I don’t know much about domestic solar power set-ups.

Last night, we had a blackout here from just about 8:00pm to 9:45 pm.

It got jolly dark, jolly quick.

One thing i noticed was that the houses of all of our neighbours which have solar panels on their rooves were just as dark as every other place. Indeed, i believe that one fired up a petrol-driven generator.

Does solar power not provide you with any immunity from blackouts? It’s not a ‘stand-by’ power source at all?

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know much about domestic solar power set-ups.

Last night, we had a blackout here from just about 8:00pm to 9:45 pm.

It got jolly dark, jolly quick.

One thing i noticed was that the houses of all of our neighbours which have solar panels on their rooves were just as dark as every other place. Indeed, i believe that one fired up a petrol-driven generator.

Does solar power not provide you with any immunity from blackouts? It’s not a ‘stand-by’ power source at all?

It would if you had a battery.

Generally…no.

In a standard solar setup, even those with batteries, the inverters need to comply with AS4777 and this requires that the inverters turn off as soon as the power fails. They are not allowed to operate in an ‘islanded’ mode of operation. this is a safety clause, you don’t want to be backfeeding into a dead grid as it nay be dead for a very good reason – the linesman has pulled the fuse so he can do some work on the line is the main reason,

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know much about domestic solar power set-ups.

Last night, we had a blackout here from just about 8:00pm to 9:45 pm.

It got jolly dark, jolly quick.

One thing i noticed was that the houses of all of our neighbours which have solar panels on their rooves were just as dark as every other place. Indeed, i believe that one fired up a petrol-driven generator.

Does solar power not provide you with any immunity from blackouts? It’s not a ‘stand-by’ power source at all?

It would if you had a battery.

NO.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know much about domestic solar power set-ups.

Last night, we had a blackout here from just about 8:00pm to 9:45 pm.

It got jolly dark, jolly quick.

One thing i noticed was that the houses of all of our neighbours which have solar panels on their rooves were just as dark as every other place. Indeed, i believe that one fired up a petrol-driven generator.

Does solar power not provide you with any immunity from blackouts? It’s not a ‘stand-by’ power source at all?

It would if you had a battery.

^ This.

You need storage – a battery.

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know much about domestic solar power set-ups.

Last night, we had a blackout here from just about 8:00pm to 9:45 pm.

It got jolly dark, jolly quick.

One thing i noticed was that the houses of all of our neighbours which have solar panels on their rooves were just as dark as every other place. Indeed, i believe that one fired up a petrol-driven generator.

Does solar power not provide you with any immunity from blackouts? It’s not a ‘stand-by’ power source at all?

It would if you had a battery.

^ This.

You need storage – a battery.

and the inverter needs to comply with AS4777

Bogsnorkler said:

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

It would if you had a battery.

^ This.

You need storage – a battery.

and the inverter needs to comply with AS4777

As your mate just said,

You can get systems that will operate in an islanded mode but they are not cheap and they have very strict requirements about how they operate. I did the design for the first systems done in Australia, Tesla batteries with a Dynapower (USA) inverter. It was a tesla designed system and it is where my utter contempt for tesla began. The design required that the site had an incoming circuit breaker that would open as soon as a power failure was detected. At this point the inverter would shut down and after the circuit breaker had opened and was verified to be open then the inverter would start back up off the batteries and supply the site.

The protection requirements to allow this meant that we had to have dual, redundant protection relays operating with ROCOF (rate of change of frequency) and Vector Shift setting as well as the usual volt fail detection etc. These setting were set on a knife edge so the smallest disturbance on the grid forced the system into islanded mode.

Never did get it to work correctly as tesla were fucking incompetent. It was over three million dollars down the drain.

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Michael V said:

^ This.

You need storage – a battery.

and the inverter needs to comply with AS4777

As your mate just said,

Which means that even if you do have a battery teh system will not operate during a power failure.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

and the inverter needs to comply with AS4777

As your mate just said,

Which means that even if you do have a battery teh system will not operate during a power failure.

Which you also pointed out.
If you are not connected to the grid it would be different?

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

and the inverter needs to comply with AS4777

As your mate just said,

Which means that even if you do have a battery teh system will not operate during a power failure.

Except if you have a separate stand alone battery system that doesn’t export to the grid.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

and the inverter needs to comply with AS4777

As your mate just said,

Which means that even if you do have a battery teh system will not operate during a power failure.

So come the apocalypse they won’t work ?

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

As your mate just said,

Which means that even if you do have a battery teh system will not operate during a power failure.

Except if you have a separate stand alone battery system that doesn’t export to the grid.

Yes, you can have an inverter that is never connected to the grid.

Cymek said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

As your mate just said,

Which means that even if you do have a battery teh system will not operate during a power failure.

So come the apocalypse they won’t work ?

Correct.

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

As your mate just said,

Which means that even if you do have a battery teh system will not operate during a power failure.

Except if you have a separate stand alone battery system that doesn’t export to the grid.

That is what the solar people told us just the other month when we got some quotes about upgrading our system.
They still aren’t cheap, the battery was as much or more than the panel and inverter

You need a special type of inverter and battery system

I was sat at home last year during the day during the working week and the power went out for 15 minutes, I took that as an omen. So then I started thinking…

Australia is shutting its base load powerstations, its taking MORE people all requiring power.

In the last 6 months half the country went dark.

Infrastructure is getting old, not being maintained properly , power demand is going up system reliability is going down.

The 8kw solar cell array went up on the shed roof that month, followed by the 13.8 kwh battery system. A few weeks after the battery system went in we had another blackout , I didn’t even know because we never missed a beat.

The battery system/ inverter are co ordinated with each other and they act as a UPS.

I don’t need diesel or petrol to keep me going in a crisis.

Normal inverters rely on system frequency to remain pumping power into the house, mine doesn’t, if the neighbourhood has a power outage it doesn’t try pumping power onto the distribution mains.

As I said to the solar guys last year when they asked me why I wanted a large solar AND battery system : the world is moving into a period of instability. All I’m trying to do is plan, prepare and organise for what comes next.

My system cost around 22,000 – it doesn’t make any sense to pay this amount

Until the power goes out

I keep my manual defib in the shed ( an abortion clinic was throwing it out) , I take out as a party trick to amuse people and put the paddles on me so you get a sinus rhythm, you get a concerned stare.

What’s the dream ? In the event of an emergency the place can be turned into a make shift hospital

just read a book

SCIENCE said:

just read a book

That was clever of you. Did it have pictures?

Thanks for all that, everyone.

Had to leave for a short while after posting the question.

I feel better informed now.

furious said:

SCIENCE said:

just read a book

That was clever of you. Did it have pictures?

couldn’t see them in the dark

SCIENCE said:

furious said:

SCIENCE said:

just read a book

That was clever of you. Did it have pictures?

couldn’t see them in the dark

was it, The Book of Orange?

Bogsnorkler said:

SCIENCE said:

furious said:

That was clever of you. Did it have pictures?

couldn’t see them in the dark

was it, The Book of Orange?

Orange Catholic Bible.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bogsnorkler said:

SCIENCE said:

couldn’t see them in the dark

was it, The Book of Orange?

Orange Catholic Bible.

Bogsnorkler said:

SCIENCE said:

furious said:

That was clever of you. Did it have pictures?

couldn’t see them in the dark

was it, The Book of Orange?

How many copies are there and who has them?

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Yeah but one needs two and a half car parks to park the bastard.

roughbarked said:

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Yeah but one needs two and a half car parks to park the bastard.

That’s what the wheelchair access parks are for.

Dark Orange said:

roughbarked said:

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Yeah but one needs two and a half car parks to park the bastard.

That’s what the wheelchair access parks are for.

;)

roughbarked said:

Dark Orange said:

roughbarked said:

Yeah but one needs two and a half car parks to park the bastard.

That’s what the wheelchair access parks are for.

;)

For the feeble minded?

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Dark Orange said:

That’s what the wheelchair access parks are for.

;)

For the feeble minded?

Nah, only for the bullies.

You could always go offgrid but it’s not a cheap option

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

;)

For the feeble minded?

Nah, only for the bullies.

I was referring to F-150 Lightning owners.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

For the feeble minded?

Nah, only for the bullies.

I was referring to F-150 Lightning owners.

and if they park in the disabled spots?

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Nah, only for the bullies.

I was referring to F-150 Lightning owners.

and if they park in the disabled spots?

Theory proven.

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

Michael V said:

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

That’s not the American way.

Michael V said:

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

I thought the Moke was good. https://thedriven.io/2022/05/27/tally-ho-first-all-electric-mokes-roll-off-production-line-in-uk/

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

That’s not the American way.

Shouldn’t cars all be the size of your living room and handle the same

Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

That’s not the American way.

Shouldn’t cars all be the size of your living room and handle the same

I’d reckon you’d need good drugs to be able to steer your living room.

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

I thought the Moke was good. https://thedriven.io/2022/05/27/tally-ho-first-all-electric-mokes-roll-off-production-line-in-uk/

$52,000. No thank you

Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

That’s not the American way.

Shouldn’t cars all be the size of your living room and handle the same

20 feet of bad taste.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

I thought the Moke was good. https://thedriven.io/2022/05/27/tally-ho-first-all-electric-mokes-roll-off-production-line-in-uk/

$52,000. No thank you

Ford has pulled the drapes off the pure-electric 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning in an event broadcast live from the Blue Oval’s Michigan HQ, where it was revealed that the US car-maker’s first battery-powered pick-up would be priced from just $US39,974 ($A52,000).

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

Dark Orange said:

An interesting selling point for the new EV Pickup:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-31/how-the-ford-f-150-can-be-a-backup-home-generator

Spend an afternoon driving the Ford F-150 Lightning around the vineyards and redwood-shaded back roads of California wine country and the pickup’s considerable power is apparent. What makes the electric version of America’s best-selling vehicle a potential game-changer, though, is not its acceleration (zero to 60 miles per hour in 4.3 seconds) or its range (up to 320 miles on a charge). Rather it’s the technology that taps the Lightning’s battery pack to power your home or the electric grid itself during increasingly frequent climate-driven blackouts.

The extended-range Lightning’s 131 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion pack boasts almost 10 times the capacity of a Tesla Powerwall, an $11,000 home backup battery that can’t be driven to the supermarket. The Lightning is “a mini powerplant for your home,” says Jason Glickman, executive vice president for engineering, planning and strategy at California utility PG&E Corp. “It can support the grid on a hot summer day, when we have demand spiking.”

“At scale, when these vehicles are enabled to send energy back to the grid, flex alerts and notices of grid emergencies will be a thing completely of the past,” adds Glickman, whose utility is testing how to integrate the truck into its management of the grid.

Great!

Now we need it in a package that is not an oversized, overweight, ill-handling, poor braking F-truck.

I thought the Moke was good. https://thedriven.io/2022/05/27/tally-ho-first-all-electric-mokes-roll-off-production-line-in-uk/

No. Poor range.