As a deuteranomalous person, the RGB colour system is awful.
We have three colour vision, but two sensors are very close together.
ie. deuteranomalous is DA in the graph below, normal is N.

As a result we see many more different shades of foliage than the trichromat, but will fail to see red flowers and fruit unless they are specifically pointed out.

The worst confusion is that yellow-orange, yellow-green and dirty yellow can all look alike.
Brown and dirty green look alike.
Pale grey and pale pink look alike.
Purple and dirty blue look alike.

I had a look a couple of years ago at how a deuteranomalous person sees RGB colour space. And succeeded in that. A physical length on this chart is how close a deuteranomalous person sees two RGB colours to be. This chart is actually three-dimensional, but the third dimension is compressed. The patch at left sits perpendicular to the main patch (lower right) and the colour gradients at top connect the main patch along diagonals to the end of the patch at left.

But I need to do better than that.
Deuteranomalous can sometimes see through camouflage that will confuse a normal sighted person.

One way would be to relabel the rainbow generated by sunlight on a prism to deuteranomalous colours.

Another way would be to pantone it.

These are the primary pantone colours.

Pantone has five different reds and only one green. Yuk.
It’s unfortunate that “pantone green” does not appear on the internet. Not unless I can specifically allocate a pantone number to it. And that would require a copy of the Pantone “formula guide”.

But at least pantone has some chance of catching those colours that only a deuteranomalous person can see.

https://encycolorpedia.com/00ad43

Green (Pantone) / #00ad43 Hex Color Code

mollwollfumble said:

As a deuteranomalous person, the RGB colour system is awful.
We have three colour vision, but two sensors are very close together.
ie. deuteranomalous is DA in the graph below, normal is N.

As a result we see many more different shades of foliage than the trichromat, but will fail to see red flowers and fruit unless they are specifically pointed out.

The worst confusion is that yellow-orange, yellow-green and dirty yellow can all look alike.
Brown and dirty green look alike.
Pale grey and pale pink look alike.
Purple and dirty blue look alike.

I had a look a couple of years ago at how a deuteranomalous person sees RGB colour space. And succeeded in that. A physical length on this chart is how close a deuteranomalous person sees two RGB colours to be. This chart is actually three-dimensional, but the third dimension is compressed. The patch at left sits perpendicular to the main patch (lower right) and the colour gradients at top connect the main patch along diagonals to the end of the patch at left.

But I need to do better than that.
Deuteranomalous can sometimes see through camouflage that will confuse a normal sighted person.

One way would be to relabel the rainbow generated by sunlight on a prism to deuteranomalous colours.

Another way would be to pantone it.

These are the primary pantone colours.

Pantone has five different reds and only one green. Yuk.
It’s unfortunate that “pantone green” does not appear on the internet. Not unless I can specifically allocate a pantone number to it. And that would require a copy of the Pantone “formula guide”.

But at least pantone has some chance of catching those colours that only a deuteranomalous person can see.

those Pantone colours are the base colours you use to mix the colours in the PMS book. They aren’t “primary” colours.

JudgeMental said:

mollwollfumble said:

As a deuteranomalous person, the RGB colour system is awful.
We have three colour vision, but two sensors are very close together.
ie. deuteranomalous is DA in the graph below, normal is N.

As a result we see many more different shades of foliage than the trichromat, but will fail to see red flowers and fruit unless they are specifically pointed out.

The worst confusion is that yellow-orange, yellow-green and dirty yellow can all look alike.
Brown and dirty green look alike.
Pale grey and pale pink look alike.
Purple and dirty blue look alike.

I had a look a couple of years ago at how a deuteranomalous person sees RGB colour space. And succeeded in that. A physical length on this chart is how close a deuteranomalous person sees two RGB colours to be. This chart is actually three-dimensional, but the third dimension is compressed. The patch at left sits perpendicular to the main patch (lower right) and the colour gradients at top connect the main patch along diagonals to the end of the patch at left.

But I need to do better than that.
Deuteranomalous can sometimes see through camouflage that will confuse a normal sighted person.

One way would be to relabel the rainbow generated by sunlight on a prism to deuteranomalous colours.

Another way would be to pantone it.

These are the primary pantone colours.

Pantone has five different reds and only one green. Yuk.
It’s unfortunate that “pantone green” does not appear on the internet. Not unless I can specifically allocate a pantone number to it. And that would require a copy of the Pantone “formula guide”.

But at least pantone has some chance of catching those colours that only a deuteranomalous person can see.

those Pantone colours are the base colours you use to mix the colours in the PMS book. They aren’t “primary” colours.

None of the other colours have a Pantone number because they aren’t a mix from the PMS book.

A deuteranomalous person is called a deuteranomal.

You may be a dichromat or a deuteranomalous trichromat. You probably are a deuteranomal, lots more of them than deuteranopes. Deuteranomoly runs in my family. I suspect I’m a carrier, I’m a poor colour matcher.

——————————————————————————————————————-
The well known term red-green color blindness is actually split into two different subtypes. On one side persons which either lack or have anomalous long wavelength sensitive cones (protan color vision deficiency), which are more responsible for the red part of vision. And on the other side deutan color vision deficiencies, which again are split into two different types:

Dichromats: Deuteranopia (also called green-blind). In this case the medium wavelength sensitive cones (green) are missing at all. A deuteranope can only distinguish 2 to 3 different hues, whereas somebody with normal vision sees 7 different hues. Anomalous Trichromats: Deuteranomaly (green-weak). This can be everything between almost normal color vision and deuteranopia. The green sensitive cones are not missing in this case, but the peak of sensitivity is moved towards the red sensitive cones —————————————————————————————

Description lifted from:

https://www.color-blindness.com/deuteranopia-red-green-color-blindness/

JudgeMental said:

https://encycolorpedia.com/00ad43

Green (Pantone) / #00ad43 Hex Color Code

Ta. I hate those hex codes because the assume an RGB colour system. The RGB system is a triangle.
But the colours everyone can see are not a triangle, they are a hyperbola.
So whatever you choose on the spectrum as your R,G and B colours, you’re going to missing a great deal of colours.

Take this for example, the whole collection of colours covered by any RGB system misses all those colours with X<0.13. The colours on this chart are approximations, it’s the shapes that matter. Dyes can get outside this awful RGB straight jacket, and I’m hoping that some Pantone dyes do.

A colour needs to be specified as xyB rather than RGB. And even then, it still doesn’t exactly cover the colour space seen by deuteranomaly trichromats, because the spectrum is an arbitrary continuous function and therefore not describable by just three numbers.

> quote=JudgeMental

those Pantone colours are the base colours you use to mix the colours in the PMS book. They aren’t “primary” colours.

>/quote

Brilliant. That’s exactly what I’m looking for. :-)

Now to see if there’s one that it outside the RGB triangle, eg. one with x below 0.13.

So called “primary colours” aren’t primary either. Neither in RGB, CMYK nor in any other system I know of.

buffy said:

A deuteranomalous person is called a deuteranomal.

You may be a dichromat or a deuteranomalous trichromat. You probably are a deuteranomal, lots more of them than deuteranopes. Deuteranomoly runs in my family. I suspect I’m a carrier, I’m a poor colour matcher.

——————————————————————————————————————-
The well known term red-green color blindness is actually split into two different subtypes. On one side persons which either lack or have anomalous long wavelength sensitive cones (protan color vision deficiency), which are more responsible for the red part of vision. And on the other side deutan color vision deficiencies, which again are split into two different types:

Dichromats: Deuteranopia (also called green-blind). In this case the medium wavelength sensitive cones (green) are missing at all. A deuteranope can only distinguish 2 to 3 different hues, whereas somebody with normal vision sees 7 different hues. Anomalous Trichromats: Deuteranomaly (green-weak). This can be everything between almost normal color vision and deuteranopia. The green sensitive cones are not missing in this case, but the peak of sensitivity is moved towards the red sensitive cones —————————————————————————————

Description lifted from:

https://www.color-blindness.com/deuteranopia-red-green-color-blindness/

> deuteranomalous trichromat. The green sensitive cones are not missing in this case, but the peak of sensitivity is moved towards the red sensitive cones

This one.

> Deuteranomoly runs in my family. I suspect I’m a carrier, I’m a poor colour matcher.

There’s an easy test. Close one eye and check colour matching. Then close the other and repeat.

Carriers that aren’t tetrachromats have perfectly normal colour vision so have perfectly normal colour matching ability.

mollwollfumble said:

Brilliant. That’s exactly what I’m looking for. :-)

Now to see if there’s one that it outside the RGB triangle, eg. one with x below 0.13.

So called “primary colours” aren’t primary either. Neither in RGB, CMYK nor in any other system I know of.

We (printers) don’t call them primary colours either. If they are for four colour work then they are process red or magenta, process yellow etc.

Obviously these are only approximations in RGB space to the real Pantone colours, which are dyes not screen pixels.

Let’s see how I see these screen pixels.

There’s no way that that “Pantone Violet” looks anything like violet. I’d call it olive green. “Pantone Violet” looks more green than “Pantone Green” which is bordering on brown.

“Pantone Warm Red” and “Pantone Red” look almost identical, and both look orange not red.

“Pantone Rubine Red” is brown.

“Pantone Rhodamine Red” is a shade of pink.

I don’t see a true “blue” colour on the chart. Pantone Blue and Pantone Process Blue look purplish blue, it’s hard for me to distinguish which one is more purplish.

“Pantone Reflex Blue” has a lot of grey mixed in with the blue.

“Pantone Purple” is at least purple, but is well on the pink side of pure purple.

I see “Pantone Yellow” and “Pantone Yellow 012” as yellows, but both are far different from what I’d call a pure yellow. Both have a little pale grey mixed in with them.

Pantone Orange is perfect.

:-)

Now where can I buy these?

mollwollfumble said:

Obviously these are only approximations in RGB space to the real Pantone colours, which are dyes not screen pixels.

Let’s see how I see these screen pixels.

There’s no way that that “Pantone Violet” looks anything like violet. I’d call it olive green. “Pantone Violet” looks more green than “Pantone Green” which is bordering on brown.

“Pantone Warm Red” and “Pantone Red” look almost identical, and both look orange not red.

“Pantone Rubine Red” is brown.

“Pantone Rhodamine Red” is a shade of pink.

I don’t see a true “blue” colour on the chart. Pantone Blue and Pantone Process Blue look purplish blue, it’s hard for me to distinguish which one is more purplish.

“Pantone Reflex Blue” has a lot of grey mixed in with the blue.

“Pantone Purple” is at least purple, but is well on the pink side of pure purple.

I see “Pantone Yellow” and “Pantone Yellow 012” as yellows, but both are far different from what I’d call a pure yellow. Both have a little pale grey mixed in with them.

Pantone Orange is perfect.

:-)

Now where can I buy these?

you are looking at these colours completely wrong.

JudgeMental said:

you are looking at these colours completely wrong.

Please correct me.

My personal opinion is that a lot of what is normally taught as colour theory fails to work for deuteranomalous people.
So a new colour theory is needed that does work for deuteranomalous people.

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

you are looking at these colours completely wrong.

Please correct me.

My personal opinion is that a lot of what is normally taught as colour theory fails to work for deuteranomalous people.
So a new colour theory is needed that does work for deuteranomalous people.

Pantone is just the industry standard colour guide. You have the formula for that colour and its number. It is purely to get a consistent result across the industry. The colours used to mix the Pantone colours do not represent anything except they too are standard colours. Otherwise you wouldn’t get your Pantone colours. Nothing to do with colour theory or anything else. It is like a customer coming into Bunnings with a paint chip they want matched. The paint used to match that colour chip has nothing to do with anything but being the ingredients to get that colour.

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

you are looking at these colours completely wrong.

Please correct me.

My personal opinion is that a lot of what is normally taught as colour theory fails to work for deuteranomalous people.
So a new colour theory is needed that does work for deuteranomalous people.

Seems reasonable.

Mu only contribution to the debate is that in art painting classes the primary colours are still taught as being Red, Yellow, Blue, but the “red” that is typically used is pretty close to magenta, and the “blue” is pretty close to cyan.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

you are looking at these colours completely wrong.

Please correct me.

My personal opinion is that a lot of what is normally taught as colour theory fails to work for deuteranomalous people.
So a new colour theory is needed that does work for deuteranomalous people.

Seems reasonable.

Mu only contribution to the debate is that in art painting classes the primary colours are still taught as being Red, Yellow, Blue, but the “red” that is typically used is pretty close to magenta, and the “blue” is pretty close to cyan.

and in printing we use magenta and cyan. and again, they do not represent any “colour theory” but are purely the best colours to get the finished result.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Please correct me.

My personal opinion is that a lot of what is normally taught as colour theory fails to work for deuteranomalous people.
So a new colour theory is needed that does work for deuteranomalous people.

Seems reasonable.

Mu only contribution to the debate is that in art painting classes the primary colours are still taught as being Red, Yellow, Blue, but the “red” that is typically used is pretty close to magenta, and the “blue” is pretty close to cyan.

and in printing we use magenta and cyan. and again, they do not represent any “colour theory” but are purely the best colours to get the finished result.

I have no idea what your point is.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Seems reasonable.

Mu only contribution to the debate is that in art painting classes the primary colours are still taught as being Red, Yellow, Blue, but the “red” that is typically used is pretty close to magenta, and the “blue” is pretty close to cyan.

and in printing we use magenta and cyan. and again, they do not represent any “colour theory” but are purely the best colours to get the finished result.

I have no idea what your point is.

well I guess you miss out then.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

and in printing we use magenta and cyan. and again, they do not represent any “colour theory” but are purely the best colours to get the finished result.

I have no idea what your point is.

well I guess you miss out then.

The point in printing is that the three chemical mixes chosen for the print-head colours CMY are selected so that together they give the best quality black.
Whereas with RGB the pixels are chosen with three chemical mixes that together give the best quality white.

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I have no idea what your point is.

well I guess you miss out then.

The point in printing is that the three chemical mixes chosen for the print-head colours CMY are selected so that together they give the best quality black.
Whereas with RGB the pixels are chosen with three chemical mixes that together give the best quality white.

Yeah, nah. The process inks before they introduced black into the mix were different to the CMYK ones. That is why we use black. Before it was just a dark brown.