Date: 2/07/2022 02:08:19
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1903338
Subject: Vacuum welding

Vacuum welding of parts that should move is a big problem for spacecraft. On Earth, air provides lubrication for such simple processes as screwing a nut on a bolt. Remove the air and the parts can weld themselves in place.

On the Moon, the process of vacuum welding made the lunar regolith so tough that more than one Apollo astronaut suffered from injury in trying to remove it. Lunar regolith is just dust that has been compressed over time. Essentially, it’s tougher than any Earth rock, including concrete. The lunar rock breccia that makes up all the Lunar highlands is all formed by vacuum welding under relatively low pressure and ambient temperature.

Whenever I try to think of vacuum welding as a lunar technology, and decide how technology can be useful under lunar or even Earth conditions, my brain goes into meltdown after about an hour or so without coming to any definite conclusions.

Here are some thoughts.

Then there is the problem of selecting materials for vacuum welding into briquettes. Lunar grains are sharp edged and thus very abrasive. That’s good, except that it means that when grains come together the contact area is small, as in sintering on Earth. Leading to unwanted voids from a strength point of view, wanted voids from a thermal blanket insulation point of view. Compressed lunar regolith would be a superb thermal insulator, easily outperforming fibreglass, foam etc. It could even be used for making tiles for withstanding the heat of re-entry of, for example, a space shuttle. Or as outer protection for a spacecraft to investigate the Sun from close-up.

Anyway, normally the voids are unwelcome. Certainly from a strength point of view. One possibility is of sieving the material into grades of lunar material carefully chosen so that finer grades fill the voids left by larger grades, and still finer grades fill the voilds left by the finer grades, etc. All the way fown to micron size grains.

Another approach would be tom embed the sharp-pointed particles in a ductile matrix made from, for example, aluminium foil. As each grain penetrates the alfoil it produces an extended boundary that has the ability (in vacuum) to bond strongly chemically and not just physically. Giving a composite material potentially as strong as the strongest steels. It would have the hardness of ceramics with the crack-resistance of steel.

But all this requires testing on Earth. Moving away from the plastic bag type vacuum to a bell-jar-like chamber filled with vacuum. It is obvious that we would not use real lunar dust as the testing material, buy a stimulant. Annoyingly, official lunar-dust-simulant will not suffice. And the reason for that is that as soon as dust is exposed to air it reacts with oxygen in Earth’s atmosphere. And because oxygen has only two chemical bonds it seals the surface against further chemical reaction. Such as anodising aluminium and the oxide layer on chromium. But for best bonding we want those chemical bonds available.

And that means that for testing on Earth the dust, and any other materials such as aluminium flakes, need to be manufactured under vacuum. The manufacturing process for out unofficial lunar simulant consists of fracture hammering using either vertical hammering (like pile driving or a gold battery) or rotary hammering (like a car crusher or high speed rotary crusher. I don’t recommend a ball mill or rod mill, because of potential premature vacuum welding. But manufacturing under vacuum risks the problem of vacuum welding of the product to the machine and machine parts to each other. So care is needed.

The manufacturing of dust under vacuum conditions could be as simple as crushing basalt, but could be done using a variety of other source materials, including naturally occurring minerals and metals. (Incidentally making aluminium powder for Earth-based use in explosives). The resulting dust surfaces would be both sharp and chemically active, ready for testing.

The first test would be angle of repose. One way of doing this would be to put a pile of dust in a 90 degree cradle that rocks back and forth, to see if the simple action of low energy movement would cause the dust to coalesce into something with a high angle of repose. A bigger rocking cradle test would see if the slightly greater gravitational potential energy results in a larger angle of repose.

Alternatively, the angle of repose can be measured in a rotating drum, perhaps 10% full, to see if particles coalesce to increase their angle of repose just under the action of sliding due to gravity.

The second test would try out various options for briquette construction. Pressure vs impact loading. Trying out different mould materials and release compounds. And testing the strength of the resulting briquettes. All in vacuum again. Putting and using strength testing apparatus inside a vacuum chamber would again be a challenge.

I wonder how high a vacuum would be needed? There have been records of corrosion of satellites in orbit due to the free oxygen in the far outer fringes of the Earth’s atmosphere. Earth’s atmosphere at 86 km up has a pressure of 0.37 Pa. The lunar atmosphere is about 3*10^-15 bar, about 3*10^-10 Pa. The vacuum in a cyclotron is near 10^-5 Pa. A high vacuum two stage pump tends to have a vacuum near 60 Pa. Hmm. A diffusion pump backed by a rotary pump will get to 1 to 10 Pa. Would need to experiment with several different vacuums to see how rapidly the oxygen present reacts with the dust, OR, simply produce more dust than all the oxygen in the vacuum can react with.

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Date: 2/07/2022 08:07:36
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1903358
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

Any references for the suggestion that the regolith is stronger than rock or concrete?

How come people with about 1/6 normal weight left footprint?

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Date: 2/07/2022 09:11:27
From: Michael V
ID: 1903367
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

“On the Moon, the process of vacuum welding made the lunar regolith so tough that more than one Apollo astronaut suffered from injury in trying to remove it. Lunar regolith is just dust that has been compressed over time.”

Please provide references – these assertions appear to be completely unsubstantiated, utter nonsense.

As far as I know, lunar regolith is mostly dust. In thin section, it appears to be so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regolith#Moon

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/lunar_sourcebook/pdf/Chapter07.pdf

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Date: 2/07/2022 09:34:26
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1903380
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

Michael V said:


“On the Moon, the process of vacuum welding made the lunar regolith so tough that more than one Apollo astronaut suffered from injury in trying to remove it. Lunar regolith is just dust that has been compressed over time.”

Please provide references – these assertions appear to be completely unsubstantiated, utter nonsense.

As far as I know, lunar regolith is mostly dust. In thin section, it appears to be so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regolith#Moon

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/lunar_sourcebook/pdf/Chapter07.pdf

Still, at least he prompted us to do “our own research” :)

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Date: 2/07/2022 14:09:57
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1903568
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

> Any references for the suggestion that the regolith is stronger than rock or concrete?

Only the biographies from Apollo 11 and Apollo 12.

It was a devil of a job drilling the core samples for the holes for Alsep on both missions. And when it was done, one astronaut pulled his shoulder trying to get the core sample out. It took both astronauts, and even then they only just managed it. And when one of the core sample was inside the LM on the way home they were loath to try to break it in half because it was so strong. Mission control insisted because the core was longer than the sample locker.

Back on Earth, one application would be dry welding. I call it insta-weld (TM mollwollfumble). Have a packet of vacuum packed silicon carbide or diamond dust that has been produced by crushing under vacuum conditions. Sprinkle it on whatever you want to glue together and hammer tight with a mallet or hydraulic press. The angular grains with chemically activated surfaces dig into the materials to be welded and bond them together forming a thin layer of composite material stronger and tougher than the materials being bonded. Suitable only for bonding materials with the same composition. Mild steel to mild steel, stainless to stainless, aluminium to aluminium, hard plastic to hard plastic. An alternative to superglue, and faster, and would even work underwater.

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Date: 2/07/2022 14:13:35
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 1903571
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

mollwollfumble said:


> Any references for the suggestion that the regolith is stronger than rock or concrete?

Only the biographies from Apollo 11 and Apollo 12.

It was a devil of a job drilling the core samples for the holes for Alsep on both missions. And when it was done, one astronaut pulled his shoulder trying to get the core sample out. It took both astronauts, and even then they only just managed it. And when one of the core sample was inside the LM on the way home they were loath to try to break it in half because it was so strong. Mission control insisted because the core was longer than the sample locker.

Back on Earth, one application would be dry welding. I call it insta-weld (TM mollwollfumble). Have a packet of vacuum packed silicon carbide or diamond dust that has been produced by crushing under vacuum conditions. Sprinkle it on whatever you want to glue together and hammer tight with a mallet or hydraulic press. The angular grains with chemically activated surfaces dig into the materials to be welded and bond them together forming a thin layer of composite material stronger and tougher than the materials being bonded. Suitable only for bonding materials with the same composition. Mild steel to mild steel, stainless to stainless, aluminium to aluminium, hard plastic to hard plastic. An alternative to superglue, and faster, and would even work underwater.

Similar to sintering.

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Date: 2/07/2022 15:23:09
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1903589
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

Spiny Norman said:


mollwollfumble said:

> Any references for the suggestion that the regolith is stronger than rock or concrete?

Only the biographies from Apollo 11 and Apollo 12.

It was a devil of a job drilling the core samples for the holes for Alsep on both missions. And when it was done, one astronaut pulled his shoulder trying to get the core sample out. It took both astronauts, and even then they only just managed it. And when one of the core sample was inside the LM on the way home they were loath to try to break it in half because it was so strong. Mission control insisted because the core was longer than the sample locker.

Back on Earth, one application would be dry welding. I call it insta-weld (TM mollwollfumble). Have a packet of vacuum packed silicon carbide or diamond dust that has been produced by crushing under vacuum conditions. Sprinkle it on whatever you want to glue together and hammer tight with a mallet or hydraulic press. The angular grains with chemically activated surfaces dig into the materials to be welded and bond them together forming a thin layer of composite material stronger and tougher than the materials being bonded. Suitable only for bonding materials with the same composition. Mild steel to mild steel, stainless to stainless, aluminium to aluminium, hard plastic to hard plastic. An alternative to superglue, and faster, and would even work underwater.

Similar to sintering.

Exactly similar to sintering :-)

Without the heat.

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Date: 2/07/2022 15:32:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1903592
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

Spiny Norman said:


mollwollfumble said:

> Any references for the suggestion that the regolith is stronger than rock or concrete?

Only the biographies from Apollo 11 and Apollo 12.

It was a devil of a job drilling the core samples for the holes for Alsep on both missions. And when it was done, one astronaut pulled his shoulder trying to get the core sample out. It took both astronauts, and even then they only just managed it. And when one of the core sample was inside the LM on the way home they were loath to try to break it in half because it was so strong. Mission control insisted because the core was longer than the sample locker.

Back on Earth, one application would be dry welding. I call it insta-weld (TM mollwollfumble). Have a packet of vacuum packed silicon carbide or diamond dust that has been produced by crushing under vacuum conditions. Sprinkle it on whatever you want to glue together and hammer tight with a mallet or hydraulic press. The angular grains with chemically activated surfaces dig into the materials to be welded and bond them together forming a thin layer of composite material stronger and tougher than the materials being bonded. Suitable only for bonding materials with the same composition. Mild steel to mild steel, stainless to stainless, aluminium to aluminium, hard plastic to hard plastic. An alternative to superglue, and faster, and would even work underwater.

Similar to sintering.

Except sintering uses heat and pressure.

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Date: 2/07/2022 22:12:11
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1903757
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

instead of drilling through the “rock” why don’t you just pour water onto it ?

i’d bet the compacted dust would just fall apart ?

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Date: 2/07/2022 22:19:56
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1903761
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

wookiemeister said:


instead of drilling through the “rock” why don’t you just pour water onto it ?

i’d bet the compacted dust would just fall apart ?


i’d bet if you added a bit of detergent it would work even better

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Date: 2/07/2022 23:01:27
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1903767
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

wookiemeister said:


wookiemeister said:

instead of drilling through the “rock” why don’t you just pour water onto it ?

i’d bet the compacted dust would just fall apart ?


i’d bet if you added a bit of detergent it would work even better

Well, first of all, water is a bit expensive out there. Better to blow it out with a gas.

Second, the dust is chemically welded together with covalent bonds, and extremely angular so no clear path for either brittle fracture or ductile slip.
If you put the water on before it was compacted, sure, but after it’s compacted is way too late.

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Date: 3/07/2022 00:12:34
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1903786
Subject: re: Vacuum welding

mollwollfumble said:


wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

instead of drilling through the “rock” why don’t you just pour water onto it ?

i’d bet the compacted dust would just fall apart ?


i’d bet if you added a bit of detergent it would work even better

Well, first of all, water is a bit expensive out there. Better to blow it out with a gas.

Second, the dust is chemically welded together with covalent bonds, and extremely angular so no clear path for either brittle fracture or ductile slip.
If you put the water on before it was compacted, sure, but after it’s compacted is way too late.


There’s meant to be water on the moon ?

High pressure water cutting ??

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