Date: 23/04/2022 12:27:00
From: dv
ID: 1875940
Subject: Grand Inga Dam

The planned Grand Inga Dam hydroelectric scheme in the Democratic Republic of Congo will be the biggest power plant in the world.

When completed, almost the entire 40000 cubic metre per second flow of the Congo river, with its catchment area about half the size of Australia, will be directed over a dam with a drop of 155 metres. Mean output will be 50 GW, more than twice that of Three Gorges in China.

This will be considerably greater than the present power needs of the DRC, which are about 1 GW mean, and the power will be sold on throughout Subsaharan Africa from Nigeria to South Africa.

Fortescue will be playing the lead role in construction.

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:28:45
From: sibeen
ID: 1875943
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

What is the storage capacity?

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:32:45
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1875947
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

and to think we used to complain about economic diplomacy

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:37:26
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1875950
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

Financing
The total construction bill for Grand Inga has been calculated to be as high as $80 billion. The World Bank, the European Investment Bank and the African Development Bank, have provided funding for feasibility and environmental impact studies. In 2016, the World Bank cancelled its support for the Grand Inga Project. It is expected that the power stations will be developed as a public private partnership project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Inga_Dam

Surprised China doesn’t have a finger in this pie.

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:39:02
From: dv
ID: 1875951
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

sibeen said:


What is the storage capacity?

I don’t know but it appears to have a small reservoir planned.

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:40:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1875954
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

Witty Rejoinder said:


Financing
The total construction bill for Grand Inga has been calculated to be as high as $80 billion. The World Bank, the European Investment Bank and the African Development Bank, have provided funding for feasibility and environmental impact studies. In 2016, the World Bank cancelled its support for the Grand Inga Project. It is expected that the power stations will be developed as a public private partnership project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Inga_Dam

Surprised China doesn’t have a finger in this pie.

they don’t do democratic republics oh wait

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:43:01
From: Tamb
ID: 1875957
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

dv said:


sibeen said:

What is the storage capacity?

I don’t know but it appears to have a small reservoir planned.

The Grand Inga Dam is a series of seven proposed hydroelectric power stations at the site of the Inga Falls, in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. If built as planned, the 40-70 GW project would be the largest power station in the world.
Wiki says: The project would involve building a dam across the south of the Bundi River valley where it meets the Congo, then diverting the Congo from above the waterfalls into the north of the valley to create a huge reservoir. It is anticipated that the vertical drop, the volume and velocity of water flow at this site, can support a series of hydroelectric power stations, each with generation capacity ranging from 4 to 8 GW for a total of 40 GW for the whole complex. Inga III Power Station with capacity of 4.8 GW, would be the first power station in the series, to be constructed. The current design allows for the independent development of the different power stations in the series, as well as the phased development of each station. Each of the seven dams could be owned by different investors.

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:46:03
From: dv
ID: 1875958
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

Although no doubt there will be some local environmental damage, I’m going to record this as good news, as it sets up a large swath of SubSaharan Africa to develop industrially without a huge GHG impact.

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:47:28
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1875961
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

dv said:

Although no doubt there will be some local environmental damage, I’m going to record this as good news, as it sets up a large swath of SubSaharan Africa to develop industrially without a huge GHG impact.

so yet again the poor African nations take a local environmental hit to save the world for the rich privileged scramblers

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:50:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 1875963
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

dv said:


Although no doubt there will be some local environmental damage, I’m going to record this as good news, as it sets up a large swath of SubSaharan Africa to develop industrially without a huge GHG impact.

We need an environmental impact study. These days we know so much about the impact which was much underestimated in the past.

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:53:07
From: dv
ID: 1875966
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

SCIENCE said:


dv said:

Although no doubt there will be some local environmental damage, I’m going to record this as good news, as it sets up a large swath of SubSaharan Africa to develop industrially without a huge GHG impact.

so yet again the poor African nations take a local environmental hit to save the world for the rich privileged scramblers

Well someone’s a Negative Nigel

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:55:32
From: Woodie
ID: 1875968
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

Witty Rejoinder said:


Financing
The total construction bill for Grand Inga has been calculated to be as high as $80 billion. The World Bank, the European Investment Bank and the African Development Bank, have provided funding for feasibility and environmental impact studies. In 2016, the World Bank cancelled its support for the Grand Inga Project. It is expected that the power stations will be developed as a public private partnership project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Inga_Dam

Surprised China doesn’t have a finger in this pie.

I only understand Sydney Harbour fulls. How may sydharbs is that?

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Date: 23/04/2022 12:57:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1875970
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

dv said:


SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Although no doubt there will be some local environmental damage, I’m going to record this as good news, as it sets up a large swath of SubSaharan Africa to develop industrially without a huge GHG impact.

so yet again the poor African nations take a local environmental hit to save the world for the rich privileged scramblers

Well someone’s a Negative Nigel

can’t be a Chad every day

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Date: 23/04/2022 13:03:06
From: Woodie
ID: 1875974
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

Woodie said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Financing
The total construction bill for Grand Inga has been calculated to be as high as $80 billion. The World Bank, the European Investment Bank and the African Development Bank, have provided funding for feasibility and environmental impact studies. In 2016, the World Bank cancelled its support for the Grand Inga Project. It is expected that the power stations will be developed as a public private partnership project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Inga_Dam

Surprised China doesn’t have a finger in this pie.

I only understand Sydney Harbour fulls. How may sydharbs is that?

I understand from recent media reports, that one Lismore Flood Full, = two sydharbs.

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Date: 23/04/2022 13:06:14
From: dv
ID: 1875977
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

Per WP and re Sibeen’s question:

Grand Inga is a “run-of-the-river” hydroelectric project in which only a relatively small reservoir would be created to back up the power of the river’s flow. This would be so that the net head for the hydroelectric turbines could approach 150 metres.

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Date: 23/04/2022 13:08:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1875979
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

dv said:


Per WP and re Sibeen’s question:

Grand Inga is a “run-of-the-river” hydroelectric project in which only a relatively small reservoir would be created to back up the power of the river’s flow. This would be so that the net head for the hydroelectric turbines could approach 150 metres.


Gotcha.

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Date: 23/04/2022 13:10:19
From: sibeen
ID: 1875980
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

dv said:


Per WP and re Sibeen’s question:

Grand Inga is a “run-of-the-river” hydroelectric project in which only a relatively small reservoir would be created to back up the power of the river’s flow. This would be so that the net head for the hydroelectric turbines could approach 150 metres.


Cheers.

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Date: 23/04/2022 13:10:46
From: Tamb
ID: 1875982
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

roughbarked said:


dv said:

Per WP and re Sibeen’s question:

Grand Inga is a “run-of-the-river” hydroelectric project in which only a relatively small reservoir would be created to back up the power of the river’s flow. This would be so that the net head for the hydroelectric turbines could approach 150 metres.


Gotcha.


4000 m^3 per second. The Kareeya hydro is only 10 m^3 per second.

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Date: 23/04/2022 13:43:37
From: dv
ID: 1876002
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

dv said:

Per WP and re Sibeen’s question:

Grand Inga is a “run-of-the-river” hydroelectric project in which only a relatively small reservoir would be created to back up the power of the river’s flow. This would be so that the net head for the hydroelectric turbines could approach 150 metres.


Gotcha.


4000 m^3 per second. The Kareeya hydro is only 10 m^3 per second.

40000

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Date: 23/04/2022 16:13:10
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1876064
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

dv said:


SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Although no doubt there will be some local environmental damage, I’m going to record this as good news, as it sets up a large swath of SubSaharan Africa to develop industrially without a huge GHG impact.

so yet again the poor African nations take a local environmental hit to save the world for the rich privileged scramblers

Well someone’s a Negative Nigel

This what we have always done, fuck up a bit more of the world so we can make more money. Your attitude dv is one reason why we are in the environmental situation we find ourselves.

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Date: 23/04/2022 16:24:12
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1876069
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

SCIENCE said:

so yet again the poor African nations take a local environmental hit to save the world for the rich privileged scramblers

Well someone’s a Negative Nigel

This what we have always done, fuck up a bit more of the world so we can make more money. Your attitude dv is one reason why we are in the environmental situation we find ourselves.

>>The project would involve building a dam across the south of the Bundi River valley where it meets the Congo, then diverting the Congo from above the waterfalls into the north of the valley to create a huge reservoir. It is anticipated that the vertical drop, the volume and velocity of water flow at this site, can support a series of hydroelectric power stations, each with generation capacity ranging from 4 to 8 GW for a total of 40 GW for the whole complex. Inga III Power Station with capacity of 4.8 GW, would be the first power station in the series, to be constructed. The current design allows for the independent development of the different power stations in the series, as well as the phased development of each station. Each of the seven dams could be owned by different investors.

Wiki

We have got to stop destroying the environment in order to satisfy our gratification and convenience. There are too many of us and our overall impact is unsustainable!

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Date: 23/04/2022 22:24:14
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1876270
Subject: re: Grand Inga Dam

An aerial view of the semi-functional Grand Inga dam.

What do they mean by semi-functional?

“Inga Falls on the Congo River is a group of rapids … The Inga Dams are two hydroelectric dams … Inga Falls is currently the site of two large hydro power plants … “Inga I was completed in 1972, and Inga II in 1982” … Grand Inga is a “run-of-the-river” hydroelectric project in which only a relatively small reservoir would be created to back up the power of the river’s flow. … Inga I has a total installed capacity of 351 MW and Inga II has 1424 MW … the two existing dams have fallen into disrepair” so are operating at low power. So it looks like a case of fix it or lose it.

“Inga-Shaba power line … A mix of private and public groups provided the financing, notably Citibank, Hanover Trust, and the U.S. Export-Import Bank, and it was the storied Boise, Idaho-based company, Morrison-Knudsen, that was contracted to do the work.

“The 1954 book Engineers’ Dreams listed a host of massive projects that could theoretically be accomplished (among them the future Channel Tunnel)”.

Book review https://www.amazon.com/Engineers-Dreams-Willy-Ley-1954-06-03/dp/B01F81U52S

“Ley, Willy 1954: Engineers’ Dreams, The Viking Press, New York. Numerous massive projects, such as placing a dam across the straits of Gibraltar, converting the Sahara into an irrigated plain, a Jordan Valley project, the Channel Tunnel. Some were brought to semi-reality such as using icebergs for landing fields during WW-II. Others not mentioned by Ley are: an undersea pipeline to bring water from Alaska to California; an overland channel from Alaska down a central part of the Rocky Mountains to irrigate the upper Canadian and U.S. midwest, the U.S. western plains, with a continuation to the Mexican Sonora Desert, and Parsons Engineering Proposal tunnels under the Bering Strait between Russia and Alaska, proposed by a builder of the Japanese tunnel between its two largest islands, among others; fleets of floating nuclear power plants proposed by Russians; massive transportation and water projects linking Europe and Asia: project to link the Danube to the rivers of northern Europe.

Local weather modification using a mile-high tower proposed at the Technion in Israel, The Economist June 25th 1994, p. 87; one of the greatest intellects of our time, John Von Neumann has suggested that we will eventually control our weather – see Von Neumann in the bibliography for the citation; huge tree-planting programs in China to reduce dust storms in the Gobi Desert 300 million trees already planted have reduced dust storms from 10-20 per year in Beijing to fewer than five; bridge across the Bering Strait. These examples, some done, some undone are as illustrations of the point that our incentive systems produce too many small innovations, and too few large ones. Stoneman 1987 has a detailed analysis of the real problems in financing innovation, with several citations to research results and to theoretical analyses. The basic problem is that innovation is risky, and in most cases, the social value of innovations cannot be captured by the innovator. Only government can do so. Others face severe limitations in financing projects and in capturing the social value. In addition, innovation upsets the status quo, and can be opposed on that basis by politically powerful groups.

For example, spreading the human habitat over the ocean surface would be opposed by land interests in any nation. Land owners are used to capturing all benefits due to otherwise good government or from local resources, good climate, etc., and don’t want to have this diluted. See also Fölster 1988 for ways to try to correct this. See also Conway 1997 Development Highlights of the Twentieth Century, . A good bird’s-eye view of projects, looking backwards, mostly. The forward look has nothing remotely resembling Ley’s depth, but has many interesting, large projects. The descriptions are brief, and say little about feasibility, e.g., page 78: *With the development of lighter and stronger materials and more efficient propulsion mechanisms, the age of human – powered flight will begin. The idea of putting a mirror in space to reflect sunlight to the northern latitudes. It will be deployed in February 1998; it is 82 feet in diameter; the shaft of sunlight will be about 1.5 miles wide.

See also Flyvbjerg et al 2003 for more megaprojects that HAVE been done, though nothing on the scale of the Bering Bridge or connecting the Danube to the Baltic.

Willy Ley was a science “popularize” who wrote in the 1950’s. This book was copyrighted in 1954, and I picked up the second edition in 1960. In terms of science, certainly a long time ago. It remains a fascinating read, and reasonably easy. There is nary an equation for the “mathphobes.”

Ley describes nine possible massive engineering projects. We’ve learned a bit in the intervening half century. The tradeoffs to the activities should be carefully weighed, and a rationale decision made.

One of the nine projects has been fully completed, for more than a decade and a half. At least two others are being very actively pursued. Others are still potentially viable, and a few, I think mercifully, have hit the proverbial “dustbin” of science. Ley proposed a tunnel between England and France, an idea that has been around since Napoleon’s time (which might have been one of the reasons for the delay in completion!) Ley expounds a solid engineering basis for its completion, with numerous instructive drawings. As we know, what is popularly called the “Chunnel” was completed in 1994, and it is a vast improvement in cross-Channel transport, and has had virtually no negative environmental impact. Bravo for that one.

Energy, particularly renewable energy, is a concern that has become ascendant. Ley was a “visionary” or sorts to be addressing these issues in the `50’s, when gas was 29 cents a gallon. There are chapters on two that are actively being pursued today: “power from the sun,” and “harnessing the winds.” In my latest drive across Texas I was impressed and amazed at the number of windmills in operation. Ley’s drawings did not envision the slender rotating blades of today, but he helped put the issue “on the agenda.” There are two other chapters that could be pursued with more vigor: one involves harnessing the power of volcanos; the other involves obtaining energy from the sea, both in terms of the power of waves, and the equally valid, but less appreciated power between the temperature differentials at various levels in the sea.

The three that hit the “dustbin”, and I would welcome any comments that they should not have, involved a massive transfer of water from the Mediterranean to the Dead Sea, with power plants along the way (in this chapter he proposed a similar scheme for Libya, and the Qattara Depression); another involved damming the Straits of Gibraltar, and lowering the Mediterranean by 330 ft! Don’t let the Real Estate agents know about this one… there sure would be a lot more to sell, including almost the entire present Adriatic Sea; and the third was wilder still, and involved the creation of massive lakes in the present-day Congo and Chad that would be a couple magnitudes larger than the ones there now, say Lake Victoria. Nary a thought about where the current inhabitants would go.

And there was one that science itself made obsolete: the building of artificial islands in the Atlantic to facilitate air transport. The long range jet obviated the need for that.

Ley was a visionary, with numerous constructive proposals to improve our lives.

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