what might it be, some minimum example to start considering it, that perhaps doesn’t properly qualify, call them proto-hypnotics if you like, of more mundane life

not a word I ever use, today being an exception, more I use the term hoodoo

chuck some ideas around here..

start maybe with the idea that minds are self-hypnotizing in ways, have characteristics that way

does the allure of TV qualify

perhaps of consciousness there are effects hypnotic

and of the broader social psychology dimension are there hypnotic potentials in instinctive assumptions about shared concepts, and assumptions about the orientations of mental states

midazolam

transition said:

what might it be, some minimum example to start considering it, that perhaps doesn’t properly qualify, call them proto-hypnotics if you like, of more mundane life

not a word I ever use, today being an exception, more I use the term hoodoo

chuck some ideas around here..

start maybe with the idea that minds are self-hypnotizing in ways, have characteristics that way

does the allure of TV qualify

perhaps of consciousness there are effects hypnotic

and of the broader social psychology dimension are there hypnotic potentials in instinctive assumptions about shared concepts, and assumptions about the orientations of mental states.

That …

… is an excellent question !

I have some personal observations, some personal views on the topic.

But I do not have anything even remotely resembling a consistent answer.

For starters, hypnotism ranges from extremely potent to completely powerless. And the difference isn’t either depth of trance, or susceptibility of the subject, though both of those matter.

Yeah, good question.

What about if someone sings a song.

And it makes you smile
or cry
or dance

does that count as hypnosis?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yeah, good question.

What about if someone sings a song.

And it makes you smile
or cry
or dance

does that count as hypnosis?

certainly music and dance would be in there for consideration, a long history of relation with, back to africa, and elsewhere i’m sure

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yeah, good question.

What about if someone sings a song.

And it makes you smile
or cry
or dance

does that count as hypnosis?

certainly music and dance would be in there for consideration, a long history of relation with, back to africa, and elsewhere i’m sure

anyway i’m thinking a hypnotizing influence – effect – involves a regression and retreat more into instinctive territory, less mediated maybe by higher functions, which in the right contexts may result in greater receptivity to suggestion

the idea i’m playing with is that something like hypnotizing influence are commonplace, perhaps so commonplace as to hardly deserve being referred to as, but at the same time this may result in it not being identified as such (to whatever extent potentially useful)

like the air you breathe and walk through, that invisibly occupies the spaces you inhabit, connects the spaces you inhabit also (courtesy gravity and atmospheric pressure), makes speaking to each other possible, yet I may have to make the air very thin or remove it to render you more immediately aware of what it does, what it makes possible, what it sustains

the idea there^ in that above by way of analogy is that to be deprived of something like a self-hypnotizing ability would be like being deprived the air environment you inhabit

transition said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yeah, good question.

What about if someone sings a song.

And it makes you smile
or cry
or dance

does that count as hypnosis?

certainly music and dance would be in there for consideration, a long history of relation with, back to africa, and elsewhere i’m sure

anyway i’m thinking a hypnotizing influence – effect – involves a regression and retreat more into instinctive territory, less mediated maybe by higher functions, which in the right contexts may result in greater receptivity to suggestion

the idea i’m playing with is that something like hypnotizing influence are commonplace, perhaps so commonplace as to hardly deserve being referred to as, but at the same time this may result in it not being identified as such (to whatever extent potentially useful)

like the air you breathe and walk through, that invisibly occupies the spaces you inhabit, connects the spaces you inhabit also (courtesy gravity and atmospheric pressure), makes speaking to each other possible, yet I may have to make the air very thin or remove it to render you more immediately aware of what it does, what it makes possible, what it sustains

the idea there^ in that above by way of analogy is that to be deprived of something like a self-hypnotizing ability would be like being deprived the air environment you inhabit

I think I follow.

Like suddenly being deprived of your favourite comfy chair.. you hit the ground with a thump thus breaking the spell.

Ian said:

transition said:

transition said:

certainly music and dance would be in there for consideration, a long history of relation with, back to africa, and elsewhere i’m sure

anyway i’m thinking a hypnotizing influence – effect – involves a regression and retreat more into instinctive territory, less mediated maybe by higher functions, which in the right contexts may result in greater receptivity to suggestion

the idea i’m playing with is that something like hypnotizing influence are commonplace, perhaps so commonplace as to hardly deserve being referred to as, but at the same time this may result in it not being identified as such (to whatever extent potentially useful)

like the air you breathe and walk through, that invisibly occupies the spaces you inhabit, connects the spaces you inhabit also (courtesy gravity and atmospheric pressure), makes speaking to each other possible, yet I may have to make the air very thin or remove it to render you more immediately aware of what it does, what it makes possible, what it sustains

the idea there^ in that above by way of analogy is that to be deprived of something like a self-hypnotizing ability would be like being deprived the air environment you inhabit

I think I follow.

Like suddenly being deprived of your favourite comfy chair.. you hit the ground with a thump thus breaking the spell.

Or perhaps the lack of external hypnotising influences goes some way to explaining the effects of solitary confinement.

I’ll take a look into hypnosis levels and how they are measured.

I use self-hypnosis techniques occasionally. For me, being hypnotised is just a relaxed state of quiet concentration in which one is receptive to instructions, with the express purpose of re-ordering the mind to give them priority.

Can take a number of sessions to achieve this effect which then needs regular reinforcement.

Bubblecar said:

I use self-hypnosis techniques occasionally. For me, being hypnotised is just a relaxed state of quiet concentration in which one is receptive to instructions, with the express purpose of re-ordering the mind to give them priority.

Can take a number of sessions to achieve this effect which then needs regular reinforcement.

I’ve used self-hypnosis successfully. During a period of time in which I was in constant pain, I implanted the message “there will be no pain in my life, and that thought will make me happy”. The implanted message held for several years.

I’ve also had sessions with two hypnotherapists. One with weekly sessions over several months.

According to Monash library, there are 8,781 dissertations on the topic of hypnosis, text available online to those with access. 1,964 books. 22,407 newspaper articles.

I’m going to read them all, this may take some time.

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

I use self-hypnosis techniques occasionally. For me, being hypnotised is just a relaxed state of quiet concentration in which one is receptive to instructions, with the express purpose of re-ordering the mind to give them priority.

Can take a number of sessions to achieve this effect which then needs regular reinforcement.

I’ve used self-hypnosis successfully. During a period of time in which I was in constant pain, I implanted the message “there will be no pain in my life, and that thought will make me happy”. The implanted message held for several years.

I’ve also had sessions with two hypnotherapists. One with weekly sessions over several months.

According to Monash library, there are 8,781 dissertations on the topic of hypnosis, text available online to those with access. 1,964 books. 22,407 newspaper articles.

I’m going to read them all, this may take some time.

Can hypnosis be used to read two books simultaneously, one with each eye?

Or maybe swap between the two and use parallel processing in the brain to sort out the results.

Hypnotism doesn’t seem to be something extraterrestrials are aware of as it seems “very effective” for retrieving lost memories

> does the allure of TV qualify

I’m going to go out on a limb here, and state my personal opinions on the minimum that might qualify as hypnotising, before reading the literature.

Watching a film at the cinema – Yes – I have confirmation
Watching TV – Yes – I have confirmation
Working on computer – Probably
Computer game – It has been claimed
Political rally – It has been claimed
Listening to music – It has been claimed but I know of no evidence for it
Watching sports at an arena – Don’t know
Pop concert – Don’t know
Stage show – Don’t know
Teaching/Lecturing – Don’t know
Flashing lights – Don’t know
Beauty – Don’t know
Pornography – Don’t know
Classical concert – Probably not
Reading – Probably not

It’s difficult to be sure without a definitive definition of what hypnosis is.

One definitions that comes to mind is: “Hypnosis is a state in which a post-hypnotic suggestion can be implanted”.

Another definition comes from the “disappearing hypnotist” experiment. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00207147108407173. This experiment is used to differentiate between people who are truly under hypnosis and those who are pretending to be hypnotised. “Hypnosis is a waking mental state that is difficult to leave”.

Bubblecar said:

I use self-hypnosis techniques occasionally. For me, being hypnotised is just a relaxed state of quiet concentration in which one is receptive to instructions, with the express purpose of re-ordering the mind to give them priority.

Can take a number of sessions to achieve this effect which then needs regular reinforcement.

OM

mollwollfumble said:

> does the allure of TV qualify

I’m going to go out on a limb here, and state my personal opinions on the minimum that might qualify as hypnotising, before reading the literature.

Watching a film at the cinema – Yes – I have confirmation
Watching TV – Yes – I have confirmation
Working on computer – Probably
Computer game – It has been claimed
Political rally – It has been claimed
Listening to music – It has been claimed but I know of no evidence for it
Watching sports at an arena – Don’t know
Pop concert – Don’t know
Stage show – Don’t know
Teaching/Lecturing – Don’t know
Flashing lights – Don’t know
Beauty – Don’t know
Pornography – Don’t know
Classical concert – Probably not
Reading – Probably not

It’s difficult to be sure without a definitive definition of what hypnosis is.

One definitions that comes to mind is: “Hypnosis is a state in which a post-hypnotic suggestion can be implanted”.

Another definition comes from the “disappearing hypnotist” experiment. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00207147108407173. This experiment is used to differentiate between people who are truly under hypnosis and those who are pretending to be hypnotised. “Hypnosis is a waking mental state that is difficult to leave”.

Using a Ganzfeld device

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

> does the allure of TV qualify

I’m going to go out on a limb here, and state my personal opinions on the minimum that might qualify as hypnotising, before reading the literature.

Watching a film at the cinema – Yes – I have confirmation
Watching TV – Yes – I have confirmation
Working on computer – Probably
Computer game – It has been claimed
Political rally – It has been claimed
Listening to music – It has been claimed but I know of no evidence for it
Watching sports at an arena – Don’t know
Pop concert – Don’t know
Stage show – Don’t know
Teaching/Lecturing – Don’t know
Flashing lights – Don’t know
Beauty – Don’t know
Pornography – Don’t know
Classical concert – Probably not
Reading – Probably not

It’s difficult to be sure without a definitive definition of what hypnosis is.

One definitions that comes to mind is: “Hypnosis is a state in which a post-hypnotic suggestion can be implanted”.

Another definition comes from the “disappearing hypnotist” experiment. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00207147108407173. This experiment is used to differentiate between people who are truly under hypnosis and those who are pretending to be hypnotised. “Hypnosis is a waking mental state that is difficult to leave”.

Using a Ganzfeld device

Ian said:

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

> does the allure of TV qualify

I’m going to go out on a limb here, and state my personal opinions on the minimum that might qualify as hypnotising, before reading the literature.

Watching a film at the cinema – Yes – I have confirmation
Watching TV – Yes – I have confirmation
Working on computer – Probably
Computer game – It has been claimed
Political rally – It has been claimed
Listening to music – It has been claimed but I know of no evidence for it
Watching sports at an arena – Don’t know
Pop concert – Don’t know
Stage show – Don’t know
Teaching/Lecturing – Don’t know
Flashing lights – Don’t know
Beauty – Don’t know
Pornography – Don’t know
Classical concert – Probably not
Reading – Probably not

It’s difficult to be sure without a definitive definition of what hypnosis is.

One definitions that comes to mind is: “Hypnosis is a state in which a post-hypnotic suggestion can be implanted”.

Another definition comes from the “disappearing hypnotist” experiment. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00207147108407173. This experiment is used to differentiate between people who are truly under hypnosis and those who are pretending to be hypnotised. “Hypnosis is a waking mental state that is difficult to leave”.

Using a Ganzfeld device

That’s them, proposed method of inducing psychic ability.
Could add in sensory deprivation tanks and zombie behaviour inducing drug(s), one in particular used in voodoo practice, that appears to been untrue though as I looked it up

Cymek said:

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Using a Ganzfeld device

That’s them, proposed method of inducing psychic ability.
Could add in sensory deprivation tanks and zombie behaviour inducing drug(s), one in particular used in voodoo practice, that appears to been untrue though as I looked it up

zombie behaviour inducing drug..

Flakka?

Ian said:

Cymek said:

Ian said:

That’s them, proposed method of inducing psychic ability.
Could add in sensory deprivation tanks and zombie behaviour inducing drug(s), one in particular used in voodoo practice, that appears to been untrue though as I looked it up

zombie behaviour inducing drug..

Flakka?

That seems to be a new one, it’s this once from below

Several decades after Hurston’s work, Wade Davis, a Harvard ethnobotanist, presented a pharmacological case for zombies in a 1983 article in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology, and later in two popular books: The Serpent and the Rainbow (1985) and Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie (1988).

Davis traveled to Haiti in 1982 and, as a result of his investigations, claimed that a living person can be turned into a zombie by two special powders being introduced into the blood stream (usually through a wound). The first, French: coup de poudre (“powder strike”), includes tetrodotoxin (TTX), a powerful and frequently fatal neurotoxin found in the flesh of the pufferfish (family Tetraodontidae). The second powder consists of deliriant drugs such as datura. Together these powders were said to induce a deathlike state, in which the will of the victim would be entirely subjected to that of the bokor. Davis also popularized the story of Clairvius Narcisse, who was claimed to have succumbed to this practice. The most ethically questioned and least scientifically explored ingredient of the powders is part of a recently buried child’s brain.

The process described by Davis was an initial state of deathlike suspended animation, followed by re-awakening — typically after being buried — into a psychotic state. The psychosis induced by the drug and psychological trauma was hypothesised by Davis to reinforce culturally learned beliefs and to cause the individual to reconstruct their identity as that of a zombie, since they “knew” that they were dead and had no other role to play in the Haitian society. Societal reinforcement of the belief was hypothesized by Davis to confirm for the zombie individual the zombie state, and such individuals were known to hang around in graveyards, exhibiting attitudes of low affect.

Davis’s claim has been criticized, particularly the suggestion that Haitian witch doctors can keep “zombies” in a state of pharmacologically induced trance for many years. Symptoms of TTX poisoning range from numbness and nausea to paralysis — particularly of the muscles of the diaphragm — unconsciousness, and death, but do not include a stiffened gait or a deathlike trance. According to psychologist Terence Hines, the scientific community dismisses tetrodotoxin as the cause of this state, and Davis’ assessment of the nature of the reports of Haitian zombies is viewed as overly credulous.

Cymek said:

Ian said:

Cymek said:

That’s them, proposed method of inducing psychic ability.
Could add in sensory deprivation tanks and zombie behaviour inducing drug(s), one in particular used in voodoo practice, that appears to been untrue though as I looked it up

zombie behaviour inducing drug..

Flakka?

That seems to be a new one, it’s this once from below

Several decades after Hurston’s work, Wade Davis, a Harvard ethnobotanist, presented a pharmacological case for zombies in a 1983 article in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology, and later in two popular books: The Serpent and the Rainbow (1985) and Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie (1988).

Davis traveled to Haiti in 1982 and, as a result of his investigations, claimed that a living person can be turned into a zombie by two special powders being introduced into the blood stream (usually through a wound). The first, French: coup de poudre (“powder strike”), includes tetrodotoxin (TTX), a powerful and frequently fatal neurotoxin found in the flesh of the pufferfish (family Tetraodontidae). The second powder consists of deliriant drugs such as datura. Together these powders were said to induce a deathlike state, in which the will of the victim would be entirely subjected to that of the bokor. Davis also popularized the story of Clairvius Narcisse, who was claimed to have succumbed to this practice. The most ethically questioned and least scientifically explored ingredient of the powders is part of a recently buried child’s brain.

The process described by Davis was an initial state of deathlike suspended animation, followed by re-awakening — typically after being buried — into a psychotic state. The psychosis induced by the drug and psychological trauma was hypothesised by Davis to reinforce culturally learned beliefs and to cause the individual to reconstruct their identity as that of a zombie, since they “knew” that they were dead and had no other role to play in the Haitian society. Societal reinforcement of the belief was hypothesized by Davis to confirm for the zombie individual the zombie state, and such individuals were known to hang around in graveyards, exhibiting attitudes of low affect.

Davis’s claim has been criticized, particularly the suggestion that Haitian witch doctors can keep “zombies” in a state of pharmacologically induced trance for many years. Symptoms of TTX poisoning range from numbness and nausea to paralysis — particularly of the muscles of the diaphragm — unconsciousness, and death, but do not include a stiffened gait or a deathlike trance. According to psychologist Terence Hines, the scientific community dismisses tetrodotoxin as the cause of this state, and Davis’ assessment of the nature of the reports of Haitian zombies is viewed as overly credulous.

Ah.. needs further study.

Can we have a volunteer? Trans?

mollwollfumble said:

> does the allure of TV qualify

I’m going to go out on a limb here, and state my personal opinions on the minimum that might qualify as hypnotising, before reading the literature.

Watching a film at the cinema – Yes – I have confirmation
Watching TV – Yes – I have confirmation
Working on computer – Probably
Computer game – It has been claimed
Political rally – It has been claimed
Listening to music – It has been claimed but I know of no evidence for it
Watching sports at an arena – Don’t know
Pop concert – Don’t know
Stage show – Don’t know
Teaching/Lecturing – Don’t know
Flashing lights – Don’t know
Beauty – Don’t know
Pornography – Don’t know
Classical concert – Probably not
Reading – Probably not

It’s difficult to be sure without a definitive definition of what hypnosis is.

One definitions that comes to mind is: “Hypnosis is a state in which a post-hypnotic suggestion can be implanted”.

Another definition comes from the “disappearing hypnotist” experiment. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00207147108407173. This experiment is used to differentiate between people who are truly under hypnosis and those who are pretending to be hypnotised. “Hypnosis is a waking mental state that is difficult to leave”.

Hypnogogic State – Don’t know
Driving – Don’t know

Answer to be continued by mollwollfumble.

I went to Monash Uni to read everything they had on hypnosis.

The book “Hypnosis” by L. Chertok (1966) proved to be excellent.

The quick answer to the original question is in the 30 state scale of hypnosis by David and Husband (1931).
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1932-00648-001

A list of the lighter states can be found on https://www.scribd.com/document/398961662/Annex-1-Hypnosis-and-Trance-Forms-Iss7

The lightest 13 states of hypnosis are:

Another hypnosis scale is: