Doing my own research on the Internet, I discover that my excellent idea of electric hybrid cars with a decent sized battery, so that you only need to use petrol on the occasional long trip, has already been thought of by others, and there are plenty of cars on the market with this feature, going under the name plug-in hybrid.

So my question is, for my next car should I go for hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or full electric?

Are you being serious that you were unaware that hybrids were already a thing? They are, unlike full plug in electric vehicles, a major part of the Australian market and have been for 15 years or more. Or are you making a joke?

Pardon… I misread your first post. Forgive the truculence.

As to what you should buy I suppose it depends on what your budget, driving needs and reasons are. The environmental impact depends on where you live: Victorian power remains dirtyy as shit such that your emissions will be lower if you rely on petrol rather than electricity. If you do a lot of long journeys you’ll find the plugin hybrid more convenient than a full plugin electric.

I’d not heard of a PHEV.

Is this what you had in mind?..

dv said:

Are you being serious that you were unaware that hybrids were already a thing? They are, unlike full plug in electric vehicles, a major part of the Australian market and have been for 15 years or more. Or are you making a joke?

I knew about hybrids, but I was under the impression that they all relied on the engine to charge the battery, so all the energy still comes from fossil fuels, rather than charging a larger battery from the mains so use of the petrol engine is only required for longer trips.

Ian said:

I’d not heard of a PHEV.

Is this what you had in mind?..

Isn’t that full electric?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Ian said:

I’d not heard of a PHEV.

Is this what you had in mind?..

Isn’t that full electric?

No.

That’s why the bloke in the back seat is facing rearwards.

Makes it easy for him to jump off and push when the batteries go flat.

So, it’s a sort of hybrid drive

dv said:

Pardon… I misread your first post. Forgive the truculence.

As to what you should buy I suppose it depends on what your budget, driving needs and reasons are. The environmental impact depends on where you live: Victorian power remains dirtyy as shit such that your emissions will be lower if you rely on petrol rather than electricity. If you do a lot of long journeys you’ll find the plugin hybrid more convenient than a full plugin electric.

I live in NSW, but I’m working on the basis that everywhere will soon have an option to plug into charging mode which operates when there is excess solar/wind available and automatically switches off when they need to use dirty supply.

Check the range for PHEVs. Many of them have 150 km or less electric range.

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Ian said:

I’d not heard of a PHEV.

Is this what you had in mind?..

Isn’t that full electric?

No.

That’s why the bloke in the back seat is facing rearwards.

Makes it easy for him to jump off and push when the batteries go flat.

So, it’s a sort of hybrid drive

Ah, good practical system then :)

Michael V said:

Check the range for PHEVs. Many of them have 150 km or less electric range.

Yeah, that’s fine.

Most of the time I’m doing no more that 50 km round trip, so it’s only the odd trip outside the city where the petrol would need to switch in.

I have a water powered landy for sale if you are interested

Zarkov said:

I have a water powered landy for sale if you are interested

How about a car you can recharge from a pyramid?

captain_spalding said:

Zarkov said:

I have a water powered landy for sale if you are interested

How about a car you can recharge from a pyramid?

It would need good range. Giza is about 13,000 km away.

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Zarkov said:

I have a water powered landy for sale if you are interested

How about a car you can recharge from a pyramid?

It would need good range. Giza is about 13,000 km away.

Why not a lightning rod on the back bumper. Park it in the middle of the paddock during a thunderstorm, hey what but.

How may kms would you get out of just one lighting bolt recharge?

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

Zarkov said:

I have a water powered landy for sale if you are interested

How about a car you can recharge from a pyramid?

It would need good range. Giza is about 13,000 km away.

I was thinking of maybe building my own scale model of the Great Pyramid in my backyard, and tapping into that really hip pyramid energy.

captain_spalding said:

Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

How about a car you can recharge from a pyramid?

It would need good range. Giza is about 13,000 km away.

I was thinking of maybe building my own scale model of the Great Pyramid in my backyard, and tapping into that really hip pyramid energy.

Where would you get the Gopher wood?

This should probably go in here too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-20/high-cost-of-insurance-for-electric-vehicles-affecting-ev-uptake/100999226

I didn’t know that.

buffy said:

This should probably go in here too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-20/high-cost-of-insurance-for-electric-vehicles-affecting-ev-uptake/100999226

I didn’t know that.

That looks very much like someone trying to justify dodgy decisions.

buffy said:

This should probably go in here too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-20/high-cost-of-insurance-for-electric-vehicles-affecting-ev-uptake/100999226

I didn’t know that.

I was just about to do the same thing.

Something for The Rev to consider.

buffy said:

This should probably go in here too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-20/high-cost-of-insurance-for-electric-vehicles-affecting-ev-uptake/100999226

I didn’t know that.

“Electric vehicle insurance costs are expensive for good reason”

They seem to have left a “no” out of that headline.

Victoria has unfriendly terms these days.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Doing my own research on the Internet, I discover that my excellent idea of electric hybrid cars with a decent sized battery, so that you only need to use petrol on the occasional long trip, has already been thought of by others, and there are plenty of cars on the market with this feature, going under the name plug-in hybrid.

So my question is, for my next car should I go for hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or full electric?

Hmm, tough question.

My approach in the past has been to go for the cheapest car I can fit into in the front and back seats. (I’m over 6 foot two)
That generally insures that the car has great fuel consumption.

But I did luck out with Honda, it’s a little more expensive but this Honda lasts fully twice as long as any other car I’ve had (Holden, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota etc.) as well as lowest fuel consumption I’ve had, and more than average power to weight ratio. The other good thing is that despite the Honda’s smallest exterior dimensions it will easily fit five or so full size house doors inside, and other big items.

I made a mistake with Suzuki because the great fuel consumption in the sales brochure cost more when I factored in that it couldn’t run on 91 octane or e10.

Toyota Corolla offers a hybrid that isn’t a plug-in hybrid. That surprised me, but it drives exactly like a petrol car with lower fuel consumption.

So, why not the cheapest hybrid you can fit everything you need to fit into?

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Doing my own research on the Internet, I discover that my excellent idea of electric hybrid cars with a decent sized battery, so that you only need to use petrol on the occasional long trip, has already been thought of by others, and there are plenty of cars on the market with this feature, going under the name plug-in hybrid.

So my question is, for my next car should I go for hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or full electric?

Hmm, tough question.

My approach in the past has been to go for the cheapest car I can fit into in the front and back seats. (I’m over 6 foot two)
That generally insures that the car has great fuel consumption.

But I did luck out with Honda, it’s a little more expensive but this Honda lasts fully twice as long as any other car I’ve had (Holden, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota etc.) as well as lowest fuel consumption I’ve had, and more than average power to weight ratio. The other good thing is that despite the Honda’s smallest exterior dimensions it will easily fit five or so full size house doors inside, and other big items.

I made a mistake with Suzuki because the great fuel consumption in the sales brochure cost more when I factored in that it couldn’t run on 91 octane or e10.

Toyota Corolla offers a hybrid that isn’t a plug-in hybrid. That surprised me, but it drives exactly like a petrol car with lower fuel consumption.

So, why not the cheapest hybrid you can fit everything you need to fit into?

(Checking new car prices).
New car prices start at $17,500
No hybrid cars under $31,000
No fully electric cars under $53,000
So an electric car costs at least as much as three times as much as a petrol car.
There’s no way that an electric car is worth that much more.

A hybrid car, costs 75% more than a petrol car. Not easy to even justify that difference in price.
Now the $17,500 petrol car has a fuel consumption of 4.7 L/100km.
The $31,000 hybrid car has a fuel consumption of 4.2 L/100km, only 11% less fuel usage.
There’s no way on Earth you’re going to get that $13,500 difference in price back as a fuel saving.

Burning money by overpaying for a car isn’t just bad for your pocket. It’s bad for the Earth as well because a fair fraction of that money is going into non-renewable resource costs. Into car mass and fitments.

The last car I bought for myself I bought new for $12,888.
Try telling me that I paid too much for that.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Doing my own research on the Internet, I discover that my excellent idea of electric hybrid cars with a decent sized battery, so that you only need to use petrol on the occasional long trip, has already been thought of by others, and there are plenty of cars on the market with this feature, going under the name plug-in hybrid.

So my question is, for my next car should I go for hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or full electric?

Hmm, tough question.

My approach in the past has been to go for the cheapest car I can fit into in the front and back seats. (I’m over 6 foot two)
That generally insures that the car has great fuel consumption.

But I did luck out with Honda, it’s a little more expensive but this Honda lasts fully twice as long as any other car I’ve had (Holden, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota etc.) as well as lowest fuel consumption I’ve had, and more than average power to weight ratio. The other good thing is that despite the Honda’s smallest exterior dimensions it will easily fit five or so full size house doors inside, and other big items.

I made a mistake with Suzuki because the great fuel consumption in the sales brochure cost more when I factored in that it couldn’t run on 91 octane or e10.

Toyota Corolla offers a hybrid that isn’t a plug-in hybrid. That surprised me, but it drives exactly like a petrol car with lower fuel consumption.

So, why not the cheapest hybrid you can fit everything you need to fit into?

(Checking new car prices).
New car prices start at $17,500
No hybrid cars under $31,000
No fully electric cars under $53,000
So an electric car costs at least as much as three times as much as a petrol car.
There’s no way that an electric car is worth that much more.

A hybrid car, costs 75% more than a petrol car. Not easy to even justify that difference in price.
Now the $17,500 petrol car has a fuel consumption of 4.7 L/100km.
The $31,000 hybrid car has a fuel consumption of 4.2 L/100km, only 11% less fuel usage.
There’s no way on Earth you’re going to get that $13,500 difference in price back as a fuel saving.

Burning money by overpaying for a car isn’t just bad for your pocket. It’s bad for the Earth as well because a fair fraction of that money is going into non-renewable resource costs. Into car mass and fitments.

The last car I bought for myself I bought new for $12,888.
Try telling me that I paid too much for that.

I suspect you may not be comparing like for like their, but I agree that the greater fuel efficiency of a pure hybrid is not worth the price.

I think a plug-in hybrid is probably the way to go.

(and when did you get a new car for $12,888?)

Talking of just having to laugh, when I binge “cheapest electric car Australia” the first hit is from Mercedes Benz, followed by Porsche.

Seems like a reasonable price comparison here:

“Although the Renault Zoe held the crown for cheapest EV in Australia for a good while, MG Motor has swooped in with its medium all-electric SUV, the MG ZS EV, to take the title of the country’s cheapest EV, with an original price starting from $40,990 (for comparison, the ZS EV is based on the petrol-powered ZS Essence, which goes for $26,490). “

So 55% more for full electric.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Seems like a reasonable price comparison here:

“Although the Renault Zoe held the crown for cheapest EV in Australia for a good while, MG Motor has swooped in with its medium all-electric SUV, the MG ZS EV, to take the title of the country’s cheapest EV, with an original price starting from $40,990 (for comparison, the ZS EV is based on the petrol-powered ZS Essence, which goes for $26,490). “

So 55% more for full electric.

Same report says it’s a good idea to wait a while for prices to come down and driving range to go up.
https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/cheapest-electric-car-in-australia-83651

The Rev Dodgson said:

Most of the time I’m doing no more that 50 km round trip, so it’s only the odd trip outside the city where the petrol would need to switch in.

Get a Nissan Leaf. The later ones have a pretty reasonable range so for your typical use during the week you’d probably have to charge it about once per week. For longer trips it’s not a great time penalty to get a good charge into them.

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Most of the time I’m doing no more that 50 km round trip, so it’s only the odd trip outside the city where the petrol would need to switch in.

Get a Nissan Leaf. The later ones have a pretty reasonable range so for your typical use during the week you’d probably have to charge it about once per week. For longer trips it’s not a great time penalty to get a good charge into them.

Do batteries have to charge in the car ?
Can/could you get a spare one you charge whilst the car is in use.
I’m assuming no for a number of reasons, cost, weight, integrated into the car and not easily removed

Cymek said:

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Most of the time I’m doing no more that 50 km round trip, so it’s only the odd trip outside the city where the petrol would need to switch in.

Get a Nissan Leaf. The later ones have a pretty reasonable range so for your typical use during the week you’d probably have to charge it about once per week. For longer trips it’s not a great time penalty to get a good charge into them.

Do batteries have to charge in the car ?
Can/could you get a spare one you charge whilst the car is in use.
I’m assuming no for a number of reasons, cost, weight, integrated into the car and not easily removed

There are no EV cars in Australia with swappable batteries.
There is, however, a new truck company that’s doing it – https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/29/swap-and-go-electric-trucks-to-run-between-sydney-and-brisbane-using-exchangeable-batteries

Zinc

dv said:

Zinc

OK i haff been zinking for zer liddle vhile now. Vot should i haff zought off?

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Most of the time I’m doing no more that 50 km round trip, so it’s only the odd trip outside the city where the petrol would need to switch in.

Get a Nissan Leaf. The later ones have a pretty reasonable range so for your typical use during the week you’d probably have to charge it about once per week. For longer trips it’s not a great time penalty to get a good charge into them.

Not cheap, though.

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

Zinc

OK i haff been zinking for zer liddle vhile now. Vot should i haff zought off?

nartink.

Michael V said:

Spiny Norman said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Most of the time I’m doing no more that 50 km round trip, so it’s only the odd trip outside the city where the petrol would need to switch in.

Get a Nissan Leaf. The later ones have a pretty reasonable range so for your typical use during the week you’d probably have to charge it about once per week. For longer trips it’s not a great time penalty to get a good charge into them.

Not cheap, though.

Most states offer various kinds of rebates to get one. And I wouldn’t buy a new one, get one that’s a couple of years old.

Leaf battery has an 8 year 160000km warranty: replacing it will be $10000. There’s one on carsales for $24000 that is 5 years old and 520000 km down. But if you want new then there’s a $3000 rebate available in NSW, after which the base price model (40kW) is $51000, which is still quite a lot for a smallish car but it does have fancy features.

dv said:

Leaf battery has an 8 year 160000km warranty: replacing it will be $10000. There’s one on carsales for $24000 that is 5 years old and 520000 km down. But if you want new then there’s a $3000 rebate available in NSW, after which the base price model (40kW) is $51000, which is still quite a lot for a smallish car but it does have fancy features.

Do they charge in reasonable time from home power supplies

Cymek said:

dv said:

Leaf battery has an 8 year 160000km warranty: replacing it will be $10000. There’s one on carsales for $24000 that is 5 years old and 520000 km down. But if you want new then there’s a $3000 rebate available in NSW, after which the base price model (40kW) is $51000, which is still quite a lot for a smallish car but it does have fancy features.

Do they charge in reasonable time from home power supplies

These are the times taken to charge from 20% to 80% depending on what level of gear you invest in.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Leaf battery has an 8 year 160000km warranty: replacing it will be $10000. There’s one on carsales for $24000 that is 5 years old and 520000 km down. But if you want new then there’s a $3000 rebate available in NSW, after which the base price model (40kW) is $51000, which is still quite a lot for a smallish car but it does have fancy features.

Do they charge in reasonable time from home power supplies

Slowly, but they get there. Usually overnight gives you enough range for most trips.

dv said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

Leaf battery has an 8 year 160000km warranty: replacing it will be $10000. There’s one on carsales for $24000 that is 5 years old and 520000 km down. But if you want new then there’s a $3000 rebate available in NSW, after which the base price model (40kW) is $51000, which is still quite a lot for a smallish car but it does have fancy features.

Do they charge in reasonable time from home power supplies

These are the times taken to charge from 20% to 80% depending on what level of gear you invest in.

What battery capacity is that for though? They vary from about 24 kW/h up to 100 kW/h.

Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

Do they charge in reasonable time from home power supplies

These are the times taken to charge from 20% to 80% depending on what level of gear you invest in.

What battery capacity is that for though? They vary from about 24 kW/h up to 100 kW/h.

Ah never mind, I get it now.
I suck with electric gear sorry.

https://bigthink.com/the-future/lithium-sulfur-batteries/

Link

I think this has been mentioned here before.

By the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

I liked the Mitsubishi MiEV. It became available in 2010.

It has exactly the right combination of high tech, light weight, small exterior and large interior space.
It is a fresh design that is not just a conventional heavy old-fashioned car with a motor swap.

Annoyingly, this electric vehicle was only ever released for fleet use in Australia. It was never released for the general public :-(

mollwollfumble said:

By the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

I liked the Mitsubishi MiEV. It became available in 2010.

It has exactly the right combination of high tech, light weight, small exterior and large interior space.
It is a fresh design that is not just a conventional heavy old-fashioned car with a motor swap.

Annoyingly, this electric vehicle was only ever released for fleet use in Australia. It was never released for the general public :-(

Like the Tardis?

mollwollfumble said:

By the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

I liked the Mitsubishi MiEV. It became available in 2010.

It has exactly the right combination of high tech, light weight, small exterior and large interior space.
It is a fresh design that is not just a conventional heavy old-fashioned car with a motor swap.

Annoyingly, this electric vehicle was only ever released for fleet use in Australia. It was never released for the general public :-(

There was an electric vehicle some years back the GM had on the road in the US.

You couldn’t buy one, only lease it from GM.

People who had one loved it, and sang its praises.

Then, GM suddenly ‘terminated the project’ and cancelled all of the leases and recovered all of the cars, despite protestations from the drivers and offers to buy them outright.

IIRC, GM destroyed almost all the cars, and never made anymore.

mollwollfumble said:

By the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

I liked the Mitsubishi MiEV. It became available in 2010.

It has exactly the right combination of high tech, light weight, small exterior and large interior space.
It is a fresh design that is not just a conventional heavy old-fashioned car with a motor swap.

Annoyingly, this electric vehicle was only ever released for fleet use in Australia. It was never released for the general public :-(

This:
https://www.carsguide.com.au/mitsubishi/i-miev#price

says they were available from 2012 to 2016 (over which time the price doubled!)

there is the good car company if you want to go imported second hand..

captain_spalding said:

mollwollfumble said:

By the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

I liked the Mitsubishi MiEV. It became available in 2010.

It has exactly the right combination of high tech, light weight, small exterior and large interior space.
It is a fresh design that is not just a conventional heavy old-fashioned car with a motor swap.

Annoyingly, this electric vehicle was only ever released for fleet use in Australia. It was never released for the general public :-(

There was an electric vehicle some years back the GM had on the road in the US.

You couldn’t buy one, only lease it from GM.

People who had one loved it, and sang its praises.

Then, GM suddenly ‘terminated the project’ and cancelled all of the leases and recovered all of the cars, despite protestations from the drivers and offers to buy them outright.

IIRC, GM destroyed almost all the cars, and never made anymore.

You thinking they became self aware took over the world and then someone came back from the future to warn us and we listened

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

mollwollfumble said:

By the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

I liked the Mitsubishi MiEV. It became available in 2010.

It has exactly the right combination of high tech, light weight, small exterior and large interior space.
It is a fresh design that is not just a conventional heavy old-fashioned car with a motor swap.

Annoyingly, this electric vehicle was only ever released for fleet use in Australia. It was never released for the general public :-(

There was an electric vehicle some years back the GM had on the road in the US.

You couldn’t buy one, only lease it from GM.

People who had one loved it, and sang its praises.

Then, GM suddenly ‘terminated the project’ and cancelled all of the leases and recovered all of the cars, despite protestations from the drivers and offers to buy them outright.

IIRC, GM destroyed almost all the cars, and never made anymore.

You thinking they became self aware took over the world and then someone came back from the future to warn us and we listened

_{you’ve said too much}

Cymek said:

You thinking they became self aware took over the world and then someone came back from the future to warn us and we listened

More likely that GM realised that they’d accidentally come up with a good and popular product that didn’t fit in with their ideas on how the car industry ought to operate, and decided to kill it before it took hold.

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

You thinking they became self aware took over the world and then someone came back from the future to warn us and we listened

More likely that GM realised that they’d accidentally come up with a good and popular product that didn’t fit in with their ideas on how the car industry ought to operate, and decided to kill it before it took hold.

Yes I was thinking perhaps its too efficient and not good for business

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

You thinking they became self aware took over the world and then someone came back from the future to warn us and we listened

More likely that GM realised that they’d accidentally come up with a good and popular product that didn’t fit in with their ideas on how the car industry ought to operate, and decided to kill it before it took hold.

It was made famous by the doco ‘Who Killed the Electric Car?’ IIRC the car and/or battery caused more emissions in production that it saved in usage.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

You thinking they became self aware took over the world and then someone came back from the future to warn us and we listened

More likely that GM realised that they’d accidentally come up with a good and popular product that didn’t fit in with their ideas on how the car industry ought to operate, and decided to kill it before it took hold.

It was made famous by the doco ‘Who Killed the Electric Car?’ IIRC the car and/or battery caused more emissions in production that it saved in usage.

Well, that might be part of it, too.

Sorry, off topic.

Can anyone identify this car?

mollwollfumble said:

Sorry, off topic.

Can anyone identify this car?

Oldsmobile Aerotech

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

Sorry, off topic.

Can anyone identify this car?

Oldsmobile Aerotech

Ta.

mollwollfumble said:

Sorry, off topic.

Can anyone identify this car?

Looks like a one-off prototype.

mollwollfumble said:

Sorry, off topic.

Can anyone identify this car?

It’s not a car, it’s a bottle opener.