We have discussed previously the copious contact between aboriginals of the Top End and the seafaring peoples of the Indonesian archipelago, particularly the Makassar and Buginese people, from the 16th century onward and possibly earlier. This contact ramped up considerably once the sea cucumber (trepang) trade began to mount in the 1600s, with China being the ultimate destination for much of the trepangs which were considered to have medicinal properties. The contact affected the material culture and language of the coastal aboriginal people. Yolngu-Matha, one of the languages of Arnhem Land, has over 200 words of Austronesian origin.

One thing I didn’t know much about until now was the presence of aboriginal people in Sulawesi: native Australians included in the crew of trepangers and visiting or staying in Makassar. This article gives quite a detailed history.

https://blast539.rssing.com/chan-4283662/latest.php
Dreamtime Voyagers

More information is given here.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt3fgjzc.12?seq=1
10. Tangible heritage of the Macassan–Aboriginal encounter in contemporary South Sulawesi (pp. 159-182)
Marshall Clark

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2894049/
The History of Makassan Trepang Fishing and Trade

So the Makassans and the aborigines got on. There was some part time employment. There was some procurement, exchange of goods cultural niceties.

Aborigines get pissed all the time and we’re racist so lets call the whole thing off.

dv said:

We have discussed previously the copious contact between aboriginals of the Top End and the seafaring peoples of the Indonesian archipelago, particularly the Makassar and Buginese people, from the 16th century onward and possibly earlier. This contact ramped up considerably once the sea cucumber (trepang) trade began to mount in the 1600s, with China being the ultimate destination for much of the trepangs which were considered to have medicinal properties. The contact affected the material culture and language of the coastal aboriginal people. Yolngu-Matha, one of the languages of Arnhem Land, has over 200 words of Austronesian origin.

One thing I didn’t know much about until now was the presence of aboriginal people in Sulawesi: native Australians included in the crew of trepangers and visiting or staying in Makassar. This article gives quite a detailed history.

https://blast539.rssing.com/chan-4283662/latest.php
Dreamtime Voyagers

More information is given here.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt3fgjzc.12?seq=1
10. Tangible heritage of the Macassan–Aboriginal encounter in contemporary South Sulawesi (pp. 159-182)
Marshall Clark

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2894049/
The History of Makassan Trepang Fishing and Trade

I didn’t know all of that but I was aware that lads and ladies from our land did travel at least that far abroad.

One thing that has always struck me as odd, is that if such trading with the northerners was common, then surely the aboriginals had seen bows and arrows and their effectiveness as weapons. And yet never made any.

One must imagine that the first sight of the port city of Macassae would have just about blown the minds of the aboriginal crew.

Dark Orange said:

One thing that has always struck me as odd, is that if such trading with the northerners was common, then surely the aboriginals had seen bows and arrows and their effectiveness as weapons. And yet never made any.

Perhaps they perceived either no use for them or maybe knew little of wood that could be bent like that?

Dark Orange said:

One thing that has always struck me as odd, is that if such trading with the northerners was common, then surely the aboriginals had seen bows and arrows and their effectiveness as weapons. And yet never made any.

Maybe they figured they were doing okay with their weapons. They did pick up some other techniques from the Macassans.

dv said:

Dark Orange said:

One thing that has always struck me as odd, is that if such trading with the northerners was common, then surely the aboriginals had seen bows and arrows and their effectiveness as weapons. And yet never made any.

Maybe they figured they were doing okay with their weapons. They did pick up some other techniques from the Macassans.

Including likely, the dingo.

dv said:

Dark Orange said:

One thing that has always struck me as odd, is that if such trading with the northerners was common, then surely the aboriginals had seen bows and arrows and their effectiveness as weapons. And yet never made any.

Maybe they figured they were doing okay with their weapons. They did pick up some other techniques from the Macassans.

Probably lose too many arrows in the bush.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Dark Orange said:

One thing that has always struck me as odd, is that if such trading with the northerners was common, then surely the aboriginals had seen bows and arrows and their effectiveness as weapons. And yet never made any.

Maybe they figured they were doing okay with their weapons. They did pick up some other techniques from the Macassans.

Probably lose too many arrows in the bush.

Under European forests or in dense jungle, there is usually little ground cover, so arrows are less likely to be lost, plus a smaller bow compared with a long spear is much easier to use in a confined jungle environment.

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Maybe they figured they were doing okay with their weapons. They did pick up some other techniques from the Macassans.

Probably lose too many arrows in the bush.

Under European forests or in dense jungle, there is usually little ground cover, so arrows are less likely to be lost, plus a smaller bow compared with a long spear is much easier to use in a confined jungle environment.

Yeah, out in the desert it would have been a fuck. Also, a spear is a device to stab an animal or a combatant with, I suspect that you really mean a javelin.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

Probably lose too many arrows in the bush.

Under European forests or in dense jungle, there is usually little ground cover, so arrows are less likely to be lost, plus a smaller bow compared with a long spear is much easier to use in a confined jungle environment.

Yeah, out in the desert it would have been a fuck. Also, a spear is a device to stab an animal or a combatant with, I suspect that you really mean a javelin.

You have long grass and bushes in the desert region where a short arrow would be easily lost. And yes I do mean a spear, which is what Aborigines used. I have never seen the term javelin used in relation to Aboriginal use.

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Under European forests or in dense jungle, there is usually little ground cover, so arrows are less likely to be lost, plus a smaller bow compared with a long spear is much easier to use in a confined jungle environment.

Yeah, out in the desert it would have been a fuck. Also, a spear is a device to stab an animal or a combatant with, I suspect that you really mean a javelin.

You have long grass and bushes in the desert region where a short arrow would be easily lost. And yes I do mean a spear, which is what Aborigines used. I have never seen the term javelin used in relation to Aboriginal use.

Nah, a javelin is a javelin and a spear is a spear. Don’t be ashamed, many people do confuse the two.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Yeah, out in the desert it would have been a fuck. Also, a spear is a device to stab an animal or a combatant with, I suspect that you really mean a javelin.

You have long grass and bushes in the desert region where a short arrow would be easily lost. And yes I do mean a spear, which is what Aborigines used. I have never seen the term javelin used in relation to Aboriginal use.

Nah, a javelin is a javelin and a spear is a spear. Don’t be ashamed, many people do confuse the two.

Have you heard of a Spear Thrower also called a Woomera. Please note it is NOT a javelin thrower, in fact a javelin is thrown without any other device to aid its flight. So don’t be ashamed sibeen, I don’t think many confuse the two, but obviously some do.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Dark Orange said:

One thing that has always struck me as odd, is that if such trading with the northerners was common, then surely the aboriginals had seen bows and arrows and their effectiveness as weapons. And yet never made any.

Maybe they figured they were doing okay with their weapons. They did pick up some other techniques from the Macassans.

Probably lose too many arrows in the bush.

Ain’t that the case. That’s why I prefer indoor target to field archery.

:)

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Yeah, out in the desert it would have been a fuck. Also, a spear is a device to stab an animal or a combatant with, I suspect that you really mean a javelin.

You have long grass and bushes in the desert region where a short arrow would be easily lost. And yes I do mean a spear, which is what Aborigines used. I have never seen the term javelin used in relation to Aboriginal use.

Nah, a javelin is a javelin and a spear is a spear. Don’t be ashamed, many people do confuse the two.

surely you have stabbing spears and throwing spears.

Bogsnorkler said:

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

You have long grass and bushes in the desert region where a short arrow would be easily lost. And yes I do mean a spear, which is what Aborigines used. I have never seen the term javelin used in relation to Aboriginal use.

Nah, a javelin is a javelin and a spear is a spear. Don’t be ashamed, many people do confuse the two.

surely you have stabbing spears and throwing spears.

I was told that aboriginals preferred hunting boomerangs (Non returning) because to make a kill with a spear you have to hit point on, whereas with the rotating throwing stick you had something like a metre of weapon to hit the animal.

sarahs mum said:

So the Makassans and the aborigines got on. There was some part time employment. There was some procurement, exchange of goods cultural niceties.

Aborigines get pissed all the time and we’re racist so lets call the whole thing off.

Good point. A major thrust of the Aborigines Protective Organisations in the first half of the 20th century was to protect aborigines against exploitation by Malays and Japanese. Aborigines had been working as crews of their pearling and beche-de-mer vessels.

The Japanese and aborigines would occasionally murder one another.

the word aborigine is outdated and not acceptable terminology.

as is the acronym ATSI

Aboriginal people
Indigenous people
Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander

Arts said:

the word aborigine is outdated and not acceptable terminology.

as is the acronym ATSI

Aboriginal people
Indigenous people
Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander

First nations people.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

the word aborigine is outdated and not acceptable terminology.

as is the acronym ATSI

Aboriginal people
Indigenous people
Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

the word aborigine is outdated and not acceptable terminology.

as is the acronym ATSI

Aboriginal people
Indigenous people
Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

I’m still stuck with aborigine is the noun and aboriginal is the adjective.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

the word aborigine is outdated and not acceptable terminology.

as is the acronym ATSI

Aboriginal people
Indigenous people
Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

sarahs mum said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

I’m still stuck with aborigine is the noun and aboriginal is the adjective.

I’ll try harder.

Tamb said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

Arts said:

Tamb said:

Arts said:

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

Unless the culture being cancelled was the invading hordes.

Arts said:

Tamb said:

Arts said:

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

And when that method of address is decided I will gladly use it.

Tamb said:

Arts said:

Tamb said:

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

And when that method of address is decided I will gladly use it.

I know people who are happy to call themselves blackfellas.

Tamb said:

Arts said:

Tamb said:

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

And when that method of address is decided I will gladly use it.

which currently is Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander people, Aboriginal people (in the proper context) or First Nations people.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Arts said:

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

And when that method of address is decided I will gladly use it.

I know people who are happy to call themselves blackfellas.

‘Aborigine’ (capitalised) or ‘aborigine’ (lower case) was used in Australia’s recent history and is sometimes used by older Aboriginal persons who grew up in that era. This is now a lesser used term and not recommended. This may be due to the historical negative references associated with this term.

https://www.actcoss.org.au/sites/default/files/public/publications/gulanga-good-practice-guide-preferences-terminology-referring-to-aboriginal-torres-strait-islander-peoples.pdf

it;‘s a bit like the use of the word ‘nigger’. with its use, they can we definitely should not

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

And when that method of address is decided I will gladly use it.

I know people who are happy to call themselves blackfellas.

‘Aborigine’ (capitalised) or ‘aborigine’ (lower case) was used in Australia’s recent history and is sometimes used by older Aboriginal persons who grew up in that era. This is now a lesser used term and not recommended. This may be due to the historical negative references associated with this term.

https://www.actcoss.org.au/sites/default/files/public/publications/gulanga-good-practice-guide-preferences-terminology-referring-to-aboriginal-torres-strait-islander-peoples.pdf

it;‘s a bit like the use of the word ‘nigger’. with its use, they can we definitely should not

Yes.

anyway, the information is out there if you are interested in reading it.

and I have generally kept quiet about the use of language in these types of threads, but imparting information is important … saying something is ok because ‘that’s the way we’ve always done it’ is narrow-minded and arrogant… because I always maintain that when we know better we can do better… that’s a hill I’ll live and die on. also, you’re welcome

Arts said:

anyway, the information is out there if you are interested in reading it.

and I have generally kept quiet about the use of language in these types of threads, but imparting information is important … saying something is ok because ‘that’s the way we’ve always done it’ is narrow-minded and arrogant… because I always maintain that when we know better we can do better… that’s a hill I’ll live and die on. also, you’re welcome

agree.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

the word aborigine is outdated and not acceptable terminology.

as is the acronym ATSI

Aboriginal people
Indigenous people
Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

Is it?

Why is that?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

Is it?

Why is that?

it’s in the link

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

the word aborigine is outdated and not acceptable terminology.

as is the acronym ATSI

Aboriginal people
Indigenous people
Australian and/or Torres Straight Islander

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

“Indigenous people” is non specific in terms of which continent. All original peoples of all continents are indigenous to their continent. Not to be confused with indigent. And I think there is something about capitalizing the a on Aboriginal which makes it Australian. I can’t remember.

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

Is it?

Why is that?

it’s in the link

Well the link says:

“Be aware that some, if not many, Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples are
dissatisfied with the term ‘Indigenous’. “

I’m not sure that makes it actually frowned upon, but really the question was because i often here the term used, and before today I hadn’t heard anyone complain about it.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is it?

Why is that?

it’s in the link

Well the link says:

“Be aware that some, if not many, Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples are
dissatisfied with the term ‘Indigenous’. “

I’m not sure that makes it actually frowned upon, but really the question was because i often here the term used, and before today I hadn’t heard anyone complain about it.

well, I wasn’t really complaining in the first place, just giving information that is more current

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

it’s in the link

Well the link says:

“Be aware that some, if not many, Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples are
dissatisfied with the term ‘Indigenous’. “

I’m not sure that makes it actually frowned upon, but really the question was because i often here the term used, and before today I hadn’t heard anyone complain about it.

well, I wasn’t really complaining in the first place, just giving information that is more current

I wasn’t really complaining about you complaining :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Well the link says:

“Be aware that some, if not many, Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples are
dissatisfied with the term ‘Indigenous’. “

I’m not sure that makes it actually frowned upon, but really the question was because i often here the term used, and before today I hadn’t heard anyone complain about it.

well, I wasn’t really complaining in the first place, just giving information that is more current

I wasn’t really complaining about you complaining :)

WILL YOU TWO START COMPLAINING!!!

buffy said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

First nations people.

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

“Indigenous people” is non specific in terms of which continent. All original peoples of all continents are indigenous to their continent. Not to be confused with indigent. And I think there is something about capitalizing the a on Aboriginal which makes it Australian. I can’t remember.

In one of by blog posts I mentioned Aboriginals in some context (now forgotten) and I got an email from an Aboriginal organisation telling me Aborigine, etc. should always have a capital A.

Arts said:

Tamb said:

Arts said:

actually I just reread, indigenous people is also frowned upon

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

Cancel culture is whatever makes Andrew Bolt feel uncomfortable.

dv said:

Arts said:

Tamb said:

I’ll keep calling them Aboriginal until the cancel culturists make up their minds.

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

Cancel culture is whatever makes Andrew Bolt feel uncomfortable.

I’m relaxed and comfortable about it because I believe the people, the good people of the world, respect their culture too much to have it cancelled. Whether it be the Inuit people of North America, or the people of Ukraine or indigenous Australians or the Anglo Saxon Jutes or the Maori, their cultural attachment is what binds them. Those with socialist evil intent who want to strip away our very soul and replace it with a Borg state will fail. So let the sane and the sensible of the world so bear ourselves that in years to come people will say this was our finest hour. An hour where cancel culture was put to the sword and the world can look forward to a sunlit upland of individual freedom of peace and prosperity.

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Arts said:

allowing people to finally have a voice on how they are addressed is not cancel culture..

Cancel culture is whatever makes Andrew Bolt feel uncomfortable.

I’m relaxed and comfortable about it because I believe the people, the good people of the world, respect their culture too much to have it cancelled. Whether it be the Inuit people of North America, or the people of Ukraine or indigenous Australians or the Anglo Saxon Jutes or the Maori, their cultural attachment is what binds them. Those with socialist evil intent who want to strip away our very soul and replace it with a Borg state will fail. So let the sane and the sensible of the world so bear ourselves that in years to come people will say this was our finest hour. An hour where cancel culture was put to the sword and the world can look forward to a sunlit upland of individual freedom of peace and prosperity.

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Cancel culture is whatever makes Andrew Bolt feel uncomfortable.

I’m relaxed and comfortable about it because I believe the people, the good people of the world, respect their culture too much to have it cancelled. Whether it be the Inuit people of North America, or the people of Ukraine or indigenous Australians or the Anglo Saxon Jutes or the Maori, their cultural attachment is what binds them. Those with socialist evil intent who want to strip away our very soul and replace it with a Borg state will fail. So let the sane and the sensible of the world so bear ourselves that in years to come people will say this was our finest hour. An hour where cancel culture was put to the sword and the world can look forward to a sunlit upland of individual freedom of peace and prosperity.

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

A good and damning point.

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Cancel culture is whatever makes Andrew Bolt feel uncomfortable.

I’m relaxed and comfortable about it because I believe the people, the good people of the world, respect their culture too much to have it cancelled. Whether it be the Inuit people of North America, or the people of Ukraine or indigenous Australians or the Anglo Saxon Jutes or the Maori, their cultural attachment is what binds them. Those with socialist evil intent who want to strip away our very soul and replace it with a Borg state will fail. So let the sane and the sensible of the world so bear ourselves that in years to come people will say this was our finest hour. An hour where cancel culture was put to the sword and the world can look forward to a sunlit upland of individual freedom of peace and prosperity.

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

a historic fascist state tried it as well.

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’m relaxed and comfortable about it because I believe the people, the good people of the world, respect their culture too much to have it cancelled. Whether it be the Inuit people of North America, or the people of Ukraine or indigenous Australians or the Anglo Saxon Jutes or the Maori, their cultural attachment is what binds them. Those with socialist evil intent who want to strip away our very soul and replace it with a Borg state will fail. So let the sane and the sensible of the world so bear ourselves that in years to come people will say this was our finest hour. An hour where cancel culture was put to the sword and the world can look forward to a sunlit upland of individual freedom of peace and prosperity.

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

a historic fascist state tried it as well.

Doncha know they were National Socialists?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

a historic fascist state tried it as well.

Doncha know they were National Socialists?

that’s probably who PWM was meaning.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

a historic fascist state tried it as well.

Doncha know they were National Socialists?

They were socialists in the way that the Congo is a democratic republic.

Bubblecar said:

Arts said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’m relaxed and comfortable about it because I believe the people, the good people of the world, respect their culture too much to have it cancelled. Whether it be the Inuit people of North America, or the people of Ukraine or indigenous Australians or the Anglo Saxon Jutes or the Maori, their cultural attachment is what binds them. Those with socialist evil intent who want to strip away our very soul and replace it with a Borg state will fail. So let the sane and the sensible of the world so bear ourselves that in years to come people will say this was our finest hour. An hour where cancel culture was put to the sword and the world can look forward to a sunlit upland of individual freedom of peace and prosperity.

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

A good and damning point.

I thought the stolen generation were those of, shall we say, mixed blood. They were, perhaps misguidedly, attempting to preserve part of their culture. Unfortunately at detriment to the other side of their culture…

furious said:

Bubblecar said:

Arts said:

the stolen generation program was the ultimate attempt at cancel culture…

A good and damning point.

I thought the stolen generation were those of, shall we say, mixed blood. They were, perhaps misguidedly, attempting to preserve part of their culture. Unfortunately at detriment to the other side of their culture…

Numerous 19th and early 20th-century contemporaneous documents indicate that the policy of removing mixed-race Aboriginal children from their mothers related to an assumption that the Aboriginal peoples were dying off. Given their catastrophic population decline after white contact, whites assumed that the full-blood tribal Aboriginal population would be unable to sustain itself, and was doomed to extinction. The idea expressed by A. O. Neville, the Chief Protector of Aborigines for Western Australia, and others as late as 1930 was that mixed-race children could be trained to work in white society, and over generations would marry white and be assimilated into the society.

Some European Australians considered any proliferation of mixed-descent children (labelled “half-castes”, “crossbreeds”, “quadroons”, and “octoroons”,: 231, 308  terms now considered derogatory to Indigenous Australians) to be a threat to the stability of the prevailing culture, or to a perceived racial or cultural “heritage”.: 160  The Northern Territory Chief Protector of Aborigines, Dr. Cecil Cook, argued that “everything necessary to convert the half-caste into a white citizen”.

wiki.

Bogsnorkler said:

furious said:

Bubblecar said:

A good and damning point.

I thought the stolen generation were those of, shall we say, mixed blood. They were, perhaps misguidedly, attempting to preserve part of their culture. Unfortunately at detriment to the other side of their culture…

Numerous 19th and early 20th-century contemporaneous documents indicate that the policy of removing mixed-race Aboriginal children from their mothers related to an assumption that the Aboriginal peoples were dying off. Given their catastrophic population decline after white contact, whites assumed that the full-blood tribal Aboriginal population would be unable to sustain itself, and was doomed to extinction. The idea expressed by A. O. Neville, the Chief Protector of Aborigines for Western Australia, and others as late as 1930 was that mixed-race children could be trained to work in white society, and over generations would marry white and be assimilated into the society.

Some European Australians considered any proliferation of mixed-descent children (labelled “half-castes”, “crossbreeds”, “quadroons”, and “octoroons”,: 231, 308  terms now considered derogatory to Indigenous Australians) to be a threat to the stability of the prevailing culture, or to a perceived racial or cultural “heritage”.: 160  The Northern Territory Chief Protector of Aborigines, Dr. Cecil Cook, argued that “everything necessary to convert the half-caste into a white citizen”.

wiki.

the ‘mixed race’ children came out of people believing that they could ‘breed out’ the Aboriginal in the Indigenous population. Those of no mixed heritage were still removed from families due to the belief that Aboriginal parents weren’t fit to raise their children (they just weren’t placed in ‘foster’ homes.)

Not strictly relevant but I was surprised to learn that one of the exempted reasons for allowed travel by Indonesian sailors to the Ashmore and Cartier reef territory is to attend to graves. Sailors from what is now Indonesia have visited the area since the early 1700s, a century before it was “discovered” by Nash and Ashmore.

Having learned that I checked the Memorandum details:

A 1974 Memorandum of Understanding between Australia and Indonesia sets out arrangements by which traditional fishers can access resources in Australia’s territorial sea the region. This allows traditional Indonesian fishers to access parts of Ashmore for shelter, freshwater and to visit grave sites.

Traditional fishers replenished water from the freshwater well on West Island and collected fish, birds, bird eggs, holothurians, clam flesh, shells, firewood, turtles and turtle eggs. Ashmore was also used as a staging point for voyaging to other reefs further south. Ashmore and Cartier were used by traditional fishers to bury their dead and there are now at least seven graves on West Island at Ashmore and one on Cartier Island.

One example of technology that is presumed to have been passed from Austronesian sailors to Aboriginal people in the Top End is sturdy canoes. Previous canoes made by native Australians tended to be bark held together with branches. In the early 17th century (per archeologist), the switch to dug out canoes, which required less maintenance and also gave the spearmen greater stability when hunting dugongs and turtles.

dv said:

One example of technology that is presumed to have been passed from Austronesian sailors to Aboriginal people in the Top End is sturdy canoes. Previous canoes made by native Australians tended to be bark held together with branches. In the early 17th century (per archeologist), the switch to dug out canoes, which required less maintenance and also gave the spearmen greater stability when hunting dugongs and turtles.

I would think they would need iron axes to make dug out canoes. It would be a very difficult job with stone axes, making other methods more preferable.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

One example of technology that is presumed to have been passed from Austronesian sailors to Aboriginal people in the Top End is sturdy canoes. Previous canoes made by native Australians tended to be bark held together with branches. In the early 17th century (per archeologist), the switch to dug out canoes, which required less maintenance and also gave the spearmen greater stability when hunting dugongs and turtles.

I would think they would need iron axes to make dug out canoes. It would be a very difficult job with stone axes, making other methods more preferable.

Makes sense.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

One example of technology that is presumed to have been passed from Austronesian sailors to Aboriginal people in the Top End is sturdy canoes. Previous canoes made by native Australians tended to be bark held together with branches. In the early 17th century (per archeologist), the switch to dug out canoes, which required less maintenance and also gave the spearmen greater stability when hunting dugongs and turtles.

I would think they would need iron axes to make dug out canoes. It would be a very difficult job with stone axes, making other methods more preferable.

Makes sense.

I’ve read (but can’t remember where — it was a while ago) that they used fire to remove most of the unneeded wood.

btm said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

I would think they would need iron axes to make dug out canoes. It would be a very difficult job with stone axes, making other methods more preferable.

Makes sense.

I’ve read (but can’t remember where — it was a while ago) that they used fire to remove most of the unneeded wood.

Aboriginal canoes were constructed much more easily than previous types of vessels, such as bark canoes. This ease of construction played a significant role in the dugout canoes’ widespread use. While earlier vessels required a great deal of labor and time-consuming sewing to make, dugout canoes were constructed easily and in a shorter period of time. First, one would have to cut down a tree and shape the exterior into an even form. The sides of the canoe were shaped in one of two ways. They were either carved straight up and down or in a “u” shape, curving in towards the center of the boat. Next, one would have to dig out the inner wood of the log to make space for the oarsmen to sit and paddle. In some early dugout canoes, Aboriginal people would not make the bottoms of the canoes smooth, but would instead carve “ribbing” into the vessel. Ribbing (literally sections of wood that looked like ribs) was used to stabilize bark canoes, and though not necessary to dugout canoes, was a carryover in the transition from one canoe type to the other. Both the chopping down of the tree and the digging out of the log were easily done with an iron-axe.

Wiki

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

One example of technology that is presumed to have been passed from Austronesian sailors to Aboriginal people in the Top End is sturdy canoes. Previous canoes made by native Australians tended to be bark held together with branches. In the early 17th century (per archeologist), the switch to dug out canoes, which required less maintenance and also gave the spearmen greater stability when hunting dugongs and turtles.

I would think they would need iron axes to make dug out canoes. It would be a very difficult job with stone axes, making other methods more preferable.

Makes sense.

A friend of mine who is from the Ngiyampaa mob, told me that steel axes arrived out here before the white man arrived. He suggested that they had been traded downstream because a good axe was worth at leat two wives.

I watched a doco on the burning out of a canoe that could be done, but was extremely slow and laborious as many fires had to be built and closely supervised. After several days they they gave it away and ended up chopping out the inside portion of the log.

PermeateFree said:

I watched a doco on the burning out of a canoe that could be done, but was extremely slow and laborious as many fires had to be built and closely supervised. After several days they they gave it away and ended up chopping out the inside portion of the log.

The burning hardens the wood ?

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

I watched a doco on the burning out of a canoe that could be done, but was extremely slow and laborious as many fires had to be built and closely supervised. After several days they they gave it away and ended up chopping out the inside portion of the log.

The burning hardens the wood ?

It certainly will, but it does not burn well when you burn wood from the top down.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

I watched a doco on the burning out of a canoe that could be done, but was extremely slow and laborious as many fires had to be built and closely supervised. After several days they they gave it away and ended up chopping out the inside portion of the log.

The burning hardens the wood ?

It certainly will, but it does not burn well when you burn wood from the top down.

I imagine not

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

I watched a doco on the burning out of a canoe that could be done, but was extremely slow and laborious as many fires had to be built and closely supervised. After several days they they gave it away and ended up chopping out the inside portion of the log.

The burning hardens the wood ?

It certainly will, but it does not burn well when you burn wood from the top down.

I believe we are talking about smouldering wood. They’d certainly burn it slowly to avoid drying things out too quickly. A cracked dugout will let the rain in.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

The burning hardens the wood ?

It certainly will, but it does not burn well when you burn wood from the top down.

I believe we are talking about smouldering wood. They’d certainly burn it slowly to avoid drying things out too quickly. A cracked dugout will let the rain in.

I doubt that they did burn or smolder the internal portion of a log to make a canoe. If they ever did it would not be a common method of construction, especially when bark canoes were so easy to make and most waterways they used them on were relatively calm.

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

It certainly will, but it does not burn well when you burn wood from the top down.

I believe we are talking about smouldering wood. They’d certainly burn it slowly to avoid drying things out too quickly. A cracked dugout will let the rain in.

I doubt that they did burn or smolder the internal portion of a log to make a canoe. If they ever did it would not be a common method of construction, especially when bark canoes were so easy to make and most waterways they used them on were relatively calm.

Yes. In most of Australia, they had no need. I’d venture a guess that dugout canoes only existed in the far north.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

I believe we are talking about smouldering wood. They’d certainly burn it slowly to avoid drying things out too quickly. A cracked dugout will let the rain in.

I doubt that they did burn or smolder the internal portion of a log to make a canoe. If they ever did it would not be a common method of construction, especially when bark canoes were so easy to make and most waterways they used them on were relatively calm.

Yes. In most of Australia, they had no need. I’d venture a guess that dugout canoes only existed in the far north.

They’d not be as portable either

https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/07/12/blachung-naidoc-cook-off-darwin/

Somewhat off-topic but some people attribute blachun (a dish that is popular with indigenous Darwinians) to Macassan traders with their belacan.

dv said:

https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/07/12/blachung-naidoc-cook-off-darwin/

Somewhat off-topic but some people attribute blachun (a dish that is popular with indigenous Darwinians) to Macassan traders with their belacan.

I used to cook with quite a bit of blachun back in the day. Always kept in an air-tight container.

sibeen said:

dv said:

https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/07/12/blachung-naidoc-cook-off-darwin/

Somewhat off-topic but some people attribute blachun (a dish that is popular with indigenous Darwinians) to Macassan traders with their belacan.

I used to cook with quite a bit of blachun back in the day. Always kept in an air-tight container.

Considerate of you

sibeen said:

dv said:

https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/07/12/blachung-naidoc-cook-off-darwin/

Somewhat off-topic but some people attribute blachun (a dish that is popular with indigenous Darwinians) to Macassan traders with their belacan.

I used to cook with quite a bit of blachun back in the day. Always kept in an air-tight container.

Sounds like a PWM steak…