Nato chief, said. “If we did that, we’ll end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe, involving many more countries and causing much more human suffering.”
Zelenskiy said Nato countries have created a narrative that a no-fly zone would provoke Russia’s aggression against Nato. “This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than we have,” he said.
He also praised Ukrainians for their resistance against Russia’s invasion: “We are warriors of light,” he said. “The history of Europe will remember this forever.”
I think that NATO have got a point.
But countries could unilaterally contribute aircraft to help Ukraine, they don’t have to be part of any formal NATO-led group.
Brtish pilots went to fly in Spain’s war.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:05:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856377
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Even if they contributed some drones to make life difficult for the columns of Russian tanks and trucks moving along the road network. Stop the Russians from being out in the open. Those long columns of stationary vehicles should be an easy target.
It is all a bit too late. Should have been in place before Putin’s teenagers arrived.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:06:00
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856378
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy says Nato has given “green light for further bombing of Ukraine” by ruling out no-fly zone
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has critisized Nato for refusing to implement a no-fly zone over Ukraine, saying the decision has given “the green light for further bombing of Ukrainian towns and villages”.
“All the people who die from this day forward will also die because of you, because of your weakness, because of your lack of unity,” the Ukrainian president said in an emotional nighttime address.
Nato warned on Friday that imposing a no-fly zone could provoke full-fledged war in Europe with nuclear-armed Russia. “The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send Nato fighter planes into Ukraine’s airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Jens Stoltenberg, the Nato chief, said. “If we did that, we’ll end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe, involving many more countries and causing much more human suffering.”
Zelenskiy said Nato countries have created a narrative that a no-fly zone would provoke Russia’s aggression against Nato. “This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than we have,” he said.
He also praised Ukrainians for their resistance against Russia’s invasion: “We are warriors of light,” he said. “The history of Europe will remember this forever.”
I think that NATO have got a point.
But countries could unilaterally contribute aircraft to help Ukraine, they don’t have to be part of any formal NATO-led group.
I suspect Putin thinks he’s been very clever by pretending to have “gone crazy”, thereby spooking the Western powers into inaction, while actually remaining the same calm, dead-eyed psychopath he always has been.
“They think I’ve gone nuts so I can literally get away with stuff only a maniac would do”, sums up his strategy.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:06:46
From: dv
ID: 1856379
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy says Nato has given “green light for further bombing of Ukraine” by ruling out no-fly zone
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has critisized Nato for refusing to implement a no-fly zone over Ukraine, saying the decision has given “the green light for further bombing of Ukrainian towns and villages”.
“All the people who die from this day forward will also die because of you, because of your weakness, because of your lack of unity,” the Ukrainian president said in an emotional nighttime address.
Nato warned on Friday that imposing a no-fly zone could provoke full-fledged war in Europe with nuclear-armed Russia. “The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send Nato fighter planes into Ukraine’s airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Jens Stoltenberg, the Nato chief, said. “If we did that, we’ll end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe, involving many more countries and causing much more human suffering.”
Zelenskiy said Nato countries have created a narrative that a no-fly zone would provoke Russia’s aggression against Nato. “This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than we have,” he said.
He also praised Ukrainians for their resistance against Russia’s invasion: “We are warriors of light,” he said. “The history of Europe will remember this forever.”
I think that NATO have got a point.
But countries could unilaterally contribute aircraft to help Ukraine, they don’t have to be part of any formal NATO-led group.
They’ve given them thousands of anti-aircraft missile launchers now … I hope they are advising them on how to use them.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:08:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856381
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Even if they contributed some drones to make life difficult for the columns of Russian tanks and trucks moving along the road network. Stop the Russians from being out in the open. Those long columns of stationary vehicles should be an easy target.
Drones have limited firepower and aren’t the best weapons for very long columns like that.
Ground attack planes with plenty of cluster bombs and missiles are better.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:09:40
From: Tamb
ID: 1856382
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy says Nato has given “green light for further bombing of Ukraine” by ruling out no-fly zone
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has critisized Nato for refusing to implement a no-fly zone over Ukraine, saying the decision has given “the green light for further bombing of Ukrainian towns and villages”.
“All the people who die from this day forward will also die because of you, because of your weakness, because of your lack of unity,” the Ukrainian president said in an emotional nighttime address.
Nato warned on Friday that imposing a no-fly zone could provoke full-fledged war in Europe with nuclear-armed Russia. “The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send Nato fighter planes into Ukraine’s airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Jens Stoltenberg, the Nato chief, said. “If we did that, we’ll end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe, involving many more countries and causing much more human suffering.”
Zelenskiy said Nato countries have created a narrative that a no-fly zone would provoke Russia’s aggression against Nato. “This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than we have,” he said.
He also praised Ukrainians for their resistance against Russia’s invasion: “We are warriors of light,” he said. “The history of Europe will remember this forever.”
I think that NATO have got a point.
But countries could unilaterally contribute aircraft to help Ukraine, they don’t have to be part of any formal NATO-led group.
Brtish pilots went to fly in Spain’s war.
So did Germans.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:11:20
From: Michael V
ID: 1856383
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Even if they contributed some drones to make life difficult for the columns of Russian tanks and trucks moving along the road network. Stop the Russians from being out in the open. Those long columns of stationary vehicles should be an easy target.
And you don’t have to destroy every one. A few here and there to block the road would be sufficient, it seems. I gather that off the side of these roads is an impassable bog.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:13:58
From: dv
ID: 1856385
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It’s been reported by US Officials that the Ukrainians have done significant damage to that convoy.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:20:25
From: party_pants
ID: 1856389
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
Even if they contributed some drones to make life difficult for the columns of Russian tanks and trucks moving along the road network. Stop the Russians from being out in the open. Those long columns of stationary vehicles should be an easy target.
Drones have limited firepower and aren’t the best weapons for very long columns like that.
Ground attack planes with plenty of cluster bombs and missiles are better.
Yes I know. But in the absence of any country sending over manned aircraft, unmanned drones could make a difference.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:20:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856390
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
It’s been reported by US Officials that the Ukrainians have done significant damage to that convoy.
You’d think so. Small groups of troops attacking at night could put some of those many hand-held anti-tank weapons to good use, while taking along some stingers to guard against night-vision air attack.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:22:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856391
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
It’s been reported by US Officials that the Ukrainians have done significant damage to that convoy.
You’d think so. Small groups of troops attacking at night could put some of those many hand-held anti-tank weapons to good use, while taking along some stingers to guard against night-vision air attack.
Mind you I’m not a military man and have never played one on stage or screen.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:25:07
From: dv
ID: 1856392
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
It’s been reported by US Officials that the Ukrainians have done significant damage to that convoy.
You’d think so. Small groups of troops attacking at night could put some of those many hand-held anti-tank weapons to good use, while taking along some stingers to guard against night-vision air attack.
Mind you I’m not a military man and have never played one on stage or screen.
Well now, even though Costanzo was a chaplain, he also had the military rank of captain.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:29:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856393
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
You’d think so. Small groups of troops attacking at night could put some of those many hand-held anti-tank weapons to good use, while taking along some stingers to guard against night-vision air attack.
Mind you I’m not a military man and have never played one on stage or screen.
Well now, even though Costanzo was a chaplain, he also had the military rank of captain.
If we ever eventually meet, you’ll be shocked at how little I resemble Edward Mulhare.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:38:20
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856399
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 5/03/2022 12:39:45
From: Woodie
ID: 1856400
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Yes I know. But in the absence of any country sending over manned aircraft, unmanned drones could make a difference.
WHS issues with this one Mr Panty Parts.
You’d need a Cert IV in Unmanned Dronery before being allowed to operate one of those things in the workplace.
You know, they’d have to set up all the courses, locations, Trainers and learning material before being allowed anywhere near them.
A HR logistical nightmare considering the local conditions they’d have to deal with.
Date: 5/03/2022 12:45:07
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1856404
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Looks like a good idea.
www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/04/booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine/
one of our old forummers bought 3 days accommodation for a refugee in Poland and got a lovely message from the recipient.
Date: 5/03/2022 13:00:36
From: Michael V
ID: 1856411
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Spiny Norman said:
Looks like a good idea.
www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/04/booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine/
one of our old forummers bought 3 days accommodation for a refugee in Poland and got a lovely message from the recipient.
What great, simple ways to support those caught up in this terrifying ordeal.
:)
Totally approve.
Date: 5/03/2022 13:49:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856427
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian Folk Song ARMY REMIX | Andriy Khlyvnyuk x The Kiffness
Singer Andriy Khlyvnyuk who’s joined the defence sings an a capella Ukrainian folk song, joined here by The Kiffness in an impressive after-mix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu8m5FA2nL8&t=71s
Date: 5/03/2022 14:31:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856458
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Old fellow singing a Cossack song in the street, Kyiv, few years ago. Accompanying himself with bandura.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKLQiWlXaRo
Date: 5/03/2022 14:45:50
From: dv
ID: 1856467
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support Russian sanctions even if energy prices jump, poll finds
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010951/nearly-7-in-10-americans-support-russian-sanctions-even-if-energy
Americans are, for the most part, rallying behind economic sanctions on Russia as punishment for its globally-derided invasion of Ukraine, even if the measures ultimately cause higher energy prices back home, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Institute of Public Opinion poll.
Per the results, 83 percent of Americans are in favor of sanctions, with 69 percent — including 58 percent of Republicans — in support “even if it results in higher energy prices in the United States,” Marist writes. Inflation, and its subsequent effect on gas prices, has been a key issue confounding both Democrats and President Biden as of late.
Date: 5/03/2022 14:50:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856470
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support Russian sanctions even if energy prices jump, poll finds
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010951/nearly-7-in-10-americans-support-russian-sanctions-even-if-energy
Americans are, for the most part, rallying behind economic sanctions on Russia as punishment for its globally-derided invasion of Ukraine, even if the measures ultimately cause higher energy prices back home, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Institute of Public Opinion poll.
Per the results, 83 percent of Americans are in favor of sanctions, with 69 percent — including 58 percent of Republicans — in support “even if it results in higher energy prices in the United States,” Marist writes. Inflation, and its subsequent effect on gas prices, has been a key issue confounding both Democrats and President Biden as of late.
Putin Unifies North Americans More Successfully Than Any Other President In Living Memory
Date: 5/03/2022 14:55:59
From: dv
ID: 1856474
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support Russian sanctions even if energy prices jump, poll finds
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010951/nearly-7-in-10-americans-support-russian-sanctions-even-if-energy
Americans are, for the most part, rallying behind economic sanctions on Russia as punishment for its globally-derided invasion of Ukraine, even if the measures ultimately cause higher energy prices back home, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Institute of Public Opinion poll.
Per the results, 83 percent of Americans are in favor of sanctions, with 69 percent — including 58 percent of Republicans — in support “even if it results in higher energy prices in the United States,” Marist writes. Inflation, and its subsequent effect on gas prices, has been a key issue confounding both Democrats and President Biden as of late.
Putin Unifies North Americans More Successfully Than Any Other President In Living Memory
He should get a Nobel Prize
Date: 5/03/2022 15:02:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856481
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support Russian sanctions even if energy prices jump, poll finds
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010951/nearly-7-in-10-americans-support-russian-sanctions-even-if-energy
Americans are, for the most part, rallying behind economic sanctions on Russia as punishment for its globally-derided invasion of Ukraine, even if the measures ultimately cause higher energy prices back home, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Institute of Public Opinion poll.
Per the results, 83 percent of Americans are in favor of sanctions, with 69 percent — including 58 percent of Republicans — in support “even if it results in higher energy prices in the United States,” Marist writes. Inflation, and its subsequent effect on gas prices, has been a key issue confounding both Democrats and President Biden as of late.
Putin Unifies North Americans More Successfully Than Any Other President In Living Memory
He should get a Nobel Prize
but so many to choose from, between the literacy campaign, the creative use of organophosphorus chemicals and radioisotopes, the remarkably constant COVID-19 controlled case counts, the special peacekeeping operation, the securing of nuclear waste facilities, the solving of low interest and inflation rates worldwide
He could get all 6 ¡
Yes we know economics isn’t, strictly…
Date: 5/03/2022 15:03:54
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856486
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Nearly 7 in 10 Americans support Russian sanctions even if energy prices jump, poll finds
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010951/nearly-7-in-10-americans-support-russian-sanctions-even-if-energy
Americans are, for the most part, rallying behind economic sanctions on Russia as punishment for its globally-derided invasion of Ukraine, even if the measures ultimately cause higher energy prices back home, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Institute of Public Opinion poll.
Per the results, 83 percent of Americans are in favor of sanctions, with 69 percent — including 58 percent of Republicans — in support “even if it results in higher energy prices in the United States,” Marist writes. Inflation, and its subsequent effect on gas prices, has been a key issue confounding both Democrats and President Biden as of late.
Putin Unifies North Americans More Successfully Than Any Other President In Living Memory
Putin Unifies North Americans
Putin changes Sweden from being neutral to bring in sanctions and seizing assets.
Putin changes Germany from being pacifists and mobilizes their military machine
Go Putin.
Date: 5/03/2022 15:11:35
From: Kingy
ID: 1856497
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speaking of Putin..
When exactly are the Ides of March?
Date: 5/03/2022 15:13:06
From: Tamb
ID: 1856498
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Speaking of Putin..
When exactly are the Ides of March?
The Ides of March is the 74th day in the Roman calendar, corresponding to 15 March. It was marked by several religious observances and was notable for the Romans as a deadline for settling debts.
Date: 5/03/2022 15:20:57
From: Kingy
ID: 1856502
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Wacky World War Wednesday’s! Get 2 medium 2 topping pizzas and well donate our thoughts and prayers to Ukraine! Only at Domino’s®
Date: 5/03/2022 15:32:24
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856509
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Singapore becomes the first Southeast Asian country to impose sanctions:
Singapore has outlined details of the financial measures it will impose on Russia, after it announced on Monday that it would take the rare step of imposing sanctions.
In a statement the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said:
We will impose financial measures targeted at designated Russian banks, entities and activities in Russia, and fund-raising activities benefiting the Russian government. Digital payment token service providers are specifically prohibited from facilitating transactions that could help to circumvent these financial measures. These measures apply to all financial institutions in Singapore, including banks, finance companies, insurers, capital markets intermediaries, securities exchanges and payment service providers.
The statement describe Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as “a gross violation of international law”. It is the first country in Southeast Asia to impose sanctions.
Full details of the measures are on the ministry website.
Date: 5/03/2022 15:57:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856514
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Kingy said:
Speaking of Putin..
When exactly are the Ides of March?
The Ides of March is the 74th day in the Roman calendar, corresponding to 15 March. It was marked by several religious observances and was notable for the Romans as a deadline for settling debts.
My mother’s birthday
Date: 5/03/2022 16:06:29
From: Michael V
ID: 1856518
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Singapore becomes the first Southeast Asian country to impose sanctions:
Singapore has outlined details of the financial measures it will impose on Russia, after it announced on Monday that it would take the rare step of imposing sanctions.
In a statement the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said:
We will impose financial measures targeted at designated Russian banks, entities and activities in Russia, and fund-raising activities benefiting the Russian government. Digital payment token service providers are specifically prohibited from facilitating transactions that could help to circumvent these financial measures. These measures apply to all financial institutions in Singapore, including banks, finance companies, insurers, capital markets intermediaries, securities exchanges and payment service providers.
The statement describe Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as “a gross violation of international law”. It is the first country in Southeast Asia to impose sanctions.
Full details of the measures are on the ministry website.
Fantastic.
Date: 5/03/2022 16:15:16
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856523
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Tamb said:
Kingy said:
Speaking of Putin..
When exactly are the Ides of March?
The Ides of March is the 74th day in the Roman calendar, corresponding to 15 March. It was marked by several religious observances and was notable for the Romans as a deadline for settling debts.
My mother’s birthday
so it’ll be Ukraine March On Москва day
Date: 5/03/2022 16:26:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856526
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:

Wacky World War Wednesday’s! Get 2 medium 2 topping pizzas and well donate our thoughts and prayers to Ukraine! Only at Domino’s®
think how much worse it could be without capitalism
or the toppings you could be topped by
Supreme Leader
Meatgrinders
Flamethrower
…
Date: 5/03/2022 16:56:50
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856530
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 5/03/2022 17:04:22
From: Woodie
ID: 1856534
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
tips hat
YAY for Mr Meister. 😎
Come on lad, give us the lowdown on the current Ukraine/Russia situation from a Wookienomics perspective.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:04:42
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856535
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
wookiemeister said:
tips hat
YAY for Mr Meister. 😎
Come on lad, give us the lowdown on the current Ukraine/Russia situation from a Wookienomics perspective.
russia is going to win
Date: 5/03/2022 17:10:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856538
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Woodie said:
wookiemeister said:
tips hat
YAY for Mr Meister. 😎
Come on lad, give us the lowdown on the current Ukraine/Russia situation from a Wookienomics perspective.
russia is going to win
Well, i have to agree with wookie on this one.
If the Russians just sit tight until the warmer and drier weather arrives, and use the time to get additional forces organised ( and a proper supply system in place), then it’s fairly much inevitable that they’ll just steamroller Ukraine.
It’s just numbers. If Putin is prepared to feed enough men and machines into the battle, they’ll win. They have the numbers to do it. The Ukrainians will run out of missiles, bullets, and soldiers before the Russians do.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:17:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856542
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
imperial russia
founder: rurik 862AD
russia is rulled by various elites and engages on wars of conquest or defence. notably fights off napoleon doing mortal damage to his grand armee
the soviet union (imperial russia disappears)
founder: lenin 1917 – 1991
the soviet union engages on wars of conquest, fights imperial germany and sues for peace to consolidate power across the USSR
fights nazi germany, does mortal damage to the wermacht, drives all the way west and turns berlin to matchsticks
the chaotic period 1991 – 1999
the rise of the oligarch and mafia
New Russia – the restoration 1999 – present
founder : Putin
rearms New Russia, pushes back on NATO
Date: 5/03/2022 17:22:42
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856543
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
wookiemeister said:
Woodie said:
YAY for Mr Meister. 😎
Come on lad, give us the lowdown on the current Ukraine/Russia situation from a Wookienomics perspective.
russia is going to win
Well, i have to agree with wookie on this one.
If the Russians just sit tight until the warmer and drier weather arrives, and use the time to get additional forces organised ( and a proper supply system in place), then it’s fairly much inevitable that they’ll just steamroller Ukraine.
It’s just numbers. If Putin is prepared to feed enough men and machines into the battle, they’ll win. They have the numbers to do it. The Ukrainians will run out of missiles, bullets, and soldiers before the Russians do.
nice to see scotty pumping 70 million in weapons into the conflict
the ukrainians were led up the garden path thinking that threatening russia every 5 minutes was a good idea. they openly opined that getting nukes was a priority and they would use them on russia. russia took back crimea and the eastern states (ukraine was effectively created by the soviet union. )
Date: 5/03/2022 17:27:37
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856544
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
captain_spalding said:
wookiemeister said:
russia is going to win
Well, i have to agree with wookie on this one.
If the Russians just sit tight until the warmer and drier weather arrives, and use the time to get additional forces organised ( and a proper supply system in place), then it’s fairly much inevitable that they’ll just steamroller Ukraine.
It’s just numbers. If Putin is prepared to feed enough men and machines into the battle, they’ll win. They have the numbers to do it. The Ukrainians will run out of missiles, bullets, and soldiers before the Russians do.
nice to see scotty pumping 70 million in weapons into the conflict
the ukrainians were led up the garden path thinking that threatening russia every 5 minutes was a good idea. they openly opined that getting nukes was a priority and they would use them on russia. russia took back crimea and the eastern states (ukraine was effectively created by the soviet union. )
How has Ukraine threatened Russia? Using nukes against Russia is the sort of bullshit Moll comes up with.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:28:32
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856545
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
captain_spalding said:
Well, i have to agree with wookie on this one.
If the Russians just sit tight until the warmer and drier weather arrives, and use the time to get additional forces organised ( and a proper supply system in place), then it’s fairly much inevitable that they’ll just steamroller Ukraine.
It’s just numbers. If Putin is prepared to feed enough men and machines into the battle, they’ll win. They have the numbers to do it. The Ukrainians will run out of missiles, bullets, and soldiers before the Russians do.
nice to see scotty pumping 70 million in weapons into the conflict
the ukrainians were led up the garden path thinking that threatening russia every 5 minutes was a good idea. they openly opined that getting nukes was a priority and they would use them on russia. russia took back crimea and the eastern states (ukraine was effectively created by the soviet union. )
How has Ukraine threatened Russia? Using nukes against Russia is the sort of bullshit Moll comes up with.
use your eyes, ears and brain
it helps
Date: 5/03/2022 17:31:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856547
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
nice to see scotty pumping 70 million in weapons into the conflict
the ukrainians were led up the garden path thinking that threatening russia every 5 minutes was a good idea. they openly opined that getting nukes was a priority and they would use them on russia. russia took back crimea and the eastern states (ukraine was effectively created by the soviet union. )
How has Ukraine threatened Russia? Using nukes against Russia is the sort of bullshit Moll comes up with.
use your eyes, ears and brain
it helps
Hah. I suppose you’ve gleaned all this from RT?
Date: 5/03/2022 17:34:39
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856551
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
never mind , i’m sure it will be fine one way or the other.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:37:45
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856555
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
FWIW this video camera – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0nwFg20CvU is located right here.

Though it’s near the southern end of the Crimea, probably not going to see much action from it.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:38:10
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856556
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
never mind , i’m sure it will be fine one way or the other.
Well that’s a relief.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:39:12
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856557
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The camera feed on the bottom-right of this YT channel is interesting, as I type this there’s a bunch of people in groups. Not sure what for nor why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc3s-FES2XY
Date: 5/03/2022 17:41:45
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856558
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
maybe they will take the eastern part of ukraine then just turn the western part on the other side of the river into a live fire zone?
Date: 5/03/2022 17:48:33
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856561
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
whatever happens this conflict will need to be taken quickly ie in the next few months before sanctions bite. money can be saved by the russians simply pulling the plug on the ISS, jamming starlink , shutting off the power and turning off the gas to germany whilst its still cold. germany is sending weapons to ukraine (maybe the wermacht too -) just freeze germany and let expensive powerbills and inflation take their toll. the hundreds of thousands of refugees will all need to be fed, water and accommodated.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:48:41
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856562
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
maybe they will take the eastern part of ukraine then just turn the western part on the other side of the river into a live fire zone?
Well as Russia is the sole aggressor in this conflict and Putin has no qualms about killing ‘brothers’ on mass I suppose anything is possible.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:49:53
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856564
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
maybe they will take the eastern part of ukraine then just turn the western part on the other side of the river into a live fire zone?
Well as Russia is the sole aggressor in this conflict and Putin has no qualms about killing ‘brothers’ on mass I suppose anything is possible.
‘en masse
Date: 5/03/2022 17:50:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856565
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
maybe they will take the eastern part of ukraine then just turn the western part on the other side of the river into a live fire zone?
Well as Russia is the sole aggressor in this conflict and Putin has no qualms about killing ‘brothers’ on mass I suppose anything is possible.
germany could leave
NATO and could assemble a grand army and send their panzers back towards the east front. they use leopards now but they dont do so well against
KORNET.
Date: 5/03/2022 17:54:32
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856566
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
a german invasion of russia would probably be better off rolling through poland – its flat and they aren’t fighting the poles this time.
knocking out the russian oil supplies would be a priority – moscow is off the cards. russian strikes could be against various industrial areas. casualties? perhaps a few million once things really get cooking.
Date: 5/03/2022 18:00:07
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856569
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
maybe you’d see NATO being dissolved so a coalition of countries could fight russia openly and without going against any previous charter?
Date: 5/03/2022 18:14:04
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856575
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
a german invasion of russia would probably be better off rolling through poland – its flat and they aren’t fighting the poles this time.
knocking out the russian oil supplies would be a priority – moscow is off the cards. russian strikes could be against various industrial areas. casualties? perhaps a few million once things really get cooking.
You really seem to revel in this talk of warmongering. I prefer to hope that Putin declares a war and nobody came.
Date: 5/03/2022 18:18:17
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1856578
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
You really seem to revel in this talk of warmongering.
LOL, I was just thinking the same. You can tell because he goes click-happy.
Date: 5/03/2022 18:24:20
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856581
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
a german invasion of russia would probably be better off rolling through poland – its flat and they aren’t fighting the poles this time.
knocking out the russian oil supplies would be a priority – moscow is off the cards. russian strikes could be against various industrial areas. casualties? perhaps a few million once things really get cooking.
You really seem to revel in this talk of warmongering. I prefer to hope that Putin declares a war and nobody came.
nup, i’m a far horizon thinker
i started installing a large solar system on the roof last year in november with a BIG battery system early this year. the solar installation fellahs asked me why i wanted the battery system as as well – its unsual for the average joe to get one (12,000 extra) – simple i explained – the world is moving into a period of instability when the time comes all the money sense won’t help you when you are sitting in the dark. the other thing – australia is SHUTTING down its baseload generation, solar and wind won’t pick up that load, the electrical grid isn’t that reliable and is becoming less reliable (half the country was out just recently). we will be taking an extra 300,000 every year whilst making less baseload. power prices will become a major part of peoples bills (i’ll be fine). funny enough about a month after the solar component went in he told me the solar cells i bought just went up an extra 30 percent. a few weeks ago there was a black out in my area – i was the only house with lights on.
we don’t have a very good gov/ public service, things are getting worse all the time
Date: 5/03/2022 18:24:38
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856582
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
You really seem to revel in this talk of warmongering.
LOL, I was just thinking the same. You can tell because he goes click-happy.
doesn’t matter to me
i’ll be fine
Date: 5/03/2022 18:47:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856586
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
You really seem to revel in this talk of warmongering.
LOL, I was just thinking the same. You can tell because he goes click-happy.
well you know everyone wanted a solution to the population problem then CHINA tried to help with bat dementiavirus except it’s gone mild and isn’t killing anyone any more so we did need a good global conflict and famine and jump-start for disease to carry on
Date: 5/03/2022 20:46:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856649
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This is why they don’t like those stingers. Russian chopper gets stung, turns into a firework.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1500037338960965634
Date: 5/03/2022 21:01:12
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1856653
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
This is why they don’t like those stingers. Russian chopper gets stung, turns into a firework.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1500037338960965634
https://youtu.be/C0TIDaU2MsI
Russian War In Ukraine – Russian SU-25 Frogfoot Eats Anti-Air Missile • Keeps Flying
Date: 5/03/2022 21:01:49
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856654
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
This is why they don’t like those stingers. Russian chopper gets stung, turns into a firework.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1500037338960965634
Yeah choppers aren’t so good for dodging anti-aircraft missiles. They just can’t pile on 9+ G’s like a fighter jet can in the blink of an eye – The missiles can turn a lot harder than 9 G’s of course, but they are going a lot faster and a good pilot will use that to their advantage. I used to be a beta tester for a Sukhoi Su-27 simulation and one of the best ways to avoid a missile fired at you, if you had the time & distance to do it, was to ‘beam the missile’. That meant that you’d turn hard so that the missile was coming at the plane at about 90°. At the right distance you’d bank hard over and turn hard towards the incoming missile then hit the chaff & flare button a few times. Just yank the stick back into your stomach for a few seconds. You’d black-out from the huge G-forces, but if you got it right you’d wake up a couple of seconds later. If not, you wouldn’t wake up ever again.
The other tactic if you have enough time and distance so that the rocket in the missile had exhausted its propellant would be to just manoeuvre around to make the missile keep turning as that would quickly burn up its kinetic energy. Also climbing under full burner to get above the gliding missile would also cause it to lose a lot of energy and so be easier to avoid.
Great fun – As long as you’re sitting in front of a monitor. ;)
Date: 5/03/2022 21:02:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856656
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
This is why they don’t like those stingers. Russian chopper gets stung, turns into a firework.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1500037338960965634
Looks a lot like a Stinger smoke trail.
On the other hand, could one of those Strelas that were supposed to be getting donated to Ukraine.
Date: 5/03/2022 21:03:55
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856658
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
This is why they don’t like those stingers. Russian chopper gets stung, turns into a firework.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1500037338960965634
Looks a lot like a Stinger smoke trail.
On the other hand, could one of those Strelas that were supposed to be getting donated to Ukraine.
I’m surprised they leave such a thick smoke trail. If I were using such weapons I would very much prefer to NOT have a lovely smoke trail leading back to me.
Date: 5/03/2022 21:09:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856664
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
This is why they don’t like those stingers. Russian chopper gets stung, turns into a firework.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1500037338960965634
Looks a lot like a Stinger smoke trail.
On the other hand, could one of those Strelas that were supposed to be getting donated to Ukraine.
I’m surprised they leave such a thick smoke trail. If I were using such weapons I would very much prefer to NOT have a lovely smoke trail leading back to me.
you’ve heard of ‘fire-and-forget’ weapons?
These are FAFO weapons. Fire And F*** Off.
Date: 5/03/2022 21:12:41
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856668
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Looks a lot like a Stinger smoke trail.
On the other hand, could one of those Strelas that were supposed to be getting donated to Ukraine.
I’m surprised they leave such a thick smoke trail. If I were using such weapons I would very much prefer to NOT have a lovely smoke trail leading back to me.
you’ve heard of ‘fire-and-forget’ weapons?
These are FAFO weapons. Fire And F*** Off.
:)
Date: 5/03/2022 21:21:07
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1856679
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
This is why they don’t like those stingers. Russian chopper gets stung, turns into a firework.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1500037338960965634
Looks a lot like a Stinger smoke trail.
On the other hand, could one of those Strelas that were supposed to be getting donated to Ukraine.
I’m surprised they leave such a thick smoke trail. If I were using such weapons I would very much prefer to NOT have a lovely smoke trail leading back to me.
Didn’t even launch countermeasures- didn’t know it had been targeted or doesn’t have any?
Date: 5/03/2022 21:23:39
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856682
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Why a huge Russian convoy remains stalled north of Kyiv
Botched logistics and fierce resistance are causing problems. But the respite could be temporary
MAR 4TH 2022
Valery gerasimov, Russia’s enigmatic chief of general staff, once co-authored a short manual for his commanders, called “The principles of victory in combat”. Russian officers had become too predictable, he thought. Surprise is achieved by “striking the enemy at a time or place or in a manner for which the enemy is unprepared.” Yet it is hard to think of a less dynamic attack than the one approaching Kyiv from the north-west. A Russian military convoy, no less than 60km long, has been moving at snail’s pace towards the capital. It epitomises Russia’s plodding approach to the war so far.
The convoy stretches from Prybirsk, a town near Chernobyl, down to at least Antonov airport, the site of a Russian helicopter assault on the first day of the war. Its most recent location is hard to pin down, since the area has been cloudy in recent days. But on March 3rd British defence intelligence claimed, with some satisfaction, that the column had made “little discernible progress in over three days”. A day later an American defence official concurred, noting that it remained 25km from the centre of Kyiv.
Perhaps the most important reason for this is logistics. Russian fuel, engineering and other supply units have struggled to keep up with frontline forces, leaving vehicles stranded on the road. Video footage shows Ukrainian tractors gleefully towing away what are purported to be abandoned Russian air-defence systems and armoured vehicles.
In an article published on the War on the Rocks website in November, Alex Vershinin, an American army officer, noted that Russian units are far heavier on artillery and air-defences than their nato counterparts. This makes logistics tougher: a unit that fires 4,000 shells a day needs 50 trucks a day to replenish. Russia’s army would not have enough trucks to “meet its logistic requirement” more than 90 miles beyond supply dumps, he concluded.
Supplying a large invasion force in a huge country would stress any army. But Russia has further woes. “The Russians seemed to have fixed themselves to roads,” observes Mick Ryan, a retired major-general who led Australia’s defence college until recently. That, he says, has slowed them down. Mr Ryan points to the cautionary example of Operation Market Garden in 1944, the Allied effort to shorten the war by seizing crossings over the Rhine in the second world war. Britain’s xxx Corps made an arduous advance over a single narrow road, plagued by boggy ground on either side and German counter-attacks.
Russia’s repetition of that mistake may be a function of deeper military dysfunction. Trent Telenko, a former auditor for America’s Defence Contract Management Agency, has pointed to video footage of a Russian Pantsir-s1 air-defence system that was stuck in the mud and captured by Ukraine. Tires, he notes, need to be periodically moved to exercise the inflation system and to avoid exposing any one part to continuous sunlight.
That Russian forces have not done this basic maintenance may reflect endemic corruption. In 2019 Russian military prosecutors said that losses from corruption had spiralled and exceeded 7bn roubles (around $109m at the time). Neglected tires will fail to get through mud and must stick to paved paths. Images of the convoy show trucks crowded on the road, three abreast, preventing anything from passing. In some cases, Russian soldiers have even punched holes in their fuel tanks to avoid facing combat. Western officials say that the biggest problem is not that Ukraine has blown up key bridges, but that Russian bridging units have been unable to get through the congestion to build new ones.
Such a long and exposed convoy should be a juicy target for air strikes. Ukraine still has aircraft in the sky and its Turkish-made tb2 drones have struck Russian forces in other parts of the country. Yet Russia is likely to have deployed air-defence and electronic-warfare systems around the column, making it harder for Ukrainian aircraft to approach. Troops are another matter. The level of Ukrainian resistance has shocked Russian commanders. Just as German soldiers harassed the British column in Operation Market Garden, Ukrainians appear to be picking off elements of the Russian force.
There has been fierce fighting in Bucha and Gostomel, where the front of the convoy was estimated to be on March 1st, with images showing large quantities of destroyed Russian armour. On March 2nd Ukrainian forces claimed to have liberated the village of Makariv, to the south-west of the convoy. A day later they reportedly counter-attacked at Ivankiv, close to its northern end. American officials say that Ukrainian forces have used Javelin anti-tank missiles to destroy Russian tanks and block the road. At least three Russian commanders have been killed in different parts of the country after they ventured to the front, frustrated by their lack of progress.
Yet the fog of war remains thick. Russia may have chosen to slow down its movement in order to synchronise its various advances on Kyiv. Russian forces to the west of the Dnieper river have moved faster and farther than those to the east of it, which have been held up in fierce fighting. If the aim is to encircle Kyiv, in preparation for a siege, Russia might be waiting for its eastern thrust to catch up, suggests Mathieu Boulegue of Chatham House, a think-tank.
Progress in southern Ukraine has been quicker still, with Russian forces taking their first major city, Kherson, on March 2nd or 3rd and seizing the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, Europe’s largest, on March 4th. Zaporizhzhia is only 85km to the city of Dnipro, a key junction and crossing point on the Dnieper. Prior to the war, Ukraine’s best and most numerous forces were in the east of the country, facing the Donbas region, the site of a Russian-backed proxy war. Those forces are at risk of being cut off from the rest of the country.
Nor is congestion unknown in big wars. The German advance into France in May 1940 was described as “the largest traffic jam in European history”, by Rolf-Dieter Müller, a German historian. It resulted in a 250km-long logjam through the Ardennes that ended 80km east of the Rhine. The Germans, of course, got there in the end.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/04/why-a-huge-russian-convoy-remains-stalled-north-of-kyiv?
Date: 5/03/2022 21:24:28
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856683
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Looks a lot like a Stinger smoke trail.
On the other hand, could one of those Strelas that were supposed to be getting donated to Ukraine.
I’m surprised they leave such a thick smoke trail. If I were using such weapons I would very much prefer to NOT have a lovely smoke trail leading back to me.
Didn’t even launch countermeasures- didn’t know it had been targeted or doesn’t have any?
No idea sorry. I doubt they knew they were being targeted though.
Date: 5/03/2022 21:31:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856687
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Looks a lot like a Stinger smoke trail.
On the other hand, could one of those Strelas that were supposed to be getting donated to Ukraine.
I’m surprised they leave such a thick smoke trail. If I were using such weapons I would very much prefer to NOT have a lovely smoke trail leading back to me.
Didn’t even launch countermeasures- didn’t know it had been targeted or doesn’t have any?
No time for such reactions.
Date: 5/03/2022 21:46:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856696
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
anyway we in no way suggest that this is not war and in no way suggest that there was any immediately obvious better alternative at the time
but
there were probably people in that thing
Date: 5/03/2022 22:04:27
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1856709
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 5/03/2022 22:11:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856711
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:

sigh what a bunch of pricks Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
Date: 5/03/2022 22:16:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856712
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
sarahs mum said:

sigh what a bunch of pricks turkeys Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
Fixed.
Date: 5/03/2022 22:19:59
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1856715
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
sarahs mum said:

sigh what a bunch of pricks Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
I think you could look a good deal closer than Turkey for a country that did not welcome refugees arriving outside the prescribed system.
Date: 5/03/2022 22:24:41
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1856717
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
sarahs mum said:

sigh what a bunch of pricks Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
I think you could look a good deal closer than Turkey for a country that did not welcome refugees arriving outside the prescribed system.
*nods
Date: 5/03/2022 22:27:09
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1856719
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
sigh what a bunch of pricks Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
I think you could look a good deal closer than Turkey for a country that did not welcome refugees arriving outside the prescribed system.
*nods
I sent the meme to janina. She is still sore with the Ukraine because of what their citizens did to Polish people in WW2. She is still romantic about Russia because they sent her family on free holidays and gave them an apartment. She does hate Putin.
Date: 5/03/2022 22:27:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856720
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
sarahs mum said:

sigh what a bunch of pricks turkeys Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
Fixed.
we saw something a bit like Ukraine versus Russia a while back


Date: 5/03/2022 22:30:56
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856721
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
sigh what a bunch of pricks Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
I think you could look a good deal closer than Turkey for a country that did not welcome refugees arriving outside the prescribed system.
*nods
right but part of our objection was to the idea that Ukrainians would likely be far more welcome in such countries than Syrians would, and Australia haven’t taken in as many Ukrainians yet, so
Date: 5/03/2022 22:36:52
From: dv
ID: 1856722
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
sarahs mum said:

sigh what a bunch of pricks Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
I think you could look a good deal closer than Turkey for a country that did not welcome refugees arriving outside the prescribed system.
Turkey DID welcome refugees. They are currently hosting about 4 million of them.
Date: 5/03/2022 22:38:06
From: dv
ID: 1856723
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
sigh what a bunch of pricks Turkey were when the Syrians swarmed over the border sigh
I think you could look a good deal closer than Turkey for a country that did not welcome refugees arriving outside the prescribed system.
Turkey DID welcome refugees. They are currently hosting about 4 million of them.
Population: Turkey is host to the world’s largest refugee population since 2014.
There are 3.6 million Syrians under temporary protection and over 330,000 refugees and asylum seekers under international protection. Afghan nationals have been the leading International Protection applicants in Turkey since 2019.
Legal Framework: Turkey’s refugee response is based on a comprehensive legal framework, in particular the Law on Foreigners and International Protection (2013) and the Temporary Protection Regulation (2014).
UNHCR co-leads with UNDP the Regional Refugee and Resilience Plan (3RP) coordinating partner support to Turkey’s inclusive refugee response to address unmet needs and avoid duplication/gaps and chairs the Migration and International Protection Results Group of the Turkey 2021-25 UNSDCF.
https://reliefweb.int/report/turkey/unhcr-turkey-fact-sheet-september-2021-entr
Date: 5/03/2022 22:44:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856727
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
apologies the context was this thread in which a clip was posted suggesting that 500000 Ukrainian refugees were taken in by families rather than camping
Date: 5/03/2022 23:02:24
From: dv
ID: 1856739
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 5/03/2022 23:22:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856742
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

OTOH, maybe that was the point he was himself trying to make.
Date: 5/03/2022 23:44:39
From: dv
ID: 1856754
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:

OTOH, maybe that was the point he was himself trying to make.
There was a time I’d have assumed so but in the last few years he’s just gone saddy
Date: 5/03/2022 23:45:38
From: dv
ID: 1856755
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 5/03/2022 23:47:45
From: party_pants
ID: 1856756
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Yeah, the oligarchs of Londongrad are in a bind over all of this.
Date: 5/03/2022 23:57:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856757
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:

OTOH, maybe that was the point he was himself trying to make.
There was a time I’d have assumed so but in the last few years he’s just gone saddy
Lack of diversity in Putin’s Army?
Not sure what he means there. Clones in Putin’s army maybe?
Maybe…
Lack of intelligence in Putin’s Army.
Jump over the cliff soldiers in Putin’s army.
Teenagers with no idea In Putin’s army
Thugs in Putin’s army.
Sending people to their deaths in Putin’s army.
Would be suicidals in Putin’s army
War criminals in Putin’s army.
No idea who I am or where I am in Putin’s army.
Date: 6/03/2022 00:11:21
From: dv
ID: 1856767
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

I mean… okay
Date: 6/03/2022 00:13:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856768
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I mean… okay
In twelve different gourmet flavours.
Date: 6/03/2022 00:17:09
From: dv
ID: 1856771
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Fun fact
Zelensky’s first language was Russian
Date: 6/03/2022 00:20:52
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856775
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Fun fact
Zelensky’s first language was Russian
Russians need a new President, a true leader like Zelensky, not a capitalist ruling a communist country.
Date: 6/03/2022 00:22:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1856776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:
Fun fact
Zelensky’s first language was Russian
Russians need a new President, a true leader like Zelensky, not a capitalist ruling a communist country.
Yes, But that is a matter for the Russian people.
For the rest of the world to insist on “regime change” is probably going to be counter-productiv.
Date: 6/03/2022 00:23:56
From: dv
ID: 1856777
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 6/03/2022 00:28:17
From: sibeen
ID: 1856778
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

All wars end in a political solution, not a military one…
scratches at pate
Err…what?
Date: 6/03/2022 00:28:32
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856779
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:
Fun fact
Zelensky’s first language was Russian
Russians need a new President, a true leader like Zelensky, not a capitalist ruling a communist country.
Yes, But that is a matter for the Russian people.
For the rest of the world to insist on “regime change” is probably going to be counter-productiv.
Yes.
Date: 6/03/2022 00:32:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1856780
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:

All wars end in a political solution, not a military one…
scratches at pate
Err…what?
It is a somewhat mystifying statement, especially as quite a lot of wars don’t end in a “solution” of any kind.
Date: 6/03/2022 00:35:15
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856781
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 6/03/2022 00:47:34
From: dv
ID: 1856784
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:
Fun fact
Zelensky’s first language was Russian
Russians need a new President, a true leader like Zelensky, not a capitalist ruling a communist country.
SO wait … Ukraine should invade and take over Russia? Hot take.
Date: 6/03/2022 01:00:51
From: dv
ID: 1856788
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’m listening to Sir Robert John Sawers discussing the Ukraine conflict at Oxford Union. Very interesting and informative. Like so many others, he believes that Putin has changed a lot in the last few years, in a troubling way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5lzKVn3sc
On the other hand, a couple of comments remind me of how people were thinking in the early years of 2000s, even among some Labour parties…
“He was a man who’d stabilised Russia after the chaotic 1990s, who actually in his first couple of years was trying to modernise and reform Russia in a sensible direction.”
Putin privatised state owned industries in a way that handed tens of billions of dollars in assets to his cronies.
Date: 6/03/2022 01:03:49
From: party_pants
ID: 1856789
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I’m listening to Sir Robert John Sawers discussing the Ukraine conflict at Oxford Union. Very interesting and informative. Like so many others, he believes that Putin has changed a lot in the last few years, in a troubling way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5lzKVn3sc
On the other hand, a couple of comments remind me of how people were thinking in the early years of 2000s, even among some Labour parties…
“He was a man who’d stabilised Russia after the chaotic 1990s, who actually in his first couple of years was trying to modernise and reform Russia in a sensible direction.”
Putin privatised state owned industries in a way that handed tens of billions of dollars in assets to his cronies.
Yeah. I watched that one a day or so ago. Popped in in my YouTube recommendations list.
Date: 6/03/2022 01:08:47
From: dv
ID: 1856790
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-969210303435?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APFactCheck

It’s kind of funny
Date: 6/03/2022 01:09:42
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1856791
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
I’m listening to Sir Robert John Sawers discussing the Ukraine conflict at Oxford Union. Very interesting and informative. Like so many others, he believes that Putin has changed a lot in the last few years, in a troubling way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5lzKVn3sc
On the other hand, a couple of comments remind me of how people were thinking in the early years of 2000s, even among some Labour parties…
“He was a man who’d stabilised Russia after the chaotic 1990s, who actually in his first couple of years was trying to modernise and reform Russia in a sensible direction.”
Putin privatised state owned industries in a way that handed tens of billions of dollars in assets to his cronies.
Yeah. I watched that one a day or so ago. Popped in in my YouTube recommendations list.
It will probably pop up in mine now.
Date: 6/03/2022 01:10:12
From: sibeen
ID: 1856792
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I’m listening to Sir Robert John Sawers discussing the Ukraine conflict at Oxford Union. Very interesting and informative. Like so many others, he believes that Putin has changed a lot in the last few years, in a troubling way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5lzKVn3sc
On the other hand, a couple of comments remind me of how people were thinking in the early years of 2000s, even among some Labour parties…
“He was a man who’d stabilised Russia after the chaotic 1990s, who actually in his first couple of years was trying to modernise and reform Russia in a sensible direction.”
Putin privatised state owned industries in a way that handed tens of billions of dollars in assets to his cronies.
Wouldn’t ‘tens of billions’ be a bit of an understatement?
Date: 6/03/2022 01:20:26
From: dv
ID: 1856793
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
I’m listening to Sir Robert John Sawers discussing the Ukraine conflict at Oxford Union. Very interesting and informative. Like so many others, he believes that Putin has changed a lot in the last few years, in a troubling way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5lzKVn3sc
On the other hand, a couple of comments remind me of how people were thinking in the early years of 2000s, even among some Labour parties…
“He was a man who’d stabilised Russia after the chaotic 1990s, who actually in his first couple of years was trying to modernise and reform Russia in a sensible direction.”
Putin privatised state owned industries in a way that handed tens of billions of dollars in assets to his cronies.
Wouldn’t ‘tens of billions’ be a bit of an understatement?
a hundred tens of billions
Date: 6/03/2022 02:23:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856798
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:
Fun fact
Zelensky’s first language was Russian
Russians need a new President, a true leader like Zelensky, not a capitalist ruling a communist country.
SO wait … Ukraine should invade and take over Russia? Hot take.
NATO Grab Putin > Take over Russia.
Send Putin to the Hague U.N.’s International Court of Justice the International Criminal Court on War Terror charges.
Feed Shirtless Putin To Hungry Bear.
Give control to Russian Prime Minister.
Withdraw on Conditions.
Date: 6/03/2022 02:33:46
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1856800
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Can you imagine Putin saying to the Russian people that he was kicked out of Ukraine by neo-Nazis. It ain’t going to happen, he has set the agenda until the end.
Date: 6/03/2022 06:02:37
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1856821
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Did anyone else notice this in the news?
America doubled its troops in Poland in the month before the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
It was already planning to attack Russia back then.
Date: 6/03/2022 07:01:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856826
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Did anyone else notice this in the news?
America doubled its troops in Poland in the month before the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
It was already planning to attack Russia back then.
Gosh. Sometimes I wonder where you have been for the past 30 years.
or are you a voice from the past?
Date: 6/03/2022 07:10:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856828
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian President Vladimir Putin says Western sanctions on Moscow are akin to a declaration of war, and warns any attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine will lead to catastrophic consequences for the world.
Again more threats.
Date: 6/03/2022 07:30:45
From: dv
ID: 1856829
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Russian President Vladimir Putin says Western sanctions on Moscow are akin to a declaration of war, and warns any attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine will lead to catastrophic consequences for the world.
Again more threats.
Ah well I guess they might as well declare war then
Date: 6/03/2022 07:36:22
From: buffy
ID: 1856831
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-969210303435?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APFactCheck

It’s kind of funny
I’m not sure funny is quite the right word.
Date: 6/03/2022 07:38:40
From: dv
ID: 1856832
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
dv said:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-969210303435?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APFactCheck

It’s kind of funny
I’m not sure funny is quite the right word.
Well you know. Wryly poignant? Something.
Date: 6/03/2022 07:43:51
From: buffy
ID: 1856834
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
buffy said:
dv said:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-969210303435?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APFactCheck

It’s kind of funny
I’m not sure funny is quite the right word.
Well you know. Wryly poignant? Something.
I think that’s better. Sad, might be another one. Deeply sad.
Date: 6/03/2022 08:24:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856842
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
dv said:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-969210303435?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APFactCheck

It’s kind of funny
I’m not sure funny is quite the right word.
Me as well.
Date: 6/03/2022 08:24:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856843
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
buffy said:
dv said:
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-969210303435?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APFactCheck

It’s kind of funny
I’m not sure funny is quite the right word.
Well you know. Wryly poignant? Something.
That’s a bit better.
Date: 6/03/2022 09:26:34
From: Michael V
ID: 1856849
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Did anyone else notice this in the news?
America doubled its troops in Poland in the month before the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
It was already planning to attack Russia back then.
It was thoroughly reported on at the time, which was as Russia was building its troops in Belarus. It was a NATO strengthening action.
Russia amassed troops first.
I think your interpretation is thoroughly flawed and likely opposite to the truth.
Your silly, unthoughtful comments could well be interpreted by others as trolling. I interpret it as jumping to conclusions and shooting your mouth off.
Date: 6/03/2022 09:32:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1856850
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Your silly, unthoughtful comments could well be interpreted by others as trolling. I interpret it as jumping to conclusions and shooting your mouth off.
It’s a very basic propaganda tactic to trumpet loud just the part of the story that suits your view/bias, taking it out of context, and hoping that the population’s generally poor memory can’t fill in the missing bits, or that they’ll accept what you say and how you say it because they feel that they may have missed something along the way.
An old and basic ploy, but it very often works, which is why it’s used so frequently.
Date: 6/03/2022 09:56:29
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1856856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
mollwollfumble said:
Did anyone else notice this in the news?
America doubled its troops in Poland in the month before the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
It was already planning to attack Russia back then.
It was thoroughly reported on at the time, which was as Russia was building its troops in Belarus. It was a NATO strengthening action.
Russia amassed troops first.
I think your interpretation is thoroughly flawed and likely opposite to the truth.
Your silly, unthoughtful comments could well be interpreted by others as trolling. I interpret it as jumping to conclusions and shooting your mouth off.
I suspect moll just sees himself as carrying out his duties as the forum’s devil’s advocate.
To be fair, he’s nowhere near as annoying as wookie, but that’s not saying much.
Date: 6/03/2022 10:00:52
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856857
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
buffy said:
I’m not sure funny is quite the right word.
Well you know. Wryly poignant? Something.
That’s a bit better.
yeah but Palestine never were officially an independent country so it’s good for the country that actually exists to assert their sovereignty
Date: 6/03/2022 10:15:42
From: dv
ID: 1856861
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Oleksandra and her four rescue dogs have been sheltering in the bathroom of her flat in Kharkiv since the shelling began.
“When I heard the first explosions, I ran out of the house to get my dogs from their enclosures outside. People were panicking, abandoning their cars. I was so scared,” she says.
The 25-year-old has been speaking regularly to her mother, who lives in Moscow. But in these conversations, and even after sending videos from her heavily bombarded hometown, Oleksandra is unable to convince her mother about the danger she is in.
“I didn’t want to scare my parents, but I started telling them directly that civilians and children are dying,” she says.
“But even though they worry about me, they still say it probably happens only by accident, that the Russian army would never target civilians. That it’s Ukrainians who’re killing their own people.”
It’s common for Ukrainians to have family across the border in Russia. But for some, like Oleksandra, their Russian relatives have a contrasting understanding of the conflict. She believes it’s down to the stories they are told by the tightly-controlled Russian media.
Oleksandra says her mother just repeats the narratives of what she hears on Russian state TV channels.
“It really scared me when my mum exactly quoted Russian TV. They are just brainwashing people. And people trust them,” says Oleksandra.
“My parents understand that some military action is happening here. But they say: ‘Russians came to liberate you. They won’t ruin anything, they won’t touch you. They’re only targeting military bases’.”
While we were interviewing Oleksandra, the shelling went on. The internet connection was weak, so we had to exchange voice messages.
“I’ve almost forgotten what silence sounds like. They’re shelling non-stop,” she said.
But on Russian state TV channels on the same day, there was no mention of the missiles striking Kharkiv’s residential districts, of civilian deaths, or of four people killed while queuing for water.
Russian media say the threat to Ukrainian civilians doesn’t come from the Russian armed forces, it comes from Ukrainian nationalists using civilians as human shields.
Russian state TV channels justify the war by blaming Ukrainian aggression, and continue to call it “a special operation of liberation”. Any Russian outlet using the words “war”, “invasion” or “attack” faces being blocked by the country’s media regulator for spreading “deliberately false information about the actions of Russian military personnel” in Ukraine.
And now a new law has passed through the Russian Parliament that means people who spread “fake” information about Russia’s military forces could be jailed for up to 15 years.
Some Russians have taken to the streets to protest against the war – but these demonstrations were not shown on the main state television channels.
Watching the war on Russian TV – a whole different story
Mykhailo, a well-known Kyiv restaurateur, didn’t have the time or inclination to watch Russian TV coverage of the invasion.
When shelling of Ukraine’s capital started, he and his wife were concentrating on how to protect their six-year-old daughter and baby son.
At night their children woke up at the sound of explosions and couldn’t stop crying. The family made the decision to move to the outskirts of Kyiv and then flee abroad.
They travelled to Hungary, where Mykhailo left his wife and children and came back to Western Ukraine to help the war effort.
He was surprised not to have heard from his father, who works at a monastery near Nizhny Novgorod in Russia. He called his father and described what was happening. His father replied that this wasn’t true; there was no war and – in fact – Russians were saving Ukraine from Nazis.
Mykhailo said he felt he knew the power of Russian propaganda, but when he heard it from his father, he was devastated.
Russia attacks Ukraine: More coverage
“My own father does not believe me, knowing that I’m here and see everything with my own eyes. And my mum, his ex-wife, is going through this too,” he says.
“She is hiding with my grandmother in the bathroom, because of the bombardment.”
Russian media has been tightly controlled for many years and viewers are given an uncritical view of Russia and its actions around the world.
“The state narrative only ever shows Russia as the good guy.” says Dr Joanna Szostek, an expert in Russia and political communications at University of Glasgow.
“Even the tales they tell about World War Two, the Great Patriotic War, Russia has never really done anything wrong. And this is why they won’t believe it now.”
Most Russians, she says, don’t look for other points of view. She believes the one-sided narrative that is highly critical of the West helps explain why Russians can have opposing views to their relatives in neighbouring countries.
“People who criticise Russia have for so long been presented as traitors or foreign agents; critics are all foreign agents working for the West. So you don’t even believe your own daughter.”
Anastasiya’s parents live in a small village 20km (12 miles) away from the rebel-held Donetsk People’s Republic. The village is still under the control of Kyiv authorities, but Russian state TV channels are always on in their house. They even have the clock set to Moscow time – a throwback to the Soviet past.
So when on 24 February, Anastasiya woke up in Kyiv to the sound of sirens, she knew how her parents would react.
‘My mum was the first person I called when I jumped out of bed at five, disoriented. She was surprised I called and sounded really calm, almost casual,” she says.
Anastasiya, a BBC Ukrainian correspondent who moved to Kyiv 10 years ago, heard bombs exploding after waking and was worried about where would be hit next.
“I called my mum again. I told her I was scared. ‘Don’t worry’, she said, reassuringly. ‘They will never bomb Kyiv’.”
But they are already doing it, Anastasiya replied.
“I told her there were casualties among civilians. ‘But that’s what we had too when Ukraine attacked Donbas!’, she said, laughing. For a moment I couldn’t breathe. Hearing my mum say this with such cruelty just broke my heart.”
Anastasiya believes the image Russian media has created is one of the “glorified Russian army” ridding Ukraine from Nazis. For years she avoided political arguments with her parents, but this time she slammed the phone down on her mum.
We spoke to Anastasiya when she was travelling away from Kyiv after four nights in a bomb shelter. Her mind was on an uncertain future.
“There are a lot of thoughts in my head now. What will happen to us all? Where is this going? Will I ever come back? Will I ever see my parents again? I still love them deeply, but something inside me has broken and I don’t think it can ever be fixed.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60600487
Date: 6/03/2022 11:02:03
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856875
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Just heard air-raid sirens sounding on this YT channel – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vqx7rlgGp8
Date: 6/03/2022 12:00:00
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1856886
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
mollwollfumble said:
Did anyone else notice this in the news?
America doubled its troops in Poland in the month before the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
It was already planning to attack Russia back then.
It was thoroughly reported on at the time, which was as Russia was building its troops in Belarus. It was a NATO strengthening action.
Russia amassed troops first.
I think your interpretation is thoroughly flawed and likely opposite to the truth.
Your silly, unthoughtful comments could well be interpreted by others as trolling. I interpret it as jumping to conclusions and shooting your mouth off.
I suspect moll just sees himself as carrying out his duties as the forum’s devil’s advocate.
To be fair, he’s nowhere near as annoying as wookie, but that’s not saying much.
I can appreciate Wookie since he bases his views on his reading of the media. Moll doesn’t read any authoritative media and bases his opinions on what any bullshit that comes to his head.
Date: 6/03/2022 12:09:38
From: fsm
ID: 1856888
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Mastercard and Visa are suspending their operations in Russia, the companies said, in the latest blow to the country’s financial system after its invasion of Ukraine.
Mastercard said cards issued by Russian banks will no longer be supported by its network and any Mastercard issued outside the country will not work at Russian stores or ATMs.
Date: 6/03/2022 12:14:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1856890
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Mastercard and Visa are suspending their operations in Russia, the companies said, in the latest blow to the country’s financial system after its invasion of Ukraine.
Mastercard said cards issued by Russian banks will no longer be supported by its network and any Mastercard issued outside the country will not work at Russian stores or ATMs.
Take that Russian oligarchs.
Date: 6/03/2022 12:27:52
From: fsm
ID: 1856895
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
People around the world are booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. They don’t plan to check-in.
Airbnb hosts in Ukraine are being flooded with bookings from people all over the world who have no plans to visit.
It’s part of a creative social media campaign to funnel money to besieged Ukrainians who need financial assistance as Russian forces bombard their country and cut off services.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/people-around-the-world-are-booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine-they-dont-plan-to-check-in/faf5867e-bc4d-4691-8855-62c9e30a8bae
Date: 6/03/2022 12:29:23
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1856897
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
People around the world are booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. They don’t plan to check-in.
Airbnb hosts in Ukraine are being flooded with bookings from people all over the world who have no plans to visit.
It’s part of a creative social media campaign to funnel money to besieged Ukrainians who need financial assistance as Russian forces bombard their country and cut off services.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/people-around-the-world-are-booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine-they-dont-plan-to-check-in/faf5867e-bc4d-4691-8855-62c9e30a8bae
Very creative.
Date: 6/03/2022 12:48:04
From: fsm
ID: 1856901
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Italy seizes oligarchs’ villas and yachts to put pressure on Russia
Reuters – Italian police have seized villas and yachts worth 143 million euros ($156 million) from five high-profile Russians who were placed on sanctions lists following Moscow’s attack on Ukraine, the government said on Saturday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-seizes-oligarchs-villas-yachts-initial-sweep-2022-03-05/
Date: 6/03/2022 12:51:34
From: party_pants
ID: 1856904
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Italy seizes oligarchs’ villas and yachts to put pressure on Russia
Reuters – Italian police have seized villas and yachts worth 143 million euros ($156 million) from five high-profile Russians who were placed on sanctions lists following Moscow’s attack on Ukraine, the government said on Saturday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-seizes-oligarchs-villas-yachts-initial-sweep-2022-03-05/
Sounds good.
Date: 6/03/2022 12:55:18
From: Michael V
ID: 1856907
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
fsm said:
People around the world are booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. They don’t plan to check-in.
Airbnb hosts in Ukraine are being flooded with bookings from people all over the world who have no plans to visit.
It’s part of a creative social media campaign to funnel money to besieged Ukrainians who need financial assistance as Russian forces bombard their country and cut off services.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/people-around-the-world-are-booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine-they-dont-plan-to-check-in/faf5867e-bc4d-4691-8855-62c9e30a8bae
Very creative.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/04/booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine/
Date: 6/03/2022 13:23:29
From: fsm
ID: 1856917
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Footage released by Ukrainian armed forces appears to show a Russian helicopter being shot down over Ukraine.
The footage was posted by the Ukrainian armed forces twitter account, with the caption ‘Welcome to hell!’
The video is reported to have been recorded on the morning of March 5, 2022, but it is not clear where the footage was filmed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHq7SJ40dPI
Date: 6/03/2022 13:29:33
From: Arts
ID: 1856919
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
People around the world are booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. They don’t plan to check-in.
Airbnb hosts in Ukraine are being flooded with bookings from people all over the world who have no plans to visit.
It’s part of a creative social media campaign to funnel money to besieged Ukrainians who need financial assistance as Russian forces bombard their country and cut off services.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/people-around-the-world-are-booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine-they-dont-plan-to-check-in/faf5867e-bc4d-4691-8855-62c9e30a8bae
yes I did this this week after nanette (I can’t remember her forum name) posted something on Facebook.,., the person was super grateful and at least you know the money is actually going to them…
Date: 6/03/2022 13:57:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856924
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
mollwollfumble said:
Did anyone else notice this in the news?
America doubled its troops in Poland in the month before the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
It was already planning to attack Russia back then.
It was thoroughly reported on at the time, which was as Russia was building its troops in Belarus. It was a NATO strengthening action.
Russia amassed troops first.
I think your interpretation is thoroughly flawed and likely opposite to the truth.
Your silly, unthoughtful comments could well be interpreted by others as trolling. I interpret it as jumping to conclusions and shooting your mouth off.
I suspect moll just sees himself as carrying out his duties as the forum’s devil’s advocate.
To be fair, he’s nowhere near as annoying as wookie, but that’s not saying much.
To have them both in the one thread though?
Date: 6/03/2022 14:05:50
From: Michael V
ID: 1856930
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian President Vladimir Putin continued to pin the blame for all of it squarely on the Ukrainian leadership and slammed their resistance to the invasion.
“If they continue to do what they are doing, they are calling into question the future of Ukrainian statehood,” he said. “And if this happens, it will be entirely on their conscience.”
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-06/russia-ukraine-war-invasion-live-updates/100886186
Date: 6/03/2022 14:27:02
From: dv
ID: 1856934
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
fsm said:
People around the world are booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. They don’t plan to check-in.
Airbnb hosts in Ukraine are being flooded with bookings from people all over the world who have no plans to visit.
It’s part of a creative social media campaign to funnel money to besieged Ukrainians who need financial assistance as Russian forces bombard their country and cut off services.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/people-around-the-world-are-booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine-they-dont-plan-to-check-in/faf5867e-bc4d-4691-8855-62c9e30a8bae
yes I did this this week after nanette (I can’t remember her forum name) posted something on Facebook.,., the person was super grateful and at least you know the money is actually going to them…
I mean …
I hardly like to cavil but it seems to me that this money would be going to people who are least in need: people who are in a position to let out property to airbnb, rather than refugees.
Date: 6/03/2022 14:28:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856935
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Footage released by Ukrainian armed forces appears to show a Russian helicopter being shot down over Ukraine.
The footage was posted by the Ukrainian armed forces twitter account, with the caption ‘Welcome to hell!’
The video is reported to have been recorded on the morning of March 5, 2022, but it is not clear where the footage was filmed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHq7SJ40dPI
Some computer game right.
Date: 6/03/2022 14:34:28
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1856937
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

Date: 6/03/2022 14:34:45
From: Arts
ID: 1856938
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Arts said:
fsm said:
People around the world are booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. They don’t plan to check-in.
Airbnb hosts in Ukraine are being flooded with bookings from people all over the world who have no plans to visit.
It’s part of a creative social media campaign to funnel money to besieged Ukrainians who need financial assistance as Russian forces bombard their country and cut off services.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/people-around-the-world-are-booking-airbnbs-in-ukraine-they-dont-plan-to-check-in/faf5867e-bc4d-4691-8855-62c9e30a8bae
yes I did this this week after nanette (I can’t remember her forum name) posted something on Facebook.,., the person was super grateful and at least you know the money is actually going to them…
I mean …
I hardly like to cavil but it seems to me that this money would be going to people who are least in need: people who are in a position to let out property to airbnb, rather than refugees.
their property isn’t being let out though… and for many this is their only source of income… so rather than make them refugees, it’s a step toward allowing them to stay in their own country..
Date: 6/03/2022 14:43:00
From: dv
ID: 1856943
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
dv said:
Arts said:
yes I did this this week after nanette (I can’t remember her forum name) posted something on Facebook.,., the person was super grateful and at least you know the money is actually going to them…
I mean …
I hardly like to cavil but it seems to me that this money would be going to people who are least in need: people who are in a position to let out property to airbnb, rather than refugees.
their property isn’t being let out though… and for many this is their only source of income… so rather than make them refugees, it’s a step toward allowing them to stay in their own country..
Okay, each to their own, it’s good that folks are helping how they can. I’ll stick to old fashioned Red Cross.
Date: 6/03/2022 14:43:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856944
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

guess attacking drones would totally be loitering at jar height but what would they know
Date: 6/03/2022 14:44:52
From: dv
ID: 1856946
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

guess attacking drones would totally be loitering at jar height but what would they know
Might have been a recog drone?
Date: 6/03/2022 14:46:50
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1856949
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

guess attacking drones would totally be loitering at jar height but what would they know
might have hurled it down from an apartment balcony.
Date: 6/03/2022 14:48:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856952
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
JudgeMental said:
SCIENCE said:
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

guess attacking drones would totally be loitering at jar height but what would they know
might have hurled it down from an apartment balcony.
or simply dropped it off the balcony on it’s head?
Date: 6/03/2022 14:49:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856953
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

guess attacking drones would totally be loitering at jar height but what would they know
Might have been a recog drone?
sure though it seems a few forward scouting humans would probably also be easier to take down than a serious assault group
Date: 6/03/2022 14:53:06
From: Woodie
ID: 1856956
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

That would have got them into a bit of a pickle, hey what but.
Date: 6/03/2022 14:54:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 1856958
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

That would have got them into a bit of a pickle, hey what but.
The gherkin strategy.
Date: 6/03/2022 15:02:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1856959
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Woodie said:
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

That would have got them into a bit of a pickle, hey what but.
The gherkin strategy.
could have squashed them we guess
Date: 6/03/2022 15:22:56
From: dv
ID: 1856969
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 6/03/2022 15:49:47
From: dv
ID: 1856983
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/07/19/craig-kelly-and-why-the-right-loves-rootin-for-putin/
This article about why Craig Kelly and is ilk are so enamoured with Putin is 4 years old but still relevant.
Date: 6/03/2022 16:01:01
From: sibeen
ID: 1856994
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

I love the use of the high vis over the camo.
Date: 6/03/2022 16:54:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1857035
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 6/03/2022 17:02:52
From: fsm
ID: 1857038
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

She blew it to cucurbits.
Date: 6/03/2022 17:06:37
From: Michael V
ID: 1857039
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Spiny Norman said:
This seems unlikely, but I hope it’s legit.

She blew it to cucurbits.
:)
Date: 6/03/2022 18:16:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1857050
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 6/03/2022 20:12:10
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857080
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
An interesting video discussing how logistics is one of the major factors in the lack of Russian success in the war:
https://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w
Date: 6/03/2022 20:27:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857084
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
JudgeMental said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:

Peter Dutton flags Australia sending weapons to Taiwan, acquiring nuclear submarines before 2040
—
remember when a country sending armaments to a neighbour abutting a third party constituted threat of war against that third party and then the international community responded with sanctions
No, don’t remember that.
Shit no, at one stage, i would have been out of job if that had been the case.
Fair enough.
We suppose we got confused and mistook it for that other time when a country deployed peacekeeping weapons to a neighbouring region (or 2 or 3 or more) that was majority seeking to declare independence and realignment.
Date: 6/03/2022 20:36:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857089
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
apparently

Date: 6/03/2022 20:37:41
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857091
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 6/03/2022 20:41:57
From: sibeen
ID: 1857093
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
apparently

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-russian-crony-evgeny-lebedev-got-peerage-after-spies-dropped-warning-3dp6sw29x
The Times, the fucking times, what, you think this place is full of bourgeois latte sippers?
Date: 6/03/2022 20:43:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857094
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
apparently

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-russian-crony-evgeny-lebedev-got-peerage-after-spies-dropped-warning-3dp6sw29x
The Times, the fucking times, what, you think this place is full of bourgeois latte sippers?
well we did eat some avocado just now, it wasn’t smashed though
Date: 6/03/2022 20:58:35
From: party_pants
ID: 1857112
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
apparently

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-russian-crony-evgeny-lebedev-got-peerage-after-spies-dropped-warning-3dp6sw29x
The Times, the fucking times, what, you think this place is full of bourgeois latte sippers?
The pro-Brexit faction of Tories are the most unworthy bunch of crooks ever to hold government in the history of the UK.
Date: 6/03/2022 20:59:17
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1857113
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
An interesting video discussing how logistics is one of the major factors in the lack of Russian success in the war:
https://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w
To me it seems like they want to lose. They’re made – at best – a half-arsed effort to invade Ukraine and aren’t really backing it up with decent support. They could have easily launched a few hundred cruise missiles to soften things up even before crossing the border. Some high-altitude precision bombing. Lots of options that would have worked better but they just haven’t done any of it.
Why?
Date: 6/03/2022 21:00:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857117
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-russian-crony-evgeny-lebedev-got-peerage-after-spies-dropped-warning-3dp6sw29x
The Times, the fucking times, what, you think this place is full of bourgeois latte sippers?
The pro-Brexit faction of Tories are the most unworthy bunch of crooks ever to hold government in the history of the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-security-evgeny-lebedev-perugia-party
Date: 6/03/2022 21:02:09
From: dv
ID: 1857119
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
An interesting video discussing how logistics is one of the major factors in the lack of Russian success in the war:
https://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w
To me it seems like they want to lose. They’re made – at best – a half-arsed effort to invade Ukraine and aren’t really backing it up with decent support. They could have easily launched a few hundred cruise missiles to soften things up even before crossing the border. Some high-altitude precision bombing. Lots of options that would have worked better but they just haven’t done any of it.
Why?
I don’t know shit about any of this but maybe there is dissension within the Russian military and intelligence services. Maybe there are leaders actively trying to restrain the attack which they work out what to do about an irrational Putin.
Date: 6/03/2022 21:03:27
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1857122
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
An interesting video discussing how logistics is one of the major factors in the lack of Russian success in the war:
https://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w
To me it seems like they want to lose. They’re made – at best – a half-arsed effort to invade Ukraine and aren’t really backing it up with decent support. They could have easily launched a few hundred cruise missiles to soften things up even before crossing the border. Some high-altitude precision bombing. Lots of options that would have worked better but they just haven’t done any of it.
Why?
I don’t know shit about any of this but maybe there is dissension within the Russian military and intelligence services. Maybe there are leaders actively trying to restrain the attack which they work out what to do about an irrational Putin.
I was thinking along similar lines earlier tonight. Do the military leaders want this to fail?
Date: 6/03/2022 21:04:00
From: dv
ID: 1857123
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-russian-crony-evgeny-lebedev-got-peerage-after-spies-dropped-warning-3dp6sw29x
The Times, the fucking times, what, you think this place is full of bourgeois latte sippers?
The pro-Brexit faction of Tories are the most unworthy bunch of crooks ever to hold government in the history of the UK.
Lebedev has sat in the House of Lords as a crossbench life peer since 19 November 2020
ROFLMFAO
Date: 6/03/2022 21:04:23
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857124
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
the russians are using all their old crap, they haven’t even committed even a third of their troops to ukraine
they aren’t using the new armata tank maybe they are using up all all of the old crap
Date: 6/03/2022 21:05:19
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857125
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
maybe they figure NATO is going to attack anyway and has to decoded to hold it all in reserve
Date: 6/03/2022 21:07:39
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1857127
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
the russians are using all their old crap, they haven’t even committed even a third of their troops to ukraine
they aren’t using the new armata tank maybe they are using up all all of the old crap
They’re using the best tanks they have at the moment, the Armatas are due for completion later this year.
Date: 6/03/2022 21:11:56
From: dv
ID: 1857131
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 6/03/2022 22:40:50
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857156
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
LOL.
https://twitter.com/CombatJourno/status/1500163090553483264
A team of Russian soldiers wanted to use the elevator to reach the roof of an office building. The Ukrainian admin of the building trapped them inside by cutting off the electricity.

Date: 6/03/2022 22:43:22
From: Kingy
ID: 1857158
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
LOL.
https://twitter.com/CombatJourno/status/1500163090553483264
A team of Russian soldiers wanted to use the elevator to reach the roof of an office building. The Ukrainian admin of the building trapped them inside by cutting off the electricity.

Pop in the manhole above them with an unpinned grenade and ask them if they would like to surrender.
Date: 7/03/2022 00:41:36
From: sibeen
ID: 1857199
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Do I even need to mention that zinc is approaching it highest all time price? Still a bit to go but I suspect it will get there.
Date: 7/03/2022 01:26:52
From: dv
ID: 1857215
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Do I even need to mention that zinc is approaching it highest all time price? Still a bit to go but I suspect it will get there.
I mean… Russia is a major producer of almost every mined or drilled resource, as you’d expect when you cover 12% of the earth’s surface.
Date: 7/03/2022 01:34:08
From: party_pants
ID: 1857216
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
Do I even need to mention that zinc is approaching it highest all time price? Still a bit to go but I suspect it will get there.
I mean… Russia is a major producer of almost every mined or drilled resource, as you’d expect when you cover 12% of the earth’s surface.
Well yes. I have been thinking this.
Date: 7/03/2022 01:48:30
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857219
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A second attempt to evacuate an estimated 200,000 people out of Mariupol has come to a halt amid ongoing hostilities.
The United Nation’s human rights office says it has confirmed the deaths of 364 civilians in Ukraine since the Russian invasion began on February 24. The Geneva-based office said that another 759 civilians had been injured as of midnight Saturday. The rights office uses strict methodology and only reports casualties it has confirmed. It says it believes the real figures are considerably higher.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has urged his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to declare a ceasefire in Ukraine, open humanitarian corridors and sign a peace agreement, his office said. President Putin has told Turkey’s Erdogan in a phone call that Russia would halt its military operation only if Ukraine stopped fighting and Moscow’s demands were met, the Kremlin said in a statement. Naftali Bennett has spoken to Ukrainian leader Zelenskyy, their third conversation in two days, a spokesperson of the Israeli prime minister said, without giving further details. On Saturday, Bennett’s office said he made a surprise visit to Moscow to discuss the Ukraine crisis with Putin.
Russia continues to deliver gas to Europe via Ukraine at normal levels, according to state-owned energy giant Gazprom.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said Russian forces were preparing to bombard the city of Odesa on Ukraine’s Black Sea coast. Russia’s defence ministry says it struck and disabled Ukraine’s Starokostiantyniv military airbase with long-range high-precision weapons.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/5/russia-ukraine-nato-support-liveblog
Date: 7/03/2022 09:06:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857233
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Labor Party Propaganda Apparatus Your ABC Screams Support For Nuclear Proliferation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/ukraine-nuclear-war-threat-protects-russia-from-opposition/100882002
The lesson of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the possession alone of nuclear weapons offers those countries that have them virtual immunity from an effective military response.
recent history proves ownership of the means to destroy entire cities, if not countries, really is a protection against meaningful opposition
Date: 7/03/2022 09:10:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1857234
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Labor Party Propaganda Apparatus Your ABC Screams Support For Nuclear Proliferation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/ukraine-nuclear-war-threat-protects-russia-from-opposition/100882002
The lesson of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the possession alone of nuclear weapons offers those countries that have them virtual immunity from an effective military response.
recent history proves ownership of the means to destroy entire cities, if not countries, really is a protection against meaningful opposition
It is an odd bit of reporting.
Imagine Ukraine attempting to threaten Poo tin’s Russia with those nuclear weapons they gave up?
Date: 7/03/2022 09:11:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857235
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
Labor Party Propaganda Apparatus Your ABC Screams Support For Nuclear Proliferation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/ukraine-nuclear-war-threat-protects-russia-from-opposition/100882002
The lesson of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the possession alone of nuclear weapons offers those countries that have them virtual immunity from an effective military response.
recent history proves ownership of the means to destroy entire cities, if not countries, really is a protection against meaningful opposition
It is an odd bit of reporting.
Imagine Ukraine attempting to threaten Poo tin’s Russia with those nuclear weapons they gave up?
guess the conclusion then is that it’s back to spheres of influence and big power and no neutrals
Date: 7/03/2022 09:18:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1857236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
Labor Party Propaganda Apparatus Your ABC Screams Support For Nuclear Proliferation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/ukraine-nuclear-war-threat-protects-russia-from-opposition/100882002
The lesson of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the possession alone of nuclear weapons offers those countries that have them virtual immunity from an effective military response.
recent history proves ownership of the means to destroy entire cities, if not countries, really is a protection against meaningful opposition
It is an odd bit of reporting.
Imagine Ukraine attempting to threaten Poo tin’s Russia with those nuclear weapons they gave up?
guess the conclusion then is that it’s back to spheres of influence and big power and no neutrals
We have bigger things to think about.
Things that require us all to lose our sense of property and the concept of fighting for it.
Date: 7/03/2022 09:19:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1857237
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
Labor Party Propaganda Apparatus Your ABC Screams Support For Nuclear Proliferation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/ukraine-nuclear-war-threat-protects-russia-from-opposition/100882002
The lesson of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the possession alone of nuclear weapons offers those countries that have them virtual immunity from an effective military response.
recent history proves ownership of the means to destroy entire cities, if not countries, really is a protection against meaningful opposition
It is an odd bit of reporting.
Imagine Ukraine attempting to threaten Poo tin’s Russia with those nuclear weapons they gave up?
The threat is in the existence and possession of the weapons. No statements or declarations need to be made.
If Ukraine still had its nukes, Putin would have undoubtedly been very much more hesitant about invading.
Date: 7/03/2022 09:21:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857238
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
It is an odd bit of reporting.
Imagine Ukraine attempting to threaten Poo tin’s Russia with those nuclear weapons they gave up?
guess the conclusion then is that it’s back to spheres of influence and big power and no neutrals
We have bigger things to think about.
Things that require us all to lose our sense of property and the concept of fighting for it.
we wonder if you can, but sure, we hope someday you’ll join us
that said, Russia hoped someday Ukraine would join them
…
Date: 7/03/2022 09:22:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1857239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
Labor Party Propaganda Apparatus Your ABC Screams Support For Nuclear Proliferation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/ukraine-nuclear-war-threat-protects-russia-from-opposition/100882002
The lesson of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the possession alone of nuclear weapons offers those countries that have them virtual immunity from an effective military response.
recent history proves ownership of the means to destroy entire cities, if not countries, really is a protection against meaningful opposition
It is an odd bit of reporting.
Imagine Ukraine attempting to threaten Poo tin’s Russia with those nuclear weapons they gave up?
The threat is in the existence and possession of the weapons. No statements or declarations need to be made.
If Ukraine still had its nukes, Putin would have undoubtedly been very much more hesitant about invading.
Poo tin did study law.
However, he’s clearly not in full control of his urges.
Date: 7/03/2022 09:23:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1857240
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
guess the conclusion then is that it’s back to spheres of influence and big power and no neutrals
We have bigger things to think about.
Things that require us all to lose our sense of property and the concept of fighting for it.
we wonder if you can, but sure, we hope someday you’ll join us
that said, Russia hoped someday Ukraine would join them
…
Imagine, Poo tin style lyrics
Imagine all the world living in pieces.
Date: 7/03/2022 12:05:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857254
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia-Ukraine war live updates: Volodymyr Zelenskyy promises ‘day of judgement’ as Russian forces tighten grip on captured nuclear power plant

Date: 7/03/2022 13:42:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857310
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
article since deleted at the target
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/western-leaders-cannot-face-a-looming-war-so-i-guess-theyll-patch-something-up—and-let-russia-gobble-part-of-ukraine-9179978.html
but here’s the hint


anyway the Alternative News Sites have it mirrored
https://themuslimtimes.info/2014/03/09/western-leaders-cannot-face-a-looming-war-so-i-guess-theyll-patch-something-up-and-let-russia-gobble-part-of-ukraine-the-russkies-are-not-going-to-be-shaking-in-their-boots/
Western leaders cannot face a ‘looming’ war. So I guess they’ll patch something up – and let Russia gobble part of Ukraine – The Russkies are not going to be shaking in their boots at sanctions
For some reason, our last century’s two world wars started rather far from home. I bet that most people in January 1914 couldn’t find Sarajevo on a map. But then again, how many of us – really, I mean – could have found Simferopol on a map a year ago? Or three weeks ago, for that matter? The Second World War started because Britons simply wouldn’t take another crooked deal like Czechoslovakia – “a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”, in which our Neville at least put distance in front of ignorance. So Poland it was, which, by awful mischance, shares a border with modern-day Ukraine.
And this really is, I fear, the sort of grim, only slightly understood consciousness that we can’t let Poland/Ukraine down again, that we can’t let Putin threaten little Ukraine as we let Hitler threaten and invade Poland. Poland is on Ukraine’s doorstep – it’s funny how we get upset about countries that are “on our doorstep” – that’s what we said about Bosnia in the 1990s, as if those horrible Bosnians and Croats and Serbs did not deserve to have our door opened for them. They were in the backyard, I suspect, no privies, you know the sort of thing.
But, of course, Putin is not Hitler and it would be well to try to get the Second World War out of our bloodstream – not least because we have the First World War coursing through our corpuscles this year, and besides the Russians were on our side in the last war and in the war before that (for a time). So were the Serbs. But what struck me, watching all the EU spivs looking serious in Brussels last week, is that these people have no experience of war and somehow think that once they have made their threats, they can all go home and forget “the crisis”. I admit I am much moved by a newspaper headline in Beirut last week that began: “War looms…” Well, let’s hope not.
And the “crisis” or the war “looming” in the Ukraine is of great interest to someone who lives not a hundred miles from my home: President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, who will have been much relieved to see Putin leap to the rescue of Russian Ukraine as firmly as he did for Syria. Indeed, Assad, according to his government, has even sent a telegram to Putin – do people still send “telegrams”, by the way? – in which he “expressed … Syria’s solidarity with Putin’s efforts to restore security and stability to Ukraine in the face of attempted coups against legitimacy and democracy in favour of radical terrorists”. Syria was committed, Assad said, to “President Putin’s rational, peace-loving approach that seeks to establish a global system supporting stability and fighting”.
And Assad praised Putin’s “wise political leadership and commitment to international legitimacy based on the law that governs ties between nations and peoples”. Phew. Well, we got the point. Assad liked what he saw in Simferopol, although I notice he didn’t say anything about the ousted Viktor Yanukovich – and I’m not surprised. The Ukrainian leader did a bunk out of his own country. Assad did not run away. Putin, I suspect, will have liked that, just as Putin will have enjoyed the fact that Madame Clinton, Obama himself, David Cameron and Messieurs Hollande and Sarkozy – all of whom said years ago that Assad would go, was about to go or virtually gone – were totally wrong.
So what did I really think when I saw all these folk meeting in Brussels? I was reminded of a wonderful description of a British politician. It was written by Lawrence of Arabia and I take it from a fine new book on him by Scott Anderson. The man in question was “the imaginative advocate of unconvincing world movements … a bundle of prejudices, intuitions, half-sciences. His ideas were of the outside, and he lacked patience to test his materials before choosing his style of building. He would take an aspect of the truth, detach it from its circumstances, inflate it, twist and model it.” The politician was Mark Sykes of Sykes-Picot infamy, trying to be nice to everyone.
READ MORE: Mary Dejevsky: f we treat Vladimir Putin as a leader who wants to grab Russia’s empire back, we will be inviting him to do exactly that
Patrick Cockburn: To see what Ukraine’s future may be, just look at Lviv’s shameful past
But lest you think Sykes was too removed from our time, try this from the mouth of another British politician: “However much we may sympathise with a small nation confronted by a big and powerful neighbour, we cannot in all circumstances undertake to involve the whole British Empire (for which read “the EU”) in war simply on her account.” Our Neville again, of course, in 1938.
Makes you draw in your breath a bit, doesn’t it? The Russkies are not going to be shaking in their boots at sanctions. Punishing Russians and Ukrainians involved in Russia’s move into the Crimea will be a “useful tool”, said Obama – though why the US President has to use the language of computer geeks to threaten Moscow is beyond me. But that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? We can’t have war “looming”. It would destroy all our internets and computers and live-time news and globalisation and “tools”. It might even destroy us! Read that line again, the one from our Neville. They’ll patch something up, a political gig to let Russia gobble part of Ukraine but still calling it a federated republic. Pity about the Tatars. Peace in our time.
As the Armenians will testify, we have been here before
On the subject of Ukraine, you might – if you happen to be passing through Beirut – pick up two hefty volumes by Katia Peltekian, an Armenian researcher who specialises in publishing news reports about the 1915 Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turks. The Times and The Manchester Guardian gave extensive coverage to the century’s first Holocaust – some of the young German military witnesses turned up in the Wehrmacht in Russia less than 30 years later – and Peltekian has captured most of these reports in 976 pages.
What is most intriguing is the way in which the Great Powers lost interest in the one and a half million Armenian dead almost as soon as the 1914-18 war had ended. The Times was filled with heartbreaking letters from Armenians and the British society which supported them, pleading with the British and French and the Italians and the Americans – pretty much the same lot who were rambling on in Brussels last week – to let them have a nation that included part of eastern Turkey. Be patient, the Armenians were told. They had already been scattered across the Middle East, but were still being killed inside Turkey itself. Some found refuge in Russia. And some in the Ukraine .
Date: 7/03/2022 14:12:28
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857333
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian forces made ‘minimal ground advances’, British intelligence says
The UK’s ministry of defence has just released its latest intelligence report, speculating that Russian forces made “minimal ground advances” over the weekend.
Russian forces probably made minimal ground advances over the weekend. It is highly unlikely that Russia has successfully achieved its planned objectives to date.”
The ministry notes a “high level of Russian air and artillery strikes” have continued to hit military and civilian sites in Ukrainian cities over the past 24 hours.
“Recent strikes have targeted Kharkiv, Mykolaiv and Chernihiv, and been particularly heavy in Mariupol,” the report added.
Guardian Live
Date: 7/03/2022 14:27:36
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857335
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russian forces made ‘minimal ground advances’, British intelligence says
The UK’s ministry of defence has just released its latest intelligence report, speculating that Russian forces made “minimal ground advances” over the weekend.
Russian forces probably made minimal ground advances over the weekend. It is highly unlikely that Russia has successfully achieved its planned objectives to date.”
The ministry notes a “high level of Russian air and artillery strikes” have continued to hit military and civilian sites in Ukrainian cities over the past 24 hours.
“Recent strikes have targeted Kharkiv, Mykolaiv and Chernihiv, and been particularly heavy in Mariupol,” the report added.
Guardian Live
it just seems so wearing that the reporting is always “they haven’t fucked everything yet, calm down, nothing to see here” but there’s no projection on what is likely to happen if they up the ante
Date: 7/03/2022 14:45:10
From: Michael V
ID: 1857340
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Russian forces made ‘minimal ground advances’, British intelligence says
The UK’s ministry of defence has just released its latest intelligence report, speculating that Russian forces made “minimal ground advances” over the weekend.
Russian forces probably made minimal ground advances over the weekend. It is highly unlikely that Russia has successfully achieved its planned objectives to date.”
The ministry notes a “high level of Russian air and artillery strikes” have continued to hit military and civilian sites in Ukrainian cities over the past 24 hours.
“Recent strikes have targeted Kharkiv, Mykolaiv and Chernihiv, and been particularly heavy in Mariupol,” the report added.
Guardian Live
it just seems so wearing that the reporting is always “they haven’t fucked everything yet, calm down, nothing to see here” but there’s no projection on what is likely to happen if they up the ante
From:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/russia-ukraine-war-invasion-live-updates-march-7/100887258
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Ukrainian journalist Fedir Sydoruk is based in Kyiv and has told the ABC News Daily podcast the number of civilian casualties will rise dramatically in the week ahead, as the Russian army shifts tactics.
“I think that it will be a lot harder this week because has understood this is not a Blitzkrieg,” Sydoruk said.
“This will not be fast, this will not be bloodless, this is not a walk in the park — this is where they get killed.
“So they will change their tactics, and they will start levelling everything in their sight — levelling it to the ground, destroying everything.
“This is the only tactic they know, we remember in Chechnya how they won the second Chechen War — they just levelled all the cities to the ground, that’s how they do things.
“So this is what they’ll do here, they’ll bring more missiles, bigger missiles, more powerful missiles, shooting at Ukrainian cities, killing everyone and everything. And there’ll be millions more people trying to flee to the west. It’s just a catastrophe, basically.”
Date: 7/03/2022 15:35:51
From: Michael V
ID: 1857348
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
#UkraineFacts
By the International Fact-checking Network Signatories
———————————————————————————————————————-
https://ukrainefacts.org/
Date: 7/03/2022 16:00:14
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857351
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
#UkraineFacts
By the International Fact-checking Network Signatories
———————————————————————————————————————-
https://ukrainefacts.org/
That site appears to be completely laughable.
According to their map, Russia has not circulated any disinformation about the war.
Date: 7/03/2022 16:26:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857354
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
#UkraineFacts
By the International Fact-checking Network Signatories
———————————————————————————————————————-
https://ukrainefacts.org/
That site appears to be completely laughable.
According to their map, Russia has not circulated any disinformation about the war.
neither has Ukraine though
Date: 7/03/2022 16:28:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857355
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
Labor Party Propaganda Apparatus Your ABC Screams Support For Nuclear Proliferation
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/ukraine-nuclear-war-threat-protects-russia-from-opposition/100882002
The lesson of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is the possession alone of nuclear weapons offers those countries that have them virtual immunity from an effective military response.
recent history proves ownership of the means to destroy entire cities, if not countries, really is a protection against meaningful opposition
Russia-Ukraine war live updates: Volodymyr Zelenskyy promises ‘day of judgement’ as Russian forces tighten grip on captured nuclear power plant

Another Blast From The Future Past
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/rare-joint-statement-russia-china-britain-us-france-nuclear-war/100736840
Rare joint statement from Russia, China, Britain, US and France says ‘nuclear war cannot be won’
The statement came amid increased geopolitical tensions between Moscow and Western nations over concerns about Russia’s military build-up near neighbouring Ukraine. Moscow says it can move its army around its own territory as it deems necessary. US President Joe Biden told his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin last week that a possible move on Ukraine would draw sanctions and an increased US presence in Europe, where tensions are high after Russia’s military build-up at the border.
Date: 7/03/2022 16:31:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857357
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
#UkraineFacts
By the International Fact-checking Network Signatories
———————————————————————————————————————-
https://ukrainefacts.org/
That site appears to be completely laughable.
According to their map, Russia has not circulated any disinformation about the war.
neither has Ukraine though
According to Russian state media, there is no war in Ukraine, no invasion, no bombing.
They’ve just sent troops in to arrest some Nazis and drug addicts who’ve taken over the government, against the wishes of the Ukrainian people.
These kind of mammoth lies are circulated 24/7 on Russian media and they’re not even mentioned on that site.
Date: 7/03/2022 16:36:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857359
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
That site appears to be completely laughable.
According to their map, Russia has not circulated any disinformation about the war.
neither has Ukraine though
According to Russian state media, there is no war in Ukraine, no invasion, no bombing.
They’ve just sent troops in to arrest some Nazis and drug addicts who’ve taken over the government, against the wishes of the Ukrainian people.
These kind of mammoth lies are circulated 24/7 on Russian media and they’re not even mentioned on that site.
Yes, we have no doubt that both countries immediately involved in the fracas have spread misinformation and it is not flagged on their map. We didn’t create it so we can’t really say what their basis for that is.
Maybe it’s their convenient limitation to “pieces” of disinformation, whereas a große Lüge either (1) goes without saying or (2) is something they can’t even begin to address.
—
There’s also
Currently only disinformation circulating in two or more countries is shown.
but that seems to more refer to whether they actually check it.
Date: 7/03/2022 16:43:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857362
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
neither has Ukraine though
According to Russian state media, there is no war in Ukraine, no invasion, no bombing.
They’ve just sent troops in to arrest some Nazis and drug addicts who’ve taken over the government, against the wishes of the Ukrainian people.
These kind of mammoth lies are circulated 24/7 on Russian media and they’re not even mentioned on that site.
Yes, we have no doubt that both countries immediately involved in the fracas have spread misinformation and it is not flagged on their map. We didn’t create it so we can’t really say what their basis for that is.
Maybe it’s their convenient limitation to “pieces” of disinformation, whereas a große Lüge either (1) goes without saying or (2) is something they can’t even begin to address.
—
There’s also
Currently only disinformation circulating in two or more countries is shown.
but that seems to more refer to whether they actually check it.
The Russian bullshit would presumably also be circulating in Belarus and Syria, amongst others.
Date: 7/03/2022 17:00:08
From: Michael V
ID: 1857365
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
#UkraineFacts
By the International Fact-checking Network Signatories
———————————————————————————————————————-
https://ukrainefacts.org/
That site appears to be completely laughable.
According to their map, Russia has not circulated any disinformation about the war.
The map is about where the disinformation was debunked.
Date: 7/03/2022 17:02:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857366
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
#UkraineFacts
By the International Fact-checking Network Signatories
———————————————————————————————————————-
https://ukrainefacts.org/
That site appears to be completely laughable.
According to their map, Russia has not circulated any disinformation about the war.
The map is about where the disinformation was debunked.
So no-one in any country has debunked Russia’s avalanche of lies?
Date: 7/03/2022 17:02:45
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1857367
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Ukrainians are putting up a spiffing resistance.
Gordon Bennet it’s a damn sight better than our chaps put up in Singapore.
Gin and tonic all round Smithers.
Date: 7/03/2022 17:11:19
From: Michael V
ID: 1857369
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
That site appears to be completely laughable.
According to their map, Russia has not circulated any disinformation about the war.
The map is about where the disinformation was debunked.
So no-one in any country has debunked Russia’s avalanche of lies?
Its not about where misinformation originated.
Date: 7/03/2022 17:17:20
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1857371
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The cold eyed unblinking Putin might get desperate.
I don’t know where the Doomsday clock is at the moment but I’d be moving it closer to midnight.
Date: 7/03/2022 17:30:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857376
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
The map is about where the disinformation was debunked.
So no-one in any country has debunked Russia’s avalanche of lies?
Its not about where misinformation originated.
Have a look at the column on the right. There is no mention of any of the Russian misinformation.
That’s the point I’m making.
Date: 7/03/2022 17:35:00
From: Michael V
ID: 1857378
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
So no-one in any country has debunked Russia’s avalanche of lies?
Its not about where misinformation originated.
Have a look at the column on the right. There is no mention of any of the Russian misinformation.
That’s the point I’m making.
Please read the caption for the map, which is what the conversation was originally about.
Are there any International Fact-checking Network Signatories in Russia?
Date: 7/03/2022 17:37:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857380
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Its not about where misinformation originated.
Have a look at the column on the right. There is no mention of any of the Russian misinformation.
That’s the point I’m making.
Please read the caption for the map, which is what the conversation was originally about.
Are there any International Fact-checking Network Signatories in Russia?
Why do they have to be in Russia to debunk Russian lies?
Date: 7/03/2022 17:44:32
From: Michael V
ID: 1857382
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Have a look at the column on the right. There is no mention of any of the Russian misinformation.
That’s the point I’m making.
Please read the caption for the map, which is what the conversation was originally about.
Are there any International Fact-checking Network Signatories in Russia?
Why do they have to be in Russia to debunk Russian lies?
sigh
PLEASE reread the caption for the map, pasted below (my highlights):
“This map shows where disinformation about Ukraine’s invasion has circulated and has been debunked by IFCN Signatories.
Countries █ in shades of red represent the amount of disinformation that has been identified and debunked by national fact-checkers in each country.
When you click on a piece of disinformation, countries in which that hoax has circulated highligh █ in blue and you can access each country’s debunking in its language below
When you click on a country you can see which disinformation has been identified and fact-checked in that country and access the national fact-checker’s articles in their language.”
Date: 7/03/2022 17:47:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857383
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Please read the caption for the map, which is what the conversation was originally about.
Are there any International Fact-checking Network Signatories in Russia?
Why do they have to be in Russia to debunk Russian lies?
sigh
PLEASE reread the caption for the map, pasted below (my highlights):
“This map shows where disinformation about Ukraine’s invasion has circulated and has been debunked by IFCN Signatories.
Countries █ in shades of red represent the amount of disinformation that has been identified and debunked by national fact-checkers in each country.
When you click on a piece of disinformation, countries in which that hoax has circulated highligh █ in blue and you can access each country’s debunking in its language below
When you click on a country you can see which disinformation has been identified and fact-checked in that country and access the national fact-checker’s articles in their language.”
As a Ukraine war fact-checking site it’s of very little value, if Putin’s endless lies are simply ignored.
Russians could look up that site and feel reassured that their media are giving accurate information.
Date: 7/03/2022 17:57:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857385
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Why do they have to be in Russia to debunk Russian lies?
sigh
PLEASE reread the caption for the map, pasted below (my highlights):
“This map shows where disinformation about Ukraine’s invasion has circulated and has been debunked by IFCN Signatories.
Countries █ in shades of red represent the amount of disinformation that has been identified and debunked by national fact-checkers in each country.
When you click on a piece of disinformation, countries in which that hoax has circulated highligh █ in blue and you can access each country’s debunking in its language below
When you click on a country you can see which disinformation has been identified and fact-checked in that country and access the national fact-checker’s articles in their language.”
As a Ukraine war fact-checking site it’s of very little value, if Putin’s endless lies are simply ignored.
Russians could look up that site and feel reassured that their media are giving accurate information.
you’d think that in an information war, the countries with the most disinformation and debunking would be those involved
just sayin’
Date: 7/03/2022 18:06:05
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1857388
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
India got most disinformation.
Australia got the least.
Thinks the whole concept might be disinformation.
Can’t trust anyone anymore, assuming you ever could.
Date: 7/03/2022 18:08:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1857390
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Why do they have to be in Russia to debunk Russian lies?
sigh
PLEASE reread the caption for the map, pasted below (my highlights):
“This map shows where disinformation about Ukraine’s invasion has circulated and has been debunked by IFCN Signatories.
Countries █ in shades of red represent the amount of disinformation that has been identified and debunked by national fact-checkers in each country.
When you click on a piece of disinformation, countries in which that hoax has circulated highligh █ in blue and you can access each country’s debunking in its language below
When you click on a country you can see which disinformation has been identified and fact-checked in that country and access the national fact-checker’s articles in their language.”
As a Ukraine war fact-checking site it’s of very little value, if Putin’s endless lies are simply ignored.
Russians could look up that site and feel reassured that their media are giving accurate information.
Well, in future, I probably shouldn’t put up information about people who are doing something.
I know I can do nothing.
Date: 7/03/2022 18:09:31
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1857391
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
India got most disinformation.
Australia got the least.
Thinks the whole concept might be disinformation.
Can’t trust anyone anymore, assuming you ever could.
I read somewhere that the facebook sites that were busy organising the Aussie freedom protests were in Bangladesh.
Date: 7/03/2022 18:18:20
From: Michael V
ID: 1857392
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
PermeateFree said:
India got most disinformation.
Australia got the least.
Thinks the whole concept might be disinformation.
Can’t trust anyone anymore, assuming you ever could.
I read somewhere that the facebook sites that were busy organising the Aussie freedom protests were in Bangladesh.
Me, too.
Date: 7/03/2022 18:21:17
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1857393
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
sarahs mum said:
PermeateFree said:
India got most disinformation.
Australia got the least.
Thinks the whole concept might be disinformation.
Can’t trust anyone anymore, assuming you ever could.
I read somewhere that the facebook sites that were busy organising the Aussie freedom protests were in Bangladesh.
Me, too.
Probably cheaper to organise there than in India.
Date: 7/03/2022 18:50:49
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1857396
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://theaimn.com/the-ukraine-war-and-the-good-refugee/
Link
Date: 7/03/2022 18:59:45
From: dv
ID: 1857397
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

T&P
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/07/britains-private-schools-face-funding-shortfall-sanctions-wealthy/
Date: 7/03/2022 19:07:49
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1857398
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
T&P
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/07/britains-private-schools-face-funding-shortfall-sanctions-wealthy/
won’t somebody think of the children?
Date: 7/03/2022 22:02:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857447
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
oh well at least SlowMo has fallen in behind Europe to recognise who the New Global Hegemon is
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/scott-morrison-urges-china-to-condemn-russia/100888456
supposedly
Date: 7/03/2022 22:07:00
From: party_pants
ID: 1857450
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
oh well at least SlowMo has fallen in behind Europe to recognise who the New Global Hegemon is
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/scott-morrison-urges-china-to-condemn-russia/100888456
supposedly
There is no new global hegemon. There is still the United States. It depends on how much they want to use it.
Date: 7/03/2022 22:12:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857453
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
oh well at least SlowMo has fallen in behind Europe to recognise who the New Global Hegemon is
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/scott-morrison-urges-china-to-condemn-russia/100888456
supposedly
There is no new global hegemon. There is still the United States. It depends on how much they want to use it.
¿ so Marketing is lying again ?
¿ for political expediency ?
The Prime Minister has declared China has more power than any other country to halt Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as the war in eastern Europe continues to intensify.
imagine that
China is not the only country that has refused to isolate Russia over the invasion — India has also refrained from directly criticising Moscow, and has not joined international sanctions targeting Russian leaders and financial institutions. But when pressed on India’s position late last week, Mr Morrison said he “certainly wouldn’t put them in the same category as China, not even remotely”.
Date: 7/03/2022 22:14:22
From: dv
ID: 1857454
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
oh well at least SlowMo has fallen in behind Europe to recognise who the New Global Hegemon is
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/scott-morrison-urges-china-to-condemn-russia/100888456
supposedly
There is no new global hegemon. There is still the United States. It depends on how much they want to use it.
¿ so Marketing is lying again ?
¿ for political expediency ?
The Prime Minister has declared China has more power than any other country to halt Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as the war in eastern Europe continues to intensify.
imagine that
China is not the only country that has refused to isolate Russia over the invasion — India has also refrained from directly criticising Moscow, and has not joined international sanctions targeting Russian leaders and financial institutions. But when pressed on India’s position late last week, Mr Morrison said he “certainly wouldn’t put them in the same category as China, not even remotely”.
It’s fair to say that trade with China is much more important than trade with India as far as Russia is concerned. If the OECD plus China blocks trade with Russia they are pretty fucked.
Date: 7/03/2022 22:19:06
From: party_pants
ID: 1857457
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
oh well at least SlowMo has fallen in behind Europe to recognise who the New Global Hegemon is
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-07/scott-morrison-urges-china-to-condemn-russia/100888456
supposedly
There is no new global hegemon. There is still the United States. It depends on how much they want to use it.
¿ so Marketing is lying again ?
¿ for political expediency ?
The Prime Minister has declared China has more power than any other country to halt Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as the war in eastern Europe continues to intensify.
imagine that
China is not the only country that has refused to isolate Russia over the invasion — India has also refrained from directly criticising Moscow, and has not joined international sanctions targeting Russian leaders and financial institutions. But when pressed on India’s position late last week, Mr Morrison said he “certainly wouldn’t put them in the same category as China, not even remotely”.
China has influence over Russia, but not power.
China were waiting to see hoe the rest of the world would react. Then go ahead with their own war against Taiwan. Russia needs to be economically destroyed, if only to deter China from following the same path.
China are on the oath to ruin with the next 20 years anyway. We have already reached Peak China. It is all downhill for them from here.
Date: 7/03/2022 22:21:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857459
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
It’s fair to say that trade with China is much more important than trade with India as far as Russia is concerned. If the OECD plus China blocks trade with Russia they are pretty fucked.
Surely they are fucked anyway, we mean, with an economy the size of Australia do any of us really consider that Australia could just send a few pieces over somewhere and execute a neat little landgrab¿
Would it be simple enough for CHINA to turn off the economic tap and fully distance themselves from this little scuffle, or might they actually not want to get dragged into conflicts andor taunt what seems like a violent sibling who might turn around and murder you in your sleep¿
Date: 7/03/2022 22:24:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857464
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
China has influence over Russia, but not power.
China were waiting to see hoe the rest of the world would react. Then go ahead with their own war against Taiwan. Russia needs to be economically destroyed, if only to deter China from following the same path.
China are on the oath to ruin with the next 20 years anyway. We have already reached Peak China. It is all downhill for them from here.
But Ukraine didn’t bomb Donbas.
More importantly though, doesn’t that mean we should just dismiss the Marketing bullshit as a waste of time and take the correct strategy of ignoring the declining fuckers¿
Date: 7/03/2022 22:24:57
From: sibeen
ID: 1857465
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
It’s fair to say that trade with China is much more important than trade with India as far as Russia is concerned. If the OECD plus China blocks trade with Russia they are pretty fucked.
Surely they are fucked anyway, we mean, with an economy the size of Australia do any of us really consider that Australia could just send a few pieces over somewhere and execute a neat little landgrab¿
We’ve had our eyes on NZ for quite a while.
Date: 7/03/2022 22:26:29
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1857466
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
It’s fair to say that trade with China is much more important than trade with India as far as Russia is concerned. If the OECD plus China blocks trade with Russia they are pretty fucked.
Surely they are fucked anyway, we mean, with an economy the size of Australia do any of us really consider that Australia could just send a few pieces over somewhere and execute a neat little landgrab¿
We’ve had our eyes on NZ for quite a while.
we had it then we lost it.
Date: 7/03/2022 22:27:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857467
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
It’s fair to say that trade with China is much more important than trade with India as far as Russia is concerned. If the OECD plus China blocks trade with Russia they are pretty fucked.
Surely they are fucked anyway, we mean, with an economy the size of Australia do any of us really consider that Australia could just send a few pieces over somewhere and execute a neat little landgrab¿
We’ve had our eyes on NZ for quite a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUYbI64QHI

Date: 7/03/2022 22:29:19
From: Kingy
ID: 1857469
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bogsnorkler said:
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:
Surely they are fucked anyway, we mean, with an economy the size of Australia do any of us really consider that Australia could just send a few pieces over somewhere and execute a neat little landgrab¿
We’ve had our eyes on NZ for quite a while.
we had it then we lost it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Wars
Date: 7/03/2022 22:56:05
From: Kingy
ID: 1857483
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
China were waiting to see ho(w) the rest of the world would react. Then go ahead with their own war against Taiwan. Russia needs to be economically destroyed, if only to deter China from following the same path.
This one^
China is waiting. Nukes destabilise the chess board. China is slowly invading the South China Sea, and uses the ratchet to slowly take over land, and bribe smaller countries.
Rock is hard, but water is patient.
Date: 7/03/2022 23:17:29
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857486
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A couple of days ago, the Ukrainians said they were going on the front foot and it looks like they have done just that. The last 24 hours has been quite interesting.
They’ve recaptured the city of Chuhuiv, and have killed a couple of high ranking Russian commanders.
“A video that is claimed to show Ukrainian Forces using Multiple Launch Rocket Systems to Sink a Russian Project 22160 Patrol Ship specifically the “Vasily Bykov” off the Coast of Odessa earlier tonight.”
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1500759177454628864
“Ukrainian soldiers shelled the Chornobaivka airfield near Kherson. Thirty enemy helicopters were destroyed, as well as manpower and equipment,” the statement said.
Over the past day, on approaches to Mykolaiv, three enemy convoys were destroyed, the Ukrainian defenders seized trophies, a large number of ammunition, wheeled equipment, and seven D-20 howitzers.”
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3422522-over-30-enemy-helicopters-destroyed-in-kherson-region-overnight.html
It would be beautifully ironic if the captured howitzers were used in the shelling.
There are reports that one of the Russian’s fancy new destroyers (The “Vasily Bykov”) has been sunk, and 30 helicopters have been destroyed at Chornobaivka airfield. The article mentions that the mob who shelled the airport had taken out several convoys in the earlier days and had captured seven D-20 Howitzers. It would be ironic if those
Date: 8/03/2022 11:38:01
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857606
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Another Russian general bites the dust:
Russian generals killed in fighting, reports claim
A senior Russian general has been killed in fighting in Kharkiv, according to Ukraine’s defence ministry.
The ministry tweeted on Monday that its forces had killed Maj Gen Vitaly Gerasimov. He is believed to have been first deputy commander of Russia’s 41st army.
It follows reports that another senior Russian commander was killed in Ukraine last week.
Maj Gen Andrei Sukhovetsky, commander of an airborne division, was killed in fighting on 28 February, an officers’ organisation in Russia reported, according to Newsweek. Multiple other reports also say Sukhovetsky, who was also said to have been a special forces commander and Syria veteran, was killed by a Ukrainian sniper.
Guardian Live
Date: 8/03/2022 11:43:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1857613
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
What a clusterfuck it is.
The real threat exists of a full scale war if NATO or the West gets involved.
Not sure what information Russia has on Ukraine forces but anyone with Russian planes could strip off identification and use them to enforce a non fly zone (assuming they want to)
Date: 8/03/2022 11:47:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1857614
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
What a clusterfuck it is.
The real threat exists of a full scale war if NATO or the West gets involved.
Not sure what information Russia has on Ukraine forces but anyone with Russian planes could strip off identification and use them to enforce a non fly zone (assuming they want to)
Gets awkward when one gets shot down, and it’s found that it had an American/German/Polish/whatever pilot. Especially if that pilot is identified as a member of their country’s armed forces.
Date: 8/03/2022 11:53:43
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857618
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
What a clusterfuck it is.
The real threat exists of a full scale war if NATO or the West gets involved.
Not sure what information Russia has on Ukraine forces but anyone with Russian planes could strip off identification and use them to enforce a non fly zone (assuming they want to)
It looks like Russia is desperate for a peace deal with Ukraine. I wonder how far Ukraine will push the deal, especially now that they seem to have the upper hand.
In other news, the Ruskies’ secure phone system doesn’t appear to work in the Ukraine since they took out all the local 3G/4G systems so there are limited secure comms channels back to the motherland. It was an unsecured channel that revealed the death of Major General Vitaly Gerasimov, chief of staff of the 41 Army.
I’m guessing the invasion goes bad, which brings the bosses in to “get shit happening”, just as the Ukrainians get resupplied with stingers and start taking out those bosses.
Date: 8/03/2022 11:54:10
From: Cymek
ID: 1857619
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
What a clusterfuck it is.
The real threat exists of a full scale war if NATO or the West gets involved.
Not sure what information Russia has on Ukraine forces but anyone with Russian planes could strip off identification and use them to enforce a non fly zone (assuming they want to)
Gets awkward when one gets shot down, and it’s found that it had an American/German/Polish/whatever pilot. Especially if that pilot is identified as a member of their country’s armed forces.
There is that, could they use the Manuel defence

Date: 8/03/2022 12:16:49
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857623
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
That Zelenskiy is a slick operator.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1500985658646609927
Date: 8/03/2022 12:21:28
From: Cymek
ID: 1857624
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Besides people continuing to not die (assuming Russian keeps it’s word) Ukraine is going to get a really poor deal out of a ceasefire.
The nation will have to rebuild, become militarily weaker, lose territory, not be allowed to join NATO, not sure if you’d want to accept
Date: 8/03/2022 14:31:38
From: Michael V
ID: 1857695
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/former-mi6-chief-says-russian-invasion-ukraine-not-sustainable/100889862
Date: 8/03/2022 14:37:08
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1857705
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/former-mi6-chief-says-russian-invasion-ukraine-not-sustainable/100889862
Much the same as my thoughts.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:43:36
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1857712
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/former-mi6-chief-says-russian-invasion-ukraine-not-sustainable/100889862
Much the same as my thoughts.
>>>>But even if the Ukraine invasion goes badly, Mr Putin may stay in power, he added.
“If you’re familiar with the Kremlin, and the way that that functions, there’s a very, very tight group around Putin. I don’t think he’s going to be easily deposed,” he said.
“Unless General Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the general staff, suddenly were to say, ‘This is too much, that guy’s out of control’. But I think this is unlikely.”
It depends on how pissed off the Russians get and how much someone else wants power.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:43:51
From: Michael V
ID: 1857713
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/former-mi6-chief-says-russian-invasion-ukraine-not-sustainable/100889862
Much the same as my thoughts.
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:46:43
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1857717
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/former-mi6-chief-says-russian-invasion-ukraine-not-sustainable/100889862
Much the same as my thoughts.
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
I don’t think even he is crazy/stupid enough for that.
But don’t quote me on that.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:47:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1857718
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/former-mi6-chief-says-russian-invasion-ukraine-not-sustainable/100889862
Much the same as my thoughts.
>>>>But even if the Ukraine invasion goes badly, Mr Putin may stay in power, he added.
“If you’re familiar with the Kremlin, and the way that that functions, there’s a very, very tight group around Putin. I don’t think he’s going to be easily deposed,” he said.
“Unless General Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the general staff, suddenly were to say, ‘This is too much, that guy’s out of control’. But I think this is unlikely.”
It depends on how pissed off the Russians get and how much someone else wants power.
I was thinking supposedly they have sent mercenaries after the Ukraine president could most of the rest of the world have Kickstarter campaign to do the same to Putin
Date: 8/03/2022 14:48:54
From: dv
ID: 1857720
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
sarahs mum said:
Spiny Norman said:
Much the same as my thoughts.
>>>>But even if the Ukraine invasion goes badly, Mr Putin may stay in power, he added.
“If you’re familiar with the Kremlin, and the way that that functions, there’s a very, very tight group around Putin. I don’t think he’s going to be easily deposed,” he said.
“Unless General Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the general staff, suddenly were to say, ‘This is too much, that guy’s out of control’. But I think this is unlikely.”
It depends on how pissed off the Russians get and how much someone else wants power.
I was thinking supposedly they have sent mercenaries after the Ukraine president could most of the rest of the world have Kickstarter campaign to do the same to Putin
I was going to say “wasn’t he just killed?” but that was Vitaly Gerasimov. I wonder if they are related.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:49:40
From: furious
ID: 1857721
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
Spiny Norman said:
Much the same as my thoughts.
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
I don’t think even he is crazy/stupid enough for that.
But don’t quote me on that.
I reckon if Kyiv keeps holding out and the President was still there he would be tempted to drop a low power nuke to try and force a surrender…
Date: 8/03/2022 14:52:29
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1857725
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
I don’t think even he is crazy/stupid enough for that.
But don’t quote me on that.
I reckon if Kyiv keeps holding out and the President was still there he would be tempted to drop a low power nuke to try and force a surrender…
And about a hundred of the same thing would drop on Putin’s head about 20 – 30 minutes later.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:52:51
From: dv
ID: 1857726
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mfkrs on Wikipedia objecting to the invasion being called an Invasion in the article title.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:54:38
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1857729
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
I don’t think even he is crazy/stupid enough for that.
But don’t quote me on that.
I reckon if Kyiv keeps holding out and the President was still there he would be tempted to drop a low power nuke to try and force a surrender…
That would be a tragic outcome, I’d be very interested in understanding how NATO would respond to that
Date: 8/03/2022 14:55:28
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1857731
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
furious said:
Spiny Norman said:
I don’t think even he is crazy/stupid enough for that.
But don’t quote me on that.
I reckon if Kyiv keeps holding out and the President was still there he would be tempted to drop a low power nuke to try and force a surrender…
And about a hundred of the same thing would drop on Putin’s head about 20 – 30 minutes later.
I’m not convinced this would happen
Date: 8/03/2022 14:55:43
From: Cymek
ID: 1857732
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
mfkrs on Wikipedia objecting to the invasion being called an Invasion in the article title.
Too harsh ?
Date: 8/03/2022 14:56:58
From: furious
ID: 1857733
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
furious said:
Spiny Norman said:
I don’t think even he is crazy/stupid enough for that.
But don’t quote me on that.
I reckon if Kyiv keeps holding out and the President was still there he would be tempted to drop a low power nuke to try and force a surrender…
And about a hundred of the same thing would drop on Putin’s head about 20 – 30 minutes later.
I don’t think they would. When push comes to shove, would NATO risk MAD over a non member country?
Date: 8/03/2022 14:57:08
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857734
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Spiny Norman said:
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/former-mi6-chief-says-russian-invasion-ukraine-not-sustainable/100889862
Much the same as my thoughts.
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
The world has narrowly averted nuclear war twice that we know of due to a single person saying “No” – once when Carter refused to press the button when his advisors were recommending he do so, and again in 1983 when Stanislav Petrov twice ignored an early warning system indicating that US nukes were inbound.
Ignoring the doubts around the operational status of both the Russian nukes and trigger system, there is still the human part of the system that occasionally has a conscious.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:58:49
From: Cymek
ID: 1857736
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Spiny Norman said:
furious said:
I reckon if Kyiv keeps holding out and the President was still there he would be tempted to drop a low power nuke to try and force a surrender…
And about a hundred of the same thing would drop on Putin’s head about 20 – 30 minutes later.
I don’t think they would. When push comes to shove, would NATO risk MAD over a non member country?
Come to Europe we can’t get our shit together could be a tourist advertisement
Date: 8/03/2022 14:59:03
From: dv
ID: 1857738
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The 2020 doctrine presents four scenarios which might justify the use of Russian nuclear weapons:
— the use of nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction against Russia or its allies;
— data showing the launch of ballistic missiles aimed at Russia or its allies;
— an attack on critical government or military sites that would undermine the country’s nuclear forces response actions;
— the use of conventional weapons against Russia “when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy”.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:59:12
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857739
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Cymek said:
sarahs mum said:
>>>>But even if the Ukraine invasion goes badly, Mr Putin may stay in power, he added.
“If you’re familiar with the Kremlin, and the way that that functions, there’s a very, very tight group around Putin. I don’t think he’s going to be easily deposed,” he said.
“Unless General Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the general staff, suddenly were to say, ‘This is too much, that guy’s out of control’. But I think this is unlikely.”
It depends on how pissed off the Russians get and how much someone else wants power.
I was thinking supposedly they have sent mercenaries after the Ukraine president could most of the rest of the world have Kickstarter campaign to do the same to Putin
I was going to say “wasn’t he just killed?” but that was Vitaly Gerasimov. I wonder if they are related.
I think Cymek is referring to the Chechen mob killed on day two of the war. But they were needing Zelenskiy alive.
Date: 8/03/2022 14:59:46
From: Cymek
ID: 1857740
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
Spiny Norman said:
Much the same as my thoughts.
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
The world has narrowly averted nuclear war twice that we know of due to a single person saying “No” – once when Carter refused to press the button when his advisors were recommending he do so, and again in 1983 when Stanislav Petrov twice ignored an early warning system indicating that US nukes were inbound.
Ignoring the doubts around the operational status of both the Russian nukes and trigger system, there is still the human part of the system that occasionally has a conscious.
If you are going to get killed disobeying an order to launch a nuke is a reason
Date: 8/03/2022 14:59:58
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1857741
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
Spiny Norman said:
Much the same as my thoughts.
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
The world has narrowly averted nuclear war twice that we know of due to a single person saying “No” – once when Carter refused to press the button when his advisors were recommending he do so, and again in 1983 when Stanislav Petrov twice ignored an early warning system indicating that US nukes were inbound.
Ignoring the doubts around the operational status of both the Russian nukes and trigger system, there is still the human part of the system that occasionally has a conscious.
having said that I could totally see Russia using a low yield tactical nuke on a city like Kyiv and “get away with it”.
Date: 8/03/2022 15:01:41
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857742
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
mfkrs on Wikipedia objecting to the invasion being called an Invasion in the article title.
Too harsh ?
I suppose technically, there has been no declaration of war so…
Date: 8/03/2022 15:01:52
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1857743
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
mfkrs on Wikipedia objecting to the invasion being called an Invasion in the article title.
Too harsh ?
nah.
Date: 8/03/2022 15:02:44
From: dv
ID: 1857744
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’m content enough to say that I’m not an expert on warfare or Putin’s mindset but I am hoping there are enough people in the command chain who aren’t tryna die and would intervene to prevent this completely discretionary use of nuclear weapons in an unnecessary invasion that isn’t doing anything to make Russia safer.
Date: 8/03/2022 15:03:29
From: Cymek
ID: 1857745
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
I hope Poo-Tin doesn’t start throwing nukes around.
The world has narrowly averted nuclear war twice that we know of due to a single person saying “No” – once when Carter refused to press the button when his advisors were recommending he do so, and again in 1983 when Stanislav Petrov twice ignored an early warning system indicating that US nukes were inbound.
Ignoring the doubts around the operational status of both the Russian nukes and trigger system, there is still the human part of the system that occasionally has a conscious.
having said that I could totally see Russia using a low yield tactical nuke on a city like Kyiv and “get away with it”.
Плохой наш, Иван, невежественный солдат-крестьянин, пил нелегальную водку и нажимал на кнопку.
Date: 8/03/2022 15:03:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1857746
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Cymek said:
dv said:
mfkrs on Wikipedia objecting to the invasion being called an Invasion in the article title.
Too harsh ?
nah.
It’s not is it
Date: 8/03/2022 15:03:51
From: Cymek
ID: 1857747
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Cymek said:
dv said:
mfkrs on Wikipedia objecting to the invasion being called an Invasion in the article title.
Too harsh ?
nah.
It’s not is it
Date: 8/03/2022 15:04:36
From: Cymek
ID: 1857748
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I’m content enough to say that I’m not an expert on warfare or Putin’s mindset but I am hoping there are enough people in the command chain who aren’t tryna die and would intervene to prevent this completely discretionary use of nuclear weapons in an unnecessary invasion that isn’t doing anything to make Russia safer.
Could break Russia economically
Date: 8/03/2022 20:17:52
From: dv
ID: 1857870
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Medium
Date: 8/03/2022 20:22:01
From: party_pants
ID: 1857872
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Medium
Maybe they mean “Kick Russia out of the WTO”.
Date: 8/03/2022 20:36:51
From: dv
ID: 1857875
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
Medium
Maybe they mean “Kick Russia out of the WTO”.
Maybe they mean let them join and then kick them out just to teach them a lesson
Date: 8/03/2022 20:39:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857878
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
Medium
Maybe they mean “Kick Russia out of the WTO”.
Maybe they mean let them join and then kick them out just to teach them a lesson
Isn’t that the best way, take the application fee and then run with it ¿
Date: 8/03/2022 20:40:26
From: dv
ID: 1857881
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
party_pants said:
Maybe they mean “Kick Russia out of the WTO”.
Maybe they mean let them join and then kick them out just to teach them a lesson
Isn’t that the best way, take the application fee and then run with it ¿
Or just change the name.
Date: 8/03/2022 20:42:10
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1857883
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia’s airliners are mainly leased from the West, from companies who now want them back. Also, the supply of spare parts has ended.
‘No better than North Korea’: Russian aviation faces wipeout
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has resulted in its airlines being banned from European, American and Canadian airspace, left the country with leased aircraft it cannot use, and scuttled aerospace industry partnerships with the West.
Russian citizens won’t be flying to Europe or North America anytime soon, with even flights to friendly countries such as China in doubt due to the international community’s ostracisation of the country’s aviation sector, according to aviation analysts.
“Russia will be the world’s largest country with a developed economy and an aviation industry no better than North Korea’s,” Richard Aboulafia, managing director of Michigan-based AeroDynamic Advisory, told Al Jazeera.
“Aviation sanctions are easy to enforce,” said Aboulafia, who has more than 30 years of experience in the aviation industry. “Airlines can’t fly. They will have to completely redo their aircraft plans, which at the moment, are built on Western technology.”
Full Report
Date: 8/03/2022 20:44:55
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857888
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russia’s airliners are mainly leased from the West, from companies who now want them back. Also, the supply of spare parts has ended.
‘No better than North Korea’: Russian aviation faces wipeout
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has resulted in its airlines being banned from European, American and Canadian airspace, left the country with leased aircraft it cannot use, and scuttled aerospace industry partnerships with the West.
Russian citizens won’t be flying to Europe or North America anytime soon, with even flights to friendly countries such as China in doubt due to the international community’s ostracisation of the country’s aviation sector, according to aviation analysts.
“Russia will be the world’s largest country with a developed economy and an aviation industry no better than North Korea’s,” Richard Aboulafia, managing director of Michigan-based AeroDynamic Advisory, told Al Jazeera.
“Aviation sanctions are easy to enforce,” said Aboulafia, who has more than 30 years of experience in the aviation industry. “Airlines can’t fly. They will have to completely redo their aircraft plans, which at the moment, are built on Western technology.”
Full Report
don’t worry soon the nuclear airbursts should EMP the flights over the rest of the world anyway and then it won’t matter
Date: 8/03/2022 20:46:13
From: sibeen
ID: 1857890
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russia’s airliners are mainly leased from the West, from companies who now want them back. Also, the supply of spare parts has ended.
‘No better than North Korea’: Russian aviation faces wipeout
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has resulted in its airlines being banned from European, American and Canadian airspace, left the country with leased aircraft it cannot use, and scuttled aerospace industry partnerships with the West.
Russian citizens won’t be flying to Europe or North America anytime soon, with even flights to friendly countries such as China in doubt due to the international community’s ostracisation of the country’s aviation sector, according to aviation analysts.
“Russia will be the world’s largest country with a developed economy and an aviation industry no better than North Korea’s,” Richard Aboulafia, managing director of Michigan-based AeroDynamic Advisory, told Al Jazeera.
“Aviation sanctions are easy to enforce,” said Aboulafia, who has more than 30 years of experience in the aviation industry. “Airlines can’t fly. They will have to completely redo their aircraft plans, which at the moment, are built on Western technology.”
Full Report
You can’t be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.
Frank Zappa
Date: 8/03/2022 20:47:57
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1857891
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russia’s airliners are mainly leased from the West, from companies who now want them back. Also, the supply of spare parts has ended.
‘No better than North Korea’: Russian aviation faces wipeout
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has resulted in its airlines being banned from European, American and Canadian airspace, left the country with leased aircraft it cannot use, and scuttled aerospace industry partnerships with the West.
Russian citizens won’t be flying to Europe or North America anytime soon, with even flights to friendly countries such as China in doubt due to the international community’s ostracisation of the country’s aviation sector, according to aviation analysts.
“Russia will be the world’s largest country with a developed economy and an aviation industry no better than North Korea’s,” Richard Aboulafia, managing director of Michigan-based AeroDynamic Advisory, told Al Jazeera.
“Aviation sanctions are easy to enforce,” said Aboulafia, who has more than 30 years of experience in the aviation industry. “Airlines can’t fly. They will have to completely redo their aircraft plans, which at the moment, are built on Western technology.”
Full Report
Pretty much. Aeroflot has got a handful of Russian-built planes, they can probably keep some of those flying most of the time at least.
Date: 8/03/2022 21:03:45
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857901
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Reports of excess radioactivity in Ukraine.
It appears that russian artillery has hit some of the storage areas around Chernobyl.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-agency-reports-higher-chernobyl-radiation-levels-due-heavy-2022-02-25/
Lies
Date: 8/03/2022 21:19:52
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1857914
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Kingy said:
Reports of excess radioactivity in Ukraine.
It appears that russian artillery has hit some of the storage areas around Chernobyl.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-agency-reports-higher-chernobyl-radiation-levels-due-heavy-2022-02-25/
Lies
Do you know what ‘Pravda’ translates as?
Date: 8/03/2022 21:27:02
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857920
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia and ukraine provide lots of food to the world
What happens when all that food, oil and gas stop flowing
What if petrol soars to 10 dollars a gallon in the US ?
What happens when the russisns just sell all that oil, gas and food to the east instead of the west?
Civilisation is a fragile thing
Date: 8/03/2022 21:31:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857925
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
Kingy said:
Reports of excess radioactivity in Ukraine.
It appears that russian artillery has hit some of the storage areas around Chernobyl.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-agency-reports-higher-chernobyl-radiation-levels-due-heavy-2022-02-25/
Lies
Do you know what ‘Pravda’ translates as?
In Portugese, or in Indonesian ¿
Date: 8/03/2022 21:31:30
From: party_pants
ID: 1857926
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Russia and ukraine provide lots of food to the world
What happens when all that food, oil and gas stop flowing
What if petrol soars to 10 dollars a gallon in the US ?
What happens when the russisns just sell all that oil, gas and food to the east instead of the west?
Civilisation is a fragile thing
Western Europe will be fine. It is Asia, Africa and the middle east that will suffer.
Date: 8/03/2022 21:31:46
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857927
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
Kingy said:
Reports of excess radioactivity in Ukraine.
It appears that russian artillery has hit some of the storage areas around Chernobyl.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-nuclear-agency-reports-higher-chernobyl-radiation-levels-due-heavy-2022-02-25/
Lies
Do you know what ‘Pravda’ translates as?
https://youtu.be/pDU1R8fLfq0
Date: 8/03/2022 21:35:19
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857931
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-04/big-win-for-russian-wheat-as-china-further-opens-its-market
Date: 8/03/2022 21:36:31
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857932
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/07/we-need-bread-fears-in-middle-east-as-ukraine-russia-war-hits-wheat-imports
Date: 8/03/2022 21:38:01
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857934
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Most likely you’ll see waves of immigrants from north Africa making their way to Britain / Europe
They won’t be going to Russia/ ukraine
Date: 8/03/2022 21:43:14
From: party_pants
ID: 1857936
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/07/we-need-bread-fears-in-middle-east-as-ukraine-russia-war-hits-wheat-imports
China will have a massive shortage of wheat this year after widespread rains and flooding delayed the planting season. They will have trouble importing anything in bulk from Russia by the overland route. Two two’s railway systems are not compatible. China has very very poor domestic freight rail distribution, they have spent all of their money (mostly borrowed money to boot) on building high speed passenger rail instead as a exercise in cock-waving. Overland freight will need to travel by truck along poor roads. It will be hell expensive to move bulk commodities like wheat around by truck.
Date: 8/03/2022 21:44:27
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857937
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I suppose the next target for a drawn out conflict will be bombing the industry that processes the crops, ukraine may well have tens of thousands of fighters but they will all have to be supplied from Western Europe running the gauntlet of Russian bombers.
Maybe the plan is to have a drawn out conflict
Russia sends its food , oil and gas east for top dollar which funds the tank factories, aircraft factories. Ukraine becomes a live fire zone that’s a millstone around the necks of Western countries
Some European countries drop out of the EU and NATO and send their refugees west.
Date: 8/03/2022 21:45:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857939
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/07/we-need-bread-fears-in-middle-east-as-ukraine-russia-war-hits-wheat-imports
China will have a massive shortage of wheat this year after widespread rains and flooding delayed the planting season. They will have trouble importing anything in bulk from Russia by the overland route. Two two’s railway systems are not compatible. China has very very poor domestic freight rail distribution, they have spent all of their money (mostly borrowed money to boot) on building high speed passenger rail instead as a exercise in cock-waving. Overland freight will need to travel by truck along poor roads. It will be hell expensive to move bulk commodities like wheat around by truck.
It be flown to China if need be
Remember – russian oil is cheap
Do a search on what the russians pay for their petrol at the bowser – you will be surprised
Date: 8/03/2022 21:47:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857941
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/07/we-need-bread-fears-in-middle-east-as-ukraine-russia-war-hits-wheat-imports
China will have a massive shortage of wheat this year after widespread rains and flooding delayed the planting season. They will have trouble importing anything in bulk from Russia by the overland route. Two two’s railway systems are not compatible. China has very very poor domestic freight rail distribution, they have spent all of their money (mostly borrowed money to boot) on building high speed passenger rail instead as a exercise in cock-waving. Overland freight will need to travel by truck along poor roads. It will be hell expensive to move bulk commodities like wheat around by truck.
It be flown to China if need be
Remember – russian oil is cheap
Do a search on what the russians pay for their petrol at the bowser – you will be surprised
fk and here we thought dirty ASIANS ate rice
Date: 8/03/2022 21:47:54
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857942
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
They’ve just built a massive bridge between China and Russia in the far east.
Most likely trains can just use this route to supply all along the eastern coast.
Date: 8/03/2022 21:51:45
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857943
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Most likely Russia will put the squeeze on Turkey and stop supplying weapons to ukraine and allow ships through the Strait – or they starve
They tell turkey to pull out of Syria
They tell them to stop feeding weapons to Azerbaijan
But of course, this will be baby steps as the Turkish lira nose dives.
The middle eastern front with syria is reactivated
Date: 8/03/2022 21:52:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857944
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Allegedly, Odessa Opera House, in 1942 and today.

Date: 8/03/2022 21:52:59
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857945
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Inflation in Turkey has increased to a fresh 20-year high, a higher than expected 54.44% for February, as the lira continues to suffer and energy prices climb. Prices of consumer goods rose 4.81% on the previous month, according to the Turkish Statistical Institute on Thursday
No one will be flying to Turkey for tourism because it’s too expensive to fly
Date: 8/03/2022 21:54:25
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857946
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Maybe the squeeze goes on for a few years then China walks into Taiwan??
Date: 8/03/2022 21:56:10
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857948
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Maybe the squeeze goes on for a few years then China walks into Taiwan??
do they produce a lot of wheat
Date: 8/03/2022 21:57:23
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857950
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
wookiemeister said:
Maybe the squeeze goes on for a few years then China walks into Taiwan??
do they produce a lot of wheat
They do
Date: 8/03/2022 22:00:45
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857951
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
wookiemeister said:
Maybe the squeeze goes on for a few years then China walks into Taiwan??
do they produce a lot of wheat
They do
well then we’re just going to can your disinformation and put it where it belongs, instead raising this

Laugh Out Loud
Date: 8/03/2022 22:02:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857953
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
do they produce a lot of wheat
They do
well then we’re just going to can your disinformation and put it where it belongs, instead raising this

Laugh Out Loud
Look I don’t care
This is all a what if… situation. It allows me to evaluate
Date: 8/03/2022 22:07:58
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857956
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
do they produce a lot of wheat
They do
well then we’re just going to can your disinformation and put it where it belongs, instead raising this

Laugh Out Loud
https://twitter.com/i/status/1500962329269211138
Date: 8/03/2022 22:33:56
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857970
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine Invasion Threatens Global Wheat Supply
Russia and Ukraine together produce nearly a quarter of the world’s wheat, and coming disruptions could fuel higher food prices and social unrest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/business/ukraine-russia-wheat-prices.html
Date: 8/03/2022 22:39:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857973
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine Invasion Threatens Global Wheat Supply
Russia and Ukraine together produce nearly a quarter of the world’s wheat, and coming disruptions could fuel higher food prices and social unrest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/business/ukraine-russia-wheat-prices.html
It’ll be good for the farmers.
Date: 8/03/2022 22:41:16
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857974
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine Invasion Threatens Global Wheat Supply
Russia and Ukraine together produce nearly a quarter of the world’s wheat, and coming disruptions could fuel higher food prices and social unrest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/business/ukraine-russia-wheat-prices.html
It’ll be good for the farmers.
here maybe
we need to hold onto
OUR wheat
HERE to keep our prices down instead of exporting
Date: 8/03/2022 22:45:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857977
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Dark Orange said:
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine Invasion Threatens Global Wheat Supply
Russia and Ukraine together produce nearly a quarter of the world’s wheat, and coming disruptions could fuel higher food prices and social unrest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/business/ukraine-russia-wheat-prices.html
It’ll be good for the farmers.
here maybe
we need to hold onto OUR wheat HERE to keep our prices down instead of exporting
oh well at least the people who eat meat won’t be struggling as much
Date: 8/03/2022 22:45:50
From: party_pants
ID: 1857978
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Dark Orange said:
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine Invasion Threatens Global Wheat Supply
Russia and Ukraine together produce nearly a quarter of the world’s wheat, and coming disruptions could fuel higher food prices and social unrest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/business/ukraine-russia-wheat-prices.html
It’ll be good for the farmers.
here maybe
we need to hold onto OUR wheat HERE to keep our prices down instead of exporting
90% of our (WA) wheat is exported. We (WA) will do OK. Supply for the local market will not be a big fraction.
Date: 8/03/2022 22:46:29
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857979
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
wookiemeister said:
Dark Orange said:
It’ll be good for the farmers.
here maybe
we need to hold onto OUR wheat HERE to keep our prices down instead of exporting
oh well at least the people who eat meat won’t be struggling as much
all it all needs to be transported with diesel
Date: 8/03/2022 22:56:08
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857983
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
russia might create a no mans land where no civillians exist – the foreign fighters and ukrainian army and various neo nazi factions will have no human shields
the british won the malaysian conflict with such a tactic against communist insurgents – they cleared out all the villagers and anyone seen in the bush was shot on site because only combatants existed in these places
the wheat production facilities will be bombed on the western side , no oil flows from ukraine.
ukraine becomes a live fire zone, the eastern side of the country remains quiet , the buffer zones have drones that pick off anyone trying to infiltrate
the ukrainians would be better off holing up in the cities to prolong the conflict and drag it out – but by that time there will be no power , water or supplies, they would be encircled with no air power.
the ukrainian side builds trenches and forward positions and lose men slowly from airstrikes, they send drones to bomb the russians – the russians and NATO use ukraine to test and examine what the otherside has. this situation goes on indefinitely .
russia sends all its oil gas food east and receives foreign fighters, foreign currency, supplies. the military machine fires up and thousands of tanks start pouring out of the factories
europe is drained by waves of migrants from the areas of the world with no food.
Date: 8/03/2022 22:56:21
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1857984
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Dark Orange said:
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine Invasion Threatens Global Wheat Supply
Russia and Ukraine together produce nearly a quarter of the world’s wheat, and coming disruptions could fuel higher food prices and social unrest.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/business/ukraine-russia-wheat-prices.html
It’ll be good for the farmers.
here maybe
we need to hold onto OUR wheat HERE to keep our prices down instead of exporting
You want us to force our farmers to sell to us for under market value? That’s not very fair on them.
Date: 8/03/2022 22:58:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857989
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
wookiemeister said:
Dark Orange said:
It’ll be good for the farmers.
here maybe
we need to hold onto OUR wheat HERE to keep our prices down instead of exporting
You want us to force our farmers to sell to us for under market value? That’s not very fair on them.
yes – we all need to eat – we give them aid when things get tough for them, its a reciprocal thing. we all live in the same country
Date: 8/03/2022 22:59:23
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857990
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
wookiemeister said:
Dark Orange said:
It’ll be good for the farmers.
here maybe
we need to hold onto OUR wheat HERE to keep our prices down instead of exporting
You want us to force our farmers to sell to us for under market value? That’s not very fair on them.
maybe we can share the benefits and the wealth by taxing them like we tax mineral exporters miners for the gross grotesque profits made on throwing our natural resources overseas
oh wait
Date: 8/03/2022 23:01:40
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857993
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
the government spends millions supporting the bush with hospitals, ambulance, police etc – i know – i go to these kinds of places
its only fair that food be cheap for us, farming is up and down and it all evens out
if you have food riots in sydney how long do you think any more support will be given to regional areas?
Date: 8/03/2022 23:11:16
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858000
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
at any rate we need to be future proofing ourselves for whatever shock may come
possible transfer of taiwanese technology to australia in the event of a chinese invasion – far from CCP bombers
a hornets nest of SAMs to ward off ICBM attack
rebuilding and supporting food supply chains
flood proofing major roads (concrete underlay and elevated )
bolstering the internet against cyber attack
encouraging people to take up solar in their homes (and battery systems in case of attack on power infrastructure)
Date: 8/03/2022 23:16:18
From: party_pants
ID: 1858003
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
russia might create a no mans land where no civillians exist – the foreign fighters and ukrainian army and various neo nazi factions will have no human shields
the british won the malaysian conflict with such a tactic against communist insurgents – they cleared out all the villagers and anyone seen in the bush was shot on site because only combatants existed in these places
the wheat production facilities will be bombed on the western side , no oil flows from ukraine.
ukraine becomes a live fire zone, the eastern side of the country remains quiet , the buffer zones have drones that pick off anyone trying to infiltrate
the ukrainians would be better off holing up in the cities to prolong the conflict and drag it out – but by that time there will be no power , water or supplies, they would be encircled with no air power.
the ukrainian side builds trenches and forward positions and lose men slowly from airstrikes, they send drones to bomb the russians – the russians and NATO use ukraine to test and examine what the otherside has. this situation goes on indefinitely .
russia sends all its oil gas food east and receives foreign fighters, foreign currency, supplies. the military machine fires up and thousands of tanks start pouring out of the factories
europe is drained by waves of migrants from the areas of the world with no food.
Russia are fucked. Their economy will collapse to less than the Australian economy. They will fall out of the top 15. No nation that (relatively) poor can sustain acting like a superpower. They are fuckeder than fucked Johnny McFuck.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:17:50
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858005
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
russia might create a no mans land where no civillians exist – the foreign fighters and ukrainian army and various neo nazi factions will have no human shields
the british won the malaysian conflict with such a tactic against communist insurgents – they cleared out all the villagers and anyone seen in the bush was shot on site because only combatants existed in these places
the wheat production facilities will be bombed on the western side , no oil flows from ukraine.
ukraine becomes a live fire zone, the eastern side of the country remains quiet , the buffer zones have drones that pick off anyone trying to infiltrate
the ukrainians would be better off holing up in the cities to prolong the conflict and drag it out – but by that time there will be no power , water or supplies, they would be encircled with no air power.
the ukrainian side builds trenches and forward positions and lose men slowly from airstrikes, they send drones to bomb the russians – the russians and NATO use ukraine to test and examine what the otherside has. this situation goes on indefinitely .
russia sends all its oil gas food east and receives foreign fighters, foreign currency, supplies. the military machine fires up and thousands of tanks start pouring out of the factories
europe is drained by waves of migrants from the areas of the world with no food.
Russia are fucked. Their economy will collapse to less than the Australian economy. They will fall out of the top 15. No nation that (relatively) poor can sustain acting like a superpower. They are fuckeder than fucked Johnny McFuck.
we’ll see
if its selling all of its oil , gas and food elsewhere and the west just has lots of refugees, soaring power and fuel prices and food riots ……
i still put my money on the red army
Date: 8/03/2022 23:19:14
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1858006
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
russia might create a no mans land where no civillians exist – the foreign fighters and ukrainian army and various neo nazi factions will have no human shields
the british won the malaysian conflict with such a tactic against communist insurgents – they cleared out all the villagers and anyone seen in the bush was shot on site because only combatants existed in these places
the wheat production facilities will be bombed on the western side , no oil flows from ukraine.
ukraine becomes a live fire zone, the eastern side of the country remains quiet , the buffer zones have drones that pick off anyone trying to infiltrate
the ukrainians would be better off holing up in the cities to prolong the conflict and drag it out – but by that time there will be no power , water or supplies, they would be encircled with no air power.
the ukrainian side builds trenches and forward positions and lose men slowly from airstrikes, they send drones to bomb the russians – the russians and NATO use ukraine to test and examine what the otherside has. this situation goes on indefinitely .
russia sends all its oil gas food east and receives foreign fighters, foreign currency, supplies. the military machine fires up and thousands of tanks start pouring out of the factories
europe is drained by waves of migrants from the areas of the world with no food.
Russia are fucked. Their economy will collapse to less than the Australian economy. They will fall out of the top 15. No nation that (relatively) poor can sustain acting like a superpower. They are fuckeder than fucked Johnny McFuck.
They’re fucken fucked mate, fucken big time. Even if they win, they will lose.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:20:05
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858009
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
we need some kind of bio weapon detection facilty
the yanks were bombing north korea with swine flu during the korean conflict
a foreign power might well try to infect out cattle stock or attack or wheat fields with a blight
(most likely the yanks are already preparing some kind of bio weapon strike on the russian fields but of course, there will be a counter strike on american wheat fields)
Date: 8/03/2022 23:20:24
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858010
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
russia might create a no mans land where no civillians exist – the foreign fighters and ukrainian army and various neo nazi factions will have no human shields
the british won the malaysian conflict with such a tactic against communist insurgents – they cleared out all the villagers and anyone seen in the bush was shot on site because only combatants existed in these places
the wheat production facilities will be bombed on the western side , no oil flows from ukraine.
ukraine becomes a live fire zone, the eastern side of the country remains quiet , the buffer zones have drones that pick off anyone trying to infiltrate
the ukrainians would be better off holing up in the cities to prolong the conflict and drag it out – but by that time there will be no power , water or supplies, they would be encircled with no air power.
the ukrainian side builds trenches and forward positions and lose men slowly from airstrikes, they send drones to bomb the russians – the russians and NATO use ukraine to test and examine what the otherside has. this situation goes on indefinitely .
russia sends all its oil gas food east and receives foreign fighters, foreign currency, supplies. the military machine fires up and thousands of tanks start pouring out of the factories
europe is drained by waves of migrants from the areas of the world with no food.
Russia are fucked. Their economy will collapse to less than the Australian economy. They will fall out of the top 15. No nation that (relatively) poor can sustain acting like a superpower. They are fuckeder than fucked Johnny McFuck.
They’re fucken fucked mate, fucken big time. Even if they win, they will lose.
as i said
we’ll see
Date: 8/03/2022 23:23:33
From: dv
ID: 1858012
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I think the whole thing was engineered by Wetherspoons so that the Ukrainian refugees would plug staff-shortages.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:26:38
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858015
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
the refugees on the boats getting across the channel could do it
its costing the brits billions
there are only more hungry mouths on their way, millions of them
lets say you get 1,000,000 refugees all needing at least say 500 pounds a week to get by thats 500,000,000 a week in aid
thats 26 billion a year – the taxes will need to go up
then keep adding more refugees every year after year
Date: 8/03/2022 23:31:22
From: party_pants
ID: 1858019
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
russia might create a no mans land where no civillians exist – the foreign fighters and ukrainian army and various neo nazi factions will have no human shields
the british won the malaysian conflict with such a tactic against communist insurgents – they cleared out all the villagers and anyone seen in the bush was shot on site because only combatants existed in these places
the wheat production facilities will be bombed on the western side , no oil flows from ukraine.
ukraine becomes a live fire zone, the eastern side of the country remains quiet , the buffer zones have drones that pick off anyone trying to infiltrate
the ukrainians would be better off holing up in the cities to prolong the conflict and drag it out – but by that time there will be no power , water or supplies, they would be encircled with no air power.
the ukrainian side builds trenches and forward positions and lose men slowly from airstrikes, they send drones to bomb the russians – the russians and NATO use ukraine to test and examine what the otherside has. this situation goes on indefinitely .
russia sends all its oil gas food east and receives foreign fighters, foreign currency, supplies. the military machine fires up and thousands of tanks start pouring out of the factories
europe is drained by waves of migrants from the areas of the world with no food.
Russia are fucked. Their economy will collapse to less than the Australian economy. They will fall out of the top 15. No nation that (relatively) poor can sustain acting like a superpower. They are fuckeder than fucked Johnny McFuck.
we’ll see
if its selling all of its oil , gas and food elsewhere and the west just has lots of refugees, soaring power and fuel prices and food riots ……
i still put my money on the red army
Russia can’t sell anybody anything because nobody can pay them. They have been frozen out of central bank transfers all around the world, and their banks have been frozen out of SWIFT.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:32:39
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858020
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
Russia are fucked. Their economy will collapse to less than the Australian economy. They will fall out of the top 15. No nation that (relatively) poor can sustain acting like a superpower. They are fuckeder than fucked Johnny McFuck.
we’ll see
if its selling all of its oil , gas and food elsewhere and the west just has lots of refugees, soaring power and fuel prices and food riots ……
i still put my money on the red army
Russia can’t sell anybody anything because nobody can pay them. They have been frozen out of central bank transfers all around the world, and their banks have been frozen out of SWIFT.
when you are hungry with no power – you will find a way
Date: 8/03/2022 23:33:09
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858021
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
the russian army doesn’t care about our pregnant man emojiis
Date: 8/03/2022 23:33:47
From: party_pants
ID: 1858022
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
the refugees on the boats getting across the channel could do it
its costing the brits billions
there are only more hungry mouths on their way, millions of them
lets say you get 1,000,000 refugees all needing at least say 500 pounds a week to get by thats 500,000,000 a week in aid
thats 26 billion a year – the taxes will need to go up
then keep adding more refugees every year after year
The collapse of the UK would be a good thing. Then they could start again from scratch and try to get it right.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:35:27
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858023
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
the refugees on the boats getting across the channel could do it
its costing the brits billions
there are only more hungry mouths on their way, millions of them
lets say you get 1,000,000 refugees all needing at least say 500 pounds a week to get by thats 500,000,000 a week in aid
thats 26 billion a year – the taxes will need to go up
then keep adding more refugees every year after year
The collapse of the UK would be a good thing. Then they could start again from scratch and try to get it right.
no it will just collapse it won’t get up again
the refugees will then move on like locusts to the next port of call
Date: 8/03/2022 23:38:30
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858024
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.thepointng.com/turkeys-inflation-rate-hits-a-new-20-year-high-of-54/
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/03/how-ukraine-crisis-undermines-ankaras-economic-program
How Ukraine crisis undermines Turkey’s economic program
Ankara’s economic program has hit a deadlock under the impact of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, marked by a stream of fuel hikes, canceled tourism bookings and textile orders, and shortage fears in the food sector.
Russians were the largest group of foreign visitors to Turkey in 2021, numbering some 4.7 million or 19% of all tourists. Ukrainians ranked third after Germans, numbering about 2 million or 8%. Turkey was hoping for $35 billion in tourism revenues this year, up from $24.5 billion in 2021 and on par with its revenues in 2019 before the COVID-19 pandemic hit.
Some representatives of the tourism industry cling to the hope that the Ukraine crisis might be resolved soon and some of the canceled early bookings might be renewed before the high season starts. Though Turkey is not part of the avalanche of Western sanctions targeting Russia, the disruptions in international air traffic and payment systems loom large for tour operators.
its true – when i went to turkey some russians turned up on a boat and flooded the beach dumped all their cigarettes every on the beach and then cleared off
Date: 8/03/2022 23:40:21
From: sibeen
ID: 1858025
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
https://www.thepointng.com/turkeys-inflation-rate-hits-a-new-20-year-high-of-54/
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/03/how-ukraine-crisis-undermines-ankaras-economic-program
How Ukraine crisis undermines Turkey’s economic program
Ankara’s economic program has hit a deadlock under the impact of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, marked by a stream of fuel hikes, canceled tourism bookings and textile orders, and shortage fears in the food sector.
Russians were the largest group of foreign visitors to Turkey in 2021, numbering some 4.7 million or 19% of all tourists. Ukrainians ranked third after Germans, numbering about 2 million or 8%. Turkey was hoping for $35 billion in tourism revenues this year, up from $24.5 billion in 2021 and on par with its revenues in 2019 before the COVID-19 pandemic hit.
Some representatives of the tourism industry cling to the hope that the Ukraine crisis might be resolved soon and some of the canceled early bookings might be renewed before the high season starts. Though Turkey is not part of the avalanche of Western sanctions targeting Russia, the disruptions in international air traffic and payment systems loom large for tour operators.
its true – when i went to turkey some russians turned up on a boat and flooded the beach dumped all their cigarettes every on the beach and then cleared off
Turkey was becoming quite fucked before this latest shit fight began. It certainly won’t help.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:40:38
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858027
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A scare of shortage of sunflower oil has already startled Turkey. The country is the world’s largest importer of sunflower seed, and Russia and Ukraine supply 70% of its sunflower oil imports. At least 15 ships carrying crude sunflower oil to Turkey are reportedly stranded in the Sea of Azov, denied exit by the Russians. In a letter to government authorities earlier this month, the head of Turkey’s Vegetable Oil Industrialists Association called for action to secure the passage of the ships, warning that existing stocks would meet the country’s needs by mid-April at best and that crude sunflower oil prices had jumped to over $2,000 per ton from $1,400 before the war.
Food prices were already skyrocketing in Turkey and have spiked further since the invasion, as have fuel prices, boding further price hikes across the board. Even before the war, Turkey’s annual consumer inflation soared to 54.4% and producer inflation hit 105%, with energy and food prices leading the uptick. Every $10 rise in the price of oil pushes Turkey’s consumer inflation up by 1.5 percentage points, economists calculate.
why should russia let the ships leave if turkey has stopped all russian naval traffic through the bosphorous ?
Date: 8/03/2022 23:40:46
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1858028
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I wonder how the russian people are going with the internet not internetting.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:41:51
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858029
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
wookiemeister said:
https://www.thepointng.com/turkeys-inflation-rate-hits-a-new-20-year-high-of-54/
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/03/how-ukraine-crisis-undermines-ankaras-economic-program
How Ukraine crisis undermines Turkey’s economic program
Ankara’s economic program has hit a deadlock under the impact of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, marked by a stream of fuel hikes, canceled tourism bookings and textile orders, and shortage fears in the food sector.
Russians were the largest group of foreign visitors to Turkey in 2021, numbering some 4.7 million or 19% of all tourists. Ukrainians ranked third after Germans, numbering about 2 million or 8%. Turkey was hoping for $35 billion in tourism revenues this year, up from $24.5 billion in 2021 and on par with its revenues in 2019 before the COVID-19 pandemic hit.
Some representatives of the tourism industry cling to the hope that the Ukraine crisis might be resolved soon and some of the canceled early bookings might be renewed before the high season starts. Though Turkey is not part of the avalanche of Western sanctions targeting Russia, the disruptions in international air traffic and payment systems loom large for tour operators.
its true – when i went to turkey some russians turned up on a boat and flooded the beach dumped all their cigarettes every on the beach and then cleared off
Turkey was becoming quite fucked before this latest shit fight began. It certainly won’t help.
no one likes my assessments because they are like sucking up smelling salts
Date: 8/03/2022 23:41:56
From: dv
ID: 1858030
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
I wonder how the russian people are going with the internet not internetting.
Having checked out wookie’s posts, I am beginning to envy them.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:42:39
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858032
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
I wonder how the russian people are going with the internet not internetting.
i suspect ok
you can use VPNs and proxies to go around internet walls
Date: 8/03/2022 23:43:45
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858033
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sarahs mum said:
I wonder how the russian people are going with the internet not internetting.
Having checked out wookie’s posts, I am beginning to envy them.
i’m off now anyway
need to get my beauty sleep to build my pyramid
Date: 8/03/2022 23:45:52
From: Michael V
ID: 1858035
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
I wonder how the russian people are going with the internet not internetting.
Probably believing whatever Poo-Tin wants them to believe.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:46:16
From: Michael V
ID: 1858036
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sarahs mum said:
I wonder how the russian people are going with the internet not internetting.
Having checked out wookie’s posts, I am beginning to envy them.
LOLOLOLOL
Date: 8/03/2022 23:48:48
From: party_pants
ID: 1858039
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
wookiemeister said:
https://www.thepointng.com/turkeys-inflation-rate-hits-a-new-20-year-high-of-54/
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/03/how-ukraine-crisis-undermines-ankaras-economic-program
How Ukraine crisis undermines Turkey’s economic program
Ankara’s economic program has hit a deadlock under the impact of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, marked by a stream of fuel hikes, canceled tourism bookings and textile orders, and shortage fears in the food sector.
Russians were the largest group of foreign visitors to Turkey in 2021, numbering some 4.7 million or 19% of all tourists. Ukrainians ranked third after Germans, numbering about 2 million or 8%. Turkey was hoping for $35 billion in tourism revenues this year, up from $24.5 billion in 2021 and on par with its revenues in 2019 before the COVID-19 pandemic hit.
Some representatives of the tourism industry cling to the hope that the Ukraine crisis might be resolved soon and some of the canceled early bookings might be renewed before the high season starts. Though Turkey is not part of the avalanche of Western sanctions targeting Russia, the disruptions in international air traffic and payment systems loom large for tour operators.
its true – when i went to turkey some russians turned up on a boat and flooded the beach dumped all their cigarettes every on the beach and then cleared off
Turkey was becoming quite fucked before this latest shit fight began. It certainly won’t help.
Yeah. Dickhead cut interest rates as a measure to control inflation based on some combination of Islamic unease with usury and plain making shit up when confronted with expert advice to the contrary. He had to sack about 3 or 4 central bank governors in a row until he got his wosh. Now the place is fucked and the central bank has no foreign reserves.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:50:06
From: dv
ID: 1858040
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
Russia are fucked. Their economy will collapse to less than the Australian economy. They will fall out of the top 15. No nation that (relatively) poor can sustain acting like a superpower. They are fuckeder than fucked Johnny McFuck.
we’ll see
if its selling all of its oil , gas and food elsewhere and the west just has lots of refugees, soaring power and fuel prices and food riots ……
i still put my money on the red army
Russia can’t sell anybody anything because nobody can pay them. They have been frozen out of central bank transfers all around the world, and their banks have been frozen out of SWIFT.
It also doesn’t have customers to replace Europe’s demand. Its gas exports to China are about 7% of its total gas exports and are about a tenth of its gas exports to Europe. China will be able to drive an extremely good bargain, knowing they basically have a captive seller.
Date: 8/03/2022 23:51:28
From: Michael V
ID: 1858042
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Macron’s photographer shares moments after phone call with Putin
French President Emmanuel Macron spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday, but these photos just released by Macron’s official photographer, Soazig de la Moissonnière, capture the moments after the phone call.
In a statement Élysée Palace said Macron used the call to express his concern about the risks to nuclear safety and called for Russia to respect for international humanitarian law.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Worth a look.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/russia-ukraine-war-invasion-updates-march-8/100890252
Date: 8/03/2022 23:57:06
From: party_pants
ID: 1858048
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
we’ll see
if its selling all of its oil , gas and food elsewhere and the west just has lots of refugees, soaring power and fuel prices and food riots ……
i still put my money on the red army
Russia can’t sell anybody anything because nobody can pay them. They have been frozen out of central bank transfers all around the world, and their banks have been frozen out of SWIFT.
It also doesn’t have customers to replace Europe’s demand. Its gas exports to China are about 7% of its total gas exports and are about a tenth of its gas exports to Europe. China will be able to drive an extremely good bargain, knowing they basically have a captive seller.
If they had the pipeline capacity. Just like rail as mentioned earlier, there isn’t much in the way of gas infrastructure to supply bulk quantities. There was a deal announced in 2021 to start work on building one, but it is years away. China import 7% of their gas from Russia, and 40% from Australia as LNG. We could find any number of buyers for it if China cut back.
Date: 9/03/2022 00:00:28
From: sibeen
ID: 1858049
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
party_pants said:
Russia can’t sell anybody anything because nobody can pay them. They have been frozen out of central bank transfers all around the world, and their banks have been frozen out of SWIFT.
It also doesn’t have customers to replace Europe’s demand. Its gas exports to China are about 7% of its total gas exports and are about a tenth of its gas exports to Europe. China will be able to drive an extremely good bargain, knowing they basically have a captive seller.
If they had the pipeline capacity. Just like rail as mentioned earlier, there isn’t much in the way of gas infrastructure to supply bulk quantities. There was a deal announced in 2021 to start work on building one, but it is years away. China import 7% of their gas from Russia, and 40% from Australia as LNG. We could find any number of buyers for it if China cut back.
Yep. LNG is more expensive than gas over a pipeline, but when you’re one of the only suppliers left standing then it is gravy time.
Date: 9/03/2022 00:01:17
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1858050
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Macron’s photographer shares moments after phone call with Putin
French President Emmanuel Macron spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday, but these photos just released by Macron’s official photographer, Soazig de la Moissonnière, capture the moments after the phone call.
In a statement Élysée Palace said Macron used the call to express his concern about the risks to nuclear safety and called for Russia to respect for international humanitarian law.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Worth a look.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/russia-ukraine-war-invasion-updates-march-8/100890252
He looks rattled.
Date: 9/03/2022 00:16:58
From: Michael V
ID: 1858052
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Michael V said:
Macron’s photographer shares moments after phone call with Putin
French President Emmanuel Macron spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday, but these photos just released by Macron’s official photographer, Soazig de la Moissonnière, capture the moments after the phone call.
In a statement Élysée Palace said Macron used the call to express his concern about the risks to nuclear safety and called for Russia to respect for international humanitarian law.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Worth a look.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/russia-ukraine-war-invasion-updates-march-8/100890252
He looks rattled.
But he is still trying. Good takeaway.
Date: 9/03/2022 00:33:16
From: dv
ID: 1858061
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Goldman Sachs was previously predicting that the Russian economy would grow 2% in the coming financial year but on the basis of sanctions have downgraded this to a 7% forecast decrease in GDP.
Bear in mind the Russian economy still hasn’t recovered from the sanctions in place since the invasion of Crimea. They still aren’t back to the GDP they had in 2014.

Date: 9/03/2022 01:25:31
From: sibeen
ID: 1858072
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Energy giant Shell announces it will sever ties with Russia over invasion of Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/shell-announces-withdrawal-from-russian-oil-and-gas-market/100893940
I suspect that Putin is beginning to personally shit himself.
Date: 9/03/2022 01:57:54
From: dv
ID: 1858073
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 9/03/2022 04:59:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1858074
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Energy giant Shell announces it will sever ties with Russia over invasion of Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/shell-announces-withdrawal-from-russian-oil-and-gas-market/100893940
I suspect that Putin is beginning to personally shit himself.
Russian TV news presenter woman’s voice “ I cant wait for Putin to shit himself level 10”.
Date: 9/03/2022 05:24:45
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858076
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Opinion: Putin needs to watch his back
By Leon Aron
Yesterday at 11:02 a.m. EST
Leon Aron is the author of “Yeltsin.” He is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and is writing a book about Vladimir Putin’s road to Ukraine and beyond.
No matter what the outcome, Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine spells bad news for his regime. Neither taking Kyiv and declaring victory nor beginning peace negotiations will save the Russian president from the serious, if not fatal, domestic repercussions of this war.
As the war drags on, the danger to Putin’s reign will come chiefly from three quarters: the oligarchs, the military and those whom we call “ordinary Russians.” The oligarchs, who stand to lose the most from the West’s sanctions, have been publicly cautious, whatever their true sentiments may be. Cowed since the arrest of Mikhail Khodorkovsky in 2003, some left Russia, while others appear reconciled to (in effect) managing their companies on behalf of the state rather than being their masters. Of the four who have registered concerns so far, three did so from London — Mikhail Fridman, Roman Abramovich and Oleg Tinkov. Only one, Oleg Deripaska, made a comment from Moscow. All point to the tragedy of the war and call for peace without blaming Putin. Only Tinkov explicitly said that he opposes the war.
Throughout Russian history, the military has generally stayed away from politics (with the notable exception of the hapless Decembrist revolt in 1825). Like other autocrats, Putin has had ample opportunity to choose his top officers for loyalty rather than capability. His minister of defense, Sergei Shoigu, has no military background at all: He is a civil engineer who was minister of emergency situations when Putin put him in charge of the country’s armed forces.
Thousands of ordinary Russians have already been arrested for protesting the war. But the majority of citizens are almost certain to rally around Putin at first, as they did after Putin’s first attack on Ukraine in 2014. He is clearly hoping that this effect will last until the March 2024 presidential election, when, at 71, he will likely try to embark on a presidency for life. It is impossible to predict when the memories of the Soviet Union’s quagmire in Afghanistan — the zinc-lined coffins and the unmarked graves — will result in resentment, then anger, then mass protests.
It is for just such an eventuality that Putin set up the national guard, under his former bodyguard Viktor Zolotov, in 2016. Borrowing from the police and entirely absorbing the former special riot troops (known as the OMON), the guard, which in the past six years has grown to an estimated 200,000 to 400,000 men, is supposed to be utterly loyal to the Kremlin. However, it is one thing to bash the heads of students in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and another to shoot at the mothers of soldiers killed in Ukraine. If the guardsmen hesitate, the military will not come to Putin’s rescue, while the oligarchs might be emboldened enough to donate to the protesters, as their Ukrainian counterparts did during the Orange Revolution of 2004 and the Maidan Revolution of 2014.
The Russian national tradition is unforgiving of military setbacks. Virtually every major defeat has resulted in radical change. The Crimean War (1853-1856) precipitated Emperor Alexander II’s liberal revolution from above. The Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905) brought about the First Russian Revolution. The catastrophe of World War I resulted in Emperor Nicholas II’s abdication and the Bolshevik Revolution. And the war in Afghanistan became a key factor in Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev’s reforms.
Max Boot: Putin can defeat Ukraine’s military. Then what? Tell me how this ends.
It’s also worth noting that the current regime is uniquely vulnerable on this account. More than any other Russian ruler, Putin has made war, or the threat of war, the foundation of his popular support. He began his presidency by promising economic modernization, but when growth slowed and then began to stall, he shifted his tactics to what Russian scholars have called “patriotic mobilization” or “militarized patriotism in peacetime.” Russian propaganda soon began stressing two main themes: The “West” is at war with Russia. An undeclared, mean, constant war. But the Motherland has nothing to worry about so long as Putin is in charge. Not only will he protect Russia, but he will also restore it to at least some of the victorious glory of the Soviet superpower status.
Compared with Marxism-Leninism, Putin’s national ideology of militarized patriotism lacks coherence and is yet to be tested by adversity. As to the terror, the evolution of the regime from a still “softer” authoritarianism to a traditional brutal dictatorship will be one of the most troubling consequences of this war. Wartime censorship has already started, with huge fines and up to 15 years in jail for “distorting the purpose, role and tasks of the Armed Forces,” arrests are piling up, and more repression is likely to follow. Yet after two decades of incomplete and steadily diminishing but real freedoms, a sudden switch to near-totalitarianism carries enormous risks for Putin.
Every day that Ukraine holds out erodes Putin’s regime. The consequences could be far-reaching.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/07/why-putin-must-beware-of-coup-threats/?
Date: 9/03/2022 06:02:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858083
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Opinion: Putin needs to watch his back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/07/why-putin-must-beware-of-coup-threats/?
I don’t have much confidence in the Russian people, truth be told. The liberal intelligentsia and its supporters are the minority you see in the protests.
The people at large have little experience of freedom and democracy and they don’t have much taste for such “alien” concepts. Look at how meekly they bowed to Soviet totalitarianism for generation after generation.
So did the Ukrainians, but they’ve since grown a backbone, whereas Russians tend to pine for the days of total autocracy, when thinking was unnecessary.
Date: 9/03/2022 06:24:26
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858087
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Opinion: Putin needs to watch his back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/07/why-putin-must-beware-of-coup-threats/?
I don’t have much confidence in the Russian people, truth be told. The liberal intelligentsia and its supporters are the minority you see in the protests.
The people at large have little experience of freedom and democracy and they don’t have much taste for such “alien” concepts. Look at how meekly they bowed to Soviet totalitarianism for generation after generation.
So did the Ukrainians, but they’ve since grown a backbone, whereas Russians tend to pine for the days of total autocracy, when thinking was unnecessary.
Hopefully the general public are hit in their hip-pocket nerve. It might prompt some realisation that authoritarians are just as much a danger to their economic rights as to their political rights.
Date: 9/03/2022 06:34:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858089
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Opinion: Putin needs to watch his back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/07/why-putin-must-beware-of-coup-threats/?
I don’t have much confidence in the Russian people, truth be told. The liberal intelligentsia and its supporters are the minority you see in the protests.
The people at large have little experience of freedom and democracy and they don’t have much taste for such “alien” concepts. Look at how meekly they bowed to Soviet totalitarianism for generation after generation.
So did the Ukrainians, but they’ve since grown a backbone, whereas Russians tend to pine for the days of total autocracy, when thinking was unnecessary.
Hopefully the general public are hit in their hip-pocket nerve. It might prompt some realisation that authoritarians are just as much a danger to their economic rights as to their political rights.
In the last decades of the USSR the economy was in a state of ever-increasing collapse, but the Communist Party held onto power for years.
It’s true that since then the people have grown fond of relative prosperity, but most of them are still inclined to believe their state media, which blames all ills on “the West”.
Date: 9/03/2022 08:11:10
From: esselte
ID: 1858110
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Opinion: Putin needs to watch his back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/07/why-putin-must-beware-of-coup-threats/?
I don’t have much confidence in the Russian people, truth be told. The liberal intelligentsia and its supporters are the minority you see in the protests.
The people at large have little experience of freedom and democracy and they don’t have much taste for such “alien” concepts. Look at how meekly they bowed to Soviet totalitarianism for generation after generation.
So did the Ukrainians, but they’ve since grown a backbone, whereas Russians tend to pine for the days of total autocracy, when thinking was unnecessary.
Hopefully the general public are hit in their hip-pocket nerve. It might prompt some realisation that authoritarians are just as much a danger to their economic rights as to their political rights.
Putin’s “inner circle” is very close and loyal so it’s doubtful he will be removed by them. Popular sentiment may have the power to remove him but as you said there isn’t necessarily the impetus amongst enough Russian people for that to become a factor. At least not quickly or forcefully enough to have a meaningful influence on current events.
The problem is, despite appearances and popular Western sentiment, Russia isn’t anywhere close to losing to Ukraine and they never will be. Russia has taken a softly-softly approach so far. They have committed atrocities, but compared to what they could be doing they have been very restrained. Their tactics have been aimed at minimizing civilian casualties. Their military training focuses on potential engagements with NATO so they aren’t really good at this soft kind of warfare. However as sanctions start to bite it will become more urgent for Putin to gain victory and Russian tactics are likely to become more brutal in order to force Ukraine to negotiate or surrender. They will move more and more in to a mode of war that they actually have been trained for and are very good at.
Ultimately the west will not interfere in this situation beyond the type of sanctions already imposed and actions already taken. Unless the popular sentiment in Russia changes drastically and quickly (which is unlikely) Ukraine will lose this war eventually. As casualties mount and Western leaders start trying to contain the damage to themselves from a perceived lack of action on their part we will start to see a shift in Western public opinion regarding Zelenskyy – from heroic freedom fighter to someone throwing Ukrainian lives away in a pointless, unwinnable war. The Ukrainians themselves will also reach the “backbone-limit” of what they are willing to tolerate and will turn against Zelenskyy.
It’s a really horrible situation which is going to get more horrible before it gets better, and unfortunately the “better” we are talking about is Russian victory. Russia has had some setbacks so far, but they are not doing nearly as badly as the narrative in the West would have us believe. Regardless of stranded convoys, internal corruption degrading the war machine and such, Russia still has a massive amount of military power that it could easily bring to bear on Ukraine at a moments notice.
Date: 9/03/2022 08:27:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858115
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
I don’t have much confidence in the Russian people, truth be told. The liberal intelligentsia and its supporters are the minority you see in the protests.
The people at large have little experience of freedom and democracy and they don’t have much taste for such “alien” concepts. Look at how meekly they bowed to Soviet totalitarianism for generation after generation.
So did the Ukrainians, but they’ve since grown a backbone, whereas Russians tend to pine for the days of total autocracy, when thinking was unnecessary.
Hopefully the general public are hit in their hip-pocket nerve. It might prompt some realisation that authoritarians are just as much a danger to their economic rights as to their political rights.
Putin’s “inner circle” is very close and loyal so it’s doubtful he will be removed by them. Popular sentiment may have the power to remove him but as you said there isn’t necessarily the impetus amongst enough Russian people for that to become a factor. At least not quickly or forcefully enough to have a meaningful influence on current events.
The problem is, despite appearances and popular Western sentiment, Russia isn’t anywhere close to losing to Ukraine and they never will be. Russia has taken a softly-softly approach so far. They have committed atrocities, but compared to what they could be doing they have been very restrained. Their tactics have been aimed at minimizing civilian casualties. Their military training focuses on potential engagements with NATO so they aren’t really good at this soft kind of warfare. However as sanctions start to bite it will become more urgent for Putin to gain victory and Russian tactics are likely to become more brutal in order to force Ukraine to negotiate or surrender. They will move more and more in to a mode of war that they actually have been trained for and are very good at.
Ultimately the west will not interfere in this situation beyond the type of sanctions already imposed and actions already taken. Unless the popular sentiment in Russia changes drastically and quickly (which is unlikely) Ukraine will lose this war eventually. As casualties mount and Western leaders start trying to contain the damage to themselves from a perceived lack of action on their part we will start to see a shift in Western public opinion regarding Zelenskyy – from heroic freedom fighter to someone throwing Ukrainian lives away in a pointless, unwinnable war. The Ukrainians themselves will also reach the “backbone-limit” of what they are willing to tolerate and will turn against Zelenskyy.
It’s a really horrible situation which is going to get more horrible before it gets better, and unfortunately the “better” we are talking about is Russian victory. Russia has had some setbacks so far, but they are not doing nearly as badly as the narrative in the West would have us believe. Regardless of stranded convoys, internal corruption degrading the war machine and such, Russia still has a massive amount of military power that it could easily bring to bear on Ukraine at a moments notice.
Putin may well adopt the tactics used in Chechnya but these are certainly not reflective of “training to engage NATO”, which would involve fighting massively armed modern forces, something the Russians are likely to be hopeless at.
Their tactics in Chechnya were simply to target civilians wholesale and reduce cities to rubble by air strikes and artillery, while not excessively risking the lives of their incompetent and reluctant troops.
The Ukrainian political and military leadership are well aware that this could be the plan, and are doing everything they can to enlist more support from the West to try to prevent it.
Date: 9/03/2022 09:15:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858122
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Opinion: Putin needs to watch his back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/07/why-putin-must-beware-of-coup-threats/?
I don’t have much confidence in the Russian people, truth be told. The liberal intelligentsia and its supporters are the minority you see in the protests.
The people at large have little experience of freedom and democracy and they don’t have much taste for such “alien” concepts. Look at how meekly they bowed to Soviet totalitarianism for generation after generation.
So did the Ukrainians, but they’ve since grown a backbone, whereas Russians tend to pine for the days of total autocracy, when thinking was unnecessary.
Hopefully the general public are hit in their hip-pocket nerve. It might prompt some realisation that authoritarians are just as much a danger to their economic rights as to their political rights.
don’t forget Labor will be just as bad, worse even
Date: 9/03/2022 09:20:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858124
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
esselte said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Hopefully the general public are hit in their hip-pocket nerve. It might prompt some realisation that authoritarians are just as much a danger to their economic rights as to their political rights.
Putin’s “inner circle” is very close and loyal so it’s doubtful he will be removed by them. Popular sentiment may have the power to remove him but as you said there isn’t necessarily the impetus amongst enough Russian people for that to become a factor. At least not quickly or forcefully enough to have a meaningful influence on current events.
The problem is, despite appearances and popular Western sentiment, Russia isn’t anywhere close to losing to Ukraine and they never will be. Russia has taken a softly-softly approach so far. They have committed atrocities, but compared to what they could be doing they have been very restrained. Their tactics have been aimed at minimizing civilian casualties. Their military training focuses on potential engagements with NATO so they aren’t really good at this soft kind of warfare. However as sanctions start to bite it will become more urgent for Putin to gain victory and Russian tactics are likely to become more brutal in order to force Ukraine to negotiate or surrender. They will move more and more in to a mode of war that they actually have been trained for and are very good at.
Ultimately the west will not interfere in this situation beyond the type of sanctions already imposed and actions already taken. Unless the popular sentiment in Russia changes drastically and quickly (which is unlikely) Ukraine will lose this war eventually. As casualties mount and Western leaders start trying to contain the damage to themselves from a perceived lack of action on their part we will start to see a shift in Western public opinion regarding Zelenskyy – from heroic freedom fighter to someone throwing Ukrainian lives away in a pointless, unwinnable war. The Ukrainians themselves will also reach the “backbone-limit” of what they are willing to tolerate and will turn against Zelenskyy.
It’s a really horrible situation which is going to get more horrible before it gets better, and unfortunately the “better” we are talking about is Russian victory. Russia has had some setbacks so far, but they are not doing nearly as badly as the narrative in the West would have us believe. Regardless of stranded convoys, internal corruption degrading the war machine and such, Russia still has a massive amount of military power that it could easily bring to bear on Ukraine at a moments notice.
Putin may well adopt the tactics used in Chechnya but these are certainly not reflective of “training to engage NATO”, which would involve fighting massively armed modern forces, something the Russians are likely to be hopeless at.
Their tactics in Chechnya were simply to target civilians wholesale and reduce cities to rubble by air strikes and artillery, while not excessively risking the lives of their incompetent and reluctant troops.
The Ukrainian political and military leadership are well aware that this could be the plan, and are doing everything they can to enlist more support from the West to try to prevent it.
(But also bear in mind, Ukraine is about 35 times larger than Chechnya and has a population over 30 times larger).
Date: 9/03/2022 09:48:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1858125
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
NATO enforced a no-fly zone over Libya, a non-NATO country, 27 March 2011 – 31 October 2011. So the concept is not without precedent.
Mind you, Putin’s retribution for such action could be quite nasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
Date: 9/03/2022 10:00:06
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1858126
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
I don’t have much confidence in the Russian people, truth be told. The liberal intelligentsia and its supporters are the minority you see in the protests.
The people at large have little experience of freedom and democracy and they don’t have much taste for such “alien” concepts. Look at how meekly they bowed to Soviet totalitarianism for generation after generation.
So did the Ukrainians, but they’ve since grown a backbone, whereas Russians tend to pine for the days of total autocracy, when thinking was unnecessary.
Hopefully the general public are hit in their hip-pocket nerve. It might prompt some realisation that authoritarians are just as much a danger to their economic rights as to their political rights.
Putin’s “inner circle” is very close and loyal so it’s doubtful he will be removed by them. Popular sentiment may have the power to remove him but as you said there isn’t necessarily the impetus amongst enough Russian people for that to become a factor. At least not quickly or forcefully enough to have a meaningful influence on current events.
The problem is, despite appearances and popular Western sentiment, Russia isn’t anywhere close to losing to Ukraine and they never will be. Russia has taken a softly-softly approach so far. They have committed atrocities, but compared to what they could be doing they have been very restrained. Their tactics have been aimed at minimizing civilian casualties. Their military training focuses on potential engagements with NATO so they aren’t really good at this soft kind of warfare. However as sanctions start to bite it will become more urgent for Putin to gain victory and Russian tactics are likely to become more brutal in order to force Ukraine to negotiate or surrender. They will move more and more in to a mode of war that they actually have been trained for and are very good at.
Ultimately the west will not interfere in this situation beyond the type of sanctions already imposed and actions already taken. Unless the popular sentiment in Russia changes drastically and quickly (which is unlikely) Ukraine will lose this war eventually. As casualties mount and Western leaders start trying to contain the damage to themselves from a perceived lack of action on their part we will start to see a shift in Western public opinion regarding Zelenskyy – from heroic freedom fighter to someone throwing Ukrainian lives away in a pointless, unwinnable war. The Ukrainians themselves will also reach the “backbone-limit” of what they are willing to tolerate and will turn against Zelenskyy.
It’s a really horrible situation which is going to get more horrible before it gets better, and unfortunately the “better” we are talking about is Russian victory. Russia has had some setbacks so far, but they are not doing nearly as badly as the narrative in the West would have us believe. Regardless of stranded convoys, internal corruption degrading the war machine and such, Russia still has a massive amount of military power that it could easily bring to bear on Ukraine at a moments notice.
I’m not sure that’s all true.. Ukraine is a very large and populous country and so while I agree there is a degree of inevitably around losing cities like Kyiv, what is also certain is that there will be a very large number of Ukrainian nationalists that will fight tooth and nail against any form of occupation. Also, the West will not acknowledge a Russian aligned Ukrainian govt as being legitimate.
Date: 9/03/2022 10:00:35
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858127
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
NATO enforced a no-fly zone over Libya, a non-NATO country, 27 March 2011 – 31 October 2011. So the concept is not without precedent.
Mind you, Putin’s retribution for such action could be quite nasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
doesn’t seem that Libya were able to credibly threaten nuclear warfare in response
Date: 9/03/2022 10:01:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858128
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
the West will not acknowledge a Russian aligned Ukrainian govt as being legitimate.
we mean just look at the legitimacy of the recent Russian aligned USSA govt
Date: 9/03/2022 10:04:23
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858129
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
NATO enforced a no-fly zone over Libya, a non-NATO country, 27 March 2011 – 31 October 2011. So the concept is not without precedent.
Mind you, Putin’s retribution for such action could be quite nasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
So he wants us to believe, but it’s almost certainly bluff.
But he’s banking on the “weakness” of the West – that fact that our countries are democratic and our leaders are limited in the gambling they can undertake in the name of justice etc – to ensure that few are likely to encourage calling his bluff.
Date: 9/03/2022 10:08:08
From: Michael V
ID: 1858130
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Michael V said:
NATO enforced a no-fly zone over Libya, a non-NATO country, 27 March 2011 – 31 October 2011. So the concept is not without precedent.
Mind you, Putin’s retribution for such action could be quite nasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
doesn’t seem that Libya were able to credibly threaten nuclear warfare in response
Well, yes.
Date: 9/03/2022 10:21:38
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858131
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I heard the Pakistan captain being interviewed this morning and I’m pretty sure I’ve spoken to him on the phone.
Date: 9/03/2022 10:23:55
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858132
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Be a good time to have a wheat farm.
Date: 9/03/2022 10:29:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858134
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
I heard the Pakistan captain being interviewed this morning and I’m pretty sure I’ve spoken to him on the phone.
He helped me with my computer
Date: 9/03/2022 11:07:45
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858140
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
US government announces new sanctions
Biden slams Russia by imposing new restrictions on pregnant man emojiis
Missiles and rainbow flags shipped to ukraine in effort to secure the border.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:09:41
From: Cymek
ID: 1858141
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
NATO enforced a no-fly zone over Libya, a non-NATO country, 27 March 2011 – 31 October 2011. So the concept is not without precedent.
Mind you, Putin’s retribution for such action could be quite nasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
Does a no fly zone have to involve Western jets engaging Russian jets or could Patriot missile systems and the like be supplied to the Ukrainian in large numbers making flying extremely hazardous.
Its better than nothing
Date: 9/03/2022 11:10:36
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858142
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Date: 9/03/2022 11:11:52
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858143
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
NATO enforced a no-fly zone over Libya, a non-NATO country, 27 March 2011 – 31 October 2011. So the concept is not without precedent.
Mind you, Putin’s retribution for such action could be quite nasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
Does a no fly zone have to involve Western jets engaging Russian jets or could Patriot missile systems and the like be supplied to the Ukrainian in large numbers making flying extremely hazardous.
Its better than nothing
Sure
I’m sure the russians won’t mind patriot missile systems coming into ukraine. The only downside will be a hard rain of missiles knocking out the power system in that area and missile strikes on suspected vehicles. If they the Ukrainians are up for it then the more the merrier.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:12:36
From: Cymek
ID: 1858144
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Nationalist Socialist Party 2 – Electric Boogaloo
Date: 9/03/2022 11:12:46
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858146
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Why would Russia pay money to people that wages war on it ??
Date: 9/03/2022 11:13:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858147
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Nationalist Socialist Party 2 – Electric Boogaloo
The boog
Date: 9/03/2022 11:14:08
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858148
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Paying one’s creditors is not analogous to reparations. Now if Russia loses and is forced to pay for the economic harm they caused Ukraine you might be onto something.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:14:57
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858149
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Why would Russia pay money to people that wages war on it ??
NATO is at war with Russia?
Date: 9/03/2022 11:17:29
From: Cymek
ID: 1858151
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Paying one’s creditors is not analogous to reparations. Now if Russia loses and is forced to pay for the economic harm they caused Ukraine you might be onto something.
I wonder what the damage bill is, have to be multiple billions by now
Date: 9/03/2022 11:19:01
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858155
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Why would Russia pay money to people that wages war on it ??
NATO is at war with Russia?
I’m fairly sure that shipping 1/2 a billion dollars of weapons into ukraine to fight Russia means
NATO is at war.
If the war is limited to ukraine then it’s a straight fight with drones, missiles, artillery, helicopter gunships, infantry, snipers etc
There will be no wheat from ukraine to Europe this year.
I see turkey is getting a shipment from ukraine after putin had a conversation with erdogan, if I were Russia I would have tried sailing a few ships through first then drip fed the ships to Turkey.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:21:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1858159
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
Why would Russia pay money to people that wages war on it ??
NATO is at war with Russia?
I’m fairly sure that shipping 1/2 a billion dollars of weapons into ukraine to fight Russia means NATO is at war.
If the war is limited to ukraine then it’s a straight fight with drones, missiles, artillery, helicopter gunships, infantry, snipers etc
There will be no wheat from ukraine to Europe this year.
I see turkey is getting a shipment from ukraine after putin had a conversation with erdogan, if I were Russia I would have tried sailing a few ships through first then drip fed the ships to Turkey.
Didn’t Turkey threaten to attack Russian ships
Date: 9/03/2022 11:25:35
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858162
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
NATO is at war with Russia?
I’m fairly sure that shipping 1/2 a billion dollars of weapons into ukraine to fight Russia means NATO is at war.
If the war is limited to ukraine then it’s a straight fight with drones, missiles, artillery, helicopter gunships, infantry, snipers etc
There will be no wheat from ukraine to Europe this year.
I see turkey is getting a shipment from ukraine after putin had a conversation with erdogan, if I were Russia I would have tried sailing a few ships through first then drip fed the ships to Turkey.
Didn’t Turkey threaten to attack Russian ships
No Turkey is going to blow up US aircraft-carriers. IT COULD STILL HAPPEN!
Date: 9/03/2022 11:31:19
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858165
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
NATO is at war with Russia?
I’m fairly sure that shipping 1/2 a billion dollars of weapons into ukraine to fight Russia means NATO is at war.
If the war is limited to ukraine then it’s a straight fight with drones, missiles, artillery, helicopter gunships, infantry, snipers etc
There will be no wheat from ukraine to Europe this year.
I see turkey is getting a shipment from ukraine after putin had a conversation with erdogan, if I were Russia I would have tried sailing a few ships through first then drip fed the ships to Turkey.
Didn’t Turkey threaten to attack Russian ships
Then that would be a
NATO attack on Russia which means Russia would strike first.
Ive not seen any Turkish threats to attack Russia.
If they did threaten then Russia would most likely knock them out and initiate a first strike
Date: 9/03/2022 11:31:46
From: Cymek
ID: 1858167
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
I’m fairly sure that shipping 1/2 a billion dollars of weapons into ukraine to fight Russia means NATO is at war.
If the war is limited to ukraine then it’s a straight fight with drones, missiles, artillery, helicopter gunships, infantry, snipers etc
There will be no wheat from ukraine to Europe this year.
I see turkey is getting a shipment from ukraine after putin had a conversation with erdogan, if I were Russia I would have tried sailing a few ships through first then drip fed the ships to Turkey.
Didn’t Turkey threaten to attack Russian ships
No Turkey is going to blow up US aircraft-carriers. IT COULD STILL HAPPEN!
What I find astonishing is these leaders who underestimate the enemies resolve and the resources required.
Ukraine is unlikely to win but the Russians won’t either, the troops required to control the nation is massive and they would be targets as would the equipment.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:32:02
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858168
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
I’m fairly sure that shipping 1/2 a billion dollars of weapons into ukraine to fight Russia means NATO is at war.
If the war is limited to ukraine then it’s a straight fight with drones, missiles, artillery, helicopter gunships, infantry, snipers etc
There will be no wheat from ukraine to Europe this year.
I see turkey is getting a shipment from ukraine after putin had a conversation with erdogan, if I were Russia I would have tried sailing a few ships through first then drip fed the ships to Turkey.
Didn’t Turkey threaten to attack Russian ships
No Turkey is going to blow up US aircraft-carriers. IT COULD STILL HAPPEN!
If turkey goes to war with Russia it would be over quickly
Date: 9/03/2022 11:33:09
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858170
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/companies/russia-proposes-nationalising-foreign-owned-factories-that-shut-operations/ar-AAUMHa8?ocid=msedgntp
“Russia proposes nationalising foreign-owned factories that shut operations”
Date: 9/03/2022 11:34:22
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858172
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Didn’t Turkey threaten to attack Russian ships
No Turkey is going to blow up US aircraft-carriers. IT COULD STILL HAPPEN!
What I find astonishing is these leaders who underestimate the enemies resolve and the resources required.
Ukraine is unlikely to win but the Russians won’t either, the troops required to control the nation is massive and they would be targets as would the equipment.
Who says the russians will “control” anything?
Ukraines belly and western end will be a live fire zone – the Ukrainians that have left will not return .
Ukraine might well still produce wheat and other resources but it all goes east
The west absorbs the never ending waves of refugees and disappears from the history books
Date: 9/03/2022 11:38:46
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858176
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Date: 9/03/2022 11:40:46
From: Cymek
ID: 1858177
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
No Turkey is going to blow up US aircraft-carriers. IT COULD STILL HAPPEN!
What I find astonishing is these leaders who underestimate the enemies resolve and the resources required.
Ukraine is unlikely to win but the Russians won’t either, the troops required to control the nation is massive and they would be targets as would the equipment.
Who says the russians will “control” anything?
Ukraines belly and western end will be a live fire zone – the Ukrainians that have left will not return .
Ukraine might well still produce wheat and other resources but it all goes east
The west absorbs the never ending waves of refugees and disappears from the history books
That’s what I mean, what did they get if they win the war, they won’t control the country
A nation full of hostiles supplied with a continuing supply of weapons with foreigners joining in the fight.
Can see nations using it as a payback to Russia without actually involved in the fighting
Date: 9/03/2022 11:42:00
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858178
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The russians could send wheat to North Korea and return get some north Korean troops. North Korea gets cold in winter so there would be ideal fighting conditions for them.
Europe could send an army of volunteers to ukraine but missile strikes on these troops coming in will mean German hospitals will be over flowing.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:42:36
From: Cymek
ID: 1858179
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Not sure what Ukraine would get out of it.
A diminished nation that’s wrecked and will take decades to fix assuming they can even afford it, can’t see the Russians paying for it
Date: 9/03/2022 11:44:35
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858182
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Not sure what Ukraine would get out of it.
Ummm democracy?
Date: 9/03/2022 11:45:33
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858183
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
Cymek said:
What I find astonishing is these leaders who underestimate the enemies resolve and the resources required.
Ukraine is unlikely to win but the Russians won’t either, the troops required to control the nation is massive and they would be targets as would the equipment.
Who says the russians will “control” anything?
Ukraines belly and western end will be a live fire zone – the Ukrainians that have left will not return .
Ukraine might well still produce wheat and other resources but it all goes east
The west absorbs the never ending waves of refugees and disappears from the history books
That’s what I mean, what did they get if they win the war, they won’t control the country
A nation full of hostiles supplied with a continuing supply of weapons with foreigners joining in the fight.
Can see nations using it as a payback to Russia without actually involved in the fighting
Ukraine might well just end up a perpetual live fire zone. Hell, Australia could encourage our soldiers to join up/ other volunteers etc , we could easily send perhaps 20 – 50,000 troops to the eastern front. Most likely the
SAS fellahs have already gone.
This is a war of black and white, Russia invaded for no good reason, if we are willing to accept tens of thousands of casualties back then all the better.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:50:11
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858186
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Not sure what Ukraine would get out of it.
A diminished nation that’s wrecked and will take decades to fix assuming they can even afford it, can’t see the Russians paying for it
Ukraine doesn’t get anything from it apart from being morally superior and taking a stand against Russian aggression, sometimes to make an omelette you need to break some eggs.
We could take thousands of Ukrainian refugees and they can continue the fight from Australia, electorally encouraging our politicians to keep the weapon shipments and perhaps even officially committing troops to the war.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:50:38
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858187
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Not sure what Ukraine would get out of it.
Ummm democracy?
Yes ! Democracy ! And freedom.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:51:42
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858189
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Not sure what Ukraine would get out of it.
Ummm democracy?
Yes ! Democracy ! And freedom.
This is genius level
Date: 9/03/2022 11:53:00
From: dv
ID: 1858191
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Not sure what Ukraine would get out of it.
A diminished nation that’s wrecked and will take decades to fix assuming they can even afford it, can’t see the Russians paying for it
Things will look up once they join the EU.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:54:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858195
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Ummm democracy?
Yes ! Democracy ! And freedom.
This is genius level
I can imagine that if you seriously felt oppressed by an authoritarian government in Australia you’d be one of the first to pick up a gun.
Date: 9/03/2022 11:55:46
From: dv
ID: 1858196
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Ref
Date: 9/03/2022 11:59:26
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858198
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
wookiemeister said:
Yes ! Democracy ! And freedom.
This is genius level
I can imagine that if you seriously felt oppressed by an authoritarian government in Australia you’d be one of the first to pick up a gun.
No
I would leave
History tells me you leave – quickly
I have studied the holocaust , the Jews, gypsies, political dissidents died because they didn’t realise what was happening. Bonhoeffer in his theory of stupid people realised stupid people were the most dangerous – he died in a camp. A stupid person does harm to themselves and others . Guns are hard to get here ( can’t be bothered) and we generally have lots of stupid people – I don’t fancy my chances, it’s easier to leave and let the thing collapse under its own weight.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:00:25
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858199
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Its lucky we have all those oil reserves
In America
Date: 9/03/2022 12:02:00
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858200
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Go to Dachau
There’s a picture of of Dachaus first prisoners arriving
They are dressed in lederhosen
Oh yes – the Dachau points out that Jewish banks were lending money to the nazis
Date: 9/03/2022 12:02:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858201
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The world isn’t always what we think
Date: 9/03/2022 12:03:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1858202
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Its lucky we have all those oil reserves
In America
I see the EU has been called out by a few people for being reliant on Russian oil/gas, seriously stupid move by them
Date: 9/03/2022 12:03:30
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858203
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
This is genius level
I can imagine that if you seriously felt oppressed by an authoritarian government in Australia you’d be one of the first to pick up a gun.
No
I would leave
History tells me you leave – quickly
I have studied the holocaust , the Jews, gypsies, political dissidents died because they didn’t realise what was happening. Bonhoeffer in his theory of stupid people realised stupid people were the most dangerous – he died in a camp. A stupid person does harm to themselves and others . Guns are hard to get here ( can’t be bothered) and we generally have lots of stupid people – I don’t fancy my chances, it’s easier to leave and let the thing collapse under its own weight.
I couldn’t imagine giving up like that.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:05:29
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858204
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
Its lucky we have all those oil reserves
In America
I see the EU has been called out by a few people for being reliant on Russian oil/gas, seriously stupid move by them
Until a month ago Russia was probably better than Saudi Arabia.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:08:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858205
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I can imagine that if you seriously felt oppressed by an authoritarian government in Australia you’d be one of the first to pick up a gun.
No
I would leave
History tells me you leave – quickly
I have studied the holocaust , the Jews, gypsies, political dissidents died because they didn’t realise what was happening. Bonhoeffer in his theory of stupid people realised stupid people were the most dangerous – he died in a camp. A stupid person does harm to themselves and others . Guns are hard to get here ( can’t be bothered) and we generally have lots of stupid people – I don’t fancy my chances, it’s easier to leave and let the thing collapse under its own weight.
I couldn’t imagine giving up like that.
No
I became fairly aware from.a very early age about the fate of the Jews
Learn from history, for things to get that bad the majority of people would be happy for things to get worse.
Its like Victoria, if the anti vaxxers didn’t like being smashed by the gov there , why stay?
Make a strategic retreat to another state and make sure you don’t vote Labor.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:14:57
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858208
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
No
I would leave
History tells me you leave – quickly
I have studied the holocaust , the Jews, gypsies, political dissidents died because they didn’t realise what was happening. Bonhoeffer in his theory of stupid people realised stupid people were the most dangerous – he died in a camp. A stupid person does harm to themselves and others . Guns are hard to get here ( can’t be bothered) and we generally have lots of stupid people – I don’t fancy my chances, it’s easier to leave and let the thing collapse under its own weight.
I couldn’t imagine giving up like that.
No
I became fairly aware from.a very early age about the fate of the Jews
Learn from history, for things to get that bad the majority of people would be happy for things to get worse.
Its like Victoria, if the anti vaxxers didn’t like being smashed by the gov there , why stay?
Make a strategic retreat to another state and make sure you don’t vote Labor.
I’m already involved in political activism so in my own small way i’m preserving the Australian way of life. The anti-vaxxers principal flaw is that they think the represent the majority. I agree if I found myself at odds with most people and felt under the tyranny of the majority I’d probably move too but if any small minority threatened to overturn out traditions of free assembly, freedom of the press, fair elections and the rule of law they’d cop more than just an earful from me.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:20:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1858210
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I couldn’t imagine giving up like that.
No
I became fairly aware from.a very early age about the fate of the Jews
Learn from history, for things to get that bad the majority of people would be happy for things to get worse.
Its like Victoria, if the anti vaxxers didn’t like being smashed by the gov there , why stay?
Make a strategic retreat to another state and make sure you don’t vote Labor.
I’m already involved in political activism so in my own small way i’m preserving the Australian way of life. The anti-vaxxers principal flaw is that they think the represent the majority. I agree if I found myself at odds with most people and felt under the tyranny of the majority I’d probably move too but if any small minority threatened to overturn out traditions of free assembly, freedom of the press, fair elections and the rule of law they’d cop more than just an earful from me.
It was a stupid thing to fight the government about, the pandemic is real as are the deaths.
Doing nothing would have resulted in likely a 10 fold increase in deaths.
At least pick something worthy to protest about
Date: 9/03/2022 12:31:17
From: Cymek
ID: 1858212
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
How far would you go before you surrender to an invader if you were holding ground and inflicting large casualties on them.
Them nuking a major city
Date: 9/03/2022 12:33:01
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858215
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Ref
Apparently he was shot dead but the circumstances are not clear:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10582805/Ukrainian-peace-negotiator-shot-dead-amid-claims-Russian-spy.html
Date: 9/03/2022 12:33:44
From: dv
ID: 1858216
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
Its lucky we have all those oil reserves
In America
I see the EU has been called out by a few people for being reliant on Russian oil/gas, seriously stupid move by them
Until a month ago Russia was probably better than Saudi Arabia.
In a lot of ways, still are.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:43:43
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858222
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
The Ukrainians have reportedly recently killed one of their negotiators as a “ spy “ in the last few days, so I don’t have much hope anything will happen from a diplomatic front
Ref
Apparently he was shot dead but the circumstances are not clear:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10582805/Ukrainian-peace-negotiator-shot-dead-amid-claims-Russian-spy.html
Maybe he slipped over and a gun went off in his pocket ( he probably went back to the front line to fight for the glory of ukraine)?
Date: 9/03/2022 12:47:09
From: dv
ID: 1858228
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Mr Kireev was pictured sat on the Ukrainian side of the negotiating table during last week’s peace talks with Russia on February 28, despite not being on the official delegation list, and his role at the summit is unclear.
Both Russia and Ukraine have made claims about his alleged spying activities, each blaming him of working for the other side.
——
Just wandered in maybe…
Date: 9/03/2022 12:47:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858230
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
so all they need is to secretly convince some other non aligned country with a few assets to fuck the shit out of the invading forces and boom no NATO warmongering, no problem
Date: 9/03/2022 12:49:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858232
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
mmm we wonder what interesting things might happen if we lock a militaristic country into a couple of decades of war reparations, this ought to be fun
Russia default on debt is ‘imminent’, says ratings agency Fitch
Ratings agency Fitch has again downgraded Russia’s sovereign debt rating farther into junk territory from “B” to “C,” saying the decision reflects the view that a default is “imminent.”
Like other major ratings agencies, Fitch had already slashed Russia’s rating earlier this month to “junk” status, or the category of countries at risk of not being able to repay their debt.
“The ‘C’ rating reflects Fitch’s view that a sovereign default is imminent,” the agency said in a statement, adding its new downgrade came because recent developments had “further undermined Russia’s willingness to service government debt.”
“The further ratcheting up of sanctions, and proposals that could limit trade in energy, increase the probability of a policy response by Russia that includes at least selective non-payment of its sovereign debt obligations,” the agency said.
If Russia were to default on a debt payment, it would be the first time since 1998.
Reporting by AFP
Paying one’s creditors is not analogous to reparations. Now if Russia loses and is forced to pay for the economic harm they caused Ukraine you might be onto something.
I wonder what the damage bill is, have to be multiple billions by now
is it inconceivable that weaponised sanctions causing countries to be unable to pay creditors counts as a form of warfare
Date: 9/03/2022 12:50:16
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858235
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
so all they need is to secretly convince some other non aligned country with a few assets to fuck the shit out of the invading forces and boom no NATO warmongering, no problem
I vote Switzerland.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:51:00
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Paying one’s creditors is not analogous to reparations. Now if Russia loses and is forced to pay for the economic harm they caused Ukraine you might be onto something.
I wonder what the damage bill is, have to be multiple billions by now
is it inconceivable that weaponised sanctions causing countries to be unable to pay creditors counts as a form of warfare
It’s a lot nicer than all that killing business.
Date: 9/03/2022 12:53:40
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858242
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
I wonder what the damage bill is, have to be multiple billions by now
is it inconceivable that weaponised sanctions causing countries to be unable to pay creditors counts as a form of warfare
It’s a lot nicer than all that killing business.
depends who you ask we guess, make people die of poverty or make them die of valuable metal fragments embedded in their skin bling
Date: 9/03/2022 12:57:27
From: dv
ID: 1858247
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
so all they need is to secretly convince some other non aligned country with a few assets to fuck the shit out of the invading forces and boom no NATO warmongering, no problem
Yeah but they’d be subject to attack from Russia.
Maybe if all the nonNato forces got together it would be more than Russia could handle with conventional forces. Let’s see… Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Serbia… those last two might be itching for a scrap
Date: 9/03/2022 12:59:53
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858249
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
The world isn’t always what we think
There’s increasing speculation that it may be round.
Date: 9/03/2022 13:02:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858252
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
wookiemeister said:
The world isn’t always what we think
There’s increasing speculation that it may be round.
what if we think twisted
Date: 9/03/2022 13:03:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858253
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
wookiemeister said:
The world isn’t always what we think
There’s increasing speculation that it may be round.
More or less round…
Date: 9/03/2022 13:04:37
From: Michael V
ID: 1858254
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Peak Warming Man said:
wookiemeister said:
The world isn’t always what we think
There’s increasing speculation that it may be round.
what if we think twisted
Sister, we ain’t gunna take it.
Date: 9/03/2022 13:05:19
From: Michael V
ID: 1858255
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
wookiemeister said:
The world isn’t always what we think
There’s increasing speculation that it may be round.
More or less round…
But still flat?
Date: 9/03/2022 13:08:12
From: buffy
ID: 1858256
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
There’s increasing speculation that it may be round.
More or less round…
But still flat?
Flattish around some bits.
Date: 9/03/2022 14:27:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858297
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
not a bad summing up here:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeg487b_460svav1.mp4
Date: 9/03/2022 15:55:25
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858341
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Looks as if american bioweapon labs have been found in urkraine
I’m starting to wonder if the yank gov had a bigger part in cv19 now
Date: 9/03/2022 15:56:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858345
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said during a Senate hearing on Tuesday that if there is a chemical or biological weapons incident in Ukraine, it will be the Russians’ responsibility.
She also said the United States is working to prevent Russia from capturing Ukraine’s “biological research facilities.”
Date: 9/03/2022 15:59:52
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858347
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/CduA0TULnow
Oops I did it again
Date: 9/03/2022 16:03:33
From: Michael V
ID: 1858348
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
UN nuclear watchdog says it’s lost contact with Chernobyl nuclear data systems.
The Chernobyl nuclear power plant is no longer transmitting data to the UN’s atomic watchdog, the agency said, as it voiced concern for staff working under Russian guard at the Ukrainian facility. Last month Russia seized the defunct Chernobyl plant, the site of a 1986 disaster that killed hundreds and spread radioactive contamination west across Europe.
Late on Tuesday, local time, International Atomic Energy Agency chief Rafael Grossi “indicated that remote data transmission from safeguards monitoring systems installed at the Chornobyl NPP had been lost”, the agency said in a statement. “The Agency is looking into the status of safeguards monitoring systems in other locations in Ukraine and will provide further information soon,” it said. The IAEA uses the term “safeguards” to describe technical measures it applies to nuclear material and activities, with the objective of deterring the spread of nuclear weapons through early detection of the misuse of such material.
More than 200 technical staff and guards remain trapped at the site, working 13 days straight since the Russian takeover. The situation for the staff “was worsening” at the site, the IAEA said, citing the Ukrainian nuclear regulator.
The defunct plant sits inside an exclusion zone that houses decommissioned reactors as well as radioactive waste facilities. More than 2,000 staff still work at the plant as it requires constant management to prevent another nuclear disaster. The UN agency called on Russia to allow workers to rotate because rest and regular shifts were crucial to the site’s safety. “I’m deeply concerned about the difficult and stressful situation facing staff at the Chornobyl nuclear power plant and the potential risks this entails for nuclear safety,” said Grossi.
“I call on the forces in effective control of the site to urgently facilitate the safe rotation of personnel there.”
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Bloody!
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv/100893696
Date: 9/03/2022 16:06:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1858351
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said during a Senate hearing on Tuesday that if there is a chemical or biological weapons incident in Ukraine, it will be the Russians’ responsibility.
She also said the United States is working to prevent Russia from capturing Ukraine’s “biological research facilities.”
What sort of biological research, weapons would be a big no no but one does wonder if everyone does it but pretends they don’t
Date: 9/03/2022 16:20:45
From: Michael V
ID: 1858356
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said during a Senate hearing on Tuesday that if there is a chemical or biological weapons incident in Ukraine, it will be the Russians’ responsibility.
She also said the United States is working to prevent Russia from capturing Ukraine’s “biological research facilities.”
Shame on you, Mr Wookiemeister.
This so incredibly out of context as to make me think you are working for Putin.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/03/08/undersecretary_of_state_victoria_nuland_us_working_to_keep_russian_forces_out_of_ukraines_biological_research_facilities.html
Nb: Most biological research facilities around the world are about getting better plant varieties for food production.
Date: 9/03/2022 16:32:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858361
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
wookiemeister said:
Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said during a Senate hearing on Tuesday that if there is a chemical or biological weapons incident in Ukraine, it will be the Russians’ responsibility.
She also said the United States is working to prevent Russia from capturing Ukraine’s “biological research facilities.”
Shame on you, Mr Wookiemeister.
This so incredibly out of context as to make me think you are working for Putin.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/03/08/undersecretary_of_state_victoria_nuland_us_working_to_keep_russian_forces_out_of_ukraines_biological_research_facilities.html
Nb: Most biological research facilities around the world are about getting better plant varieties for food production.
Yeah, we have some in town here. entirely agricultural.
‘Biological’ is a very broad term.
Date: 9/03/2022 16:35:09
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858363
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
wookiemeister said:
Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said during a Senate hearing on Tuesday that if there is a chemical or biological weapons incident in Ukraine, it will be the Russians’ responsibility.
She also said the United States is working to prevent Russia from capturing Ukraine’s “biological research facilities.”
Shame on you, Mr Wookiemeister.
This so incredibly out of context as to make me think you are working for Putin.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/03/08/undersecretary_of_state_victoria_nuland_us_working_to_keep_russian_forces_out_of_ukraines_biological_research_facilities.html
Nb: Most biological research facilities around the world are about getting better plant varieties for food production.
Yeah, we have some in town here. entirely agricultural.
‘Biological’ is a very broad term.
https://thenamal.com/world/victoria-nuland-says-russia-may-capture-ukraines-bio-labs/
Oops I did it again !!!!
https://youtu.be/wsHbHR3Os6U
I’m not that innocent – no wonder the russians got fed up of them
Date: 9/03/2022 16:45:54
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858365
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said during a Senate hearing on Tuesday that if there is a chemical or biological weapons incident in Ukraine, it will be the Russians’ responsibility.
She also said the United States is working to prevent Russia from capturing Ukraine’s “biological research facilities.”
What sort of biological research, weapons would be a big no no but one does wonder if everyone does it but pretends they don’t
The yanks were funding the lab in China making cv19
Date: 9/03/2022 16:54:25
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858366
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>>The yanks were funding the lab
No wonder people just disappeared.
Date: 9/03/2022 17:39:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858382
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
so what we’re saying is that the poor Russians just went about it all wrong
all they needed was someone called Abdo Guts or something to stand up and wave some flasks full of washing powder around and then say that these were biological weapons of mass destruction that they found in Ukraine and boom
Date: 9/03/2022 19:21:45
From: sibeen
ID: 1858424
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
China has accused Nato of pushing tensions between Russia and Ukraine to “breaking point”
Err…scratches head
Date: 9/03/2022 19:24:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1858425
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
China has accused Nato of pushing tensions between Russia and Ukraine to “breaking point”
Err…scratches head
Russia “da! we have been taking it easy, wait until those Ukraine’s have to live off soviet era beets, cabbages and potatoes”
Date: 9/03/2022 19:25:58
From: Cymek
ID: 1858426
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
China has accused Nato of pushing tensions between Russia and Ukraine to “breaking point”
Err…scratches head
Comments by leaders/political parties really do make you wonder how smart/intelligent they are or aren’t
Stupid obvious remarks, lack of awareness and so on.
Date: 9/03/2022 19:39:38
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858437
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/yIRT6xRQkf8
Data can win without winning
Date: 9/03/2022 19:41:14
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858438
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/q7_DqgVDKkM
Rasputin
Date: 9/03/2022 19:42:04
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858439
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
China has accused Nato of pushing tensions between Russia and Ukraine to “breaking point”
Err…scratches head
Exactly it could end in war.
Date: 9/03/2022 21:02:13
From: dv
ID: 1858461
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany.
A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine.
The report said the FSB was being blamed for the failure of the invasion but had been given no warning of it and was unprepared to deal with the effects of crippling sanctions.
___
Fucking hell. What is going on at the Kremlin?
Date: 9/03/2022 21:04:17
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1858462
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/03/ukraine-russia-war-anti-putin-protest-movement/
Date: 9/03/2022 21:05:30
From: dv
ID: 1858464
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 9/03/2022 21:05:58
From: party_pants
ID: 1858465
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany.
A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine.
The report said the FSB was being blamed for the failure of the invasion but had been given no warning of it and was unprepared to deal with the effects of crippling sanctions.
___
Fucking hell. What is going on at the Kremlin?
my guess:
Yes men. Everybody is too scared to give Putin news or advice he doesn’t want to hear. Those that would have long since quit, been sacked, moved on, disappeared.
Date: 9/03/2022 21:11:03
From: party_pants
ID: 1858467
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 9/03/2022 21:13:48
From: sibeen
ID: 1858468
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Naughty Garda, naughty.
Date: 9/03/2022 21:17:47
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1858469
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

I see English isn’t their first language.
Date: 9/03/2022 21:18:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858470
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany.
A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine.
The report said the FSB was being blamed for the failure of the invasion but had been given no warning of it and was unprepared to deal with the effects of crippling sanctions.
___
Fucking hell. What is going on at the Kremlin?
my guess:
Yes men. Everybody is too scared to give Putin news or advice he doesn’t want to hear. Those that would have long since quit, been sacked, moved on, disappeared.
are FSB part of the Kremlin because you’d think a spy agency would have at least some semblance of internal awareness
Date: 9/03/2022 21:20:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858471
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bogsnorkler said:
dv said:

I see English isn’t their first language.
thankfully only the anglophone empire is allowed to monopolise the world
Date: 9/03/2022 21:21:41
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1858473
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bogsnorkler said:
dv said:

I see English isn’t their first language.
thankfully only the anglophone empire is allowed to monopolise the world
Divine right.
Date: 9/03/2022 21:28:16
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858476
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
China signals shift on Ukraine as Russia accused of atrocities
Xi calls conflict a ‘war’ for first time as it threatens No. 2 economy
Reuters
CK TAN, Nikkei staff writer
March 9, 2022 18:13 JST
BEIJING — China appears to be shifting its tone on the war in Ukraine, as Beijing counts the costs of defending a Russian ally accused of war crimes and braces for the economic fallout from Western-led sanctions.
On Tuesday, President Xi Jinping told his French and German counterparts that Beijing was ready to work with the international community to “prevent the tense situation from escalating, or even running out of control,” in his strongest comments yet on the two-week-old invasion.
Hinting at China’s growing alarm over Russia’s invasion, Xi also called for “maximum restraint to prevent a large-scale humanitarian crisis,” as the number of civilian casualties mount, including children.
This was “Beijing’s strongest indirect pushback yet on Moscow’s escalating violence in Ukraine,” U.S. risk advisory Eurasia Group said in a report.
Xi, who is looking to secure an unprecedented third term in office later this year, also used the term “war” for the first time, according to an English statement issued by the foreign affairs ministry, after Chinese officials had earlier stuck to Russia’s description of the offensive as a “special military operation.”
While Xi continued to avoid committing Beijing to the mediator role requested by Ukraine, he praised Paris and Berlin’s efforts to resolve the conflict through negotiation.
“The costs of defending the Kremlin are rising as Russian atrocities mount, and sanctions will hurt China’s energy-needy economy,” John Ciorciari, an associate professor of public policy at the University of Michigan, told Nikkei Asia
China had stood out as one of the few countries not to denounce Russia’s invasion of its neighbor, and it abstained on a U.N. Security Council resolution censuring the Kremlin last week.
On Monday, Foreign Minister Wang Yi said relations with Russia were still “rock-solid” despite an avalanche of criticism directed at Moscow. Wang’s closely watched press briefing came just a month after the two countries announced a new “no-limit” alliance widely viewed as pushback against the West and any expansion of NATO.
“To some within the policy circle, it was viewed as a step too far,” Thomas Zhang, a China expert at U.S. advisory FrontierView, said of the recently announced alliance. “Now the war has given China an opportunity to pull back and redress the course.”
Russia faces mounting criticism for flouting international law in its invasion of Ukraine, for attacks on nuclear power plants and hospitals, and the use of indiscriminate weapons. The International Criminal Court has opened an investigation into alleged war crimes and human rights violations by Russian forces.
During Tuesday’s online talks with French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Xi expressed concern about the global repercussions of a drawn-out war, while hitting out at Western sanctions aimed at crippling Russia’s economy.
“Sanctions will affect global finance, energy, transportation and stability of supply chains, and dampen a global economy that is already ravaged by the pandemic,” Xi said. “And this is in the interest of no one.”
China ranks as one of the biggest buyers of Russia’s enormous oil and gas exports, with energy purchases in the first nine months of 2021 expanding 41%, year-on-year, to $36 billion, according to the Geneva-based International Trade Center.
Russia accounted for some 13% of China’s total energy imports, while China’s overall trade with Russia ballooned 38.5% on the year in January and February, as the two countries economic ties grow closer.
“Due to the high proportion of China’s crude oil and natural gas imports, it will definitely be affected and import costs will rise accordingly,” said Lian Weiliang, deputy director of the National Development and Reform Commission, China’s top economic planner.
Some Russian banks have also been booted from the SWIFT global payments system in a move that prevents making payments for trade and financial activities, which could hurt Russia’s ability to export key commodities such as oil, coal and natural gas.
“It is the financial side of the sanctions that worries the Chinese government more, because Chinese financial institutions are deeply connected to the global financial system,” said Zhang at FrontierView.
China is also wary of the threat posed by a direct conflict between nuclear-armed Russia and Ukraine’s Western allies, added Wang Huiyao, president of the Beijng-based Center for China & Globalization.
“This is the first time we’ve seen this happen, and it was quite shocking not only to the ordinary people on the streets but also to China’s elites,” said Wang, who is also a policy adviser to the Chinese government.
However, it was not clear how committed Xi was to China playing a bigger role in the crisis, and some analysts are skeptical of his making any commitment that risks damaging ties with Moscow.
China would likely insist on any peace deal taking into account what it has described as Russia’s “legitimate security interests.”
“Xi may also insist on a partial lifting of sanctions on Russia to spur negotiations, which would raise hackles in the U.S.,” Eurasia Group said. “China’s relations with the West look set to deteriorate further unless Beijing puts more pressure on Moscow.”
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Ukraine-war/China-signals-shift-on-Ukraine-as-Russia-accused-of-atrocities?
Date: 9/03/2022 21:32:41
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858478
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
wookiemeister said:
Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said during a Senate hearing on Tuesday that if there is a chemical or biological weapons incident in Ukraine, it will be the Russians’ responsibility.
She also said the United States is working to prevent Russia from capturing Ukraine’s “biological research facilities.”
Shame on you, Mr Wookiemeister.
This so incredibly out of context as to make me think you are working for Putin.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/03/08/undersecretary_of_state_victoria_nuland_us_working_to_keep_russian_forces_out_of_ukraines_biological_research_facilities.html
Nb: Most biological research facilities around the world are about getting better plant varieties for food production.
Yeah, we have some in town here. entirely agricultural.
‘Biological’ is a very broad term.
yeah
all that biological research must have been very important because they are destroying it before the russians get there
Date: 9/03/2022 21:34:27
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858480
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
China signals shift on Ukraine as Russia accused of atrocities
Xi calls conflict a ‘war’ for first time as it threatens No. 2 economy
Reuters
CK TAN, Nikkei staff writer
March 9, 2022 18:13 JST
BEIJING — China appears to be shifting its tone on the war in Ukraine, as Beijing counts the costs of defending a Russian ally accused of war crimes and braces for the economic fallout from Western-led sanctions.
On Tuesday, President Xi Jinping told his French and German counterparts that Beijing was ready to work with the international community to “prevent the tense situation from escalating, or even running out of control,” in his strongest comments yet on the two-week-old invasion.
Hinting at China’s growing alarm over Russia’s invasion, Xi also called for “maximum restraint to prevent a large-scale humanitarian crisis,” as the number of civilian casualties mount, including children.
This was “Beijing’s strongest indirect pushback yet on Moscow’s escalating violence in Ukraine,” U.S. risk advisory Eurasia Group said in a report.
Xi, who is looking to secure an unprecedented third term in office later this year, also used the term “war” for the first time, according to an English statement issued by the foreign affairs ministry, after Chinese officials had earlier stuck to Russia’s description of the offensive as a “special military operation.”
While Xi continued to avoid committing Beijing to the mediator role requested by Ukraine, he praised Paris and Berlin’s efforts to resolve the conflict through negotiation.
“The costs of defending the Kremlin are rising as Russian atrocities mount, and sanctions will hurt China’s energy-needy economy,” John Ciorciari, an associate professor of public policy at the University of Michigan, told Nikkei Asia
China had stood out as one of the few countries not to denounce Russia’s invasion of its neighbor, and it abstained on a U.N. Security Council resolution censuring the Kremlin last week.
On Monday, Foreign Minister Wang Yi said relations with Russia were still “rock-solid” despite an avalanche of criticism directed at Moscow. Wang’s closely watched press briefing came just a month after the two countries announced a new “no-limit” alliance widely viewed as pushback against the West and any expansion of NATO.
“To some within the policy circle, it was viewed as a step too far,” Thomas Zhang, a China expert at U.S. advisory FrontierView, said of the recently announced alliance. “Now the war has given China an opportunity to pull back and redress the course.”
Russia faces mounting criticism for flouting international law in its invasion of Ukraine, for attacks on nuclear power plants and hospitals, and the use of indiscriminate weapons. The International Criminal Court has opened an investigation into alleged war crimes and human rights violations by Russian forces.
During Tuesday’s online talks with French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Xi expressed concern about the global repercussions of a drawn-out war, while hitting out at Western sanctions aimed at crippling Russia’s economy.
“Sanctions will affect global finance, energy, transportation and stability of supply chains, and dampen a global economy that is already ravaged by the pandemic,” Xi said. “And this is in the interest of no one.”
China ranks as one of the biggest buyers of Russia’s enormous oil and gas exports, with energy purchases in the first nine months of 2021 expanding 41%, year-on-year, to $36 billion, according to the Geneva-based International Trade Center.
Russia accounted for some 13% of China’s total energy imports, while China’s overall trade with Russia ballooned 38.5% on the year in January and February, as the two countries economic ties grow closer.
“Due to the high proportion of China’s crude oil and natural gas imports, it will definitely be affected and import costs will rise accordingly,” said Lian Weiliang, deputy director of the National Development and Reform Commission, China’s top economic planner.
Some Russian banks have also been booted from the SWIFT global payments system in a move that prevents making payments for trade and financial activities, which could hurt Russia’s ability to export key commodities such as oil, coal and natural gas.
“It is the financial side of the sanctions that worries the Chinese government more, because Chinese financial institutions are deeply connected to the global financial system,” said Zhang at FrontierView.
China is also wary of the threat posed by a direct conflict between nuclear-armed Russia and Ukraine’s Western allies, added Wang Huiyao, president of the Beijng-based Center for China & Globalization.
“This is the first time we’ve seen this happen, and it was quite shocking not only to the ordinary people on the streets but also to China’s elites,” said Wang, who is also a policy adviser to the Chinese government.
However, it was not clear how committed Xi was to China playing a bigger role in the crisis, and some analysts are skeptical of his making any commitment that risks damaging ties with Moscow.
China would likely insist on any peace deal taking into account what it has described as Russia’s “legitimate security interests.”
“Xi may also insist on a partial lifting of sanctions on Russia to spur negotiations, which would raise hackles in the U.S.,” Eurasia Group said. “China’s relations with the West look set to deteriorate further unless Beijing puts more pressure on Moscow.”
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Ukraine-war/China-signals-shift-on-Ukraine-as-Russia-accused-of-atrocities?
Peace in our time.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:07:25
From: dv
ID: 1858487
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Harsh
Date: 9/03/2022 22:09:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858489
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Harsh
not bullying
Date: 9/03/2022 22:12:52
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858491
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 9/03/2022 22:14:44
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858493
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
LONDON (Reuters) -Britain will step up its production of oil and gas after saying it will ban Russian oil imports at the end of the year, transport minister Grant Shapps said on Wednesday.
————————————
Let’s see it’s the third, Jan Feb Mar, yeah the third month.
Well I suppose it could be still going in 9 months.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:23:51
From: party_pants
ID: 1858496
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
LONDON (Reuters) -Britain will step up its production of oil and gas after saying it will ban Russian oil imports at the end of the year, transport minister Grant Shapps said on Wednesday.
————————————
Let’s see it’s the third, Jan Feb Mar, yeah the third month.
Well I suppose it could be still going in 9 months.
Betchya they won’t. After so many months people will have forgotten all about this promise and they’ll quietly go on doing business as usual. The Tory government under Johnson simply cannot be trusted on anything it says it will do. Only until it is done should anyone take them seriously.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:26:37
From: Michael V
ID: 1858497
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany.
A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine.
The report said the FSB was being blamed for the failure of the invasion but had been given no warning of it and was unprepared to deal with the effects of crippling sanctions.
___
Fucking hell. What is going on at the Kremlin?
Huh!
Date: 9/03/2022 22:27:50
From: Michael V
ID: 1858498
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:


LOL
Date: 9/03/2022 22:31:00
From: party_pants
ID: 1858499
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
party_pants said:
dv said:


LOL
In the film, Darryl “borrows” a set of gates from a posh residence.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:34:14
From: sibeen
ID: 1858501
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

There is video of the incident and the Garda arrested him.
https://www.wionews.com/world/watch-irish-man-rams-truck-into-russian-embassy-gates-gets-arrested-460192
Date: 9/03/2022 22:36:06
From: dv
ID: 1858502
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
LONDON (Reuters) -Britain will step up its production of oil and gas after saying it will ban Russian oil imports at the end of the year, transport minister Grant Shapps said on Wednesday.
————————————
Let’s see it’s the third, Jan Feb Mar, yeah the third month.
Well I suppose it could be still going in 9 months.
Could be the new normal
Date: 9/03/2022 22:39:18
From: sibeen
ID: 1858505
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:

There is video of the incident and the Garda arrested him.
https://www.wionews.com/world/watch-irish-man-rams-truck-into-russian-embassy-gates-gets-arrested-460192
“I have to arrest you, unfortunately”
:)
Date: 9/03/2022 22:45:35
From: dv
ID: 1858507
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-ready-place-all-its-mig-29-jets-disposal-us-2022-03-08/
WARSAW, March 8 (Reuters) – Poland is ready to deploy all its MIG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany and put them at the disposal of the United States, and urges other NATO members that own planes of that type to do the same, the Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.
——-
Hey I don’t know much but why move them further from the “front”. The US already uses Lask airbase, why not just turn them over there?
Date: 9/03/2022 22:51:19
From: party_pants
ID: 1858509
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-ready-place-all-its-mig-29-jets-disposal-us-2022-03-08/
WARSAW, March 8 (Reuters) – Poland is ready to deploy all its MIG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany and put them at the disposal of the United States, and urges other NATO members that own planes of that type to do the same, the Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.
——-
Hey I don’t know much but why move them further from the “front”. The US already uses Lask airbase, why not just turn them over there?
Maybe Ramstein AB has a paint shop that can turn a Polish-marked MiG-29 into a Ukrainian-marked one.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:51:37
From: Michael V
ID: 1858510
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-ready-place-all-its-mig-29-jets-disposal-us-2022-03-08/
WARSAW, March 8 (Reuters) – Poland is ready to deploy all its MIG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany and put them at the disposal of the United States, and urges other NATO members that own planes of that type to do the same, the Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.
——-
Hey I don’t know much but why move them further from the “front”. The US already uses Lask airbase, why not just turn them over there?
Earlier today, US said no, that is not going to happen.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:51:40
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1858511
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
IAEA says it has lost contact with Chernobyl nuclear data systems.
The Chernobyl nuclear power plant is no longer transmitting data to the UN watchdog, the agency says, voicing concern for staff working under Russian guard at the Ukrainian facility.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:53:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858512
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-ready-place-all-its-mig-29-jets-disposal-us-2022-03-08/
WARSAW, March 8 (Reuters) – Poland is ready to deploy all its MIG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany and put them at the disposal of the United States, and urges other NATO members that own planes of that type to do the same, the Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.
——-
Hey I don’t know much but why move them further from the “front”. The US already uses Lask airbase, why not just turn them over there?
isn’t that known as a putting all your eggs in one basket
if the russians attack that ONE airfield they would wipe out all of the aircraft there
i’m glad the military minds are still at work.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:54:19
From: Michael V
ID: 1858513
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
IAEA says it has lost contact with Chernobyl nuclear data systems.
The Chernobyl nuclear power plant is no longer transmitting data to the UN watchdog, the agency says, voicing concern for staff working under Russian guard at the Ukrainian facility.
They are also concerned that although there are 2000 staff there, only 200 have been kept on by the Russians.
Date: 9/03/2022 22:54:43
From: party_pants
ID: 1858514
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
dv said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-ready-place-all-its-mig-29-jets-disposal-us-2022-03-08/
WARSAW, March 8 (Reuters) – Poland is ready to deploy all its MIG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany and put them at the disposal of the United States, and urges other NATO members that own planes of that type to do the same, the Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.
——-
Hey I don’t know much but why move them further from the “front”. The US already uses Lask airbase, why not just turn them over there?
isn’t that known as a putting all your eggs in one basket
if the russians attack that ONE airfield they would wipe out all of the aircraft there
i’m glad the military minds are still at work.
Russia ain’t gunna bomb Germany.
Date: 9/03/2022 23:01:28
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858515
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Russia’s airliners are mainly leased from the West, from companies who now want them back. Also, the supply of spare parts has ended.
‘No better than North Korea’: Russian aviation faces wipeout
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has resulted in its airlines being banned from European, American and Canadian airspace, left the country with leased aircraft it cannot use, and scuttled aerospace industry partnerships with the West.
Russian citizens won’t be flying to Europe or North America anytime soon, with even flights to friendly countries such as China in doubt due to the international community’s ostracisation of the country’s aviation sector, according to aviation analysts.
“Russia will be the world’s largest country with a developed economy and an aviation industry no better than North Korea’s,” Richard Aboulafia, managing director of Michigan-based AeroDynamic Advisory, told Al Jazeera.
“Aviation sanctions are easy to enforce,” said Aboulafia, who has more than 30 years of experience in the aviation industry. “Airlines can’t fly. They will have to completely redo their aircraft plans, which at the moment, are built on Western technology.”
Full Report
don’t worry soon the nuclear airbursts should EMP the flights over the rest of the world anyway and then it won’t matter
Laugh Out Loud

Date: 9/03/2022 23:04:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858516
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Russia’s airliners are mainly leased from the West, from companies who now want them back. Also, the supply of spare parts has ended.
‘No better than North Korea’: Russian aviation faces wipeout
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has resulted in its airlines being banned from European, American and Canadian airspace, left the country with leased aircraft it cannot use, and scuttled aerospace industry partnerships with the West.
Russian citizens won’t be flying to Europe or North America anytime soon, with even flights to friendly countries such as China in doubt due to the international community’s ostracisation of the country’s aviation sector, according to aviation analysts.
“Russia will be the world’s largest country with a developed economy and an aviation industry no better than North Korea’s,” Richard Aboulafia, managing director of Michigan-based AeroDynamic Advisory, told Al Jazeera.
“Aviation sanctions are easy to enforce,” said Aboulafia, who has more than 30 years of experience in the aviation industry. “Airlines can’t fly. They will have to completely redo their aircraft plans, which at the moment, are built on Western technology.”
Full Report
don’t worry soon the nuclear airbursts should EMP the flights over the rest of the world anyway and then it won’t matter
Laugh Out Loud

jet fighters are protected from
EMP
the tornado has/had a lead lined box with the brains in it that meant it could keep flying to its target even with bombs going off left right and centre
(there just wouldn’t be any country to fly back to – it was a one way mission. they’d be flying over a radioactive wasteland)
Date: 9/03/2022 23:24:07
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1858526
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This bloke seems to make regular videos of what’s happening combat wise, and seems to know what he is talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf68pOjBQK8&ab_channel=SpeakTheTruth
Date: 9/03/2022 23:36:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1858532
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine warns of radiation leak risk after power cut at occupied Chernobyl plant.
Radioactive substances could be released from Ukraine’s Chernobyl nuclear power plant because it cannot cool spent nuclear fuel after its power connection was severed, Ukraine’s state-run nuclear company Energoatom has said.
It said fighting made it impossible to immediately repair the high-voltage power line to the plant, which was captured by Russian forces after the Kremlin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24.
Energoatom said there were about 20,000 spent fuel assemblies at Chernobyl that could not be kept cool amid a power outage.
Their warming could lead to “the release of radioactive substances into the environment. The radioactive cloud could be carried by wind to other regions of Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, and Europe,” it said in a statement.
Without power, ventilation systems at the plant would also not be working, exposing staff to dangerous doses of radiation, it added.
On Tuesday, the UN nuclear watchdog warned that the systems monitoring nuclear material at the radioactive waste facilities at Chernobyl had stopped transmitting data.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Shit. Shit. Shit. Shit. Shit.
:(
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv/100893696
Date: 10/03/2022 00:25:16
From: dv
ID: 1858568
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 10/03/2022 00:33:42
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1858572
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“To fight unemployment spikes, Russia’s federal govt cabinet has signed off on legislation that would allow the state to seize organizations that are 25%+owned by foreign entities from sanctioning countries.”
Date: 10/03/2022 03:32:14
From: dv
ID: 1858581
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 10/03/2022 07:32:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858585
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
With water supplies cut, people have been collecting water from streams or melting snow.
Power cuts mean many residents have lost internet access and now rely on their car radios for information, picking up news from stations broadcast from areas controlled by Russian or Russian-backed separatist forces.
Theft has become widespread as people seek food, clothes and even furniture.
Russia is fighting hard for control of the port, which would ensure a land route to the Crimean Peninsula that it annexed in 2014.
Date: 10/03/2022 07:35:34
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858587
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Mariupol. Direct strike of Russian troops at the maternity hospital. People, children are under the wreckage. Atrocity! How much longer will the world be an accomplice ignoring terror? Close the sky right now! Stop the killings! You have power but you seem to be losing humanity.
Date: 10/03/2022 08:14:55
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858589
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Don’t know why this decision should be regarded as “controversial”. Playing some jingoistic Russian military-themed music at a time like this would obviously be in very poor taste, so cancelling it seems the only sensible choice.
But some of those complaining appear to be Putin supporters like the ever-creepy George Galloway.
Cardiff Philharmonic Orchestra removes Tchaikovsky over Ukraine conflict
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/09/cardiff-philharmonic-orchestra-removes-tchaikovsky-over-ukraine-conflict
Date: 10/03/2022 08:21:00
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858591
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The curious case of Russia’s missing air force
Experts had expected the invaders to use their planes to pick off Ukraine’s forces at will
MAR 8TH 2022
More than 60 new planes would be delivered to the Russian air force by the end of the year, boasted Lieutenant General Sergei Dronov, its deputy commander, last summer. These would include Su-30, Su-35 and Su-57 fighter jets and Su-34 bombers—as advanced as anything the rest of Europe has to offer. All had been “tested in combat conditions” in Syria, he assured the discerning readers of Krasnaya Zvezda, the official newspaper of Russia’s defence ministry.
Billions of dollars have been poured into Russia’s warplanes over the past decade. Between 2009 and 2020 the air force gained around 440 new fixed-wing aircraft, as well as thousands of drones. At the outset of war, it was widely assumed by defence analysts and officials that Russia would quickly destroy its enemy’s air force and roam freely over the country, using its air superiority to pick off Ukrainian forces at will.
Yet in the first two weeks of combat, Russia’s air force has played a minimal role. Air activity is difficult to track and Russian air strikes may have increased in both number and complexity in recent days. It is clear, though, that the Russian air force has held back its full capabilities. “Fast jets have conducted only limited sorties in Ukrainian airspace, in singles or pairs, always at low altitudes and mostly at night,” notes Justin Bronk of the Royal United Services Institute, a think-tank in London.
When hostilities began, Russia sent a volley of cruise and ballistic missiles towards Ukraine’s air bases in an attempt to ground its planes and air-defence systems, and to hobble its radars and anti-aircraft missiles. That effort failed. Ukraine had wisely dispersed its air-defence systems, making them harder to find. American defence officials say that Ukrainian air and missile defences consequently “remain effective and in use”—a claim that can be corroborated with open-source intelligence.
A recent example comes from Kharkiv, which sits 30km from the Russian border. Russian forces failed to take the city with a raid in the first days of the war. Since then, they have surrounded and bombarded it with air, artillery and missile strikes. But Ukraine is not defenceless.
Thomas Withington, an air-defence expert, says that the first missile seems to miss the target, its fuse detonating. The second, though, is a direct hit.
The interception was probably the work of a medium-range surface-to-air missile like the Buk, a mobile system that can shoot and scoot, emerging to fire and then hiding away again. Because these sort of systems use radar to find their targets, and radar cannot see over the curvature of the Earth, one countermeasure is for pilots to fly low. That is what Russian forces seem to have been doing.
But it solves one problem by creating another. In recent weeks, America, Latvia and Lithuania have sent Ukraine smaller, shoulder-fired Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, which home in on the hot engines of aircraft flying below roughly 3,500m. The weapon rose to prominence during the Soviet-Afghan war in the 1980s, when cia-supplied Stingers were used by the Afghan mujahideen to take down more than 300 Soviet helicopters and 100 jets. Video footage posted by Ukraine’s defence ministry shows a Stinger-type missile streaking into a helicopter flying low over a field supposedly near Kyiv.
There is another reason why Russian pilots may be forced closer to the ground, and thus within range of shoulder-fired missiles. In its war with Georgia in 2008, Russia’s air force was almost entirely limited to firing unguided or “dumb” bombs. Now it has precision-guided munitions, which can hit targets using satellite-navigation and other means. But it is still using the older weapons, too.
Images which appear to show the wreckage of a Su-34 attack jet shot down over Chernihiv suggest it was armed with unguided bombs. This is telling, says Mr Bronk, because Russia’s Su-34 regiments are “the most proficient and regular users” of precision munitions in the air force when available. Images released by Russian state media show other Su-34s parked on a runway armed with more unguided weapons; others reportedly from Chernihiv and Kharkiv show exploded unguided bombs littering urban areas, including one that landed in a house.
One theory is that Russia’s stock of precision-guided munitions is running low. More likely, argues Michael Kofman of cna, an American think-tank, is that Russia is holding some in reserve, either for later in this war or in anticipation of a bigger one. Either way, the use of dumb bombs creates a dilemma. As Tim Robinson of Britain’s Royal Aeronautical Society notes, pilots can either fly low to see targets and risk getting shot down or bomb from high or medium altitude with less accuracy.
The result is that Russia has lost substantial numbers of aircraft. Stijn Mitzer, an Amsterdam-based analyst and his colleagues at Oryx, a blog, have studied imagery available on social-media sites to establish the number of proven Russian losses. These currently run to 11 fixed-wing aircraft, 11 helicopters and two drones. Ukraine’s government claims to have destroyed at least 39 planes and 40 helicopters, though these figures are unverified. By way of comparison, America lost 40 or so fixed-wing aircraft during the entire five-week air war with Iraq in 1991.
Russia’s failure to take out Ukrainian air defences “is becoming a serious hindrance”, says Rob Lee of King’s College London. It will probably be regarded as one of the “key mistakes” of this war, he reckons. It means that Russian planes cannot freely patrol the skies to ward off Ukrainian ones, and that attack aircraft cannot provide proper air support to troops on the ground. Ground-surveillance and airborne early-warning aircraft must stay back from the battlefield, reducing the flow of intelligence.
There may be a lesson for nato. Russia’s initial failure to gain air superiority could be explained away by the Kremlin’s secrecy over the decision to go to war and a lack of planning time, says Mr Bronk. But in his view, the air force’s passivity could also reflect inexperience or incompetence. Russia’s air force, with less flying time per pilot and lacking in the advanced simulators and extensive training ranges available to Western air forces, “lacks the institutional capacity to plan, brief and fly complex air operations at scale”. The coming weeks will clarify whether that is so.
https://www.economist.com/interactive/2022/03/08/curious-case-russias-missing-air-force?
Date: 10/03/2022 09:34:43
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858602
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Mariupol. Direct strike of Russian troops at the maternity hospital. People, children are under the wreckage. Atrocity! How much longer will the world be an accomplice ignoring terror? Close the sky right now! Stop the killings! You have power but you seem to be losing humanity.
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
Date: 10/03/2022 09:43:04
From: dv
ID: 1858603
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
With water supplies cut, people have been collecting water from streams or melting snow.
Power cuts mean many residents have lost internet access and now rely on their car radios for information, picking up news from stations broadcast from areas controlled by Russian or Russian-backed separatist forces.
Theft has become widespread as people seek food, clothes and even furniture.
Russia is fighting hard for control of the port, which would ensure a land route to the Crimean Peninsula that it annexed in 2014.
I mean there’s a bridge from the Taman peninsula anyway.
I guess it would be easy to bomb out
Date: 10/03/2022 09:53:49
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858608
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
Mariupol. Direct strike of Russian troops at the maternity hospital. People, children are under the wreckage. Atrocity! How much longer will the world be an accomplice ignoring terror? Close the sky right now! Stop the killings! You have power but you seem to be losing humanity.
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
If it’s so easy to believe that Ukrainian forces are attacking their own citizens why are you so quick to dispute war crimes by the Russians?
Date: 10/03/2022 09:59:49
From: Michael V
ID: 1858611
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
Mariupol. Direct strike of Russian troops at the maternity hospital. People, children are under the wreckage. Atrocity! How much longer will the world be an accomplice ignoring terror? Close the sky right now! Stop the killings! You have power but you seem to be losing humanity.
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
If it’s so easy to believe that Ukrainian forces are attacking their own citizens why are you so quick to dispute war crimes by the Russians?
Poo-Tin plant.
Date: 10/03/2022 10:01:12
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1858612
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
Mariupol. Direct strike of Russian troops at the maternity hospital. People, children are under the wreckage. Atrocity! How much longer will the world be an accomplice ignoring terror? Close the sky right now! Stop the killings! You have power but you seem to be losing humanity.
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
If it’s so easy to believe that Ukrainian forces are attacking their own citizens why are you so quick to dispute war crimes by the Russians?
That’s what pseudo-skeptics do.
Date: 10/03/2022 10:03:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858613
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
SCIENCE said:
Mariupol. Direct strike of Russian troops at the maternity hospital. People, children are under the wreckage. Atrocity! How much longer will the world be an accomplice ignoring terror? Close the sky right now! Stop the killings! You have power but you seem to be losing humanity.
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
If it’s so easy to believe that Ukrainian forces are attacking their own citizens why are you so quick to dispute war crimes by the Russians?
Obvious answer: Wookie is a reliably far right troll.
Date: 10/03/2022 10:12:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858618
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The american gov is very concerned that all this research at these biolabs into sunflower oil could fall into Russian hands
Date: 10/03/2022 10:12:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858620
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
If it’s so easy to believe that Ukrainian forces are attacking their own citizens why are you so quick to dispute war crimes by the Russians?
Poo-Tin plant.
I’m an agent of putin
Date: 10/03/2022 10:14:02
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858622
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
If it’s so easy to believe that Ukrainian forces are attacking their own citizens why are you so quick to dispute war crimes by the Russians?
That’s what pseudo-skeptics do.
We are being lied to
Its a game
Date: 10/03/2022 10:15:20
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858623
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
I don’t believe anything being fed to me about this war
They were telling us Iraqi troops were going into maternity hospitals killing babies. A child who had “seen” this was brought forward to recount the tale.
The whole thing was a lie.
We’ve flipped the switch from cv19 to ukraine
I’m sorry – you are most likely being lied to
It will probably come out in a few years that the Ukrainian forces were bombing their own people
If it’s so easy to believe that Ukrainian forces are attacking their own citizens why are you so quick to dispute war crimes by the Russians?
Obvious answer: Wookie is a reliably far right troll.
I didn’t know I was a right wing troll
Date: 10/03/2022 10:59:29
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858641
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/x6os2q6eoSU
Were nazis right wing ?
Date: 10/03/2022 11:10:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1858645
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Would messing with Ukraine’s nuclear power plants be justification for sending in NATO forces I wonder.
If they went critical they don’t obey arbitrary lines on a map in regards to radiation so would be a threat to NATO countries.
Not a good idea to fight near them though so not really much they could do.
Date: 10/03/2022 11:19:49
From: Cymek
ID: 1858650
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ouch for the Russians
The United Kingdom’s Defence Ministry says it is sending another 1,615 MBT LAW, and a small number of FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine’s army.
Date: 10/03/2022 11:22:30
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858651
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Ouch for the Russians
The United Kingdom’s Defence Ministry says it is sending another 1,615 MBT LAW, and a small number of FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine’s army.
That’s a sizeable amount of weapons
They probably hide them amongst civillian foot traffic
Date: 10/03/2022 11:23:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858652
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Maybe the russians will just bulldozer their way across uktaine with artillery ?
Beyond the range of ATWs
Interesting days
Date: 10/03/2022 11:24:57
From: Tamb
ID: 1858654
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Cymek said:
Ouch for the Russians
The United Kingdom’s Defence Ministry says it is sending another 1,615 MBT LAW, and a small number of FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine’s army.
That’s a sizeable amount of weapons
They probably hide them amongst civillian foot traffic
Isn’t the foot traffic going the other way?
Date: 10/03/2022 11:33:52
From: Cymek
ID: 1858655
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Cymek said:
Ouch for the Russians
The United Kingdom’s Defence Ministry says it is sending another 1,615 MBT LAW, and a small number of FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine’s army.
That’s a sizeable amount of weapons
They probably hide them amongst civillian foot traffic
Yes, can hide behind something, pop out, fire, drop the LAW and run
Date: 10/03/2022 11:35:56
From: Cymek
ID: 1858656
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Maybe the russians will just bulldozer their way across uktaine with artillery ?
Beyond the range of ATWs
Interesting days
Interesting in a shit kind of way.
Date: 10/03/2022 11:44:10
From: dv
ID: 1858658
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Maybe the russians will just bulldozer their way across uktaine with artillery ?
Beyond the range of ATWs
Interesting days
And then what? Do they plan to occupy? Then more or less by definition they will eventually have to gain ground control and that’s when they start losing 10000 troops a week.
Date: 10/03/2022 11:44:38
From: dv
ID: 1858659
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Ouch for the Russians
The United Kingdom’s Defence Ministry says it is sending another 1,615 MBT LAW

Date: 10/03/2022 11:45:46
From: dv
ID: 1858660
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
https://youtu.be/x6os2q6eoSU
Were nazis right wing ?
ROFL
Date: 10/03/2022 11:47:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858661
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
Cymek said:
Ouch for the Russians
The United Kingdom’s Defence Ministry says it is sending another 1,615 MBT LAW, and a small number of FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine’s army.
That’s a sizeable amount of weapons
They probably hide them amongst civillian foot traffic
Yes, can hide behind something, pop out, fire, drop the LAW and run
You can do that with the Javelins because they calculate the aiming solution before you launch them, even for moving targets.
Older missiles and more basic ones use something called SACLOS – semi-automatic command line of sight. You have to keep the sighting device on the target so that in-flight corrections are transmitted to the missile.
I didn’t sell missiles, but i learnt a lot about them, because a customer might mention a need for something, and i could suggest a product that one of our ‘affiliates’ might be able to help with.
Date: 10/03/2022 11:47:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858662
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
https://youtu.be/x6os2q6eoSU
Were nazis right wing ?
ROFL
Generally accepted as being a tad to the right of centre, yes.
Date: 10/03/2022 11:55:11
From: Cymek
ID: 1858663
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
Maybe the russians will just bulldozer their way across uktaine with artillery ?
Beyond the range of ATWs
Interesting days
And then what? Do they plan to occupy? Then more or less by definition they will eventually have to gain ground control and that’s when they start losing 10000 troops a week.
Yes, it would be an extremely hostile place to occupy.
Could find most civilians evacuate and its nothing but insurgents fighting back resupplied with weapons and foreigners there without government permission
Date: 10/03/2022 11:56:05
From: Michael V
ID: 1858664
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
wookiemeister said:
That’s a sizeable amount of weapons
They probably hide them amongst civillian foot traffic
Yes, can hide behind something, pop out, fire, drop the LAW and run
You can do that with the Javelins because they calculate the aiming solution before you launch them, even for moving targets.
Older missiles and more basic ones use something called SACLOS – semi-automatic command line of sight. You have to keep the sighting device on the target so that in-flight corrections are transmitted to the missile.
I didn’t sell missiles, but i learnt a lot about them, because a customer might mention a need for something, and i could suggest a product that one of our ‘affiliates’ might be able to help with.
What did you sell?
Date: 10/03/2022 11:57:02
From: Cymek
ID: 1858665
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Yes, can hide behind something, pop out, fire, drop the LAW and run
You can do that with the Javelins because they calculate the aiming solution before you launch them, even for moving targets.
Older missiles and more basic ones use something called SACLOS – semi-automatic command line of sight. You have to keep the sighting device on the target so that in-flight corrections are transmitted to the missile.
I didn’t sell missiles, but i learnt a lot about them, because a customer might mention a need for something, and i could suggest a product that one of our ‘affiliates’ might be able to help with.
What did you sell?
Dreams good sir
Date: 10/03/2022 11:58:50
From: furious
ID: 1858666
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Yes, can hide behind something, pop out, fire, drop the LAW and run
You can do that with the Javelins because they calculate the aiming solution before you launch them, even for moving targets.
Older missiles and more basic ones use something called SACLOS – semi-automatic command line of sight. You have to keep the sighting device on the target so that in-flight corrections are transmitted to the missile.
I didn’t sell missiles, but i learnt a lot about them, because a customer might mention a need for something, and i could suggest a product that one of our ‘affiliates’ might be able to help with.
What did you sell?
Pups…
Date: 10/03/2022 12:11:44
From: dv
ID: 1858667
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
With regard to the Z thing…
Folks are saying that it is just a symbol to denote the Eastern division
Z – Eastern Russian division forces
Z in a box – Crimean forces
A – Special forces
O – Belarusian forces
V – Marines
X – Chechnya forces
Other sources are saying it stands for “zapad” ie Запад meaning West, or various other Russian words starting with З.
But to my mind the weird thing is that they’d use Latin script rather than Cyrillic. Z doesn’t look like anything in the Cyrillic alphabet.
Date: 10/03/2022 12:18:16
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858669
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Yes, can hide behind something, pop out, fire, drop the LAW and run
You can do that with the Javelins because they calculate the aiming solution before you launch them, even for moving targets.
Older missiles and more basic ones use something called SACLOS – semi-automatic command line of sight. You have to keep the sighting device on the target so that in-flight corrections are transmitted to the missile.
I didn’t sell missiles, but i learnt a lot about them, because a customer might mention a need for something, and i could suggest a product that one of our ‘affiliates’ might be able to help with.
What did you sell?
Other military-related technology. Also looked at innovations in other military-related technology that could be adopted, adapted, marketed. Might be a new idea for a field stove, a new design for a pack frame, equipment and mounting racks for vehicles, clever ideas like that. Included a good deal of ‘field modifications’.
Of course, you ended up in the same places as the people who did sell weapons, and you got to know them. Informal relationships get formed, they help you, you help them, and you put business each other’s way. You can end up in some situations that you really didn’t expect to be in, doing things like that.
I can’t say that i’m proud of that time.
Date: 10/03/2022 12:26:03
From: Michael V
ID: 1858670
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
You can do that with the Javelins because they calculate the aiming solution before you launch them, even for moving targets.
Older missiles and more basic ones use something called SACLOS – semi-automatic command line of sight. You have to keep the sighting device on the target so that in-flight corrections are transmitted to the missile.
I didn’t sell missiles, but i learnt a lot about them, because a customer might mention a need for something, and i could suggest a product that one of our ‘affiliates’ might be able to help with.
What did you sell?
Other military-related technology. Also looked at innovations in other military-related technology that could be adopted, adapted, marketed. Might be a new idea for a field stove, a new design for a pack frame, equipment and mounting racks for vehicles, clever ideas like that. Included a good deal of ‘field modifications’.
Of course, you ended up in the same places as the people who did sell weapons, and you got to know them. Informal relationships get formed, they help you, you help them, and you put business each other’s way. You can end up in some situations that you really didn’t expect to be in, doing things like that.
I can’t say that i’m proud of that time.
Would’ve been different though.
Date: 10/03/2022 12:29:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858671
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
What did you sell?
Other military-related technology. Also looked at innovations in other military-related technology that could be adopted, adapted, marketed. Might be a new idea for a field stove, a new design for a pack frame, equipment and mounting racks for vehicles, clever ideas like that. Included a good deal of ‘field modifications’.
Of course, you ended up in the same places as the people who did sell weapons, and you got to know them. Informal relationships get formed, they help you, you help them, and you put business each other’s way. You can end up in some situations that you really didn’t expect to be in, doing things like that.
I can’t say that i’m proud of that time.
Would’ve been different though.
It was. That’s why i stopped doing it.
Date: 10/03/2022 12:31:33
From: Michael V
ID: 1858672
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A second Russian-controlled nuclear facility can’t be tracked by IAEA.
Worrying developments.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/un-watchdog-lose-data-chernobyl-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/100898202
Date: 10/03/2022 12:33:43
From: Cymek
ID: 1858673
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
A second Russian-controlled nuclear facility can’t be tracked by IAEA.
Worrying developments.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/un-watchdog-lose-data-chernobyl-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/100898202
Seems to be deliberate spite in this invasion police action war.
Lets wreck stuff just because we can
Date: 10/03/2022 12:53:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858677
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
‘Putin’s options are limited. His economy at home is fucked, his military is demoralized and, in many cases, totally unwilling to fight this insane and unjust invasion. Putin can’t really back down at this point, or tanking his entire country and embarrassing himself on the world stage served zero purpose (not that there is real purpose here, but I have to assume there is to him). If Russia can actually sack Kyiv and install his puppet leadership (as he wants), the country will surely devolve into a quagmire civil war/insurgency for years to come, which Russia surely can’t financially afford after this.
To be honest, the lack of options is the most concerning part for me. It’s go big or go home to an angry mob and a fresh glass of polonium tea. Like everyone else, I have no idea what will happen next.’
Maximilian Uriarte, creator of the ‘Terminal Lance’ cartoons. (https://terminallance.com/)
Date: 10/03/2022 12:57:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1858678
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
‘Putin’s options are limited. His economy at home is fucked, his military is demoralized and, in many cases, totally unwilling to fight this insane and unjust invasion. Putin can’t really back down at this point, or tanking his entire country and embarrassing himself on the world stage served zero purpose (not that there is real purpose here, but I have to assume there is to him). If Russia can actually sack Kyiv and install his puppet leadership (as he wants), the country will surely devolve into a quagmire civil war/insurgency for years to come, which Russia surely can’t financially afford after this.
To be honest, the lack of options is the most concerning part for me. It’s go big or go home to an angry mob and a fresh glass of polonium tea. Like everyone else, I have no idea what will happen next.’
Maximilian Uriarte, creator of the ‘Terminal Lance’ cartoons. (https://terminallance.com/)
Could see it making Afghanistan look like a cake walk for them.
Hmm lets occupy a nation continuously supplied with weapons and have to be at a heightened state of war at all times as anything if idle is even more of target.
Date: 10/03/2022 12:59:38
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858679
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
A second Russian-controlled nuclear facility can’t be tracked by IAEA.
Worrying developments.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/un-watchdog-lose-data-chernobyl-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/100898202
Seems to be deliberate spite in this invasion police action war.
Lets wreck stuff just because we can
In the case of these nuclear plants it’s probably intended to dial up the “frighteners” that Putin is sending to the West – don’t muss with me in Ukraine, ‘cuz I’m happy to fuck up everything for everyone” etc.
He’s relying on his new “wow, Putin has gone nuts” image in the West to discourage intervention in an adventure that really just reflects the calculating psychopath he’s always been.
And sadly, he probably still meets with approval or at least acceptance by most Russians. We shake our heads in dismay at Trump voters, but let’s remember that most Russians make Trump voters look intelligent and informed.
Date: 10/03/2022 13:01:03
From: Cymek
ID: 1858680
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
‘Putin’s options are limited. His economy at home is fucked, his military is demoralized and, in many cases, totally unwilling to fight this insane and unjust invasion. Putin can’t really back down at this point, or tanking his entire country and embarrassing himself on the world stage served zero purpose (not that there is real purpose here, but I have to assume there is to him). If Russia can actually sack Kyiv and install his puppet leadership (as he wants), the country will surely devolve into a quagmire civil war/insurgency for years to come, which Russia surely can’t financially afford after this.
To be honest, the lack of options is the most concerning part for me. It’s go big or go home to an angry mob and a fresh glass of polonium tea. Like everyone else, I have no idea what will happen next.’
Maximilian Uriarte, creator of the ‘Terminal Lance’ cartoons. (https://terminallance.com/)
Could see it making Afghanistan look like a cake walk for them.
Hmm lets occupy a nation continuously supplied with weapons and have to be at a heightened state of war at all times as anything if idle is even more of target.
It’s also interesting that one of the world most powerful militaries doesn’t seem that great when it’s enemy is able to fight back with better capacity than some under equipped soldier from previous wars.
Date: 10/03/2022 13:05:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1858681
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
A second Russian-controlled nuclear facility can’t be tracked by IAEA.
Worrying developments.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/un-watchdog-lose-data-chernobyl-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/100898202
Seems to be deliberate spite in this invasion police action war.
Lets wreck stuff just because we can
In the case of these nuclear plants it’s probably intended to dial up the “frighteners” that Putin is sending to the West – don’t muss with me in Ukraine, ‘cuz I’m happy to fuck up everything for everyone” etc.
He’s relying on his new “wow, Putin has gone nuts” image in the West to discourage intervention in an adventure that really just reflects the calculating psychopath he’s always been.
And sadly, he probably still meets with approval or at least acceptance by most Russians. We shake our heads in dismay at Trump voters, but let’s remember that most Russians make Trump voters look intelligent and informed.
That’s the worry today.
Terrorists in the past for the most part had an agenda, release our fellow terrorists, give us this or that but today its just to kill people.
Could get someone with a lot of might who wants the world to burn, go down in history as the guy that wrecked the planet.
Date: 10/03/2022 13:13:28
From: Cymek
ID: 1858682
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
You wonder if perhaps the way we govern the planet is completely wrong.
We let people who crave power lead, they have narrow focused philosophy or ideology that often directly determinately affects groups of people let alone the damage to the planet.
Perhaps we elect a smart/intelligent well informed psychological sound person who doesn’t actually want the job but will do it well and then leave.
He/she/they have a cabinet of experts in their field for each portfolio that try to predict the long term impact
Date: 10/03/2022 13:14:40
From: buffy
ID: 1858683
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
Maybe the russians will just bulldozer their way across uktaine with artillery ?
Beyond the range of ATWs
Interesting days
And then what? Do they plan to occupy? Then more or less by definition they will eventually have to gain ground control and that’s when they start losing 10000 troops a week.
Yes, it would be an extremely hostile place to occupy.
Could find most civilians evacuate and its nothing but insurgents fighting back resupplied with weapons and foreigners there without government permission
And it seems Russia wants it for its food producing capacity, at least in part. Farmers might not be good at farming if under occupation…
Date: 10/03/2022 13:18:17
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1858684
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
‘Putin’s options are limited. His economy at home is fucked, his military is demoralized and, in many cases, totally unwilling to fight this insane and unjust invasion. Putin can’t really back down at this point, or tanking his entire country and embarrassing himself on the world stage served zero purpose (not that there is real purpose here, but I have to assume there is to him). If Russia can actually sack Kyiv and install his puppet leadership (as he wants), the country will surely devolve into a quagmire civil war/insurgency for years to come, which Russia surely can’t financially afford after this.
To be honest, the lack of options is the most concerning part for me. It’s go big or go home to an angry mob and a fresh glass of polonium tea. Like everyone else, I have no idea what will happen next.’
Maximilian Uriarte, creator of the ‘Terminal Lance’ cartoons. (https://terminallance.com/)
That is pretty much my take on it. Although what Russia is demanding from Ukraine to end hostilities is pretty promising.
Date: 10/03/2022 13:21:05
From: Cymek
ID: 1858685
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Streaming services are pulling out as well
The Russians will probably end up with Putinflix, home videos of shirtless men riding horses
Date: 10/03/2022 13:22:26
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1858686
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
A second Russian-controlled nuclear facility can’t be tracked by IAEA.
Worrying developments.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/un-watchdog-lose-data-chernobyl-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/100898202
Seems to be deliberate spite in this invasion police action war.
Lets wreck stuff just because we can
In the case of these nuclear plants it’s probably intended to dial up the “frighteners” that Putin is sending to the West – don’t muss with me in Ukraine, ‘cuz I’m happy to fuck up everything for everyone” etc.
He’s relying on his new “wow, Putin has gone nuts” image in the West to discourage intervention in an adventure that really just reflects the calculating psychopath he’s always been.
And sadly, he probably still meets with approval or at least acceptance by most Russians. We shake our heads in dismay at Trump voters, but let’s remember that most Russians make Trump voters look intelligent and informed.
It is increasingly looking like the eussians have taken over the nuclear power stations as a means of controlling the power in the country. There has really been no carelessness involved, they have looked after the things pretty well
Date: 10/03/2022 13:27:01
From: dv
ID: 1858688
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

I don’t endorse this scurrilous antiscouse propaganda but it did give me a smile
Date: 10/03/2022 13:28:04
From: Cymek
ID: 1858689
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
Cymek said:
Seems to be deliberate spite in this invasion police action war.
Lets wreck stuff just because we can
In the case of these nuclear plants it’s probably intended to dial up the “frighteners” that Putin is sending to the West – don’t muss with me in Ukraine, ‘cuz I’m happy to fuck up everything for everyone” etc.
He’s relying on his new “wow, Putin has gone nuts” image in the West to discourage intervention in an adventure that really just reflects the calculating psychopath he’s always been.
And sadly, he probably still meets with approval or at least acceptance by most Russians. We shake our heads in dismay at Trump voters, but let’s remember that most Russians make Trump voters look intelligent and informed.
It is increasingly looking like the eussians have taken over the nuclear power stations as a means of controlling the power in the country. There has really been no carelessness involved, they have looked after the things pretty well
Instead of firing could they just not use harsh language, don’t want no thermonuclear explosions
Date: 10/03/2022 13:28:43
From: Cymek
ID: 1858690
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I don’t endorse this scurrilous antiscouse propaganda but it did give me a smile
Cheeky but funny
Date: 10/03/2022 13:34:13
From: esselte
ID: 1858691
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
You wonder if perhaps the way we govern the planet is completely wrong.
We let people who crave power lead, they have narrow focused philosophy or ideology that often directly determinately affects groups of people let alone the damage to the planet.
Perhaps we elect a smart/intelligent well informed psychological sound person who doesn’t actually want the job but will do it well and then leave.
He/she/they have a cabinet of experts in their field for each portfolio that try to predict the long term impact
Vote 1 Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus!
Cincinnatus was a conservative opponent in support of the rights of the plebeians (the common citizens) who fell into poverty because of his son Caeso Quinctius’s violent opposition to their desire for a written code of equally enforced laws. Despite his old age, he worked his own small farm until an invasion prompted his fellow citizens to call for his leadership. He came from his plough to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory in only 16 days, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm. His success and immediate resignation of his near-absolute authority with the end of this crisis (traditionally dated to 458 BC) has often been cited as an example of outstanding leadership, service to the greater good, civic virtue, humility, and modesty.
On the nomination of his brother or nephew Titus Quinctius Capitolinus Barbatus, Cincinnatus came out of retirement for a second term as dictator in 439 BC….(until) with the crisis resolved, Cincinnatus again resigned his commission, having served 21 days
Date: 10/03/2022 13:41:34
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1858697
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
Cymek said:
You wonder if perhaps the way we govern the planet is completely wrong.
We let people who crave power lead, they have narrow focused philosophy or ideology that often directly determinately affects groups of people let alone the damage to the planet.
Perhaps we elect a smart/intelligent well informed psychological sound person who doesn’t actually want the job but will do it well and then leave.
He/she/they have a cabinet of experts in their field for each portfolio that try to predict the long term impact
Vote 1 Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus!
Cincinnatus was a conservative opponent in support of the rights of the plebeians (the common citizens) who fell into poverty because of his son Caeso Quinctius’s violent opposition to their desire for a written code of equally enforced laws. Despite his old age, he worked his own small farm until an invasion prompted his fellow citizens to call for his leadership. He came from his plough to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory in only 16 days, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm. His success and immediate resignation of his near-absolute authority with the end of this crisis (traditionally dated to 458 BC) has often been cited as an example of outstanding leadership, service to the greater good, civic virtue, humility, and modesty.
On the nomination of his brother or nephew Titus Quinctius Capitolinus Barbatus, Cincinnatus came out of retirement for a second term as dictator in 439 BC….(until) with the crisis resolved, Cincinnatus again resigned his commission, having served 21 days
https://creative-analytics.corsairs.network/hitchhikers-guide-to-analytics-ruler-of-the-universe-d1a89e3803af
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy has a few things to say about how the galaxy is actually managed. There is a functioning government, in place since the last days of the old Republic, which is led by a elected President.
The President of the Galaxy holds no actual power for one simple reason.
Open in app
Get started
Creative Analytics
Published in
Creative Analytics
Greg Anderson
Greg Anderson
Follow
May 29, 2020
·
5 min read
Hitchhiker’s Guide to Analytics — Ruler of the Universe
You may sing to his cat if you like
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy has a few things to say about how the galaxy is actually managed. There is a functioning government, in place since the last days of the old Republic, which is led by a elected President.
The President of the Galaxy holds no actual power for one simple reason.
Anyone who wants to be President, and is capable of getting elected to the position, should never be allowed to actually do the job.
The logic is compelling.
Most people in the Galaxy, including quite a few on Earth, seem to think that most decisions are made by one or more computers.
These people are very, very wrong.
Somewhere in the Galaxy, a short distance from nowhere in particular, you will not find a small, unremarkable planet that is home to a shabby-looking shack by a winding path that leads to the seashore.
You will not find this world because it appears on no maps, no star charts. It is also protected by a powerful Improbability Field to which only six keys exist. You are very unlikely to find it unless you know exactly where it is.
Inside this unremarkable shack on its unremarkable world, you might find a very interesting man.
…
Date: 10/03/2022 13:58:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 1858706
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
esselte said:
Cymek said:
You wonder if perhaps the way we govern the planet is completely wrong.
We let people who crave power lead, they have narrow focused philosophy or ideology that often directly determinately affects groups of people let alone the damage to the planet.
Perhaps we elect a smart/intelligent well informed psychological sound person who doesn’t actually want the job but will do it well and then leave.
He/she/they have a cabinet of experts in their field for each portfolio that try to predict the long term impact
Vote 1 Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus!
Cincinnatus was a conservative opponent in support of the rights of the plebeians (the common citizens) who fell into poverty because of his son Caeso Quinctius’s violent opposition to their desire for a written code of equally enforced laws. Despite his old age, he worked his own small farm until an invasion prompted his fellow citizens to call for his leadership. He came from his plough to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory in only 16 days, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm. His success and immediate resignation of his near-absolute authority with the end of this crisis (traditionally dated to 458 BC) has often been cited as an example of outstanding leadership, service to the greater good, civic virtue, humility, and modesty.
On the nomination of his brother or nephew Titus Quinctius Capitolinus Barbatus, Cincinnatus came out of retirement for a second term as dictator in 439 BC….(until) with the crisis resolved, Cincinnatus again resigned his commission, having served 21 days
https://creative-analytics.corsairs.network/hitchhikers-guide-to-analytics-ruler-of-the-universe-d1a89e3803af
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy has a few things to say about how the galaxy is actually managed. There is a functioning government, in place since the last days of the old Republic, which is led by a elected President.
The President of the Galaxy holds no actual power for one simple reason.
Open in app
Get started
Creative Analytics
Published in
Creative Analytics
Greg Anderson
Greg Anderson
Follow
May 29, 2020
·
5 min read
Hitchhiker’s Guide to Analytics — Ruler of the Universe
You may sing to his cat if you like
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy has a few things to say about how the galaxy is actually managed. There is a functioning government, in place since the last days of the old Republic, which is led by a elected President.
The President of the Galaxy holds no actual power for one simple reason.
Anyone who wants to be President, and is capable of getting elected to the position, should never be allowed to actually do the job.
The logic is compelling.
Most people in the Galaxy, including quite a few on Earth, seem to think that most decisions are made by one or more computers.
These people are very, very wrong.
Somewhere in the Galaxy, a short distance from nowhere in particular, you will not find a small, unremarkable planet that is home to a shabby-looking shack by a winding path that leads to the seashore.
You will not find this world because it appears on no maps, no star charts. It is also protected by a powerful Improbability Field to which only six keys exist. You are very unlikely to find it unless you know exactly where it is.
Inside this unremarkable shack on its unremarkable world, you might find a very interesting man.
…
Psychopaths all of them.
Date: 10/03/2022 14:02:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 1858708
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
Cymek said:
You wonder if perhaps the way we govern the planet is completely wrong.
We let people who crave power lead, they have narrow focused philosophy or ideology that often directly determinately affects groups of people let alone the damage to the planet.
Perhaps we elect a smart/intelligent well informed psychological sound person who doesn’t actually want the job but will do it well and then leave.
He/she/they have a cabinet of experts in their field for each portfolio that try to predict the long term impact
Vote 1 Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus!
Cincinnatus was a conservative opponent in support of the rights of the plebeians (the common citizens) who fell into poverty because of his son Caeso Quinctius’s violent opposition to their desire for a written code of equally enforced laws. Despite his old age, he worked his own small farm until an invasion prompted his fellow citizens to call for his leadership. He came from his plough to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory in only 16 days, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm. His success and immediate resignation of his near-absolute authority with the end of this crisis (traditionally dated to 458 BC) has often been cited as an example of outstanding leadership, service to the greater good, civic virtue, humility, and modesty.
On the nomination of his brother or nephew Titus Quinctius Capitolinus Barbatus, Cincinnatus came out of retirement for a second term as dictator in 439 BC….(until) with the crisis resolved, Cincinnatus again resigned his commission, having served 21 days
Ta.
Date: 10/03/2022 14:10:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1858715
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/ukraine-hospital-hit-by-air-strike-what-we-know-mariupol-russia/100897720
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/photos-ukraine-devastation-mariupol-russia-air-strike-hospital/100897562
Date: 10/03/2022 14:13:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 1858717
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/un-watchdog-lose-data-chernobyl-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/100898202
Wookie is right in a way. There is a game being played here.
Date: 10/03/2022 14:17:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858719
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 10/03/2022 14:18:55
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858721
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
You wonder if perhaps the way we govern the planet is completely wrong.
We let people who crave power lead, they have narrow focused philosophy or ideology that often directly determinately affects groups of people let alone the damage to the planet.
Perhaps we elect a smart/intelligent well informed psychological sound person who doesn’t actually want the job but will do it well and then leave.
He/she/they have a cabinet of experts in their field for each portfolio that try to predict the long term impact
just run it with SCIENCE obviously
Date: 10/03/2022 14:19:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858722
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
A second Russian-controlled nuclear facility can’t be tracked by IAEA.
Worrying developments.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/un-watchdog-lose-data-chernobyl-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant/100898202
Seems to be deliberate spite in this invasion police action war.
Lets wreck stuff just because we can
maybe they’re going off-line so the hackers can’t fuck it up
might even be safer that way
Date: 10/03/2022 14:31:06
From: Michael V
ID: 1858723
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/ukraine-hospital-hit-by-air-strike-what-we-know-mariupol-russia/100897720
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/photos-ukraine-devastation-mariupol-russia-air-strike-hospital/100897562
The video on this page is quite confronting.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv/100897344
Date: 10/03/2022 15:13:20
From: dv
ID: 1858732
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A Ukrainian psychologist told The New York Times that Ukrainians should channel their anger for the Russian invasion into “something useful” like making “incendiary bombs.”
“Anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate,” Olha Koba told The Times.
Thousands of people have been protesting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine since the first attack on February 2
https://news.yahoo.com/kyiv-psychologist-suggests-angry-ukrainians-213703547.html
Date: 10/03/2022 15:17:54
From: Cymek
ID: 1858734
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
A Ukrainian psychologist told The New York Times that Ukrainians should channel their anger for the Russian invasion into “something useful” like making “incendiary bombs.”
“Anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate,” Olha Koba told The Times.
Thousands of people have been protesting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine since the first attack on February 2
https://news.yahoo.com/kyiv-psychologist-suggests-angry-ukrainians-213703547.html
They are aren’t they
Date: 10/03/2022 15:22:38
From: dv
ID: 1858736
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia admits conscripts have been fighting in Ukraine, despite Putin’s previous denials
Russia’s Ministry of Defense has confirmed that Russian military conscripts have been involved in the invasion of Ukraine and that some were taken prisoner by Ukrainian forces, just a day after President Vladimir Putin insisted conscripts were not part of the assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/09/europe/russia-conscripts-fighting-ukraine-intl/index.html
Date: 10/03/2022 15:23:02
From: furious
ID: 1858737
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
A Ukrainian psychologist told The New York Times that Ukrainians should channel their anger for the Russian invasion into “something useful” like making “incendiary bombs.”
“Anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate,” Olha Koba told The Times.
Thousands of people have been protesting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine since the first attack on February 2
https://news.yahoo.com/kyiv-psychologist-suggests-angry-ukrainians-213703547.html
Therein lies the path to the dark side…
Date: 10/03/2022 15:31:04
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858739
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
dv said:
A Ukrainian psychologist told The New York Times that Ukrainians should channel their anger for the Russian invasion into “something useful” like making “incendiary bombs.”
“Anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate,” Olha Koba told The Times.
Thousands of people have been protesting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine since the first attack on February 2
https://news.yahoo.com/kyiv-psychologist-suggests-angry-ukrainians-213703547.html
Therein lies the path to the dark side…
Well spotted.
Date: 10/03/2022 15:31:42
From: sibeen
ID: 1858740
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russia admits conscripts have been fighting in Ukraine, despite Putin’s previous denials
Russia’s Ministry of Defense has confirmed that Russian military conscripts have been involved in the invasion of Ukraine and that some were taken prisoner by Ukrainian forces, just a day after President Vladimir Putin insisted conscripts were not part of the assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/09/europe/russia-conscripts-fighting-ukraine-intl/index.html
I find it difficult to believe that he deliberately lied to us. It shakes my belief in his basic humanity.
shakes head mournfully
Date: 10/03/2022 15:49:45
From: dv
ID: 1858741
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
dv said:
A Ukrainian psychologist told The New York Times that Ukrainians should channel their anger for the Russian invasion into “something useful” like making “incendiary bombs.”
“Anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate,” Olha Koba told The Times.
Thousands of people have been protesting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine since the first attack on February 2
https://news.yahoo.com/kyiv-psychologist-suggests-angry-ukrainians-213703547.html
Therein lies the path to the dark side…
IDK … if someone is attacking you it really is normal and healthy to defend yourself rather than, you know, die
Date: 10/03/2022 15:50:18
From: dv
ID: 1858742
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Russia admits conscripts have been fighting in Ukraine, despite Putin’s previous denials
Russia’s Ministry of Defense has confirmed that Russian military conscripts have been involved in the invasion of Ukraine and that some were taken prisoner by Ukrainian forces, just a day after President Vladimir Putin insisted conscripts were not part of the assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/09/europe/russia-conscripts-fighting-ukraine-intl/index.html
I find it difficult to believe that he deliberately lied to us. It shakes my belief in his basic humanity.
shakes head mournfully
Who can we even trust these days?
Date: 10/03/2022 15:54:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858743
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
dv said:
A Ukrainian psychologist told The New York Times that Ukrainians should channel their anger for the Russian invasion into “something useful” like making “incendiary bombs.”
“Anger and hate in this situation is a normal reaction and important to validate,” Olha Koba told The Times.
Thousands of people have been protesting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine since the first attack on February 2
https://news.yahoo.com/kyiv-psychologist-suggests-angry-ukrainians-213703547.html
Therein lies the path to the dark side…

Date: 10/03/2022 16:35:21
From: dv
ID: 1858757
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/kELta9MLOzg
Imagine if Fox News was the only news outlet in the US.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:11:46
From: dv
ID: 1858763
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
10 points if you can pronounce the name of the Ukrainian currency
Date: 10/03/2022 17:21:59
From: Tamb
ID: 1858769
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
10 points if you can pronounce the name of the Ukrainian currency
Hryvnia Pron. ryvnia with an almost silent leading h
Date: 10/03/2022 17:24:32
From: Tamb
ID: 1858771
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
dv said:
10 points if you can pronounce the name of the Ukrainian currency
Hryvnia Pron. ryvnia with an almost silent leading h
And the final a is also almost silent.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:25:27
From: furious
ID: 1858772
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
dv said:
10 points if you can pronounce the name of the Ukrainian currency
Hryvnia Pron. ryvnia with an almost silent leading h
What’s currently worth more? 10 Ukrainian Hyrvnia or 10 dv points?
Date: 10/03/2022 17:30:41
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858773
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The war will go hot once NATO flies into ukraine
Then again, if they do that they’ll need to go all the way and hit Russia as well
The hive mind has been begging for a nuclear war with Russia for years
The Russians should have turned off the gas taps to Europe months ago or even started supplying fully to the east months ago. They could have collapsed Europe at the height of winter rather than invade ukraine – seems to me they are putting the horse before the cart. Then again who knows how they have wargamed this.
The only way forward for Russia is to turn off the gas taps , Europe sinks into chaos and continue with the invasion.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:32:24
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858774
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Less energy
More people flooding in
Currency of Europe bottoms out.
Troops can’t be paid because the money is worthless.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:33:10
From: Tamb
ID: 1858775
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Tamb said:
dv said:
10 points if you can pronounce the name of the Ukrainian currency
Hryvnia Pron. ryvnia with an almost silent leading h
What’s currently worth more? 10 Ukrainian Hyrvnia or 10 dv points?
The latter.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:33:58
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Or the plan was to create the flood of refugees into safe and stable European countries THEN turn the taps off ?
Date: 10/03/2022 17:35:38
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858778
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
The war will go hot once NATO flies into ukraine
Then again, if they do that they’ll need to go all the way and hit Russia as well
The hive mind has been begging for a nuclear war with Russia for years
The Russians should have turned off the gas taps to Europe months ago or even started supplying fully to the east months ago. They could have collapsed Europe at the height of winter rather than invade ukraine – seems to me they are putting the horse before the cart. Then again who knows how they have wargamed this.
The only way forward for Russia is to turn off the gas taps , Europe sinks into chaos and continue with the invasion.
Yeah nah.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:40:08
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858782
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
The war will go hot once NATO flies into ukraine
Then again, if they do that they’ll need to go all the way and hit Russia as well
The hive mind has been begging for a nuclear war with Russia for years
The Russians should have turned off the gas taps to Europe months ago or even started supplying fully to the east months ago. They could have collapsed Europe at the height of winter rather than invade ukraine – seems to me they are putting the horse before the cart. Then again who knows how they have wargamed this.
The only way forward for Russia is to turn off the gas taps , Europe sinks into chaos and continue with the invasion.
Yeah nah.
I’m thinking they will let things get worse ie let things cook for a while
Ea h refugee costs around 1000 pounds a week – minimum. The refugees flooding in from elsewhere see the gates have been left up and they charge in too.
Either way the gas taps will be turned off sooner or later. Germany is shipping hundreds of millions to ukraine.
Ukraine becomes a live fire zone – the civillians all leave to let the armies fight it out
Date: 10/03/2022 17:41:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858783
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine – and both gases are critical to the production of semiconductors.
The price of krypton rose from 200 JPY-300 JPY (1.73 USD-2.59 USD) per litre to nearly 1,000 JPY (8.64 USD) at the end of January due to supply chain disruptions. The war in Ukraine is expected to make the situation worse.
Many countries are likely to be hit. South Korea’s chip industry is particularly reliant (see chart), with companies such as Samsung and SK Hynix finding it hard to find alternative sources for krypton and neon, analysts said.
…
Nikkei Newsletter
Date: 10/03/2022 17:44:00
From: Tamb
ID: 1858786
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine – and both gases are critical to the production of semiconductors.
The price of krypton rose from 200 JPY-300 JPY (1.73 USD-2.59 USD) per litre to nearly 1,000 JPY (8.64 USD) at the end of January due to supply chain disruptions. The war in Ukraine is expected to make the situation worse.
Many countries are likely to be hit. South Korea’s chip industry is particularly reliant (see chart), with companies such as Samsung and SK Hynix finding it hard to find alternative sources for krypton and neon, analysts said.
…
Nikkei Newsletter
~About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine
Is that because it’s the only source or is it just the cheapest?
Date: 10/03/2022 17:47:18
From: furious
ID: 1858788
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine – and both gases are critical to the production of semiconductors.
The price of krypton rose from 200 JPY-300 JPY (1.73 USD-2.59 USD) per litre to nearly 1,000 JPY (8.64 USD) at the end of January due to supply chain disruptions. The war in Ukraine is expected to make the situation worse.
Many countries are likely to be hit. South Korea’s chip industry is particularly reliant (see chart), with companies such as Samsung and SK Hynix finding it hard to find alternative sources for krypton and neon, analysts said.
…
Nikkei Newsletter
~About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine
Is that because it’s the only source or is it just the cheapest?
Radiation decay product from Chernobyl?
Date: 10/03/2022 17:47:33
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858789
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine – and both gases are critical to the production of semiconductors.
The price of krypton rose from 200 JPY-300 JPY (1.73 USD-2.59 USD) per litre to nearly 1,000 JPY (8.64 USD) at the end of January due to supply chain disruptions. The war in Ukraine is expected to make the situation worse.
Many countries are likely to be hit. South Korea’s chip industry is particularly reliant (see chart), with companies such as Samsung and SK Hynix finding it hard to find alternative sources for krypton and neon, analysts said.
…
Nikkei Newsletter
~About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine
Is that because it’s the only source or is it just the cheapest?
Seems it’s the latter:
…
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine adds to pressure on chip supply chain
Production of gases used to make semiconductors at risk as sector warns of ‘scarcity’ and higher prices
FT reporters MARCH 4 2022
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine threatens to pile further pressure on chip manufacturing as a squeeze on the supply of rare gases critical to the production process adds to pandemic-related disruptions.
Ukraine supplies about 50 per cent of the world’s neon gas, analysts have said, a byproduct of Russia’s steel industry that is purified in the former Soviet republic and is indispensable in chip production.
Manufacturers have already been reeling from shortages of components, late deliveries and rising material costs, with companies that rely on chips, such as carmakers, facing production delays as a result.
Many companies, including US manufacturers Applied Materials and Intel, have said constraints would persist into 2023. Demand for raw materials is also expected to rise by more than a third in the next four years, as businesses such as the world’s biggest contract chipmaker Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company increase production, said consultancy Techcet.
“We are in great trouble. We have no rare gases to sell,” said Tsuneo Date, who runs Daito Medical Gas, a pressurised gas dealer north of Tokyo.
When Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, neon prices shot up by at least 600 per cent. Companies have said they can tap into reserves but the rush to find suppliers that are not in eastern Europe is causing shortages and price hikes, not only of neon but also other industrial gases such as xenon and krypton.
Forty per cent of the global supply of krypton comes from Ukraine. The price of the gas, which is used in semiconductor production, rose from ¥200-¥300 ($1.73-$2.59) per litre to nearly ¥1,000 ($8.64) per litre by the end of January, according to Date.
He added that prices had been rising before the war because of supply chain disruptions but said “the Russian invasion of Ukraine is making the situation worse” and that he had recently been forced to turn down orders from new customers.
Companies along the supply chain developed new technologies, diversified sources of neon gas and beefed up reserves after the Crimea crisis, which provided some breathing room. In 2016, the multinational industrial gas supplier Linde invested $250mn in a neon production facility in Texas as customers sought to diversify supplies.
Yoshiki Koizumi, president of trade publication Gas Review, said “the supply of neon, xenon and krypton is definitely getting tighter because chipmakers and trading houses are making more orders in expectation that in the future they won’t be able to get as much as they want”.
Ke Kuang-han, a semiconductor analyst at consultancy Techcet, said the reaction has been “immediate”, adding: “I’ve heard spot prices have jumped several-fold.”
Pricing for neon is agreed through individual long-term contracts with processors and chipmakers and some gas is also traded on the spot market. Several chipmakers and large gas companies in Japan declined to comment on current spot prices.
The mitigating efforts had given companies some capacity to manage the disruption in the short term and they hope the conflict would not be prolonged, he added.
Deutsche Bank said in a research note that inventory levels in the industry typically last around three to four weeks.
Kim Young-woo, a tech analyst at SK Securities in Seoul, said that while South Korean companies such as Samsung and SK Hynix could find replacements for some gases, “supply shortages could be serious for krypton and neon”.
Gas mixtures that include neon are used to power lasers for etching patterns into semiconductors. Shifting away from Ukraine is difficult because it has to be refined to a 99.99 per cent purity, a complex process that only a few companies around the world can do — including some based in the Ukrainian port of Odesa.
Underscoring the challenges, the White House has warned semiconductor makers to diversify their supply chains after Russia’s invasion. ASML, a Dutch company that makes machines used to manufacture chips, said it was looking for sources of neon outside of Ukraine.
Japanese chipmakers Renesas and Rohm said they either found supplies from other markets, such as China, or had stockpiled inventories of neon.
Samsung and SK Hynix, the world’s two largest memory chipmakers, “have plants in China so they will have little trouble getting the gases for chip production there”, Kim said. The companies said the war’s impact on their chip sales would be minimal in the short term.
But in a note published shortly before the invasion, analysts at TrendForce warned that even if alternative sources are secured “product certification will take several months or even more than half a year”, causing “scarcity”.
They warned that “the automotive industry, which requires large quantities of power management chips and power semiconductors, will face a new wave of material shortages”.
Akira Minamikawa of market research firm Omdia said that all products using chips would be affected because only the most cutting-edge semiconductors did not require neon in their production. “It’s not like neon is used in chips for cars but not for smartphones.”
https://www.ft.com/content/ac8733c4-bfea-4499-8a48-4997a77ad33f?
Date: 10/03/2022 17:50:52
From: dv
ID: 1858792
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
The war will go hot once NATO flies into ukraine
Then again, if they do that they’ll need to go all the way and hit Russia as well
The hive mind has been begging for a nuclear war with Russia for years
The Russians should have turned off the gas taps to Europe months ago or even started supplying fully to the east months ago. They could have collapsed Europe at the height of winter rather than invade ukraine – seems to me they are putting the horse before the cart. Then again who knows how they have wargamed this.
The only way forward for Russia is to turn off the gas taps , Europe sinks into chaos and continue with the invasion.
Yeah nah.
I’m thinking they will let things get worse ie let things cook for a while
Ea h refugee costs around 1000 pounds a week – minimum.
Yeah but no. Because refugees are predominantly of working age they tend to be a net boon both to GDP and to tax revenues, unless you do something stupid like keep them out of the workforce. The UK in particular is despo for young workers.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:54:19
From: dv
ID: 1858794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine – and both gases are critical to the production of semiconductors.
The price of krypton rose from 200 JPY-300 JPY (1.73 USD-2.59 USD) per litre to nearly 1,000 JPY (8.64 USD) at the end of January due to supply chain disruptions. The war in Ukraine is expected to make the situation worse.
Many countries are likely to be hit. South Korea’s chip industry is particularly reliant (see chart), with companies such as Samsung and SK Hynix finding it hard to find alternative sources for krypton and neon, analysts said.
…
Nikkei Newsletter
~About 50 per cent of the world’s supply of neon and 40 per cent of its krypton come from Ukraine
Is that because it’s the only source or is it just the cheapest?
That’s really weird. Both are typically produced by atmospheric distillation.
Date: 10/03/2022 17:59:48
From: Cymek
ID: 1858798
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Stinger missiles have been credited as a key weapon in helping Ukrainian fend off invading Russian forces.
Russia’s foreign ministry has called on European Union and NATO countries to “stop pumping weapons” to Ukraine, citing concerns Stinger missiles could end up in the hands of “terrorists” and pose a threat to airlines.
Irony detector broken there
Date: 10/03/2022 18:09:04
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858805
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
furious said:
Tamb said:
Hryvnia Pron. ryvnia with an almost silent leading h
What’s currently worth more? 10 Ukrainian Hyrvnia or 10 dv points?
The latter.
I think that they’re moving to a barter economy.
“I’ll give you this T-90 tank i nicked for a trailerload of feed hay.”
Date: 10/03/2022 18:56:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858817
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
They’re probably not more than 1oo km beyond their own border, and soldiers from the army the west has feared for decades have to rob the henhouse to get food.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ajg1QBp_460svav1.mp4
Date: 10/03/2022 18:59:23
From: furious
ID: 1858818
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
They’re probably not more than 1oo km beyond their own border, and soldiers from the army the west has feared for decades have to rob the henhouse to get food.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ajg1QBp_460svav1.mp4
Their orders were to kill or capture Ukrainians. Did not specify human so they aren’t taking any chances…
Date: 10/03/2022 20:22:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858832
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 10/03/2022 20:23:41
From: furious
ID: 1858835
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

I hate that song…
Date: 10/03/2022 20:40:20
From: dv
ID: 1858837
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Interviewer: If they do that, if they close the sky, that could exacerbate the situation, make the situation even worse?
Zelenskyy: What do you mean, worse? Worse for whom?
——
Dude says whom, what a nerd.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:04:05
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858853
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
TOKYO
Japan’s farm ministry said Wednesday it will raise the average price at which it sells imported wheat to the country’s milling companies by 17.3 percent from April, nearing a 14-year high, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine stokes fears of global supply disruptions.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:05:07
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858854
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine and Russia account for about 30 percent of global wheat exports and since the conflict began global prices have risen sharply due to supply fears.
Flour Millers Association secretary Andy Worrill said about 70 percent of the wheat used in flour production in New Zealand was imported, mostly from Australia.
Worrill said while its members did not directly import wheat from Russia and Ukraine, other countries that did were now looking to Australia to bolster their supplies.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:07:44
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1858856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine and Russia account for about 30 percent of global wheat exports and since the conflict began global prices have risen sharply due to supply fears.
Flour Millers Association secretary Andy Worrill said about 70 percent of the wheat used in flour production in New Zealand was imported, mostly from Australia.
Worrill said while its members did not directly import wheat from Russia and Ukraine, other countries that did were now looking to Australia to bolster their supplies.
The world food bank gets 50% of it’s wheat from the Ukraine, apparently.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:09:09
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858857
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ISTANBUL — The war in Ukraine has sparked panic buying of sunflower oil in Turkey and police investigations into dozens of “provocative” tweets about rising prices.
In an early sign of the economic impact of the war for Turks, over the weekend shoppers scooped up supplies of the essential cooking ingredient.
Turkey imports large quantities of sunflower oil from Russia and Ukraine. A warning from the Vegetable Oil Manufacturers Association that stocks could run out next month sparked a rush on supermarket shelves.
Tahir Buyukhelvacigil said ships carrying vegetable oil from Russia and Ukraine, which provide 55% and 15% of Turkey’s import needs, respectively, were being held up in the Sea of Azov and unable to pass into the Black Sea due to the conflict.
Problems of payment to Russia and the possibility of the war affecting this year’s harvest in Ukraine have added to concerns about vegetable oil supplies.
Sunflower oil was Turkey’s third largest food import last year, according to the Federation of Turkish Food Associations. Wheat, which is also largely brought in from Russia and Ukraine, was the main import.
According to news reports, 5-liter containers of sunflower oil quickly sold out amid claims of prices rising by up to 25% in a day. Officials were sent to check prices in supermarkets across the country.
The war comes as Turkey is experiencing its worst economic crisis in 20 years. According to Monday, Istanbul Economic Research’s Turkey Report, 60% of survey respondents said their income did not cover their expenses in February as they faced rising food and energy prices.
The official rate of inflation currently stands at 54.4%, although independent economists put the figure at 123.8%. Turks were expecting further hikes in the price of gasoline and diesel on Monday evening, commodities that have already risen by more than 50% since the start of the year.
Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/03/turks-rush-buy-sunflower-oil-ukraine-war-menaces-food-prices#ixzz7N7q1fOez
Date: 10/03/2022 21:13:06
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858858
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine and Russia account for about 30 percent of global wheat exports and since the conflict began global prices have risen sharply due to supply fears.
Flour Millers Association secretary Andy Worrill said about 70 percent of the wheat used in flour production in New Zealand was imported, mostly from Australia.
Worrill said while its members did not directly import wheat from Russia and Ukraine, other countries that did were now looking to Australia to bolster their supplies.
The world food bank gets 50% of it’s wheat from the Ukraine, apparently.
Most likely
Its unlikely much crop will be sown in the fields this year. The russians would most likely knock the teeth out of ukraine sowing much crop.
I would say Australia could fill the gap but they are planning on shutting down urea production in Australia, its been prolonged by a few months
We could use coal to make urea but its obviously been planned to knock out Australian fertiliser production
Date: 10/03/2022 21:14:17
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858859
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The basic plan for the western world is to destroy food production
Date: 10/03/2022 21:14:29
From: Kingy
ID: 1858861
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
TOKYO
Japan’s farm ministry said Wednesday it will raise the average price at which it sells imported wheat to the country’s milling companies by 17.3 percent from April, nearing a 14-year high, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine stokes fears of global supply disruptions.
Western Australia has a record breaking stockpile of high quality wheat. This is the first time in my memory that WA has had a good crop, combined with a high price. Just maybe some of the farmers could pay off their drought debt. The farm machinery dealers will be rubbing their hands together expecting to be selling shitloads of tractors, but probably won’t as all the electronic bullshit on them these days means that the shortage of chips means a shortage of tractors.
A lot of farmers are dragging their old 1970s-1980’s tractor out from under the gum tree, and fitting a rebuilt engine and gearbox, a decent stereo, a new seat, and GPS steering.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:14:54
From: dv
ID: 1858862
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Peak Warming Man said:
wookiemeister said:
Ukraine and Russia account for about 30 percent of global wheat exports and since the conflict began global prices have risen sharply due to supply fears.
Flour Millers Association secretary Andy Worrill said about 70 percent of the wheat used in flour production in New Zealand was imported, mostly from Australia.
Worrill said while its members did not directly import wheat from Russia and Ukraine, other countries that did were now looking to Australia to bolster their supplies.
The world food bank gets 50% of it’s wheat from the Ukraine, apparently.
Most likely
Its unlikely much crop will be sown in the fields this year. The russians would most likely knock the teeth out of ukraine sowing much crop.
I would say Australia could fill the gap but they are planning on shutting down urea production in Australia, its been prolonged by a few months
We could use coal to make urea but its obviously been planned to knock out Australian fertiliser production
I’m starting to think it would have been better if Russia just didn’t invade Ukraine in the first place
Date: 10/03/2022 21:17:18
From: sibeen
ID: 1858863
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
Peak Warming Man said:
The world food bank gets 50% of it’s wheat from the Ukraine, apparently.
Most likely
Its unlikely much crop will be sown in the fields this year. The russians would most likely knock the teeth out of ukraine sowing much crop.
I would say Australia could fill the gap but they are planning on shutting down urea production in Australia, its been prolonged by a few months
We could use coal to make urea but its obviously been planned to knock out Australian fertiliser production
I’m starting to think it would have been better if Russia just didn’t invade Ukraine in the first place
You and your cockamanny ideas.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:17:51
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858864
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
Peak Warming Man said:
The world food bank gets 50% of it’s wheat from the Ukraine, apparently.
Most likely
Its unlikely much crop will be sown in the fields this year. The russians would most likely knock the teeth out of ukraine sowing much crop.
I would say Australia could fill the gap but they are planning on shutting down urea production in Australia, its been prolonged by a few months
We could use coal to make urea but its obviously been planned to knock out Australian fertiliser production
I’m starting to think it would have been better if Russia just didn’t invade Ukraine in the first place
The invasion was provoked.
Unstable minds wanted to keep provoking Russia to do something stupid
Maybe someone knew and started buying up shares in wheat beforehand?
The money made by buying shares in areas affected by this war is used to boost war machines / ammunition to keep the war going.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:20:07
From: Kingy
ID: 1858867
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
The basic plan for the western world is to destroy food production
Ah yes, the ultimate capitalist goal… oh, wait…
“Seize the Means of Production is a widely recognized reference to one of the central tenets in Communism proposed by German philosopher Karl Marx, which prescribes the working-class and revolutionaries to repossess and centralize the ownership of the infrastructure that produces goods and capital.”
Date: 10/03/2022 21:22:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1858869
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
wookiemeister said:
TOKYO
Japan’s farm ministry said Wednesday it will raise the average price at which it sells imported wheat to the country’s milling companies by 17.3 percent from April, nearing a 14-year high, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine stokes fears of global supply disruptions.
Western Australia has a record breaking stockpile of high quality wheat. This is the first time in my memory that WA has had a good crop, combined with a high price. Just maybe some of the farmers could pay off their drought debt. The farm machinery dealers will be rubbing their hands together expecting to be selling shitloads of tractors, but probably won’t as all the electronic bullshit on them these days means that the shortage of chips means a shortage of tractors.
A lot of farmers are dragging their old 1970s-1980’s tractor out from under the gum tree, and fitting a rebuilt engine and gearbox, a decent stereo, a new seat, and GPS steering.
Is the ongoing fracas with John Deere and the right to self-repair an issue affecting Aussie farmers?
Been hearing a bit about in the US.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:24:13
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858871
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
The invasion was provoked.
Yeah imagine the gall to institute free democratic elections and to do so right next to Brother Putin’s Russia.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:29:12
From: Kingy
ID: 1858873
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Kingy said:
wookiemeister said:
TOKYO
Japan’s farm ministry said Wednesday it will raise the average price at which it sells imported wheat to the country’s milling companies by 17.3 percent from April, nearing a 14-year high, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine stokes fears of global supply disruptions.
Western Australia has a record breaking stockpile of high quality wheat. This is the first time in my memory that WA has had a good crop, combined with a high price. Just maybe some of the farmers could pay off their drought debt. The farm machinery dealers will be rubbing their hands together expecting to be selling shitloads of tractors, but probably won’t as all the electronic bullshit on them these days means that the shortage of chips means a shortage of tractors.
A lot of farmers are dragging their old 1970s-1980’s tractor out from under the gum tree, and fitting a rebuilt engine and gearbox, a decent stereo, a new seat, and GPS steering.
Is the ongoing fracas with John Deere and the right to self-repair an issue affecting Aussie farmers?
Been hearing a bit about in the US.
Yes, but it’s not just John Deere, most other manufacturers are doing the same. Hence the depreciation on one and two year old machinery is brutal. The cost of one years depreciation on a new tractor is more than enough to rebuild an old one.
There are only two reasons to own a tractor, one is to wave your dick at your neighbour, the other is to tow a plow.
Dick waving is expensive and ultimately useless. towing plows is what provides your income.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:29:33
From: party_pants
ID: 1858874
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:
The invasion was provoked.
Yeah imagine the gall to institute free democratic elections and to do so right next to Brother Putin’s Russia.
Yeah. Imagine offering nothing but corruption and poverty to a neighbouring country to align with you. Whereas NATO and the EU offer prosperity, with a good track record.
Why would anyone align with you just because they think you’re a nice guy?
What if they think you’re a complete bastard?
Tell him he’s fucking dreaming…
Date: 10/03/2022 21:30:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858875
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I think that i just saw the solution to the Ukraine thing in another forum:
1. Ukraine attacks Poland.
2. Ukraine surrenders, hands over all its territory to (NATO-member) Poland.
3. Russia has to get out of Ukraine or NATO busts them up ‘longside the head.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:30:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858876
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
There are only two reasons to own a tractor, one is to wave your dick at your neighbour, the other is to tow a plow.
Three.
Tank removal.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:31:27
From: dv
ID: 1858877
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
The invasion was provoked.
Incorrect.
Unsubscribe from RT, sirrah
Date: 10/03/2022 21:33:59
From: party_pants
ID: 1858879
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Dick waving is expensive and ultimately useless. towing plows is what provides your income.
… I suspect this applies only to farmers
Date: 10/03/2022 21:35:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858881
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Kingy said:
Dick waving is expensive and ultimately useless. towing plows is what provides your income.
… I suspect this applies only to farmers
Now you tell me.
If anyone wants me, i’ll be outside.
There’s something I need to unhitch from the ute.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:38:31
From: party_pants
ID: 1858884
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
Kingy said:
Dick waving is expensive and ultimately useless. towing plows is what provides your income.
… I suspect this applies only to farmers
Now you tell me.
If anyone wants me, i’ll be outside.
There’s something I need to unhitch from the ute.
don’t get fined.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:41:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858885
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Dick waving is expensive and ultimately useless.
Having performed the experiment, i can say that the first conjecture in that statement is not necessarily true.
The second conjecture, however, does seem to be accurate.
Date: 10/03/2022 21:42:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1858887
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Britain has imposed a travel ban and asset freezes on seven more wealthy Russians, including Roman Abramovich, the billionaire owner of Premier League soccer club Chelsea.
The government said that Mr Abramovich’s assets — including Premier League club Chelsea — had been frozen.
Mr Abramovich, 55, has also been banned from visiting the UK and is barred from transactions with UK individuals and businesses.
The government said it would allow Chelsea to continue playing matches despite the sanctions being imposed.
Mr Abramovich had put the club up for sale, but under the asset freeze, that process must be halted.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/chelsea-owner-roman-abramovich-sanctioned-by-uk-government/100900918
Date: 10/03/2022 21:44:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858888
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
all this asset freezing of rich Russians and somehow it’s supposed to work against a so-called communist regime while actually increasing wealth equality
Date: 10/03/2022 21:46:08
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1858889
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
all this asset freezing of rich Russians and somehow it’s supposed to work against a so-called communist regime while actually increasing wealth equality
Who said it’s supposed to work?
Don’t you recognise window-dressing when you see it?
Date: 10/03/2022 21:46:09
From: Michael V
ID: 1858890
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

LOL
Date: 10/03/2022 21:55:17
From: Michael V
ID: 1858897
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
I think that i just saw the solution to the Ukraine thing in another forum:
1. Ukraine attacks Poland.
2. Ukraine surrenders, hands over all its territory to (NATO-member) Poland.
3. Russia has to get out of Ukraine or NATO busts them up ‘longside the head.
What a cool idea!
Unworkable, but it made me smile.
:)
Date: 10/03/2022 21:55:31
From: Michael V
ID: 1858898
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Kingy said:
There are only two reasons to own a tractor, one is to wave your dick at your neighbour, the other is to tow a plow.
Three.
Tank removal.
LOL
Date: 10/03/2022 21:57:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1858899
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Britain has imposed a travel ban and asset freezes on seven more wealthy Russians, including Roman Abramovich, the billionaire owner of Premier League soccer club Chelsea.
The government said that Mr Abramovich’s assets — including Premier League club Chelsea — had been frozen.
Mr Abramovich, 55, has also been banned from visiting the UK and is barred from transactions with UK individuals and businesses.
The government said it would allow Chelsea to continue playing matches despite the sanctions being imposed.
Mr Abramovich had put the club up for sale, but under the asset freeze, that process must be halted.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/chelsea-owner-roman-abramovich-sanctioned-by-uk-government/100900918
To be fair, he had said he would sell and give all the proceeds to charity.
Date: 10/03/2022 22:13:12
From: dv
ID: 1858905
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
LVIV, Ukraine — Four days after Russia began dropping artillery shells on Kyiv, Misha Katsurin, a Ukrainian restaurateur, was wondering why his father, a church custodian living in the Russian city of Nizhny Novgorod, hadn’t called to check on him.
“There is a war, I’m his son, and he just doesn’t call,” Mr. Katsurin, who is 33, said in an interview. So, Mr. Katsurin picked up the phone and let his father know that Ukraine was under attack by Russia.
“I’m trying to evacuate my children and my wife — everything is extremely scary,” Mr. Katsurin told him.
He did not get the response he expected. His father, Andrei, didn’t believe him.
“No, no, no, no stop,” Mr. Katsurin said of his father’s initial response.
“He started to tell me how the things in my country are going,” said Mr. Katsurin, who converted his restaurants into volunteer centers and is temporarily staying near the western Ukrainian city of Ternopil. “He started to yell at me and told me, ‘Look, everything is going like this. They are Nazis.’”
As Ukrainians deal with the devastation of the Russian attacks in their homeland, many are also encountering a confounding and almost surreal backlash from family members in Russia, who refuse to believe that Russian soldiers could bomb innocent people, or even that a war is taking place at all.
These relatives have essentially bought into the official Kremlin position: that President Vladimir V. Putin’s army is conducting a limited “special military operation” with the honorable mission of “de-Nazifying” Ukraine. Mr. Putin has referred to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, a native Russian speaker with a Jewish background, as a “drug-addled Nazi” in his attempts to justify the invasion.
Those narratives are emerging amid a wave of disinformation emanating from the Russian state as the Kremlin moves to clamp down on independent news reporting while shaping the messages most Russians are receiving.
An estimated 11 million people in Russia have Ukrainian relatives. Many Ukrainian citizens are ethnic Russians, and those living in the southern and eastern parts of the country largely speak Russian as their native language.
Russian television channels do not show the bombardment of Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, and its suburbs, or the devastating attacks on Kharkiv, Mariupol, Chernihiv and other Ukrainian cities. They also do not show the peaceful resistance evident in places like Kherson, a major city in the south that Russian troops captured several days ago, and certainly not the protests against the war that have cropped up across Russia.
Instead they focus on the Russian military’s successes, without discussing the casualties among Russian soldiers. Many state television correspondents are embedded in eastern Ukraine, and not in the cities being pummeled by missiles and mortars. Recent news reports made no mention of the 40-mile-long Russian convoy on a roadway north of Kyiv.
On Friday, Russia also banned Facebook and Twitter to try to stem uncontrolled information.
All this, Mr. Katsurin said, explains why his father told him: “There are Russian soldiers there helping people. They give them warm clothes and food.”
Mr. Katsurin is not alone in his frustration. When Valentyna V. Kremyr wrote to her brother and sister in Russia to tell them that her son had spent days in a bomb shelter in the Kyiv suburb of Bucha because of the intensive fighting there, she was also met with disbelief.
“They believe that everything is calm in Kyiv, that no one is shelling Kyiv,” Ms. Kremyr said in a phone interview. She said her siblings think the Russians are striking military infrastructure “with precision, and that’s it
She said her sister Lyubov, who lives in Perm, wished her a happy birthday on Feb. 25, the second day of the invasion. When Ms. Kremyr wrote back about the situation on the ground, her sister’s answer via direct message was simple: “No one is bombing Kyiv, and you should actually be afraid of the Nazis, whom your father fought against. Your children will be alive and healthy. We love the Ukrainian people, but you need to think hard about who you elected as president.”
Ms. Kremyr said she sent photos from trusted media sites of mangled tanks and a destroyed building in Bucha to her brother, in Krasnoyarsk, but was met with a jarring response. “He said that this site is fake news,” she said, and that essentially the Ukrainian Army was doing the damage being blamed on Russians.
“It is impossible to convince them of what they have done,” Ms. Kremyr said, referring to Russian forces.
Anastasia Belomytseva and her husband, Vladimir, have been encountering the same problem. They are residents of Kharkiv, in Ukraine’s north near the Russian border, which has been hit hard by Russian bombs. But they said in an interview that it was easier to explain the invasion to their 7-year-old daughter than to some of their relatives.
“They totally don’t understand what is happening here, they don’t understand that they just attacked us for no reason,” Ms. Belomytseva said. Her grandmother, and Mr. Belomytsev’s father, are in Russia.
Asked whether they believe that an attack is happening, Ms. Belomytseva responded “NO!”
Parts of Kharkiv have been reduced to rubble, and its city hall is a burnt-out shell. Ms. Belomytseva said she was sending videos of the bombings to her relatives on Instagram, but they just responded with the Kremlin’s oft-repeated claims that the invasion is just a “special military operation” and that no civilians would be targeted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-families.html
Date: 10/03/2022 22:32:01
From: Michael V
ID: 1858910
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
LVIV, Ukraine — Four days after Russia began dropping artillery shells on Kyiv, Misha Katsurin, a Ukrainian restaurateur, was wondering why his father, a church custodian living in the Russian city of Nizhny Novgorod, hadn’t called to check on him.
“There is a war, I’m his son, and he just doesn’t call,” Mr. Katsurin, who is 33, said in an interview. So, Mr. Katsurin picked up the phone and let his father know that Ukraine was under attack by Russia.
“I’m trying to evacuate my children and my wife — everything is extremely scary,” Mr. Katsurin told him.
He did not get the response he expected. His father, Andrei, didn’t believe him.
“No, no, no, no stop,” Mr. Katsurin said of his father’s initial response.
“He started to tell me how the things in my country are going,” said Mr. Katsurin, who converted his restaurants into volunteer centers and is temporarily staying near the western Ukrainian city of Ternopil. “He started to yell at me and told me, ‘Look, everything is going like this. They are Nazis.’”
As Ukrainians deal with the devastation of the Russian attacks in their homeland, many are also encountering a confounding and almost surreal backlash from family members in Russia, who refuse to believe that Russian soldiers could bomb innocent people, or even that a war is taking place at all.
These relatives have essentially bought into the official Kremlin position: that President Vladimir V. Putin’s army is conducting a limited “special military operation” with the honorable mission of “de-Nazifying” Ukraine. Mr. Putin has referred to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, a native Russian speaker with a Jewish background, as a “drug-addled Nazi” in his attempts to justify the invasion.
Those narratives are emerging amid a wave of disinformation emanating from the Russian state as the Kremlin moves to clamp down on independent news reporting while shaping the messages most Russians are receiving.
An estimated 11 million people in Russia have Ukrainian relatives. Many Ukrainian citizens are ethnic Russians, and those living in the southern and eastern parts of the country largely speak Russian as their native language.
Russian television channels do not show the bombardment of Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, and its suburbs, or the devastating attacks on Kharkiv, Mariupol, Chernihiv and other Ukrainian cities. They also do not show the peaceful resistance evident in places like Kherson, a major city in the south that Russian troops captured several days ago, and certainly not the protests against the war that have cropped up across Russia.
Instead they focus on the Russian military’s successes, without discussing the casualties among Russian soldiers. Many state television correspondents are embedded in eastern Ukraine, and not in the cities being pummeled by missiles and mortars. Recent news reports made no mention of the 40-mile-long Russian convoy on a roadway north of Kyiv.
On Friday, Russia also banned Facebook and Twitter to try to stem uncontrolled information.
All this, Mr. Katsurin said, explains why his father told him: “There are Russian soldiers there helping people. They give them warm clothes and food.”
Mr. Katsurin is not alone in his frustration. When Valentyna V. Kremyr wrote to her brother and sister in Russia to tell them that her son had spent days in a bomb shelter in the Kyiv suburb of Bucha because of the intensive fighting there, she was also met with disbelief.
“They believe that everything is calm in Kyiv, that no one is shelling Kyiv,” Ms. Kremyr said in a phone interview. She said her siblings think the Russians are striking military infrastructure “with precision, and that’s it
She said her sister Lyubov, who lives in Perm, wished her a happy birthday on Feb. 25, the second day of the invasion. When Ms. Kremyr wrote back about the situation on the ground, her sister’s answer via direct message was simple: “No one is bombing Kyiv, and you should actually be afraid of the Nazis, whom your father fought against. Your children will be alive and healthy. We love the Ukrainian people, but you need to think hard about who you elected as president.”
Ms. Kremyr said she sent photos from trusted media sites of mangled tanks and a destroyed building in Bucha to her brother, in Krasnoyarsk, but was met with a jarring response. “He said that this site is fake news,” she said, and that essentially the Ukrainian Army was doing the damage being blamed on Russians.
“It is impossible to convince them of what they have done,” Ms. Kremyr said, referring to Russian forces.
Anastasia Belomytseva and her husband, Vladimir, have been encountering the same problem. They are residents of Kharkiv, in Ukraine’s north near the Russian border, which has been hit hard by Russian bombs. But they said in an interview that it was easier to explain the invasion to their 7-year-old daughter than to some of their relatives.
“They totally don’t understand what is happening here, they don’t understand that they just attacked us for no reason,” Ms. Belomytseva said. Her grandmother, and Mr. Belomytsev’s father, are in Russia.
Asked whether they believe that an attack is happening, Ms. Belomytseva responded “NO!”
Parts of Kharkiv have been reduced to rubble, and its city hall is a burnt-out shell. Ms. Belomytseva said she was sending videos of the bombings to her relatives on Instagram, but they just responded with the Kremlin’s oft-repeated claims that the invasion is just a “special military operation” and that no civilians would be targeted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-families.html
That is both saddening and maddening.
Date: 10/03/2022 22:39:11
From: party_pants
ID: 1858911
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
dv said:
LVIV, Ukraine — Four days after Russia began dropping artillery shells on Kyiv, Misha Katsurin, a Ukrainian restaurateur, was wondering why his father, a church custodian living in the Russian city of Nizhny Novgorod, hadn’t called to check on him.
“There is a war, I’m his son, and he just doesn’t call,” Mr. Katsurin, who is 33, said in an interview. So, Mr. Katsurin picked up the phone and let his father know that Ukraine was under attack by Russia.
“I’m trying to evacuate my children and my wife — everything is extremely scary,” Mr. Katsurin told him.
He did not get the response he expected. His father, Andrei, didn’t believe him.
“No, no, no, no stop,” Mr. Katsurin said of his father’s initial response.
“He started to tell me how the things in my country are going,” said Mr. Katsurin, who converted his restaurants into volunteer centers and is temporarily staying near the western Ukrainian city of Ternopil. “He started to yell at me and told me, ‘Look, everything is going like this. They are Nazis.’”
As Ukrainians deal with the devastation of the Russian attacks in their homeland, many are also encountering a confounding and almost surreal backlash from family members in Russia, who refuse to believe that Russian soldiers could bomb innocent people, or even that a war is taking place at all.
These relatives have essentially bought into the official Kremlin position: that President Vladimir V. Putin’s army is conducting a limited “special military operation” with the honorable mission of “de-Nazifying” Ukraine. Mr. Putin has referred to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, a native Russian speaker with a Jewish background, as a “drug-addled Nazi” in his attempts to justify the invasion.
Those narratives are emerging amid a wave of disinformation emanating from the Russian state as the Kremlin moves to clamp down on independent news reporting while shaping the messages most Russians are receiving.
An estimated 11 million people in Russia have Ukrainian relatives. Many Ukrainian citizens are ethnic Russians, and those living in the southern and eastern parts of the country largely speak Russian as their native language.
Russian television channels do not show the bombardment of Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, and its suburbs, or the devastating attacks on Kharkiv, Mariupol, Chernihiv and other Ukrainian cities. They also do not show the peaceful resistance evident in places like Kherson, a major city in the south that Russian troops captured several days ago, and certainly not the protests against the war that have cropped up across Russia.
Instead they focus on the Russian military’s successes, without discussing the casualties among Russian soldiers. Many state television correspondents are embedded in eastern Ukraine, and not in the cities being pummeled by missiles and mortars. Recent news reports made no mention of the 40-mile-long Russian convoy on a roadway north of Kyiv.
On Friday, Russia also banned Facebook and Twitter to try to stem uncontrolled information.
All this, Mr. Katsurin said, explains why his father told him: “There are Russian soldiers there helping people. They give them warm clothes and food.”
Mr. Katsurin is not alone in his frustration. When Valentyna V. Kremyr wrote to her brother and sister in Russia to tell them that her son had spent days in a bomb shelter in the Kyiv suburb of Bucha because of the intensive fighting there, she was also met with disbelief.
“They believe that everything is calm in Kyiv, that no one is shelling Kyiv,” Ms. Kremyr said in a phone interview. She said her siblings think the Russians are striking military infrastructure “with precision, and that’s it
She said her sister Lyubov, who lives in Perm, wished her a happy birthday on Feb. 25, the second day of the invasion. When Ms. Kremyr wrote back about the situation on the ground, her sister’s answer via direct message was simple: “No one is bombing Kyiv, and you should actually be afraid of the Nazis, whom your father fought against. Your children will be alive and healthy. We love the Ukrainian people, but you need to think hard about who you elected as president.”
Ms. Kremyr said she sent photos from trusted media sites of mangled tanks and a destroyed building in Bucha to her brother, in Krasnoyarsk, but was met with a jarring response. “He said that this site is fake news,” she said, and that essentially the Ukrainian Army was doing the damage being blamed on Russians.
“It is impossible to convince them of what they have done,” Ms. Kremyr said, referring to Russian forces.
Anastasia Belomytseva and her husband, Vladimir, have been encountering the same problem. They are residents of Kharkiv, in Ukraine’s north near the Russian border, which has been hit hard by Russian bombs. But they said in an interview that it was easier to explain the invasion to their 7-year-old daughter than to some of their relatives.
“They totally don’t understand what is happening here, they don’t understand that they just attacked us for no reason,” Ms. Belomytseva said. Her grandmother, and Mr. Belomytsev’s father, are in Russia.
Asked whether they believe that an attack is happening, Ms. Belomytseva responded “NO!”
Parts of Kharkiv have been reduced to rubble, and its city hall is a burnt-out shell. Ms. Belomytseva said she was sending videos of the bombings to her relatives on Instagram, but they just responded with the Kremlin’s oft-repeated claims that the invasion is just a “special military operation” and that no civilians would be targeted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-families.html
That is both saddening and maddening.
Yes. The authoritarian regimes like Russia and China are masters at blocking access to the outside world and the free press. They only hear what Putin or Xi want them to hear, and without even a peep of counter information they just accept it.
Date: 10/03/2022 22:39:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858912
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 10/03/2022 22:44:46
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858913
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Michael V said:
dv said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-families.html
That is both saddening and maddening.
Yes. The authoritarian regimes like Russia and China are masters at blocking access to the outside world and the free press. They only hear what Putin or Xi want them to hear, and without even a peep of counter information they just accept it.
shrug children don’t die from COVID-19 either
Date: 10/03/2022 22:57:38
From: tauto
ID: 1858914
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Can someone get a meme going, OME. It portrays One Mans Ego.
Date: 10/03/2022 23:09:20
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858917
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 10/03/2022 23:10:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1858918
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Imperialists Should Be Celebrating That Russia Are Helping To Solve The Developing-World Overpopulation Problem
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-60682966
The war in Ukraine has already caused a surge in some food prices globally, with wheat prices up 40% this month. Both Russia and Ukraine are among the world’s largest agricultural producers and Ukraine is often called “the breadbasket of Europe”. With Ukraine’s southern ports closed by fighting and Russia’s exports affected by sanctions, there are concerns that poorer countries will be hit hard by further pressure on food prices – which the UN says were already at a 10 year high in 2021. The BBC’s Ros Atkins explains why global food price rises appear inevitable as a consequence of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Date: 10/03/2022 23:16:20
From: party_pants
ID: 1858919
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:


There are two options:
1) The UK Tory government are absolute scum
2) The UK Tory Government are Russian agents.
or both…
Try this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiw7DOpf0iE
Date: 10/03/2022 23:18:42
From: dv
ID: 1858920
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Michael V said:
dv said:
LVIV, Ukraine — Four days after Russia began dropping artillery shells on Kyiv, Misha Katsurin, a Ukrainian restaurateur, was wondering why his father, a church custodian living in the Russian city of Nizhny Novgorod, hadn’t called to check on him.
“There is a war, I’m his son, and he just doesn’t call,” Mr. Katsurin, who is 33, said in an interview. So, Mr. Katsurin picked up the phone and let his father know that Ukraine was under attack by Russia.
“I’m trying to evacuate my children and my wife — everything is extremely scary,” Mr. Katsurin told him.
He did not get the response he expected. His father, Andrei, didn’t believe him.
“No, no, no, no stop,” Mr. Katsurin said of his father’s initial response.
“He started to tell me how the things in my country are going,” said Mr. Katsurin, who converted his restaurants into volunteer centers and is temporarily staying near the western Ukrainian city of Ternopil. “He started to yell at me and told me, ‘Look, everything is going like this. They are Nazis.’”
As Ukrainians deal with the devastation of the Russian attacks in their homeland, many are also encountering a confounding and almost surreal backlash from family members in Russia, who refuse to believe that Russian soldiers could bomb innocent people, or even that a war is taking place at all.
These relatives have essentially bought into the official Kremlin position: that President Vladimir V. Putin’s army is conducting a limited “special military operation” with the honorable mission of “de-Nazifying” Ukraine. Mr. Putin has referred to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, a native Russian speaker with a Jewish background, as a “drug-addled Nazi” in his attempts to justify the invasion.
Those narratives are emerging amid a wave of disinformation emanating from the Russian state as the Kremlin moves to clamp down on independent news reporting while shaping the messages most Russians are receiving.
An estimated 11 million people in Russia have Ukrainian relatives. Many Ukrainian citizens are ethnic Russians, and those living in the southern and eastern parts of the country largely speak Russian as their native language.
Russian television channels do not show the bombardment of Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, and its suburbs, or the devastating attacks on Kharkiv, Mariupol, Chernihiv and other Ukrainian cities. They also do not show the peaceful resistance evident in places like Kherson, a major city in the south that Russian troops captured several days ago, and certainly not the protests against the war that have cropped up across Russia.
Instead they focus on the Russian military’s successes, without discussing the casualties among Russian soldiers. Many state television correspondents are embedded in eastern Ukraine, and not in the cities being pummeled by missiles and mortars. Recent news reports made no mention of the 40-mile-long Russian convoy on a roadway north of Kyiv.
On Friday, Russia also banned Facebook and Twitter to try to stem uncontrolled information.
All this, Mr. Katsurin said, explains why his father told him: “There are Russian soldiers there helping people. They give them warm clothes and food.”
Mr. Katsurin is not alone in his frustration. When Valentyna V. Kremyr wrote to her brother and sister in Russia to tell them that her son had spent days in a bomb shelter in the Kyiv suburb of Bucha because of the intensive fighting there, she was also met with disbelief.
“They believe that everything is calm in Kyiv, that no one is shelling Kyiv,” Ms. Kremyr said in a phone interview. She said her siblings think the Russians are striking military infrastructure “with precision, and that’s it
She said her sister Lyubov, who lives in Perm, wished her a happy birthday on Feb. 25, the second day of the invasion. When Ms. Kremyr wrote back about the situation on the ground, her sister’s answer via direct message was simple: “No one is bombing Kyiv, and you should actually be afraid of the Nazis, whom your father fought against. Your children will be alive and healthy. We love the Ukrainian people, but you need to think hard about who you elected as president.”
Ms. Kremyr said she sent photos from trusted media sites of mangled tanks and a destroyed building in Bucha to her brother, in Krasnoyarsk, but was met with a jarring response. “He said that this site is fake news,” she said, and that essentially the Ukrainian Army was doing the damage being blamed on Russians.
“It is impossible to convince them of what they have done,” Ms. Kremyr said, referring to Russian forces.
Anastasia Belomytseva and her husband, Vladimir, have been encountering the same problem. They are residents of Kharkiv, in Ukraine’s north near the Russian border, which has been hit hard by Russian bombs. But they said in an interview that it was easier to explain the invasion to their 7-year-old daughter than to some of their relatives.
“They totally don’t understand what is happening here, they don’t understand that they just attacked us for no reason,” Ms. Belomytseva said. Her grandmother, and Mr. Belomytsev’s father, are in Russia.
Asked whether they believe that an attack is happening, Ms. Belomytseva responded “NO!”
Parts of Kharkiv have been reduced to rubble, and its city hall is a burnt-out shell. Ms. Belomytseva said she was sending videos of the bombings to her relatives on Instagram, but they just responded with the Kremlin’s oft-repeated claims that the invasion is just a “special military operation” and that no civilians would be targeted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-families.html
That is both saddening and maddening.
Yes. The authoritarian regimes like Russia and China are masters at blocking access to the outside world and the free press. They only hear what Putin or Xi want them to hear, and without even a peep of counter information they just accept it.
Yesh but if I had an adult son who called me to say that his city is being shelled and the grandkids are being sent away as refugees I’d like to think I’d listen regardless of what Pravda aays
Date: 10/03/2022 23:28:56
From: sibeen
ID: 1858922
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:


Those willy Irish.
Date: 11/03/2022 00:33:34
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858936
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 00:36:53
From: sibeen
ID: 1858937
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
FREE BRITNEY !
If you read the msn (heaven forfend) you would have found that Britney is now free as a bird.
Date: 11/03/2022 00:44:53
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858938
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:


Those willy Irish.
Let’s assume
200,000 refugees go to Britain
Let’s assume 250 pounds per day per refugee
= 50,000,000 pounds a day
= 18,250,000,000 a year
That’s not including other refugees arriving from north Africa, Africa, Middle East to flee the wheat crisis
Let’s conservatively assume 200,000 refugees as well – remember: this is a crisis
= 36,500,000,000 per year
Every year for the next ten years 365,000,000,000
The VAT can be put up to pay for it
Let’s say this situation is playing out in ten European countries
3,650,000,000,000 across Europe
If we assume this war will be long we can add to the woes of Europe.
Let’s say we have 2 million migrants coming from elsewhere every year
Things will get interesting
The taxes will go up, the productive people of britain and Europe will flee
Date: 11/03/2022 00:50:52
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858939
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I think we can assume as food costs spiral Africa and the Middle East will be going to Europe as fast as they can.
Conflict opens up in Africa and the Middle East- the Arab spring was about no bread.
None are going to Russia, Belarus and ukraine because they are at war.
The russians agree to sell wheat but only with gold
Food riots break out in Europe
Remember the London riots ? That was a prelude.
Russia hires roving squads of Taliban to roam ukraine in summer and bring in the north Koreans fir the winter.
Date: 11/03/2022 00:51:36
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858940
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Germany welcomes millions of refugees
Date: 11/03/2022 00:54:26
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858942
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Millions more migrants pour through the southern border of America
Major cities see food riots.
The red centre insulates itself
American forces are recalled to deal with the riots.
Wheat production becomes more problematic as hungry migrants storm thr red centre.
Date: 11/03/2022 00:54:57
From: party_pants
ID: 1858943
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
sibeen said:
SCIENCE said:


Those willy Irish.
Let’s assume
200,000 refugees go to Britain
Let’s assume 250 pounds per day per refugee
= 50,000,000 pounds a day
= 18,250,000,000 a year
That’s not including other refugees arriving from north Africa, Africa, Middle East to flee the wheat crisis
Let’s conservatively assume 200,000 refugees as well – remember: this is a crisis
= 36,500,000,000 per year
Every year for the next ten years 365,000,000,000
The VAT can be put up to pay for it
Let’s say this situation is playing out in ten European countries
3,650,000,000,000 across Europe
If we assume this war will be long we can add to the woes of Europe.
Let’s say we have 2 million migrants coming from elsewhere every year
Things will get interesting
The taxes will go up, the productive people of britain and Europe will flee
You’re assuming that they are not capable of finding a job and paying taxes. If they find jobs and contribute their labour and consumption to the general economy it might well turn out the be a stimulus.
Date: 11/03/2022 00:55:50
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858944
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Australia accepts millions of refugees
Taxes increase
Food riots inevitably break out
GST goes up 30 percent
Date: 11/03/2022 00:57:53
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858945
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
sibeen said:
Those willy Irish.
Let’s assume
200,000 refugees go to Britain
Let’s assume 250 pounds per day per refugee
= 50,000,000 pounds a day
= 18,250,000,000 a year
That’s not including other refugees arriving from north Africa, Africa, Middle East to flee the wheat crisis
Let’s conservatively assume 200,000 refugees as well – remember: this is a crisis
= 36,500,000,000 per year
Every year for the next ten years 365,000,000,000
The VAT can be put up to pay for it
Let’s say this situation is playing out in ten European countries
3,650,000,000,000 across Europe
If we assume this war will be long we can add to the woes of Europe.
Let’s say we have 2 million migrants coming from elsewhere every year
Things will get interesting
The taxes will go up, the productive people of britain and Europe will flee
You’re assuming that they are not capable of finding a job and paying taxes. If they find jobs and contribute their labour and consumption to the general economy it might well turn out the be a stimulus.
The world’s food supply may not be able to increase significantly
Let’s assume they aren’t productive, wages will fall as a result .
Let’s assume they send that money overseas.
Date: 11/03/2022 00:58:34
From: sibeen
ID: 1858946
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Australia accepts millions of refugees
Taxes increase
Food riots inevitably break out
GST goes up 30 percent
Australia is not going to accept millions of refugees, at least not in one hit.
Date: 11/03/2022 00:59:19
From: party_pants
ID: 1858947
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
Let’s assume
200,000 refugees go to Britain
Let’s assume 250 pounds per day per refugee
= 50,000,000 pounds a day
= 18,250,000,000 a year
That’s not including other refugees arriving from north Africa, Africa, Middle East to flee the wheat crisis
Let’s conservatively assume 200,000 refugees as well – remember: this is a crisis
= 36,500,000,000 per year
Every year for the next ten years 365,000,000,000
The VAT can be put up to pay for it
Let’s say this situation is playing out in ten European countries
3,650,000,000,000 across Europe
If we assume this war will be long we can add to the woes of Europe.
Let’s say we have 2 million migrants coming from elsewhere every year
Things will get interesting
The taxes will go up, the productive people of britain and Europe will flee
You’re assuming that they are not capable of finding a job and paying taxes. If they find jobs and contribute their labour and consumption to the general economy it might well turn out the be a stimulus.
The world’s food supply may not be able to increase significantly
Let’s assume they aren’t productive, wages will fall as a result .
Let’s assume they send that money overseas.
Let’s not assume that. I have no reason to assume that.
Date: 11/03/2022 01:00:20
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858948
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Some countries break away from NATO to stop the refugees entering
Oil, gas, fertiliser is plentiful inside the new eastern block
Outside the walls western Europe is a hellscape of competing interests, high crime, high taxes and has devolved to warlords rather than governments
Date: 11/03/2022 01:00:35
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858949
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
wookiemeister said:
Australia accepts millions of refugees
Taxes increase
Food riots inevitably break out
GST goes up 30 percent
Australia is not going to accept millions of refugees, at least not in one hit.
They will
Date: 11/03/2022 01:01:11
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858950
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
You’re assuming that they are not capable of finding a job and paying taxes. If they find jobs and contribute their labour and consumption to the general economy it might well turn out the be a stimulus.
The world’s food supply may not be able to increase significantly
Let’s assume they aren’t productive, wages will fall as a result .
Let’s assume they send that money overseas.
Let’s not assume that. I have no reason to assume that.
Have you ever been abroad?
Date: 11/03/2022 01:02:09
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858951
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A new dark ages sweeps across western Europe for centuries
Date: 11/03/2022 01:08:25
From: party_pants
ID: 1858952
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
The world’s food supply may not be able to increase significantly
Let’s assume they aren’t productive, wages will fall as a result .
Let’s assume they send that money overseas.
Let’s not assume that. I have no reason to assume that.
Have you ever been abroad?
Yes.
Have you ever met a refugee?
I have met a few over the years.
One in particular I got friendly with through work. He was a driving a truck for a large courier company and used to do daily pick-ups from the company I was working for. He was from Iraq. Really nice bloke. After a while he told me he was leaving for a better job, because doing night school to convert his qualifications from Iraq into something recognised in Aus. I hope he is doing well. His English improved muchly over about 2 years I knew him.
Date: 11/03/2022 01:09:17
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858953
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The strategy for Russia as I see it is
1 cut the food supply, create chaos , millions funnel to Europe
2 cut the energy supply – slowly but surely
3 sell oil, gas, food almost entirely to the east , use some of that money to hire mercenaries to roam the west of ukraine hunting down the volunteers that have started drying up. Returning volunteers from ukraine stage coups as part of the food riots.
Food sold to the west can only be in gold ( European currencies are now wirthless)
Food sold to the east is sold for roubles
Date: 11/03/2022 01:13:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858954
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
Let’s not assume that. I have no reason to assume that.
Have you ever been abroad?
Yes.
Have you ever met a refugee?
I have met a few over the years.
One in particular I got friendly with through work. He was a driving a truck for a large courier company and used to do daily pick-ups from the company I was working for. He was from Iraq. Really nice bloke. After a while he told me he was leaving for a better job, because doing night school to convert his qualifications from Iraq into something recognised in Aus. I hope he is doing well. His English improved muchly over about 2 years I knew him.
That’s one person
A trickle is one thing, a flood is another. They created a task force to try and tackle middle eastern crime gangs here – what happens if millions arrive ?
What I say is the more the merrier , any country that’s happy to commit to suicide is up to them. It’s the history of the world.
Date: 11/03/2022 01:15:39
From: party_pants
ID: 1858955
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
Have you ever been abroad?
Yes.
Have you ever met a refugee?
I have met a few over the years.
One in particular I got friendly with through work. He was a driving a truck for a large courier company and used to do daily pick-ups from the company I was working for. He was from Iraq. Really nice bloke. After a while he told me he was leaving for a better job, because doing night school to convert his qualifications from Iraq into something recognised in Aus. I hope he is doing well. His English improved muchly over about 2 years I knew him.
That’s one person
A trickle is one thing, a flood is another. They created a task force to try and tackle middle eastern crime gangs here – what happens if millions arrive ?
What I say is the more the merrier , any country that’s happy to commit to suicide is up to them. It’s the history of the world.
i’ll take that as a “no” to my question.
Date: 11/03/2022 01:16:38
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1858956
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Anyway
Food for thought
I’ll take a rest from here for a while
I saw the ukraine situation start up and came back here for a while.
Date: 11/03/2022 01:47:56
From: dv
ID: 1858958
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Let’s assume
200,000 refugees go to Britain
Let’s assume 250 pounds per day per refugee
You’ll remember that I already let you know that refugees are a net boon to the economy and to tax revenues in particular because they are disproportionately of working age? Remember? It was only a few hours ago. Write it down for next time.
Date: 11/03/2022 01:52:36
From: dv
ID: 1858959
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
wookiemeister said:
Australia accepts millions of refugees
Taxes increase
Food riots inevitably break out
GST goes up 30 percent
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/28/raising-australias-refugee-intake-would-boost-economy-by-billions-oxfam-says
An annual intake of 44,000 would bring an extra $37.7bn in the next 50 years, Deloitte Access Economics report finds
——
I sense you are still not quite getting it. Refugees, net, add to federal revenue. They pay for the pensions and services of old people like yourself. Write them a big thank you note.
Date: 11/03/2022 01:55:56
From: sibeen
ID: 1858960
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
Australia accepts millions of refugees
Taxes increase
Food riots inevitably break out
GST goes up 30 percent
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/28/raising-australias-refugee-intake-would-boost-economy-by-billions-oxfam-says
An annual intake of 44,000 would bring an extra $37.7bn in the next 50 years, Deloitte Access Economics report finds
——
I sense you are still not quite getting it. Refugees, net, add to federal revenue. They pay for the pensions and services of old people like yourself. Write them a big thank you note.
Jaysus, the way you go on and on, dv, some would think that you’re talking at a blank wall.
Date: 11/03/2022 03:26:39
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1858967
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
wookiemeister said:
Australia accepts millions of refugees
Taxes increase
Food riots inevitably break out
GST goes up 30 percent
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/28/raising-australias-refugee-intake-would-boost-economy-by-billions-oxfam-says
An annual intake of 44,000 would bring an extra $37.7bn in the next 50 years, Deloitte Access Economics report finds
——
I sense you are still not quite getting it. Refugees, net, add to federal revenue. They pay for the pensions and services of old people like yourself. Write them a big thank you note.
Yes refugees do improve the economy especially for the likes of politicians who want to look good and all those who make money from the refugee spending. However the additional population will place additional costs on everyone else by increasing competition for houses, land, etc. And extra infrastructural costs, like roads, transportation, education, etc, whilst at the same time reducing the standard of living for many and creating havoc in the environment.
If you are on the right side of the competition stakes, you will likely benefit from a high influx of refugees and immigrants, but for the young and most others who cannot see themselves ever owning a home it will be a distinct disadvantage. What is needed is less smug, greedy buggers and more people interested in the real welfare of the country, rather than the simplistic attitude of getting on the right side of the ledger.
Date: 11/03/2022 03:44:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1858969
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022-03-10/foreign-farm-workers-pocket-100-for-a-weeks-work/100898622
Refugees will likely end up contributing to some labour hiring firm.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-14/australias-farm-industry-seasonal-workers-exploited-labour-short/100687182
Date: 11/03/2022 08:08:47
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1858982
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Behind enemy lines
Ordinary Ukrainians are resisting Vladimir Putin’s occupying force in Kherson and elsewhere
They might not withstand his darker tactics
Mar 9th 2022
VINNYTSIA
THE TANKS that left Crimea on February 24th took five days to get to the centre of Kherson, 120km or so to the north-west. But on March 1st they reached the centre of the city—normally a sleepy, provincial place, similar in population and distance from the sea to Bordeaux, but now a strategically important part of Russia’s attempt to take control of a corridor along Ukraine’s entire coast. Russian state media heralded the fall of the city as the campaign’s first “liberation”.
The people of Kherson were having none of it. They met the soldiers waving Ukrainian flags and screamed at them to leave. Some of them stood in the way of tanks, refusing to move when soldiers fired warning shots. The city’s mayor and the governor of the Kherson oblast, both of them in effect hostages, insisted that they would take orders only from Kyiv. A week after the occupation began they were sticking to their guns.
Spirited resistance across Ukraine—from Berdyansk on the Azov Sea to Sumy in the north-east—has been backed up by a widespread unwillingness to acquiesce in the parts of the country where Ukraine has lost control. There is no evidence of Vladimir Putin’s soldiers being welcomed anywhere. The mood is generally one of contempt. In Konotop, a town in Sumy oblast, a local woman was filmed asking a Russian tank-driver if he knew about the town’s literary association with the occult. “Every second woman is a witch here,” she told him. “Tomorrow you won’t be able to get your dick to stand up.”
The invading Russians appear ill-prepared for this. This is not that surprising; they have proved ill-prepared for a lot of fairly predictable things. But they do seem to have anticipated a less hostile reception. Mr Putin has told his nation that Ukraine’s drug-addled neo-Nazi elite has been perpetrating genocide and that Ukrainians, especially Russian-speaking ones, needed saving. Film of prisoners of war shows that at least some of the rank and file expected to be welcomed.
In Kherson, Russia has turned off Ukrainian television broadcasts and positioned artillery batteries in the centre of town, but unabashed pro-Ukrainian rallies have continued daily. Initially flummoxed, on March 9th Russian forces detained over 400 protesters in a violent escalation that Ukrainian authorities said represented the beginning of a new repressive regime.
Alexander Mogilinkov, one of thousands to attend the rallies, said by phone on March 8th that the violence of the Russian army has galvanised people in town. Protesters are nervous, he says, and they face a new threat they do not understand. But they are even more fearful of the repression and poverty that Mr Putin has imposed on the nearby regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, which have been controlled by Russia since 2014.
There are ways to win over occupied populations, for example by mending some of the damage and meeting some of their needs. Philip Ingram, once a colonel in British military intelligence, says that civil engineers, medical support and civil-affairs staff are essentials for a successful occupying force. But this has not been an area in which Russian forces have ever excelled. “They are not designed, from a military perspective, to occupy and rebuild,” he says. “Just hold and destroy.”
Locals report an invading army that is hungry, looting, and “out of control”. Viktor Merinkov, the director of a boarding school for deaf children in the centre of Kherson, says the disrespectful behaviour of soldiers had made them no friends. “As far as locals are concerned, Russia has become a by-word for fascist invaders,” he says. His wife Valentina intervenes on the call to urge him to temper his language; the couple have responsibility for eight young students, stranded in Kherson, she reminds him.
The effort to instil fear and thereby compliance is likely to be stepped up as Russia looks to regain the upper hand. On March 8th the Ukrainian armed forces claimed that Russia had begun sending in security operatives to “work” the local population in Kherson. That would indicate an approach to dissent not dissimilar to that already employed in Crimea. Intelligence services there have a tried and tested approach, says Anton Naumlyuk, a Russian journalist who has reported from the annexed peninsula since 2016, which differs little from schemes used by Tsarist political police to sniff out revolutionaries at the start of the 20th century. “First, they map networks to understand who the real opinion leaders are, and they target them. If people co-operate, fine. If not, they start to disappear.” Crimea SOS, a non-governmental organisation, says at least 24 men have vanished in Crimea since 2014.
The Russians may have already started using such schemes in Kherson. On March 7th local media suggested that Oleksandr Tarasov, an activist, had been reported missing after that evening’s protest rally. Mr Tarasov emerged 24 hours later, apparently distressed, and said in a bizarre, filmed “confession” that he had been working for the Ukrainian security services to destabilise Kherson.
Elsewhere in Ukraine, reports are emerging alleging the use of extreme violence against local populations in areas under notional Russian control. The claims include tanks being deliberately rammed into houses, mock executions, hostage-taking, extrajudicial killing and sexual violence. The resistance of ordinary Ukrainian people is strong, but it might not survive such tactics for long.
https://www.economist.com/europe/ordinary-ukrainians-are-resisting-vladimir-putins-occupying-force-in-kherson-and-elsewhere/21808101?
Date: 11/03/2022 11:55:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1859048
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
:(
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/russian-dumb-bombs-kill-innocent-ukrainians-queuing-for-food/100900146
Date: 11/03/2022 12:07:11
From: Cymek
ID: 1859049
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
:(
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/russian-dumb-bombs-kill-innocent-ukrainians-queuing-for-food/100900146
Was just reading that myself.
Don’t know if NATO and others should get involved or not.
The real threat of it escalating outside Ukraine is quite real but at some point a stand should be made as obviously its going to get to the point anything goes.
Date: 11/03/2022 13:04:39
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859060
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
:(
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/russian-dumb-bombs-kill-innocent-ukrainians-queuing-for-food/100900146
It isn’t the first time.
When the Russians were closing in on Berlin in 1945, they shelled the city quite indiscriminately. There were occasions when the shells would kill people queuing up for meagre rations.
Whereas once the sound of an Allied bomber would have sent them scurrying for air raid shelters, the German mums/wives would, by this time, stand fast, and simply close up the gaps in the queue past the shattered remains of their friends and neighbours who’d been struck down.
Date: 11/03/2022 13:09:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859061
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 13:09:41
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1859062
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
:(
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/russian-dumb-bombs-kill-innocent-ukrainians-queuing-for-food/100900146
It isn’t the first time.
When the Russians were closing in on Berlin in 1945, they shelled the city quite indiscriminately. There were occasions when the shells would kill people queuing up for meagre rations.
Whereas once the sound of an Allied bomber would have sent them scurrying for air raid shelters, the German mums/wives would, by this time, stand fast, and simply close up the gaps in the queue past the shattered remains of their friends and neighbours who’d been struck down.
And thus increasing the spread of the flu.
Date: 11/03/2022 13:12:57
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859065
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
:(
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/russian-dumb-bombs-kill-innocent-ukrainians-queuing-for-food/100900146
It isn’t the first time.
When the Russians were closing in on Berlin in 1945, they shelled the city quite indiscriminately. There were occasions when the shells would kill people queuing up for meagre rations.
Whereas once the sound of an Allied bomber would have sent them scurrying for air raid shelters, the German mums/wives would, by this time, stand fast, and simply close up the gaps in the queue past the shattered remains of their friends and neighbours who’d been struck down.
And thus increasing the spread of the flu.
well lowering the population density and increasing the amount of ration available per capita would seem to be good Economic Must Growth practice
Date: 11/03/2022 13:17:42
From: dv
ID: 1859068
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 13:20:19
From: dv
ID: 1859069
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine war: Boris Johnson tells Sky News he fears Vladimir Putin may use chemical weapons as it is ‘straight out of Russia’s playbook’
——
I do sometimes think that the fear of chemical weapons is overblown.
Push comes to shove, if they set their minds to it the Russians could kill tens of millions of Ukrainians using conventional weapons.
Date: 11/03/2022 13:21:26
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859070
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
And thus increasing the spread of the flu.
These ladies had become supremely war-hardened.
Anyone who stays standing up under an artillery barrage, and remains in a rations queue despite seeing people who they may know well torn to shreds in front of them by shrapnel and blast, is made of tougher stuff than most combat soldiers.
Date: 11/03/2022 13:22:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859072
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukraine war: Boris Johnson tells Sky News he fears Vladimir Putin may use chemical weapons as it is ‘straight out of Russia’s playbook’
——
I do sometimes think that the fear of chemical weapons is overblown.
Push comes to shove, if they set their minds to it the Russians could kill tens of millions of Ukrainians using conventional weapons.
maybe he means use of ethyl N—phosphoramidofluoridate on home soil or something
Date: 11/03/2022 14:19:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859111
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 14:19:52
From: Michael V
ID: 1859112
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Stepping well back before they use more destructive weapons?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/new-satellite-images-show-russian-convoy-outside-kyiv-disperse/100902058
Date: 11/03/2022 14:26:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1859114
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Stepping well back before they use more destructive weapons?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/new-satellite-images-show-russian-convoy-outside-kyiv-disperse/100902058
Maybe they are salvaging the vehicles with fuel and fed soldiers and leaving the rest behind.
Date: 11/03/2022 14:28:32
From: Michael V
ID: 1859118
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

Ooh-ah.
:)
Date: 11/03/2022 14:37:25
From: Cymek
ID: 1859124
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
So are these leased aircraft essentially abandoned in Russia by the owners.
If so they can still just continue flying them and not pay
Russia’s Ministry of Transport prepares a draft regulation which would allow airlines to not have to honour the request of the lessor to return leased aircraft unless a special government commission orders them to do so and would also allow companies to pay the lessor in rubles.
The law comes amid EU sanctions which forces all lease contracts for Russian aircraft to be voided by late March and also forbids E.U. companies from insuring Russian aircraft. (Interfax Russia)
Russia introduces retaliatory sanctions against most foreign countries, with the exception of members of the Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union. The export of more than 200 items, mostly of technical and agricultural appliances, will also be banned until the end of the year. (Interfax Russia)
The Russian government abolishes penalties for theft of patents if they are held by natural or legal persons from countries considered by the Russian government as “unfriendly”. The decriminalisation of the piracy of software from “unfriendly” countries is also being considered. (Euractiv) (The Register)
Date: 11/03/2022 15:04:37
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859133
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Russia’s Ministry of Transport prepares a draft regulation which would allow airlines to not have to honour the request of the lessor to return leased aircraft unless a special government commission orders them to do so and would also allow companies to pay the lessor in rubles.
That’s all very well for them, as long as they keep the planes flying around only inside Russia.
Have them land at any of a vast number of airports outside of Russia, and they’re unlikely to be allowed to fly out again.
Date: 11/03/2022 15:09:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1859137
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Russia’s Ministry of Transport prepares a draft regulation which would allow airlines to not have to honour the request of the lessor to return leased aircraft unless a special government commission orders them to do so and would also allow companies to pay the lessor in rubles.
That’s all very well for them, as long as they keep the planes flying around only inside Russia.
Have them land at any of a vast number of airports outside of Russia, and they’re unlikely to be allowed to fly out again.
Yes
Date: 11/03/2022 15:13:42
From: dv
ID: 1859141
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://7news.com.au/news/world/japan-renews-island-dispute-with-russia-c-5980182
Date: 11/03/2022 15:21:08
From: dv
ID: 1859143
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The clouds temporarily clearing around the Ukrainian capital, new satellite images taken earlier on Thursday show that the Russian military convoy northwest of Kyiv that stretched more than 40 miles (more than 64 kilometers) has “largely dispersed and redeployed,” Maxar Technologies says.
The satellite images show that some elements of the convoy have “repositioned” into forests and treelined areas near Lubyanka, Ukraine, according to Maxar. The satellite images were taken at 11:37 a.m. Kyiv time (4.37 a.m. ET) on Thursday.
Just north of the Antonov Airbase in Hostomel, Ukraine, Russian military vehicles are seen sitting on roadways in residential areas in the town of Ozera — 17 miles northwest of Kyiv.
Towed artillery and other vehicles are seen taking cover in a sparse patches of trees near Lubyanka — about three miles northwest of the Antonov Airbase.
In Berestyanka — 10 miles west of the airbase — a number of fuel trucks and, what Maxar says, appears to be multiple rocket launchers are seen positioned in a field near trees.
Southeast of Ivankiv — the end of what was the 40+ mile convoy — a number of trucks and equipment are still seen on the roadway.
Date: 11/03/2022 15:23:28
From: esselte
ID: 1859144
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukraine war: Boris Johnson tells Sky News he fears Vladimir Putin may use chemical weapons as it is ‘straight out of Russia’s playbook’
——
I do sometimes think that the fear of chemical weapons is overblown.
Push comes to shove, if they set their minds to it the Russians could kill tens of millions of Ukrainians using conventional weapons.
It’s the psychological factor, not the ability to cause mass death.
I mentioned a few days ago the Assad use of chemical weapons in Douma. Rebels held the area for 6 years, and were able to do so because they had the support of the local people and a whole lot of safe-houses with move-the-table-roll-up-the-rug-lift-the-trap-door deals leading in to an extensive tunnel network where they could hide from Syrian forces. The locals persevered through bombing campaigns, infantry attacks, all that kind of stuff, but when Assad dropped chemical weapons on the place, the next morning the Syrian government was supplying buses to transport the rebel forces to some rebel held town in the north. The rebels lost the support of the locals overnight because chemical weapons were used.
Also bear in mind the US invasion of Iraq. “Shock and Awe” was a military doctrine specifically designed to produce psychological results in the local populations similar to those produced on the Japanese when the Big Booms were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They wanted the psychological effects of a nuclear attack without having to suffer the shit-show of condemnation from other nations had they used nukes.
The use of non-conventional weapons is massively psychologically damaging to the population attacked and reduces that populations ability to defend itself significantly.
If Russia uses chemical weapons in Kyiv, not only will the Ukranians likely lose much of their will to fight, but Putin will win without having to even cause too much damage to infrastructure. Just wait for the chemicals to blow away in the wind.
Date: 11/03/2022 15:24:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859145
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://7news.com.au/news/world/japan-renews-island-dispute-with-russia-c-5980182
fk at this rate it’s probably time for all the fuckers in all the other populations around the world to just capitulate and turn their territories over to Khoisan or something
Date: 11/03/2022 15:37:45
From: dv
ID: 1859147
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 15:38:10
From: dv
ID: 1859148
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 15:39:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859151
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Stepping well back before they use more destructive weapons?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/new-satellite-images-show-russian-convoy-outside-kyiv-disperse/100902058
Vehicles identified as resupply trucks and probable multiple rocket launchers were located by Maxar moving into firing position in Berestyanka, to Kyiv’s northwest.
Some of the vehicles have moved into forests in nearby Lubyanka, Maxar reported.
The satellite images following the convoy over recent days showed trucks appearing to carry self-propelled artillery pieces alongside BMP3 armoured carriers and Russian tanks.
Amassing for another go at encircling.
Date: 11/03/2022 15:41:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859154
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
If Russia uses chemical weapons in Kyiv, not only will the Ukranians likely lose much of their will to fight, but Putin will win without having to even cause too much damage to infrastructure. Just wait for the chemicals to blow away in the wind.
You have to be choosy about the chemical agents you use. Some have very long persistence indeed. Depends on what your mid- to long-term aims are for the place.
Date: 11/03/2022 15:45:25
From: dv
ID: 1859157
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 15:49:26
From: Michael V
ID: 1859159
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Russia’s Ministry of Transport prepares a draft regulation which would allow airlines to not have to honour the request of the lessor to return leased aircraft unless a special government commission orders them to do so and would also allow companies to pay the lessor in rubles.
That’s all very well for them, as long as they keep the planes flying around only inside Russia.
Have them land at any of a vast number of airports outside of Russia, and they’re unlikely to be allowed to fly out again.
And they won’t be flying for long. They won’t have parts…
Date: 11/03/2022 15:49:50
From: dv
ID: 1859161
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Constanze Stelzenmüller is speaking on DW News.
Her English accent is astounding. She sounds like a Duchess.
Date: 11/03/2022 15:50:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859162
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Constanze Stelzenmüller is speaking on DW News.
Her English accent is astounding. She sounds like a Duchess.
Could be a countess.
Date: 11/03/2022 16:02:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1859170
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
esselte said:
If Russia uses chemical weapons in Kyiv, not only will the Ukranians likely lose much of their will to fight, but Putin will win without having to even cause too much damage to infrastructure. Just wait for the chemicals to blow away in the wind.
You have to be choosy about the chemical agents you use. Some have very long persistence indeed. Depends on what your mid- to long-term aims are for the place.
If chemical weapons are used then all bets should be off and NATO trundles into Ukraine to fight the Russians.
If we don’t then its just another disgrace to add to the list of human atrocities
Date: 11/03/2022 16:07:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859171
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
esselte said:
If Russia uses chemical weapons in Kyiv, not only will the Ukranians likely lose much of their will to fight, but Putin will win without having to even cause too much damage to infrastructure. Just wait for the chemicals to blow away in the wind.
You have to be choosy about the chemical agents you use. Some have very long persistence indeed. Depends on what your mid- to long-term aims are for the place.
If chemical weapons are used then all bets should be off and NATO trundles into Ukraine to fight the Russians.
If we don’t then its just another disgrace to add to the list of human atrocities
As much a i fear the escalation and outcomes, i think you’re right. There’s got to be a point where it becomes too much to stand by and let happen.
Date: 11/03/2022 16:08:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859172
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 16:09:47
From: esselte
ID: 1859173
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
esselte said:
If Russia uses chemical weapons in Kyiv, not only will the Ukranians likely lose much of their will to fight, but Putin will win without having to even cause too much damage to infrastructure. Just wait for the chemicals to blow away in the wind.
You have to be choosy about the chemical agents you use. Some have very long persistence indeed. Depends on what your mid- to long-term aims are for the place.
If chemical weapons are used then all bets should be off and NATO trundles into Ukraine to fight the Russians.
If we don’t then its just another disgrace to add to the list of human atrocities
That’s the thing though.
Retroactively…..
Assad would never use chemical weapons without Daddy Putin’s permission. Presumably, in the instance of Douma, Putin gave permission because he wanted to test the reaction of the international community (and probably specifically the Trump government).
Assad got what he wanted out of it… regaining territory without any real consequences.
Putin has seen Assad using chemical weapons, and can also see that Assad is still in power, was not removed by Western powers, and suffered pretty limited consequences. Right now Putin is weighing up the cost vs benefit of using chemicals in Ukraine, and he may feel that the cost to him and Russia will be tolerable.
Date: 11/03/2022 16:44:53
From: dv
ID: 1859181
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Fox News journalist fact-checking channel’s pundits on air over Ukraine
National security correspondent Jennifer Griffin has been brutally calling out the ‘distortions’ of Tucker Carlson and co
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/04/jennifer-griffin-fox-news-fact-checking-ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 16:46:43
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1859183
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The Fox News journalist fact-checking channel’s pundits on air over Ukraine
National security correspondent Jennifer Griffin has been brutally calling out the ‘distortions’ of Tucker Carlson and co
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/mar/04/jennifer-griffin-fox-news-fact-checking-ukraine
What a job.
Date: 11/03/2022 16:46:46
From: dv
ID: 1859184
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

I’m not the first to point out the Ides approach but I really see a resemblance
Date: 11/03/2022 17:03:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859195
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

we suppose it’s a good thing if we all go to nuclear war at least the concrete targets for nonproliferation will be met and the number of warheads will be far less afterwards
Date: 11/03/2022 17:51:06
From: Michael V
ID: 1859206
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-11/who-advises-ukraine-to-destroy-pathogens-russia-misinformation/100902958
Date: 11/03/2022 18:27:46
From: dv
ID: 1859223
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 18:49:11
From: dv
ID: 1859230
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/78ec1_fzepc
Kenyan envoy to the UN discusses borders
Date: 11/03/2022 18:57:30
From: fsm
ID: 1859236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 18:59:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://youtu.be/78ec1_fzepc
Kenyan envoy to the UN discusses borders
What Would 秦始皇 Do
Date: 11/03/2022 19:04:29
From: dv
ID: 1859243
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/46gs3JJIZyY
Going by our mate Danzig mapper there has been near to zero progress for a week.
Date: 11/03/2022 19:24:24
From: dv
ID: 1859249
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 19:25:24
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1859250
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://youtu.be/46gs3JJIZyY
Going by our mate Danzig mapper there has been near to zero progress for a week.
:-)
Thanks for the update.
In this case no news is good news.
Because everything could very easily turn apocalyptic.
Date: 11/03/2022 19:26:22
From: dv
ID: 1859251
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
One from 2018
This week, Latvian Public Broadcasting reported an astonishing story about how Fox News operates in their country. As unmasked by a local investigation, Russian-language versions of the network’s programming that are broadcast in Latvia aren’t merely translated; they’re edited for content in a pro-Kremlin direction. Per the report, which cites internal Fox News regulations:
“Translators have to follow Russian subtitling guidelines requiring glossing over or ‘softening content’ concerning accidents, homosexual relationships, ‘anti-Russian propaganda,’ narcotics, extremist activities and suicides. For instance, the translators are instructed to ‘soften’ all negative language about the Russian military and space program, policies of the Russian president and government, while positive texts about same-sex relationships have to be made more generalized so they could be attributed to relationships of any kind.”
https://observer.com/2018/04/report-says-fox-news-allows-putin-regime-to-edit-content-in-latvia/
Date: 11/03/2022 19:57:10
From: Michael V
ID: 1859259
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

LOLOL
Nice one.
Date: 11/03/2022 20:00:10
From: Michael V
ID: 1859261
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
Thumbs up!
Date: 11/03/2022 20:27:43
From: dv
ID: 1859279
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 11/03/2022 20:31:15
From: dv
ID: 1859285
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Former Secretary of State H.D.Clinton discusses the invasion.
https://youtu.be/Pi8z_HdZysc
Date: 11/03/2022 21:06:26
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859305
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Looks like someone recovered the transponder from the destroyed Antanov, changed the callsign and did lapping of Kyiv.


Date: 11/03/2022 22:16:53
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1859330
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Looks like someone recovered the transponder from the destroyed Antanov, changed the callsign and did lapping of Kyiv.


Nah every airliner has a transponder and you can dial in any code you like, they aren’t specific to any one plane. The plane on that picture would have had to have a flight plan submitted as the An-225. It’s obviously not though.
Date: 11/03/2022 22:28:25
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859334
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
Looks like someone recovered the transponder from the destroyed Antanov, changed the callsign and did lapping of Kyiv.


Nah every airliner has a transponder and you can dial in any code you like, they aren’t specific to any one plane. The plane on that picture would have had to have a flight plan submitted as the An-225. It’s obviously not though.
Ah, ok. Thanks.
Date: 11/03/2022 22:29:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859335
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Dark Orange said:
Looks like someone recovered the transponder from the destroyed Antanov, changed the callsign and did lapping of Kyiv.


Nah every airliner has a transponder and you can dial in any code you like, they aren’t specific to any one plane. The plane on that picture would have had to have a flight plan submitted as the An-225. It’s obviously not though.
The Ghost of Kyiv…
Date: 11/03/2022 23:37:03
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859353
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1502199923055419396
Ukrainian commander in Mykolaiv tells us Russians are abandoning many vehicles near the city. “They have no will to fight. They don’t even have food. It’s -10 with snow here, they don’t want to be here.”
Date: 11/03/2022 23:50:31
From: dv
ID: 1859356
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1502199923055419396
Ukrainian commander in Mykolaiv tells us Russians are abandoning many vehicles near the city. “They have no will to fight. They don’t even have food. It’s -10 with snow here, they don’t want to be here.”
Thank heavens it is early Spring there
Date: 11/03/2022 23:56:49
From: sibeen
ID: 1859358
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I didn’t realise, until now, that nickel trading had been suspended since Tuesday GMT.
Date: 12/03/2022 00:00:20
From: dv
ID: 1859359
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Good old zinc is still trading
Date: 12/03/2022 00:01:54
From: sibeen
ID: 1859360
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
There will always be zinc.
Date: 12/03/2022 00:06:58
From: dv
ID: 1859362
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
March 11 (Reuters) – Russian troops have launched a high-precision, long-range attack on two military airfields in the Ukrainian cities of Lutsk and Ivano-Frankivsk and taken them out of action, Russian news agencies quoted Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov as saying on Friday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-military-airfields-lutsk-ivano-frankivsk-taken-out-agencies-2022-03-11/
Unfortunate if true, as these are in the West of the country, not all that far from Lviv.
Date: 12/03/2022 00:08:18
From: party_pants
ID: 1859363
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
There will always be zinc.
We know a song about that, don’t we Jimmy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Date: 12/03/2022 00:08:55
From: sibeen
ID: 1859365
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
There will always be zinc.
We know a song about that, don’t we Jimmy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
You utter bastard.
Date: 12/03/2022 00:14:48
From: party_pants
ID: 1859366
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
There will always be zinc.
We know a song about that, don’t we Jimmy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
You utter bastard.
I do my worst :)
Date: 12/03/2022 00:52:56
From: dv
ID: 1859368
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Wookie, maybe you can give us a headsup on your progress each day, just give us a number from 1 to 5
Date: 12/03/2022 01:16:37
From: dv
ID: 1859369
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/10/madison-cawthorn-zelenskyy-thug/6992103001/
Rep. Madison Cawthorn, (Republican-North Carolina), was caught on video this week calling Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “thug” and the Ukrainian government “evil.”
“Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug,” Cawthorn said in the video. “Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies.”
Date: 12/03/2022 01:25:44
From: party_pants
ID: 1859370
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/10/madison-cawthorn-zelenskyy-thug/6992103001/
Rep. Madison Cawthorn, (Republican-North Carolina), was caught on video this week calling Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “thug” and the Ukrainian government “evil.”
“Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug,” Cawthorn said in the video. “Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies.”
Yeah. But sadly even the USA has a law against machine-gunning people in public.
Date: 12/03/2022 01:29:07
From: dv
ID: 1859371
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
dv said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/10/madison-cawthorn-zelenskyy-thug/6992103001/
Rep. Madison Cawthorn, (Republican-North Carolina), was caught on video this week calling Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “thug” and the Ukrainian government “evil.”
“Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug,” Cawthorn said in the video. “Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies.”
Yeah. But sadly even the USA has a law against machine-gunning people in public.
Just tell them you were standing your ground
Date: 12/03/2022 01:38:15
From: dv
ID: 1859372
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
EU leaders seek ways to give support amid high energy prices
EU leaders are discussing ways to support the continent’s economies as they face skyrocketing energy prices amid the crisis aggravated by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
VERSAILLES, France — European Union leaders on Friday tried to find ways to support the continent’s economies as they face skyrocketing energy prices amid a crisis aggravated by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Talks at a summit at the Versailles palace outside Paris aim to find a strategy to make Europe “stronger, more sovereign, more independent,” European Council President Charles Michel said.
Amid key issues, leaders of the 27-nation bloc were to address energy prices and how to support people’s purchasing power and companies’ competitiveness, Michel said.
Europe was already facing a tricky test before Russia’s invasion because of an outlook for slowing economic growth accompanied by surging inflation, which is being driven by high energy prices.
The European Commission, the EU’s executive arm, predicted last month that the bloc’s economic growth would slow from 5.3% last year to 4% this year and 2.8% in 2023.
Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and intensifying sanctions against Moscow, European officials have signaled those numbers are now too optimistic and will be lowered in the next set of economic forecasts scheduled for May.
French President Emmanuel Macron, who holds the rotating presidency of the EU Council, pushed Thursday for “joint European investments” modeled after the 750 billion-euro ($827 billion) recovery plan launched in summer 2020 to help European economies through the COVID-19 pandemic.
Macron acknowledged that some money from the COVID-19 recovery plan has not been used and that talks will address whether “new decisions” are to be made.
Divergences on how the EU should tackle the energy price surge have appeared ahead of the meeting.
Greece proposed a six-point plan that includes a price-cap mechanism to address spiking energy costs, but that idea has been dismissed as unrealistic by other members.
Spain and France — the latter of which derives about 70% of its electricity from nuclear energy — are calling for splitting apart electricity and natural gas prices. The French argue that the influence of natural gas costs in setting wholesale electricity prices is disproportionate.
The European Commission said this week that it will discuss with member states the possibility of granting temporary aid to companies affected by the energy price crisis. It also said it is considering “options for emergency measures” such as temporary price limits.
On Thursday, EU heads of state and government focused on how to wean the bloc off its dependency on Russian energy. Although the latest European sanctions against Russia — including a ban on transactions with the Russian central bank — are unprecedented, the bloc has been careful to avoid disrupting the flow of energy.
The commission unveiled proposals ahead of the summit to reduce EU demand for Russian gas by two-thirds before the end of the year and phase out its reliance on Russian energy by 2027. Proposals include diversifying natural gas supplies and speeding up renewable energy development.
The EU imports 90% of the natural gas used to generate electricity, heat homes and supply industry, with Russia supplying almost 40% of EU gas and a quarter of its oil.
But as Russia intensifies its attacks on Ukraine, calls are growing for the EU to join the U.S. in immediately banning Russian energy.
“It’s a very difficult situation that, on the one hand, we have these financial sanctions that are very hard but on the other hand, we are supporting and actually financing Russia’s war purchasing oil and gas and other fossil fuels from Russia,” Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin told reporters Friday. “We have to get rid of the fossil fuels coming from Russia as soon as possible.”
Some EU countries are much more dependent on Russian energy than others, creating a lack of consensus in the bloc necessary for any European fossil-fuel embargo against Russia.
Date: 12/03/2022 03:17:52
From: dv
ID: 1859376
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/VGNBwBS8knk
US will suspend normal trade relations with Russia (PNTR)
Date: 12/03/2022 05:25:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859377
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reckon every country that hasn’t moved away from gas and oil are wishing they had right now.
Date: 12/03/2022 05:26:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859378
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1502199923055419396
Ukrainian commander in Mykolaiv tells us Russians are abandoning many vehicles near the city. “They have no will to fight. They don’t even have food. It’s -10 with snow here, they don’t want to be here.”
Makes more sense than to throw their lives away for an arsehole who doesn’t give a shit about them.
Date: 12/03/2022 06:46:45
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859392
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/rich-kids-of-russia-speak-out-against-putin/100898516
Date: 12/03/2022 07:02:30
From: dv
ID: 1859393
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/rich-kids-of-russia-speak-out-against-putin/100898516
bit late…
Date: 12/03/2022 07:06:50
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859395
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/rich-kids-of-russia-speak-out-against-putin/100898516
bit late…
True as it stands.
Date: 12/03/2022 07:15:28
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859397
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
roughbarked said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/rich-kids-of-russia-speak-out-against-putin/100898516
bit late…
True as it stands.
early relative to their names appearing on the next draft
Date: 12/03/2022 07:18:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859398
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Reckon every country that hasn’t moved away from gas and oil are wishing they had right now.
right but we should blame Labor for the war, not Corruption for subsidising non-zero-emissions vehicles
Date: 12/03/2022 07:20:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859399
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
Reckon every country that hasn’t moved away from gas and oil are wishing they had right now.
right but we should blame Labor for the war, not Corruption for subsidising non-zero-emissions vehicles
Please show workings. ;)
Date: 12/03/2022 09:03:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859407
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Owww….

Date: 12/03/2022 09:26:49
From: Michael V
ID: 1859408
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Owww….

:)
Date: 12/03/2022 09:46:58
From: dv
ID: 1859412
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/11/business/russia-potanin-putin-warning/index.html
Russia’s richest man warns Putin not to seize private assets.
He seems pretty confident that all this will blow over…
Date: 12/03/2022 10:40:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859430
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This being the face of a rich Russian’s daughter whom hasn’t spoken out against the war.

Date: 12/03/2022 11:12:15
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1859445
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/10/madison-cawthorn-zelenskyy-thug/6992103001/
Rep. Madison Cawthorn, (Republican-North Carolina), was caught on video this week calling Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “thug” and the Ukrainian government “evil.”
“Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug,” Cawthorn said in the video. “Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies.”
Yeah. But sadly even the USA has a law against machine-gunning people in public.
Just tell them you were standing your ground
I thought wokeness was just politically correct. Has it now become fully evil?
And is it possible to be woke and fascist at the same time?
Date: 12/03/2022 11:28:13
From: Tamb
ID: 1859447
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
dv said:
party_pants said:
Yeah. But sadly even the USA has a law against machine-gunning people in public.
Just tell them you were standing your ground
I thought wokeness was just politically correct. Has it now become fully evil?
And is it possible to be woke and fascist at the same time?
Grammatically it should be awakened.
Date: 12/03/2022 11:35:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859452
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
dv said:
party_pants said:
Yeah. But sadly even the USA has a law against machine-gunning people in public.
Just tell them you were standing your ground
I thought wokeness was just politically correct. Has it now become fully evil?
And is it possible to be woke and fascist at the same time?
Awake is not how he wants his slaves people.
Date: 12/03/2022 12:17:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1859482
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/images-show-russian-military-units-continuing-to-deploy/100905178
Date: 12/03/2022 12:22:48
From: Tamb
ID: 1859485
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/images-show-russian-military-units-continuing-to-deploy/100905178
The American action movie makers will be pleased. They were running out of Evil Empire villains.
Date: 12/03/2022 12:25:22
From: dv
ID: 1859488
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
According to the Pentagon, approximately 20% of the Russian forces deployed to Ukraine are now inoperable, due to destruction by Ukrainian forces, lack of fuel, or simply abandonment by troops.
Date: 12/03/2022 13:07:04
From: Michael V
ID: 1859521
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/us-accuses-russia-of-using-un-council-for-disinformation-/100905012
Date: 12/03/2022 13:13:05
From: Michael V
ID: 1859524
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/us-accuse-russia-of-violating-nuclear-safety-principles-ukraine/100905326
Date: 12/03/2022 13:14:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859525
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/us-accuse-russia-of-violating-nuclear-safety-principles-ukraine/100905326
Russia violate nuclear safety principles?
As if they’ve ever done THAT before!
Date: 12/03/2022 13:16:24
From: Michael V
ID: 1859527
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/us-accuse-russia-of-violating-nuclear-safety-principles-ukraine/100905326
Russia violate nuclear safety principles?
As if they’ve ever done THAT before!
No, no, never. Never no more…
Date: 12/03/2022 13:52:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859544
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 12/03/2022 14:53:47
From: Michael V
ID: 1859560
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

:)
Date: 12/03/2022 16:25:01
From: Michael V
ID: 1859602
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-12/drone-likely-flying-from-ukraine-war-zone-crashes-in-croatia/100904952
Date: 12/03/2022 16:38:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859612
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Uh-oh…
https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1502304426937266180
“Reports are coming in of Belorussian artillery shelling their own territory on the border with Ukraine. Possibly to create a pretext for Belorus to join the invasion of Ukraine.”
Date: 12/03/2022 16:42:08
From: party_pants
ID: 1859614
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Uh-oh…
https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1502304426937266180
“Reports are coming in of Belorussian artillery shelling their own territory on the border with Ukraine. Possibly to create a pretext for Belorus to join the invasion of Ukraine.”
They need to think it through very carefully. Belorus could be wiped off the map much quicker than Russia.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:32:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859658
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/italy-seizes-russian-oligarch-melnichenkos-sailing-yacht-a
Date: 12/03/2022 19:33:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859660
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Uh-oh…
https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1502304426937266180
“Reports are coming in of Belorussian artillery shelling their own territory on the border with Ukraine. Possibly to create a pretext for Belorus to join the invasion of Ukraine.”
Google ‘Gleiwitz incident’.
Fascists like to use tried and tested ploys.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:34:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859662
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Imagine being a Russian oligarch stuck out at sea and risking yacht seizure.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:35:47
From: party_pants
ID: 1859663
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Imagine being a Russian oligarch stuck out at sea and risking yacht seizure.
no
Date: 12/03/2022 19:37:07
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859664
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian oligarch yachts now being used to house homeless in decent beds.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:37:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859665
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Imagine being a Russian oligarch stuck out at sea and risking yacht seizure.
Oh, the hardship.
Stuck on my yacht the size of WW2 cruiser, with its ballroom, laser disco, two swimming pools, Cordon Bleu chefs, helipad, harem of Italian call girls, cinema, gyro-stablised snooker room etc. etc.
Oh, woe is me.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:45:23
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859668
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian oligarch yachts now being used to house homeless in decent beds.
Four pillar gold bed with built in high end audio and visual system, built in programmable dimmer lights, luxury super smooth bed sheets and 4 draws on each side each containing white powdered substance.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:48:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859669
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian oligarch yachts now being used to house homeless in decent beds.
Four pillar gold bed with built in high end audio and visual system, built in programmable dimmer lights, luxury super smooth bed sheets and 4 draws on each side each containing white powdered substance.
Writing that down.
The shipyard i employ will be working overtime on all this.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:49:20
From: party_pants
ID: 1859670
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
….each containing white powdered substance.
probably skim milk powder.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:49:54
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859671
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/italy-seizes-russian-oligarch-melnichenkos-sailing-yacht-a
I had a mate a few years ago who was a high-end chippy who regularly did fancy work on the mega yachts that came into town, and he says all these large yachts have an “Artifact deck” that is permanently guarded when in port where the yacht owner keeps all their expensive artifacts and artwork and “stuff” as it is safer and cheaper to store it on the high seas than in a vault somewhere.
I wonder what goodies will be found on board the most expensive yacht in the world?
Date: 12/03/2022 19:50:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859672
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian oligarch yachts now being used to house homeless in decent beds.
Four pillar gold bed with built in high end audio and visual system, built in programmable dimmer lights, luxury super smooth bed sheets and 4 draws on each side each containing white powdered substance.
There’s also a full programmable heated or cooled mattress with a dedicated Youporn HD 4K webcam for nudie moments with other nudie online friends.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:50:45
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1859674
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/italy-seizes-russian-oligarch-melnichenkos-sailing-yacht-a
Only a trifling Aus$800,000,000 or so.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:51:54
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859675
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian oligarch yachts now being used to house homeless in decent beds.
Four pillar gold bed with built in high end audio and visual system, built in programmable dimmer lights, luxury super smooth bed sheets and 4 draws on each side each containing white powdered substance.
There’s also a full programmable heated or cooled mattress with a dedicated Youporn HD 4K webcam for nudie moments with other nudie online friends.
Slow down, i can only write so fast.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:52:32
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1859677
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kyiv ‘ready to fight’ as Russian forces close in Ukraine capital
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/kyiv-ready-to-fight-as-russian-forces-close-in-ukraine-capital
Date: 12/03/2022 19:53:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859678
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian oligarch yachts now being used to house homeless in decent beds.
Four pillar gold bed with built in high end audio and visual system, built in programmable dimmer lights, luxury super smooth bed sheets and 4 draws on each side each containing white powdered substance.
There’s also a full programmable heated or cooled mattress with a dedicated Youporn HD 4K webcam for nudie moments with other nudie online friends.
Gold bidet toilet with heated toilet seat with built in extractor fan and perfumed warm water spray and perfumed heated wind blower.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:55:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859680
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Four pillar gold bed with built in high end audio and visual system, built in programmable dimmer lights, luxury super smooth bed sheets and 4 draws on each side each containing white powdered substance.
There’s also a full programmable heated or cooled mattress with a dedicated Youporn HD 4K webcam for nudie moments with other nudie online friends.
Gold bidet toilet with heated toilet seat with built in extractor fan and perfumed warm water spray and perfumed heated wind blower.
Gold Toilet also has pop out draw for white powered substance.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:56:28
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859681
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Apparently two FSB generals are under house-arrest. My google search is inexplicably timing out but there must be something out there on the web about this.
Date: 12/03/2022 19:58:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859682
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
There’s also a full programmable heated or cooled mattress with a dedicated Youporn HD 4K webcam for nudie moments with other nudie online friends.
Gold bidet toilet with heated toilet seat with built in extractor fan and perfumed warm water spray and perfumed heated wind blower.
Gold Toilet also has pop out draw for white powered substance.
Remote controlled pillows also angle up for reading or watching.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:04:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859684
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
There’s also a full programmable heated or cooled mattress with a dedicated Youporn HD 4K webcam for nudie moments with other nudie online friends.
Gold bidet toilet with heated toilet seat with built in extractor fan and perfumed warm water spray and perfumed heated wind blower.
Gold Toilet also has pop out draw for white powered substance.
Pillows also have secret soft drawer for…white powered substance.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:09:42
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859688
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Apparently two FSB generals are under house-arrest. My google search is inexplicably timing out but there must be something out there on the web about this.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/11/russian-general-killed-and-clutch-of-spy-chiefs-arrested/
Date: 12/03/2022 20:10:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859689
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Gold bidet toilet with heated toilet seat with built in extractor fan and perfumed warm water spray and perfumed heated wind blower.
Gold Toilet also has pop out draw for white powered substance.
Pillows also have secret soft drawer for…white powered substance.
Ceiling above bed has a large flat-screen monitor with built in camera which when turned off becomes a mirror.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:19:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1859690
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Apparently two FSB generals are under house-arrest. My google search is inexplicably timing out but there must be something out there on the web about this.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/11/russian-general-killed-and-clutch-of-spy-chiefs-arrested/
Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious at security services for failing to warn him’ that Ukraine could fiercely resist invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html
Date: 12/03/2022 20:23:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1859691
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Apparently two FSB generals are under house-arrest. My google search is inexplicably timing out but there must be something out there on the web about this.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/11/russian-general-killed-and-clutch-of-spy-chiefs-arrested/
Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious at security services for failing to warn him’ that Ukraine could fiercely resist invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html
From that article:
>In fact, the Russian armed forces have faced fierce resistance from Ukrainian soldiers that has battled them to a standstill, inflicted heavy losses, and forced Putin’s commanders to resort to brutal siege warfare that has so far yielded few results.<
Um no, the resistance hasn’t “forced them” to resort to brutal siege warfare, they chose to do it because they are war criminals.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:24:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859692
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Gold Toilet also has pop out draw for white powered substance.
Pillows also have secret soft drawer for…white powered substance.
Ceiling above bed has a large flat-screen monitor with built in camera which when turned off becomes a mirror.
The bed itself has a built-in Alpine double din High Res 24/96 multimedia audio system with radio DVD CD USB SD Bluetooth etc with 2 pre-outs which go to 6 pioneer high res amplfiers – 2 for the 6 inch speakers 2 for 2 the 6×9 speakers and another 2 for the 2 12 inch alpine subs the DVD goes to a 1.2 meter Sony hi res 8K UHD screen at the end of the bed.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:25:54
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859693
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Pillows also have secret soft drawer for…white powered substance.
Ceiling above bed has a large flat-screen monitor with built in camera which when turned off becomes a mirror.
The bed itself has a built-in Alpine double din High Res 24/96 multimedia audio system with radio DVD CD USB SD Bluetooth etc with 2 pre-outs which go to 6 pioneer high res amplfiers – 2 for the 6 inch speakers 2 for 2 the 6×9 speakers and another 2 for the 2 12 inch alpine subs the DVD goes to a 1.2 meter Sony hi res 8K UHD screen at the end of the bed.
Sounds amazing on cannabis and cocaine.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:33:59
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859695
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Ceiling above bed has a large flat-screen monitor with built in camera which when turned off becomes a mirror.
The bed itself has a built-in Alpine double din High Res 24/96 multimedia audio system with radio DVD CD USB SD Bluetooth etc with 2 pre-outs which go to 6 pioneer high res amplfiers – 2 for the 6 inch speakers 2 for 2 the 6×9 speakers and another 2 for the 2 12 inch alpine subs the DVD goes to a 1.2 meter Sony hi res 8K UHD screen at the end of the bed.
Sounds amazing on cannabis and cocaine.
Also has a heated marble floors
:)
Date: 12/03/2022 20:35:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859697
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed itself has a built-in Alpine double din High Res 24/96 multimedia audio system with radio DVD CD USB SD Bluetooth etc with 2 pre-outs which go to 6 pioneer high res amplfiers – 2 for the 6 inch speakers 2 for 2 the 6×9 speakers and another 2 for the 2 12 inch alpine subs the DVD goes to a 1.2 meter Sony hi res 8K UHD screen at the end of the bed.
Sounds amazing on cannabis and cocaine.
Also has a heated marble floors
:)
This one could have heated polished black granite floors, not sure.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:38:46
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859698
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Sounds amazing on cannabis and cocaine.
Also has a heated marble floors
:)
This one could have heated polished black granite floors, not sure.
You really seem to be on the good shit this evening.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:40:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859699
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Also has a heated marble floors
:)
This one could have heated polished black granite floors, not sure.
You really seem to be on the good shit this evening.
I like designing billion dollar yachts, annoyingly they are not really yachts, but I don’t say anything.
Date: 12/03/2022 20:52:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859702
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
This one could have heated polished black granite floors, not sure.
You really seem to be on the good shit this evening.
I like designing billion dollar yachts, annoyingly they are not really yachts, but I don’t say anything.
Just kidding I like imagining my bedroom and bathroom, my real bedroom and bathroom looks very different.
:)
Date: 12/03/2022 21:17:51
From: furious
ID: 1859706
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
- Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious
I’ve never ever met putin…
Date: 12/03/2022 21:28:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859708
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
- Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious
I’ve never ever met putin…
But are you the head of the FSB?
Date: 12/03/2022 21:32:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859709
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
furious said:
- Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious
I’ve never ever met putin…
But are you the head of the FSB?

Date: 12/03/2022 21:35:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859711
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
furious said:
- Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious
I’ve never ever met putin…
But are you the head of the FSB?

One of fast food shops sells those, you can add double gravy and cheese I think.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:36:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859712
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:38:32
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859714
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.
Troop carrier with dingi access for sas
Date: 12/03/2022 21:39:04
From: party_pants
ID: 1859715
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Apparently two FSB generals are under house-arrest. My google search is inexplicably timing out but there must be something out there on the web about this.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/11/russian-general-killed-and-clutch-of-spy-chiefs-arrested/
Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious at security services for failing to warn him’ that Ukraine could fiercely resist invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html
That’s what you get for being a fuckwit dictator. A one person government simply can’t make all the right decisions on their own. If nobody can discuss or challenge the decision making process out of fear of losing favour with the ruler then you end with a flawed decision making process and flawed decisions being made.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:39:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859716
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.

Date: 12/03/2022 21:40:47
From: party_pants
ID: 1859717
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.
Only after the war is over. In the meantime it could be used as accommodation for Ukranian refugees.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:41:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859718
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

You’ll notice that they only built one of those. Some mistakes you don’t make more than once.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:41:35
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859719
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.

What’s that called?
Date: 12/03/2022 21:41:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859720
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Only after the war is over. In the meantime it could be used as accommodation for Ukranian refugees.
Pay that.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:42:44
From: party_pants
ID: 1859721
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.

What’s that called?
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:43:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859722
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:

What’s that called?
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
Does it have a wikipedia entry?
Date: 12/03/2022 21:43:57
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859723
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Troop carrier with dingi access for sas
I do despair for ship design.
Even ocean liners/cruise ships. Once upon a time, ship owners wanted their ships to make statements about beauty and grace and style.
These days, the brief seems to be ‘design a tall block flats with an amusement park next door, push the whole lot over onto its side, and sharpen one end slightly’.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:44:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859724
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
captain_spalding said:
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.
Troop carrier with dingi access for sas
Chop off the silly eyesore sails,
paint in latest camouflage
to help hide it
Date: 12/03/2022 21:44:39
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859725
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
And sometimes so appalling that you pretend it never happened.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:45:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859726
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
What’s that called?
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
Does it have a wikipedia entry?
Yes, but you can’t see it because it’s a ‘stealth’ ship.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:47:36
From: party_pants
ID: 1859727
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
What’s that called?
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
Does it have a wikipedia entry?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Shadow_(IX-529)
Date: 12/03/2022 21:49:35
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859728
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
What’s that called?
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
Does it have a wikipedia entry?
Stealth ships
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_ship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Shadow_(IX-529) Scrapped in 2012

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Zumwalt Commissioned 15 October 2016

Date: 12/03/2022 21:51:05
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859729
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
Does it have a wikipedia entry?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Shadow_(IX-529)
Ta.
Date: 12/03/2022 21:57:42
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1859732
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
A technology demonstrator. It is possible to build and test a prototype. Sometimes even useful.
Does it have a wikipedia entry?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Shadow_(IX-529)
Looks perfect for the slicing and dicing of whales.
Date: 12/03/2022 22:32:17
From: Kingy
ID: 1859738
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Here’s a pic of the yacht that was confiscated.

As examples of fine naval architecture go, this would make a fabulous missile target on an exercise.
Seriously, i have seen some absolute and utterly shite designs passed off ‘boats’ or ‘yachts’ or what-have-you, and this abomination is up there with the worst of them.
Sinking is too good for it. It should be ground up into metal powder and lobbed into the caldera of an active volcano.
But but it’s a sailing yot. It’s good for the environment. It saves the billionaire some fuel money.
Date: 12/03/2022 22:33:00
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859739
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian oligarch yachts now being used to house homeless in decent beds.
Four pillar gold bed with built in high end audio and visual system, built in programmable dimmer lights, luxury super smooth bed sheets and 4 draws on each side each containing white powdered substance.
Writing that down.
The shipyard i employ will be working overtime on all this.
If your still writing, bathroom for luxury boat.
programmable water temperature for hand basin
programmable water temperature for shower
programmable heated or cooled floor
programmable heated shower floor
heated exhaust with dimmable light for shower ceiling
programmable wall heater, air con
programmable towel heater
Gold bidet toilet with programmable temperature toilet seat, programmable temperature for scented water, programmable scented warm air temperature, built in night light in seat, air exhaust. pop out secret drawer for white powder substance.
Date: 12/03/2022 22:55:55
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859746
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The bed in point form for captain spalding
4 pillar gold bed
high end audio visual system
programmable heated or cooled mattress
alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
4 Side mounted HD web cameras
4 Dimmable LED lights
Variable Pillow Angle
Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
Remote control for all features
Date: 12/03/2022 23:00:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859750
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed in point form for captain spalding
4 pillar gold bed
high end audio visual system
programmable heated or cooled mattress
alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
4 Side mounted HD web cameras
4 Dimmable LED lights
Variable Pillow Angle
Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
Remote control for all features
I felt out the super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
Date: 12/03/2022 23:09:13
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859751
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed in point form for captain spalding
4 pillar gold bed
high end audio visual system
programmable heated or cooled mattress
alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
4 Side mounted HD web cameras
4 Dimmable LED lights
Variable Pillow Angle
Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
Remote control for all features
I felt out the super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
Runs back in
I left out the pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
I think that’s it,
Thinks a bit more.
maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each
yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
:)
Date: 12/03/2022 23:27:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859756
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed in point form for captain spalding
4 pillar gold bed
high end audio visual system
programmable heated or cooled mattress
alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
4 Side mounted HD web cameras
4 Dimmable LED lights
Variable Pillow Angle
Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
Remote control for all features
I felt out the super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
Runs back in
I left out the pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
I think that’s it,
Thinks a bit more.
maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each
yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
:)
runs back again
I left out the bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
and a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
:)
Date: 12/03/2022 23:40:39
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859761
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I felt out the super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
Runs back in
I left out the pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
I think that’s it,
Thinks a bit more.
maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each
yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
:)
runs back again
I left out the bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
and a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
:)
both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
Date: 12/03/2022 23:57:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859764
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Runs back in
I left out the pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
I think that’s it,
Thinks a bit more.
maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each
yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
:)
runs back again
I left out the bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
and a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
:)
both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
The 4 pillar bed has a metal rail ruling around all sides
This is strong enough to fit elastic straps for 2 adults who want to do naughty after hour things.
The bed also has 2 champagne holders, 2 joint holders
I think thats it.
Date: 13/03/2022 00:23:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859775
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The bed in point form for captain spalding
- 4 pillar gold bed
- high end audio visual system
- programmable heated or cooled mattress
- alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
- 6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
- 2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
- 2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
- 2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
- 1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
- 1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
- 4 Side mounted HD web cameras
- 4 Dimmable LED lights
- Variable Pillow Angle
- Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
- Remote control for all features
- Super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- Maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
- The bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
- The bed also has a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
- Bed also has a satellite phone/radio paytv module for built-in smartphone and alpine multi player bluetooth.
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
- front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
- The 4 pillar bed has a metal rail ruling around all sides
- This is strong enough to fit elastic straps for 2 adults who want to do naughty after hour things.
- The bed also has 2 champagne holders, 2 joint holders
I think thats it.
Date: 13/03/2022 00:25:03
From: dv
ID: 1859776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/11/russian-general-killed-and-clutch-of-spy-chiefs-arrested/
Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious at security services for failing to warn him’ that Ukraine could fiercely resist invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html
From that article:
>In fact, the Russian armed forces have faced fierce resistance from Ukrainian soldiers that has battled them to a standstill, inflicted heavy losses, and forced Putin’s commanders to resort to brutal siege warfare that has so far yielded few results.<
Um no, the resistance hasn’t “forced them” to resort to brutal siege warfare, they chose to do it because they are war criminals.
What a daft turn of events. What of dingus would need to be told that there would be military resistance to an invasion?
Date: 13/03/2022 00:27:40
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859778
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed in point form for captain spalding
- 4 pillar gold bed
- high end audio visual system
- programmable heated or cooled mattress
- alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
- 6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
- 2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
- 2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
- 2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
- 1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
- 1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
- 4 Side mounted HD web cameras
- 4 Dimmable LED lights
- Variable Pillow Angle
- Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
- Remote control for all features
- Super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- Maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
- The bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
- The bed also has a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
- Bed also has a satellite phone/radio paytv module for built-in smartphone and alpine multi player bluetooth.
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
- front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
- The 4 pillar bed has a metal rail ruling around all sides
- This is strong enough to fit elastic straps for 2 adults who want to do naughty after hour things.
- The bed also has 2 champagne holders, 2 joint holders
I think thats it.
I left out the bed has 6 different levels of bling.
Date: 13/03/2022 00:31:16
From: furious
ID: 1859779
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed in point form for captain spalding
- 4 pillar gold bed
- high end audio visual system
- programmable heated or cooled mattress
- alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
- 6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
- 2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
- 2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
- 2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
- 1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
- 1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
- 4 Side mounted HD web cameras
- 4 Dimmable LED lights
- Variable Pillow Angle
- Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
- Remote control for all features
- Super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- Maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
- The bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
- The bed also has a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
- Bed also has a satellite phone/radio paytv module for built-in smartphone and alpine multi player bluetooth.
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
- front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
- The 4 pillar bed has a metal rail ruling around all sides
- This is strong enough to fit elastic straps for 2 adults who want to do naughty after hour things.
- The bed also has 2 champagne holders, 2 joint holders
I think thats it.
I left out the bed has 6 different levels of bling.
What the hell are you going on about?
Date: 13/03/2022 00:35:01
From: dv
ID: 1859781
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
DW News interviewed a Belarusian guy now living in Germany, talking about how Belarus had become a sad joke under Lukashenko and just keeps getting worse. “When you get on the train to Dachau you don’t end up in Disneyland.”
Date: 13/03/2022 01:10:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859786
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed in point form for captain spalding
- 4 pillar gold bed
- high end audio visual system
- programmable heated or cooled mattress
- alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
- 6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
- 2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
- 2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
- 2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
- 1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
- 1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
- 4 Side mounted HD web cameras
- 4 Dimmable LED lights
- Variable Pillow Angle
- Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
- Remote control for all features
- Super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- Maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
- The bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
- The bed also has a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
- Bed also has a satellite phone/radio paytv module for built-in smartphone and alpine multi player bluetooth.
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
- front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
- The 4 pillar bed has a metal rail ruling around all sides
- This is strong enough to fit elastic straps for 2 adults who want to do naughty after hour things.
- The bed also has 2 champagne holders, 2 joint holders
I think thats it.
I left out the bed has 6 different levels of bling.
What the hell are you going on about?
I left out bed also has under bed slide out fridge for chilled champagne.
On both sides.
Date: 13/03/2022 01:14:43
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859787
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
furious said:
I left out the bed has 6 different levels of bling.
What the hell are you going on about?
I left out bed also has under bed slide out fridge for chilled champagne.
On both sides.
Mattress also vibrates to remote smartphone vibrator.
I think thats it
Date: 13/03/2022 01:16:05
From: dv
ID: 1859788
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 13/03/2022 01:16:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859789
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious at security services for failing to warn him’ that Ukraine could fiercely resist invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html
From that article:
>In fact, the Russian armed forces have faced fierce resistance from Ukrainian soldiers that has battled them to a standstill, inflicted heavy losses, and forced Putin’s commanders to resort to brutal siege warfare that has so far yielded few results.<
Um no, the resistance hasn’t “forced them” to resort to brutal siege warfare, they chose to do it because they are war criminals.
What a daft turn of events. What of dingus would need to be told that there would be military resistance to an invasion?
they weren’t asked about the response to an invasion, they were expecting flowers and open arms for peacekeeper liberators
Date: 13/03/2022 01:17:32
From: party_pants
ID: 1859790
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
furious said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I left out the bed has 6 different levels of bling.
What the hell are you going on about?
I left out bed also has under bed slide out fridge for chilled champagne.
On both sides.
I can’t recall ever drinking alcohol in bed.
Date: 13/03/2022 01:20:17
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859791
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The bed in point form for captain spalding
- 4 pillar gold bed
- high end audio visual system
- programmable heated or cooled mattress
- alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
- 6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
- 2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
- 2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
- 2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
- 1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
- 1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
- 4 Side mounted HD web cameras
- 4 Dimmable LED lights
- Variable Pillow Angle
- Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
- Remote control for all features
- Super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- Maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
- The bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
- The bed also has a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
- Bed also has a satellite phone/radio paytv module for built-in smartphone and alpine multi player bluetooth.
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
- front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
- The 4 pillar bed has a metal rail ruling around all sides
- This is strong enough to fit elastic straps for 2 adults who want to do naughty after hour things.
- The bed also has 2 champagne holders, 2 joint holders
- bed has 6 different levels of bling.
- bed under bed slide out fridge for chilled champagne on both sides.
- Mattress also vibrates to remote smartphone vibrator.
I think that’s it.
Date: 13/03/2022 01:20:46
From: sibeen
ID: 1859792
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

But has the EU stood up any more than Britain? Or are the Germans deciding that not freezing to death is the way to go at the moment?
Date: 13/03/2022 01:21:19
From: dv
ID: 1859793
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian state TV, struggling to convince citizens to support the invasion of Ukraine, continues to air clips of Fox News’ Tucker Carlson, portraying the television host as having the authority to wield a major influence on America’s opinion of the war.
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russia-using-tucker-carlson-propaganda-pawn-1687402
Date: 13/03/2022 01:23:54
From: dv
ID: 1859794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:

But has the EU stood up any more than Britain? Or are the Germans deciding that not freezing to death is the way to go at the moment?
Glad you asked! Yes.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/questions-raised-over-time-lag-on-uk-moves-to-sanction-oligarchs#_=_
Date: 13/03/2022 01:25:37
From: sibeen
ID: 1859795
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
dv said:

But has the EU stood up any more than Britain? Or are the Germans deciding that not freezing to death is the way to go at the moment?
Glad you asked! Yes.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/questions-raised-over-time-lag-on-uk-moves-to-sanction-oligarchs#_=_
Well, it is yes to both :)
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-07/card/germany-says-it-won-t-stop-buying-russian-energy-despite-moscow-s-war-in-ukraine-1RLThH0sOukkiygAXV9x
Date: 13/03/2022 01:27:52
From: dv
ID: 1859796
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Certainly I don’t think the EU has granted Russian Oligarchs peerages and lifetime positions in parliament..m
Date: 13/03/2022 01:29:05
From: party_pants
ID: 1859797
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:

But has the EU stood up any more than Britain? Or are the Germans deciding that not freezing to death is the way to go at the moment?
The pro-Brexit press still live in a parallel universe. The UK are lagging far behind what the US and the EU are doing, they just make a lot of noise about what they a going to do but then do nothing. Their sanctions against Russian banks don’t start till the end of the month, so the oligarchs have enough time to sell assets and transfer funds to offshore havens. These havens are nominally British of course, but in a long standing tradition of hypocrisy they pretend they have no influence over them.
Brexit is one third part a Russian plot anyway. The current Tory government are all Russian agents. They can’t be trusted until there is a change on government.
Date: 13/03/2022 01:30:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859798
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
furious said:
What the hell are you going on about?
I left out bed also has under bed slide out fridge for chilled champagne.
On both sides.
I can’t recall ever drinking alcohol in bed.
Cough this is a Russian billionaire oligarchs bed cough billionaire cough nude women cough
Date: 13/03/2022 01:35:36
From: sibeen
ID: 1859799
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Certainly I don’t think the EU has granted Russian Oligarchs peerages and lifetime positions in parliament..m
Sure, but that all happened before there was a war. It really would take Cassandra like abilities to realise this was going to happen when those were awarded. The Germans, meanwhile, are still happily buying shitloads of British Thermal Units off Russia, even as the cunts are blowing up whomever they want to. I do think there is a bit of a difference.
Date: 13/03/2022 01:42:31
From: sibeen
ID: 1859800
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
dv said:

But has the EU stood up any more than Britain? Or are the Germans deciding that not freezing to death is the way to go at the moment?
The pro-Brexit press still live in a parallel universe. The UK are lagging far behind what the US and the EU are doing, they just make a lot of noise about what they a going to do but then do nothing. Their sanctions against Russian banks don’t start till the end of the month, so the oligarchs have enough time to sell assets and transfer funds to offshore havens. These havens are nominally British of course, but in a long standing tradition of hypocrisy they pretend they have no influence over them.
Brexit is one third part a Russian plot anyway. The current Tory government are all Russian agents. They can’t be trusted until there is a change on government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60476137
The UK started freezing assets weeks ago.
Date: 13/03/2022 01:50:54
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1859802
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
The bed in point form for captain spalding
- 4 pillar gold bed
- high end audio visual system
- programmable heated or cooled mattress
- alpine high-res 24/96 multi-media player, am.fm, dab, cd dvd, sd, usb, bluetooth
- 6 high resolution pioneer amplifiers 100 watts each
- 2 Alpine 6 inch high end speakers Rear
- 2 Alpine 6×9 high end speakers Front
- 2 Alpine high end 12 inch subwoofers under bed.
- 1 1.2 meter Sony 8K UHD monitor
- 1 Sony mirror HD screen with hidden HD webcam
- 4 Side mounted HD web cameras
- 4 Dimmable LED lights
- Variable Pillow Angle
- Secret pillow compartment for white powered substance
- Remote control for all features
- Super smooth bedsheets a bit like bamboo bed sheets but even smoother, smoother than silk, but without any slipping, awesome They are bacteria proof as well
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- Maybe pussy scented candles at 100 dollars each yep, look around for cheaper ones, there are some.
- The bed also has a built in 5G smart phone with Google Nest hub, Google Alexa and Google Home for controlling other functions.
- The bed also has a built-in Bluetooth phone speaker by Jabra the Jabra Speak 410 UC USB Conference Speaker phone.
- Bed also has a satellite phone/radio paytv module for built-in smartphone and alpine multi player bluetooth.
- Pillows also have built-in ultra-soft HD blue-tooth audio speakers.
- both preouts on the Alpine mediaplayer have double piggyback rcas
- front preouts go to front amplifier and a Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- rear preouts go to rear amplifier and a separate Sennheiser BT-T100 Bluetooth transmitter
- two Sennheiser Bluetooth High Resolution headphones
- The 4 pillar bed has a metal rail ruling around all sides
- This is strong enough to fit elastic straps for 2 adults who want to do naughty after hour things.
- The bed also has 2 champagne holders, 2 joint holders
- bed has 6 different levels of bling.
- bed under bed slide out fridge for chilled champagne on both sides.
- Mattress also vibrates to remote smartphone vibrator.
I think that’s it.
I felt out choices of either velvet or washable leather heavenly padded bedhead.
Date: 13/03/2022 01:52:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859803
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Certainly I don’t think the EU has granted Russian Oligarchs peerages and lifetime positions in parliament..m
Sure, but that all happened before there was a war. It really would take Cassandra like abilities to realise this was going to happen when those were awarded.
shrug remember how CHINESE billionaires splashed a bit of cold hard liquidity around and suddenly they were all ACs and AOs and AMs and so on
Date: 13/03/2022 01:54:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859804
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russian state TV, struggling to convince citizens to support the invasion of Ukraine, continues to air clips of Fox News’ Tucker Carlson, portraying the television host as having the authority to wield a major influence on America’s opinion of the war.
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russia-using-tucker-carlson-propaganda-pawn-1687402
so unlike their expectation that Ukrainians would shower their occupation in love, they actually got something right for once there
Date: 13/03/2022 01:55:48
From: party_pants
ID: 1859805
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
But has the EU stood up any more than Britain? Or are the Germans deciding that not freezing to death is the way to go at the moment?
The pro-Brexit press still live in a parallel universe. The UK are lagging far behind what the US and the EU are doing, they just make a lot of noise about what they a going to do but then do nothing. Their sanctions against Russian banks don’t start till the end of the month, so the oligarchs have enough time to sell assets and transfer funds to offshore havens. These havens are nominally British of course, but in a long standing tradition of hypocrisy they pretend they have no influence over them.
Brexit is one third part a Russian plot anyway. The current Tory government are all Russian agents. They can’t be trusted until there is a change on government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60476137
The UK started freezing assets weeks ago.
I read this news last week. Things may have changed over the last couple of days. They have gone after Abramovic over the weekend, But in the link you posted it does say that it could take a couple weeks to come into effect, it was not immediate
Date: 13/03/2022 02:00:01
From: furious
ID: 1859806
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
The pro-Brexit press still live in a parallel universe. The UK are lagging far behind what the US and the EU are doing, they just make a lot of noise about what they a going to do but then do nothing. Their sanctions against Russian banks don’t start till the end of the month, so the oligarchs have enough time to sell assets and transfer funds to offshore havens. These havens are nominally British of course, but in a long standing tradition of hypocrisy they pretend they have no influence over them.
Brexit is one third part a Russian plot anyway. The current Tory government are all Russian agents. They can’t be trusted until there is a change on government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60476137
The UK started freezing assets weeks ago.
I read this news last week. Things may have changed over the last couple of days. They have gone after Abramovic over the weekend, But in the link you posted it does say that it could take a couple weeks to come into effect, it was not immediate
It also says A limited number of small banks and Putin allies will face sanctions…
Date: 13/03/2022 02:03:28
From: sibeen
ID: 1859807
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
The pro-Brexit press still live in a parallel universe. The UK are lagging far behind what the US and the EU are doing, they just make a lot of noise about what they a going to do but then do nothing. Their sanctions against Russian banks don’t start till the end of the month, so the oligarchs have enough time to sell assets and transfer funds to offshore havens. These havens are nominally British of course, but in a long standing tradition of hypocrisy they pretend they have no influence over them.
Brexit is one third part a Russian plot anyway. The current Tory government are all Russian agents. They can’t be trusted until there is a change on government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60476137
The UK started freezing assets weeks ago.
I read this news last week. Things may have changed over the last couple of days. They have gone after Abramovic over the weekend, But in the link you posted it does say that it could take a couple weeks to come into effect, it was not immediate
I deliberately chose a BBC link. As to Abramovic cough – you cannot buy a ticket to a Chelsea soccer game. They’ve basically taken the club away from him. They’re pretty fucking poor Russian agents.
Date: 13/03/2022 02:16:30
From: party_pants
ID: 1859808
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60476137
The UK started freezing assets weeks ago.
I read this news last week. Things may have changed over the last couple of days. They have gone after Abramovic over the weekend, But in the link you posted it does say that it could take a couple weeks to come into effect, it was not immediate
I deliberately chose a BBC link. As to Abramovic cough – you cannot buy a ticket to a Chelsea soccer game. They’ve basically taken the club away from him. They’re pretty fucking poor Russian agents.
Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 Feb.
On 1 March Chelsea FC was put up for sale
On March 10 the UK government decided to freeze it.
—-
The Tories only react to things once there is a public outcry. Abramovic is probably the highest profile Russian kleptogarch in the UK, so something had to be seen to be done about him, given that he had more than a week earlier put the club up for sale. The Tories can’t get away with everything, sometimes they are forced into reactionary measures when they see they can’t get away with it, even from their own complaint press. It is a consistent pattern from the Johnson government.
Date: 13/03/2022 02:22:30
From: party_pants
ID: 1859809
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
I read this news last week. Things may have changed over the last couple of days. They have gone after Abramovic over the weekend, But in the link you posted it does say that it could take a couple weeks to come into effect, it was not immediate
I deliberately chose a BBC link. As to Abramovic cough – you cannot buy a ticket to a Chelsea soccer game. They’ve basically taken the club away from him. They’re pretty fucking poor Russian agents.
Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 Feb.
On 1 March Chelsea FC was put up for sale
On March 10 the UK government decided to freeze it.
—-
The Tories only react to things once there is a public outcry. Abramovic is probably the highest profile Russian kleptogarch in the UK, so something had to be seen to be done about him, given that he had more than a week earlier put the club up for sale. The Tories can’t get away with everything, sometimes they are forced into reactionary measures when they see they can’t get away with it, even from their own complaint press. It is a consistent pattern from the Johnson government.
where: complaint = compliant
Date: 13/03/2022 02:32:16
From: sibeen
ID: 1859810
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
I read this news last week. Things may have changed over the last couple of days. They have gone after Abramovic over the weekend, But in the link you posted it does say that it could take a couple weeks to come into effect, it was not immediate
I deliberately chose a BBC link. As to Abramovic cough – you cannot buy a ticket to a Chelsea soccer game. They’ve basically taken the club away from him. They’re pretty fucking poor Russian agents.
Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 Feb.
On 1 March Chelsea FC was put up for sale
On March 10 the UK government decided to freeze it.
—-
The Tories only react to things once there is a public outcry. Abramovic is probably the highest profile Russian kleptogarch in the UK, so something had to be seen to be done about him, given that he had more than a week earlier put the club up for sale. The Tories can’t get away with everything, sometimes they are forced into reactionary measures when they see they can’t get away with it, even from their own complaint press. It is a consistent pattern from the Johnson government.
Sure, but my niggardly post was in response to the meme posted by dv which suggested that the UK had done nothing whilst the EU has been steadfast in opposing the Russians. That’s obvious bullshit when the Germans are not freezing – which means that they’re buying shitloads of gas and coal from the Russians. I was pointing out that the meme was crap – as the majority are.
Date: 13/03/2022 02:35:31
From: party_pants
ID: 1859811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
I deliberately chose a BBC link. As to Abramovic cough – you cannot buy a ticket to a Chelsea soccer game. They’ve basically taken the club away from him. They’re pretty fucking poor Russian agents.
Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 Feb.
On 1 March Chelsea FC was put up for sale
On March 10 the UK government decided to freeze it.
—-
The Tories only react to things once there is a public outcry. Abramovic is probably the highest profile Russian kleptogarch in the UK, so something had to be seen to be done about him, given that he had more than a week earlier put the club up for sale. The Tories can’t get away with everything, sometimes they are forced into reactionary measures when they see they can’t get away with it, even from their own complaint press. It is a consistent pattern from the Johnson government.
Sure, but my niggardly post was in response to the meme posted by dv which suggested that the UK had done nothing whilst the EU has been steadfast in opposing the Russians. That’s obvious bullshit when the Germans are not freezing – which means that they’re buying shitloads of gas and coal from the Russians. I was pointing out that the meme was crap – as the majority are.
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
Date: 13/03/2022 02:45:29
From: sibeen
ID: 1859813
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 Feb.
On 1 March Chelsea FC was put up for sale
On March 10 the UK government decided to freeze it.
—-
The Tories only react to things once there is a public outcry. Abramovic is probably the highest profile Russian kleptogarch in the UK, so something had to be seen to be done about him, given that he had more than a week earlier put the club up for sale. The Tories can’t get away with everything, sometimes they are forced into reactionary measures when they see they can’t get away with it, even from their own complaint press. It is a consistent pattern from the Johnson government.
Sure, but my niggardly post was in response to the meme posted by dv which suggested that the UK had done nothing whilst the EU has been steadfast in opposing the Russians. That’s obvious bullshit when the Germans are not freezing – which means that they’re buying shitloads of gas and coal from the Russians. I was pointing out that the meme was crap – as the majority are.
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Date: 13/03/2022 02:52:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1859814
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
Sure, but my niggardly post was in response to the meme posted by dv which suggested that the UK had done nothing whilst the EU has been steadfast in opposing the Russians. That’s obvious bullshit when the Germans are not freezing – which means that they’re buying shitloads of gas and coal from the Russians. I was pointing out that the meme was crap – as the majority are.
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Yeah, even Donald Trump grasped that and was trying to tell Germany not to agree to Nordstream 2.
Germany have to choose between meeting their carbon reduction targets, or reactivating coal. And speaking of reactivating.. nuclear. I think Germany are going to have to go nuclear. But the Greens are part of the current coalition. What to do? Let France expand their nuclear sector and just build more transmission capacity.
Date: 13/03/2022 03:03:54
From: sibeen
ID: 1859815
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Yeah, even Donald Trump grasped that and was trying to tell Germany not to agree to Nordstream 2.
Germany have to choose between meeting their carbon reduction targets, or reactivating coal. And speaking of reactivating.. nuclear. I think Germany are going to have to go nuclear. But the Greens are part of the current coalition. What to do? Let France expand their nuclear sector and just build more transmission capacity.
For the Greens it is where the rubber hits the road. They’ve never been prepared for that.
Date: 13/03/2022 03:10:51
From: dv
ID: 1859817
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Yeah, even Donald Trump grasped that and was trying to tell Germany not to agree to Nordstream 2.
Germany have to choose between meeting their carbon reduction targets, or reactivating coal. And speaking of reactivating.. nuclear. I think Germany are going to have to go nuclear. But the Greens are part of the current coalition. What to do? Let France expand their nuclear sector and just build more transmission capacity.
For the Greens it is where the rubber hits the road. They’ve never been prepared for that.
I don’t think there is much chance they’ll restart any plants but there are three more to be decommisioned late this year. I would think it would be prudent to at least delay that by a few years.
Date: 13/03/2022 03:13:41
From: sibeen
ID: 1859818
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
Yeah, even Donald Trump grasped that and was trying to tell Germany not to agree to Nordstream 2.
Germany have to choose between meeting their carbon reduction targets, or reactivating coal. And speaking of reactivating.. nuclear. I think Germany are going to have to go nuclear. But the Greens are part of the current coalition. What to do? Let France expand their nuclear sector and just build more transmission capacity.
For the Greens it is where the rubber hits the road. They’ve never been prepared for that.
I don’t think there is much chance they’ll restart any plants but there are three more to be decommisioned late this year. I would think it would be prudent to at least delay that by a few years.
Well it’s that or have lots of pensioners freeze to death.
It may be a toss up.
Date: 13/03/2022 03:17:11
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1859819
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
Sure, but my niggardly post was in response to the meme posted by dv which suggested that the UK had done nothing whilst the EU has been steadfast in opposing the Russians. That’s obvious bullshit when the Germans are not freezing – which means that they’re buying shitloads of gas and coal from the Russians. I was pointing out that the meme was crap – as the majority are.
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Summer is coming in Germany.
Date: 13/03/2022 03:23:01
From: sibeen
ID: 1859821
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Summer is coming in Germany.
Really…way to miss a cultural meme…
Date: 13/03/2022 03:29:31
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1859822
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
PermeateFree said:
sibeen said:
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Summer is coming in Germany.
Really…way to miss a cultural meme…
Really, how interesting.
Date: 13/03/2022 04:19:46
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859825
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
Sure, but my niggardly post was in response to the meme posted by dv which suggested that the UK had done nothing whilst the EU has been steadfast in opposing the Russians. That’s obvious bullshit when the Germans are not freezing – which means that they’re buying shitloads of gas and coal from the Russians. I was pointing out that the meme was crap – as the majority are.
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Late Winter this year?
Date: 13/03/2022 08:10:26
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859836
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Russians gunned down the humanitarian convoy of women and children during an evacuation from Peremoha village, Kyiv region, along pre-approved “green” corridor. Seven killed, including one child. Total casualties unknown”
“The attack took place on March 11 as a column of women and children was leaving the village Peremoha in Kyiv Oblast, using the approved corridor.
“A humanitarian convoy to Mariupol was entirely looted by Russian fascist soldiers. Everything was stolen: food, clothing and personal hygiene items. The invaders then stole the trucks, taking them to temporarily occupied Berdyansk. –via Zaporizhia region military administration”
Date: 13/03/2022 08:13:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859837
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
“Russians gunned down the humanitarian convoy of women and children during an evacuation from Peremoha village, Kyiv region, along pre-approved “green” corridor. Seven killed, including one child. Total casualties unknown”
“The attack took place on March 11 as a column of women and children was leaving the village Peremoha in Kyiv Oblast, using the approved corridor.
“A humanitarian convoy to Mariupol was entirely looted by Russian fascist soldiers. Everything was stolen: food, clothing and personal hygiene items. The invaders then stole the trucks, taking them to temporarily occupied Berdyansk. –via Zaporizhia region military administration”
It’s time someone took out Poo Tin and his cronies.
Date: 13/03/2022 08:20:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1859839
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Monument to the Duc de Richelieu peeps out of his sandbags, Odesa.
This exiled French aristocrat helped plan the modern city while serving as its governor from 1803-14.

Date: 13/03/2022 08:40:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859841
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Monument to the Duc de Richelieu peeps out of his sandbags, Odesa.
This exiled French aristocrat helped plan the modern city while serving as its governor from 1803-14.
How that’s going to help him, I’m not sure. The Russians are intent on exterminating Ukraine so that it can become Russia.
Date: 13/03/2022 09:04:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859845
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This is an interesting read. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-13/how-putin-infiltrated-republican-party-and-fox-news/100902786
Date: 13/03/2022 10:14:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1859852
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 13/03/2022 10:44:40
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859862
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 13/03/2022 10:53:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1859863
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
Fair enough. I am sure many citizens in both countries are wishing their government would do more.
The UK has far more options – although even they import oil from Russia. Germany is fucked. Winter is coming. They are hamstrung.
Late Winter this year?
remember when people freezing to death because of trade issues was hilariously funny
Date: 13/03/2022 12:31:36
From: dv
ID: 1859887
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Monument to the Duc de Richelieu peeps out of his sandbags, Odesa.
This exiled French aristocrat helped plan the modern city while serving as its governor from 1803-14.
How very interesting
Date: 13/03/2022 12:35:38
From: dv
ID: 1859888
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Apparently two FSB generals are under house-arrest. My google search is inexplicably timing out but there must be something out there on the web about this.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/11/russian-general-killed-and-clutch-of-spy-chiefs-arrested/
Putin ‘has placed the head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch under house arrest because he is furious at security services for failing to warn him’ that Ukraine could fiercely resist invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10603045/Putin-places-head-FSBs-foreign-intelligence-branch-house-arrest.html

Date: 13/03/2022 12:54:10
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859897
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502792114337366022
Sergeant Inna Derusova is the first woman to be awarded the Hero of Ukraine title posthumously.
A field medic, she was killed during the artillery attack on Okhtyrka on Feb. 24, the first day of Russia’s invasion. She saved more than 10 soldiers that day.
Date: 13/03/2022 12:58:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1859899
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Online auction site eBay has said that it is blocking all transactions involving Russian addresses due to “service interruptions by payment vendors and major shipping carriers.”
A spokesperson told CNBC:
We stand with Ukraine and are taking a number of steps to support the Ukrainian people and our sellers in the region.
As a result of service interruptions by payment vendors and major shipping carriers, we have temporarily suspended all transactions involving Russian addresses and transactions involving Ukraine addresses may experience delays.”
The company is taking a number of steps to support Ukrainians and sellers in the region, including waiving seller fees, protecting sellers from late shipment penalties and negative feedback and matching employee donations to organisations helping Ukraine.
The e-commerce company has already removed all products related to Russian President Vladimir Putin, citing its policy against items that promote or glorify hatred or violence.
Date: 13/03/2022 13:12:20
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859911
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ouch.
“Multiple sources say that Ukrainian forces knocked out the whole command of Russia’s 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade BTG in an ambush.”
Date: 13/03/2022 13:18:38
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1859915
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Ouch.
“Multiple sources say that Ukrainian forces knocked out the whole command of Russia’s 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade BTG in an ambush.”
Good.
Date: 13/03/2022 13:40:29
From: party_pants
ID: 1859919
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Not sure if this has already been posted. Johhno Pie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAblAQENQhE
Date: 13/03/2022 13:42:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1859921
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Wonder how much Putin is paying this traitor. And how long she’ll have to enjoy her new-found wealth before walking into a bullet:
>The Russian military has reportedly installed a new mayor in the occupied south-eastern Ukrainian city Melitopol following the alleged abduction of mayor Ivan Fedorov on Friday afternoon.
Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, earlier said Fedorov had been kidnapped and detained by a group of 10 armed men from the Russian forces.
Melitopol’s newly installed mayor is believed to be Galina Danilchenko, a former member of the city council, according to a statement on the Zaporozhye regional administration website, as reported by Ukrainian media, CNN and the BBC.
Danilchenko was reportedly introduced as the acting mayor on local TV where she made a televised statement saying her “main task is to take all necessary steps to get the city back to normal.”
She claimed there were people still in Melitopol who would try to destabilise “the situation and provoke a reaction of bad behaviour.”
“I ask you to keep your wits about you and not to give in to these provocations,” Danilchenko said. “I appeal to the deputies, elected by the people, on all levels. Since you were elected by the people, it is your duty to care about the well-being of your citizens.”
“This committee will be tasked with administrative responsibilities on the territory of Melitopol and the Melitopol region,” she added.
Date: 13/03/2022 13:50:22
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1859926
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Not sure if this has already been posted. Johhno Pie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAblAQENQhE
Definitely worth the repost if it had.
Date: 13/03/2022 14:15:20
From: dv
ID: 1859929
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Wonder how much Putin is paying this traitor. And how long she’ll have to enjoy her new-found wealth before walking into a bullet:
>The Russian military has reportedly installed a new mayor in the occupied south-eastern Ukrainian city Melitopol following the alleged abduction of mayor Ivan Fedorov on Friday afternoon.
Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, earlier said Fedorov had been kidnapped and detained by a group of 10 armed men from the Russian forces.
Melitopol’s newly installed mayor is believed to be Galina Danilchenko, a former member of the city council, according to a statement on the Zaporozhye regional administration website, as reported by Ukrainian media, CNN and the BBC.
Danilchenko was reportedly introduced as the acting mayor on local TV where she made a televised statement saying her “main task is to take all necessary steps to get the city back to normal.”
She claimed there were people still in Melitopol who would try to destabilise “the situation and provoke a reaction of bad behaviour.”
“I ask you to keep your wits about you and not to give in to these provocations,” Danilchenko said. “I appeal to the deputies, elected by the people, on all levels. Since you were elected by the people, it is your duty to care about the well-being of your citizens.”
“This committee will be tasked with administrative responsibilities on the territory of Melitopol and the Melitopol region,” she added.
Hope the deal included a speedboat
Date: 13/03/2022 14:25:13
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1859944
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Hope the deal included a speedboat
Yeah, you wouldn’t want a helicopter as part of the package.
Or a road vehicle.
The Ukrainian army has got pretty much the hang of hitting those by now.
Date: 13/03/2022 14:37:35
From: sibeen
ID: 1859958
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
party_pants said:
Not sure if this has already been posted. Johhno Pie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAblAQENQhE
Definitely worth the repost if it had.
+1
Date: 13/03/2022 15:13:23
From: fsm
ID: 1859977
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Google will immediately start rolling out alerts for incoming air raids to Ukrainian Android phone users in an effort to help them get to safety, the company announced.
In a company blog post Thursday, Kent Walker, president of global affairs for Google, said the Air Raid Alert system will work in conjunction with the Ukrainian government.
“At the request, and with the help, of the government of Ukraine, we’ve started rolling out a rapid Air Raid Alerts system for Android phones in Ukraine,” Walker wrote. “This work is supplemental to the country’s existing air raid alert systems, and based on alerts already being delivered by the Ukrainian government.”
Date: 13/03/2022 21:33:39
From: dv
ID: 1860123
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.newsweek.com/these-69-house-reps-voted-against-providing-ukraine-aid-1686658
These 69 House Reps Voted Against Ukraine Military Aid
The group of progressive Democrats known collectively as “The Squad” voted against the bill, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ilhan Omar (D-MN) and Rashida Tlaib (D-MI).at
Republicans who voted against the measures include Lauren Boebert (R-CO), Matt Gaetz (R-FL) and Lee Zeldin (R-NY).
Date: 13/03/2022 21:36:38
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860124
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.newsweek.com/these-69-house-reps-voted-against-providing-ukraine-aid-1686658
These 69 House Reps Voted Against Ukraine Military Aid
The group of progressive Democrats known collectively as “The Squad” voted against the bill, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ilhan Omar (D-MN) and Rashida Tlaib (D-MI).at
Republicans who voted against the measures include Lauren Boebert (R-CO), Matt Gaetz (R-FL) and Lee Zeldin (R-NY).
so do they count as extremists now
Date: 14/03/2022 00:18:45
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860154
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/annalisacamilli/status/1502978846500573185
“Ukrainian authorities report 1 American journalist killed and 1 wounded by Russian troops”
Date: 14/03/2022 10:41:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1860208
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Nasty.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/ukraine-alleges-russian-war-crime-phosphorus-bomb/100907224
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#International_law
Date: 14/03/2022 11:46:18
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1860246
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://interestingengineering.com/ukraine-ghost-of-kyiv-selfie
Link
Date: 14/03/2022 11:50:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860248
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 14/03/2022 11:57:27
From: Cymek
ID: 1860253
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Should a stand be made in Ukraine by whomever to help them fight back and risk WW3, is another world war inevitable (I personally think it is) and we can decided were and when.
Date: 14/03/2022 11:59:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860254
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Michael V said:
Nasty.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/ukraine-alleges-russian-war-crime-phosphorus-bomb/100907224
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#International_law
What Makes Russians Like Phosphorus ¿
Bad stuff.
Russians would like it because, well, they’re arseholes.
Dunno if you still can, but you could get WP grenades until a couple of decades back. Supposedly for smoke generation, but, if the situation demands it…
“Whiskey Papa, make you a believer” was the saying.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:02:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860256
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Should a stand be made in Ukraine by whomever to help them fight back and risk WW3, is another world war inevitable (I personally think it is) and we can decided were and when.
NATO could intervene by imposing a no-fly zone over Ukrainian skies, but they’re not going to do so.
Putin is relying on NATO interpreting direct engagement with Russian forces as “too risky” due to the nuclear threat.
He’s also relying on Western governments placing a higher value on the lives of their populations than he places on the lives of Russians.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:02:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1860258
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Should a stand be made in Ukraine by whomever to help them fight back and risk WW3, is another world war inevitable (I personally think it is) and we can decided were and when.
Escalating to a wider war could lead to the deaths of millions while limiting the war to Russia versus Ukraine will probably just result in a Russian pull-back in the months ahead IMO.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:07:06
From: Cymek
ID: 1860262
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Should a stand be made in Ukraine by whomever to help them fight back and risk WW3, is another world war inevitable (I personally think it is) and we can decided were and when.
Escalating to a wider war could lead to the deaths of millions while limiting the war to Russia versus Ukraine will probably just result in a Russian pull-back in the months ahead IMO.
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:10:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860266
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
… a Russian pull-back in the months ahead IMO.
Modern ‘limited’ wars are won by the side which will tolerate the higher price.
Both sides feed people and machines into the fire. It’s the side which blinks first at the cost in lives and treasure that loses.
Russia will win if Putin can keep the cost hidden from the Russian people, and as long as his military see it as a chance to justify their existence and budgets.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:13:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860268
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
Michael V said:
Nasty.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/ukraine-alleges-russian-war-crime-phosphorus-bomb/100907224
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#International_law
What Makes Russians Like Phosphorus ¿
Bad stuff.
Russians would like it because, well, they’re arseholes.
Dunno if you still can, but you could get WP grenades until a couple of decades back. Supposedly for smoke generation, but, if the situation demands it…
“Whiskey Papa, make you a believer” was the saying.
white, red, …
Date: 14/03/2022 12:18:28
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860272
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
What Makes Russians Like Phosphorus ¿
Bad stuff.
Russians would like it because, well, they’re arseholes.
Dunno if you still can, but you could get WP grenades until a couple of decades back. Supposedly for smoke generation, but, if the situation demands it…
“Whiskey Papa, make you a believer” was the saying.
white, red, …

I love Poland
3 hrs ·
Historical events are always accompanied by art that documents them. I recommend a very beautiful work by Mr. Aleksander Małachowski (Hashtagalek), who wonderfully depicted what is happening now between Poles and Ukrainians fleeing the war.
Like Poles Too
Date: 14/03/2022 12:22:16
From: Michael V
ID: 1860275
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Should a stand be made in Ukraine by whomever to help them fight back and risk WW3, is another world war inevitable (I personally think it is) and we can decided were and when.
Escalating to a wider war could lead to the deaths of millions while limiting the war to Russia versus Ukraine will probably just result in a Russian pull-back in the months ahead IMO.
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
Date: 14/03/2022 12:22:54
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860278
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Escalating to a wider war could lead to the deaths of millions while limiting the war to Russia versus Ukraine will probably just result in a Russian pull-back in the months ahead IMO.
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
so generally it’s only a war crime if they lose
Date: 14/03/2022 12:26:54
From: Cymek
ID: 1860280
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Escalating to a wider war could lead to the deaths of millions while limiting the war to Russia versus Ukraine will probably just result in a Russian pull-back in the months ahead IMO.
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
I was thinking modern weapons being much more guided means its not an accident, but yes what you mentioned above is true.
Wasn’t some of it everyone was sick of war and didn’t care anymore
Date: 14/03/2022 12:27:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1860281
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Michael V said:
Cymek said:
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
so generally it’s only a war crime if they lose
True that is
Date: 14/03/2022 12:27:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1860282
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Michael V said:
Cymek said:
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
so generally it’s only a war crime if they lose
I have no idea. I’m no student of war. War disgusts me.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:29:23
From: Cymek
ID: 1860284
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
Michael V said:
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
so generally it’s only a war crime if they lose
I have no idea. I’m no student of war. War disgusts me.
Waste isn’t it, was thinking the other night from the point of engineers/construction you spend years sometimes building something and it can be destroyed in second.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:29:30
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860285
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Escalating to a wider war could lead to the deaths of millions while limiting the war to Russia versus Ukraine will probably just result in a Russian pull-back in the months ahead IMO.
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
Dan Carlin does a good podcast on the the ‘logical insanity’ encountered in war, including ‘strategic bombing’.
https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-extra-logical-insanity/
Unfortunately, it’s not one of his free podcast.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:32:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1860287
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
Cymek said:
It could be, would it be a wake up call to the human race to change its ways and cooperate instead of compete and kill.
The Russians are deliberately killing civilians, its a war so yes they would get killed but usually by accident instead of directly targeted.
Oh, I don’t know about that. London (Battle of Britain), Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki come to mind immediately. I’m sure a student of war could find many, many more examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
Dan Carlin does a good podcast on the the ‘logical insanity’ encountered in war, including ‘strategic bombing’.
https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-extra-logical-insanity/
Unfortunately, it’s not one of his free podcast.
Perhaps instead of war, two nations have a boxing/martial arts match and the winner wins the outcome they want, the aggressor has a penalty as they started it and pay compensation for being a prick.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:32:43
From: Kingy
ID: 1860288
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
so generally it’s only a war crime if they lose
I have no idea. I’m no student of war. War disgusts me.
Waste isn’t it, was thinking the other night from the point of engineers/construction you spend years sometimes building something and it can be destroyed in second.
There is an old saying…
Military engineers build weapons.
Civil engineers build targets.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:36:04
From: dv
ID: 1860289
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia is bombing bases within 50 km of the Polish border now so I hope there aren’t any happy little accidents.
Date: 14/03/2022 12:56:41
From: Michael V
ID: 1860295
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russia is bombing bases within 50 km of the Polish border now so I hope there aren’t any happy little accidents.
Unhappy, in my opinion.
Date: 14/03/2022 13:17:31
From: dv
ID: 1860301
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs
CGP Grey: The Rules for Rulers
This video is a few years old but I’ve been thinking on it lately, wondering whether Putin can hold power
Date: 14/03/2022 13:20:41
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1860302
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Traditional neutral country Sweden is thinking of joining NATO, also Finland., apparently.
Date: 14/03/2022 13:45:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860306
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Traditional neutral country Sweden is thinking of joining NATO, also Finland., apparently.
All that rot about Putin wanting to keep Ukraine as a ‘buffer’ between Russia and NATO.
In recent times, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania joined NATO, and there’s no ‘buffer’ there.
OK, they may not worry Russia, they’re small, even the Russian army could overrun them.
But, Russia has had a direct border with NATO for many years, up in the northern part of Norway near Murmansk. Although that short and more isolated border might be more tolerable to the Russians, as it’d be a BIG effort to mount an invasion from a few kms west of Murmansk. Ukraine is perhaps a different story.
Date: 14/03/2022 13:49:22
From: Cymek
ID: 1860307
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Traditional neutral country Sweden is thinking of joining NATO, also Finland., apparently.
All that rot about Putin wanting to keep Ukraine as a ‘buffer’ between Russia and NATO.
In recent times, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania joined NATO, and there’s no ‘buffer’ there.
OK, they may not worry Russia, they’re small, even the Russian army could overrun them.
But, Russia has had a direct border with NATO for many years, up in the northern part of Norway near Murmansk. Although that short and more isolated border might be more tolerable to the Russians, as it’d be a BIG effort to mount an invasion from a few kms west of Murmansk. Ukraine is perhaps a different story.
Always thought Putin pines for the USSR days, Russia is a shadow of that empire and becoming less relevant.
Date: 14/03/2022 14:00:28
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1860309
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Traditional neutral country Sweden is thinking of joining NATO, also Finland., apparently.
All that rot about Putin wanting to keep Ukraine as a ‘buffer’ between Russia and NATO.
In recent times, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania joined NATO, and there’s no ‘buffer’ there.
OK, they may not worry Russia, they’re small, even the Russian army could overrun them.
But, Russia has had a direct border with NATO for many years, up in the northern part of Norway near Murmansk. Although that short and more isolated border might be more tolerable to the Russians, as it’d be a BIG effort to mount an invasion from a few kms west of Murmansk. Ukraine is perhaps a different story.
Always thought Putin pines for the USSR days, Russia is a shadow of that empire and becoming less relevant.
Putin pining for the fiords could be another reason for Sweden to join NSTO
Date: 14/03/2022 14:02:21
From: dv
ID: 1860310
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Russians are making steady ground progress in the East.
But at least they are paying for it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/10/drone-footage-russia-tanks-ambushed-ukraine-forces-kyiv-war
Date: 14/03/2022 14:03:54
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860311
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Putin pining for the fiords could be another reason for Sweden to join NSTO
If the Finns join NATO, he’ll burst a foo-foo valve.
Date: 14/03/2022 14:15:30
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1860312
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The Russians are making steady ground progress in the East.
But at least they are paying for it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/10/drone-footage-russia-tanks-ambushed-ukraine-forces-kyiv-war
Good.
Date: 14/03/2022 14:47:43
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1860315
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bit more to toss into the maelstrom.
Russia has asked China for military equipment to help in the invasion of Ukraine, sparking concerns that Beijing may undermine Western efforts to help Ukrainian forces defend their country, according to US officials cited by the Reuters news agency.
US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan planned to make Washington’s concerns clear, while mapping out the consequences and growing isolation China would face globally if it increased its support of Russia, when he meets Chinese diplomat Yang Jiechi in Rome on Monday, one US official cited by Reuters said.
When asked about Russia’s request for military aid, first reported by the UK’s Financial Times, Liu Pengyu, spokesperson for China’s embassy in Washington, said: “I’ve never heard of that.”
He said China found the current situation in Ukraine “disconcerting” and added: “We support and encourage all efforts that are conducive to a peaceful settlement of the crisis.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/us-warns-china-of-consequences-russia-aid-ukraine-war/100908282
Date: 14/03/2022 15:49:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860321
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Bit more to toss into the maelstrom.
Russia has asked China for military equipment to help in the invasion of Ukraine, sparking concerns that Beijing may undermine Western efforts to help Ukrainian forces defend their country, according to US officials cited by the Reuters news agency.
US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan planned to make Washington’s concerns clear, while mapping out the consequences and growing isolation China would face globally if it increased its support of Russia, when he meets Chinese diplomat Yang Jiechi in Rome on Monday, one US official cited by Reuters said.
When asked about Russia’s request for military aid, first reported by the UK’s Financial Times, Liu Pengyu, spokesperson for China’s embassy in Washington, said: “I’ve never heard of that.”
He said China found the current situation in Ukraine “disconcerting” and added: “We support and encourage all efforts that are conducive to a peaceful settlement of the crisis.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/us-warns-china-of-consequences-russia-aid-ukraine-war/100908282
exciting, what next, all the USSA need is to find evidence of CHINA equipment in Ukraine like their WMDs in Iraq and it’s on
Date: 14/03/2022 16:26:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860338
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
exciting, what next, all the USSA need is to find evidence of CHINA equipment in Ukraine like their WMDs in Iraq and it’s on
Not at all like it.
The US never said that it had found WMDs in Iraq.
They old the UN that it had reliable intelligence data that Iraq was developing WMDs, and that this represented a threat to neighbouring countries, and through what it claimed were links to Al-Qaeda, to other countries in other parts of the world.
The problem that the US had was that it was too willing to believe what it was told by its sources in the area, who were only too willing to tell the US what they believed they wanted to hear. The US forgot one of the basics of intelligence which is that you can very rarely entirely trust just one source, or even just a couple of sources, on a critical matters.
Date: 14/03/2022 16:30:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860344
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
exciting, what next, all the USSA need is to find evidence of CHINA equipment in Ukraine like their WMDs in Iraq and it’s on
Not at all like it.
The US never said that it had found WMDs in Iraq.
They old the UN that it had reliable intelligence data that Iraq was developing WMDs, and that this represented a threat to neighbouring countries, and through what it claimed were links to Al-Qaeda, to other countries in other parts of the world.
The problem that the US had was that it was too willing to believe what it was told by its sources in the area, who were only too willing to tell the US what they believed they wanted to hear. The US forgot one of the basics of intelligence which is that you can very rarely entirely trust just one source, or even just a couple of sources, on a critical matters.
so this time it’s actually Putin who done the GWB thing could we say
Date: 14/03/2022 16:31:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860345
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
so this time it’s actually Putin who done the GWB thing could we say
Yeah, he reckons Ukraine is run by Nazis.
Zelensky’s Jewish, but you never know, the Nazis may have relaxed the membership rules lately.
Date: 14/03/2022 19:08:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860465
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Moved from elsewhere:
mollwollfumble said:
Sadly, NATO troops have already crossed the border from Poland into the Ukraine, and have taken up positions around the city of Lviv.
It’s a NATO training base, although there would be no NATO troops there at the moment.
Date: 14/03/2022 20:11:36
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1860489
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Heidi just booked two nights at a LGBT friendly airbnb in Kyiv. One of the women works in localradio and tv.

Date: 14/03/2022 20:13:02
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1860491
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Heidi just booked two nights at a LGBT friendly airbnb in Kyiv. One of the women works in localradio and tv.

Well done Heidi.
Date: 14/03/2022 22:06:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860553
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia’s internet, after western internet and social media firms pull out of Russia:

Date: 14/03/2022 22:25:01
From: dv
ID: 1860578
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Australia and the Netherlands initiate legal proceedings against Russia in ICAO over downed MH17 flight
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/australia-netherlands-mh17-legal-proceedings-against-russia/100909240
Australia and the Netherlands have initiated legal proceedings against Russia for the downing of flight MH17.
All 298 people on board the plane, including 38 Australian citizens and residents, died when a Russian-made Buk missile hit the plane in 2014.
Date: 15/03/2022 00:01:11
From: dv
ID: 1860615
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 15/03/2022 00:03:56
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860616
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

¿ wait so Russia would rather sacrifice all its own first before burning off foreign fools ?
Date: 15/03/2022 00:05:04
From: dv
ID: 1860617
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:

¿ wait so Russia would rather sacrifice all its own first before burning off foreign fools ?
Or they’ve had to change their plans
Date: 15/03/2022 00:41:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860623
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:

¿ wait so Russia would rather sacrifice all its own first before burning off foreign fools ?
Or they’ve had to change their plans
like outsourcing their crimes
Mr Kadyrov, who is accused by international NGOs of serious human rights violations in the tightly controlled Caucasus republic, posted a video on Telegram of himself in military uniform studying plans around a table with soldiers in a room.
He called on Ukrainian forces to surrender “or you will be finished”.
“We will show you that Russian practice teaches warfare better than foreign theory and the recommendations of military advisers,” he added.
no wait that was always the plan
Date: 15/03/2022 04:34:50
From: dv
ID: 1860640
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-60736583
A protest on the balcony of a mansion believed to belong to Vladimir Putin ally Oleg Deripaska is continuing, despite the arrival of riot police.
The protesters said they were reclaiming 5 Belgrave Square, in central London, for Ukrainian refugees.
The protesters said there were about 200 rooms in the “ridiculous” mansion, which was “filthy fancy” and had “so much stuff a normal human being would never need”, including a home cinema and works of art.
In response, the prime minister’s official spokesman said: “Squatting in residential buildings is illegal.
“But we are working to identify the appropriate use for seized properties while owners are subject to sanctions.”
Date: 15/03/2022 06:25:51
From: dv
ID: 1860647
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia continues its assault on Kyiv: One person has died and six more were injured when an apartment building in the city’s Obolon district was hit earlier today. People living in the area were visibly in shock. Many were crying, seeking refuge with relatives and friends. A man and a woman who live on the ninth floor of the building told CNN they were woken up by the sudden sound of a massive explosion.
Russian advances “remain stalled” in Ukraine: “Almost all” of the Russian advances in Ukraine “remain stalled,” a senior US defense official said Monday during a background briefing with reporters. Russian forces moving on Kyiv, including the infamous convoy to the north, have not appreciably progressed over the weekend, said the official, though the US does see Russia trying to “flow in forces behind the advance elements” moving to the north of Kyiv.
Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck” Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities: Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities,” in the ongoing war in Ukraine, a senior US defense official told reporters on Monday. The US has seen examples of Ukrainians targeting Russian sustainment and logistics capabilities in their strikes on the large Russian military convoy that is outside of Kyiv, the official said.
Date: 15/03/2022 07:08:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860658
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russia continues its assault on Kyiv: One person has died and six more were injured when an apartment building in the city’s Obolon district was hit earlier today. People living in the area were visibly in shock. Many were crying, seeking refuge with relatives and friends. A man and a woman who live on the ninth floor of the building told CNN they were woken up by the sudden sound of a massive explosion.
Russian advances “remain stalled” in Ukraine: “Almost all” of the Russian advances in Ukraine “remain stalled,” a senior US defense official said Monday during a background briefing with reporters. Russian forces moving on Kyiv, including the infamous convoy to the north, have not appreciably progressed over the weekend, said the official, though the US does see Russia trying to “flow in forces behind the advance elements” moving to the north of Kyiv.
Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck” Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities: Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities,” in the ongoing war in Ukraine, a senior US defense official told reporters on Monday. The US has seen examples of Ukrainians targeting Russian sustainment and logistics capabilities in their strikes on the large Russian military convoy that is outside of Kyiv, the official said.
Yep, they can’t shoot anyone if they can’t get supplies of bullets.
Supply is a most ‘unglamourous’ field of endeavour, but none of the front-line ‘heroes’ can function without it.
Date: 15/03/2022 07:41:33
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1860661
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Russia continues its assault on Kyiv: One person has died and six more were injured when an apartment building in the city’s Obolon district was hit earlier today. People living in the area were visibly in shock. Many were crying, seeking refuge with relatives and friends. A man and a woman who live on the ninth floor of the building told CNN they were woken up by the sudden sound of a massive explosion.
Russian advances “remain stalled” in Ukraine: “Almost all” of the Russian advances in Ukraine “remain stalled,” a senior US defense official said Monday during a background briefing with reporters. Russian forces moving on Kyiv, including the infamous convoy to the north, have not appreciably progressed over the weekend, said the official, though the US does see Russia trying to “flow in forces behind the advance elements” moving to the north of Kyiv.
Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck” Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities: Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities,” in the ongoing war in Ukraine, a senior US defense official told reporters on Monday. The US has seen examples of Ukrainians targeting Russian sustainment and logistics capabilities in their strikes on the large Russian military convoy that is outside of Kyiv, the official said.
Yep, they can’t shoot anyone if they can’t get supplies of bullets.
Supply is a most ‘unglamourous’ field of endeavour, but none of the front-line ‘heroes’ can function without it.
A saying I heard explains it quite well – Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
Date: 15/03/2022 07:48:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 1860662
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Russia continues its assault on Kyiv: One person has died and six more were injured when an apartment building in the city’s Obolon district was hit earlier today. People living in the area were visibly in shock. Many were crying, seeking refuge with relatives and friends. A man and a woman who live on the ninth floor of the building told CNN they were woken up by the sudden sound of a massive explosion.
Russian advances “remain stalled” in Ukraine: “Almost all” of the Russian advances in Ukraine “remain stalled,” a senior US defense official said Monday during a background briefing with reporters. Russian forces moving on Kyiv, including the infamous convoy to the north, have not appreciably progressed over the weekend, said the official, though the US does see Russia trying to “flow in forces behind the advance elements” moving to the north of Kyiv.
Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck” Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities: Ukrainian forces have “effectively struck Russian logistics and sustainment capabilities,” in the ongoing war in Ukraine, a senior US defense official told reporters on Monday. The US has seen examples of Ukrainians targeting Russian sustainment and logistics capabilities in their strikes on the large Russian military convoy that is outside of Kyiv, the official said.
Yep, they can’t shoot anyone if they can’t get supplies of bullets.
Supply is a most ‘unglamourous’ field of endeavour, but none of the front-line ‘heroes’ can function without it.
A saying I heard explains it quite well – Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
It appears to me that Ukraine has better logistics than the Russians.
Date: 15/03/2022 08:58:19
From: Michael V
ID: 1860667
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Yep, they can’t shoot anyone if they can’t get supplies of bullets.
Supply is a most ‘unglamourous’ field of endeavour, but none of the front-line ‘heroes’ can function without it.
A saying I heard explains it quite well – Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
It appears to me that Ukraine has better logistics than the Russians.
It is their country, after all, so I’d expect that.
Date: 15/03/2022 08:59:05
From: Michael V
ID: 1860668
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Strongman Chechnyan leader Ramzan Kadyrov says he has joined Russian forces in Ukraine.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/kadyrov-ukraine-russia-checknya/100909820
Date: 15/03/2022 09:00:52
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1860669
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.facebook.com/peterturnleyofficial
Link
© Photograph by Peter Turnley, March 13, Medyka, Poland border crossing.
© All photographs by Peter Turnley, Ukraine, March 11, 2022.
I do not authorize or give permission for any photograph or words of mine published here to be used or published in any form or venue outside of being shared on facebook
all those without FB miss out.
Date: 15/03/2022 09:05:04
From: Michael V
ID: 1860670
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bogsnorkler said:
https://www.facebook.com/peterturnleyofficial
Link
© Photograph by Peter Turnley, March 13, Medyka, Poland border crossing.
© All photographs by Peter Turnley, Ukraine, March 11, 2022.
I do not authorize or give permission for any photograph or words of mine published here to be used or published in any form or venue outside of being shared on facebook
all those without FB miss out.
No worries.
Date: 15/03/2022 09:05:49
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860671
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
Yep, they can’t shoot anyone if they can’t get supplies of bullets.
Supply is a most ‘unglamourous’ field of endeavour, but none of the front-line ‘heroes’ can function without it.
A saying I heard explains it quite well – Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
It appears to me that Ukraine has better logistics than the Russians.
Ukrain’s tactics of concentrating on Russia’s poor logistics are so far working. You don’t need logistics when you are at home.
Date: 15/03/2022 09:08:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 1860673
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
roughbarked said:
Spiny Norman said:
A saying I heard explains it quite well – Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
It appears to me that Ukraine has better logistics than the Russians.
Ukrain’s tactics of concentrating on Russia’s poor logistics are so far working. You don’t need logistics when you are at home.
✅
Date: 15/03/2022 09:18:36
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860675
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/EvaHartog/status/1503052953690963968
Protester: “How long do you think before I get arrested with this sign saying ‘two words’ (NO WAR).”
Turns out the answer is “4 seconds”.
Date: 15/03/2022 09:19:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1860676
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/EvaHartog/status/1503052953690963968
Protester: “How long do you think before I get arrested with this sign saying ‘two words’ (NO WAR).”
Turns out the answer is “4 seconds”.
Brave girl.
Date: 15/03/2022 09:31:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860681
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/EvaHartog/status/1503052953690963968
Protester: “How long do you think before I get arrested with this sign saying ‘two words’ (NO WAR).”
Turns out the answer is “4 seconds”.
Brave girl.
They arrested a bicycle, too.
Brave bike.
Date: 15/03/2022 11:40:05
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860754
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
Date: 15/03/2022 11:41:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860755
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
Date: 15/03/2022 11:45:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860757
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
“ …we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Jury is most definitely out on that one.
“…as well as MRE food rations.”
‘What’s for dinner, Alexei?’
‘F***ing Chinese food again.’
Date: 15/03/2022 11:47:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860758
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Bayraktar song:
Ukrainians wrote a song for Bayraktar TB2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=890z0skXQzI
Date: 15/03/2022 11:54:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860761
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
“ …we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Jury is most definitely out on that one.
“…as well as MRE food rations.”
‘What’s for dinner, Alexei?’
‘F***ing Chinese food again.’
anyway remember how they told us that Russia-Ukraine was a proxy war between CHINA and USSA, now
Date: 15/03/2022 11:56:10
From: Cymek
ID: 1860765
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
Xi “In the old days we borrow equipment from you for war in Korea, you no longer big man Putin”
Putin “SHUTUP, were my horse, I prove my virility ride shirtless on a pony”
Date: 15/03/2022 12:07:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860771
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
Indeed. But two weeks into a war special operation and the mighty Russia has run out of basic hardware?
Date: 15/03/2022 12:08:34
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860773
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
“ …we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Jury is most definitely out on that one.
Civilian fatalities included.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:09:47
From: Cymek
ID: 1860774
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
Indeed. But two weeks into a war special operation and the mighty Russia has run out of basic hardware?
Supposedly their economy isn’t much bigger than ours
Date: 15/03/2022 12:11:15
From: Tamb
ID: 1860775
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
Indeed. But two weeks into a war special operation and the mighty Russia has run out of basic hardware?
Supposedly their economy isn’t much bigger than ours
About the same size as Spain’s.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:11:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“The US reportedly believes Russia solicited 5 types of military gear from China, including surface-to-air-missiles, drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles, and intelligence-related equipment, as well as MRE food rations.”
Xi: “Hiya Vlad, how goes the war?”
Putin: “Good, good… we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Xi: “Well, keep it up mate.”
Putin: “So… about that… Could I borrow some stuff from you?”
Xi: “Anything for a mate, whacha need?”
Putin: “Everything”
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
Indeed. But two weeks into a war special operation and the mighty Russia has run out of basic hardware?
You don’t get to have a $580million dollar yacht by letting the ‘defence’ budget money get to the ‘defence’ forces, y’know.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:12:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860777
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
captain_spalding said:
“ …we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Jury is most definitely out on that one.
Civilian fatalities included.
To look at it awfully brutally, the civilian dead don’t count.
The war is more directly affected by the number of dead amongst the trigger-pulling populations.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:13:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1860778
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:
to be fair probably a large fraction of what most people around the world use for stuff is sourced from CHINA dirty little industrial economy that it is
Indeed. But two weeks into a war special operation and the mighty Russia has run out of basic hardware?
You don’t get to have a $580million dollar yacht by letting the ‘defence’ budget money get to the ‘defence’ forces, y’know.
It also seems modern weapons for the most part are so complex that you can’t just build them in a hurry to replace destroyed or used ones.
Could be that a full scale war only has the equipment already built and if you run out before its won you are in trouble.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:16:37
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860779
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
captain_spalding said:
“ …we have killed more of them than they have of us.”
Jury is most definitely out on that one.
Civilian fatalities included.
To look at it awfully brutally, the civilian dead don’t count.
The war is more directly affected by the number of dead amongst the trigger-pulling populations.
I don’t disagree. My initial “We have killed more of them” was satirical, implying that it is a valid KPI for success. And including civilians in that number made it even less valid.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:25:26
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860780
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
It also seems modern weapons for the most part are so complex that you can’t just build them in a hurry to replace destroyed or used ones.
Could be that a full scale war only has the equipment already built and if you run out before its won you are in trouble.
This has been the case since the 1960s.
The days of ‘ramping up’ production during a protracted war, like in the 1940s, are gone. The last time that might have been possible was in the early- to mid-1950s.
No more turning out a bomber every hour, no more building ships from scratch in 5 or 6 weeks in multiple yards.
Now, you go to war with what you’ve got, and replacements are very much a ‘maybe’ thing, and not to be counted on. If you have 100 tanks, and number 100 gets destroyed, that could well be it.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:27:42
From: Tamb
ID: 1860781
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
It also seems modern weapons for the most part are so complex that you can’t just build them in a hurry to replace destroyed or used ones.
Could be that a full scale war only has the equipment already built and if you run out before its won you are in trouble.
This has been the case since the 1960s.
The days of ‘ramping up’ production during a protracted war, like in the 1940s, are gone. The last time that might have been possible was in the early- to mid-1950s.
No more turning out a bomber every hour, no more building ships from scratch in 5 or 6 weeks in multiple yards.
Now, you go to war with what you’ve got, and replacements are very much a ‘maybe’ thing, and not to be counted on. If you have 100 tanks, and number 100 gets destroyed, that could well be it.
The chip shortage would also have a large impact.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:35:33
From: Michael V
ID: 1860785
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia: “We are not targeting civilians.”
Me: “What? Watch this video.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-15/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv-un/100898798

Date: 15/03/2022 12:38:29
From: Tamb
ID: 1860787
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Russia: “We are not targeting civilians.”
Me: “What? Watch this video.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-15/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv-un/100898798

Russia: “You have denied us accurate targeting equipment. It’s your fault civilians are being injured”.
Date: 15/03/2022 12:50:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860793
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Russia: “We are not targeting
yes indeed
Date: 15/03/2022 12:57:14
From: dv
ID: 1860794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
They can’t put us all in prison’: Bravest woman in Russia reveals why she had to protest against Putin’s war on state television and says she is ashamed at pumping out Kremlin propaganda for years as TV editor
A Russian woman ran onto live state TV news with a sign protesting Ukraine war
Marina Ovsyannikova is an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal
The brave editor held a sign that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda!’
She was arrested by police after her actions at the studios in Ostankino, Moscow
Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal (Channel One), held up a sign on the broadcaster’s main evening news show, Vremya, that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda! They’re lying to you here! Russians against war.’
Channel One was the first station to broadcast in the Russian Federation after the fall of the Soviet Union and has more than 250 million viewers across the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10612393/TV-editor-runs-Russian-state-TV-sign-saying-Stop-war-Dont-believe-propaganda.html
Date: 15/03/2022 13:13:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860796
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ABC News:
‘Russians flock to McDonald’s for last meal before doors close’

Date: 15/03/2022 13:14:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860797
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
‘Russians flock to McDonald’s for last meal before doors close’

American Imperialism
Date: 15/03/2022 13:16:25
From: Tamb
ID: 1860798
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
‘Russians flock to McDonald’s for last meal before doors close’

How do we know it isn’t a
CIA plot to counter the serious outbreak of peace.
Date: 15/03/2022 13:23:04
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860801
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
‘Russians flock to McDonald’s for last meal before doors close’

How do we know it isn’t a CIA plot to counter the serious outbreak of peace.
If any of the sanctions are going to work, it’ll be the Maccas one.
Just ask this chap:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/agg1ZNK_460svav1.mp4
Date: 15/03/2022 14:33:42
From: Michael V
ID: 1860838
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Civilians escape Mariupol but aid convoy blocked.
Russian forces let the first column of cars escape Ukraine’s besieged port of Mariupol but blocked an aid convoy trying to reach the city, Ukraine said, after 10 days of failed attempts to rescue civilians under relentless bombardment.
A convoy of 160 civilian cars left the encircled port city along a designated humanitarian route, the city council reported, in a rare glimmer of hope a week and a half into the lethal siege that has pulverized homes and other buildings and left people desperate for food, water, heat and medicine.
But Kyrylo Tymoshenko, a senior aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy later said Russia had yet again blocked a humanitarian aid convoy trying to reach the city with supplies.
Obtaining safe passage for aid to reach Mariupol and civilians to get out has been Kyiv’s main demand at several rounds of talks. All previous attempts at a local ceasefire in the area have failed.
Russian and Ukrainian delegations held a fourth round of talks on Monday – by video link rather than in person in neighbouring Belarus as in the past – but no new progress was announced.
AP/Reuters”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-15/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv-un/100898798
Date: 15/03/2022 14:44:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860843
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/russian-invasion-of-ukraine-has-parallels-to-china-and-taiwan/100857426
Would the US send peacekeeper forces to Taiwan? Would Australia?
Australia’s Defence Minister Peter Dutton was asked last week if Canberra would send arms or troops to Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion, given the country* is a close ally to the US and the proximity to the region.
*: The island is not recognised as an independent country except by a handful of states.
the crisis in East Asia has had no apparent impact on the Donbas separatists, which were not afraid to declare independence.
Date: 15/03/2022 15:22:32
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860847
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This is nuts – like a video game set to easy mode:
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1503357465701855235
Notice all the infantrymen behind the second target – a shot into the target, then the old Ned Kelly takedown, then back to the target.
Date: 15/03/2022 15:49:30
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860849
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I wouldn’t like to be the Russian soldier who runs up against this chap:

He means what he says. He won’t be asking for quarter, and he won’t be giving any.
Date: 15/03/2022 15:49:47
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860850
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Forgot the link:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/azedyLN_460svav1.mp4
Date: 15/03/2022 15:57:47
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1860854
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Forgot the link:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/azedyLN_460svav1.mp4
It want’s me to register for a free months trial.
I declined.
Date: 15/03/2022 15:58:53
From: Kingy
ID: 1860856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
This is nuts – like a video game set to easy mode:
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1503357465701855235
Notice all the infantrymen behind the second target – a shot into the target, then the old Ned Kelly takedown, then back to the target.
At the end, he heads back towards the street with the very pissed off T72. Not sure that would be my decision, but I’m not there to see what other options were available.
Date: 15/03/2022 16:00:31
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860857
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
captain_spalding said:
Forgot the link:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/azedyLN_460svav1.mp4
It want’s me to register for a free months trial.
I declined.
Don’t know why it wants that.
Never seen such a thing associated with 9gag.
Date: 15/03/2022 16:05:02
From: Michael V
ID: 1860859
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
I wouldn’t like to be the Russian soldier who runs up against this chap:

He means what he says. He won’t be asking for quarter, and he won’t be giving any.
Oh yes. Very much so.
Quite moving.
Date: 15/03/2022 16:12:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860863
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
This is nuts – like a video game set to easy mode:
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1503357465701855235
Notice all the infantrymen behind the second target – a shot into the target, then the old Ned Kelly takedown, then back to the target.
The BTR-4 is a Ukrainian vehicle designed and made in Kharkiv.

Date: 15/03/2022 16:13:39
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860864
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1503586828489797634
Valery Kudinov, head of Russian civilian aviation’s airworthiness mgmt department, has been fired after telling reporters about China’s refusal to supply aircraft parts to Russia
Date: 15/03/2022 16:19:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860868
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
I wouldn’t like to be the Russian soldier who runs up against this chap:

He means what he says. He won’t be asking for quarter, and he won’t be giving any.
Oh yes. Very much so.
Quite moving.
As i watched it, it occurred to me that this man doesn’t fear being killed.
He died when he found out that his son was killed.
Date: 15/03/2022 16:24:25
From: Cymek
ID: 1860873
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
I wouldn’t like to be the Russian soldier who runs up against this chap:

He means what he says. He won’t be asking for quarter, and he won’t be giving any.
Oh yes. Very much so.
Quite moving.
As i watched it, it occurred to me that this man doesn’t fear being killed.
He died when he found out that his son was killed.
Lots of that, daughters as well, often children
Date: 15/03/2022 16:28:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860875
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
As i watched it, it occurred to me that this man doesn’t fear being killed.
He died when he found out that his son was killed.
Lots of that, daughters as well, often children
Russia may take over the territory, but that won’t be the end of the war. Ukrainians will be their sworn, relentless, and deadly enemies forever after this.
Date: 15/03/2022 16:41:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860882
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
captain_spalding said:
As i watched it, it occurred to me that this man doesn’t fear being killed.
He died when he found out that his son was killed.
Lots of that, daughters as well, often children
Russia may take over the territory, but that won’t be the end of the war. Ukrainians will be their sworn, relentless, and deadly enemies forever after this.
Surely only for 2 generations.
Date: 15/03/2022 18:31:36
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860912
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The bosses continue to tumble, as the funerals of Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev from the VDV’s 76th Air Assault are reported on by Russian media.
Date: 15/03/2022 18:36:17
From: Cymek
ID: 1860913
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
The bosses continue to tumble, as the funerals of Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev from the VDV’s 76th Air Assault are reported on by Russian media.
One does wonder if some of these supposedly great military forces are only competent fighting poorly equipped and trained civilian type soldiers.
Reading about the Russians it sounds like Putin didn’t have much of a clue about the poor state of his armed forces and how billions of dollars was stolen
Date: 15/03/2022 18:44:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860914
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
The bosses continue to tumble, as the funerals of Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev from the VDV’s 76th Air Assault are reported on by Russian media.
One does wonder if some of these supposedly great military forces are only competent fighting poorly equipped and trained civilian type soldiers.
Reading about the Russians it sounds like Putin didn’t have much of a clue about the poor state of his armed forces and how billions of dollars was stolen
Also what are they explaining to the people about how these top dogs died, COVID-19 ¿ Corruption purge ¿ Training accidents ¿
Date: 15/03/2022 18:46:43
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860916
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
The bosses continue to tumble, as the funerals of Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev from the VDV’s 76th Air Assault are reported on by Russian media.
One does wonder if some of these supposedly great military forces are only competent fighting poorly equipped and trained civilian type soldiers.
Reading about the Russians it sounds like Putin didn’t have much of a clue about the poor state of his armed forces and how billions of dollars was stolen
Also what are they explaining to the people about how these top dogs died, COVID-19 ¿ Corruption purge ¿ Training accidents ¿
Can’t have been killed in action, because Russia isn’t fighting anyone/anywhere, right?
Date: 15/03/2022 18:47:10
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860917
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Lots of that, daughters as well, often children
Russia may take over the territory, but that won’t be the end of the war. Ukrainians will be their sworn, relentless, and deadly enemies forever after this.
Surely only for 2 generations.
Ask the Armenians about that.
Date: 15/03/2022 18:47:30
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860919
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
One does wonder if some of these supposedly great military forces are only competent fighting poorly equipped and trained civilian type soldiers.
Reading about the Russians it sounds like Putin didn’t have much of a clue about the poor state of his armed forces and how billions of dollars was stolen
Also what are they explaining to the people about how these top dogs died, COVID-19 ¿ Corruption purge ¿ Training accidents ¿
Can’t have been killed in action, because Russia isn’t fighting anyone/anywhere, right?
That’s what makes it such an interesting exercise ¡
Date: 15/03/2022 18:48:37
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860920
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
Dark Orange said:
The bosses continue to tumble, as the funerals of Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev from the VDV’s 76th Air Assault are reported on by Russian media.
One does wonder if some of these supposedly great military forces are only competent fighting poorly equipped and trained civilian type soldiers.
Reading about the Russians it sounds like Putin didn’t have much of a clue about the poor state of his armed forces and how billions of dollars was stolen
Also what are they explaining to the people about how these top dogs died, COVID-19 ¿ Corruption purge ¿ Training accidents ¿
https://www.mk-pskov.ru/incident/2022/03/14/sostoyalis-pokhorony-pogibshikh-na-ukraine-dvukh-voennosluzhashhikh-iz-pskovskoy-oblasti.html
Funeral of two servicemen from the Pskov region who died in Ukraine took place
Today, on March 14, the funeral of two more servicemen of the Pskov Territorial Garrison took place. During the performance of military duty during a special military operation in Ukraine, Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev were killed. This was announced by the Governor of the Pskov region Mikhail Vedernikov in his Telegram.
“I offer sincere condolences to their families and friends. All the necessary assistance and support will be provided to the families. Eternal memory to our heroes,” he wrote.
We will remind, earlier there were funerals of two servicemen who died during a special operation in Ukraine – Captain Ilya Kuptsov and Sergeant Sergei Kochetkov.
Date: 15/03/2022 18:49:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860921
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Russia may take over the territory, but that won’t be the end of the war. Ukrainians will be their sworn, relentless, and deadly enemies forever after this.
Surely only for 2 generations.
Ask the Armenians about that.
Serious mode for just a moment though — we thought the whole point about achieving peace was that you can’t keep reviving the old grudges time and time again or the whole place is just fucked.
Date: 15/03/2022 18:52:52
From: sibeen
ID: 1860923
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
The bosses continue to tumble, as the funerals of Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev from the VDV’s 76th Air Assault are reported on by Russian media.
Not to be too scathing, but a Major and a Sergeant ain’t really senior or bosses in much of a way.
Date: 15/03/2022 18:55:39
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860925
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
One does wonder if some of these supposedly great military forces are only competent fighting poorly equipped and trained civilian type soldiers.
Reading about the Russians it sounds like Putin didn’t have much of a clue about the poor state of his armed forces and how billions of dollars was stolen
Also what are they explaining to the people about how these top dogs died, COVID-19 ¿ Corruption purge ¿ Training accidents ¿
https://www.mk-pskov.ru/incident/2022/03/14/sostoyalis-pokhorony-pogibshikh-na-ukraine-dvukh-voennosluzhashhikh-iz-pskovskoy-oblasti.html
Funeral of two servicemen from the Pskov region who died in Ukraine took place
Today, on March 14, the funeral of two more servicemen of the Pskov Territorial Garrison took place. During the performance of military duty during a special military operation in Ukraine, Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev were killed. This was announced by the Governor of the Pskov region Mikhail Vedernikov in his Telegram.
“I offer sincere condolences to their families and friends. All the necessary assistance and support will be provided to the families. Eternal memory to our heroes,” he wrote.
We will remind, earlier there were funerals of two servicemen who died during a special operation in Ukraine – Captain Ilya Kuptsov and Sergeant Sergei Kochetkov.
thanks
so what’s the go with the True Believers then
like, at what point of this special military operation, which was meant to be a walk in the park, do the people think, gee a lot of top players seem to be going under, how tough are these Nazis really
we’re sure people get killed while walking in the park all the time, but they’re usually younger females in Melbourne suburbs and such
Date: 15/03/2022 18:58:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860926
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
The bosses continue to tumble, as the funerals of Major Alexei Vorsyuchenko and Sergeant Pavel Bogatyrev from the VDV’s 76th Air Assault are reported on by Russian media.
Not to be too scathing, but a Major and a Sergeant ain’t really senior or bosses in much of a way.
Wait so there’s no funeral for the generals ¿
uh
Date: 15/03/2022 19:00:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860927
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Serious mode for just a moment though — we thought the whole point about achieving peace was that you can’t keep reviving the old grudges time and time again or the whole place is just fucked.
A lot depends on how the peace operates.
If, for example, the Allies had insisted on occupying Germany and Japan forever, then peace would never have been achieved.
As the countries economies recovered, and their governments took shape and began directing as much of their own affairs as the occupiers permitted, then the people would have eventually aspired to be entirely independent of the occupiers. A ‘resistance’ would undoubtedly have arisen, and the tribulations oft he past (real, aggrandised, and fictional) would have been kept alive and used to fuel that resistance and push to remove the occupiers, using methods which would surely have included guerilla/terrorist actions against them
I can’t imagine the Russians ever letting Ukraine function as a ‘non-occupied’ territory, and their occupation of that land (because that’s what it’ll be) will be what keeps the conflict alive.
Welcome to Vietnam on your own doorstep , Russia. ‘Ukraine’ will be the most feared word among Russian troops when it comes to postings.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:02:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860928
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
Serious mode for just a moment though — we thought the whole point about achieving peace was that you can’t keep reviving the old grudges time and time again or the whole place is just fucked.
A lot depends on how the peace operates.
If, for example, the Allies had insisted on occupying Germany and Japan forever, then peace would never have been achieved.
As the countries economies recovered, and their governments took shape and began directing as much of their own affairs as the occupiers permitted, then the people would have eventually aspired to be entirely independent of the occupiers. A ‘resistance’ would undoubtedly have arisen, and the tribulations oft he past (real, aggrandised, and fictional) would have been kept alive and used to fuel that resistance and push to remove the occupiers, using methods which would surely have included guerilla/terrorist actions against them
I can’t imagine the Russians ever letting Ukraine function as a ‘non-occupied’ territory, and their occupation of that land (because that’s what it’ll be) will be what keeps the conflict alive.
Welcome to Vietnam on your own doorstep , Russia. ‘Ukraine’ will be the most feared word among Russian troops when it comes to postings.
fair shot we suppose the 2 generations doesn’t really start counting until the occupation ends
we mean we acknowledge for example that Afghanistan had to be pulled at some stage
Date: 15/03/2022 19:08:28
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860929
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian heritage is under threat – and so is the truth about Soviet-era Russia
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/15/ukrainian-heritage-under-threat-truth-soviet-era-russia
Date: 15/03/2022 19:13:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860932
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
we mean we acknowledge for example that Afghanistan had to be pulled at some stage
Afghanistan played a good part in the fall of the Soviet empire.
The Soviets were already struggling to finance their military, as it consumed so much of the Soviet economy. Once it was mired up to its knackers in Afghanistan, the load became too much. Actual operational expenses, on top of the enormous ‘peacetime’ budget, were more than it could bear.
That played a big part in the re-think at the top. How can we keep Russia alive and functioning? The Soviet system wasn’t working, the military is sort of functioning (at stupendous expense), but not much else is working or improving. The Soviet way had to go.
When Brezhnev popped his clogs in ’82, it looked like (failing) business as usual. But then, the prompt death of Andropov and Chernenko cleared out the top floor of the Politburo, and let one of the reformers in.
Now that Putin has bogged Russia down in a new Afghanistan, he may find that, instead of achieving his daydream of restoring some Soviet empire, he’s just repeated one of the big mistakes that destroyed it.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:23:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860935
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
Serious mode for just a moment though — we thought the whole point about achieving peace was that you can’t keep reviving the old grudges time and time again or the whole place is just fucked.
A lot depends on how the peace operates.
If, for example, the Allies had insisted on occupying Germany and Japan forever, then peace would never have been achieved.
As the countries economies recovered, and their governments took shape and began directing as much of their own affairs as the occupiers permitted, then the people would have eventually aspired to be entirely independent of the occupiers. A ‘resistance’ would undoubtedly have arisen, and the tribulations oft he past (real, aggrandised, and fictional) would have been kept alive and used to fuel that resistance and push to remove the occupiers, using methods which would surely have included guerilla/terrorist actions against them
I can’t imagine the Russians ever letting Ukraine function as a ‘non-occupied’ territory, and their occupation of that land (because that’s what it’ll be) will be what keeps the conflict alive.
Welcome to Vietnam on your own doorstep , Russia. ‘Ukraine’ will be the most feared word among Russian troops when it comes to postings.
One thing Ukraine has is weapons, missiles and ammo coming in across from the east on an ongoing basis.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:24:28
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860936
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
we mean we acknowledge for example that Afghanistan had to be pulled at some stage
Afghanistan played a good part in the fall of the Soviet empire.
The Soviets were already struggling to finance their military, as it consumed so much of the Soviet economy. Once it was mired up to its knackers in Afghanistan, the load became too much. Actual operational expenses, on top of the enormous ‘peacetime’ budget, were more than it could bear.
That played a big part in the re-think at the top. How can we keep Russia alive and functioning? The Soviet system wasn’t working, the military is sort of functioning (at stupendous expense), but not much else is working or improving. The Soviet way had to go.
When Brezhnev popped his clogs in ’82, it looked like (failing) business as usual. But then, the prompt death of Andropov and Chernenko cleared out the top floor of the Politburo, and let one of the reformers in.
Now that Putin has bogged Russia down in a new Afghanistan, he may find that, instead of achieving his daydream of restoring some Soviet empire, he’s just repeated one of the big mistakes that destroyed it.
Afghanistan knocked them around, and then the US’s Star Wars/SDI was the final blow.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:25:14
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860937
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
Serious mode for just a moment though — we thought the whole point about achieving peace was that you can’t keep reviving the old grudges time and time again or the whole place is just fucked.
A lot depends on how the peace operates.
If, for example, the Allies had insisted on occupying Germany and Japan forever, then peace would never have been achieved.
As the countries economies recovered, and their governments took shape and began directing as much of their own affairs as the occupiers permitted, then the people would have eventually aspired to be entirely independent of the occupiers. A ‘resistance’ would undoubtedly have arisen, and the tribulations oft he past (real, aggrandised, and fictional) would have been kept alive and used to fuel that resistance and push to remove the occupiers, using methods which would surely have included guerilla/terrorist actions against them
I can’t imagine the Russians ever letting Ukraine function as a ‘non-occupied’ territory, and their occupation of that land (because that’s what it’ll be) will be what keeps the conflict alive.
Welcome to Vietnam on your own doorstep , Russia. ‘Ukraine’ will be the most feared word among Russian troops when it comes to postings.
One thing Ukraine has is weapons, missiles and ammo coming in across from the east on an ongoing basis.
cough West /cough
Date: 15/03/2022 19:25:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860938
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Afghanistan knocked them around, and then the US’s Star Wars/SDI was the final blow.
Yeah, SDI did put the wind up them a fair bit.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:26:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860939
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
captain_spalding said:
A lot depends on how the peace operates.
If, for example, the Allies had insisted on occupying Germany and Japan forever, then peace would never have been achieved.
As the countries economies recovered, and their governments took shape and began directing as much of their own affairs as the occupiers permitted, then the people would have eventually aspired to be entirely independent of the occupiers. A ‘resistance’ would undoubtedly have arisen, and the tribulations oft he past (real, aggrandised, and fictional) would have been kept alive and used to fuel that resistance and push to remove the occupiers, using methods which would surely have included guerilla/terrorist actions against them
I can’t imagine the Russians ever letting Ukraine function as a ‘non-occupied’ territory, and their occupation of that land (because that’s what it’ll be) will be what keeps the conflict alive.
Welcome to Vietnam on your own doorstep , Russia. ‘Ukraine’ will be the most feared word among Russian troops when it comes to postings.
One thing Ukraine has is weapons, missiles and ammo coming in across from the east on an ongoing basis.
cough West /cough
Wakes up suddenly, yes of course, how stupid, slaps face.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:27:55
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860940
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:30:02
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1860943
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
I hope they are not flying in.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:31:16
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860944
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
To which Zelensky might say “ nice to see you, how much ammunition did you bring with you?”.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:32:22
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860946
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
I hope they are not flying in.
It’s not the ‘flying in’ that’s the worry. It’s how they make it to the ground.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:33:04
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1860947
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
To which Zelensky might say “ nice to see you, how much ammunition did you bring with you?”.
LOL, yeah.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:34:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1860948
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.’
Alt:
Combat tourism.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:41:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860949
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
captain_spalding said:
A lot depends on how the peace operates.
If, for example, the Allies had insisted on occupying Germany and Japan forever, then peace would never have been achieved.
As the countries economies recovered, and their governments took shape and began directing as much of their own affairs as the occupiers permitted, then the people would have eventually aspired to be entirely independent of the occupiers. A ‘resistance’ would undoubtedly have arisen, and the tribulations oft he past (real, aggrandised, and fictional) would have been kept alive and used to fuel that resistance and push to remove the occupiers, using methods which would surely have included guerilla/terrorist actions against them
I can’t imagine the Russians ever letting Ukraine function as a ‘non-occupied’ territory, and their occupation of that land (because that’s what it’ll be) will be what keeps the conflict alive.
Welcome to Vietnam on your own doorstep , Russia. ‘Ukraine’ will be the most feared word among Russian troops when it comes to postings.
One thing Ukraine has is weapons, missiles and ammo coming in across from the east on an ongoing basis.
cough West /cough
And east. Ukrainians are stripping the defeated Russian units of anything they can use, which includes heavy equipment, vehicles and artillery as well as small arms and ammo.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:43:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860950
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Translated: Ukrainian troops ridicule Russians’ unprofessionalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxEhhKEYq0
Date: 15/03/2022 19:47:03
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1860951
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Translated: Ukrainian troops ridicule Russians’ unprofessionalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxEhhKEYq0
Awfully nice of the Russians to give all that gear to their enemy. It seems like that they don’t quite have the rules of combat sorted out very well though.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:47:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860952
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Translated: Ukrainian troops ridicule Russians’ unprofessionalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxEhhKEYq0
Is sending in untrained military personal a war crime?
Civilians in war uniform without training, does not make them soldiers, only training does that.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:48:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860953
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Bubblecar said:
Translated: Ukrainian troops ridicule Russians’ unprofessionalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GxEhhKEYq0
Awfully nice of the Russians to give all that gear to their enemy. It seems like that they don’t quite have the rules of combat sorted out very well though.
Yes bombing hospitals is a dog act.
Date: 15/03/2022 19:54:07
From: dv
ID: 1860955
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
They can’t put us all in prison’: Bravest woman in Russia reveals why she had to protest against Putin’s war on state television and says she is ashamed at pumping out Kremlin propaganda for years as TV editor
A Russian woman ran onto live state TV news with a sign protesting Ukraine war
Marina Ovsyannikova is an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal
The brave editor held a sign that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda!’
She was arrested by police after her actions at the studios in Ostankino, Moscow
Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal (Channel One), held up a sign on the broadcaster’s main evening news show, Vremya, that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda! They’re lying to you here! Russians against war.’
Channel One was the first station to broadcast in the Russian Federation after the fall of the Soviet Union and has more than 250 million viewers across the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10612393/TV-editor-runs-Russian-state-TV-sign-saying-Stop-war-Dont-believe-propaganda.html

Meanwhile
Date: 15/03/2022 19:59:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860956
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
dv said:
They can’t put us all in prison’: Bravest woman in Russia reveals why she had to protest against Putin’s war on state television and says she is ashamed at pumping out Kremlin propaganda for years as TV editor
A Russian woman ran onto live state TV news with a sign protesting Ukraine war
Marina Ovsyannikova is an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal
The brave editor held a sign that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda!’
She was arrested by police after her actions at the studios in Ostankino, Moscow
Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal (Channel One), held up a sign on the broadcaster’s main evening news show, Vremya, that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda! They’re lying to you here! Russians against war.’
Channel One was the first station to broadcast in the Russian Federation after the fall of the Soviet Union and has more than 250 million viewers across the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10612393/TV-editor-runs-Russian-state-TV-sign-saying-Stop-war-Dont-believe-propaganda.html

Meanwhile
Looks like closing it down for a while will help him in the short term.
Date: 15/03/2022 20:02:43
From: sibeen
ID: 1860957
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:
dv said:
They can’t put us all in prison’: Bravest woman in Russia reveals why she had to protest against Putin’s war on state television and says she is ashamed at pumping out Kremlin propaganda for years as TV editor
A Russian woman ran onto live state TV news with a sign protesting Ukraine war
Marina Ovsyannikova is an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal
The brave editor held a sign that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda!’
She was arrested by police after her actions at the studios in Ostankino, Moscow
Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor on the Russian TV channel Pervyi Kanal (Channel One), held up a sign on the broadcaster’s main evening news show, Vremya, that said: ‘Stop the war! Don’t believe propaganda! They’re lying to you here! Russians against war.’
Channel One was the first station to broadcast in the Russian Federation after the fall of the Soviet Union and has more than 250 million viewers across the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10612393/TV-editor-runs-Russian-state-TV-sign-saying-Stop-war-Dont-believe-propaganda.html

Meanwhile
Looks like closing it down for a while will help him in the short term.
Are you fat shaming this individual?
Date: 15/03/2022 20:05:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860958
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:

Meanwhile
Looks like closing it down for a while will help him in the short term.
Are you fat shaming this individual?
health promotion is what it is, how people take it is up to them, but a bit of combat is also a good way to get some cardio’ going
Date: 15/03/2022 20:08:48
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860959
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:

Meanwhile
Looks like closing it down for a while will help him in the short term.
Are you fat shaming this individual?
Yes.
Date: 15/03/2022 20:10:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860960
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
sibeen said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Looks like closing it down for a while will help him in the short term.
Are you fat shaming this individual?
Yes.
Free Speech Man
Date: 15/03/2022 20:16:40
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1860962
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:

Meanwhile
Looks like closing it down for a while will help him in the short term.
Are you fat shaming this individual?
Sure, but only because he’s fat.
Date: 15/03/2022 20:17:34
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1860963
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
To which Zelensky might say “ nice to see you, how much ammunition did you bring with you?”.
LOL, yeah.
Someone might throw an errant grenade…
Date: 15/03/2022 20:18:07
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1860964
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine War Gives Egypt a Wheat Crisis Only China Can Solve
Beijing’s wheat stockpile is large enough to fill the shortfall — but is it willing to step in and help?
By David Fickling
15 March 2022, 06:00 GMT+11
Few non-combatant countries face a more direct hit to their living standards from Russia’s war in Ukraine than Egypt.
Cheap bread is as central to the legitimacy of the modern Egyptian state as it was to Rome in the days when the empire was fed with the grain exports of the Nile delta. Attempts to reform the subsidy regime that ensures flatbread loaves can be bought for as little as a third of a cent each led to riots in 1977, while the strain of rising food prices also helped spark the country’s Arab Spring protests in 2011.
That makes the current conflict a political risk in North Africa. Egypt is the world’s biggest wheat importer, and close to half of the flour it consumed in 2020 came from Russia and Ukraine. While the government says it has sufficient stockpiles to see it through to the end of the year, it could rapidly become an existential issue if the war drags on and disrupts planting.
That’s an opportunity for China — which has hitherto tried to look the other way as the conflict in Ukraine raged — to buy itself a little soft power by helping out a nation that’s seeking closer ties. Whether it does or not will determine the extent to which Beijing is prepared to wield carrots as well
That puts the disruptions caused by Russia’s war in Ukraine in some perspective. The loss of about 4 million tons of exports from Ukraine this marketing year forecast by the U.S. Department of Agriculture will largely be compensated by the same volume of additional exports from India and Australia, where ample rains have produced bumper crops. Egypt will only need an extra 100,000 tons if it cuts back on exports, as the government promised to do last week.
It would be extraordinarily easy for Beijing to fill this gap from its own burgeoning stockpiles — especially as a loosening of trade rules agreed on the eve of Moscow’s Ukraine invasion should allow more Russian grain into the country. Plugging that shortfall would use up the equivalent of about six hours of Chinese wheat consumption. The question is whether Beijing is prepared to countenance such a move.
Egypt itself carries little blame for the situation. Its own farming sector is still extraordinarily efficient, with yields that match those of Western Europe and far exceed ones found in the U.S., Russia and Ukraine. The problem is that the scant ribbon of agricultural land on the banks and delta of the Nile is insufficient to feed a population that has doubled since the mid-1980s to more than 100 million people. Subsidies once ate up as much as 15% of the national budget, but that’s declined to less than 5% these days and President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi last year promised further reforms to bring prices in line with production costs.
Faced with cooling relations in Washington, Sisi has made strenuous efforts to improve relations with Beijing in recent years. Egypt arrested and deported Uyghur Muslims in a crackdown beginning in 2017 and wrote to the United Nations in support of China’s policy in Xinjiang in 2019. Those actions may have been morally repugnant, but none of them were easy moves, politically. Sisi even turned up for the opening ceremony of the Beijing Winter Olympics last month, despite Egypt not fielding any athletes in the event.
With the strengthening of the NATO coalition since the start of the Ukraine war, Beijing should have strong interests in cultivating its relationship with Egypt, a growing authoritarian middle power that controls a vital trade route and a pivotal position in the Middle East.
For more than a century, the U.S. has used exports of its ample food surpluses as a crucial element of its diplomacy around the world. The times when that policy has failed have mostly been when Washington showed stinginess rather than largesse. Right now, though, China’s stockpiles mean it has the larger surplus, and the greater need to bolster its international alliances.
The most vital question for President Xi Jinping may be how he handles diplomacy between Kyiv, Moscow, and Washington — but how he treats Cairo will be crucial, too. The countries that will cement the strongest international ties in a century of growing food insecurity are those that are most prepared to share their bounty with their allies. China’s international standing now looks less steady than it has in years. If it wants to win more friends on the world stage, showing a little generosity would be a good way to start.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-14/china-could-fix-egypt-s-wheat-shortage-caused-by-russia-s-war-in-ukraine
Date: 15/03/2022 20:18:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860965
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
sibeen said:
Are you fat shaming this individual?
Yes.
Free Speech Man
Just kidding, I have no problem with fat people.
But some do appear to waste food.
Date: 15/03/2022 20:34:11
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860969
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
In breaking news, true or false is true ¡
“We are at a crossroads. Either we will agree at the current talks or the Russians will make a second attempt (at an offensive) and then there will be talks again,” adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said.
Date: 15/03/2022 20:43:36
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1860972
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
In breaking news, true or false is true ¡
“We are at a crossroads. Either we will agree at the current talks or the Russians will make a second attempt (at an offensive) and then there will be talks again,” adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said.
Something like that.
Date: 15/03/2022 20:51:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860973
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
SCIENCE said:
In breaking news, true or false is true ¡
“We are at a crossroads. Either we will agree at the current talks or the Russians will make a second attempt (at an offensive) and then there will be talks again,” adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said.
Something like that.

Date: 15/03/2022 20:52:38
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860974
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 15/03/2022 21:39:29
From: dv
ID: 1860989
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A leaked 12-page war memo, titled “For Media and Commentators,” told Russian media that it is “essential” to use more Carlson segments in their coverage because of his positions on the war in Ukraine
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/kremlin-memo-ukraine-war-russian-tucker-carlson-mother-jones-2022-3?r=
Date: 15/03/2022 21:46:53
From: party_pants
ID: 1860990
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
A leaked 12-page war memo, titled “For Media and Commentators,” told Russian media that it is “essential” to use more Carlson segments in their coverage because of his positions on the war in Ukraine
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/kremlin-memo-ukraine-war-russian-tucker-carlson-mother-jones-2022-3?r=
He is probably being paid by Russia to be pro-Russia. So of course they want to use the content they have paid for more widely.
Date: 15/03/2022 21:47:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860992
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
German supermarkets are reporting a run on sunflower oil, amid fears that the war in Ukraine could cause supply shortages. Ukraine provides over 50% of the world market in sunflower oil, with Germany one of its largest importers.
“In our stores we are currently noticing an increased demand especially for sunflower oil, as well as rapeseed oil and olive oil”, said a spokesperson for supermarket chain Aldi Süd.
A spokesperson for sister company Aldi Nord told broadsheet Die Welt that the chain would reserve the right to temporarily restrict sale of sunflower oil per customer.
A spokesperson for the Federal Association of the German Retail Grocery Trade urged people to refrain from hoarding and show “solidarity” to other shoppers, “as at the start of the corona crisis”.
Date: 15/03/2022 21:48:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1860993
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
A leaked 12-page war memo, titled “For Media and Commentators,” told Russian media that it is “essential” to use more Carlson segments in their coverage because of his positions on the war in Ukraine
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/kremlin-memo-ukraine-war-russian-tucker-carlson-mother-jones-2022-3?r=
so this is all a play by the Republicans and Russians to draw CHINA into unwinnable conflict while local COVID-19 explodes and then they can take the Yangtze and Yellow for another century of humiliation hooray
Date: 15/03/2022 21:50:34
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1860995
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
‘It’s the right thing to do’: the 300,000 volunteer hackers coming together to fight Russia
Ukraine appealed for a global army of IT experts to help in the battle against Putin – and many answered the call. We speak to people on the digital frontline
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/volunteer-hackers-fight-russia
Date: 15/03/2022 22:37:26
From: dv
ID: 1861002
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
A leaked 12-page war memo, titled “For Media and Commentators,” told Russian media that it is “essential” to use more Carlson segments in their coverage because of his positions on the war in Ukraine
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/kremlin-memo-ukraine-war-russian-tucker-carlson-mother-jones-2022-3?r=
so this is all a play by the Republicans and Russians to draw CHINA into unwinnable conflict while local COVID-19 explodes and then they can take the Yangtze and Yellow for another century of humiliation hooray

I wonder why they drop the л from his name
Date: 15/03/2022 22:42:35
From: dv
ID: 1861004
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Ukraine War Gives Egypt a Wheat Crisis Only China Can Solve
Beijing’s wheat stockpile is large enough to fill the shortfall — but is it willing to step in and help?
By David Fickling
15 March 2022, 06:00 GMT+11
Few non-combatant countries face a more direct hit to their living standards from Russia’s war in Ukraine than Egypt.
Cheap bread is as central to the legitimacy of the modern Egyptian state as it was to Rome in the days when the empire was fed with the grain exports of the Nile delta. Attempts to reform the subsidy regime that ensures flatbread loaves can be bought for as little as a third of a cent each led to riots in 1977, while the strain of rising food prices also helped spark the country’s Arab Spring protests in 2011.
That makes the current conflict a political risk in North Africa. Egypt is the world’s biggest wheat importer, and close to half of the flour it consumed in 2020 came from Russia and Ukraine. While the government says it has sufficient stockpiles to see it through to the end of the year, it could rapidly become an existential issue if the war drags on and disrupts planting.
That’s an opportunity for China — which has hitherto tried to look the other way as the conflict in Ukraine raged — to buy itself a little soft power by helping out a nation that’s seeking closer ties. Whether it does or not will determine the extent to which Beijing is prepared to wield carrots as well
That puts the disruptions caused by Russia’s war in Ukraine in some perspective. The loss of about 4 million tons of exports from Ukraine this marketing year forecast by the U.S. Department of Agriculture will largely be compensated by the same volume of additional exports from India and Australia, where ample rains have produced bumper crops. Egypt will only need an extra 100,000 tons if it cuts back on exports, as the government promised to do last week.
It would be extraordinarily easy for Beijing to fill this gap from its own burgeoning stockpiles — especially as a loosening of trade rules agreed on the eve of Moscow’s Ukraine invasion should allow more Russian grain into the country. Plugging that shortfall would use up the equivalent of about six hours of Chinese wheat consumption. The question is whether Beijing is prepared to countenance such a move.
Egypt itself carries little blame for the situation. Its own farming sector is still extraordinarily efficient, with yields that match those of Western Europe and far exceed ones found in the U.S., Russia and Ukraine. The problem is that the scant ribbon of agricultural land on the banks and delta of the Nile is insufficient to feed a population that has doubled since the mid-1980s to more than 100 million people. Subsidies once ate up as much as 15% of the national budget, but that’s declined to less than 5% these days and President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi last year promised further reforms to bring prices in line with production costs.
Faced with cooling relations in Washington, Sisi has made strenuous efforts to improve relations with Beijing in recent years. Egypt arrested and deported Uyghur Muslims in a crackdown beginning in 2017 and wrote to the United Nations in support of China’s policy in Xinjiang in 2019. Those actions may have been morally repugnant, but none of them were easy moves, politically. Sisi even turned up for the opening ceremony of the Beijing Winter Olympics last month, despite Egypt not fielding any athletes in the event.
With the strengthening of the NATO coalition since the start of the Ukraine war, Beijing should have strong interests in cultivating its relationship with Egypt, a growing authoritarian middle power that controls a vital trade route and a pivotal position in the Middle East.
For more than a century, the U.S. has used exports of its ample food surpluses as a crucial element of its diplomacy around the world. The times when that policy has failed have mostly been when Washington showed stinginess rather than largesse. Right now, though, China’s stockpiles mean it has the larger surplus, and the greater need to bolster its international alliances.
The most vital question for President Xi Jinping may be how he handles diplomacy between Kyiv, Moscow, and Washington — but how he treats Cairo will be crucial, too. The countries that will cement the strongest international ties in a century of growing food insecurity are those that are most prepared to share their bounty with their allies. China’s international standing now looks less steady than it has in years. If it wants to win more friends on the world stage, showing a little generosity would be a good way to start.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-14/china-could-fix-egypt-s-wheat-shortage-caused-by-russia-s-war-in-ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEQXUVqoyg
Egypt plans to green its desert
Date: 15/03/2022 22:53:42
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1861008
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Ukraine War Gives Egypt a Wheat Crisis Only China Can Solve
Beijing’s wheat stockpile is large enough to fill the shortfall — but is it willing to step in and help?
By David Fickling
15 March 2022, 06:00 GMT+11
Few non-combatant countries face a more direct hit to their living standards from Russia’s war in Ukraine than Egypt.
Cheap bread is as central to the legitimacy of the modern Egyptian state as it was to Rome in the days when the empire was fed with the grain exports of the Nile delta. Attempts to reform the subsidy regime that ensures flatbread loaves can be bought for as little as a third of a cent each led to riots in 1977, while the strain of rising food prices also helped spark the country’s Arab Spring protests in 2011.
That makes the current conflict a political risk in North Africa. Egypt is the world’s biggest wheat importer, and close to half of the flour it consumed in 2020 came from Russia and Ukraine. While the government says it has sufficient stockpiles to see it through to the end of the year, it could rapidly become an existential issue if the war drags on and disrupts planting.
That’s an opportunity for China — which has hitherto tried to look the other way as the conflict in Ukraine raged — to buy itself a little soft power by helping out a nation that’s seeking closer ties. Whether it does or not will determine the extent to which Beijing is prepared to wield carrots as well
That puts the disruptions caused by Russia’s war in Ukraine in some perspective. The loss of about 4 million tons of exports from Ukraine this marketing year forecast by the U.S. Department of Agriculture will largely be compensated by the same volume of additional exports from India and Australia, where ample rains have produced bumper crops. Egypt will only need an extra 100,000 tons if it cuts back on exports, as the government promised to do last week.
It would be extraordinarily easy for Beijing to fill this gap from its own burgeoning stockpiles — especially as a loosening of trade rules agreed on the eve of Moscow’s Ukraine invasion should allow more Russian grain into the country. Plugging that shortfall would use up the equivalent of about six hours of Chinese wheat consumption. The question is whether Beijing is prepared to countenance such a move.
Egypt itself carries little blame for the situation. Its own farming sector is still extraordinarily efficient, with yields that match those of Western Europe and far exceed ones found in the U.S., Russia and Ukraine. The problem is that the scant ribbon of agricultural land on the banks and delta of the Nile is insufficient to feed a population that has doubled since the mid-1980s to more than 100 million people. Subsidies once ate up as much as 15% of the national budget, but that’s declined to less than 5% these days and President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi last year promised further reforms to bring prices in line with production costs.
Faced with cooling relations in Washington, Sisi has made strenuous efforts to improve relations with Beijing in recent years. Egypt arrested and deported Uyghur Muslims in a crackdown beginning in 2017 and wrote to the United Nations in support of China’s policy in Xinjiang in 2019. Those actions may have been morally repugnant, but none of them were easy moves, politically. Sisi even turned up for the opening ceremony of the Beijing Winter Olympics last month, despite Egypt not fielding any athletes in the event.
With the strengthening of the NATO coalition since the start of the Ukraine war, Beijing should have strong interests in cultivating its relationship with Egypt, a growing authoritarian middle power that controls a vital trade route and a pivotal position in the Middle East.
For more than a century, the U.S. has used exports of its ample food surpluses as a crucial element of its diplomacy around the world. The times when that policy has failed have mostly been when Washington showed stinginess rather than largesse. Right now, though, China’s stockpiles mean it has the larger surplus, and the greater need to bolster its international alliances.
The most vital question for President Xi Jinping may be how he handles diplomacy between Kyiv, Moscow, and Washington — but how he treats Cairo will be crucial, too. The countries that will cement the strongest international ties in a century of growing food insecurity are those that are most prepared to share their bounty with their allies. China’s international standing now looks less steady than it has in years. If it wants to win more friends on the world stage, showing a little generosity would be a good way to start.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-14/china-could-fix-egypt-s-wheat-shortage-caused-by-russia-s-war-in-ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEQXUVqoyg
Egypt plans to green its desert
Would be more feasible and much cheaper to control their population. (But you can’t do that to people it would be immoral).
Date: 15/03/2022 23:17:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861018
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Ukraine War Gives Egypt a Wheat Crisis Only China Can Solve
Beijing’s wheat stockpile is large enough to fill the shortfall — but is it willing to step in and help?
By David Fickling
15 March 2022, 06:00 GMT+11
Few non-combatant countries face a more direct hit to their living standards from Russia’s war in Ukraine than Egypt.
Cheap bread is as central to the legitimacy of the modern Egyptian state as it was to Rome in the days when the empire was fed with the grain exports of the Nile delta. Attempts to reform the subsidy regime that ensures flatbread loaves can be bought for as little as a third of a cent each led to riots in 1977, while the strain of rising food prices also helped spark the country’s Arab Spring protests in 2011.
That makes the current conflict a political risk in North Africa. Egypt is the world’s biggest wheat importer, and close to half of the flour it consumed in 2020 came from Russia and Ukraine. While the government says it has sufficient stockpiles to see it through to the end of the year, it could rapidly become an existential issue if the war drags on and disrupts planting.
That’s an opportunity for China — which has hitherto tried to look the other way as the conflict in Ukraine raged — to buy itself a little soft power by helping out a nation that’s seeking closer ties. Whether it does or not will determine the extent to which Beijing is prepared to wield carrots as well
That puts the disruptions caused by Russia’s war in Ukraine in some perspective. The loss of about 4 million tons of exports from Ukraine this marketing year forecast by the U.S. Department of Agriculture will largely be compensated by the same volume of additional exports from India and Australia, where ample rains have produced bumper crops. Egypt will only need an extra 100,000 tons if it cuts back on exports, as the government promised to do last week.
It would be extraordinarily easy for Beijing to fill this gap from its own burgeoning stockpiles — especially as a loosening of trade rules agreed on the eve of Moscow’s Ukraine invasion should allow more Russian grain into the country. Plugging that shortfall would use up the equivalent of about six hours of Chinese wheat consumption. The question is whether Beijing is prepared to countenance such a move.
Egypt itself carries little blame for the situation. Its own farming sector is still extraordinarily efficient, with yields that match those of Western Europe and far exceed ones found in the U.S., Russia and Ukraine. The problem is that the scant ribbon of agricultural land on the banks and delta of the Nile is insufficient to feed a population that has doubled since the mid-1980s to more than 100 million people. Subsidies once ate up as much as 15% of the national budget, but that’s declined to less than 5% these days and President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi last year promised further reforms to bring prices in line with production costs.
Faced with cooling relations in Washington, Sisi has made strenuous efforts to improve relations with Beijing in recent years. Egypt arrested and deported Uyghur Muslims in a crackdown beginning in 2017 and wrote to the United Nations in support of China’s policy in Xinjiang in 2019. Those actions may have been morally repugnant, but none of them were easy moves, politically. Sisi even turned up for the opening ceremony of the Beijing Winter Olympics last month, despite Egypt not fielding any athletes in the event.
With the strengthening of the NATO coalition since the start of the Ukraine war, Beijing should have strong interests in cultivating its relationship with Egypt, a growing authoritarian middle power that controls a vital trade route and a pivotal position in the Middle East.
For more than a century, the U.S. has used exports of its ample food surpluses as a crucial element of its diplomacy around the world. The times when that policy has failed have mostly been when Washington showed stinginess rather than largesse. Right now, though, China’s stockpiles mean it has the larger surplus, and the greater need to bolster its international alliances.
The most vital question for President Xi Jinping may be how he handles diplomacy between Kyiv, Moscow, and Washington — but how he treats Cairo will be crucial, too. The countries that will cement the strongest international ties in a century of growing food insecurity are those that are most prepared to share their bounty with their allies. China’s international standing now looks less steady than it has in years. If it wants to win more friends on the world stage, showing a little generosity would be a good way to start.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-14/china-could-fix-egypt-s-wheat-shortage-caused-by-russia-s-war-in-ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEQXUVqoyg
Egypt plans to green its desert
Would be more feasible and much cheaper to control their population. (But you can’t do that to people it would be immoral).
what happens to the old delta
Date: 15/03/2022 23:27:29
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1861023
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
PermeateFree said:
dv said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEQXUVqoyg
Egypt plans to green its desert
Would be more feasible and much cheaper to control their population. (But you can’t do that to people it would be immoral).
what happens to the old delta
What normally happens to old deltas?
Date: 15/03/2022 23:29:11
From: sibeen
ID: 1861024
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
SCIENCE said:
PermeateFree said:
Would be more feasible and much cheaper to control their population. (But you can’t do that to people it would be immoral).
what happens to the old delta
What normally happens to old deltas?
The end up as judges on Australian Idol?
Date: 16/03/2022 00:01:02
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861039
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Interesting video of a Ukrainian mortar unit in action, they appear to be using a consumer drone for recon.
“We are lucky they are so fucking stupid”.
https://youtu.be/QwIknv0eMQA
Date: 16/03/2022 00:27:44
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861058
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
While Russian soldiers are starving and breaking into Ukrainian’s homes begging for bread, Prigozhin’s “not for sale” military food rations have flooded Russia’s ebay-like sites at $3 a can. Corruption is destroying Russia.

Date: 16/03/2022 00:28:21
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861059
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1503500529305112576
Dark Orange said:
While Russian soldiers are starving and breaking into Ukrainian’s homes begging for bread, Prigozhin’s “not for sale” military food rations have flooded Russia’s ebay-like sites at $3 a can. Corruption is destroying Russia.

Date: 16/03/2022 00:52:06
From: dv
ID: 1861061
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelensky to meet EU leaders: Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, Slovenia’s Janez Janša and the Czech Republic’s Petr Fiala are heading to Kyiv from Poland to meet Zelensky and confirm the EU’s “unequivocal support” and “present a broad package of support.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-15-22/h_cba7fe20200bbd64f6841feea8db4225
Date: 16/03/2022 01:01:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861062
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 16/03/2022 01:10:50
From: dv
ID: 1861063
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
SCIENCE said:
PermeateFree said:
Would be more feasible and much cheaper to control their population. (But you can’t do that to people it would be immoral).
what happens to the old delta
What normally happens to old deltas?
Seems to me that a lot of Egypt’s arable land is covered in cities and it would be better for them to move into the deserts so they can tear up the concrete and asphalt to grow stuff on it…
Date: 16/03/2022 04:07:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861071
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 16/03/2022 08:24:06
From: Ian
ID: 1861085
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
a lot of Egypt’s arable land is covered in cities
—
Arable land is land what is actually tilled, by Arabs.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:29:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1861088
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ian said:
a lot of Egypt’s arable land is covered in cities
—
Arable land is land what is actually tilled, by Arabs.
This be true indeed.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:34:37
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861091
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Looks like Zelenskiy has decided that being invaded by Russia is too much fun to swap for long-term security.
Many of his troops will be fuming that he’s apparently decided to kiss Putin’s feet:
Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy has acknowledged that Ukraine will not become a Nato member, in a significant concession on a day when Kyiv was pounded by Russian shells and missiles and the invading force tightened its grip on the capital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/kyiv-facing-dangerous-moment-amid-signs-of-russias-tightening-grip
Date: 16/03/2022 08:38:20
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1861093
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ian said:
a lot of Egypt’s arable land is covered in cities
—
Arable land is land what is actually tilled, by Arabs.
Ah, that explains Saudi Arabia having more than NZ.
That really surprised me.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:47:08
From: Ian
ID: 1861099
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ian said:
a lot of Egypt’s arable land is covered in cities
—
Arable land is land what is actually tilled, by Arabs.
And an Arab can live on one grain of rice per year..
Date: 16/03/2022 08:47:14
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861100
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
There are reports that the Prime Ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic are now all in Kyiv.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:48:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861101
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ian said:
Ian said:
a lot of Egypt’s arable land is covered in cities
—
Arable land is land what is actually tilled, by Arabs.
And an Arab can live on one grain of rice per year..
Admittedly, it’s a VERY BIG grain…
Date: 16/03/2022 08:50:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861105
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
There are reports that the Prime Ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic are now all in Kyiv.
They probably feel more-or-less safe now that Ukraine is caving in to Russia’s demands.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:53:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861107
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Zelenskiy has decided that being invaded by Russia is too much fun to swap for long-term security.
Many of his troops will be fuming that he’s apparently decided to kiss Putin’s feet:
Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy has acknowledged that Ukraine will not become a Nato member, in a significant concession on a day when Kyiv was pounded by Russian shells and missiles and the invading force tightened its grip on the capital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/kyiv-facing-dangerous-moment-amid-signs-of-russias-tightening-grip
I suggest that that promise will hold sway for as long as Putin is in the chair.
After that, especially if a more moderate Russian leader comes along, well…
Promises mean nothing to Russia. Didn’t Russia promise to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine handed back their nuclear weapons?
Date: 16/03/2022 08:53:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 1861108
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
There are reports that the Prime Ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic are now all in Kyiv.
Don’t tell Poo Tin or he’ll get them all with the one stone throw.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:54:57
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861109
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Zelenskiy has decided that being invaded by Russia is too much fun to swap for long-term security.
Many of his troops will be fuming that he’s apparently decided to kiss Putin’s feet:
Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy has acknowledged that Ukraine will not become a Nato member, in a significant concession on a day when Kyiv was pounded by Russian shells and missiles and the invading force tightened its grip on the capital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/kyiv-facing-dangerous-moment-amid-signs-of-russias-tightening-grip
I suggest that that promise will hold sway for as long as Putin is in the chair.
After that, especially if a more moderate Russian leader comes along, well…
Promises mean nothing to Russia. Didn’t Russia promise to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine handed back their nuclear weapons?
He said two months back that he wouldn’t invade.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:55:06
From: Michael V
ID: 1861110
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Zelenskiy has decided that being invaded by Russia is too much fun to swap for long-term security.
Many of his troops will be fuming that he’s apparently decided to kiss Putin’s feet:
Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy has acknowledged that Ukraine will not become a Nato member, in a significant concession on a day when Kyiv was pounded by Russian shells and missiles and the invading force tightened its grip on the capital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/kyiv-facing-dangerous-moment-amid-signs-of-russias-tightening-grip
I suggest that that promise will hold sway for as long as Putin is in the chair.
After that, especially if a more moderate Russian leader comes along, well…
Promises mean nothing to Russia. Didn’t Russia promise to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine handed back their nuclear weapons?
Yes.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:55:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861111
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Zelenskiy has decided that being invaded by Russia is too much fun to swap for long-term security.
Many of his troops will be fuming that he’s apparently decided to kiss Putin’s feet:
Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy has acknowledged that Ukraine will not become a Nato member, in a significant concession on a day when Kyiv was pounded by Russian shells and missiles and the invading force tightened its grip on the capital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/kyiv-facing-dangerous-moment-amid-signs-of-russias-tightening-grip
I suggest that that promise will hold sway for as long as Putin is in the chair.
After that, especially if a more moderate Russian leader comes along, well…
Promises mean nothing to Russia. Didn’t Russia promise to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine handed back their nuclear weapons?
Promises do indeed mean nothing to Russia, which is why Ukraine needs to be under the NATO umbrella.
Now that Zelenskiy has thrown that away, they might as well surrender.
Date: 16/03/2022 08:56:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861112
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Zelenskiy has decided that being invaded by Russia is too much fun to swap for long-term security.
Many of his troops will be fuming that he’s apparently decided to kiss Putin’s feet:
Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy has acknowledged that Ukraine will not become a Nato member, in a significant concession on a day when Kyiv was pounded by Russian shells and missiles and the invading force tightened its grip on the capital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/kyiv-facing-dangerous-moment-amid-signs-of-russias-tightening-grip
I suggest that that promise will hold sway for as long as Putin is in the chair.
After that, especially if a more moderate Russian leader comes along, well…
Promises mean nothing to Russia. Didn’t Russia promise to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine handed back their nuclear weapons?
He said two months back that he wouldn’t invade.
So, if Ukraine was to go back on its promise, Russia could hardly feel aggrieved about it.
Date: 16/03/2022 09:02:49
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861113
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
I suggest that that promise will hold sway for as long as Putin is in the chair.
After that, especially if a more moderate Russian leader comes along, well…
Promises mean nothing to Russia. Didn’t Russia promise to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine handed back their nuclear weapons?
He said two months back that he wouldn’t invade.
So, if Ukraine was to go back on its promise, Russia could hardly feel aggrieved about it.
Nah. This presumably means that Zelenskiy accepts that Russia will continually demand Ukrainian territory as long as they leave open a NATO option, which will be closed via some kind of Ukraine-Russia treaty. NATO will not accept membership anyway while there are disputed territories.
I suspect the Ukrainian government is now telling Putin: “you don’t need a regime change and puppet government – just pull our strings.”
Date: 16/03/2022 09:05:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1861114
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
I suggest that that promise will hold sway for as long as Putin is in the chair.
After that, especially if a more moderate Russian leader comes along, well…
Promises mean nothing to Russia. Didn’t Russia promise to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine handed back their nuclear weapons?
He said two months back that he wouldn’t invade.
So, if Ukraine was to go back on its promise, Russia could hardly feel aggrieved about it.
PooTin has only one onjective. To crush and destroy any defiance from Uktaine. He doesn’t even care if he kills all Ukranians. According to Pootin; It isn’t even a country don’t you see? It shoyuldn’t exist separate to the mother country. The Z on all the tanks means kill Zelansky. The special operation Z is to destroy Zelansky.
Date: 16/03/2022 09:14:15
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861116
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin Is Finding War Is Hell, and Expensive
A decade-long effort to increase professionalism seems to have failed, but Russian troops are adapting in Ukraine and still have brute force on their side.
ByJames Stavridis
15 March 2022, 18:00 GMT+11
One question I get repeatedly these days: What is wrong with the Russian military? Many in the West had a mistaken belief that the Russian war machine was a rough match for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and they are surprised at how much trouble the massive force is having subduing a much smaller and less-equipped neighbor, Ukraine.
During my time as NATO’s military commander, I spent time with the Russian military and the chief of its general staff at the time, General Nikolai Makarov. A congenial figure, Makarov told me about Russian efforts to modernize his forces, starting with professionalizing them and weaning the nation from a brutal conscript system. There were plans to improve offensive cyber capabilities, precision-guided weaponry and unmanned vehicles.
He seemed confident of progress, but from all I have seen in Ukraine, the decade-long effort has not been successful, and draftees abound. There is little evidence of the hardware improvements, either. The Russians present not as a sophisticated 21st-century army, but rather a blunt force in the style of World War II’s militaries.
Unlike in Syria, where Russian forces have been effective but are not fighting pitched battles against a serious standing military, today’s battles in Ukraine are showing the fissures in the Russian approach to training, equipping and organizing. Three key problems are worth highlighting, and none can be solved immediately, meaning they will continue to hobble operations in Ukraine.
The first is obvious: logistical failures. In the military, we often say that amateurs study strategy but professionals study logistics. Getting ammunition, fuel, food, heat, electricity and communications equipment to the troops is crucial. In particular, getting fuel forward has proven very challenging for the Russians, which is logistics 101 for a Western force.
The image of the 40-mile stalled tank and transport convoy outside of Kyiv is a good example of incompetence — any modern Western military would have developed the detailed plans to ensure that such a massive offensive weapon wouldn’t sit on highly exposed terrain for days. Supplying relatively small units in Syria is easy compared to providing sustenance for a 200,000-troop force.
A second challenge is perhaps less obvious but more insidious. A significant number of the troops invading Ukraine are conscripts or reservists. They are not a professional, volunteer force led by career senior enlisted cadres. There have been anecdotal examples of Russian soldiers who are literally unaware of the importance of their mission — some surprised to discover they are not on an exercise in Russia when captured by Ukrainians.
The third key misstep is the bad generalship on vivid display. The Russian plan encompassed attacking Ukraine from six different vectors, dividing their forces significantly. A battle plan that spreads forces over six axes is inherently flawed. This no doubt can be attributed to flawed assumptions and intelligence: The Russian generals must have expected the Ukrainians to welcome them with flowers and vodka, not bullets and Molotov cocktails.
Russian killed-in-action numbers are stunning. In 20 years of hard fighting in Afghanistan, the U.S. suffered roughly 2,000 troops killed in combat. The Russians, in just over two weeks, have lost at least 4,000 and possibly twice that. This will haunt President Vladimir Putin even as he tries (but ultimately fails) to keep those numbers from his public.
In addition to blood, Russia is bleeding treasure. War is an expensive proposition, especially when your sources of hard currency are drying up due to Western sanctions. And much of the war chest that Putin counted on — more than $600 billion in reserves — has been locked down in Western institutions under sanctions.
Russia is reportedly sending its jets on 200 sorties a day, using a tremendous amount of fuel and spare parts that will be increasingly hard to come by given sanctions. Ukraine claims to have shot down more than 50 aircraft at $20 million to $50 million a pop. One recent estimate put the cost of the war at billions of dollars per day, and at that rate Putin will run out of money even before he runs out of public support.
For the Russians on the ground in Ukraine, the worst is still ahead. For Putin to subdue Kyiv, a city of nearly four million, he will have to throw a significant level of combat power into the fight. It took the U.S. First Marine Division — the most elite combat troops in the world — nearly two months to conquer Fallujah, an Iraqi city about a tenth the size of Kyiv.
The locals know every corner and intersection of their city, are increasingly well armed by the West, and are motivated to fight with their families behind them or evacuated to Poland. It promises to be a long and bloody battle.
Here is the caveat: Despite the failures of the Russian military thus far, it is adapting and learning as the battle unfolds. The Russians have held cyberattack technology in reserve for the moment, probably to preserve certain capabilities to use against the West as sanctions increasingly kick in.
Moscow’s information warfare and decapitation strategies appear to be sharpening. At least two Ukrainian mayors have been kidnapped. Video of one being hauled off with a bag over his head was surely meant as an example to others. And the Russians have mass and sheer scale on their side, with more reserves upon which they can draw. This could be as many as several hundred thousand troops, depending on how much Putin is willing to move from elsewhere.
As of now, time is on the Russians’ side if they choose to simply grind down the Ukrainians and reduce the cities to rubble. But over a longer period, dissatisfaction at home, the coming of the spring mud and military failures will compound for Putin.
I do not detect an ounce of quit in the Ukrainians, particularly in their Churchillian leader, Volodymyr Zelenskiy. He will address the U.S. congress on Wednesday, and one of the topics upon which he will certainly touch are the tactical failures of the Russian military, coupled with fervent requests for more weapons and ammunition.
Barring a peace agreement, this war is likely to be a long haul. I suspect we will learn more about both the tactical failures and underlying weaknesses of the Russian military before it is over.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-15/ukraine-invasion-russia-s-military-is-adapting-after-early-failures
Date: 16/03/2022 09:17:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861117
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
>I do not detect an ounce of quit in the Ukrainians, particularly in their Churchillian leader, Volodymyr Zelenskiy.
Um, time to update your news feed :)
And remind yourself that Zelenskiy is a professional actor.
Date: 16/03/2022 09:18:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861118
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
If a ceasefire is now brokered, Putin will be able to say: “The reason we stalled our land attacks was to give the Ukrainians confidence that they can defend themselves without NATO. We have achieved what we set out to do.”
Date: 16/03/2022 09:18:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861119
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
He said two months back that he wouldn’t invade.
So, if Ukraine was to go back on its promise, Russia could hardly feel aggrieved about it.
Nah. This presumably means that Zelenskiy accepts that Russia will continually demand Ukrainian territory as long as they leave open a NATO option, which will be closed via some kind of Ukraine-Russia treaty. NATO will not accept membership anyway while there are disputed territories.
I suspect the Ukrainian government is now telling Putin: “you don’t need a regime change and puppet government – just pull our strings.”
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
Date: 16/03/2022 09:21:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861120
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
So, if Ukraine was to go back on its promise, Russia could hardly feel aggrieved about it.
Nah. This presumably means that Zelenskiy accepts that Russia will continually demand Ukrainian territory as long as they leave open a NATO option, which will be closed via some kind of Ukraine-Russia treaty. NATO will not accept membership anyway while there are disputed territories.
I suspect the Ukrainian government is now telling Putin: “you don’t need a regime change and puppet government – just pull our strings.”
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
OTOH, Ukrainians will be saying: if he was going to cave in all along, why not do it earlier, and save all those wasted Ukrainian lives?
Date: 16/03/2022 09:23:23
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861121
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
So, if Ukraine was to go back on its promise, Russia could hardly feel aggrieved about it.
Nah. This presumably means that Zelenskiy accepts that Russia will continually demand Ukrainian territory as long as they leave open a NATO option, which will be closed via some kind of Ukraine-Russia treaty. NATO will not accept membership anyway while there are disputed territories.
I suspect the Ukrainian government is now telling Putin: “you don’t need a regime change and puppet government – just pull our strings.”
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
Indeed.
Date: 16/03/2022 09:35:04
From: sibeen
ID: 1861124
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Nah. This presumably means that Zelenskiy accepts that Russia will continually demand Ukrainian territory as long as they leave open a NATO option, which will be closed via some kind of Ukraine-Russia treaty. NATO will not accept membership anyway while there are disputed territories.
I suspect the Ukrainian government is now telling Putin: “you don’t need a regime change and puppet government – just pull our strings.”
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
Indeed.
“It is clear that Ukraine is not a member of Nato; we understand this,” the Ukrainian president said. “For years we heard about the apparently open door, but have already also heard that we will not enter there, and these are truths and must be acknowledged.”
Sounds to me as if he’s just being a realist.
Date: 16/03/2022 09:42:49
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861126
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
Indeed.
“It is clear that Ukraine is not a member of Nato; we understand this,” the Ukrainian president said. “For years we heard about the apparently open door, but have already also heard that we will not enter there, and these are truths and must be acknowledged.”
Sounds to me as if he’s just being a realist.
Pragmatism worked for the Finns.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:04:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861127
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
Indeed.
“It is clear that Ukraine is not a member of Nato; we understand this,” the Ukrainian president said. “For years we heard about the apparently open door, but have already also heard that we will not enter there, and these are truths and must be acknowledged.”
Sounds to me as if he’s just being a realist.
Why not “be a realist” as soon the Russian tanks rolled in, and spare all those Ukrainian lives?
Date: 16/03/2022 10:09:28
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861129
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Why not “be a realist” as soon the Russian tanks rolled in, and spare all those Ukrainian lives?
…I’m just asking the questions Ukrainians will be asking.
If the deal they hatch preserves this particular government without ensuring Ukrainian autonomy and security, many will be asking why they were fighting.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:16:55
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861131
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Dark Orange said:
Dark Orange said:
Bravery, or stupidity?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-business-moscow-d357f90e5a332e10abd8e2b7c7be67c7
The leaders of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia are traveling to Ukraine’s capital Tuesday on a European Union mission to show support for the country as Russia’s forces move closer to Kyiv.
“The aim of the visit is to express the European Union’s unequivocal support for Ukraine and its freedom and independence,” Czech Prime Minister Petr Fiala said in a tweet.
He will be joined by Slovak Prime Minister Janez Janša, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is Poland’s deputy prime minister for security and the leader of the conservative ruling party.
There are reports that the Prime Ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic are now all in Kyiv.
Don’t tell Poo Tin or he’ll get them all with the one stone throw.
I am pretty sure they want him to know. This is a big “Fuck you” to Putin – “Three weeks into your invasion and we can still waltz into the capital and have a meeting with the head of state”.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:19:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861134
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
roughbarked said:
Dark Orange said:
There are reports that the Prime Ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic are now all in Kyiv.
Don’t tell Poo Tin or he’ll get them all with the one stone throw.
I am pretty sure they want him to know. This is a big “Fuck you” to Putin – “Three weeks into your invasion and we can still waltz into the capital and have a meeting with the head of state”.
I don’t think Putin is so easily “big fucked”.
Remember he’s always denied that this is an invasion. If he gets enough concessions he’ll be able to claim victory.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:22:11
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861136
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Indeed.
“It is clear that Ukraine is not a member of Nato; we understand this,” the Ukrainian president said. “For years we heard about the apparently open door, but have already also heard that we will not enter there, and these are truths and must be acknowledged.”
Sounds to me as if he’s just being a realist.
Why not “be a realist” as soon the Russian tanks rolled in, and spare all those Ukrainian lives?
I think you are being an unrealist there. The only options at that point was for Ukraine to be assimilated into Russia, or fight. It is only in the last few days that the Russians have actually given them an option.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:22:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861137
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
roughbarked said:
Don’t tell Poo Tin or he’ll get them all with the one stone throw.
I am pretty sure they want him to know. This is a big “Fuck you” to Putin – “Three weeks into your invasion and we can still waltz into the capital and have a meeting with the head of state”.
I don’t think Putin is so easily “big fucked”.
Remember he’s always denied that this is an invasion. If he gets enough concessions he’ll be able to claim victory.
…then watch the Western sanctions rapidly dissolve as global capitalism gets back to “business as usual.”
Date: 16/03/2022 10:22:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861138
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Nah. This presumably means that Zelenskiy accepts that Russia will continually demand Ukrainian territory as long as they leave open a NATO option, which will be closed via some kind of Ukraine-Russia treaty. NATO will not accept membership anyway while there are disputed territories.
I suspect the Ukrainian government is now telling Putin: “you don’t need a regime change and puppet government – just pull our strings.”
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
OTOH, Ukrainians will be saying: if he was going to cave in all along, why not do it earlier, and save all those wasted Ukrainian lives?
False hopes, perhaps. Hope that the West would take the chance, and come to Ukraine’s direct aid. Hope that Putin would face more opposition at home from the Russian population and in his government than he has. Hope that the Russian forces might be either convincingly defeated, or persuaded to refuse to conduct the war the way they have.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:25:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861141
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
I understand your disappointment in him, and everyone wanted to see Ukraine stay independent and even join NATO if it wanted to.
Let’s face it, US/EU/NATO can’t come to Ukraine’s direct aid. The wider risk is just too great. If they could, the result could be a lot different.
And Zelenskiy has to think of his country. Does he really want to see the whole place reduced to rubble and corpses, side to side and end to end over the next few years? Principles and ideals are wonderful, but dead children are another thing.
Sure, that’s the kind of thinking Putin is counting on. But, if a total puppet government can be avoided, maybe Ukrainians can have a life that’s not total and abject subjugation, and keep looking for opportunities.
OTOH, Ukrainians will be saying: if he was going to cave in all along, why not do it earlier, and save all those wasted Ukrainian lives?
False hopes, perhaps. Hope that the West would take the chance, and come to Ukraine’s direct aid. Hope that Putin would face more opposition at home from the Russian population and in his government than he has. Hope that the Russian forces might be either convincingly defeated, or persuaded to refuse to conduct the war the way they have.
False hopes and many thousands of dead should mean the Zelenskiy government resigns in disgrace.
Many Ukrainians will be saying: “Maybe he should have accepted the ride, instead of wasting the ammo. And wasting the lives of our people.”
Date: 16/03/2022 10:27:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861143
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
OTOH, Ukrainians will be saying: if he was going to cave in all along, why not do it earlier, and save all those wasted Ukrainian lives?
False hopes, perhaps. Hope that the West would take the chance, and come to Ukraine’s direct aid. Hope that Putin would face more opposition at home from the Russian population and in his government than he has. Hope that the Russian forces might be either convincingly defeated, or persuaded to refuse to conduct the war the way they have.
False hopes and many thousands of dead should mean the Zelenskiy government resigns in disgrace.
Many Ukrainians will be saying: “Maybe he should have accepted the ride, instead of wasting the ammo. And wasting the lives of our people.”
Many Ukrainians might also ask themselves why they ever wanted to leave the ‘union’ with Russia, if their independence wasn’t worth any fight at all.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:28:07
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861145
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
“It is clear that Ukraine is not a member of Nato; we understand this,” the Ukrainian president said. “For years we heard about the apparently open door, but have already also heard that we will not enter there, and these are truths and must be acknowledged.”
Sounds to me as if he’s just being a realist.
Why not “be a realist” as soon the Russian tanks rolled in, and spare all those Ukrainian lives?
I think you are being an unrealist there. The only options at that point was for Ukraine to be assimilated into Russia, or fight. It is only in the last few days that the Russians have actually given them an option.
We don’t know that, and we don’t know what the final deal will be.
Maybe I’m being too pessimistic but I bet many Ukrainians are deeply unhappy with the NATO concession.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:29:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861147
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
False hopes, perhaps. Hope that the West would take the chance, and come to Ukraine’s direct aid. Hope that Putin would face more opposition at home from the Russian population and in his government than he has. Hope that the Russian forces might be either convincingly defeated, or persuaded to refuse to conduct the war the way they have.
False hopes and many thousands of dead should mean the Zelenskiy government resigns in disgrace.
Many Ukrainians will be saying: “Maybe he should have accepted the ride, instead of wasting the ammo. And wasting the lives of our people.”
Many Ukrainians might also ask themselves why they ever wanted to leave the ‘union’ with Russia, if their independence wasn’t worth any fight at all.
They haven’t secured their independence and will now be wondering if it’s possible under this government.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:29:21
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861148
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
While the Ukrainians are losing unarmed civilians to missiles and direct fire (A couple of disturbing videos overnight), the Russians are hemorrhaging soldiers and hardware. The longer the negotiations take, the better Ukraine’s bargaining position will be. Zelenskyy has the difficult choice now of determining if a better deal is worth the cost.
“Russia is redeploying forces from as far afield as its Eastern Military District, Pacific Fleet and Armenia. It is also increasingly seeking to exploit irregular sources such as Private Military Companies, Syrian and other mercenaries.” – UK defense attaché to the US embassy
Date: 16/03/2022 10:32:46
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1861150
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
Why not “be a realist” as soon the Russian tanks rolled in, and spare all those Ukrainian lives?
I think you are being an unrealist there. The only options at that point was for Ukraine to be assimilated into Russia, or fight. It is only in the last few days that the Russians have actually given them an option.
We don’t know that, and we don’t know what the final deal will be.
Maybe I’m being too pessimistic but I bet many Ukrainians are deeply unhappy with the NATO concession.
Yes, because the only two possible options are to give in with no fight at all, and give in to everything that Putin demands, or to continue the fight for years until one side or the other concedes total defeat.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:35:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861153
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
I think you are being an unrealist there. The only options at that point was for Ukraine to be assimilated into Russia, or fight. It is only in the last few days that the Russians have actually given them an option.
We don’t know that, and we don’t know what the final deal will be.
Maybe I’m being too pessimistic but I bet many Ukrainians are deeply unhappy with the NATO concession.
Yes, because the only two possible options are to give in with no fight at all, and give in to everything that Putin demands, or to continue the fight for years until one side or the other concedes total defeat.
Bear in mind that the Russians will be demanding more than they expect to get, but enough to ensure that they now basically control the fate of Ukraine.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:39:12
From: dv
ID: 1861156
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I wouldn’t be too disheartened. The statement costs him nothing, and given the occupation of Crimea it is a mere statement of fact: there’s no possibility of joining Nato while there are unresolved territorial disputes per Natos’s principles published in 1995. Unless he actually signs anything I would assume this announcement is merely tactical.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:41:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861158
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I wouldn’t be too disheartened. The statement costs him nothing, and given the occupation of Crimea it is a mere statement of fact: there’s no possibility of joining Nato while there are unresolved territorial disputes per Natos’s principles published in 1995. Unless he actually signs anything I would assume this announcement is merely tactical.
A tactic that will alienate many of those defending their country.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:46:10
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861159
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
False hopes and many thousands of dead should mean the Zelenskiy government resigns in disgrace.
Many Ukrainians will be saying: “Maybe he should have accepted the ride, instead of wasting the ammo. And wasting the lives of our people.”
Many Ukrainians might also ask themselves why they ever wanted to leave the ‘union’ with Russia, if their independence wasn’t worth any fight at all.
They haven’t secured their independence and will now be wondering if it’s possible under this government.
It certainly wasn’t possible under Yanukovych.
Date: 16/03/2022 10:58:11
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1861161
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Of course if Scotland leaves the union Glasgow could well find Boris Johnson’s tanks within a mile of the city after heavy fighting along the river Clyde.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:12:02
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861233
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Looks like Russia is expecting a surrender in all but name:
Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday at a press conference that “talks are now continuing on giving Ukraine neutral military status, in the context of security guarantees for all participants in this process”, as well as on “demilitarising Ukraine”, the Interfax news agency reported.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:13:29
From: Ian
ID: 1861236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Ian said:
Ian said:
a lot of Egypt’s arable land is covered in cities
—
Arable land is land what is actually tilled, by Arabs.
And an Arab can live on one grain of rice per year..
Admittedly, it’s a VERY BIG grain…
Ah, I am saddened..
Interesting Facts
Date: 16/03/2022 13:14:29
From: sibeen
ID: 1861237
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Russia is expecting a surrender in all but name:
Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday at a press conference that “talks are now continuing on giving Ukraine neutral military status, in the context of security guarantees for all participants in this process”, as well as on “demilitarising Ukraine”, the Interfax news agency reported.
Yeah, is this bloke Baghdad Bob?
Date: 16/03/2022 13:14:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1861238
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Russia is expecting a surrender in all but name:
Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday at a press conference that “talks are now continuing on giving Ukraine neutral military status, in the context of security guarantees for all participants in this process”, as well as on “demilitarising Ukraine”, the Interfax news agency reported.
The Ukrainians don’t really gain anything, the fighting stops and they have a wrecked nation, thousands dead, some sort of communist police state and without an ability to defend themselves this time.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:16:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Russia is expecting a surrender in all but name:
Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday at a press conference that “talks are now continuing on giving Ukraine neutral military status, in the context of security guarantees for all participants in this process”, as well as on “demilitarising Ukraine”, the Interfax news agency reported.
Yeah, is this bloke Baghdad Bob?
OTOH the Ukrainian government agrees that the talks are going well and that “there is room for compromise”.
Sounds like the Russians will let them retain a police force or suchlike, and that might be enough for Zelenskiy’s team.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:19:14
From: sibeen
ID: 1861240
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Russia is expecting a surrender in all but name:
Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday at a press conference that “talks are now continuing on giving Ukraine neutral military status, in the context of security guarantees for all participants in this process”, as well as on “demilitarising Ukraine”, the Interfax news agency reported.
Yeah, is this bloke Baghdad Bob?
OTOH the Ukrainian government agrees that the talks are going well and that “there is room for compromise”.
Sounds like the Russians will let them retain a police force or suchlike, and that might be enough for Zelenskiy’s team.
I suspect that you’re reading way too much into what was quite an innocuous comment.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:20:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861241
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Yeah, is this bloke Baghdad Bob?
OTOH the Ukrainian government agrees that the talks are going well and that “there is room for compromise”.
Sounds like the Russians will let them retain a police force or suchlike, and that might be enough for Zelenskiy’s team.
I suspect that you’re reading way too much into what was quite an innocuous comment.
?
“Demilitarising Ukraine” is not an innocuous comment.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:24:29
From: sibeen
ID: 1861243
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
OTOH the Ukrainian government agrees that the talks are going well and that “there is room for compromise”.
Sounds like the Russians will let them retain a police force or suchlike, and that might be enough for Zelenskiy’s team.
I suspect that you’re reading way too much into what was quite an innocuous comment.
?
“Demilitarising Ukraine” is not an innocuous comment.
I was talking about Zelenskiy’s comment.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:24:37
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1861244
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The French are invaluable in these types of negotiations, they will be able to word it so that even the side that has been absolutely thumped during the fighting can come out smelling of roses.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:25:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861245
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
I suspect that you’re reading way too much into what was quite an innocuous comment.
?
“Demilitarising Ukraine” is not an innocuous comment.
I was talking about Zelenskiy’s comment.
Zelenskiy is apparently pleased with how the negotiations are going.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:26:41
From: Cymek
ID: 1861246
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
OTOH the Ukrainian government agrees that the talks are going well and that “there is room for compromise”.
Sounds like the Russians will let them retain a police force or suchlike, and that might be enough for Zelenskiy’s team.
I suspect that you’re reading way too much into what was quite an innocuous comment.
?
“Demilitarising Ukraine” is not an innocuous comment.
10 days is the estimate on how long the Russians can continue fighting before they run out of equipment and soldiers
Ukraine gets supplied with weapons continuously and foreign non sanctioned soldiers seem more than willing to fight with them
Whose to say non identifiable NATO units couldn’t get involved on the down low.
Keep the sanctions up for what another 6 months and Russia could come out this severely weakened
Date: 16/03/2022 13:29:06
From: dv
ID: 1861247
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Yeah, is this bloke Baghdad Bob?
OTOH the Ukrainian government agrees that the talks are going well and that “there is room for compromise”.
Sounds like the Russians will let them retain a police force or suchlike, and that might be enough for Zelenskiy’s team.
I suspect that you’re reading way too much into what was quite an innocuous comment.
Yep. Basically nothing has been ceded at all. He made an accurate comment in a speech, something everyone already knew.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:30:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861248
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like Russia is expecting a surrender in all but name:
Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday at a press conference that “talks are now continuing on giving Ukraine neutral military status, in the context of security guarantees for all participants in this process”, as well as on “demilitarising Ukraine”, the Interfax news agency reported.
The Ukrainians don’t really gain anything, the fighting stops and they have a wrecked nation, thousands dead, some sort of communist police state and without an ability to defend themselves this time.
Ukraine is a lost cause, but let’s hope NATO can ensure the Russians reach no further:
Nato to begin planning for more troops on eastern flank
Nato is set to tell its military commanders on Wednesday to draw up plans for new ways to deter Russia following Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine, including more troops and missile defences in eastern Europe, officials and diplomats said.
Defence ministers will order the military advice at Nato headquarters, just over a week before allied leaders, including US President Joe Biden, gather in Brussels on 24 March, according to a report from Reuters.
Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said on Tuesday:
We need to reset our military posture for this new reality.
Ministers will start an important discussion on concrete measures to reinforce our security for the longer term, in all domains.”
While at least 10 of Nato’s biggest allies, including the United States, Britain and France, have deployed more troops, ships and warplanes to its eastern flank, and put more on stand-by, the alliance must still consider how to face up to a new security situation in Europe over the medium term.
Guardian Live
Date: 16/03/2022 13:32:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1861250
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Would people rather live in a police state were you can’t trust anyone and just disappear for looking like a subversive or die fighting.
Fighting back is harder and unless you have zero connections with others they can be used against you, let alone payback for killing enemy soldiers
Date: 16/03/2022 13:38:54
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1861251
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
You’d welcome death wouldn’t you if death could be the servant of your life, wouldn’t you.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:41:11
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861252
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
?
“Demilitarising Ukraine” is not an innocuous comment.
I was talking about Zelenskiy’s comment.
Zelenskiy is apparently pleased with how the negotiations are going.
He’s probably pleased they are negotiating.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:42:44
From: Cymek
ID: 1861253
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
You’d welcome death wouldn’t you if death could be the servant of your life, wouldn’t you.
What do you mean
Date: 16/03/2022 13:43:45
From: dv
ID: 1861254
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
But I guess we’ll find out in the coming weeks, I’ll keep on my pollyanna costume for now
Date: 16/03/2022 13:44:32
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861255
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
(Reuters) – Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address released early on Wednesday that the positions of Ukraine and Russia at peace talks were sounding more realistic.
“But time is still needed for the decisions to be in the interests of Ukraine,” he said
Date: 16/03/2022 13:46:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1861257
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
(Reuters) – Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address released early on Wednesday that the positions of Ukraine and Russia at peace talks were sounding more realistic.
“But time is still needed for the decisions to be in the interests of Ukraine,” he said
Perhaps Russia will lose (unlikely) by forced to make damage payments and compensation to the families of the dead and face war crimes
Date: 16/03/2022 13:46:54
From: Cymek
ID: 1861258
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
(Reuters) – Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video address released early on Wednesday that the positions of Ukraine and Russia at peace talks were sounding more realistic.
“But time is still needed for the decisions to be in the interests of Ukraine,” he said
Perhaps Russia will lose (unlikely) by forced to make damage payments and compensation to the families of the dead and face war crimes
Date: 16/03/2022 13:47:53
From: Michael V
ID: 1861259
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
But I guess we’ll find out in the coming weeks, I’ll keep on my pollyanna costume for now
Onya.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:49:50
From: dv
ID: 1861261
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Or maybe it’s a polynya costume
Date: 16/03/2022 13:51:42
From: dv
ID: 1861264
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
You’d welcome death wouldn’t you if death could be the servant of your life, wouldn’t you.
Deep
Date: 16/03/2022 13:52:43
From: Woodie
ID: 1861265
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
The French are invaluable in these types of negotiations, they will be able to word it so that even the side that has been absolutely thumped during the fighting can come out smelling of roses.
La vie en rose, hey what but.
Date: 16/03/2022 13:55:16
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861266
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
So… a couple of weeks ago, the Russians took Kherson Airbase and parked a whole pile of choppers there. A week ago, a lot of those choppers were destroyed by the Ukrainians.
So the Russians parked a whole pile of new choppers there. And a lot of them were destroyed. Again.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44780/ukraine-strikes-back-barrage-leaves-russian-occupied-kherson-airbase-in-flames

Date: 16/03/2022 14:02:25
From: dv
ID: 1861267
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
So… a couple of weeks ago, the Russians took Kherson Airbase and parked a whole pile of choppers there. A week ago, a lot of those choppers were destroyed by the Ukrainians.
So the Russians parked a whole pile of new choppers there. And a lot of them were destroyed. Again.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44780/ukraine-strikes-back-barrage-leaves-russian-occupied-kherson-airbase-in-flames

Well so much for slavic hospitality
Date: 16/03/2022 14:09:41
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861268
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Dark Orange said:
So… a couple of weeks ago, the Russians took Kherson Airbase and parked a whole pile of choppers there. A week ago, a lot of those choppers were destroyed by the Ukrainians.
So the Russians parked a whole pile of new choppers there. And a lot of them were destroyed. Again.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44780/ukraine-strikes-back-barrage-leaves-russian-occupied-kherson-airbase-in-flames

Well so much for slavic hospitality
saves on the maintenance and disposal costs hey
Date: 16/03/2022 14:10:24
From: Michael V
ID: 1861270
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“500 people held hostage in Mariupol hospital, Ukraine says.
Donetsk Oblast Governor Pavlo Kyrylenko says Russian troops seized the Regional Intensive Care Hospital in Mariupol late on Tuesday, local time.
He said Russian troops drove 400 people from neighbouring houses to the hospital.
And it’s believed about 100 doctors and patients were already inside.
Mr Kyrylenko said the troops were using those inside the hospital as human shields and are not allowing anyone to leave.
“It’s impossible to leave the hospital, they are shooting hard,” he said.
Mr Kyrylenko said the main building of the hospital has been heavily damaged by shelling, but medical staff are continuing to treat patients in makeshift wards set up in the basement.
He called on the world to respond to these “gross violations of the norms and customs of war, these egregious crimes against humanity”.
The Ukrainian army’s General Staff said Russian troops were trying to block off the city from the western and eastern outskirts of the city.
“There are significant losses,” it said in a Facebook post.
Reporting by Associated Press”
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-16/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv-mariupol/100912966
Date: 16/03/2022 14:11:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861271
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Or maybe it’s a polynya costume
or polyenal
Date: 16/03/2022 14:20:01
From: buffy
ID: 1861272
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
But I guess we’ll find out in the coming weeks, I’ll keep on my pollyanna costume for now
Or for a more literary bent, perhaps Candide. (Or Dr Pangloss)
Date: 16/03/2022 14:24:01
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861275
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Or maybe it’s a polynya costume
or polyenal
Polypropylene?
Date: 16/03/2022 14:26:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861277
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
Or maybe it’s a polynya costume
or polyenal
Polypropylene?
Polly knees ya in the tenders.
Date: 16/03/2022 14:42:48
From: dv
ID: 1861282
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
Date: 16/03/2022 14:44:34
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1861284
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
I’d like to see Moscow sacked.
Date: 16/03/2022 14:47:08
From: dv
ID: 1861285
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
I’d like to see Moscow sacked.
napoleon has entered chat
Date: 16/03/2022 14:47:22
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861286
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine claim the death of a fourth Russian general – Maj. Gen. Oleg Mityaev.
Date: 16/03/2022 14:48:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861287
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
Why were they ever allowed membership? They’ve always spat on human rights.
Date: 16/03/2022 14:50:13
From: Cymek
ID: 1861288
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
I’d like to see Moscow sacked.
Putin’s sack probably hangs low these days
Date: 16/03/2022 15:04:11
From: dv
ID: 1861293
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
German officials will not recommend keeping nuclear power plants on the grid beyond their long-awaited December switch-off date despite the energy crisis exacerbated by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Officials concluded in a politically sensitive study that keeping the last three reactors online would lead to technical and legal problems that would not be worth tackling for what they described as a small amount of extra power next winter.
The findings, accepted by Economy Minister Robert Habeck, dash the hopes of some politicians that extending the life of Germany’s nuclear plants could fill the gap left by unpredictable and politically toxic Russian gas imports.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/2022/03/14/germany-rules-out-delaying-nuclear-power-switch-off-despite-energy-crisis/
Date: 16/03/2022 16:09:39
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861311
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
There’ll be wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Kremlin tonight.
Date: 16/03/2022 16:11:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861314
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
I’d like to see Moscow sacked.
It’s been tried. I think that the last successful lash at it was in the late 16th century.
Been a couple of disappointed contenders since then.
Date: 16/03/2022 16:15:32
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861317
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, apparently.
I’d like to see Moscow sacked.
It’s been tried. I think that the last successful lash at it was in the late 16th century.
Been a couple of disappointed contenders since then.
Napoleon made it Moscow. He would have burnt it to the ground but the retreating locals did it for him.
Date: 16/03/2022 18:53:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861390
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian soldier sums up the Russian war efforts

Date: 16/03/2022 19:50:57
From: dv
ID: 1861402
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Poland’s deputy prime minister calls for international peacekeeping mission in Ukraine
Poland’s Deputy Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski has called for an international peacekeeping mission to be sent to Ukraine following a meeting Tuesday with the leaders of Poland, Slovenia, the Czech Republic and Ukraine in Kyiv.
“I believe that a NATO peace mission or a wider international treaty mission is needed, which will be able to defend itself and which will operate in Ukraine,” Kaczynski said, according to the Polish Prime Minister’s office. “I would like to refer to the consciences of European leaders, to the principles they proclaim, because Ukraine needs help.”
On Wednesday, NATO’s defense ministers meet in Brussels.
As he arrived at NATO’s headquarters in the Belgian capital Wednesday, British Defense Minister Ben Wallace said while details must be looked at before a decision can be made on peacekeeping forces, “we have to continue to show — in action — our support to Ukraine and its freedoms and not just talk.”
Date: 16/03/2022 19:58:10
From: party_pants
ID: 1861404
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Poland’s deputy prime minister calls for international peacekeeping mission in Ukraine
Poland’s Deputy Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski has called for an international peacekeeping mission to be sent to Ukraine following a meeting Tuesday with the leaders of Poland, Slovenia, the Czech Republic and Ukraine in Kyiv.
“I believe that a NATO peace mission or a wider international treaty mission is needed, which will be able to defend itself and which will operate in Ukraine,” Kaczynski said, according to the Polish Prime Minister’s office. “I would like to refer to the consciences of European leaders, to the principles they proclaim, because Ukraine needs help.”
On Wednesday, NATO’s defense ministers meet in Brussels.
As he arrived at NATO’s headquarters in the Belgian capital Wednesday, British Defense Minister Ben Wallace said while details must be looked at before a decision can be made on peacekeeping forces, “we have to continue to show — in action — our support to Ukraine and its freedoms and not just talk.”
It is not a peacekeeping force unless all parties to the conflict agree to a cessation of war and are looking for a transition to some kind of normal peaceful life. If one party is still belligerent and hoping to achieve some kind of outcome through the use of force any intervention by any outside party is an intervention, it is not peacekeeping. If there is no peace to keep, there is only intervention and escalation.
Date: 16/03/2022 19:59:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861406
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Ukrainian soldier sums up the Russian war efforts

They are lucky.
Who would have thought that.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:05:03
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861408
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Behind a paywall but if using Chrome, you can enable Reader Mode to read it anyway:
Is this the end of the tank?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/14/end-tank/
Date: 16/03/2022 20:09:30
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1861414
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Behind a paywall but if using Chrome, you can enable Reader Mode to read it anyway:
Is this the end of the tank?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/14/end-tank/
Cant read that it’s behind a paywall, pilgrim.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:10:40
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861415
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Behind a paywall but if using Chrome, you can enable Reader Mode to read it anyway:
Is this the end of the tank?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/14/end-tank/
Cant read that it’s behind a paywall, pilgrim.
Then switch to Chrome and enable Reader Mode.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:11:02
From: furious
ID: 1861416
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Behind a paywall but if using Chrome, you can enable Reader Mode to read it anyway:
Is this the end of the tank?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/14/end-tank/
Years ago, someone I knew joined the army. Mad about tanks he was. I asked him if he was going to get into tanks and he was like “are you crazy? There’s too many ways to destroy a tank.”…
Date: 16/03/2022 20:13:34
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861418
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Behind a paywall but if using Chrome, you can enable Reader Mode to read it anyway:
Is this the end of the tank?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/14/end-tank/
Boris Johnson thinks so.
https://www.indy100.com/politics/boris-johnson-russia-ukraine-tanks
But personally, I think they are a very useful tool but definitely not in an urban environment with limited air coverage.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:14:35
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1861419
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Behind a paywall but if using Chrome, you can enable Reader Mode to read it anyway:
Is this the end of the tank?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/14/end-tank/
Cant read that it’s behind a paywall, pilgrim.
Then switch to Chrome and enable Reader Mode.
No, I’m hanging on by my fingernails to Internet Explorer despite their ever increasing efforts to wean me off it. They are becoming more and more insistent that I change to Edge every day and they have started shelling the top of my street.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:19:12
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1861422
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Cant read that it’s behind a paywall, pilgrim.
Then switch to Chrome and enable Reader Mode.
No, I’m hanging on by my fingernails to Internet Explorer despite their ever increasing efforts to wean me off it. They are becoming more and more insistent that I change to Edge every day and they have started shelling the top of my street.
The newer weapons attack the top of the turret which is a major weak point, the russian T tanks also have an ammunition carousel in the turret so when they get hit from above it makes a big bang.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:22:15
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861425
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Then switch to Chrome and enable Reader Mode.
No, I’m hanging on by my fingernails to Internet Explorer despite their ever increasing efforts to wean me off it. They are becoming more and more insistent that I change to Edge every day and they have started shelling the top of my street.
The newer weapons attack the top of the turret which is a major weak point, the russian T tanks also have an ammunition carousel in the turret so when they get hit from above it makes a big bang.
“They don’t like it up’em Mr. Mannerin’ Sir!”
(Tank go boom, don’t pay too close attention to the things being thrown around :( )
https://youtu.be/ZxeA5pcCpdI
Date: 16/03/2022 20:24:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861426
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
It is not a peacekeeping force unless all parties to the conflict agree to a cessation of war and are looking for a transition to some kind of normal peaceful life. If one party is still belligerent and hoping to achieve some kind of outcome through the use of force any intervention by any outside party is an intervention, it is not peacekeeping. If there is no peace to keep, there is only intervention and escalation.
so Putin should have just stopped at Donbas and all would have been fine and dandy
Date: 16/03/2022 20:24:36
From: dv
ID: 1861427
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Cant read that it’s behind a paywall, pilgrim.
Then switch to Chrome and enable Reader Mode.
No, I’m hanging on by my fingernails to Internet Explorer despite their ever increasing efforts to wean me off it. They are becoming more and more insistent that I change to Edge every day and they have started shelling the top of my street.
Y tho
Date: 16/03/2022 20:25:34
From: dv
ID: 1861428
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
party_pants said:
It is not a peacekeeping force unless all parties to the conflict agree to a cessation of war and are looking for a transition to some kind of normal peaceful life. If one party is still belligerent and hoping to achieve some kind of outcome through the use of force any intervention by any outside party is an intervention, it is not peacekeeping. If there is no peace to keep, there is only intervention and escalation.
so Putin should have just stopped at Donbas and all would have been fine and dandy
I can see you’ve never run a proper denazification campaign
Date: 16/03/2022 20:27:21
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1861429
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Then switch to Chrome and enable Reader Mode.
No, I’m hanging on by my fingernails to Internet Explorer despite their ever increasing efforts to wean me off it. They are becoming more and more insistent that I change to Edge every day and they have started shelling the top of my street.
Y tho
I’ll have no truck with change.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:31:56
From: party_pants
ID: 1861430
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Bubblecar said:
Behind a paywall but if using Chrome, you can enable Reader Mode to read it anyway:
Is this the end of the tank?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/14/end-tank/
Years ago, someone I knew joined the army. Mad about tanks he was. I asked him if he was going to get into tanks and he was like “are you crazy? There’s too many ways to destroy a tank.”…
People have been predicting the end of the tank for decades. Also of the surface warship like destroyers and frigates.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:33:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861431
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Another article on the same theme: (no paywall):
Tanking tanks sign of Russian rot
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2022/3/15/22979168/ukraine-invasion-russian-army-tanks-steinberg
Date: 16/03/2022 20:34:27
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861432
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
No, I’m hanging on by my fingernails to Internet Explorer despite their ever increasing efforts to wean me off it. They are becoming more and more insistent that I change to Edge every day and they have started shelling the top of my street.
Y tho
I’ll have no truck with change.
Still traumatised from puberty. It all makes sense
Date: 16/03/2022 20:46:09
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861433
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Another article on the same theme: (no paywall):
Tanking tanks sign of Russian rot
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2022/3/15/22979168/ukraine-invasion-russian-army-tanks-steinberg
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:47:53
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861435
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Another article on the same theme: (no paywall):
Tanking tanks sign of Russian rot
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2022/3/15/22979168/ukraine-invasion-russian-army-tanks-steinberg
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:49:35
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1861436
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Another article on the same theme: (no paywall):
Tanking tanks sign of Russian rot
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2022/3/15/22979168/ukraine-invasion-russian-army-tanks-steinberg
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
Probably enough rubbish in the ocean as it is.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:52:19
From: party_pants
ID: 1861437
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Another article on the same theme: (no paywall):
Tanking tanks sign of Russian rot
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2022/3/15/22979168/ukraine-invasion-russian-army-tanks-steinberg
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
Maybe they could give them to us to be used to eliminate feral cats, foxes and cane toads with them.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:52:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861438
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
Probably enough rubbish in the ocean as it is.
True. But they might be okay for artificial reefs.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:54:02
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861439
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
Another article on the same theme: (no paywall):
Tanking tanks sign of Russian rot
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2022/3/15/22979168/ukraine-invasion-russian-army-tanks-steinberg
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
The Arctic ices over in Winter so they’ll probably drive to Canada and invade those Canooks.
Date: 16/03/2022 20:56:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861441
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
The newer weapons attack the top of the turret which is a major weak point, the russian T tanks also have an ammunition carousel in the turret so when they get hit from above it makes a big bang.
All tanks need access to the ammunition storage. The problem that Russian tanks have is that they don’t have any protection for the magazine when it doesn’t need to be open. Other tanks, like the M1 Abrams that Australia has, have a sliding blast door that quickly and automatically opens and closes.
The Russian tanks have nothing of the sort – their magazine is basically open all the time. So any sort of hit/flash/concussion in the turret, and the whole works goes of at once.
At least it’s quick.
Date: 16/03/2022 21:00:38
From: dv
ID: 1861443
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
Probably enough rubbish in the ocean as it is.
I mean really in 2022, invading other countries is a bit obsolete.
Date: 16/03/2022 21:01:23
From: party_pants
ID: 1861444
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
poikilotherm said:
The newer weapons attack the top of the turret which is a major weak point, the russian T tanks also have an ammunition carousel in the turret so when they get hit from above it makes a big bang.
All tanks need access to the ammunition storage. The problem that Russian tanks have is that they don’t have any protection for the magazine when it doesn’t need to be open. Other tanks, like the M1 Abrams that Australia has, have a sliding blast door that quickly and automatically opens and closes.
The Russian tanks have nothing of the sort – their magazine is basically open all the time. So any sort of hit/flash/concussion in the turret, and the whole works goes of at once.
At least it’s quick.
NATO tanks generally need an extra crew member to pull it out of the ammunition storage and load it into the gun. The Russian tanks use the autoloader to reduce the crew size – one less body to be trained, feed, housed, paid etc. The big problem was that there were still 2 crew inside the turret with all that ammo. The newer T-14 tank shifts all three crew to the driver’s compartment and the turret is completely automated. Not sure how that is working out so far, I gather the Russians don’t have very many of them n service yet.
Date: 16/03/2022 21:55:33
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861456
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Player or played? Xi-Putin alliance faces defining moment in Ukraine
China seeks to appear impartial amid global scrutiny of military ties
MARRIAN ZHOU and TSUKASA HADANO, Nikkei staff writers
MARCH 16, 2022 06:00 JST
BEIJING/NEW YORK — The Diaoyutai State Guesthouse in Beijing is a low-lying gable-roofed complex surrounded by scenic pines and bamboo groves that in China’s modern era has hosted guests of state from Henry Kissinger to Kim Jong Un. It was there, in the guesthouse’s Fang Hua Yuan building, just after 3 p.m. on Feb. 4, that Chinese President Xi Jinping stood smiling to welcome Russian President Vladimir Putin.
The summit was the leaders’ first face-to-face meeting in two years, on the eve of the Beijing Winter Olympics, where Putin was Xi’s guest of honor. This was a friendship between the world’s two greatest autocrats, one in which the personal melded seamlessly with the geopolitical, like the dynastic marriages of the middle ages.
Xi has famously described Putin as his “best, most intimate, friend,” and in 2018 presented him with an absurdly large gold “friendship medal” when the president visited Beijing. Putin, for his part, confided to the People’s Daily the same year that Xi was the only world leader with whom he celebrated his birthday. “I won’t hide this, we cut up some sausage and drank some vodka” during the 2018 Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Bali.
But the Feb. 4 meeting produced little of the same warmth or spontaneity of previous encounters: The two leaders did not shake hands and kept their distance, facing each other across a desk. Xi, appearing animated, gestured toward the laconic-looking Russian leader. Putin looked back with an occasional smile, but his eyes held no mirth. After attending the Olympic opening ceremony, Putin returned to Russia that same day. He was in China for less than 10 hours.
It was following the meeting, however, that the importance of an otherwise perfunctory visit was made clear. The Kremlin published a joint statement that spanned 15 A4 sheets of paper. “A trend has emerged towards redistribution of power in the world,” the statement reads, affirming a “no limits” partnership between Russia and China that sounds very much like an alliance.
The document also harmonized the two countries’ positions on issues such as Taiwan, NATO expansion, and a wide-ranging statement of broad agreement on principles of a new world order. It was partly a Yalta-style division of Eurasia into spheres of influence and partly a political manifesto.
Russia’s publication of the full statement appeared to catch China by surprise, as Beijing only published a short summary of the Kremlin’s document. It took a full five hours for Xinhua News Agency, China’s official press service, to publish the same full document in Mandarin.
A friend in need is a friend indeed?
This statement, and the obvious Chinese hesitation surrounding it, would be recalled three weeks hence, when, following a barrage of cruise missiles and airstrikes, Russian forces rolled across the border into neighboring Ukraine in a war of unprovoked subjugation — the largest armed conflict Europe has seen since 1945.
It was not clear what Putin had told Xi during or after their meeting, nor whether Xi was expecting any attack at all, let alone one of the scale that Russia had planned. Nonetheless, the invasion on Feb. 24 appeared to cast China in a new role as Russia’s enabler. Xi’s fingerprints were found at the crime scene, in the form of the joint statement that backed Russia’s aim of thwarting NATO expansion, which Putin has since claimed as justification for the Ukraine invasion.
China, like much of the world, appeared shocked by the carnage taking place in Ukraine, but the government gamely played along: A foreign ministry spokesperson refused to use the word “invasion” to refer to the attack, while Chinese official media went into overdrive in support of Russia’s campaign. “Putin aims to demilitarize Ukraine” was one headline in the state-controlled China Daily on Feb. 25.
But then the war started to go badly for Russia. Previous Russian military operations, from Chechnya in 2000 and Georgia in 2008 to Crimea in 2014 and Syria in 2015, had been military and political successes, as the Kremlin kept its goals manageable and converted military victories into stable political order. But this time, Putin’s appetite for risk had seemingly gotten the better of him, as had — apparently — Xi’s faith in the Russian leader.
Russia’s army became increasingly bogged down in the face of spirited Ukrainian defenders. While it shelled cities and killed civilians, Western sanctions were wrecking Russia’s economy.
Three weeks into the conflict, with Russia’s army taking heavy losses, China reportedly is under pressure from Russia to make good on its “no limits” partnership. Russia has covertly asked China for military assistance, and China has signaled its willingness, American officials say, according to a report in the Financial Times on March 15. Russia has since denied making such a request, while China’s foreign ministry spokesperson has accused the U.S. of spreading “false information.”
Everything else that China has done so far in the crisis can be easily walked back or denied — but not military aid. “China faces an increasingly tough choice,” Jacques deLisle, director of the Center for the Study of Contemporary China at the University of Pennsylvania, told Nikkei Asia. “Does it move away from its recently proclaimed ‘no limits’ relations with Russia, or does it feed the narrative that China is an outlier in a world that is aligned against Putin’s war?”
This is a defining moment for Beijing, and a fateful decision — give aid to Russia and share its fate, or stand aloof as Russia faces collapse. In other words, how many limits are there on a “no limits” partnership?
“We are communicating directly, privately to Beijing that there will absolutely be consequences for large-scale sanctions evasion efforts or support to Russia to backfill them,” U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan told CNN on Sunday. “We will not allow that to go forward and allow there to be a lifeline to Russia from these economic sanctions from any country anywhere in the world.”
Were China to aid Russia the consequences would be breathtaking. Not since the Vietnam War have the U.S. and China been on opposite sides of a proxy war. The alliance of Moscow and Beijing would “accelerate the cleavage of the world in direction of adversarial blocs,” tweeted Ryan Hass, a scholar at the Brookings Institution in Washington.
Indeed, the West would face the prospect of the two Eurasian superpowers standing together in a military confrontation for the first time since the Sino-Soviet pact of the 1950s that fought the U.S. Army to a standstill on the Korean Peninsula. That represents the last time the West faced a hegemonic ideological competitor, an alliance that stretched from Berlin to the South China Sea.
Fumbling for the middle ground
China is long accustomed to sitting on the sidelines of conflict. It has not fought a war since its 1979 invasion of Vietnam and has cast the fewest vetoes of any United Nations Security Council member, 13 since taking its seat in 1971.
Supporting Russia would require China to go “way out of its comfort zone,” according to a diplomat from an Asian country interviewed by Nikkei Asia.
China has offered only rhetorical support to Russia, and nothing that it could not later take back. Abstaining in two United Nations votes on the Ukraine crisis buttressed Beijing’s case that it was remaining impartial and “costs Beijing nothing,” the Asian diplomat said.
Indeed, China has made overtures to both sides, giving humanitarian aid to Ukraine while still describing the relationship with Russia as “rock-solid,” according to Foreign Minister Wang Yi on March 7 at a news conference.
On March 8, Xi told his French and German counterparts that Beijing was ready to work with the international community to “prevent the tense situation from escalating, or even running out of control,” in his strongest comments yet on the two-week-old invasion.
While China has publicly opposed economic sanctions imposed on Russia by the West, Chinese companies and banks have been quietly complying. Two of China’s largest banks, Bank of China (BOC) and the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, restricted financing for purchases of Russian commodities after Western countries announced sanctions on Russia, according to Bloomberg.
“They are trying not to stand out,” a senior Asian government official with long experience in China told Nikkei.
Beijing is now finding its position increasingly untenable: Not choosing is increasingly seen by the West as a choice, and China may find it impossible to avoid collateral damage from U.S. sanctions. Meanwhile, Russia has become desperate and is pressuring China to make good on the “no limits” partnership that Xi himself described last year as “better than an alliance.”
China’s foreign policy establishment, meanwhile, has been uncharacteristically rumbustious in debating the Russia problem; the academics and think-tankers generally present a united front in defending Beijing’s chosen orthodoxy. But this usually placid surface of consensus has been roiled by public dissent among scholars, which invariably signals disagreements at the top.
On March 5, for example, Hu Wei, the vice chairman of the Public Policy Research Center of the Counselor’s Office of the State Council, published an article criticizing China’s policy of impartiality on the Ukraine crisis.
“At present, China has tried not to offend either side and walked a middle ground in its international statements and choices,” he wrote. “However, this position does not meet Russia’s needs, and it has infuriated Ukraine and its supporters as well as sympathizers, putting China on the wrong side of much of the world. In some cases, apparent neutrality is a sensible choice, but it does not apply to this war, where China has nothing to gain,” Hu wrote. “Being in the same boat with Putin will impact China should he lose power. Unless Putin can secure victory with China’s backing, a prospect which looks bleak at the moment, China does not have the clout to back Russia.”
The article was later censored inside China.
A limit to ‘no limits’?
It is clear that there is only one opinion in China that counts, that of Xi, and this is an especially bad time for him to be wrong.
In the fall, the Chinese Communist Party’s twice-a-decade national congress will vote on senior party appointments, including whether to give Xi a third five-year term at the top. China’s national legislature in 2018 voted to abolish the presidential term limits that had been put in place in 1982 to prevent the emergence of another lifelong leader like Mao Zedong.
A potential stalemate in Ukraine, not to mention Russian defeat, would raise questions about his judgment, and could hurt his authority within the party at a critical time.
The strength of the state-to-state “no limits” relationship may derive from Xi and Putin’s personal chemistry, and many of the answers to the riddle of China-Russia cooperation may lie in the meeting between the leaders on Feb. 4. It is not clear, for example, whether Putin had been straight with Xi about his intentions or the scale of the planned military operation in Ukraine.
China insists that it knew nothing: “Assertions that China knew about, acquiesced to or tacitly supported this war are purely disinformation” said Qin Gang, China’s ambassador to Washington, in an opinion article in the Washington Post on March 15. “Conflict between Russia and Ukraine does no good for China. Had China known about the imminent crisis, we would have tried our best to prevent it.”
China seemed taken completely by surprise by Russia’s invasion. Many other countries had issued travel advisories to their citizens to leave Ukraine as early as Feb. 12, but China waited until two weeks later and seemed utterly unprepared to evacuate its citizens. It was not until Feb. 28 that the Chinese embassy in Ukraine advised Chinese nationals to evacuate by land. On March 7, the embassy issued another warning, urging Chinese to “leave Ukraine as quickly as possible.” It has become clear that large numbers of Chinese were living in the country, though the foreign ministry admitted it didn’t know how many.
A source familiar with the inner workings of the Chinese government told Nikkei, “Russia told them that it would punish Ukraine, but Xi and the leadership absolutely did not expect such a large attack.”
The source pointed out that those who attended the Feb. 4 summit were ministers in charge of economic and foreign affairs, not military officials who could have exchanged specific plans. If information about Putin’s planned invasion was shared, it could have been after the dinner or at a meeting of the Chinese and Russian foreign ministers on Feb. 3.
According to this person, Ukraine had been on the agenda of Chinese and Russian diplomatic officials since mid-2021, as tensions between Moscow and Kyiv were already growing. Beijing had always gathered that any Russian attack would only be partial, they said, and Chinese leadership had been distracted, focused on making the Beijing Winter Olympics a success.
Daylight between the partners had been visible in the five-hour delay in the Chinese release of the joint statement. “China wants to ease tensions with the U.S. and Europe, and it didn’t want to reveal the details of the joint statement,” said a diplomatic source in Beijing. “It may have been forced to act because Russia disclosed all of the details.”
According to a party source, diplomatic officials are being singled out for criticism within the party for misjudging the situation.
Underlying tensions
Beyond the personal chemistry between Xi and Putin, many experts struggle to put their finger on why the countries should be as close as they are. So far Moscow and Beijing can only seem to agree on common enemies and perceived threats, which are plentiful, according to the countries’ joint statement of Feb. 4.
One is Taiwanese independence, the subject of key language Russia agreed to. “The Russian side reaffirms its support for the One China principle, confirms that Taiwan is an inalienable part of China, and opposes any forms of independence of Taiwan,” the Feb. 4 joint statement says. “One China principle” marks a big pivot. Putin had previously recognized the “One China policy.”
The U.S. and Europe adhere to the “One China policy,” which acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China, but they do not explicitly recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.
That subtle change will likely cause some sleepless nights in Taipei, and was welcomed by Xi, who sees unification with Taiwan as his biggest challenge. It also gives China more reason to adhere to the two countries’ partnership.
Another place Russia and China might see eye to eye is NATO enlargement. While geographically removed from Europe, China has been displaying keener interest toward NATO following a June 2021 statement Beijing interprets as a threat.
China, the alliance said that month, presents “systemic challenges to the rules-based international order and to areas relevant to alliance security.” Previously NATO had only referred to “opportunities and challenges” posed by China’s rise. China’s mission to the European Union called the NATO statement “slander,” adding, “We will not present a ‘systemic challenge’ to anyone, but if someone wants to pose a ‘systemic challenge’ to us, we will not remain indifferent.”
China and Russia thus see each other mainly as the enemy of their enemy, but not necessarily as friends. “It’s hard to predict the longevity and stability of the current Sino-Russian alignment. It begins and ends with China’s anti-U.S. agenda and is strengthened by Xi’s personal preferences,” wrote Yun Sun, director of the China Program at the Stimson Center. “There is a famous Chinese saying among Russia hands that China and Russia can only share miseries, but not happiness.
“China and Russia will align against a common enemy. Yet it will split, in a destructive way, when that delicate equilibrium is disrupted by any structural change.”
Suisheng Zhao, executive director of the Center for China-U.S. Cooperation at the University of Denver, said China “does not trust Russia” historically and they “never worked together that well.”
Zhao explained that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will inevitably raise parallels with Russia’s annexation of Chinese lands during the Qing dynasty in the 19th century, when Russia, posing as a mediator of peace, took over a million square kilometers of territory with a series of unequal treaties.
Although the Chinese internet is now flooded with comments praising Putin as “the Great Emperor,” Chinese people have not forgotten the history of Sino-Russia conflicts. In July 2020, Chinese netizens were furious when the Russian embassy in China celebrated the 160th anniversary of the city of Vladivostok as part of Russia. Known historically as Haishenwai in Chinese, it was taken from China in 1860.
The Sino-Soviet partnership of the 1950s, meanwhile, was short-lived, and within a decade the countries had split. They fought a brief border war in 1969 over islands in a Siberian river. It was not until the 1990s that they reconciled, signing the Sino-Russian Treaty of Friendship in 2001.
“Russia was never reliable to China and Russia always tried to dominate China, China was never happy on the little brother position in the 1960s, that was why they had the Sino-Soviet split,” Zhao said. “Now China is more powerful than Russia, China knew Russia is not happy about it Russia will eventually try to dominate.
“If Russia becomes successful in this war, Russia will expand further, China could become a victim in that process.”
On unequal footing
From an economic standpoint, Russia is far more dependent on China than China is on Russia, though China does depend on Russian exports of hydrocarbons and weapons to modernize its forces. However, it also has a significant trading relationship with Ukraine, which is China’s third largest supplier of arms.
A report by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) last March showed that 77% of China’s arms imports from 2016 to 2020 came from Russia. They mainly consisted of combat aircraft. During the same period, Ukraine shipped 36% of its total arms exports to China.
Russia’s dependency on China gives the latter much more freedom of movement to join in sanctions against Russia, should it wish to do so.
“People in the U.S. like to talk about the China-Russia alliance of autocracies as if they were partners … but it’s a clearly unequal partnership,” deLisle of the University of Pennsylvania said. “China is far more important, certainly in the economic realm, but also increasingly in the security realm.”
China has long been Russia’s largest single trading partner. In 2019, China bought 14.3% of Russia’s exports, roughly $58 billion worth. Of Russia’s imports, China shipped 22%, $47 billion worth, according to Worldbank data. The main product Russia exported to China was crude oil, whereas China mostly exported communication products to Russia.
China also has been Ukraine’s largest single trading partner since 2019, when it overtook Russia.
Trade and collaboration between Ukraine and China have been increasing since 2020, when the nations agreed to cooperate more on infrastructure and in other areas as part of a Belt and Road partnership.
Beijing, which sees Ukraine as a transit hub that could connect Asia and Europe, has signed construction contracts with Kyiv nearing $3 billion, according to Chinese state media Xinhua in January. Chinese companies generated more than $665 million in revenue from contracted projects in Ukraine in 2020, according to China’s National Bureau of Statistics.
“China’s economic relationship with Russia is really unimportant for China, it’s very small, it would not cost China very much economically if it were to join the economic sanctions against Russia,” said deLisle. “ is not doing so for geopolitical reasons.”
For China, meanwhile, the cost of an entente with Russia is rising by the day. DeLisle said that backing Russia had worked for China partly because the U.S. and the EU’s concerns about Putin “tied down a lot of attention and security assets” and that distraction benefited China to grow and expand in terms of security.
“In that sense, there may be a small plus for China from what Russia is doing, but I think the downside outweighs it,” deLisle said. “The way that China is now caught in the middle faces the prospect that the West and much of East Asia will be more focused on the risks that come with economic dependence on a country that may have politically troubling state leadership.”
Zhao believes that the Ukraine war could be “a turning point” of Sino-Russia relations if Western countries like the U.S. and the EU “try to include China and work with China.”
“China overall is different from Russia because China has been a beneficiary of the current international order created and constructed under the U.S. leadership, Russia has been a country in decline in the system,” Zhao said. “It’s in China’s interest to work with the U.S., it’s not in Russia’s interest to work with the U.S.
“If the U.S. could take advantage of this opportunity to work with China, I think that’s a magnificent accomplishment for the U.S. and also for China.”
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/The-Big-Story/Player-or-played-Xi-Putin-alliance-faces-defining-moment-in-Ukraine?
Date: 16/03/2022 22:05:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861460
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 16/03/2022 22:24:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861473
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 16/03/2022 22:37:18
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861482
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Instead of Russia dumping its antiquated tanks in Ukraine they should dump them in the ocean instead.
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
Maybe they could give them to us to be used to eliminate feral cats, foxes and cane toads with them.
Might be able to have a decent chance against them emus if hostilities ever recommence.
Date: 16/03/2022 22:43:47
From: party_pants
ID: 1861485
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
And ammo trucks, missile launchers and portable morgues, dump the lot in the ocean.
Maybe they could give them to us to be used to eliminate feral cats, foxes and cane toads with them.
Might be able to have a decent chance against them emus if hostilities ever recommence.
Emus have long been defeated. We built a fence and Mexico paid for it. Fence works better than bullets. To this day it is illegal to drive along the fence in case you spook a big mob of emus into running into the fence. 10 grand fine or something.
Date: 17/03/2022 09:19:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861577
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 09:23:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861578
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 09:31:50
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861580
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 09:36:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861584
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
A short list of Russian yacht seizures
well there’s your problem it’s short now if it were longer maybe they’d stop crimming it up in Ukraine hey
Date: 17/03/2022 10:28:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861618
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
and here it is we told you
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-17/us-interest-rate-rise/100909986
Russia have been trolling with Ukraine all along and the war is actually economic
Putin’s war risks causing stagflation
Financial sanctions on Russia are likely to feed even higher inflation and cause further interruptions to the supply of energy in the form of oil and gas as well as food.
It also risks substantially damaging economic growth, which could see the return of a nightmare scenario: stagflation.
Date: 17/03/2022 11:53:51
From: Cymek
ID: 1861674
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I see the UK and USA are sending more weapons to Ukraine, that must royally annoy Putin.
The Russians must be taking huge losses
British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace says that the UK has begun supplying Starstreak anti-aircraft missiles to the Ukrainian military. (Reuters)
U.S. President Joe Biden announces a further $800 million in “security assistance” to Ukraine, including 800 anti-aircraft systems, and thousands of anti-tank missiles and armed combat drones to counter Russia’s invasion. (Reuters)
Date: 17/03/2022 12:00:13
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861677
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
I see the UK and USA are sending more weapons to Ukraine, that must royally annoy Putin.
The Russians must be taking huge losses
British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace says that the UK has begun supplying Starstreak anti-aircraft missiles to the Ukrainian military. (Reuters)
U.S. President Joe Biden announces a further $800 million in “security assistance” to Ukraine, including 800 anti-aircraft systems, and thousands of anti-tank missiles and armed combat drones to counter Russia’s invasion. (Reuters)
There’s gonna be a shoot-out…
Date: 17/03/2022 12:18:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861694
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
I see the UK and USA are sending more weapons to Ukraine, that must royally annoy Putin.
The Russians must be taking huge losses
Hey, you know how to become owner of a Russian plane or helicopter in Ukraine?
Buy a block of land and wait.
Date: 17/03/2022 14:45:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861750
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 14:46:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861753
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 15:01:26
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861768
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 15:02:25
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861769
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 15:03:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1861770
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 16:11:34
From: Michael V
ID: 1861791
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 17/03/2022 17:45:12
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1861813
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
I see the UK and USA are sending more weapons to Ukraine, that must royally annoy Putin.
The Russians must be taking huge losses
British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace says that the UK has begun supplying Starstreak anti-aircraft missiles to the Ukrainian military. (Reuters)
U.S. President Joe Biden announces a further $800 million in “security assistance” to Ukraine, including 800 anti-aircraft systems, and thousands of anti-tank missiles and armed combat drones to counter Russia’s invasion. (Reuters)
That should help clear the sky above Ukraine.
Date: 17/03/2022 18:48:50
From: fsm
ID: 1861822
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances comprises three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
Date: 17/03/2022 19:01:15
From: Michael V
ID: 1861824
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
fsm said:
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances comprises three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
Yeah. Poo-Tin is just that.
Date: 17/03/2022 22:22:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1861868
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

spring in the step
Date: 17/03/2022 23:02:09
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861886
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The last news I read of the war before going to work was the bombing of the theater sheltering all them civilians. It is good to come home to news that the majority of them were in a bomb shelter, and survived.
Meanwhile…
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html
“Two American military officials said that many Russian generals are talking on unsecured phones and radios. In at least one instance, they said, the Ukrainians intercepted a general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.”
Date: 17/03/2022 23:10:08
From: sibeen
ID: 1861889
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
The last news I read of the war before going to work was the bombing of the theater sheltering all them civilians. It is good to come home to news that the majority of them were in a bomb shelter, and survived.
Meanwhile…
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html
“Two American military officials said that many Russian generals are talking on unsecured phones and radios. In at least one instance, they said, the Ukrainians intercepted a general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.”
Hahahahaha
That’s actually not surprising. I worked in the technical side of electronic warfare but heard enough stories from the ‘operators’ that this doesn’t shock me. The worst people to be on the radio during an exercise was an officer, and the higher the rank the more lax they were. The operators I worked with just loved officers being on the radio. It was christmas and easter all at the same time.
Date: 17/03/2022 23:20:26
From: sibeen
ID: 1861895
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has not changed his position that the international borders in place since 1991 must continue to be recognised, a presidential adviser said.
Zelenskiy has repeatedly insisted that Ukraine will not compromise on its “territorial integrity” since the Russian invasion on 24 February, Reuters reports.
Doesn’t sound like a bloke who’s willing to give away the farm.
Date: 17/03/2022 23:21:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861896
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has not changed his position that the international borders in place since 1991 must continue to be recognised, a presidential adviser said.
Zelenskiy has repeatedly insisted that Ukraine will not compromise on its “territorial integrity” since the Russian invasion on 24 February, Reuters reports.
Doesn’t sound like a bloke who’s willing to give away the farm.
I was being overly reactionary yesterday.
Date: 17/03/2022 23:23:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861897
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has not changed his position that the international borders in place since 1991 must continue to be recognised, a presidential adviser said.
Zelenskiy has repeatedly insisted that Ukraine will not compromise on its “territorial integrity” since the Russian invasion on 24 February, Reuters reports.
Doesn’t sound like a bloke who’s willing to give away the farm.
I was being overly reactionary yesterday.
Although that’s not quite the right word :)
Date: 17/03/2022 23:24:11
From: sibeen
ID: 1861899
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has not changed his position that the international borders in place since 1991 must continue to be recognised, a presidential adviser said.
Zelenskiy has repeatedly insisted that Ukraine will not compromise on its “territorial integrity” since the Russian invasion on 24 February, Reuters reports.
Doesn’t sound like a bloke who’s willing to give away the farm.
I was being overly reactionary yesterday.
Ya think?
:)
Date: 17/03/2022 23:27:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1861900
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
The last news I read of the war before going to work was the bombing of the theater sheltering all them civilians. It is good to come home to news that the majority of them were in a bomb shelter, and survived.
Meanwhile…
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html
“Two American military officials said that many Russian generals are talking on unsecured phones and radios. In at least one instance, they said, the Ukrainians intercepted a general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.”
It’s likely to go down as one of the most incompetent invasions in history.
Although it’s probably true that Putin didn’t initially regard it as an “invasion”, just an “armed political takeover”. Which just happened to have no chance in hell of succeeding as such, and so he then had to order the top brass, “OK, you can tell your troops it’s an invasion now”, after many had already had their heads blown off.
Date: 17/03/2022 23:40:41
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861901
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
So, Belarus is going to be on the news soon by the looks.
Date: 17/03/2022 23:47:25
From: sibeen
ID: 1861902
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
So, Belarus is going to be on the news soon by the looks.
Are they going to be joining in?
Date: 17/03/2022 23:50:11
From: party_pants
ID: 1861903
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
So, Belarus is going to be on the news soon by the looks.
Are they going to be joining in?
I just watched a vid on Youtube saying that there have been mass resignations and desertions from officers and troops not interested in joining in. But nothing verifiable as yet.
Date: 18/03/2022 00:11:45
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1861907
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
So, Belarus is going to be on the news soon by the looks.
Are they going to be joining in?
There’s stuff happening internally, like explosion type stuff. No real news as to what or why so speculation abounds. Is it a gas main? Is it terrorism? Is it a coup? Stay tuned!
Date: 18/03/2022 00:16:28
From: sibeen
ID: 1861908
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
So, Belarus is going to be on the news soon by the looks.
Are they going to be joining in?
There’s stuff happening internally, like explosion type stuff. No real news as to what or why so speculation abounds. Is it a gas main? Is it terrorism? Is it a coup? Stay tuned!
NEWS at 11.
Date: 18/03/2022 07:06:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1861915
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Dark Orange said:
The last news I read of the war before going to work was the bombing of the theater sheltering all them civilians. It is good to come home to news that the majority of them were in a bomb shelter, and survived.
Meanwhile…
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html
“Two American military officials said that many Russian generals are talking on unsecured phones and radios. In at least one instance, they said, the Ukrainians intercepted a general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.”
Hahahahaha
That’s actually not surprising. I worked in the technical side of electronic warfare but heard enough stories from the ‘operators’ that this doesn’t shock me. The worst people to be on the radio during an exercise was an officer, and the higher the rank the more lax they were. The operators I worked with just loved officers being on the radio. It was christmas and easter all at the same time.
It seems that, as they climb up the promotion ladder, people forget what they were taught at the bottom of the ladder.
Down there, you can well believe that you’ll cop the full consequences of mistakes and breaches of practice and protocol, as you’re much closer to ‘the sharp end’. As you rise up the levels, you begin to think that ‘such things don’t apply to me’.
First thing i was taught about radio (and mobile phones are radios) is that ‘ there is always someone else listening in on you’. I know it’s true, as i’ve been that someone more than a few times.
Date: 18/03/2022 13:01:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1861971
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
If a ceasefire is reached should the sanctions against Russia still be continued, its not like the death and destruction will go away.
Not much point in Russia wanting Ukraine’s military capped at a certain level as they will most likely be rebuilding for the next 20 years and not have any cash to rearm it’s soldiers.
The west could I suppose ignore it and smuggle in arms as can’t really trust the Russians to no try again this time with a severely weakened Ukraine.
Date: 18/03/2022 15:57:43
From: dv
ID: 1862010
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754
Popping briefly in.
Putin has laid out his demands in a call to Erdogan.
1. Pledge neutrality including acceptance that Ukraine will not join Nato
2. Demilitarize Ukraine
3. Formal protections for Russian speakers (which would largely already mimic existing laws)
4. Submit to “Denazification”
5. Cede territory in Eastern Ukraine
6. Formally accept Crimea is part of Russia.
—-
I can’t imagine the pressure Zelensky is under. 100s of his countrymen are dying every week including civilians: men, women and children. The temptation to make concessions nust be enormous.
He’s been pretty clear that there will be no concessions territorially and that the 1991 Ukraine borders remain the 2022 Ukraine borders, so 5 and 6 may be non-starters. There’s been some suggestion that a compromise might be to allow UN peacekeepers to monitor Luhansk and Donetsk but IDK, that sounds like something Putin might not accept.
2 should be off the table as well.
Maybe there is some way that 3 and 4 can be agreed to, even though it is ridiculous to get a Jewish Russophone to sign up to stop picking on Russian speakers and give up being a Nazi. Be the kind of thing you’d sign that everyone knows is a nonsense but it is an esoteric loss rather than a real loss of territory or autonomy.
1… it’s a fact that due to Nato’s 1995 articles it is not actually possible for Ukraine to join Nato while being partly under Russian occupation. If what Russia is demanding is that Zelensky openly accept that it won’t be joining Nato, well he’s already done that. If he was demanding that they put it in the constitution that they can’t join Nato , ever, well that becomes a different matter.
I don’t really know anything but certainly my gut is that Zelemsky shouldn’t concede anything substantial. Russia is losing 3000 troops a week. They’re lost a lot of heavy hardware. The news blackout isn’t working and tens of thousands of Russians are fleeing Russia to Finland, Turkey, Georgia, anywhere. Their military and security apparati are divided. They are already calling in reinforcements from the Pacific. Their economy is in the shitter and people are disgruntled by service and goods interruptions: the screws tighten day by day. Russian speaking Ukrainians in Mariupol are making Russian forces pay dearly. Ukraine is about to get a huge boost in lethal aid. 20000 foreigners have entered Ukraine to fight on Ukraine’s side.
Easier said than done but … wait, hold on.
—-
Germany is the world’s major contributor financially to Ukraine’s efforts but Zelensky fairly excoriated German politicians in his speech to the Bundestag, more or less saying that they financed Russia’s brutality for years.
Date: 18/03/2022 16:02:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862011
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754
Popping briefly in.
Putin has laid out his demands in a call to Erdogan.
1. Pledge neutrality including acceptance that Ukraine will not join Nato
2. Demilitarize Ukraine
3. Formal protections for Russian speakers (which would largely already mimic existing laws)
4. Submit to “Denazification”
5. Cede territory in Eastern Ukraine
6. Formally accept Crimea is part of Russia.
—-
I can’t imagine the pressure Zelensky is under. 100s of his countrymen are dying every week including civilians: men, women and children. The temptation to make concessions nust be enormous.
He’s been pretty clear that there will be no concessions territorially and that the 1991 Ukraine borders remain the 2022 Ukraine borders, so 5 and 6 may be non-starters. There’s been some suggestion that a compromise might be to allow UN peacekeepers to monitor Luhansk and Donetsk but IDK, that sounds like something Putin might not accept.
2 should be off the table as well.
Maybe there is some way that 3 and 4 can be agreed to, even though it is ridiculous to get a Jewish Russophone to sign up to stop picking on Russian speakers and give up being a Nazi. Be the kind of thing you’d sign that everyone knows is a nonsense but it is an esoteric loss rather than a real loss of territory or autonomy.
1… it’s a fact that due to Nato’s 1995 articles it is not actually possible for Ukraine to join Nato while being partly under Russian occupation. If what Russia is demanding is that Zelensky openly accept that it won’t be joining Nato, well he’s already done that. If he was demanding that they put it in the constitution that they can’t join Nato , ever, well that becomes a different matter.
I don’t really know anything but certainly my gut is that Zelemsky shouldn’t concede anything substantial. Russia is losing 3000 troops a week. They’re lost a lot of heavy hardware. The news blackout isn’t working and tens of thousands of Russians are fleeing Russia to Finland, Turkey, Georgia, anywhere. Their military and security apparati are divided. They are already calling in reinforcements from the Pacific. Their economy is in the shitter and people are disgruntled by service and goods interruptions: the screws tighten day by day. Russian speaking Ukrainians in Mariupol are making Russian forces pay dearly. Ukraine is about to get a huge boost in lethal aid. 20000 foreigners have entered Ukraine to fight on Ukraine’s side.
Easier said than done but … wait, hold on.
—-
Germany is the world’s major contributor financially to Ukraine’s efforts but Zelensky fairly excoriated German politicians in his speech to the Bundestag, more or less saying that they financed Russia’s brutality for years.
The USA will make any shortfall that costs him from Germany?
Date: 18/03/2022 16:16:43
From: Cymek
ID: 1862015
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
They lose no matter what, nation is wrecked, probably hundreds of billions to rebuild it
Sanctions should continue even if a ceasefire is agreed to, a punishment for what has been done.
Each dead person equals one more day of sanctions
Date: 18/03/2022 16:42:09
From: sibeen
ID: 1862020
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754
Popping briefly in.
Putin has laid out his demands in a call to Erdogan.
1. Pledge neutrality including acceptance that Ukraine will not join Nato
2. Demilitarize Ukraine
3. Formal protections for Russian speakers (which would largely already mimic existing laws)
4. Submit to “Denazification”
5. Cede territory in Eastern Ukraine
6. Formally accept Crimea is part of Russia.
—-
I can’t imagine the pressure Zelensky is under. 100s of his countrymen are dying every week including civilians: men, women and children. The temptation to make concessions nust be enormous.
He’s been pretty clear that there will be no concessions territorially and that the 1991 Ukraine borders remain the 2022 Ukraine borders, so 5 and 6 may be non-starters. There’s been some suggestion that a compromise might be to allow UN peacekeepers to monitor Luhansk and Donetsk but IDK, that sounds like something Putin might not accept.
2 should be off the table as well.
Maybe there is some way that 3 and 4 can be agreed to, even though it is ridiculous to get a Jewish Russophone to sign up to stop picking on Russian speakers and give up being a Nazi. Be the kind of thing you’d sign that everyone knows is a nonsense but it is an esoteric loss rather than a real loss of territory or autonomy.
1… it’s a fact that due to Nato’s 1995 articles it is not actually possible for Ukraine to join Nato while being partly under Russian occupation. If what Russia is demanding is that Zelensky openly accept that it won’t be joining Nato, well he’s already done that. If he was demanding that they put it in the constitution that they can’t join Nato , ever, well that becomes a different matter.
I don’t really know anything but certainly my gut is that Zelemsky shouldn’t concede anything substantial. Russia is losing 3000 troops a week. They’re lost a lot of heavy hardware. The news blackout isn’t working and tens of thousands of Russians are fleeing Russia to Finland, Turkey, Georgia, anywhere. Their military and security apparati are divided. They are already calling in reinforcements from the Pacific. Their economy is in the shitter and people are disgruntled by service and goods interruptions: the screws tighten day by day. Russian speaking Ukrainians in Mariupol are making Russian forces pay dearly. Ukraine is about to get a huge boost in lethal aid. 20000 foreigners have entered Ukraine to fight on Ukraine’s side.
Easier said than done but … wait, hold on.
—-
Germany is the world’s major contributor financially to Ukraine’s efforts but Zelensky fairly excoriated German politicians in his speech to the Bundestag, more or less saying that they financed Russia’s brutality for years.
I’m not sure about #4. I’m sure Zelemsky want to remain a nazi, I can just feel it.
Date: 18/03/2022 17:02:29
From: Cymek
ID: 1862032
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754
Popping briefly in.
Putin has laid out his demands in a call to Erdogan.
1. Pledge neutrality including acceptance that Ukraine will not join Nato
2. Demilitarize Ukraine
3. Formal protections for Russian speakers (which would largely already mimic existing laws)
4. Submit to “Denazification”
5. Cede territory in Eastern Ukraine
6. Formally accept Crimea is part of Russia.
—-
I can’t imagine the pressure Zelensky is under. 100s of his countrymen are dying every week including civilians: men, women and children. The temptation to make concessions nust be enormous.
He’s been pretty clear that there will be no concessions territorially and that the 1991 Ukraine borders remain the 2022 Ukraine borders, so 5 and 6 may be non-starters. There’s been some suggestion that a compromise might be to allow UN peacekeepers to monitor Luhansk and Donetsk but IDK, that sounds like something Putin might not accept.
2 should be off the table as well.
Maybe there is some way that 3 and 4 can be agreed to, even though it is ridiculous to get a Jewish Russophone to sign up to stop picking on Russian speakers and give up being a Nazi. Be the kind of thing you’d sign that everyone knows is a nonsense but it is an esoteric loss rather than a real loss of territory or autonomy.
1… it’s a fact that due to Nato’s 1995 articles it is not actually possible for Ukraine to join Nato while being partly under Russian occupation. If what Russia is demanding is that Zelensky openly accept that it won’t be joining Nato, well he’s already done that. If he was demanding that they put it in the constitution that they can’t join Nato , ever, well that becomes a different matter.
I don’t really know anything but certainly my gut is that Zelemsky shouldn’t concede anything substantial. Russia is losing 3000 troops a week. They’re lost a lot of heavy hardware. The news blackout isn’t working and tens of thousands of Russians are fleeing Russia to Finland, Turkey, Georgia, anywhere. Their military and security apparati are divided. They are already calling in reinforcements from the Pacific. Their economy is in the shitter and people are disgruntled by service and goods interruptions: the screws tighten day by day. Russian speaking Ukrainians in Mariupol are making Russian forces pay dearly. Ukraine is about to get a huge boost in lethal aid. 20000 foreigners have entered Ukraine to fight on Ukraine’s side.
Easier said than done but … wait, hold on.
—-
Germany is the world’s major contributor financially to Ukraine’s efforts but Zelensky fairly excoriated German politicians in his speech to the Bundestag, more or less saying that they financed Russia’s brutality for years.
I’m not sure about #4. I’m sure Zelemsky want to remain a nazi, I can just feel it.
Can he do the silly walk without the Nazi connotations
Date: 18/03/2022 18:50:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862069
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 18/03/2022 18:52:30
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862072
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Any news from Belarus?
It’s still a shit-hole.
Date: 18/03/2022 18:57:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862074
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
Any news from Belarus?
It’s still a shit-hole.
Yeah, but is it still ‘their’ shit-hole, or are they wanting to become more ‘our’ shit-hole?
Date: 18/03/2022 21:31:46
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862129
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
apparently

Date: 18/03/2022 21:41:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862133
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
and

Date: 18/03/2022 21:43:57
From: Woodie
ID: 1862134
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
and

WTF is that supposed to mean?
Date: 18/03/2022 21:51:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862141
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
SCIENCE said:
and

WTF is that supposed to mean?
not sure but the source we lifted it from claimed to be satirical
Date: 18/03/2022 22:09:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862154
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
apparently

OK, it took some rummaging about to find the brain cells in for ‘Russian language’ , and there’s a lot of rust on them, but i think it says, ‘we finish wars’.
So far, a lot of them have been finishing this war as scorched heaps of metal on the ground.
Date: 18/03/2022 22:32:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862170
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tell you what you don’t see a lot of in videos from Ukraine:
masks for preventing COVID transmission.
When you’ve got large (if rather inept and stupid) forces of half-witted, brainwashed Russian pissheads off their faces on whatever alcohol they’ve managed to include in their looting bombarding you with indiscriminate bombing and shelling (that is, ‘indiscriminate’ unless you clearly label the building as hospital or childrens’ refuge, in which case they discriminate in favour of blasting it), getting a potentially fatal illlness must shift a few places down the list of immediate risks to your life.
Date: 18/03/2022 22:52:24
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1862171
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Just had a re-listen to 5 poofs and 2 pianos.
Great stuff, but some of the comments are really weird.
Should know better than to read utube comments I suppose.
Date: 18/03/2022 23:10:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862177
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tell you what you don’t see a lot of in videos from Ukraine:
masks for preventing COVID transmission.
When you’ve got large (if rather inept and stupid) forces of half-witted, brainwashed Russian pissheads off their faces on whatever alcohol they’ve managed to include in their looting bombarding you with indiscriminate bombing and shelling (that is, ‘indiscriminate’ unless you clearly label the building as hospital or childrens’ refuge, in which case they discriminate in favour of blasting it), getting a potentially fatal illlness must shift a few places down the list of immediate risks to your life.
fair
we’re happy to live in a society / location where the bigger concern really is a disease that carries a 1% risk of death
furthermore, we’re happy for the society / location to continue to shift towards mitigation of progressively lower risks
Date: 19/03/2022 00:23:06
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1862182
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
A fun little game
https://pixelforest.itch.io/farmers-stealing-tanks
Date: 19/03/2022 00:55:57
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1862183
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
A fun little game
https://pixelforest.itch.io/farmers-stealing-tanks
I’m not good at that.
Date: 19/03/2022 00:57:27
From: furious
ID: 1862184
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Dark Orange said:
A fun little game
https://pixelforest.itch.io/farmers-stealing-tanks
I’m not good at that.
Doesn’t work on mobile devices…
Date: 19/03/2022 02:15:18
From: dv
ID: 1862209
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 19/03/2022 02:17:23
From: dv
ID: 1862211
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 19/03/2022 02:34:25
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1862218
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
OK. I admit to being wrong. About why Russian troops first went into Ukraine.
“Vladimir Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine with claims that Ukraine is committing genocide.”
Well, there you go.
Date: 19/03/2022 02:37:51
From: furious
ID: 1862220
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
OK. I admit to being wrong. About why Russian troops first went into Ukraine.
“Vladimir Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine with claims that Ukraine is committing genocide.”
Well, there you go.
And… you believe that?
Date: 19/03/2022 02:43:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862222
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
mollwollfumble said:
OK. I admit to being wrong. About why Russian troops first went into Ukraine.
“Vladimir Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine with claims that Ukraine is committing genocide.”
Well, there you go.
And… you believe that?
Psychopaths have some strange power over moll.
Even their most obvious lies seem more convincing to him than the easily ascertained truth.
Date: 19/03/2022 02:44:27
From: furious
ID: 1862223
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
furious said:
mollwollfumble said:
OK. I admit to being wrong. About why Russian troops first went into Ukraine.
“Vladimir Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine with claims that Ukraine is committing genocide.”
Well, there you go.
And… you believe that?
Psychopaths have some strange power over moll.
Even their most obvious lies seem more convincing to him than the easily ascertained truth.
So it would appear…
Date: 19/03/2022 03:12:35
From: dv
ID: 1862225
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
OK. I admit to being wrong. About why Russian troops first went into Ukraine.
“Vladimir Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine with claims that Ukraine is committing genocide.”
Well, there you go.

Date: 19/03/2022 03:13:17
From: dv
ID: 1862226
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
SCIENCE said:
and

WTF is that supposed to mean?
The Blue part is labelled Russia and the Red part is labelled China
Date: 19/03/2022 04:17:24
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862228
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
furious said:
mollwollfumble said:
OK. I admit to being wrong. About why Russian troops first went into Ukraine.
“Vladimir Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine with claims that Ukraine is committing genocide.”
Well, there you go.
And… you believe that?
Psychopaths have some strange power over moll.
Even their most obvious lies seem more convincing to him than the easily ascertained truth.
Moll’s stated previously that strongman leaders are preferable to democratically elected politicians.
Date: 19/03/2022 04:34:59
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1862229
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
furious said:
And… you believe that?
Psychopaths have some strange power over moll.
Even their most obvious lies seem more convincing to him than the easily ascertained truth.
Moll’s stated previously that strongman leaders are preferable to democratically elected politicians.
nnnnn.
Date: 19/03/2022 06:17:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862232
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
OK. I admit to being wrong. About why Russian troops first went into Ukraine.
“Vladimir Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine with claims that Ukraine is committing genocide.”
Well, there you go.
So, they are killing themselves?
Date: 19/03/2022 07:10:00
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862234
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Psychopaths have some strange power over moll.
Even their most obvious lies seem more convincing to him than the easily ascertained truth.
Moll’s stated previously that strongman leaders are preferable to democratically elected politicians.
nnnnn.
?
Date: 19/03/2022 07:27:39
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1862236
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
furious said:
And… you believe that?
Psychopaths have some strange power over moll.
Even their most obvious lies seem more convincing to him than the easily ascertained truth.
Moll’s stated previously that strongman leaders are preferable to democratically elected politicians.
Prefers an empire over a republic eh.
Date: 19/03/2022 08:21:14
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862243
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
poikilotherm said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Psychopaths have some strange power over moll.
Even their most obvious lies seem more convincing to him than the easily ascertained truth.
Moll’s stated previously that strongman leaders are preferable to democratically elected politicians.
Prefers an empire over a republic eh.
I think we can safely toss aside the history of Ancient Rome and conclude that even the ‘Star Wars’ canon is too cerebral to inspire Moll’s proclamations on politics.
Date: 19/03/2022 09:12:40
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862245
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Well Accusations Of Genocide Should Be Taken Seriously
Date: 19/03/2022 09:24:28
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862246
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelenskiy visits a hospital.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a51BRVg_460svav1.mp4
A young woman looks at him like she wants to have his baby.
A man tries to get out of his hospital bed to greet him.
Another man offers his wounded hand for a chance to shake Zelenskiy’s hand
Another man salutes Zelenskiy from his hospital bed.
Zelenskiy didn’t have to grab anyone’s hand.

Date: 19/03/2022 09:28:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862247
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Zelenskiy visits a hospital.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a51BRVg_460svav1.mp4
A young woman looks at him like she wants to have his baby.
A man tries to get out of his hospital bed to greet him.
Another man offers his wounded hand for a chance to shake Zelenskiy’s hand
Another man salutes Zelenskiy from his hospital bed.
Zelenskiy didn’t have to grab anyone’s hand.

so what we’re saying is, threats by WA to secede are improving Marketing electoral chances
andor we should be encouraging Russia to attack us
Date: 19/03/2022 09:54:10
From: Michael V
ID: 1862252
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Well Accusations Of Genocide Should Be Taken Seriously
Vietnam invading Cambodia comes to mind.
Date: 19/03/2022 09:54:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862253
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
so what we’re saying is, threats by WA to secede are improving Marketing electoral chances
andor we should be encouraging Russia to attack us
Well…no.
What we’re saying is that Morrison can only dream of being a tiny fraction of the leader that Zelenskiy is.
What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense.
If WA ‘threatened to secede’ (which Ukraine didn’t – it was already separate) and if forces from the rest of Australia (substitute ‘Russia) then attacked WA, then it might be McGowan (sub: Zelenskiy) who gets a chance to shine.
If this scenario came to pass, then we could certainly count on Morrison to stuff up his role in the whole thing far worse than Putin has done in his shitfight.
Date: 19/03/2022 09:57:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862254
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
Well Accusations Of Genocide Should Be Taken Seriously
Vietnam invading Cambodia comes to mind.
Cambodians were getting slaughtered by their own people before Vietnam stepped in.
Not saying that the Vietnamese invasion was any humanitarian model, but it did put an end to a regime that apparently had extinction of the Cambodian people as its goal.
Date: 19/03/2022 09:58:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862255
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
Well Accusations Of Genocide Should Be Taken Seriously
Vietnam invading Cambodia comes to mind.
Cambodians were getting slaughtered by their own people before Vietnam stepped in.
Not saying that the Vietnamese invasion was any humanitarian model, but it did put an end to a regime that apparently had extinction of the Cambodian people as its goal.
Tended to have that long run effect.
Date: 19/03/2022 11:01:40
From: sibeen
ID: 1862263
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Woodie said:
SCIENCE said:
and

WTF is that supposed to mean?
The Blue part is labelled Russia and the Red part is labelled China
They seem to gained a bit but strangely have lost Hainan province.
Date: 19/03/2022 11:05:04
From: buffy
ID: 1862265
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
Well Accusations Of Genocide Should Be Taken Seriously
Vietnam invading Cambodia comes to mind.
Cambodians were getting slaughtered by their own people before Vietnam stepped in.
Not saying that the Vietnamese invasion was any humanitarian model, but it did put an end to a regime that apparently had extinction of the Cambodian people as its goal.
Isn’t that what MV was implying?
Date: 19/03/2022 11:05:45
From: sibeen
ID: 1862266
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
Vietnam invading Cambodia comes to mind.
Cambodians were getting slaughtered by their own people before Vietnam stepped in.
Not saying that the Vietnamese invasion was any humanitarian model, but it did put an end to a regime that apparently had extinction of the Cambodian people as its goal.
Isn’t that what MV was implying?
That’s the way I read it.
Date: 19/03/2022 11:06:46
From: buffy
ID: 1862267
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
buffy said:
captain_spalding said:
Cambodians were getting slaughtered by their own people before Vietnam stepped in.
Not saying that the Vietnamese invasion was any humanitarian model, but it did put an end to a regime that apparently had extinction of the Cambodian people as its goal.
Isn’t that what MV was implying?
That’s the way I read it.
Oh, good. It’s not just that I’m often out of the loop then…
Date: 19/03/2022 11:52:42
From: Michael V
ID: 1862285
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
captain_spalding said:
Michael V said:
Vietnam invading Cambodia comes to mind.
Cambodians were getting slaughtered by their own people before Vietnam stepped in.
Not saying that the Vietnamese invasion was any humanitarian model, but it did put an end to a regime that apparently had extinction of the Cambodian people as its goal.
Isn’t that what MV was implying?
Yes.
Date: 19/03/2022 11:53:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862286
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
buffy said:
captain_spalding said:
Cambodians were getting slaughtered by their own people before Vietnam stepped in.
Not saying that the Vietnamese invasion was any humanitarian model, but it did put an end to a regime that apparently had extinction of the Cambodian people as its goal.
Isn’t that what MV was implying?
Yes.
We never doubted.
Date: 19/03/2022 12:52:34
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1862324
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
One word that I haven’t yet heard in the news on the conflict is Pravda.
Certainly that would be the most reliable source for Russian affairs.

Date: 19/03/2022 12:55:04
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862325
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
One word that I haven’t yet heard in the news on the conflict is Pravda.
Certainly that would be the most reliable source for Russian affairs.

Yeah nah.
Date: 19/03/2022 12:56:51
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862326
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
One word that I haven’t yet heard in the news on the conflict is Pravda.
Certainly that would be the most reliable source for Russian affairs.

You’re a sad joke, moll.
Date: 19/03/2022 13:42:42
From: transition
ID: 1862342
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
One word that I haven’t yet heard in the news on the conflict is Pravda.
Certainly that would be the most reliable source for Russian affairs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda
reading^
Date: 19/03/2022 14:08:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862352
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-19/russian-astronauts-iss-ukraine-flag-cosmonauts/100923800
Date: 19/03/2022 14:29:30
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862360
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
mollwollfumble said:
One word that I haven’t yet heard in the news on the conflict is Pravda.
Certainly that would be the most reliable source for Russian affairs.

Yeah nah.
It is a lamentable fact that you seem to lack an understanding of some of the most basic principles of human society, but alas we have to work with what we are given, so it’s my advice to read this wikipedia article to establishment a foundation for further study. Read it carefully for there will be a quiz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press
Date: 19/03/2022 15:02:31
From: Woodie
ID: 1862373
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
One word that I haven’t yet heard in the news on the conflict is Pravda.
Haven’t hear of of Perestroika and Glasnost since Gorby’s days either, hay what but.
Date: 19/03/2022 16:55:20
From: dv
ID: 1862421
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 19/03/2022 17:48:31
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1862476
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I thought I’d look up what Pravda said about Putin’s announcement to send troops into the Ukraine.
It was a response to both the NATO nuclear threat and to the genocide by Ukraine.

Putin referred to requests for military assistance from the heads of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR).
“In this regard, in accordance with Article 51, Part 7 of the UN Charter, with the approval from the Federation Council and in pursuance of the treaties of friendship and mutual assistance with the DPR and LPR ratified by the Federal Assembly, I have decided to conduct a special military operation,”
During the special operation, the Russian authorities will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, Putin said.
The purpose of what is happening is to protect the people who suffer from bullying and genocide. In addition, Moscow will prosecute those who have committed crimes against civilians and Russian citizens in Ukraine.
Russia could not feel safe coexisting with threats that exist in modern Ukraine. As an example, he recalled statements from the Ukrainian authorities about a possibility to return nuclear weapons and pointed out to the advancement of NATO forces to the Russian borders.
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/150419-putin_ukraine_attack/
Date: 19/03/2022 17:51:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862478
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I thought I’d look up what Pravda said about Putin’s announcement to send troops into the Ukraine.
It was a response to both the NATO nuclear threat and to the genocide by Ukraine.

Putin referred to requests for military assistance from the heads of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR).
“In this regard, in accordance with Article 51, Part 7 of the UN Charter, with the approval from the Federation Council and in pursuance of the treaties of friendship and mutual assistance with the DPR and LPR ratified by the Federal Assembly, I have decided to conduct a special military operation,”
During the special operation, the Russian authorities will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, Putin said.
The purpose of what is happening is to protect the people who suffer from bullying and genocide. In addition, Moscow will prosecute those who have committed crimes against civilians and Russian citizens in Ukraine.
Russia could not feel safe coexisting with threats that exist in modern Ukraine. As an example, he recalled statements from the Ukrainian authorities about a possibility to return nuclear weapons and pointed out to the advancement of NATO forces to the Russian borders.
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/150419-putin_ukraine_attack/
We don’t need no propaganda
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Russians leave them kids alone
Hey! Russians! Leave them kids alone!
Date: 19/03/2022 17:52:02
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862479
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I thought I’d look up what Pravda said about Putin’s announcement to send troops into the Ukraine.
It was a response to both the NATO nuclear threat and to the genocide by Ukraine.

Putin referred to requests for military assistance from the heads of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR).
“In this regard, in accordance with Article 51, Part 7 of the UN Charter, with the approval from the Federation Council and in pursuance of the treaties of friendship and mutual assistance with the DPR and LPR ratified by the Federal Assembly, I have decided to conduct a special military operation,”
During the special operation, the Russian authorities will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, Putin said.
The purpose of what is happening is to protect the people who suffer from bullying and genocide. In addition, Moscow will prosecute those who have committed crimes against civilians and Russian citizens in Ukraine.
Russia could not feel safe coexisting with threats that exist in modern Ukraine. As an example, he recalled statements from the Ukrainian authorities about a possibility to return nuclear weapons and pointed out to the advancement of NATO forces to the Russian borders.
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/150419-putin_ukraine_attack/
You’re still invited to leave this forum please, moll.
You have no friends or supporters here. Why do you post?
Date: 19/03/2022 17:53:22
From: Arts
ID: 1862480
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
You have no friends or supporters here. Why do you post?
that’s a bit mean…
Date: 19/03/2022 17:55:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862481
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
All in all you were all just bricks in the wall.
Date: 19/03/2022 17:55:31
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862483
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
Bubblecar said:
You have no friends or supporters here. Why do you post?
that’s a bit mean…
No, I want the cunt to fuck right off.
He’s supporting the world’s worst psychopath during an insane war while knowing that people here are very upset by what’s going on.
Date: 19/03/2022 17:56:36
From: Woodie
ID: 1862485
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
I thought I’d look up what Pravda said about Putin’s announcement to send troops into the Ukraine.
It was a response to both the NATO nuclear threat and to the genocide by Ukraine.

Putin referred to requests for military assistance from the heads of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR).
“In this regard, in accordance with Article 51, Part 7 of the UN Charter, with the approval from the Federation Council and in pursuance of the treaties of friendship and mutual assistance with the DPR and LPR ratified by the Federal Assembly, I have decided to conduct a special military operation,”
During the special operation, the Russian authorities will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, Putin said.
The purpose of what is happening is to protect the people who suffer from bullying and genocide. In addition, Moscow will prosecute those who have committed crimes against civilians and Russian citizens in Ukraine.
Russia could not feel safe coexisting with threats that exist in modern Ukraine. As an example, he recalled statements from the Ukrainian authorities about a possibility to return nuclear weapons and pointed out to the advancement of NATO forces to the Russian borders.
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/150419-putin_ukraine_attack/
Now…….. Mr Fumble.
Do you support, agree with and believe that perspective on the situation to be fact?
And that is a “yesor a”.
Date: 19/03/2022 17:57:35
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862489
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Arts said:
Bubblecar said:
You have no friends or supporters here. Why do you post?
that’s a bit mean…
No, I want the cunt to fuck right off.
He’s supporting the world’s worst psychopath during an insane war while knowing that people here are very upset by what’s going on.
https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/posts/1862460/
For sure he’s giving confusing messages.
Date: 19/03/2022 17:58:36
From: Woodie
ID: 1862492
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Should be………….
And that is a “yes” or a “no”.
Date: 19/03/2022 18:10:03
From: dv
ID: 1862505
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Best Case Scenario is moll is being one of those edgelords
Date: 19/03/2022 18:35:50
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862523
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Best Case Scenario is moll is being one of those edgelords
That was his handle in the psych ward.
Date: 19/03/2022 18:36:57
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862525
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Best Case Scenario is moll is being one of those edgelords
That was his handle in the psych ward.
Is that where you met him?
Date: 19/03/2022 18:40:33
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862529
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Best Case Scenario is moll is being one of those edgelords
That was his handle in the psych ward.
Is that where you met him?
He’s a legend. When you first get your anti-psychotics they hand out a brochure explaining the dangers of going full Moll.
Date: 19/03/2022 19:23:55
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1862575
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
An interesting video of a Russian KA-52 helicopter doing low-level attacks around a runway, then it eventually gets hit and the pilot gets it on the ground quickly then they bail out. Doesn’t sound like anything too serious in the cockpit but the video shows a lot of damage on the LHS. I’m guessing they lost oil pressure on one engine, maybe fuel though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLa3fZD1vXs
Date: 19/03/2022 19:51:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862595
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
An interesting video of a Russian KA-52 helicopter doing low-level attacks around a runway, then it eventually gets hit and the pilot gets it on the ground quickly then they bail out. Doesn’t sound like anything too serious in the cockpit but the video shows a lot of damage on the LHS. I’m guessing they lost oil pressure on one engine, maybe fuel though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLa3fZD1vXs
Didn’t hear any alarm sounds like other helicopters make for e.g. loss of hydraulic pressure, but what do i know about the noises KA-52s make?
But, that is a good thing with helicopters. When you have to ‘crash land’, it usually involves descending more or less vertically. None of that ploughing into trees and wings shearing off etc.
Wouldn’t have been much fun for the bailed-out crew. In an open field, only cover is the helicopter, which is bound to attract artillery/missiles. Or, do you run for the trees, across open ground, and potentially straight into the muzzles of an ambush?
I bet they were praying the Mi-24 they had with them saw them go in, and scooped them up quickly.
Date: 19/03/2022 19:55:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1862600
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
An interesting video of a Russian KA-52 helicopter doing low-level attacks around a runway, then it eventually gets hit and the pilot gets it on the ground quickly then they bail out. Doesn’t sound like anything too serious in the cockpit but the video shows a lot of damage on the LHS. I’m guessing they lost oil pressure on one engine, maybe fuel though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLa3fZD1vXs
Didn’t hear any alarm sounds like other helicopters make for e.g. loss of hydraulic pressure, but what do i know about the noises KA-52s make?
But, that is a good thing with helicopters. When you have to ‘crash land’, it usually involves descending more or less vertically. None of that ploughing into trees and wings shearing off etc.
Wouldn’t have been much fun for the bailed-out crew. In an open field, only cover is the helicopter, which is bound to attract artillery/missiles. Or, do you run for the trees, across open ground, and potentially straight into the muzzles of an ambush?
I bet they were praying the Mi-24 they had with them saw them go in, and scooped them up quickly.
Maybe they felt the loss of power?
Date: 19/03/2022 20:18:38
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862617
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I present the anger of a centre’left newspaper’s editorial writer:
…
Cancel Tchaikovsky, feel better about inaction against Putin: our pathetic culture war
Malcolm Knox
Journalist, author and columnist
March 19, 2022 — 5.00am
Vladimir Putin calculated that if he launched a real war, he would be taking on a Western world armed to the teeth for … a culture war. He was right.
As grizzled veterans know, culture wars follow an arc of rapid escalation of self-referential, impotent virtue-signalling and intolerance, devolving into progressively emptier gestures until someone jumps the shark. The attention span then wanders and a ceasefire ensues through boredom and fatigue.
The jumping of the shark has been the Cardiff Philharmonic Orchestra’s decision to cancel a performance of Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture this week and the potential Wimbledon cancelling of world No. 2 Daniil Medvedev.
A percussion section blasting out a Russian military victory, Tchaikovsky’s piece, to be performed in Wales, was deemed offensive to Ukrainians. Russia is thus the first country to be “cancelled”. Now that he is in the rogues’ gallery with J.K. Rowling, Kanye West and Dr Seuss, Putin will know just how serious we are.
The 1812 Overture is based on the Battle of Borodino, where Russia repelled Napoleon’s invasion. Borodino is not in Ukraine, but on the outskirts of Moscow. Rather than allow audiences to contemplate the historic paranoia and fear that drives Russian nationalism, a cultural body has chosen to feel better about itself and cancel Tchaikovsky. We’d better stop reading Tolstoy, Chekhov and Dostoevsky, who also threaten to help us understand the Russian psyche.
Given that it is unthinkable to confront this nuclear-armed bully, the West is frustrated and militarily impotent; we want to send the Ukrainian people every message of solidarity, short of actually defending them. Helplessness, victimhood, taking on a bully … now we have shifted the war to our preferred battlespace. Putin can no longer eat a Big Mac with a Coke, check out his Facebook page or watch Netflix on an iPhone. He is the object of ferociously humorous memes. That’ll learn him.
deo
We are prepared and unusually united for this culture war. Sharing a fate suffered by Harvey Weinstein and Prince Andrew, Putin is facing the full might of a West that hates him more unanimously than it hates COVID-19. This dictatorship of agreement has spread quickly to the bloodiest theatres of culture war, such as the sporting world, where Russia has been banned from team competitions. This might have as much impact as forcing Russian athletes to compete under the “Russian Olympic Committee” flag after awarding the 2014 winter games to Putin.
Individual Russian sportspeople are not cancelled, on the proviso that they condemn the invasion with a specific form of words that helps us feel better about our inaction. If Medvedev speaks these words, he can play. If he doesn’t, tennis will be virtuous and Medvedev will finally know what it’s like to walk in the shoes of Ellen de Generes.
Western corporations, fully weaponised for self-cleansing, are on the same page. We really are all victims of this, so let’s put a message on our website and make sure we’re not sourcing Russian products. Our customers are hurting too – at the rate of $2.29 a litre – so let’s cheerfully accept inflation as a sacrifice we are making for the Ukrainian cause. Our righteous corporations, by passing on their cost increases to their clients, are all Ukrainians now.
Nobody better represents the ferocity of the Australian gesture than our Prime Minister, whose cancel culture offensives against Putin have been truly stirring. “I call him a thug,” Scott Morrison said of Putin, who has clearly never recovered from Tony Abbott’s promise to “shirtfront” him after the downing of flight MH17. If only Morrison can extend this image of himself as a wartime leader to the May election. As he can’t trust our attention span to go that long, he might have to call in the nuclear option and ask Jenny to say something about Putin.
If trapping Putin in a quagmire of trolling that he is blocked from reading doesn’t stop the war, Australia and the West might edge reluctantly towards effectiveness. Putin is deaf to the West, following a rationality that is not so much non-existent as very peculiar to his own ends. If he listens to one external voice, it can only be that of his boss in Beijing.
In the first two months of this year, China increased its imports from Russia by 35.8 per cent and its exports to Russia by 41.5 per cent. Russia is China’s second biggest oil and coal supplier, and on the day Russia invaded Ukraine, China lifted eight-year-old bans on Russian wheat and grain imports. Their “no limits” pact aims at increasing trade from today’s $US147 billion to $US250 billion by 2024. Already Russia’s biggest, China is now its only substantial trade partner. Irrespective of whether it sends Russia military aid, China is paying for Putin’s war.
The West is now fretting about asking Mr Xi to ask Mr Putin to please stop. But just as Australia becomes potentially more relevant, it is suddenly less bellicose.
Australia could do something. China depends on Australian iron ore: 60 per cent of its imports of this fundamental resource come from us. Three Australian-based companies – Rio Tinto, BHP Billiton and Fortescue Metals – provide China with the bulk of its iron ore needs. Australia helps China which helps Putin. Oh dear.
The most prominent individual beneficiary of this trade, Andrew Forrest, has condemned the invasion, expressed sympathy with Ukrainians, pulled back on his Russian investments, and urged the switch from fossil fuels, such as Russia produces, to renewable energy. He hasn’t said much publicly about using the leverage of Australian iron ore to pressure Beijing to get Putin out of Ukraine. Rio Tinto is the first major miner to cut business ties with Russia, but continues to supply Russia’s paymaster. Morrison said we would be “in lockstep” with our allies when it came to petitioning China, but this lockstep only extends to synchronised statements, nothing that could hurt the federal budget.
Being potentially effective in ending the war, iron ore sanctions would have real consequences for Australia. Not as real as nuclear Armageddon, but more real than our preferred battleground of verbal abuse and cancellation, our comfort zone of onanistic microaggression. Is Australia up for real action against the real global bully? Yeah nah, maybe not, but here’s a killer Putin meme to share and thank God there’s no Russian Grand Prix this year.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/cancel-tchaikovsky-feel-better-about-inaction-against-putin-our-pathetic-culture-war-20220317-p5a5j2.html
Date: 19/03/2022 20:24:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862622
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
I present the anger of a centre’left newspaper’s editorial writer:
…
The jumping of the shark has been the Cardiff Philharmonic Orchestra’s decision to cancel a performance of Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture this week
Nah. Performing a piece celebrating a Russian military victory would have been in obvious poor taste at this particular time.
The “jumping of the shark” has been the OTT reaction from some numpties to this sensible decision.
Date: 19/03/2022 20:44:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862638
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
pity about economic wisdom
Date: 19/03/2022 21:06:40
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1862654
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 19/03/2022 21:29:24
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1862675
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Just started looking up Zelenskyy.
His life before politics was as an actor – yuk, another Ronald Reagan.
He named his political party the same as the hit TV soap opera he appears in, in order to save on campaign costs.
That said, he was a clear vote winner, with 73% of the total vote in the 2019 election. He won every seat cross the whole of Ukraine with two exceptions, the east with a large ethnic Russian population. And Lviv city centre which has a pro-European stance.
So far as I can tell from wikipedia, Zelenskyy’s party has no official political policies.
Date: 19/03/2022 21:31:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862679
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Just started looking up Zelenskyy.
His life before politics was as an actor – yuk, another Ronald Reagan.
He named his political party the same as the hit TV soap opera he appears in, in order to save on campaign costs.
That said, he was a clear vote winner, with 73% of the total vote in the 2019 election. He won every seat cross the whole of Ukraine with two exceptions, the east with a large ethnic Russian population. And Lviv city centre which has a pro-European stance.
So far as I can tell from wikipedia, Zelenskyy’s party has no official political policies.
Yet their performance and stances managed to piss off Putin to the point where he’d go to war.
Date: 19/03/2022 21:34:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862691
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
mollwollfumble said:
Just started looking up Zelenskyy.
His life before politics was as an actor – yuk, another Ronald Reagan.
He named his political party the same as the hit TV soap opera he appears in, in order to save on campaign costs.
That said, he was a clear vote winner, with 73% of the total vote in the 2019 election. He won every seat cross the whole of Ukraine with two exceptions, the east with a large ethnic Russian population. And Lviv city centre which has a pro-European stance.
So far as I can tell from wikipedia, Zelenskyy’s party has no official political policies.
Yet their performance and stances managed to piss off Putin to the point where he’d go to war.
was it a reaction to something recent or was it just an attempt to exploit “convenient” timing
Date: 19/03/2022 21:34:55
From: buffy
ID: 1862692
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Just started looking up Zelenskyy.
His life before politics was as an actor – yuk, another Ronald Reagan.
He named his political party the same as the hit TV soap opera he appears in, in order to save on campaign costs.
That said, he was a clear vote winner, with 73% of the total vote in the 2019 election. He won every seat cross the whole of Ukraine with two exceptions, the east with a large ethnic Russian population. And Lviv city centre which has a pro-European stance.
So far as I can tell from wikipedia, Zelenskyy’s party has no official political policies.
I think he’s trained as a lawyer, and then went into acting. Not unlike some Australian comedians.
Date: 19/03/2022 21:51:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862702
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
was it a reaction to something recent or was it just an attempt to exploit “convenient” timing
Putin has, for a long time, regretted the ‘collapse of the Soviet Union’.
He aches for the days when a word from Moscow held sway from East Berlin and Warsaw all the way to the Chukchi Peninsula.
He also recognises that, without the various talents and contributions from the various countries that made up the Soviet empire, Russia is a much poorer place.
As Russia can’t really afford to buy those contributions and talents, he sees force as the only way to restore Russia’s capabilities and standing.
So, he uses the European-looking attitude of Ukraine, and the possibility of it joining NATO, as pretexts to begin his campaign of forcible recovery of some of that empire.
The ‘NATO-on-our-doorstep’ thing is total bullshit, as Norway, which has been in NATO since 1949, has a land border with Russia, as do Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania (joined 2004). And Alaska is just 4.8 km away (Big Diomede and Little Diomede Islands). (Belarus – you’re next.)
And Ukraine was just an embarrassment to him. It was doing quite ok, thank you, being rather culturally similar to Russia, but with genuinely functioning elections and political processes, social and diplomatic agendas which addressed its own needs, without being hobbled by an oligarchic kleptocracy.
So, it just had to go, as he saw it.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:04:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1862705
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
was it a reaction to something recent or was it just an attempt to exploit “convenient” timing
Putin has, for a long time, regretted the ‘collapse of the Soviet Union’.
He aches for the days when a word from Moscow held sway from East Berlin and Warsaw all the way to the Chukchi Peninsula.
He also recognises that, without the various talents and contributions from the various countries that made up the Soviet empire, Russia is a much poorer place.
As Russia can’t really afford to buy those contributions and talents, he sees force as the only way to restore Russia’s capabilities and standing.
So, he uses the European-looking attitude of Ukraine, and the possibility of it joining NATO, as pretexts to begin his campaign of forcible recovery of some of that empire.
The ‘NATO-on-our-doorstep’ thing is total bullshit, as Norway, which has been in NATO since 1949, has a land border with Russia, as do Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania (joined 2004). And Alaska is just 4.8 km away (Big Diomede and Little Diomede Islands). (Belarus – you’re next.)
And Ukraine was just an embarrassment to him. It was doing quite ok, thank you, being rather culturally similar to Russia, but with genuinely functioning elections and political processes, social and diplomatic agendas which addressed its own needs, without being hobbled by an oligarchic kleptocracy.
So, it just had to go, as he saw it.
It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attactive option.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:15:09
From: sibeen
ID: 1862708
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
was it a reaction to something recent or was it just an attempt to exploit “convenient” timing
Putin has, for a long time, regretted the ‘collapse of the Soviet Union’.
He aches for the days when a word from Moscow held sway from East Berlin and Warsaw all the way to the Chukchi Peninsula.
He also recognises that, without the various talents and contributions from the various countries that made up the Soviet empire, Russia is a much poorer place.
As Russia can’t really afford to buy those contributions and talents, he sees force as the only way to restore Russia’s capabilities and standing.
So, he uses the European-looking attitude of Ukraine, and the possibility of it joining NATO, as pretexts to begin his campaign of forcible recovery of some of that empire.
The ‘NATO-on-our-doorstep’ thing is total bullshit, as Norway, which has been in NATO since 1949, has a land border with Russia, as do Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania (joined 2004). And Alaska is just 4.8 km away (Big Diomede and Little Diomede Islands). (Belarus – you’re next.)
And Ukraine was just an embarrassment to him. It was doing quite ok, thank you, being rather culturally similar to Russia, but with genuinely functioning elections and political processes, social and diplomatic agendas which addressed its own needs, without being hobbled by an oligarchic kleptocracy.
So, it just had to go, as he saw it.
It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attactive option.
I don’t think the rest of the world stopped them going down that route, and in fact would have been very happy for them to go that way. They fucked themselves in the early 90s and have doubled down ever since.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:20:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862709
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia is a strange amalgam of peoples and ethnicities. Officially the “Russian Federation’ is made up of over 80 self-governing entities under the suzerainty of the ethnic Russian majority who live primarily in the far west of its territory. It’s been like that nearly 300 years. It is still an empire of a sort. The closest approximation would be the PRC which rules over a similar range of territory and peoples largely following the territory of the Manchu Qing Dynasty at its height but far-flung territories like Xinjiang have been part of China for various periods dating back 2000 years. China used to govern what is now Mongolia while Manchuria first ruled Imperial China and subsequently became a vassal territory of China following the establishment of the Republic of China.
In a way the political development of Russia has followed a different path to western nation-states and the typical rules of nationalism and ethnicity don’t really apply.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:20:43
From: dv
ID: 1862710
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
Putin has, for a long time, regretted the ‘collapse of the Soviet Union’.
He aches for the days when a word from Moscow held sway from East Berlin and Warsaw all the way to the Chukchi Peninsula.
He also recognises that, without the various talents and contributions from the various countries that made up the Soviet empire, Russia is a much poorer place.
As Russia can’t really afford to buy those contributions and talents, he sees force as the only way to restore Russia’s capabilities and standing.
So, he uses the European-looking attitude of Ukraine, and the possibility of it joining NATO, as pretexts to begin his campaign of forcible recovery of some of that empire.
The ‘NATO-on-our-doorstep’ thing is total bullshit, as Norway, which has been in NATO since 1949, has a land border with Russia, as do Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania (joined 2004). And Alaska is just 4.8 km away (Big Diomede and Little Diomede Islands). (Belarus – you’re next.)
And Ukraine was just an embarrassment to him. It was doing quite ok, thank you, being rather culturally similar to Russia, but with genuinely functioning elections and political processes, social and diplomatic agendas which addressed its own needs, without being hobbled by an oligarchic kleptocracy.
So, it just had to go, as he saw it.
It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attactive option.
I don’t think the rest of the world stopped them going down that route, and in fact would have been very happy for them to go that way. They fucked themselves in the early 90s and have doubled down ever since.
I mean that was the plan. Everyone was very optimistic.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:24:10
From: dv
ID: 1862711
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Russia is a strange amalgam of peoples and ethnicities. Officially the “Russian Federation’ is made up of over 80 self-governing entities under the suzerainty of the ethnic Russian majority who live primarily in the far west of its territory. It’s been like that nearly 300 years. It is still an empire of a sort. The closest approximation would be the PRC which rules over a similar range of territory and peoples largely following the territory of the Manchu Qing Dynasty at its height but far-flung territories like Xinjiang have been part of China for various periods dating back 2000 years. China used to govern what is now Mongolia while Manchuria first ruled Imperial China and subsequently became a vassal territory of China following the establishment of the Republic of China.
In a way the political development of Russia has followed a different path to western nation-states and the typical rules of nationalism and ethnicity don’t really apply.
It’s the one European power that still has its Empire. Maybe they’d be happier if they just went back to their 1580 boundaries.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:37:41
From: party_pants
ID: 1862715
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attactive option.
I don’t think the rest of the world stopped them going down that route, and in fact would have been very happy for them to go that way. They fucked themselves in the early 90s and have doubled down ever since.
I mean that was the plan. Everyone was very optimistic.
Quite.
Everyone was also willing to accept Ukraine taking this path alone. Hence the current situation.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:40:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862718
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attactive option.
Apparently it wasn’t considered by the Russians to be an option.
They can’t seem to grasp that they don’t have to live under criminal elitist pseudo-political governments,
Date: 19/03/2022 22:42:27
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1862719
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
> It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attractive option.
America needed a country to hate in order to keep their weapons exports up,
And the Arabic countries are no longer a sufficient challenge.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:45:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862721
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
> It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attractive option.
America needed a country to hate in order to keep their weapons exports up,
And the Arabic countries are no longer a sufficient challenge.
Russia, China, and North Korea have a similar need, and for very much the same reasons of justifying their military expenditures. So, they’re quite happy to have the US to fill the role of bogeyman.
Date: 19/03/2022 22:46:39
From: party_pants
ID: 1862722
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attactive option.
Apparently it wasn’t considered by the Russians to be an option.
They can’t seem to grasp that they don’t have to live under criminal elitist pseudo-political governments,
They have never been a free people. Serfdom persisted until the 1860s, and then the abolition and transition process was stuffed up. A couple of generations later you got the revolution and communism. Then in the 1990s the abolition and transition process got stuffed up. And here we are today.
Date: 19/03/2022 23:05:00
From: dv
ID: 1862723
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
mollwollfumble said:
> It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attractive option.
America needed a country to hate in order to keep their weapons exports up,
And the Arabic countries are no longer a sufficient challenge.
Russia, China, and North Korea have a similar need, and for very much the same reasons of justifying their military expenditures. So, they’re quite happy to have the US to fill the role of bogeyman.
OTOH China is kept burning through fast economic growth. NK has an extreme control of information that would be impossible in Russia. If there was anywhere that would be looking towards the European model you’d think it would be Russia. I mean the three former USSR republics that joined the EU and NATO are doing quite well for themselves.
Date: 19/03/2022 23:13:09
From: party_pants
ID: 1862724
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
mollwollfumble said:
> It is a shame that just having Russia being an ordinary democratic country with a market economy integrated peacefully into trade with the rest of Europe (and the world) was not considered an attractive option.
America needed a country to hate in order to keep their weapons exports up,
And the Arabic countries are no longer a sufficient challenge.
Russia, China, and North Korea have a similar need, and for very much the same reasons of justifying their military expenditures. So, they’re quite happy to have the US to fill the role of bogeyman.
OTOH China is kept burning through fast economic growth. NK has an extreme control of information that would be impossible in Russia. If there was anywhere that would be looking towards the European model you’d think it would be Russia. I mean the three former USSR republics that joined the EU and NATO are doing quite well for themselves.
The problem is that ex-KGB boomers like Putin form the elite of Russian government and administration. They still regard the EU and NATO as enemies. They can’t let go and see their country join the enemy. It seems to be totally ingrained in them, to the core of their being.
Date: 20/03/2022 00:29:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862730
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
at least there’s this

Date: 20/03/2022 02:10:05
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862737
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Four US marines have died after their Osprey aircraft crashed in a Norwegian town in the Arctic Circle during a NATO exercise unrelated to the Ukraine war, authorities say. The marines were taking part in a NATO exercise called Cold Response.
The annual NATO drills in Norway are unrelated to the war in Ukraine. This year they include around 30,000 troops, 220 aircraft and 50 vessels from 27 countries. Non-NATO members Finland and Sweden are also participating.
Date: 20/03/2022 03:44:19
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862740
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Good Guy Putin Stabilises Western Europe
The French President rides the Zelenksy train as his far-right opponents struggle to avoid accusations of being Putin’s poodles.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/as-macron-adopts-zelensky-s-look-his-opponents-are-haunted-by-their-pro-putin-past-20220319-p5a62d.html
It was going to be a fractious campaign dominated by far-right talking points on immigration, identity and security. But the French election race changed overnight when Russia invaded Ukraine. The war has given President Emmanuel Macron, who was already leading in the polls, a commanding lead – he has leapt to 30 per cent approval since the invasion, 13 points ahead of his nearest rival, Marine Le Pen.
Date: 20/03/2022 05:17:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862745
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
mollwollfumble said:
Just started looking up Zelenskyy.
His life before politics was as an actor – yuk, another Ronald Reagan.
He named his political party the same as the hit TV soap opera he appears in, in order to save on campaign costs.
That said, he was a clear vote winner, with 73% of the total vote in the 2019 election. He won every seat cross the whole of Ukraine with two exceptions, the east with a large ethnic Russian population. And Lviv city centre which has a pro-European stance.
So far as I can tell from wikipedia, Zelenskyy’s party has no official political policies.
Yet their performance and stances managed to piss off Putin to the point where he’d go to war.
Piano peniuses
Date: 20/03/2022 07:44:02
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1862753
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
mollwollfumble said:
Just started looking up Zelenskyy.
His life before politics was as an actor – yuk, another Ronald Reagan.
He named his political party the same as the hit TV soap opera he appears in, in order to save on campaign costs.
That said, he was a clear vote winner, with 73% of the total vote in the 2019 election. He won every seat cross the whole of Ukraine with two exceptions, the east with a large ethnic Russian population. And Lviv city centre which has a pro-European stance.
So far as I can tell from wikipedia, Zelenskyy’s party has no official political policies.
Yet their performance and stances managed to piss off Putin to the point where he’d go to war.
Piano peniuses
Yeah it is supposed to be trauma + time = comedy rather than comedy +time = trauma(war)
Date: 20/03/2022 08:29:12
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862760
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelansky can do something poo tin can’t. He can play the piano with his penis.
Date: 20/03/2022 10:08:54
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862774
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 20/03/2022 10:13:30
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862775
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

Kukuyama is a bit of an eternal optimist.
Date: 20/03/2022 10:14:10
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862776
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

He’s certainly an optimist.
Date: 20/03/2022 10:33:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862784
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:

Kukuyama is a bit of an eternal optimist.
3. Optimism
Date: 20/03/2022 10:41:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862790
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:

He’s certainly an optimist.
It’s going to be a matter of whose morale cracks first.
The Ukrainians obviously know just how bad it is. How logn can they stand it?
Doesn’t look like the Russians really have any idea of it. They’re being fed a lot of codswallop about it, and probably have little idea of what price Russia is paying.
Whether their gung-ho attitude will hold up after the stream of maimed Russian soldiers and the families of those killed in action inevitably begin to leak out the truth of the situation is something that will take time to determine.
Date: 20/03/2022 10:56:32
From: dv
ID: 1862792
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60809454
Ukraine war: Boris Johnson sparks fury after comparison to Brexit
Boris Johnson has been criticised for comparing the struggle of Ukrainians fighting Russia’s invasion to people in Britain voting for Brexit.
In a speech he said Britons, like Ukrainians, had the instinct “to choose freedom” and cited the 2016 vote to leave the EU as a “recent example”.
Conservative peer Lord Barwell said the referendum wasn’t “comparable with risking your life” in a war.
And Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey said it was an “insult” to Ukrainians.
Addressing the Conservative party’s spring conference in Blackpool earlier, the prime minister said: “I know that it’s the instinct of the people of this country, like the people of Ukraine, to choose freedom, every time.
“I can give you a couple of famous recent examples.
“When the British people voted for Brexit in such large, large numbers, I don’t believe it was because they were remotely hostile to foreigners.
“It’s because they wanted to be free to do things differently and for this country to be able to run itself.”
Mr Johnson also cited as an example British people choosing to get vaccinated against coronavirus because they “wanted to get on with their lives” and “were fed up with being told what to do by people like me”.
Lord Barwell, who served as Theresa May’s chief of staff in No 10, said: “Apart from the bit where voting in a free and fair referendum isn’t in any way comparable with risking your life to defend your country against invasion, and the awkward fact the Ukrainians are fighting for the freedom to join the EU, this comparison is bang on.”
Ukraine applied for fast-track membership of the European Union last month, shortly after the Russian invasion.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Friday he had spoken to the head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen and expected progress to be made on its application in the coming months.
Meanwhile, the Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey called the prime minister a “national embarrassment”, adding: “To compare a referendum to women and children fleeing Putin’s bombs is an insult to every Ukrainian.
“He is no Churchill: he is Basil Fawlty.”
The SNP’s Westminster leader Ian Blackford branded the comparison “crass and distasteful” and said his comments showed how “dangerously observed” the Conservatives were with Brexit.

Date: 20/03/2022 11:03:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862793
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60809454
Ukraine war: Boris Johnson sparks fury after comparison to Brexit
Boris Johnson has been criticised for comparing the struggle of Ukrainians fighting Russia’s invasion to people in Britain voting for Brexit.
In a speech he said Britons, like Ukrainians, had the instinct “to choose freedom” and cited the 2016 vote to leave the EU as a “recent example”.
Conservative peer Lord Barwell said the referendum wasn’t “comparable with risking your life” in a war.
And Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey said it was an “insult” to Ukrainians.
Addressing the Conservative party’s spring conference in Blackpool earlier, the prime minister said: “I know that it’s the instinct of the people of this country, like the people of Ukraine, to choose freedom, every time.
“I can give you a couple of famous recent examples.
“When the British people voted for Brexit in such large, large numbers, I don’t believe it was because they were remotely hostile to foreigners.
“It’s because they wanted to be free to do things differently and for this country to be able to run itself.”
Mr Johnson also cited as an example British people choosing to get vaccinated against coronavirus because they “wanted to get on with their lives” and “were fed up with being told what to do by people like me”.
Lord Barwell, who served as Theresa May’s chief of staff in No 10, said: “Apart from the bit where voting in a free and fair referendum isn’t in any way comparable with risking your life to defend your country against invasion, and the awkward fact the Ukrainians are fighting for the freedom to join the EU, this comparison is bang on.”
Ukraine applied for fast-track membership of the European Union last month, shortly after the Russian invasion.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Friday he had spoken to the head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen and expected progress to be made on its application in the coming months.
Meanwhile, the Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey called the prime minister a “national embarrassment”, adding: “To compare a referendum to women and children fleeing Putin’s bombs is an insult to every Ukrainian.
“He is no Churchill: he is Basil Fawlty.”
The SNP’s Westminster leader Ian Blackford branded the comparison “crass and distasteful” and said his comments showed how “dangerously observed” the Conservatives were with Brexit.

Surely Donbas was more comparable ¿
Date: 20/03/2022 11:05:49
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Hah!
Date: 20/03/2022 11:34:03
From: party_pants
ID: 1862796
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:

He’s certainly an optimist.
It’s going to be a matter of whose morale cracks first.
The Ukrainians obviously know just how bad it is. How logn can they stand it?
Doesn’t look like the Russians really have any idea of it. They’re being fed a lot of codswallop about it, and probably have little idea of what price Russia is paying.
Whether their gung-ho attitude will hold up after the stream of maimed Russian soldiers and the families of those killed in action inevitably begin to leak out the truth of the situation is something that will take time to determine.
Russia cannot win. Even if they win the war they cannot now make Ukraine part of Russia in a cultural sense. The war is forging a distinct Ukrainian identity against Russia through the shared experience and suffering. Russia cannot hold Ukraine.
Date: 20/03/2022 11:35:41
From: party_pants
ID: 1862797
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60809454
Ukraine war: Boris Johnson sparks fury after comparison to Brexit
Boris Johnson has been criticised for comparing the struggle of Ukrainians fighting Russia’s invasion to people in Britain voting for Brexit.
In a speech he said Britons, like Ukrainians, had the instinct “to choose freedom” and cited the 2016 vote to leave the EU as a “recent example”.
Conservative peer Lord Barwell said the referendum wasn’t “comparable with risking your life” in a war.
And Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey said it was an “insult” to Ukrainians.
Addressing the Conservative party’s spring conference in Blackpool earlier, the prime minister said: “I know that it’s the instinct of the people of this country, like the people of Ukraine, to choose freedom, every time.
“I can give you a couple of famous recent examples.
“When the British people voted for Brexit in such large, large numbers, I don’t believe it was because they were remotely hostile to foreigners.
“It’s because they wanted to be free to do things differently and for this country to be able to run itself.”
Mr Johnson also cited as an example British people choosing to get vaccinated against coronavirus because they “wanted to get on with their lives” and “were fed up with being told what to do by people like me”.
Lord Barwell, who served as Theresa May’s chief of staff in No 10, said: “Apart from the bit where voting in a free and fair referendum isn’t in any way comparable with risking your life to defend your country against invasion, and the awkward fact the Ukrainians are fighting for the freedom to join the EU, this comparison is bang on.”
Ukraine applied for fast-track membership of the European Union last month, shortly after the Russian invasion.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Friday he had spoken to the head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen and expected progress to be made on its application in the coming months.
Meanwhile, the Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey called the prime minister a “national embarrassment”, adding: “To compare a referendum to women and children fleeing Putin’s bombs is an insult to every Ukrainian.
“He is no Churchill: he is Basil Fawlty.”
The SNP’s Westminster leader Ian Blackford branded the comparison “crass and distasteful” and said his comments showed how “dangerously observed” the Conservatives were with Brexit.

dangerously obsessed ??
Date: 20/03/2022 11:37:48
From: Tamb
ID: 1862798
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
He’s certainly an optimist.
It’s going to be a matter of whose morale cracks first.
The Ukrainians obviously know just how bad it is. How logn can they stand it?
Doesn’t look like the Russians really have any idea of it. They’re being fed a lot of codswallop about it, and probably have little idea of what price Russia is paying.
Whether their gung-ho attitude will hold up after the stream of maimed Russian soldiers and the families of those killed in action inevitably begin to leak out the truth of the situation is something that will take time to determine.
Russia cannot win. Even if they win the war they cannot now make Ukraine part of Russia in a cultural sense. The war is forging a distinct Ukrainian identity against Russia through the shared experience and suffering. Russia cannot hold Ukraine.
In
WWII the Russians sacrificed their troops without hesitation and continued to do so by conscription.
Date: 20/03/2022 11:38:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862800
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
He’s certainly an optimist.
It’s going to be a matter of whose morale cracks first.
The Ukrainians obviously know just how bad it is. How logn can they stand it?
Doesn’t look like the Russians really have any idea of it. They’re being fed a lot of codswallop about it, and probably have little idea of what price Russia is paying.
Whether their gung-ho attitude will hold up after the stream of maimed Russian soldiers and the families of those killed in action inevitably begin to leak out the truth of the situation is something that will take time to determine.
Russia cannot win. Even if they win the war they cannot now make Ukraine part of Russia in a cultural sense. The war is forging a distinct Ukrainian identity against Russia through the shared experience and suffering. Russia cannot hold Ukraine.
Aye.
Date: 20/03/2022 11:45:48
From: party_pants
ID: 1862805
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
It’s going to be a matter of whose morale cracks first.
The Ukrainians obviously know just how bad it is. How logn can they stand it?
Doesn’t look like the Russians really have any idea of it. They’re being fed a lot of codswallop about it, and probably have little idea of what price Russia is paying.
Whether their gung-ho attitude will hold up after the stream of maimed Russian soldiers and the families of those killed in action inevitably begin to leak out the truth of the situation is something that will take time to determine.
Russia cannot win. Even if they win the war they cannot now make Ukraine part of Russia in a cultural sense. The war is forging a distinct Ukrainian identity against Russia through the shared experience and suffering. Russia cannot hold Ukraine.
In WWII the Russians sacrificed their troops without hesitation and continued to do so by conscription.
They cannot achieve their aim of uniting Ukraine with Russia and pretending they are all part of one big happy family.
Date: 20/03/2022 11:53:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862807
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
They cannot achieve their aim of uniting Ukraine with Russia and pretending they are all part of one big happy family.
No. Even if they win, the Russians will be an army of occupation.
As i suggested earlier, armies of occupation often ‘outstay their welcome’. The occupied may be powerless to resist them at first, or might even welcome them and the regime change and stability that they bring, depending on the conflict.
But, eventually, the occupied tire of being the subjugated colony of the occupiers, and begin to push for their independence. Some will be content to wait for small weaknesses to appear in the occupying country’s resolve and to negotiate more freedoms, others will be more impatient and will push by any means, including violence and insurrection.
Russia might take Ukraine, but it’s going to slowly bleed them if they try to keep hold of it.
Date: 20/03/2022 11:55:49
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862808
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Basically, ‘how you gonna keep ‘em down on the wheat farm, now that they’ve seen that they could be like Paree?’.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:02:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
weren’t there parts of Ukraine that were full of separatists
Date: 20/03/2022 12:05:47
From: dv
ID: 1862816
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
weren’t there parts of Ukraine that were full of separatists
Donetsk and Luhansk had tens of thousands of separatists plus thousands of Russians.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:07:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862817
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine and Russia produce about one-third of the world’s wheat exports. However, with Ukraine’s ports under siege and Ukrainian farmers forced to leave their fields to fight, major disruptions are expected in the supply chain.
Indonesia Consumers Association president Tulus Abadi said the country’s 270 million people should expect the price of noodles to rise. “This has to be anticipated because the chicken noodle or instant noodle that we eat, 100 per cent of their ingredients are imported,” Mr Abadi said during a public webinar this month.
—
note that they also claim that instant noodles are Australia favourite food but we can’t remember the last time we had any
still, we’re not in university at the moment so who knows
Date: 20/03/2022 12:12:13
From: sibeen
ID: 1862820
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Australia has banned the sale of alumina and aluminium ores to Russia in response to what it described as “unrelenting and illegal aggression” towards Ukraine, reports Christopher Knaus.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:14:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862822
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Australia has banned the sale of alumina and aluminium ores to Russia in response to what it described as “unrelenting and illegal aggression” towards Ukraine, reports Christopher Knaus.
No more beer cans for Russia.
This just got serious.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:17:51
From: dv
ID: 1862827
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
Date: 20/03/2022 12:19:54
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862830
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
No i just think the Republican Party has become a mockery of its former self.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:20:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862831
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s quite surreal. Not that long ago only the looniest of the loony left sided with Russia and called NATO “Nazis”.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:20:25
From: Michael V
ID: 1862832
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
Yes.
Ref: Occam’s Razor.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:22:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862835
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s also the ‘anything for a headline, no such thing as bad publicity’ thing.
Gotta keep the name in view so the party remembers you when the next round of nominations comes up.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:24:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862839
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 20/03/2022 12:25:09
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862840
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
Yes.
Ref: Occam’s Razor.
No.
Ref: “getting to” part.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:33:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862849
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
No i just think the Republican Party has become a mockery of its former self.
Stephanie Grisham said the former president feared and admired Russian President Vladimir Putin. Appearing on “The View,” the former White House press secretary said Trump “loved the dictators.” Grisham added that Trump also “wanted to be able to kill whoever spoke out against him.”
https://www.businessinsider.com/stephanie-grisham-trump-admired-putin-loved-dictators-2022-3
Former White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said on Tuesday that former President Donald Trump both feared and admired Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“Honestly, I think he feared him. I think he was afraid of him. I think the man intimidated him,” Grisham said during an appearance on “The View,” when asked about Trump’s impression of Putin.
“I also think he admired him greatly,” Grisham said. “I think he wanted to be able to kill whoever spoke out against him.”
“In my experience with him, again, I’ll just say — he loved the dictators. He loved the people who could kill anyone, including the press,” she added. In 2017, The Washington Post reported on 10 vocal critics of Putin who had died violently or under suspicious circumstances.
Grisham also slammed Trump, positing that he would be hiding instead of fighting for his country if he were in a similar situation as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. The Ukrainian leader has won widespread admiration for his decision to remain in Ukraine amid Russia’s invasion, as well as his bold speeches directed at Putin and Moscow.
“I just want to say this. In watching all of this, with Zelenskyy — Donald Trump would be 57 feet below ground hiding. And Zelenskyy is out there fighting for his country, and I just think that’s great,” Grisham said.
Grisham is one of the dozens of former Trump officials looking to thwart their former boss during the 2022 midterm elections and the 2024 presidential race.
Trump previously lauded Putin’s justification for invading Ukraine as “savvy” and “genius.” On February 24, the day before Russia invaded Ukraine, he released a statement on Twitter — via his spokeswoman Liz Harrington — claiming that Putin was “playing Biden like a drum.”
Trump also praised other authoritarian leaders, such as North Korea’s Kim Jong Un, during his time in office.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:34:43
From: party_pants
ID: 1862850
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Australia has banned the sale of alumina and aluminium ores to Russia in response to what it described as “unrelenting and illegal aggression” towards Ukraine, reports Christopher Knaus.
No more beer cans for Russia.
This just got serious.
Do Russians drink beer?
Date: 20/03/2022 12:36:09
From: party_pants
ID: 1862851
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
Yes. Along with the likes of The Proud Boys and various far right culture wars commentators.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:37:22
From: Woodie
ID: 1862854
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
How long will the 70,000 tons of coal last in Ukrainia’s power stations?
Date: 20/03/2022 12:38:12
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862855
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Australia has banned the sale of alumina and aluminium ores to Russia in response to what it described as “unrelenting and illegal aggression” towards Ukraine, reports Christopher Knaus.
No more beer cans for Russia.
This just got serious.
Do Russians drink beer?
For breakfast.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:38:19
From: dv
ID: 1862856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Australia has banned the sale of alumina and aluminium ores to Russia in response to what it described as “unrelenting and illegal aggression” towards Ukraine, reports Christopher Knaus.
No more beer cans for Russia.
This just got serious.
Do Russians drink beer?
yes
Date: 20/03/2022 12:38:54
From: Tamb
ID: 1862858
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Australia has banned the sale of alumina and aluminium ores to Russia in response to what it described as “unrelenting and illegal aggression” towards Ukraine, reports Christopher Knaus.
No more beer cans for Russia.
This just got serious.
Do Russians drink beer?
Yes. The first words of Russian I learned was “Two bottles of beer please”
Date: 20/03/2022 12:40:23
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862860
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Australia has banned the sale of alumina and aluminium ores to Russia in response to what it described as “unrelenting and illegal aggression” towards Ukraine, reports Christopher Knaus.
No more beer cans for Russia.
This just got serious.
Do Russians drink beer?
They’re drinking more beer and less spirits than they used to.
For a long time they didn’t really consider drinking beer “drinking” in an alcoholic sense.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:40:40
From: Tamb
ID: 1862862
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
How long will the 70,000 tons of coal last in Ukrainia’s power stations?
Approximately 500kg per megawatt hour.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:41:14
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862863
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s also the ‘anything for a headline, no such thing as bad publicity’ thing.
Gotta keep the name in view so the party remembers you when the next round of nominations comes up.
And make sure to mention Jewish space lasers to your constituents.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:46:36
From: Woodie
ID: 1862866
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Woodie said:
How long will the 70,000 tons of coal last in Ukrainia’s power stations?
Approximately 500kg per megawatt hour.
So a cuppla days, then.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:46:42
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862867
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s quite surreal. Not that long ago only the looniest of the loony left sided with Russia and called NATO “Nazis”.
Indeed, our interpretation would be more like the simplest explanation has shifted from “balance of probabilities” to “beyond reasonable doubt” but we’re not Charles Christian and we’re certainly not Rudolph William Louis.
Date: 20/03/2022 12:51:31
From: Tamb
ID: 1862872
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s quite surreal. Not that long ago only the looniest of the loony left sided with Russia and called NATO “Nazis”.
Indeed, our interpretation would be more like the simplest explanation has shifted from “balance of probabilities” to “beyond reasonable doubt” but we’re not Charles Christian and we’re certainly not Rudolph William Louis.
The 70s South Africans said the Pope was a communist.
Date: 20/03/2022 13:01:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862880
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s a bit ironic that the republicans support pootin against neo-nazis when they are the very people who smashed their way into the white house.
Date: 20/03/2022 13:27:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862898
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The gulags await:
Mariupol City Council says residents are being taken to Russia
Residents of Mariupol, which is being continuously bombed by Russia, have been taken to Russia over the last week, the Mariupol city council is reporting.
The council said that “several thousand Mariupol residents were deported to Russia. The occupiers illegally removed people from the Left Bank district and shelters in the building of the sports club, where more than a thousand people (mostly women and children) were hiding from constant bombing,” the statement reads.
The council said that the residents were taken to “filtration camps, where occupiers checked people’s phones and documents”. After, residents were “redirected to remote cities in Russia, the fate of other remain unknown”.
Guardian Live
Date: 20/03/2022 13:45:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1862904
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
The gulags await:
Mariupol City Council says residents are being taken to Russia
Residents of Mariupol, which is being continuously bombed by Russia, have been taken to Russia over the last week, the Mariupol city council is reporting.
The council said that “several thousand Mariupol residents were deported to Russia. The occupiers illegally removed people from the Left Bank district and shelters in the building of the sports club, where more than a thousand people (mostly women and children) were hiding from constant bombing,” the statement reads.
The council said that the residents were taken to “filtration camps, where occupiers checked people’s phones and documents”. After, residents were “redirected to remote cities in Russia, the fate of other remain unknown”.
Guardian Live
Hostages.
Date: 20/03/2022 13:50:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1862907
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
The gulags await:
Mariupol City Council says residents are being taken to Russia
Residents of Mariupol, which is being continuously bombed by Russia, have been taken to Russia over the last week, the Mariupol city council is reporting.
The council said that “several thousand Mariupol residents were deported to Russia. The occupiers illegally removed people from the Left Bank district and shelters in the building of the sports club, where more than a thousand people (mostly women and children) were hiding from constant bombing,” the statement reads.
The council said that the residents were taken to “filtration camps, where occupiers checked people’s phones and documents”. After, residents were “redirected to remote cities in Russia, the fate of other remain unknown”.
Guardian Live
Hostages.
They’ll probably torture them and parade them on TV as Ukrainians for the Russian war effort.
Date: 20/03/2022 14:18:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862912
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ISW verdict so far:
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MARCH 19
Mar 19, 2022 – Press ISW
Download the PDF
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 19
Frederick W. Kagan, George Barros, and Kateryna Stepanenko
March 19, 3 pm ET
Ukrainian forces have defeated the initial Russian campaign of this war. That campaign aimed to conduct airborne and mechanized operations to seize Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, and other major Ukrainian cities to force a change of government in Ukraine. That campaign has culminated. Russian forces continue to make limited advances in some parts of the theater but are very unlikely to be able to seize their objectives in this way. The doctrinally sound Russian response to this situation would be to end this campaign, accept a possibly lengthy operational pause, develop the plan for a new campaign, build up resources for that new campaign, and launch it when the resources and other conditions are ready. The Russian military has not yet adopted this approach. It is instead continuing to feed small collections of reinforcements into an ongoing effort to keep the current campaign alive. We assess that that effort will fail.
…..Key Takeaways:
We now assess that the initial Russian campaign to seize Ukraine’s capital and major cities and force regime change has failed;
Russian forces continue efforts to restore momentum to this culminated campaign, but those efforts will likely also fail;
Russian troops will continue trying to advance to within effective artillery range of the center of Kyiv, but prospects for their success are unclear;
The war will likely descend into a phase of bloody stalemate that could last for weeks or months;
Russia will expand efforts to bombard Ukrainian civilians in order to break Ukrainians’ will to continue fighting (at which the Russians will likely fail);
The most dangerous current Russian advance is from Kherson north toward Kryvyi Rih in an effort to isolate Zaporizhiya and Dnipro from the west. Russian forces are unlikely to be able to surround or take Kryvyi Rih in the coming days, and may not be able to do so at all without massing much larger forces for the effort than they now have available on that axis;
The Russians appear to have abandoned plans to attack Odesa at least in the near term.
Full Report
Date: 20/03/2022 14:28:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862916
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The ultimate fall of Mariupol is increasingly unlikely to free up enough Russian combat power to change the outcome of the initial campaign dramatically. Russian forces concentrated considerable combat power around Mariupol drawn from the 8th Combined Arms Army to the east and from the group of Russian forces in Crimea to the west. Had the Russians taken Mariupol quickly or with relatively few losses they would likely have been able to move enough combat power west toward Zaporizhiya and Dnipro to threaten those cities. The protracted siege of Mariupol is seriously weakening Russian forces on that axis, however. The confirmed death of the commander of the Russian 150th Motorized Rifle Division likely indicates the scale of the damage Ukrainian defenders are inflicting on those formations. The block-by-block fighting in Mariupol itself is costing the Russian military time, initiative, and combat power. If and when Mariupol ultimately falls the Russian forces now besieging it may not be strong enough to change the course of the campaign dramatically by attacking to the west.
Typical Ukrainian resistance in Mariupol: Russian tanks entering the city destroyed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2IjCh4×03s
Date: 20/03/2022 14:33:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862920
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
The ultimate fall of Mariupol is increasingly unlikely to free up enough Russian combat power to change the outcome of the initial campaign dramatically. Russian forces concentrated considerable combat power around Mariupol drawn from the 8th Combined Arms Army to the east and from the group of Russian forces in Crimea to the west. Had the Russians taken Mariupol quickly or with relatively few losses they would likely have been able to move enough combat power west toward Zaporizhiya and Dnipro to threaten those cities. The protracted siege of Mariupol is seriously weakening Russian forces on that axis, however. The confirmed death of the commander of the Russian 150th Motorized Rifle Division likely indicates the scale of the damage Ukrainian defenders are inflicting on those formations. The block-by-block fighting in Mariupol itself is costing the Russian military time, initiative, and combat power. If and when Mariupol ultimately falls the Russian forces now besieging it may not be strong enough to change the course of the campaign dramatically by attacking to the west.
Typical Ukrainian resistance in Mariupol: Russian tanks entering the city destroyed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2IjCh4×03s
Seems that’s one is down. Try this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fngPVC4V4Gk
Date: 20/03/2022 14:35:13
From: dv
ID: 1862921
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s a bit ironic that the republicans support pootin against neo-nazis when they are the very people who smashed their way into the white house.
In fairness most of the Congressional Republicans have supported military aid to Ukraine. Only a handful are stars on RT.
Date: 20/03/2022 14:40:10
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1862923
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It is obvious that Putin is implementing a scorched earth policy now that he known he can’t win. This path will just make sanctions stronger and more permanent, bringing about the end of Russia as a first world country.
Date: 20/03/2022 14:48:40
From: dv
ID: 1862928
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
It is obvious that Putin is implementing a scorched earth policy now that he known he can’t win. This path will just make sanctions stronger and more permanent, bringing about the end of Russia as a first world country.
Believable.
Going by 2021’s GDP per capita table, it was already on shaky ground in that regard, basically the same as the global average.

Date: 20/03/2022 14:50:07
From: party_pants
ID: 1862929
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
It is obvious that Putin is implementing a scorched earth policy now that he known he can’t win. This path will just make sanctions stronger and more permanent, bringing about the end of Russia as a first world country.
Russia must be destroyed and ostracised. They should only allowed back into international trade when they decide to behave.
Date: 20/03/2022 14:55:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1862930
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Dark Orange said:
It is obvious that Putin is implementing a scorched earth policy now that he known he can’t win. This path will just make sanctions stronger and more permanent, bringing about the end of Russia as a first world country.
Russia must be destroyed and ostracised. They should only allowed back into international trade when they decide to behave.
No half measures left, Putin has crashed and burned.
Maybe some of those at the top will eventually realise: “Hey, we just have to rid ourselves of this one fucked-up weirdo, and we can can rebuild…who’s on our side, for the future?”
Date: 20/03/2022 14:58:16
From: dv
ID: 1862931
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Dark Orange said:
It is obvious that Putin is implementing a scorched earth policy now that he known he can’t win. This path will just make sanctions stronger and more permanent, bringing about the end of Russia as a first world country.
Russia must be destroyed and ostracised. They should only allowed back into international trade when they decide to behave.
The fact is that doing this will make this slightly tougher in the rest of the world and I do hope that there is broad political agreement to see this through.
Date: 20/03/2022 15:05:00
From: party_pants
ID: 1862932
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
party_pants said:
Dark Orange said:
It is obvious that Putin is implementing a scorched earth policy now that he known he can’t win. This path will just make sanctions stronger and more permanent, bringing about the end of Russia as a first world country.
Russia must be destroyed and ostracised. They should only allowed back into international trade when they decide to behave.
The fact is that doing this will make this slightly tougher in the rest of the world and I do hope that there is broad political agreement to see this through.
Structural change is hard, it will take 3-5 years to make the full adjustment. But once the adjustment is made then the rest of the world no longer needs Russia. Their path back will be more difficult the longer it takes.
Date: 20/03/2022 16:07:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862945
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
The gulags await:
Mariupol City Council says residents are being taken to Russia
Residents of Mariupol, which is being continuously bombed by Russia, have been taken to Russia over the last week, the Mariupol city council is reporting.
The council said that “several thousand Mariupol residents were deported to Russia. The occupiers illegally removed people from the Left Bank district and shelters in the building of the sports club, where more than a thousand people (mostly women and children) were hiding from constant bombing,” the statement reads.
The council said that the residents were taken to “filtration camps, where occupiers checked people’s phones and documents”. After, residents were “redirected to remote cities in Russia, the fate of other remain unknown”.
Guardian Live
Hostages.
Saltminers?
Date: 20/03/2022 16:13:12
From: roughbarked
ID: 1862947
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) on Tuesday echoed Kremlin talking points and accused President Joe Biden of arming what she described as “NATO Nazis” in Ukraine.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2656965401/
Is it getting to the point that the simplest explanation is that a chunk of Congress is on the Kremlin’s payroll?
It’s a bit ironic that the republicans support pootin against neo-nazis when they are the very people who smashed their way into the white house.
In fairness most of the Congressional Republicans have supported military aid to Ukraine. Only a handful are stars on RT.
Fair enough.
Date: 20/03/2022 16:20:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1862949
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
The gulags await:
Mariupol City Council says residents are being taken to Russia
Residents of Mariupol, which is being continuously bombed by Russia, have been taken to Russia over the last week, the Mariupol city council is reporting.
The council said that “several thousand Mariupol residents were deported to Russia. The occupiers illegally removed people from the Left Bank district and shelters in the building of the sports club, where more than a thousand people (mostly women and children) were hiding from constant bombing,” the statement reads.
The council said that the residents were taken to “filtration camps, where occupiers checked people’s phones and documents”. After, residents were “redirected to remote cities in Russia, the fate of other remain unknown”.
Guardian Live
Hostages.
Saltminers?
Rescuing people from the neo-Nazis.
Date: 20/03/2022 16:37:07
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1862959
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Hostages.
Saltminers?
Rescuing people from the neo-Nazis.
Human trafficking. “Rescue” 50k Ukrainians for assimilation into the Russian way of life, and replace them with 50k well deserved Russians to make sure the next election goes the right way.
Date: 20/03/2022 16:51:10
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1862966
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 20/03/2022 20:42:29
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1863040
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Reports now suggest (including from Russian side) that 331st Guards Airborne Regiment from Kostroma is no longer exist”
“Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Captain First Rank Andrey Nikolaevich Paliy was killed during fighting in the south of Ukraine”
That’s gotta hurt.
Date: 20/03/2022 20:54:13
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863042
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
“Reports now suggest (including from Russian side) that 331st Guards Airborne Regiment from Kostroma is no longer exist”
“Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Captain First Rank Andrey Nikolaevich Paliy was killed during fighting in the south of Ukraine”
That’s gotta hurt.
there’s still the other 330 regiments
Date: 20/03/2022 21:11:54
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1863046
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“Reports now suggest (including from Russian side) that 331st Guards Airborne Regiment from Kostroma is no longer exist”
“Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Captain First Rank Andrey Nikolaevich Paliy was killed during fighting in the south of Ukraine”
That’s gotta hurt.
there’s still the other 330 regiments
…and 3/4 of their Generals are still breathing.
Date: 20/03/2022 21:15:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863047
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Lukashenko dismissed assertions that Putin made a grave miscalculation trying to occupy Ukraine, as Russian troops experience heavy losses and still face strong resistance more than three weeks into the invasion.
“Putin is absolutely fit, he’s in better shape than ever … This is a completely sane, healthy person, physically healthy — he’s an athlete.”
Date: 20/03/2022 21:17:51
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1863049
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
…and a twitter thread on the subject of Logistics:
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1505370277341024260
TL;DNR – The Russian army will be finished by late April/May, assuming there is a Ukraine left by then.
Date: 20/03/2022 21:20:12
From: Arts
ID: 1863050
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
…and a twitter thread on the subject of Logistics:
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1505370277341024260
TL;DNR – The Russian army will be finished by late April/May, assuming there is a Ukraine left by then.
it’s like that game where you try to increase your little people so they can devour the red team, and you win by having at least one little person left.. just have to hold out long enough to have one little person more than them
Date: 20/03/2022 21:23:10
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1863053
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
Dark Orange said:
…and a twitter thread on the subject of Logistics:
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1505370277341024260
TL;DNR – The Russian army will be finished by late April/May, assuming there is a Ukraine left by then.
it’s like that game where you try to increase your little people so they can devour the red team, and you win by having at least one little person left.. just have to hold out long enough to have one little person more than them
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
Date: 20/03/2022 21:43:31
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1863057
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
Date: 20/03/2022 21:46:06
From: sibeen
ID: 1863058
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
I imagine that if these ties are Russian they’d be fairly staid or stodgy looking.
Date: 20/03/2022 21:48:40
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863060
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
I imagine that if these ties are Russian they’d be fairly staid or stodgy looking.
There are rumours China is supplying Russia with ties.
Date: 20/03/2022 21:48:49
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1863061
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
I imagine that if these ties are Russian they’d be fairly staid or stodgy looking.

Date: 20/03/2022 21:49:38
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1863062
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
I imagine that if these ties are Russian they’d be fairly staid or stodgy looking.
There are rumours China is supplying Russia with ties.
and sleepers…
Date: 20/03/2022 21:59:50
From: Arts
ID: 1863063
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Arts said:
Dark Orange said:
…and a twitter thread on the subject of Logistics:
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1505370277341024260
TL;DNR – The Russian army will be finished by late April/May, assuming there is a Ukraine left by then.
it’s like that game where you try to increase your little people so they can devour the red team, and you win by having at least one little person left.. just have to hold out long enough to have one little person more than them
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
but not at all surprising.
Date: 20/03/2022 22:11:42
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1863069
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
Russian ties are usually low quality hessian, I doubt any “Chaps” would rather read a tabloid before wearing one.
Date: 20/03/2022 22:12:50
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1863070
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
Russian ties are usually low quality hessian, “Chaps” would rather read a tabloid before wearing one.
fixed
Date: 20/03/2022 22:20:36
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1863073
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“Reports now suggest (including from Russian side) that 331st Guards Airborne Regiment from Kostroma is no longer exist”
“Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Captain First Rank Andrey Nikolaevich Paliy was killed during fighting in the south of Ukraine”
That’s gotta hurt.
there’s still the other 330 regiments
of course there may be more. 331st may not be the last, there could be a 332nd. etc. also of course some of the <331st may no exist anymore so there is a lot more or fewer lesser regiments.
Date: 20/03/2022 22:20:51
From: Kingy
ID: 1863074
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Arts said:
Dark Orange said:
…and a twitter thread on the subject of Logistics:
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1505370277341024260
TL;DNR – The Russian army will be finished by late April/May, assuming there is a Ukraine left by then.
it’s like that game where you try to increase your little people so they can devour the red team, and you win by having at least one little person left.. just have to hold out long enough to have one little person more than them
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
Yep, but that’s how they think that they will get the “enemy” to surrender. The Military have been convinced that the civilians are rats or cockroaches and should be exterminated. Hitler set a precedent with the Jews, and Putler is following suit.
Date: 20/03/2022 22:26:35
From: Arts
ID: 1863075
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Dark Orange said:
Arts said:
it’s like that game where you try to increase your little people so they can devour the red team, and you win by having at least one little person left.. just have to hold out long enough to have one little person more than them
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
Yep, but that’s how they think that they will get the “enemy” to surrender. The Military have been convinced that the civilians are rats or cockroaches and should be exterminated. Hitler set a precedent with the Jews, and Putler is following suit.
there have been a few in between also.. Rwanda, Bosnia Herzegovina…
Date: 20/03/2022 22:30:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863076
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bogsnorkler said:
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
“Reports now suggest (including from Russian side) that 331st Guards Airborne Regiment from Kostroma is no longer exist”
“Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Captain First Rank Andrey Nikolaevich Paliy was killed during fighting in the south of Ukraine”
That’s gotta hurt.
there’s still the other 330 regiments
of course there may be more. 331st may not be the last, there could be a 332nd. etc. also of course some of the <331st may no exist anymore so there is a lot more or fewer lesser regiments.
maybe the Russians use quaternary bases for their military so for 8-fingered creatures like us there are really only 60 regiments we can be certain of
Date: 20/03/2022 22:51:23
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1863079
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Dark Orange said:
Peak Warming Man said:
“UK Holds Plane With Russian Ties”
This could have repercussions, most of the chaps in the City wear ties every day and it’s not uncommon for Englishmen to garden in a tie.
Russian ties are usually low quality hessian, “Chaps” would rather read a tabloid before wearing one.
fixed
If one of the chaps was seen reading a tabloid by one of the other chaps they wouldn’t muck around, they’d have him straight out to lunch and remind him of status, protocol, that sort of thing.
Date: 20/03/2022 23:04:18
From: Michael V
ID: 1863083
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Arts said:
Dark Orange said:
…and a twitter thread on the subject of Logistics:
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1505370277341024260
TL;DNR – The Russian army will be finished by late April/May, assuming there is a Ukraine left by then.
it’s like that game where you try to increase your little people so they can devour the red team, and you win by having at least one little person left.. just have to hold out long enough to have one little person more than them
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
And pretty disgusting, too.
Date: 21/03/2022 00:52:51
From: dv
ID: 1863105
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.dw.com/en/cultural-patronage-or-artwashing-russias-nord-stream-2/av-61182035
Nord Stream was one of the founders and the key sponsor of the Baltic Sea Philharmonic orchestra, and the orchestra has been grateful for their discreet and generous support. Recent events have raised questions about the long term costs.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:04:34
From: Michael V
ID: 1863286
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Are her husband and four-year-old son that boring?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-21/wa-woman-in-ukraine-join-foreign-legion-fight-russia/100915742
Date: 21/03/2022 15:09:26
From: Cymek
ID: 1863287
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Dark Orange said:
Arts said:
it’s like that game where you try to increase your little people so they can devour the red team, and you win by having at least one little person left.. just have to hold out long enough to have one little person more than them
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
And pretty disgusting, too.
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
Date: 21/03/2022 15:20:21
From: Michael V
ID: 1863288
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
Dark Orange said:
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
And pretty disgusting, too.
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
And risk a madman unleashing nukes onto the world?
Putin has as much as said he would.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:20:38
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863289
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
Dark Orange said:
It’s pretty depressing to read that the Russians are timing their missile attacks for maximum civilian casualties.
And pretty disgusting, too.
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
Why are you so keen for a WWIII?
Date: 21/03/2022 15:25:49
From: Cymek
ID: 1863290
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
And pretty disgusting, too.
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
Why are you so keen for a WWIII?
I’m not but its seems rather cowardly for all these people to die at the whims of Putin and not much is done to prevent it.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:42:42
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863293
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
Why are you so keen for a WWIII?
I’m not but its seems rather cowardly for all these people to die at the whims of Putin and not much is done to prevent it.
So we should make logical decisions based on our understanding of what constitutes ‘cowardice’?
Date: 21/03/2022 15:43:23
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863294
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Societal Leeches With Preexisting Medical Conditions Die Mild Deaths
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-20-22/h_d4e310461013be01dd92f2da81c24314
Fifty-six elderly residents of a care home in the eastern Ukrainian town of Kreminna were killed when a Russian tank opened fire on a care home, according to the head of the Luhansk region. Serhii Haidai said the attack happened nine days ago, on March 11, and that fifteen other residents of the care home had been abducted and taken to the town of Svatove in what is now Russian-occupied territory. Haidai first reported the attack in a video statement posted to Twitter on March 12 but said at the time he had no information on casualties, indicating Ukrainian emergency services and officials had come under fire when they tried to gain access the area. “[Russian forces] opened fire on a nursing home for elderly people with a tank. There were only elderly people living there, many of them with disabilities. We have no idea how many people have died and how many survived. When we tried to reach the scene, they started shelling us,” he said on March 12.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:44:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863295
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Why are you so keen for a WWIII?
I’m not but its seems rather cowardly for all these people to die at the whims of Putin and not much is done to prevent it.
So we should make logical decisions based on our understanding of what constitutes ‘cowardice’?
shrug people celebrate Spartan attitudes shrug
Date: 21/03/2022 15:47:22
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863296
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:48:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863297
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
which seem to be happening with concerning frequency right now
Date: 21/03/2022 15:49:07
From: Cymek
ID: 1863298
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
It helps
Date: 21/03/2022 15:49:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863299
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
which seem to be happening with concerning frequency right now
sorry we forgot to add
⚠ sarcasm actually not intended
though the footage could all be faked / mislabeled we suppose
Date: 21/03/2022 15:49:57
From: Cymek
ID: 1863300
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
which seem to be happening with concerning frequency right now
Seems the world is OK with this nation being wiped off the face of the map.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:50:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863301
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Boris Johnson accused of being ‘threat to national security’ over reports he attended Tory fundraiser on night Putin launched Ukraine invasion
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-accused-of-being-threat-to-national-security-over-reports-he-attended-tory-fundraiser-on-night-putin-launched-ukraine-invasion-12570842
According to The Sunday Times, the prime minister was at a Conservative Party fundraising dinner attended by at least one donor with links to Russia on the night Vladimir Putin launched his war in Ukraine.
The paper reports that the PM gave a short speech at the event in central London as it became clear the Russian invasion was imminent, telling the 75 guests he had to leave early to deal with the crisis.
The Russian donor at the fundraising event was Lubov Chernukhin, wife of a former Russian deputy finance minister, who has given almost £2m to the Conservative Party since 2012.
Two of the PM’s most senior cabinet colleagues, the defence secretary Ben Wallace and the levelling up secretary Michael Gove, were also present, The Sunday Times reports.
It took place despite warnings – including from Mr Johnson personally – that the invasion appeared imminent, and only hours before Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered an address in a last-ditch attempt to avert the war.
more political bullshitting in article
Date: 21/03/2022 15:51:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863302
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
which seem to be happening with concerning frequency right now
Seems the world is OK with this nation being wiped off the face of the map.
That’s bullshit.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:51:20
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863303
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
which seem to be happening with concerning frequency right now
Seems the world is OK with this nation being wiped off the face of the map.
apparently nobody else wants to be wiped off the face of the map either
Date: 21/03/2022 15:56:10
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1863305
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
Now is a good a time as any to pave the way for a possible WWIII by imposing a no fly zone in Ukraine
Surely enough is enough
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
It will definitely have a big impact on cruise missiles.
Date: 21/03/2022 15:57:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863306
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
left or right


Date: 21/03/2022 16:04:41
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1863307
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Boris Johnson accused of being ‘threat to national security’ over reports he attended Tory fundraiser on night Putin launched Ukraine invasion
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-accused-of-being-threat-to-national-security-over-reports-he-attended-tory-fundraiser-on-night-putin-launched-ukraine-invasion-12570842
According to The Sunday Times, the prime minister was at a Conservative Party fundraising dinner attended by at least one donor with links to Russia on the night Vladimir Putin launched his war in Ukraine.
The paper reports that the PM gave a short speech at the event in central London as it became clear the Russian invasion was imminent, telling the 75 guests he had to leave early to deal with the crisis.
The Russian donor at the fundraising event was Lubov Chernukhin, wife of a former Russian deputy finance minister, who has given almost £2m to the Conservative Party since 2012.
Two of the PM’s most senior cabinet colleagues, the defence secretary Ben Wallace and the levelling up secretary Michael Gove, were also present, The Sunday Times reports.
It took place despite warnings – including from Mr Johnson personally – that the invasion appeared imminent, and only hours before Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered an address in a last-ditch attempt to avert the war.
more political bullshitting in article
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Date: 21/03/2022 16:06:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863308
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
SCIENCE said:
Boris Johnson accused of being ‘threat to national security’ over reports he attended Tory fundraiser on night Putin launched Ukraine invasion
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-accused-of-being-threat-to-national-security-over-reports-he-attended-tory-fundraiser-on-night-putin-launched-ukraine-invasion-12570842
According to The Sunday Times, the prime minister was at a Conservative Party fundraising dinner attended by at least one donor with links to Russia on the night Vladimir Putin launched his war in Ukraine.
The paper reports that the PM gave a short speech at the event in central London as it became clear the Russian invasion was imminent, telling the 75 guests he had to leave early to deal with the crisis.
The Russian donor at the fundraising event was Lubov Chernukhin, wife of a former Russian deputy finance minister, who has given almost £2m to the Conservative Party since 2012.
Two of the PM’s most senior cabinet colleagues, the defence secretary Ben Wallace and the levelling up secretary Michael Gove, were also present, The Sunday Times reports.
It took place despite warnings – including from Mr Johnson personally – that the invasion appeared imminent, and only hours before Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered an address in a last-ditch attempt to avert the war.
more political bullshitting in article
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
that’s why it says “accused” and then in the more political bullshitting in article, actually correctly reports that it’s all Labour’s fault
Date: 21/03/2022 16:07:14
From: Cymek
ID: 1863309
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
SCIENCE said:
Boris Johnson accused of being ‘threat to national security’ over reports he attended Tory fundraiser on night Putin launched Ukraine invasion
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-accused-of-being-threat-to-national-security-over-reports-he-attended-tory-fundraiser-on-night-putin-launched-ukraine-invasion-12570842
According to The Sunday Times, the prime minister was at a Conservative Party fundraising dinner attended by at least one donor with links to Russia on the night Vladimir Putin launched his war in Ukraine.
The paper reports that the PM gave a short speech at the event in central London as it became clear the Russian invasion was imminent, telling the 75 guests he had to leave early to deal with the crisis.
The Russian donor at the fundraising event was Lubov Chernukhin, wife of a former Russian deputy finance minister, who has given almost £2m to the Conservative Party since 2012.
Two of the PM’s most senior cabinet colleagues, the defence secretary Ben Wallace and the levelling up secretary Michael Gove, were also present, The Sunday Times reports.
It took place despite warnings – including from Mr Johnson personally – that the invasion appeared imminent, and only hours before Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivered an address in a last-ditch attempt to avert the war.
more political bullshitting in article
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Political donations really should be considered bribery
Date: 21/03/2022 16:08:20
From: esselte
ID: 1863310
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
No-fly zones don’t stop missile attacks.
which seem to be happening with concerning frequency right now
Seems the world is OK with this nation being wiped off the face of the map.
Let’s bring back East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia etc.
Date: 21/03/2022 16:08:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863311
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Tucker Carlson, the star news commentator at Murdoch’s Fox News, is promoted in Russia as a reliable voice due to his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin commentary.
Date: 21/03/2022 16:10:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863312
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Tucker Carlson, the star news commentator at Murdoch’s Fox News, is promoted in Russia as a reliable voice due to his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin commentary.
Russian foreign minister praises Fox News coverage of war in Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/18/sergei-lavrov-praises-fox-news-coverage-ukraine
Date: 21/03/2022 16:11:50
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1863313
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Tucker Carlson, the star news commentator at Murdoch’s Fox News, is promoted in Russia as a reliable voice due to his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin commentary.
Yes this is the same newspaper owner who editorialised for the election of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating and John Howard, he’s purely one sided and evil.
Date: 21/03/2022 16:15:34
From: dv
ID: 1863314
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Hey, it was a Murdoch rag that did the investigative reporting that brought this story to light. Trump was knocked back for a Sydney casino bid because the NSW Police report turned up his mafia connections.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/16/trumps-bid-for-sydney-casino-30-years-ago-rejected-due-to-mafia-connections
Rupert’s still a cunt though.
Date: 21/03/2022 16:16:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1863315
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Tucker Carlson, the star news commentator at Murdoch’s Fox News, is promoted in Russia as a reliable voice due to his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin commentary.
Yes this is the same newspaper owner who editorialised for the election of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating and John Howard, he’s purely one sided and evil.
Owning a media empires true purpose would be to manipulate the masses into whatever you think is reality or the truth
Date: 21/03/2022 16:19:16
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863317
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Tucker Carlson, the star news commentator at Murdoch’s Fox News, is promoted in Russia as a reliable voice due to his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin commentary.
Yes this is the same newspaper owner who editorialised for the election of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating and John Howard, he’s purely one sided and evil.
No he’s just so unprincipled that he’ll have his newspapers back the likely winner regardless of their merits.
Date: 21/03/2022 16:23:26
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863318
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Tucker Carlson, the star news commentator at Murdoch’s Fox News, is promoted in Russia as a reliable voice due to his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin commentary.
Yes this is the same newspaper owner who editorialised for the election of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating and John Howard, he’s purely one sided and evil.
No he’s just so unprincipled that he’ll have his newspapers back the likely winner regardless of their merits.
Bit harsh. He has two guiding principles:
a) Money for me
b) Power over the suckers
Date: 21/03/2022 16:24:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863319
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
which seem to be happening with concerning frequency right now
Seems the world is OK with this nation being wiped off the face of the map.
Let’s bring back East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia etc.
There could an opening in the Kremlin for a bright young lad like you.
Date: 21/03/2022 16:25:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863320
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Isn’t Sky News owned by the bloke responsible for every evil that has ever happened in the world, Rupert Murdock?
Tucker Carlson, the star news commentator at Murdoch’s Fox News, is promoted in Russia as a reliable voice due to his anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin commentary.
Yes this is the same newspaper owner who editorialised for the election of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating and John Howard, he’s purely one sided and evil.
Rupert is only ever on onside.
Rupert’s side.
Date: 21/03/2022 16:26:02
From: dv
ID: 1863321
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
esselte said:
Cymek said:
Seems the world is OK with this nation being wiped off the face of the map.
Let’s bring back East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia etc.
There could an opening in the Kremlin for a bright young lad like you.
EIIR is getting her red marker out
Date: 21/03/2022 19:40:10
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863390
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Gotta say: Ukraine is better on the PR battlefield, too.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aGz87bz_460svvp9.webm
Date: 21/03/2022 19:48:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1863397
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Gotta say: Ukraine is better on the PR battlefield, too.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aGz87bz_460svvp9.webm
:)
Date: 21/03/2022 20:00:07
From: dv
ID: 1863406
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Chechyn leader Kadyrov poses with a captured Ukrainian vehicle that appears to be outside his palace in Chechnya. I suppose it might just be a similar looking building.
Date: 21/03/2022 20:24:47
From: Kingy
ID: 1863413
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Gotta say: Ukraine is better on the PR battlefield, too.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aGz87bz_460svvp9.webm
Sad, but moving. Ukraine has already suffered enough over the millennia, and it nearly always is caused by some self important murderous dictator who thinks he doesn’t have enough.
And it always ends in mass deaths for someones ego.
Date: 21/03/2022 20:30:32
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1863418
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Four Corners
Monday 21st March at 8:33 pm (55 minutes)
Despair And Defiance: Four Corners takes you into a city under siege – Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine. Sarah Ferguson reports on the despair and defiance of the Ukrainian people resisting the Russian invasion
Date: 22/03/2022 00:01:31
From: dv
ID: 1863510
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 22/03/2022 00:16:02
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863518
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Reinforcing the idiots thread.
Date: 22/03/2022 00:22:35
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863523
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:

Reinforcing the idiots thread.
we mean the confluence of fucking stupidity was never going to be an accident
Date: 22/03/2022 05:10:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863550
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 22/03/2022 06:19:59
From: dv
ID: 1863553
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
CNN)David Beckham has handed over control of his Instagram account to a doctor in Ukraine, in a bid to highlight the “amazing work” of medical professionals caring for patients amid the Russian invasion of the country.
Throughout Sunday, the former England football captain, who has been a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador since 2005, enabled Dr. Iryna — head of a perinatal center in Kharkiv — to show his 71.6 million followers the conditions under which she and her colleagues are working.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/football/david-beckham-instagram-account-ukrainian-doctor-kharkiv-intl-scli/index.html
Date: 22/03/2022 07:04:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863562
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Looks like Pootin has decided that the prize he’s going to aim for now is Odessa. Having all the sea ports might appease him after losing roughly half his forces so far.
Authorities in Odesa have accused Russian forces of striking residential buildings, the first such attack on the Black Sea port city.
Date: 22/03/2022 07:16:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863563
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Mr Biden last week said Mr Putin was a “war criminal” for sending tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine.
International leaders are calling Putin a ‘war criminal’.
Allegations that Vladimir Putin is a war criminal are beginning to pile up — here’s what it could mean for the Russian leader.
“Such statements from the American President, unworthy of a statesman of such high rank, put Russian-American relations on the verge of rupture,” the ministry said in a statement.
The Kremlin earlier described the comments as “personal insults” against Mr Putin.
The ministry also told Mr Sullivan that hostile actions against Russia would receive a “decisive and firm response”.
Date: 22/03/2022 07:54:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863567
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Could chuck a conspiracy theory up about a misguided Russian missile finding a Chinese plane but it would seem too silly for words. Apart from the fact that they have done it before.
Date: 22/03/2022 08:33:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863575
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
The Kremlin earlier described the comments as “personal insults” against Mr Putin.
Having a tank fire a high-explosive shell into your flat on Putin’s orders is a bit of a personal insult, too.
Date: 22/03/2022 08:54:08
From: Michael V
ID: 1863580
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
The Kremlin earlier described the comments as “personal insults” against Mr Putin.
Having a tank fire a high-explosive shell into your flat on Putin’s orders is a bit of a personal insult, too.
Yes. Very much so.
Date: 22/03/2022 11:00:40
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1863610
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-03-22/ukraine-invasion-a-digital-iron-curtain-is-descending-on-russia/100917662
Link
Date: 22/03/2022 11:24:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863620
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This is heartwarming:
Amelia Anisovych: Ukrainian girl who sang ‘Let It Go’ in bomb shelter performs Ukrainian national anthem at charity concert
She and her family have been evacuated to Lodz, Poland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrI7jPWzHzA
Date: 22/03/2022 11:28:11
From: Michael V
ID: 1863623
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
This is heartwarming:
Amelia Anisovych: Ukrainian girl who sang ‘Let It Go’ in bomb shelter performs Ukrainian national anthem at charity concert
She and her family have been evacuated to Lodz, Poland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrI7jPWzHzA
:)
Date: 22/03/2022 11:31:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863626
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
This is heartwarming:
Amelia Anisovych: Ukrainian girl who sang ‘Let It Go’ in bomb shelter performs Ukrainian national anthem at charity concert
She and her family have been evacuated to Lodz, Poland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrI7jPWzHzA
:)
Unfortunately that clip cut off before the applause and her big smiles.
This one includes some of the applause:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3C-SMDiyOc
Date: 22/03/2022 11:34:24
From: Michael V
ID: 1863629
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
This is heartwarming:
Amelia Anisovych: Ukrainian girl who sang ‘Let It Go’ in bomb shelter performs Ukrainian national anthem at charity concert
She and her family have been evacuated to Lodz, Poland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrI7jPWzHzA
:)
Unfortunately that clip cut off before the applause and her big smiles.
This one includes some of the applause:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3C-SMDiyOc
:)
Date: 22/03/2022 11:42:02
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1863632
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
This is heartwarming:
Amelia Anisovych: Ukrainian girl who sang ‘Let It Go’ in bomb shelter performs Ukrainian national anthem at charity concert
She and her family have been evacuated to Lodz, Poland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrI7jPWzHzA
:)
Unfortunately that clip cut off before the applause and her big smiles.
This one includes some of the applause:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3C-SMDiyOc
Feisty little girl with a good voice.
Date: 22/03/2022 11:48:20
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863638
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Bubblecar said:
Michael V said:
:)
Unfortunately that clip cut off before the applause and her big smiles.
This one includes some of the applause:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3C-SMDiyOc
Feisty little girl with a good voice.
Should be more of it.
Date: 22/03/2022 13:18:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863666
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
The Kremlin earlier described the comments as “personal insults” against Mr Putin.
Having a tank fire a high-explosive shell into your flat on Putin’s orders is a bit of a personal insult, too.
Yes. Very much so.
nah they’re just statistics
Date: 22/03/2022 13:19:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863668
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
A Russia that has been out-fought and out-thought by the Ukrainians is only more dangerous.
so we should give up and give in and give them the benefits before they ask
Date: 22/03/2022 14:12:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863693
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
A Russia that has been out-fought and out-thought by the Ukrainians is only more dangerous.
so we should give up and give in and give them the benefits before they ask
You said that.
Date: 22/03/2022 14:18:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863698
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
A Russia that has been out-fought and out-thought by the Ukrainians is only more dangerous.
so we should give up and give in and give them the benefits before they ask
You said that.
>Wars only end through political agreements.
Um, no. More often they end through military victory.
If there is then a “political agreement” it’s the terms of surrender.
Date: 22/03/2022 14:20:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863700
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
so we should give up and give in and give them the benefits before they ask
You said that.
>Wars only end through political agreements.
Um, no. More often they end through military victory.
If there is then a “political agreement” it’s the terms of surrender.
Even a victory these days requires a signed cessation.
Can’t simply hack off the King’s head in battle anymore.
Date: 22/03/2022 14:20:35
From: Tamb
ID: 1863701
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
so we should give up and give in and give them the benefits before they ask
You said that.
>Wars only end through political agreements.
Um, no. More often they end through military victory.
If there is then a “political agreement” it’s the terms of surrender.
WWI was political agreement. Most others are not.
Date: 22/03/2022 14:24:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863704
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
You said that.
>Wars only end through political agreements.
Um, no. More often they end through military victory.
If there is then a “political agreement” it’s the terms of surrender.
Even a victory these days requires a signed cessation.
Can’t simply hack off the King’s head in battle anymore.
Yes, terms of surrender, often unconditional.
Date: 22/03/2022 14:31:45
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863708
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
A Russia that has been out-fought and out-thought by the Ukrainians is only more dangerous.
so we should give up and give in and give them the benefits before they ask
You said that.
we mean, we get that danger is not monotonic on the capabilities of an agent
but it seems to be a biased andor conveniently restrictive view that represents a less capable agent as more dangerous
Date: 22/03/2022 14:39:13
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863711
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
so we should give up and give in and give them the benefits before they ask
You said that.
we mean, we get that danger is not monotonic on the capabilities of an agent
but it seems to be a biased andor conveniently restrictive view that represents a less capable agent as more dangerous
While the Russians are less capable, on paper they have more resources.
It’s all a very open question.
How long will the Russians support a leader who has committed their nation to an essentially pointless and very costly war for the sake of his own distorted ego, backed by his closest supporters who can’t easily disown him?
Date: 22/03/2022 15:05:44
From: Michael V
ID: 1863720
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
You said that.
we mean, we get that danger is not monotonic on the capabilities of an agent
but it seems to be a biased andor conveniently restrictive view that represents a less capable agent as more dangerous
While the Russians are less capable, on paper they have more resources.
It’s all a very open question.
How long will the Russians support a leader who has committed their nation to an essentially pointless and very costly war for the sake of his own distorted ego, backed by his closest supporters who can’t easily disown him?
And the Russian public are being fed lies etc. So how long is a piece of string when you can’t see or touch it?
Date: 22/03/2022 15:18:26
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1863723
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
You said that.
we mean, we get that danger is not monotonic on the capabilities of an agent
but it seems to be a biased andor conveniently restrictive view that represents a less capable agent as more dangerous
While the Russians are less capable, on paper they have more resources.
It’s all a very open question.
How long will the Russians support a leader who has committed their nation to an essentially pointless and very costly war for the sake of his own distorted ego, backed by his closest supporters who can’t easily disown him?
I never thought this war would happen, so shows what I know.. but I’m not convinced that Russia is “less capable”.. I mean there are certainty vast differences in capabilities on both sides, but I think, now that it has started, the most likely short to medium term outcome here is some type of dramatic force escalation by Russia that results in them taking Mariupol, Kharkiv and Odesa and maybe even Kyiv. Now this won;t stop the war, but it will fundamentally change the way the war will be fought.
Date: 22/03/2022 15:21:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863724
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
Bubblecar said:
SCIENCE said:
we mean, we get that danger is not monotonic on the capabilities of an agent
but it seems to be a biased andor conveniently restrictive view that represents a less capable agent as more dangerous
While the Russians are less capable, on paper they have more resources.
It’s all a very open question.
How long will the Russians support a leader who has committed their nation to an essentially pointless and very costly war for the sake of his own distorted ego, backed by his closest supporters who can’t easily disown him?
I never thought this war would happen, so shows what I know.. but I’m not convinced that Russia is “less capable”.. I mean there are certainty vast differences in capabilities on both sides, but I think, now that it has started, the most likely short to medium term outcome here is some type of dramatic force escalation by Russia that results in them taking Mariupol, Kharkiv and Odesa and maybe even Kyiv. Now this won;t stop the war, but it will fundamentally change the way the war will be fought.
They’ll probably make some gains, but it’ll be due to their greater resources, not greater military skill. Attrition is attrition after all.
Bear in mind the Ukrainians have doubtless been keeping plenty of reserves in the west of the country, and will be in this for the long haul.
Date: 22/03/2022 15:56:27
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863735
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelenskyy says he is prepared to discuss a commitment from Ukraine not to seek NATO membership in exchange for a ceasefire, the withdrawal of Russian troops and a guarantee of Ukraine’s security.
“It’s a compromise for everyone: for the West, which doesn’t know what to do with us with regard to NATO; for Ukraine, which wants security guarantees; and for Russia, which doesn’t want further NATO expansion,” Mr Zelenskyy said late on Monday in an interview with Ukrainian television channels.
He said NATO was not ready to admit Ukraine because it did not want to fight Russia, however some countries were prepared to guarantee Ukraine’s security:
“There are NATO countries who want to be guarantors of our security, but who can’t, unfortunately, guarantee us 100 per cent membership in the alliance. But they are ready to do everything that alliance would normally do if we were a member. I think it’s a good compromise. It’s a compromise for everyone.”
He also repeated his call for direct talks with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin.
He claimed that if talks failed, it meant Mr Putin was planning to invade more former Soviet countries:
“ He wasn’t going to end this war, that Ukraine in his plans is a step towards the result that he was talking about. Before going further to Europe, he’ll need first of all to take the Baltic countries that were part of the Soviet Union, and then other countries that had Soviet army and Soviet influence.”
Mr Zelenskyy said that once there was a ceasefire and steps had been taken to provide security guarantees, Ukraine would be ready to discuss the status of Crimea and the eastern Donbas region, which has been held by Russian-backed separatists since 2014.
Date: 22/03/2022 18:47:37
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863790
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian forces ‘largely stalled’, UK defence says
The UK’s ministry of defence has just released its latest intelligence report, saying Ukrainian forces continue to repulse Russian attempts to occupy the southern city of Mariupol.
The report reads:
Despite heavy fighting, Ukrainian forces continue to repulse Russian attempts to occupy the southern city of Mariupol.
Russian forces elsewhere in Ukraine have endured yet another day of limited progress with most forces largely stalled in place.
Several Ukrainian cities continue to suffer heavy Russian air and artillery bombardment with the UN reporting that more than 10 million Ukrainians are now internally displaced as a result of Russia’s invasion.”
Guardian Live.
Date: 22/03/2022 19:03:25
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1863792
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Janina says Germany should bomb the Kremlin. You read it here.
Date: 22/03/2022 19:08:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1863794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Janina says Germany should bomb the Kremlin. You read it here.
If only it were that easy.
Date: 22/03/2022 19:44:42
From: party_pants
ID: 1863811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sarahs mum said:
Janina says Germany should bomb the Kremlin. You read it here.
Germany probably don’t have any aircraft serviceable, or capable of reaching that far. Let alone one that can can avoid the radars around Moscow, which is still one of the most heavily defended bits of airspace in the world.
Date: 22/03/2022 19:49:55
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863812
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sarahs mum said:
Janina says Germany should bomb the Kremlin. You read it here.
Germany probably don’t have any aircraft serviceable, or capable of reaching that far. Let alone one that can can avoid the radars around Moscow, which is still one of the most heavily defended bits of airspace in the world.
maybe they just need to be more creative, use a different type of delivery, suicide perhaps, or VBIED might be more fun
Date: 22/03/2022 19:58:43
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863815
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sarahs mum said:
Janina says Germany should bomb the Kremlin. You read it here.
Germany probably don’t have any aircraft serviceable, or capable of reaching that far. Let alone one that can can avoid the radars around Moscow, which is still one of the most heavily defended bits of airspace in the world.
Too right. Give Janina th
Date: 22/03/2022 19:58:44
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863816
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sarahs mum said:
Janina says Germany should bomb the Kremlin. You read it here.
Germany probably don’t have any aircraft serviceable, or capable of reaching that far. Let alone one that can can avoid the radars around Moscow, which is still one of the most heavily defended bits of airspace in the world.
Too right. Give Janina th
Date: 22/03/2022 19:59:58
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863817
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sarahs mum said:
Janina says Germany should bomb the Kremlin. You read it here.
Germany probably don’t have any aircraft serviceable, or capable of reaching that far. Let alone one that can can avoid the radars around Moscow, which is still one of the most heavily defended bits of airspace in the world.
Too right. Give Janina the what for!
Date: 22/03/2022 21:12:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863851
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
LOLWTF
Washington (CNN)The US has been unable to determine if Russia has designated a military commander responsible for leading the country’s war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter — something that current and former defense officials say is likely a key contributor to the apparent clumsiness and disorganization of the Russian assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/us-russia-top-military-commander-ukraine-war/index.html
Date: 22/03/2022 21:18:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863854
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
LOLWTF
Washington (CNN)The US has been unable to determine if Russia has designated a military commander responsible for leading the country’s war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter — something that current and former defense officials say is likely a key contributor to the apparent clumsiness and disorganization of the Russian assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/us-russia-top-military-commander-ukraine-war/index.html
Maybe Putin is channeling old Uncle Joe there.
Stalin viewed clever,capable, and popular generals and field-marshals with great suspicion. He worried that they might get ideas about removing him from power. He did everything he could to ensure that they ‘stayed in their place’, and made sure that they received rather less than the credit they deserved.
Could be that Vlad doesn’t want any potential popular leaders building reputations in Ukraine. Keep command divided, no single strategist wielding authority.
Date: 22/03/2022 21:25:26
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1863856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
LOLWTF
Washington (CNN)The US has been unable to determine if Russia has designated a military commander responsible for leading the country’s war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter — something that current and former defense officials say is likely a key contributor to the apparent clumsiness and disorganization of the Russian assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/us-russia-top-military-commander-ukraine-war/index.html
Maybe Putin is channeling old Uncle Joe there.
Stalin viewed clever,capable, and popular generals and field-marshals with great suspicion. He worried that they might get ideas about removing him from power. He did everything he could to ensure that they ‘stayed in their place’, and made sure that they received rather less than the credit they deserved.
Could be that Vlad doesn’t want any potential popular leaders building reputations in Ukraine. Keep command divided, no single strategist wielding authority.
Probably.
Date: 22/03/2022 21:39:45
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863858
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
LOLWTF
Washington (CNN)The US has been unable to determine if Russia has designated a military commander responsible for leading the country’s war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter — something that current and former defense officials say is likely a key contributor to the apparent clumsiness and disorganization of the Russian assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/us-russia-top-military-commander-ukraine-war/index.html
Maybe Putin is channeling old Uncle Joe there.
Stalin viewed clever,capable, and popular generals and field-marshals with great suspicion. He worried that they might get ideas about removing him from power. He did everything he could to ensure that they ‘stayed in their place’, and made sure that they received rather less than the credit they deserved.
Could be that Vlad doesn’t want any potential popular leaders building reputations in Ukraine. Keep command divided, no single strategist wielding authority.
Probably.
guess it works better in defense than in offense then
Date: 22/03/2022 21:42:24
From: Kingy
ID: 1863860
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
LOLWTF
Washington (CNN)The US has been unable to determine if Russia has designated a military commander responsible for leading the country’s war in Ukraine, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter — something that current and former defense officials say is likely a key contributor to the apparent clumsiness and disorganization of the Russian assault.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/us-russia-top-military-commander-ukraine-war/index.html
Over here we have what is called AIIMS.
Australasian_Inter-Service_Incident_Management_System
One of the most important parts of this system, is delegating important tasks to other people as the management people begin to get overwhelmed with information and tasks..
One of the main failures of any management system is not doing so.
Putler seems to have surrounded himself with yes men, and ignored or executed anyone who tells him that he is wrong.
On the up side, several of his ex mates, now have new yachts, oh, wait…
Now they don’t.
Date: 22/03/2022 21:43:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863861
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
Maybe Putin is channeling old Uncle Joe there.
Stalin viewed clever,capable, and popular generals and field-marshals with great suspicion. He worried that they might get ideas about removing him from power. He did everything he could to ensure that they ‘stayed in their place’, and made sure that they received rather less than the credit they deserved.
Could be that Vlad doesn’t want any potential popular leaders building reputations in Ukraine. Keep command divided, no single strategist wielding authority.
Probably.
guess it works better in defense than in offense then
No, even during the Russians’ rapid advance into Germany in WW2, Stalin took pains to see that even the really good planners and leaders like Zhukov didn’t get too big for their boots, in his opinion.
Date: 22/03/2022 21:49:40
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863862
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
One of the most important parts of this system, is delegating important tasks to other people as the management people begin to get overwhelmed with information and tasks..
One of the main failures of any management system is not doing so.
Encouraging initiative and bold thinking never used to be a thing in the old Soviet forces. In fact, they were often actively discouraged.
Junior officers were often not provided with maps, more senior officers served mostly to relay orders from the big brass and to goad formations to be in place at the right time.
The classic story is that if you were told to get your battalion across a river at a certain point, and there were no boats or bridges, you made them swim. If they couldn’t swim and drowned, that’s how it was, your orders were to cross the river, not question the lack of boats or go looking looking for boats or bridges or to have brilliant ideas about it.
Date: 22/03/2022 21:59:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863867
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Encouraging initiative and bold thinking never used to be a thing in the old Soviet forces. In fact, they were often actively discouraged.
Junior officers were often not provided with maps, more senior officers served mostly to relay orders from the big brass and to goad formations to be in place at the right time.
The classic story is that if you were told to get your battalion across a river at a certain point, and there were no boats or bridges, you made them swim. If they couldn’t swim and drowned, that’s how it was, your orders were to cross the river, not question the lack of boats or go looking looking for boats or bridges or to have brilliant ideas about it.
hmm what if we’re told to make sure The Economy Must Grow by working in shared offices and making sure children get in-person “education” at school
Date: 22/03/2022 22:00:39
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863868
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
Encouraging initiative and bold thinking never used to be a thing in the old Soviet forces. In fact, they were often actively discouraged.
Junior officers were often not provided with maps, more senior officers served mostly to relay orders from the big brass and to goad formations to be in place at the right time.
The classic story is that if you were told to get your battalion across a river at a certain point, and there were no boats or bridges, you made them swim. If they couldn’t swim and drowned, that’s how it was, your orders were to cross the river, not question the lack of boats or go looking looking for boats or bridges or to have brilliant ideas about it.
hmm what if we’re told to make sure The Economy Must Grow by working in shared offices and making sure children get in-person “education” at school
Salute, say ‘aye aye, sir’ in a cheery tone, about face, carry on at the double.
Date: 22/03/2022 22:03:00
From: dv
ID: 1863871
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I’m glad Swepson got another go, the last match was brutal for bowlers.
Date: 22/03/2022 22:37:20
From: dv
ID: 1863883
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/21/europe/borys-romanchenko-death-ukraine-intl/index.html
A 96-year-old Holocaust survivor, Borys Romanchenko, was killed Friday by a Russian strike on the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.
Romanchenko’s death was confirmed by the Buchenwald concentration camp memorial institute in a series of tweets.
Romanchenko survived the camps at Buchenwald, Peenemünde, Dora and Bergen-Belsen during World War II, the memorial said, adding that it was “stunned” by news of his death.
It said Romanchenko worked “intensively on the memory of Nazi crimes and was vice-president of the Buchenwald-Dora International Committee.”
Date: 22/03/2022 23:11:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1863896
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/22/7333502/
The Uralvagonzavod plant and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant, which manufacture and repair tanks and other armoured vehicles for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, have suspended their work.
Details: Work was suspended due to the lack of essential foreign-made components.
Source: General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine; Defence Express
Date: 23/03/2022 00:10:15
From: dv
ID: 1863912
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
After days of fighting, Ukrainian forces have regained control of Makariv, a town 30 miles west of Kyiv, the Armed Forces of Ukraine said in a post on Facebook on Tuesday. The “state flag of Ukraine was raised over the city of Makariv” as the Russians retreated, the post said. CNN could not confirm the claim by the Ukraine forces.
Meanwhile, Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny was found guilty of fraud on Tuesday by a Moscow court, according to state-owned news agency Tass. While not directly connected to the invasion of Ukraine, the verdict coincides with Putin’s broad crackdown on opposition voices and independent media over the past four weeks.
Date: 23/03/2022 02:29:58
From: dv
ID: 1863921
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
On March 2, a Russian defense ministry spokesman put the number of dead Russian military personnel at 498. But that number has not been updated by officials since then.
Then on Monday a pro-Putin Russian tabloid published — then later removed — a report with an updated toll of 9,861 Russian armed forces deaths in the war in Ukraine, citing the Russian defense ministry.
The report from the tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda originally read: “According to the Russian Defense Ministry, during the special operation in Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces lost 9861 people killed and 16153 wounded.”
—-
CNN analyzed the website’s HTML code, which indicated that the article was published on Monday at 12:09 a.m. Moscow time.
Seconds after CNN read the original article — at 9:56 p.m. Moscow time, according to the HTML code — the story was updated and all references to the death count were removed. That update on the outlet’s website came shortly after the article began to get attention from social media posts, which referenced the death count.
Date: 23/03/2022 05:01:26
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1863926
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin’s fascists: The Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis
Yeah, typical Putin, war criminal, abroad and at home.
No regard for his own people, and they do nothing, but look at propaganda.
Date: 23/03/2022 05:07:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1863928
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putin’s fascists: The Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis
Yeah, typical Putin, war criminal, abroad and at home.
No regard for his own people, and they do nothing, but look at propaganda.
I wish the Russians would get off their arse and do something.
Date: 23/03/2022 06:58:39
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863936
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putin’s fascists: The Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis
Yeah, typical Putin, war criminal, abroad and at home.
No regard for his own people, and they do nothing, but look at propaganda.
I wish the Russians would get off their arse and do something.
Why should they?
As far as they’ve been told, and as the majority of them understand it, Russia is doing the right thing in Ukraine for the best of motives, it’s armed forces are doing spectacularly well, and at little cost to Russia.
Date: 23/03/2022 07:13:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1863939
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putin’s fascists: The Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis
Yeah, typical Putin, war criminal, abroad and at home.
No regard for his own people, and they do nothing, but look at propaganda.
I wish the Russians would get off their arse and do something.
Why should they?
As far as they’ve been told, and as the majority of them understand it, Russia is doing the right thing in Ukraine for the best of motives, it’s armed forces are doing spectacularly well, and at little cost to Russia.
A flamboyant capitalist who owns a billion dollar yacht, billion dollar palace/mansion. takes 50 percent off Russia’s top 50 richest, surrounds himself with a gang right wing extremists, running a brainwashed communist country.
Something like that?
Date: 23/03/2022 08:06:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1863950
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I wish the Russians would get off their arse and do something.
Why should they?
As far as they’ve been told, and as the majority of them understand it, Russia is doing the right thing in Ukraine for the best of motives, it’s armed forces are doing spectacularly well, and at little cost to Russia.
A flamboyant capitalist who owns a billion dollar yacht, billion dollar palace/mansion. takes 50 percent off Russia’s top 50 richest, surrounds himself with a gang right wing extremists, running a brainwashed communist country.
Something like that?
Now, that’s a non sequitur.
Date: 23/03/2022 08:43:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1863954
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia’s security policy dictates that the country would only use nuclear weapons if its very existence were threatened, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has told CNN.
The comment, nearly four weeks after Russia sent its forces into Ukraine, came amid Western concern that the conflict there could escalate into a nuclear war.
Mr Peskov made the comment when asked whether he was confident President Vladimir Putin would not use nuclear weapons.
“We have a concept of domestic security and it’s public, you can read all the reasons for nuclear arms to be used. So if it is an existential threat for our country, then it (the nuclear arsenal) can be used in accordance with our concept,” he said.
“There are no other reasons that were mentioned in that text,” he said in a further reference to the country’s security concept.
> thing is, in Pootin’s eyes, Russia is threatened simply by the existence of Ukraine.
Date: 23/03/2022 10:05:55
From: dv
ID: 1863983
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putin’s fascists: The Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis
Yeah, typical Putin, war criminal, abroad and at home.
No regard for his own people, and they do nothing, but look at propaganda.
I wish the Russians would get off their arse and do something.
Why should they?
Because it is crippling them financially.
Date: 23/03/2022 10:14:38
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1863984
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I wish the Russians would get off their arse and do something.
Why should they?
Because it is crippling them financially.
so we mean they’re rendered economically unable to take action
Date: 23/03/2022 10:19:10
From: dv
ID: 1863985
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
Why should they?
Because it is crippling them financially.
so we mean they’re rendered economically unable to take action
Well not just that, I mean you have to be pretty committed to cop 15 years in prison.
Date: 23/03/2022 11:28:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864001
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-23/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskyy-putin-kyiv-mariupol/100930954
White House said on Tuesday it had not seen any evidence of China providing military equipment to Russia.
propaganda
Date: 23/03/2022 11:39:54
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864011
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
At Least When The USSA Does It, It’s Because They’re Being Invaded By Criminals And Drug Dealers And Rapists

Date: 23/03/2022 11:42:50
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864016
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 23/03/2022 11:52:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864021
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

disclaimer: we haven’t checked sources

Date: 23/03/2022 11:55:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864023
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Belgian Peacekeeping

Australian Peacekeeping

Date: 23/03/2022 12:07:53
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864031
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Mild Omicron-Class Nuclear Warheads

Date: 23/03/2022 12:33:58
From: dv
ID: 1864037
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:

Ref
Date: 23/03/2022 12:45:13
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864040
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:

Ref
sorry the linked article is at https://www.itv.com/news/2022-03-22/no-one-died-for-brexit-ex-ukraine-leader-asks-pm-to-please-avoid-comparison but we aren’t Brexit scholars so we can’t make a fair representation about the Brexit claim that we presume you’re talking about
Date: 23/03/2022 15:15:46
From: dv
ID: 1864093
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Date: 23/03/2022 16:15:49
From: sibeen
ID: 1864098
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Was having that discussion with an ex-army mate on the weekend. All a bit surreal.
Date: 23/03/2022 16:22:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864100
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Was having that discussion with an ex-army mate on the weekend. All a bit surreal.
It’s been a topic of discussion in many places:
‘So, this is the Red Army/Russian Army we’ve been worried about for so many decades? Looks like the military re-enactors clubs could clean them up before afternoon tea, given a bit of air support’.
Date: 23/03/2022 16:25:34
From: Michael V
ID: 1864102
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Do you have a reference for this?
Date: 23/03/2022 16:28:11
From: sibeen
ID: 1864105
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Do you have a reference for this?
Russia vs Ukraine war 2022.
Date: 23/03/2022 16:31:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864106
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Do you have a reference for this?
Russia vs Ukraine war 2022.
If the Ukrainians could have had some reasonable air support of their own, it would probably have been all over long before this.
Those nose-to-tail columns of Russian vehicles… would have set many a strike pilot a-quiver with excitement.
Date: 23/03/2022 16:35:04
From: sibeen
ID: 1864107
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
Do you have a reference for this?
Russia vs Ukraine war 2022.
If the Ukrainians could have had some reasonable air support of their own, it would probably have been all over long before this.
Those nose-to-tail columns of Russian vehicles… would have set many a strike pilot a-quiver with excitement.
There was quite a few Ukrainian ground troops who also became a-quiver.
Date: 23/03/2022 16:46:23
From: Woodie
ID: 1864110
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
Russia vs Ukraine war 2022.
If the Ukrainians could have had some reasonable air support of their own, it would probably have been all over long before this.
Those nose-to-tail columns of Russian vehicles… would have set many a strike pilot a-quiver with excitement.
There was quite a few Ukrainian ground troops who also became a-quiver.
Perhaps Pootee has got it just right. Just enough to annoy the shit out of NATO, but not have them do anything about it, and just enough to scare the shit out of Ukrania for a cuppla months, or even a year or two or more. Step by step, inch by inch, and before ya know it, they’re all Matroyshkaed. Cost? A cuppla oligarch’s yachts, and no Maccas for a while.
Date: 23/03/2022 17:04:10
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1864115
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Was having that discussion with an ex-army mate on the weekend. All a bit surreal.
The obvious question is why not do that then?
… but maybe not such a great idea.
Date: 23/03/2022 17:04:43
From: Woodie
ID: 1864116
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
sibeen said:
captain_spalding said:
If the Ukrainians could have had some reasonable air support of their own, it would probably have been all over long before this.
Those nose-to-tail columns of Russian vehicles… would have set many a strike pilot a-quiver with excitement.
There was quite a few Ukrainian ground troops who also became a-quiver.
Perhaps Pootee has got it just right. Just enough to annoy the shit out of NATO, but not have them do anything about it, and just enough to scare the shit out of Ukrania for a cuppla months, or even a year or two or more. Step by step, inch by inch, and before ya know it, they’re all Matroyshkaed. Cost? A cuppla oligarch’s yachts, and no Maccas for a while.
Anyway, they’ll probably just commandeer all those empty Maccas and reopen them as McDonski. With a Big Mackov and Pootin Fries on the menu. I wouldn’t put it past ‘em, hey what but.
Date: 23/03/2022 17:05:43
From: dv
ID: 1864117
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Was having that discussion with an ex-army mate on the weekend. All a bit surreal.
The obvious question is why not do that then?
… but maybe not such a great idea.
I guess because of the risk that it doesn’t stay a conventional war.
Date: 23/03/2022 17:10:24
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1864118
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Yep, NATO has some shit hot fourth generation aircraft and a lot of them, however Putin might press the red button.
Date: 23/03/2022 17:18:24
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1864119
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Yep, NATO has some shit hot fourth generation aircraft and a lot of them, however Putin might press the red button.
I use this one on the SSSF FB page.

Date: 23/03/2022 18:11:32
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864140
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
Kind of weird to find out that if there really were a war between NATO forces and Russia using conventional weapons, it would be over in like an hour.
Was having that discussion with an ex-army mate on the weekend. All a bit surreal.
It’s been a topic of discussion in many places:
‘So, this is the Red Army/Russian Army we’ve been worried about for so many decades? Looks like the military re-enactors clubs could clean them up before afternoon tea, given a bit of air support’.
The obvious question is why not do that then?
… but maybe not such a great idea.
I guess because of the risk that it doesn’t stay a conventional war.
so
One, turns out that military power is tied to economic size, and nobody would have expected Australia standing alone to be able to take on NATO either so is surprise real ¿
Two, you all say that escalation would be bad but are conventional forces failures due to prioritisation of resourcing to escalated forces, guess we’ll find out that Ukraine really does have nuclear weapons soon after all.
Date: 23/03/2022 18:14:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864142
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
turns out that military power is tied to economic size,
sorry we meant to say, who knew
Date: 23/03/2022 18:20:30
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1864143
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
turns out that military power is tied to economic size,
sorry we meant to say, who knew
Mum. Mum knew.
Date: 23/03/2022 18:59:23
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1864145
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/mar/23/sales-of-anti-pm-stickers-surge-after-council-threatens-rubbish-services
Link
:-)
Date: 23/03/2022 23:42:31
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1864211
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1506505665342320641
“JAKARTA, March 23 (Reuters) – Russian President Vladimir Putin intends to attend a G20 summit being hosted by Indonesia later this year, Russia’s ambassador in Jakarta said on Wednesday, following calls by some members for the country to be barred from the group.”
On the assumption that he does turn up, what is the process if the ICC wish to have a word with Putin?
Date: 23/03/2022 23:48:50
From: party_pants
ID: 1864214
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1506505665342320641
“JAKARTA, March 23 (Reuters) – Russian President Vladimir Putin intends to attend a G20 summit being hosted by Indonesia later this year, Russia’s ambassador in Jakarta said on Wednesday, following calls by some members for the country to be barred from the group.”
On the assumption that he does turn up, what is the process if the ICC wish to have a word with Putin?
the International Cricket Council?
Date: 24/03/2022 00:09:37
From: dv
ID: 1864222
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The works of fascist philosopher Ivan Ilyin are central to Putin’s personal philosophy. He has taken great pains to rehabilitate and honour Ilyin, and Ilyin might be the key to understanding Putin’s mindset.
https://www.openculture.com/2018/06/an-introduction-to-ivan-ilyin.html
https://headway.media/ivan-ilyin-putins-philosopher-of-russian-fascism/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin
Ilyin’s works about Russia
In exile, Ivan Ilyin argued that Russia should not be judged by what he called the Communist danger it represented at that time but looked forward to a future in which it would liberate itself with the help of Christian fascism.: 21 Starting from his 1918 thesis on Hegel’s philosophy, he authored many books on political, social and spiritual topics pertaining to the historical mission of Russia. One of the problems he worked on was the question: what has eventually led Russia to the tragedy of the revolution? He answered that the reason was “the weak, damaged self-respect” of Russians.
View on fascism and antisemitism
A number of Ilyin’s works (including those written after the German defeat in 1945) advocated fascism. Ilyin initially saw Adolf Hitler as a defender of civilization from Bolshevism and approved of the way Hitler had, in his view, derived his antisemitism from the ideology of the Russian Whites.: 20 In 1933, he published an article titled “National Socialism. A New Spirit” in support of the takeover of Germany by Nazis.
Ilyin was accused of antisemitism by Roman Gul, a fellow émigré writer. According to a letter by Gul to Ilyin, the former expressed extreme umbrage at Ilyin’s suspicions that all those who disagreed with him were Jews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfVYiHY7lok
“In exile, he formulated a vision for a very Russian form of Fascism, which he called Redemptive. Ilyin ended up leaving Germany before the war began and died in Switzerland in obscurity in 1954. Now you might think a Russian exile who was an apologist for Nazism wouldn’t have much support in Russia today: wouldn’t be allowed to have much influence given to what Hitler and the Nazis did to Russia. Tens of millions of Russians died in WWII. Today, Moscow ties to justify its illegal war in Ukraine by falsely claiming they’re once again fighting the Nazis and yet since the fall of the Berlin wall and the end of Soviet Communism, Russian Elites have been turning to Ivan Ilyin, the Nazi Apologist, in increasing numbers. One particular Russian has led the campaign to rehabilitate this long dead far-right philosopher and his name is Vladimir Putin. In 2005, President Putin, who was obsessed with restoring Russia’s Imperial past, repatriated Ilyin’s remains to Moscow. On the same day that Putin laid flowers at Ilyin’s grave in 2009, he declared and I quote, “It’s a crime when someone only begins talking about the separation of Russia and the Ukraine. Putin was echoing the Russian nationalism of Ilyin who referred to Ukrainians in question marks, and who thought in Time Snyder’s words, to speak of Ukraine was to be a mortal enemy of Russia. In 2006 Putin reclaimed for Russia Ilyin’s personal papers from Michigan State University where they ended up… By then, Putin was citing Ilyin in his addresses to the General Assembly of the Russian Parliament. Putin relied on Ilyin’s authority to explain why Russia had to undermine the European Union and invade Ukraine. By 2014 the Kremlin was sending copies of Ilyin’s writings to regional governors as well as Russian civil servants. … So if a fascist political philosopher is a guiding light, an inspiration for the Russian president, what does that mean for Putin himself.”
Date: 24/03/2022 07:42:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1864239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
The works of fascist philosopher Ivan Ilyin are central to Putin’s personal philosophy. He has taken great pains to rehabilitate and honour Ilyin, and Ilyin might be the key to understanding Putin’s mindset.
https://www.openculture.com/2018/06/an-introduction-to-ivan-ilyin.html
https://headway.media/ivan-ilyin-putins-philosopher-of-russian-fascism/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin
Ilyin’s works about Russia
In exile, Ivan Ilyin argued that Russia should not be judged by what he called the Communist danger it represented at that time but looked forward to a future in which it would liberate itself with the help of Christian fascism.: 21 Starting from his 1918 thesis on Hegel’s philosophy, he authored many books on political, social and spiritual topics pertaining to the historical mission of Russia. One of the problems he worked on was the question: what has eventually led Russia to the tragedy of the revolution? He answered that the reason was “the weak, damaged self-respect” of Russians.
View on fascism and antisemitism
A number of Ilyin’s works (including those written after the German defeat in 1945) advocated fascism. Ilyin initially saw Adolf Hitler as a defender of civilization from Bolshevism and approved of the way Hitler had, in his view, derived his antisemitism from the ideology of the Russian Whites.: 20 In 1933, he published an article titled “National Socialism. A New Spirit” in support of the takeover of Germany by Nazis.
Ilyin was accused of antisemitism by Roman Gul, a fellow émigré writer. According to a letter by Gul to Ilyin, the former expressed extreme umbrage at Ilyin’s suspicions that all those who disagreed with him were Jews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfVYiHY7lok
“In exile, he formulated a vision for a very Russian form of Fascism, which he called Redemptive. Ilyin ended up leaving Germany before the war began and died in Switzerland in obscurity in 1954. Now you might think a Russian exile who was an apologist for Nazism wouldn’t have much support in Russia today: wouldn’t be allowed to have much influence given to what Hitler and the Nazis did to Russia. Tens of millions of Russians died in WWII. Today, Moscow ties to justify its illegal war in Ukraine by falsely claiming they’re once again fighting the Nazis and yet since the fall of the Berlin wall and the end of Soviet Communism, Russian Elites have been turning to Ivan Ilyin, the Nazi Apologist, in increasing numbers. One particular Russian has led the campaign to rehabilitate this long dead far-right philosopher and his name is Vladimir Putin. In 2005, President Putin, who was obsessed with restoring Russia’s Imperial past, repatriated Ilyin’s remains to Moscow. On the same day that Putin laid flowers at Ilyin’s grave in 2009, he declared and I quote, “It’s a crime when someone only begins talking about the separation of Russia and the Ukraine. Putin was echoing the Russian nationalism of Ilyin who referred to Ukrainians in question marks, and who thought in Time Snyder’s words, to speak of Ukraine was to be a mortal enemy of Russia. In 2006 Putin reclaimed for Russia Ilyin’s personal papers from Michigan State University where they ended up… By then, Putin was citing Ilyin in his addresses to the General Assembly of the Russian Parliament. Putin relied on Ilyin’s authority to explain why Russia had to undermine the European Union and invade Ukraine. By 2014 the Kremlin was sending copies of Ilyin’s writings to regional governors as well as Russian civil servants. … So if a fascist political philosopher is a guiding light, an inspiration for the Russian president, what does that mean for Putin himself.”
It means that poo tin is cray cray
Date: 24/03/2022 08:22:24
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1864245
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The man known as ‘Putin’s brain’ envisions the splitting of Europe — and the fall of China
By David Von Drehle
Columnist
Yesterday at 4:47 p.m. EDT
On the eve of his murderous invasion, Russian President Vladimir Putin delivered a long and rambling discourse denying the existence of Ukraine and Ukrainians, a speech many Western analysts found strange and untethered. Strange, yes. Untethered, no. The analysis came directly from the works of a fascist prophet of maximal Russian empire named Aleksandr Dugin.
Dugin’s intellectual influence over the Russian leader is well known to close students of the post-Soviet period, among whom Dugin, 60, is sometimes referred to as “Putin’s brain.” His work is also familiar to Europe’s “new right,” of which Dugin has been a leading figure for nearly three decades, and to America’s “alt-right.” Indeed, the Russian-born former wife of the white nationalist leader Richard Spencer, Nina Kouprianova, has translated some of Dugin’s work into English.
But as the world watches with horror and disgust the indiscriminate bombing of Ukraine, a broader understanding is needed of Dugin’s deadly ideas. Russia has been running his playbook for the past 20 years, and it has brought us here, to the brink of another world war.
A product of late-period Soviet decline, Dugin belongs to the long, dismal line of political theorists who invent a strong and glorious past — infused with mysticism and obedient to authority — to explain a failed present. The future lies in reclaiming this past from the liberal, commercial, cosmopolitan present (often represented by the Jewish people). Such thinkers had a heyday a century ago, in the European wreckage of World War I: Julius Evola, the mad monk of Italian fascism; Charles Maurras, the reactionary French nationalist; Charles Coughlin, the American radio ranter; and even the author of a German book called “Mein Kampf.”
Dugin tells essentially the same story from a Russian point of view. Before modernity ruined everything, a spiritually motivated Russian people promised to unite Europe and Asia into one great empire, appropriately ruled by ethnic Russians. Alas, a competing sea-based empire of corrupt, money-grubbing individualists, led by the United States and Britain, thwarted Russia’s destiny and brought “Eurasia” — his term for the future Russian empire — low.
In his magnum opus, “The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia,” published in 1997, Dugin mapped out the game plan in detail. Russian agents should foment racial, religious and sectional divisions within the United States while promoting the United States’ isolationist factions. (Sound familiar?) In Great Britain, the psy-ops effort should focus on exacerbating historic rifts with Continental Europe and separatist movements in Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Western Europe, meanwhile, should be drawn in Russia’s direction by the lure of natural resources: oil, gas and food. NATO would collapse from within.
Putin has followed that counsel to the letter, and he must have felt things were going well when he saw window-smashing rioters in the corridors of the U.S. Congress, Britain’s Brexit from the European Union and Germany’s growing dependence on Russian natural gas. With the undermining of the West going so well, Putin has turned to the pages of Dugin’s text in which he declared: “Ukraine as an independent state with certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia,” and “without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics.”
So what comes next, should Putin manage to “resolve” Russia’s “problem” in Ukraine? Dugin envisions a gradual dividing of Europe into zones of German and Russian influence, with Russia very much in charge thanks to its eventual stranglehold over Germany’s resource needs. As Great Britain crumbles and Russia picks up the pieces, the empire of Eurasia will ultimately stretch, in Dugin’s words, “from Dublin to Vladisvostok.”
Putin’s double-dealing encroachments into the Middle East are influenced by Dugin’s idea of a Moscow-Tehran axis. (Israel’s government should wake up, smell the samovar and stop playing footsie with Russia.) His seduction of the nationalist government in New Delhi is a reflection of Dugin’s insistence that the Eurasian empire must extend to the Indian Ocean.
As important as it is for Western decision-makers to take Dugin’s mystical megalomania seriously, it’s just as urgent for China’s Xi Jinping. Xi and Putin announced a partnership last month to cut the United States down to size. But according to Dugin, China, too, must fall. Russia’s ambitions in Asia will require “the territorial disintegration, splintering and the political and administrative partition of the state,” Dugin writes. Russia’s natural partner in the Far East, according to Dugin, is Japan.
In a sense, Dugin’s 600-page doorstop can be boiled down to one idea: The wrong alliance won World War II. If only Hitler had not invaded Russia, Britain could have been broken. The United States would have remained at home, isolationist and divided, and Japan would have ruled the former China as Russia’s junior partner.
Fascism from Ireland to the Pacific. Delusional? I sure hope so. But delusions become important when embraced by tyrants.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/22/alexander-dugin-author-putin-deady-playbook/?
Date: 24/03/2022 09:57:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1864275
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia death told could be 15,000 – Nato
Nato estimates that between 7,000 and 15,000 Russian soldiers have been killed since the beginning of the war.
By way of comparison, Russia lost about 15,000 troops over 10 years in Afghanistan.
Guardian Live
Date: 24/03/2022 10:03:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1864276
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin adviser Anatoly Chubais quits and leaves Russia over invasion of Ukraine
A prominent adviser to Vladimir Putin has resigned from the government and reportedly left Russia in the highest-ranking defection yet over the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine.
Anatoly Chubais, the Kremlin’s special envoy for relations with international organisations for sustainable development, was confirmed on Wednesday to have left the government.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-anatoly-chubais-quits-leaves-russia-invasion-ukraine
Date: 24/03/2022 10:11:54
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864278
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Putin adviser Anatoly Chubais quits and leaves Russia over invasion of Ukraine
A prominent adviser to Vladimir Putin has resigned from the government and reportedly left Russia in the highest-ranking defection yet over the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine.
Anatoly Chubais, the Kremlin’s special envoy for relations with international organisations for sustainable development, was confirmed on Wednesday to have left the government.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-anatoly-chubais-quits-leaves-russia-invasion-ukraine
oh man hope he isn’t looking for his fiancé there, him gunna gotta watch out for doctors carrying bone saws
Date: 24/03/2022 10:15:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864280
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Bubblecar said:
Putin adviser Anatoly Chubais quits and leaves Russia over invasion of Ukraine
A prominent adviser to Vladimir Putin has resigned from the government and reportedly left Russia in the highest-ranking defection yet over the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine.
Anatoly Chubais, the Kremlin’s special envoy for relations with international organisations for sustainable development, was confirmed on Wednesday to have left the government.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-anatoly-chubais-quits-leaves-russia-invasion-ukraine
oh man hope he isn’t looking for his fiancé there, him gunna gotta watch out for doctors carrying bone saws
People with umbrellas on railway platforms, radioactive sushi, blokes with Slavic accents in town ‘just to see the cathedral’…
Date: 24/03/2022 14:07:12
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1864371
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has announced a new support package for Ukraine, with about 6,000 new defensive missiles.
Mr Johnson also announced $53 million to support the BBC’s coverage of the war and to pay Ukrainian soldiers and pilots.”
Getting paid is nice.
Date: 24/03/2022 14:10:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864373
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
“British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has announced a new support package for Ukraine, with about 6,000 new defensive missiles.
Mr Johnson also announced $53 million to support the BBC’s coverage of the war and to pay Ukrainian soldiers and pilots.”
Getting paid is nice.
Won’t the fliers in the Voyenno-vozdushnye sily Rossii be pleased to hear about the six thousand missiles.
Date: 24/03/2022 14:40:57
From: dv
ID: 1864391
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Putin adviser Anatoly Chubais quits and leaves Russia over invasion of Ukraine
A prominent adviser to Vladimir Putin has resigned from the government and reportedly left Russia in the highest-ranking defection yet over the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine.
Anatoly Chubais, the Kremlin’s special envoy for relations with international organisations for sustainable development, was confirmed on Wednesday to have left the government.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-anatoly-chubais-quits-leaves-russia-invasion-ukraine
Probably needs to tidy up some financial affairs
Date: 24/03/2022 14:42:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1864392
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Putin adviser Anatoly Chubais quits and leaves Russia over invasion of Ukraine
A prominent adviser to Vladimir Putin has resigned from the government and reportedly left Russia in the highest-ranking defection yet over the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine.
Anatoly Chubais, the Kremlin’s special envoy for relations with international organisations for sustainable development, was confirmed on Wednesday to have left the government.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-anatoly-chubais-quits-leaves-russia-invasion-ukraine
Probably needs to tidy up some financial affairs
There will probably be more.
Date: 24/03/2022 15:52:56
From: dv
ID: 1864421
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Gordon Brown and John Major back Nuremberg-style tribunal for Putin
Former PMs join campaign calling for trial of Russian president and those around him over invasion of Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/19/gordon-brown-john-major-back-nuremberg-style-tribunal-vladimir-putin
Date: 24/03/2022 15:55:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1864422
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Gordon Brown and John Major back Nuremberg-style tribunal for Putin
Former PMs join campaign calling for trial of Russian president and those around him over invasion of Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/19/gordon-brown-john-major-back-nuremberg-style-tribunal-vladimir-putin
All very well but who’s going to arrest them?
Date: 24/03/2022 16:24:55
From: dv
ID: 1864429
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
20 to 25% of the deployed Russian troops are conscripts. They are suffering from a lack of food, a lot of them are sitting ducks, and some have frostbite (worth remembering that even in late March the overnight temperatures in northern Ukraine are subzero). The current batch of conscripts was due to end their tours in April but Putin has since authorised extensions to their tours.
https://youtu.be/7T9mTX9LNHo
Date: 24/03/2022 16:32:24
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1864431
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
20 to 25% of the deployed Russian troops are conscripts. They are suffering from a lack of food, a lot of them are sitting ducks, and some have frostbite (worth remembering that even in late March the overnight temperatures in northern Ukraine are subzero). The current batch of conscripts was due to end their tours in April but Putin has since authorised extensions to their tours.
https://youtu.be/7T9mTX9LNHo
Intercepted communications revealed one field officer complaining that 50% of his troops had frostbite.
Morale can’t be very high.
Date: 24/03/2022 16:34:36
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1864433
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Gordon Brown and John Major back Nuremberg-style tribunal for Putin
Former PMs join campaign calling for trial of Russian president and those around him over invasion of Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/19/gordon-brown-john-major-back-nuremberg-style-tribunal-vladimir-putin
All very well but who’s going to arrest them?

Date: 24/03/2022 16:37:17
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1864434
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Gordon Brown and John Major back Nuremberg-style tribunal for Putin
Former PMs join campaign calling for trial of Russian president and those around him over invasion of Ukraine
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/19/gordon-brown-john-major-back-nuremberg-style-tribunal-vladimir-putin
All very well but who’s going to arrest them?

Matt Damon!
Date: 24/03/2022 16:42:00
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1864435
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
All very well but who’s going to arrest them?

Matt Damon!
But in all seriousness, just who would arrest a head of state? What authority would they have if the minders decided to resist the arrest?
Date: 24/03/2022 16:50:38
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1864436
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:

Matt Damon!
But in all seriousness, just who would arrest a head of state? What authority would they have if the minders decided to resist the arrest?
This head of state was arrested by US troops, but only after they’d conquered the country in question.

Date: 24/03/2022 16:53:30
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1864438
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Matt Damon!
But in all seriousness, just who would arrest a head of state? What authority would they have if the minders decided to resist the arrest?
This head of state was arrested by US troops, but only after they’d conquered the country in question.

It could be argued that he was not really the head of state at the time of his arrest.
Date: 24/03/2022 16:57:33
From: dv
ID: 1864441
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:

Matt Damon!
But in all seriousness, just who would arrest a head of state? What authority would they have if the minders decided to resist the arrest?
There’s some chance he won’t be head of state much longer
Date: 24/03/2022 17:06:45
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1864443
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:

Matt Damon!
But in all seriousness, just who would arrest a head of state? What authority would they have if the minders decided to resist the arrest?
It took 20 years for the perpetrators of the Bosnian War to see justice. I can’t imagine Putin would be able to travel much if he’s up on charges in most of the western world.
Date: 24/03/2022 19:13:02
From: dv
ID: 1864487
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
One sad thing is that expansionism seems very widespread in Russia. Even the real opposition in Russia is riddled with folks who would like to nab territory from Russia’s neighbours. Navalny, obviously, but even left wing social democratic figures such as Udaltsov. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for the view that Russia has plenty of territory already and maybe they should focus on making that work.
Date: 24/03/2022 19:18:08
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864490
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
One sad thing is that expansionism seems very widespread in Russia. Even the real opposition in Russia is riddled with folks who would like to nab territory from Russia’s neighbours. Navalny, obviously, but even left wing social democratic figures such as Udaltsov. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for the view that Russia has plenty of territory already and maybe they should focus on making that work.
But that would take investment, planning, organisation, labour incentives, all sorts of costs to the state and to the oligarchs to whom the territories and resources would be gifted by Putin and his mob.
Far easier to use the peasantry’s lives to take what’s already got some value from the people who developed it.
Date: 24/03/2022 19:21:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1864492
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
One sad thing is that expansionism seems very widespread in Russia. Even the real opposition in Russia is riddled with folks who would like to nab territory from Russia’s neighbours. Navalny, obviously, but even left wing social democratic figures such as Udaltsov. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for the view that Russia has plenty of territory already and maybe they should focus on making that work.
Long been a tradition of aggressive imperialism in Russia, including of course the communists, although they called their nationalism “internationalism” (because there’s also been a long tradition of extreme dishonesty amongst Russian leaders).
Date: 24/03/2022 19:48:28
From: Kingy
ID: 1864506
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It appears that the Russki’s are losing ground.
One would hope that they lose all of Ukraines ground.
Date: 24/03/2022 20:04:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1864510
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian Navy sinks this Russian ship:

Near the port of Berdyansk on the morning of March 24, the Ukrainian Navy destroyed a Russian large landing ship of Russian troops.
That’s according to the Ukrainian Navy, Ukrinform reports.
“The Orsk large landing ship of the Russian occupiers was destroyed near the port of Berdiansk,” the statement said.
Locals report two powerful explosions at 6:40 on Thursday. The blasts were heard throughout the city.
As reported earlier, Russian invaders see the port of Berdiansk as strategically important for delivering equipment, ammunition, and manpower to the southern regions of Ukraine.
Thousands of people have been protesting against Russia occupation in the city captured by the invaders.
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3438353-russian-landing-ship-destroyed-in-ukraines-black-sea-port-of-berdiansk.html
Date: 24/03/2022 20:12:01
From: Michael V
ID: 1864511
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Ukrainian Navy sinks this Russian ship:

Near the port of Berdyansk on the morning of March 24, the Ukrainian Navy destroyed a Russian large landing ship of Russian troops.
That’s according to the Ukrainian Navy, Ukrinform reports.
“The Orsk large landing ship of the Russian occupiers was destroyed near the port of Berdiansk,” the statement said.
Locals report two powerful explosions at 6:40 on Thursday. The blasts were heard throughout the city.
As reported earlier, Russian invaders see the port of Berdiansk as strategically important for delivering equipment, ammunition, and manpower to the southern regions of Ukraine.
Thousands of people have been protesting against Russia occupation in the city captured by the invaders.
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3438353-russian-landing-ship-destroyed-in-ukraines-black-sea-port-of-berdiansk.html
That’ll be expensive to replace.
Date: 24/03/2022 20:41:27
From: Kingy
ID: 1864524
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Even if half of this is true, that’s a fair chunk of the Russian military lost in this 3 day “Special Military Operation”.
Apparently, several of Pootins top level staff have already resigned or left.

Date: 24/03/2022 21:13:22
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1864536
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Kingy said:
Even if half of this is true, that’s a fair chunk of the Russian military lost in this 3 day “Special Military Operation”.
Apparently, several of Pootins top level staff have already resigned or left.

That hardware alone is a massive cost. The human cost is far worse though. :(
Date: 24/03/2022 21:16:00
From: Kingy
ID: 1864538
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It’s not going well for the Russkies.

Date: 24/03/2022 21:46:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864551
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Firstly, i’m surprised to learn that the Alligator class are still in commission. They’d be very long in the tooth by now (although not a bad design).
And if they lose a Ropucha (no spring chickens, either)…big loss there.
Date: 24/03/2022 22:35:51
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1864568
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Ukrainian Navy sinks this Russian ship:

Near the port of Berdyansk on the morning of March 24, the Ukrainian Navy destroyed a Russian large landing ship of Russian troops.
That’s according to the Ukrainian Navy, Ukrinform reports.
“The Orsk large landing ship of the Russian occupiers was destroyed near the port of Berdiansk,” the statement said.
Locals report two powerful explosions at 6:40 on Thursday. The blasts were heard throughout the city.
As reported earlier, Russian invaders see the port of Berdiansk as strategically important for delivering equipment, ammunition, and manpower to the southern regions of Ukraine.
Thousands of people have been protesting against Russia occupation in the city captured by the invaders.
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3438353-russian-landing-ship-destroyed-in-ukraines-black-sea-port-of-berdiansk.html
That’ll be expensive to replace.
All the troops on board will be the “expensive” bit :(
Date: 24/03/2022 22:41:20
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864573
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
Bubblecar said:
Spiny Norman said:
Kingy said:
Even if half of this is true, that’s a fair chunk of the Russian military lost in this 3 day “Special Military Operation”.
Apparently, several of Pootins top level staff have already resigned or left.

That hardware alone is a massive cost. The human cost is far worse though. :(
Ukrainian Navy sinks this Russian ship:

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3438353-russian-landing-ship-destroyed-in-ukraines-black-sea-port-of-berdiansk.html
That’ll be expensive to replace.
All the troops on board will be the “expensive” bit :(
One, human troops are not expensive, they’re expenses, conferatur: you all must die for The Economy Must Grow.
Two, machines don’t live off potatoes and heal themselves after they’re damaged.
Date: 24/03/2022 22:43:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864578
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
That’ll be expensive to replace.
All the troops on board will be the “expensive” bit :(
Alligator class are all like 40 – 50 years old now. Depreciated to nil. Not that many left in service, but still useful.
Troops? Meh,conscript some more. Russia has always had plenty to put into the meat grinder.
Date: 24/03/2022 22:44:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864581
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Two, machines don’t live off potatoes and heal themselves after they’re damaged.
Machines don’t get healed after ka-booms like the one in the video. They get found, piece by piece around the landscape in the ensuing decades.
Date: 24/03/2022 22:45:26
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864582
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
That’ll be expensive to replace.
All the troops on board will be the “expensive” bit :(
One, human troops are not expensive, they’re expenses, conferatur: you all must die for The Economy Must Grow.
Two, machines don’t live off potatoes and heal themselves after they’re damaged.
Alligator class are all like 40 – 50 years old now. Depreciated to nil. Not that many left in service, but still useful.
Troops? Meh,conscript some more. Russia has always had plenty to put into the meat grinder.
good point, we forgot
Three, machines don’t fuck around slash rape and pillage the locals and produce more copies of machines.
Date: 24/03/2022 22:49:06
From: sibeen
ID: 1864585
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
Michael V said:
That’ll be expensive to replace.
All the troops on board will be the “expensive” bit :(
Alligator class are all like 40 – 50 years old now. Depreciated to nil. Not that many left in service, but still useful.
Troops? Meh,conscript some more. Russia has always had plenty to put into the meat grinder.
Not with their demographics and fertility rate they haven’t.
Date: 24/03/2022 22:52:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864590
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
captain_spalding said:
Dark Orange said:
All the troops on board will be the “expensive” bit :(
Alligator class are all like 40 – 50 years old now. Depreciated to nil. Not that many left in service, but still useful.
Troops? Meh,conscript some more. Russia has always had plenty to put into the meat grinder.
Not with their demographics and fertility rate they haven’t.
But, you forget, these are modern times, days of equality, and Russia has a proud tradition of deeming the distaff portion of society to be as good at stopping bullets as is the masculine sector of the population.
Date: 25/03/2022 01:03:53
From: sibeen
ID: 1864714
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Nato leaders have agreed to strengthen their defences in the east in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
In a joint statement following a meeting in Brussels, they said:
In response to Russia’s actions, we have activated NATO’s defence plans, deployed elements of the NATO Response Force, and placed 40,000 troops on our eastern flank, along with significant air and naval assets, under direct NATO command supported by Allies’ national deployments.
Nato’s actions remain “preventive, proportionate, and non-escalatory” in preparation for “a more dangerous strategic reality”
We will also significantly strengthen our longer term deterrence and defence posture and will further develop the full range of ready forces and capabilities necessary to maintain credible deterrence and defence.
These steps will be supported by enhanced exercises with an increased focus on collective defence and interoperability.
In reality, all around western Europe, they are thinking “fuck me, a decent teddy bears picnic at any border should scare the Russkies off”.
Date: 25/03/2022 01:15:18
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1864715
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The New York Times
29 mins ·
An oak tree in Russia, said to have been planted 198 years ago by the novelist Ivan Turgenev, was disqualified from the European Tree of the Year competition over the country’s invasion of Ukraine. A 400-year-old oak tree in Poland took the top spot.
Date: 25/03/2022 01:35:55
From: dv
ID: 1864716
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
CNN)A rare face-to-face meeting between Russian and US military officials last week led to an “outburst” of emotion from a normally stoic Russian general, a “revealing moment” that the Americans present believe hinted at larger morale problems in Russia’s military, according to a closely held US military readout of what transpired.
—-
It makes particular note of the behavior of Russian Major General Yevgeny Ilyin, deputy chief of the main directorate of international cooperation who has a long track record of dealing with American officials. In a break from typical practice, Ilyin spoke with no notes or set talking points, according to the readout.
As the meeting was breaking up, one US defense attaché “casually inquired” about Ilyin’s family roots in Ukraine, and the Russian general’s “stoic demeanor suddenly became flushed and agitated,” according to the readout. The Americans reported Ilyin responded “yes,” and said that he was born in Dnipropetrovsk before moving with his family to Donetsk, where he went to school.
But the US officials reported Ilyin then added that the current situation in Ukraine is “tragic and I am very depressed over it” — and then he walked out without shaking hands, according to the readout.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/23/politics/us-russia-general-meeting/index.html
London (CNN Business)Russia is breaking market rules left and right as its financial isolation deepens.
The latest: Russia’s stock market reopened on Thursday after it was shuttered for a month. Under normal circumstances, there wouldn’t be much demand for shares in Russian companies considering they do most of their business in an economy that some expect to contract by more than 20% this year.
But, surprise! The benchmark MOEX index surged by as much as 10% in early trading. The index was up roughly 5% in afternoon trade in Moscow.
Here’s why: Russia’s stock market isn’t operating under normal rules. The central bank has blocked foreign investors from selling their shares and banned short selling. Only 33 stocks were allowed to trade on Thursday.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/24/investing/premarket-stocks-trading/index.html
Putin wants ‘unfriendly’ countries to pay for Russian gas in rubles
London
Russia will seek payment in rubles for natural gas sold to “unfriendly” countries, President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday, and European gas prices soared on concerns the move would exacerbate the region’s energy crunch.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/24/business/putin-gas-rubles/index.html
Ukrainians claim to have destroyed large Russian warship in Berdyansk
Lviv, Ukraine (CNN)Ukrainian armed forces said they destroyed a large Russian landing ship at the port of Berdyansk in southern Ukraine on Thursday.
The port, which had recently been occupied by Russian forces with several Russian warships in dock, was rocked by a series of heavy explosions soon after dawn.
Social media videos showed fires raging at the dockside, with a series of secondary explosions reverberating across the city.
Date: 25/03/2022 02:00:57
From: dv
ID: 1864723
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/23/europe/ukraine-war-russian-soldiers-deaths-cmd-intl/index.html
Lviv, Ukraine (CNN) — The first warm, sunny days of spring in the southern Mykolaiv region are ushering in a grim new reality: the smell of the dead.
As the frost melts and ground thaws, the bodies of Russian soldiers strewn across the landscape are becoming a problem.
In his nightly video address on Saturday, Vitaly Kim, the region’s governor, called on local residents to help collect the corpses and put them in bags, as temperatures rise to above freezing. “We’re not beasts, are we?” he implored residents, who have already lost so many of their own in this war.
Mykolaiv was among the first regional capitals to be attacked after Russian President Vladimir Putin launched the invasion of Ukraine on February 24. After pushing into the urban center, Russian troops have been forced out by Ukraine’s military, leaving a trail of blackened combat vehicles and tanks in their wake. But the battle for the city, a cornerstone in Russia’s westward quest along the Black Sea coast to Odesa, is still raging and it’s unclear how long Ukrainian forces will be able to fend off the assault.
Date: 25/03/2022 07:34:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1864731
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/23/europe/ukraine-war-russian-soldiers-deaths-cmd-intl/index.html
Lviv, Ukraine (CNN) — The first warm, sunny days of spring in the southern Mykolaiv region are ushering in a grim new reality: the smell of the dead.
As the frost melts and ground thaws, the bodies of Russian soldiers strewn across the landscape are becoming a problem.
In his nightly video address on Saturday, Vitaly Kim, the region’s governor, called on local residents to help collect the corpses and put them in bags, as temperatures rise to above freezing. “We’re not beasts, are we?” he implored residents, who have already lost so many of their own in this war.
Mykolaiv was among the first regional capitals to be attacked after Russian President Vladimir Putin launched the invasion of Ukraine on February 24. After pushing into the urban center, Russian troops have been forced out by Ukraine’s military, leaving a trail of blackened combat vehicles and tanks in their wake. But the battle for the city, a cornerstone in Russia’s westward quest along the Black Sea coast to Odesa, is still raging and it’s unclear how long Ukrainian forces will be able to fend off the assault.
Maybe they should dump them near the stalled Russians. They should be responsible for their own dead.
Date: 25/03/2022 09:39:06
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1864758
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/03/2022 10:53:36
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864789
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
War for profit, if not fun:

Date: 25/03/2022 11:04:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
‘Russians are digging trenches in the Red Forest, Chernobyl exclusion zone chief reported, “I want to wish them from the bottom of my heart – DIG DEEPER, SIT LONGER!”’

Date: 25/03/2022 11:05:16
From: dv
ID: 1864795
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
War for profit, if not fun:

This demilitarisation campaign isn’t going well…
Date: 25/03/2022 11:05:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1864797
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
War for profit, if not fun:

This demilitarisation campaign isn’t going well…
I dunno…Russia seems to be getting demilitarised at reasonably steady pace.
Date: 25/03/2022 11:31:26
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1864806
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/03/2022 11:39:00
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1864810
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:

What genius decided that the length of a “generation” should be reduced to 15 years, when the average age of mothers at birth is now around 30?
Date: 25/03/2022 11:39:56
From: Tamb
ID: 1864811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Peak Warming Man said:

What genius decided that the length of a “generation” should be reduced to 15 years, when the average age of mothers at birth is now around 30?
And prior to 30 it was 20.
Date: 25/03/2022 12:25:01
From: dv
ID: 1864835
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Rev Dodgson said:
Peak Warming Man said:

What genius decided that the length of a “generation” should be reduced to 15 years, when the average age of mothers at birth is now around 30?
Sibeen
Date: 25/03/2022 12:27:52
From: dv
ID: 1864836
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
US President Joe Biden said on Thursday that he believes Russia should be removed from the Group of 20, and that it’s up to Ukraine to decide whether it’s necessary to cede some of its territory in order to reach a ceasefire.
“My answer is yes,” Biden said during a news conference when asked about whether Russia should be removed. “It depends on the G20. That was raised today, and I raised the possibility that, if that can’t be done – if Indonesia and others do not agree – then we should, in my view, ask to have both Ukraine be able to attend the meetings as well as … basically (having) Ukraine being able to attend the G20 meeting and observe.”
The White House had previously declined to weigh in publicly on reports that the US and allies want Russia removed from the group, but left the door open to the possibility. And following reports this week suggesting Russia may be removed, Russia’s ambassador in Jakarta said on Wednesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin “wants to go” to the G20 summit in Indonesia in November.
Also, when asked during Thursday’s news conference about whether Ukrainian President Zelensky needs to cede any territory in order gain a ceasefire with Russia, Biden said it was up to the Ukrainians to decide.
“That is a total judgment based on Ukraine. Nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine. I don’t believe that they’re going to have to do that, but there is a judgment,” Biden said, adding that there are discussions taking place that he’s not been part of on the matter.
“It’s their judgment to make,” he added.
Date: 25/03/2022 15:14:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1864968
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
captain_spalding said:
War for profit, if not fun:

This demilitarisation campaign isn’t going well…
I dunno…Russia seems to be getting demilitarised at reasonably steady pace.
planned
by CHINA and DPRNA secret alliance
Date: 25/03/2022 17:36:27
From: dv
ID: 1865015
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Seen a lot of heads describing this as the first war in Europe since WW2.
O RLY
Date: 25/03/2022 17:54:12
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1865024
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
From a live camera YT page. The comments can be brutal

Date: 25/03/2022 18:21:40
From: dv
ID: 1865031
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
From a live camera YT page. The comments can be brutal

telletubbies eh
Date: 25/03/2022 19:11:03
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865073
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ang2bqo_460svvp9.webm
Date: 25/03/2022 19:18:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865080
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/03/2022 19:19:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865081
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ang2bqo_460svvp9.webm
Well done.
Date: 25/03/2022 19:21:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865083
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ang2bqo_460svvp9.webm
Well done.
bit eurocentric perhaps
Date: 25/03/2022 19:51:30
From: furious
ID: 1865091
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ang2bqo_460svvp9.webm
Well done.
Should have put some sort of warning with it though…
Date: 25/03/2022 19:55:57
From: Kingy
ID: 1865094
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Interesting musings from the front lines on the impact of modern anti-tank weapons, weaknesses of Russia’s centralized command-and-control, and the tactical impact of one side having combatants that are fighting to defend their home from invaders.”
This brought Jed to the second subject he wanted to discuss: Russian tactics and doctrine. He said he had spent much of the past few weeks in the trenches northwest of Kyiv. “The Russians have no imagination,” he said. “They would shell our positions, attack in large formations, and when their assaults failed, do it all over again. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians would raid the Russian lines in small groups night after night, wearing them down.”
Date: 25/03/2022 20:04:58
From: dv
ID: 1865095
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I don’t know anything about aid logistics in a contested area but I can’t help feel there must be some options for delivering aid to the near-starving folks trapped in Mariupol.
Date: 25/03/2022 20:11:23
From: dv
ID: 1865097
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/Laj8JcLVr2c
Biden speaks on US assistance to Europe to reduce its dependence on Russian gas in the medium and long term
Date: 25/03/2022 20:16:53
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1865100
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
I don’t know anything about aid logistics in a contested area but I can’t help feel there must be some options for delivering aid to the near-starving folks trapped in Mariupol.
The thing is that an air lift would be very dangerous, not so much from the Russians but from a multitude of inexperienced Ukrainian solders who have just received a shiny new anti aircraft missile launcher
Date: 25/03/2022 20:24:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865105
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 25/03/2022 20:46:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865123
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
I don’t know anything about aid logistics in a contested area but I can’t help feel there must be some options for delivering aid to the near-starving folks trapped in Mariupol.
The thing is that an air lift would be very dangerous, not so much from the Russians but from a multitude of inexperienced Ukrainian solders who have just received a shiny new anti aircraft missile launcher
Supply by air has never had a terrific track record. One of the few times that it did work out was, ironically, the Luftwaffe’s supply of German forces in Crimea’s Sevastopol during WW2.
Even major air supply projects like the Berlin Air Lift struggled to keep up supplies to the minimum levels. At peak time, an aircraft landed every 60 seconds, and was unloaded within 20-30 mins. But even this was just bare-subsistence supply for the city. Can you imagine trying that rate of supply (even if you could muster the aircraft) during a hot-war situation?
To hark back to WW2 again, Goering promised that the Luftwaffe could supply German forces in Stalingrad. They never achieved more than 20% of the Heer’s daily needs, and at a terrible cost in planes and men.
Air drops are worse. Most commonly, the ‘bad guys’ end up with 50% or more of whatever gets kicked out of the door.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be tried, but don’t pin any great hopes on it.
Date: 25/03/2022 20:47:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865125
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ang2bqo_460svvp9.webm
Well done.
Should have put some sort of warning with it though…
You got as much warning as did the dead in the video.
Date: 25/03/2022 20:57:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865132
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
furious said:
Bubblecar said:
Well done.
Should have put some sort of warning with it though…
You got as much warning as did the dead in the video.
8 years ¿
Date: 25/03/2022 21:00:05
From: dv
ID: 1865138
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
I don’t know anything about aid logistics in a contested area but I can’t help feel there must be some options for delivering aid to the near-starving folks trapped in Mariupol.
The thing is that an air lift would be very dangerous, not so much from the Russians but from a multitude of inexperienced Ukrainian solders who have just received a shiny new anti aircraft missile launcher
I assume the respective forces can still coordinate.
Plus there are some huge drones now
Date: 25/03/2022 21:02:07
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1865140
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Peak Warming Man said:
dv said:
I don’t know anything about aid logistics in a contested area but I can’t help feel there must be some options for delivering aid to the near-starving folks trapped in Mariupol.
The thing is that an air lift would be very dangerous, not so much from the Russians but from a multitude of inexperienced Ukrainian solders who have just received a shiny new anti aircraft missile launcher
Supply by air has never had a terrific track record. One of the few times that it did work out was, ironically, the Luftwaffe’s supply of German forces in Crimea’s Sevastopol during WW2.
Even major air supply projects like the Berlin Air Lift struggled to keep up supplies to the minimum levels. At peak time, an aircraft landed every 60 seconds, and was unloaded within 20-30 mins. But even this was just bare-subsistence supply for the city. Can you imagine trying that rate of supply (even if you could muster the aircraft) during a hot-war situation?
To hark back to WW2 again, Goering promised that the Luftwaffe could supply German forces in Stalingrad. They never achieved more than 20% of the Heer’s daily needs, and at a terrible cost in planes and men.
Air drops are worse. Most commonly, the ‘bad guys’ end up with 50% or more of whatever gets kicked out of the door.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be tried, but don’t pin any great hopes on it.
There was an incident during the Falklands war when a warship was tracking some incoming enemy planes, there was also a pair of CAP that had sidewinder missiles with an impressive record of hits vectored on the incoming planes.
However the warship warned them off saying it’s alright chaps we’ve got them covered, just when the missiles were set to fire another ship came across the field of view of the radar system and the launch sequence aborted and the incoming proceeded to put a couple of bombs into a very expensive warship.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:04:17
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865142
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I heard/seen reports on telly that tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been taken to Russia but there appears to be little about it on the web.
One would hope that if the Russians finally do take Mariupol they’ll send in humanitarian aid.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:07:14
From: furious
ID: 1865147
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
furious said:
Bubblecar said:
Well done.
Should have put some sort of warning with it though…
You got as much warning as did the dead in the video.
Just common courtesy…
Date: 25/03/2022 21:09:46
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1865150
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
I heard/seen reports on telly that tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been taken to Russia but there appears to be little about it on the web.
One would hope that if the Russians finally do take Mariupol they’ll send in humanitarian aid.
Don’t forget that we are on the end of propaganda, not as much as the Russians but propaganda none the less.
Always keep an open mind even though the information you get supports your aspirations and world view.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:09:53
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865151
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
I heard/seen reports on telly that tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been taken to Russia but there appears to be little about it on the web.
One would hope that if the Russians finally do take Mariupol they’ll send in humanitarian aid.
Now, there’s a funny thing about Russians.
Again going back to WW2, the Russians were absolutely ruthless in dealing with German forces on their march towards Berlin.
And there was looting a-plenty. And rape. More rape cases than does your brain good to dwell upon. Let’s just say, any female German who was aged 13 or more in eastern Germany in 1945 was almost certainly raped.
But….
…the Red Army set up field kitchens by the score and fed starving German civilians, no questions asked, no problems, no if or buts. And they provided what medical aid they could, under the war time conditions.
How can you estimate a people like that?
Date: 25/03/2022 21:10:41
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865153
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I heard/seen reports on telly that tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been taken to Russia but there appears to be little about it on the web.
One would hope that if the Russians finally do take Mariupol they’ll send in humanitarian aid.
Don’t forget that we are on the end of propaganda, not as much as the Russians but propaganda none the less.
Always keep an open mind even though the information you get supports your aspirations and world view.
I blame Obama.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:11:03
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1865154
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Always keep an open mind even though the information you get supports your aspirations and world view.
Pfffft.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:11:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865155
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
captain_spalding said:
furious said:
Should have put some sort of warning with it though…
You got as much warning as did the dead in the video.
Just common courtesy…
Yes, you may be right.
But, as the video suggests, all of us here safe in ‘the West’ may need to be shocked.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:11:26
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1865156
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I heard/seen reports on telly that tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been taken to Russia but there appears to be little about it on the web.
One would hope that if the Russians finally do take Mariupol they’ll send in humanitarian aid.
Don’t forget that we are on the end of propaganda, not as much as the Russians but propaganda none the less.
Always keep an open mind even though the information you get supports your aspirations and world view.
I blame Obama.
I blame his parents.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:12:20
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1865157
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:14:08
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865158
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
There’s going to be a lot of weeping Russian mothers in the coming months. Hopefully they decide to not take Putin’s shit anymore.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:16:51
From: furious
ID: 1865159
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
Chess…
Date: 25/03/2022 21:18:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865160
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I heard/seen reports on telly that tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been taken to Russia but there appears to be little about it on the web.
One would hope that if the Russians finally do take Mariupol they’ll send in humanitarian aid.
Now, there’s a funny thing about Russians.
Again going back to WW2, the Russians were absolutely ruthless in dealing with German forces on their march towards Berlin.
And there was looting a-plenty. And rape. More rape cases than does your brain good to dwell upon. Let’s just say, any female German who was aged 13 or more in eastern Germany in 1945 was almost certainly raped.
But….
…the Red Army set up field kitchens by the score and fed starving German civilians, no questions asked, no problems, no if or buts. And they provided what medical aid they could, under the war time conditions.
How can you estimate a people like that?
well as they say, machines don’t fuck around slash rape and pillage the locals and produce more copies of machines, while living off potatoes
you have to replenish your forces with someone
Date: 25/03/2022 21:18:19
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1865161
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
There’s going to be a lot of weeping Russian mothers in the coming months. Hopefully they decide to not take Putin’s shit anymore.
I think it is a case of they have grown up in a country that tells you what to think and if you don’t the punishment is extreme , those who protest know that they will be in harms way but my guess is sometimes the circumstance is that bad throwing caution to the wind and fighting back in protest of inhumanity is warranted from sheer frustration and for lack of another way until change happens.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:18:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865162
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
There’s going to be a lot of weeping Russian mothers in the coming months. Hopefully they decide to not take Putin’s shit anymore.
To draw yet another parallel with WW2 and Germany:
the post-war political clout of all those families who had lost sons/brothers/nephews, to say nothing of husbands and fathers, in the slaughter at the front, especially the Russian front, was by no means inconsiderable.
Putin is creating a similar force, equally as motivated if rather smaller, within Russia, and it grows larger every day.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:18:45
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865164
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
Chess…
they are playing chess
Date: 25/03/2022 21:18:54
From: Arts
ID: 1865165
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
furious said:
Bubblecar said:
Well done.
Should have put some sort of warning with it though…
You got as much warning as did the dead in the video.
a warning would have been better, since trauma does not need to be fed anymore… people can’t choose their triggers, but the courtesy of allowing someone to choose to watch something is the right thing to do
Date: 25/03/2022 21:24:04
From: Woodie
ID: 1865169
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
There’s going to be a lot of weeping Russian mothers in the coming months. Hopefully they decide to not take Putin’s shit anymore.
So where are they putting all these dead Russians? 10+ thousands of them or supposedly more? Just leaving them in their blown up tanks to rot? Mass local graves? 60km long convoys taking them all back to Russia?
Nobody seems to be sayin’ nuttin’ about that stuff where they’re all bein’ put.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:25:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865171
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Arts said:
a warning would have been better, since trauma does not need to be fed anymore… people can’t choose their triggers, but the courtesy of allowing someone to choose to watch something is the right thing to do
You’re right, and i should have done as much.
I’m influenced by my own experiences and traumas. I didn’t get any warning for them, and i neglect the fact that others don’t need to have that as well.
I’ll try to not do that again. I hope i haven’t done damage to anyone. Goodness knows, i can tell you the damage it can do, and still does.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:27:04
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865172
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
There’s going to be a lot of weeping Russian mothers in the coming months. Hopefully they decide to not take Putin’s shit anymore.
So where are they putting all these dead Russians? 10+ thousands of them or supposedly more? Just leaving them in their blown up tanks to rot? Mass local graves? 60km long convoys taking them all back to Russia?
Nobody seems to be sayin’ nuttin’ about that stuff where they’re all bein’ put.
Remember hearing about ‘mobile crematoriums’ about a month ago?
And Russia is a big place. You can always find a few hectares for a cemetery that doesn’t officially exist.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:28:11
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865173
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
monkey skipper said:
They should have played paper , scissor , rock it would have been far kinder.
There’s going to be a lot of weeping Russian mothers in the coming months. Hopefully they decide to not take Putin’s shit anymore.
So where are they putting all these dead Russians? 10+ thousands of them or supposedly more? Just leaving them in their blown up tanks to rot? Mass local graves? 60km long convoys taking them all back to Russia?
Nobody seems to be sayin’ nuttin’ about that stuff where they’re all bein’ put.
look, CHINA hid 1000000 deaths just like that so what’s a couple of thousand to some Russians, all mild
Date: 25/03/2022 21:30:27
From: dv
ID: 1865174
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I heard/seen reports on telly that tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been taken to Russia but there appears to be little about it on the web.
One would hope that if the Russians finally do take Mariupol they’ll send in humanitarian aid.
Don’t forget that we are on the end of propaganda, not as much as the Russians but propaganda none the less.
Always keep an open mind even though the information you get supports your aspirations and world view.
It’s worth remembering yes.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:31:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865176
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Transporting any corpses that the mobile crematoria can’t handle back to Russia is not a problem.
The dead never complain about overcrowding. One freight train can carry quite a lot of them.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:34:27
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865178
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Transporting any corpses that the mobile crematoria can’t handle back to Russia is not a problem.
The dead never complain about overcrowding. One freight train can carry quite a lot of them.
I saw on 7News tonight a report about the th
Date: 25/03/2022 21:35:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865179
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Transporting any corpses that the mobile crematoria can’t handle back to Russia is not a problem.
The dead never complain about overcrowding. One freight train can carry quite a lot of them.
I saw on 7News tonight a report about thousands of unclaimed cremated remains.
Date: 25/03/2022 21:59:39
From: Woodie
ID: 1865193
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Transporting any corpses that the mobile crematoria can’t handle back to Russia is not a problem.
The dead never complain about overcrowding. One freight train can carry quite a lot of them.
I’ve been led to believe the Russians don’t know forwards from backwards, let alone coordinate that sorta logistics.
Date: 25/03/2022 23:10:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865217
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Interesting article about Ukraine’s tank-killing drones and the unit that operates them, Aerorozvidka.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukrainian-drone-unit-strikes-russian-targets-while-they-sleep-the-times-2022-3
Date: 25/03/2022 23:18:31
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1865219
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Elon Musk’s Starlink satellites are helping Ukraine’s elite drone unit destroy Russian tanks and trucks in the night: report
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-starlink-ukraine-drone-unit-russia-tanks-war-2022-3?inline-endstory-related-recommendations=
Date: 25/03/2022 23:30:07
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865220
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia Has Already Lost
Detailed summary by Tyler Rogoway.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44592/russia-has-already-lost
Date: 26/03/2022 00:40:13
From: dv
ID: 1865229
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Elon Musk’s Starlink satellites are helping Ukraine’s elite drone unit destroy Russian tanks and trucks in the night: report
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-starlink-ukraine-drone-unit-russia-tanks-war-2022-3?inline-endstory-related-recommendations=
Well that’s good
Date: 26/03/2022 08:28:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865245
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Peak Warming Man said:

Both my parents were born in the greatest generation.
Date: 26/03/2022 08:52:14
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865247
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Peak Warming Man said:

Both my parents were born in the greatest generation.
Damn Identity Politics
Date: 26/03/2022 10:59:53
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865263
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

All those bungholes on Russian TV who were squawking about ‘…and who says we’ll stop at the Ukraine border after we’ve over-run it, huh?!’ gonna have some ‘splainin’ to do, Lucy.
Date: 26/03/2022 11:30:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865270
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Mutinous Russian troops ran over their own commander, say western officials
Western officials have said they believe a Russian commander was run over by mutinous forces during the fighting in Ukraine, in a sign of what they described as the “morale challenges” faced by the invading forces.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/25/russian-troops-mutiny-commander-ukraine-report-western-officials
Date: 26/03/2022 11:39:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865276
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/03/2022 11:48:34
From: dv
ID: 1865283
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Mutinous Russian troops ran over their own commander, say western officials
Western officials have said they believe a Russian commander was run over by mutinous forces during the fighting in Ukraine, in a sign of what they described as the “morale challenges” faced by the invading forces.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/25/russian-troops-mutiny-commander-ukraine-report-western-officials
Damn.
Still, can’t blame them.
Date: 26/03/2022 12:02:56
From: transition
ID: 1865295
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Mutinous Russian troops ran over their own commander, say western officials
Western officials have said they believe a Russian commander was run over by mutinous forces during the fighting in Ukraine, in a sign of what they described as the “morale challenges” faced by the invading forces.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/25/russian-troops-mutiny-commander-ukraine-report-western-officials
Damn.
Still, can’t blame them.
unverified gossip really, given the environment presently lends to propaganda i’d emphasize unverified, but it does feed the hope (the morale of the good guys) that russian morale is so bad they’ve started running over their own commanders
Date: 26/03/2022 12:21:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865310
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
dv said:
Bubblecar said:
Mutinous Russian troops ran over their own commander, say western officials
Western officials have said they believe a Russian commander was run over by mutinous forces during the fighting in Ukraine, in a sign of what they described as the “morale challenges” faced by the invading forces.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/25/russian-troops-mutiny-commander-ukraine-report-western-officials
Damn.
Still, can’t blame them.
unverified gossip really, given the environment presently lends to propaganda i’d emphasize unverified, but it does feed the hope (the morale of the good guys) that russian morale is so bad they’ve started running over their own commanders
It’s not just a hope, it’s known that Russian troop morale is particularly low, as one would reasonably expect.
Russian troop morale is usually pretty low at the best of times, especially amongst conscripts. And they’re currently experiencing the worst of times.
Date: 26/03/2022 12:22:54
From: dv
ID: 1865312
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I mean you call this facesaving?
Honestly if Russian troops had entered the Donbass and stayed well behind the current lines of contact, there would have save 15000 troops, hundreds of millions of dollars in hardware, tens of billions of dollars in losses due to sanctions, and a lot of embarrassment.
Date: 26/03/2022 12:27:45
From: transition
ID: 1865315
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
dv said:
Damn.
Still, can’t blame them.
unverified gossip really, given the environment presently lends to propaganda i’d emphasize unverified, but it does feed the hope (the morale of the good guys) that russian morale is so bad they’ve started running over their own commanders
It’s not just a hope, it’s known that Russian troop morale is particularly low, as one would reasonably expect.
Russian troop morale is usually pretty low at the best of times, especially amongst conscripts. And they’re currently experiencing the worst of times.
you’re generalizing, hostile generalization
Date: 26/03/2022 12:31:14
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865320
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
unverified gossip really, given the environment presently lends to propaganda i’d emphasize unverified, but it does feed the hope (the morale of the good guys) that russian morale is so bad they’ve started running over their own commanders
It’s not just a hope, it’s known that Russian troop morale is particularly low, as one would reasonably expect.
Russian troop morale is usually pretty low at the best of times, especially amongst conscripts. And they’re currently experiencing the worst of times.
you’re generalizing, hostile generalization
Of course I’m generalising. It’s true that generally Russian troop morale is very low, as one would reasonably expect.
I’m sure it’s generally true even amongst the Russian generals (who have now lost seven of their number).
Date: 26/03/2022 12:32:47
From: dv
ID: 1865321
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/03/2022 12:33:56
From: transition
ID: 1865324
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s not just a hope, it’s known that Russian troop morale is particularly low, as one would reasonably expect.
Russian troop morale is usually pretty low at the best of times, especially amongst conscripts. And they’re currently experiencing the worst of times.
you’re generalizing, hostile generalization
Of course I’m generalising. It’s true that generally Russian troop morale is very low, as one would reasonably expect.
I’m sure it’s generally true even amongst the Russian generals (who have now lost seven of their number).
well it’s only true where it’s true, but you’re hoping for a general collapse of morale, which is fine, but it’s not true where it’s not true
Date: 26/03/2022 12:34:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865326
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
you’re generalizing, hostile generalization
Of course I’m generalising. It’s true that generally Russian troop morale is very low, as one would reasonably expect.
I’m sure it’s generally true even amongst the Russian generals (who have now lost seven of their number).
well it’s only true where it’s true, but you’re hoping for a general collapse of morale, which is fine, but it’s not true where it’s not true
You’re being silly, so I’ll leave you to it.
Date: 26/03/2022 12:36:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865327
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
Of course I’m generalising. It’s true that generally Russian troop morale is very low, as one would reasonably expect.
I’m sure it’s generally true even amongst the Russian generals (who have now lost seven of their number).
well it’s only true where it’s true, but you’re hoping for a general collapse of morale, which is fine, but it’s not true where it’s not true
You’re being silly, so I’ll leave you to it.
Yeah. We know that Russiam trees are falling in Ukranian forests, even though we aren’t there to hear them fall.
Date: 26/03/2022 12:36:51
From: transition
ID: 1865328
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
Of course I’m generalising. It’s true that generally Russian troop morale is very low, as one would reasonably expect.
I’m sure it’s generally true even amongst the Russian generals (who have now lost seven of their number).
well it’s only true where it’s true, but you’re hoping for a general collapse of morale, which is fine, but it’s not true where it’s not true
You’re being silly, so I’ll leave you to it.
you’re being dismissive, but yeah I was being playful with your righteousness, dared contradict
Date: 26/03/2022 12:40:16
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865331
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
All those bungholes on Russian TV who were squawking about ‘…and who says we’ll stop at the Ukraine border after we’ve over-run it, huh?!’ gonna have some ‘splainin’ to do, Lucy.
so supposedly we’re all meant to believe this was just some highball bargaining strategy
LOL
Date: 26/03/2022 12:40:37
From: dv
ID: 1865332
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/03/2022 12:42:08
From: dv
ID: 1865333
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
All those bungholes on Russian TV who were squawking about ‘…and who says we’ll stop at the Ukraine border after we’ve over-run it, huh?!’ gonna have some ‘splainin’ to do, Lucy.
so supposedly we’re all meant to believe this was just some highball bargaining strategy
LOL
“We are proud to announce that the Ukrainians failed to take a single hectare of Russian territory! Cigars and medals all around.”
Date: 26/03/2022 12:56:53
From: Tamb
ID: 1865342
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
Bubblecar said:
Of course I’m generalising. It’s true that generally Russian troop morale is very low, as one would reasonably expect.
I’m sure it’s generally true even amongst the Russian generals (who have now lost seven of their number).
well it’s only true where it’s true, but you’re hoping for a general collapse of morale, which is fine, but it’s not true where it’s not true
You’re being silly, so I’ll leave you to it.
The method in Africa was to keep the troops behind with their pay. No fight, no pay. Do fight, maybe pay later.
Date: 26/03/2022 12:59:16
From: dv
ID: 1865344
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Bubblecar said:
transition said:
well it’s only true where it’s true, but you’re hoping for a general collapse of morale, which is fine, but it’s not true where it’s not true
You’re being silly, so I’ll leave you to it.
The method in Africa was to keep the troops behind with their pay. No fight, no pay. Do fight, maybe pay later.
Right now the Russians are looking at “surrender and get food and a bad” or “freeze and starve pointlessly”
Date: 26/03/2022 13:06:03
From: dv
ID: 1865345
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/03/2022 13:08:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865346
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
*bed
Eceb a bad *bed.
Date: 26/03/2022 13:09:19
From: dv
ID: 1865348
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putin claims to be victim of cancel culture, comparing Russia with JK Rowling
Vladimir Putin has wildly claimed Russia is a victim of cancel culture, dragging Harry Potter author JK Rowling into his argument.
Evan Simko-Bednarski and NY Post
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/putin-claims-to-be-victim-of-cancel-culture-comparing-russia-with-jk-rowling/news-story/167e8faf3561f30f91b2000f4fd1ee86
Date: 26/03/2022 13:12:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865350
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Putin claims to be victim of cancel culture, comparing Russia with JK Rowling
Vladimir Putin has wildly claimed Russia is a victim of cancel culture, dragging Harry Potter author JK Rowling into his argument.
Evan Simko-Bednarski and NY Post
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/putin-claims-to-be-victim-of-cancel-culture-comparing-russia-with-jk-rowling/news-story/167e8faf3561f30f91b2000f4fd1ee86
Nobody wants to cancel Russian culture. We do however want to cancel Pootin and his cohorts.
Date: 26/03/2022 13:13:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865353
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian dissident journalist Kamil Galeev gives some insights re the Russian army in this thread of tweets.
It seems that most of the “Russian” troops in Ukraine, and the army in general, are from various ethnic minorities. It’s a very low-status job with low pay and poor conditions.
>How do you get to the Russian army? Well, first you need to be drafted. Affluent people are selected out at this stage. People with social capital view military service as the fate of losers. So it’s the poor and naive who don’t know how (or why) to dodge who are drafted.
Then you need to sign a contract. They’ll be persuading, shaming, luring, seducing you into signing a contract. A person with social capital who accidentally got drafted will avoid it at all cost, call his lawyers, human rights advocates. So they probably let him go.
While signing the contract is usually voluntary (though not always), they heavily concentrate on rural bumpkins. First, it’s easier to pressure them, they don’t know their rights. Second, it’s easier to bribe them with salary prospect, they don’t have career anyway.
Thirdly, they are disposable. Imagine kids of Moscow intelligentsia getting killed in Ukraine – that’s a headache. Their families gonna call lawyers, media, human rights organizations, give interviews. Meanwhile rural bumpkin moms will cry in the pillow and that’s it. AMAZING.
That’s why Russian army is increasingly turning into the army of minorities. Yes, it has always been the army of country folk. But in the past they were mostly ethnic Russian. Nowadays however, there is not so much youth left in ethnic Russian countryside.
They’re so desperate for manpower that are even pressganging the Central Asian immigrants. Technically these guys could just refuse to sign anything and go. Recruiter would yell, curse, hit his fist on the table and that’s it. He can’t really do anything. But they don’t know it.
Recruiting Gastarbeiters is a sign of desperation. It’s being done simply because it’s easy to persuade them that they must enlist and threaten them with heavy consequences if they don’t. There will be no consequences, they have legal rights. They just don’t know it.
Z-invasion is when (non-Chechen) minorities fight and die for the Russian ethnonationalist project. What do they get in return? Well, assimilation. Notice this poster – it’s like “I’m Welsh but today we’re all English”. For your sacrifice you’re allowed to abandon your identity.
From the minority perspective Z-invasion looks like a worst trade deal in the history of trade deals ever. They’ll bear disproportionate burden of war, taking huge number of casualties. If Z-invasion succeeds, they’ll get forced assimilation and will be losing their autonomy.
More Here
Date: 26/03/2022 13:31:21
From: party_pants
ID: 1865356
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Putin claims to be victim of cancel culture, comparing Russia with JK Rowling
Vladimir Putin has wildly claimed Russia is a victim of cancel culture, dragging Harry Potter author JK Rowling into his argument.
Evan Simko-Bednarski and NY Post
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/putin-claims-to-be-victim-of-cancel-culture-comparing-russia-with-jk-rowling/news-story/167e8faf3561f30f91b2000f4fd1ee86
The Russian economy needs to be cancelled, so they will no longer have the funds to invade their neighbours. In this case the “cancelling” is a good thing.
Date: 26/03/2022 14:22:38
From: dv
ID: 1865361
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Russian dissident journalist Kamil Galeev gives some insights re the Russian army in this thread of tweets.
It seems that most of the “Russian” troops in Ukraine, and the army in general, are from various ethnic minorities. It’s a very low-status job with low pay and poor conditions.
>How do you get to the Russian army? Well, first you need to be drafted. Affluent people are selected out at this stage. People with social capital view military service as the fate of losers. So it’s the poor and naive who don’t know how (or why) to dodge who are drafted.
Then you need to sign a contract. They’ll be persuading, shaming, luring, seducing you into signing a contract. A person with social capital who accidentally got drafted will avoid it at all cost, call his lawyers, human rights advocates. So they probably let him go.
While signing the contract is usually voluntary (though not always), they heavily concentrate on rural bumpkins. First, it’s easier to pressure them, they don’t know their rights. Second, it’s easier to bribe them with salary prospect, they don’t have career anyway.
Thirdly, they are disposable. Imagine kids of Moscow intelligentsia getting killed in Ukraine – that’s a headache. Their families gonna call lawyers, media, human rights organizations, give interviews. Meanwhile rural bumpkin moms will cry in the pillow and that’s it. AMAZING.
That’s why Russian army is increasingly turning into the army of minorities. Yes, it has always been the army of country folk. But in the past they were mostly ethnic Russian. Nowadays however, there is not so much youth left in ethnic Russian countryside.
They’re so desperate for manpower that are even pressganging the Central Asian immigrants. Technically these guys could just refuse to sign anything and go. Recruiter would yell, curse, hit his fist on the table and that’s it. He can’t really do anything. But they don’t know it.
Recruiting Gastarbeiters is a sign of desperation. It’s being done simply because it’s easy to persuade them that they must enlist and threaten them with heavy consequences if they don’t. There will be no consequences, they have legal rights. They just don’t know it.
Z-invasion is when (non-Chechen) minorities fight and die for the Russian ethnonationalist project. What do they get in return? Well, assimilation. Notice this poster – it’s like “I’m Welsh but today we’re all English”. For your sacrifice you’re allowed to abandon your identity.
From the minority perspective Z-invasion looks like a worst trade deal in the history of trade deals ever. They’ll bear disproportionate burden of war, taking huge number of casualties. If Z-invasion succeeds, they’ll get forced assimilation and will be losing their autonomy.
More Here
I guess from Putin’s perspective this is win win then
Date: 26/03/2022 14:28:56
From: dv
ID: 1865363
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Putin claims to be victim of cancel culture, comparing Russia with JK Rowling
Vladimir Putin has wildly claimed Russia is a victim of cancel culture, dragging Harry Potter author JK Rowling into his argument.
Evan Simko-Bednarski and NY Post
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/putin-claims-to-be-victim-of-cancel-culture-comparing-russia-with-jk-rowling/news-story/167e8faf3561f30f91b2000f4fd1ee86

Date: 26/03/2022 14:50:41
From: dv
ID: 1865373
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/yylsDFuvIJc
Nato Command Structure
Date: 26/03/2022 15:48:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865407
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cheap Ukrainian drone drops three little bombs on a Russian tank. These drones are running up to 300 missions daily but mostly operating at night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WEI7Ra99SU&t=1s
Date: 26/03/2022 16:01:12
From: dv
ID: 1865412
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Cheap Ukrainian drone drops three little bombs on a Russian tank. These drones are running up to 300 missions daily but mostly operating at night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WEI7Ra99SU&t=1s
Thoughts and prayers
Date: 26/03/2022 16:11:10
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865414
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/03/2022 16:22:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865415
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Cheap Ukrainian drone drops three little bombs on a Russian tank. These drones are running up to 300 missions daily but mostly operating at night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WEI7Ra99SU&t=1s
I’m taking that to mean 300 missions per day shared over the whole drone force.
One drone doing 300 a day would mean less than 5 min per mission. Which would be fantastic turnaround time. :)
Date: 26/03/2022 16:24:51
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1865416
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
One drone doing 300 a day would mean less than 5 min per mission. Which would be fantastic turnaround time. :)
It only takes a few seconds to swap over the battery in most drones, but I agree it’s far more likely 300 per day in total not per drone.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:25:01
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865417
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
Cheap Ukrainian drone drops three little bombs on a Russian tank. These drones are running up to 300 missions daily but mostly operating at night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WEI7Ra99SU&t=1s
I’m taking that to mean 300 missions per day shared over the whole drone force.
One drone doing 300 a day would mean less than 5 min per mission. Which would be fantastic turnaround time. :)
300 missions in total for the drones, but I don’t know how many drones are involved in each mission.
Most of these drones are just modified hobbyist drones like the one PWM bought.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:29:11
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1865418
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
Date: 26/03/2022 16:32:43
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865423
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I understand that a lot of the Ukrainians’ surveillance and recon drone flights are done using these small and comparatively cheap Fly Eye drones.

Very small and hard to see/hit, very quiet.
I imagine that, when targets are found, they then send the larger, more expensive and weapons-capable Byraktars out to do the deed:

Date: 26/03/2022 16:37:31
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865427
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
I understand that a lot of the Ukrainians’ surveillance and recon drone flights are done using these small and comparatively cheap Fly Eye drones.

Very small and hard to see/hit, very quiet.
I imagine that, when targets are found, they then send the larger, more expensive and weapons-capable Byraktars out to do the deed:

The drones dropping the little bombs are little helicopter drones like this:
Ukrainians develop terrifying drone that drops Molotov cocktails
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcQdbEpfjTY
Date: 26/03/2022 16:39:02
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865429
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
Looks like sustained flames coming from the top of the vehicle by drop x 3.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:43:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865431
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
Looks like sustained flames coming from the top of the vehicle by drop x 3.
Cook the people inside anyway.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:48:52
From: party_pants
ID: 1865434
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
Depends where it hits. Most Russian tanks have very heavy frontal armour, for protection against direct fire from another tank. Most tanks tend to be very lightly armoured on the roof. The Javelin missiles that NATO are supplying to Ukraine exploit this weakness by flying low over the top of the tank and exploding mid-air right above them. If they can knock out a tank (bear in mind these are man-portable in size and weight) then I think a well aimed bomb dropped from above could knock out a tank too.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:48:54
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865435
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
Looks like sustained flames coming from the top of the vehicle by drop x 3.
Cook the people inside anyway.
Most likely a night attack on a parked vehicle, with crew sleeping elsewhere.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:51:22
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1865437
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
Depends where it hits. Most Russian tanks have very heavy frontal armour, for protection against direct fire from another tank. Most tanks tend to be very lightly armoured on the roof. The Javelin missiles that NATO are supplying to Ukraine exploit this weakness by flying low over the top of the tank and exploding mid-air right above them. If they can knock out a tank (bear in mind these are man-portable in size and weight) then I think a well aimed bomb dropped from above could knock out a tank too.
I imagine they’re small shaped charges, even a small one should penetrate the top armour.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:52:27
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865438
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
This video shows an ordinary hobby copter adapted for dropping little bombs.
Practice run, then drops a little bomb on Russian target in daylight, but misses the tank.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Kffd4wavys4
Date: 26/03/2022 16:53:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865440
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
‘Eastern bloc’ nations had/have a high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) round for their 82mm mortars. Like other HEAT ammunition, these use a shaped charge to cause small-diameter penetration of the vehicle hull, and that results in what’s basically a jet of molten metal squirting into the tank.
If these were dropped from a drone, then they could be quite effective against tanks where there’s usually not a lot of the armour on the top decks, especially around the engine.
The Americans came up with a system called MAD during the Vietnam War. A tall field-manufactured box/stacker was attached to the side of a helicopter, and this was loaded with 81mm HE mortar rounds. Over the target, the bottom of the box was simply opened (pull the plank out) and away went the bombs, to be spin-armed on their way down.
Made a helicopter into a fairly devastating bomber.
Date: 26/03/2022 16:54:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865442
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
MAD= Mortar Air Delivery.
Date: 26/03/2022 17:02:30
From: buffy
ID: 1865444
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
Looks like sustained flames coming from the top of the vehicle by drop x 3.
Cook the people inside anyway.
Most likely a night attack on a parked vehicle, with crew sleeping elsewhere.
I’d call that wishful thinking. War is hell.
Date: 26/03/2022 17:12:56
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865451
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
buffy said:
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
Cook the people inside anyway.
Most likely a night attack on a parked vehicle, with crew sleeping elsewhere.
I’d call that wishful thinking. War is hell.
No, the reports say most of these small drone attacks are taking place at night, when the drones are impossible to see.
The footage on that video looks like night vision.
Date: 26/03/2022 17:16:44
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865454
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
buffy said:
Bubblecar said:
Most likely a night attack on a parked vehicle, with crew sleeping elsewhere.
I’d call that wishful thinking. War is hell.
No, the reports say most of these small drone attacks are taking place at night, when the drones are impossible to see.
The footage on that video looks like night vision.
An elite Ukrainian drone unit exploits the cover of night to destroy Russian tanks and trucks while their soldiers sleep, report says
An elite Ukrainian drone unit is destroying weaponry of the invading Russian forces as their soldiers sleep, The Times of London reported Friday.
Aerorozvidka, a specialist air-reconnaissance unit within the Ukrainian army, says it has destroyed dozens of “priority targets” including tanks, command trucks, and other vehicles in nighttime raids, the paper reported.
Russian forces stop moving during the night and typically place their tanks among houses in villages where conventional artillery cannot strike them, Yaroslav Honchar, the unit commander based in Kyiv, told the paper.
But the elite drone unit, which has dozens of squads of expert drone pilots, has these stationary vehicles in its cross-hairs.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukrainian-drone-unit-strikes-russian-targets-while-they-sleep-the-times-2022-3
Date: 26/03/2022 18:00:58
From: party_pants
ID: 1865466
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
this could e the oft-predicted obsolescence of the tank.
Date: 26/03/2022 18:50:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1865494
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
‘Eastern bloc’ nations had/have a high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) round for their 82mm mortars. Like other HEAT ammunition, these use a shaped charge to cause small-diameter penetration of the vehicle hull, and that results in what’s basically a jet of molten metal squirting into the tank.
If these were dropped from a drone, then they could be quite effective against tanks where there’s usually not a lot of the armour on the top decks, especially around the engine.
The Americans came up with a system called MAD during the Vietnam War. A tall field-manufactured box/stacker was attached to the side of a helicopter, and this was loaded with 81mm HE mortar rounds. Over the target, the bottom of the box was simply opened (pull the plank out) and away went the bombs, to be spin-armed on their way down.
Made a helicopter into a fairly devastating bomber.
Sure are a lot of ways of killing people these days with no time to get out of the way, thus making surviving in modern wars largely luck.
Date: 26/03/2022 18:53:40
From: party_pants
ID: 1865496
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
captain_spalding said:
PermeateFree said:
Would those three small bombs destroyed that tank?
‘Eastern bloc’ nations had/have a high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) round for their 82mm mortars. Like other HEAT ammunition, these use a shaped charge to cause small-diameter penetration of the vehicle hull, and that results in what’s basically a jet of molten metal squirting into the tank.
If these were dropped from a drone, then they could be quite effective against tanks where there’s usually not a lot of the armour on the top decks, especially around the engine.
The Americans came up with a system called MAD during the Vietnam War. A tall field-manufactured box/stacker was attached to the side of a helicopter, and this was loaded with 81mm HE mortar rounds. Over the target, the bottom of the box was simply opened (pull the plank out) and away went the bombs, to be spin-armed on their way down.
Made a helicopter into a fairly devastating bomber.
Sure are a lot of ways of killing people these days with no time to get out of the way, thus making surviving in modern wars largely luck.
Yes. Which is why it is so difficult to understand why Russia actually went ahead with this. There are no winners.
Date: 26/03/2022 18:55:36
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865497
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Sure are a lot of ways of killing people these days with no time to get out of the way, thus making surviving in modern wars largely luck.
Always has been. Trust me on that.
Date: 26/03/2022 19:02:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865499
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
How could you ever doubt the veracity of the Russiqan media?
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aYrDopO_460sv.mp4
Date: 26/03/2022 19:03:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865500
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
this could e the oft-predicted obsolescence of the tank.
Date: 26/03/2022 19:05:14
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1865501
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
this could e the oft-predicted obsolescence of the tank.
ED209?
Date: 26/03/2022 19:06:23
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865502
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
this could e the oft-predicted obsolescence of the tank.
ED209?
OCP’s finest!
Date: 26/03/2022 19:06:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865503
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
party_pants said:
this could e the oft-predicted obsolescence of the tank.
ED209?
‘Eddie’ to his friends.
Date: 26/03/2022 19:12:03
From: dv
ID: 1865505
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Do you still call it a proxy war when only one side is proxying?
Date: 26/03/2022 19:13:26
From: party_pants
ID: 1865506
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Do you still call it a proxy war when only one side is proxying?
no.
Date: 26/03/2022 19:15:50
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1865508
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Spiny Norman said:
Witty Rejoinder said:

ED209?
OCP’s finest!
Nerds!
Date: 26/03/2022 19:28:02
From: dv
ID: 1865524
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Seriously this is like the Vietnam War but speedrun. They are already up to fragging.
Date: 26/03/2022 19:29:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865526
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Seriously this is like the Vietnam War but speedrun. They are already up to fragging.
Kids these days. They have to have everything right now.
Date: 26/03/2022 19:40:25
From: dv
ID: 1865532
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 26/03/2022 19:42:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865533
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Looks like a bedford van from the Z cars series.
Date: 26/03/2022 21:07:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865538
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:


Date: 26/03/2022 21:15:28
From: party_pants
ID: 1865539
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:


what’s the whole backwards Z thing all about anyway? Is there some significance to it?
Date: 26/03/2022 21:20:05
From: dv
ID: 1865542
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:


what’s the whole backwards Z thing all about anyway? Is there some significance to it?
Stands for Zoinks
Date: 26/03/2022 21:20:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865543
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:


what’s the whole backwards Z thing all about anyway? Is there some significance to it?
Here it is with the image presented ‘right way around’.

Date: 26/03/2022 21:21:23
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865544
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:


what’s the whole backwards Z thing all about anyway? Is there some significance to it?

Date: 26/03/2022 21:27:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865551
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:


what’s the whole backwards Z thing all about anyway? Is there some significance to it?
The ZZZs are normally the right way around. As is usual, they just signify sleep.
“Russian Army is sleepwalking into a nightmare. Please do not disturb.”

Date: 26/03/2022 21:28:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865553
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Rublev looked strong at the start of the match, building a 2-1 lead after breaking Kyrgios in the early stages of the first set.
But it was all downhill from that point for the Russian, as Kyrgios piled up the winners and put pressure on Rublev’s serve by stepping into the court to take the ball early.
Date: 26/03/2022 22:02:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865569
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
allegedly, but we guess it could be East Gaza or something

Meanwhile in Singapore

we apologise for the mislocation of the above
Date: 26/03/2022 22:09:08
From: dv
ID: 1865570
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian ‘execution squads’ hunting demoralized deserters, defectors
Since the beginning of the war in February, Kyiv has released videos of captured — and often bewildered — Russian soldiers explaining they had no idea they were invading Ukraine. Some have said they chose to surrender rather than fight.
Ukrainian intelligence services have also been bombarding Russian phone numbers since the conflict began instructing soldiers — many of whom are young conscripts — how to surrender.
Britain’s The Daily Mail reports that this week a Russian tank commander pulled the plug on fighting and texted back he wanted to defect. A rendez-vous was arranged and he surrendered.
https://torontosun.com/news/world/russian-execution-squads-hunting-demoralized-deserters-defectors
Date: 26/03/2022 22:30:44
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1865575
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russian ‘execution squads’ hunting demoralized deserters, defectors
Since the beginning of the war in February, Kyiv has released videos of captured — and often bewildered — Russian soldiers explaining they had no idea they were invading Ukraine. Some have said they chose to surrender rather than fight.
Ukrainian intelligence services have also been bombarding Russian phone numbers since the conflict began instructing soldiers — many of whom are young conscripts — how to surrender.
Britain’s The Daily Mail reports that this week a Russian tank commander pulled the plug on fighting and texted back he wanted to defect. A rendez-vous was arranged and he surrendered.
https://torontosun.com/news/world/russian-execution-squads-hunting-demoralized-deserters-defectors
The Deserter
Date: 26/03/2022 22:44:46
From: Woodie
ID: 1865576
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russian ‘execution squads’ hunting demoralized deserters, defectors
Since the beginning of the war in February, Kyiv has released videos of captured — and often bewildered — Russian soldiers explaining they had no idea they were invading Ukraine. Some have said they chose to surrender rather than fight.
Ukrainian intelligence services have also been bombarding Russian phone numbers since the conflict began instructing soldiers — many of whom are young conscripts — how to surrender.
Britain’s The Daily Mail reports that this week a Russian tank commander pulled the plug on fighting and texted back he wanted to defect. A rendez-vous was arranged and he surrendered.
https://torontosun.com/news/world/russian-execution-squads-hunting-demoralized-deserters-defectors
I mean this is all conjecture, hey what but. So where’s the exclusive interviews with all of them, with A Current Affair? Or even Oprah? Otherwise it didn’t happen.😮
Date: 27/03/2022 00:39:45
From: dv
ID: 1865594
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
dv said:
Russian ‘execution squads’ hunting demoralized deserters, defectors
Since the beginning of the war in February, Kyiv has released videos of captured — and often bewildered — Russian soldiers explaining they had no idea they were invading Ukraine. Some have said they chose to surrender rather than fight.
Ukrainian intelligence services have also been bombarding Russian phone numbers since the conflict began instructing soldiers — many of whom are young conscripts — how to surrender.
Britain’s The Daily Mail reports that this week a Russian tank commander pulled the plug on fighting and texted back he wanted to defect. A rendez-vous was arranged and he surrendered.
https://torontosun.com/news/world/russian-execution-squads-hunting-demoralized-deserters-defectors
I mean this is all conjecture, hey what but. So where’s the exclusive interviews with all of them, with A Current Affair? Or even Oprah? Otherwise it didn’t happen.😮
That would actually be against the Geneva Convention
Date: 27/03/2022 00:41:17
From: sibeen
ID: 1865595
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Woodie said:
dv said:
Russian ‘execution squads’ hunting demoralized deserters, defectors
Since the beginning of the war in February, Kyiv has released videos of captured — and often bewildered — Russian soldiers explaining they had no idea they were invading Ukraine. Some have said they chose to surrender rather than fight.
Ukrainian intelligence services have also been bombarding Russian phone numbers since the conflict began instructing soldiers — many of whom are young conscripts — how to surrender.
Britain’s The Daily Mail reports that this week a Russian tank commander pulled the plug on fighting and texted back he wanted to defect. A rendez-vous was arranged and he surrendered.
https://torontosun.com/news/world/russian-execution-squads-hunting-demoralized-deserters-defectors
I mean this is all conjecture, hey what but. So where’s the exclusive interviews with all of them, with A Current Affair? Or even Oprah? Otherwise it didn’t happen.😮
That would actually be against the Geneva Convention
Whereas bombing schools, hospitals and theatres is just business as usual.
Date: 27/03/2022 00:42:43
From: dv
ID: 1865597
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
dv said:
Woodie said:
I mean this is all conjecture, hey what but. So where’s the exclusive interviews with all of them, with A Current Affair? Or even Oprah? Otherwise it didn’t happen.😮
That would actually be against the Geneva Convention
Whereas bombing schools, hospitals and theatres is just business as usual.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Date: 27/03/2022 01:07:52
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865606
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Contents of a pack of Ukrainian army daily rations.
Contains 17 different items:
Wheat porridge with beef; rice and meat soup; beef stew; chicken with vegetables; pork and vegetables; crackers; biscuits; tea bags; coffee; blackcurrant drink; honey; sugar; black pepper; chewing gum; bar of dark chocolate; plastic spoons; moist wipes.

Date: 27/03/2022 01:13:39
From: sibeen
ID: 1865608
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Contents of a pack of Ukrainian army daily rations.
Contains 17 different items:
Wheat porridge with beef; rice and meat soup; beef stew; chicken with vegetables; pork and vegetables; crackers; biscuits; tea bags; coffee; blackcurrant drink; honey; sugar; black pepper; chewing gum; bar of dark chocolate; plastic spoons; moist wipes.

Moist wipes? Jaysus, they’ve gone soft in the services since my day. We were given four sheets of course paper.
Date: 27/03/2022 01:30:08
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865609
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Czechs remind the people working for the Russian Embassy in Prague that one month has passed since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Date: 27/03/2022 08:46:38
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1865623
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Will they run out of generals before they run out of missiles or tanks?
https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1507656314440273920
“The Russian Army command is failing to reinforce troops in Ukraine with workable tanks and APCs from the storages because optics, electronics, engine parts on the majority of them were stolen, meaning only 1 out of 10 battle tanks in the storages of the 4th #Russian tank division is battle-ready. Because of this, a commander of the 13th regiment of the 4th Rus. tank division committed suicide.Source: Intel. Dept. of Ukr. MoD
==============
https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-brigade-commander-killed-by-his-own-forces/
LONDON — A Russian brigade commander has been killed by his own forces in another indication of boiling discontent among Russian forces deployed in and around Ukraine, Western officials said.
The colonel, commander of the 37th Motor Rifle Brigade, was run over by an armored vehicle and suffered grave injuries to both legs.
“The brigade commander was killed by his own troops, we believe, as a consequence of the scale of losses that have been taken by his brigade,” one official said. “We believe that he was killed by his own troops deliberately. We believe that he was run over by his own troops
===============
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60807538
Ukraine’s defence ministry says another Russian general, Lt Gen Yakov Rezantsev, was killed in a strike near the southern city of Kherson.
Rezantsev was the commander of Russia’s 49th combined army.
A western official said he was the seventh general to die in Ukraine, and the second lieutenant general – the highest rank officer reportedly killed.
It is thought that low morale among Russian troops has forced senior officers closer to the front line.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:12:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865625
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
That would actually be against the Geneva Convention
Whereas bombing schools, hospitals and theatres is just business as usual.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
If it means one less tank to fire high explosive into people’s homes and refuges, then it does make a right.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:15:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865626
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
sibeen said:
Whereas bombing schools, hospitals and theatres is just business as usual.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
If it means one less tank to fire high explosive into people’s homes and refuges, then it does make a right.
I disagree. Mistreatment of POWs is something that must be resisted in all forms.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:23:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865627
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 09:27:03
From: dv
ID: 1865628
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
If it means one less tank to fire high explosive into people’s homes and refuges, then it does make a right.
I disagree. Mistreatment of POWs is something that must be resisted in all forms.
Quite apart from which, pragmatically we want the Russians to surrender. That’s less likely if they are mistreated.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:28:34
From: Tamb
ID: 1865629
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
If it means one less tank to fire high explosive into people’s homes and refuges, then it does make a right.
I disagree. Mistreatment of POWs is something that must be resisted in all forms.
Quite apart from which, pragmatically we want the Russians to surrender. That’s less likely if they are mistreated.
The Russians won’t surrender they will withdraw from the Ukraine & pretend none of it happened.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:35:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865630
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
If it means one less tank to fire high explosive into people’s homes and refuges, then it does make a right.
I disagree. Mistreatment of POWs is something that must be resisted in all forms.
Oops, i may have missed something there. I thought we were talking about a tank commander surrendering. My mistake.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:37:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865631
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
If it means one less tank to fire high explosive into people’s homes and refuges, then it does make a right.
I disagree. Mistreatment of POWs is something that must be resisted in all forms.
Oops, i may have missed something there. I thought we were talking about a tank commander surrendering. My mistake.
I didn’t see where the mistreatment arrived either.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:37:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865632
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
The Russians won’t surrender they will withdraw from the Ukraine & pretend none of it happened.
Then there’ll be some big investigations, bums kicked, names taken.
“AND JUST WHO THE F*** IN THIS REGIMENT HAS BEEN SELLING ENGINE PARTS FROM THE RESERVE TANKS?!”
Date: 27/03/2022 09:39:51
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865633
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
we mean your sentiments are all heard and appreciated but the truth is, the Right are made up of far more than just 2 wrongs
Date: 27/03/2022 09:43:17
From: Tamb
ID: 1865634
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
The Russians won’t surrender they will withdraw from the Ukraine & pretend none of it happened.
Then there’ll be some big investigations, bums kicked, names taken.
“AND JUST WHO THE F*** IN THIS REGIMENT HAS BEEN SELLING ENGINE PARTS FROM THE RESERVE TANKS?!”
There’s a lot of dead generals to blame for causing the “misunderstanding”.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:44:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865635
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
we mean your sentiments are all heard and appreciated but the truth is, the Right are made up of far more than just 2 wrongs
The right are just wrong?
Date: 27/03/2022 09:44:22
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865636
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I disagree. Mistreatment of POWs is something that must be resisted in all forms.
Oops, i may have missed something there. I thought we were talking about a tank commander surrendering. My mistake.
I didn’t see where the mistreatment arrived either.
Forcing POWs to denounce their superiors or to use them as a propaganda tool in the media is the mistreatment against the Geneva Convention we are talking about.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:45:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865637
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
it begins
US President Joe Biden says Russia’s Vladimir Putin ‘cannot remain in power’
“For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power,” Mr Biden said at the very end of a speech in Poland’s capital that served as the capstone on a four-day trip to Europe.
A White House official said Mr Biden was “not discussing Putin’s power in Russia or regime change”.
For weeks, Russian officials and commentators had strongly denied that the country was planning an attack on neighboring Ukraine. At points, they ridiculed such claims from the United States and its allies as “hysteria” and “fairy tales.”
Western officials have expressed concern about the risk of conflict since late last year, citing an unusual buildup of Russian forces and military machinery near the border with Ukraine. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov dismissed the idea, telling reporters that “Russia doesn’t threaten anyone” and that it was allowed to move troops within its borders.
Any suggestion that Russia was planning to invade Ukraine was a “hollow and unfounded attempt to incite tensions,” Peskov said in November.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:45:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865638
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Oops, i may have missed something there. I thought we were talking about a tank commander surrendering. My mistake.
I didn’t see where the mistreatment arrived either.
Forcing POWs to denounce their superiors or to use them as a propaganda tool in the media is the mistreatment against the Geneva Convention we are talking about.
If they surrendered, then they don’t need to be forced to denounce their superiors.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:46:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865639
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
we mean your sentiments are all heard and appreciated but the truth is, the Right are made up of far more than just 2 wrongs
The right are just wrong?
know they are unjust wrong
Date: 27/03/2022 09:48:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865640
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
roughbarked said:
I didn’t see where the mistreatment arrived either.
Forcing POWs to denounce their superiors or to use them as a propaganda tool in the media is the mistreatment against the Geneva Convention we are talking about.
If they surrendered, then they don’t need to be forced to denounce their superiors.
No. Just because they surrendered doesn’t mean they are expected to speak out against the war. If they do it of their own free will that’s fine but the common soldier who will have family at home who could be targeted if they speak out need do nothing but wait out the war in silence.
Date: 27/03/2022 09:49:52
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1865642
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 09:52:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865643
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
roughbarked said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Forcing POWs to denounce their superiors or to use them as a propaganda tool in the media is the mistreatment against the Geneva Convention we are talking about.
If they surrendered, then they don’t need to be forced to denounce their superiors.
No. Just because they surrendered doesn’t mean they are expected to speak out against the war. If they do it of their own free will that’s fine but the common soldier who will have family at home who could be targeted if they speak out need do nothing but wait out the war in silence.
I see.
Date: 27/03/2022 10:27:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865646
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
roughbarked said:
If they surrendered, then they don’t need to be forced to denounce their superiors.
No. Just because they surrendered doesn’t mean they are expected to speak out against the war. If they do it of their own free will that’s fine but the common soldier who will have family at home who could be targeted if they speak out need do nothing but wait out the war in silence.
I see.
Yeah, that’s it. Once surrendered, they’re not to be considered as part of the war-making effort of either side.
They cease fighting, but they don’t have to co-operate with their captors beyond certain limits. They’re entitled to escape if they have an opportunity and the inclination, an their captors are entitled to re-capture them and penalise them to some degree, but not so that it endangers their well-being.
Prisoners can’t be used for work which directly benefits the war capability of their captors e.g. building defences. They can be used for non-military tasks, such as clearing rubble to aid civilian recovery efforts.
Neither should they be used for propaganda in favour of their captors, or against their own military.
Date: 27/03/2022 10:46:23
From: party_pants
ID: 1865647
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
The Russians won’t surrender they will withdraw from the Ukraine & pretend none of it happened.
Then there’ll be some big investigations, bums kicked, names taken.
“AND JUST WHO THE F*** IN THIS REGIMENT HAS BEEN SELLING ENGINE PARTS FROM THE RESERVE TANKS?!”
… then we need to talk about the fuel. Who’s been stealing the fuel and selling it?
Date: 27/03/2022 10:51:53
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1865648
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 10:53:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865650
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
The Russians won’t surrender they will withdraw from the Ukraine & pretend none of it happened.
Then there’ll be some big investigations, bums kicked, names taken.
“AND JUST WHO THE F*** IN THIS REGIMENT HAS BEEN SELLING ENGINE PARTS FROM THE RESERVE TANKS?!”
… then we need to talk about the fuel. Who’s been stealing the fuel and selling it?
At today’s prices, just about anyone who can.
Date: 27/03/2022 12:23:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865661
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 12:30:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865664
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Many thousands of young middle-class Russians now fleeing their country for Istanbul and elsewhere.
‘We can’t see the future’: Russians fleeing war seek solace in Istanbul
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/russians-fleeing-war-seek-solace-in-istanbul
Date: 27/03/2022 12:33:29
From: party_pants
ID: 1865669
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Many thousands of young middle-class Russians now fleeing their country for Istanbul and elsewhere.
‘We can’t see the future’: Russians fleeing war seek solace in Istanbul
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/russians-fleeing-war-seek-solace-in-istanbul
It must be very difficult for them. I doubt they will be openly welcomed in most places.
Date: 27/03/2022 12:38:05
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865674
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Many thousands of young middle-class Russians now fleeing their country for Istanbul and elsewhere.
‘We can’t see the future’: Russians fleeing war seek solace in Istanbul
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/russians-fleeing-war-seek-solace-in-istanbul
It must be very difficult for them. I doubt they will be openly welcomed in most places.
Some might argue they’d be of more use if they remained in Russia and helped organise resistance to the regime.
Date: 27/03/2022 12:40:45
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865676
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Many thousands of young middle-class Russians now fleeing their country for Istanbul and elsewhere.
‘We can’t see the future’: Russians fleeing war seek solace in Istanbul
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/russians-fleeing-war-seek-solace-in-istanbul
It must be very difficult for them. I doubt they will be openly welcomed in most places.
Some might argue they’d be of more use if they remained in Russia and helped organise resistance to the regime.
If you can’t convince your own grandma that Putin’s a tyrant what chance have you got with someone else’s’?
Date: 27/03/2022 12:41:53
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1865678
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
It must be very difficult for them. I doubt they will be openly welcomed in most places.
Some might argue they’d be of more use if they remained in Russia and helped organise resistance to the regime.
If you can’t convince your own grandma that Putin’s a tyrant what chance have you got with someone else’s’?
Plus not everyone is capable of that kind of action. How many here would do that with the risks involved? I wager not many.
Date: 27/03/2022 12:42:16
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865679
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 13:03:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865685
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
It must be very difficult for them. I doubt they will be openly welcomed in most places.
Some might argue they’d be of more use if they remained in Russia and helped organise resistance to the regime.
If you can’t convince your own grandma that Putin’s a tyrant what chance have you got with someone else’s’?
Fair enough but I expect the regime is probably glad to see the back of them, since so far they’re mostly liberal arty types.
They’ll be more concerned if they start losing a lot more tech, science and medical people, business people etc.
Date: 27/03/2022 13:14:47
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865687
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 13:44:32
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865692
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Many thousands of young middle-class Russians now fleeing their country for Istanbul and elsewhere.
‘We can’t see the future’: Russians fleeing war seek solace in Istanbul
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/russians-fleeing-war-seek-solace-in-istanbul
aha so it was the plan all along to play the true Russian strength and stage a failing war to be able to disperse infiltrators across the world nice
Date: 27/03/2022 13:46:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865693
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ChrispenEvan said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Bubblecar said:
Some might argue they’d be of more use if they remained in Russia and helped organise resistance to the regime.
If you can’t convince your own grandma that Putin’s a tyrant what chance have you got with someone else’s’?
Plus not everyone is capable of that kind of action. How many here would do that with the risks involved? I wager not many.
oh come on everyone knows that ForeverCOVID-19 is the winner we should all throw our souls behind
Date: 27/03/2022 14:33:34
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1865705
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 15:10:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865721
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Zelenskiy calls on US and Europe to supply planes and tanks
In his nightly address to the Ukrainian people and the world, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has called on the US and Europe to supply more planes, tanks, anti-missiles defences and anti-ship weaponry, arguing that Europe’s own security was at stake.
“This is what our partners have. This is what is covered with dust at their storage facilities. After all, this is all for freedom not only in Ukraine – this is for freedom in Europe,” he said.
“So who runs the Euro-Atlantic community? Is it still Moscow because of intimidation?” he added.
Referring to those who are defending the besieged port city of Mariupol, he continued:
I wish at least a percentage of their courage to those who have been thinking for 31 days how to transfer a dozen or two of planes or tanks …
Ukraine cannot shoot down Russian missiles using shotguns, machine guns, which are too much in supplies.
And it is impossible to unblock Mariupol without a sufficient number of tanks, other armored vehicles and, of course, aircraft. All defenders of Ukraine know that. All defenders of Mariupol know that. Thousands of people know that – citizens, civilians who are dying there in the blockade.
The United States knows that. All European politicians know. We told everyone. And this should be known as soon as possible by as many people on Earth as possible. So that everyone understands who and why was simply afraid to prevent this tragedy. Afraid to simply make a decision.”
Guardian Live
Date: 27/03/2022 15:11:18
From: dv
ID: 1865722
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
I disagree. Mistreatment of POWs is something that must be resisted in all forms.
Oops, i may have missed something there. I thought we were talking about a tank commander surrendering. My mistake.
I didn’t see where the mistreatment arrived either.
Parading POWs on TV on Oprah was the suggestion, and displaying or identifying them is against the GC
Date: 27/03/2022 15:20:47
From: dv
ID: 1865727
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
So the Russians have realised they’ve done goofed and they can’t displace the government or even make the current government flee, they can’t take the major cities, they are losing troops like mad and are facing mutinies, they’ve lost comingbup on a thousand tanks and trucks and planes and a few ships even, they have foot shortages at home, Ukraine has a steady stream of antitank and antiaircraft weapons coming in, and they are going to scale down their objectives to officially occupy the Donbas rather than the unofficial occupation they’ve been conducting for the best part of a decade.
On one hand this would reduce the rate of destruction of property and civilian lives, but there’s part of me that wants the Ukrainians to pursue the retreating tanks all the way to previous line of conflict in the Donbas, and also wants the West to keep the sanctions applied until the Russians are all the way out of Ukraine as defined by the 1991 boundaries.
Date: 27/03/2022 15:20:53
From: party_pants
ID: 1865728
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy calls on US and Europe to supply planes and tanks
In his nightly address to the Ukrainian people and the world, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has called on the US and Europe to supply more planes, tanks, anti-missiles defences and anti-ship weaponry, arguing that Europe’s own security was at stake.
“This is what our partners have. This is what is covered with dust at their storage facilities. After all, this is all for freedom not only in Ukraine – this is for freedom in Europe,” he said.
“So who runs the Euro-Atlantic community? Is it still Moscow because of intimidation?” he added.
Referring to those who are defending the besieged port city of Mariupol, he continued:
I wish at least a percentage of their courage to those who have been thinking for 31 days how to transfer a dozen or two of planes or tanks …
Ukraine cannot shoot down Russian missiles using shotguns, machine guns, which are too much in supplies.
And it is impossible to unblock Mariupol without a sufficient number of tanks, other armored vehicles and, of course, aircraft. All defenders of Ukraine know that. All defenders of Mariupol know that. Thousands of people know that – citizens, civilians who are dying there in the blockade.
The United States knows that. All European politicians know. We told everyone. And this should be known as soon as possible by as many people on Earth as possible. So that everyone understands who and why was simply afraid to prevent this tragedy. Afraid to simply make a decision.”
Guardian Live
The fear of not starting a proper shooting war between NATA and Russia directly is a valid consideration, not a lack of courage IMHO.
I think Ukraine should be provided with whatever military equipment they can operate themselves, or that can be operated remotely or autonomously. So, drones rather than combat aircraft with (NATO) human pilots. I don’t think the Ukrainian air force could take delivery of any western type combat aircraft and get them to any sort of operational efficiency without a lot of training.
Date: 27/03/2022 15:27:39
From: sibeen
ID: 1865729
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy calls on US and Europe to supply planes and tanks
In his nightly address to the Ukrainian people and the world, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has called on the US and Europe to supply more planes, tanks, anti-missiles defences and anti-ship weaponry, arguing that Europe’s own security was at stake.
“This is what our partners have. This is what is covered with dust at their storage facilities. After all, this is all for freedom not only in Ukraine – this is for freedom in Europe,” he said.
“So who runs the Euro-Atlantic community? Is it still Moscow because of intimidation?” he added.
Referring to those who are defending the besieged port city of Mariupol, he continued:
I wish at least a percentage of their courage to those who have been thinking for 31 days how to transfer a dozen or two of planes or tanks …
Ukraine cannot shoot down Russian missiles using shotguns, machine guns, which are too much in supplies.
And it is impossible to unblock Mariupol without a sufficient number of tanks, other armored vehicles and, of course, aircraft. All defenders of Ukraine know that. All defenders of Mariupol know that. Thousands of people know that – citizens, civilians who are dying there in the blockade.
The United States knows that. All European politicians know. We told everyone. And this should be known as soon as possible by as many people on Earth as possible. So that everyone understands who and why was simply afraid to prevent this tragedy. Afraid to simply make a decision.”
Guardian Live
The fear of not starting a proper shooting war between NATA and Russia directly is a valid consideration, not a lack of courage IMHO.
I think Ukraine should be provided with whatever military equipment they can operate themselves, or that can be operated remotely or autonomously. So, drones rather than combat aircraft with (NATO) human pilots. I don’t think the Ukrainian air force could take delivery of any western type combat aircraft and get them to any sort of operational efficiency without a lot of training.
One major change is that a month ago NATO was very wary of getting into a land battle war with the Russians. Weren’t sure how it would go down. We now know, the Russians would get blown away in very short order. NATO knows it and the Russians know it.
This makes things WAY more dangerous. The Russian nukes really come into play under the new scenario.
Date: 27/03/2022 15:27:52
From: party_pants
ID: 1865730
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy calls on US and Europe to supply planes and tanks
In his nightly address to the Ukrainian people and the world, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has called on the US and Europe to supply more planes, tanks, anti-missiles defences and anti-ship weaponry, arguing that Europe’s own security was at stake.
“This is what our partners have. This is what is covered with dust at their storage facilities. After all, this is all for freedom not only in Ukraine – this is for freedom in Europe,” he said.
“So who runs the Euro-Atlantic community? Is it still Moscow because of intimidation?” he added.
Referring to those who are defending the besieged port city of Mariupol, he continued:
I wish at least a percentage of their courage to those who have been thinking for 31 days how to transfer a dozen or two of planes or tanks …
Ukraine cannot shoot down Russian missiles using shotguns, machine guns, which are too much in supplies.
And it is impossible to unblock Mariupol without a sufficient number of tanks, other armored vehicles and, of course, aircraft. All defenders of Ukraine know that. All defenders of Mariupol know that. Thousands of people know that – citizens, civilians who are dying there in the blockade.
The United States knows that. All European politicians know. We told everyone. And this should be known as soon as possible by as many people on Earth as possible. So that everyone understands who and why was simply afraid to prevent this tragedy. Afraid to simply make a decision.”
Guardian Live
The fear of not starting a proper shooting war between NATA and Russia directly is a valid consideration, not a lack of courage IMHO.
I think Ukraine should be provided with whatever military equipment they can operate themselves, or that can be operated remotely or autonomously. So, drones rather than combat aircraft with (NATO) human pilots. I don’t think the Ukrainian air force could take delivery of any western type combat aircraft and get them to any sort of operational efficiency without a lot of training.
NATO.
Date: 27/03/2022 15:29:07
From: party_pants
ID: 1865731
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy calls on US and Europe to supply planes and tanks
In his nightly address to the Ukrainian people and the world, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has called on the US and Europe to supply more planes, tanks, anti-missiles defences and anti-ship weaponry, arguing that Europe’s own security was at stake.
“This is what our partners have. This is what is covered with dust at their storage facilities. After all, this is all for freedom not only in Ukraine – this is for freedom in Europe,” he said.
“So who runs the Euro-Atlantic community? Is it still Moscow because of intimidation?” he added.
Referring to those who are defending the besieged port city of Mariupol, he continued:
I wish at least a percentage of their courage to those who have been thinking for 31 days how to transfer a dozen or two of planes or tanks …
Ukraine cannot shoot down Russian missiles using shotguns, machine guns, which are too much in supplies.
And it is impossible to unblock Mariupol without a sufficient number of tanks, other armored vehicles and, of course, aircraft. All defenders of Ukraine know that. All defenders of Mariupol know that. Thousands of people know that – citizens, civilians who are dying there in the blockade.
The United States knows that. All European politicians know. We told everyone. And this should be known as soon as possible by as many people on Earth as possible. So that everyone understands who and why was simply afraid to prevent this tragedy. Afraid to simply make a decision.”
Guardian Live
The fear of not starting a proper shooting war between NATA and Russia directly is a valid consideration, not a lack of courage IMHO.
I think Ukraine should be provided with whatever military equipment they can operate themselves, or that can be operated remotely or autonomously. So, drones rather than combat aircraft with (NATO) human pilots. I don’t think the Ukrainian air force could take delivery of any western type combat aircraft and get them to any sort of operational efficiency without a lot of training.
One major change is that a month ago NATO was very wary of getting into a land battle war with the Russians. Weren’t sure how it would go down. We now know, the Russians would get blown away in very short order. NATO knows it and the Russians know it.
This makes things WAY more dangerous. The Russian nukes really come into play under the new scenario.
Yes. This actually makes the situation less stable and more dangerous.
Date: 27/03/2022 15:34:01
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1865732
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
so Biden was right and we really should be pursuing regime change in this far eastern terrorist state
Date: 27/03/2022 15:35:30
From: dv
ID: 1865733
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
so Biden was right and we really should be pursuing regime change in this far eastern terrorist state
I’m not an expert on any of this but I feel like he should not have said that out loud
Date: 27/03/2022 15:36:38
From: party_pants
ID: 1865734
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
so Biden was right and we really should be pursuing regime change in this far eastern terrorist state
I can’t see any political solution right now that involves Putin both accepting defeat and remaining in power.
Can you?
Date: 27/03/2022 15:36:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865735
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
So the Russians have realised they’ve done goofed and they can’t displace the government or even make the current government flee, they can’t take the major cities, they are losing troops like mad and are facing mutinies, they’ve lost comingbup on a thousand tanks and trucks and planes and a few ships even, they have foot shortages at home, Ukraine has a steady stream of antitank and antiaircraft weapons coming in, and they are going to scale down their objectives to officially occupy the Donbas rather than the unofficial occupation they’ve been conducting for the best part of a decade.
On one hand this would reduce the rate of destruction of property and civilian lives, but there’s part of me that wants the Ukrainians to pursue the retreating tanks all the way to previous line of conflict in the Donbas, and also wants the West to keep the sanctions applied until the Russians are all the way out of Ukraine as defined by the 1991 boundaries.
Take it back take it back. Take that thing right out of here.
Right away, right away, take that thing right out of here.
Date: 27/03/2022 15:39:30
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865739
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
so Biden was right and we really should be pursuing regime change in this far eastern terrorist state
I’m not an expert on any of this but I feel like he should not have said that out loud
I think it was a senior’s moment.
Date: 27/03/2022 15:46:40
From: dv
ID: 1865742
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:

That’s awesome
Date: 27/03/2022 16:33:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865750
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
One major change is that a month ago NATO was very wary of getting into a land battle war with the Russians. Weren’t sure how it would go down. We now know, the Russians would get blown away in very short order. NATO knows it and the Russians know it.
This makes things WAY more dangerous. The Russian nukes really come into play under the new scenario.
Yes. This actually makes the situation less stable and more dangerous.
It’s very likely that Putin and his henchmen were also surprised at how crappy their armed forces turned out to be.
So they’re probably planning to spend up big on modernising and re-equipping etc.
Which is a very compelling reason to keep those Western sanctions going for the long term, to try to ensure they can’t afford to do so.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:39:50
From: sibeen
ID: 1865751
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
sibeen said:
One major change is that a month ago NATO was very wary of getting into a land battle war with the Russians. Weren’t sure how it would go down. We now know, the Russians would get blown away in very short order. NATO knows it and the Russians know it.
This makes things WAY more dangerous. The Russian nukes really come into play under the new scenario.
Yes. This actually makes the situation less stable and more dangerous.
It’s very likely that Putin and his henchmen were also surprised at how crappy their armed forces turned out to be.
So they’re probably planning to spend up big on modernising and re-equipping etc.
Which is a very compelling reason to keep those Western sanctions going for the long term, to try to ensure they can’t afford to do so.
It’s not the equipment that is the major issue, it is the manpower and how the command and control is carried out. It’s all top down so middle ranking and junior officers don’t get any say or initiative. It is even worse at the senior NCO level and that is where modern armies get their impetuous from. Without your senior NCOs being competent you’re severely fucked over. They have been trying to fix that problem for a few decades but haven’t gotten far.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:42:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865752
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Spiny Norman said:

That’s awesome
It knocks my little effort earlier about the wattle/‘Space Command’ badge for six:
Ian said:
Yeah.
I wasn’t sure if this was a pisstake or not when I first saw it..
I assume those bunches of grapes are supposed to be wattle.
Not much of that out there in the final frontier.
“This here’s the wattle — the emblem of our land.
You can stick it in a bottle or you can hold it in yer hand.”
CS said: You can get a sprig of it and wave it in yer face
you can paint it on a rocket, and send it into space.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:44:39
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865753
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
Yes. This actually makes the situation less stable and more dangerous.
It’s very likely that Putin and his henchmen were also surprised at how crappy their armed forces turned out to be.
So they’re probably planning to spend up big on modernising and re-equipping etc.
Which is a very compelling reason to keep those Western sanctions going for the long term, to try to ensure they can’t afford to do so.
It’s not the equipment that is the major issue, it is the manpower and how the command and control is carried out. It’s all top down so middle ranking and junior officers don’t get any say or initiative. It is even worse at the senior NCO level and that is where modern armies get their impetuous from. Without your senior NCOs being competent you’re severely fucked over. They have been trying to fix that problem for a few decades but haven’t gotten far.
They don’t actually have NCOs at all, is my understanding.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:48:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865754
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
So they’re probably planning to spend up big on modernising and re-equipping etc.
Which is a very compelling reason to keep those Western sanctions going for the long term, to try to ensure they can’t afford to do so.
Funnily enough, that a was a big factor in them ‘losing the Cold War’.
By the mid-80s, the Russians were looking at a massive re-equipment and update programme, and they just could not afford it if they were to keep their forces at the scale they’d thought necessary. Add to that the apparent determination of the Americans to make SDI work and bugger the cost, plus the drubbing they were getting in Afghanistan, and the Russians found the whole thing to be rather too much to bear.
There was a lot of talk around 1984 that ‘if they don’t come this year, they’re not coming at all’. And so it turned out to be.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:50:48
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1865755
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
Zelenskiy calls on US and Europe to supply planes and tanks
In his nightly address to the Ukrainian people and the world, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has called on the US and Europe to supply more planes, tanks, anti-missiles defences and anti-ship weaponry, arguing that Europe’s own security was at stake.
“This is what our partners have. This is what is covered with dust at their storage facilities. After all, this is all for freedom not only in Ukraine – this is for freedom in Europe,” he said.
“So who runs the Euro-Atlantic community? Is it still Moscow because of intimidation?” he added.
Referring to those who are defending the besieged port city of Mariupol, he continued:
I wish at least a percentage of their courage to those who have been thinking for 31 days how to transfer a dozen or two of planes or tanks …
Ukraine cannot shoot down Russian missiles using shotguns, machine guns, which are too much in supplies.
And it is impossible to unblock Mariupol without a sufficient number of tanks, other armored vehicles and, of course, aircraft. All defenders of Ukraine know that. All defenders of Mariupol know that. Thousands of people know that – citizens, civilians who are dying there in the blockade.
The United States knows that. All European politicians know. We told everyone. And this should be known as soon as possible by as many people on Earth as possible. So that everyone understands who and why was simply afraid to prevent this tragedy. Afraid to simply make a decision.”
Guardian Live
The fear of not starting a proper shooting war between NATA and Russia directly is a valid consideration, not a lack of courage IMHO.
I think Ukraine should be provided with whatever military equipment they can operate themselves, or that can be operated remotely or autonomously. So, drones rather than combat aircraft with (NATO) human pilots. I don’t think the Ukrainian air force could take delivery of any western type combat aircraft and get them to any sort of operational efficiency without a lot of training.
nods
There would be a strong argument for supplying defensive weapons to Ukraine to protect their cities from missiles. If those same SAMs were used to bring down enemy planes in Ukrainian airspace, well…
“Today Ukrainian military destroyed 18 air targets: one plane, twelve drones and 5 missiles”
Date: 27/03/2022 16:54:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865756
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
It’s not the equipment that is the major issue, it is the manpower and how the command and control is carried out. It’s all top down so middle ranking and junior officers don’t get any say or initiative. It is even worse at the senior NCO level and that is where modern armies get their impetuous from. Without your senior NCOs being competent you’re severely fucked over. They have been trying to fix that problem for a few decades but haven’t gotten far.
Like i said earlier, they’re not really professional forces as you’d think of such.
A high proportion of conscripts who certainly don’t want to be there, don’t want to learn any more than the bare minimum they need between now and their discharge, and officers and NCOS don’t see any point in spending lots of time and effort trying to teach people who will be out in a few months anyway.
Russia’s armed forces are not most peoples’ career of choice. Their volunteer recruits tend to be those with few prospects outside of the military, and often aren’t the brightest bulbs in the Xmas light chain. The saying used to be that riflemen needed only strong hands to carry a rifle and strong backs to carry the dead, but in reality, you need some wits about you, too.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:55:14
From: sibeen
ID: 1865757
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s very likely that Putin and his henchmen were also surprised at how crappy their armed forces turned out to be.
So they’re probably planning to spend up big on modernising and re-equipping etc.
Which is a very compelling reason to keep those Western sanctions going for the long term, to try to ensure they can’t afford to do so.
It’s not the equipment that is the major issue, it is the manpower and how the command and control is carried out. It’s all top down so middle ranking and junior officers don’t get any say or initiative. It is even worse at the senior NCO level and that is where modern armies get their impetuous from. Without your senior NCOs being competent you’re severely fucked over. They have been trying to fix that problem for a few decades but haven’t gotten far.
They don’t actually have NCOs at all, is my understanding.
Thomo, who occasionally posts here, his father was at one point the most senior NCO in the Australian Army. He was the first RSM-A (Regimental Sergeant Major of the Army)
Date: 27/03/2022 16:55:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865758
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
It’s very likely that Putin and his henchmen were also surprised at how crappy their armed forces turned out to be.
So they’re probably planning to spend up big on modernising and re-equipping etc.
Which is a very compelling reason to keep those Western sanctions going for the long term, to try to ensure they can’t afford to do so.
It’s not the equipment that is the major issue, it is the manpower and how the command and control is carried out. It’s all top down so middle ranking and junior officers don’t get any say or initiative. It is even worse at the senior NCO level and that is where modern armies get their impetuous from. Without your senior NCOs being competent you’re severely fucked over. They have been trying to fix that problem for a few decades but haven’t gotten far.
They don’t actually have NCOs at all, is my understanding.
And reorganising the command & control structure etc would also presumably be expensive because it would require generally improving the manpower quality and adding value to the experience with higher salaries, better conditions, more thorough training and so on.
All cost lotta rubles.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:57:07
From: sibeen
ID: 1865759
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
It’s not the equipment that is the major issue, it is the manpower and how the command and control is carried out. It’s all top down so middle ranking and junior officers don’t get any say or initiative. It is even worse at the senior NCO level and that is where modern armies get their impetuous from. Without your senior NCOs being competent you’re severely fucked over. They have been trying to fix that problem for a few decades but haven’t gotten far.
They don’t actually have NCOs at all, is my understanding.
Thomo, who occasionally posts here, his father was at one point the most senior NCO in the Australian Army. He was the first RSM-A (Regimental Sergeant Major of the Army)
I had the pleasure of having him glare at me once :)
Date: 27/03/2022 16:57:33
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1865760
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
so Biden was right and we really should be pursuing regime change in this far eastern terrorist state
I can’t see any political solution right now that involves Putin both accepting defeat and remaining in power.
Can you?
He doesn’t have to accept defeat. His troops just dig themselves in while they bomb the shit out of Ukraine until there is hardly anybody left alive. He generously (and forcibly) rehomes those refugees in Siberia while it rebuilds the cities to be repopulated by loyal servants. Democratic elections are held and Putin’s man gets in. Russia has all the oil and wheat it needs, and what it can’t make itself it trades off China.
…and they all live happily ever after.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:57:35
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865761
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
It’s not the equipment that is the major issue, it is the manpower and how the command and control is carried out. It’s all top down so middle ranking and junior officers don’t get any say or initiative. It is even worse at the senior NCO level and that is where modern armies get their impetuous from. Without your senior NCOs being competent you’re severely fucked over. They have been trying to fix that problem for a few decades but haven’t gotten far.
They don’t actually have NCOs at all, is my understanding.
Thomo, who occasionally posts here, his father was at one point the most senior NCO in the Australian Army. He was the first RSM-A (Regimental Sergeant Major of the Army)
I mean the Russians don’t have NCOs. They have an officer class, trained for that role, and the great mass of ordinary conscripts and contract troops (with most just contracted for a year), none of whom have any rank that gives them battlefield authority.
Date: 27/03/2022 16:59:43
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865762
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
They don’t actually have NCOs at all, is my understanding.
Thomo, who occasionally posts here, his father was at one point the most senior NCO in the Australian Army. He was the first RSM-A (Regimental Sergeant Major of the Army)
I mean the Russians don’t have NCOs. They have an officer class, trained for that role, and the great mass of ordinary conscripts and contract troops (with most just contracted for a year), none of whom have any rank that gives them battlefield authority.
They have five grades of sergeant,and two grades of warrant officer.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:01:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865763
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
so Biden was right and we really should be pursuing regime change in this far eastern terrorist state
I can’t see any political solution right now that involves Putin both accepting defeat and remaining in power.
Can you?
He doesn’t have to accept defeat. His troops just dig themselves in while they bomb the shit out of Ukraine until there is hardly anybody left alive. He generously (and forcibly) rehomes those refugees in Siberia while it rebuilds the cities to be repopulated by loyal servants. Democratic elections are held and Putin’s man gets in. Russia has all the oil and wheat it needs, and what it can’t make itself it trades off China.
…and they all live happily ever after.
Can Putin sustain 50,000 dead and the same wounded? The Russian public will find out within months the scale of casualties all the time they have to line up for bread and whatnot.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:01:22
From: sibeen
ID: 1865764
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
They don’t actually have NCOs at all, is my understanding.
Thomo, who occasionally posts here, his father was at one point the most senior NCO in the Australian Army. He was the first RSM-A (Regimental Sergeant Major of the Army)
I mean the Russians don’t have NCOs. They have an officer class, trained for that role, and the great mass of ordinary conscripts and contract troops (with most just contracted for a year), none of whom have any rank that gives them battlefield authority.
Yeah, I knew what you meant :) They really have been trying to change that in Russia. A few years ago they sacked a shedload of officers so that the NCOs could take more control. It didn’t pan out and they had to bring about half of the officers back in; but they have realised that it is a problem for quite awhile and have been taking steps to overcome the problem, but it does take a generation or two to filter through.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:03:41
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865765
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Thomo, who occasionally posts here, his father was at one point the most senior NCO in the Australian Army. He was the first RSM-A (Regimental Sergeant Major of the Army)
I mean the Russians don’t have NCOs. They have an officer class, trained for that role, and the great mass of ordinary conscripts and contract troops (with most just contracted for a year), none of whom have any rank that gives them battlefield authority.
They have five grades of sergeant,and two grades of warrant officer.
Ah. Seems they do have sergeants and corporals (they abolished warrant officers) but:
>At the level of Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs), ie the corporals and the sergeants, Russian military doctrine allows for almost no initiative, with these junior ranks always waiting for orders from above.
Prof Michael Clarke, a military expert at King’s College London, says Russian NCOs are beset with corruption and inefficiency and are deeply unpopular with those they command.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60867202
Date: 27/03/2022 17:06:58
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1865768
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:
party_pants said:
I can’t see any political solution right now that involves Putin both accepting defeat and remaining in power.
Can you?
He doesn’t have to accept defeat. His troops just dig themselves in while they bomb the shit out of Ukraine until there is hardly anybody left alive. He generously (and forcibly) rehomes those refugees in Siberia while it rebuilds the cities to be repopulated by loyal servants. Democratic elections are held and Putin’s man gets in. Russia has all the oil and wheat it needs, and what it can’t make itself it trades off China.
…and they all live happily ever after.
Can Putin sustain 50,000 dead and the same wounded? The Russian public will find out within months the scale of casualties all the time they have to line up for bread and whatnot.
The answer is “Yes”. But he doesn’t have to sustain that many. They dig themselves in and switch to defensive tactics and let the bombs and missiles do all the work.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:08:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865770
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:
He doesn’t have to accept defeat. His troops just dig themselves in while they bomb the shit out of Ukraine until there is hardly anybody left alive. He generously (and forcibly) rehomes those refugees in Siberia while it rebuilds the cities to be repopulated by loyal servants. Democratic elections are held and Putin’s man gets in. Russia has all the oil and wheat it needs, and what it can’t make itself it trades off China.
…and they all live happily ever after.
Can Putin sustain 50,000 dead and the same wounded? The Russian public will find out within months the scale of casualties all the time they have to line up for bread and whatnot.
The answer is “Yes”. But he doesn’t have to sustain that many. They dig themselves in and switch to defensive tactics and let the bombs and missiles do all the work.
I can’t see it happening myself.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:09:08
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1865771
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Can Putin sustain 50,000 dead and the same wounded? The Russian public will find out within months the scale of casualties all the time they have to line up for bread and whatnot.
The answer is “Yes”. But he doesn’t have to sustain that many. They dig themselves in and switch to defensive tactics and let the bombs and missiles do all the work.
I can’t see it happening myself.
We shall find out I guess because that’s what I think he’s doing.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:11:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865772
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Can Putin sustain 50,000 dead and the same wounded? The Russian public will find out within months the scale of casualties all the time they have to line up for bread and whatnot.
The answer is “Yes”. But he doesn’t have to sustain that many. They dig themselves in and switch to defensive tactics and let the bombs and missiles do all the work.
I can’t see it happening myself.
He would have to keep supplying and replacing those dug-in troops and ensuring they’re strong enough to resist multiple Ukrainian offensives. And deal with a Russian public increasingly pissed off by the whole pointless charade while their standard of living continues to plummet.
I don’t think that “long haul” scenario is going to be viable.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:14:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865773
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Dark Orange said:
The answer is “Yes”. But he doesn’t have to sustain that many. They dig themselves in and switch to defensive tactics and let the bombs and missiles do all the work.
I can’t see it happening myself.
We shall find out I guess because that’s what I think he’s doing.
After one month, the scale of losses and damage to the Russian economy is already rivalling all those years in Afghanistan, which were so damaging to the Soviet Union.
Can’t be sustainable for long.
Date: 27/03/2022 17:22:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865774
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Also bear in mind that the hand-held launchers etc the Ukrainians have in ample quantity should be just as effective against dug-in armour and infantry.
Hard to hide such defences in these days of drones and satellites.
Date: 27/03/2022 18:21:42
From: dv
ID: 1865779
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 18:31:40
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865782
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

This is not really the right thread for that, and I can’t agree with it anyway.
It’s true in some cases, certainly not in others.
Date: 27/03/2022 18:41:50
From: dv
ID: 1865791
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tangentially relevant due to Putin raising the cancel culture defence
Date: 27/03/2022 18:46:56
From: party_pants
ID: 1865794
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
party_pants said:
SCIENCE said:
so Biden was right and we really should be pursuing regime change in this far eastern terrorist state
I can’t see any political solution right now that involves Putin both accepting defeat and remaining in power.
Can you?
He doesn’t have to accept defeat. His troops just dig themselves in while they bomb the shit out of Ukraine until there is hardly anybody left alive. He generously (and forcibly) rehomes those refugees in Siberia while it rebuilds the cities to be repopulated by loyal servants. Democratic elections are held and Putin’s man gets in. Russia has all the oil and wheat it needs, and what it can’t make itself it trades off China.
…and they all live happily ever after.
Not really. There is one railway and one oil pipeline between Russia and China, in the far east. By all accounts both are already at capacity as China struggles to fill its energy needs. Increasing trade between the two countries is going to require a massive long term investment in infrastructure to make a meaning contribution to the Russian economy. Most Russians live in the European part of the country west of the Urals – along with most of their industry. All the infrastructure from the western parts heads further west, to Europe or the Black Sea or the Baltic. Any trade with China will have to go the long way around the Cape by ship for the time being while new infrastructure is built in the east. It will take years to complete.
Date: 27/03/2022 18:50:14
From: party_pants
ID: 1865795
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Bubblecar said:
sibeen said:
Thomo, who occasionally posts here, his father was at one point the most senior NCO in the Australian Army. He was the first RSM-A (Regimental Sergeant Major of the Army)
I mean the Russians don’t have NCOs. They have an officer class, trained for that role, and the great mass of ordinary conscripts and contract troops (with most just contracted for a year), none of whom have any rank that gives them battlefield authority.
Yeah, I knew what you meant :) They really have been trying to change that in Russia. A few years ago they sacked a shedload of officers so that the NCOs could take more control. It didn’t pan out and they had to bring about half of the officers back in; but they have realised that it is a problem for quite awhile and have been taking steps to overcome the problem, but it does take a generation or two to filter through.
They also have a large demographic problem. They had a birth rate crash in the early 2000s. Those people are now coming on to military age. This generation is much smaller than the cohorts which preceded it. The Russians are not going to have enough people to fill all the military positions. Much less so since the best and brightest keep leaving the country.
Date: 27/03/2022 18:51:46
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865796
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Dark Orange said:
party_pants said:
I can’t see any political solution right now that involves Putin both accepting defeat and remaining in power.
Can you?
He doesn’t have to accept defeat. His troops just dig themselves in while they bomb the shit out of Ukraine until there is hardly anybody left alive. He generously (and forcibly) rehomes those refugees in Siberia while it rebuilds the cities to be repopulated by loyal servants. Democratic elections are held and Putin’s man gets in. Russia has all the oil and wheat it needs, and what it can’t make itself it trades off China.
…and they all live happily ever after.
Not really. There is one railway and one oil pipeline between Russia and China, in the far east. By all accounts both are already at capacity as China struggles to fill its energy needs. Increasing trade between the two countries is going to require a massive long term investment in infrastructure to make a meaning contribution to the Russian economy. Most Russians live in the European part of the country west of the Urals – along with most of their industry. All the infrastructure from the western parts heads further west, to Europe or the Black Sea or the Baltic. Any trade with China will have to go the long way around the Cape by ship for the time being while new infrastructure is built in the east. It will take years to complete.
DO may be right in that Putin may continue to make drastic mistakes. But it’s not going to “work for him in the end” by some miraculous means.
Date: 27/03/2022 19:21:58
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1865808
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
> I can’t see any political solution right now that involves Putin both accepting defeat and remaining in power.
> Can you?
That was obvious a month ago.
What is still uncertain is what Putin considers victory.
And what America considers victory.
And what the Ukraine considers victory.
Date: 27/03/2022 19:29:55
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1865811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Have you seen this yet? Reposted from facebook.
A Ukraine SU-27 fighter returning to base with a road sign stuck to its jet intake

Date: 27/03/2022 19:46:19
From: dv
ID: 1865818
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Reports that the Ukrainians have regained control on the ground of Kharkiv and Sumy.
Date: 27/03/2022 19:50:57
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1865819
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Let’s talk about Rule 303 Belorussian style….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6A0gnUc6yo
Date: 27/03/2022 20:33:30
From: esselte
ID: 1865833
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Have you seen this yet? Reposted from facebook.
A Ukraine SU-27 fighter returning to base with a road sign stuck to its jet intake

Taken on Aug. 27, 2020 the curious video in this post features which was published by numerous witnesses on social media, a Ukrainian Air Force Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker fighter jet landing on what is known as Highway M06, a Ukrainian international highway connecting Kyiv to the Hungarian border near Chop.
According to Defence Blog, the fighter jet miscalculated the landing point and almost landed on the head of people and police cars. The Su-27 fighter also knocked down a road sign during landing, which could lead to a fatal crash.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/video-shows-ukrainian-su-27-hitting-road-sign-during-highway-landing-exercise/
Date: 27/03/2022 20:37:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1865836
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
The Su-27 fighter also knocked down a road sign during landing, which could lead to a fatal crash.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/video-shows-ukrainian-su-27-hitting-road-sign-during-highway-landing-exercise/
Yes.
Get that sucked into your turbofan, and ka-booms are likely to ensue quite quickly.
Date: 27/03/2022 21:09:35
From: dv
ID: 1865841
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The decision of the State Duma to indict and the decision of the Federation Council to remove the President from office must be accepted by two thirds of the respective chambers (300 and 114 votes respectively). The initiative to vote on indictment must be supported by no fewer than one third (150) of deputies of the State Duma and the conclusion of a special Commission formed by the State Duma. The decision of the Federation Council on removal from office of the President of the Russian Federation must be accepted by vote no later than three months after the bringing of charges by the State Duma against the President. If within this period the Federation Council does not vote for removal, charges against the President shall be considered rejected.
——
Not expecting it will come to it but there it is, for future reference
Date: 27/03/2022 21:40:34
From: dv
ID: 1865856
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://liveuamap.com/
I do keep a bit of an eye on this but I suppose it just has the same sources as anyone else: satellite imagery, live reports from the ground. Does show that over the past few days the Russians have retreated towards the NE border and have also given up on an Eastern flank to Kiev (?) while still maintaining a presence to the West of Kiev. Also appears to show Mariupol as contested, with a good chunk of the city under the control of Ukraine.
Date: 27/03/2022 21:50:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865867
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://liveuamap.com/
I do keep a bit of an eye on this but I suppose it just has the same sources as anyone else: satellite imagery, live reports from the ground. Does show that over the past few days the Russians have retreated towards the NE border and have also given up on an Eastern flank to Kiev (?) while still maintaining a presence to the West of Kiev. Also appears to show Mariupol as contested, with a good chunk of the city under the control of Ukraine.
Ukrainian counterattacks: The success of Ukrainian forces around Kharkiv has been mirrored further north, near the city of Sumy, where Ukrainian troops have liberated a number of settlements, according to videos geolocated and verified by CNN. A separate counterattack in the south also led to the liberation of two villages from Russian forces northwest of Mariupol, according to the Zaporizhzhia regional military administration. And Ukrainian counterattacks north and west of the capital appeared to have made some headway earlier this week, with Ukrainian forces restoring control of the town of Makariv, some 40 miles west of Kyiv.
CNN
Date: 27/03/2022 22:08:23
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1865896
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 27/03/2022 22:15:47
From: esselte
ID: 1865901
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ChrispenEvan said:

And Yemen.
Date: 27/03/2022 22:19:09
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1865903
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
ChrispenEvan said:

Attention-seeking politician trivialising a horrific situation for the sake of vacuous virtue signalling: tick.
Date: 27/03/2022 22:22:58
From: esselte
ID: 1865910
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Attention-seeking politician trivialising a horrific situation for the sake of vacuous virtue signalling: tick.
The Gaza Strip is about 5-10 years away from being “holocausted” by Israel.
Date: 27/03/2022 22:24:18
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1865913
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
Bubblecar said:
Attention-seeking politician trivialising a horrific situation for the sake of vacuous virtue signalling: tick.
The Gaza Strip is about 5-10 years away from being “holocausted” by Israel.
Israel plans to gas 2 million people?
Date: 27/03/2022 22:30:42
From: esselte
ID: 1865919
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
esselte said:
Bubblecar said:
Attention-seeking politician trivialising a horrific situation for the sake of vacuous virtue signalling: tick.
The Gaza Strip is about 5-10 years away from being “holocausted” by Israel.
Israel plans to gas 2 million people?
Starvation is the more likely route, but “holodomored” just doesn’t have the same kick when talking about a psychotic Jewish state.
Date: 27/03/2022 23:28:13
From: dv
ID: 1865932
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine

Blue ticks so you know it is real
Date: 27/03/2022 23:35:02
From: sibeen
ID: 1865934
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Blue ticks so you know it is real
Hehehe
Date: 28/03/2022 06:55:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865978
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/03/2022 07:03:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865979
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/03/2022 07:44:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865985
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Have you seen this yet? Reposted from facebook.
A Ukraine SU-27 fighter returning to base with a road sign stuck to its jet intake

Low flying or is that what Ukranians are throwing at them?
Date: 28/03/2022 07:46:43
From: roughbarked
ID: 1865986
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
esselte said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have you seen this yet? Reposted from facebook.
A Ukraine SU-27 fighter returning to base with a road sign stuck to its jet intake

Taken on Aug. 27, 2020 the curious video in this post features which was published by numerous witnesses on social media, a Ukrainian Air Force Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker fighter jet landing on what is known as Highway M06, a Ukrainian international highway connecting Kyiv to the Hungarian border near Chop.
According to Defence Blog, the fighter jet miscalculated the landing point and almost landed on the head of people and police cars. The Su-27 fighter also knocked down a road sign during landing, which could lead to a fatal crash.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/video-shows-ukrainian-su-27-hitting-road-sign-during-highway-landing-exercise/
ah.
Date: 28/03/2022 08:04:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865988
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have you seen this yet? Reposted from facebook.
A Ukraine SU-27 fighter returning to base with a road sign stuck to its jet intake

Low flying or is that what Ukranians are throwing at them?
Low flying by the look of it.
Date: 28/03/2022 08:06:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865989
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
roughbarked said:
esselte said:
mollwollfumble said:
Have you seen this yet? Reposted from facebook.
A Ukraine SU-27 fighter returning to base with a road sign stuck to its jet intake

Taken on Aug. 27, 2020 the curious video in this post features which was published by numerous witnesses on social media, a Ukrainian Air Force Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker fighter jet landing on what is known as Highway M06, a Ukrainian international highway connecting Kyiv to the Hungarian border near Chop.
According to Defence Blog, the fighter jet miscalculated the landing point and almost landed on the head of people and police cars. The Su-27 fighter also knocked down a road sign during landing, which could lead to a fatal crash.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/video-shows-ukrainian-su-27-hitting-road-sign-during-highway-landing-exercise/
ah.
Lucky
Date: 28/03/2022 08:49:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1865992
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 28/03/2022 10:47:42
From: dv
ID: 1866024
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine promises “immediate investigation” after video surfaces of soldiers shooting Russian prisoners
From CNN’s Tim Lister, Celine Alkhaldi, Katerina Krebs and Josh Pennington
Video has surfaced showing what appear to be Ukrainian soldiers shooting men who are apparently Russian prisoners in the knees during an operation in the Kharkiv region.
On the almost six-minute-long video, the Ukrainian soldiers are heard saying they have captured a Russian reconnaissance group operating from Olkhovka, a settlement in Kharkiv roughly 20 miles from the Russian border.
Asked about the video, a senior presidential advisor, Oleksiy Arestovych, said in an interview posted on YouTube Sunday: “The government is taking this very seriously, and there will be an immediate investigation. We are a European army, and we do not mock our prisoners. If this turns out to be real, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior.”
In a separate briefing, Arestovych said, “We treat prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention, whatever your personal emotional motives.”
Date: 28/03/2022 11:00:42
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866028
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukraine promises “immediate investigation” after video surfaces of soldiers shooting Russian prisoners
From CNN’s Tim Lister, Celine Alkhaldi, Katerina Krebs and Josh Pennington
Video has surfaced showing what appear to be Ukrainian soldiers shooting men who are apparently Russian prisoners in the knees during an operation in the Kharkiv region.
On the almost six-minute-long video, the Ukrainian soldiers are heard saying they have captured a Russian reconnaissance group operating from Olkhovka, a settlement in Kharkiv roughly 20 miles from the Russian border.
Asked about the video, a senior presidential advisor, Oleksiy Arestovych, said in an interview posted on YouTube Sunday: “The government is taking this very seriously, and there will be an immediate investigation. We are a European army, and we do not mock our prisoners. If this turns out to be real, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior.”
In a separate briefing, Arestovych said, “We treat prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention, whatever your personal emotional motives.”
There’s definitely some abuse going on which they need to clamp down on pronto.
There’s one video where the Russian (or separatist) prisoners are forced to sing the Ukrainian national anthem.
Unacceptable mistreatment and it amounts to doing the enemy’s propaganda work for them.
Date: 28/03/2022 11:14:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1866039
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Ukraine promises “immediate investigation” after video surfaces of soldiers shooting Russian prisoners
From CNN’s Tim Lister, Celine Alkhaldi, Katerina Krebs and Josh Pennington
Video has surfaced showing what appear to be Ukrainian soldiers shooting men who are apparently Russian prisoners in the knees during an operation in the Kharkiv region.
I’ve seen that video, there was a reasonable degree of bullshit going on there. Possibly paying up for the camera. And the bloke did shoot the three of them, which was a purely arsehole act.
There was another post elsewhere by someone who said that he’d ‘had dark thoughts for a long time’. He claimed that he’d joined the Ukrainian forces, and shot three Russian prisoners as they emerged from a vehicle, and felt nothing at all about it. He wondered if he should kill himself.
Coincidence, or what?
So, maybe it was this deranged psycho, and not representative of the people in that unit (if it was him, i hope he does shoot himself).
Or else it may have been someone acting the tough guy for the camera. Some people can’t resist it.
Date: 28/03/2022 11:18:40
From: Cymek
ID: 1866040
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Ukraine promises “immediate investigation” after video surfaces of soldiers shooting Russian prisoners
From CNN’s Tim Lister, Celine Alkhaldi, Katerina Krebs and Josh Pennington
Video has surfaced showing what appear to be Ukrainian soldiers shooting men who are apparently Russian prisoners in the knees during an operation in the Kharkiv region.
I’ve seen that video, there was a reasonable degree of bullshit going on there. Possibly paying up for the camera. And the bloke did shoot the three of them, which was a purely arsehole act.
There was another post elsewhere by someone who said that he’d ‘had dark thoughts for a long time’. He claimed that he’d joined the Ukrainian forces, and shot three Russian prisoners as they emerged from a vehicle, and felt nothing at all about it. He wondered if he should kill himself.
Coincidence, or what?
So, maybe it was this deranged psycho, and not representative of the people in that unit (if it was him, i hope he does shoot himself).
Or else it may have been someone acting the tough guy for the camera. Some people can’t resist it.
War especially as the victims of a brutal invasion allows the dark passenger to take control of some people
Date: 28/03/2022 11:25:58
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1866051
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Ukraine promises “immediate investigation” after video surfaces of soldiers shooting Russian prisoners
From CNN’s Tim Lister, Celine Alkhaldi, Katerina Krebs and Josh Pennington
Video has surfaced showing what appear to be Ukrainian soldiers shooting men who are apparently Russian prisoners in the knees during an operation in the Kharkiv region.
I’ve seen that video, there was a reasonable degree of bullshit going on there. Possibly paying up for the camera. And the bloke did shoot the three of them, which was a purely arsehole act.
There was another post elsewhere by someone who said that he’d ‘had dark thoughts for a long time’. He claimed that he’d joined the Ukrainian forces, and shot three Russian prisoners as they emerged from a vehicle, and felt nothing at all about it. He wondered if he should kill himself.
Coincidence, or what?
So, maybe it was this deranged psycho, and not representative of the people in that unit (if it was him, i hope he does shoot himself).
Or else it may have been someone acting the tough guy for the camera. Some people can’t resist it.
The Ukrainians are being held to a very high moral standard by the rest of the world but in the end, war is war… there are arseholes on both sides.
Date: 28/03/2022 11:33:21
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866053
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
shrug if Labor senators bully each other they’re acting as individuals, only Corruption have a cultural ideological institutional bullying problem
Date: 28/03/2022 11:38:11
From: Cymek
ID: 1866055
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
shrug if Labor senators bully each other they’re acting as individuals, only Corruption have a cultural ideological institutional bullying problem
I imagine Labor has a fair number of bullies, behaviour the public service reckons it doesn’t tolerate.
Its ironic or perhaps not that these people represent us but acts in a disrespectful manner.
Date: 28/03/2022 11:38:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1866056
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
The Ukrainians are being held to a very high moral standard by the rest of the world but in the end, war is war… there are arseholes on both sides.
Some of us may have been party to some things which we’ll will take with us to our graves.
If stuff like that is likely to happen, then Rule 1 is always ‘no cameras’.
Date: 28/03/2022 11:41:28
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1866058
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
shrug if Labor senators bully each other they’re acting as individuals, only Corruption have a cultural ideological institutional bullying problem
I imagine Labor has a fair number of bullies, behaviour the public service reckons it doesn’t tolerate.
Its ironic or perhaps not that these people represent us but acts in a disrespectful manner.
I think pollies are broadly representative of the people who elect them with all the good and bad that entails.
Date: 28/03/2022 11:45:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1866059
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
shrug if Labor senators bully each other they’re acting as individuals, only Corruption have a cultural ideological institutional bullying problem
I imagine Labor has a fair number of bullies, behaviour the public service reckons it doesn’t tolerate.
Its ironic or perhaps not that these people represent us but acts in a disrespectful manner.
I think pollies are broadly representative of the people who elect them with all the good and bad that entails.
Likely I imagine, they do seem to come across as not particularly professional in the way they act though.
Date: 28/03/2022 11:48:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866061
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
also if there are racist hypocrites on both sides then that makes it OK sorry we mean they should be fully called out on it
Date: 28/03/2022 12:00:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1866064
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
also if there are racist hypocrites on both sides then that makes it OK sorry we mean they should be fully called out on it
I think so, seems today you aren’t allowed to call out people in a minority for acting badly as you are punching down when in actual fact as humans we should all not be allowed to get away with certain behaviour.
Date: 28/03/2022 12:09:56
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1866068
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
also if there are racist hypocrites on both sides then that makes it OK sorry we mean they should be fully called out on it
I think so, seems today you aren’t allowed to call out people in a minority for acting badly as you are punching down when in actual fact as humans we should all not be allowed to get away with certain behaviour.
Your white cisgender male grievance is showing.
only half TIC
Date: 28/03/2022 12:14:38
From: Cymek
ID: 1866069
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
also if there are racist hypocrites on both sides then that makes it OK sorry we mean they should be fully called out on it
I think so, seems today you aren’t allowed to call out people in a minority for acting badly as you are punching down when in actual fact as humans we should all not be allowed to get away with certain behaviour.
Your white cisgender male grievance is showing.
only half TIC
I get that from my daughter
Am I wrong to think the above and have gotten old in my thinking
I have no problem with anyone’s choice about just about anything, but do kind of expect they don’t always use it as an excuse to act badly
OK fair enough you get some chances but it does seem you aren’t allowed to mention truth or fact as its repressive.
Date: 28/03/2022 12:23:49
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1866071
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
I think so, seems today you aren’t allowed to call out people in a minority for acting badly as you are punching down when in actual fact as humans we should all not be allowed to get away with certain behaviour.
Your white cisgender male grievance is showing.
only half TIC
I get that from my daughter
Am I wrong to think the above and have gotten old in my thinking
I have no problem with anyone’s choice about just about anything, but do kind of expect they don’t always use it as an excuse to act badly
OK fair enough you get some chances but it does seem you aren’t allowed to mention truth or fact as its repressive.
It’s wrong to be more offended that some people get away with some things because of their minority status than the institutional racism, sexism etc in the first place. Honestly white hetersexual males saying ‘life isn’t fair’ is hilarious.
Date: 28/03/2022 12:34:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1866073
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Your white cisgender male grievance is showing.
only half TIC
I get that from my daughter
Am I wrong to think the above and have gotten old in my thinking
I have no problem with anyone’s choice about just about anything, but do kind of expect they don’t always use it as an excuse to act badly
OK fair enough you get some chances but it does seem you aren’t allowed to mention truth or fact as its repressive.
It’s wrong to be more offended that some people get away with some things because of their minority status than the institutional racism, sexism etc in the first place. Honestly white hetersexual males saying ‘life isn’t fair’ is hilarious.
I’m not like that but do wonder if allowing behaviour excuse is almost saying your “insert minority group” and we don’t expect any better (not me but authority thinking that)
Can it actually be a detriment, you don’t punish people as you don’t want to be considered racist but seemingly are saying the victim also of that same ethnic group isn’t worthy of the same protection.
Is culture an excuse to act in certain ways is what I am wondering, a number of cultures have child brides for example, I mean c’mon that’s not right no matter what.
Western culture had and still does excuse white men for acting like pricks and that’s not right either.
Date: 28/03/2022 12:55:05
From: Arts
ID: 1866085
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
I get that from my daughter
Am I wrong to think the above and have gotten old in my thinking
I have no problem with anyone’s choice about just about anything, but do kind of expect they don’t always use it as an excuse to act badly
OK fair enough you get some chances but it does seem you aren’t allowed to mention truth or fact as its repressive.
It’s wrong to be more offended that some people get away with some things because of their minority status than the institutional racism, sexism etc in the first place. Honestly white hetersexual males saying ‘life isn’t fair’ is hilarious.
I’m not like that but do wonder if allowing behaviour excuse is almost saying your “insert minority group” and we don’t expect any better (not me but authority thinking that)
Can it actually be a detriment, you don’t punish people as you don’t want to be considered racist but seemingly are saying the victim also of that same ethnic group isn’t worthy of the same protection.
Is culture an excuse to act in certain ways is what I am wondering, a number of cultures have child brides for example, I mean c’mon that’s not right no matter what.
Western culture had and still does excuse white men for acting like pricks and that’s not right either.
it’s not a cultural exemption, it’s a consideration for the mitigating factors that led to the negative behaviour. If one of those mitigating factors is social factors brought about by systemic and ongoing labelling then that’s as valid as factors of biological and mental incapacities.
We do not allow for child bride, but the cultures that do have the legal backing – you cannot confuse moral outrage with legal rights and responsibilities.. however even if other cultures allow for these behaviours, in Australia it remains illegal and is prosecuted as such (there are cases of men here being charged with crimes they incite in foreign countries – specifically honour killing crimes)
Date: 28/03/2022 13:26:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866096
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
US President Joe Biden has clarified that the United States does not have a policy of regime change in Russia, after his declaration that Russian President Vladimir Putin “cannot remain in power”.
Germany’s Chancellor says regime change is not one of NATO’s goals
But Republicans have hit out at the latest in a series of missteps by Joe Biden
Date: 28/03/2022 13:29:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1866099
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
US President Joe Biden has clarified that the United States does not have a policy of regime change in Russia, after his declaration that Russian President Vladimir Putin “cannot remain in power”.
Germany’s Chancellor says regime change is not one of NATO’s goals
But Republicans have hit out at the latest in a series of missteps by Joe Biden
Sounds like lost his shit and said exactly what he was thinking
Date: 28/03/2022 14:01:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1866105
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
US President Joe Biden has clarified that the United States does not have a policy of regime change in Russia, after his declaration that Russian President Vladimir Putin “cannot remain in power”.
Germany’s Chancellor says regime change is not one of NATO’s goals
But Republicans have hit out at the latest in a series of missteps by Joe Biden
Sounds like lost his shit and said exactly what he was thinking
There’s a difference between him and Trump:
Biden says what he’s thinking.
Trump said plenty, but there was never any evidence of thinking being involved,
Date: 28/03/2022 14:06:30
From: Cymek
ID: 1866108
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
SCIENCE said:
US President Joe Biden has clarified that the United States does not have a policy of regime change in Russia, after his declaration that Russian President Vladimir Putin “cannot remain in power”.
Germany’s Chancellor says regime change is not one of NATO’s goals
But Republicans have hit out at the latest in a series of missteps by Joe Biden
Sounds like lost his shit and said exactly what he was thinking
There’s a difference between him and Trump:
Biden says what he’s thinking.
Trump said plenty, but there was never any evidence of thinking being involved,
True, Russia or Putin in particular also latches onto anything to promote its propaganda nonsense, doublethink type stuff
Date: 28/03/2022 14:24:32
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1866117
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
I imagine Labor has a fair number of bullies, behaviour the public service reckons it doesn’t tolerate.
Its ironic or perhaps not that these people represent us but acts in a disrespectful manner.
I think pollies are broadly representative of the people who elect them with all the good and bad that entails.
Likely I imagine, they do seem to come across as not particularly professional in the way they act though.
more often than not the rough and tumble of politics is far worse on your own side then it is against the other.. but that said, what is considered professional in the corporate world and what has been normalised in political life are two very different things.
Date: 28/03/2022 14:25:48
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1866119
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Cymek said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Your white cisgender male grievance is showing.
only half TIC
I get that from my daughter
Am I wrong to think the above and have gotten old in my thinking
I have no problem with anyone’s choice about just about anything, but do kind of expect they don’t always use it as an excuse to act badly
OK fair enough you get some chances but it does seem you aren’t allowed to mention truth or fact as its repressive.
It’s wrong to be more offended that some people get away with some things because of their minority status than the institutional racism, sexism etc in the first place. Honestly white hetersexual males saying ‘life isn’t fair’ is hilarious.
^this
Date: 28/03/2022 17:06:07
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1866160
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
As I read about the war between Persia and Greece, I can’t help but be struck by how we know about 100 times as much of the Persian invasion of Greece in 480 BC as we do about the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 AD.
We know the names of all of the generals involved on both sides, the places they came from, their parents, and in many cases the names of their wives or children. We know the motivation of each general, whether it be rage, fear, ambition, booty or cravenness. We know how many troops each commanded and their presence or absence in every battle. We know the detailed strategy of each battle from both sides, how well the troops of each general fought, how many of each troop died. We have a rough idea of the armament, battle experience, motivation and level of bravery and cowardice of the troops under each general in each battle.
For sea battles we know how many ships were involved on each side, the sizes of the ships, their strategies, how well the individual naval commanders fought.
We know the names of all messengers who transferred messages between the sides, and what happened to them, and how those messages changed or didn’t change the course of the war. We know of many, but not all, cases where forward scouts reported facts that changed the military strategy. We know the names of turncoats who secretly entered the enemy camp to inform against their own side (as an aside, Alexander of Macedon, later to be called Alexander the Great, was one of those). We know the name of a ship commander who slipped through a naval blockade unseen.
Even more than all that, we know of most if not every occasion when the generals disagreed with each other, and on which of those occasions that led to a reconciliation and which to a split in forces. On both sides of the war.
In the Persian invasion of Greece we know exactly when the leader of the Persian forces turned and ran to save his own life, and how he covered up the desertion. You will have heard of “the wooden horse of Troy”, that probably never happened, but we know of frauds of equal magnitude. In one case a peace agreement was signed and held on condition that it would last as long as the earth under their feet, but the earth beneath the meeting place had been dug out the previous night and the trench covered over, the fraudsters took advantage of this within 24 hours and killed every one of the enemy.
For the Russia-Ukraine situation we know SFA.
Date: 28/03/2022 17:09:40
From: furious
ID: 1866162
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
As I read about the war between Persia and Greece, I can’t help but be struck by how we know about 100 times as much of the Persian invasion of Greece in 480 BC as we do about the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 AD.
We know the names of all of the generals involved on both sides, the places they came from, their parents, and in many cases the names of their wives or children. We know the motivation of each general, whether it be rage, fear, ambition, booty or cravenness. We know how many troops each commanded and their presence or absence in every battle. We know the detailed strategy of each battle from both sides, how well the troops of each general fought, how many of each troop died. We have a rough idea of the armament, battle experience, motivation and level of bravery and cowardice of the troops under each general in each battle.
For sea battles we know how many ships were involved on each side, the sizes of the ships, their strategies, how well the individual naval commanders fought.
We know the names of all messengers who transferred messages between the sides, and what happened to them, and how those messages changed or didn’t change the course of the war. We know of many, but not all, cases where forward scouts reported facts that changed the military strategy. We know the names of turncoats who secretly entered the enemy camp to inform against their own side (as an aside, Alexander of Macedon, later to be called Alexander the Great, was one of those). We know the name of a ship commander who slipped through a naval blockade unseen.
Even more than all that, we know of most if not every occasion when the generals disagreed with each other, and on which of those occasions that led to a reconciliation and which to a split in forces. On both sides of the war.
In the Persian invasion of Greece we know exactly when the leader of the Persian forces turned and ran to save his own life, and how he covered up the desertion. You will have heard of “the wooden horse of Troy”, that probably never happened, but we know of frauds of equal magnitude. In one case a peace agreement was signed and held on condition that it would last as long as the earth under their feet, but the earth beneath the meeting place had been dug out the previous night and the trench covered over, the fraudsters took advantage of this within 24 hours and killed every one of the enemy.
For the Russia-Ukraine situation we know SFA.
Yeah, but, that was 2500 years ago. This one’s only a month old. Give it time…
Date: 28/03/2022 17:15:23
From: Cymek
ID: 1866164
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
furious said:
mollwollfumble said:
As I read about the war between Persia and Greece, I can’t help but be struck by how we know about 100 times as much of the Persian invasion of Greece in 480 BC as we do about the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 AD.
We know the names of all of the generals involved on both sides, the places they came from, their parents, and in many cases the names of their wives or children. We know the motivation of each general, whether it be rage, fear, ambition, booty or cravenness. We know how many troops each commanded and their presence or absence in every battle. We know the detailed strategy of each battle from both sides, how well the troops of each general fought, how many of each troop died. We have a rough idea of the armament, battle experience, motivation and level of bravery and cowardice of the troops under each general in each battle.
For sea battles we know how many ships were involved on each side, the sizes of the ships, their strategies, how well the individual naval commanders fought.
We know the names of all messengers who transferred messages between the sides, and what happened to them, and how those messages changed or didn’t change the course of the war. We know of many, but not all, cases where forward scouts reported facts that changed the military strategy. We know the names of turncoats who secretly entered the enemy camp to inform against their own side (as an aside, Alexander of Macedon, later to be called Alexander the Great, was one of those). We know the name of a ship commander who slipped through a naval blockade unseen.
Even more than all that, we know of most if not every occasion when the generals disagreed with each other, and on which of those occasions that led to a reconciliation and which to a split in forces. On both sides of the war.
In the Persian invasion of Greece we know exactly when the leader of the Persian forces turned and ran to save his own life, and how he covered up the desertion. You will have heard of “the wooden horse of Troy”, that probably never happened, but we know of frauds of equal magnitude. In one case a peace agreement was signed and held on condition that it would last as long as the earth under their feet, but the earth beneath the meeting place had been dug out the previous night and the trench covered over, the fraudsters took advantage of this within 24 hours and killed every one of the enemy.
For the Russia-Ukraine situation we know SFA.
Yeah, but, that was 2500 years ago. This one’s only a month old. Give it time…
Not a lot would be public record to the wider world, Russia is also sowing a disinformation war.
Hard also to prosecute war crimes if no names are known apart from a few high ranking soldiers whom seem to have been killed
Date: 28/03/2022 18:52:12
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1866210
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Making of Vladimir Putin
Tracing Putin’s 22-year slide from statesman to tyrant.
President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia during a New York Times interview in 2003.Credit…James Hill for The New York Times
By Roger Cohen
Published March 26, 2022
PARIS — Speaking in what he called “the language of Goethe, Schiller and Kant,” picked up during his time as a K.G.B. officer in Dresden, President Vladimir V. Putin addressed the German Parliament on Sept. 25, 2001. “Russia is a friendly European nation,” he declared. “Stable peace on the continent is a paramount goal for our nation.”
The Russian leader, elected the previous year at the age of 47 after a meteoric rise from obscurity, went on to describe “democratic rights and freedoms” as the “key goal of Russia’s domestic policy.” Members of the Bundestag gave a standing ovation, moved by the reconciliation Mr. Putin seemed to embody in a city, Berlin, that long symbolized division between the West and the totalitarian Soviet world.
Norbert Röttgen, a center-right representative who headed the Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee for several years, was among those who rose to their feet. “Putin captured us,” he said. “The voice was quite soft, in German, a voice that tempts you to believe what is said to you. We had some reason to think there was a viable perspective of togetherness.”
Today, all togetherness shredded, Ukraine burns, bludgeoned by the invading army Mr. Putin sent to prove his conviction that Ukrainian nationhood is a myth. More than 3.7 million Ukrainians are refugees; the dead mount up in a month-old war; and that purring voice of Mr. Putin has morphed into the angry rant of a hunched man dismissing as “scum and traitors” any Russian who resists the violence of his tightening dictatorship.
His opponents, a “fifth column” manipulated by the West, will meet an ugly fate, Mr. Putin vowed this month, grimacing as his planned blitzkrieg in Ukraine stalled. True Russians, he said, would “spit them out like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouths” and so achieve “a necessary self-purification of society.”
This was less the language of Kant than of fascist nationalist exaltation laced with Mr. Putin’s hardscrabble, brawling St. Petersburg youth.
Between these voices of reason and incitation, between these two seemingly different men, lie 22 years of power and five American presidents. As China rose, as America fought and lost its forever wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as technology networked the world, a Russian enigma took form in the Kremlin.
Did the United States and its allies, through excess of optimism or naïveté, simply get Mr. Putin wrong from the outset? Or was he transformed over time into the revanchist warmonger of today, whether because of perceived Western provocation, gathering grievance, or the giddying intoxication of prolonged and — since Covid-19 — increasingly isolated rule?
Mr. Putin is an enigma, but he is also the most public of figures. Seen from the perspective of his reckless gamble in Ukraine, a picture emerges of a man who seized on almost every move by the West as a slight against Russia — and perhaps also himself. As the grievances mounted, piece by piece, year by year, the distinction blurred. In effect, he became the state, he merged with Russia, their fates fused in an increasingly Messianic vision of restored imperial glory.
From the Ashes of Empire
“The temptation of the West for Putin was, I think, chiefly that he saw it as instrumental to building a great Russia,” said Condoleezza Rice, the former secretary of state who met several times with Mr. Putin during the first phase of his rule. “He was always obsessed with the 25 million Russians trapped outside Mother Russia by the breakup of the Soviet Union. Again and again he raised this. That is why, for him, the end of the Soviet empire was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century.”
But if irredentist resentment lurked, alongside a Soviet spy’s suspicion of the United States, Mr. Putin had other initial priorities. He was a patriotic servant of the state. The post-communist Russia of the 1990s, led by Boris N. Yeltsin, the country’s first freely elected leader, had sundered.
In 1993, Mr. Yeltsin ordered the Parliament shelled to put down an insurgency; 147 people were killed. The West had to provide Russia with humanitarian aid, so dire was its economic collapse, so pervasive its extreme poverty, as large swaths of industry were sold off for a song to an emergent class of oligarchs. All this, to Mr. Putin, represented mayhem. It was humiliation.
“He hated what happened to Russia, hated the idea the West had to help it,” said Christoph Heusgen, the chief diplomatic adviser to former Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany between 2005 and 2017. Mr. Putin’s first political manifesto for the 2000 presidential campaign was all about reversing Western efforts to transfer power from the state to the marketplace. “For Russians,” he wrote, “a strong state is not an anomaly to fight against.” Quite the contrary, “it is the source and guarantor of order, the initiator and the main driving force of any change.”
But Mr. Putin was no Marxist, even if he reinstated the Stalin-era national anthem. He had seen the disaster of a centralized planned economy, both in Russia and East Germany, where he served as a K.G.B. agent between 1985 and 1990.
The new president would work with the oligarchs created by chaotic, free-market, crony capitalism — so long as they showed absolute fealty. Failing that, they would be expunged. If this was democracy, it was “sovereign democracy,” a phrase embraced by Mr. Putin’s top political strategists, stress on the first word.
Marked, to some degree, by his home city of St. Petersburg, built by Peter the Great in the early 18th century as a “window to Europe,” and by his initial political experience there from 1991 working in the mayor’s office to attract foreign investment, Mr. Putin does appear to have been guardedly open to the West early in his rule.
He mentioned the possibility of Russian membership of NATO to President Bill Clinton in 2000, an idea that never went anywhere. He maintained a Russian partnership agreement signed with the European Union in 1994. A NATO-Russia Council was established in 2002. Petersburg man vied with Homo Sovieticus.
This was a delicate balancing act, for which the disciplined Mr. Putin was prepared. “You should never lose control,” he told the American movie director Oliver Stone in “The Putin Interviews,” a 2017 documentary. He once described himself as “an expert in human relations.” German lawmakers were not alone in being seduced by this man of impassive features and implacable intent, honed as an intelligence operative.
“You must understand, he is from the K.G.B., lying is his profession, it is not a sin,” said Sylvie Bermann, the French ambassador in Moscow from 2017 to 2020. “He is like a mirror, adapting to what he sees, in the way he was trained.”
A few months before the Bundestag speech, Mr. Putin famously won over President George W. Bush, who, after their first meeting in June 2001, said he had looked into the Russian president’s eyes, gotten “a sense of his soul” and found him “very straightforward and trustworthy.” Mr. Yeltsin, similarly swayed, anointed Mr. Putin as his successor just three years after he arrived in Moscow in 1996.
“Putin orients himself very precisely to a person,” Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky, Russia’s richest man before he served a decade in a Siberian penal colony and had his company forcibly broken up, told me in an interview in 2016 in Washington. “If he wants you to like him, you will like him.”
The previous time I had seen Mr. Khodorkovsky, in Moscow in October 2003, was just days before his arrest by armed agents on embezzlement charges. He had been talking to me then about his bold political ambitions — a lèse-majesté unacceptable to Mr. Putin.
An Authoritarian’s Rise
The wooded presidential estate outside Moscow was comfortable but not ornate. In 2003, Mr. Putin’s personal tastes did not yet run to palatial grandiosity. Security guards lounged around, gawking at TVs showing fashion models on the runways of Milan and Paris.
Mr. Putin, as he likes to do, kept us waiting for many hours. It seemed a small demonstration of one-upmanship, a minor incivility he would inflict even on Ms. Rice, similar to bringing his dog into a meeting with Ms. Merkel in 2007 when he knew she was scared of dogs.
“I understand why he has to do this,” Ms. Merkel said. “To prove he’s a man.”
When the interview with three New York Times journalists at last began, Mr. Putin was cordial and focused, comfortable in his strong command of detail. “We firmly stand on the path of development of democracy and of a market economy,” he said, adding, “By their mentality and culture, the people of Russia are Europeans.”
He spoke of “good, close relations” with the Bush administration, despite the Iraq war, and said “the main principles of humanism — human rights, freedom of speech — remain fundamental for all countries.” The greatest lesson of his education, he said, was “respect for the law.”
At this time, Mr. Putin had already clamped down on independent media; prosecuted a brutal war in Chechnya involving the leveling of Grozny, its capital; and placed security officials — known as siloviki — front and center in his governance. Often, they were old St. Petersburg buddies, like Nikolai Patrushev, now the secretary of Mr. Putin’s security council. The first rule of an intelligence officer is suspicion.
When asked about his methods, the president bristled, suggesting America could not claim any moral high ground. “We have a proverb in Russia,” he said. “One should not criticize a mirror if you have a crooked face.”
The overriding impression was of a man divided behind his unflinching gaze. Michel Eltchaninoff, the French author of “Inside the Mind of Vladimir Putin,” said there was “a varnish of liberalism to his discourse in the early 2000s,” but the pull of restoring Russian imperial might, and so avenging Russia’s perceived relegation to what President Barack Obama would call “a regional power,” was always Mr. Putin’s deepest urge.
Born in 1952 in a city then called Leningrad, Mr. Putin grew up in the shadow of the Soviets’ war with Nazi Germany, known to Russians as the Great Patriotic War. His father was badly wounded, an older brother died during the brutal 872-day German siege of the city, and a grandfather had worked for Stalin as a cook. The immense sacrifices of the Red Army in defeating Nazism were not abstract but palpable within his modest family, as for many Russians of his generation. Mr. Putin learned young that, as he put it, “the weak get beat.”
“The West did not take sufficient account of the strength of Soviet myth, military sacrifice and revanchism in him,” Mr. Eltchaninoff, whose grandparents were all Russian, said. “He believes deeply that Russian man is prepared to sacrifice himself for an idea, whereas Western man likes success and comfort.”
Mr. Putin brought a measure of that comfort to Russia in the first eight years of his presidency. The economy galloped ahead, foreign investment poured in. “It was perhaps the happiest time in the country’s life, with a measure of prosperity and level of freedom never matched in Russian history,” said Alexander Gabuev, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Moscow Center.
Mr. Gabuev, who, like thousands of liberal Russians, has fled to Istanbul since the war in Ukraine began, added that “there was a lot of corruption and concentration of wealth, but also lots of boats rising. And remember, in the 1990s, everyone had been poor as a church mouse.” Now the middle class could vacation in Turkey or Vietnam.
The problem for Mr. Putin was that to diversify an economy, the rule of law helps. He had studied law at St. Petersburg University and claimed to respect it. In fact, power proved to be his lodestone. He held legal niceties in contempt. “Why would he share power when he could live off oil, gas, other natural resources, and enough redistribution to keep people happy?” Mr. Gabuev said.
Timothy Snyder, the prominent historian of fascism, put it this way: “Having toyed with an authoritarian rule-of-law state, he simply become the oligarch-in-chief and turned the state into the enforcer mechanism of his oligarchical clan.”
Still, the biggest country on earth, stretching across 11 time zones, needed more than economic recovery to stand tall once more. Mr. Putin had been formed in a Soviet world that held that Russia was not a great power unless it dominated its neighbors. Rumblings at the country’s doorstep challenged that doctrine.
In November 2003, the Rose Revolution in Georgia set that country firmly on a Western course. In 2004 — the year of NATO’s second post-Cold War expansion, which brought in Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia — massive street protests, known as the Orange Revolution, erupted in Ukraine. They, too, stemmed from a rejection of Moscow and the embrace of a Western future.
Mr. Putin’s turn from cooperation with the West to confrontation began. It would be slow but the general direction was set. Once, asked by Ms. Merkel what his greatest mistake had been, the Russian president replied: “To trust you.”
A Clash With the West
From 2004 onward, a distinct hardening of Mr. Putin’s Russia — what Ms. Rice, the former secretary of state, called “a crackdown where they were starting to spin these tales of vulnerability and democratic contagion” — became evident.
The president scrapped elections for regional governors in late 2004, turning them into Kremlin appointees. Russian TV increasingly looked like Soviet TV in its undiluted propaganda.
In 2006, Anna Politkovskaya, an investigative journalist critical of rights abuses in Chechnya, was murdered in Moscow on Mr. Putin’s birthday. Another Kremlin critic, Alexander Litvinenko, a former intelligence agent, who had dubbed Russia “a mafia state,” was killed in London, poisoned with a radioactive substance by Russian spies.
For Mr. Putin, NATO expansion into countries that had been part of the Soviet Union or its postwar East European imperium represented an American betrayal. But the threat of a successful Western democracy on his doorstep appears to have evolved into a more immediate perceived threat to his increasingly repressive system.
“Putin’s nightmare is not NATO, but democracy,” said Joschka Fischer, a former German foreign minister who met with Mr. Putin several times. “It’s the color revolutions, thousands of people on the streets of Kyiv. Once he embraced an imperial, military ideology as the foundation of Russia as a world power, he was unable to tolerate this.”
Although Mr. Putin has portrayed a West-leaning Ukraine as a threat to Russian security, it was more immediately a threat to Putin’s authoritarian system itself. Radek Sikorski, the former Polish foreign minister, said: “Putin is of course right that a democratic Ukraine integrated with Europe and successful is a mortal threat to Putinism. That, more than NATO membership, is the issue.”
The Russian president does not take well to mortal threats, real or imagined. If anyone had doubted Mr. Putin’s ruthlessness, they stood corrected by 2006. His loathing of weakness dictated a proclivity for violence. Yet Western democracies were slow to absorb this basic lesson.
They needed Russia, and not only for its oil and gas. The Russian president, who was the first to call President Bush after 9/11, was an important potential ally in what came to be called the Global War on Terror. It meshed with his own war in Chechnya and with a tendency to see himself as part of a civilizational battle on behalf of Christianity.
But Mr. Putin was far less comfortable with Mr. Bush’s “freedom agenda,” announced in his second inaugural of January 2005, a commitment to promote democracy across the world in pursuit of a neoconservative vision. In every stirring for liberty, Mr. Putin now saw the hidden hand of the United States. And why would Mr. Bush not include Russia in his ambitious program?
Arriving in Moscow as the U.S. ambassador in 2005, William Burns, now the C.I.A. director, sent a sober cable, all post-Cold War optimism dispelled. “Russia is too big, too proud, and too self-conscious of its own history to fit neatly into a ‘Europe whole and free,’” he wrote. As he relates in his memoir, “The Back Channel,” Mr. Burns added that Russian “interest in playing a distinctive Great Power role” would “sometimes cause significant problems.”
When François Hollande, the former French president, met Mr. Putin several years later, he was surprised to find him referring to Americans as “Yankees” — and in scathing terms. These Yankees had “humiliated us, put us in second position,” Mr. Putin told him. NATO was an organization “aggressive by its nature,” used by the United States to put Russia under pressure, even to stir democracy movements.
“He expressed himself in a cold and calculating way,” Mr. Hollande said. “He is a man who always wants to demonstrate a kind of implacable determination, but also in the form of seduction, almost gentleness. An agreeable tone alternates with brutal outbursts, which are thereby made more effective.”
The more assured he grew in his power, the more Mr. Putin appears to have reverted to the hostility toward the United States in which he was formed. The NATO bombing of Belgrade in 1999 during the Kosovo War, and the United States invasion of Iraq in 2003, had already given him a healthy distrust of American invocations of the United Nations Charter and international law. Convinced of the exceptionalism of Russia, its inevitable fate to be a great power, he could not abide American exceptionalism, the perception of America throwing its power around in the name of some unique destiny, an inherent mission to spread freedom in a world where the United States was the sole hegemon.
These grudges came to a head in Mr. Putin’s ferocious speech in 2007 to the Munich Security Conference. “One state and, of course, first and foremost the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way,” he declared to a shocked audience. A “unipolar world” had been imposed after the Cold War with “one center of authority, one center of force, one center of decision-making.”
The result was a world “in which there is one master, one sovereign, and at the end of the day this is pernicious.” More than pernicious, it was “extremely dangerous,” resulting “in the fact that nobody feels safe.”
The Threat of NATO Expansion
After the Munich speech, Germany still had hopes for Mr. Putin. Ms. Merkel, raised in East Germany, a Russian speaker, had formed a relationship with him. Mr. Putin put his two children in Moscow’s German school after his return from Dresden. He liked to quote from German poems. “There was an affinity,” said Mr. Heusgen, her top diplomatic adviser. “An understanding.”
Working with Mr. Putin could not mean dictating to him, however. “We deeply believed it would not be good to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO,” Mr. Heusgen said. “They would bring instability.” Article 10 of the NATO Treaty, as Mr. Heusgen noted, says any new member must be in a position to “contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area.” Just how the two contested countries would do that was unclear to Ms. Merkel.
The United States, however, with the Bush presidency in its last year, was in no mood to compromise. Mr. Bush wanted a “Membership Action Plan,” or MAP, for Ukraine and Georgia, a specific commitment to bringing the two countries into the alliance, to be announced at the April 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest. NATO expansion had ensured the security and freedom of 100 million Europeans liberated from the totalitarian Soviet imperium; it should not stop.
Mr. Burns, as ambassador, was opposed. In a then-classified message to Ms. Rice, he wrote: “Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests.”
Already, in February 2008, the United States and many of its allies had recognized the independence of Kosovo from Serbia, a unilateral declaration rejected as illegal by Russia and seen as an affront to a fellow Slav nation. Ms. Bermann, the former French ambassador to Moscow, recalled Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, warning her at the time: “Be careful, it’s a precedent, it will be used against you.”
France joined Germany in Bucharest in opposing the MAP for Georgia and Ukraine. “Germany wanted nothing,” Ms. Rice recalled. “It said you could not take in a country with a frozen conflict like Georgia” — an allusion to the tense standoff between Georgia and the breakaway, Russian-backed, self-declared republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
To which Mr. Sikorski, the Polish foreign minister, retorted: “You were a frozen conflict for 45 years!”
The compromise was messy. The NATO leaders’ declaration said that Ukraine and Georgia “will become members of NATO.” But it stopped short of endorsing an action plan that would make such membership possible. Ukraine and Georgia were left with an empty promise, consigned to drift indefinitely in a strategic no man’s land, while Russia was at once angered and offered a glimpse of a division it could later exploit.
“Today we look at the statement and think it was the worst of all worlds,” said Thomas Bagger, the departing senior diplomatic adviser to the German president.
Mr. Putin came to Bucharest and delivered what Ms. Rice described as an “emotional speech,” suggesting Ukraine was a made-up country, noting the presence of 17 million Russians there, and calling Kyiv the mother of all Russian cities — a claim that would develop into an obsession.
To Mr. Sikorski, Mr. Putin’s speech was not surprising. He had received a letter that year from Vladimir V. Zhirinovsky, a fierce Russian nationalist who was then the deputy speaker of the Duma, suggesting that Poland and Russia simply partition Ukraine. “I did not respond,” Mr. Sikorski said. “We are not in the business of changing borders.”
Still, for all the differences, Mr. Putin had not yet hardened into outright hostility. President Bush and Ms. Rice proceeded to Mr. Putin’s favored resort of Sochi on the Black Sea Coast.
Mr. Putin showed off the sites planned for the 2014 Winter Olympics. He introduced them to Dmitri A. Medvedev, his longtime associate who would become president in May, as part of a choreographed maneuver to respect Russian’s constitutional term limits but allow Mr. Putin to return to the Kremlin in 2012 after a spell as prime minister.
Three months later, a five-day war erupted in Georgia. Russia called it a “peace enforcement” operation. Having provoked an impetuous Georgian attack on its proxy forces in South Ossetia, Russia invaded Georgia. Its strategic goal was to neutralize any ambitions for Georgian NATO membership; this was largely achieved. Moscow recognized the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, integrating them into Russia.
Mr. Putin, in his deliberate manner, had drawn a first line in the sand, with no meaningful Western response.
Us Versus Them
On May 7, 2012, as a 30-gun salute echoed over Moscow and riot police officers in camouflage rounded up protesters, Mr. Putin returned to the Russian presidency. Bristling and increasingly convinced of Western perfidy and decadence, he was in many respects a changed man.
The outbreak of large street protests five months earlier, with marchers bearing signs that said “Putin is a thief,” had cemented his conviction that the United States was determined to bring a color revolution to Russia. The demonstrations erupted after parliamentary elections in December 2011 that were widely viewed as fraudulent by domestic and international observers. The unrest was eventually crushed.
Mr. Putin accused then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton of being the primary instigator. “She set the tone for some actors in our country and gave them a signal,” he said. Ms. Clinton retorted that, in line with America’s values, “we expressed concerns that we thought were well founded about the conduct of the elections.”
So much for the Obama administration’s attempts at a “reset” in relations with Russia over the four years that the milder Mr. Medvedev, who was always beholden to Mr. Putin, spent in office.
Still, the idea that Mr. Putin posed any serious threat to American interests was largely dismissed in a Washington focused on defeating Al Qaeda. After Gov. Mitt Romney said that the biggest geopolitical threat facing the United States was Russia, he was mocked by President Obama.
“The Cold War’s been over for 20 years,” Mr. Obama said by way of contemptuous instruction during a 2012 presidential debate.
Russia, under American pressure, had abstained in a 2011 United Nations Security Council vote for military intervention in Libya, which authorized “all necessary measures” to protect civilians. When this mission, in Mr. Putin’s perception, morphed into the pursuit of the overthrow of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, who was killed by Libyan forces, the Russian president was furious. This was yet further confirmation of America’s international lawlessness.
Something else was at work. “He was haunted by the brutal takeout of Qaddafi,” said Mark Medish, who was senior director for Russian, Ukrainian and Eurasian affairs at the National Security Council during the Clinton presidency. “I was told that he replayed the videos again and again.” The elimination of a dictator felt personal.
Michel Duclos, a former French ambassador to Syria and now a special adviser to the Institut Montaigne think tank in Paris, places Mr. Putin’s definitive “choice of repolarization” in 2012. China had risen, offering new strategic options. “He had become convinced that the West was in decline after the 2008 financial crisis,” Mr. Duclos said. “The way forward now was confrontation.”
In this clash, Mr. Putin had armed himself with cultural and religious reinforcements. He cast himself as the macho embodiment of conservative Orthodox Christian values against the West’s irreligious embrace of same-sex marriage, radical feminism, homosexuality, mass immigration and other manifestations of “decadence.
The United States and its allies, in Mr. Putin’s telling, were intent on globalizing these subversive values under cover of democracy promotion and human rights. Saint Russia would stand against this baleful homogenization. Putinism, as it was now fleshed out, stood against a godless and insinuating West. Moscow had an ideology once more. It was one of conservative resistance, and it appealed to rightist leaders across Europe and beyond.
It was also, it seems, a reflection of something more. When, in the Oliver Stone documentary, Mr. Putin is asked if he ever has “bad days,” his response is: “I am not a woman, so I don’t have bad days.” Pressed a little by the generally deferential Mr. Stone, the Russian president opines, “That’s just the nature of things.”
Later, Mr. Stone asks about gays and the military. “If you are taking a shower in a submarine with a man and you know he is gay, do you have a problem with that?” Mr. Putin replies: “Well, I prefer not to go to the shower with him. Why provoke him? But you know, I’m a judo master.”
This, apparently, was meant as a joke.
But Mr. Putin was not joking about his conservative challenge to Western culture. It allowed him to develop his own support in Europe among hard-right parties like the French National Rally, formerly the National Front, that received a loan from a Russian bank. Autocratic nationalism revived its appeal, challenging the democratic liberalism that the Russian leader would pronounce “obsolete” in 2019.
A number of fascist or nationalist writers and historians with mystical ideas of Russian destiny and fate, prominent among them Ivan Ilyin, increasingly influenced Mr. Putin’s thinking. Ilyin saw the Russian soldier as “the will, the force and the honor of the Russian state” and wrote, “My prayer is like a sword. And my sword is like a prayer.” Mr. Putin took to citing him frequently.
“By the time Putin returns to the Kremlin he has an ideology, a spiritual cover for his kleptocracy,” said Mr. Snyder, the historian. “Russia now extends however far its leader decides. It’s all about eternal Russia, a mash-up of the last 1,000 years. Ukraine is ours, always ours, because God says so, and never mind the facts.”
When Mr. Putin traveled to Kyiv in July 2013, on a visit to mark the 1,025th anniversary of the conversion to Christianity of Prince Vladimir of the Kyivan Rus, he vowed to protect “our common Fatherland, Great Rus.” Later he would have a statue of Vladimir erected in front of the Kremlin.
For Ukraine, however, such Russian “protection” had become little more than a thinly veiled threat, whatever the extensive cultural, linguistic and family ties between the two countries.
“Poland has been invaded many times by Russia,” Mr. Sikorski, the former Polish foreign minister, said. “But remember, Russia never invades. It just comes to the assistance of endangered Russian-speaking minorities.”
A Leader Emboldened
The 22-year arc of Mr. Putin’s exercise of power is in many ways a study of growing audacity. Intent at first at restoring order in Russia and gaining international respect — especially in the West — he became convinced that a Russia rich in oil revenue and new high-tech weaponry could strut the world, deploy military force and meet scant resistance.
“Power, for the Russians, is arms. It is not the economy,” said Ms. Bermann, the former French ambassador, who closely followed Mr. Putin’s steady militarization of Russian society during her time in Moscow. She was particularly struck by the grandiose video display of advanced nuclear and hypersonic weaponry presided over by the president in a March 2018 address to the nation.
“Nobody listened to us,” Mr. Putin proclaimed. “Listen to us now.” He also said, “Efforts to contain Russia have failed.”
If Mr. Putin was, as he now seemed to believe, the personification of Russia’s mystical great-power destiny, all constraints were off. “When I first met him you had to lean in a little to understand what he was saying,” said Ms. Rice, the former secretary of state. “I’ve seen Putin go from a little shy, to pretty shy, to arrogant, and now megalomaniacal.”
An important moment in this development appears to have come with Mr. Obama’s last-minute decision in 2013 not to bomb Syria after Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, crossed an American “red line” against using chemical weapons. Mr. Obama took the case for war to a reluctant Congress instead, and under the lingering American threat and pressure from Moscow, Mr. al-Assad agreed to the destruction of the weapons.
The hesitation appears to have left an impression on Mr. Putin. “It was decisive, I think,” said Mr. Hollande, the former French president, who had readied warplanes to take part in the planned military strike. “Decisive for American credibility, and that had consequences. After that, I believe, Mr. Putin considered Mr. Obama weak.”
Certainly, Mr. Putin rapidly ramped up his efforts to expand Russian power.
Ukraine, by ousting its Moscow-backed leader in a bloody popular uprising in February 2014, and so de facto rejecting Mr. Putin’s multibillion-dollar blandishments to join his Eurasian Union rather than pursue an association agreement with the European Union, committed the unpardonable. This, for Mr. Putin, was the devouring specter of color revolution made real. It was, he insisted, an American-backed “coup.”
Mr. Putin’s annexation of Crimea and orchestration of the military conflict in eastern Ukraine that created two Russian-backed breakaway regions followed.
Two decades earlier, in 1994, Russia had signed an agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum, under which Ukraine gave up its vast nuclear arsenal in exchange for a promise of respect for its sovereignty and existing borders. But Mr. Putin had no interest in that commitment.
Mr. Heusgen said a breaking point for Ms. Merkel came when she asked Mr. Putin about the “little green men” — masked Russian soldiers — who appeared in Crimea before the Russian annexation in March 2014. “I have nothing to do with them,” Mr. Putin responded, unconvincingly.
“He lied to her — lies, lies, lies,” Mr. Heusgen said. “From then on, she was much more skeptical about Mr. Putin.” She would tell Mr. Obama that the Russian leader was “living in another world.”
Later, when Mr. Putin ordered Russian forces into Syria and, in 2016, embarked on the ferocious bombardment of Aleppo, Ms. Merkel told him the bombing had to stop. But the Russian leader would have none of it.
“He said there were some Chechen fighters and terrorists there, and he did not want them back, and he would bomb the whole of Aleppo to get rid of them,” Mr. Heusgen said. “It was of an absolute brutality. I mean, how brutal can you get?”
Lies and brutality: The core methods of late Putin were clear enough. For anyone who was listening, Mr. Lavrov, the foreign minister, had made that evident at the 2015 Munich Security Conference.
In a speech as violent as Mr. Putin’s in 2007, Mr. Lavrov accused Ukrainians of engaging in an orgy of “nationalistic violence” characterized by ethnic purges directed against Jews and Russians. The annexation of Crimea occurred because a popular uprising demanded “the right of self-determination” under the United Nations Charter, he claimed.
The United States, in Mr. Lavrov’s account, was driven by an insatiable desire for global dominance. Europe, once the Cold War ended, should have built “the common European house” — a “free economic zone” from Lisbon to Vladivostok — rather than expand NATO eastward.
But not many people were listening. The United States and most of Europe — less so the states closest to Russia — glided on in the seldom-questioned belief that the Russian threat, while growing, was contained; that Mr. Putin was a rational man whose use of force involved serious cost-benefit analysis; and that European peace was assured. The oligarchs continued to make “Londongrad” their home; Britain’s Conservative Party was glad to take money from them. Prominent figures in Germany, France and Austria were happy to accept well-paid Russian sinecures. They included Gerhard Schröder, the former German chancellor, and François Fillon, the former French prime minister. Russian oil and gas poured into Europe.
Prominent intellectuals, including Hélène Carrère d’Encausse, the perpetual secretary of the Académie Française and a specialist in Russian history, defended Mr. Putin strongly, even in the run-up to the war in Ukraine. “The United States applied itself to humiliating Russia,” she told a French TV interviewer, suggesting the simultaneous dissolution of NATO and the Warsaw Pact would have better served the world.
As for former President Donald J. Trump, he never had a critical word for Mr. Putin, preferring to believe him rather than his own intelligence services on the issue of Russian meddling in the 2016 election.
“With hindsight, we should have started long ago what we now need to do in a rush,” Mr. Bagger, the senior German diplomat, said. “Strengthen our military and diversify energy supplies. Instead we went along and expanded resource flows from Russia. And we dragged along a hollowed-out army.”
He added: “We did not realize that Putin had spun himself into a historical mythology and was thinking in categories of a 1,000-year empire. You cannot deter someone like that with sanctions.”
The War in Ukraine
The unthinkable can happen. Russia’s war of choice in Ukraine is proof of that. Watching it unfold, Ms. Bermann told me she had been reminded of lines from “The Human Stain” by Philip Roth: “The danger with hatred is, once you start in on it, you get a hundred times more than you bargained for. Once you start, you can’t stop.”
In the isolation of Covid-19, apparently redoubled by the germaphobia that has led the Russian leader to impose what Mr. Bagger called “extraordinary arrangements” for anyone meeting him, all Mr. Putin’s obsessions about the 25 million Russians lost to their motherland at the breakup of the Soviet Union seem to have coagulated.
“Something happened,” said Ms. Bermann, who was greeted by a smiling Mr. Putin when she presented her credentials as ambassador in 2017. “He speaks with a new rage and fury, a kind of folly.”
Ms. Rice was similarly struck. “Something is definitely different,” she said. “He’s not in control of his emotions. Something is wrong.”
After President Emmanuel Macron of France met with Putin at opposite ends of a 20-foot table last month, he told journalists on his plane that he found him more stiff, isolated and ideologically unyielding than at their previous meeting in 2019. Mr. Macron’s aides described Mr. Putin as physically changed, his face puffy. “Paranoid” was the word chosen by the French president’s top diplomatic adviser to describe a speech by Mr. Putin just before the war.
That Ukraine got to Mr. Putin in some deeply disturbing way is evident in the 5,000-word tract on “The Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians” that he penned in his isolation last summer and had distributed to members of the armed forces. Marshaling arguments ranging back to the ninth century, he said that “Russia was robbed, indeed.” Ukraine was now home to “radicals and neo-Nazis” intent on effacing any trace of Russia.
“We will never allow our historical territories and people close to us living there to be used against Russia,” he wrote. “And to those who will undertake such an attempt, I would like to say that this way they will destroy their own country.”
His intent, in hindsight, was clear enough, many months before the invasion. It appeared so to Mr. Eltchaninoff, the French author. “The religion of war had installed itself,” he said. “Putin had replaced the real with a myth.”
But why now? The West, Mr. Putin had long since concluded, was weak, divided, decadent, given over to private consumption and promiscuity. Germany had a new leader, and France an imminent election. A partnership with China had been cemented. Poor intelligence persuaded him Russian troops would be greeted as liberators in wide swaths of eastern Ukraine, at least. Covid-19, Mr. Bagger said, “had given him a sense of urgency, that time was running out.”
Mr. Hollande, the former president, had a simpler explanation: “Putin was drunk on his success. In recent years, he has won enormously.” In Crimea, in Syria, in Belarus, in Africa, in Kazakhstan. “Putin tells himself, ‘I am advancing everywhere. Where am I in retreat? Nowhere!’”
That is no longer the case. In a single stroke, Mr. Putin has galvanized NATO, ended Swiss neutrality and German postwar pacifism, united an often fragmented European Union, hobbled the Russian economy for years to come, provoked a massive exodus of educated Russians and reinforced the very thing he denied had ever existed, in a way that will prove indelible: Ukrainian nationhood. He has been outmaneuvered by the agile and courageous Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, a man he mocked.
“He has undone on a coin-flip the achievements of his presidency,” said Mr. Gabuev, the Carnegie Moscow senior fellow now in Istanbul. For Mr. Hollande, “Mr. Putin has committed the irremediable.”
President Biden has called Mr. Putin a “brute,” a “war criminal” and a “killer.” “For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power,” he said in Poland on Saturday. Yet the Russian leader retains deep reserves of support in Russia, and tight control over his security services.
That power corrupts is well known. An immense distance seems to separate the man who won over the Bundestag in 2001 with a conciliatory speech and the ranting leader berating the “national traitors” seduced by the West who “can’t do without foie gras, oysters or the so-called gender freedoms,” as he put it in his scum-and-traitors speech this month. If nuclear war remains a remote possibility, it is far less remote than a month ago — a subject of regular dinner-table conversations across Europe as Mr. Putin pursues the “de-Nazification” of a country whose leader is Jewish.
It is as if, after a flirtation with a new idea — a Russia integrated with the West — Mr. Putin, who will be 70 this year, reverted to something deeper in his psyche: the world of his childhood after The Great Patriotic War had been won, with Russia in his head again liberating Ukrainians from Nazism, and Stalin restored to heroic stature.
With his assault on independent media completed, his insistence that the invasion is not a “war,” and his liquidation of Memorial International, the leading human rights organization chronicling Stalin-era persecution, Mr. Putin has circled back to his roots in a totalitarian country.
Mr. Röttgen, who stood to applaud Mr. Putin 21 years ago, told me: “I think at this point he either wins or he’s done. Done politically, or done physically.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/vladimir-putin-russia.html?
Date: 28/03/2022 19:57:06
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866235
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“The Russian Army abandoned an offensive on Sumy city in the northeastern Ukraine’s province bordering Russia. The battalion of the 1st tank army, which kept attacking the city, was fully withdrawn to the Russian territory. Source: Gen. Staff. of UAF.”
Date: 28/03/2022 19:58:01
From: dv
ID: 1866237
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
“The Russian Army abandoned an offensive on Sumy city in the northeastern Ukraine’s province bordering Russia. The battalion of the 1st tank army, which kept attacking the city, was fully withdrawn to the Russian territory. Source: Gen. Staff. of UAF.”
Hmm
Date: 28/03/2022 20:36:37
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866250
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
We have discussed the Russian long game here, and my theory that Russia wont settle for anything less than the Ukraine back under its control has been largely dismissed by those in here, but I unfortunately may be correct…
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508196832136122381
Russian media is suddenly explicit about what Russia is really doing in Ukraine. Citing Vasily Zenkovsky’s writings from 1931, propagandist Dmitry Kiselyov laid it out: “Russia will never cede Ukraine to anyone… it has to be part of Russia, even against Ukraine’s own will.”
Date: 28/03/2022 20:37:54
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866252
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
We have discussed the Russian long game here, and my theory that Russia wont settle for anything less than the Ukraine back under its control has been largely dismissed by those in here, but I unfortunately may be correct…
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508196832136122381
Russian media is suddenly explicit about what Russia is really doing in Ukraine. Citing Vasily Zenkovsky’s writings from 1931, propagandist Dmitry Kiselyov laid it out: “Russia will never cede Ukraine to anyone… it has to be part of Russia, even against Ukraine’s own will.”
That may well be his intention, but I can’t agree that he’s likely to succeed.
Date: 28/03/2022 20:42:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866253
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
We have discussed the Russian long game here, and my theory that Russia wont settle for anything less than the Ukraine back under its control has been largely dismissed by those in here, but I unfortunately may be correct…
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508196832136122381
Russian media is suddenly explicit about what Russia is really doing in Ukraine. Citing Vasily Zenkovsky’s writings from 1931, propagandist Dmitry Kiselyov laid it out: “Russia will never cede Ukraine to anyone… it has to be part of Russia, even against Ukraine’s own will.”
That may well be his intention, but I can’t agree that he’s likely to succeed.
put it this way, if they fuck around enough then when régime change happens it’ll turn out that Russia is actually part of Ukraine and then we’ll see
Date: 28/03/2022 20:42:27
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866254
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
We have discussed the Russian long game here, and my theory that Russia wont settle for anything less than the Ukraine back under its control has been largely dismissed by those in here, but I unfortunately may be correct…
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508196832136122381
Russian media is suddenly explicit about what Russia is really doing in Ukraine. Citing Vasily Zenkovsky’s writings from 1931, propagandist Dmitry Kiselyov laid it out: “Russia will never cede Ukraine to anyone… it has to be part of Russia, even against Ukraine’s own will.”
That may well be his intention, but I can’t agree that he’s likely to succeed.
He can succeed by pulling his troops out and bombing its cities and people into submission. Putin wants the land, not the people in it.
Date: 28/03/2022 20:45:19
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866255
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
We have discussed the Russian long game here, and my theory that Russia wont settle for anything less than the Ukraine back under its control has been largely dismissed by those in here, but I unfortunately may be correct…
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508196832136122381
Russian media is suddenly explicit about what Russia is really doing in Ukraine. Citing Vasily Zenkovsky’s writings from 1931, propagandist Dmitry Kiselyov laid it out: “Russia will never cede Ukraine to anyone… it has to be part of Russia, even against Ukraine’s own will.”
That may well be his intention, but I can’t agree that he’s likely to succeed.
He can succeed by pulling his troops out and bombing its cities and people into submission. Putin wants the land, not the people in it.
You can’t conquer a country without winning the land war. Ukraine isn’t about be bombed or bluffed into submission.
Date: 28/03/2022 20:46:30
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866256
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine isn’t about be = to
Date: 28/03/2022 20:47:38
From: party_pants
ID: 1866257
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
We have discussed the Russian long game here, and my theory that Russia wont settle for anything less than the Ukraine back under its control has been largely dismissed by those in here, but I unfortunately may be correct…
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508196832136122381
Russian media is suddenly explicit about what Russia is really doing in Ukraine. Citing Vasily Zenkovsky’s writings from 1931, propagandist Dmitry Kiselyov laid it out: “Russia will never cede Ukraine to anyone… it has to be part of Russia, even against Ukraine’s own will.”
It is the 9 (I think) strategic access points to the Russian plains. Under the Soviet Union they controlled all of them. With the collapse of the USSR the Russian successor state went from controlling all 9 down to just one or two. This is what all the wars in Georgia and Chechnya were about – Russia regaining control of the strategic access points. Ukraine is the gateway to another couple of these points, that stretch further than just Ukraine into Moldova and Romania. There are also strategic points in Poland and the Baltic states. Putin and his staff are still thinking like they are the old Soviet Union and entitled to these points of strategic control, even if they fall within the territory of independent and sovereign countries.
Russia must be destroyed so they stop thinking like this.
Date: 28/03/2022 21:01:57
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1866258
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
Bubblecar said:
That may well be his intention, but I can’t agree that he’s likely to succeed.
He can succeed by pulling his troops out and bombing its cities and people into submission. Putin wants the land, not the people in it.
You can’t conquer a country without winning the land war. Ukraine isn’t about be bombed or bluffed into submission.
And a lot of the NATO countries will just keep on supplying Ukraine with and endless supply of anti-aircraft weapons. Russia simply cannot win the resources war.
Date: 28/03/2022 21:18:55
From: party_pants
ID: 1866260
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Spiny Norman said:
Bubblecar said:
Dark Orange said:
He can succeed by pulling his troops out and bombing its cities and people into submission. Putin wants the land, not the people in it.
You can’t conquer a country without winning the land war. Ukraine isn’t about be bombed or bluffed into submission.
And a lot of the NATO countries will just keep on supplying Ukraine with and endless supply of anti-aircraft weapons. Russia simply cannot win the resources war.
They must. NATO absolutely must keep this war confined to Ukrainian territory, because Romania, Poland and the Baltic states are next on the list. NATO must avoid a direct military confrontation with Russia. Sadly for Ukraine, but that is the reality of the situation. Russia must be locked down in Ukraine while the sanctions have time to bite and destroy the Russian economy.
Date: 28/03/2022 21:21:12
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1866263
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Spiny Norman said:
Bubblecar said:
You can’t conquer a country without winning the land war. Ukraine isn’t about be bombed or bluffed into submission.
And a lot of the NATO countries will just keep on supplying Ukraine with and endless supply of anti-aircraft weapons. Russia simply cannot win the resources war.
They must. NATO absolutely must keep this war confined to Ukrainian territory, because Romania, Poland and the Baltic states are next on the list. NATO must avoid a direct military confrontation with Russia. Sadly for Ukraine, but that is the reality of the situation. Russia must be locked down in Ukraine while the sanctions have time to bite and destroy the Russian economy.
Yep, that resources war as well.
Date: 28/03/2022 21:43:15
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866275
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
not new but can’t see that this has been covered here
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/14/business/potassium-iodide-pills-demand-surge/index.html
As Russia’s assault in Ukraine intensifies, fear of radioactive fallout from accidental or intentional attacks on Ukraine’s nuclear plants, or from the use of a nuclear bomb, has triggered surging demand for potassium iodide pills. When used as directed, potassium iodide in liquid or pill form can quickly saturate the thyroid gland and prevent it from absorbing radioactive iodine.
Large manufacturers of potassium iodide approved for sale in the United Sates have seen their inventories rapidly depleted in recent weeks, coinciding with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. As supplies in the market dry up, price gouging has set in. On eBay (EBAY), four boxes of Thyrosafe potassium iodide tablets were listed for $132.50 on Monday. Another listing for a box of IOSAT 130 mg pills was selling for $89.95 each. The 14-pack box of the IOSAT tablets, made by Anbex, sell for $13.99 on the manufacturer’s website.
“The big run started on February 23 through February 28. We sold out of all the inventory we had,” Jones said. Although supplies are being replenished weekly, they’re selling out just as fast. “In the past five days we’ve probably sold as much as what typically would take us half a year to sell,” he added. Historically, demand for potassium iodide spikes when there’s a real or perceived threat of nuclear fallout, Jones said. Demand soared when former President Donald Trump tweeted in 2018 that he had a “much bigger & more powerful” button than North Korea’s Kim Jong-un, igniting fear about an escalating threat of nuclear war. It also happened in the same year when the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency sent out a false ballistic missile alert.
Date: 28/03/2022 22:01:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866290
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
speaking of National Socialism here’s another one for all you board game enthusiasts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_board_game there might be a message about Turdle or similar here or there might not
Date: 29/03/2022 12:44:30
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866460
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Fun All Around
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60904676
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-roman-abramovich-and-ukrainian-peace-negotiators-suffered-symptoms-of-suspected-chemical-weapons-poisoning-after-talks-in-kyiv-12576989
Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich suffered symptoms of suspected poisoning at peace talks on the Ukraine-Belarus border earlier this month, sources close to him say. The Chelsea FC owner – who has now recovered – reportedly suffered sore eyes and peeling skin. Two Ukrainian peace negotiators were also said to have been affected. One report said the alleged poisoning was orchestrated by hardliners in Russia who wanted to sabotage talks.
Date: 29/03/2022 12:48:36
From: Cymek
ID: 1866462
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Fun All Around
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60904676
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-roman-abramovich-and-ukrainian-peace-negotiators-suffered-symptoms-of-suspected-chemical-weapons-poisoning-after-talks-in-kyiv-12576989
Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich suffered symptoms of suspected poisoning at peace talks on the Ukraine-Belarus border earlier this month, sources close to him say. The Chelsea FC owner – who has now recovered – reportedly suffered sore eyes and peeling skin. Two Ukrainian peace negotiators were also said to have been affected. One report said the alleged poisoning was orchestrated by hardliners in Russia who wanted to sabotage talks.
Russian poison shop “You want polonium ?”
Russian hardliner “Dah”
Russian poison shop “Is it for business or pleasure, business you can claim it on tax”
Russian hardliner “Business for sure, try to get rid of government embarrassment, the pleasure is just bonus”
Date: 29/03/2022 13:00:37
From: dv
ID: 1866464
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich suffered symptoms of suspected poisoning at peace talks on the Ukraine-Belarus border earlier this month, sources close to him say.
—-
Maybe I’ve been dozing but I didn’t know RA was involved in the peace talks.
Date: 29/03/2022 13:03:54
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1866466
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich suffered symptoms of suspected poisoning at peace talks on the Ukraine-Belarus border earlier this month, sources close to him say.
—-
Maybe I’ve been dozing but I didn’t know RA was involved in the peace talks.
+2
Date: 29/03/2022 13:20:04
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1866473
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Andrei Kozyrev says that there can be no return to normal business with Russia once the war ends
Russia’s former foreign minister argues that both Russia and Ukraine must reform instead
Mar 25th 2022
The strength of Ukraine’s resistance and the amount of Western support it receives will determine how Vladimir Putin’s war there ends. Negotiations should be left to Ukraine and Russia, without Western interference. Discussion should also commence on what post-war Europe will be like. One of my country’s, and indeed the world’s, great writers, Leo Tolstoy, believed that nations with higher moral resolve win in war. And so they do in peace. The end of the conflict, which will come through negotiation, will provide both Russia and Ukraine an opportunity to conduct needed reforms.
Such opportunities have been squandered in the past. After Ukrainians and Russians defeated Nazi Germany in the 1940s, Joseph Stalin managed to keep his grip on power. And now the Kremlin abuses the glorious and painful memories of that victory to support its current exploits. When Ukraine gained independence in 1990 from the Soviet Union, robust nation-building and commitments to join European institutions did not emerge—in contrast with other countries in eastern Europe.
Ukraine’s courageous fighting boosts its national identity and international standing. Volodymyr Zelensky has emerged as a great war leader. But that is no reason for complacency. Ukraine is not in the eu at this tragic hour in part because it could not meet Western standards on law and order and on anti-corruption measures. It should make a greater effort to reform after the war in order to open Europe’s doors.
The West must double its support to the country in turn as it rebuilds and recovers. A Marshall plan of sorts will be needed and encouragement from the eu about its possible future membership in order to inspire it. (Several states already have spoken in support of the application it made to join just days into the war.) Failing to do so could have dire consequences. A nation in the centre of Europe subdued to Mr Putin’s control would set a dangerous precedent.
The prospect of a westernising, democratic and prosperous Ukraine is the nightmare of the Putin regime because it will be a powerful motivation for Russians to follow suit. In order to change, however, the country must be recognised for what it is—a nation under a belligerent and ruthless dictatorship—and treated by the West accordingly.
Mr Putin has stoked nationalism as a means of maintaining power. For years the Kremlin has cracked down on free speech and democracy, and proved its commitment to dominating Ukraine, undermining the West and protecting dictatorships as far away as Syria, Cuba and Venezuela. The West reacted with inadequate words and sluggish sanctions. (Dirty money has brought comfort to Russia’s elites and corruption to the West.) Mr Putin demands that nato backtrack from eastern and central Europe. The cold war’s divisive lines are back in Europe and beyond, like it or not. For the situation to change, Russia must change.
America and its allies at last imposed tough sanctions on Russia in recent weeks because it again violated the civilised norms of behaviour in Ukraine. Yet useful idiots or pseudo-experts on Russia who hold sympathies for autocratic leaders, such as Tucker Carlson on Fox News, are pushing for a prompt return to business as usual with Russia and its oligarchs. If they succeed, the sacrifices of Ukrainians and the discomfort of Western taxpayers will have been for nothing.
If the Kremlin gets away with this war, and business relations return to normal in its aftermath, the country’s aggression will continue to grow—with or without Mr Putin. The West should keep the bulk of its sanctions in place and maintain its military preparedness until the Kremlin respects the rights of its people, and of those in other countries, in line with international norms. Sadly, Russians will be badly affected by Western sanctions. But it will be impossible to hide the sanctions’ effects, even amid the mire of the Kremlin’s militarist propaganda. And only the country’s citizens can reform the regime.
If the West wants to save its zone of peace and prosperity it must welcome Ukraine in and keep Russia out. That means ending its treacherous dependence on Russian oil and gas. The present regime is too dangerous to carry on business with when the conflict eventually ends.
Andrei V. Kozyrev was Russia’s foreign minister between 1991 and 1996. He was twice elected as a member of the Duma, the Russian parliament. He has worked as a businessman since 2000 and has written two books: “The Firebird” (2019) and “The Caligula Curse” (2021).
https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/03/25/andrei-kozyrev-says-that-there-can-be-no-return-to-normal-business-with-russia-once-the-war-ends?
Date: 29/03/2022 13:29:35
From: Cymek
ID: 1866475
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Andrei Kozyrev says that there can be no return to normal business with Russia once the war ends
Russia’s former foreign minister argues that both Russia and Ukraine must reform instead
Mar 25th 2022
The strength of Ukraine’s resistance and the amount of Western support it receives will determine how Vladimir Putin’s war there ends. Negotiations should be left to Ukraine and Russia, without Western interference. Discussion should also commence on what post-war Europe will be like. One of my country’s, and indeed the world’s, great writers, Leo Tolstoy, believed that nations with higher moral resolve win in war. And so they do in peace. The end of the conflict, which will come through negotiation, will provide both Russia and Ukraine an opportunity to conduct needed reforms.
Such opportunities have been squandered in the past. After Ukrainians and Russians defeated Nazi Germany in the 1940s, Joseph Stalin managed to keep his grip on power. And now the Kremlin abuses the glorious and painful memories of that victory to support its current exploits. When Ukraine gained independence in 1990 from the Soviet Union, robust nation-building and commitments to join European institutions did not emerge—in contrast with other countries in eastern Europe.
Ukraine’s courageous fighting boosts its national identity and international standing. Volodymyr Zelensky has emerged as a great war leader. But that is no reason for complacency. Ukraine is not in the eu at this tragic hour in part because it could not meet Western standards on law and order and on anti-corruption measures. It should make a greater effort to reform after the war in order to open Europe’s doors.
The West must double its support to the country in turn as it rebuilds and recovers. A Marshall plan of sorts will be needed and encouragement from the eu about its possible future membership in order to inspire it. (Several states already have spoken in support of the application it made to join just days into the war.) Failing to do so could have dire consequences. A nation in the centre of Europe subdued to Mr Putin’s control would set a dangerous precedent.
The prospect of a westernising, democratic and prosperous Ukraine is the nightmare of the Putin regime because it will be a powerful motivation for Russians to follow suit. In order to change, however, the country must be recognised for what it is—a nation under a belligerent and ruthless dictatorship—and treated by the West accordingly.
Mr Putin has stoked nationalism as a means of maintaining power. For years the Kremlin has cracked down on free speech and democracy, and proved its commitment to dominating Ukraine, undermining the West and protecting dictatorships as far away as Syria, Cuba and Venezuela. The West reacted with inadequate words and sluggish sanctions. (Dirty money has brought comfort to Russia’s elites and corruption to the West.) Mr Putin demands that nato backtrack from eastern and central Europe. The cold war’s divisive lines are back in Europe and beyond, like it or not. For the situation to change, Russia must change.
America and its allies at last imposed tough sanctions on Russia in recent weeks because it again violated the civilised norms of behaviour in Ukraine. Yet useful idiots or pseudo-experts on Russia who hold sympathies for autocratic leaders, such as Tucker Carlson on Fox News, are pushing for a prompt return to business as usual with Russia and its oligarchs. If they succeed, the sacrifices of Ukrainians and the discomfort of Western taxpayers will have been for nothing.
If the Kremlin gets away with this war, and business relations return to normal in its aftermath, the country’s aggression will continue to grow—with or without Mr Putin. The West should keep the bulk of its sanctions in place and maintain its military preparedness until the Kremlin respects the rights of its people, and of those in other countries, in line with international norms. Sadly, Russians will be badly affected by Western sanctions. But it will be impossible to hide the sanctions’ effects, even amid the mire of the Kremlin’s militarist propaganda. And only the country’s citizens can reform the regime.
If the West wants to save its zone of peace and prosperity it must welcome Ukraine in and keep Russia out. That means ending its treacherous dependence on Russian oil and gas. The present regime is too dangerous to carry on business with when the conflict eventually ends.
Andrei V. Kozyrev was Russia’s foreign minister between 1991 and 1996. He was twice elected as a member of the Duma, the Russian parliament. He has worked as a businessman since 2000 and has written two books: “The Firebird” (2019) and “The Caligula Curse” (2021).
https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/03/25/andrei-kozyrev-says-that-there-can-be-no-return-to-normal-business-with-russia-once-the-war-ends?
I find it astonishing the powers that be thought it a good idea to rely on Russian oil and gas when it can be turned off at whim, plus giving money to what is still likely considered the enemy of at the very least a threat.
Is Ukraine fixable with all the damage its taken and yeah the sanctions should remain as it about the only victory the Ukrainians can get
Date: 29/03/2022 13:39:22
From: Michael V
ID: 1866480
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
UK says Russia has deployed private military to fight in Ukraine.
The UK Ministry of Defence says a private Russian army has been deployed in Ukraine to fight.
The ministry says they expected 1,000 mercenaries including senior leaders of the Wagner Group to be deployed in eastern Ukraine.
They say this move comes as the invasion of Ukraine has stalled.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-29/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskyy/100945928
More about the Wagner Group in the link below. Interesting, but not surprising. They’ve been involved in quite a lot of conflicts. I was not aware of this mob until today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
Date: 29/03/2022 13:45:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866485
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
I find it astonishing the powers that be thought it a good idea to rely on
anything cheap convenient and dirty really
Date: 29/03/2022 13:47:01
From: Cymek
ID: 1866488
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
UK says Russia has deployed private military to fight in Ukraine.
The UK Ministry of Defence says a private Russian army has been deployed in Ukraine to fight.
The ministry says they expected 1,000 mercenaries including senior leaders of the Wagner Group to be deployed in eastern Ukraine.
They say this move comes as the invasion of Ukraine has stalled.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-29/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskyy/100945928
More about the Wagner Group in the link below. Interesting, but not surprising. They’ve been involved in quite a lot of conflicts. I was not aware of this mob until today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
A subsidiary of Hart Industries
Date: 29/03/2022 13:49:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1866489
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Cymek said:
I find it astonishing the powers that be thought it a good idea to rely on
anything cheap convenient and dirty really
Seems that way
Date: 29/03/2022 14:02:34
From: sibeen
ID: 1866492
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
UK says Russia has deployed private military to fight in Ukraine.
The UK Ministry of Defence says a private Russian army has been deployed in Ukraine to fight.
The ministry says they expected 1,000 mercenaries including senior leaders of the Wagner Group to be deployed in eastern Ukraine.
They say this move comes as the invasion of Ukraine has stalled.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-29/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskyy/100945928
More about the Wagner Group in the link below. Interesting, but not surprising. They’ve been involved in quite a lot of conflicts. I was not aware of this mob until today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
A subsidiary of Hart Industries
Do you mean Wolfram & Hart?
Date: 29/03/2022 14:03:49
From: Cymek
ID: 1866493
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
UK says Russia has deployed private military to fight in Ukraine.
The UK Ministry of Defence says a private Russian army has been deployed in Ukraine to fight.
The ministry says they expected 1,000 mercenaries including senior leaders of the Wagner Group to be deployed in eastern Ukraine.
They say this move comes as the invasion of Ukraine has stalled.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-29/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskyy/100945928
More about the Wagner Group in the link below. Interesting, but not surprising. They’ve been involved in quite a lot of conflicts. I was not aware of this mob until today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
A subsidiary of Hart Industries
Do you mean Wolfram & Hart?
No it’s an obscure reference, Robert Wagner in Hart to Hart
Date: 29/03/2022 14:48:57
From: Woodie
ID: 1866527
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
sibeen said:
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
UK says Russia has deployed private military to fight in Ukraine.
The UK Ministry of Defence says a private Russian army has been deployed in Ukraine to fight.
The ministry says they expected 1,000 mercenaries including senior leaders of the Wagner Group to be deployed in eastern Ukraine.
They say this move comes as the invasion of Ukraine has stalled.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-29/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskyy/100945928
More about the Wagner Group in the link below. Interesting, but not surprising. They’ve been involved in quite a lot of conflicts. I was not aware of this mob until today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
A subsidiary of Hart Industries
Do you mean Wolfram & Hart?
Wasn’t Hart Industries something off the tele, IIRC?
Date: 29/03/2022 14:49:40
From: Cymek
ID: 1866529
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Woodie said:
sibeen said:
Cymek said:
A subsidiary of Hart Industries
Do you mean Wolfram & Hart?
Wasn’t Hart Industries something off the tele, IIRC?
Yes Robert Wagner starred in it
Date: 29/03/2022 14:52:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866533
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Woodie said:
sibeen said:
Do you mean Wolfram & Hart?
Wasn’t Hart Industries something off the tele, IIRC?
Yes Robert Wagner starred in it
Wagner of Wagner Group ¿
Date: 29/03/2022 19:05:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866620
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian propaganda video celebrating the re-taking of the town of Trostyanets a few days ago by Ukraine’s 93rd Mechanized Brigade.
Trostyanets was held since early in the war by the elite Russian 4th Guards Tank Division, some of which was wiped out in this battle, with the rest apparently fleeing back to the Russian border just 24km away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96v0XAuM87M
Date: 29/03/2022 21:05:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866665
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Text here is in Russian rather than Ukrainian, so presumably aimed at Russian internets.

Date: 29/03/2022 21:15:45
From: dv
ID: 1866676
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 29/03/2022 23:16:44
From: dv
ID: 1866710
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 29/03/2022 23:17:36
From: dv
ID: 1866711
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 29/03/2022 23:19:36
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866713
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

You posted that very image a couple hours ago.
Date: 29/03/2022 23:22:12
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866715
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:

Presumably dubbed into ‘Mercan for local fascists.
Date: 29/03/2022 23:29:01
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866719
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
An interesting video on the Russian’s “Hypersonic Missile” they threw at Ukraine last week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSPoF7IIefU&ab_channel=Sandboxx
Date: 29/03/2022 23:32:58
From: dv
ID: 1866724
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:

You posted that very image a couple hours ago.
And I’m going to keep doing it til my demands are met.
Date: 30/03/2022 00:18:07
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866741
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Russian state media TASS reports that Russia is reducing military presence near Kyiv and Cherniv as per the Istanbul negotiations, which they refer to as “Treaty on the Neutrality and Non-Nuclear Status of Ukraine.” According to TASS, Russia is doing this as a sign of goodwill for the negotiations.
Regardless of the truth on these statements, this is the first time Russian state media has acknowledged a concession of any type.”
Date: 30/03/2022 00:43:08
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866763
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
“Russian state media TASS reports that Russia is reducing military presence near Kyiv and Cherniv as per the Istanbul negotiations, which they refer to as “Treaty on the Neutrality and Non-Nuclear Status of Ukraine.” According to TASS, Russia is doing this as a sign of goodwill for the negotiations.
Regardless of the truth on these statements, this is the first time Russian state media has acknowledged a concession of any type.”
Disgustingly incongruous use of the term “goodwill”, in the circumstances.
Date: 30/03/2022 00:45:55
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866764
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
If they do start moving units out from around Kyiv, Ukraine should take this opportunity to increase their drone and launcher party strikes, to destroy as much equipment as they can before it’s taken out of harm’s way.
Date: 30/03/2022 00:57:24
From: party_pants
ID: 1866766
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
If they do start moving units out from around Kyiv, Ukraine should take this opportunity to increase their drone and launcher party strikes, to destroy as much equipment as they can before it’s taken out of harm’s way.
they should target fuel trucks. Get the enemy to abandon as many heavy vehicles as they must. Tanks consume lots of fuel, somewhere around 450 litres per 100km (or 0.5 miles per gallon). Make them run out of fuel just getting the tanks and tracked vehicles back home.
Date: 30/03/2022 01:00:20
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1866767
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
If they do start moving units out from around Kyiv, Ukraine should take this opportunity to increase their drone and launcher party strikes, to destroy as much equipment as they can before it’s taken out of harm’s way.
they should target fuel trucks. Get the enemy to abandon as many heavy vehicles as they must. Tanks consume lots of fuel, somewhere around 450 litres per 100km (or 0.5 miles per gallon). Make them run out of fuel just getting the tanks and tracked vehicles back home.
Aye.
Pity the Ukrainians don’t have many planes, they could turn it into a turkey shoot, as the US did in the first Gulf War when Saddam decided to move all his units out of Kuwait, without any surrender or ceasefire agreement.
Date: 30/03/2022 01:22:56
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1866770
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
Bubblecar said:
If they do start moving units out from around Kyiv, Ukraine should take this opportunity to increase their drone and launcher party strikes, to destroy as much equipment as they can before it’s taken out of harm’s way.
they should target fuel trucks. Get the enemy to abandon as many heavy vehicles as they must. Tanks consume lots of fuel, somewhere around 450 litres per 100km (or 0.5 miles per gallon). Make them run out of fuel just getting the tanks and tracked vehicles back home.
Aye.
Pity the Ukrainians don’t have many planes, they could turn it into a turkey shoot, as the US did in the first Gulf War when Saddam decided to move all his units out of Kuwait, without any surrender or ceasefire agreement.
Ukraine also need to be very careful because they can’t really afford to put their planes deliberately in the reach of Russian anti-aircraft defence systems
Date: 30/03/2022 01:40:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866772
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 30/03/2022 05:52:57
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1866782
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Interview
Volodymyr Zelensky in his own words
The transcript from his meeting with our journalists
Mar 27th 2022
ON MARCH 25TH 2022 Ukraine’s president spoke in person to The Economist in what he and his staff have taken to calling “the fortress”. Here are highlights of what he told us—switching freely between English, Ukrainian and Russian. We have edited them for clarity.
The Economist: You are an actor and president. Now you are being called a 21st-century Churchill. It’s an extraordinary change. How did it happen?
Volodymyr Zelensky: I think that these changes happened already in Ukraine when they elected me. It’s what wanted. They saw my honest position on everything. Like your father says, if you don’t know how to do something this way or that way, be honest and that’s it. You have to be honest, so that people believe you. You don’t need to try. You need to be yourself. And maybe, after you show who you are, maybe people will love you more than before, because they see that you are not so strong or are lazy at times. No, each time don’t lie and show people who you are exactly. And it’s important not to show that you are better than who you are.
TE: Did you always have it in you to be so brave? To be such a strong person?
VZ: It’s not about being brave. I have to act the way I do. I have to do it this way. None of us was ready for the war before it began. You can’t say, “If I were the President of Ukraine, then I would do it this way”, because you can’t imagine what it would mean. And you can’t imagine even how you will do it. That’s what it was like in this case with me. And all of the people around me.
TE: But you changed the way you govern?
VZ: Yes, of course. I understood what was going on. I understood many months ago what was going on. That is a very big story. It’s not only about Ukraine. It’s about the world, about the politicians of the world and I think we can speak about it after we win. Yes, and I hope we win. I’m sure we’ll win. That’s why I’m saying that I am not a hero. I understood what was going on. I wanted to change attitudes towards Ukraine. On one level it’s not about who has more weapons or more money or gas, oil etc. That’s why we have to have agency. That’s the first thing that I understood.
TE: Can you remember the moment when you understood what the conflict with Russia would be about?
VZ: I think it was when I became president. I could understand why some things were going on in a certain way and I tried to be honest with many world leaders, including those in Russia, of course. We had meetings. You remember our first meeting, our first and last meeting in 2019, with Putin at the Normandy Four talks?
We began to come to decision that we can’t be part of somebody. I wanted to change attitudes towards Ukraine, because, just to be clear, Ukrainians are people who are the same as people the USA and Europe and Russia. We are the same. We are on one level. It’s not about who has more weapons or more money or gas or oil, et cetera. And that’s why we have to have agency. That’s what I understood, the first thing that I understood, that we the people have . People are leaders and political leaders are losers, some of them. We began to do things this way and to develop this policy.
TE: So, now you are speaking to the people of the West, rather than to their politicians?
VZ: Yes. Yes, of course. I think so. Sometimes I think politicians live in an information vacuum. What we see is that this is a closed atmosphere with Putin now. So, he doesn’t know. I can’t describe everything that is going on with him. I can’t describe it, because I don’t know with whom he speaks each day or each week or each two weeks. That’s information we don’t have. That means he can’t understand or he couldn’t know what’s going on outside. Even me, when the war started, and I am very open to people…Even me, if I were sitting in the office and I don’t go outside for three or four days, I would not have correct information about what is going on in the world.
TE: When the war started did you suddenly click and think: “This is what the people want me to do… and I’m doing it.” Or was it your decision, thinking, “This is what I’m doing and you have to support me”?
VZ: I think that nobody, nobody, understood what to do when it began. I was in Kyiv, in the house, at the residence. I was home at that moment. It was 04:50am. With my wife and kids. They woke me up. They told me there were loud explosions. After a couple of minutes, I received the signal that a rocket attack was under way. They didn’t know what was going on. We knew that they were preparing . We knew it, of course. The first thing we did was call a State of Emergency and, a couple of days later, at a meeting of the National Security and Defence Council, we declared Martial Law. We understood that the Russians could attack, but we didn’t understand the magnitude.
TE: Let’s talk about now, about where we are in this stage of the war. Do you think there is any chance you can win?
VZ: We believe in victory. It’s impossible to believe in anything else. We will definitely win because this is our home, our land, our independence. It’s just a question of time.
TE: What does a Ukrainian victory look like?
VZ: Victory is being able to save as many lives as possible. Yes, to save as many lives as possible, because without this nothing would make sense. Our land is important, yes, but ultimately it’s just territory. I don’t know how long the war will last, but we will fight to the last city we have. From the start, when you choose an option about what people should do or not do, people don’t understand what a full-fledged war is. My job is to give a signal so that people know how to act.
And when you show how Ukraine is supposed to behave, you also have to behave accordingly . There was a decision whether to stay or leave. We are all wounded and hurt in the same way. was my signal to people about how we should respond to the attack. It’s about how the war started and how it’s going to end. It will end with us still standing here defending.
That’s my response to the question about what Ukraine’s victory will look like. Our victory may be temporary, maybe without resolving all issues, but we have chosen the direction we will move in.
TE: Do you need more help to win? And if so what kind?
VZ: We have a long list of items we need. The first thing is to put yourselves in our place and act pre-emptively, not after the situation becomes complicated. This concerns our partner countries. Here we are talking about sanctions. I am sure that if tougher sanctions had been levied earlier, a full-scale Russian attack would not have occurred.
TE: You mean it wouldn’t have happened?
VZ: It would have been on a different scale and without the assistance of Belarus, giving us more time. They would have shown Belarus what could happen if pre-emptive sanctions involving Russian businesses, oil and gas exports, etc were taken, and this taking into account that Belarusians do not support . Pre-emptive sanctions would have given more time to Ukraine’s military to prepare for Russia’s further invasion
I had raised the Nord Stream 2 pipeline with Biden and Merkel, when she was still in office, and Scholz. I said the first step will be to launch it, then they will block gas supplies to us, and next they will apply pressure, including on Moldova, and then Russia will block supplies in order to split countries within the EU. After that, the next step would be to launch an invasion. Russia was seeking Ukraine’s official recognition of Russian sovereignty in Crimea and of Russia-occupied areas in Donetsk and Luhansk regions. They also pushed Europe to pressure us to do so.
What hasn’t been done? have not completed the sanctions on disconnecting the banking system from SWIFT, many more banks have not been disconnected. They have taken very important steps to support us, but the central bank of Russia has not been disconnected. Impose an embargo on Russian oil and gas exports. All these sanctions are incomplete. They have been threatened, but not yet implemented. Now we are hearing that the decision depends on whether Russia launches a chemical attack on us. This is not the right approach. We are not guinea pigs to be experimented on.
view Russia now through a military-strategic lens and are using Ukraine as a shield. We are the ones who are feeling the pain. It is good that they are on the side of Ukraine, but they have to stop being defensive in their dialogue with Russia. We insist they can act offensively.
SWIFT is still operating in Russia for the leaders of Russia. Don’t forget that ordinary Russians are now isolated, deprived of information. They don’t know what’s going on.
The situation where the Ukrainian people, not the Ukrainian president, . Ukrainian people are dying. Russian people don’t know what’s going on. They don’t understand. Social media have been shut down and a lot of people, I think 90-95%, are watching television, a much higher percentage than in Ukraine and Europe. It’s a big problem because controls all levels of power and all this information. This is why I pushed for sanctions and to receive weapons.
Meanwhile, the Russians have blocked our supplies to Mariupol, Melitopol, Berdyansk, Kherson, Kharkiv, but they’re not in the cities. What do they do? For example, in Melitopol and Berdyansk they are switching to roubles. They are kidnapping the mayors of our cities. They killed some of them. Some of them we can’t find. Some of them we have found already, and they are dead. And some of them were replaced. They are doing the same thing that they did in Donbas in 2014. The same people are carrying out these operations. It’s the same methodology.
can’t say, “We’ll help you in the weeks .” It doesn’t allow us to unblock Russia-occupied cities, to bring food to residents there, to take the military initiative into our own hands. People are simply not able to get out. There is no food, medicine or drinking water there. And this is something we must do. These are issues which need to be addressed today and tomorrow, not in a couple of weeks.
Some small cities have been destroyed. There are no people and no houses. All that’s left is the name. Of course, Russia is to blame, but we were late in getting there, because of difficulties while bombs were flying. This is why we asked for military aircraft, why we asked for a no-fly zone to be established, because the Russians dropped bombs on these small cities, which only exist now as dots on a map.
TE: When you were asking for more arms, President Macron of France said that offensive weapons like tanks were a red line which Ukraine’s partners could not cross. Why?
VZ: Because they are afraid of Russia. And that’s it. And those who say it first are the first to be afraid.
TE: Boris Johnson has been much keener to send weapons.
VZ: Yes. To be honest, Johnson is a leader who is helping more. The leaders of countries react according to how their constituents act. In this case, Johnson is an example.
TE: And what about the Germans? There was a sudden shift after the invasion and German foreign policy appeared to change very quickly. Are they worried about doing more?
VZ: They are trying to be balanced. They have a long relationship with Russia and they are looking at the situation through the prism of the economy. They help out at times. I think they are trying to adjust to the situation as it develops. They are also looking at how the situation affects their own country. They can help, if there is pressure on them domestically to do so, and they can stop when they see what they have done is sufficient. I think Germany is more pragmatic than anyone else with regards to the situation among those countries which can really help. It’s not always about us, what we need and what the world needs. I think the Germans are making a mistake today. I think they make mistakes often. I think the legacy of Germany’s relations with Russia shows this.
Everyone has varied interests. There are those in the West who don’t mind a long war because it would mean exhausting Russia, even if this means the demise of Ukraine and comes at the cost of Ukrainian lives. This is definitely in the interests of some countries. For other countries, it would be better if the war ended quickly, because Russia’s market is a big one that their economies are suffering as a result of the war. They would like to see Russia keep certain markets. Other, truly wealthy countries, recognize Nazism in Russia and definitely want Ukraine to be victorious. And there are still other countries, smaller countries, which support us completely, but they are more liberal states and concerned with humanitarian issues. They want the war to end quickly at any cost, because they think people come first. And then there is the category of countries wanting the war to end quickly in any way possible because they can be considered as “the offices of the Russian Federation in Europe.”
TE: What category would you put Britain in?
VZ: Britain is definitely on our side. It is not performing a balancing act. Britain sees no alternative for the way out of the situation. Britain wants Ukraine to win and Russia to lose, but I’m not ready to say whether Britain wants the war to drag on or not.
TE: As for the United States, are they in the first group?
VZ: We’ll see. But they help. A lot of countries in Europe, in NATO, especially, have, as our soldiers say, many instruments. This is why the USA has pushed a lot of countries to help us, but a little bit more slowly than we needed.
TE: How has your relationship with America’s President, Joe Biden, changed? Does he recognise that you are not just a recipient, that you are driving the process?
VZ: There isn’t a straightforward answer to that question, because there are different centres of power in the United States. You know this better than I. Indeed, both the Congress and the Senate support Ukraine. This is true. But there have been times when there were certain battles, including elections, which have influenced steps they have taken and their resolve. Some processes move quickly, while others are held up because of domestic issues. Biden views Ukraine more as a subject than at the start. There have been different moments and different processes, and I recognise that this stance does not benefit everyone in the United States.
TE: What do you most want from the West?
VZ: Aeroplanes, tanks and armoured personnel vehicles. We don’t have as many as we need. We have taken a lot from the Russians. They are running. They are afraid of our soldiers and they are running. I think yesterday we got 12 or 17 tanks.
TE: Are you worried about exhausting the supply of essential military hardware?
VZ: The Russians have thousands of military vehicles, and they are coming and coming and coming. If we can joke in this situation, I will. There are some cities, where there are so many tanks, they can’t go away. They have tank traffic jams.
TE: Where?
VZ: We have our famous city Chornobaivka (in the Kherson region), where we have bombarded Russian military units for the tenth time. The Russians don’t realise what is happening, get lost, and keep on returning to the same place. The Russians have thousands of military vehicles. It’s not that Ukraine is running out of tanks, but we have fewer and fewer, because no one is selling us tanks and armoured vehicles. This is a big problem for us. We have not received planes, armoured vehicles and tanks. We have already given a list of the military hardware we are looking for. We know what we want, where it is and how many we need. Soviet hardware is available. That’s fine. It’s all the same to us. All the countries which possess this equipment have received our letters.
TE: Are you making any progress in getting the equipment?
VZ: I don’t know. It depends on the will of these countries and on the USA, NATO. Many of these countries, especially European countries, say they need the permission of NATO, and they don’t have it.
TE: Can there be a lasting peace with Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin?
VZ: I don’t know. I don’t know if Putin even knows the answer to this question. I think many factors will weigh on his decision. Stability in regions where Russia is present will play a role and influence his decisions. The issue of how relations between Russia and Ukraine will change as a result of what has happened is a big one. I don’t have an answer to this. This is a big problem, a very big problem.
TE: You have said you want to meet Putin face-to-face. What would you say to him?
VZ: There are a lot of things. We have to speak. It’s not about one question, one answer. It’s about decisions. We have to speak about concrete things, about concrete months, maybe something about years, maybe something to decide now, maybe to talk if we can’t find a decision and agree not to fight about it. That is my philosophy. Let’s do everything step by step. Let’s find a decision one step at a time. We can talk about everything. But we can’t compromise on everything. We have to understand that Ukraine is our land. He has to understand what is going on and we have to understand each other, if it’s possible. It’s not about respect, about love, or something else. It’s not about feelings. It’s very concrete. There is a problem and we have to figure it out in detail and solve it.
TE: Do you think that fundamentally Putin believes Ukraine has no right to exist?
VZ: I don’t think he visualises in his own mind the same Ukraine we see. He sees Ukraine as a part of his world, his worldview, but that doesn’t correspond with what’s happened over the last 30 years. I don’t think Putin has been a bunker for two weeks or six months, but for more like two decades. I don’t mean this literally, but in the sense that he has been in information isolation getting fed information by his coterie. And Ukraine, while he’s been in this bunker, has changed significantly. So the way he sees Ukraine is very different from the Ukraine that actually exists in real life.
TE: Putin has a 20th-century view of a 21st-century country.
VZ: Yes. That is his problem.
TE: For you ’victory’ means saving as many lives as possible, but politically that might be untenable. How can you win, save lives and at the same time save the country? Is this even possible?
VZ: To save everyone, defend all interests while protecting people and not giving up territory is probably an impossible task. You’re right. This presents a difficult choice, but sometimes there exist so-called “principled” decisions. Take, for example, cities, which, if we decided to abandon them voluntarily, would be taken by Putin, who would continue advancing, farther and farther, because he has the appetite of a hungry person. What’s important here is not that this choice is a “good” one or “bad” one, per se. What’s important is that the decision is made together with the people.
Just take a look at the people in Kherson who waved their hands in the middle of the streets in order to stop tanks. They decided to stand up and do this of their own volition. I could not have ordered them not to do it or to throw themselves under the tank treads. I will stay with these people until the end.
Everyone faces the choice of whether to risk becoming a casualty. It’s the most difficult one to make. It’s possible that some compromises, ones which don’t risk our physical survival, will be made to save the lives of thousands of people. As for compromises that may risk the disintegration of the country, the ones which Putin proposes, or rather demands in the form of an ultimatum, we will never make them. Never.
We win as long as we remain resolute about not giving into these demands. I think that we are winning. The military situation is difficult, but we are repulsing attacks.
The invaders do not even mourn their own casualties. This is something I do not understand. Some 15,000 have been killed in one month. We in Ukraine talk about our war that has lasted for eight years. Eight years! In eight years, we have also lost 15,000 lives. And Russia loses 15,000 of its soldiers in a month! He is throwing Russian soldiers like logs into a train’s furnace. And, they are not even burying them. They are not burying them at all. Their corpses are left in the streets. In several cities, small cities, our soldiers say it’s impossible to breathe because of the smell. It is the stench of rotting flesh. It’s a complete nightmare.
Our fearless soldiers are defending Mariupol now. They could have left now, if they wanted. They could have left a long time ago, but they are not leaving the city. Do you know why? Because there are still others alive in the city along with their wounded. And then there are the dead, the fallen comrades. Ukraine’s defenders say they must stay and bury those killed in action and save the lives of those wounded in action. As long as people are still alive, we must continue to protect them. And this is the fundamental difference between the way the opposing sides in this war see the world.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/27/volodymyr-zelensky-in-his-own-words
Date: 30/03/2022 06:46:00
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1866783
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Why Russian radios in Ukraine are getting spammed with heavy metal
Ukrainians are eavesdropping on the invaders and broadcasting on their frequencies
Mar 28th 2022
One of the many surprising failures of the Russian invasion force in Ukraine has been in radio communications. There have been stories of troops resorting to commercial walkie-talkies and Ukrainians intercepting their frequencies. This may not sound as serious as a lack of modern tanks or missiles, but it helps explain why Russian forces seem poorly co-ordinated, are falling victim to ambushes and have lost so many troops, reportedly including seven generals. What is going wrong with Russian radios?
Modern military-grade radios encrypt signals and change the frequency on which they operate many times a second, making their transmissions impossible to intercept. But many Russian forces are communicating on unencrypted high-frequency (HF) channels that allow anyone with a ham radio to eavesdrop. The Russian army does have some modern tech. It started receiving Azart radios, which have built-in encryption and can operate on much higher frequencies, in 2012. Thomas Withington, a military analyst specialising in electronic warfare, says that the Azart system seems adequate, if inferior to the equipment used by NATO forces. But there are not enough radios to go around. Russian news reports have talked enthusiastically about deliveries of a few hundred radios shipped to whole army groups comprising several thousand troops. By the most optimistic estimates only a fraction of the invasion force could have Azart radios.
Nor is it clear if Azart works as intended. Developing a reliable and secure system is tricky. The British army experienced compatibility problems and delays with its new Bowman radios in the 2000s, and America wasted billions of dollars on its Joint Tactical Radio System, which was designed to replace a patchwork of different systems with a single one. Parts of the programme were eventually cancelled. Mr Withington is doubtful whether the Russian procurement system is as efficient as its Western counterparts, and corruption is endemic. The Azart project was embroiled in a scandal when supposedly Russian-made components were found to have been imported from China. About a third of the total procurement budget of 18.5bn roubles (around $240m at the time) was allegedly embezzled.
Russia has other radios, but Azart may not be compatible with them. If an elite airborne unit has modern Azart radios but the artillery supporting it is using legacy systems or commercial sets, the two will end up communicating via unsecure HF. Photographs of captured military equipment, and verified intercepts, indicate that Russians are using Motorola, Kenwood and Baofeng walkie-talkies. An integrated system gives a commander instant voice communication, location details and data exchange with neighbouring units, artillery, air support and reconnaissance drones. Walkie-talkies are much too basic to support such co-ordinated operations.
Ukrainian defenders have been sharing known military frequencies, recording Russian communications and uploading to them for volunteers to transcribe and parse for information. Some of these supposed radio intercepts sound like Ukrainian propaganda. These include conversations in which Russian commanders report that half their troops are suffering from frostbite, that they do not have enough transport for all their dead or that they are being hit by friendly fire. But many seem genuine. Mr Withington says that some have been matched with actions on the ground, giving them credibility. In one recording troops in an armoured column can be heard saying they have been “ambushed” as their vehicles come under fire.
It is not just what the Russians are saying that can compromise them. Older radios can be tracked using radio-direction finding—such as triangulating the source of a transmission from two receivers—and insecure radio may be jammed. There are reports of frequencies used by Russian forces being bombarded with heavy-metal music or other transmissions from Ukrainian operators, sometimes during combat. Meanwhile NATO aircraft flying near Ukraine’s western borders are hoovering up radio signals from Russian forces. And the West will provide Ukraine with more equipment to locate, intercept and jam Russian communications.
Radio problems may also be indirectly killing Russian generals and other commanders. The frustrating lack of communication from units leading the stalled advance compels senior officers to go forward in person and become targets. In one instance, Ukrainian forces claimed they identified and located a Russian general, whom they then killed, because he was communicating over an unencrypted channel. Radios may be less lethal than weapons, but Russia’s failure to invest in its communications is hobbling its forces.
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2022/03/28/why-russian-radios-ukraine-war-intercepted-heavy-metal?
Date: 30/03/2022 08:11:24
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866798
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
Why Russian radios in Ukraine are getting spammed with heavy metal
Ukrainians are eavesdropping on the invaders and broadcasting on their frequencies
Mar 28th 2022
One of the many surprising failures of the Russian invasion force in Ukraine has been in radio communications. There have been stories of troops resorting to commercial walkie-talkies and Ukrainians intercepting their frequencies. This may not sound as serious as a lack of modern tanks or missiles, but it helps explain why Russian forces seem poorly co-ordinated, are falling victim to ambushes and have lost so many troops, reportedly including seven generals. What is going wrong with Russian radios?
Modern military-grade radios encrypt signals and change the frequency on which they operate many times a second, making their transmissions impossible to intercept. But many Russian forces are communicating on unencrypted high-frequency (HF) channels that allow anyone with a ham radio to eavesdrop. The Russian army does have some modern tech. It started receiving Azart radios, which have built-in encryption and can operate on much higher frequencies, in 2012. Thomas Withington, a military analyst specialising in electronic warfare, says that the Azart system seems adequate, if inferior to the equipment used by NATO forces. But there are not enough radios to go around. Russian news reports have talked enthusiastically about deliveries of a few hundred radios shipped to whole army groups comprising several thousand troops. By the most optimistic estimates only a fraction of the invasion force could have Azart radios.
Nor is it clear if Azart works as intended. Developing a reliable and secure system is tricky. The British army experienced compatibility problems and delays with its new Bowman radios in the 2000s, and America wasted billions of dollars on its Joint Tactical Radio System, which was designed to replace a patchwork of different systems with a single one. Parts of the programme were eventually cancelled. Mr Withington is doubtful whether the Russian procurement system is as efficient as its Western counterparts, and corruption is endemic. The Azart project was embroiled in a scandal when supposedly Russian-made components were found to have been imported from China. About a third of the total procurement budget of 18.5bn roubles (around $240m at the time) was allegedly embezzled.
Russia has other radios, but Azart may not be compatible with them. If an elite airborne unit has modern Azart radios but the artillery supporting it is using legacy systems or commercial sets, the two will end up communicating via unsecure HF. Photographs of captured military equipment, and verified intercepts, indicate that Russians are using Motorola, Kenwood and Baofeng walkie-talkies. An integrated system gives a commander instant voice communication, location details and data exchange with neighbouring units, artillery, air support and reconnaissance drones. Walkie-talkies are much too basic to support such co-ordinated operations.
Ukrainian defenders have been sharing known military frequencies, recording Russian communications and uploading to them for volunteers to transcribe and parse for information. Some of these supposed radio intercepts sound like Ukrainian propaganda. These include conversations in which Russian commanders report that half their troops are suffering from frostbite, that they do not have enough transport for all their dead or that they are being hit by friendly fire. But many seem genuine. Mr Withington says that some have been matched with actions on the ground, giving them credibility. In one recording troops in an armoured column can be heard saying they have been “ambushed” as their vehicles come under fire.
It is not just what the Russians are saying that can compromise them. Older radios can be tracked using radio-direction finding—such as triangulating the source of a transmission from two receivers—and insecure radio may be jammed. There are reports of frequencies used by Russian forces being bombarded with heavy-metal music or other transmissions from Ukrainian operators, sometimes during combat. Meanwhile NATO aircraft flying near Ukraine’s western borders are hoovering up radio signals from Russian forces. And the West will provide Ukraine with more equipment to locate, intercept and jam Russian communications.
Radio problems may also be indirectly killing Russian generals and other commanders. The frustrating lack of communication from units leading the stalled advance compels senior officers to go forward in person and become targets. In one instance, Ukrainian forces claimed they identified and located a Russian general, whom they then killed, because he was communicating over an unencrypted channel. Radios may be less lethal than weapons, but Russia’s failure to invest in its communications is hobbling its forces.
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2022/03/28/why-russian-radios-ukraine-war-intercepted-heavy-metal?
Add to that underpaid and under-equipped soldiers selling them off for money in the months leading up to the war.
Date: 30/03/2022 08:14:33
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866799
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1508813217006501889
The author of the now celebrated Ukrainian battle cry “Russian warship, go f… yourself” serviceman Roman Gribov, is awarded a medal for displaying the “strength of Ukrainian, Kozak spirit.” He was captured and then exchanged by the Russian invaders in a prisoner swap.
Date: 30/03/2022 08:19:17
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866800
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
Why Russian radios in Ukraine are getting spammed with heavy metal
Ukrainians are eavesdropping on the invaders and broadcasting on their frequencies
Mar 28th 2022
One of the many surprising failures of the Russian invasion force in Ukraine has been in radio communications. There have been stories of troops resorting to commercial walkie-talkies and Ukrainians intercepting their frequencies. This may not sound as serious as a lack of modern tanks or missiles, but it helps explain why Russian forces seem poorly co-ordinated, are falling victim to ambushes and have lost so many troops, reportedly including seven generals. What is going wrong with Russian radios?
Modern military-grade radios encrypt signals and change the frequency on which they operate many times a second, making their transmissions impossible to intercept. But many Russian forces are communicating on unencrypted high-frequency (HF) channels that allow anyone with a ham radio to eavesdrop. The Russian army does have some modern tech. It started receiving Azart radios, which have built-in encryption and can operate on much higher frequencies, in 2012. Thomas Withington, a military analyst specialising in electronic warfare, says that the Azart system seems adequate, if inferior to the equipment used by NATO forces. But there are not enough radios to go around. Russian news reports have talked enthusiastically about deliveries of a few hundred radios shipped to whole army groups comprising several thousand troops. By the most optimistic estimates only a fraction of the invasion force could have Azart radios.
Nor is it clear if Azart works as intended. Developing a reliable and secure system is tricky. The British army experienced compatibility problems and delays with its new Bowman radios in the 2000s, and America wasted billions of dollars on its Joint Tactical Radio System, which was designed to replace a patchwork of different systems with a single one. Parts of the programme were eventually cancelled. Mr Withington is doubtful whether the Russian procurement system is as efficient as its Western counterparts, and corruption is endemic. The Azart project was embroiled in a scandal when supposedly Russian-made components were found to have been imported from China. About a third of the total procurement budget of 18.5bn roubles (around $240m at the time) was allegedly embezzled.
Russia has other radios, but Azart may not be compatible with them. If an elite airborne unit has modern Azart radios but the artillery supporting it is using legacy systems or commercial sets, the two will end up communicating via unsecure HF. Photographs of captured military equipment, and verified intercepts, indicate that Russians are using Motorola, Kenwood and Baofeng walkie-talkies. An integrated system gives a commander instant voice communication, location details and data exchange with neighbouring units, artillery, air support and reconnaissance drones. Walkie-talkies are much too basic to support such co-ordinated operations.
Ukrainian defenders have been sharing known military frequencies, recording Russian communications and uploading to them for volunteers to transcribe and parse for information. Some of these supposed radio intercepts sound like Ukrainian propaganda. These include conversations in which Russian commanders report that half their troops are suffering from frostbite, that they do not have enough transport for all their dead or that they are being hit by friendly fire. But many seem genuine. Mr Withington says that some have been matched with actions on the ground, giving them credibility. In one recording troops in an armoured column can be heard saying they have been “ambushed” as their vehicles come under fire.
It is not just what the Russians are saying that can compromise them. Older radios can be tracked using radio-direction finding—such as triangulating the source of a transmission from two receivers—and insecure radio may be jammed. There are reports of frequencies used by Russian forces being bombarded with heavy-metal music or other transmissions from Ukrainian operators, sometimes during combat. Meanwhile NATO aircraft flying near Ukraine’s western borders are hoovering up radio signals from Russian forces. And the West will provide Ukraine with more equipment to locate, intercept and jam Russian communications.
Radio problems may also be indirectly killing Russian generals and other commanders. The frustrating lack of communication from units leading the stalled advance compels senior officers to go forward in person and become targets. In one instance, Ukrainian forces claimed they identified and located a Russian general, whom they then killed, because he was communicating over an unencrypted channel. Radios may be less lethal than weapons, but Russia’s failure to invest in its communications is hobbling its forces.
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2022/03/28/why-russian-radios-ukraine-war-intercepted-heavy-metal?
Add to that underpaid and under-equipped soldiers selling them off for money in the months leading up to the war.
They sure are making lots of mistakes.
Date: 30/03/2022 08:45:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866805
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1508813217006501889
The author of the now celebrated Ukrainian battle cry “Russian warship, go f… yourself” serviceman Roman Gribov, is awarded a medal for displaying the “strength of Ukrainian, Kozak spirit.” He was captured and then exchanged by the Russian invaders in a prisoner swap.
they exchange dead prisoners now oh wait
Date: 30/03/2022 08:48:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866806
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1508813217006501889
The author of the now celebrated Ukrainian battle cry “Russian warship, go f… yourself” serviceman Roman Gribov, is awarded a medal for displaying the “strength of Ukrainian, Kozak spirit.” He was captured and then exchanged by the Russian invaders in a prisoner swap.
they exchange dead prisoners now oh wait
Russia leaves its dead on the streets.
Date: 30/03/2022 08:49:08
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866807
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
Dark Orange said:
https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1508813217006501889
The author of the now celebrated Ukrainian battle cry “Russian warship, go f… yourself” serviceman Roman Gribov, is awarded a medal for displaying the “strength of Ukrainian, Kozak spirit.” He was captured and then exchanged by the Russian invaders in a prisoner swap.
they exchange dead prisoners now oh wait
Assumed dead, but a couple survived and were taken as prisoners.
Date: 30/03/2022 09:49:56
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866811
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ha!
Ukraine Government official Sergiy Kyslytsya is back!
https://twitter.com/SergiyKyslytsya/status/1508923062842019842
“At the outset, I would like to inform you that the demilitarization of Russia conducted by the Ukrainian Army and supported by the entire Ukrainian people is well underway”.
Date: 30/03/2022 10:06:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866816
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Dark Orange said:
Ha!
Ukraine Government official Sergiy Kyslytsya is back!
https://twitter.com/SergiyKyslytsya/status/1508923062842019842
“At the outset, I would like to inform you that the demilitarization of Russia conducted by the Ukrainian Army and supported by the entire Ukrainian people is well underway”.
Australia should send 100’s of tractors
Date: 30/03/2022 10:17:47
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866817
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The Russian people need to see their dead soldiers left on the streets.
Date: 30/03/2022 10:35:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866830
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 30/03/2022 11:07:44
From: Cymek
ID: 1866838
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian missiles in Ukraine have failure rate of up to 60% – US officials
That’s unusual Russia is known for the quality of its workcomradeship
They aren’t exactly cheap weapons I wonder if they have a guarantee
Date: 30/03/2022 11:11:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866840
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian missiles in Ukraine have failure rate of up to 60% – US officials
That’s unusual Russia is known for the quality of its workcomradeship
They aren’t exactly cheap weapons I wonder if they have a guarantee
Training issues I would think, as in under trained.
Date: 30/03/2022 11:15:15
From: Tamb
ID: 1866843
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian missiles in Ukraine have failure rate of up to 60% – US officials
That’s unusual Russia is known for the quality of its workcomradeship
They aren’t exactly cheap weapons I wonder if they have a guarantee
The article mainly talks about air launched cruise missiles but the one in the photo looks like a ground launched missile.
Date: 30/03/2022 11:20:00
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1866849
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Russian missiles in Ukraine have failure rate of up to 60% – US officials
That’s unusual Russia is known for the quality of its workcomradeship
They aren’t exactly cheap weapons I wonder if they have a guarantee
Maintenance, probably.
My uncle was in ‘Nam and claimed he upped the Sidewinder success rate from 60% to over 90% simply by implementing correct storage and maintenance procedures.
Date: 30/03/2022 11:24:09
From: Cymek
ID: 1866853
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine-Russia live: Zelenskyy says Russia’s offers to ‘radically’ reduce assaults are positive, but they ‘do not drown out the explosions’
What an offer
Russia “Dah we kill less old ladies and kiddies you give us a city for our kindness”
Date: 30/03/2022 12:02:24
From: dv
ID: 1866876
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Can’t believe DJT is still asking Putin for election help. Read the room, man.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/29/politics/trump-putin-hunter-biden/index.html
Washington (CNN)In a new interview published Tuesday, former President Donald Trump called on Russian President Vladimir Putin to release any damaging information he has about the Biden family, in a brazen request for domestic political assistance from America’s top adversary.
It’s the latest example of Trump’s willingness to solicit and embrace domestic political help from foreign powers — even from Putin, who is currently overseeing a bloody war against Ukraine.
In an interview with JustTheNews, Trump pushed an unproven claim about Hunter Biden’s business dealings in Russia, and asked Putin to release any information that he might have about the situation. It’s not clear that any material exists, or if the Kremlin has access to it.
Date: 30/03/2022 14:53:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1866955
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 30/03/2022 15:13:54
From: Michael V
ID: 1866964
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukraine ambassador tells UN Security Council ‘demilitarisation of Russia’ is underway.
Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya has told the UN Security Council that “the demilitarisation of Russia is underway”, the Associated Press is reporting.
Since the beginning of the invasion, Mr Kyslytsya said the Russian occupiers had lost more than 17,000 military personnel, over 1,700 armoured vehicles and almost 600 tanks.
He also said Russia has lost 300 artillery systems, 127 planes and 129 helicopters, almost 100 rocket launchers, 54 air defence systems and seven ships.
Mr Kyslytsya said that was “an unprecedented blow to Moscow, where the numbers of Soviet losses in Afghanistan pale in comparison.”
The figures cannot be independently verified.
Earlier, Russia announced it would significantly scale back military operations near Kyiv and Chernihiv as negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegates were held in Istanbul.
A second round of talks are expected to resume in Turkey later today.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-30/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-/100950004
Date: 30/03/2022 15:39:32
From: dv
ID: 1866978
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Ukraine ambassador tells UN Security Council ‘demilitarisation of Russia’ is underway.
Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya has told the UN Security Council that “the demilitarisation of Russia is underway”, the Associated Press is reporting.
Since the beginning of the invasion, Mr Kyslytsya said the Russian occupiers had lost more than 17,000 military personnel, over 1,700 armoured vehicles and almost 600 tanks.
He also said Russia has lost 300 artillery systems, 127 planes and 129 helicopters, almost 100 rocket launchers, 54 air defence systems and seven ships.
Mr Kyslytsya said that was “an unprecedented blow to Moscow, where the numbers of Soviet losses in Afghanistan pale in comparison.”
The figures cannot be independently verified.
Earlier, Russia announced it would significantly scale back military operations near Kyiv and Chernihiv as negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegates were held in Istanbul.
A second round of talks are expected to resume in Turkey later today.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-30/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-/100950004
Heh
Date: 30/03/2022 15:51:52
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1866983
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Michael V said:
Ukraine ambassador tells UN Security Council ‘demilitarisation of Russia’ is underway.
Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya has told the UN Security Council that “the demilitarisation of Russia is underway”, the Associated Press is reporting.
Since the beginning of the invasion, Mr Kyslytsya said the Russian occupiers had lost more than 17,000 military personnel, over 1,700 armoured vehicles and almost 600 tanks.
He also said Russia has lost 300 artillery systems, 127 planes and 129 helicopters, almost 100 rocket launchers, 54 air defence systems and seven ships.
Mr Kyslytsya said that was “an unprecedented blow to Moscow, where the numbers of Soviet losses in Afghanistan pale in comparison.”
The figures cannot be independently verified.
Earlier, Russia announced it would significantly scale back military operations near Kyiv and Chernihiv as negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegates were held in Istanbul.
A second round of talks are expected to resume in Turkey later today.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-30/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-/100950004
Heh
honestly from here it would have seemed that was the plan all along
Date: 30/03/2022 15:57:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1866988
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
Michael V said:
Ukraine ambassador tells UN Security Council ‘demilitarisation of Russia’ is underway.
Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya has told the UN Security Council that “the demilitarisation of Russia is underway”, the Associated Press is reporting.
Since the beginning of the invasion, Mr Kyslytsya said the Russian occupiers had lost more than 17,000 military personnel, over 1,700 armoured vehicles and almost 600 tanks.
He also said Russia has lost 300 artillery systems, 127 planes and 129 helicopters, almost 100 rocket launchers, 54 air defence systems and seven ships.
Mr Kyslytsya said that was “an unprecedented blow to Moscow, where the numbers of Soviet losses in Afghanistan pale in comparison.”
The figures cannot be independently verified.
Earlier, Russia announced it would significantly scale back military operations near Kyiv and Chernihiv as negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegates were held in Istanbul.
A second round of talks are expected to resume in Turkey later today.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-30/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-/100950004
Heh
THis is what is said few days back.
Someone is steadily getting demiltarised, but it doesn’t seem to be Ukraine.
Date: 30/03/2022 16:05:10
From: Cymek
ID: 1866991
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
Michael V said:
Ukraine ambassador tells UN Security Council ‘demilitarisation of Russia’ is underway.
Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya has told the UN Security Council that “the demilitarisation of Russia is underway”, the Associated Press is reporting.
Since the beginning of the invasion, Mr Kyslytsya said the Russian occupiers had lost more than 17,000 military personnel, over 1,700 armoured vehicles and almost 600 tanks.
He also said Russia has lost 300 artillery systems, 127 planes and 129 helicopters, almost 100 rocket launchers, 54 air defence systems and seven ships.
Mr Kyslytsya said that was “an unprecedented blow to Moscow, where the numbers of Soviet losses in Afghanistan pale in comparison.”
The figures cannot be independently verified.
Earlier, Russia announced it would significantly scale back military operations near Kyiv and Chernihiv as negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegates were held in Istanbul.
A second round of talks are expected to resume in Turkey later today.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-30/ukraine-russia-live-war-updates-/100950004
Heh
THis is what is said few days back.
Someone is steadily getting demiltarised, but it doesn’t seem to be Ukraine.
I’m assuming also that Ukraine isn’t expected to pay back the cost of the weapons given to them.
Read somewhere they wanted compensation of 600 plus billion for damages
Date: 30/03/2022 16:05:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1866992
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
SCIENCE said:
honestly from here it would have seemed that was the plan all along
No, i think that the Russians really believed it would be a steam-roller operation, three days to the Polish border, a week at the outside.
I reckon that they fell victim to believing their own publicity.
Really, this has happened to the US as well – believing your intelligence sources too readily. It happened to them in Somalia, it happened in Afghanistan, it happened in other places.
They might have been good information sources once, and it became easy to trust what they said, but there’s always a risk with intelligence info that they’re feeding you just what they think you want to hear. You like what they’re telling you, so you keep paying them, and they keep giving you the good news.
Some of this probably happened to the Russians. Their assets inside Ukraine telling them that there’s widespread disaffection with the current government, people will welcome the restoration of strong authority from Moscow, the whole thing is a house of cards etc. Music to the ears of your paymasters in Moscow.
So, the Russians decide to stroll on in and install new management. That’s when the they learn how it really is.
Date: 30/03/2022 16:08:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1866994
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
honestly from here it would have seemed that was the plan all along
No, i think that the Russians really believed it would be a steam-roller operation, three days to the Polish border, a week at the outside.
I reckon that they fell victim to believing their own publicity.
Really, this has happened to the US as well – believing your intelligence sources too readily. It happened to them in Somalia, it happened in Afghanistan, it happened in other places.
They might have been good information sources once, and it became easy to trust what they said, but there’s always a risk with intelligence info that they’re feeding you just what they think you want to hear. You like what they’re telling you, so you keep paying them, and they keep giving you the good news.
Some of this probably happened to the Russians. Their assets inside Ukraine telling them that there’s widespread disaffection with the current government, people will welcome the restoration of strong authority from Moscow, the whole thing is a house of cards etc. Music to the ears of your paymasters in Moscow.
So, the Russians decide to stroll on in and install new management. That’s when the they learn how it really is.
Are either of them good militarily, or used to using overwhelming firepower and taking on poorly equipped insurgents who still inflict serious losses on them.
Date: 30/03/2022 16:12:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1866998
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Additionally, the Russians probably believed that their military had far better capability than it really did.
The Russian system has never thought well of anyone who reported that their part of the organisation is having problems. So, commanders all the way from the bottom to the top of the ladder were ‘incetivised’ to report that everything was A-OK, hunk-dory, and just swell with their part of the team, no shortages, defects, or inadequacies here, boss.
And they just had to hope that they got promoted/transferred before anyone found out what things were really like.
Date: 30/03/2022 16:14:06
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867000
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
honestly from here it would have seemed that was the plan all along
No, i think that the Russians really believed it would be a steam-roller operation, three days to the Polish border, a week at the outside.
I reckon that they fell victim to believing their own publicity.
Really, this has happened to the US as well – believing your intelligence sources too readily. It happened to them in Somalia, it happened in Afghanistan, it happened in other places.
They might have been good information sources once, and it became easy to trust what they said, but there’s always a risk with intelligence info that they’re feeding you just what they think you want to hear. You like what they’re telling you, so you keep paying them, and they keep giving you the good news.
Some of this probably happened to the Russians. Their assets inside Ukraine telling them that there’s widespread disaffection with the current government, people will welcome the restoration of strong authority from Moscow, the whole thing is a house of cards etc. Music to the ears of your paymasters in Moscow.
So, the Russians decide to stroll on in and install new management. That’s when the they learn how it really is.
Fascists like Putin rely on a policy of feeding their public, and the world at large, with a constant stream of lies.
The trouble with such disdain for the truth is that eventually, they tend to forget that they themselves do need to keep track of reality, in order to control what’s really going on.
But all such tyrants seem to end up fervently believing their own lies.
Date: 30/03/2022 17:20:32
From: dv
ID: 1867018
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://youtu.be/IN3LypteJmY
Former Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough: “Who cares what Putin thinks? It’s time for Putin to worry about what we think.”
Date: 30/03/2022 17:25:28
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1867020
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia has accused some people of the Ukraine of being Nazis. This being a major part of their reason for their “special military action” in Ukraine.
I looked into this. Some are. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Ukraine
“In 1991, Svoboda was founded as the Social-National Party of Ukraine. The party combined radical nationalism and neo-Nazi features.”
“the neo-Nazi Svoboda party won 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and placed second in Lviv.”
“The topic of Ukrainian nationalism and its alleged relationship to neo-Nazism came to the fore in polemics about the more radical elements involved in the Euromaidan protests and subsequent Russo-Ukrainian War from 2013 onward. Some Russian, Latin American, U.S. and Israeli media have attempted to portray the Ukrainian nationalists in the conflict as neo-Nazi. The main Ukrainian organisations involved with a neo-Banderaite legacy are Right Sector, Svoboda and Azov Battalion. The persons regarded as Ukraine’s national heroes—Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych or Dmytro Klyachkivsky of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)—at times supported and then opposed the presence of the Third Reich in Ukraine.”
“In June 2015, Democratic Representative John Conyers and his Republican colleague Ted Yoho offered bipartisan amendments to block the U.S. military training of Ukraine’s Azov Battalion—called a neo-Nazi paramilitary militia. Andriy Biletsky, the head of the ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi political groups Social-National Assembly and Patriots of Ukraine, has been commander of the Azov Battalion. Azov Battalion of the Ukrainian National Guard is fighting pro-Russian separatists in the War in Donbass. Some members of the battalion are openly white supremacists.”
I’m not totally convinced, however. There are also neo-Nazi organisations in other countries, notably:
My personal opinion is that the presence of neo-Nazis in the Ukraine is not necessarily of more importance than it is in other countries. The neo-Nazi movement spread to all eastern block countries after the break-up of the USSR in 1990. And it spread throughout the Balkan states after the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991 and 1992. It was already in Croatia, and earlier back in Italy, France, Spain.
No one mentions neo-Nazis in the USA – but what do you want to bet?
Are there extreme right-wingers in the USA?
Date: 30/03/2022 17:32:10
From: Cymek
ID: 1867022
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Russia has accused some people of the Ukraine of being Nazis. This being a major part of their reason for their “special military action” in Ukraine.
I looked into this. Some are. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Ukraine
“In 1991, Svoboda was founded as the Social-National Party of Ukraine. The party combined radical nationalism and neo-Nazi features.”
“the neo-Nazi Svoboda party won 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and placed second in Lviv.”
“The topic of Ukrainian nationalism and its alleged relationship to neo-Nazism came to the fore in polemics about the more radical elements involved in the Euromaidan protests and subsequent Russo-Ukrainian War from 2013 onward. Some Russian, Latin American, U.S. and Israeli media have attempted to portray the Ukrainian nationalists in the conflict as neo-Nazi. The main Ukrainian organisations involved with a neo-Banderaite legacy are Right Sector, Svoboda and Azov Battalion. The persons regarded as Ukraine’s national heroes—Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych or Dmytro Klyachkivsky of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)—at times supported and then opposed the presence of the Third Reich in Ukraine.”
“In June 2015, Democratic Representative John Conyers and his Republican colleague Ted Yoho offered bipartisan amendments to block the U.S. military training of Ukraine’s Azov Battalion—called a neo-Nazi paramilitary militia. Andriy Biletsky, the head of the ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi political groups Social-National Assembly and Patriots of Ukraine, has been commander of the Azov Battalion. Azov Battalion of the Ukrainian National Guard is fighting pro-Russian separatists in the War in Donbass. Some members of the battalion are openly white supremacists.”
I’m not totally convinced, however. There are also neo-Nazi organisations in other countries, notably:
My personal opinion is that the presence of neo-Nazis in the Ukraine is not necessarily of more importance than it is in other countries. The neo-Nazi movement spread to all eastern block countries after the break-up of the USSR in 1990. And it spread throughout the Balkan states after the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991 and 1992. It was already in Croatia, and earlier back in Italy, France, Spain.
No one mentions neo-Nazis in the USA – but what do you want to bet?
Are there extreme right-wingers in the USA?
Aren’t some of them in the guise of Trump supporters.
Nazism is quite specific you could pretty much believe in what they thought and did, but not use their symbolism or even have an affinity with them.
I imagine the Ukraine does have some people like that but like you said who doesn’t
Date: 30/03/2022 17:35:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867024
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Russia has accused some people of the Ukraine of being Nazis. This being a major part of their reason for their “special military action” in Ukraine.
I looked into this. Some are. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Ukraine
“In 1991, Svoboda was founded as the Social-National Party of Ukraine. The party combined radical nationalism and neo-Nazi features.”
“the neo-Nazi Svoboda party won 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and placed second in Lviv.”
“The topic of Ukrainian nationalism and its alleged relationship to neo-Nazism came to the fore in polemics about the more radical elements involved in the Euromaidan protests and subsequent Russo-Ukrainian War from 2013 onward. Some Russian, Latin American, U.S. and Israeli media have attempted to portray the Ukrainian nationalists in the conflict as neo-Nazi. The main Ukrainian organisations involved with a neo-Banderaite legacy are Right Sector, Svoboda and Azov Battalion. The persons regarded as Ukraine’s national heroes—Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych or Dmytro Klyachkivsky of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)—at times supported and then opposed the presence of the Third Reich in Ukraine.”
“In June 2015, Democratic Representative John Conyers and his Republican colleague Ted Yoho offered bipartisan amendments to block the U.S. military training of Ukraine’s Azov Battalion—called a neo-Nazi paramilitary militia. Andriy Biletsky, the head of the ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi political groups Social-National Assembly and Patriots of Ukraine, has been commander of the Azov Battalion. Azov Battalion of the Ukrainian National Guard is fighting pro-Russian separatists in the War in Donbass. Some members of the battalion are openly white supremacists.”
I’m not totally convinced, however. There are also neo-Nazi organisations in other countries, notably:
My personal opinion is that the presence of neo-Nazis in the Ukraine is not necessarily of more importance than it is in other countries. The neo-Nazi movement spread to all eastern block countries after the break-up of the USSR in 1990. And it spread throughout the Balkan states after the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991 and 1992. It was already in Croatia, and earlier back in Italy, France, Spain.
No one mentions neo-Nazis in the USA – but what do you want to bet?
Are there extreme right-wingers in the USA?
There are some fascists in Ukraine, as there are in the USA, Australia and every other country.
But of the relevant countries in this conflict, only one – Russia – actually has a fascist leader and fascist government.
Date: 30/03/2022 17:37:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1867025
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
mollwollfumble said:
Russia has accused some people of the Ukraine of being Nazis. This being a major part of their reason for their “special military action” in Ukraine.
I looked into this. Some are. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Ukraine
“In 1991, Svoboda was founded as the Social-National Party of Ukraine. The party combined radical nationalism and neo-Nazi features.”
“the neo-Nazi Svoboda party won 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and placed second in Lviv.”
“The topic of Ukrainian nationalism and its alleged relationship to neo-Nazism came to the fore in polemics about the more radical elements involved in the Euromaidan protests and subsequent Russo-Ukrainian War from 2013 onward. Some Russian, Latin American, U.S. and Israeli media have attempted to portray the Ukrainian nationalists in the conflict as neo-Nazi. The main Ukrainian organisations involved with a neo-Banderaite legacy are Right Sector, Svoboda and Azov Battalion. The persons regarded as Ukraine’s national heroes—Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych or Dmytro Klyachkivsky of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)—at times supported and then opposed the presence of the Third Reich in Ukraine.”
“In June 2015, Democratic Representative John Conyers and his Republican colleague Ted Yoho offered bipartisan amendments to block the U.S. military training of Ukraine’s Azov Battalion—called a neo-Nazi paramilitary militia. Andriy Biletsky, the head of the ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi political groups Social-National Assembly and Patriots of Ukraine, has been commander of the Azov Battalion. Azov Battalion of the Ukrainian National Guard is fighting pro-Russian separatists in the War in Donbass. Some members of the battalion are openly white supremacists.”
I’m not totally convinced, however. There are also neo-Nazi organisations in other countries, notably:
My personal opinion is that the presence of neo-Nazis in the Ukraine is not necessarily of more importance than it is in other countries. The neo-Nazi movement spread to all eastern block countries after the break-up of the USSR in 1990. And it spread throughout the Balkan states after the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991 and 1992. It was already in Croatia, and earlier back in Italy, France, Spain.
No one mentions neo-Nazis in the USA – but what do you want to bet?
Are there extreme right-wingers in the USA?
Aren’t some of them in the guise of Trump supporters.
Nazism is quite specific you could pretty much believe in what they thought and did, but not use their symbolism or even have an affinity with them.
I imagine the Ukraine does have some people like that but like you said who doesn’t
I remember back in the 80’s the USA had the Illinois Nazis, gave people the blues brother
Date: 30/03/2022 17:47:37
From: Neophyte
ID: 1867028
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
“Really, this has happened to the US as well – believing your intelligence sources too readily. It happened to them in Somalia, it happened in Afghanistan, it happened in other places.”
I recall reading once that in 1970 the US military chiefs asked the RAND Corporation to investigate the Vietnam war, with a view to estimating when it would end. The research was done, and the RAND people came back to say that with all things as they were with the US, it would all be over by mid-1968.
Date: 30/03/2022 17:49:50
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867029
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Long before this war, Putin’s Russia was being identified as a fascist or proto-fascist state by respected observers, including Russian academics such as Vladislav Inozemtsev:
Putin’s Russia: A Moderate Fascist State
By standard scholarly definition, Russia today is not an illiberal democracy: It is an early-stage fascist state.
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/01/23/putins-russia-a-moderate-fascist-state/
Date: 30/03/2022 17:52:24
From: Cymek
ID: 1867031
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Long before this war, Putin’s Russia was being identified as a fascist or proto-fascist state by respected observers, including Russian academics such as Vladislav Inozemtsev:
Putin’s Russia: A Moderate Fascist State
By standard scholarly definition, Russia today is not an illiberal democracy: It is an early-stage fascist state.
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/01/23/putins-russia-a-moderate-fascist-state/
Communism could easily become fascism
Date: 30/03/2022 18:07:40
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867032
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Amusing video shows a Russian unit heading off without two of their troops, who unsuccessfully try to catch up:
Russians forgot their own soldiers
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarReports/comments/trf29e/russians_forgot_their_own_soldiers/
Date: 30/03/2022 18:20:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867033
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Amusing video shows a Russian unit heading off without two of their troops, who unsuccessfully try to catch up:
Russians forgot their own soldiers
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarReports/comments/trf29e/russians_forgot_their_own_soldiers/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY
Date: 30/03/2022 18:27:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867034
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Bubblecar said:
Long before this war, Putin’s Russia was being identified as a fascist or proto-fascist state by respected observers, including Russian academics such as Vladislav Inozemtsev:
Putin’s Russia: A Moderate Fascist State
By standard scholarly definition, Russia today is not an illiberal democracy: It is an early-stage fascist state.
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/01/23/putins-russia-a-moderate-fascist-state/
Communism could easily become fascism
Either or ism?
Date: 30/03/2022 18:28:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867035
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Long before this war, Putin’s Russia was being identified as a fascist or proto-fascist state by respected observers, including Russian academics such as Vladislav Inozemtsev:
Putin’s Russia: A Moderate Fascist State
By standard scholarly definition, Russia today is not an illiberal democracy: It is an early-stage fascist state.
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/01/23/putins-russia-a-moderate-fascist-state/
You’ll get no argument from me on this issue.
Date: 30/03/2022 18:28:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867036
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Neophyte said:
“Really, this has happened to the US as well – believing your intelligence sources too readily. It happened to them in Somalia, it happened in Afghanistan, it happened in other places.”
I recall reading once that in 1970 the US military chiefs asked the RAND Corporation to investigate the Vietnam war, with a view to estimating when it would end. The research was done, and the RAND people came back to say that with all things as they were with the US, it would all be over by mid-1968.
No argument here either.
Date: 30/03/2022 18:30:20
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867038
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
mollwollfumble said:
Russia has accused some people of the Ukraine of being Nazis. This being a major part of their reason for their “special military action” in Ukraine.
I looked into this. Some are. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Ukraine
“In 1991, Svoboda was founded as the Social-National Party of Ukraine. The party combined radical nationalism and neo-Nazi features.”
“the neo-Nazi Svoboda party won 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and placed second in Lviv.”
“The topic of Ukrainian nationalism and its alleged relationship to neo-Nazism came to the fore in polemics about the more radical elements involved in the Euromaidan protests and subsequent Russo-Ukrainian War from 2013 onward. Some Russian, Latin American, U.S. and Israeli media have attempted to portray the Ukrainian nationalists in the conflict as neo-Nazi. The main Ukrainian organisations involved with a neo-Banderaite legacy are Right Sector, Svoboda and Azov Battalion. The persons regarded as Ukraine’s national heroes—Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych or Dmytro Klyachkivsky of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)—at times supported and then opposed the presence of the Third Reich in Ukraine.”
“In June 2015, Democratic Representative John Conyers and his Republican colleague Ted Yoho offered bipartisan amendments to block the U.S. military training of Ukraine’s Azov Battalion—called a neo-Nazi paramilitary militia. Andriy Biletsky, the head of the ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi political groups Social-National Assembly and Patriots of Ukraine, has been commander of the Azov Battalion. Azov Battalion of the Ukrainian National Guard is fighting pro-Russian separatists in the War in Donbass. Some members of the battalion are openly white supremacists.”
I’m not totally convinced, however. There are also neo-Nazi organisations in other countries, notably:
My personal opinion is that the presence of neo-Nazis in the Ukraine is not necessarily of more importance than it is in other countries. The neo-Nazi movement spread to all eastern block countries after the break-up of the USSR in 1990. And it spread throughout the Balkan states after the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991 and 1992. It was already in Croatia, and earlier back in Italy, France, Spain.
No one mentions neo-Nazis in the USA – but what do you want to bet?
Are there extreme right-wingers in the USA?
There are some fascists in Ukraine, as there are in the USA, Australia and every other country.
But of the relevant countries in this conflict, only one – Russia – actually has a fascist leader and fascist government.
Let us pray he keeps a cyanide pill handy.
Date: 30/03/2022 18:34:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867041
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Russia has accused some people of the Ukraine of being Nazis. This being a major part of their reason for their “special military action” in Ukraine.
No one mentions neo-Nazis in the USA – but what do you want to bet?
Are there extreme right-wingers in the USA?
Maybe about 20%?
Date: 30/03/2022 18:35:57
From: roughbarked
ID: 1867042
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
https://youtu.be/IN3LypteJmY
Former Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough: “Who cares what Putin thinks? It’s time for Putin to worry about what we think.”
Maybe these thoughts are right now, passing through his previously fixated brainspace?
Date: 30/03/2022 18:46:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1867047
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 30/03/2022 18:48:28
From: Michael V
ID: 1867050
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:

Heh!
Date: 30/03/2022 18:50:23
From: Cymek
ID: 1867051
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:

Heh!
Or tell John Wick, Putin killed your dog
Date: 30/03/2022 18:55:40
From: Michael V
ID: 1867053
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:

Heh!
Or tell John Wick, Putin killed your dog
I’m guessing that’s a film reference, not a recent events cross-reference.
Date: 30/03/2022 19:47:55
From: esselte
ID: 1867085
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:

Heh!
Or tell John Wick, Putin killed your dog
Putin killed John wicks dog and kidnapped Liam Neesons daughter.
Dude is so screwed.
Date: 30/03/2022 21:09:06
From: dv
ID: 1867125
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 30/03/2022 21:47:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867138
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
Cymek said:
Michael V said:
captain_spalding said:

Heh!
Or tell John Wick, Putin killed your dog
I’m guessing that’s a film reference, not a recent events cross-reference.
poisoned by toxic masculinity
Date: 30/03/2022 23:28:22
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867149
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Russia is losing so much equipment in Ukraine that weapons monitors can’t keep up
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-military-equipment-losses-b2046501.html
Date: 31/03/2022 00:13:12
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867156
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
Bubblecar said:
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:
honestly from here it would have seemed that was the plan all along
No, i think that the Russians really believed it would be a steam-roller operation, three days to the Polish border, a week at the outside.
I reckon that they fell victim to believing their own publicity.
Really, this has happened to the US as well – believing your intelligence sources too readily. It happened to them in Somalia, it happened in Afghanistan, it happened in other places.
They might have been good information sources once, and it became easy to trust what they said, but there’s always a risk with intelligence info that they’re feeding you just what they think you want to hear. You like what they’re telling you, so you keep paying them, and they keep giving you the good news.
Some of this probably happened to the Russians. Their assets inside Ukraine telling them that there’s widespread disaffection with the current government, people will welcome the restoration of strong authority from Moscow, the whole thing is a house of cards etc. Music to the ears of your paymasters in Moscow.
So, the Russians decide to stroll on in and install new management. That’s when the they learn how it really is.
Fascists like Putin rely on a policy of feeding their public, and the world at large, with a constant stream of lies.
The trouble with such disdain for the truth is that eventually, they tend to forget that they themselves do need to keep track of reality, in order to control what’s really going on.
But all such tyrants seem to end up fervently believing their own lies.
Russia is losing so much equipment in Ukraine that weapons monitors can’t keep up
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-military-equipment-losses-b2046501.html
see here’s the thing, if you’re a chaos agent and you actually don’t care all that much about Mother Russia, then fucking up a generation of people in a big country and “losing” a whole heap of weapons into the region would be pretty up there
Date: 31/03/2022 02:40:21
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1867198
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Let’s talk about Trump, Ukraine, and Russia….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH2bw3GfMx4
Most of you traded your country for a red hat.
Date: 31/03/2022 08:28:13
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1867234
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Has this been posted yet??
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/russia-nuclear-swedish-airspace-weapons-1548387
Date: 31/03/2022 09:12:31
From: Michael V
ID: 1867239
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
diddly-squat said:
Has this been posted yet??
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/russia-nuclear-swedish-airspace-weapons-1548387
Paywall. Precis, please.
Date: 31/03/2022 09:59:13
From: dv
ID: 1867249
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/30/opinions/orban-hungary-election-putin-eu-ben-ghiat/index.html
Victor Orban, Putin’s greatest ally in the EU, tries to walk the line ahead of the Hungarian elections.
Date: 31/03/2022 10:05:14
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1867252
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Michael V said:
diddly-squat said:
Has this been posted yet??
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/russia-nuclear-swedish-airspace-weapons-1548387
Paywall. Precis, please.
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-bombers-armed-with-nuclear-warheads-violated-eu-air-space-sweden-says/news-story/9d09f41d3d12b16a6c00d101f3a1e143
Russian planes entered Swedish airspace on the 2nd of March, and it has just been revealed that two of them were carrying nukes.
Date: 31/03/2022 11:14:22
From: Cymek
ID: 1867295
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk calls for Russia to withdraw from the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone area and calls for Russian troops occupying the former nuclear plant to pull out.
Pulling out isn’t a particular safe method
Date: 31/03/2022 11:16:55
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867298
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk calls for Russia to withdraw from the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone area and calls for Russian troops occupying the former nuclear plant to pull out.
Pulling out isn’t a particular safe method
That’s right, they should do what they did the first time Chernobyl blew it, ram those control rods in deep ¡
Date: 31/03/2022 12:19:22
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1867317
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
not saying it’s going through but
India’s government is considering a proposal from Russia to use a system developed by the Russian central bank for bilateral payments, according to people with knowledge of the matter, as the Asian nation seeks to buy oil and weapons from the sanctions-hit country.
you do have to wonder if countries in and around ASIA might have reason to distrust simply leaving the world future to allegedly formerly imperialistic Eurocentric power sharing
Date: 31/03/2022 13:08:08
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1867338
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:13:45
From: Cymek
ID: 1867341
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
Bluff or I imagine the Ukrainians would like it to stop before then entire country is destroyed even if they are getting payback.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:16:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1867342
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
No-one told him because, in the Russian system, if you tell your boss that your outfit is having problems, it’s a one-way ticket to a weather hut on the Kamchatka Pensinsula, at the very least. You carry the can, even if the circumstances are beyond your control.
So, everyone reports that things are just peachy in my part of the service, thanks for asking.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:16:53
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1867343
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
The eastern occupied region is exactly what was already part of Russia way back in the year 1522, and is full of ethnic Russians.
The occupation of Mariupol is only needed to provide safe access to Russian Crimea.
It may be that Russia has no desire to conquer more.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:16:54
From: Cymek
ID: 1867344
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
Bluff or I imagine the Ukrainians would like it to stop before then entire country is destroyed even if they are getting payback.
In regards to Putin it seems very similar to the delusion Hitler had that he’s was a competent military planner and everyone is loath to mention reality that’s it not going that great
Date: 31/03/2022 13:17:47
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1867345
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
Bluff or I imagine the Ukrainians would like it to stop before then entire country is destroyed even if they are getting payback.
It seems his staff don’t want to tell him how badly things are going.
Some Russian officers are committing suicide, some of Putins advisers are leaving the country.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:24:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1867347
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
The eastern occupied region is exactly what was already part of Russia way back in the year 1522, and is full of ethnic Russians.
The occupation of Mariupol is only needed to provide safe access to Russian Crimea.
It may be that Russia has no desire to conquer more.
Yes it has occurred to me.
Yes, its looking that way now.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:31:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1867348
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tau.Neutrino said:
mollwollfumble said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putins way out….
No one told me how under forming my miliary was….
How can the Russians negotiate with the Ukrainians when they don’t know how their own military is performing.
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
The eastern occupied region is exactly what was already part of Russia way back in the year 1522, and is full of ethnic Russians.
The occupation of Mariupol is only needed to provide safe access to Russian Crimea.
It may be that Russia has no desire to conquer more.
Yes it has occurred to me.
Yes, its looking that way now.
I suggest that, had it not been for the stiff resistance offered by the Ukrainians, the Russians would have been quite happy to roll right up to the Polish, Moldovan, and Romanian borders.
Their minimum goals may have been the gains that they currently have, but they would have not been at all upset to have taken the whole country if things had gone as easily as they kidded themselves they would.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:35:59
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1867350
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
mollwollfumble said:
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
The eastern occupied region is exactly what was already part of Russia way back in the year 1522, and is full of ethnic Russians.
The occupation of Mariupol is only needed to provide safe access to Russian Crimea.
It may be that Russia has no desire to conquer more.
Yes it has occurred to me.
Yes, its looking that way now.
I suggest that, had it not been for the stiff resistance offered by the Ukrainians, the Russians would have been quite happy to roll right up to the Polish, Moldovan, and Romanian borders.
Their minimum goals may have been the gains that they currently have, but they would have not been at all upset to have taken the whole country if things had gone as easily as they kidded themselves they would.
Point of order:
The Russians? More Putin and his coterie of warmongers. The Russian people and the average Russian soldier have had very little say in the matter.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:39:07
From: Cymek
ID: 1867353
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Witty Rejoinder said:
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Yes it has occurred to me.
Yes, its looking that way now.
I suggest that, had it not been for the stiff resistance offered by the Ukrainians, the Russians would have been quite happy to roll right up to the Polish, Moldovan, and Romanian borders.
Their minimum goals may have been the gains that they currently have, but they would have not been at all upset to have taken the whole country if things had gone as easily as they kidded themselves they would.
Point of order:
The Russians? More Putin and his coterie of warmongers. The Russian people and the average Russian soldier have had very little say in the matter.
I said before that Putin wishes to restore the territory of the USSR, I imagine he feels all the independent states are traitors, doesn’t matter Russia has little to offer them.
Date: 31/03/2022 13:42:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1867356
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
mollwollfumble said:
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
The eastern occupied region is exactly what was already part of Russia way back in the year 1522, and is full of ethnic Russians.
The occupation of Mariupol is only needed to provide safe access to Russian Crimea.
It may be that Russia has no desire to conquer more.
Yes it has occurred to me.
Yes, its looking that way now.
I suggest that, had it not been for the stiff resistance offered by the Ukrainians, the Russians would have been quite happy to roll right up to the Polish, Moldovan, and Romanian borders.
Their minimum goals may have been the gains that they currently have, but they would have not been at all upset to have taken the whole country if things had gone as easily as they kidded themselves they would.
Agree.
The Russians have had failures across nearly every level, communications, stolen equipment, poorly trained soldiers, low morale…
The Ukrainians appear to be much better trained, they bury their dead properly, have much better respect.
Hopefully things might cool down.
Date: 31/03/2022 15:41:18
From: dv
ID: 1867388
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
mollwollfumble said:
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
Putin has stated openly that it was his intention to reincorporate Ukraine into Russia multiple times, including as recently as last year. So, no. Believe them when they tell you what they are.
Date: 31/03/2022 15:51:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1867389
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
dv said:
mollwollfumble said:
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
Putin has stated openly that it was his intention to reincorporate Ukraine into Russia multiple times, including as recently as last year. So, no. Believe them when they tell you what they are.
Moll seems to have some persistent software virus assuring him: Mr Putin is a nice man.
Whereas the true record reveals Putin as the worst kind of psycho narcissist butcher.
Date: 31/03/2022 15:52:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1867390
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
mollwollfumble said:
Has it occurred to you that Russia never had any ambition to expand the occupied region beyond what it already is?
Putin has stated openly that it was his intention to reincorporate Ukraine into Russia multiple times, including as recently as last year. So, no. Believe them when they tell you what they are.
Moll seems to have some persistent software virus assuring him: Mr Putin is a nice man.
Whereas the true record reveals Putin as the worst kind of psycho narcissist butcher.
Putin is putin him on
Date: 31/03/2022 16:23:30
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1867399
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Date: 31/03/2022 16:32:01
From: Cymek
ID: 1867400
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:

Wonder if they are aware of Chernobyl like we are
Date: 31/03/2022 16:33:19
From: Tamb
ID: 1867401
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:

They care so little for their own people how badly do you think they’ll treat the people from the Ukraine?
Date: 31/03/2022 16:36:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1867403
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
PermeateFree said:

They care so little for their own people how badly do you think they’ll treat the people from the Ukraine?
Bombing hospitals and child care centres like they have done.
Date: 31/03/2022 16:39:11
From: Tamb
ID: 1867404
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
PermeateFree said:

Wonder if they are aware of Chernobyl like we are
Ukraine was part of Russia until 1991. The Chernobyl explosion was in 1986.
Date: 31/03/2022 16:41:33
From: Cymek
ID: 1867406
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Cymek said:
PermeateFree said:

Wonder if they are aware of Chernobyl like we are
Ukraine was part of Russia until 1991. The Chernobyl explosion was in 1986.
Yes but were the general Russian public aware of it, the Ukrainians would be as they live there.
I’d assume they would it’s old news perhaps like you said they just didn’t care about the soldiers and said it’s chill bro when asked
Date: 31/03/2022 16:45:03
From: Tamb
ID: 1867408
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tamb said:
Cymek said:
Wonder if they are aware of Chernobyl like we are
Ukraine was part of Russia until 1991. The Chernobyl explosion was in 1986.
Yes but were the general Russian public aware of it, the Ukrainians would be as they live there.
I’d assume they would it’s old news perhaps like you said they just didn’t care about the soldiers and said it’s chill bro when asked
The authorities were aware as they conducted the investigation into the explosion. The media were/are heavily controlled though.
Date: 31/03/2022 16:48:49
From: Cymek
ID: 1867409
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Tamb said:
Cymek said:
Tamb said:
Ukraine was part of Russia until 1991. The Chernobyl explosion was in 1986.
Yes but were the general Russian public aware of it, the Ukrainians would be as they live there.
I’d assume they would it’s old news perhaps like you said they just didn’t care about the soldiers and said it’s chill bro when asked
The authorities were aware as they conducted the investigation into the explosion. The media were/are heavily controlled though.
Yeah hard to imagine not knowing about history in the country it occurred in but that’s authority for you.
Can’t be shown to be weak.
Did you watch the series ?
Date: 31/03/2022 16:51:34
From: Tamb
ID: 1867410
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Cymek said:
Tamb said:
Cymek said:
Yes but were the general Russian public aware of it, the Ukrainians would be as they live there.
I’d assume they would it’s old news perhaps like you said they just didn’t care about the soldiers and said it’s chill bro when asked
The authorities were aware as they conducted the investigation into the explosion. The media were/are heavily controlled though.
Yeah hard to imagine not knowing about history in the country it occurred in but that’s authority for you.
Can’t be shown to be weak.
Did you watch the series ?
No But I was in Russia in the early 80s & again in ’06.
Date: 31/03/2022 16:53:37
From: Michael V
ID: 1867411
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:

Heck!
Date: 31/03/2022 22:28:53
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1867524
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
‘The Dots Were All There. We Just Couldn’t Connect Them.’
One of the last American journalists in Moscow recounts how she — and her dog — escaped Russia as Putin’s new iron curtain fell.
By MICHELE A. BERDY
03/27/2022 06:55 AM EDT
Michele A. Berdy is a writer and editor at The Moscow Times. She has lived in Moscow since 1978.
The day before Russia launched its war against Ukraine, I was in the seaside city of Sochi in southern Russia, not far from the Ukrainian border, attending an arts festival and enjoying a break from the dark and snowy Moscow winter among palm trees and verdant hillsides.
Sochi is on the Black Sea, as is Ukraine. My colleagues and I had been talking for months about aerial photographs that showed a build-up of troops near Russia’s borders with Ukraine, apparently threatening a new invasion. Was it preparation or intimidation? Nothing seemed to be happening, even as the U.S. started warning of an imminent attack.
I work at The Moscow Times, an independent newspaper founded in 1992 after the dissolution of the Soviet Union that publishes online in both English and Russian. As the paper’s arts editor, I was planning to attend the Sochi Winter International Arts Festival beginning on February 16. A few days before I was to leave, I asked my editor if I should go — would it be safe for me to be on the Black Sea coast if war broke out?
“You’ll be in a group,” she said, “and I don’t think it will start.” I said, “I don’t either, but the thing is — I didn’t think Russia would annex Crimea in 2014.” She said, “I didn’t think they’d invade Georgia in 2008.”
I recognize now that the dots were all there. We just couldn’t connect them. We couldn’t imagine a full-scale invasion because a full-scale invasion was unimaginable.
And so I went to Sochi, what now feels like a thousand years ago, and spent every night in the city’s seaside Winter Theater watching the best of Russian and foreign culture, a mix of traditional and very untraditional musical and theater performances, with standing ovations and curtain calls and the local babushkas holding the hands of grandchildren while whispering instructions on proper theater etiquette.
I flew back to Moscow on the evening of February 23. The next morning the war began.
Everything changed in the blink of an eye. Within two weeks, I would find myself in a minivan with a driver and six people, three dogs and mountains of suitcases and bags, getting ready to cross the border out of Russia. I would be the last one of the Moscow Times staff to leave the country, part of an exodus that included most of the foreign correspondents in Russia and thousands of Russians.
I was leaving a place I’d lived for more than 40 years.
I hadn’t set out to spend my life in Moscow. After graduating from college in 1978, I came to Moscow to continue studying Russian and become a translator. Except for a few years in the 1980s, I’ve lived there ever since. I worked as a translator and interpreter, as a field producer and reporter in television journalism, a manager of non-profit communication programs, and at The Moscow Times newspaper for almost 20 years. I write a column about Russian language and culture, and since 2015 I’ve been the arts editor.
Along the way, I got married and divorced, danced at weddings and attended funerals, was a godmother and an honorary auntie, bought an apartment and a series of Russian cars, spent my summers at the dacha, sang in a choir, traveled around the countryside with my Russian therapy dog, learned how to make Siberian dumplings, went to every art exhibition and museum, and had favorite seats at the Bolshoi. I have friends I’ve known for four decades and watched as their toddlers grew up and became parents with toddlers of their own.
I didn’t plan to stay forever, but I didn’t have plans to leave. I had the vague notion that at some point I’d sell my apartment and move back to the U.S. But that point always seemed somewhere down the road, off in the future.
On a Thursday a week after the start of war, we had a meeting and conference call at the newspaper office. By then, there were only five of us in Moscow; some of the staff had already left Russia. We’d try to work in various locations and time zones. It wasn’t ideal, but we had learned how to work from our homes during the years of the pandemic.
None of us felt in danger in Moscow. Stores were well-stocked, no one was harassing us, and all of us had subscriptions to VPNs that masked our geographic location so we could keep reading the websites and social media the government was blocking. One Russian friend called and reminded me to stock up on imported medicine and coffee before prices went up. Another told me to buy a year’s supply of the imported kibble my dog eats. An expat group on Facebook posted constantly about money — getting rubles out and foreign currency in. The money transfer services had stopped working, but I could use my U.S. bank card to withdraw rubles from Russian ATMs.
I wasn’t afraid of being arrested. I thought the worst that could happen is that foreign journalists would be deported on short notice. So I made some preliminary preparations. I called my veterinarian and had him microchip my dog and tell me what documents I’d need to leave with her. Every day I asked my American friends what they were doing. Most were staying. The ones who were leaving were struggling to get out, since within a few days most direct flights to Europe had been canceled. One American who was married to a Russian had planned to stay, but their daughter had called them from New York in a panic and made them promise to leave. They had managed to get air tickets from Moscow to Tallinn, Estonia, for March 8, but the trip would have three layovers and would take them about 30 hours — three times longer than it would have taken to drive.
Our inner lives may have been filled with turmoil, but Moscow itself seemed to go strangely silent, as if it had pulled up its sidewalks and slammed shut its doors and windows. In the park across the street from my apartment building, the playground ice slides that had been filled with chattering, happy children were empty and soundless. On our morning walks with our dogs, my friends talked about everything but the war — I don’t know why. Did they believe, as one neighbor said when the sanctions began, that “Biden just won’t let us live in peace” and didn’t want to offend me by criticizing my president? Or did they mistrust me? To my shame, I had a flashback of Soviet-era fear, remembering when friends or colleagues could denounce you to the authorities. I talked about television shows and the weather, just in case.
The strangest part of that last week was the sense of navigating between two realities. There was my reality of a brutal war being waged against Ukraine and foreigners making frantic travel plans. And then there was my neighbors’ televised reality of children handing flowers to Russian soldiers in the warring republics of the Donbas, thanking them for saving them from genocidal Ukrainians. In their reality, NATO was bombing Russian soldiers and the “drug addicted, neo-Nazi” leadership of Ukraine was being run by the Americans. Once someone laughed about “fake” videos of Kyiv being bombed — “as if we could do anything like that.”
I only discussed my situation with one neighbor, who had hurriedly sent her college-age son out of the country and had begun making plans to leave with her daughter. She hadn’t told anyone at work or in the neighborhood that she was leaving. “You never know,” she said on the stairs, rapping her knuckles on the handrail in the old Soviet code that meant an informant.
On Friday, March 4, the eighth day of the war, the Russian Parliament passed a law on the media. “Fake news” about the war would be punished by up to 15 years in jail. The law’s definition of “fake news” clarified that the war could not be called “a war.” It had to be called a “special military operation.” The terms “invasion” or “aggression” were also prohibited. Anything that “discredited” the armed forces was illegal, but what “discreditation” consisted of was not specified. Only Russian government and state-media sources could be used by non-state media.
At the newspaper, we reported on the law and expected that it would be signed into effect that night. We didn’t think, however, that it was applicable to Western media like us; The Moscow Times was registered in the Netherlands.
That night I woke up like a shot at 3 a.m. In my kitchen, I groped in the dark for my television remote. My cable service had CNN, BBC, EuroNews and several other foreign news channels. The law was only a few hours old, but my TV screen lit up with an announcement that CNN was no longer available. BBC and the other news channels were still on the air, but when I flipped through my Twitter feed, it was a list of closures. Znak, an independent news outlet based in Yekaterinburg — one of the last internet publications still publishing — had closed. BBC, ABC, CBS were leaving at least until they assessed the situation. Apparently, the law would apply to non-Russian media, too.
I panicked. I got on my computer, turned on my VPN and went into the administrative section of the newspaper to scrub the site. Section titles like “Russia Invades Ukraine” became “Ukraine.” I took the words “war,” “attacks,” “invades” and “invasion” out of every header. If I couldn’t think of how to rename an article, I killed it. My last language column was called “The Language of War” — I took that offline. I took off bylines. I wrote a borderline-hysterical note to everyone that we should close down until we all left the country. And then I drank more coffee and kept scrolling through the articles, looking for forbidden words.
It was time to leave. But I still wasn’t sure. Maybe I was being alarmist. Maybe it wasn’t that bad. I called my old friend, Yevgeniya Albats, known as Zhenya to her friends, a journalist and writer who always has a handle on the truth — and isn’t afraid of it. At her apartment, Zhenya made tea and opened a bottle of wine — because you never know what you need, she said — as I went through my panicked reasoning. Was I in danger?
Zhenya had just spent a couple of hours that morning discussing the new law with a lawyer specializing in media regulation. Theoretically, she said, it was the owner or editor who would be fined or punished for a violation, not the writer. So I was probably not in any real danger.
Pause. “On the other hand,” she said, “there’s always the risk of hostage-taking.”
Right. Putin’s Russia has a habit of arresting foreigners in case they could be used as diplomatic chits.
I would go.
Zhenya would stay. “I’ve already said or written everything I think a hundred times over. They know everything about me. If they wanted to arrest me, they would have done so already,” she said. “Besides, it’s my country. Someone has to stay and tell people what’s happening.”
Before I left, we poured glasses of wine. It was Saturday, March 5, the day that Joseph Stalin died in 1953. We raised our glasses and said the traditional toast: “That one died, and this one will, too.”
Now that I had decided to leave, I had to figure out how. By then, leaving Moscow was difficult. Flights out of Moscow were prohibited from flying over the air space of Europe. People could only fly out via a few cities to the south and east — Istanbul, Yerevan and Bishkek — or take buses from St. Petersburg to Helsinki and Estonia. I wrote and called everyone who might have an idea or could help.
One of our staff members had left Moscow for his home in Bishkek, the capital of Kyrgyzstan in Central Asia. Two reporters had also flown there before making reservations for flights to the U.K. My dog and I would be welcome there. I put it on the list. I wrote an American I’d met in Alanya, Turkey, several years ago: If we flew there, could I find an apartment to rent with my dog? She said yes. On the list. I considered driving my car across a border somewhere, but I wasn’t sure I’d have time to do all the paperwork needed to bring a car across an international border and was even less sure that I’d be up for a 15-hour drive in mid-winter by myself. But a friend had a friend on the Finnish border near Murmansk who could help, so I kept that option on the list, too.
And then a friend in Latvia told me about a transport service she had taken: a van from Moscow to Riga via a smaller Estonian border crossing with fewer trucks to clog things up. One van took you to the Russian border; another picked you up on the Estonian side and drove you to Latvia. Pets welcome. No cages. She could pick me up in Riga, the Latvian capital. In fact, she could help find me an apartment and get me settled. Best of all, there was a van set to leave in four days, Wednesday night, and it would cost 190 euros — 90 for me, 100 for my dog. Riga had a large Russian population and a growing Russian diaspora. My dog would be more comfortable in a van.
That was how I’d go.
I wrote a to-do list: get money, buy storage bins, make extra keys, get a PCR test and a Covid antibody test, call the vet for the departure documents, pull out the big suitcase, move files to Dropbox, decide what to take, pack the family photographs and letters into the storage bins for friends to rescue if something happened to my apartment (what, I had no idea), buy European medical insurance, move the car (to where, I didn’t know), empty the refrigerator, do laundry, set up automatic bill-paying, find out how cold it is in Riga in March.
I had wanted to transfer ownership of my apartment to a Russian friend, or, if there wasn’t time — and now there wasn’t time — to give someone power of attorney that would allow them to do it after I left. But when I called a real estate lawyer, he told me a law had just been passed on March 2 requiring all real estate transactions involving foreigners to be certified by a special governmental commission. It was unlikely that any transaction would be permitted.
I hoped to at least give someone power of attorney to do things in my name — what things? I had no idea — but when I called a notary to set it up, she politely asked what country I was from, then asked me to hold for a minute. She came back on the line to say that they’d received notification prohibiting them from preparing power of attorney documents that had to do with real estate for citizens of “unfriendly countries” — me — and she was very sorry but she wasn’t sure if she could do anything for me at all.
By late afternoon on Wednesday, I was somehow ready: a big-wheeled suitcase filled with clothes I would need at first, a computer bag, a travel bag with food for my dog, a purse and a bag of children’s clothes a doting Moscow grandmother desperately wanted to send to her grandson in Riga. I had been told that we’d have to walk between the border posts, so I practiced hauling it all. Heavy but possible.
I closed the windows, turned off the water and gas. I snapped a few photos of my favorite room in the apartment — my study filled with books and art I’d collected over the decades. I put all my car documents on my desk with keys next to folders with bill payments and appliance manuals. A friend was picking me up to take me to the meeting point and would have keys to my apartment.
After I showed him where all the turn-off valves were and how the door locks worked, he took the first load of luggage down to the car. I sat “for the road” — the Russian custom of pausing before a departure, sitting for a minute and saying a prayer. And then I took my last bags and my dog into the hall and closed the door on the life I’d lived for 44 years.
Before I got into the elevator, I heard the buzzer in my apartment ring — it was my friend ringing from the entryway for me to let him in. I put the key in the lock to open the door and then stopped. Another Russian superstition: It’s bad luck to go back after you’ve shut the door. I let the buzzer ring and left.
As I stepped outside, I looked back at the entryway. In the night, someone had scrawled black graffiti on the pale yellow wall. “Net voine,” it read: “No war.”
Good, I thought. My apartment house, where I’d lived so many decades of my life, was on the right side of history.
At the van I met the other five travelers; I was the only foreigner. We just nodded to each other; somehow asking questions seemed intrusive, too personal. The van had three rows of seats. One person sat up front with the driver, a mother and daughter had the first row; a woman with her five-year-old granddaughter and two French bulldogs had the second row, and my dog and I got the last seat. It was, I realized, the bad row: narrow seat, no leg room, no heat. All of our luggage was piled up around and under the seats. One of the bulldogs — Frosya — lunged at my dog, who lay next to me, shaking. When we set off, Frosya began to moan and whine, while the little girl turned around and kept up a non-stop monologue: “Can I pet your dog? What’s her name? Frosya is not very nice, but our other dog is sweet. You can pet her if you want. Is your coat warm? Do you know how to make smiley faces on the window? I can show you!” After a while, as Frosya continued to moan and tug at her leash to get at my dog, I pretended to fall asleep. The little girl poked me to get my attention.
I burst out laughing. It was going to be one hell of a long trip.
But after an hour or two, Frosya stopped whining and the little girl fell asleep. No one spoke, not even among themselves — out of fatigue or tension, I don’t know. We bounced along the pot-holed, uneven roads of Russia’s provinces, passing long-haul trucks and rickety local cars, as signs for villages and little towns appeared and disappeared in flashes of headlights. I fretted about what I had packed and what I’d left behind, and worried about the border crossing.
I must have dozed off. I woke up about seven hours after we’d left Moscow when the van stopped and the door was opened by a border guard, who shone a flashlight at us. “Show your passports!” We all held up our passports. “Give me yours!” he said to me. I passed it up, he glanced at it and passed it back, apparently unfazed by an American presenting a U.S. passport in a vanful of Russians and dogs.
We drove into what I now think of as The Zone — the border zone with Russian facilities on one side and the Estonian buildings on the other. It was a vast fenced-off area with roads for trucks and cars, booths for guards and several outbuildings. Several long commercial trucks parked off to the side, as if left there while the drivers redid their documents. Everything was lit by tall streetlights.
We piled out of the van. It was about 3 a.m. and bitterly cold — my phone showed 0 degrees Fahrenheit — and the asphalt was covered with thick, uneven layers of dirty ice. In my suitcase-hauling practice, I had failed to take that into consideration. First, we hauled our bags and dogs to one booth. The window opened and I handed over my passport and entry card; the guard handed it back and told me to go to customs. I dragged everything over another expanse of ice to a small building, hauled it inside, piled it all on the x-ray conveyer belt, and answered questions. No, I didn’t have anything forbidden. Yes, I had two computers. No, I had no plants or drugs. The Russian guards were polite. I took my passport and hauled everything outside again, on to the next booth.
This booth, I realized only afterward, was the Important Booth. Here you handed your documents through a window to the guards and waited. I stood outside with one of my van-mates, a middle-aged woman in a thin wool coat. The French bulldog family was delayed behind us. “The other two were taken inside,” my van-mate told me. We stood there for about an hour in the frigid cold. Every once in a while the booth window would open and they’d call one of us over. “What is your work?” “Did you leave the country in the last two years?” And then the window would close and they’d go back to their computers. Later the woman told me they’d asked her, “We see you were in Kyiv in 2013. What did you do there? Who did you see?”
I walked back and forth with my dog, jumped up and down to keep warm, and waited. Finally, the window opened, my van-mate got her passport and started walking toward Estonia. After another 10 minutes, I was called up and handed mine. Relief; I could go. I put the computer bag on top of the wheeled suitcase, draped the two bags with clothes and dog food over my shoulders and hung my purse around my neck. I dragged the suitcase with one hand and held my dog’s leash with the other. Estonia was at the end of a long, ice-covered road — about 800 meters, a half-mile, the guards said. “See those lights way off there? That’s Estonia.”
It is very hard to drag 150 lbs. of luggage across a half-mile of ice in the middle of the night in below 0 temperatures with a dog on a leash.
By stopping every 100 meters and switching hands, I finally made it to the Estonia side. The border guards were very kind. I said I was a journalist and they asked why I was leaving. Had I been threatened? Did something happen? I told them about the new law and said almost all the foreign journalists were getting out. They shook their heads sympathetically, stamped my passport and said, “Welcome to Estonia.” No one looked at any of my carefully prepared documents proving my dog was healthy and vaccinated, that I didn’t have Covid but did have health insurance.
My fellow traveler and I climbed in the new van to warm up while the driver contemplated how he’d fit in all the luggage, four more people and two more dogs. Finally, the mother and daughter arrived. Because they’d been pulled aside by the guards, I assumed they were fleeing the country and wondered if they had been politically active. They had been interrogated for more than an hour, the mother told us. They had close relatives in Kyiv, and the guards had questioned them about their family, what they did, what their plans were, where they were going. It seemed that anyone with Ukrainian connections was suspicious. The guards had asked to see their cell phones — a new trick used by the police to find compromising materials and sites, as well as phone numbers and addresses. “But I told them ‘no’,” the woman said. “I told them that if they had an order from the prosecutor’s office, I’d hand it over. But otherwise, no, it was my private property.” For some reason, the guards decided to release them.
At long last, the French bulldog family made it to the van. My dog and I sat in front this time, out of Frosya’s reach. We had spent more than two hours in The Zone, and the entire trip would take about 14 hours.
As we drove off, the first sign we saw in Estonia was a bright blue and yellow billboard reading, “Glory to Ukraine!”
We were not in Russia anymore.
When I arrived in Riga, my friends met me at the van and whisked me into an apartment in a sprawling late-Soviet housing complex of bulky long blocks surrounded by lawns, trees and children’s playgrounds. In Moscow, my large apartment was on the top floor of a 90-year-old building and filled with antiques and art. My small Riga apartment is on the first floor of a 40-year-old building with décor by IKEA. That contrast, it turns out, is perfect.
Latvia has the largest Russian population in the Baltic states, and my neighborhood seems to be home to most of them in the capital. Older Latvians also speak Russian, and young Latvians often speak English, so communication isn’t a problem.
Work is not a problem either. As soon as the staff of The Moscow Times landed — in cities including Amsterdam, Istanbul, Riga, London — we all got back to work. Some Russian correspondents have remained behind, quietly helping with reporting. New people are joining us; there are a lot of good journalists looking for jobs. We feel like it’s important to keep operating, to make sure that those who rely on us can still find us.
And we’re making the transition, although many hours are taken up solving the technological problems of the modern home office: too many devices, new cell phone numbers and WiFi routers, with everything stopping when automatic payments from my Moscow bank are no longer accepted or confirmation text messages are sent to a Russian telephone number no longer in use.
In the two weeks between the start of the war and my departure from Russia, I had wept constantly. I cried when I walked my dog in the park across the street, where I knew every bush and tree and patch of grass; when I sat at my desk looking out at my beloved Moscow courtyard; when I bought bread at my local bakery; when I drove a familiar route along the Moscow River, past the Kremlin, and then homeward along one of Moscow’s central avenues. I couldn’t imagine that it might be the last time I’d see places that had been the backdrop of absolutely everything important that had happened to me in my adult life, where there were so many people and so much that I loved.
But now work, the novelty of a new city, the daily battle with iPhones and computers, keep me in a continuous present tense. I don’t think about the future beyond next week; I don’t think about the past. Except to realize that even if I can go back to Russia, it won’t be the Russia I loved.
Maybe that superstition is right: Once you shut the door, walk away and don’t look back.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/03/27/fled-moscow-american-journalist-putin-00020470?
Date: 1/04/2022 02:38:36
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1867578
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Radioactive material stolen from Chernobyl monitoring lab
Sometime during Russia’s invasion of Chernobyl in Ukraine, looters stole radioactive material from a radiation monitoring laboratory near the defunct nuclear power plant. There seems to be a low risk that this material would be used in so-called dirty bombs, an expert told Live Science.
The looters took pieces of radioactive waste, which could theoretically be used to create a dirty bomb, a device that combines radioactive material with a conventional explosive, Anatolii Nosovskyi, director of the Institute for Safety Problems of Nuclear Power Plants (ISPNPP) in Kyiv, told Science. They also swiped radioactive isotopes — radioactive chemical elements with different numbers of neutrons in their nuclei — that are usually used to calibrate instruments in the monitoring lab, Nosovskyi said.
On March 25, Science reported that the radioactive material had been stolen. New Scientist later confirmed these reports with an ISPNPP scientist, who spoke with reporters on the condition of anonymity. The source said that the earlier Science report was “accurate based on the information available.”
More:
https://www.livescience.com/chernobyl-radioactive-material-stolen
Date: 1/04/2022 02:43:06
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1867579
Subject: re: Russia Invades Ukraine
PermeateFree said:
Radioactive material stolen from Chernobyl monitoring lab
Sometime during Russia’s invasion of Chernobyl in Ukraine, looters stole radioactive material from a radiation monitoring laboratory near the defunct nuclear power plant. There seems to be a low risk that this material would be used in so-called dirty bombs, an expert told Live Science.
The looters took pieces of radioactive waste, which could theoretically be used to create a dirty bomb, a device that combines radioactive material with a conventional explosive, Anatolii Nosovskyi, director of the Institute for Safety Problems of Nuclear Power Plants (ISPNPP) in Kyiv, told Science. They also swiped radioactive isotopes — radioactive chemical elements with different numbers of neutrons in their nuclei — that are usually used to calibrate instruments in the monitoring lab, Nosovskyi said.
On March 25, Science reported that the radioactive material had been stolen. New Scientist later confirmed these reports with an ISPNPP scientist, who spoke with reporters on the condition of anonymity. The source said that the earlier Science report was “accurate based on the information available.”
More:
https://www.livescience.com/chernobyl-radioactive-material-stolen
Might be used to poison people?