Date: 7/03/2022 10:48:56
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1857245
Subject: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

We’re all familiar with some Greek myths.

The labours of Hercules
The voyage of the Argonauts
Theseus and the Minotaur
Midas and the golden touch
The family of Zeus
Prometheus bringing fire
(perhaps Cupid and Psyche)

But who wrote these stories? And when? And most importantly why?

What are the oldest, and the most complete texts of these stories from the ancient world?

Also interested in ancient Roman myths

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Date: 7/03/2022 12:06:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 1857255
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

The works of Hesiod Theogony
and Works and Days

The fullest and most important source of myths about the origin of the gods is the Theogony of Hesiod (c. 700 bce). The elaborate genealogies mentioned above are accompanied by folktales and etiological myths. The Works and Days shares some of these in the context of a farmer’s calendar and an extensive harangue on the subject of justice addressed to Hesiod’s possibly fictitious brother Perses. The orthodox view treats the two poems as quite different in theme and treats the Works and Days as a theodicy (a natural theology). It is possible, however, to treat the two poems as a diptych, each part dependent on the other. The Theogony declares the identities and alliances of the gods, while the Works and Days gives advice on the best way to succeed in a dangerous world, and Hesiod urges that the most reliable—though by no means certain—way is to be just.

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Date: 7/03/2022 12:33:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1857263
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

‘Who invented the Greek Gods? ‘

Lazy people.

‘So where do these gods live, anyway?’

‘oh, umm, errr…on top of that mountain.’

‘You mean that big one in the middle?’

‘Yeah.’

‘That’s not so high, about 3,000 metres (10,000 feet, or whatever they used then). Why don’t we take a hike up there and visit them?’.

‘Are you kidding? That might need a whole weekend! And it’d be such an effort!’

‘Yeah, when you put it like that, they can GAGF.’

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Date: 7/03/2022 12:43:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 1857269
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

captain_spalding said:


‘Who invented the Greek Gods? ‘

Lazy people.

‘So where do these gods live, anyway?’

‘oh, umm, errr…on top of that mountain.’

‘You mean that big one in the middle?’

‘Yeah.’

‘That’s not so high, about 3,000 metres (10,000 feet, or whatever they used then). Why don’t we take a hike up there and visit them?’.

‘Are you kidding? That might need a whole weekend! And it’d be such an effort!’

‘Yeah, when you put it like that, they can GAGF.’

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Date: 7/03/2022 15:13:34
From: Ogmog
ID: 1857345
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

Like the old saw about God the Watchmaker
our human propensity to seek answers, in this case
How did we get here? it required a way of understanding
how the earth came into being when it was abundantly obvious
that mere mortals were totally incapable of achieving such MIRACLES

why do we ask why

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Date: 7/03/2022 17:56:29
From: Ogmog
ID: 1857384
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

Why Do Humans Keep Inventing Gods to Worship?

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Date: 7/03/2022 17:58:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857386
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

Ogmog said:

Why Do Humans Keep Inventing Gods to Worship?

actually it’s about bullshit asymmetry

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Date: 7/03/2022 18:07:45
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1857389
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

Ogmog said:

Why Do Humans Keep Inventing Gods to Worship?

We are not as smart as we think we are?

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Date: 7/03/2022 21:23:33
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1857433
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

roughbarked said:


The works of Hesiod Theogony
and Works and Days

The fullest and most important source of myths about the origin of the gods is the Theogony of Hesiod (c. 700 bce). The elaborate genealogies mentioned above are accompanied by folktales and etiological myths. The Works and Days shares some of these in the context of a farmer’s calendar and an extensive harangue on the subject of justice addressed to Hesiod’s possibly fictitious brother Perses. The orthodox view treats the two poems as quite different in theme and treats the Works and Days as a theodicy (a natural theology). It is possible, however, to treat the two poems as a diptych, each part dependent on the other. The Theogony declares the identities and alliances of the gods, while the Works and Days gives advice on the best way to succeed in a dangerous world, and Hesiod urges that the most reliable—though by no means certain—way is to be just.

Hey thanks, I’ll read those.

The Theogony includes the “The family of Zeus” and “Prometheus bringing fire”. And is very old. It’s not long, only about 1000 lines long.

“Cupid and Psyche” is recent, AD.

Any clues about The labours of Hercules, The voyage of the Argonauts, Theseus and the Minotaur, Midas and the golden touch?

Labours of Hercules is attributed to Peisander, dated about 600 BC, but the original source is lost so I assume the oldest extant source is much later?

> Why Do Humans Keep Inventing Gods to Worship?

That’s not quite the same thing. Inventing ancient Greek Gods has nothing to do with worship.
It has more to do with horror stories?

The normal answer to why anyone invents anything tends to be “money or broads”. But that doesn’t work in this case. Inventing Greek Gods wouldn’t bring either. Other motivations for invention could be fame or catharsis or demonic possession. Of those three, demonic possession seems to me perhaps most likely, the stories are meant to frighten the listeners shitless.

> At least 18,000 different gods, goddesses and various animals or objects have been worshipped by humans.

That’s a vast underestimate. Another web source says “In fact, there are over 33 million Hindu gods in total !” I suspect that the motive in Hinduism is mass-produced pornography. Each pornographic sculpture design, copyright individually (perhaps) to each sculptor has to be different to be most effective as pornography.

But I’m not talking Hindu here, I’m talking ancient Greek.

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Date: 7/03/2022 21:50:19
From: transition
ID: 1857438
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

just looking at a comprehensive list of Greek Gods

first thing that came to mind was systems theory, an second thing was categories, sort of cognitive categories or domains related perhaps

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Date: 7/03/2022 22:07:33
From: transition
ID: 1857451
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

a starting point, possibly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNW_B8EwgH4
Stone Age Minds: A conversation with evolutionary psychologists Leda Cosmides and John Tooby

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Date: 7/03/2022 22:10:44
From: transition
ID: 1857452
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

transition said:


a starting point, possibly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNW_B8EwgH4
Stone Age Minds: A conversation with evolutionary psychologists Leda Cosmides and John Tooby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_WrKno972U
Our Mind is Not a Blank Slate: Evolutionary Psychologists Leda Cosmides & John Tooby

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Date: 7/03/2022 22:15:07
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1857455
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

transition said:


transition said:

a starting point, possibly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNW_B8EwgH4
Stone Age Minds: A conversation with evolutionary psychologists Leda Cosmides and John Tooby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_WrKno972U
Our Mind is Not a Blank Slate: Evolutionary Psychologists Leda Cosmides & John Tooby

Are there still people around who push the blank slate idea?

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Date: 7/03/2022 22:19:38
From: transition
ID: 1857458
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

transition said:

a starting point, possibly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNW_B8EwgH4
Stone Age Minds: A conversation with evolutionary psychologists Leda Cosmides and John Tooby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_WrKno972U
Our Mind is Not a Blank Slate: Evolutionary Psychologists Leda Cosmides & John Tooby

Are there still people around who push the blank slate idea?

terribly drunk people mostly

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Date: 7/03/2022 22:28:47
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1857468
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_WrKno972U
Our Mind is Not a Blank Slate: Evolutionary Psychologists Leda Cosmides & John Tooby

Are there still people around who push the blank slate idea?

terribly drunk people mostly

we’re not drunk but we’d still push it off the table

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Date: 7/03/2022 23:34:22
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1857488
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

Could have been indo Europeans

Zeus comes from the indo European “dyas” so I’ve read.

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Date: 10/03/2022 17:57:01
From: Ogmog
ID: 1858795
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

roughbarked said:


The works of Hesiod Theogony
and Works and Days

The fullest and most important source of myths about the origin of the gods is the Theogony of Hesiod (c. 700 bce). The elaborate genealogies mentioned above are accompanied by folktales and etiological myths. The Works and Days shares some of these in the context of a farmer’s calendar and an extensive harangue on the subject of justice addressed to Hesiod’s possibly fictitious brother Perses. The orthodox view treats the two poems as quite different in theme and treats the Works and Days as a theodicy (a natural theology). It is possible, however, to treat the two poems as a diptych, each part dependent on the other. The Theogony declares the identities and alliances of the gods, while the Works and Days gives advice on the best way to succeed in a dangerous world, and Hesiod urges that the most reliable—though by no means certain—way is to be just.

Thank you
I was familiar with these stories (Myths)
since early childhood but never learnt WHO
had actually penned them, (Invented the Gods)…

Nice to find vindication for my cynical outlook about religions,
even the Bible as told by Moses (who’d been raised by Egyptians)
Thanx to your links, who’s myths can be traced back thru time and space.

When cornered by some Bible thumper I give a wry smile as I crack out with;
“The only difference between Zeus & Jehovah is that Jehovah had a better lawyer”

rim~shot

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Date: 17/03/2022 12:06:48
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1861684
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

I found the answer!
In Herodotus, the Histories.

Let’s start with Dionysis.

Dionysis was invented by Melampus son of Amytheon. He observed a pornographic procession in Egypt where puppets with huge (male) genitals were paraded through the city streets. The puppets were hel;d steady and the genitals moved up and down. Melampus thought “what a great idea” and introduced it back in Greece. That’s how we get Dionysis.
(As an aside, it was the worship of Dionysis on the Greek Island of Lesbos that gave us the present word “Lesbian”)

All the Greek gods were imported. Nearly all from Egypt. Egypt originally had 8 gods only two of which, Isis and Osiris were universally accepted.

“The names of nearly all the gods came to Greece from Egypt. With the exception of Poseidon, Dioscuri, Hera, Hestia, Themis, the Graces, and the Nereids. I think that the gods of whom the Egyptians profess no knowledge were named by the Pelasgians – with the exception of Poseidon, of whom the Greeks learned from the Lydians.”

Io and Europa were not originally gods, but real women. Io was the daughter of king Inachus, she was abducted by Phonecians who took her off to Egypt. Europa was the daughter of the Phonecian king in Tyre, and was abducted by Greeks.

Hercules/Heracles has human and had two Egyptian parents.

Zeus didn’t began as a person. Zeus began as “Nature” and was worshipped on mountain tops (by climbers with oxygen starvation).

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Date: 17/03/2022 12:17:22
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1861692
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

mollwollfumble said:

Zeus didn’t began as a person. Zeus began as “Nature” and was worshipped on mountain tops (by climbers with oxygen starvation).

Oxygen starvation?

In Greece?

You sure about that?

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Date: 17/03/2022 12:29:58
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1861699
Subject: re: Who invented the Greek Gods? And Why?

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

Zeus didn’t began as a person. Zeus began as “Nature” and was worshipped on mountain tops (by climbers with oxygen starvation).

Oxygen starvation?

In Greece?

You sure about that?

Ahhh there you see you’ve made the common mistake of taking any of Moll’s ‘own research’ seriously.

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