I can’t see a politics thread for this month?

David Speers on the secret minister thing

buffy said:

I can’t see a politics thread for this month?

David Speers on the secret minister thing

I fail to see why he puts himself above other individuals.

buffy said:

I can’t see a politics thread for this month?

David Speers on the secret minister thing

Isn’t this month August 2022?

dv said:

buffy said:

I can’t see a politics thread for this month?

David Speers on the secret minister thing

Isn’t this month August 2022?

Yes. I just started this thread. We have been July-ing.

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

I can’t see a politics thread for this month?

David Speers on the secret minister thing

Isn’t this month August 2022?

Yes. I just started this thread. We have been July-ing.

Ju lie. I August.

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

I can’t see a politics thread for this month?

David Speers on the secret minister thing

Isn’t this month August 2022?

Yes. I just started this thread. We have been July-ing.

So you did

A new statement on behalf of the GG has shifted the tone a bit, saying “The Governor-General had no reason to believe that appointments would not be communicated.”

dv said:

A new statement on behalf of the GG has shifted the tone a bit, saying “The Governor-General had no reason to believe that appointments would not be communicated.”

so he believed it would be communicated or are they trying to implausibly deny something

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

A new statement on behalf of the GG has shifted the tone a bit, saying “The Governor-General had no reason to believe that appointments would not be communicated.”

so he believed it would be communicated or are they trying to implausibly deny something

I mean these appointments occurred sporadically over the course of a year. You could think that maybe the first time, he was expecting it to be communicated, but surely after the third time around he was good enough at pattern recognition to see how this was going to go.

dv said:

buffy said:

dv said:

That would be pretty weird.

And difficult, I would think.

Haven’t you noticed how much weird there is about at the moment? It’s in the aether.

Pretty sure these things aren’t accidental and the actual fuckwits actively weaponise the whole disinformation network for their own nefarious purposes.

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

buffy said:

Haven’t you noticed how much weird there is about at the moment? It’s in the aether.

Pretty sure these things aren’t accidental and the actual fuckwits actively weaponise the whole disinformation network for their own nefarious purposes.

Indeed, distracts and manipulates people

good news, Labor continue to improve unemployment rate

The official unemployment rate fell to 3.4 per cent in July from 3.5 per cent the month before.

SCIENCE said:

good news, Labor continue to improve unemployment rate

The official unemployment rate fell to 3.4 per cent in July from 3.5 per cent the month before.

I blame Labor.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

good news, Labor continue to improve unemployment rate

The official unemployment rate fell to 3.4 per cent in July from 3.5 per cent the month before.

I blame Labor.

Also check this one,

Not only do millions of Australians not have the wage growth to help them absorb higher costs of living, including elevated interest rates, but the Reserve Bank — in being relatively late to raise rates — hasn’t given itself any room to stop and assess the economic impacts of the second most aggressive monetary policy tightening cycle in the bank’s history. Reserve Bank governor Philip Lowe disagrees with that. We asked the Reserve Bank to respond to suggestions it was too slow to respond to rising inflation, meaning it has had to raise rates faster than would otherwise be necessary.

wtf are they on about like, if the increase was later than others, but the total increase is not more than others, it seems disingenuous to complain that waiting too long meant the outcome was more painful… like it’sn’t COVID-19 surely where général idiocy means instead of 6 weeks of killing it off early, jokers all chose to enjoy death and health restriction forever¡

SCIENCE said:

Also check this one,

Not only do millions of Australians not have the wage growth to help them absorb higher costs of living, including elevated interest rates, but the Reserve Bank — in being relatively late to raise rates — hasn’t given itself any room to stop and assess the economic impacts of the second most aggressive monetary policy tightening cycle in the bank’s history. Reserve Bank governor Philip Lowe disagrees with that. We asked the Reserve Bank to respond to suggestions it was too slow to respond to rising inflation, meaning it has had to raise rates faster than would otherwise be necessary.

wtf are they on about like, if the increase was later than others, but the total increase is not more than others, it seems disingenuous to complain that waiting too long meant the outcome was more painful… like it’sn’t COVID-19 surely where général idiocy means instead of 6 weeks of killing it off early, jokers all chose to enjoy death and health restriction forever¡

I sometimes wonder why the Reserve Bank continues to exist.

Major banks choose to ignore it or listen to it as it suits their own purposes, and the RBA’s action plan always seems to be ‘do nothing, but if you have to do something, make sure it’s the wrong thing, and be sure to do it at the wrong time’.

captain_spalding said:

I blame Labor.

yeah that’s always the undercurrent with these things isn’t it, consider how even communists like Turnbull who vote yes and claim to be inclusive have to throw in a jab at the left and at left handers

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-15/scott-morrison-secret-portfolios-sinister-says-malcolm-turnbull/101335926

What’s the extra pension Morrison is entitled to after spending a cumulative extra five years as a government minister?

Scott Morrison apologises to Karen Andrews as senior National accuses former PM of breaching Coalition agreement

Former home affairs minister Karen Andrews has confirmed Scott Morrison has now contacted her to apologise for appointing himself to jointly control her position in secret.

Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie told ABC Radio his explanation made no sense.

“I struggle to understand and appreciate the need to keep these appointments secret — it goes against everything that underpins our system of government, of transparency and accountability,” Senator McKenzie said.

“There are many more questions that remain on the table.”

She also accused Mr Morrison of violating the confidential agreement that underpins the Liberal and Nationals Coalition governing arrangements.

“These arrangements essentially breached the Coalition agreement,” Senator McKenzie said.

“Our Coalition arrangements are a negotiated outcome and they include a ratio of cabinet portfolios … by essentially removing the authority of one of those ministers and giving it to a Liberal minister without that minister’s knowledge, essentially breached the Coalition agreement.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-18/scott-morrison-accused-of-breaching-coalition-agreement/101345094

dv said:

Scott Morrison apologises to Karen Andrews as senior National accuses former PM of breaching Coalition agreement

Former home affairs minister Karen Andrews has confirmed Scott Morrison has now contacted her to apologise for appointing himself to jointly control her position in secret.

Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie told ABC Radio his explanation made no sense.

“I struggle to understand and appreciate the need to keep these appointments secret — it goes against everything that underpins our system of government, of transparency and accountability,” Senator McKenzie said.

“There are many more questions that remain on the table.”

She also accused Mr Morrison of violating the confidential agreement that underpins the Liberal and Nationals Coalition governing arrangements.

“These arrangements essentially breached the Coalition agreement,” Senator McKenzie said.

“Our Coalition arrangements are a negotiated outcome and they include a ratio of cabinet portfolios … by essentially removing the authority of one of those ministers and giving it to a Liberal minister without that minister’s knowledge, essentially breached the Coalition agreement.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-18/scott-morrison-accused-of-breaching-coalition-agreement/101345094

A little devil sitting on his shoulder made him do it

I wonder if ex PM’s that hang around have a existential crisis

dv said:

Scott Morrison apologises to Karen Andrews as senior National accuses former PM of breaching Coalition agreement

Former home affairs minister Karen Andrews has confirmed Scott Morrison has now contacted her to apologise for appointing himself to jointly control her position in secret.

Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie told ABC Radio his explanation made no sense.

“I struggle to understand and appreciate the need to keep these appointments secret — it goes against everything that underpins our system of government, of transparency and accountability,” Senator McKenzie said.

“There are many more questions that remain on the table.”

She also accused Mr Morrison of violating the confidential agreement that underpins the Liberal and Nationals Coalition governing arrangements.

“These arrangements essentially breached the Coalition agreement,” Senator McKenzie said.

“Our Coalition arrangements are a negotiated outcome and they include a ratio of cabinet portfolios … by essentially removing the authority of one of those ministers and giving it to a Liberal minister without that minister’s knowledge, essentially breached the Coalition agreement.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-18/scott-morrison-accused-of-breaching-coalition-agreement/101345094

I hereby appoint myself to jointly control her position in secret without her knowledge, I’‘ll make sure I lie and mislead everyone….oh the fun…the fun…praise the lord…praise the lord..hi, ho, hi, ho…

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Scott Morrison apologises to Karen Andrews as senior National accuses former PM of breaching Coalition agreement

Former home affairs minister Karen Andrews has confirmed Scott Morrison has now contacted her to apologise for appointing himself to jointly control her position in secret.

Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie told ABC Radio his explanation made no sense.

“I struggle to understand and appreciate the need to keep these appointments secret — it goes against everything that underpins our system of government, of transparency and accountability,” Senator McKenzie said.

“There are many more questions that remain on the table.”

She also accused Mr Morrison of violating the confidential agreement that underpins the Liberal and Nationals Coalition governing arrangements.

“These arrangements essentially breached the Coalition agreement,” Senator McKenzie said.

“Our Coalition arrangements are a negotiated outcome and they include a ratio of cabinet portfolios … by essentially removing the authority of one of those ministers and giving it to a Liberal minister without that minister’s knowledge, essentially breached the Coalition agreement.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-18/scott-morrison-accused-of-breaching-coalition-agreement/101345094

I hereby appoint myself to jointly control her position in secret without her knowledge, I’‘ll make sure I lie and mislead everyone….oh the fun…the fun…praise the lord…praise the lord..hi, ho, hi, ho…

Does shimmy shimmy shake in front of Hawaiian barbecue.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Scott Morrison apologises to Karen Andrews as senior National accuses former PM of breaching Coalition agreement

Former home affairs minister Karen Andrews has confirmed Scott Morrison has now contacted her to apologise for appointing himself to jointly control her position in secret.

Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie told ABC Radio his explanation made no sense.

“I struggle to understand and appreciate the need to keep these appointments secret — it goes against everything that underpins our system of government, of transparency and accountability,” Senator McKenzie said.

“There are many more questions that remain on the table.”

She also accused Mr Morrison of violating the confidential agreement that underpins the Liberal and Nationals Coalition governing arrangements.

“These arrangements essentially breached the Coalition agreement,” Senator McKenzie said.

“Our Coalition arrangements are a negotiated outcome and they include a ratio of cabinet portfolios … by essentially removing the authority of one of those ministers and giving it to a Liberal minister without that minister’s knowledge, essentially breached the Coalition agreement.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-18/scott-morrison-accused-of-breaching-coalition-agreement/101345094

I hereby appoint myself to jointly control her position in secret without her knowledge, I’‘ll make sure I lie and mislead everyone….oh the fun…the fun…praise the lord…praise the lord..hi, ho, hi, ho…

Does shimmy shimmy shake in front of Hawaiian barbecue.

Does shimmy shimmy shake in front of Hawaiian barbecue holding a garden hose.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Scott Morrison apologises to Karen Andrews as senior National accuses former PM of breaching Coalition agreement

Former home affairs minister Karen Andrews has confirmed Scott Morrison has now contacted her to apologise for appointing himself to jointly control her position in secret.

Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie told ABC Radio his explanation made no sense.

“I struggle to understand and appreciate the need to keep these appointments secret — it goes against everything that underpins our system of government, of transparency and accountability,” Senator McKenzie said.

“There are many more questions that remain on the table.”

She also accused Mr Morrison of violating the confidential agreement that underpins the Liberal and Nationals Coalition governing arrangements.

“These arrangements essentially breached the Coalition agreement,” Senator McKenzie said.

“Our Coalition arrangements are a negotiated outcome and they include a ratio of cabinet portfolios … by essentially removing the authority of one of those ministers and giving it to a Liberal minister without that minister’s knowledge, essentially breached the Coalition agreement.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-18/scott-morrison-accused-of-breaching-coalition-agreement/101345094

A little devil sitting on his shoulder made him do it

Dutton’s orders, so I read this morning.

This is all very public now, isn’t it.

buffy said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

Scott Morrison apologises to Karen Andrews as senior National accuses former PM of breaching Coalition agreement

Former home affairs minister Karen Andrews has confirmed Scott Morrison has now contacted her to apologise for appointing himself to jointly control her position in secret.

Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie told ABC Radio his explanation made no sense.

“I struggle to understand and appreciate the need to keep these appointments secret — it goes against everything that underpins our system of government, of transparency and accountability,” Senator McKenzie said.

“There are many more questions that remain on the table.”

She also accused Mr Morrison of violating the confidential agreement that underpins the Liberal and Nationals Coalition governing arrangements.

“These arrangements essentially breached the Coalition agreement,” Senator McKenzie said.

“Our Coalition arrangements are a negotiated outcome and they include a ratio of cabinet portfolios … by essentially removing the authority of one of those ministers and giving it to a Liberal minister without that minister’s knowledge, essentially breached the Coalition agreement.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-18/scott-morrison-accused-of-breaching-coalition-agreement/101345094

A little devil sitting on his shoulder made him do it

Dutton’s orders, so I read this morning.

This is all very public now, isn’t it.

Mr Potato head throwing knifes.

Morrison is such a sneaky shit that you know that he did it so that he could ‘legitimately’ make decisions in those portfolios to suit whoever he was beholden to at the time, and leave whichever bunny was publicly appointed to that portfolio to carry the can.

Don’t know how he would have dealt with their denials of responsibility, but he possibly had some sort of ‘national security’ conditions applied to his shadow roles, so that he could stop them squawking about it all.

Dutton will have to send Morrison over to china for retraining.

Albanese hasn’t done a Rupert payoff. Good eh?

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2022/08/15/barilaro-withdrew-ny-position-scott-morrison-already-in-role/

furious said:

What’s the extra pension Morrison is entitled to after spending a cumulative extra five years as a government minister?

While ScoMo remains in office he will continue to accrue super at a minimum rate of 15.4%. There are some circumstances under which he could access his super once he leaves parliament but in general he’ll have to wait until the age of 60 ( pretty sure it’s less than the age that Joe Public can access their super).

There are also a series of perks that former PMs can access that cover things like administrative costs and travel.

sarahs mum said:

Albanese hasn’t done a Rupert payoff. Good eh?

What do you mean?

diddly-squat said:

furious said:

What’s the extra pension Morrison is entitled to after spending a cumulative extra five years as a government minister?

While ScoMo remains in office he will continue to accrue super at a minimum rate of 15.4%. There are some circumstances under which he could access his super once he leaves parliament but in general he’ll have to wait until the age of 60 ( pretty sure it’s less than the age that Joe Public can access their super).

There are also a series of perks that former PMs can access that cover things like administrative costs and travel.

You can use a transition to retirement thing and access from age 55.

buffy said:

diddly-squat said:

furious said:

What’s the extra pension Morrison is entitled to after spending a cumulative extra five years as a government minister?

While ScoMo remains in office he will continue to accrue super at a minimum rate of 15.4%. There are some circumstances under which he could access his super once he leaves parliament but in general he’ll have to wait until the age of 60 ( pretty sure it’s less than the age that Joe Public can access their super).

There are also a series of perks that former PMs can access that cover things like administrative costs and travel.

You can use a transition to retirement thing and access from age 55.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Jobs-and-employment-types/Working-as-an-employee/Leaving-the-workforce/Transition-to-retirement/

diddly-squat said:

furious said:

What’s the extra pension Morrison is entitled to after spending a cumulative extra five years as a government minister?

While ScoMo remains in office he will continue to accrue super at a minimum rate of 15.4%. There are some circumstances under which he could access his super once he leaves parliament but in general he’ll have to wait until the age of 60 ( pretty sure it’s less than the age that Joe Public can access their super).

There are also a series of perks that former PMs can access that cover things like administrative costs and travel.

Access to super depends on your ‘superannuation preservation age’. You have to be aged 55 to 60 depending on your birth year.

Details here:

https://www.ato.gov.au/super/self-managed-super-funds/paying-benefits/preservation-of-super/

dv said:

sarahs mum said:

Albanese hasn’t done a Rupert payoff. Good eh?

What do you mean?

he hasn’t given overseas broadcasting licenses or 30 mill for women’s sports or such. No thank you rupert payments at all.

How many jobs did ScoMo really have? | Sammy J (S5 Ep27)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg6ODcZQspM

I’ve been waiting for Michelle Grattan’s take on this past week. It’s not disappointing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-19/scott-morrison-secret-ministry-albanese-governor-general/101348956

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/aug/18/battery-farmed-eggs-to-be-phased-out-by-2036-as-australian-animal-welfare-reforms-are-brought-in?CMP=soc_567

Battery farms to be phased out by 2036

Yeah fair enough

dv said:

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/aug/18/battery-farmed-eggs-to-be-phased-out-by-2036-as-australian-animal-welfare-reforms-are-brought-in?CMP=soc_567

Battery farms to be phased out by 2036

Yeah fair enough

I’d imagine few people will be buying battery eggs by then anyway.

I always buy free range. They cost a bit more but it’s still very cheap protein.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/aug/18/battery-farmed-eggs-to-be-phased-out-by-2036-as-australian-animal-welfare-reforms-are-brought-in?CMP=soc_567

Battery farms to be phased out by 2036

Yeah fair enough

I’d imagine few people will be buying battery eggs by then anyway.

I always buy free range. They cost a bit more but it’s still very cheap protein.

Range eggs must be heavily subsidised.

Peak Warming Man said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/aug/18/battery-farmed-eggs-to-be-phased-out-by-2036-as-australian-animal-welfare-reforms-are-brought-in?CMP=soc_567

Battery farms to be phased out by 2036

Yeah fair enough

I’d imagine few people will be buying battery eggs by then anyway.

I always buy free range. They cost a bit more but it’s still very cheap protein.

Range eggs must be heavily subsidised.

yeah because they don’t have to pay for expensive batteries any more, those are going to the automotive industry

buffy said:

I’ve been waiting for Michelle Grattan’s take on this past week. It’s not disappointing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-19/scott-morrison-secret-ministry-albanese-governor-general/101348956

we thought that

The former PM affirmed at his train-wreck Wednesday news conference that he would remain in parliament as “a quiet Australian doing my job as a local member”.

he hadn’t engaged in politics of the day for months

or was that another lie shock horror

also we find these two a little incongruous

We don’t know precisely, but quite likely what happened was that Hurley got the paperwork – the process was administrative, Morrison was not sworn in face to face – and regarded it as routine, not giving it further thought.

General Hurley is a former chief of the defence force and a former NSW governor.

but hey maybe defence leaders aren’t meant to read deeper into things, just knee-jerk respond

nah it’s all right, all for convenience

But the governor-general’s “influence would disappear altogether if he were thought of as one who would do whatever he was told without asking the reasons why”. Albanese is backing Hurley. As he should, even if Hurley fell short of what he might have done to curb Morrison. But it is clear Hurley’s reputation has been damaged by what he – apparently – didn’t do.

SCIENCE said:

also we find these two a little incongruous

We don’t know precisely, but quite likely what happened was that Hurley got the paperwork – the process was administrative, Morrison was not sworn in face to face – and regarded it as routine, not giving it further thought.

General Hurley is a former chief of the defence force and a former NSW governor.

but hey maybe defence leaders aren’t meant to read deeper into things, just knee-jerk respond

nah it’s all right, all for convenience

But the governor-general’s “influence would disappear altogether if he were thought of as one who would do whatever he was told without asking the reasons why”. Albanese is backing Hurley. As he should, even if Hurley fell short of what he might have done to curb Morrison. But it is clear Hurley’s reputation has been damaged by what he – apparently – didn’t do.

(Shrugs) I think if he went against the elected government’s wishes it would be a bigger problem. It would be different if SM had done something unconstitutional or illegal rather than just “unusual”.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-19/cycad-dinosaur-plants-conservation-botanic-garden-sydney/101347332

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

I’ve been waiting for Michelle Grattan’s take on this past week. It’s not disappointing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-19/scott-morrison-secret-ministry-albanese-governor-general/101348956

we thought that

The former PM affirmed at his train-wreck Wednesday news conference that he would remain in parliament as “a quiet Australian doing my job as a local member”.

he hadn’t engaged in politics of the day for months

or was that another lie shock horror

Well what else would we expect; Morrison is, after all, a congenital liar.

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

also we find these two a little incongruous

We don’t know precisely, but quite likely what happened was that Hurley got the paperwork – the process was administrative, Morrison was not sworn in face to face – and regarded it as routine, not giving it further thought.

General Hurley is a former chief of the defence force and a former NSW governor.

but hey maybe defence leaders aren’t meant to read deeper into things, just knee-jerk respond

nah it’s all right, all for convenience

But the governor-general’s “influence would disappear altogether if he were thought of as one who would do whatever he was told without asking the reasons why”. Albanese is backing Hurley. As he should, even if Hurley fell short of what he might have done to curb Morrison. But it is clear Hurley’s reputation has been damaged by what he – apparently – didn’t do.

(Shrugs) I think if he went against the elected government’s wishes it would be a bigger problem. It would be different if SM had done something unconstitutional or illegal rather than just “unusual”.

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

also we find these two a little incongruous

We don’t know precisely, but quite likely what happened was that Hurley got the paperwork – the process was administrative, Morrison was not sworn in face to face – and regarded it as routine, not giving it further thought.

General Hurley is a former chief of the defence force and a former NSW governor.

but hey maybe defence leaders aren’t meant to read deeper into things, just knee-jerk respond

nah it’s all right, all for convenience

But the governor-general’s “influence would disappear altogether if he were thought of as one who would do whatever he was told without asking the reasons why”. Albanese is backing Hurley. As he should, even if Hurley fell short of what he might have done to curb Morrison. But it is clear Hurley’s reputation has been damaged by what he – apparently – didn’t do.

(Shrugs) I think if he went against the elected government’s wishes it would be a bigger problem. It would be different if SM had done something unconstitutional or illegal rather than just “unusual”.

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

He was always a complete failure but pure magic at covering it up by saying, look over there.

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

also we find these two a little incongruous

We don’t know precisely, but quite likely what happened was that Hurley got the paperwork – the process was administrative, Morrison was not sworn in face to face – and regarded it as routine, not giving it further thought.

General Hurley is a former chief of the defence force and a former NSW governor.

but hey maybe defence leaders aren’t meant to read deeper into things, just knee-jerk respond

nah it’s all right, all for convenience

But the governor-general’s “influence would disappear altogether if he were thought of as one who would do whatever he was told without asking the reasons why”. Albanese is backing Hurley. As he should, even if Hurley fell short of what he might have done to curb Morrison. But it is clear Hurley’s reputation has been damaged by what he – apparently – didn’t do.

(Shrugs) I think if he went against the elected government’s wishes it would be a bigger problem. It would be different if SM had done something unconstitutional or illegal rather than just “unusual”.

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

Well that’s a broader argument about Australia’s constitutional arrangements. Monarchists argue that it is good to have a head of state that is above the fray of party politics, and the GG is our HOS-by-proxy. It’s kind of weird though because in Australia the GG is not much of a “figurehead”, and indeed is scarcely thought of unless something goes wrong…

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

(Shrugs) I think if he went against the elected government’s wishes it would be a bigger problem. It would be different if SM had done something unconstitutional or illegal rather than just “unusual”.

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

He was always a complete failure but pure magic at covering it up by saying, look over there.

It what possible way is/was he a complete failure?

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

He was always a complete failure but pure magic at covering it up by saying, look over there.

It what possible way is/was he a complete failure?

To do his job let alone the other five.

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

He was always a complete failure but pure magic at covering it up by saying, look over there.

It what possible way is/was he a complete failure?

To do his job let alone the other five.

Do you think he did an OK job in regards to Covid

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

He was always a complete failure but pure magic at covering it up by saying, look over there.

It what possible way is/was he a complete failure?

To do his job let alone the other five.

The discussion was about the GG.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

It what possible way is/was he a complete failure?

To do his job let alone the other five.

Do you think he did an OK job in regards to Covid

He always looked like he was waffling to me. Puttting on his Billy Goat Gruff face to cover for it.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

It what possible way is/was he a complete failure?

To do his job let alone the other five.

The discussion was about the GG.

Oh. He only did what he was asked to do.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

It what possible way is/was he a complete failure?

To do his job let alone the other five.

Do you think he did an OK job in regards to Covid

the states had nothing to do with it

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

(Shrugs) I think if he went against the elected government’s wishes it would be a bigger problem. It would be different if SM had done something unconstitutional or illegal rather than just “unusual”.

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

Well that’s a broader argument about Australia’s constitutional arrangements. Monarchists argue that it is good to have a head of state that is above the fray of party politics, and the GG is our HOS-by-proxy. It’s kind of weird though because in Australia the GG is not much of a “figurehead”, and indeed is scarcely thought of unless something goes wrong…

This fiasco has highlighted some of the deficiencies in our constitutional arrangements. Each party was just “following the advice”.. but whose advice? There is no mention of a prime minister in the constitution but here is Morrison acting like a president or dictator. Nearly all the important matters are conducted “by convention” which is fine until some prime minister goes rogue. Is there a course of study available for a governor general to study the text or the subtext of these unwritten conventions? I don’t think so.

“Kind of weird” is the whole setup really. The PM was ghosting five other ministers. The GG was ghosting HM, our HOS-by-proxy . They can all FOAD.

IMO

By jove, what Clarke & Dawe would have done with this would have been one for the ages. Not Cunard at all.

sibeen said:

By jove, what Clarke & Dawe would have done with this would have been one for the ages. Not Cunard at all.

LOL.
Well not for Cunard.

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

(Shrugs) I think if he went against the elected government’s wishes it would be a bigger problem. It would be different if SM had done something unconstitutional or illegal rather than just “unusual”.

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

Well that’s a broader argument about Australia’s constitutional arrangements. Monarchists argue that it is good to have a head of state that is above the fray of party politics, and the GG is our HOS-by-proxy. It’s kind of weird though because in Australia the GG is not much of a “figurehead”, and indeed is scarcely thought of unless something goes wrong…

but he doesn’t have to rub up against the elected wishes, it’s more that in his statement there’s no evidence of pause for thought and questioning on whether this is normal appropriate ethical or sensible practice

agree with diddly-squat that the pub test doesn’t have to be a binding one

Ian said:

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

I don’t disagree, but what’s the point of having a guy whose actual only job is to provide oversight of the government if he’s not even applying the most simple of pub tests.

Well that’s a broader argument about Australia’s constitutional arrangements. Monarchists argue that it is good to have a head of state that is above the fray of party politics, and the GG is our HOS-by-proxy. It’s kind of weird though because in Australia the GG is not much of a “figurehead”, and indeed is scarcely thought of unless something goes wrong…

This fiasco has highlighted some of the deficiencies in our constitutional arrangements. Each party was just “following the advice”.. but whose advice? There is no mention of a prime minister in the constitution but here is Morrison acting like a president or dictator. Nearly all the important matters are conducted “by convention” which is fine until some prime minister goes rogue. Is there a course of study available for a governor general to study the text or the subtext of these unwritten conventions? I don’t think so.

“Kind of weird” is the whole setup really. The PM was ghosting five other ministers. The GG was ghosting HM, our HOS-by-proxy . They can all FOAD.

IMO

fair, we mean, STEMocracy would pretty much do away with these problems at a fundamental level

This is all CHINA’s fault, fuck CHINA¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-19/fiji-lami-naval-maritime-facility-australian-funded/101341428

SCIENCE said:

Ian said:

dv said:

Well that’s a broader argument about Australia’s constitutional arrangements. Monarchists argue that it is good to have a head of state that is above the fray of party politics, and the GG is our HOS-by-proxy. It’s kind of weird though because in Australia the GG is not much of a “figurehead”, and indeed is scarcely thought of unless something goes wrong…

This fiasco has highlighted some of the deficiencies in our constitutional arrangements. Each party was just “following the advice”.. but whose advice? There is no mention of a prime minister in the constitution but here is Morrison acting like a president or dictator. Nearly all the important matters are conducted “by convention” which is fine until some prime minister goes rogue. Is there a course of study available for a governor general to study the text or the subtext of these unwritten conventions? I don’t think so.

“Kind of weird” is the whole setup really. The PM was ghosting five other ministers. The GG was ghosting HM, our HOS-by-proxy . They can all FOAD.

IMO

fair, we mean, STEMocracy would pretty much do away with these problems at a fundamental level

Right. Who ever heard of a mad scientist?

sibeen said:

By jove, what Clarke & Dawe would have done with this would have been one for the ages. Not Cunard at all.

Micallef had a bit of a go the other night. He got a laugh just by smirking before he even opened his mouth at the beginning of the show. A bit disappointed they didn’t revive their Matthias character though.

good to know that previous government have been keeping us in the best company

“Every country except Russia has them and it does mean that we get sent substandard vehicles by manufacturers in relation to emissions, because other nations require the best emission vehicles,” Mr Bowen told the ABC.

buffy said:

sibeen said:

By jove, what Clarke & Dawe would have done with this would have been one for the ages. Not Cunard at all.

Micallef had a bit of a go the other night. He got a laugh just by smirking before he even opened his mouth at the beginning of the show. A bit disappointed they didn’t revive their Matthias character though.

Ian said:

SCIENCE said:

Ian said:

This fiasco has highlighted some of the deficiencies in our constitutional arrangements. Each party was just “following the advice”.. but whose advice? There is no mention of a prime minister in the constitution but here is Morrison acting like a president or dictator. Nearly all the important matters are conducted “by convention” which is fine until some prime minister goes rogue. Is there a course of study available for a governor general to study the text or the subtext of these unwritten conventions? I don’t think so.

“Kind of weird” is the whole setup really. The PM was ghosting five other ministers. The GG was ghosting HM, our HOS-by-proxy . They can all FOAD.

IMO

fair, we mean, STEMocracy would pretty much do away with these problems at a fundamental level

Right. Who ever heard of a mad scientist?

Fortunately the S in STEM stands for SCIENCE, not scientist¡

Get It: The Private Employment Industry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoZ2blimJD0

Current Morgan poll shows little change in voting intention, and some improvement in confidence in Government.

Heh

Bunny_Fugger said:

oh all right so we laughed but then here’s some food for thought

that bloke we don’t even know who he is has been prime minister for what near 3 months now and have we seen a single image of him pretending to be some tree hugger or Red Army officer or something else like the kind of shit we see when we go to the zoo and you can put your face in the oval cut out

we mean fk it’s been 3 months and we’re still seeing Marketing’s ugly mug plastered into every goddamn role anyone can think of

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/scott-morrison-appointments-not-found-governor-general-reports/101351660

Waffle.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/scott-morrison-appointments-not-found-governor-general-reports/101351660

Waffle.

The German political landscape was dramatically affected by the 1929 Wall Street Crash, which hampered economic aid to Germany. The Great Depression brought the German economy to a halt and further polarized German politics. Hitler and the Nazis began to exploit the crisis and loudly criticized the ruling government. During this tumultuous time, the German Communist Party also began campaigning and called for a revolution. Business leaders, fearful of a communist takeover, began supporting the Nazi party. In 1932 the Nazis held the largest number of seats in the Reichstag, albeit short of an absolute majority. Seeking to capture the rising Nazi electoral success, Hitler ran for the presidency in 1932 but was defeated by the incumbent Paul von Hindenburg.

Traditionally, the leader of the party who held the most seats in the Reichstag was appointed Chancellor. However, President Paul von Hindenburg was hesitant to appoint Hitler as chancellor. Following several backroom negotiations—which included industrialists, Hindenburg’s son, the former chancellor Franz von Papen, and Hitler—Hindenburg acquiesced and on 30 January 1933, he formally appointed Adolf Hitler as Germany’s new chancellor. Although he was chancellor, Hitler was not yet an absolute dictator.

The groundwork for the Nazi dictatorship was laid when the Reichstag was set on fire in February. Believing the communists were behind the arson, Paul von Hindenburg passed the Reichstag Fire Decree, which severely curtailed the liberties and rights of German citizens. Using the decree, Hitler began eliminating his political opponents. In Hitler’s eyes the decree was insufficient and he proposed the Enabling Act of 1933. This law gave the German government the power to override individual rights prescribed by the constitution. The law also gave the Chancellor (Hitler) emergency powers to pass and enforce laws without parliamentary oversight.

Hitler’s rise to power was completed in August 1934 when President Paul von Hindenburg died. Hitler merged the Chancellorship with the Presidency and became the Führer of Germany.

Hitler went out of his way to seek financial support from wealthy businessmen, without whose support his assumption of power would have been impossible. Hitler framed their partnership as an essential factor in defeating the rising threat of communism. The party engaged in electoral battles in which Hitler participated as a speaker and organizer.

Once the Nazi dictatorship was firmly established, the Nazis themselves created a mythology surrounding their rise to power.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/scott-morrison-appointments-not-found-governor-general-reports/101351660

Waffle.

Curiouser and curiouser.

I mean it is kind of the same as awarding a dog

dv said:

He’s double dealin’ with your best friend
That’s when the teardrops start, fella
Pick up the phone, I’m here alone
Or make a social call
Come right in, forget about him
We’ll have ourselves a ball, hey

Dark Orange said:

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

He’s double dealin’ with your best friend
That’s when the teardrops start, fella
Pick up the phone, I’m here alone
Or make a social call
Come right in, forget about him
We’ll have ourselves a ball, hey

“The Village Idiots”

Macho Man, Give Me a Break, or I Won’t Take No for an Answer ¿

https://theaimn.com/come-on-bridget-its-a-bit-late-for-outrage/

Link

LOL @ the comments.

dv said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/scott-morrison-appointments-not-found-governor-general-reports/101351660

Waffle.

Curiouser and curiouser.

I mean it is kind of the same as awarding a dog

maybe she meant Waffen

Alarmingly, it was the German jurist and one-time Nazi Carl Schmitt, who wrote the playbook for the authoritarian takeover of democracy. Schmitt set it out in one sentence: “Sovereign is he who declares the exception.”

Simply: construct an emergency, claim extraordinary powers, and put yourself above the rules.

Morrison’s move was exceptional. The COVID emergency, he said, justified his exception even if that meant ultimately deceiving the Australian people.

This is not to put Morrison in the grotesque company of Nazi authoritarians. But it is to sound an alarm. Emergency, secrecy and exceptionalism is where authoritarianism breeds.

oh wait what did we say

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-21/scott-morrison-secret-appointments-weakening-australia-democracy/101350322

Carl Schmitt’s shadow darkens the 21st century. Just look around our world. Autocrats are stealing democracy from Turkey, Brazil, India, the Philippines, Hungary, Poland. In every case leaders have used (or confected) an emergency — refugees, terrorism, economic collapse, religious strife, political extremism — to claim exceptional powers. They have put themselves above the law; suspended parliament, corrupted the judiciary, imposed unconstitutional measures. It has gone hand in hand with a crisis of liberalism.

hey it’s almost as if that author deliberately forgot to menton USUK there

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I didn’t notice anyone talking about it at the IGA today, but then people were there to shop, not discuss fucken geese like Scomo and Joyboy.

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

The nation’s most effective retail politician, someone claimed. Don’t think many are buying what he’s flogging though.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I didn’t notice anyone talking about it at the IGA today, but then people were there to shop, not discuss fucken geese like Scomo and Joyboy.

sure but did they also dismiss the change in four wheel drive regulations

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I didn’t notice anyone talking about it at the IGA today, but then people were there to shop, not discuss fucken geese like Scomo and Joyboy.

sure but did they also dismiss the change in four wheel drive regulations

I heard no murmur of such matters.

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

Strange how they think they can cancel people’s concern by telling them “you don’t really care about it”.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

I mean half the parliamentary Libs and all of the Nats are steaming mad about it…

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

Strange how they think they can cancel people’s concern by telling them “you don’t really care about it”.

dv said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Saw Joyce on Insiders re the multiply massive ministerial man

What a fucken goose. “People don’t care about this issue, no one is talking about this down at the IGA, people are more worried about the change in four wheel drive regulations.”

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

I mean half the parliamentary Libs and all of the Nats are steaming mad about it…

And it seems even Rupert is upset, so Sky News is probably going to get a smack.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

Strange how they think they can cancel people’s concern by telling them “you don’t really care about it”.

:)

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

Strange how they think they can cancel people’s concern by telling them “you don’t really care about it”.

you all laugh but who would have imagined that one of the roles of the media is to persuade receivers of its content

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

sarahs mum said:

I care. And it seems lots of people I know are talking about it. but I did see a skynews thumbnail saying it was a non issue.

I mean half the parliamentary Libs and all of the Nats are steaming mad about it…

And it seems even Rupert is upset, so Sky News is probably going to get a smack.

He’s upset which is why he’s trying to shut the common public up about it.

In a 2010 reshuffle of his Cabinet, Rudd demoted Garrett to the outer ministry in response to Garrett’s administration of the Home Insulation Program (HIP), which was linked to four deaths, over 100 house fires and allegations of fraud. It was subsequently revealed in May 2010 that Garrett had written to Rudd on four occasions raising concerns about safety. Following the leadership spill in June 2010, which saw Rudd replaced by Julia Gillard, Garrett’s colleague Gary Gray revealed most MPs believed Garrett was demoted because “…Rudd had a shocking interview on The 7.30 Report and needed a scapegoat”. Gray stated:

The majority of caucus felt he had been badly treated. For Rudd and his office to position Garrett as the fall guy was disgraceful, weak, sneaky, unprincipled and just plain wrong. All along, Peter properly put his objections to the administration of the program on the record. How can you have a situation where Rudd executes complete and total influence, micromanages everything, yet not the home insulation program? The shape and execution of the program was certainly designed by the prime minister’s office, if not the prime minister himself.

Education Minister (2010–2013)Edit

Garrett initially retained the portfolio of Environment Minister in the First Gillard Ministry, and was re-elected at the 2010 election, albeit with a substantially reduced majority, suffering a two-party preferred negative swing against him of 8.1%. After the election, Gillard promoted him back to the full Cabinet as Minister for School Education, Early Childhood and Youth.

In September 2011, Garrett announced an alteration of the National School Chaplaincy Program by offering schools the opportunity to employ, instead of “a religious support worker” (chaplain), a “secular student well-being officer”. In February 2012, Garrett, alongside Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin, announced an expansion of the Improving School Enrollment and Attendance through Welfare Reform Measure (SEAM), a program through which parents of indigenous students in the Northern Territory can have their Centrelink payments suspended for three months if their children are not attending or enrolled in school. Though the Government claimed that the program improved indigenous school attendance, it was heavily criticised by some indigenous spokespeople and academics for being excessively punitive rather than implementing other policies that may have been far more effective in improving school attendance.

In 2013, Garrett pledged to increase funding to public schools as recommended in the Gonski Report, in order to reduce inequality in educational performance. In a 2014 book review, Garrett stated that he was concerned at the growth of private schools, which could lead to “an increasingly segregated school system”. He noted that the National School Chaplaincy Program needed to change their guidelines because “the line between chaplains acting to support students in the provision of general pastoral care and proselytising was too easily crossed”.

Garrett supported Gillard in both 2013 leadership spills. After the June spill, where Rudd defeated Gillard, Garrett immediately announced his resignation as Education Minister, and the following day declared that he would not seek re-election at the 2013 election, ending his career in Parliament after nine years.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/question-millions-australian-future-leaders-foundation-funding/100965562

This piece is 4 months old but it discusses some of the concerns about a charity linked to the governor general that has been awarded 18 million of federal money despite having no relevant experience or staff or an address or anything but a vague description. Mentoring program for leaders? Cool, pile some privilege on top of that privilege.

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/question-millions-australian-future-leaders-foundation-funding/100965562

This piece is 4 months old but it discusses some of the concerns about a charity linked to the governor general that has been awarded 18 million of federal money despite having no relevant experience or staff or an address or anything but a vague description. Mentoring program for leaders? Cool, pile some privilege on top of that privilege.

Nice, a special club for those in the know and who they know.

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/question-millions-australian-future-leaders-foundation-funding/100965562

This piece is 4 months old but it discusses some of the concerns about a charity linked to the governor general that has been awarded 18 million of federal money despite having no relevant experience or staff or an address or anything but a vague description. Mentoring program for leaders? Cool, pile some privilege on top of that privilege.

Another srecret from Scotty?

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/question-millions-australian-future-leaders-foundation-funding/100965562

This piece is 4 months old but it discusses some of the concerns about a charity linked to the governor general that has been awarded 18 million of federal money despite having no relevant experience or staff or an address or anything but a vague description. Mentoring program for leaders? Cool, pile some privilege on top of that privilege.

I remember that. I wonder what happened next.

buffy said:

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/question-millions-australian-future-leaders-foundation-funding/100965562

This piece is 4 months old but it discusses some of the concerns about a charity linked to the governor general that has been awarded 18 million of federal money despite having no relevant experience or staff or an address or anything but a vague description. Mentoring program for leaders? Cool, pile some privilege on top of that privilege.

I remember that. I wonder what happened next.

Probably as much as that Barrier Reef crowd that got nearly half a billiion?

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/question-millions-australian-future-leaders-foundation-funding/100965562

This piece is 4 months old but it discusses some of the concerns about a charity linked to the governor general that has been awarded 18 million of federal money despite having no relevant experience or staff or an address or anything but a vague description. Mentoring program for leaders? Cool, pile some privilege on top of that privilege.

I remember that. I wonder what happened next.

Probably as much as that Barrier Reef crowd that got nearly half a billiion?

Also remember the articles but not much more.

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

I remember that. I wonder what happened next.

Probably as much as that Barrier Reef crowd that got nearly half a billiion?

Also remember the articles but not much more.

It would appear to have gone ahead.

https://australiacouncil.gov.au/investment-and-development/leadership-program/future-leaders-program/

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Probably as much as that Barrier Reef crowd that got nearly half a billiion?

Also remember the articles but not much more.

It would appear to have gone ahead.

https://australiacouncil.gov.au/investment-and-development/leadership-program/future-leaders-program/

sigh

we continue to stake our position that a FICAC would do more for leadership in this country than any amount of that bullshittery

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

Also remember the articles but not much more.

It would appear to have gone ahead.

https://australiacouncil.gov.au/investment-and-development/leadership-program/future-leaders-program/

sigh

we continue to stake our position that a FICAC would do more for leadership in this country than any amount of that bullshittery

Reasonable position.

SCIENCE said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

Also remember the articles but not much more.

It would appear to have gone ahead.

https://australiacouncil.gov.au/investment-and-development/leadership-program/future-leaders-program/

sigh

we continue to stake our position that a FICAC would do more for leadership in this country than any amount of that bullshittery

Make a stand.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/2022/08/16/morrison-delusional-or-loose-unit/

>>Apparently the idea was first floated in July 2020 and then promoted by Hurley. Less than two years later they hit the jackpot with a five-year $18 million grant from 2021-22 – as well as further money in the pipeline.<<

That’s about the Future Leaders Program. How does that timing go with the first couple of secret ministry swearing ins? Do we have a conspiracy theory here?

we suppose if it’s really what they’re doing then Labor might well be playing it right with the slow burn a la investigation by a thousand cuts into death of Jamal Khashoggi

buffy said:

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/2022/08/16/morrison-delusional-or-loose-unit/

>>Apparently the idea was first floated in July 2020 and then promoted by Hurley. Less than two years later they hit the jackpot with a five-year $18 million grant from 2021-22 – as well as further money in the pipeline.<<

That’s about the Future Leaders Program. How does that timing go with the first couple of secret ministry swearing ins? Do we have a conspiracy theory here?

I feel sure we could develop one, if needed.

Michael V said:

buffy said:

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/2022/08/16/morrison-delusional-or-loose-unit/

>>Apparently the idea was first floated in July 2020 and then promoted by Hurley. Less than two years later they hit the jackpot with a five-year $18 million grant from 2021-22 – as well as further money in the pipeline.<<

That’s about the Future Leaders Program. How does that timing go with the first couple of secret ministry swearing ins? Do we have a conspiracy theory here?

I feel sure we could develop one, if needed.

Woudn’t need much work. ;)

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

buffy said:

<

That’s about the Future Leaders Program. How does that timing go with the first couple of secret ministry swearing ins? Do we have a conspiracy theory here?

I feel sure we could develop one, if needed.

Woudn’t need much work. ;)

Reminds me of Qld Health.

Management always expressed distress at how staff seemed to feel that management were busy pursuing ‘secret agendas’, and at a loss as to how to combat that perception.

As one respondent bluntly put it, ‘try not behaving most of the time as if you do have f***ing secret agendas. Stop playing ‘Secret Squirrel’ with everything’.

Anthony Albanese has also flagged a separate review of Mr Morrison’s conduct, which has been welcomed by Liberal moderate Bridget Archer, who believes her former leader should reflect on his position in parliament.

“I do just think that people should reflect on the great privilege and responsibility that they have when they are elected to these roles, and think about whether they are fulfilling those obligations,” she said.

“If they are not, then they might want to reflect on doing something else.

“I am not responsible for those actions but I am forced into a situation where I’m meant to defend them and I won’t.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-22/liberal-mp-says-scott-morrison-should-reflect-on-his-position-in/101355884

I think Elbo might have jumped the shark now.

Peak Warming Man said:

I think Elbo might have jumped the shark now.

You tell em

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think Elbo might have jumped the shark now.

You tell em

Where is the Luv.

dv said:

Anthony Albanese has also flagged a separate review of Mr Morrison’s conduct, which has been welcomed by Liberal moderate Bridget Archer, who believes her former leader should reflect on his position in parliament.

“I do just think that people should reflect on the great privilege and responsibility that they have when they are elected to these roles, and think about whether they are fulfilling those obligations,” she said.

“If they are not, then they might want to reflect on doing something else.

“I am not responsible for those actions but I am forced into a situation where I’m meant to defend them and I won’t.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-22/liberal-mp-says-scott-morrison-should-reflect-on-his-position-in/101355884

Maybe she can change the party from within.

we won’t hold our breath.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Anthony Albanese has also flagged a separate review of Mr Morrison’s conduct, which has been welcomed by Liberal moderate Bridget Archer, who believes her former leader should reflect on his position in parliament.

“I do just think that people should reflect on the great privilege and responsibility that they have when they are elected to these roles, and think about whether they are fulfilling those obligations,” she said.

“If they are not, then they might want to reflect on doing something else.

“I am not responsible for those actions but I am forced into a situation where I’m meant to defend them and I won’t.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-22/liberal-mp-says-scott-morrison-should-reflect-on-his-position-in/101355884

Maybe she can change the party from within.

we won’t hold our breath.

She was happy enough to proudly present the Scomo when he did Tasmania during the election campaign.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Anthony Albanese has also flagged a separate review of Mr Morrison’s conduct, which has been welcomed by Liberal moderate Bridget Archer, who believes her former leader should reflect on his position in parliament.

“I do just think that people should reflect on the great privilege and responsibility that they have when they are elected to these roles, and think about whether they are fulfilling those obligations,” she said.

“If they are not, then they might want to reflect on doing something else.

“I am not responsible for those actions but I am forced into a situation where I’m meant to defend them and I won’t.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-22/liberal-mp-says-scott-morrison-should-reflect-on-his-position-in/101355884

Maybe she can change the party from within.

we won’t hold our breath.

She was happy enough to proudly present the Scomo when he did Tasmania during the election campaign.

Classic Leopards Eating People’s Faces Party

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Anthony Albanese has also flagged a separate review of Mr Morrison’s conduct, which has been welcomed by Liberal moderate Bridget Archer, who believes her former leader should reflect on his position in parliament.

“I do just think that people should reflect on the great privilege and responsibility that they have when they are elected to these roles, and think about whether they are fulfilling those obligations,” she said.

“If they are not, then they might want to reflect on doing something else.

“I am not responsible for those actions but I am forced into a situation where I’m meant to defend them and I won’t.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-22/liberal-mp-says-scott-morrison-should-reflect-on-his-position-in/101355884

Maybe she can change the party from within.

we won’t hold our breath.

She was happy enough to proudly present the Scomo when he did Tasmania during the election campaign.

she has broken ranks a few times.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Anthony Albanese has also flagged a separate review of Mr Morrison’s conduct, which has been welcomed by Liberal moderate Bridget Archer, who believes her former leader should reflect on his position in parliament.

“I do just think that people should reflect on the great privilege and responsibility that they have when they are elected to these roles, and think about whether they are fulfilling those obligations,” she said.

“If they are not, then they might want to reflect on doing something else.

“I am not responsible for those actions but I am forced into a situation where I’m meant to defend them and I won’t.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-22/liberal-mp-says-scott-morrison-should-reflect-on-his-position-in/101355884

Maybe she can change the party from within.

we won’t hold our breath.

She was happy enough to proudly present the Scomo when he did Tasmania during the election campaign.

But did she know about the ministerial gazumping at that time?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-22/albanese-to-release-solicitor-general-advice-morrison-ministries/101356980

Peak Warming Man said:

I think Elbo might have jumped the shark now.

Right on cue, Resolve has a new poll out today, Albanese leads Dutton as preferred prime minister 55-17.

They didn’t do a 2pp, but on primary vote intention…

Labor 42 Coalition 28 Greens 12 Independents 8 One Nation 5 UAP 2

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/post-election-surge-in-support-for-anthony-albanese-s-new-labor-government-20220822-p5bbol.html

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think Elbo might have jumped the shark now.

Right on cue, Resolve has a new poll out today, Albanese leads Dutton as preferred prime minister 55-17.

They didn’t do a 2pp, but on primary vote intention…

Labor 42 Coalition 28 Greens 12 Independents 8 One Nation 5 UAP 2

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/post-election-surge-in-support-for-anthony-albanese-s-new-labor-government-20220822-p5bbol.html

Jaysus, 17% of those polled would actually prefer Dutton.

sibeen said:

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think Elbo might have jumped the shark now.

Right on cue, Resolve has a new poll out today, Albanese leads Dutton as preferred prime minister 55-17.

They didn’t do a 2pp, but on primary vote intention…

Labor 42 Coalition 28 Greens 12 Independents 8 One Nation 5 UAP 2

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/post-election-surge-in-support-for-anthony-albanese-s-new-labor-government-20220822-p5bbol.html

Jaysus, 17% of those polled would actually prefer Dutton.

Some people are mostly concerned about changes to four wheel drive regulation.

dv said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Right on cue, Resolve has a new poll out today, Albanese leads Dutton as preferred prime minister 55-17.

They didn’t do a 2pp, but on primary vote intention…

Labor 42 Coalition 28 Greens 12 Independents 8 One Nation 5 UAP 2

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/post-election-surge-in-support-for-anthony-albanese-s-new-labor-government-20220822-p5bbol.html

Jaysus, 17% of those polled would actually prefer Dutton.

Some people are mostly concerned about changes to four wheel drive regulation.

Resolve didn’t publish a 2PP estimate but my back of the envelope calcs give me 61-39…

We’ll see what the boffins say tomorrow.

dv said:

dv said:

sibeen said:

Jaysus, 17% of those polled would actually prefer Dutton.

Some people are mostly concerned about changes to four wheel drive regulation.

Resolve didn’t publish a 2PP estimate but my back of the envelope calcs give me 61-39…

We’ll see what the boffins say tomorrow.

Kev Bonham and Pollbudger both came to the same calculation, which is that the poll is equivalent to 61.3% ALP vs 38.7% Coaltion on a two party preferred basis.

Albanese’s approval is at 61%, disapproval at 22%. Dutton is at 30% approval, 38% disapproval.

These are the kinds of numbers we haven’t seen since the early Rudd honeymoon. OTOH it is just one poll, it could be an outlier, and we’ll see how the other polls come out next week.

dv said:

These are the kinds of numbers we haven’t seen since the early Rudd honeymoon. OTOH it is just one poll, it could be an outlier, and we’ll see how the other polls come out next week.

Well that doesn’t bode well.

Though Albo does seem to be a different sort of character to Ruddo.

So anyway, what did Scomoman actually do with the super-powers he granted himself?

The Rev Dodgson said:

So anyway, what did Scomoman actually do with the super-powers he granted himself?

To our knowledge there was only one instance where he used it, which was to override Pitt on a gas project.

The Rev Dodgson said:

So anyway, what did Scomoman actually do with the super-powers he granted himself?

Wear a cape?

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So anyway, what did Scomoman actually do with the super-powers he granted himself?

To our knowledge there was only one instance where he used it, which was to override Pitt on a gas project.

Ask Christine Holgate?

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So anyway, what did Scomoman actually do with the super-powers he granted himself?

To our knowledge there was only one instance where he used it, which was to override Pitt on a gas project.

And the Greens are still outraged.

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So anyway, what did Scomoman actually do with the super-powers he granted himself?

To our knowledge there was only one instance where he used it, which was to override Pitt on a gas project.

And the Greens are still outraged.

IKR when you think of it he’s really a hero

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/behind-the-scenes-of-scott-morrisons-power-grab/101358232

Link

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/fact-check-sally-mcmanus-labour-s-share-of-gdp/101357044

Sally McManus says labour’s share of GDP is the lowest it’s been since 1960. Is that correct?

The Albanese government has announced it will host a jobs and skills summit in Canberra next month, with the two-day talkfest expected to inform an employment white paper, which it claims will “help shape the future of Australia’s labour market”.

Appearing on ABC TV following the announcement, the secretary of the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU), Sally McManus, said among the “serious issues” needing to be addressed at the summit was the “issue of workers’ share of our overall wealth”.

“Labour’s share in the GDP is at its lowest level; it hasn’t been at this point since 1960,” she told Afternoon Briefing.

“That’s a shameful situation for us to be in as a country”

So, is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

The verdict

Ms McManus’s claim is a fair call.

Figures published by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) show that, since 1959, the compensation of employees as a share of the nation’s GDP has never been lower.

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/fact-check-sally-mcmanus-labour-s-share-of-gdp/101357044

Sally McManus says labour’s share of GDP is the lowest it’s been since 1960. Is that correct?

The Albanese government has announced it will host a jobs and skills summit in Canberra next month, with the two-day talkfest expected to inform an employment white paper, which it claims will “help shape the future of Australia’s labour market”.

Appearing on ABC TV following the announcement, the secretary of the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU), Sally McManus, said among the “serious issues” needing to be addressed at the summit was the “issue of workers’ share of our overall wealth”.

“Labour’s share in the GDP is at its lowest level; it hasn’t been at this point since 1960,” she told Afternoon Briefing.

“That’s a shameful situation for us to be in as a country”

So, is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

The verdict

Ms McManus’s claim is a fair call.

Figures published by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) show that, since 1959, the compensation of employees as a share of the nation’s GDP has never been lower.

Does “labour’s share” include all employees?

If so a drop in labour’s share might be due to less going to highly paid lawyers, insurance agents, and weather girls, and more going to honest, hard working self-employed builders, dog-groomers, and consultant engineers, which could be a good thing.

You seem to be in quite an optimistic mood today

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/fact-check-sally-mcmanus-labour-s-share-of-gdp/101357044

Sally McManus says labour’s share of GDP is the lowest it’s been since 1960. Is that correct?

The Albanese government has announced it will host a jobs and skills summit in Canberra next month, with the two-day talkfest expected to inform an employment white paper, which it claims will “help shape the future of Australia’s labour market”.

Appearing on ABC TV following the announcement, the secretary of the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU), Sally McManus, said among the “serious issues” needing to be addressed at the summit was the “issue of workers’ share of our overall wealth”.

“Labour’s share in the GDP is at its lowest level; it hasn’t been at this point since 1960,” she told Afternoon Briefing.

“That’s a shameful situation for us to be in as a country”

So, is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

The verdict

Ms McManus’s claim is a fair call.

Figures published by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) show that, since 1959, the compensation of employees as a share of the nation’s GDP has never been lower.

Does “labour’s share” include all employees?

It’s almost like you can find answers with a search engine.
https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/5260.0.55.002Feature+Article32016-17

poikilotherm said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/fact-check-sally-mcmanus-labour-s-share-of-gdp/101357044

Sally McManus says labour’s share of GDP is the lowest it’s been since 1960. Is that correct?

The Albanese government has announced it will host a jobs and skills summit in Canberra next month, with the two-day talkfest expected to inform an employment white paper, which it claims will “help shape the future of Australia’s labour market”.

Appearing on ABC TV following the announcement, the secretary of the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU), Sally McManus, said among the “serious issues” needing to be addressed at the summit was the “issue of workers’ share of our overall wealth”.

“Labour’s share in the GDP is at its lowest level; it hasn’t been at this point since 1960,” she told Afternoon Briefing.

“That’s a shameful situation for us to be in as a country”

So, is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

The verdict

Ms McManus’s claim is a fair call.

Figures published by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) show that, since 1959, the compensation of employees as a share of the nation’s GDP has never been lower.

Does “labour’s share” include all employees?

It’s almost like you can find answers with a search engine.
https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/5260.0.55.002Feature+Article32016-17

Why, when my assistants can do it for me? :)

So it seems they do include sole-trader income under the “labour income” heading, as well as all employee income, but it does look like some income of incorporated sole-trader businesses might be left out.

Probably more significant is that mining has a very low % of “labour income”, and that has been an increasing part of GDP.

The legal advice on the Scott Morrison thing

buffy said:

The legal advice on the Scott Morrison thing

Here’s the Solicitor General’s letter
https://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/sg-no-12-of-2022.pdf

I quite like this way of handling it (from my previous link)

>>The Prime Minister says lots of people have expressed their views as to what consequences Scott Morrison should face.

He says the consequences should come down to Morrison’s own party.

“Quite clearly, I think that Mr Morrison’s behaviour was extraordinary,” Albanese says.

“It undermined our parliamentary democracy and he does need to be held accountable it.”<<

But will they clean up their own mess?

dv said:

buffy said:

The legal advice on the Scott Morrison thing

Here’s the Solicitor General’s letter
https://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/sg-no-12-of-2022.pdf

I haven’t read that through yet. But it seems the advice is only about one of the ministries, the one where he did intervene (that we know about).

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

The legal advice on the Scott Morrison thing

Here’s the Solicitor General’s letter
https://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/sg-no-12-of-2022.pdf

I haven’t read that through yet. But it seems the advice is only about one of the ministries, the one where he did intervene (that we know about).

The Governor-General, acting on the advice of the Prime Minister, has power under s 64 of the Constitution to appoint an existing Minister of State, including the Prime Minister, to administer an additional department of State.
The Governor-General has no discretion to refuse to accept the Prime Minister’s advice in relation to such an appointment. Nor is there any constitutional or legislative requirement for notification of such an appointment as a condition of its validity, or for the Minister to subscribe another oath or affirmation following such an appointment. Accordingly, Mr Morrison was validly appointed to administer DISER on 15 April 2021.

That said, the fact that the Parliament, the public and the other Ministers who thereafter administered DISER concurrently with Mr Morrison were not informed of Mr Morrison’s appointment was inconsistent with the conventions and practices that form an essential part of the system of responsible government prescribed by Ch II of the Constitution. That is because it is impossible for Parliament and the public to hold Ministers accountable for the proper administration of particular departments if the identity of the Ministers who have been appointed to administer those departments is not publicised. That conclusion does not depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was responsible for the administration of the department. The existing practices by which appointments under s 64 of the Constitution are notified to the Parliament and the public are deficient. I propose various mechanisms by which those practices could be improved at the end of this opinion.

—-

getting through it

“The requirement that members of the Federal Executive Council be “sworn” is the only legal requirement that members of the Executive Government make an oath or affirmation in addition to their oath or affirmation as members of Parliament.”

Is anyone else having trouble parsing that sentence?

dv said:

buffy said:

dv said:

Here’s the Solicitor General’s letter
https://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/sg-no-12-of-2022.pdf

I haven’t read that through yet. But it seems the advice is only about one of the ministries, the one where he did intervene (that we know about).

The Governor-General, acting on the advice of the Prime Minister, has power under s 64 of the Constitution to appoint an existing Minister of State, including the Prime Minister, to administer an additional department of State.
The Governor-General has no discretion to refuse to accept the Prime Minister’s advice in relation to such an appointment. Nor is there any constitutional or legislative requirement for notification of such an appointment as a condition of its validity, or for the Minister to subscribe another oath or affirmation following such an appointment. Accordingly, Mr Morrison was validly appointed to administer DISER on 15 April 2021.

That said, the fact that the Parliament, the public and the other Ministers who thereafter administered DISER concurrently with Mr Morrison were not informed of Mr Morrison’s appointment was inconsistent with the conventions and practices that form an essential part of the system of responsible government prescribed by Ch II of the Constitution. That is because it is impossible for Parliament and the public to hold Ministers accountable for the proper administration of particular departments if the identity of the Ministers who have been appointed to administer those departments is not publicised. That conclusion does not depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was responsible for the administration of the department. The existing practices by which appointments under s 64 of the Constitution are notified to the Parliament and the public are deficient. I propose various mechanisms by which those practices could be improved at the end of this opinion.

—-

getting through it

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

I haven’t read that through yet. But it seems the advice is only about one of the ministries, the one where he did intervene (that we know about).

The Governor-General, acting on the advice of the Prime Minister, has power under s 64 of the Constitution to appoint an existing Minister of State, including the Prime Minister, to administer an additional department of State.
The Governor-General has no discretion to refuse to accept the Prime Minister’s advice in relation to such an appointment. Nor is there any constitutional or legislative requirement for notification of such an appointment as a condition of its validity, or for the Minister to subscribe another oath or affirmation following such an appointment. Accordingly, Mr Morrison was validly appointed to administer DISER on 15 April 2021.

That said, the fact that the Parliament, the public and the other Ministers who thereafter administered DISER concurrently with Mr Morrison were not informed of Mr Morrison’s appointment was inconsistent with the conventions and practices that form an essential part of the system of responsible government prescribed by Ch II of the Constitution. That is because it is impossible for Parliament and the public to hold Ministers accountable for the proper administration of particular departments if the identity of the Ministers who have been appointed to administer those departments is not publicised. That conclusion does not depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was responsible for the administration of the department. The existing practices by which appointments under s 64 of the Constitution are notified to the Parliament and the public are deficient. I propose various mechanisms by which those practices could be improved at the end of this opinion.

—-

getting through it

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

The further I go into it the more I realise that this needs to be patched.

There is no reason why the Governor-General must exercise the powers under ss 64 and 65 concurrently. In particular, the Governor-General can appoint a person who is already a Minister to administer an additional department, without it being necessary to direct that person to hold a different or additional “office”. In such a case, the Governor-General would be exercising the power to appoint a person to administer a department (pursuant to s 64), but not the power to direct the person to hold an office (pursuant to s 65). That is in fact what occurred when Mr Morrison was appointed to administer the Department of Health on 14 March 2020 and the Department of Finance on 30 March 2020 (as neither of those instruments of appointment made any reference to s 65).

wow

There was a lot of talk that Porter wasn’t experienced enough in the law to be Attorney General but I’ve got to hand it to him. He navigated this one like Magellan.

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

I haven’t read that through yet. But it seems the advice is only about one of the ministries, the one where he did intervene (that we know about).

The Governor-General, acting on the advice of the Prime Minister, has power under s 64 of the Constitution to appoint an existing Minister of State, including the Prime Minister, to administer an additional department of State.
The Governor-General has no discretion to refuse to accept the Prime Minister’s advice in relation to such an appointment. Nor is there any constitutional or legislative requirement for notification of such an appointment as a condition of its validity, or for the Minister to subscribe another oath or affirmation following such an appointment. Accordingly, Mr Morrison was validly appointed to administer DISER on 15 April 2021.

That said, the fact that the Parliament, the public and the other Ministers who thereafter administered DISER concurrently with Mr Morrison were not informed of Mr Morrison’s appointment was inconsistent with the conventions and practices that form an essential part of the system of responsible government prescribed by Ch II of the Constitution. That is because it is impossible for Parliament and the public to hold Ministers accountable for the proper administration of particular departments if the identity of the Ministers who have been appointed to administer those departments is not publicised. That conclusion does not depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was responsible for the administration of the department. The existing practices by which appointments under s 64 of the Constitution are notified to the Parliament and the public are deficient. I propose various mechanisms by which those practices could be improved at the end of this opinion.

—-

getting through it

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

dv said:

buffy said:

dv said:

The Governor-General, acting on the advice of the Prime Minister, has power under s 64 of the Constitution to appoint an existing Minister of State, including the Prime Minister, to administer an additional department of State.
The Governor-General has no discretion to refuse to accept the Prime Minister’s advice in relation to such an appointment. Nor is there any constitutional or legislative requirement for notification of such an appointment as a condition of its validity, or for the Minister to subscribe another oath or affirmation following such an appointment. Accordingly, Mr Morrison was validly appointed to administer DISER on 15 April 2021.

That said, the fact that the Parliament, the public and the other Ministers who thereafter administered DISER concurrently with Mr Morrison were not informed of Mr Morrison’s appointment was inconsistent with the conventions and practices that form an essential part of the system of responsible government prescribed by Ch II of the Constitution. That is because it is impossible for Parliament and the public to hold Ministers accountable for the proper administration of particular departments if the identity of the Ministers who have been appointed to administer those departments is not publicised. That conclusion does not depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was responsible for the administration of the department. The existing practices by which appointments under s 64 of the Constitution are notified to the Parliament and the public are deficient. I propose various mechanisms by which those practices could be improved at the end of this opinion.

—-

getting through it

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

I thought you might like that one. The ABC journalists don’t seem to have commented on that yet.

buffy said:

dv said:

buffy said:

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

I thought you might like that one. The ABC journalists don’t seem to have commented on that yet.

And now they have commented.

buffy said:

buffy said:

dv said:

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

I thought you might like that one. The ABC journalists don’t seem to have commented on that yet.

And now they have commented.

I mean … is it one hundred percent certain that these shenannigans only began in 2020? Maybe his memory will be jogged further.

Here’s how the Solicitor General winds up, before getting in to the possible solutions section.

The end result is that, to the extent that the public and the Parliament are not informed of appointments that have been made under s 64 of the Constitution, the principles of responsible government are fundamentally undermined. Neither the people nor the Parliament can hold a Minister accountable for the exercise (or, just as importantly, for the non-exercise) of particular statutory powers if they are not aware that the Minister has those powers. Nor can they hold the correct Ministers accountable for any other actions, or inactions, of departments. The undermining of responsible government therefore does not
depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was both legally and politically responsible for the administration of that department, and yet he could not be held accountable for the way that he performed (or did not perform) that role.

Separately from the problem of holding Ministers to account, if multiple Ministers have been appointed to administer a single department, those Ministers (or the Prime Minister) are responsible for working out the division of responsibilities between themselves. However, if one Minister does not know that another Minister has been appointed to administer their department, that obviously cannot occur.

Finally, an appointment under s 64 of the Constitution is an appointment to “administer” a department. Plainly, however, a department cannot, in practice, be administered by a person whose appointment has not been revealed to the department itself. Failure to inform at least the Secretary of the department of the appointment therefore defeats the purpose of the appointment. It also prevents the department from taking appropriate steps to support and advise that Minister if the Minister decides to exercise powers under any legislation that is administered by that department (unless the appointment is disclosed at that time, as appears to have occurred with respect to Mr Morrison’s appointment to administer DISER). An unpublicised appointment to administer a department therefore fundamentally undermines not just the proper functioning of responsible government, but also the relationship between the Ministry and the public service.

I keep seeing stories pop up on politicised sites concerning a leaked Commonwealth Ombudsman advise that hundreds of Morrison appointments have to be reviewed.

I haven’t seen it on any proper news sites yet so it might not be legit.

dv said:

buffy said:

dv said:

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

The further I go into it the more I realise that this needs to be patched.

There is no reason why the Governor-General must exercise the powers under ss 64 and 65 concurrently. In particular, the Governor-General can appoint a person who is already a Minister to administer an additional department, without it being necessary to direct that person to hold a different or additional “office”. In such a case, the Governor-General would be exercising the power to appoint a person to administer a department (pursuant to s 64), but not the power to direct the person to hold an office (pursuant to s 65). That is in fact what occurred when Mr Morrison was appointed to administer the Department of Health on 14 March 2020 and the Department of Finance on 30 March 2020 (as neither of those instruments of appointment made any reference to s 65).

wow

I agree that it needs to be patched.

dv said:

buffy said:

dv said:

The Governor-General, acting on the advice of the Prime Minister, has power under s 64 of the Constitution to appoint an existing Minister of State, including the Prime Minister, to administer an additional department of State.
The Governor-General has no discretion to refuse to accept the Prime Minister’s advice in relation to such an appointment. Nor is there any constitutional or legislative requirement for notification of such an appointment as a condition of its validity, or for the Minister to subscribe another oath or affirmation following such an appointment. Accordingly, Mr Morrison was validly appointed to administer DISER on 15 April 2021.

That said, the fact that the Parliament, the public and the other Ministers who thereafter administered DISER concurrently with Mr Morrison were not informed of Mr Morrison’s appointment was inconsistent with the conventions and practices that form an essential part of the system of responsible government prescribed by Ch II of the Constitution. That is because it is impossible for Parliament and the public to hold Ministers accountable for the proper administration of particular departments if the identity of the Ministers who have been appointed to administer those departments is not publicised. That conclusion does not depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was responsible for the administration of the department. The existing practices by which appointments under s 64 of the Constitution are notified to the Parliament and the public are deficient. I propose various mechanisms by which those practices could be improved at the end of this opinion.

—-

getting through it

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

I have no clue as to the motivation.

Michael V said:

dv said:

buffy said:

Have a look at paragraph 42. This may go back further than anticipated.

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

I have no clue as to the motivation.

God moves in a mysterious way,
His wonders to perform;
He plants his footsteps in the sea,
And rides upon the storm.

Deep in unfathomable mines
Of never failing skill;
He treasures up his bright designs,
And works His sovereign will.

Ye fearful saints fresh courage take,
The clouds ye so much dread
Are big with mercy, and shall break
In blessings on your head.

Judge not the Lord by feeble sense,
But trust him for his grace;
Behind a frowning providence,
He hides a smiling face.

His purposes will ripen fast,
Unfolding ev’ry hour;
The bud may have a bitter taste,
But sweet will be the flow’r.

Blind unbelief is sure to err,
And scan his work in vain;
God is his own interpreter,
And he will make it plain.

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

I have no clue as to the motivation.

God moves in a mysterious way,
His wonders to perform;
He plants his footsteps in the sea,
And rides upon the storm.

Deep in unfathomable mines
Of never failing skill;
He treasures up his bright designs,
And works His sovereign will.

Ye fearful saints fresh courage take,
The clouds ye so much dread
Are big with mercy, and shall break
In blessings on your head.

Judge not the Lord by feeble sense,
But trust him for his grace;
Behind a frowning providence,
He hides a smiling face.

His purposes will ripen fast,
Unfolding ev’ry hour;
The bud may have a bitter taste,
But sweet will be the flow’r.

Blind unbelief is sure to err,
And scan his work in vain;
God is his own interpreter,
And he will make it plain.

although to be fair, being a Plandemic, obviously they knew about and prepared for it well in advance

dv said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So anyway, what did Scomoman actually do with the super-powers he granted himself?

Here’s how the Solicitor General winds up, before getting in to the possible solutions section.

The end result is that, to the extent that the public and the Parliament are not informed of appointments that have been made under s 64 of the Constitution, the principles of responsible government are fundamentally undermined. Neither the people nor the Parliament can hold a Minister accountable for the exercise (or, just as importantly, for the non-exercise) of particular statutory powers if they are not aware that the Minister has those powers. Nor can they hold the correct Ministers accountable for any other actions, or inactions, of departments. The undermining of responsible government therefore does not
depend on the extent to which Mr Morrison exercised powers under legislation administered by DISER, because from the moment of his appointment he was both legally and politically responsible for the administration of that department, and yet he could not be held accountable for the way that he performed (or did not perform) that role.

Separately from the problem of holding Ministers to account, if multiple Ministers have been appointed to administer a single department, those Ministers (or the Prime Minister) are responsible for working out the division of responsibilities between themselves. However, if one Minister does not know that another Minister has been appointed to administer their department, that obviously cannot occur.

Finally, an appointment under s 64 of the Constitution is an appointment to “administer” a department. Plainly, however, a department cannot, in practice, be administered by a person whose appointment has not been revealed to the department itself. Failure to inform at least the Secretary of the department of the appointment therefore defeats the purpose of the appointment. It also prevents the department from taking appropriate steps to support and advise that Minister if the Minister decides to exercise powers under any legislation that is administered by that department (unless the appointment is disclosed at that time, as appears to have occurred with respect to Mr Morrison’s appointment to administer DISER). An unpublicised appointment to administer a department therefore fundamentally undermines not just the proper functioning of responsible government, but also the relationship between the Ministry and the public service.

Jesus … so basically from as soon as Morrison became PM in 2018, gazettal changes were made to hide cases where people were directed to administer departments (without being named Minister).

What motivated that change? It obv wasn’t the pandemic.

Your ABC has this suggestion¡

Richard Marles says he understands why former Australia Post boss Christine Holgate feels uneasy about Scott Morrison’s secret powers. Ms Holgate was subject to an investigation lead by the department of finance over the Cartier watches saga. She says she was concerned to discover Mr Morrison had been secretly sworn in to oversee the department which was investigating her conduct.

so we have another one

¿ remember how that other fascist hero POTUS45 needed to lock up classified material at a resort so that he could declassify them and keep them safe ?

Marketing couldn’t possibly use secretsuperpowers to gain access to secret information that could be leaked to any foreign or corporate interests while maintaining the appearance of doing nothing with the secretsuperpowers he granted himself¡

South-Western Sydney Primary School Commences Intervention To Prevent Local Students From Ever Becoming Modern Leaders

https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/primary-school-offering-treatment-hope-for-children-with-callous-unemotional-traits-20220812-p5b9cl.html

It’s the first clinic of its kind: purpose-built on primary school grounds to deliver a new therapy for children who display “callous-unemotional traits”, a set of characteristics that can be an early warning sign for psychopathy.

SCIENCE said:

South-Western Sydney Primary School Commences Intervention To Prevent Local Students From Ever Becoming Modern Leaders

https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/primary-school-offering-treatment-hope-for-children-with-callous-unemotional-traits-20220812-p5b9cl.html

It’s the first clinic of its kind: purpose-built on primary school grounds to deliver a new therapy for children who display “callous-unemotional traits”, a set of characteristics that can be an early warning sign for psychopathy.

Redirect them to CEO positions

SCIENCE said:

South-Western Sydney Primary School Commences Intervention To Prevent Local Students From Ever Becoming Modern Leaders

https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/primary-school-offering-treatment-hope-for-children-with-callous-unemotional-traits-20220812-p5b9cl.html

It’s the first clinic of its kind: purpose-built on primary school grounds to deliver a new therapy for children who display “callous-unemotional traits”, a set of characteristics that can be an early warning sign for psychopathy.

Obvious LNP recruitment drive

Richard Marles has torn up a Coalition-era ban on defence staff holding morning tea celebrations around some diversity and cultural events, with defence force chiefs saying they want to foster a “a diverse and inclusive workforce”.

Dutton told the Nine newspapers that defence should not be “pursuing a woke agenda” and that “our task is to build up the morale in the Australian Defence Force and these woke agendas don’t help”.

On Tuesday, the defence secretary Greg Moriarty and the chief of defence Gen Angus Campbell issued another directive to defence staff, saying that Marles, the deputy prime minister and defence minister have “instructed that this direction be lifted, with effect 23 August 2022”.

The department update was first reported by the Canberra Times.

The officials said such events “contribute to our inclusive culture by acknowledging and promoting awareness of our diverse workforce.”

The note specifically mentioned “team activities in support of not-for-profit organisations, charity events, and upcoming days such as Wear it Purple and R U OK Day”.

dv said:

Richard Marles has torn up a Coalition-era ban on defence staff holding morning tea celebrations around some diversity and cultural events, with defence force chiefs saying they want to foster a “a diverse and inclusive workforce”.

Dutton told the Nine newspapers that defence should not be “pursuing a woke agenda” and that “our task is to build up the morale in the Australian Defence Force and these woke agendas don’t help”.

On Tuesday, the defence secretary Greg Moriarty and the chief of defence Gen Angus Campbell issued another directive to defence staff, saying that Marles, the deputy prime minister and defence minister have “instructed that this direction be lifted, with effect 23 August 2022”.

The department update was first reported by the Canberra Times.

The officials said such events “contribute to our inclusive culture by acknowledging and promoting awareness of our diverse workforce.”

The note specifically mentioned “team activities in support of not-for-profit organisations, charity events, and upcoming days such as Wear it Purple and R U OK Day”.

It’s a strange concept were comradeship and being part of a team only includes a very narrow group of people.
Armed forces for example better be a white male who doesn’t question

Cymek said:

dv said:

Richard Marles has torn up a Coalition-era ban on defence staff holding morning tea celebrations around some diversity and cultural events, with defence force chiefs saying they want to foster a “a diverse and inclusive workforce”.

Dutton told the Nine newspapers that defence should not be “pursuing a woke agenda” and that “our task is to build up the morale in the Australian Defence Force and these woke agendas don’t help”.

On Tuesday, the defence secretary Greg Moriarty and the chief of defence Gen Angus Campbell issued another directive to defence staff, saying that Marles, the deputy prime minister and defence minister have “instructed that this direction be lifted, with effect 23 August 2022”.

The department update was first reported by the Canberra Times.

The officials said such events “contribute to our inclusive culture by acknowledging and promoting awareness of our diverse workforce.”

The note specifically mentioned “team activities in support of not-for-profit organisations, charity events, and upcoming days such as Wear it Purple and R U OK Day”.

It’s a strange concept were comradeship and being part of a team only includes a very narrow group of people.
Armed forces for example better be a white male who doesn’t question

What?

dv said:

Richard Marles has torn up a Coalition-era ban on defence staff holding morning tea celebrations around some diversity and cultural events, with defence force chiefs saying they want to foster a “a diverse and inclusive workforce”.

Dutton told the Nine newspapers that defence should not be “pursuing a woke agenda” and that “our task is to build up the morale in the Australian Defence Force and these woke agendas don’t help”.

On Tuesday, the defence secretary Greg Moriarty and the chief of defence Gen Angus Campbell issued another directive to defence staff, saying that Marles, the deputy prime minister and defence minister have “instructed that this direction be lifted, with effect 23 August 2022”.

The department update was first reported by the Canberra Times.

The officials said such events “contribute to our inclusive culture by acknowledging and promoting awareness of our diverse workforce.”

The note specifically mentioned “team activities in support of not-for-profit organisations, charity events, and upcoming days such as Wear it Purple and R U OK Day”.

Good. Very good.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

To our knowledge there was only one instance where he used it, which was to override Pitt on a gas project.

And the Greens are still outraged.

IKR when you think of it he’s really a hero

hell this Marketing dude is practically Jesus when you think about it

Shadow Attorney-General Julian Leeser said the opposition acknowledged the advice. “The solicitor-general confirmed that the appointments were validly made but proposed various mechanisms by which practices could in future be improved,” he said. “The opposition will work with the Government on any reasonable proposals to provide clarity to processes and improve transparency in ministerial appointments.”

we mean we’ve seen 20 years of partisan poison and nobody with the guts or the frontal gyri to do anything about it and then

BOOM

like magic this godlike genius comes out of nowhere to snatch defeat from the hands of Dutton and bring the parties together like never before

it’s a fucking miracle

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And the Greens are still outraged.

IKR when you think of it he’s really a hero

hell this Marketing dude is practically Jesus when you think about it

Shadow Attorney-General Julian Leeser said the opposition acknowledged the advice. “The solicitor-general confirmed that the appointments were validly made but proposed various mechanisms by which practices could in future be improved,” he said. “The opposition will work with the Government on any reasonable proposals to provide clarity to processes and improve transparency in ministerial appointments.”

we mean we’ve seen 20 years of partisan poison and nobody with the guts or the frontal gyri to do anything about it and then

BOOM

like magic this godlike genius comes out of nowhere to snatch defeat from the hands of Dutton and bring the parties together like never before

it’s a fucking miracle

Everyone wants a selfie with Mr 17%

¡ good to see that under Dirty Labor the minimum wage has risen by less relative to the price index than with any previous rise under Corruption, this is true workers’ party brilliance !

Malcolm Turnbull wants to know why there was no apparent questioning of Scott Morrison’s plans

buffy said:

Malcolm Turnbull wants to know why there was no apparent questioning of Scott Morrison’s plans

Should change his name to Trump.

¿ does increased inflation mean greater profits

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-24/coles-food-inflation/101366718

SCIENCE said:

¿ does increased inflation mean greater profits

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-24/coles-food-inflation/101366718

Lettuces were at about the $3 mark in Woollies this morning. Caulis have been plentiful of recent weeks and not overly expensive. Broccoli has been a bit more expensive. My plants in the garden are a couple of months off harvest yet.

SCIENCE said:

¿ does increased inflation mean greater profits

High profits can drive inflation

dv said:

buffy said:

SCIENCE said:

¿ does increased inflation mean greater profits

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-24/coles-food-inflation/101366718

Lettuces were at about the $3 mark in Woollies this morning. Caulis have been plentiful of recent weeks and not overly expensive. Broccoli has been a bit more expensive. My plants in the garden are a couple of months off harvest yet.

High profits can drive inflation

so all this dodgy talk from Coles and Woles and all is just them covering up and shifting the blame

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

buffy said:

Lettuces were at about the $3 mark in Woollies this morning. Caulis have been plentiful of recent weeks and not overly expensive. Broccoli has been a bit more expensive. My plants in the garden are a couple of months off harvest yet.

High profits can drive inflation

so all this dodgy talk from Coles and Woles and all is just them covering up and shifting the blame

I have not heard what Coles and Woles have said

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

High profits can drive inflation

so all this dodgy talk from Coles and Woles and all is just them covering up and shifting the blame

I have not heard what Coles and Woles have said

sorry we should have quoted article

Supermarket giant Coles has said the higher cost of living is starting to bite for some customers. During its full-year results presentation, chief executive Steven Cain said some shoppers are starting to buy fewer or cheaper products. “Maybe up to 20 per cent of consumers … are obviously finding it tough,” he said.

Coles reported a full-year net profit after tax of $1.05 billion, up 4.3 per cent on the previous year. Revenue was up 2 per cent, to $39.7 billion.

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

so all this dodgy talk from Coles and Woles and all is just them covering up and shifting the blame

I have not heard what Coles and Woles have said

sorry we should have quoted article

Supermarket giant Coles has said the higher cost of living is starting to bite for some customers. During its full-year results presentation, chief executive Steven Cain said some shoppers are starting to buy fewer or cheaper products. “Maybe up to 20 per cent of consumers … are obviously finding it tough,” he said.

Coles reported a full-year net profit after tax of $1.05 billion, up 4.3 per cent on the previous year. Revenue was up 2 per cent, to $39.7 billion.

What Coles has said there doesn’t in anyway contradict what I said

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

I have not heard what Coles and Woles have said

sorry we should have quoted article

Supermarket giant Coles has said the higher cost of living is starting to bite for some customers. During its full-year results presentation, chief executive Steven Cain said some shoppers are starting to buy fewer or cheaper products. “Maybe up to 20 per cent of consumers … are obviously finding it tough,” he said.

Coles reported a full-year net profit after tax of $1.05 billion, up 4.3 per cent on the previous year. Revenue was up 2 per cent, to $39.7 billion.

What Coles has said there doesn’t in anyway contradict what I said

true, we suppose we were just a bit put off by their “we’ve noticed customers going cheap which really does indicate inflation” when they’re the supermarkets, they set the price of what those customers are paying, if the prices are up surely that’s inflation

BREAKING: The Labor government has just released 46,758 square kilometres of new ocean acreages for oil and gas exploration.

Labor likes to talk big on climate, but when it really matters they’ll do exactly what their fossil fuel donors demand.

SCIENCE said:

BREAKING: The Labor government has just released 46,758 square kilometres of new ocean acreages for oil and gas exploration.

Labor likes to talk big on climate, but when it really matters they’ll do exactly what their fossil fuel donors demand.

Fossil fuel is the new renewable.

Scott Morrison’s secret ministries: What we learned from the solicitor-general’s advice

We have a secret ministry for that.

It’s secret.

I cant tell you anything more than that.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Scott Morrison’s secret ministries: What we learned from the solicitor-general’s advice

We have a secret ministry for that.

It’s secret.

I cant tell you anything more than that.

As Sir Humphrey put it “He who hath a secret must keep it secret that he hath a secret to keep.”

Tassie Nannas
12 August at 09:09 ·
The Tassie Nannas have been recognised for our work over the past eight years advocating for fairer treatment of refugees and asylum seekers. Thank you Lord Mayor Anna Reynolds.
When we began we wondered what was the best way to go about bringing change and raising awareness. How could we be seen and heard? Should we chain ourselves to the fences on Manus Island? Instead, we decided to knit – publicly every week in downtown Hobart. So here we are (with supporters) millions of stitches later.

—
they have been raising money to help refugees relocate in Canada.

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

dv said:

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

I may well be wrong, but I suspect that if all the declarations were placed in order of honesty, Katters would be well towards the honest end.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

I may well be wrong, but I suspect that if all the declarations were placed in order of honesty, Katters would be well towards the honest end.

It’s a bit vague though…

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

I may well be wrong, but I suspect that if all the declarations were placed in order of honesty, Katters would be well towards the honest end.

If Diogenes went through parliament he might stop at Bob Katter.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

I may well be wrong, but I suspect that if all the declarations were placed in order of honesty, Katters would be well towards the honest end.

It’s a bit vague though…

I’ll give you that:)

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

I may well be wrong, but I suspect that if all the declarations were placed in order of honesty, Katters would be well towards the honest end.

It’s a bit vague though…

I’ll give you that:)

Could have done with Diogenes a while ago.
I was totally in the dark when the battery bank ran out of stored sunshine. Faffling around in the dark trying to find a torch to get the genie going I could have done myself a mischief.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

I may well be wrong, but I suspect that if all the declarations were placed in order of honesty, Katters would be well towards the honest end.

If Diogenes went through parliament he might stop at Bob Katter.

ha

dv said:

This isn’t satire. This is Bob Katter’s declaration of interests.

Speaking from experience, I would assume that his AMP shares have lost him a LOT of money.

I personally want to see the AMP execs hung by their toes over a piranha filled moat and slowly lowered in until they repay me what they owe me. “Blue Chip Stocks”, my arse.

Peak Warming Man said:

Could have done with Diogenes a while ago.
I was totally in the dark when the battery bank ran out of stored sunshine. Faffling around in the dark trying to find a torch to get the genie going I could have done myself a mischief.

I have a couple.

The Solomon Islands government seemingly confirms it will block some foreign journalists from entering the country, declaring that reporters who are “demeaning” or engage in “racial profiling” by attacking its ties with China will be banned.
Link

roughbarked said:

The Solomon Islands government seemingly confirms it will block some foreign journalists from entering the country, declaring that reporters who are “demeaning” or engage in “racial profiling” by attacking its ties with China will be banned.
Link

China own S.I. now! S.I. ‘traditionally’ Chinese islands! You do as we say!

Bogsnorkler said:

I suggest that ‘the Australian people think’ that Albanese’s government is not perfect, could do better, has more to do, but has already done a s***load better job than the sum total of the L/NP’s efforts during its terms.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-25/albanese-to-announce-details-of-robodebt-royal-commission/101369576

Link

captain_spalding said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I suggest that ‘the Australian people think’ that Albanese’s government is not perfect, could do better, has more to do, but has already done a s***load better job than the sum total of the L/NP’s efforts during its terms.

Well, that’s what I think, anyway.

The attorney general, Mark Dreyfus, answers the question of whether the government anticipates this royal commission could recommend further compensation for the victims of robodebt.

There are broad terms of reference for this royal commission, as the prime minister has just said – we’re not going to preempt what the outcome will be.

The commission will have full power to inquire, full power to require the production of documents, full power to require witnesses to appear before it, and make whatever recommendations the commission thinks are appropriate. Both as to any actions arising from what has already occurred and, most importantly, how we can make sure, as a nation, that this never happens again.

dv said:

The attorney general, Mark Dreyfus, answers the question of whether the government anticipates this royal commission could recommend further compensation for the victims of robodebt.

There are broad terms of reference for this royal commission, as the prime minister has just said – we’re not going to preempt what the outcome will be.

The commission will have full power to inquire, full power to require the production of documents, full power to require witnesses to appear before it, and make whatever recommendations the commission thinks are appropriate. Both as to any actions arising from what has already occurred and, most importantly, how we can make sure, as a nation, that this never happens again.

Mark “I’ve never quite recovered from the strange disappearance of my brother Richard, last seen at Devils Mountain”

dv said:

Has all that increased productivity been going into company profits, or is it disappearing somewhere else?

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Has all that increased productivity been going into company profits, or is it disappearing somewhere else?

don’t know but looks like it happened under Corruption for very modest labour costs so they really must be the best economic managers

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Has all that increased productivity been going into company profits, or is it disappearing somewhere else?

don’t know but looks like it happened under Corruption for very modest labour costs so they really must be the best economic managers

Apart from little blips around 2008 and 2019, both lines look pretty linear until recently to me.

But now Labor are in, wages have plummeted, and productivity is soaring, so they must be the real best economic managers.

Mustn’t they?

But now Labor are in, wages have plummeted, and productivity is soaring, so they must be the real best economic managers.

Given that there have been only a few weeks since the legislature opened under Labor, I think we can’t say yet whether wages have plummeted under Labor. Indeed there is no data on that graph pertaining to the new Labor era.

dv said:

But now Labor are in, wages have plummeted, and productivity is soaring, so they must be the real best economic managers.

Given that there have been only a few weeks since the legislature opened under Labor, I think we can’t say yet whether wages have plummeted under Labor. Indeed there is no data on that graph pertaining to the new Labor era.

I hope you know I was making a little joke.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

But now Labor are in, wages have plummeted, and productivity is soaring, so they must be the real best economic managers.

Given that there have been only a few weeks since the legislature opened under Labor, I think we can’t say yet whether wages have plummeted under Labor. Indeed there is no data on that graph pertaining to the new Labor era.

I hope you know I was making a little joke.

It’s hard to tell with you.

dv said:

But now Labor are in, wages have plummeted, and productivity is soaring, so they must be the real best economic managers.

Given that there have been only a few weeks since the legislature opened under Labor, I think we can’t say yet whether wages have plummeted under Labor. Indeed there is no data on that graph pertaining to the new Labor era.

Facts! Who wants facts?!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-26/scott-morrison-secret-ministry-inquiry-detailed/101377170

SCIENCE said:

Oh, that’s a ‘peasant hunt’. It’s always ‘peasant season’. Have to keep them harassed and fretful, or they might start thinking about politics.

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2022/08/27/scott-morrison-the-naked-emperor

Link

told yous all

The contrast with the reaction to our own PM living his best life couldn’t be starker. Our older, male Prime Minister skolling a beer at a Gang of Youths gig in Sydney was met with praise.

Anthony Albanese was this week spotted at the Enmore Theatre wearing a Joy Division T-shirt and his demolition of that beer prompted cheers from the audience. That video also went viral. But this time the viral video was largely good for him and his image.

There was no moral outrage, no panic. Blokes drinking beer we are all good with as a community, women who drink alcohol and party? Not so much. It’s the double standard that’s so galling.

“Detractors need to stop being a braying pack of utter losers when it comes to a young, dancing lady PM. My only question for her is where does she find the energy to stay up past 9 pm and dance it out,” Wells told me. She added: “If you think parliament should comprise people from all walks and stages of life, think about what message we are sending all the young, vibrant future policy makers with this debate.”

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/ex-minister-who-ousted-scott-morrison-from-tourism-australia-says-he-must-leave-parliament-20220826-p5bcyo.html

Link

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/ex-minister-who-ousted-scott-morrison-from-tourism-australia-says-he-must-leave-parliament-20220826-p5bcyo.html

Link

He must go!

there you see the effectiveness of industrial action often arises from losing the workers who are looking after the domestic activities

Yet there is another part of the story that has been blotted out by time – the account of the women who were also paid rations to cook and clean, and made up a significant portion of the strikers.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/ex-minister-who-ousted-scott-morrison-from-tourism-australia-says-he-must-leave-parliament-20220826-p5bcyo.html

Link

He must go!

To Hawaii, most likely.

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/ex-minister-who-ousted-scott-morrison-from-tourism-australia-says-he-must-leave-parliament-20220826-p5bcyo.html

Link

He must go!

To Hawaii, most likely.

Followed by a highly paid job as CEO of some travel company, no doubt.

(They say QANTAS may be looking for a new boss)

The Rev Dodgson said:

Followed by a highly paid job as CEO of some travel company, no doubt.

(They say QANTAS may be looking for a new boss)

Oh, gosh, let me know when tickets go on sale for that show! I’d want to get a good seat so as to fully enjoy the tragic-comic farce.

Un-friggen-believable!
I really hoped that the ALP would be much better than the LNP, but it seems not to be in some cases.
Note that I haven’t fact-checked this sorry.

Spiny Norman said:

Un-friggen-believable!
I really hoped that the ALP would be much better than the LNP, but it seems not to be in some cases.
Note that I haven’t fact-checked this sorry.

Well a quick binge on
“sacred sites will be relocated” plibersek

only returns links to that very tweet.

Maybe that other search engine might do better.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

Un-friggen-believable!
I really hoped that the ALP would be much better than the LNP, but it seems not to be in some cases.
Note that I haven’t fact-checked this sorry.

Well a quick binge on
“sacred sites will be relocated” plibersek

only returns links to that very tweet.

Maybe that other search engine might do better.

SMH 23 Aug: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/plibersek-backs-4-5-billion-wa-gas-plant-despite-sacred-sites-impact-20220823-p5bbxs.html

ABC News 26 Aug: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-26/aboriginal-custodians-concerns-in-letter-to-government/101370394

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

Un-friggen-believable!
I really hoped that the ALP would be much better than the LNP, but it seems not to be in some cases.
Note that I haven’t fact-checked this sorry.

Well a quick binge on
“sacred sites will be relocated” plibersek

only returns links to that very tweet.

Maybe that other search engine might do better.

SMH 23 Aug: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/plibersek-backs-4-5-billion-wa-gas-plant-despite-sacred-sites-impact-20220823-p5bbxs.html

ABC News 26 Aug: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-26/aboriginal-custodians-concerns-in-letter-to-government/101370394

OK, things do get a little difficult when something is backed by the local indigenous body, but not by other indigenous groups.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Spiny Norman said:

Un-friggen-believable!
I really hoped that the ALP would be much better than the LNP, but it seems not to be in some cases.
Note that I haven’t fact-checked this sorry.

Well a quick binge on
“sacred sites will be relocated” plibersek

only returns links to that very tweet.

Maybe that other search engine might do better.

I do hope it’s fake.

fk CHINA the dirty

• An illegal fishing camp has been discovered on an island off WA’s far-northern coast
• Border Force Australia says it conducts regular patrols of the area, but wouldn’t comment on how the crew entered undetected
• There’s been a significant surge of illegal fishing boats in Australia’s northern waters

SCIENCE said:

fk CHINA the dirty

• An illegal fishing camp has been discovered on an island off WA’s far-northern coast
• Border Force Australia says it conducts regular patrols of the area, but wouldn’t comment on how the crew entered undetected
• There’s been a significant surge of illegal fishing boats in Australia’s northern waters
  

they’ve fished out and stripped everywhere else

locusts

lolwtf https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-29/albanese-stands-firm-stage-3-tax-crossbench-seeks-delay/101381640 what next Greens start calling for bigger highways or something

SCIENCE said:

lolwtf https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-29/albanese-stands-firm-stage-3-tax-crossbench-seeks-delay/101381640 what next Greens start calling for bigger highways or something

There hasn’t been a significant difference between Labor and Liberal for several decades.

> what next Greens start calling for bigger highways or something

We can always pray.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2022/08/30/paul-bongiorno-delivery-albanese-jobs-summit/

Link

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/2022/08/29/albanese-100-days-challenges/

Link

Inquiry into far-right extremism in Victoria makes 12 recommendations to counter spread

The findings of a six-month inquiry into the re-emergence of far-right extremism in Victoria have been released, highlighting issues such as decreasing public trust in mainstream media and government and young people engaging with extremism.

more…

Tau.Neutrino said:

A recent report has shown that more than half of women in Australia have experienced sexual violence.

Listening to a Minister on JJJ Hack discussing the report

the Minister mentioned respect

Nothing about life education, teaching consent, how to deal with jealousy and rejection, teaching teens how to have sex without violence.

Cant be that hard to each them those things.

dude we don’t even have enough teachers to teach children to speak

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A recent report has shown that more than half of women in Australia have experienced sexual violence.

Listening to a Minister on JJJ Hack discussing the report

the Minister mentioned respect

Nothing about life education, teaching consent, how to deal with jealousy and rejection, teaching teens how to have sex without violence.

Cant be that hard to each them those things.

dude we don’t even have enough teachers to teach children to speak

I think Education has to change

more things have to be taught

we also need more teachers, K-12.

who are paid properly, K-12.

Primary schools need more teacher/psychologists, K-12.

Primary school need more Information Technology, computer programming teachers, K-12.

and so on.

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A recent report has shown that more than half of women in Australia have experienced sexual violence.

Listening to a Minister on JJJ Hack discussing the report

the Minister mentioned respect

Nothing about life education, teaching consent, how to deal with jealousy and rejection, teaching teens how to have sex without violence.

Cant be that hard to each them those things.

dude we don’t even have enough teachers to teach children to speak

I think Education has to change

more things have to be taught

we also need more teachers, K-12.

who are paid properly, K-12.

Primary schools need more teacher/psychologists, K-12.

Primary school need more Information Technology, computer programming teachers, K-12.

and so on.

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

dude we don’t even have enough teachers to teach children to speak

I think Education has to change

more things have to be taught

we also need more teachers, K-12.

who are paid properly, K-12.

Primary schools need more teacher/psychologists, K-12.

Primary school need more Information Technology, computer programming teachers, K-12.

and so on.

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

Health and education are places we should not scrimp.

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think Education has to change

more things have to be taught

we also need more teachers, K-12.

who are paid properly, K-12.

Primary schools need more teacher/psychologists, K-12.

Primary school need more Information Technology, computer programming teachers, K-12.

and so on.

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

Health and education are places we should not scrimp.

right but the payback period for each is like 40 years which is 10 times longer than the electoral cycle

we don’t feel optimistic

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think Education has to change

more things have to be taught

we also need more teachers, K-12.

who are paid properly, K-12.

Primary schools need more teacher/psychologists, K-12.

Primary school need more Information Technology, computer programming teachers, K-12.

and so on.

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

Health and education are places we should not scrimp.

it does seem that teachers and nurses both…do not conform to that idea that scarcity means it is worth more. if i was a nurse i could imagine myself saying that I am not being paid enough for this crap. i reckon some teachers have the same lot.

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

dude we don’t even have enough teachers to teach children to speak

I think Education has to change

more things have to be taught

we also need more teachers, K-12.

who are paid properly, K-12.

Primary schools need more teacher/psychologists, K-12.

Primary school need more Information Technology, computer programming teachers, K-12.

and so on.

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

Taxes in proportion to wages maybe.

Create a fairer system.

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I think Education has to change

more things have to be taught

we also need more teachers, K-12.

who are paid properly, K-12.

Primary schools need more teacher/psychologists, K-12.

Primary school need more Information Technology, computer programming teachers, K-12.

and so on.

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

Taxes in proportion to wages maybe.

Create a fairer system.

Tax the mining sector for it as well.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

Taxes in proportion to wages maybe.

Create a fairer system.

Tax the mining sector for it as well.

Cap CEO wages too.

i quite like the idea of this minimum tax that has to be paid thing. That you can’t write it all off.

sarahs mum said:

i quite like the idea of this minimum tax that has to be paid thing. That you can’t write it all off.

it would also be good if you couldn’t ship it all offshore.

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

i quite like the idea of this minimum tax that has to be paid thing. That you can’t write it all off.

it would also be good if you couldn’t ship it all offshore.

Definitely put a stop that.

Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

i quite like the idea of this minimum tax that has to be paid thing. That you can’t write it all off.

it would also be good if you couldn’t ship it all offshore.

Definitely put a stop that.

Definitely put a stop to that.

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

i quite like the idea of this minimum tax that has to be paid thing. That you can’t write it all off.

it would also be good if you couldn’t ship it all offshore.

Yeah, tax havens around the world should be declared as tax havens. All money transfers bout inwards and outwards should have some special tax applied. Let’s say 10%. Transfer funds to the Cayman Islands you pay 10% tax, transfer it back and pay another 10%. Sure, you pay no tax on your money while it is there but shifting it will cost you. We need enough countries to agree on a common taxation scheme with regards to these tax havens.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

i quite like the idea of this minimum tax that has to be paid thing. That you can’t write it all off.

it would also be good if you couldn’t ship it all offshore.

Yeah, tax havens around the world should be declared as tax havens. All money transfers bout inwards and outwards should have some special tax applied. Let’s say 10%. Transfer funds to the Cayman Islands you pay 10% tax, transfer it back and pay another 10%. Sure, you pay no tax on your money while it is there but shifting it will cost you. We need enough countries to agree on a common taxation scheme with regards to these tax havens.

both

party_pants said:

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

it would also be good if you couldn’t ship it all offshore.

Yeah, tax havens around the world should be declared as tax havens. All money transfers bout inwards and outwards should have some special tax applied. Let’s say 10%. Transfer funds to the Cayman Islands you pay 10% tax, transfer it back and pay another 10%. Sure, you pay no tax on your money while it is there but shifting it will cost you. We need enough countries to agree on a common taxation scheme with regards to these tax havens.

both

Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

party_pants said:

Yeah, tax havens around the world should be declared as tax havens. All money transfers bout inwards and outwards should have some special tax applied. Let’s say 10%. Transfer funds to the Cayman Islands you pay 10% tax, transfer it back and pay another 10%. Sure, you pay no tax on your money while it is there but shifting it will cost you. We need enough countries to agree on a common taxation scheme with regards to these tax havens.

both

Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.

that puts a lot of accountants out of work.

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

where’s the money to pay them coming from, we’re cutting taxes and people are getting poor now

Health and education are places we should not scrimp.

it does seem that teachers and nurses both…do not conform to that idea that scarcity means it is worth more. if i was a nurse i could imagine myself saying that I am not being paid enough for this crap. i reckon some teachers have the same lot.

One of my associates said to me. Teachers get paid more than nurses, why do they want more money.
Don’t know why it didn’t occur to him that my mother was a teacher, my wife is a teacher, my daughter is a teacher, my sisters in law are both teachers… I simply said, well if there were no teachers, there could not be any nurses.
I asked nurses and they said wee get paid about the same.

reigning in negative gearing.

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

both

Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.

that puts a lot of accountants out of work.

Fuck them.

sarahs mum said:

reigning in negative gearing.

Yes. I know a lot of people rely on it but it is basically ripping everyone else off.

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

reigning in negative gearing.

Yes. I know a lot of people rely on it but it is basically ripping everyone else off.

so many people are supportive of it and yet so many people are homeless..and homelessness grows…including now the working homeless.

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

reigning in negative gearing.

Yes. I know a lot of people rely on it but it is basically ripping everyone else off.

so many people are supportive of it and yet so many people are homeless..and homelessness grows…including now the working homeless.

In some instances, their very parents may be leveraging negative gearing to have an income and not realise that they are part of the problem that leaves their children unable to afford housing.

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

Yes. I know a lot of people rely on it but it is basically ripping everyone else off.

so many people are supportive of it and yet so many people are homeless..and homelessness grows…including now the working homeless.

In some instances, their very parents may be leveraging negative gearing to have an income and not realise that they are part of the problem that leaves their children unable to afford housing.

State parliament with 25 sitting members and 54 houses. quite a few of which are air bnbs.

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

so many people are supportive of it and yet so many people are homeless..and homelessness grows…including now the working homeless.

In some instances, their very parents may be leveraging negative gearing to have an income and not realise that they are part of the problem that leaves their children unable to afford housing.

State parliament with 25 sitting members and 54 houses. quite a few of which are air bnbs.

I’m not sure how doing something that will make property investment less attractive for small investors, and won’t actually generate any more tax in the long term, will help the homeless.

I also don’t know why something that actually would substantially increase tax revenue from all investment income (removing the 50% concession on capital gains) is rarely mentioned.

Also don’t see how making low income people pay 20% tax on all their income is a great idea.

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

In some instances, their very parents may be leveraging negative gearing to have an income and not realise that they are part of the problem that leaves their children unable to afford housing.

State parliament with 25 sitting members and 54 houses. quite a few of which are air bnbs.

I’m not sure how doing something that will make property investment less attractive for small investors, and won’t actually generate any more tax in the long term, will help the homeless.

I also don’t know why something that actually would substantially increase tax revenue from all investment income (removing the 50% concession on capital gains) is rarely mentioned.

Also don’t see how making low income people pay 20% tax on all their income is a great idea.

low income earners pay 19c in the dollar for each $1 over $18,200 up to 45000

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

party_pants said:

Yeah, tax havens around the world should be declared as tax havens. All money transfers bout inwards and outwards should have some special tax applied. Let’s say 10%. Transfer funds to the Cayman Islands you pay 10% tax, transfer it back and pay another 10%. Sure, you pay no tax on your money while it is there but shifting it will cost you. We need enough countries to agree on a common taxation scheme with regards to these tax havens.

both

Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.

You’ve not run a business, have you. My business could not have survived paying 20% on turnover without deducting the costs of running the business – wages, electricity, rent, etc.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

State parliament with 25 sitting members and 54 houses. quite a few of which are air bnbs.

I’m not sure how doing something that will make property investment less attractive for small investors, and won’t actually generate any more tax in the long term, will help the homeless.

I also don’t know why something that actually would substantially increase tax revenue from all investment income (removing the 50% concession on capital gains) is rarely mentioned.

Also don’t see how making low income people pay 20% tax on all their income is a great idea.

low income earners pay 19c in the dollar for each $1 over $18,200 up to 45000

Right, so where do they find the extra $3600+ from?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m not sure how doing something that will make property investment less attractive for small investors, and won’t actually generate any more tax in the long term, will help the homeless.

I also don’t know why something that actually would substantially increase tax revenue from all investment income (removing the 50% concession on capital gains) is rarely mentioned.

Also don’t see how making low income people pay 20% tax on all their income is a great idea.

low income earners pay 19c in the dollar for each $1 over $18,200 up to 45000

Right, so where do they find the extra $3600+ from?

when i was a low income earner i usually had very few deductions so i never got a lot back in rebates.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

low income earners pay 19c in the dollar for each $1 over $18,200 up to 45000

Right, so where do they find the extra $3600+ from?

when i was a low income earner i usually had very few deductions so i never got a lot back in rebates.

How does that make it OK to make the first 18200 taxable at 20%?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Right, so where do they find the extra $3600+ from?

when i was a low income earner i usually had very few deductions so i never got a lot back in rebates.

How does that make it OK to make the first 18200 taxable at 20%?

who said anything about that? that isn’t a rebate it is where tax is implemented from.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

when i was a low income earner i usually had very few deductions so i never got a lot back in rebates.

How does that make it OK to make the first 18200 taxable at 20%?

who said anything about that? that isn’t a rebate it is where tax is implemented from.

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How does that make it OK to make the first 18200 taxable at 20%?

who said anything about that? that isn’t a rebate it is where tax is implemented from.

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

“Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.”

is what roughie said.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

who said anything about that? that isn’t a rebate it is where tax is implemented from.

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

“Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.”

is what roughie said.

Yes, and a flat rate means all income is taxable.

Even if he actually meant a flat rate after the first 18200, see what buffy said.

You’d end up with a lot of very low income earners paying more tax, and a lot of middle to high income earners paying much less tax.

You could increase GST to make up the difference I suppose.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

“Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.”

is what roughie said.

Yes, and a flat rate means all income is taxable.

Even if he actually meant a flat rate after the first 18200, see what buffy said.

You’d end up with a lot of very low income earners paying more tax, and a lot of middle to high income earners paying much less tax.

You could increase GST to make up the difference I suppose.

well then you keep the 18200 as the start point. but i don’t think “flat rate” means what you say.

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

In some instances, their very parents may be leveraging negative gearing to have an income and not realise that they are part of the problem that leaves their children unable to afford housing.

State parliament with 25 sitting members and 54 houses. quite a few of which are air bnbs.

I’m not sure how doing something that will make property investment less attractive for small investors, and won’t actually generate any more tax in the long term, will help the homeless.

I also don’t know why something that actually would substantially increase tax revenue from all investment income (removing the 50% concession on capital gains) is rarely mentioned.

Also don’t see how making low income people pay 20% tax on all their income is a great idea.

They pay 10% on every purchase now as well as having to pay tax on earnings..

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

both

Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.

You’ve not run a business, have you. My business could not have survived paying 20% on turnover without deducting the costs of running the business – wages, electricity, rent, etc.

20% on net earnings.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

State parliament with 25 sitting members and 54 houses. quite a few of which are air bnbs.

I’m not sure how doing something that will make property investment less attractive for small investors, and won’t actually generate any more tax in the long term, will help the homeless.

I also don’t know why something that actually would substantially increase tax revenue from all investment income (removing the 50% concession on capital gains) is rarely mentioned.

Also don’t see how making low income people pay 20% tax on all their income is a great idea.

They pay 10% on every purchase now as well as having to pay tax on earnings..

except cream cakes i believe.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

“Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.”

is what roughie said.

Yes, and a flat rate means all income is taxable.

Even if he actually meant a flat rate after the first 18200, see what buffy said.

You’d end up with a lot of very low income earners paying more tax, and a lot of middle to high income earners paying much less tax.

You could increase GST to make up the difference I suppose.

well then you keep the 18200 as the start point. but i don’t think “flat rate” means what you say.

So a “flat rate” doesn’t mean the rate is flat?

Even it means same rates as now, but no rebates, then what buffy said.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

low income earners pay 19c in the dollar for each $1 over $18,200 up to 45000

Right, so where do they find the extra $3600+ from?

when i was a low income earner i usually had very few deductions so i never got a lot back in rebates.

same.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Right, so where do they find the extra $3600+ from?

when i was a low income earner i usually had very few deductions so i never got a lot back in rebates.

How does that make it OK to make the first 18200 taxable at 20%?

No one suggested that.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How does that make it OK to make the first 18200 taxable at 20%?

who said anything about that? that isn’t a rebate it is where tax is implemented from.

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

No. The suggestion was on taxable income.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.

You’ve not run a business, have you. My business could not have survived paying 20% on turnover without deducting the costs of running the business – wages, electricity, rent, etc.

20% on net earnings.

So you want to decrease the tax rate for everyone except low income people?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes, and a flat rate means all income is taxable.

Even if he actually meant a flat rate after the first 18200, see what buffy said.

You’d end up with a lot of very low income earners paying more tax, and a lot of middle to high income earners paying much less tax.

You could increase GST to make up the difference I suppose.

well then you keep the 18200 as the start point. but i don’t think “flat rate” means what you say.

So a “flat rate” doesn’t mean the rate is flat?

Even it means same rates as now, but no rebates, then what buffy said.

flat rate means flat rate on the income that is taxable. no tax is payable on the 18200 so flat rate doesn’t apply to that. plus business pay tax on profits so wages etc come out of the income before tax. they aren’t rebates.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

who said anything about that? that isn’t a rebate it is where tax is implemented from.

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

“Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.”

is what roughie said.

Ordinary workers don’t have much to take off their income.
It is the top end that don’t pay tax..

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

who said anything about that? that isn’t a rebate it is where tax is implemented from.

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

No. The suggestion was on taxable income.

So what are you wanting to change?

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

You’ve not run a business, have you. My business could not have survived paying 20% on turnover without deducting the costs of running the business – wages, electricity, rent, etc.

20% on net earnings.

So you want to decrease the tax rate for everyone except low income people?

yes but remove the rebates that some use to lessen their taxable income. so maybe they would actually pay more tax.

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

“Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.”

is what roughie said.

Ordinary workers don’t have much to take off their income.
It is the top end that don’t pay tax..

Lots of ordinary workers have high valid deductions.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes, and a flat rate means all income is taxable.

Even if he actually meant a flat rate after the first 18200, see what buffy said.

You’d end up with a lot of very low income earners paying more tax, and a lot of middle to high income earners paying much less tax.

You could increase GST to make up the difference I suppose.

well then you keep the 18200 as the start point. but i don’t think “flat rate” means what you say.

So a “flat rate” doesn’t mean the rate is flat?

Even it means same rates as now, but no rebates, then what buffy said.

It simply means that whatever tax you have to pay, is 20%. Rather than hitting high income people with 30 to 50 cents in the dollar, they pay 20 and none of their tax deductable purchase are a loophole.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

“Everyone should pay a flat rate of 20%, No rebates.”

is what roughie said.

Ordinary workers don’t have much to take off their income.
It is the top end that don’t pay tax..

Lots of ordinary workers have high valid deductions.

not most of the ordinary workers i used to know. work boots was usually about it. you can always raise the 18200 to compensate.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

You’ve not run a business, have you. My business could not have survived paying 20% on turnover without deducting the costs of running the business – wages, electricity, rent, etc.

20% on net earnings.

So you want to decrease the tax rate for everyone except low income people?

No.

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bogsnorkler said:

well then you keep the 18200 as the start point. but i don’t think “flat rate” means what you say.

So a “flat rate” doesn’t mean the rate is flat?

Even it means same rates as now, but no rebates, then what buffy said.

flat rate means flat rate on the income that is taxable. no tax is payable on the 18200 so flat rate doesn’t apply to that. plus business pay tax on profits so wages etc come out of the income before tax. they aren’t rebates.

exactly.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The suggestion was that all income should be taxed at 20%.

No. The suggestion was on taxable income.

So what are you wanting to change?

The ability for high earners to write everything off and thus pay little or no tax. A flat rate is fairer for all and could hardly reduce the revenues collected.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

20% on net earnings.

So you want to decrease the tax rate for everyone except low income people?

No.

Eh?

But that’s exactly what you said in your previous post!

Bogsnorkler said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Ordinary workers don’t have much to take off their income.
It is the top end that don’t pay tax..

Lots of ordinary workers have high valid deductions.

not most of the ordinary workers i used to know. work boots was usually about it. you can always raise the 18200 to compensate.

✅

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So you want to decrease the tax rate for everyone except low income people?

No.

Eh?

But that’s exactly what you said in your previous post!

No. It is how you are perceiving it.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

No.

Eh?

But that’s exactly what you said in your previous post!

No. It is how you are perceiving it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax
Flat tax – Wikipedia

A flat tax is a tax with a single rate on the taxable amount, after accounting for any deductions or exemptions from …

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

No. The suggestion was on taxable income.

So what are you wanting to change?

The ability for high earners to write everything off and thus pay little or no tax. A flat rate is fairer for all and could hardly reduce the revenues collected.

OK, so businesses can deduct their costs, but they can’t write off their costs?

Anyway, I’d better go and earn some tax for albo and mates.