Date: 31/05/2022 15:14:50
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1890485
Subject: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Am reading a new sci-fi book.

Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

The animals explode as a nuclear explosion when the reactor is badly damaged.

This seems impossible. What do you think?

Could a nuclear reactor be designed so badly that it can explode as an atomic bomb if damaged?
Would it be possible for an animal to evolve in such away that when it dies it delivers a lethal dose of radiation to whatever predator killed it?

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Date: 31/05/2022 15:36:05
From: dv
ID: 1890491
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Animals on earth are ultimately powered by a nuclear reactor

#hottake

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Date: 31/05/2022 15:46:07
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1890493
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

dv said:


Animals on earth are ultimately powered by a nuclear reactor

#hottake

And the plants even more directly.

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Date: 31/05/2022 15:47:13
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1890495
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:


Am reading a new sci-fi book.

Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

The animals explode as a nuclear explosion when the reactor is badly damaged.

This seems impossible. What do you think?

Could a nuclear reactor be designed so badly that it can explode as an atomic bomb if damaged?
Would it be possible for an animal to evolve in such away that when it dies it delivers a lethal dose of radiation to whatever predator killed it?

Great way to control cats and foxes.

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Date: 31/05/2022 15:48:47
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1890496
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

The Rev Dodgson said:


dv said:

Animals on earth are ultimately powered by a nuclear reactor

#hottake

And the plants even more directly.

And my shack.

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Date: 31/05/2022 15:49:49
From: Cymek
ID: 1890498
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:


Am reading a new sci-fi book.

Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

The animals explode as a nuclear explosion when the reactor is badly damaged.

This seems impossible. What do you think?

Could a nuclear reactor be designed so badly that it can explode as an atomic bomb if damaged?
Would it be possible for an animal to evolve in such away that when it dies it delivers a lethal dose of radiation to whatever predator killed it?

Some sort of natural radioisotope thermoelectric generator perhaps ?
Skin/shell contains high concentration of lead and when it dies it breaks down no longer containing the radiation

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Date: 31/05/2022 15:53:19
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1890499
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

I can’t answer if it would be possible for sure a creature to exist, but I have wondered how life would evolve on plants close to the centre of our galaxy. There’s far more stars and far more closely packed, so quite possibly no very dark nights, and more radiation to deal with.

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Date: 31/05/2022 16:01:02
From: dv
ID: 1890501
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Spiny Norman said:


I can’t answer if it would be possible for sure a creature to exist, but I have wondered how life would evolve on plants close to the centre of our galaxy. There’s far more stars and far more closely packed, so quite possibly no very dark nights, and more radiation to deal with.

Life could still emerge deep in the ocean near a hot smoker or some such I suppose

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Date: 31/05/2022 16:03:40
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1890503
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

dv said:


Spiny Norman said:

I can’t answer if it would be possible for sure a creature to exist, but I have wondered how life would evolve on plants close to the centre of our galaxy. There’s far more stars and far more closely packed, so quite possibly no very dark nights, and more radiation to deal with.

Life could still emerge deep in the ocean near a hot smoker or some such I suppose

I’ve also wondered about the distribution of water-bearing comets with regard to the distance from the centre of the galaxy.

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Date: 31/05/2022 16:03:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1890504
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

dv said:


Spiny Norman said:

I can’t answer if it would be possible for sure a creature to exist, but I have wondered how life would evolve on plants close to the centre of our galaxy. There’s far more stars and far more closely packed, so quite possibly no very dark nights, and more radiation to deal with.

Life could still emerge deep in the ocean near a hot smoker or some such I suppose

We are even now still learning about where life can exist without us previously beiing aware of that.

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Date: 31/05/2022 16:06:15
From: roughbarked
ID: 1890506
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Spiny Norman said:


dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

I can’t answer if it would be possible for sure a creature to exist, but I have wondered how life would evolve on plants close to the centre of our galaxy. There’s far more stars and far more closely packed, so quite possibly no very dark nights, and more radiation to deal with.

Life could still emerge deep in the ocean near a hot smoker or some such I suppose

I’ve also wondered about the distribution of water-bearing comets with regard to the distance from the centre of the galaxy.

That’s a bit deeper but definitely worthy of mention.

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Date: 31/05/2022 16:09:47
From: Dark Orange
ID: 1890508
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:


Am reading a new sci-fi book.

It sounds like there is more fi than Sci.

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Date: 31/05/2022 16:11:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1890510
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Dark Orange said:


mollwollfumble said:

Am reading a new sci-fi book.

It sounds like there is more fi than Sci.

It is like listening to the fantasy on your Hi-Fi while awy on some lysergic journey.

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Date: 31/05/2022 19:37:23
From: KJW
ID: 1890581
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:

Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

Animals aren’t even powered by coal-fired power stations. How cells “burn” fuel is really quite fascinating. You should look up Citric Acid Cycle to see how acetic acid (in the form of acetyl-CoA) is converted to carbon dioxide.

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Date: 31/05/2022 22:21:14
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1890687
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

KJW said:


mollwollfumble said:
Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

Animals aren’t even powered by coal-fired power stations. How cells “burn” fuel is really quite fascinating. You should look up Citric Acid Cycle to see how acetic acid (in the form of acetyl-CoA) is converted to carbon dioxide.

Ta, yes. I’ve has a chart of the citric acid cycle since I was a teenager. It’[s fascinating.

I’ve only come up with a few follow-on thoughts since the original post.

1. An animal powered by a nuclear reactor, or even and RTG, could cook its own food. For instance if the radioactive material was in fine tentacle-like threads and it lived underwater then the water outside the animal would act as a moderator and reflector. And any prey caught by the tentacles could be pre-cooked before it is eaten.

2. In terms of deadliness, neutrons are deadlier than gamma rays, which are deadlier than beta rays which are deadlier than alpha rays. Natural radiation from uranium and thorium ores is predominantly alpha rays. Which makes them reasonably easy to insert into a semi-organic matrix. Uranium and thorium could be obtained by eating sand or clay containing particles of their ores. Or they could be strained element by element out of a general radioactive environment using a concentration method akin to kidneys in animals. I don’t happen to know if fast or slow neutrons are deadlier, fast neutrons penetrate further but slow neutrons have a much larger capture cross section.

3. The animal would want to eliminate or detoxify the more dangerous fission products, in particular caesium-137, iodine-131, strontium-90. Eg Iodine is less toxic if the animal doesn’t have a thyroid. Lime, calcium, ingestion helps to detoxify strontium. Or the animal could simply use silicon for bones instead of calcium. A modified kidney could be used to expel unwanted radioactives.

4. If the radioactive arrangements are in plates, such as in a mitochondria or golgi-body, then a collapse in inter-plate distance due to dehydration and/or gravity after death could give the necessary fast-neutron pulse to kill predators by radiation when the animal dies.

5. A full-blown nuclear reactor doesn’t have to be big, it can be basket-ball size (though I would have to check which isotope was used).

6. Natural chemicals in organic organisms, particularly carbon and water, provide good shielding against neutron damage.

7. The radioactives could be on tentacles, (to reduce radiation damage ro the main body), or on parallel plates (which by muscular separation and contraction is controllable), or centred in vesicles (particularly useful if grains of radioactive ores are part of the diet).

In summary:

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Date: 2/06/2022 19:20:44
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1891416
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:


KJW said:

mollwollfumble said:
Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

Animals aren’t even powered by coal-fired power stations. How cells “burn” fuel is really quite fascinating. You should look up Citric Acid Cycle to see how acetic acid (in the form of acetyl-CoA) is converted to carbon dioxide.

Ta, yes. I’ve has a chart of the citric acid cycle since I was a teenager. It’

I know that I should calculate exactly how deadly it would be.

I did that once for a nuclear powered aeroplane, and found that it added to the passengers radiation load too much unless shielded by materials that were too heavy. Thinking back to that now, I wonder how I missed the possibility of using hydrogen for shielding.

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Date: 4/06/2022 19:35:52
From: Trevtaowillgetyounowhere
ID: 1892247
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

If the universe is infinate wouldn’t it have to exist..,. Or isn’t it infinate anymore…..like Pluto and stuff.

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Date: 9/06/2022 11:19:30
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1894009
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Trevtaowillgetyounowhere said:


If the universe is infinate wouldn’t it have to exist..,. Or isn’t it infinate anymore…..like Pluto and stuff.

There are different orders of infinity. It wouldn’t have to exist because aleph null / aleph one = zero.

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Date: 9/06/2022 11:57:46
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1894026
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:


Trevtaowillgetyounowhere said:

If the universe is infinate wouldn’t it have to exist..,. Or isn’t it infinate anymore…..like Pluto and stuff.

There are different orders of infinity. It wouldn’t have to exist because aleph null / aleph one = zero.

I don’t accept that argument.

But I would need to go into infinite detail to explain why.

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Date: 9/06/2022 12:05:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1894027
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

I wonder who is more imaginative, the universe/nature or humans.

For all our failings we are pretty good at being creative

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Date: 9/06/2022 12:21:29
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1894030
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

what if it’s nearly infinite

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Date: 9/06/2022 12:22:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1894031
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:


Am reading a new sci-fi book.

Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

The animals explode as a nuclear explosion when the reactor is badly damaged.

This seems impossible. What do you think?

Could a nuclear reactor be designed so badly that it can explode as an atomic bomb if damaged?
Would it be possible for an animal to evolve in such away that when it dies it delivers a lethal dose of radiation to whatever predator killed it?

Imagines largest animal creating a nuclear explosion while farting.

Let neo-Darwinism realism sort it out.

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Date: 9/06/2022 12:23:52
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1894033
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

SCIENCE said:


what if it’s nearly infinite

Is that the same as almost infinite?

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Date: 9/06/2022 13:07:07
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1894052
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Tau.Neutrino said:


mollwollfumble said:

Am reading a new sci-fi book.

Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

The animals explode as a nuclear explosion when the reactor is badly damaged.

This seems impossible. What do you think?

Could a nuclear reactor be designed so badly that it can explode as an atomic bomb if damaged?
Would it be possible for an animal to evolve in such away that when it dies it delivers a lethal dose of radiation to whatever predator killed it?

Imagines largest animal creating a nuclear explosion while farting.
Let neo-Darwinism realism sort it out.

> what if it’s nearly infinite

I don’t see why anyone should have trouble with the term “nearly infinite”. You wouldn’t have trouble with the term “nearly zero”, would you?
“Nearly infinite” is defined as 1/x when x is “nearly zero”.

> Imagines largest animal creating a nuclear explosion while farting.

:-)
That is exactly what happens in the Sci-Fi book. “The Kaiju preservation society”
By “largest animal”, it’s interpreted as “a mobile flying organism the size of a small mountain”.
By “neo-Darwinism realism”, it’s interpreted as “threatened with extinction”. :-)

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Date: 9/06/2022 13:37:31
From: btm
ID: 1894061
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:


Am reading a new sci-fi book.

Humans land on a planet where the largest animals (non-standard biochemistry) are powered by nuclear reactors.
The planet has a high concentration of uranium and thorium ores in its crust.

This seems possible. What do you think?

What would such an animal look like, how would it evolve from lower life forms, what changes would be needed in its biochemistry?

The animals explode as a nuclear explosion when the reactor is badly damaged.

This seems impossible. What do you think?

Could a nuclear reactor be designed so badly that it can explode as an atomic bomb if damaged?
Would it be possible for an animal to evolve in such away that when it dies it delivers a lethal dose of radiation to whatever predator killed it?

Not possible. Natural nuclear reactors have existed on Earth (see the Oklo natural reactor), but only with low-purity fuel. A man-made nuclear reactor uses fuel rods that have (for a uranium reactor) about 6% 235U; this concentration is insufficient to cause an explosion. Nuclear bombs require high-purity fuel (uranium bombs, eg, require at least 99% 235U), so a reactor won’t explode as a nuclear bomb.

If an animal were to be directly powered by nuclear reactions (rather than photosynthesis from solar radiation), it wouldn’t need to eat; it would also not provide food for any predator.

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Date: 9/06/2022 17:27:51
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1894134
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

mollwollfumble said:

I don’t see why anyone should have trouble with the term “nearly infinite”. You wouldn’t have trouble with the term “nearly zero”, would you?
“Nearly infinite” is defined as 1/x when x is “nearly zero”.

The trouble is, 1/“nearly zero” is just as different from “nearly zero” as infinity is from 1/infinity.

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Date: 9/06/2022 17:53:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1894158
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

I don’t see why anyone should have trouble with the term “nearly infinite”. You wouldn’t have trouble with the term “nearly zero”, would you?
“Nearly infinite” is defined as 1/x when x is “nearly zero”.

The trouble is, 1/“nearly zero” is just as different from “nearly zero” as infinity is from 1/infinity.

is 1/x/∞ different or the same?

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Date: 9/06/2022 17:55:57
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1894162
Subject: re: Animal powered by nuclear reactor?

Tau.Neutrino said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

I don’t see why anyone should have trouble with the term “nearly infinite”. You wouldn’t have trouble with the term “nearly zero”, would you?
“Nearly infinite” is defined as 1/x when x is “nearly zero”.

The trouble is, 1/“nearly zero” is just as different from “nearly zero” as infinity is from 1/infinity.

is 1/x/∞ different or the same?

1/x/∞ = ∞/x = ∞ for any positive finite x

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