Good afternoon
I am currently doing a certificate III at a local community college.

I chose this place because it’s free under some scheme (that I can’t remember).
Same course at TAFE is $5000+

I’ve had misgivings from the start. The tutor, while highly educated and very nice, is difficult to understand with their accent.
I am the only native English speaker and I’ve wondered how the others are coping. I spoke to a classmate today who told me they had lodged a complaint with the management about how they couldn’t understand the tutor and were told they could not withdraw for this reason and to be patient.

The next thing is that we are not allowed to keep source material (maybe due to copyright, I don’t know) but we’re also not allowed to keep our work books (where we answer questions on the work and from the source material), so I have no reference material to draw upon. It’s also all handwritten, nothing online.

Today we finished first aid. As the teacher was marking the answer books (student by student) they were coaching the students on how to answer. Feels like they’re after 100% teaching success rate rather than students actually knowing the work.

I’ve spoken to someone else (doing a completely unrelated course at a different institution) and they said it’s no longer about learning, and more about numbers and getting people passed.

I’m feeling a bit disillusioned with at all and wondering if I should have gone the TAFE route.

The way it stands, I’m going to pass with flying colours, even if I don’t know the content.

Is it just my college or is this the way of the world now?

I will certainly consider starting again at a better place.

purple said:

Is it just my college or is this the way of the world now?

both, your experience sounds quite dodgy but there’s plenty of dodgy to go around these days

I was informed through art school that the uni owned my art work and my journals but they were always returned. always.

people take the will to learn with them, and take away what they put in, and the providers need accommodate variation of enthusiasm that way, a range

maybe culture is moving on from discrimination that way

at least you won’t get burnt out by imposing expectations

I’d rather have expectations. I want to know if I’m not doing it right.
I’m off to do some research.
Thanks

On a fabulous note, I’m learning a little Arabic (I’m not sure which version), a little Spanish and greetings in Amharic. I had a quick look at Kissi/Kisi but that’s way too hard.

purple said:

I’d rather have expectations. I want to know if I’m not doing it right.

fair, agree

Unfortunately this is the way education is going.

I started some stupid “diploma” cert course and looked on aghast as months of theory you’d cover at TAFE was covered in a few hours – it was complete. I’d was suspicious of this course, you needed it to get into a gov department. When I asked simple questions of the people who had passed this course – they knew nothing.

If I ever become a millionaire I’ll start a university, no student unions, no multicultural, multicolour hair – no parasites such as chancellors.

waves to Aunty P. HUGZ

I’ve been training in the VET (Vocation Education Training) system for 15 years now. ie. Cert I, II, III, IV, Diploma etc. Providers to this system (RTO, or Registered Training Organisations) are licenced to deliver these courses. RTOs include TAFE and independent organisations.

These VET courses are designed and based around, and an emphasis on employment (ie vocation) skills needed for the workplace, and not necessarily “topic knowledge” courses.

What Cert III are you doing?

Cert III is targeted at around year 9 school level and learning ability, in preparation for employment. Not much more than multiple choice, or a sentence or two for each assessment task. Usually your answers can be taken directly from the learning material and no independent research is required.

There are a number of Training Packages (ie Business, Information Technology, Hospitality, Aged Care etc). Industry Skills Councils define the knowledge/skills that you should be able to demonstrate at the end of the course. These are called “Element and Performance Criteria”.

Anyone can design the course material, however it must be validated/matched against each Element and Performance Criteria for each Unit of Competency (topic) and are subject to regular audits by authorities to make sure the material complies and meets requirements.. Mostly, a RTO will purchase this material from an organisation that specialises in the development of such learning material.

Also each RTO (including TAFE) is subject to regular audits of the delivery of each course, and they will select random students and trainers to regularly audit to ensure the course is being delivered properly, and the student outcomes are at the applicable standard.

Next, you talk of 100% correct answers, IIRC. This is correct. VET courses require the student to obtain 100% in their assessments, however, you have, with assistance from your trainer, as many attempts as you like to get it right. Should you take more than 3 – 4 attempts, then a flag will be raised against you learning ability.

Next, your funding. May I ask where the funding for your course came from? Funding is independent of the RTO (including TAFE). TAFE should be able to utilise your source of funding as much as any other RTO.

I’ve delivered training from many Training Packages, from Cert I thru to Diploma, and currently delivering Foundation Skill training (basic literacy for the workplace) at Cert I and Cert II level.

A compliance requirement of all RTOs, is to provide you with induction information at the beginning of your course, for, say, behaviour in the class, and complaints procedures. Did your RTO do this?

Can I ask who your RTO for this course is?

You can look your course up here https://training.gov.au/Home/Tga using your Course Code, look at the Units, and each Element and Performance Criteria.

Hope this info helps.

Any questions? Does this info help?

Thank you for the detailed information Woodie. It makes a lot of sense.
I was most likely expecting too much from it, but the angle you’ve shown puts it into perspective.
I’ll look at those outcomes and satisfy myself that I’m learning well or doing the right thing.

This bit:

“I spoke to a classmate today who told me they had lodged a complaint with the management about how they couldn’t understand the tutor and were told they could not withdraw for this reason and to be patient.”

This is not true. You can withdraw from the course any time you like with no penalty to you. However, as part of RTO compliance they must achieve a certain overall “completion rate” for their VET courses, as the courses are usually gov’t funded. A poor completion rate will see the RTO get deregistered.

“The next thing is that we are not allowed to keep source material (maybe due to copyright, I don’t know) but we’re also not allowed to keep our work books (where we answer questions on the work and from the source material), so I have no reference material to draw upon. It’s also all handwritten, nothing online.”

It is increasingly happening that you may not be allowed to keep, or take home the provided learning material, if it is “hard copy”. They do this due to the costs. They must pay for each copy, if each student is allowed to keep the learning material. Nothing to do with copyright. They reuse the learning material for the next class. However, your assessment workbooks, that you write in, should be yours to keep. Of course, they cannot be reused. A lot of face-2-face courses still use hardcopy. Online versions may be utilised by some RTOs, however, of course, these RTOs will need to provide computers and access in the classroom to utilise the online versions.

purple said:

Thank you for the detailed information Woodie. It makes a lot of sense.
I was most likely expecting too much from it, but the angle you’ve shown puts it into perspective.
I’ll look at those outcomes and satisfy myself that I’m learning well or doing the right thing.

What is the Cert III you are doing, and who is the RTO?

“ However, your assessment workbooks, that you write in, should be yours to keep.”

Yes. I am going to challenge this. I don’t quite know how. I’m not as fiery as I used to be.

I’ll let my classmate know about the withdrawal, thank you.

I will probably carry on with this centre and continue to be a little disillusioned. As has been pointed out, I’ll learn everything I need to know on the job.

I’m doing cert III in individual support (disability). I imagine my clients, being of the human persuasion, won’t fit into any of the tiny little boxes I’ve ticked on the answer sheet.

Woodie said:

purple said:

Thank you for the detailed information Woodie. It makes a lot of sense.
I was most likely expecting too much from it, but the angle you’ve shown puts it into perspective.
I’ll look at those outcomes and satisfy myself that I’m learning well or doing the right thing.

What is the Cert III you are doing, and who is the RTO?

Cert III in individual support (disability). I’m not going to name the organisation. It feels unethical.

purple said:

“ However, your assessment workbooks, that you write in, should be yours to keep.”

Yes. I am going to challenge this. I don’t quite know how. I’m not as fiery as I used to be.

I’ll let my classmate know about the withdrawal, thank you.

I will probably carry on with this centre and continue to be a little disillusioned. As has been pointed out, I’ll learn everything I need to know on the job.

I’m doing cert III in individual support (disability). I imagine my clients, being of the human persuasion, won’t fit into any of the tiny little boxes I’ve ticked on the answer sheet.

I believe that Cert III Individual Support (used to be called “Aged Care”) has workplace placements (you go to an aged care facility) as part of the assessments to finish the course. The aged care facility may then offer you employment after completing your course. It is the responsibility of the RTO to find you these work placements. You, of course, do not get paid as part of these work placements..

Remembers back to the time one course of journals disappearing during assessment. i was so livid. Mine was such a nicely done journal. one of my neatest. Lots of lovely sketches of the various speakers delivering their talk as well as drawings of about said subject. (Twas the Art/Science synergy course.)

What had happened was that the head of department had retired and a new appointment made. Day one she came in and binned everything in the room. Which included a whole lot of undergraduate examination assessments. it took ages just to find out that this was the way it went down.

sarahs mum said:

Remembers back to the time one course of journals disappearing during assessment. i was so livid. Mine was such a nicely done journal. one of my neatest. Lots of lovely sketches of the various speakers delivering their talk as well as drawings of about said subject. (Twas the Art/Science synergy course.)

What had happened was that the head of department had retired and a new appointment made. Day one she came in and binned everything in the room. Which included a whole lot of undergraduate examination assessments. it took ages just to find out that this was the way it went down.

One student who was a consistent HD type got her first credit.
she wondered if they didn’t understand her final art work or thought it trite. (she gridded out the floor of the gallery like a skinner box) but she decided to ask for remark. The response was ‘What did you expect when you hadn’t handed in your final essay?’ yep. Her essay was on the desk and it had been turfed out too. Luckily it had been stamped at the office and so she was allowed to resubmit and she got her mark changed to an HD.

“The tutor, while highly educated and very nice, is difficult to understand with their accent.”

accent aside, there is a lot to be said for the skills of teaching. Knowledge is one thing, passing on that knowledge is a completely different set of skills.. being nice is great but it means nothing if you can’t teach someone something…

my mentor said that it’s called a lecture theatre, because you provide the lecture, but at some point there is also the theatre… the performance, that is just as important as the content… all the most brilliant content in the world won’t matter if your audience is falling asleep.

teaching is a skill.. I have now taught at every level of education, the delivery is one thing but then it also needs to change across ages, education and cultures… it’s not as easy as people think.

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Remembers back to the time one course of journals disappearing during assessment. i was so livid. Mine was such a nicely done journal. one of my neatest. Lots of lovely sketches of the various speakers delivering their talk as well as drawings of about said subject. (Twas the Art/Science synergy course.)

What had happened was that the head of department had retired and a new appointment made. Day one she came in and binned everything in the room. Which included a whole lot of undergraduate examination assessments. it took ages just to find out that this was the way it went down.

One student who was a consistent HD type got her first credit.
she wondered if they didn’t understand her final art work or thought it trite. (she gridded out the floor of the gallery like a skinner box) but she decided to ask for remark. The response was ‘What did you expect when you hadn’t handed in your final essay?’ yep. Her essay was on the desk and it had been turfed out too. Luckily it had been stamped at the office and so she was allowed to resubmit and she got her mark changed to an HD.

At my art school if you hadn’t collected all your work before the semester break it was thrown out by the cleaners. I lost some very nice drawings.

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Remembers back to the time one course of journals disappearing during assessment. i was so livid. Mine was such a nicely done journal. one of my neatest. Lots of lovely sketches of the various speakers delivering their talk as well as drawings of about said subject. (Twas the Art/Science synergy course.)

What had happened was that the head of department had retired and a new appointment made. Day one she came in and binned everything in the room. Which included a whole lot of undergraduate examination assessments. it took ages just to find out that this was the way it went down.

One student who was a consistent HD type got her first credit.
she wondered if they didn’t understand her final art work or thought it trite. (she gridded out the floor of the gallery like a skinner box) but she decided to ask for remark. The response was ‘What did you expect when you hadn’t handed in your final essay?’ yep. Her essay was on the desk and it had been turfed out too. Luckily it had been stamped at the office and so she was allowed to resubmit and she got her mark changed to an HD.

Senior sprog got a H1 the other day and was quite chuffed and came and told me. I sort of raised my eyebrows and mumbled something along the lines of “it’s sort of what I expect, you’ve always been an extremely good writer, you got into Melbourne’s best school…blah, blah”

I got a roll of the eyes in return and a “it’s bloody Melbourne uni, dad, everyone is a good writer”.

Still think she should get a H1 on everything :)

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Remembers back to the time one course of journals disappearing during assessment. i was so livid. Mine was such a nicely done journal. one of my neatest. Lots of lovely sketches of the various speakers delivering their talk as well as drawings of about said subject. (Twas the Art/Science synergy course.)

What had happened was that the head of department had retired and a new appointment made. Day one she came in and binned everything in the room. Which included a whole lot of undergraduate examination assessments. it took ages just to find out that this was the way it went down.

One student who was a consistent HD type got her first credit.
she wondered if they didn’t understand her final art work or thought it trite. (she gridded out the floor of the gallery like a skinner box) but she decided to ask for remark. The response was ‘What did you expect when you hadn’t handed in your final essay?’ yep. Her essay was on the desk and it had been turfed out too. Luckily it had been stamped at the office and so she was allowed to resubmit and she got her mark changed to an HD.

Senior sprog got a H1 the other day and was quite chuffed and came and told me. I sort of raised my eyebrows and mumbled something along the lines of “it’s sort of what I expect, you’ve always been an extremely good writer, you got into Melbourne’s best school…blah, blah”

I got a roll of the eyes in return and a “it’s bloody Melbourne uni, dad, everyone is a good writer”.

Still think she should get a H1 on everything :)

:). welcome to uni, where everyone is smart except for the three people in your group project.

Arts said:

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

One student who was a consistent HD type got her first credit.
she wondered if they didn’t understand her final art work or thought it trite. (she gridded out the floor of the gallery like a skinner box) but she decided to ask for remark. The response was ‘What did you expect when you hadn’t handed in your final essay?’ yep. Her essay was on the desk and it had been turfed out too. Luckily it had been stamped at the office and so she was allowed to resubmit and she got her mark changed to an HD.

Senior sprog got a H1 the other day and was quite chuffed and came and told me. I sort of raised my eyebrows and mumbled something along the lines of “it’s sort of what I expect, you’ve always been an extremely good writer, you got into Melbourne’s best school…blah, blah”

I got a roll of the eyes in return and a “it’s bloody Melbourne uni, dad, everyone is a good writer”.

Still think she should get a H1 on everything :)

:). welcome to uni, where everyone is smart except for the three people in your group project.

You’re now sounding like SWMBO. She just finished off a grad diploma that the public service put her through, and she whinged about the course and her fellow students for the whole course :)

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Remembers back to the time one course of journals disappearing during assessment. i was so livid. Mine was such a nicely done journal. one of my neatest. Lots of lovely sketches of the various speakers delivering their talk as well as drawings of about said subject. (Twas the Art/Science synergy course.)

What had happened was that the head of department had retired and a new appointment made. Day one she came in and binned everything in the room. Which included a whole lot of undergraduate examination assessments. it took ages just to find out that this was the way it went down.

One student who was a consistent HD type got her first credit.
she wondered if they didn’t understand her final art work or thought it trite. (she gridded out the floor of the gallery like a skinner box) but she decided to ask for remark. The response was ‘What did you expect when you hadn’t handed in your final essay?’ yep. Her essay was on the desk and it had been turfed out too. Luckily it had been stamped at the office and so she was allowed to resubmit and she got her mark changed to an HD.

Senior sprog got a H1 the other day and was quite chuffed and came and told me. I sort of raised my eyebrows and mumbled something along the lines of “it’s sort of what I expect, you’ve always been an extremely good writer, you got into Melbourne’s best school…blah, blah”

I got a roll of the eyes in return and a “it’s bloody Melbourne uni, dad, everyone is a good writer”.

Still think she should get a H1 on everything :)

do you call her a girly swot too?

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

One student who was a consistent HD type got her first credit.
she wondered if they didn’t understand her final art work or thought it trite. (she gridded out the floor of the gallery like a skinner box) but she decided to ask for remark. The response was ‘What did you expect when you hadn’t handed in your final essay?’ yep. Her essay was on the desk and it had been turfed out too. Luckily it had been stamped at the office and so she was allowed to resubmit and she got her mark changed to an HD.

Senior sprog got a H1 the other day and was quite chuffed and came and told me. I sort of raised my eyebrows and mumbled something along the lines of “it’s sort of what I expect, you’ve always been an extremely good writer, you got into Melbourne’s best school…blah, blah”

I got a roll of the eyes in return and a “it’s bloody Melbourne uni, dad, everyone is a good writer”.

Still think she should get a H1 on everything :)

do you call her a girly swot too?

That would be unbecoming :)

Arts said:

“The tutor, while highly educated and very nice, is difficult to understand with their accent.”

accent aside, there is a lot to be said for the skills of teaching. Knowledge is one thing, passing on that knowledge is a completely different set of skills.. being nice is great but it means nothing if you can’t teach someone something…

my mentor said that it’s called a lecture theatre, because you provide the lecture, but at some point there is also the theatre… the performance, that is just as important as the content… all the most brilliant content in the world won’t matter if your audience is falling asleep.

teaching is a skill.. I have now taught at every level of education, the delivery is one thing but then it also needs to change across ages, education and cultures… it’s not as easy as people think.

I found out it’s their first time teaching.

purple said:

Arts said:

“The tutor, while highly educated and very nice, is difficult to understand with their accent.”

accent aside, there is a lot to be said for the skills of teaching. Knowledge is one thing, passing on that knowledge is a completely different set of skills.. being nice is great but it means nothing if you can’t teach someone something…

my mentor said that it’s called a lecture theatre, because you provide the lecture, but at some point there is also the theatre… the performance, that is just as important as the content… all the most brilliant content in the world won’t matter if your audience is falling asleep.

teaching is a skill.. I have now taught at every level of education, the delivery is one thing but then it also needs to change across ages, education and cultures… it’s not as easy as people think.

I found out it’s their first time teaching.

maybe it’s like those psychology experiments where you think they’re studying someone’s response to you but they’re actually actors and they’re studying your response to them